How To Repair the Damage After An Argument | Dr. Becky Kennedy

这里是《快乐10%》播客。

This is the 10% happier podcast.

我是丹·哈里斯。

I'm Dan Harris.

大家周五快乐。

Happy Friday, everybody.

今天我们要聊一个真正改变游戏规则的概念。

Today we're gonna talk about a truly game changing concept.

我发现这个概念特别有用。

I've found this to be incredibly helpful.

它让我变得不那么爱憎分明，也不那么爱评判别人。

It helps me to be way less hateful and judgmental.

这两点是我根深蒂固的倾向。

Two deeply wired tendencies on my part.

简单回顾一下，我们最近在周五做的事情，就是精选我们庞大档案库里的精华内容。

Just to back up, basically, we're doing on Fridays these days is we're highlighting some of the golden nuggets from our vast archive.

我们这个月用的方法是，去问我们的员工，比如，这节目这么多年了，有什么让你印象深刻的？

So the system we've been using this month is that we go to our staff members and ask them, like, what's still with you from the many, many years of this show?

这周我们找了团队里最新的成员，泰勒·布兰达雷斯，她是我们的运营总监，她提到了一次采访中的时刻，那对我来说也是个很重要的时刻，就是我和贝基·肯尼迪医生的那次采访，她在育儿建议领域是个大明星，但她对非父母也有很多话要说。

And this week, we went to the newest member of our team, Taylor Brandarez, who's our director of operations, and she mentioned this moment that was also a huge moment for me in an interview that I did with doctor Becky Kennedy, who's a rock star in the parenting advice world, but she also has plenty to say for non parents.

她有个概念叫MGI，我就不剧透了。

And she has this concept called MGI, which I will not spoil for you.

我会让泰勒和贝基来解释，但流程是这样的。

I will let Taylor and then Becky explain it to you, but here's how this is gonna work.

短暂休息后，我们会回来听泰勒的分享。

After a quick break, we'll come back and we'll hear from Taylor.

她会描述为什么这个时刻对她影响这么大，然后我们会播放贝基医生的那段采访。

She'll describe why this moment was so impactful, and then we'll play the moment from doctor Becky.

在那之前，提醒一下，我们为周一和周三的节目提供定制引导冥想，而且我们现在决定无限期提供，这挺酷的。

Before we do that, just a quick reminder that we're offering bespoke guided meditations for all of our Monday, Wednesday episodes, and we have now decided to offer those indefinitely, so that's cool.

这个月，伟大的冥想老师凯拉·朱莱林戈为我们的周一和周三节目都精心制作了冥想内容。

For this entire month, the great meditation teacher, Kyra Julelingo, has crafted meditations to go with all of our Monday, Wednesday episodes.

这些内容只对danharris.com上的付费订阅用户开放。

These are available only to paid subscribers over at danharris.com.

今天是周五的节目，所以没有配套的冥想。

This is a Friday episode, so there's no meditation to go with this one.

另外我还想提一下，十月底我会去Omega Institute参加另一场冥想派对。

Another thing I wanna plug is that I'll be up at the Omega Institute for another installment of Meditation Party in late October.

这是一场线下活动，我会和我的朋友Sebene Selassie和Jeff Warren一起。

This is an in person extravaganza with my friends Sebene Selassie and Jeff Warren.

而且这次Ofosu Jones-Quartey也会来。

Also, this time, Ofosu Jones-Quartey is coming.

就像我说的，10月24号到26号在Omega，就在纽约市北边。

Like I said, October twenty fourth through twenty sixth at Omega, which is North of New York City.

你可以在eomega.org上报名，我也会在节目笔记里放个链接。

You can sign up at eomega.org, and I'll put a link in the show notes.

好的。

Okay.

先插播一段广告，然后我们会听到泰勒的发言，接着是医生的。

Quick break, then we'll hear from Taylor, then Doctor.

嘿。

Hey.

我是丹。

It's Dan.

我想告诉你一件我特别自豪的事，就是我们在我的新应用上建立的社区，这个应用叫“丹·哈里斯十分之一”。

I just wanna tell you about something I'm really proud of, the new community we are building over on my new app, which is called Ten Percent with Dan Harris.

有一件事我深信不疑。

Here's something I believe with no reservation.

照顾好自己的内心并不是自私。

Taking care of your own mind is not selfish.

实际上，如果你想为这个世界出力，想应对当下地球上的各种紧急情况，这至关重要。

It's actually essential if you wanna show up for the world, if you wanna deal with the various emergencies on the planet right now.

事实上，从地缘政治的角度来看，你也应该把自己收拾利索。

There is, in fact, a geopolitical case for you to get your shit together.

换句话说，照顾好你自己的心态就是一种好公民的表现。

In other words, taking care of your own mind is good citizenship.

