布兰妮·斯皮尔斯 – “有毒”

我说这话是因为我这行就是靠夸大其词过活的。

And I say that as someone who overstates things for a living.

布兰妮在1998年夏末开始在购物中心巡演。

Britney starts touring shopping malls in late summer nineteen ninety eight.

到1999年底，她毫无争议地成为1999年销量最高的艺人，也是历史上首位同时拥有美国冠军单曲《...Baby One More Time》和冠军专辑《...Baby One More Time》的女性艺人。

By the end of 1999, she will be unequivocally the best selling artist of 1999 and the first female artist in history to have the number one song in America, that's baby one more time, the song, and the number one album in America, that's baby one more time, the album, at the same time.

她的首张专辑和首支单曲将同时登顶公告牌排行榜。

Her debut album and her debut single will top the Billboard charts simultaneously.

因此，欧莱雅发廊购物中心巡演，是布兰妮·斯皮尔斯在尚未达到惊人且令人窒息的名气之前，最后一次在舞台上演唱自己的歌曲。

The L'Oreal Hair Zone Mall Tour, therefore, is the first and last time that Britney Spears will be singing her songs on stage while she is not astoundingly, debilitatingly famous.

所以，在这个转瞬即逝、远远不够的时期——布兰妮·斯皮尔斯正在演唱《...Baby One More Time》，但这首歌尚未爆红——这就是布兰妮在2023年自传中对这段短暂时光的描述。

So this split second, this woefully insufficient period of time where Britney Spears is singing baby one more time, but baby one more time is not blown up yet, here is how Britney describes this woefully insufficient period of time in her 2023 memoir.

那大概是我一生中对音乐最有热情的时刻。

That's probably the moment in my life when I had the most passion for music.

我当时默默无闻，就算搞砸了也没什么可失去的。

I was unknown, and I had nothing to lose if I messed up.

匿名状态中有着极大的自由。

There is so much freedom in being anonymous.

我可以望着一群从未见过我的人，心想：你们还不知道我是谁。

I could look out at a crowd who'd never seen me before and think, you don't know who I am yet.

著名女演员米歇尔·威廉姆斯正在朗读布兰妮2023年回忆录《我本人》的有声书版本，这是更出色的版本——有声书版本。

That's famous actress Michelle Williams reading the audiobook version of Britney's 2023 memoir, The Woman in Me, which is the superior version, the audiobook.

请米歇尔·威廉姆斯来朗读这本书，很快就会得到回报。

Getting Michelle Williams to read this is gonna pay off real soon.

但你看，即使到了L'Oreal Hair Zone商场巡演的末尾，布兰妮也已经面对着尖叫的人群，他们显然觉得自己知道布兰妮·斯皮尔斯是谁。

But see, even by the end of the L'Oreal Hair Zone mall tour, Britney is confronted by screaming crowds who sure seem to think they know who Britney Spears is.

这是商场巡演中的另一场演出。

Here's another show on the mall tour.

这是1999年1月，事情已经发生了。

This is January 1999, and it's already happening.

事情已经发生了。

It's already happened.

她已经没时间了。

She's already out of time.

接下来我要唱的这首歌是我的第一首。

This next song I'm

gonna do is my first.

gonna do is my first.

是的。

Yeah.

结束了。

It's over.

布兰妮·斯皮尔斯的匿名与自由，已经结束了。

Britney Spears being anonymous and free, that's over.

你知道还有什么结束了么？

You know what else is over?

九十年代结束了。

The nineties.

正如我们所讨论的，年代在文化上并不一定从1990年1月1日开始，也不一定在1999年12月31日整整十年后结束。

As we've discussed, decades do not necessarily culturally begin on 01/01/1990 and end exactly ten years later on 12/31/1999 or whatever.

一个流行的观点是，九十年代正式始于1991年9月，当时涅槃乐队的《Smells Like Teen Spirit》发布。

One popular argument is that the nineties began officially in September 1991 when Nirvana's Smells Like Teen Spirit came out.

这被认为是八十年代真正结束、九十年代真正开始的时刻，尽管只是假设。

That's the true moment the eighties ended and the nineties began, hypothetically.

我的同事诺拉·普林西皮蒂最近出版了一本很棒的书，名叫《Hit Girls》。

My colleague Nora Principiati recently published a fantastic book called Hit Girls.

《布兰妮、泰勒、碧昂丝，以及打造流行乐最闪亮十年的女性们》。

Britney, Taylor, Beyonce, and the Women Who Built Pop's Shiniest Decade.

诺拉有力地论证道，布兰妮·斯皮尔斯在1998年某个时候的电台里第一次唱出‘哦，宝贝，宝贝’的那一刻，就是九十年代结束、二月开始的时刻，是命运转折的时刻，是流行乐最闪亮十年的开端。

And Nora argues convincingly that the very first time Britney Spears sang the words, oh, baby, baby, on the radio somewhere in the 1998, that's the moment the nineties ended and the February began, the moment the odds began, the moment pop's shiniest decade began.

所以，别再看日历了。

So forget the calendar.

现在已经是二月了。

It's the February now.

青少年流行音乐现在非常流行。

Teen pop is huge now.

青少年流行音乐最好由一些神秘的瑞典人创作出古怪、无厘头且略带不安的歌词。

Teen pop preferably featuring bizarre and nonsensical and vaguely unsettling lyrics written by mysterious Swedish dudes.

这现在非常流行。

That's huge now.

由布兰妮·斯皮尔斯演唱的青少年流行音乐现在非常流行。

Teen pop, preferably sung by Britney Spears, is huge now.

2000年5月，布兰妮发行了她的第二张专辑《Oops!... I Did It Again》。

In May 2000, Britney puts out her second album called Oops, I Did It Again.

Oops！…… I did it again。

Oops, exclamation point dot dot dot space, I did it again.

她知道自己现在极其有名。

And she knows she's absurdly famous now.

她知道你们现在自以为了解她是谁、她是什么样的人。

And she knows that you think you know who and what she is now.

怎么

How

她是怎么登上那颗巨大的星星的？又该怎么下来？

did she get up on that giant star, and how is she gonna get down?

Lucky让我担心。

Lucky concerns me.

Lucky是第二张布兰妮专辑里最打动我的那首歌。

Lucky is the song that really gets me on the second Britney album.

这首歌真让我沮丧。

This one really bums me out.

