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从国家首都驱车三百五十英里到达西弗吉尼亚州的麦克道尔县，这里的经济负担能力决定了你是能买得起杂货还是能支付得起取暖费用。
Drive three fifty miles from the nation's capital to McDowell County, West Virginia, where affordability is the difference between buying groceries and heating a home.
在这里，干净的饮用水很难获得。
Clean drinking water is hard to come by here.
打开水龙头，看到的可能是这样的景象。
A turn of the tap can look like this.
这种情况不应该在世界上任何地方发生，更不用说在世界上最富裕的国家了。
This shouldn't be the case anywhere in the world, let alone in the wealthiest nation in the world.
目前有一群难民正在被美国接纳。
There is one group of refugees being welcomed to The United States.
特朗普总统称，来自南非的白人农民是种族灭绝的受害者。
President Trump says white farmers from South Africa are victims of a genocide.
这些就是这里的墓地。
These are burial sites right here.
墓地。
Burial sites.
一千多名白人农民。
Over a thousand of white farmers.
我们前往南非亲自核实情况。
We went to South Africa to see for ourselves.
这绝对不是墓地。
It definitely wasn't a burial site.
我的意思是，那些十字架在这里还不到48小时。
I mean, those crosses were there for less than forty eight hours.
拉菲克·阿纳多尔邀请我们进入他在L的这个空间。
Rafiq Anadol invited us inside this space at his L.
A。
A.
工作室。
Studio.
我们周围的所有图像都是阿纳多尔使用人工智能创建的。
Every image that surrounds us, Anadol created using artificial intelligence.
所以那些不是真正的鸟？
So those are not real birds?
不是。
No.
好好感受一下。
Take it in.
哇哦。
Woah.
一种迷人的形状与色彩流动，让你感觉像是爱丽丝误入了五十号工作室。
A hypnotic flow of shapes and colors that can make you feel like Alice in Wonderland stumbled into Studio fifty four.
这是个把戏吗？
Is this a party trick?
我不这么认为。
I don't think so.
我觉得这是一种新的艺术形式。
I feel like it's a new form of art.
我是莱斯利·斯塔尔。
I'm Leslie Stall.
我是斯科特·佩利。
I'm Scott Pelly.
我是比尔·惠特克。
I'm Bill Whittaker.
我是安德森·库珀。
I'm Anderson Cooper.
我是莎伦·阿尔方西。
I'm Sharon Alfonci.
我是约翰·韦特海姆。
I'm John Wertheim.
我是塞西莉亚·维加。
I'm Cecilia Vega.
这些故事在我们节目的最后一分钟结束，一位冰球传奇人物回顾了美国的目标，今晚请收看《60分钟》。
Those stories end in our last minute, a hockey great reflects on America's goals, tonight on sixty Minutes.
对一些人来说，这是繁荣的时代。
For some, these are the boom times.
401(k)计划正在激增。
401s are surging.
股市已创下历史新高。
The stock market has hit an all time high.
但只需从国家首都驱车三百五十英里，对话的主题就不再是如何致富，而是如何生存。
But drive just three fifty miles from the nation's capital, and the conversation isn't about how to get rich, but how to survive.
西弗吉尼亚州的麦克道尔县曾是全国最大的煤炭生产地。
McDowell County, West Virginia was once the nation's largest coal producer.
如今，它却是全国最贫困的地区之一，这里曾是食品券计划的发源地，后来又成为阿片类药物危机的重灾区。
It is now one of the poorest places in the country, where the food stamp program started and later the opioid crisis took hold.
如今，那里三分之一的家庭依赖食品券，而这项数十年来养活无数家庭的计划，如今正面临历史上最大规模的削减。
Today, one in three households there depends on those food stamps, and now the program that has fed families for decades is facing the largest cuts in history.
上个月，我们前往麦克道尔县，发现这种模式并不罕见。
We went to McDowell County last month and learned that this is an all too familiar pattern.
政府的帮助来来去去，承诺许下又破灭，而人民却被抛在身后。
Government help comes and goes, promises are made and broken, and the people are left behind.
麦克道尔县位于西弗吉尼亚州南部的煤炭产区，横跨阿巴拉契亚山脉，面积超过500平方英里。
McDowell County sits deep in the southern coal fields of West Virginia, stretching more than 500 square miles across the Appalachian Mountains.
这里只有一盏交通灯，而教堂的数量多到数不清。
There's just one traffic light and more churches than we could count.
在这里，获得干净的饮用水十分困难。
It's a place where clean drinking water is hard to come by.
拧开水龙头，水可能就是这个样子。
A turn of the tap can look like this.
我想，如果你问这里大概九成的人，他们会告诉你，他们觉得自己被彻底遗忘了。
I think if you would ask probably nine out of 10 individuals here, they would tell you that they feel very much forgotten.
被谁？
By who?
所有人。
Everybody.
政府。
The government.
你能想到的每一个机构。
Every institution that you can think of.
所以跟我讲讲这个教区吧。
So tell me about the congregation
布拉德·戴维斯牧师在煤矿区长大，就在县界那边，现在领导着麦道威县五所卫理公会教堂的会众。
Pastor Brad Davis grew up in the coal fields just over the county line and now leads congregations at five United Methodist churches in McDowell.
他每天倾听那些信任上帝、彼此信任，却几乎不再信任其他任何东西的人。
He spends his days listening to those who trust God, each other, and not much else.
我曾直接听到有人问：为什么人们不搬走呢？
I've heard directly people say, well, why don't people just move?
我对这个问题的回答是：为什么要
And my response to that is why should
我们？
we?
我们为什么要搬走？
Why should we have to move?
这是我们的家。
This is home.
现在我们来到了温馨的家。
Now we're coming into Home, sweet home.
家。
Home.
贝蒂·斯蒂普一直住在
Betty Step has lived in the
阿尼沃尔镇，整整七十六年了。
town of Aniwalt for all of her seventy six years.
那是杰基。
There's Jackie.
大家都按喇叭互相打招呼？
Everybody honks at everybody?
足够长，记得这里曾经有过学校、剧院和医生。
Long enough to remember when there was still a school, a theater, and a doctor.
如果牛奶用完了，你得开多远的车？
If you run out of milk, you gotta drive how far?
45分钟。
45.
四十五分钟。
Forty five minutes.
两座山。
Two mountains.
那还得你买得起车才行。
That's if you can afford a car.
这里很多人买不起。
Many here can't.
但镇上唯一剩下的生意
Yet the only business left in town
要表现得最好。
To be on their best behavior.
汤姆和唐纳德的汽修店。
Tom and Donald's mechanic shop.
这是汤姆。
This is Tom.
你好。
Hi.
你怎么样？
How are doing?
这是唐纳德。
This is Donald.
我叫唐纳德。
The name is Donald.
唐纳德和汤姆深受本地区所有寡妇的喜爱。
Donald and Tom are beloved by all the widows in this area.
一位退休的教师助理，贝蒂和她的丈夫靠固定收入生活。
A retired teacher's aide, Betty and her husband live on a fixed income.
如今，一切都感觉很贵。
These days, everything feels expensive.
如果我去超市购物，每次花销都不少于200美元，这可是整整一周的开销。
If I go to the grocery store, I can't get out of there in less than $200 And that's a week.
有时候甚至要花300美元，杂货价格真的太高了。
Sometimes it's $300 Groceries are really high.
你都
What have you
在这些时候不得不削减哪些开支？
had to cut back on in these times?
牛肉肯定是其中之一。
Beef for sure.
我减少了鸡肉的购买，
I cut back on chicken,
蔬菜。
vegetables.
她并不是一个人。
She's not alone.
在全国各地，家庭都感受到了压力。
Across the country, families are feeling the squeeze.
与2022年相比，食品价格几乎上涨了20%。
Food prices are almost 20% higher today than in 2022.
我听了很多来自这个社区的人说，如果我们不互相帮助，就不会有人来帮我们。
I've heard a lot of folks from this community say if we don't help each other, no one's gonna help
来拯救我们。
gonna come and save us.
我们互相拯救。
We save each other.