我觉得这就像是一个向上的螺旋。

I think about it like an upward spiral.

你训练你的心智。

You train your mind.

这会让你更快乐，反应也没那么激烈。

That makes you happier and less reactive.

因为你更稳定了，你和周围人的关系也会变得更好。

Because you're steadier, that improves your relationships with everybody around you.

而且因为人际关系对人类的幸福至关重要，你会变得更快乐，然后你的人际关系会变得更好，你就这样一路向上。

And because relationships are crucial to human happiness, you get even happier, then your relationships get even better, and up you go.

我们在这个新应用上的使命，就是通过不断增长的冥想库来引导你完成这个过程，这些冥想来自世界级的老师，比如Sebene Selassie和Joseph Goldstein，还有很多很多。

Our mission over at this new app is to guide you through this process with a growing library of meditations from world class teachers like Sebene Selassie and Joseph Goldstein and on and on.

另外，还可以免费访问我们完整的播客档案，以及独家直播活动，在那里我们会引导冥想并回答你的问题。

Also, add free access to our full podcast archive, exclusive livestream events where we guide meditations and take your questions.

我们每周都有这些活动，还有更多。

We do those every week and much more.

请访问danharris.com。

Head on over to danharris.com.

你可以免费试用两周。

You can try it for two weeks free.

如果你付不起订阅费，我们也会免费给你，不会问任何问题。

And if you cannot afford a subscription, we'll give you one no questions asked.

嗨。

Hi.

我是泰勒·布兰德雷斯，运营总监，我推荐的是丹与贝基·肯尼迪博士的对话。

I'm Taylor Brandarez, director of operations, and my staff pick is Dan's conversation with doctor Becky Kennedy.

作为两个小男孩的妈妈，一个五岁一个两岁，而且我也想在生活的各个方面做得更好，这一集真的深深触动了我。

As a mom of two little boys, a five and a two year old, and someone who's trying to just show up better in all areas of life, this episode really landed for me in a personal way.

贝基博士关于修复之路的理念真的改变了我的育儿方式，而且这不是一次性的改变。

Doctor Becky's idea of the path of repair has genuinely changed how I parent, and that's not in a one time moment kind of way.

这是我每天都在学习和重新学习的东西。

It's something that I find myself learning and relearning every single day.

我记得很清楚有一次，我的大儿子又在推他的小弟弟，我一下子就火了。

I remember one moment clearly when my oldest was pushing his little brother around again, and I just snapped.

我吼了他，话一出口我就后悔了。

I yelled, and the second it came out of my mouth, I regretted it.

我立刻意识到了。

It hit me immediately.

我发现自己常常因为他是老大就对他要求更多，这对他不公平。

And I realized that I often expect more from him just because he's the oldest, and that's not fair.

他还那么小。

He is still so little.

所以我没有当作没发生就继续，而是过了一会儿又回去找他，我说，嘿。

So instead of brushing it off and just moving on, I circled back a little later, and I said, hey.

我刚才太生气了。

I got too mad.

我不喜欢我那样处理事情。

I didn't like how I handled that.

那不是什么大情绪爆发的时刻，但我能感觉到他态度软化了。

It wasn't some big emotional moment, but I could feel him soften.

这并不是说我没有告诉他他做错了。

That's not to say that I didn't tell him what he did was wrong.

我确实说了。

I absolutely did.

但我也知道我不喜欢自己说话的方式，这一点让我一直记在心里。

But I also knew that I didn't like the way that I had said it, and that's what stuck with me.

这是我从贝基医生那里学到的。

That's what I took from doctor Becky.

修复关系不是要做到完美。

That repair is not about being perfect.

而是愿意重新连接。

It's about being willing to reconnect.

我也开始用她的那个“最善意的解读”的想法，特别是对我丈夫。

I've also started using her idea of most generous interpretation, especially with my husband.

当事情一团糟，他没有立刻插手时，我会试着停下来想，也许他不是在无视眼前的情况。

When things are chaotic and he doesn't immediately jump in, I try to pause and think, maybe he's not ignoring what's going on.

也许他只是需要缓一缓。

Maybe he just needs a beat.

也许他脑子里在想工作上的事，或者在调整状态，然后才会加入进来。

Maybe he's in his own head thinking about something that happened at work or trying to shift gears before he jumps in.

这个小小的思维转变，不管是在育儿还是伴侣关系中，都帮我去回应而不是直接反应。

And that tiny mental shift, whether it be in parenting or in partnership, has helped me respond instead of react.

哪怕只是几秒钟的停顿，也带来了实实在在的改变。

And that space even just for a few seconds has made a real difference.

这不仅仅是对孩子或伴侣，而是作为一个人，在日常的人际交往中多一点耐心和关怀。

And it's not just as a parent or a partner, but as a person just navigating everyday relationships with a little bit more patience and care.