表面上看，Lucky也是一首甜蜜的爱情歌曲，或者说是对爱情的深切渴望。

Ostensibly, Lucky is also a sweet love song or a sweet pining for love song.

通常，当你听到一首流行歌曲，其中一位年轻流行歌手唱到她如何在孤独的心中哭泣时，流行音乐已经让你默认认为这位歌手之所以哭泣，是因为她思念着某个特别的人。

Typically, when you hear a pop song in which a young pop star sings about how she cry cry cries in her lonely heart, pop music has trained you to just assume that the pop star is cry, cry, crying in her lonely heart because she is pining for a special someone.

是的。

Yes.

她感到孤独，因为她需要有人陪在身边。

She is lonely because she needs someone else to be there with her.

但布兰妮·斯皮尔斯在歌曲《Lucky》中从未真正说过这一点。

But Britney Spears never actually says that in the song Lucky.

布兰妮·斯皮尔斯所做的，是唱出‘为什么’这个词，仿佛在向自己辉煌却空洞的名人生涯中呼喊。

What Britney Spears does instead is she sings the word why like she is howling into the void of her own crushing celebrity.

‘为什么’这个词的音调弯曲却不破裂。

The way the word why bends but does not break.

‘为什么’这个词巧妙而猛烈地将时空折叠成两半。

The way the word why neatly and violently folds the space time continuum in half.

在视频中，当她唱到‘为什么’时，她的表情并没有明显变化，但你完全可以相信，她的灵魂在那一刻发生了改变。

In the video, her face does not especially change expression when she hits that why, but you'd better believe that her soul changes expression.

那个升向‘为什么’的旋律跳跃，在技术上是合理的。

The melodic leap up to the word why there is technically sound.

从旋律数学的角度来看，这完全正确，正是那些神秘的瑞典词曲作者们所钟爱的风格。

It is technically and mathematically correct in the melodic math sense that these mysterious Swedish songwriter dudes are so famously fond of.

但布兰妮唱到‘why’时的高音每次让我听到都感到不安。

But Britney's leap up to the word why also freaks me out every time I hear it.

这其中有一种令人痛苦、无助的人性。

There is something so painfully, helplessly human about it.

第二段歌词也是同样的情况。

Same deal with the whole second verse.

在

In

在视频中，她唯一的朋友、唯一的陪伴，都是她自己的幻影。

the video, her only friends, her only companions now are phantom versions of herself.

我能感觉到自己在这里对流行明星的潜台词和流行明星的戏剧性过度解读了，我不想过度解读。

And I can feel myself overdoing it here in terms of pop star subtext and pop star melodrama, and I don't wanna overdo it.

而且，我不想再谈论这个话题。

And furthermore, I don't wanna talk about it.

但虽然我现在对布兰妮唱‘why’的方式已经有所准备，我却远未准备好面对她唱出‘世界在旋转，而我仍在赢’时那种真正美丽、一半天真一半认命的语调。

But while I'm somewhat prepared now today for the way Britney Spears sings the word why, I was far less prepared for the truly beautiful, the precisely half naive and half resigned way Britney Spears sings to herself the words, and the world is spinning and she keeps on winning, but tell me what happens when it stops.

别回答这个问题。

Don't answer that.

让我给你举个例子。

Let me give you an example.

贾斯汀·汀布莱克。

Justin Timberlake.

我不想谈这个。

I don't wanna talk about it.

关于布兰妮的前男友贾斯汀·汀布莱克，我只有一句话要说。

I have precisely one thing to say about Britney's ex boyfriend, Justin Timberlake.

布兰妮的回忆录《我是女人》读起来常常很艰难，这显而易见。

Britney's memoir, The Woman in Me, is rough going often, obviously.

但在有声书版本中，有一个极其精彩的幽默时刻，它始于布兰妮敏锐地指出了贾斯汀在上世纪九十年代末、两千年初的超级男孩乐队与另一支同期火爆的男孩乐队之间的区别。

But there is one magnificent moment of comic relief in the audiobook version especially, and it starts with Britney rather astutely illustrating the difference between Justin's blockbuster late nineties, early two thousands boy band and that other blockbuster late nineties, early two thousands boy band.

他的乐队NSYNC，就是当时人们所说的那种超酷的乐队。

His band NSYNC was what people back then called so pimp.

他们都是白人男孩，但却热爱嘻哈音乐。

They were white boys, but they loved hip hop.

在我看来，这正是他们与后街男孩的区别，后街男孩似乎非常刻意地把自己定位为一个白人团体。

To me, that's what separated them from the Backstreet Boys, who seemed very consciously to position themselves as a white group.

NSYNC 会和黑人艺人混在一起。

NSYNC hung out with black artists.

我个人这辈子从来没听过有人把 NSYNC 称为 so pimp，但她才是专家。

Now I personally have never in my life heard anybody refer to NSYNC as so pimp, but she's the expert.

不过，别管这个了。

Never mind that, though.

有时候我觉得他们为了融入其中而太过努力。

Sometimes I thought they tried too hard to fit in.

有一天，我和杰伊在纽约，去了我以前从没去过的一些街区。

One day, Jay and I were in New York, going to parts of town I'd never been to before.

迎面走来一个戴着巨大镶满宝石的吊坠的男子。

Walking our way was a guy with a huge, blinged out medallion.

他身边跟着两名高大的保安。

He was flanked by two giant security guards.

杰伊非常兴奋，大声说：是的。

Jay got all excited and said so loud, oh, yeah.

真的。

Genuine.

嘿，兄弟，最近怎么样？

What's up, homie?

太棒了。

Amazing.

这是著名女演员米歇尔·威廉姆斯在演绎布兰妮对当时还是男友的汀布莱克试图融入R&B巨星圈时那极其尴尬的举动的回忆。

This is famous actress, Michelle Williams, acting out Britney Spears' recollection of her dorkess soon to be ex boyfriend, Timberlake's, ultra cringey attempt to ingratiate himself with R and B superstar genuine.

我非常喜欢这个小故事。

I love this anecdote very much.

如果你要听完整本有声书，即使它越来越令人尴尬，我也推荐你坚持听完。

If you're gonna do this whole audiobook and painful as it gets, I do recommend it.

我也建议你 somehow bookmark，是的。

I also recommend that you somehow bookmark, oh, yeah.

