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今晚，随着美国和以色列对伊朗的袭击持续进行，伊朗反对派最著名的领导人告诉我们，他认为德黑兰政权正在崩溃，他希望领导这一过渡。
Tonight, as US and Israeli strikes on Iran continue, the most prominent leader of the Iranian opposition tells us he believes the regime in Tehran is collapsing, and he wants to lead the transition.
你已经离开国家近五十年了。
You have been out of the country for nearly fifty years.
为什么人民会想要你？
Why would the people want you?
当法官约翰·库纳尔阻止特朗普总统终止出生公民权的企图时，他并没有预料到接下来会发生什么。
When judge John Kuhnauer blocked president Trump's bid to end birthright citizenship, he wasn't prepared for what happened next.
死亡威胁？
Death threats?
是的，当然。
Oh, yes.
是的，当然。
Oh, yes.
几十条之多。
Dozens of them.
几十个，甚至上百个。
Dozens, if not hundreds.
他是去年遭受严重威胁的400名联邦法官之一，这一数字自2021年以来增长了78%。
He's one of 400 federal judges who were targets of serious threats last year, a 78 jump since 2021.
如果我们不加小心，迟早会有法官被杀。
If we're not careful, we're gonna get a judge killed.
四年前，一名枪手在底特律以北约40英里的牛津高中开枪行凶。
Four years ago, a gunman opened fire at Oxford High School about 40 miles north of Detroit.
我儿子给我发短信说，他们正在开枪射击。
My son's texting me and saying they're shooting you.
好的。
Okay.
现在我
Now I'm
要让
gonna let
他被判处终身监禁。
He was sentenced to life in prison.
但检察官认为，他并不是唯一该受责备的人。
But prosecutors argued he wasn't the only one to blame.
你认为他的父母辜负了他吗？
Do you think his parents failed him?
是的。
Yes.
这个孩子在各个层面都寻求过帮助，但他没有得到，于是他做出了可怕的事。
This kid was asking for help at every level, and he didn't get it, and he did something horrible.
我是莱斯利·斯塔尔。
I'm Leslie Stall.
我是斯科特·佩利。
I'm Scott Pelly.
我是比尔·惠塔克。
I'm Bill Whitaker.
我是安德森·库珀。
I'm Anderson Cooper.
我是莎伦·阿尔方西。
I'm Sharon Alfonsi.
我是塞西莉亚·维加。
I'm Cecilia Vega.
我是约翰·韦尔海姆。
I'm John Wertheim.
这些故事，以及在最后一分钟，一位以散文书写美国身份的伟大诗人。
Those stories and, in our last minute, a great poet with prose on being an American.
今晚，《60分钟》。
Tonight on sixty Minutes.
美国和以色列对伊朗各地的目标进行了第二天的打击。
The United States and Israel conducted a second day of strikes on targets across Iran.
伊朗最高领袖已被杀。
Iran's supreme leader has been killed.
德黑兰已对以色列、邻国以及该地区的美军基地发动了导弹袭击。
Tehran has retaliated with missile attacks on Israel, neighboring countries, and US military bases in the region.
至少有三名美国军人丧生。
At least three American service members have been killed.
斯科特·佩利正在巴黎跟进事件进展，包括伊朗接下来可能的动向。
Scott Pelly is in Paris following events, including what could be next for Iran.
今晚，伊朗反对派中最著名的人物表示，他认为伊朗政权正在崩溃，并希望领导一场让伊朗对世界更安全的过渡。
Tonight, the most prominent member of the Iranian opposition says he believes the Iranian regime is collapsing, and he would like to lead a transition that makes Iran safe for the world.
65岁的雷扎·巴列维是伊朗前国王或沙阿的儿子，这位国王于1979年被革命者和强硬派伊斯兰教士推翻。
65 year old Reza Pahlavi is the son of the former king or shah of Iran who was deposed in 1979 by revolutionaries and hardline Islamic clerics.
在1979年革命那年，巴列维年仅18岁，当时正在德克萨斯州的拉伯克生活，美国空军正在那里训练他成为一名战斗机飞行员。
In that year of revolution, Pahlavi was 18 years old and living in Lubbock, Texas, where the US Air Force was training him to be a fighter pilot.
他再也未能回国。
He was never able to go home.
他已在海外流亡四十七年，大部分时间居住在美国。
He has lived in exile forty seven years, mostly in The United States.
但今晚，他在巴黎，我们问他是否想当国王，伊朗对以色列和核武器的政策应该是什么。
But tonight, he's in Paris, where we asked him if he wants to be king, what Iran's policy should be toward Israel and nuclear weapons.
我们采访开始时提到了一个新闻：伊朗最高领袖哈梅内伊在战争初期被杀。
We started our interview with the news that the supreme leader of Iran, Ayatollah Khamenei, had been killed in the opening hours of the war.
这无疑是一件震撼世界的大事，因为当人们将整个政权的暴虐本质归结于这个最邪恶的代表时，一旦这个人物消失，人们就会感到无比振奋。
It is definitely a a a sort of earth shattering event in the sense that when people identify the entire monstrosity of the regime that is depicted ultimately by the chief monster of these monsters, when he's gone, the minute such a personality disappears, it's like elation.
就像在说：天啊，终于发生了。
It was like, Oh my God, it has finally occurred.
也许这就是了。
Maybe this is it.
现在是我们的机会了。
This is our chance now.
你称他为怪物。
You call him a monster.
你是什么意思？
What do you mean?
我的意思是，自从这个政权上台以来，有多少伊朗人的生命丧失了？
Well, I mean, since this regime has taken over, how many Iranians' lives have been lost?
我认为，在伊朗历史上，至少在当代伊朗，从未有过像这个政权下如此规模的暴行。
I don't think we can have an example of such level of atrocity ever in the history of Iran or at least contemporary Iran that has occurred under this regime.
这一切都是因为阿里·哈梅内伊执意并坚持维持自己及其黑手党政权的权力，不惜以伊朗人民的生命为代价。
And this is all because of Ali Khamenei's insistence and persistence to keep himself and his mafia regime in power at the expense of the Iranian people.
我不知道他还能如何描述，除非说他们确实是字面意义上的恶魔。
I don't know how else can he depict it other than being true monsters in the real sense of the word.
今年一月，伊朗人涌上街头。
This past January, Iranians poured into the streets.
波拉比鼓励他们，数十万人走上街头游行。
Polabi urged them on, and hundreds of thousands marched.
政权开枪打死了约两万名公民。
The regime gunned down an estimated 20,000 citizens.
这场大屠杀是战争的前奏。
The massacre was a prelude to war.
这是在伊斯法罕市宣布阿亚图拉去世后当晚拍摄的视频。
This is video overnight after the announcement of the death of the Ayatollah in the city of Isfahan.
这对你意味着什么？
What does that mean to you?
这意味着我们终于准备好重返街头了，尽管我曾提醒他们，目前最好照顾好自己的安全，待在家里。
That means that finally we are ready go back to the streets, even though I have cautioned them that for now, you better take care of your own safety and stay at home.
总会有重返街头的时刻。
The time will come to go back on the streets.
但即便如此，你还是能看到，人们依然勇敢地喊出：去他的吧。
But then again, you see that despite that, people still are brave enough to say to hell with it.
因为对我们来说，这是解放。
Because to us it's liberation.
对我们而言，这就像一次人道主义干预，以保护那些本可能继续丧失的生命。
To us it's like a humanitarian intervention to protect lives that could otherwise be continued to be lost.
当人们看到这个注定会崩溃的政权走向终结时，这给了伊朗人民一个真正的契机，无论是否有人干预。
It gives the Iranian people a real opportunity now when they see the end of this regime that was always bound to collapse, whether there was an intervention or not.