琳达·麦金尼经营着该县最大的食品银行。
Linda McKinney runs the county's largest food bank
你每个月可以来一次。
You're allowed to come once a month.
完全依靠捐赠和志愿者。
Entirely on donations and volunteers.
自从去年秋天政府停摆以来，全国各地的美国人数周失去了SNAP福利或食品券。
Since the government shut down this past fall, when Americans around the country lost SNAP benefits or food stamps for weeks.
琳达说，最近来了更多新面孔。
Linda says more new faces have been coming in.
最近，有很多
Lately, have a
年轻母亲来，她们会说：从没想过自己会来这儿。
lot of young mothers that come, and they'll say, never thought I'd have to come.
最让我心碎的是孩子们。
And the children is what breaks my heart.
他们并没有选择来到这种境地，却每天都在承受痛苦。
They didn't ask to be brought into this situation, and they suffer daily.
每个周末，都有超过100名儿童收到装满食物的背包，以便他们在不上学时有东西吃。
Every weekend, more than 100 children receive backpacks filled with food so they have something to eat when they're not in school.
我们发现，有些家长会说：‘我孩子没拿到零食包。’
The thing that we're finding, we have parents that say, well, my kid didn't get a snack bag.
然后你就会发现，那个孩子在周五的公交车上就已经在吃这些食物了。
And then you find out the child on Friday is eating that food on the bus.
他们饿了。
They're hungry.
他们太饿了。
They're so hungry.
本来打算让他们撑过周末的食物，他们却在
The food that's supposed to last them through the weekend, they're eating
公交车上吃。
on the bus.
他们在公交车上吃。
They're eating on the bus.
这是两种经济的对比。
It's a tale of two economies.
在白宫，你会听到关于就业增长和战胜通胀的消息。
At the White House, you'll hear about job growth and victory over inflation.
我们刚刚收到了通胀大幅下降的绝佳报告。
We just had fantastic reports on inflation way down.
但在麦克道尔，家庭中位数收入约为3万美元。
But in McDowell, the median household income is about $30,000.
在这里，负担能力不是一个流行词。
Affordability isn't a buzzword here.
这关乎是买 groceries 还是支付取暖费。
It's the difference between buying groceries or paying for heat.
在20世纪40年代，麦克道尔县曾因煤矿业而富裕。
In the nineteen forties, McDowell County was rich in coal jobs.
这些矿井为美国提供动力，帮助修建了铁路和城市。
These mines powered America, helping to build railroads and cities.
在鼎盛时期，近十万人居住在这里，领取全国最高的时薪之一。
At its peak, nearly 100,000 people lived here, earning some of the nation's highest hourly wages.
但随着机器的引入，采矿工作逐渐减少，当地经济随之崩溃。
But as machines moved in, mining jobs dwindled and the local economy collapsed.
1960年，约翰·F.
In 1960, John F.
肯尼迪曾在这里竞选总统。
Kennedy campaigned for president here.
我认为政府至少可以做四到五件事。
I think there are at least four or five things the government can do.
他所目睹的贫困促使他推出了现代食品券计划。
The poverty he witnessed led him to launch the modern food stamp program.
麦克道尔县的居民是首批受益者。
McDowell County residents were the first recipients.
如今在麦克道尔，只剩下不到一千个煤矿工作岗位，人口也仅剩一万七千人。
Today in McDowell, there are fewer than a thousand coal jobs left, and only 17,000 people remain.
我们缺少很多东西。
We lack so much.
我们缺少工作。
We lack jobs.
仅在这个县，就没有足够的工作供每个人。
Just in the county alone, there is not enough jobs for everyone.
26岁的塔比莎·柯林斯曾经是一位全职家庭主妇，直到去年她的未婚夫在工作中被车撞伤，导致残疾。
26 year old Tabitha Collins was a stay at home mom until her fiance was hit by a car on the job last year and left disabled.
你来这里多久一次？
And how often are you here?
我每周来五天。
I'm here five days a week.
她在当地非营利组织“大溪人民行动”工作，是家中六口人的唯一经济来源。
She works at a local nonprofit, Big Creek People in Action, and is the sole income earner for her family of six.
除了照顾他们的幼儿，她还要帮忙抚养未婚夫的三个年幼的兄弟姐妹。
Along with caring for their toddler, she's also helping to raise her fiance's three younger siblings.
你有责任以体面的方式抚养这些孩子，你知道的，还要教他们关于毒品泛滥的问题以及它如何影响他人，因为这是我们面临的主要困境之一。
It's up to you to raise these kids in a decent manner, you know, and try to teach them about the drug epidemic and how it can affect others, because that's a lot of what we struggle with.
在被阿片类药物摧毁的县里，这是一个常见的故事。
In a county ravaged by opioids, it's a common story.
这场流行病夺走了一整代父母的生命，留下像塔比莎这样的人，用更少的资源抚养更多的孩子。
The epidemic claimed a generation of parents, leaving family members like Tabitha raising more children on less.
即使有食品券，她也常常捉襟见肘。
Even with food stamps, she often comes up short.
我们在食物方面仍然很困难。
We still struggle food wise.
我仍然不得不从工资中拿出很大一部分，因此就没钱付账单了。
I still have to take a lot out of my payday, which therefore doesn't go towards bills.
到了冬天，我们的电费非常高。
And in the wintertime, our power is very high.
你们是靠领工资过日子吗？
You live in paycheck to paycheck?
是的。
Yes.
当你说到电费很高时，到底高到什么程度？
And when you say the electrical bills were high, how high are we talking?
在十二月，我的电费是480美元。
In the month of December, my electrical bill was $480
你们收到了停电通知。
You got a shut off notice.
我们确实收到了。
We sure did.
我的意思是，这太吓人了。
I mean, it was scary.
我一直在想办法，到底哪个账单更重要，你知道的，最后只能做这样的选择。
I was trying to figure out which bill was more important, you know, and it comes down to that.
这个选择即将变得更加艰难。
That choice is about to become more difficult.
由于特朗普总统去年通过的一项全面国内政策法案，SNAP和医疗补助福利正面临历史上最大规模的联邦资金削减，未来十年将削减超过一万亿美元。
SNAP and Medicaid benefits are facing the biggest federal funding cuts in history, more than a trillion dollars over the next decade, as a result of president Trump's sweeping domestic policy bill passed last year.
各州将不得不承担更多费用，而受益者将面临更严格的工作要求。
It will be up to states to pick up more of the costs, and recipients will face stricter work requirements.
数十万西弗吉尼亚人可能会失去这些福利。
Tens of thousands of West Virginians will likely lose benefits.
我们非常依赖这些福利，但这并不是因为我们占政府的便宜。
We rely on the benefits very much, and it's not because we're taking advantage of the government.
而是因为我们确实需要这些东西。
It's because we actually need these things.
我想知道，你是否认为这就是一些人对这个问题的看法。
I wonder if you think that that's what the perception is that some people have.
我确实这么认为，但我并不相信这种看法。
I do, but I don't believe that.
我的意思是，我们很多人都是在职公民，但仍然勉强维持生计。
I mean, we are a lot of us are working citizens, and we're still barely making it by.
外人常常很快断定这是特朗普的地盘，但这里的政治却难以简单归类。
Outsiders are often quick to assume this is Trump country, but politics here defy easy labels.
几十年来，麦克道尔县一直支持民主党，在2008年投票支持奥巴马，在2016年总统初选中支持伯尼·桑德斯。
For decades, McDowell voted blue, backing Barack Obama in 2008 and Bernie Sanders in the twenty sixteen presidential primary.
在最近三次选举中，特朗普总统赢得了该县，而该县是全州投票率最低的地方。
In the last three elections, president Trump won the county, which had the lowest voter participation in the state.
我认为，作为社区，我们 collectively 对改变如此渴望，以至于当有人出现并说‘我要让煤炭再次伟大’时，我们就死死抓住这个承诺不放。
I I think we as a community collectively are so desperate to see some sort of change that when someone comes along and says, I'm going to make coal great again, we desperately cling to that with a death grip.
我认为这在很大程度上解释了为什么这里的政治氛围发生了如此转变。
And I think that goes a long way in explaining why the political climate here has shifted the way it has.