因为她如此，所以你可以不时回看，以获得情感支持，当Britney描述她接下来令人震惊的二十多年人生时。

For she is for she is so you could return to it periodically for emotional support while Britney describes the truly harrowing last twenty odd years of her life.

不管怎样，我本该这么做的。

That's what I should have done anyway.

但我不想谈这个。

But I don't wanna talk about it.

Britney Spears的第三张专辑于2001年发布，名为《Britney》，开场曲是《I'm a Slave for You》，编号四，大写U，由我们的超级制作人朋友The Neptunes创作和制作。

The third Britney Spears album is released in 2001 and is called Britney and kicks off with a song called I'm a Slave for you, numeral four, capital u, written and produced by our super producer friends, the Neptunes.

这个视频看起来非常汗湿且不舒服，而且出现了比我预期多得多的木纹饰板。

That video looks really sweaty and uncomfortable and features way more wood paneling than I anticipated.

Britney的声音痛苦又挑逗地融化在'slave'这个词上的样子，真的非常特别。

The way Britney's voice wincingly and lasciviously melts all over the word slave is really something.

是的？

Yes?

是的。

Yes.

让我感到特别震撼的是，布兰妮轻松而简洁地厘清了NSYNC和Backstreet Boys之间的区别：NSYNC与黑人艺术家交往，而Backstreet Boys则明确将自己定位为白人艺人，而布兰妮自己的音乐始终游走于这一音乐与文化分界线上。

What's so striking to me about Britney casually and succinctly nailing the distinction between NSYNC and the Backstreet Boys, NSYNC hung out with black artists while the Backstreet Boys explicitly positioned themselves as white artists, is that Britney's own music has always navigated that same musical and cultural divide.

众所周知，在九十年代她向唱片公司推销自己时，布兰妮的试听CD里包含了一首原本为R&B巨星托尼·布拉克顿创作的歌曲。

Famously, back in the nineties when she was shopping herself to record labels, Britney's demo CD included a song meant for R and B superstar Tony Braxton.

众所周知，布兰妮曾亲自到唱片公司 audition，演唱惠特妮·休斯顿的歌曲。

Famously, Britney auditioned in person for record labels by singing Whitney Houston songs.

同样著名的是，歌曲《...Baby One More Time》最初是提供给TLC的，就是那个唱《Waterfalls》和《No Scrubs》的TLC。

Also famously, the song baby one more time was originally offered to TLC, TLC of waterfalls and no scrubs fame, etcetera.

TLC当时说：‘你们想让我们唱一首副歌是‘Hit me, baby, one more time’的歌？’

And TLC were like, you want us to sing a song with a chorus that goes hit me, baby, one more time?

不。

No.

我这是在转述。

I'm paraphrasing.

但我真的有吗？

But am I, though?

从一开始，布兰妮的音乐中就充满了R&B元素，尤其是她的嗓音本身。

From the onset, there is tons of r and b in Britney's music and especially in Britney's physical voice.

但那种极其瑞典风格的流行乐、旋律的数学感、马克斯·马丁的制作，以及那种明显带有 funky 白人风格的特质，主导了她的前两张专辑。

But the extremely Swedish pop, the melodic math, the Max Martin of it all, the palpable medium funky whiteness of it all dominates her first two records.

它们主导了《...Baby One More Time》和《Oops!... I Did It Again》这两张专辑。

It dominates the baby one more time and oops, I did it again records.

尽管这两张专辑极其出色，并且在全球历史上取得了巨大成功，但听到布兰妮在第三张专辑中强行拓展自己的音乐边界时，真的令人振奋。

And as fantastic and as world historically successful as those first two records are, it is electrifying truly on album number three to listen as Britney forcibly expands her horizons.

我很高兴The Neptunes来了。

I'm so glad the Neptunes are here.

这正是我想说的。

That's what I'm saying.

我一向很高兴看到The Neptunes出现，但现在我更高兴了。

I'm always glad when the Neptunes are around, but now I'm extra glad.

这首歌叫《Boys》。

This song is called boys.

这是这张第三张专辑中另一首与The Neptunes合作的歌曲，来自布兰妮。

It is the other Neptunes collaboration on this third album, Britney.

如果你和我一样，当你听到布兰妮·斯皮尔斯用牙齿狠狠撕开‘nasty’这个词时，你立刻会想到珍妮特·杰克逊。

And if you're like me, when you hear Britney Spears gloriously rip the word nasty in half with her teeth, immediately you think Janet Jackson.

对吧？

Right?

只要你任何时候提到‘nasty boys’这个概念，珍妮特·杰克逊就会立刻瞬移到你身边。

If you personally evoke the concept of nasty boys anywhere at any time, Janet Jackson will instantly teleport to your physical location.

这并不真实。

That's not true.

不过，珍妮特可能会瞬移到布兰妮身边。

Janet might teleport to Britney's location, though.

珍妮特会破例一次。

Janet will make an exception.

如果珍妮特·杰克逊能真的瞬移到布兰妮·斯皮尔斯身边，尤其是在2001年左右的这个时候，我简直太高兴了，因为对我来说，最重要的是，布兰妮·斯皮尔斯始终需要掌控权。

I would be delighted actually if Janet Jackson would physically teleport to Britney Spears' location, especially here circa 2001, because more than anything else, control is what I want for Britney Spears, always.

正如你所记得的，珍妮特在八十年代初出道，发行了几张略显犹豫、平平无奇的青少年流行专辑。

So Janet Jackson, as you recall, debuts in the early eighties, and she makes a couple tentative underwhelming teen poppish records.

但到了1986年，她凭借神级专辑《控制》真正爆红。

But then she blows up for real in 1986 with her god tier album control.

珍妮特彻底解雇了。

Janet basically fires.

她著名地解除了她那位控制欲极强的父亲的经纪人职务，并与自己心仪的制作人合作，以便创作出她真正想做的音乐。

She relieves her world famously overbearing father from his duties as her manager, and she hooks up with the producers she wants so she can make the exact kind of music she wants.

结果发现，珍妮特·杰克逊想要做的，正是有史以来最伟大的专辑之一。

And it turns out that what Janet Jackson wants is to make one of the greatest albums of all time.

把珍妮特·杰克逊和布兰妮·斯皮尔斯、加思·布鲁克斯一起，列入头戴式麦克风名人堂吧。

Put Janet Jackson in the headset mic hall of fame right alongside Britney Spears and Garth Brooks.