我想确保你的观众明白，我们早已准备好投入这场斗争。
I want to make sure your audience understand that, that we were prepared to fight the fight.
我们和这个政权之间流的血太多了。
There was too much blood between us and this regime.
无论外部是否干预，我们都决心战斗到底。
We were committed to fight regardless of outside intervention.
他们正在感谢特朗普总统信守承诺并付诸行动。
They're thanking president Trump for actually standing on his word and acting upon his word.
你真的相信这个政权在近五十年后会垮台吗？
Do you actually believe this regime could fall after almost fifty years?
当然。
Of course.
雷扎·巴列维王子告诉我们，他希望领导伊朗实现民主过渡。
Prince Reza Pahlavi told us he wants to lead Iran in a transition to democracy.
你并不想当国王。
You don't wanna be king.
我没有参选公职的打算。
I'm not running for office.
我没有。
I'm not.
你是说在这次采访中，你不会领导伊朗吗？
Are you saying in this interview that you wouldn't lead Iran?
那是另一回事。
That's a different thing.
他们信任我作为过渡时期的领导人，而不是未来的国王、总统或其他任何身份。
They trust me as the transitional leader, not as the future king or future president or future whatever.
我全心专注于我的人生使命，那就是让国家达到一个可以自由做出选择的阶段。
I'm totally focused on my mission in life, which is let me bring the country to a point that they can make that free choice.
只要完成这一使命，我就心满意足了。
That will be enough for me having said mission accomplished.
你想象一下与以色列实现和平。
You imagine peace with Israel.
当然。
Of course.
在现代历史上，伊朗实际上在第二次世界大战期间为逃离纳粹的犹太人提供了庇护，让他们在伊朗获得 refuge 和安全。
In modern history, Iran actually gave refuge to Jews that were escaping the Nazis during the Second World War, giving them refuge and sanctuary in Iran.
与以色列建立伙伴关系的战略重要性至关重要。
The strategic importance of having a partnership with Israel is critical.
您将基于哪些原则来建设一个全新的伊朗？
What are the principles on which you would build a new Iran?
我认为，今天将我们团结在一起的有四大核心原则，这些原则正是我们如何共同努力实现这一目标的关键。
I think what today unites us are four core principles that I think is the subject of how we can work together towards that end.
第一是伊朗的领土完整。
Number one is Iran's territorial integrity.
第二是宗教与国家的明确分离，这是民主的先决条件，我们为此付出了代价，深刻理解了生活在宗教专制下的含义。
Number two is the clear separation of religion from state, is a prerequisite to democracy, and we pay the price understanding what it means to live under a religious dictatorship.
第三，当然是所有公民在法律面前的平等以及个人自由。
Number three is, of course, equality of all citizens under the law and individual liberties.
最重要的是，通过一个民主程序，让人民选举并决定他们未来的治理体制。
And most importantly, the process, a democratic process, to allow the people to elect and decide what their future system of governance should be.
核武器计划会怎样？
What would happen to the nuclear weapons program?
我认为应该彻底拆除。
I think it should be totally dismantled.
我认为伊朗没有必要将核计划军事化。
I don't think Iran has any need to pursue a military weaponizing of the nuclear program.
巴列维的父亲是最后一位国王。
Palavi's father was the last king.
穆罕默德·礼萨·巴列维与美国关系密切，但他残酷镇压反对派，并慷慨地赐予亲信巨额财富。
Mohammed Reza palavi was close to The United States, but he brutally suppressed opposition and showered friends with lavish wealth.
1979年，他在政治紧张局势加剧中离开伊朗，一位强硬的宗教学者霍梅尼从流亡中返回，领导了一场革命。
In 1979, he left Iran amid rising political tension, and a hardline cleric, Ayatollah Khomeini, returned from exile to lead a revolution.
伊朗人指责美国支持国王，革命者攻占了德黑兰的美国大使馆，扣押了52名美国人长达444天。
Iranians blamed The US for supporting the king, and revolutionaries overran the US embassy in Tehran and held 52 Americans hostage for four hundred and forty four days.
你父亲的统治以压迫和奢华财富而被铭记。
Your father's reign is remembered for repression and opulent wealth.
我不明白，你为何认为人们现在会欢迎你。
And I wonder why you believe the people would welcome you now.
嗯，你知道，这或许只是其中一种说法。
Well, you know, that's perhaps one narrative.
但当你回顾那些当时生活在那个时代的人们时，
But when you look at a lot of people who were at the time living that era,
他们告诉我，你知道吗？
they were telling me, you know what?
我们清楚自己曾经身处何地，又如今在何处。
We recognize where we were and where we are now.
而今天，我们想与你站在一起。
And today we want to be with you.
我们支持你。
We support you.
我们支持你。
We back you.
当时那些被称为监狱的地方，臭名昭著、压迫性十足，不管你怎么称呼，那里关押着许多人。
And there were people who were in those so called prisons that were notorious or repressive or whatever you call.
他们在上一届政权下被监禁。
They were imprisoned under the previous regime.
人们被杀害了，你看。
People were killed Look.
在你父亲的
In your father's
你看。
Look.
我父亲为了避免流血而自愿离开了伊朗。
My father left Iran voluntarily to avoid bloodshed.
他说，他说，我是个国王。
And he said, he said, I'm a king.
国王不会用自己人民的鲜血来建立王座。
A king doesn't build his throne on the blood of his own people.
如果今天的国民希望我离开，我会走。
If the nation today wants me out, I would leave.
我不会调转枪口对准他们。
I will not turn my guns on them.
你已经离开国家将近五十年了。
You have been out of the country for nearly fifty years.
为什么人们会想要你？
Why would the people want you?
如果他们真觉得这是个问题，我不认为会有数百万人在伊朗的街头呼喊我的名字。
If they thought that was an issue, I don't think they'll be calling my name by the millions on the streets of Iran.
我认为人们信任我的部分原因，是因为他们无法将我与这场革命或这个政权有任何关联。
I think that part of the reason people trust me only is because they cannot associate me in any way or form to the revolution or to be part of this regime.
今天走上街头的那些人，那些被这个政权枪杀和屠杀的年轻孩子们，正是这样一代人，他们回头问自己的父母：你们当时到底在想什么？
The very same people who today are in the streets, all the young kids that are getting shot and massacred by this regime, are a generation that turns to their parents and tell them, What the hell were you thinking?
当时怎么会疯狂地认为霍梅尼这个人会成为我们的解决方案和通往自由的道路？
What was that madness to think that this Khomeini character is going to be our solution and our path to freedom?
看看我们现在到了什么地步。
And look at where we are now.
但从我离开的那一天起，我就从未真正离开过伊朗。
But from the day I left, I never left Iran.
伊朗始终萦绕在我生命的每一年，每天早上醒来，我脑海里第一件事就是伊朗。
Iran had been on my mind every single year of my life, every single when I wake up in the morning, the first thing that is in my mind is Iran.
巴列维告诉我们，他与特朗普政府和国会议员保持着联系。
Pahlavi told us he is in touch with the Trump administration and members of congress.
你对特朗普总统有什么话要说？
What is your message to president Trump?
我给特朗普总统的讯息是：我在这里代表并呼应数百万在伊朗境内和境外的同胞，感谢他做出了艰难却勇敢的干预之举。
My message to president Trump is that I'm here to echo and join millions of my compatriots inside and outside of Iran to thank him for having done and having the courage to do what is not easy, but intervene.
他将载入伊朗历史，成为最受赞誉的外国领导人，改变了游戏规则，改变了世界
And he will go down in the annals of Iranian history as the most celebrated foreign leader that changed the ballgame and changed the world as
结果。
a result.
今年一月，特朗普总统对您说了这样的话。
In January, president Trump said this about you.