谢谢你，泰勒，也再次欢迎你加入团队。

Thank you, Taylor, and welcome again to the team.

我很高兴你还记得那个时刻，因为那个时刻对我来说真的很有感触。

And I love that you remember that moment because that moment really landed for me.

那么现在让我们来听听贝基医生访谈中的关键部分，她谈到了修复的力量。

So now let's hear the key part of the interview with doctor Becky where she talks about the power of repair.

顺便说一句，为了给贝基医生打个广告，这些内容很多都来自她做的一个很棒的TED演讲，我会在节目说明里放上链接。

And I should say, just to plug doctor Becky, that much of this material comes from a great TED talk she gave, and I'll put a link to that in the show notes.

我们先从那个TED演讲开始吧。

Let's start with the TED talk.

你演讲一开始描述了和儿子的一次争吵。

You start the talk by describing a fight with your son.

你能讲讲那个故事吗？

Can you tell that story?

其实，我当时正在给家人做晚饭。

So, essentially, I had been cooking dinner for my family.

那是个星期天晚上，而星期天晚上对我来说，真的很难熬。

It was a Sunday night, and Sunday nights to me, it's just they're just so hard.

就像，周末有一大堆事情没做完。

Like, there's a million things that were undone from the weekend.

我知道这周有好多事情要做，所以我经常有点紧张。

There's a million things I know I need to do for the week, and so I'm often kind of on edge.

所以那天晚上我其实做了晚饭，这通常不是我做的事，但我做了。

So I actually cooked dinner that night, which is not something I usually do, but I did.

然后我儿子走进厨房，看了一眼桌子，就说，哦，又是鸡肉。

And then my son kind of walked into the kitchen, and he just looked at the table, and he's like, oh, chicken again.

然后他小声嘟囔，说难吃之类的话。

And then he kind of, like, mumbled, like, disgusting like that.

你知道，那一刻我有很多事情希望自己能做，但我没有。

And I you know, there's so many things I wish I did in that moment, but I didn't.

我就爆发了。

And I just exploded.

我觉得那一刻我的身体完全充满了沮丧。

And I think my body was just completely full of frustration at that moment.

当时真的是一点多余的耐心都没有了，再也承受不了任何额外的烦躁。

There was not, like, one ounce left to metabolize any additional frustration.

所以一下子全爆发了，我就冲他大喊。

And so it all came out, and I just yelled at him.

我说，你到底怎么回事？

I was like, what is wrong with you?

我说你太被宠坏了，你知道吗，然后就这样以一种很吓人的、很冲动的状态继续骂下去。

You're so spoiled, you know, and just kind of went on in this scary reactive way.

然后他就说，我恨你。

He then proceeded to say, I hate you.

然后他就跑出了厨房。

And then he ran out of the kitchen.

他跑回自己的房间。

He ran to his room.

他砰的一声把门关上。

He slammed the door.

他一个人在那儿。

He's alone there.

我一个人在厨房。

I'm alone in the kitchen.

然后，你知道，那一晚就这么开始了。

And, you know, that's how the night began.

听起来我觉得这育儿方式挺好的。

Sounds like good parenting to me.

有什么问题吗？

What's the problem?

嗯，你知道，我觉得这就是这次TED演讲的重点。

Well, you know, and I think this is the focus of the TED talk.

然后，那个时刻就发生了。

And and that that moment happened.

而且我真的觉得每个人，如果你是父母，你都会说，对。

And and I actually think every single person like, if you're a parent, you're like, yeah.

那个时刻就发生在我家里。

That moment happened in my house.

如果你不是父母，你会想，哦，我也说过不想说的话。

If you're not a parent, you're like, oh, I've said things I didn't wanna say.

我也用过自己都不引以为豪的语气。

I've used a tone that I am not proud of.

那就是那个时刻。

That is the moment.

然后通常我们在那个时刻之后做的事情，我也这么做了，就是陷入恶性循环。

And then often what we do after the moment, and I did this, we spiral.

我们通常会以某种形式的责备陷入循环，而且实际上我们常常摇摆不定，对吧，责备我的孩子有什么问题？

We usually spiral in one form of blame, and actually often we seesaw, right, the blame of what's wrong with my kid?

我的孩子太讨厌了。

My kid is so obnoxious.

我在做饭。

I'm cooking food.

我的孩子到底怎么了？

What's wrong with my kid?

或者我的老板到底怎么了？

Or what's wrong with my boss?

或者我的伴侣到底怎么了？

Or what's wrong with my partner?

就是，对方到底有什么问题？

Like, what's wrong with the other person?

然后我们就在这之间摇摆，比如，我自己有什么问题？

And then we seesaw between that and, like, what's wrong with me?