你看。

And look.

珍妮特·杰克逊所处的家庭环境，在历史上几乎没有可比拟的案例，她当时需要逃离的阴影堪称庞然巨物。

Janet Jackson's specific family situation, there is no real historical equivalent to the planet sized shadow Janet Jackson needs to escape from in this moment.

但从那以后，珍妮特·杰克逊的路也并非一帆风顺。

And it's not like it's smooth sailing for Janet Jackson from here on out.

但无论在音乐上还是哲学上，我始终能在布兰妮身上听到大量珍妮特的影子。

But both musically and philosophically, I have always heard a ton of Janet in Britney.

尤其是在2001年开始的接下来三张布兰妮专辑中，我能听到布兰妮在音乐和理念上都在向珍妮特靠拢。

And especially on these next three Britney albums starting in 2001, I hear Britney reaching for Janet, both musically and philosophically.

我听到布兰妮·斯皮尔斯试图创作属于自己的《控制》，也听到她试图掌控自己的人生。

I hear Britney Spears trying to make her own control, and I hear Britney Spears trying to take control.

在

At

此时，就连布兰妮的伴舞们也带着一种近乎跟踪狂和敌意的态度。

this point, even Britney's backup dancers have a vaguely stalkery and hostile disposition.

这首歌也收录在布兰妮2001年的专辑中。

This song is also on the 2001 Britney album.

这首歌由马克斯·马丁和拉米·雅库布共同创作和制作，他们曾打造过《...Baby One More Time》的超级热门单曲。

It is cowritten and coproduced by Max Martin and Rami Yakub of baby one more time, super fame.

这首歌名为《Overprotected》，恰好与‘我纠正一下’押韵。

And it is called overprotected, which conveniently rhymes with I stand corrected.

但更重要的是，这里有这么一段。

More importantly, though, there's this part.

但我有什么资格说一个女孩该做什么呢？

But who am I to say what a girl is to do?

哦哦。

Oof.

然后她开始和那些态度敌对的伴舞们一起跳舞。

And then she starts dancing with her hostile backup dancers.

她只想跳舞。

All she wants to do is dance.

这张2001年的布兰妮专辑，里面收录了她出色又暴躁的《I Love Rock and Roll》翻唱版本。

This 2001 Britney record, this is the record with her excellent and grouchy cover of I love rock and roll on it.

这张专辑里有一首歌叫《不是女孩，尚未成为女人》。

This is the record with the song Not a Girl, Not Yet a Woman on it.

正如我们所知，挫败感、恼怒、深刻的不满，这些都是伟大摇滚乐、伟大流行乐不可或缺的元素。

As we have learned, frustration, exasperation, profound dissatisfaction, these are all crucial elements of great rock music, great pop music, whatever.

但在流行乐最闪亮的这个十年里，没有任何历史先例能与布兰妮·斯皮尔斯所经历的挫败、恼怒、深刻不满，以及她被试图婴儿化的处境相提并论，更没有任何历史先例能与她试图逃离的、哪怕那是她自己的阴影般的庞大阴影相比。

But here in pop's shiniest decade, there is no real historical equivalent for the frustration, the exasperation, the profound dissatisfaction, the attempted infantilization of Britney Spears, and no real historical equivalent for the planet sized shadow she's trying to escape from, even if it's her own shadow.

对我来说，布兰妮·斯皮尔斯在2000年代发行的每一张专辑的挑战在于：你能听多久而不去深思她在二月所经历的那些私人却极度公开的挣扎？

The challenge, for me anyway, with every album Britney Spears makes in the two thousands is how long you can listen to it without thinking too hard about the personal and yet horrendously public struggles of Britney Spears in the February.

贾斯汀·汀布莱克，我不想谈这个。

Justin Timberlake, I don't wanna talk about it.

凯文·费德林。

Kevin Federline.

凯文·费德林就是那个被付钱来代表‘我不想谈这个’的代言人。

Kevin Federline is the fucking compensated spokesman for I don't wanna talk about it.

凯文·费德林最近出版了一本回忆录，如果你给我600美元，我就读这本书。

Kevin Federline recently published a memoir, and I will read that book if you pay me $600.

我已随意但坚定地将阅读凯文·费德林回忆录所需的金额定为600美元。

I have settled arbitrarily but firmly on $600 as the dollar amount I require to read Kevin Federline's memoir.

那些无休无止、 relentless 追踪布兰妮的狗仔队。

The paparazzi that hounds Britney Spears relentlessly forever and always.

我不想谈这个。

I don't wanna talk about it.

狗仔队在布兰妮的回忆录中被各种描述为敌对势力、鲨鱼、僵尸大军，以及追逐吃豆人的幽灵——我不想谈这个。

The paparazzi variously described in Britney's memoir as enemy combatants, sharks, an army of zombies, and the ghosts chasing Pac Man, I don't wanna talk about it.

仅仅因为布兰妮在回忆录中不得不花大量篇幅谈论这个。

If only because Britney is forced to spend so much of her memoir talking about it.

你知道布兰妮回忆录中一个低调却令人心碎的时刻是什么吗？

You know what's a low key heartbreaking moment in Britney's memoir?

当她和麦当娜一起外出时。

When she hangs out with Madonna.

不是布兰妮在MTV音乐奖上亲吻麦当娜的时候。

Not when Britney smooches Madonna at the VMAs.

这是另一个时刻。

This is another time.

这是那之后的事。

This is after that.

布兰妮·斯皮尔斯的第四张专辑于2003年发布，名为《In the Zone》，开场曲是《Me Against the Music》，由我们的朋友麦当娜助阵。

The fourth Britney Spears album is released in 2003 and is called In the Zone, and it kicks off with a song called Me Against the Music, which features our friend, Madonna.

看。

Look.

我们不一定希望布兰妮说唱，甚至也不希望她长时间处于说唱相关的环境中，但她那流畅、富有旋律且节奏精准的音节轰炸，却是《Me Against the Music》中最让我喜欢的部分。

We don't necessarily want Britney Spears rapping nor do we necessarily even want Britney spending much time in a rap adjacent environment, but her deft and melodic and mathematically pleasing barrage of syllables there is my favorite part of Me Against the Music.

布兰妮的舞蹈也变得越来越锐利、强硬且更具对抗性。

Britney's choreography is getting sharper and harsher and more confrontational as well.