他说：他看起来很不错，但我不知道他在自己国家能否胜任。
Quote, he seems very nice, but I don't know how he'd play within his own country.
我不知道他的国家是否会接受他的领导。
I don't know whether or not his country would accept his leadership.
当然，如果他们会接受，我也完全没问题。
And certainly, if they would, that would be fine with me.
你似乎并没有得到特朗普总统的全力支持。
You don't seem to have president Trump's wholehearted support.
首先，我认为像我这样的人，从来不会期待得到外国政府或外国领导人的正式支持。
Well, first of all, I don't think that somebody in my position will ever expect to to have an official endorsement of a foreign government or a foreign leader.
我
What I
我现在知道，数百万在伊朗境内和境外的伊朗人正在呼唤我的名字。
do know now is that millions of Iranians inside Iran and outside of Iran are calling my name.
他们认识到，我是唯一合适的人选，能够发挥过渡性领导作用——我不是为了竞选公职，因为那不是我在做的事，而是成为通向这一命运的桥梁。
They recognize in me the person uniquely placed to play a role of transitional leadership, not running for office because that's not what I'm doing, but to be a bridge to that destiny.
几个月来，动荡一直在加剧。
Unrest has been building for months.
去年六月，美国和以色列军队袭击了伊朗的核设施。
Last June, US and Israeli forces attacked Iran's nuclear facilities.
2022年，爆发了近五十年来规模最大的一次起义。
And in 2022, one of the largest uprisings in the nearly fifty year history of the regime erupted.
伊朗的道德警察逮捕了一名22岁的女性，指控她未戴头巾。
Iran's morality police arrested a 22 year old woman, accusing her of failing to cover her hair.
她在拘留期间死亡，民众走上街头，要求推翻政权。
She was killed in custody, and crowds moved into the streets to demand an end to the regime.
安全部队杀害了500多人，逮捕了22000人，并切断了互联网。
Security forces killed more than 500, arrested 22,000, and blacked out the Internet.
直到今天，大部分民众内心一直充满愤怒。
Much of the population has been seething right through today.
当你看到我们如今在街头所见证的勇气时，我不禁想知道这让你有何感受。
When you see the courage on the streets that we're witnessing now, I wonder how that moves you.
我认为这是英雄主义的终极定义。
I think it's the ultimate definition of heroism.
你还记得那位独自站在天安门广场、挡在坦克前的中国学生吗？
Do you remember that lone Chinese student in Tiananmen Square standing in front of that tank?
我记得那个画面。
I remember that image.
让我给你另一个在互联网上广泛传播的影像。
Let me give you another visual that has been going viral on the cyberspace.
那位几天前在街头抱着受伤者、却遭枪杀的消防员。
That firefighter who was carrying a wounded person that was shot on the streets just a few weeks ago, and they shot him to death.
那个画面，我以此为例。
That image, you know, I exemplify that.
目睹这一切是极其震撼的。
It's a tremendous thing to witness.
波拉比告诉我们，军方和警方中有一些单位已向他表明，他们将倒戈反对强硬政府。
Polaby told us there are units in the military and police who have signaled to him that they would turn on the hardline government.
他说，许多士兵，但并非全部，都可能在国家和解过程中获得赦免。
He says many, but not all troops could be given amnesty in a process of national reconciliation.
事实上，这将明确表明，现在是他们做出决定的时刻。
And in fact, it will be a clear indication that this is the time for them to make a a decision.
你是想这一次与人民站在一起，还是想与
Do you wanna join this time with the people, or do you want to stand with
这艘沉船站在一起？
the sinking ship?
这次采访有可能突破互联网封锁，我想知道你对伊朗人民想说些什么。
It's possible that this interview will penetrate the Internet blackout, and I wonder what you say to the Iranian people.
相信你们自己。
Have faith in yourselves.
你们是一个拥有古老文明的民族。
You are a nation with an ancient civilization.
我知道你们为自己传承的文化感到多么自豪，伊朗对所有人来说多么重要。
I know how proud you are of your heritage, how important Iran is to all of them.
我总是对他们说，你知道吗？
And I always said to them, I say, you know what?
我知道你们一直期盼着更美好的未来。
I know you're always hoping for a better future.
我希望你们开始做的，是不再只是期盼，而是真正相信这一切能够实现——他们已经开始回应我的呼吁。
What I would like you to start doing, and they have started to answer my call, is instead of hoping, start believing that it can be done.
五十年来一直报道伊朗。
Five decades of covering Iran.
他称你们为伊玛目，原谅我，这话不是我说的，说你们是疯子。
He calls you Imam forgive me, his words not mine a lunatic.
你们就像一名中情局调查员。
You are like a CIA investigator.
前往 60minutesovertime.com 查看《60分钟》的档案。
Go inside the sixty Minutes archive at 60minutesovertime.com.
为了
For
多年来，《Gone South》一直是一档关于美国南部犯罪的播客。
years, Gone South has been a podcast about crime in the American South.
但对于我们新的季度，我们将扩大视角。
But for our new season, we're widening the lens.
通过深入调查、以叙事为主的故事，我们正在挖掘那些至今仍塑造着南部乃至在许多方面塑造着整个国家的神话、丑闻和权力结构。
Through deeply reported narrative driven stories, we're digging into the myths, scandals, and power structures that still shape the South and, in a lot of ways, the country itself.
立即关注并收听《Gone South》第五季，这是一档奥德赛式播客，现已在苹果播客、Spotify 或您常用的任何平台上线。
Follow and listen to Gone South season five, an odyssey podcast, available now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your shows.
当最高法院最近推翻了特朗普总统的关税政策时，他抨击了两位他亲自提名的大法官，称他们是傻瓜和走狗。
When the Supreme Court recently struck down president Trump's tariffs, he lashed out at two justices he had nominated, calling them fools and lapdogs.
总统经常在法官作出不利于他的裁决时猛烈抨击他们。
The president has frequently railed against judges when they rule against him.
接下来通常会发生的是，他的追随者对这些法官展开大规模的暴力威胁。
What often happens next is a barrage of violent threats from his followers against those judges.
我们采访了26位联邦法官，其中9位由民主党任命，17位由共和党任命，包括在职和退休的法官。
We spoke with 26 federal judges, nine Democratic appointees, 17 Republican, both sitting and retired.
在职法官告诉我们，他们感觉自己正遭受围攻。
The sitting judges told us they feel under siege.
大多数法官因担心自身安全而不愿出镜。
Most would not appear on camera fearful for their safety.
由罗纳德·里根任命的约翰·库纳尔法官是少数愿意出镜的人之一。
Judge John Kuhnauer, appointed by Ronald Reagan, is one of the few who would.
他曾阻止特朗普总统终止出生公民权的企图。
He blocked president Trump's bid to end birthright citizenship.
他没有预料到接下来会发生什么。
He wasn't prepared for what happened next.
我和妻子正在家里，突然门铃响了。
My wife and I are at home, and, the doorbell rings.
我走到门口，发现有五名 sheriff 的警员拿着长步枪站在那里。
And I go to the door, and there's, I think, five sheriff's deputies there with long rifles.
他们拿着枪出现的？
And they show up with guns drawn?
是的。
Oh, yeah.
是的，是的。
Yes, yes.
长枪，非常吓人的枪。
Long guns, very intimidating guns.
他们对我说：先生，我们能见见您的妻子吗？
And they said to me, sir, could we see your wife?
我问：为什么？
And I said, whatever for?
他们说：先生，我们接到报告，说您谋杀了您的妻子。
And they said, well, sir, we've had a report that you've murdered your wife.
这是一场残酷的恶作剧。
It was a cruel hoax.
第二天，又出现了炸弹威胁。
The next day, a bomb threat.