我为什么要那样做？

Why did I do that?

我把那个人给毁了一辈子。

I messed up this other person forever.

我真是个混蛋。

I'm such an asshole.

而且讽刺的是，我觉得这个演讲真正想说的是，在某种程度上，对另一个人造成更大伤害的，其实不是事件本身，也不是吼叫的那一刻。

And irony, and I think the thing that the talk really speaks to is what does, in some ways, more damage to another person isn't actually the event or the moment of yelling.

真正伤人的是那种恶性循环。

It's actually what happens in that spiral.

因为当我们在责怪别人或责怪自己的漩涡里打转时，我们实际上没能去重新联系和修复关系。

Because as we spiral in blaming someone else and or blaming ourselves, we actually fail to go reconnect and to repair the relationship.

而修复，正如这场TED演讲的主题所说，其实是我们拥有的最强大的育儿策略。

And repair, as is the subject of the TED talk, is actually the most powerful parenting strategy we have.

所以我们错过了这个非常重要的、关乎整体关系的关键时刻。

So we miss out on this really, really important overall relationship moment.

所以，在育儿或任何其他关系中，犯错是难免的。

So mess ups are gonna happen in parenting or any other relationship.

关键在于你之后怎么做，修复才是关键。

It's what you do subsequently, the repair that is the key.

而且我觉得，这里有一个更大的图景。

And I think there's, like, a really big picture here.

我在TED演讲里没怎么提这个，但我关于修复的很多想法其实都来自创伤文献和对创伤的理解。

I didn't talk about this too much in the TED talk, but a lot of my thoughts around repair really come from trauma literature and understanding trauma.

我们知道创伤不是发生的那件事本身。

And we know trauma is not the event that happened.

而是事件在你身体里被处理的方式。

It's the way an event gets processed in your body.

我觉得还有另一种说法，我很喜欢加博尔·马泰的说法。

I think another way of saying that, I love Gaboor Mattei's way.

他说，创伤不是发生在你身上的事。

He says, trauma isn't the thing that happens to you.

而是你内心发生的变化。

It's kind of what happens inside of you.

所以无论是父母还是非父母，我们都容易只盯着事件本身，盯着那个时刻。

And so parents, non parents, we all can really focus on the event, on the moment.

但在每段关系里，真正重要的是那个时刻在我们身体里是被存储为孤独、无人提及、被人否认，还是被存储为连接、安全、爱、解释和理解，这其实决定了那个事件在我们身体里被记住的方式。

But in every relationship, it's actually more about whether that moment gets stored in our body next to aloneness and nobody talking about it, or denial from other people, or whether that moment gets stored next to connection, and safety, and love, and explanation, and understanding that actually determines the way the event gets remembered in our body.

所以，是的，这些时刻每个人都会经历。

So, yes, those moments happen for everyone.

每个人都会吼叫。

Everyone yells.

每个人都会突然发火。

Everyone snaps.

每个人都会说出不完美的话。

Everyone says the thing that's imperfect.

我们都会这样。

We all do.

我想真正希望大家转变视角的是，与其只关注事件带来的伤害，不如真正意识到之后修复所能带来的治愈力量。

And I think what I really want people, you know, to shift in terms of their perspective is rather than focusing on the kind of harmful impact of the event, to really really be aware of the healing powerful opportunity of the repair that can happen next.

这是一个有趣的重新定义，因为正如你所说，我们大多数人会在情绪失控时责怪别人，也把自己骂得狗血淋头。

This is an interesting reframe because most of us, as you said, use moments of dysregulation to blame other people and beat the shit out of ourselves.

但，实际上，我从你这里听到的重新定义是，哦，这些反正都会发生。

But, actually, the reframe that I'm hearing from you is, oh, these are gonna happen anyway.

那不如就把它们当成一个机会来看待。

You might as well view them as an opportunity.

完全同意。

Completely.

而且这些应对机制是我们继承来的。

And we've inherited those coping mechanisms.

比如，倾向于责怪自己或者责怪别人。

Like, tendency to blame ourselves or blame someone else.

这可不是我们天生就有的。

I mean, that's not something we were born with.

你看，没有哪个婴儿会在婴儿床里凌晨两点把父母吵醒，然后想，唉，我是不是太过分了？

Like, no baby is, like, in their crib waking up their parents at 2AM and being, ugh, like, is that too much?

我真的需要那顿奶吗？

Like, did I really need that feeding?

或者，我真是个自私的宝宝。

Or I'm such a selfish baby.

我们并不是天生就有那种责备的倾向。

We're not born with that tendency to blame.

而且，实际上，我们都有那种倾向，至于为什么我们可以以后再聊，但责备的心态是一种非常僵化的心态。

And, actually, that tendency we all have, which we can talk more about why, but the blaming mentality is a very stuck mentality.