为了表达我们的感激之情
To show our appreciation
本月早些时候，煤炭企业高管和矿工们向特朗普总统赠送了一座奖杯，称他为‘美丽清洁煤炭的无可争议冠军’，这是在他发布最新行政命令以提振煤炭产业之后。
Earlier this month, coal executives and miners handed president Trump a trophy declaring him the, quote, undisputed champion of beautiful clean coal after his latest executive order aimed at boosting the coal industry.
在麦克道尔县，无论是来自白宫还是州政府，他们早就听过这些话了。
In McDowell, whether from the White House or the state house, they've heard it all before.
那些许诺过却从未兑现的承诺是什么？
What are the promises that have been made and not kept?
经济复苏、煤炭工业的复兴、消除贫困、改善我们的供水系统。
Economic resurgence, renaissance of the coal industry, the elimination of poverty, fixing our water systems.
宏大的承诺。
Big promises.
宏大的承诺，但什么都没变。
Big promises, and nothing ever changes.
政府的失败在该县的供水系统上体现得最为明显，有时水根本就浑浊不堪。
Nowhere is the failure of government more clear than in the county's water supply, which at times is not clear at all.
很少有人相信这水足够安全可以饮用，愤怒的居民们记录下了从老化管道中渗出的黑色和棕色液体，这些都是煤炭工业遗留的污染。
Few trust that it's safe enough to drink and angry residents have documented the black and brown that oozes from aging pipes and contamination left behind from the coal industry.
西弗吉尼亚州州长最近拨出了830万美元的联邦资金，用于升级麦克道尔县的污水和供水管道，但这与县和州官员所说的所需资金相比只是杯水车薪。
West Virginia's governor recently set aside $8,300,000 in federal funds to upgrade sewage and water lines in McDowell, a drop in the bucket compared to what county and state officials say is still needed.
这是自来水。
This is tap water.
当布拉德牧师不在教堂时，他常常向政客们恳求做更多事情。
When pastor Brad isn't in church, he's often pleading with politicians to do more.
你认为这是一场公共卫生危机吗？
You see this as a public health crisis?
当然。
Absolutely.
这个县的一些地区，有人已经六年或更长时间没有洗过热水澡了，因为水中的气味会让他们身体不适。
There are people in parts of this county who haven't taken a hot shower in six years or longer because the fumes from the water makes them physically ill.
皮肤起疹和灼伤的报告并不罕见。
Reports of skin rashes and burns are not uncommon.
许多家庭每月在瓶装水上花费超过150美元，这还不包括他们的水费。
Many families spend upwards of $150 a month for bottled water on top of their water bills.
这不是每个人都能负担得起的奢侈。
It's a luxury not everyone can afford.
因此，他们在这里的老矿井口接水，水从山侧喷涌而出。
So they fill up here at this old mine shaft shooting water from the side of a mountain.
我认为，要让很多人理解这一点很难：美国公民竟然要搭车到路边的泉眼，提着水桶来接水，因为这竟是他们获取饮用水的唯一途径。
I think it's gonna be hard for a lot of folks to get their mind around that you've got American citizens getting a ride to a spring on the side of the road to bring a jug to fill up because that's their only access to water.
人们难以接受这种情况，这本就该让人难以接受，因为这种情况根本不该发生。
And it should be hard for people to wrap their minds around because this shouldn't be the case.
这种事不该在世界任何地方发生，更不该发生在世界上最富裕的国家。
This shouldn't be the case anywhere in the world, let alone in the wealthiest nation in the world.
为了减轻负担，贝蒂·斯蒂普和其他退休人员——其中最年轻的也有70岁——挨家挨户运送沉重的瓶装水给邻居们。
To ease the burden, Betty Stepp and other retirees, the youngest of whom is 70, go door to door delivering heavy cases of water to neighbors.
我认为我们的政府需要听到我们的声音。
I think our government needs to hear us.
我们一生都在这里辛勤工作。
We've worked our whole life here.
为什么他们就不肯帮帮我们呢？
Why won't they help us?
掌权的人是谁重要吗？
Does it matter who's in charge?
不管是共和党还是民主党，都没关系。
It doesn't matter if it's Republicans or Democrats.
真的没关系。
It doesn't matter.
在麦克道尔县，人们只有两个选择：留下艰难维持生计，或者凑够钱离开。
In McDowell County, people face two choices, stay and scrape by or scrape together enough money to leave.
塔比莎·柯林斯选择留下。
Tabitha Collins is staying.
你才26岁，是的。
You're 26 years old Mhmm.
而且你还要抚养四个孩子。
And you're raising four kids.
这责任可真不小。
That's a lot of responsibility.
确实很重。
It's a lot.
我不知道自己是怎么撑过来的，但我确实撑过来了。
I don't know how I get through it, but I do.
我只是想和别人一样实现梦想，拥有家庭、拥有家园，不再为这里所面临的艰难困苦而焦虑。
I just wanna live the dream like anyone else does, you know, have a family, have a home, and not stress about the hardships that we have around here.
教区居民告诉过你，他们觉得自己仿佛生活在一个第三世界国家吗？
Parishers have told you that they feel like they're tired of living in what feels like a third world country?
这是原话。
That's a direct quote.
你怎么做
What do
你会怎么回应这样对你说的人？
you say to someone who says that to you?
阿门。
Amen.
阿门。
Amen.
因为我 тоже厌倦了。
Because I'm tired of it too.
这种情况持续得太久了。
It's gone on long enough.
生活可能会让人感到不堪重负，但你不必独自面对。
Life can feel overwhelming, but you don't have to go through it alone.
在我的播客《与拉切尔·布雷森从心出发》中，我坦诚而脆弱地分享生活带给我们的种种经历，以及当我们更敞开心扉地生活时，能学到什么。
On my podcast, From the Heart with Rachel Braithen, I share openly and vulnerably about everything life brings us and what we can learn by living with our hearts a little bit more open.
每周五，新的一集都会带给你一个新故事，主题涵盖自我关怀、母职、疗愈等。
Every Friday, a new episode brings you a new story with topics on self care, motherhood, healing, and more.
你本就足够好，这个播客就是对你这一点的提醒。
You are enough just the way you are, and this podcast is a reminder of that.
请在您收听播客的平台关注并收听《与拉切尔·布雷森从心出发》。
Follow and listen to From the Heart with Rachel Braithman wherever you get your podcasts.
十一月，特朗普总统宣布，他将永久暂停所有第三世界国家向美国的移民，原因是有一名国民警卫队成员被杀，另一名严重受伤，据称袭击者是一名阿富汗难民。
In November, President Trump announced he would, quote, permanently pause migration from all third world countries to The US after a member of the National Guard was killed and another badly wounded in Washington, allegedly by an Afghan refugee.
但特朗普政府正在欢迎一个特定的难民群体。
But there is one group of refugees the Trump administration is welcoming.
它正在加速白人南非人——主要是荷兰移民后裔的阿非利卡人——的重新安置。
It's expediting the resettlement of white South Africans, mostly Afrikaners who are descendants of Dutch settlers.
特朗普总统称，白人农民是种族灭绝的受害者。
President Trump says that white farmers are victims of a genocide.
南非政府对此表示否认。
The South African government disputes that.
我们前往南非，亲自了解情况。
We went to South Africa to see for ourselves.
在南非东南部夸祖鲁-纳塔尔省的连绵丘陵中，我们遇到了达里尔·布朗，一位第七代牧场主和农民。
In the rolling hills of KwaZulu Natal province in the Southeast of South Africa, we met Darryl Brown, a seventh generation rancher and farmer.
你从小就知道自己会成为一名农民吗？
Did you grow up knowing you would be a farmer?
这一直深植于我的血脉之中。
It was always in my blood.
这是一种使命。
It's a calling.
但这种使命常常伴随着风险。
But that calling has often come with risks.
十年前，他82岁的父亲在农场遭到劫匪暴力袭击，劫匪想找枪和钱。
Ten years ago, his 82 year old father was brutally attacked on the farm by robbers looking for guns and money.