对于华盛顿州的联邦地区法院法官约翰·库纳尔来说，事情并未就此结束。
For John Kuhnauer, a federal district court judge in Washington state, it didn't end there.
有一位国会议员贴出了通缉海报。
There was a congressman that had a wanted poster.
海报顶部用大字写着‘通缉’，下面是我们几人的照片。
It said wanted in big letters at top and then a picture of several of us.
上面什么都没写，就是没写‘死活不论’。
It said everything except dead or alive.
他的
His
麻烦始于特朗普总统签署了一项行政命令，旨在终止第十四修正案对非公民在美国境内所生婴儿的公民权保障。
trouble started when president Trump signed an executive order to end the fourteenth amendment's guarantee of citizenship for infants born on US soil to noncitizens.
库纳尔法官裁定该命令明显违宪。
Judge Kuhnauer ruled it, quote, blatantly unconstitutional.
威胁信接踵而至。
The threats poured in.
其中一些内容非常非常恶劣且充满威胁。
Some of it was very, very ugly and very threatening.
死亡威胁？
Death threats?
是的，当然。
Oh, yes.
是的，当然。
Oh, yes.
几十条之多。
Dozens of them.
几十条，甚至上百条。
Dozens, if not hundreds.
库纳尔法官告诉我们，威胁是这份工作的一部分。
Judge Kuhnauer told us threats come with the turf.
他曾判处过一名基地组织炸弹客和蒙大拿民兵组织成员，需要24小时保护，但他表示，从未像在出生公民权案中那样收到如此多的死亡威胁。
He has sentenced an Al Qaeda bomber and Montana militia members and needed round the clock protection, but he said he'd never had as many death threats as with the birthright citizenship case.
我已经从事这份工作四十四年了。
I've been at this for forty four years.
我从未见过像过去一年里美国对司法系统如此敌视的情况。
I have never encountered the hostility toward the judiciary that has existed in this country in the the last year.
我认为这并不是因为我们做出了错误的判决。
And I don't think it's because we're making bad decisions.
我认为这是因为有些人觉得，通过攻击联邦司法系统能获取大量政治利益。
I think it's because, there are people who think that they can make a lot of political hay out of criticizing the federal judiciary.
而且，我们不能允许一小撮共产主义激进法官阻碍我们法律的执行，僭越本应由美国总统专属的职责。
And also, we cannot allow a handful of communist radical f judges to obstruct the enforcement of our laws and assume the duties that belong solely to the president of The United States.
当特朗普总统在法庭上输掉遣返移民的案件时，他称那位法官是个疯子。
When president Trump lost a battle in court to deport migrants, he called the judge a lunatic.
当移民 crackdown 被裁定为非法时，他称这些法官是怪物。
When immigration crackdowns were ruled illegal, he called the judges monsters.
正是这类煽动性的言论引发了大量死亡威胁。
It's incendiary comments like that that have provoked a torrent of death threats.
我们的调查发现，数百条威胁留言被留在法官的语音信箱中，其中一条是在一名法官裁定总统违反了第一修正案之后。
Our reporting found hundreds of threats were left on judges' voice mails, this one after a judge ruled the president had violated the First Amendment.
我希望你全家以及你爱的每个人都在你面前被强奸，然后被砍下头颅。
I hope your whole family and everybody you love is raped in front of you and has their heads cut off.
这条留言是在一名法官裁定总统无权削减某些政府福利之后留下的。
And this one after a judge ruled the president couldn't cut certain government benefits.
我真希望有人去刺杀你这个混蛋。
And I wish somebody will assassinate your ass.
这是一场火山般的仇恨喷发。
It's a volcano of vitriol.
你竟敢胆敢试图对唐纳德·J·特朗普提起指控？
How double dare you to try to put charges on Donald j Trump?
你这个混蛋。
You son of a bitch.
美国法警负责识别可能引发暴力行为的言语威胁。
It falls to the US marshals to pinpoint the verbal threats that might lead to physical violence.
法官告诉我们，法警已经不堪重负。
Judges told us the marshals are overwhelmed.
去年，有400名联邦法官遭遇了严重威胁，四年间增长了78%。
Last year, 400 federal judges were targets of serious threats, a 78% jump in four years.
用最直白的话说，如果我们不加小心，迟早会有法官被杀。
In in very plain English, if we're not careful, we're gonna get a judge killed.
情况就是这么严峻。
It's that stark.
事情就是这么严重。
It's that serious.
事情就是这么严重。
It's that serious.
约翰·琼斯法官是来自宾夕法尼亚州的已退休联邦法官，由乔治·W.
Judge John Jones is a retired federal judge from Pennsylvania, a George W.
布什任命。
Bush appointee.
他和另外55名退休法官非常担忧，于是成立了一个两党小组，游说白宫停止污名化法官。
He and 55 other retired judges were so concerned, they formed a bipartisan group to lobby the White House to stop demonizing judges.
这是一个极其有毒的环境，人们甚至持械，并能查到法官的住址，进而对法官或其家人下手。
This is such a toxic environment where people are taking arms and can identify where a judge lives, can strike out against that judge or the judge's family members.
所以当特朗普总统攻击法官是叛逆的、疯狂的、腐败的时。
So when president Trump attacks judges as rogue, deranged, corrupt.
你觉得他在做什么？为什么？
What do you think he's doing and why?
我认为他试图削弱联邦法院的合法性。
I think that he's attempting to delegitimize federal courts.
他为什么
Why would he
为什么要这么做？
do that?
对他有什么好处？
What's the benefit to him?
这就像一个加强版的总统任期。
It's a presidency on steroids.
我认为，美国国会现在非常懈怠，而总统却意图亲自定义法律是什么。
You have a very dormant, I think, United States Congress and a president who means to really say what the law is.
公民课教会我，国会制定法律，总统则忠实地执行国家的法律。
Well, civics taught me that congress makes the law and the president, faithfully executes the laws of the country.
我们现在把这一切完全颠倒了。
We've turned that on its head right now.
好的。
Okay.
我们就在这里签字。
We'll sign right here.
好了吧？
Alright?
琼斯法官告诉我们，这个白宫正在试探总统权力的边界。
Judge Jones told us this White House is testing the bounds of presidential power.
白人权力。
White power.
今天，特朗普政府正面临600起诉讼，这些诉讼质疑其从移民到裁员的各项政策。
Today, the Trump administration is facing 600 lawsuits contesting its agenda from immigration to job cuts.
法官们正身处风暴中心。
Judges are caught squarely in the crossfire.
作为一名宣誓维护宪法、捍卫法治的法官，我有责任指出这一点。
As a judge who has taken an oath to uphold the Constitution and defend the rule of law, I have a duty to call this out.
这就是我为什么要和你们谈话。
That's why I'm talking to you.
伊斯特·萨拉斯法官是新泽西州的联邦地区法院法官。
Judge Esther Salas is a federal district court judge in New Jersey.
她是奥巴马任命的法官，已成为反对针对法官个人攻击的领军人物，也因此成为死亡威胁的目标。
A Barack Obama appointee, she has become a leading voice against the personal attacks on judges, which has made her the target of death threats.
她深知其中的利害。
She knows the stakes.
2020年，一名败诉者来到她家门口，开枪射杀了她的儿子丹尼尔，并重伤了她的丈夫马克。
In 2020, a failed litigant came to her front door, shot her son, Daniel, dead, and wounded her husband, Mark.
这起事件并非由政治动机驱动，但她担心如今煽动性的言辞会使此类恐怖事件更有可能发生。
It was not driven by politics, but she fears today's inflammatory rhetoric makes such horrors more likely.
我现在比儿子被谋杀后更加担忧。
I'm more concerned right now than I was after my only child was murdered.
为什么？
Why?