太棒了。

It's awesome.

麦当娜出场的那段也很酷。

The part where Madonna shows up is pretty cool too.

把麦当娜列入手杖 wielder 的名人堂。

Put Madonna in the cane wielding hall of fame.

这是麦当娜教给布兰妮关于控制的事情。

And here's what Madonna shows Britney about control.

在布兰妮的回忆录中，她写道：‘在我们拍摄《Sawz》音乐视频的第一天——也就是最后两三天——我们被告知麦当娜的白色西装出现了一条裂缝，必须叫来裁缝修补，因此拍摄时间要推迟。',

In Britney's memoir, she writes, quote, on the first day of our shoot for the Sawz video, which was the last two or three days, we were told a seam had come undone on Madonna's white suit, and a seamstress had to be called in to fix it so there would be a delay in our start time.

我不得不在房车里坐了几个小时，等待西装修好。

I wound up having to sit in my trailer for hours waiting for the suit to be fixed.

真的吗？

Really?

我当时想。

I thought.

我甚至不知道给自己留这么多时间竟然是一个选项。',

I didn't even know taking so much time for oneself was an option, end quote.

布兰妮继续说道。

And Britney goes on.

她说：‘在我们共同拍摄期间，我对麦当娜如何坚持自己的愿景感到钦佩。’

She says, quote, during our shoot together, I was in awe of the ways Madonna would not compromise her vision.

她始终把焦点放在自己身上。

She kept the focus on her.

顺应麦当娜的想法，为她的时间等待数日，这就是与她合作的意义。

Going along with Madonna's ideas and being on her time for days was what it meant to collaborate with her.

这对我来说是一堂重要的课，我花了很长时间才真正吸收。

It was an important lesson for me, one that would make a long time for me to absorb.

她要求权力，于是她得到了权力。

She demanded power, and so she got power.

她之所以成为关注的中心，是因为她把这作为自己出席任何场合的前提条件。

She was the center of attention because she made that the condition of her showing up anywhere.

她为自己创造了这样的生活。

She made that life for herself.

我希望自己也能找到方法做到这一点，同时保留我想保留的‘好女孩’身份的那些部分。’

I hoped I could find ways to do that while preserving the parts of my nice girl identity that I wanted to keep, end quote.

你看。

And look.

从今往后，麦当娜的路从来就不是一帆风顺的。

It ain't exactly smooth sailing from here on out for Madonna ever.

但就像让我难过的是布兰妮从未能完全成为珍妮特·杰克逊、掌握自己的主导权一样，也让我难过的是，布兰妮永远无法像麦当娜那样完全掌控权力——由于一些个人、法律和体制上的原因，我不想多谈，布兰妮始终无法像麦当娜那样强势争取权力。

But the same way it bums me out that Britney never got to go full Janet Jackson and make her own control, it bums me out that Britney never gets to go full Madonna For various personal and legal and institutional reasons I don't wanna talk about, Britney can never quite demand power the way Madonna demands power.

这种权力本可以给布兰妮在音乐和个人层面带来巨大益处。

Power that could have been a huge benefit to Britney both musically and personally.

此外，顺便说一句，这张《In The Zone》专辑里我最喜爱的片段，常常让我想起麦当娜的《Ray of Light》专辑。

Plus, incidentally, my favorite moments on this In The Zone record tend to remind me of Madonna's album Ray of Light.

这首歌叫《Touch of My Hand》。

This song is called Touch of My Hand.

从歌词来看，我觉得这很容易理解，我邀请你在你个人的私密时光里自己去体会。

Lyrically, I think this is pretty easy to interpret, and I invite you to do that during your own personal private time.

但听听那段小提琴。

But dig the violin there.

听听2004年那种迷醉的尖端电子音效。

Dig the blissed out state of the art circa 2004 electronic bloops.

感受这里真正令人震惊的全球性催眠氛围。

Dig the genuinely startling worldly hypnotic vibes here.

我们变得越来越怪异了。

We're getting weirder.

我们变得更大胆了。

We're getting bolder.

我们正在跨越国界。

We're crossing borders.

我们正在突破界限。

We're crossing boundaries.

我们正在探索。

We are searching.

我们既更深地投入，也更失去控制。

We are both further in and further out of control.

而且，天啊，斯皮尔斯的这首歌讲的正是那种持续处于掌控与失控之间的状态。

And boy, oh, boy, Spears sing is about being both in and out of control constantly.

你可能会觉得《Touch of My Hand》是《In the Zone》里最棒的歌，或者也可能是《Breathe On Me》这首歌，我也建议你在私下的个人时光里自己去解读它的歌词。

It's tempting to tell you that Touch of My Hand is the best song on In the Zone, or maybe it's the song called Breathe On Me that I also encourage you to interpret lyrically in your own personal private time.

又或者，那首由Moby共同创作和制作的《Early Mornin'》才是？

Or maybe it's the one called Early Mornin' that was cowritten and coproduced by Moby.

Moby就是那个秃头、满身纹身的家伙。

Moby being the bald guy with the tattoos.

但说实话。

But yeah.

好吧。

Okay.

别管了。

Never mind.

我们别自欺欺人了。

Let's not kid ourselves.

好的。

Okay.

这就是你如何制作二月最酷的流行音乐采样之一。

So here's how you make one of the raddest pop music samples of the February.

好吧。

Alright.

所以我们从詹姆斯·邦德开始。

So we start with James Bond.

对吧？

Right?

这是1963年肖恩·康纳利时代的《俄罗斯之恋》经典詹姆斯·邦德配乐。

A classic James Bond score from Russia with Love 1963 Sean Connery era.

那是塔尼娅·罗曼诺娃在说话。

That's Tanya Romanova speaking.

她隶属于苏联陆军情报部门。

She's with Soviet Army Intelligence.

她会被人骗去参与刺杀詹姆斯·邦德的阴谋，但也许她也想和詹姆斯·邦德亲热一下。

She's And gonna get tricked into a plot to assassinate James Bond, but she'd also maybe like to smooch with James Bond.

而这些计划中会有一个成功。

And one of those plans will succeed.

对吧？

Right?

好的。

Okay.

好吧。

Alright.

现在把这段音频倒放，提高音调，稍微剪切一下，然后重复新的最后一小节三次。

Now run the clip backward, raise the pitch, chop it up a little bit, and repeat the new last bar three times.