没有任何前进的可能。

There's no movement possible.

我要么是缩回自己的壳里，要么是把所有精力都放在别人有多糟糕上。

I'm kind of burrowing back into myself, or I'm focusing all my energy on how awful someone else was.

没有人能从那种状态中做出任何改变。

Nobody can make any changes from that place.

所以，而且我知道你也是个务实的人，丹。

So it's also and I know you're a pragmatist too, Dan.

就是说，这真的是一种非常低效的心态，因为在我们大喊大叫之后，大多数人都不想再那样做了。

Like, it's just it's a very ineffective mindset because after we yell, most of us, like, don't wanna do that again.

所以关键是要找到一种心态和几个实际的下一步，能真正帮助我们改变，而不是让我们困在那个糟糕的时刻里。

And so it's about finding a mindset and a couple of next steps that actually can help us change rather than keep us stuck in that awful moment.

你提到了修复的三个步骤。

So you talk about the three steps for repair.

我们来逐一看看。

Let's go through them.

第一步其实是内在的，不是外在的。

Step number one is actually internal, not external.

说到修复的三个步骤，第一步，我真心觉得，就是搞砸。

When I think of three steps to repair, the first step, okay, and I really mean this, is to mess up.

我觉得这一点非常重要。

And that I think is so important.

作为一个正在努力摆脱完美主义的人，这对我帮助特别大。

It's helped me personally as a recovering perfectionist so much.

我记得在研究生院的时候，教授随口说了一句话，我当时就想，其他话我都没听进去。

Because I remember being in grad school and hearing this line that my professor said, like, in passing, and I would remember being like, I'm not gonna hear anything else you said.

你随口说的那句话太深刻了。

That thing you said in passing was just so profound.

她当时说的是，修复是安全依恋的一个标志。

And what she was talking about was how repair is a marker of secure attachment.

小时候经历过更多修复的孩子，长大后更可能拥有安全依恋。

Kids who had more repairs growing up were more likely to have a secure attachment.

安全依恋基本上预示着我们希望孩子拥有的一切美好特质。

Secure attachment basically predicts everything good that we want for our kids.

因为我们一直在聊依恋，我就想，等等。

And since we kept talking about attachment, I was like, wait.

等一下。

Wait a second.

等一下。

Wait a second.

好像没有其他人觉得这很深刻。

No one else is, like, finding this profound.

如果修复是安全依恋的标志，那就意味着每个人都会经历破裂。

If repair is a marker of secure attachment, that means everyone ruptures.

为什么没人强调这一点呢？

Like, why is no one highlighting this?

而且，如果修复能帮助孩子建立安全依恋，那你不破裂就没法修复。

Because, also, if repair helps kids get into secure attachment, then you can't repair if you didn't rupture.

这几乎就是给了你犯错的完全许可。

It's almost like full permission to mess up.

就好像你必须先破裂，才能擅长修复。

It's like you have to rupture to get good at repair.

所以当我想到修复的三个步骤，第一步是破裂，也就是大喊大叫、说出你不想说的话、搞砸了，随便你怎么说，那其实就是第一步。

And so when I think about the three steps of repair and saying step one is rupture, which means yelling, saying the thing you don't wanna say, messing up, whatever you wanna say, that actually is step one.

而这之所以对我帮助这么大，是因为我在厨房里对我儿子大喊之后就这么做了。

And the reason that helps me so much is because and I did this in the kitchen after I yelled at my son.

我当时想，好吧。

I was like, okay.

与其陷入“我是个糟糕的父母，我把孩子毁了一辈子”的深渊，我其实想象了这条路。

Instead of going to the abyss of I'm an awful parent, I messed up my kid forever, I actually picture this road.

然后我就想，好吧。

And I'm like, okay.

其实我已经走在修复的路上了，而且我知道自己在路上，因为我刚刚才爆发过。

I'm actually on the road to repair, and I know I'm on the road because I just ruptured.

如果第三步是和孩子们修复关系，那第一步就是爆发。

If step three is repairing with my kids, step one is rupturing.

这一步我可做得太到位了。

Like, I crushed that step.

我已经完成三分之一了。

I'm a third of the way there.

这已经很接近了。

Like, that's that's pretty close.

看看我的势头。

Look at my momentum.

我真的会这样对自己说。

And I really do say that to myself.

哇，真的。

Like, wow.

看看我。

Look at me.

我好像越来越接近了。

I'm, like, getting closer.

好的。

Okay.

所以这是第一步。

So that's step one.

如果你正在考虑修复，那你已经完成了第一步。

If And you're thinking about repair, you've already done step one.

这挺有说服力的，你知道的。

It's pretty, you know, pretty compelling.

第二步是和自己修复关系。

Step two is repairing with ourselves.