因为我认为对司法系统的攻击正在愈演愈烈。
Because I think that the attacks against the judiciary are only getting worse.
我如今看到的情况与过去截然不同。
What I'm seeing now is far different than what I've seen in the past.
这股风气是从我们的国家领导人开始向下蔓延的。
This is coming from our national leader on down.
萨拉斯法官告诉我们，诋毁法官正在削弱公众对法院的信任。
Judge Salas told us vilifying judges is eroding trust in the courts.
如果你不同意我们做出的裁决，就上诉我们。
If you disagree with a ruling that we make, appeal us.
如果你不同意我们判处的刑罚，就上诉我们。
If you disagree with a sentence we render, appeal us.
答案不是把我们去人性化。
The answer is not to dehumanize us.
我认为，最近这已经成为一种明确的议程。
And that has been, I think, the active agenda as of late.
我感觉，有时候我们的政治领导人是在拿我们的生命玩俄罗斯轮盘赌。
I feel like sometimes our political leaders are playing Russian roulette with our lives.
你觉得这种言论会助长人们的行动吗？
Do you think the rhetoric emboldens people?
是的。
I do.
我认为这很危险。
I think it's dangerous.
白宫在一份声明中表示，作为两次暗杀企图的幸存者，没有人比特朗普总统更了解政治暴力的危险。
In a statement, the White House said, as a survivor of two assassination attempts, no one understands the dangers of political violence more than president Trump.
声明还指责司法部门通过非法裁决公然违抗。
It went on to accuse the judiciary of brazen defiance with its unlawful rulings.
这些激进法官，副司法部长托德·布兰奇称之为
These activist judges Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche called it
一场战争。
a war.
我们经常因为地方法官根本不遵守法律而遭到暂缓执行或推翻判决。
We are routinely getting stays and getting reversals because of of local judges just not following the law full stop.
这些法官可能不是同一批人，但确实有一群法官反复出现，这显然不是偶然的。
And and it's the same judges or not the same judges, but it's there's a group of judges that are repeat players, and that's obviously not by happenstance.
这是有意为之的。
That's intentional.
这是一场战争，老兄。
And it's a it's a war, man.
托德·布兰奇拒绝了我们的采访请求。
Todd Blanche declined our request for an interview.
他在给我们的声明中表示，一些法官继续发布范围过广甚至缺乏理由的禁令，但威胁和恐吓联邦官员是非法的。
In a statement to us, he said some judges continue to issue overbroad and even unreasoned injunctions, but adding threats and intimidation of federal officials is unlawful.
约翰·库纳尔法官告诉我们，宪法是法官的指南针。
Judge John Kuhnauer told us the constitution is a judge's north star.
所以，对于那些说你是在试图阻挠总统目标的政治代理人，你会说
So to someone who says that you are a political agent in trying to thwart the goals of the president, you would say
我会说你根本不了解我们的工作。
I would say you don't understand what we do.
我们只是在适用宪法。
We apply the constitution.
在过去二百五十年里，这个国家一直是由法官来裁定某项政策是否合宪。
For the last two hundred and fifty years in this country, it's been the judges that that say this is either constitutional or it isn't.
如果没人愿意做出这个决定，没人去执行宪法，那么宪法就会变得像俄罗斯的宪法一样。
If if nobody's gonna make that decision, nobody's gonna enforce the constitution, it becomes, like the constitution of Russia.
这些威胁并非只来自右翼。
The threats aren't just coming from the right.
2020年，参议院少数党领袖查克·舒默警告称，最高法院大法官尼尔·戈萨奇和布雷特·卡瓦诺将因限制堕胎而付出代价。
In 2020, senate minority leader Chuck Schumer warned that Supreme Court justices Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh would, quote, pay the price for restricting abortion.
他后来为此道歉了。
He later apologized.
2022年，一名企图刺杀卡瓦诺大法官的嫌疑人在其家中被捕。
In 2022, a would be assassin was arrested for trying to kill justice Kavanaugh at his home.
但法官琼斯——一位共和党任命的法官——告诉我们，右翼的暴力言辞无人能及。
But judge Jones, a Republican appointee, told us the violent language of the right has no match.
来自双方的全国性言论可能随着时间推移变得更加恶劣。
The national rhetoric from both sides has probably gotten worse over time.
然而，我不会承认民主党或民主党官员的行为与本届政府对待联邦司法系统的方式有任何相似之处。
However, I would not concede that the Democratic Party or or that Democratic officeholders have conducted themselves in any way that similar to what this administration is doing with respect to the federal judiciary.
根本没有任何证据支持这种说法。
There's simply no evidence of that.
当你查看这个数据库时，里面是数百名民选官员和法官的姓名和地址。
And when you look at the database, it's names of the addresses of hundreds of elected officials and judges.
罗恩·扎亚斯是Ironwall公司的首席执行官，这家公司负责从网上清除法官的个人信息。
Ron Zayas is the CEO of Ironwall, a company that scrubs judges' personal data from the web.
所以，这是我们面临的另一项针对法官的威胁。
So here's another threat that we have toward a judge.
扎亚斯告诉我们，在十四年的从业经历中，他从未见过像今天这样多的暴力威胁。
Zayas told us in fourteen years he has never seen as many violent threats as today.
你知道，如果你向一百万人传播这种信息，只需要其中一人付诸行动就够了。
You know, if you broadcast that message to a million people, you just need one to act on it.
而这正是法官们今天必须面对的可怕之处。
And that's the terrifying part the judges are having to deal with today.
扎亚斯还会浏览那个阴暗的绞刑架网站。
Zayas also combs through the Look dark at the gallows.
天啊。
My god.
这是一个网络上的犯罪温床，匿名威胁者试图造成现实世界的伤害。
A criminal haven on the Internet where anonymous threat actors try to cause real world harm.
如今，扎亚斯担心一种新型威胁。
These days, Zayas is worried about a new type of threat.
过去的威胁是：你判我败诉，我就要杀了你。
The threats used to be, you ruled against me, and I wanna kill you.
现在我们看到的威胁完全不同，有人公开表示：我想影响你的判决。
Now the kind of threats we're seeing, there's a whole other sphere of saying, I wanna influence what you do.
这是一种群体狂热。
It's mob mentality.
他们想威胁你，让你做出‘正确’的决定。
They wanna threaten you so that you make the right decision.
法警还在调查一种新型的恐吓手段。
The marshals are also investigating a striking new form of intimidation.
全美各地的法官及其子女收到了数百个未经请求的披萨，这看似普通的配送却传递着不祥的讯息。
Hundreds of unsolicited pizzas sent to judges and their children across the country, an innocuous delivery with an ominous message.
我们知道你住在哪里。
We know where you live.
我们知道你的孩子住在哪里。
We know where your children live.
你希望落得和萨拉斯法官的儿子一样的下场吗？
And do you want to end up like Judge Salas' son?
至少有20个披萨是以萨拉斯法官已故儿子的名义寄给霍姆斯的。
At least 20 were sent to Holmes in the name of Judge Salas' late son.
订购单上写着我被杀害的儿子的名字。
The order form had my murdered son's name on it.
他们正在把我的小儿子当作武器。
They're weaponizing my baby boy.
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他们利用丹尼尔的名字来恐吓法官。
They're weaponizing Daniel's name to inflict fear on judges.
我知道这很令人震惊，但一定非常痛苦。
I know that's shocking, but it must be so painful.
你知道吗，那一次真的击中了我。
You know, that one took me.
而且更让人气愤的是，我至今还没看到司法部长或副司法部长站出来谴责这种恐吓行为。
And you add to that for flavor that I have yet to see the attorney general or the deputy attorney general stand at a podium and denounce these forms of intimidation.