好吧。

Alright.

太棒了。

That's dope.

顺便提一下，感谢YouTube频道和采样服务Tracklib提供这段素材。

Shout out the YouTube channel and sampling service Tracklib, by the way, for this.

我们给它配上酷炫的鼓点，狠狠地炸一波。

Let's put some cool drums under that and go kick some ass.

等一下。

Hold on now.

不好意思。

I'm sorry.

我搞混了。

I got confused.

这可不是布兰妮的歌。

That's not Britney Yeah.

这是林肯公园2003年的歌曲《Faint》。

This is Lincoln Park, The 2,003 Lincoln Park song Faint.

《Faint》确实是二月最棒的流行音乐采样之一。

And Faint is indeed one of the raddest pop music samples of the February.

《Faint》确实非常带感，但那不是我的本意，显而易见。

And Faint does indeed kick tremendous quantities of ass, but that's not what I meant, obviously.

我真的很抱歉。

I do apologize.

我们再来一遍。

Let's try that again.

这样好多了。

That's better.

好了。

Alright.

所以我们从1981年的印度电影《宝莱坞》开始。

So we start with Bollywood with the 1981 Indian film.

这是一部浪漫悲剧，有《罗密欧与朱丽叶》的感觉。

It's a romantic tragedy, Romeo and Juliet vibes.

我们的两位恋人正在一片郁郁葱葱的山坡上翩翩起舞，俯瞰着大海。

Our two lovers are twirling around on a lush hill overlooking the ocean.

这位女士正优美地吟唱着一首叫《Tiri Miri Beach Mean》的歌。

The lady is beautifully crooning a song called Tiri Miri Beach Mean.

与此同时，这位男士戴着墨镜，头上戴着棒球帽，黑发浓密，随着音乐节奏在岩石上跳跃。

And meanwhile, the dude is wearing sunglasses and a baseball cap under lush dark hair, and he's jumping on rocks in time to the musical score.

他看起来像是刚从一场芝加哥熊队获胜的比赛现场直接过来的。

He looks like he came straight from a Chicago bears game, and the bears won.

我真的很喜欢这家伙的气质。

I really dig this guy's vibe.

我很高兴现在这是一个视频播客。

I'm so glad this is a video podcast now.

我敢打赌这部电影一定很精彩。

I bet this movie rules.

希望他结尾别死掉。

He better not die at the end.

好了。

Alright.

现在倒回二十秒左右，回到那个酷炫的家伙骑着酷炫的摩托车载上那位酷炫的女士的时刻。

Now jump back twenty seconds or so to when the rad dude picks up the rad lady on his rad motorcycle.

就是这样。

There we go.

这才对劲。

That's more like it.

好了。

Alright.

把这段剪辑一下，切一切，随便怎么弄，然后咱们去干点比历史上任何人都更猛的事儿。

Put that together, chop it up, whatever, and let's go kick pretty much more ass than's ever been kicked by anyone ever.

这是2003年 Toxic 视频里最顶尖的电脑特效。

The finest computer graphics 2003 has to offer in the Toxic video.

我直说吧，我最喜欢 Britney Spears 的《Toxic》这首歌，就是因为我跟你不一样，我本人根本不会带着任何关于 Britney Spears 的沉重社会包袱来看这首歌。

I'll tell you right off the rip that what I love the most about Toxic by Britney Spears is that I don't know about you, but I personally do not bring any fraught societal Britney Spears type baggage to Toxic.

也许这只是我的想法，但也不一定。

Maybe this is just me, but maybe not.

这首歌丝毫不会让我对媒体围绕早期布兰妮所营造的那股放纵的天线宝宝式青少年卧室迷恋感到不适。

This song doesn't vaguely make me feel gross about the wanton Teletubbies ass teenage bedroom perviness of the media circus around early Britney.

回到《爱的初告白》和《Oops!... I Did It Again》的时代。

Back in the baby one more time and oops, I did it again era.

像《不是女孩，尚未成为女人》这样的布兰妮歌曲，在我脑子里，现在更像是一句呆板乐评人的术语，而不是真正的歌名。

A Britney song like Not a Girl, Not Yet a Woman, in my head anyway, that's more of a dorky rock critic phrase than it is a song title at this point.

或者至少我确信，我自己曾在某篇呆板的文章里用过‘不是女孩，尚未成为女人’这句话，而那篇文章可能根本就没提过她。

Or at least I'm pretty sure I personally have dropped not a girl, not yet a woman into some dorky article somewhere that probably wasn't even about her.

我不会去查证这件事。

I'm not gonna look that up.

从这张专辑之后，也就是《In The Zone》之后的所有布兰妮专辑，尤其是下一张专辑，都伴随着一段极其悲伤、复杂且令人震惊的公众叙事，我不想谈这些，但《毒药》不一样。

Every Britney album after this one, after In The Zone, and the very next album especially, they'll all have a terribly sad and complicated and appalling parallel public narrative to contend with that I don't wanna talk about, whereas Toxic.

这个词不是法语，但我尽量避免使用它。

And this word is not French, but I try to avoid using it.

但你现在会原谅我使用它，因为这是唯一适用的词。

But you'll forgive me for using it now because it's the only word that applies.

《Toxic》这首歌在我们这个时代，就是纯粹的神曲。

Toxic is simply free to be in the parlance of our time a banger.

当布兰妮直接对着空乘电话唱歌时，我特别喜欢。

I love it when Britney sings directly into this stewardess phone.

我说‘神曲’的时候，听起来真像个傻瓜。

I sound like such a doofus when I say banger.

天哪。

Yeesh.

我刚说完这个词，就一下子老了五岁。

I just permanently aged five years saying that.

我刚加入了美国退休人员协会。

I just joined the AARP.

突然间，我下午四点就在丹尼餐厅吃晚饭了。

All of a sudden, I'm eating dinner at Denny's at four in the afternoon.

对不起。

I'm sorry.

我可能再也不会说这个词了。

I probably won't ever say that again.

你知道《Toxic》最棒的部分是什么吗？

You know the best part of Toxic?

你知道在布兰妮·斯皮尔斯整个作品集中，我最钟爱的微小瞬间是什么吗？

You know my single favorite micro moment in Britney Spears' whole catalog?

就是在这些副歌中的一次和弦变化。

It's one chord change during these verses.