而这一步，我觉得太多人从来没被教过，也正是为什么很多人会说，是的。

And this is the step that I think too many people were never taught, and it's really the singular reason why so many people would say, yeah.

我不擅长道歉。

I'm not good at apologizing.

这不是因为你自私，也不是因为你没有同理心。

And it's not because you're selfish, and it's not because you don't have empathy.

实际上，很可能是因为你对自己充满了轻蔑、羞耻和责备，以至于你根本无法面对自己做过的那件事。

It's actually probably because you hold yourself with such derision and shame and blame that you literally can't face the reality of this thing you did.

所以，如果我们不能接受这件不太好的事确实是我们做的，我们就永远无法和别人修复关系。

So we can never repair with someone else if we can't accept that this not so good thing actually is something that we did.

而唯一能接受自己做了件坏事的方式，其实是区分开：我仍然是个好人，只是做了一件坏事。

And the only way we can accept that we did a kind of bad thing is actually by differentiating how I'm still a good person who did a bad thing.

如果我不能以那种方式修复，那并不意味着要原谅自己，别把那些混为一谈。

And if I can't repair in that way, which does not mean excusing it, mix up all those things.

明白吗？

Okay?

如果我不能对自己说，嘿，贝基，我是个好人，只是做了件坏事。

If I can't separate for myself, hey, Becky, I'm a good person who did a bad thing.

我是个爱孩子的家长，只是吼了孩子。

I'm a good parent who loves her kid who yelled.

真的要把我的好身份和坏行为分开，否则根本没法跟孩子修复关系。

Like, really separating what I say is my good identity from my bad behavior, it will be actually completely impossible to repair with my kid.

如果我们自己都没重新找回同情、连接和善良，我们也没法给别人这些。

We we cannot give out compassion and connection and goodness if we haven't reaccessed those qualities in ourselves.

我们自己没有的东西，给不了别人。

We can't give out what we don't have in.

就是，怎么说呢。

It's just, like, I don't know.

我觉得这就像物理定律一样。

There's, like, physics, I think.

根本不可能。

Just not possible.

其实这不是物理学，但确实有点道理。

It's actually not physics, but it's something.

然后最后一步就是真正和孩子修复关系。

And then the last step is actually repairing with your kid.

这一步我觉得细节很重要，因为很多人可能都收到过让人不舒服的道歉，我说的不是那种。

And this is where I think getting into some of the details matter, because I think a lot of us probably have received apologies that didn't feel good, and that is not what I'm talking about.

修复不是——

A repair is not.

对不起我吼了你，但如果你不抱怨晚饭，就不会发生这种事。

Sorry I yelled, but if you didn't complain about dinner, it wouldn't have happened.

那不算修复。

That is not a repair.

如果我儿子说，是的，我真的不喜欢你吼我。

And if my son had said, yeah, like, I really didn't like when you yelled at me.

如果我说，是的，我很抱歉你有这种感觉，那句经典台词应该扔进垃圾桶。

If I say, yeah, I'm I'm sorry you feel that way, that is that classic line should be thrown in the garbage.

那不算修复。

It is not a repair.

修复是指说出发生了什么，为自己的行为负责，承认它对别人造成的影响，如果你想做得更好，还可以分享下次你会怎么做不同，或者你正在努力改进的地方。

A repair is naming what happened, taking responsibility for your behavior, acknowledging the impact it had on someone else, and if you really wanna go for bonus points, kind of like sharing what you would do differently the next time or what you're working on.

这听起来和“对不起，但如果你没做那件事，就不会发生”完全不一样。

And that sounds very different than, I'm sorry, but if you didn't do that, it wouldn't have happened.

更像是，“嘿”。

Sounds more like, hey.

我在厨房对你大喊大叫，我喊的时候从来都不是你的错。

I yelled at you in the kitchen, and it's never your fault when I yell.

我知道那一定让你很害怕。

I'm sure that felt really scary.

而且，你看，我当时很沮丧，但我在努力管理自己的情绪，不让它变成大喊大叫。

And, look, I was frustrated, but I'm working on managing my frustration so it doesn't come out as a yell.

修复是不是总是要包含彻底的道歉和承认错误？

Does repair always involve an abject apology and admission of fault?

如果情况更复杂呢？

What if it's more complicated?

如果，我是说，你的孩子当时表现得不太好，而且有时候我们对别人发火，是因为他们做得更过分。

What if there are I mean, your kid wasn't being awesome in that moment, and sometimes when we lose our shit with other people, they're being worse than that.

完全同意。

A 100%.

所以这里有很多细微差别。

So there's a lot of nuance here.

所以有几点要说，因为我知道，作为父母，你会想，但如果他没说那句话，你就不会吼。

So there's a couple things because I know, you know, as a parent, you're like, but, like, if he didn't say that, you wouldn't have yelled.