司法部长帕姆·邦迪也拒绝了我们的采访请求。
Attorney General Pam Bondi also declined our request for an interview.
萨拉斯法官等许多人告诉我们，法治正面临威胁。
Judge Salas, among many others, told us the rule of law is at stake.
我坐在这里，作为丹尼尔的母亲。
I sit here as Daniel's mom.
我坐在这里，作为一个失去唯一孩子的母亲。
I sit here as a woman who lost her only child.
马克和我经历了地狱般的磨难。
Mark and I have been to hell and back.
当我看到我们的政治领袖和当权者表现出这种不负责任的行为时，我感到非常难过。
And when I see that kind of irresponsible behavior coming from our political leaders and people in power, it makes me sad.
这让我非常担忧，因为我担心我们的民主制度。
And it makes me very worried because I worry for our democracy.
我真的非常担心。
I really do.
自1999年科罗拉多州哥伦拜恩高中大屠杀以来，美国各地学校已发生84起大规模枪击事件。
Since the nineteen ninety nine Columbine High School massacre in Colorado, there have been 84 mass shootings at schools across The United States.
每一场悲剧都格外惨烈。
Each tragedy is uniquely horrific.
但立法者们的反应却令人沮丧地可预测。
But the response from lawmakers has become frustratingly predictable.
只有哀悼、党派言论，最终却无所作为。
Condolences, partisan rhetoric, and ultimately, inaction.
因此，我们注意到一些检察官是如何处理这些案件的。
Which is why we took note of how some prosecutors are pursuing these cases.
他们不仅仅是把枪手关进监狱。
They're not just putting the gunmen behind bars.
他们开始追究枪手父母的责任。
They're starting to hold the shooter's parents responsible.
在过去两周里，一名被指控的高中大规模枪击案嫌犯的父亲在佐治亚州巴罗县受审。
For the past two weeks, the father of an accused high school mass shooter has been on trial in Barrow County, Georgia.
那里的检察官认为，他在2024年其子袭击阿巴拉契亚高中之前忽视了诸多警示信号，这场悲剧导致福特死亡。
Prosecutors there argue that he ignored red flags about his son before the teen shot up Appalachia High in 2024, a tragedy that left Ford dead.
这并不是第一次有家长被送上法庭。
It's not the first time the parent has been put on trial.
今晚，我们将关注来自密歇根州牛津郡的具有先例意义的案件，并探讨追究父母责任是否足以打破校园枪击暴力的循环。
Tonight, we'll look at the precedent setting case out of Oxford, Michigan, and ask whether holding parents accountable is enough to break the cycle of school shooting violence.
今天这里发生了一起活跃枪手事件。
We have an active shooter here today.
四年前，在一个寒冷的十一月天，一名枪手在底特律以北约40英里的牛津高中开枪行凶。
Four years ago, on a cold November day, a gunman opened fire at Oxford High School, about 40 miles north of Detroit.
我儿子给我发短信说，有人正在朝他开枪。
My son's texting me and saying they're shooting at me.
好的，女士。
Okay, ma'am.
我先挂了。
I'm gonna let you go.
一名15岁的学生手持一把九毫米手枪在走廊上开枪，导致四名同学死亡。
A 15 year old student walked the halls armed with a nine millimeter handgun, killing four schoolmates.
其中包括16岁的泰特·米尔，一位才华横溢的运动员和学生导师，以及14岁的汉娜·斯。
Among them, 16 year old Tate Meer, a star athlete and student mentor, and 14 year old Hannah St.
朱莉安娜，刚进入高中一年级才三个月。
Juliana, just three months into her freshman year.
汉娜是一束明亮的光。
Hannah was a bright light.
让人发笑，我认为是大多数人对她记忆最深的地方，她的笑容和笑声。
Making people laugh is, I think, what most people remember about her, her smile and her laugh.
泰特对生活有着疯狂、疯狂又令人惊叹的热情。
Tate had a crazy, crazy, awesome zest for life.
他是个了不起的灵魂。
He was an incredible soul.
这给社区带来了沉重的打击。
It's hit the community hard.
巴克·缪尔和史蒂夫·斯。
Buck Muir and Steve St.
朱莉安娜一家如今加入了越来越多的家庭行列，这些家庭的孩子都在校园枪击案中丧生。
Juliana now find themselves on a growing list of families whose children have been killed in school shootings.
作为一个国家，我们如何才能避免这种情况再次发生？
How are we doing as a country, moving towards this not happening again?
我们并没有朝着这个方向前进。
We're not moving in that direction.
是的，我们正在倒退
Yeah, we're going backwards
在Yep。
at Yep.
该
The
你为什么这么说？
Why do you say that?
在立法层面所做的改变，比如增加心理健康支持、加强枪支管控，现在都被逆转了。
Changes that have been made at legislative level, trying to add more mental health support, more gun control, it's all being reversed.
我们似乎并不想从他们身上吸取教训，你知道吗？
We don't seem to be wanting to learn from them, you know?
我觉得我们需要转向预防。
I feel like we need to get in prevention.
预防措施本可以保护牛津高中学生免于这一时刻。
Prevention might have protected Oxford High students from this moment.
几个月来都出现了警告信号。
There were red flags for months.
检察官表示，枪手伊森·克伦布利曾多次给母亲发短信，说他在家里看到了恶魔。
Prosecutors say the gunman, Ethan Crumbly, had texted his mother on multiple occasions that he saw demons in the family home.
在枪击事件前三个月，他在发短信说该去学校开枪后，向朋友保证自己只是在开玩笑。
Three months before the shooting, he assured a friend he was just kidding after he texted that it's time to shoot up the school.
在袭击发生前的24小时内，他的异常行为加剧了。
In twenty four hours before the attack, his troubling conduct escalated.
根据检察官和法庭证词，以下是发生的事情。
According to prosecutors and court testimony, here's what happened.
一位老师通过电子邮件通知管理人员，她看到这名二年级学生在课堂上浏览不同类型的子弹。
A teacher emailed administrators that she saw the sophomore looking at different bullets online in class.
一名学校管理人员给男孩的母亲留了语音留言。
A school administrator left a voice mail for the boy's mother.
她没有回复，但后来给儿子发了条短信：‘哈哈，我不生气。’
She didn't respond, but later texted her son, l o l, I'm not mad.
你得学会别被抓住。
You have to learn not to get caught.
第二天早上，在枪击发生前几个小时，另一位老师向校方报告，这名青少年的数学作业纸上画着一把枪、一颗子弹和一个流血的人，并写着‘想法停不下来’。
The next morning, just hours before the shooting, another teacher alerted administrators that the teen's math worksheet had drawings of a gun, a bullet, and a person bleeding along with the words, the thoughts won't stop.
帮帮我。
Help me.
到处都是血。
Blood everywhere.
他被带到辅导老师的办公室，他的父母也被叫来了。
He was taken to a guidance counselor's office, and his parents were called in.
辅导老师作证说，他建议接受心理治疗，并建议克伦普一家带儿子回家，但他们以工作为由拒绝了。
The counselor testified that he recommended therapy and suggested the Crumplies take their son home, but they refused, citing work.
这次会面只持续了十二分钟。
The meeting lasted just twelve minutes.
他们离开后，他回到了教室。
They left, and he went back to class.
他的背包从未被检查过。
His backpack was never checked.
两小时后，监控录像显示，这名15岁少年走进洗手间，从背包里掏出一把枪，进入走廊并开始射击。
Two hours later, surveillance video shows the 15 year old walked into the bathroom, pulled a gun out of that backpack, entered the hallway, and started shooting.
警察在洗手间地板上发现了他的日记，里面详细记录了他想要射杀同学的欲望和计划。
Police found his journal on the bathroom floor detailing his desire and plan to shoot up his classmates.