2020年，布朗在附近农场的朋友们格伦和维塔·拉弗蒂在抢劫中被杀害。
Then in 2020, Brown's friends, Glenn and Vita Rafferty, were murdered in a robbery on their farm nearby.
你的父亲曾遭到袭击。
Your father was attacked.
你的朋友曾被杀害。
You've had friends murdered.
你生活在恐惧中吗？
Do you live in fear?
我当然生活得非常谨慎。
I certainly live carefully.
我们清楚周围发生的事情。
We're aware of what's happening around us.
我们不会冒无谓的风险。
We don't take silly chances.
我们来到达雷尔·布朗的农场，是因为特朗普总统去年五月关于南非农民遇害事件的言论。
We came to Darrell Brown's farm because of what president Trump said last May about the murders of South African farmers.
这是一场你们不愿报道的种族灭绝，但确实正在发生，农民们正在被杀害。
It's a genocide that's taking place that you people don't wanna write about, but it's a terrible thing that's taking place, and farmers are being killed.
他们恰好是白人。
They happen to be white.
九天后，南非总统西里尔·拉马福萨前往白宫。
Nine days later, South Africa's president, Cyril Ramaphosa, came to the White House.
埃隆·马斯克出生在南非，也曾声称发生过种族灭绝，他当时也在场。
Elon Musk, was born in South Africa and has also made claims of genocide, was there too.
接下来发生的事情似乎让拉马福萨措手不及。
What happened next seemed to take Ramiposa by surprise.
不好意思。
Excuse me.
把灯调暗。
Turn the lights down.
特朗普总统展示了几个视频，白宫称这些是针对白人农民的暴力行为的证据。
President Trump showed several videos, proof the White House said of the violence targeting white farmers.
这些就是埋葬地点。
These are burial sites right here.
上千名白人农民的埋葬地点。
Burial sites over a thousand of white farmers.
我们找到了那些白色十字架曾经竖立的地方。
We found the spot where those white crosses were once planted.
这是一条远离达雷尔·布朗牧场的荒凉土路。
It's a lonely pothold road not far from Darryl Brown's ranch.
这绝对不是一个埋葬地点。
It definitely wasn't a burial site.
我的意思是，那些十字架在那里不到四十八小时。
I mean, those crosses were there for less than forty eight hours.
那只是我们为纪念在南非遇害的商业农民而竖立的一排十字架。
It was purely an avenue of crosses that we planted there in honor of commercial farmers in South Africa that had lost their lives.
布朗知道这些十字架，因为他在他朋友格伦和维塔·拉弗蒂的葬礼当天把它们立了起来。
Brown knows about the crosses because he put them there on the day of his friends, Glenn and Vita Rafferty's funeral.
他把它们锁在棚屋里。
He keeps them locked in a shed.
2024年，他又把它们拿出来，用于他最好的朋友托利·内尔的葬礼，托利也在自己的农场被谋杀。
In 2024, he brought them out again for the funeral of his best friend, Toly Nell, who was also murdered on his farm.
托利的妻子雷妮仍然住在那里。
Toly's wife, Renee, still lives there.
她的丈夫在她面前被杀，当时他正试图赶走入室抢劫者。
Her husband was killed in front of her trying to fight off burglars.
她的儿子蒂内斯被绑起来，而劫匪则偷走了现金和枪支。
Her son, Tienes, was tied up while they stole cash and guns.
没有人被逮捕。
No one has been arrested.
我的整个人生都改变了。
My whole life has changed.
我没有什么可期待的。
I've got nothing to look forward to.
抱歉。
Sorry.
蒂内斯现在管理着农场。
Tienes now runs the farm.
他几乎一直随身携带武器。
He carries a weapon with him almost all the time.
我唯一不带着它的时候就是在洗澡时。
The only time I don't have it on me is when I'm in the shower.
真的吗？
Really?
因为我再也不想遇到任何让我感觉自己是受害者的情况。
Because I don't ever want another situation to arise where I feel that I'm a victim.
内尔一家聘请了私人保安，并用电网和摄像头加固了他们的财产。
The Nels have hired private security guards and fortified their property with electric fences and cameras.
许多南非人认为，他们无法依赖这个国家效率低下且不堪重负的警察来保障自身安全。
Many in South Africa feel they can't rely on the country's ineffective and overwhelmed police to keep them safe.
当你听到特朗普总统谈论种族灭绝时，你有什么想法？
When you heard President Trump talk about a genocide, what did you think?
嗯，我只是觉得他用错了词。
Well, I just thought he was using the wrong word.
在你看来，这里并不是种族灭绝？
In your opinion, it's not a genocide here?
以我所知的种族灭绝，以我听说过的种族灭绝的定义，这不算。
Not what I know as a genocide, not what I've heard of what a genocide is.
我认为我们的遭遇是一次趁火打劫式的袭击。
I see our attack as an opportunistic attack.
他们知道那里有钱。
They knew there was money.
他们知道那里有枪械。
They knew there were firearms.
白人仅占南非人口的约7%，却拥有72%的私人农业用地以及该国许多大型商业农场。
Whites make up only about 7% of the population of South Africa, but still own 72% of all privately held agricultural land and many of the country's large commercial farms.
但根据首席农业经济学家万迪利·萨洛博的说法，绝大多数农民和农场工人都是黑人。
But according to Wandili Salobo, a leading agricultural economist, the overwhelming number of farmers and those working on farms are black.
白人农场主可能在收入占比中占更大份额，但在南非经营农场的绝大多数人都是黑人。
The white farmers may have a a bigger part of the proportion of income, but the vast majority of people operating the farms in South Africa are black.
农场上存在犯罪。
There is crime on farms.
农场上发生过谋杀案。
There are murders on farms.
这些犯罪也影响着黑人农场主和白人农场主。
They affect black farmers as well as white farmers.
这些犯罪行为不仅影响黑人农民和白人农民，也影响到以黑人为主的农场工人。
They affect black farmers as well as white farmers and also farm workers who are largely black.
纳克拉拉·祖马在这块九英亩的土地上耕种了二十年。
Naklala Zuma farmed this nine acre plot for twenty years.
他早已习惯设备被盗，但在2024年，一群男子向他开枪并闯入他的家。
He was used to having equipment stolen, but in 2024, a group of men shot at him and broke into his house.
当时你有没有觉得他们会杀了你？
Did you think at the time they were going to kill you?
百分之百。
100%.
百分之百。
100%.
袭击发生后，他决定卖掉农场。
After the attack, he decided to sell the farm.
有很多黑人农民遭到袭击，
There are a lot of black farmers that are attacked,
而且这些声音还没有被听到。
and the voices are not out.
人们并不关注。
People don't pay attention.
这只是一个数字，而不是统计数据。
It's just another number, not a statistic.
南非
South
非洲是世界上最有危险的国家之一。
Africa is one of the most dangerous countries in the world.
谋杀率是美国的七倍，而大多数受害者和施暴者都是黑人。
The murder rate is seven times that of The United States, and the majority of victims and perpetrators are black.
根据警方数据，2024年这里发生了超过25,000起谋杀案。
According to police, more than 25,000 people were murdered here in 2024.
据估计，其中有37人是在农场遇害的。
It's estimated thirty seven of them were killed on farms.
25000人中的37人。
Thirty seven out of 25,000.
对我们这些农民来说，这37人太多了。
For us as farmers, that 37 is too much.
约翰·科察是一名阿非利卡人，也是南非最大农业组织的负责人。
Johan Kotza is an Afrikaner who's head of South Africa's largest agricultural organization.
这实际上并不是关于白人种族灭绝。
It's actually not about white genocide.
这是关于南非的犯罪问题。
It's about criminality in South Africa.
这正是发生在农场里的事。
That's what's happening on farms.
这同样发生在约翰内斯堡和其他主要城市的街道上。
It's what's happening in streets in Johannesburg and other major cities.
这就是犯罪。
It's crime.
这是犯罪。
It's crime.
事件发生在农场这一事实，并不会让我这个农民变得特殊。
The fact that it happened on a farm doesn't make me special as a farmer.
这太可怕了。
It's horrendous.
任何谋杀都是可怕的。
Any murder is horrendous.