难道他不也有责任吗？

Like, isn't he kind of responsible?

或者，在伴侣关系中，你会说，但我妻子说了那种不太好的话。

Or, you know, you say in a partnership, but my wife said this kind of not so nice thing.

所以，她确实让我忍不住回嘴了。

So, like, she kind of did make me snap back at her.

对吧？

Okay?

但这里我想说的一点是。

But here's here's one of the things I think about here.

第一，我们常常把感到沮丧的权利，和用愤怒、不尊重的方式表达沮丧的权利混为一谈。

Number one, we confuse our right to feel frustration with our right to express frustration in an angry, disrespectful way.

这两件事是完全不同的。

They're two very different things.

有情绪是权利，但管理好情绪、以尊重的方式对待他人，尤其是我们在乎的关系，这是我们的责任。

The right to have a feeling, and our responsibility to manage that feeling so we can show up as a respectful person, especially in the relationships we care about.

这两者截然不同。

Those are two very different things.

比如我儿子说了那句话，或者假设我的伴侣总是晚餐迟到。

My son saying that, or maybe let's say, my partner constantly being late for dinners.

我当然会感到沮丧。

Of course, I feel frustrated.

当然，这跟我儿子说他不喜欢晚饭或者我丈夫迟到是两回事。

Of course, that relates to my son saying he didn't like dinner or my husband being late.

这跟我觉得自己有权以任何方式表达那种沮丧是完全不同的。

That is completely different from feeling like I have a right to express that frustration in any way I choose to express it.

我觉得区分这两点非常重要。

I think it's so important to differentiate that.

所以这是第一点。

So that's number one.

第二点，当父母这样对我说时，他们会说，是的。

Number two, when parents say this to me, they say, yeah.

嗯，我对孩子说，你看，如果你听我的话，按时准备好，我就不会吼你了。

Well, I said to my kid, look, if you just listened to me and got ready in time, I wouldn't have yelled.

或者如果你不抱怨晚饭，你也不会被吼。

Or if you didn't complain about dinner, you wouldn't have gotten yelled at.

好的。

Okay.

这就是我要说的。

This is what I say.

明白吗？

Okay?

因为我们给孩子树立的榜样，就是他们将来会做的事情。

Because what we model to our kid is what they will do in the future.

比如，丹，我想象一下，很多年后，在我儿子的家里，假设他结婚了，谁知道他会不会呢。

Like, Dan, I imagine being at my son's house, I don't know, however many years from now, let's say he's married, who knows if he will be.

但我听到他对他的伴侣说，听着，对不起我冲你吼了，但如果你当时记得带卫生纸回家，就不会发生这事了。

But and I hear him say, let's say to his partner, look, I'm sorry I yelled at you, but if you had just remembered to bring toilet paper home, it wouldn't have happened.

对不起我冲你吼了，但如果你做的晚餐真的好吃，就不会发生这事了。

I'm sorry I yelled at you, but if the dinner you made actually tasted good, it wouldn't have happened.

对我来说，如果我的孩子认为那样跟人说话是可以接受的，那真的让人尴尬得不行。

To me, it's like literally cringe worthy if my kid would think that that is an acceptable way to talk to someone.

我不知道有哪个成年人会说，是的，如果我听到我的孩子那样跟他们的亲人说话，我会觉得非常棒。

And I don't know any adult who would be like, yeah, I would feel pretty awesome if I heard my kid talk to some of their loved ones in that way.

如果我们不希望孩子长大后用那种方式和别人交流，

And if we don't want our kids to become adults who communicate with others in that way.

我们就不能那样和孩子沟通，还指望结果会不一样。

We just can't communicate with our kids in that way and expect it to be any different.

另外，如果我们把视野放宽一点，还有更大的图景。

There's also, like, a bigger picture here if we zoom out.

我意识到我非常非常看重个人能动性。

I I realized I'm very, very big on personal agency.

我经常对父母说，孩子的问题不是你的错。

And I always say to parents, like, what's going on with your kid isn't your fault.

我坚信这一点。

I believe that.

这是我非常坚定的信念。

That is like a firm, firm belief of mine.

另一个同样坚定的信念，我把它和这个放在一起，就是，好吧。

Another equally firm belief that I just sit side by side is, okay.

所以，我孩子的问题不是我的错。

So what's going on with my kid isn't my fault.

我是成年人。

I am the adult.

我是家里的领头人，所以这不仅是我的责任，我也有机会去思考我能做些什么来改变家里的氛围。

I'm the leader in the room, and so it is not only my responsibility, I do have an opportunity to think about what I could do to shift a dynamic in the home.