后来，调查人员得知，在袭击发生前三天，他的母亲曾带他去射击场，使用那把九毫米手枪，这把枪是他父亲作为提前的圣诞礼物为他购买的。
Later, investigators learned that just three days before the attack, his mother had taken him to a shooting range with that nine millimeter handgun, which his father had purchased for him as an early Christmas present.
你认为他的父母辜负了他吗？
Do you think his parents failed him?
是的。
Yes.
我认为当时已经有很多明显的警示信号，足以让他们意识到他正处于危机之中。
I think there was plenty of red flags there for them to be aware that he was in crisis.
但他们对此的回应却是给他买枪并带他去射击，而这项活动本身并没有什么问题。
And their answer to that was to go buy him a gun and take him shooting, which there's nothing wrong with that activity in and of itself.
但当面对一个处于危机中的孩子，你的回应却是这样，那就是个问题。
But when that's your answer to a child in crisis, that's a problem.
我永远不会原谅他，对吧？
I'll never forgive him, right?
这个孩子在各个层面都在寻求帮助，但他没有得到，于是他做出了可怕的事。
But this kid was asking for help at every level, and he didn't get it, and he did something horrible.
你是否自愿认罪？
Is it your own choice to plead guilty?
是的，先生。
Yes, sir.
他认罪了所有指控，并被判处终身监禁。
He plead guilty to all charges and was sentenced to life in prison.
但检察官认为，他并不是唯一该受责备的人。
But prosecutors argued he wasn't the only one to blame.
他的父母各自被裁定犯有四项过失致人死亡罪，原因是未能妥善保管枪支，并忽视了儿子心理健康危机的预警信号。
His parents were each convicted of four counts of involuntary manslaughter for failing to secure the gun and ignoring the warning signs of their son's mental health crisis.
我相信，以下判决最符合正义的要求。
I believe that the following sentences would be in the best interest of justice.
他们被判处至少十年监禁。
They were sentenced to at least ten years in prison.
这是全国首次有父母因子女实施的大规模校园枪击案而被追究刑事责任。
It is the first time that parents anywhere in the country have been held criminally responsible for a mass school shooting committed by their child.
我们的社会拒绝采取重大措施来保护我们的孩子。
Our society refuses to take significant action to protect our children.
因此，我们唯一能将责任归咎的地方就是父母。
So one of the only places that we can put this back onto are the parents.
真正令人遗憾的是，当你思考这起枪击事件和责任归属时，只有枪手和父母被追究了责任。
What's really unfortunate here is when you want to think about this shooting and accountability, Only the shooter and the parents have been held accountable.
学校没有任何责任追究。
There's been no accountability at the school.
学校是否应该承担一些责任？
Should the school bear some responsibility?
当然。
Absolutely.
我的意思是，他们本来就是做孩子相关工作的。
I mean, they're in the business of kids.
我的意思是，那个孩子当时在心理咨询室里。
I mean, the kid was in a counseling office.
他明显处于危机状态。
He was obviously in crisis.
他几乎已经把枪拿在手里了，而心理咨询室却处理得一塌糊涂。
He basically already had a gun in his hand, and the counseling office fumbled it.
受害者对学校官员和学区提起的诉讼已被驳回，理由是密歇根州的政府豁免法，该法律保护公共机构及其员工免受诉讼。
Victims' lawsuits against school officials and the district have been dismissed, citing Michigan's government immunity laws, which protect public entities and their employees from being sued.
豁免权导致了无所作为。
Immunity is driving inaction.
是的。
Yeah.
执法部门说，我们不想浪费时间做调查，因为他们有豁免权。
Law enforcement says, well, we don't want to waste our time doing the investigation because they've got immunity.
检察官也是这样。
Prosecutors are the same way.
他们不想起诉或尝试起诉，因为一上来就遇到豁免权的问题。
They don't want to prosecute or try to prosecute because, well, they're coming up against immunity.
那还何必呢？
So why bother?
那还何必呢？
So why bother?
这就是我们如今的处境。
And that's where we've gone.
我的意思是，我们一直努力争取才让这个调查得以进行。
I mean, we fought consistently just to have this investigation done.
我猜会有人认为，学校已经人手紧张了。
I imagine that there will be people who say, The schools are already stretched thin.
他们对有问题的孩子也无能为力。
They don't have the ability to do much with a kid who's in trouble.
我们不能让他们逍遥法外。
We can't let them off the hook.
这件事本可以避免。
This was preventable.
学校枪击案后，没有任何全国性标准。
There are no national standards after a school shooting.
也没有联邦强制要求各州进行审查或调查。
No federal mandates for state reviews or investigations.
通常情况下，只有当事件被认定为恐怖袭击或仇恨犯罪时，联邦调查局才被要求介入调查。
Typically, the FBI is only required to investigate if it's considered an act of terror or a hate crime.
在社区持续数月的压力下，牛津学区委员会聘请了一家名为Guidepost的私人安保公司进行独立调查。
After months of pressure from the community, the Oxford School Board hired a private security firm called Guidepost to conduct an independent investigation.
但这条路径充满了障碍。
But that path was full of roadblocks.
Guidepost没有法律权力强制他人作证。
Guidepost doesn't have the legal authority to compel testimony.
因此，在他们要求访谈的161人中，Guidepost报告称约有70人拒绝或未作回应，其中包括两名在事件发生数小时前与枪手会面的学校员工。
So of the 161 people they asked to interview, Guidepost reported that approximately 70 refused or would not respond, including two school employees who met with the shooter hours before the incident.
该学区告诉我们，许多教职员工已在法庭程序中提供了证词。
The district told us that many staff members had given depositions in court proceedings.
但根据Guidepost的说法，这些访谈并未完全解答他们所有的疑问。
But according to Guidepost, those interviews didn't fully address all of their questions.
Guidepost得出结论，牛津高中的教师们在发现异常后立即提出担忧，行为得当。
Guidepost concluded the teachers at Oxford High acted appropriately by immediately raising concerns.
Guidepost的调查人员批评学校未遵循既定的威胁评估程序，并指出这场悲剧本可避免。
Guidepost investigators faulted the school for not following established threat assessment protocols, writing this tragedy was avoidable.
密歇根州总检察长办公室表示，目前正展开调查。
The Michigan attorney general's office says it is now investigating.
发生了一起大规模枪击事件
A mass shooting occurred
詹姆斯·登斯利和吉莉安·彼得森是犯罪学教授，也是位于明尼苏达州圣保罗的非营利组织‘暴力预防项目’的创始人，该组织致力于研究大规模枪击事件。
James Densley and Gillian Peterson are professors of criminology and founders of the Violence Prevention Project, a Saint Paul, Minnesota based nonprofit that studies mass shootings.
你想一想9·11事件之后我们学到的所有经验，以及由此建立起来的整个反恐基础设施和体系。
You think about all the things that were learned after nine eleven and how that created an entire infrastructure and an apparatus around dealing with terrorism.
但在应对大规模枪击问题上，我们却没有看到同样的紧迫感。
We don't see that same type of urgency with the mass shooting problem.
相反，我们只得到一些‘想法和祈祷’。
Instead, we get sort of thoughts and prayers.
我们陷入了一种境地，把不完美的解决方案彼此对立，因为没人能就任何事达成一致。
We get a situation where we pit off imperfect solutions against each other because no one can agree on anything.
而这导致了没有任何实际行动的局面。
And then that creates a situation where there's no action.
因此，缺失的是那种明确的行动——我们可以制定一个模板，让所有人都能遵循。
So what is missing is that definitive action where we can create a template that everybody else then follows, suit.