去年，在外界压力下，南非警方才开始公布在农场遇害者的种族信息。
South African police only began publishing the race of those murdered on farms under pressure last year.
2025年，他们报告了六起农场凶杀案。
In the 2025, they reported six farm homicides.
五名受害者是黑人。
Five of the victims were black.
贫困是南非犯罪的最大诱因。
Poverty is the biggest driver of crime in South Africa.
那你怎么解决这个问题？
And how do you solve that?
南非仍然是世界上经济最不平等的国家之一。
South Africa remains one of the world's most economically unequal countries.
这里44%的黑人生活在贫困中，而白人只有1%。
44% of blacks here live in poverty compared to 1% of whites.
科察去年二月前往华盛顿，与政府官员讨论这里的经济问题。
Kotza went to Washington last February to talk with administration officials about the economic problems here.
他对他们关注的重点感到惊讶。
He was surprised by what they focused on.
他们问起我们关于白人种族灭绝的事，我第一反应是说，阿非利卡语才是你能得到的东西。
They asked us about the white genocide, and the first thing I said is Almas Afrikaans is what you could get.
我从小说阿非利卡语，但我从未见证过那种情况。
I grew up Afrikaans, and I never witnessed that.
南非的270万阿非利卡人是四百年前抵达非洲的荷兰移民的后裔。
South Africa's 2,700,000 Afrikaners descend from Dutch settlers who arrived on the continent four hundred years ago.
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每年，他们都在沃特克雷克纪念碑的阴影下庆祝自己的文化和语言，这座纪念碑是为象征阿非利卡人民族主义而建的。
Every year, they celebrate their culture and language in the shadow of the Voortrekker Monument, which was built as a symbol of Afrikaner nationalism.
1913年，数百万黑人南非人被强行驱逐出土地，并被法律剥夺了土地所有权。
Millions of black South Africans were forcibly evicted from their land and lost their rights to it by law in 1913.
1948年阿非利卡人掌权后，推行了种族隔离制度，这是一种残酷的种族隔离与歧视体系。
When Afrikaners took power in 1948, they instituted apartheid, a brutal system of racial segregation and discrimination.
黑人几乎没有任何权利，法律严格限制他们居住和工作的地点。
Blacks had virtually no rights and laws restricted where they could live and work.
这一切在1994年发生了改变，当时黑人南非人获得了投票权，并选举了纳尔逊·曼德拉。
That all changed in 1994 when black South Africans were allowed to vote and elected Nelson Mandela.
投票加非洲。
Vote plus Africa.
自那以来的几十年里，南非取得了进展，中产阶级黑人群体不断扩大，贫困率也有所下降。
In the decades since, there has been progress, a growing black middle class and a reduction in poverty.
但一些旨在纠正不平等的政府举措却因腐败和任人唯亲而饱受争议。
But some controversial government efforts to redress inequalities have been plagued by graft and cronyism.
我们今天在这里讨论南非。
We're here today to talk about South Africa.
美国及其他地区的白人至上主义者长期以来将阿非利卡人描绘成遭受歧视甚至更糟的种族灭绝的受害者。
White supremacists in The US and elsewhere have long portrayed Afrikaners as victims of discrimination and worse, genocide.
但这些说法直到2018年才进入主流，当时福克斯新闻主持人塔克·卡尔森开始声称阿非利卡农民正遭到杀害并被剥夺土地。
But those claims didn't go mainstream until 2018, when then Fox News host Tucker Carlson began alleging Afrikaner farmers were being killed and having their land seized.
一群处境艰难的少数农民——主要是说阿非利卡语的人——正成为一系列野蛮而恐怖的谋杀案的目标。
An embattled minority of farmers, mostly Afrikaans speaking, is being targeted in a wave of barbaric and horrifying murders.
特朗普总统随后在推文中转发了塔克·卡尔森的言论，称南非发生了大规模的农民遇害事件，政府正在从白人农民手中没收土地。
President Trump then tagged Tucker Carlson in a tweet, saying there were large scale killings of farmers in South Africa, and the government was now seizing land from white farmers.
是否存在大规模的农民遇害事件？政府是否在没收土地？
Are there large scale killings of farmers, and is the government seizing land?
这些事情并没有发生。
It is not happening.
唐纳德·特朗普被灌输了这些信息，这些链接，关于农场谋杀和种族灭绝。
Donald Trump was fed this information, this link, farm murders, genocide.
根本不存在这样的事。
There is no such a thing.
马克斯·杜普里是一位著名的阿非利卡语记者，曾任报纸编辑。
Max Dupree is a prominent Afrikaans journalist and former newspaper editor.
你是否遭受了不公正的歧视？
Are you the victim of unjust discrimination?
我从未遭受过歧视。
I've never been discriminated against.
我是个爱说爱讲的公民，因为我是个记者。
And I'm a loud mouthed citizen because I'm a journalist.
所以我表达得很强烈，也反对这个无能腐败的政府。
So I express myself very strongly, also against this inept corrupt government.
南非宪法禁止歧视，同时也保护财产权和正当程序。
Discrimination is outlawed under South Africa's constitution, which also protects property rights and due process.
但在今年一月，南非议会通过了一项土地征用法案，批评者认为这违反了宪法。
But in January, the South African Parliament approved a Land Expropriation Act, which critics say violates that constitution.
政府将征用法案与美国的征用权相比较，后者允许政府为公共用途购买私人土地。
The government compares the Expropriation Act to eminent domain in The United States, which allows it to buy private land for public use.
不同之处在于，南非的征用法案在某些情况下可能允许政府在不给予补偿的情况下征用土地，而且不仅限于公共用途，还旨在纠正过去的歧视性法律。
What's different is that South Africa's Expropriation Act could, in some cases, allow the government to take land without compensation, and not just for public use, but to redress past discriminatory laws.
土地所有者有权在法庭上反抗，但这可能需要数年时间。
Landowners have the right to fight back in court, but that might take years.
征用法案尚未生效，目前正受到南非第二大政党和非洲人权利组织AfriForum的首席执行官卡莉·克里尔的法律挑战，她多次与其他人士前往华盛顿游说争取支持。
The expropriation act isn't in effect yet, and it's being challenged in court by South Africa's second largest political party and by Kali Creel, the CEO of the Afrikaner rights group Afri Forum, who's repeatedly traveled with others to Washington to lobby for support.
财产权正面临严重威胁。
There is a serious threat to property rights.
农民的生命安全也面临严重威胁，这一点必须得到承认。
There is a serious threat to the lives of of farmers, and that needs to be recognized.
白人农民是否正因土地而被杀害？
Are white farmers being killed for their land?
是的。
Yes.
我相信是的。
I believe so.
南非正在发生针对白人的种族灭绝吗？
Is there a white genocide going on in South Africa?
我们从未使用过'白人种族灭绝'这个术语。
We've never used the term white genocide.
我们说的是有人遭受酷刑，有人被谋杀。
We're saying there are tortures, people are being murdered.
我们正在目睹对种族灭绝的呼吁。
We are seeing a call for genocide.
开枪打死。
Shoot to kill.
克里尔所谈论的种族灭绝呼吁就是这首歌。
The call for genocide Creel is talking about is this song.
杀死野猪，杀死农民。
Kill the boar, the farmer.
杀掉公猪，杀掉农民——特朗普总统曾在五月于椭圆形办公室播放过这段视频。
Kill the boar, kill the farmer, which president Trump played a video of in the Oval Office in May.
在二十世纪八九十年代，这首歌曾在反对种族隔离的抗议活动中传唱，如今仍由歌手朱利叶斯·马莱马在集会上演唱，他是一名煽动种族对立的反对派政客，主张政府没收白人拥有的土地。
In the nineteen eighties and nineties, it was sung at protests against apartheid, and it's still used at rallies by the man singing, Julius Malema, a race baiting opposition politician who wants the government to seize white owned land.
你知道他们的言论是什么吗？我们听到那些高喊‘杀掉公牛’或‘杀掉农民’的人，用同样的叙事来将阿非利卡人和农民描绘成窃贼。
You know what the rhetoric is, is that we hear the same people that chant killed the bull or killed the farmer used the narratives to try and portray Afrikaners and farmers as thieves.
