什么是去增长？

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Get the ultimate podcast experience on our website.

查找文字稿和字幕，帮助你更好地理解内容。

Find transcripts and subtitles to help you understand.

试试练习题和测验，检验你的学习成果，再用我们整理好的词汇表辅助记忆。

Try worksheets and quizzes to test what you've learned and use our handy vocabulary lists to help you study.

还有像《从伦敦到爱丁堡挑战》和《发音小屋》这样的视频系列，帮你提升英语水平。

Plus find video series like the London to Edinburgh challenge and the Pronunciation Lounge to improve your English skills.

所有内容都在 bbclearningenglish.com 上提供。

It's all available at bbclearningenglish.com.

六分钟英语。

Six Minute English.

来自 bbclearningenglish.com。

From bbclearningenglish.com.

大家好，欢迎收听BBC学习英语出品的《六分钟英语》。

Hello and welcome to Six Minute English from BBC Learning English.

我是菲尔，今天很高兴再次邀请到汉娜，她来自BBC播客《究竟发生了什么？》

I'm Phil and today we have Hannah joining us again from BBC podcast, What in the World?

欢迎你，汉娜。

Welcome Hannah.

嗨，菲尔，能回来真是太好了。

Hey Phil, it is so great to be back here.

我一直在想，

So I'm wondering,

你

do

会做那些你觉得对地球有益的事吗？

you do things that you think are good for the planet?

哦，我有在努力，但觉得自己做得还不够。

Oh, I try, but I don't think I do enough.

比如我骑车比开车多，也尽量回收利用，但其实我还可以做得更多。

So maybe I cycle more than I drive, and I try to recycle things, but I should be doing a lot more.

但有些人认为，应对气候变化不能只靠个人努力。

But some people think that to deal with climate change, we can't just rely on individuals.

菲尔，这事儿不是你我一个人能决定的。

Phil, it's not up to you and me.

我们需要从根本上改变经济的运行方式。

We need to actually change the way our economy works.

这叫‘去增长’，我们在《世界究竟怎么了》这个播客里一直在研究这个概念。

And this is an idea called degrowth, and we've been investigating it at What in the World?

今天我们会更深入地了解一下它。

And we're going to learn a bit more about it today.

不过在那之前，先来个问答环节。

But first, our quiz question.

2015年，世界各国领导人承诺要控制全球气温上升，他们当时同意的上限是多少？

World leaders promised in 2015 to limit global temperature rises, but what was the limit they agreed to?

是a) 1.5摄氏度，b) 2.5摄氏度，还是c) 3.5摄氏度？

Was it a) 1.5 degrees Celsius b) 2.5 degrees Celsius or c) 3.5 degrees Celsius?

我觉得我知道这个，Phil。

I think I know this one, Phil.

我觉得是1.5摄氏度。

I think it's 1.5 degrees Celsius.

好吧，我们稍后在节目中揭晓答案。

Okay, we'll find out the answer later in the programme.

所以Hannah，你一直在研究降增长。

So Hannah, you've been researching degrowth.

这到底是什么意思？

What does that mean?

嗯，Phil，传统上政府总想让经济扩张——赚更多钱、创造更多就业、生产更多东西，但降增长是一种完全不同的思路。

Well, Phil, traditionally governments have always wanted to grow the economy more money, more jobs, more stuff but degrowth is a different way of thinking about things.

有些人认为，要应对气候危机，我们就得让经济不再增长。

Some people say that to tackle the climate crisis we need to stop our economies from growing.

得停止不断消耗和生产，转而专注于减少对地球自然资源的使用。

We need to stop using and making more, and focus on using fewer of the Earth's natural resources.

支持去增长理念的人通常被称为去增长派。

The people who support the idea of degrowth are often called degrowthers.

对。

Right.

所以，去增长派认为我们应该减少生产和消费。

Okay, so degrowthers argue we should make and use less stuff.

是的。

Yes.

基本上是这样。

Mostly.

但实际情况比这要复杂一些。

It's a little bit more complex than that.

我采访了BBC记者阿尔瓦罗·阿尔瓦雷斯，他给我讲了更多关于这个理念的内容。

And I spoke to BBC journalist Alvaro Alvarez, who told me more about the idea.

所以，去增长并不是说我们要全面减少一切。

So degrowth is not saying that we need to reduce everything.

它的意思是，我们需要减少那些没有好处的生产环节。

It's saying that we need to decrease some elements of our production that are not beneficial.

比如快时尚、私人飞机、牛肉和肉类产业，这些都是例子。

An example of those elements would be fast fashion, private jets, the beef and meat industry.

所以并不是要全面减少所有东西。

So it's not about decreasing everything.

阿尔瓦罗说，去增长支持者认为应该削减某些生产环节。

Alvaro says that degrowthers believe we should reduce some elements of production.

某个事物的‘环节’，就是它的一个组成部分。

An element of something is a part of something.

根据阿尔瓦罗的说法，这些生产环节并不被认为是有益的。

And according to Alvaro, these elements of production are not believed to be beneficial.

如果某样东西是有益的，那就是有用或者好的。

If something's beneficial, it's useful or good.