我们采访过的一个家伙
One of the guys we interviewed
登斯利和彼得森在过去十年中研究了数百起大规模枪击事件，采访了认识枪手的人以及枪手本人，希望更好地理解他们走向暴力的路径以及如何阻止他们。
Densley and Peterson have spent the last ten years researching hundreds of mass shootings, interviewing those who knew the gunmen and also the shooters themselves, hoping to better understand their pathways to violence and how to stop them.
从数据中浮现出了什么模式？
What's the pattern that emerged from the data?
我们发现，这些枪手在童年早期就经历了严重的暴力或忽视，家庭中存在家庭暴力，这为他们后来的行为奠定了基础。
We saw an early childhood with a lot of pretty significant violence or neglect, domestic violence in the home that kind of laid the foundation.
你们有没有问过这些大规模枪手：‘有人本可以阻止你吗？’
Did you ever say to any of these mass shooters, could somebody have stopped you?
这是一个问题
That was one
我每次都会问这个问题。
of the questions I asked every time.
有没有人或什么事本可以阻止你？
Is there anyone or anything that could have stopped you?
我们交谈过的每个人都说：‘有。’
And every person we talked to said yes.
其中一个人甚至说，我觉得任何人都能阻止我。
One of them even said, I think anyone could have stopped me.
他们的研究表明，超过90%的校园大规模枪手在实施暴行前，都在网上或当面散布过他们的计划。
Their research shows that over 90% of all school mass shooters broadcast their plans online or in person before they commit the atrocity.
调查人员表示，佛罗里达州帕克兰、
Investigators say the gunmen in Parkland, Florida
朝窗户开枪。
Shoot in the windows.
德克萨斯州乌瓦尔德以及佐治亚州温德的阿巴拉契亚高中枪手，都在袭击前向他人透露过他们的意图。
Uvalde, Texas, and Appalachia High in Winder, Georgia all told people about their intent before the attacks.
他们感到绝望，感到孤立，并渴望获得关注。
They're feeling hopeless, and they feel isolated, and they're looking for that notoriety.
他们想被看见，不管多么扭曲。
They wanna be seen no matter how dysfunctional.
不管多么扭曲，被看见总比不被看见好。
No matter how dysfunctionally, it's better than not being seen.
通常在校园枪击事件后，你会看到更多的金属探测器、透明书包和演练。
Often you see after a school shooting, more metal detectors, clear backpacks, and drills.
如果学校获得这类应急资源来让他们的
If a school is given this kind of emergency resources to make their
孩子更安全，这是否
kids safer, is that
是最好的使用方式？
the best use of them?
这不是最好的使用方式。
It's not the best use of them.
而所有这些安保措施最终都显得像是作秀。
And all of that security ends up being kind of theatrical.
对吧？
Right?
至少能让你感觉好一些。
Like, makes you feel better maybe.
但如果施暴者是学生，这些措施根本不起作用。
But if a student is the perpetrator, it doesn't do anything.
因此，你最好把资源花在像团队协作、校内心理健康服务、危机干预和自杀预防这样的事情上。
And so you're better off spending resources on things like teams that communicate with each other, School based mental health, crisis intervention, suicide prevention.
数据能证明这一点吗？
And the data bears that out?
数据一次又一次地证明了这一点。
The data over and over again bears that out.
我们预防暴力最好的做法不是把孩子推开。
The best thing we can do to prevent violence is not to push kids out.
而是真正地把他们拉近。
It's to actually pull them in.
他们可能已经
They've probably been
研究人员是明尼苏达州一项试点计划的一部分，该计划旨在教导学校教职员工如何识别处于危机中的孩子并为他们提供支持服务。
The researchers are part of a pilot program in Minnesota designed to teach school staff how to identify kids in crisis and wrap them up with services.
2022年乌瓦尔德事件之后
In 2022, after Uvalde
同意
The motion to concur with
国会通过了一项两党共同支持的法案，其中包括为学校提供十亿美元的心理健康服务拨款。
Congress passed a bipartisan bill that included a billion dollars in grants for mental health services at schools.
但去年四月，大部分资金被终止了。
But last April, the majority of that funding was discontinued.
教育部解释称，这些项目与政府的优先事项相冲突。
The Department of Education explained the programs conflicted with administration's priorities.
去年十二月，它拨出了800万美元用于资助有资质的学校心理健康服务提供者，仅为原资金的一小部分。
In December, it awarded $2.00 $8,000,000 for credentialed school mental health providers, a fraction of the original funding.
必须做出改变了。
Something has to change.
我的意思是，枪支暴力是美国儿童的头号杀手。
I mean, gun violence is the number one killer of our children in America.
而我们当前的社会似乎把头埋在沙子里，拒绝承认这一点，只是说：哦，这就是现状。
And our society currently seems to have its head in the ground, refusing to acknowledge this, just saying, Oh, it's the way it is.
不，这个答案太荒谬了。
No, that's a ridiculous answer.
这并不是什么无法克服的难题。
This is not something that is insurmountable.
我们完全可以取得巨大进展，防止此类事件再次发生。
We can make great strides to prevent this from happening again.
但我们就是没有这么做。
We just aren't.
《60分钟》的最后一分钟。
The last minute of sixty Minutes.
有六位诗人曾在美国总统就职典礼上朗诵诗歌，包括罗伯特·弗罗斯特和玛雅·安吉洛。
Six poets have read at a US presidential inauguration, including Robert Frost and Maya Angelou.
阿曼达·戈尔曼在乔·拜登就职典礼上朗诵她的诗《我们攀登的山丘》时年仅22岁。
Amanda Gorman was 22 when she read her poem The Hill We Climb at Joe Biden's inauguration.
当国家庆祝独立二百五十周年之际，我们问戈曼：成为美国人意味着什么？
As the nation celebrates two hundred and fifty years of independence, we asked Gorman, what does it mean to be an American?
当我思考成为美国人的意义时，我真心认为这不仅仅是与生俱来的自豪感。
When I think about what it means to be an American, I truly believe it's more than a pride we inherit.
而是我们所踏入的过去，以及我们如何修复它。
It's the past we step into and how we repair it.
这意味着，成为美国人不仅仅是铭记我们的历史。
Meaning that being an American is more than just remembering our history.
而是如何治愈它。
It's how we heal it.
而是如何恢复。
It's how we recover.
而是如何对自己负起责任，成为最好的自己。
It's how we hold ourselves accountable to being the best that we can be.
我的美国故事的一部分，是作为奴隶的后裔，这让我明白，自由、平等和 liberty 不是我们可以理所当然享受的东西。
Part of my American story is being someone who's descended from slaves and how that informs my own American hood is it teaches me that freedom, equity, liberty are not just things we can take for granted.
它们必须被争取、保护和珍惜。
They must be fought for, protected, and cherished.
因此，作为美国人，我的权利、角色和责任不仅是热爱自己的自由，也要热爱并捍卫他人的自由。
And so my rights and my role and responsibility as an American is both to love my own freedom, but to love and defend it for other people as well.
要铭记昨天，并始终自豪地走向明天。
It's to remember yesterday and always walk pridefully into tomorrow.
我是约翰·韦尔海姆。
I'm John Wertheim.
我们下周将带来《60分钟》的另一期节目。
We'll be back next week with another edition of sixty Minutes.
许多简短的每日新闻播客只关注一个故事。
A lot of short daily news podcasts focus on just one story.
但如今，你可能需要更多内容。
But right now, you probably need more.
在NPR的《上头条》节目中，我们每天为您带来全球三大头条新闻，时长不到十五分钟，因为任何一个故事都无法涵盖我们这个庞大而纷繁的世界在每一天所发生的全部大事。
On up first from NPR, we bring you three of the world's top headlines every day in under fifteen minutes because no one story can capture all that's happening in this big crazy world of ours on any given morning.
立即收听NPR的Up First播客。
Listen now to the up first podcast from NPR.
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