在过去三十年黑人执政期间，有没有任何农民在没有获得补偿、也未通过法院程序的情况下被剥夺了土地？
Has any farmer had their land taken in the last thirty years of black rule here in this country without compensation or without having redressed through courts?
因为当时的法律不允许这样做。
Because the legislation did not allow it.
新的法律允许这样做。
The new legislation allows it.
特朗普总统在今年二月的行政命令中援引了征用法案，切断了对南非的所有援助，并允许安置逃离政府主导的种族歧视的阿非利卡难民。
President Trump cited the expropriation act in his executive order last February, cutting off all aid to South Africa and allowing for the resettlement of Afrikaner refugees escaping government sponsored race based discrimination.
第一批59名阿非利卡难民已于五月抵达。
The first group of 59 Afrikaner refugees arrived in May.
现在几乎有两千人在这里。
Now almost 2,000 are here.
你曾经想过吗？几乎唯一被允许进入美国的难民群体，竟会是白人阿非利卡人？
Did you ever imagine that virtually the only group of refugees going to be allowed in The US would be white Afrikaners?
这暴露了阿非利卡难民这一说法的荒谬性。
That shows up the complete absurdity of this Afrikaner refugee thing.
因为他们声称，这些白人阿非利卡难民的生命比世界上其他所有真正想来此地的难民更为重要。
Because they're saying, these white Afrikaner refugees, their lives are more important than the bona fide refugees from everywhere else in the world that wants to come there.
他们声称白人的生命比其他生命更有价值。
They're saying white lives are worth more than other lives.
还记得达里尔·布朗吗？那位组织了白色十字架抗议活动的农民？
Remember Daryl Brown, the farmer who organized the protests with the White Crosses?
他说他短期内不会收拾行李去美国当难民。
He says he won't be packing his bags to become a refugee in America anytime soon.
我是个非洲人。
I'm an African.
我被非洲的阳光晒伤了，我哪儿也不去。
I've been burnt by the African sun, and I'm not going anywhere.
佛罗里达阳光充足。
There's a lot of sun in Florida.
我对南非非常乐观。
I'm very positive about South Africa.
这是我的家。
This is my home.
当你思考艺术是如何创作的时，你可能会想象画家、摄影师或雕塑家沉浸在工作室的工作中。
When you think about the way art is created, you might imagine painters, photographers or sculptors immersed in their work at their studios.
但那些坐在电脑前，利用人工智能和数据创作视觉作品的人呢？
But what about a person sitting in front of a computer screen using artificial intelligence and data to create visuals?
那算艺术吗？
Is that art?
这个问题正被世界上一些最负盛名的博物馆、评论家和拍卖行提出并回答。
It's a question that is being asked and answered by some of the most prestigious museums, critics, and auction houses in the world.
一些艺术家称人工智能是一种革命性的新媒介。
Some artists call AI a revolutionary new medium.
另一些人则称之为盗窃。
Others call it theft.
我们想亲自看看，于是前往洛杉矶拜访了拉菲克·阿纳多尔。
We wanted to see it for ourselves, so we went to Los Angeles to meet Rafiq Anadol.
这位40岁的美籍土耳其艺术家被认为是人工智能艺术领域的先驱。
The 40 year old Turkish American artist is considered a pioneer in the world of AI art.
如果你想知道这个世界是什么样子，那就准备好晕车药吧。
If you're wondering what that world looks like, grab your Dramamine.
哇哦。
Is Woah.
拉菲克·阿纳多尔邀请我们进入他在洛杉矶工作室的这个空间。
Rafiq Anadol invited us inside this space at his LA studio.
我们周围的所有图像，都是阿纳多尔利用人工智能创作的。
Every image that surrounds us, Anadol created using artificial intelligence.
所以那些不是真正的鸟？
So those are not real birds?
不是。
No.
我们稍后会详细说明他是如何创作的。
We'll get to exactly how he created it in a moment.
但首先，先好好感受一下。
But first, take it in.
哇哦。
Woah.
一种迷人的形状与色彩流动，在我们周围的镜面屏幕上不断变幻和演进。
A hypnotic flow of shapes and colors that morph and evolve in the mirrors screens that surround us.
它能让你感觉像是爱丽丝误入了五十四号工作室。
It can make you feel like Alice in Wonderland stumbled into Studio fifty four.
我得说一句。
I will say this.
你站在这里之前不应该喝鸡尾酒，因为脖子上戴着一个设备，会释放出不同的人工智能生成的气味，比如雨和花香，来配合你所看到的画面。
You should not have a cocktail before standing here because All of this while a device around your neck pumps out different AI generated scents, such as rain and flowers, to accompany what you're seeing.
是的。
Yeah.
安纳多尔说，最终另一个设备将监测观众的生命体征，如心率，这些数据将用于实时改变艺术作品。
Annadol says eventually another device will monitor viewers' vital statistics, such as heartbeat, and that data will be used to change the art in real time.
这是个把戏吗？
Is this a party trick?
我不这么认为。
I don't think so.
我觉得这是一种新的艺术形式。
I feel like it's a new form of art.
就像我们在发现一个前所未有的新世界。
Like, we are discovering a new place that never been before.
如果这一切听起来有点离谱，那就想想拉菲克·安纳多尔作品的行星规模吧。
If that all sounds a bit out there, consider the planetary scale of Rafiq Anadol's work.
他的宏大而令人震撼的图像曾覆盖过拉斯维加斯的球体、洛杉矶华特·迪士尼音乐厅的外立面，以及巴塞罗那安东尼奥·戈蒂的卡萨巴迪奥。
His massive mind bending images have been stretched across the sphere in Las Vegas, the facade of the Walt Disney Concert Hall in Los Angeles, and Antonio Gotti's Casabadio in Barcelona.
当人们问你做什么工作时，你怎么回答？
When people ask you what you do, what do you say?
我是一名媒体艺术家，我的作品运用了数据和人工智能。
So I'm a media artist, and I'm using data and AI in my work.
十六年来，我一直用一支会思考的画笔作画。
So more than sixteen years, I paint with a thinking brush.
什么是会思考的画笔？
What's a thinking brush?
我相信我们周围的信息
I believe that information around us
嗯，
Uh-huh.
以及我们周围的数据，都有它们自己的声音。
And data around us has has its own voice.
但是，像绘画、素描这些我们传统上认为的艺术形式，还有雕塑，你也会做这些吗？
But, like, painting, drawing, the things we traditionally think of, sculpting, do you do any of those things?
我认为在我的脑海中，是的。
I think in my mind's eye Yeah.
所以，从技术上讲，我可能画得不太好，但在我的脑海中，我可以进行计算。
So, technically, I may not draw well, but I in my mind's eye, I can compute.
我可以从几何角度想象出脑海中究竟在寻找什么。
I can imagine geometrically what exactly the mind's eye is looking for.
为了创作艺术，安多尔使用了大量的数据。
To create art, Anadol uses data, lots of it.
对于这件作品，他使用了两亿张地球的照片。
For this piece, he used 200,000,000 photos of Earth.
来自美国宇航局的数据是这些展览背后的核心驱动力。
Data from NASA was the driving force behind these exhibits.
当我把数据当作颜料时，我认为它不需要干燥。
When I think about data as a pigment, I think it doesn't need to dry.
它可以以任何形状、形式、颜色和纹理移动。
It can move in any shape, in any form, any color, and texture.
听起来有点迷幻。
It sounds a little trippy.
这很迷幻，因为我认为作为艺术家，我们要思考现实之外的东西。
It's trippy because I think as artists, ask what is beyond reality.
我们可以把这一个和另一个连接起来。
We can connect this one to another one.
为了展示他是如何做到的，阿纳多尔拿起了一个游戏手柄。
To show us how he does that, Anadol grabbed a gaming controller.
所以，我现在正在操控这个全新的算法系统。
So we are in this new algorithm that I am literally controlling the whole system.
阿纳多尔说，他的团队为一幅关于加州风景的作品精选了1.53亿张图片。
Anadol says his team curated 153,000,000 images for a piece on California landscapes.
我们正在我们的自然数据集中飞行。
We are flying in our data set of nature.