因为当我们改变系统中的某个部分时，系统中的其他人也必须做出调整来适应。

Because when we shift something in a system, everyone else in the system actually has to make a shift to accommodate.

举个例子，比如我每天早上都因为孩子上学前没准备好而对他们大喊大叫。

And so if we give that example of, let's say instead, I yell at my kid every morning because they're never ready for school.

而事实是，如果他们穿好了鞋，我就不会喊了。

And the truth is, if they did put on their shoes, wouldn't yell.

那倒是真的。

I guess that's true.

但对我来说，这样想很让人无力。

But to me, it's very disempowering.

作为一个成年人，觉得自己只要四岁的孩子按时听话就不会发火，这真的很让人无力。

It's very disempowering as an adult to think, you know, if my four year old just listened to me on time, I wouldn't yell.

就是说，我得指望我那个小不点改变行为，才能让自己成为想成为的那种大人。

Like, I am gonna put faith in my toddler's change in behavior for me to show up as the adult I want to show up as.

这就像一个大公司的CEO对员工说，如果你们都准时到岗，我就会是个更好的领导。

That would be like the CEO of a big company saying to their associates, you know, if you all showed up in time, I would be a better leader.

我觉得没人会想要这样的CEO。

I don't think anyone wants that CEO.

大家想要的是那种CEO，他会说，嘿。

You want a CEO who's like, hey.

我会从顶层开始做这些事，因为在这个情况下我其实最有权力。

Here's what I'm gonna do from the top because I actually am have the most power in this situation.

而且有一件非常重要的事情会发生，这在我家经常发生。

And there's a really important thing that happens, and this happens in my house all the time.

当我真的对我的孩子们说类似这样的话，嘿。

When I do say to my kids something like, hey.

听我说。

Listen.

比如说，对不起我吼了。

Something like, I'm sorry I yelled.

早上一直很忙乱。

The mornings have been really hectic.

我很烦躁。

I'm frustrated.

我正在努力控制。

I'm working on managing that.

我总是给自己二十四小时。

I always give myself twenty four hours later.

我总说修复之后必须有二十四小时。

I always say there has to be twenty four hours after repair.

当然。

Of course.

我是个务实的人。

I'm a pragmatist.

然后我会对孩子说，我不会说。

Then I'll say to my kid, I won't say.

还记得我昨天怎么跟你道歉的吗？

Now remember how I apologized to you yesterday?

其实我不是真心的，因为你早上真的很烦人。

I didn't actually mean it because you're actually just really annoying in the morning.

那肯定不是我会推荐的做法。

That definitely is not something I recommend.

但我会说的是，从看到孩子跟我站在同一战线出发。

But what I'll say is something from seeing my kid on my same team.

我会说，嘿。

I'd say, hey.

早上真的很难熬。

Mornings are so hard.

然后，比如我让你把鞋穿上。

And, like, I ask you put your shoes on.

你没穿。

You don't.

我又说了一遍。

I ask again.

你还是没穿。

You don't.

然后事情就变得非常糟糕，这都怪我。

And then it gets to the point where things feel really, really bad, and that's on me.

我想你也希望早上能顺利一些。

And I have to imagine you also want mornings to be smoother.

我在想我们能做点什么让早上更顺利。

I wonder what we could do to just make mornings smoother.

当孩子被以合作的方式对待，而不是控制或批评，他们其实很愿意配合，而且常常很愿意道歉，这也不奇怪。

And when kids are approached from a place of collaboration rather than control or criticism, it shouldn't be shocking that they're actually willing to collaborate, and they're often very willing to apologize.

我都没法告诉你，修复关系之后过了二十四小时，有多少次。

I can't even tell you how many times twenty four hours later after a repair.

我五岁的孩子过来跟我说，你知道吗，我真的没听你的话，对不起。

My five year old came and said, you know, and I I really didn't listen to you, and I'm sorry.

我觉得这又回到了我一直强调的那个核心观点，就是孩子本质是好的，如果我们为他们创造良好的成长条件，他们不需要被欺骗、贴贴纸、罚站或者惩罚。

Like, and I think this goes back to, like, this whole idea that drives everything I talk about that kids are good inside, that if we set up conditions for them to thrive, they don't have to be tricked or sticker charted or time outed or punished.

当我们以同样的善意去对待他们时，很多好的行为自然就会表现出来。

A lot of that does come out when we lead with a similar generosity.

所以我一直在想，跟我儿子在一起的时候，如果让他做一件简单的事我得说五遍，我可能会说，你看。

So I've been thinking with my son, you know, if it takes me five times to ask him to do something simple, I might say, look.

如果我再让你做一次，就会有后果，比如你可能会少玩五分钟的iPad。

There's gonna be a consequence if I have to ask you again, and you might lose five minutes for your iPad time or something like that.

好。

Great.

好。

Great.