去增长支持者反对的一种生产方式，就是快时尚。

One example of a kind of production that degrowthers disagree with is fast fashion.

快时尚指的是那些生产价格极低、速度极快的服装，这样消费者就能负担得起更频繁地买新衣服。

Fast fashion refers to clothes that are made very cheaply and quickly so that customers can afford to buy new outfits more often.

没错。

Exactly.

不过在我们接着聊之前，得先提一句，很多经济学家都不认为去增长是个好方向。

And before we go any further, many economists do not think that degrowth is a good idea.

其中一些人觉得这种理念会加剧贫困，还有些经济学家认为，去增长反而会让我们更难解决气候危机。

Some of them argue that it would create more poverty, and some economists believe degrowth would actually make it harder to solve the climate crisis.

举个例子，英国剑桥大学的经济学家萨姆·范克豪瑟教授就曾

For example, Professor Sam Fankhauser, an economist at Cambridge University in The UK, spoke

在

to

《这究竟是怎么回事》节目里和大家聊过这个话题

you on What in the world?

他提出，去增长理论可能会抑制创新

And he argues that degrowth could limit innovation.

我觉得降增长低估了创新的力量。

I think degrowth underestimates the power of innovation.

降增长忽视了我们对新技术和新解决方案所需的投资。

Degrowth underestimates the need for investment that we need in new technology and in new solutions.

而且降增长也低估了他们所提方案在社会层面的可实现性。

And degrowth underestimates the social sort of feasibility of what they propose.

所以范克豪瑟教授认为，降增长低估了包括创新在内的很多方面。

So Professor Fankhauser thinks that degrowth underestimates many things such as innovation.

如果你低估了某样东西，就是没意识到它真正的价值或重要性。

If you underestimate something, you don't understand the true importance or size of it.

范克豪瑟教授还提到，降增长论者也忽视了社会变革的可行性。

Another factor that Professor Fankhauser says is underestimated by degrowthers is the feasibility of social change.

可行性就是某件事能否真正实现的可能性。

Feasibility means the possibility that something can be achieved.

这个词来自形容词‘可行的’。

It comes from the adjective feasible.

比如说，我觉得我们完全可以在六分钟内把这个播客做完。

For example, I could say that I think it's feasible for us to finish this podcast in six minutes.

我觉得咱们能办到。

I think we can do it.

好了，菲尔，咱们得抓紧点了。

Well, Phil, we're going to have to get a move on.

是时候揭晓你那个测验题的答案了。

I think it's time to hear the answer to your quiz question.

我之前问的是，世界各国领导人同意将全球气温上升控制在多少范围内。

I asked how much world leaders agreed to limit global temperature rises to.

答案是1.5摄氏度，科学家认为，只有控制在这个范围内，才能避免气候变化最严重的影响。

The answer is 1.5 degrees Celsius, which scientists believe is needed to stop the worst impacts of climate change.

我答对了！

I got it right!

好，我们来回顾一下刚才学过的几个词，首先是‘去增长’，它指的是经济上应该减少生产和消费。

Okay, so let's recap some of the vocabulary we've learned, starting with degrowth, which is the economic idea that we should use and make less stuff.

‘元素’指的是某事物的一部分。

An element of something means a part of something.

‘有益的’就是有用或者好的意思。

Beneficial means useful or good.

‘快时尚’指的是那些廉价快速生产出来的衣服，让人能更频繁地购买。

Fast fashion refers to clothes that are made cheaply and quickly so that people can buy them more often.

如果你低估了某件事，那就是没意识到它真正的分量或重要性。

And if you underestimate something, you don't understand the true importance or size of it.

某件事的‘可行性’，就是它能否实现的可能性。

The feasibility of something is the likelihood that it can be achieved.

我们也可以用‘可行的’或‘不可行的’来形容一件事。

We can also describe something as feasible or unfeasible.

我们能做成，或者做不成。

We can do it or we can't do it.

菲尔，又到六分钟了，不过我还能挤出一点时间，跟你多讲讲我的播客《究竟发生了什么？》。

Phil, once again, our six minutes are up, but there is just a little bit more time for me to tell you more about my podcast, What in the World?

我们每天工作日都会更新一集新内容，讨论新闻和热门话题。

We have a new episode every single weekday, and we talk about the news, trending topics.

事实上，这里是学习当下全球热点相关新词汇的绝佳场所。

In fact, it's a great place to come and learn some new vocabulary about things that are happening in the world.

没错。

Yes.

如果你觉得这期节目有意思，不妨去看看《What in the World？》

If you found this episode interesting, try watching What in the World?

在YouTube上观看，配上字幕，练习英语。

On YouTube with subtitles to practise your English.

节目简介里有观看链接。

There's a link in the notes for this episode.

别忘了去bbclearningenglish.com做测验和练习题。

And don't forget to try the quiz and worksheet at bbclearningenglish.com.

Phil，非常感谢你再次邀请我做客《六分钟英语》。

Phil, thank you so much for having me again on six Minute English.

那先这样，再见。

Bye for now.

再见。

Bye.

六分钟英语。

Six Minute English.

来自bbc学习英语网。

From bbclearningenglish.com.