好的。
Okay.
在这个档案中，我们有植物和动物。
So in this archive, we have flora, fauna.
每张图像都被转换为一系列数据点，用以表示其特征，如颜色、纹理和形状。
Each image is converted into a series of data points that represents its characteristics, such as color, texture, and shape.
然后这些数据点被绘制到多维空间中。
They're then plotted into multidimensional space.
这些数据就是人工智能学习的依据。
That data is what the AI learns from.
因此，当它接收到一个提示时，就能生成自己全新的版本——安多尔说，这些图像只存在于机器的思维中。
So when it receives a prompt, it can create its own new version, Images Anadol says only, quote, exist in the mind of a machine.
这不是一个真实的地方。
This isn't a real place.
确实不是。
This is not.
这是人工智能在梦中创造的世界，而我们现在正一起重塑这个世界。
This is AI dreaming this world, and now we are reshaping this world together.
安多尔随后应用特殊算法，将图像融合并形成他标志性的流动风格。
Anadol then applies special algorithms to blend and make the images into his signature fluid style.
你是一名计算机程序员，还是一位艺术家？
Are you a computer programmer or are you an artist?
我是一名艺术家，但我热爱电脑。
I am an artist, but I love computers.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
但如今有了人工智能，我觉得我已经以一种从前无法想象的方式对它进行了编程。
But now with AI, I feel like I have now programmed it in a way that I never imagined before.
这其中有多少是你驱动的，又有多少是机器驱动的？
How much of this is driven by you and how much by the machine?
这是个很好的问题，因为过去十年里，我尽最大努力实现了百分之五十机器、百分之五十人类的平衡。
So this is a great question because I tried my very best last ten years to make a 50% machine, 50% human.
将AI视为共同创作者，使拉菲克·阿纳多尔成为科技界的宠儿。
Treating AI as a cocreator has made Rafiq Anadol a darling of the tech world.
他与谷歌、麻省理工学院和微软合作，创作了大型公共装置艺术。
He's teamed up with Google, MIT, and Microsoft to create large public installations.
我们从这里开始竞拍吧。
Let's start the bidding here
他已被艺术界的一些人所接纳。
at five He's been embraced by some in the art world.
以一百一十万美元成交。
Sold at one million one.
谢谢。
Thank you.
他的作品在拍卖会上以超过一百万美元的价格售出。
Selling his pieces for upwards of a million dollars at auction.
他的作品已在世界各地的博物馆展出。
His work has been exhibited at museums around the world.
2022年，纽约现代艺术博物馆委托创作了这件作品——一座高达24英尺、占据整个MoMA大堂的大型装置，名为《无监督》。
And in 2022, the Museum of Modern Art New York commissioned this piece, a colossal 24 foot high installation that filled the MoMA lobby called Unsupervised.
当人们走进来看到《无监督》时，公众反应如何？
How did the public react to unsupervised when they came in
然后看到
and saw
它？
it?
这简直是一场非凡的轰动。
It was a utter extraordinary, hit.
人们坐在它前面数小时， literally 被他们所看到的画面深深吸引。
People sat in front of it for hours, literally transfixed by what they were seeing.
这是一幅惊人的画作。
It's an amazing painting.
格伦·洛瑞担任MoMA馆长长达三十年。
Glenn Lowry was the director of the MoMA for three decades.
他于九月退休。
He retired in September.
为了创作《Unsupervised》，Lowry告诉我们，Rafiq Anadol 使用了MoMA整个收藏品的公开元数据训练了一个AI系统。
To create unsupervised, Lowry told us Rafiq Anadol trained an AI system on the publicly available metadata of the entire MoMA collection.
可以把元数据看作每件作品的数字DNA。
Think of metadata as the digital DNA of each piece.
它描述并识别了这些艺术作品。
It describes and identifies the art.
Anadol利用MoMA的元数据重新构想了二百年的艺术史。
Anadol used MoMA's metadata to reimagine two hundred years of art.
他编写了一些算法，使得一个对象的数据能够演化成另一个对象的数据，进而变成第三个或第四个前所未见的对象。
Wrote some algorithms that allowed the data from one object to evolve into the data of another object to become yet a third object or a fourth object never before seen.
我认为人们觉得这非常令人满足。
And I think people found it deeply satisfying.
这是馆藏中最受欢迎的图像之一。
It's one of the most popular images in the collection.
研究表明，通常参观者欣赏一幅杰作的时间约为28秒。
Studies have found that typically, museum visitors spend about twenty eight seconds looking at great works of art.
对于《无监督》这件作品，阿纳多尔说观众平均停留了38分钟。
For unsupervised, Anadol says it was thirty eight minutes.
但并非所有人都如此着迷。
But not everyone was quite so enamored.
这就像一个让人移不开眼睛的巨大 lava lamp（油灯）。
It's like a giant lava lamp that you can't take your eyes off of.
杰里·萨尔茨是《纽约杂志》的普利策奖获奖艺术评论家。
Jerry Saltz is the Pulitzer Prize winning art critic for New York Magazine.
这就像一个电子涂鸦板。
It's like an Etch A Sketch.
他称《无监督》为一个价值五十万美元的屏幕保护程序。
He called unsupervised a half million dollar screensaver.
当人们涌来时，溅起水花
Splashing into When people came
人们进来后看着它，看了整整38分钟。
in and they looked at this, they looked at it for 38 minutes.
这难道不是成功的标志吗？
Isn't that the sign of success?
受欢迎并不意味着成功。
Popularity is not the sign of success.
你在一件艺术品前停留的时间长短，并不能说明成功，真正重要的是你是否愿意静下心来，直面内心的不适，适应那些不舒服的状态，并向自己提出问题。
How long you spend with a work of art is not a sign of success so much as your willingness to get quiet within yourself, go to uncomfortable places, become comfortable in those places, asking yourself questions.
面对拉菲克·阿多纳尔的作品，你会坐下来，陷入一种恍惚状态，根本不需要多想。
In front of a Rafiq Adonal, you sit down, go into a stupor, and you don't have to think much.
你会说：哦，一幅画看起来有点像雷诺阿，接着慢慢变成像毕加索的样子，再变成一个变形虫。
You go, Oh, there goes a painting that looks a little like Renoir morphing into one that looks like Picasso, morphing into an amoeba.
这至少是值得一看的东西。
It's something to look at.
这是艺术吗？
Is it art?
人工智能是艺术。
AI is art.
人工智能将成为艺术。
AI will be art.
但萨尔茨认为人工智能还有很长的路要走。
But Saltz says AI has a long way to go.
人工智能才诞生一天，我们就已经在讨论它了。
AI is one day old, and we're already having conversations.
我讨厌它。
I hate it.
你喜欢它。
You love it.
它很好。
It's good.
它很糟糕。
It's bad.
这是新的。
It's new.
这是年轻的。
It's young.
谢丽尔，你在AI中看到的大部分东西都是垃圾。
Most of what you see in AI, Sharon, is crap.
垃圾。
Crap.
90%是垃圾，但文艺复兴时期创作的艺术品中也有90%是垃圾。
90% crap, but 90% of the art made during the Renaissance was also crap.
事情需要时间。
Things take time.
我认为必须认识到
I think one has to recognize that
那些挑战你的艺术作品，最初总会被许多人误解。
works of art that challenge you are always going to be misunderstood by many at first.
莫梅思·格伦·劳里表示，人们对人工智能的怀疑态度，类似于两百年前摄影术刚出现时的反应。
-Mometh Glenn Lowry says the skepticism around AI mirrors the reaction to the advent of photography two hundred years ago.
当人类之手突然不再参与图像的创作时，这意味着什么？
-When suddenly the human hand is removed from the making of an image, what does that mean?
我认为人工智能与此类似，但我认为你无法阻止技术的发展。
And I think artificial intelligence is analogous to that, but I don't think you can stop technology.
莫莉·克雷布普尔是一位居住在纽约的艺术家和作家。
Molly Crabapple is a New York based artist and author.
她认为人工智能不应被接纳进艺术界。
She does not think AI should be welcomed into the art world.