就发生在她唱到‘It's dangerous’的那一刻。

It just happened right when she sings, it's dangerous.

从C到E7，只是最紧张、最细微的音高上升。

C to e seven, just the tensest and tiniest step higher.

当她唱到‘You're dangerous’时，这里又出现了一次。

It happens again right here when she goes, you're dangerous.

我太喜欢这个了。

I'm loving it.

两千年代最棒的五个和弦转换。

Top five best chord change of the two thousands.

前三名，可能是第一名。

Top three, possibly number one.

我正在整理我的清单。

I'm working on my list right now.

我正用一家丹尼餐厅的餐巾纸在浏览它。

I'm scrolling it on a Denny's napkin.

我正用视频里另一位空乘递给我的餐巾纸在浏览它。

I'm scrolling it on a napkin handed to me by one of the other stewardesses in this video.

《Toxic》由制作与创作组合Bloodshy和Avant制作并共同创作，这两位家伙确实是地道的瑞典人。

Toxic is produced and co written by the production and songwriting duo Bloodshy and Avant, and these dudes are indeed extremely Swedish.

但从印度宝莱坞采样开始，就有一种全球性的气魄。

And yet from the Bollywood sample forward, there is a global sweep.

《Toxic》展现出一种融合流派、突破边界的无畏精神。

There is a genre mashing and boundary expanding fearlessness to Toxic.

詹姆斯·邦德式的间谍吉他桥段，那种慵懒的质感，比中等 funk 还要更 funk。

The James Bond spy guitar action, the slinkiness, the way funkier than medium funkiness.

在演唱上，布兰妮切换声区的方式，从沙哑的短促音突然转到轻柔的假声，就在这里。

Vocally, it's the way Britney switches registers, the way she flips from growly staccato to breathy falsetto right here.

她停顿了几秒钟，为舞池铺垫了她职业生涯中最棒的一次和弦转换。

And she drops out for a couple seconds to seed the dance floor to the single best chord change of her career.

难以置信。

Unbelievable.

这个和弦转换简直让我崩溃。

That chord change just kills me.

从 C 到 E 七和弦。

C to e seven.

我其实说不太清楚，但我尽力了。

I can't really explain it, but I tried.

《Toxic》的音乐录影带中出现了至少半打愚蠢的老白人男性。

The Toxic video features at least half a dozen dopey old white guys.

《Toxic》这首歌有四位词曲作者。

Toxic, the song, has four songwriters.

我们有制作人Bloodshy和Avant，还有瑞典的Henrik Jonback，以及英国的Kathy Dennis，她不是瑞典人。

We got the producers, Bloodshy and Avant, plus Henrik Jonback, Swedish, and Kathy Dennis, English, not Swedish.

Kathy的其他重要作品还包括Kylie Minogue的《Can't Get You Out of My Head》和Katy Perry的《I Kissed a Girl》。

And Kathy's other big shot credits include Kylie Minogue's can't get you out of my head and Katy Perry's I kissed a girl.

这是布兰妮的第四张专辑。

This is the fourth Britney Spears album.

从结构、数学和哲学层面来看，《Toxic》属于S级的顶级流行歌曲创作。

This is s tier best of the best hyper elite pop song craft structurally, mathematically, philosophically.

但《Toxic》听起来并没有那种刻意雕琢、过度市场调研或被改到失去灵魂的感觉。

But Toxic somehow does not sound labored or focus grouped or song doctored into theoretical oblivion.

它既有精准，也有混乱。

It's the precision but also the chaos.

用布兰妮自己的话来说，就是完全掌控与彻底释放失控的结合。

To put it in Britney terms, it's the total control and the total liberating loss of control.

这是我第二喜欢的布兰妮·斯皮尔斯的歌。

This is my second favorite Britney Spears song.

《Toxic》被公认为布兰妮·斯皮尔斯第二好的歌曲。

Toxic is canonically the second best Britney Spears song.

不过，我对于布兰妮·斯皮尔斯最棒的那首歌的主要问题是，这首歌里她明确谈到了我不想聊的那些事。

My big problem, though, with the single best Britney Spears song is that on that song, she is explicitly talking about all the shit I don't wanna talk about.

《Piece of Me》是布兰妮·斯皮尔斯最好的歌。

Piece of Me is the best Britney Spears song.

由Bloodshy和Avant再次制作，他们与瑞典人Klaus Algund共同创作了这首歌。

Produced by Bloodshy and Avant again, who co wrote it with Klaus Algund, Swedish.

你知道吗？在《My Arm》这首歌里，布兰妮唱着‘我手臂上有个孩子’，但她依然是一位极其成功的艺人？

Did you know Britney is singing with a kid on my arm, I'm still an exceptional earner there?

我不知道这一点。

I didn't know that.

我之前没注意到最后一词是‘艺人’。

I didn't know the last word there was earner.

在《Piece of Me》中，布兰妮·斯皮尔斯明确地唱出了围绕她始终肆虐、如今已完全吞噬她的荒谬媒体风暴。

On Piece of Me, Britney Spears sings unambiguously about the ludicrous media firestorm that has always raged around her and has by now totally engulfed her.

《Piece of Me》是布兰妮·斯皮尔斯第五张专辑的开场曲，这张专辑于2007年发行，名为《Blackout》。

Piece of Me kicks off the fifth Britney Spears album, which is released in 2007 and is called Blackout.

很难想象有人在经历如此糟糕的时期时，还能推出一张比这更好的专辑。

It is hard to imagine a better album released by a person having a worse time.

布兰妮在她的回忆录中并没有深入谈论她的音乐。

Britney doesn't talk in-depth about her music in her memoir.

她喜欢《Baby One More Time》。

She likes Baby One More Time.

她喜欢《Me Against the Music》。

She likes Me Against the Music.

她喜欢《Toxic》。

She likes Toxic.

她喜欢相当多的自己的歌曲。

She likes quite a few of her songs.

当然。

Sure.

但直到她谈到这个时期时，才反复说《Blackout》是她做过的最好的作品。

But it's not until she's talking about this era when she starts saying over and over that blackout is the best thing she's ever done.

令她感到荒谬且极度痛苦的是，尽管她创作了职业生涯中最棒的专辑，《Blackout》却恰恰成为她失去一切控制的时刻。

And it is outrageous and tremendously upsetting to her that despite making the best album of her career, blackout is also the moment where she loses control of everything.