你曾称这是历史上最大的艺术盗窃案。
You've called this the greatest art heist in history.
是的。
Yes.
为什么？
Why?
当我们谈论艺术盗窃时，通常指的是从博物馆偷走一两幅画，最多三幅。
Well, when we talk about art heist, typically, we're talking about one painting being taken from a museum, two, three.
他们窃取了数十亿张图像。
They stole billions and billions of images.
克雷布普尔认为，博物馆、画廊和拍卖行不应在未经原艺术家同意的情况下购买或展示由他人作品训练出的AI艺术。
Crabapple says museums, galleries, and auction houses shouldn't buy or display AI art trained on other artists' work without their consent.
她将这类流行的AI艺术生成器称为企业级剽窃机器人，这些工具允许用户输入提示语，瞬间生成引人注目、有时甚至超现实的图像。
She calls the popular AI art generators like this, which let users type in a prompt to create striking, sometimes surreal images, corporate plagiarism bots.
她说，这些生成器是通过从网络上抓取的艺术作品进行训练的，其中包括她的作品。
She says they're trained on art scraped from the web, including hers.
这是克雷布普尔绘制的叙利亚阿勒颇的插图。
This is an illustration Crabapple did of Aleppo, Syria.
当我们要求一个AI图像生成器以莫莉·克雷布普尔的风格创作一幅叙利亚天际线的画作时，它在几秒钟内就生成了这张图。
When we asked an AI image generator to create a drawing of a Syrian skyline in the style of Molly Crabapple, it made this in seconds.
极其相似。
Strikingly similar.
有人问过你吗，嘿。
Did anyone ever ask you, hey.
我们可以把你的图片输入这个系统吗？
Can we feed your images into this system?
绝对不可能。
Certainly not.
没有任何艺术家被征询过同意。
No artist has been asked for their consent.
没有任何艺术家获得过补偿。
No artist has received compensation.
事实上，我们连署名都看不到。
In fact, we don't even see credit.
AI公司告诉立法者，他们的行为属于合理使用，这是一种允许在特定情况下未经许可使用受版权保护作品的法律原则。
The AI companies have told lawmakers that what they're doing falls under fair use, a legal doctrine which allows copyrighted works to be used without permission under certain circumstances.
他们声称AI正在像人类一样学习和研究。
They claim AI is studying and learning just like a human would.
但一群艺术家已经对四家制作艺术生成器的AI公司提起了集体诉讼，指控它们侵犯版权等行为。
But a group of artists has filed a class action lawsuit against four of the AI companies that make art generators, accusing them of copyright infringement among other things.
有些艺术家称，使用这些图像就是盗窃。
There are some artists that have called using these images theft.
是的。
Mhmm.
你对此怎么看？
What do you say to that?
我完全同意我所有艺术家朋友的观点。
I completely agree with all my artist friends.
我明白他们的意思。
I know what they mean.
作为一名艺术家，我只使用自己的数据。
And as an artist, I only use my own data.
拉菲克·阿纳多尔告诉我们，自2020年以来，他只使用他所谓的合乎道德的数据库。
Can Rafiq Anadol told us since 2020, he's only worked with what he calls ethically sourced datasets.
你这话是什么意思？
What do you mean by that?
所以，这是用人工智能创作艺术最重要的部分。
So this is the most important part of art making with AI.
这需要大量的团队合作、深入的思考和研究。
It takes a lot of teamwork, a lot of thinking, research.
我们总是从获得许可开始。
We always start with permission.
是的。
Yeah.
然后我们就能确切知道信息的来源。
Then we know exactly where information comes from.
这件事已经筹备多久了？
How long has this been in the works?
我觉得
I think
现在，安多尔正在洛杉矶市中心建造一座占地20,000平方英尺的博物馆，名为DataLand，专门展示人工智能艺术。
Now, Anadol is building a 20,000 square foot museum dedicated to AI arts in Downtown Los Angeles called DataLand.
表面。
Surface.
这里的屏幕会有多大？
How big will the screens be
在这里？
in here?
一个巨大的画布，用来庆祝他对科技的乐观态度。
A massive canvas to celebrate his optimism about technology.
安多尔坚持认为，人工智能并非威胁，而是一种工具，能够创造出人类独自无法完成的艺术。
Anadol insists AI is not a threat, but a tool to create art no human could create alone.
有些人认为，人工智能永远无法真正创作出艺术，因为它缺乏情感。
There are some people that say AI can never truly create art because it lacks emotion.
它缺乏亲身经历，也缺乏意图。
It lacks lived experience, and it lacks intent.
是的。
Yes.
我认为这些都是对的。
These are all, I think, true.
这就是为什么我相信人类的合作使命。
That's why I believe human mission collaboration.
我们正在真正搭建起这座桥梁，我认为这正是人类未来的方向，确保它被正确地完成、公平地分享，并庆祝这个充满想象力的新时代。
We are really completing that bridge where I feel like most likely where we are going as humanity and just be sure that it's done right and it's shared right and celebrate this new age of imagination.
迈克·阿鲁齐奥尼创造了美国体育史上最大的冷门之一。
Mike Aruzzioni delivered one of the greatest upsets in American sports history.
作为1980年美国奥运冰球队的队长，阿鲁齐奥尼率领一支业余球队对阵强大的苏联队，并打进了制胜一球。
As captain of the '19 eighty US Olympic hockey team, Aruzioni led a squad of amateurs against the mighty Soviet Union and scored the game winning goal.
我们请他回顾四十六年前今天这场冰上奇迹的启示。
We asked him to reflect on the lesson of that miracle on ice forty six years ago today.
我认为，我们球队在1980年赢得奥运金牌、击败苏联队——一支世界上没人认为我们会赢的队伍——所展现的教训，正是我们国家伟大的最好例证。
I think the lesson that our team showed in 1980 by winning an Olympic gold medal, by beating the Soviets, a team that nobody in the world thought we could beat, is a great example of what makes our country so great.
根据我们的教练布鲁克斯的说法，我们是一群穿着工作服、戴安全帽的普通人。
Per Brooks, our coach, called us a lunch pale hard hat group of guys.
我们这些人每天准时上班，卷起袖子，努力做到最好。
The guys who came to work every single day, rolled up our sleeves, striving to be the best that we could be.
我认为，当你回顾过去二百五十年的国家历史时，你会看到类似的时刻——尽管面临挑战，尽管没人相信我们能成功，但我们依然找到了实现目标的方法。
And I think when you look back on two fifty years in our country, you've seen moments like that where despite the challenges, despite the fact that nobody thinks we can achieve something, you find a way to do it.
在1980年，我们正需要一些值得自豪的事情，而这件事恰好发生在我们身上。
In 1980, we were looking for something to feel good about, and it happened to be us.
恰好是我们这支队伍，以及与我们相关的人们。
It happened to be our team and people related to that.
直到今天，仍有人来找我，说：我记得我们赢球时我人在哪儿。
People come up to me to this day and they'll say, I remember where I was when we won.
我总是回应：我们？我不知道你也是队员啊。
I always go, We, I didn't know you were on the team.
但这就是那个时刻的意义所在。
But that's what that moment meant.
如果你相信某件事，并愿意为之努力，你就一定能实现它。
If you believe in something and you're willing to work for it, you can't accomplish it.
我们的团队正是这一点的体现。
Our team exemplified that.
我是塞西莉亚·维加。
I'm Cecilia Vega.
我们下周一再见，带来另一期《60分钟》。
We'll be back next week with another edition of sixty Minutes.
我想了解世界上正在发生的事情。
I want to know what's going on in the world.
如果你只是坐在椅子上读别人发现的东西，那是做不到的。
You can't do that if you're just sitting in a chair reading about what other people have found.
你必须走出去，去倾听。
You have to get out there and listen.
通过让人们彼此了解，你实际上将这个国家凝聚在了一起。
By telling people about each other, you actually bring this country together.
我们所有人都在问一些重大的问题。
There are big questions that all of us are asking.
我想为你找到答案。
I wanna get you the answers.
我是托尼娅·德科帕尔。
I'm Tonya DeCopal.
请收看CBS晚间新闻，和我一起。
Join me on the CBS Evening News.
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