2000年，布兰妮剃光头发，用雨伞砸了狗仔的车，并在MTV音乐大奖上表演了《Blackout》的主打单曲《Gimme More》，但反响很差。

So 2000 is the year Britney Spears shaves her head and whacks a paparazzi's car with an umbrella and performs her song Gimme More, the lead single off Blackout, at the VMAs, and it is poorly received.

2008年初，布兰妮因与前夫凯文·费德林激烈争夺子女监护权，担心再也见不到孩子，于是把自己和两个儿子中的一个锁在了家里的浴室里。

Early 2008 is when Britney locks herself in the bathroom in her home with one of her two sons because she's in the midst of a vicious custody battle with her ex husband, Kevin Federline, and she fears she will never see her children again.

在布兰妮·斯皮尔斯生命中所有那些我不想再回想的糟糕公开事件里，最不想想起的，就是她和儿子被锁在浴室里，直到特警队破门而入的场景。

Of all the singularly unpleasant public events in Britney Spears' life that I don't wanna think about anymore, Britney and her son locked in a bathroom until literally a SWAT team arrives to break the door down, I don't wanna think about that the most.

2008年2月，布兰妮被置于由她那位众所周知专横的父亲主导的监护权之下，这项监护权使她完全丧失了对自己生活和事业最细微方面的控制，持续了十三年多。

February 2008, Britney is placed in a conservatorship controlled primarily by her world famously overbearing father, and that conservatorship in which Britney entirely loses control over the most minute aspects of her life and career, the conservatorship lasts for thirteen plus years.

布兰妮直到2021年11月才获得自由，那时我们已进入一个新时代，许多人开始对媒体如何对待布兰妮·斯皮尔斯感到愧疚。

Britney is not freed until November 2021, by which time we've entered a new media era where lots of people feel bad about how the media treated Britney Spears.

于是人们开始制作道歉式的布兰妮·斯皮尔斯纪录片，但布兰妮也不太享受这个道歉纪录片的时代。

So people start making apologetic Britney Spears documentaries, but Britney doesn't much enjoy the apology documentary era either.

整个世界为她感到惋惜，反而让她觉得这不过是另一种控制她的手段。

The whole world feeling sorry for her gets to feeling like just another way to control her.

我不想谈论这些，因为它们显得陈词滥调且利用了她的痛苦。

And I don't wanna talk about any of that because it feels overdone and exploitative.

但后来我开始想，如果完全回避这些，只专注于音乐和和弦变化之类，我担心这不过是天真的做法。

But then I get to thinking that not talking about any of it and just laser focusing on the music and the chord changes or whatever, I worry that's just naive.

这并没有给予布兰妮足够的认可，她在这段时期创作所有音乐时所承受的一切，周而复始。

And it doesn't give Britney enough credit for everything she endured while making all this music and around and around and around.

在她的回忆录《我本人》的结尾部分，布兰妮谈到她家人强迫她入住的多家康复中心之一，那是在她因不愿在一次高收入的拉斯维加斯驻场演出中跳某个舞步而与家人发生轻微争执之后。

Toward the end of her memoir, The Woman in Me, Britney talks about one of the several rehab facilities she says her family forced her into after what Britney characterizes as a minor argument over how she didn't wanna do one dance move during one of her various blockbuster high earning Las Vegas residencies.

在这里，细节对我来说并不那么重要。

The details don't matter as much to me here.

重要的是，当布兰妮·斯皮尔斯说：‘我不该这么坚强。’

What matters is when Britney Spears says, I shouldn't be this strong.

我在比弗利山庄独自完成了这个项目，持续了两个月。

I did the program by myself for two months in Beverly Hills.

那简直像在拍我自己的恐怖电影一样痛苦。

It was hell, like being in my very own horror movie.

我喜欢看恐怖片。

I watch scary movies.

我看过《招魂》。

I've seen The Conjuring.

在治疗中心度过那几个月后，我已经什么都不怕了。

I'm not scared of anything after those months at that treatment center.

真的，我现在什么都不怕了。

Seriously, I'm not scared of anything now.

到目前为止，我可能是这个世界上最少恐惧的女人，但这并没有让我感到强大。

I'm probably the least fearful woman alive at this point, but it doesn't make me feel strong.

它只让我感到悲伤。

It makes me sad.

我不该这么坚强。

I shouldn't be this strong.

我花了好几个星期，反复听着米歇尔·威廉姆斯扮演布兰妮·斯皮尔斯说‘我不该这么坚强’，这句话在我脑子里挥之不去。

I have spent several weeks, plural, with Michelle Williams as Britney Spears saying, I shouldn't be this strong rattling around in my head.

这并不是一种舒服的感觉，也不该是舒服的。

It's not a pleasant feeling, and it's not supposed to be.

也许事情就这么简单。

And maybe it's this simple.

《有毒》是唯一一首能短暂地用好感觉取代那种糟糕感觉的歌。

Toxic is the one song that can briefly replace the bad feeling with a good feeling.

也许令人安慰的是，布兰妮·斯皮尔斯内心仍有一部分，依然在1998年某个商场的舞台上，被尖叫的粉丝包围着，虽不算完全匿名，却 somehow 依然自由。

Maybe there is some solace in the fact that some tiny part of Britney Spears is still on stage at some Mall in 1998, already surrounded by screaming fans, not quite anonymous, but somehow still free.

在她书的结尾，她是这样表述的。

Toward the end of her book, she puts it like this.

人们可能会笑，因为我发的东西很天真或奇怪，或者因为我谈论那些伤害过我的人时会变得刻薄。

People might laugh because things I post are innocent or strange or because I can get mean when I'm talking about people who've hurt me.

也许这是一次女性主义的觉醒。

Maybe this has been a feminist awakening.

我想我说的是，真实的我是谁这个谜团对我有利，因为没人知道。

I guess what I'm saying is that the mystery of who the real me is is to my advantage because nobody knows.

但与此同时，我一直在写这些，却总忍不住去查今天关于布兰妮的新闻，因为总会有新的布兰妮新闻，然后我又后悔看了。

But meanwhile, I'm writing all this, and I keep stopping to look up today's Britney Spears headline because there's always a new Britney Spears headline, and then I wish I hadn't looked it up.

我们就说到这里吧。

Let's leave it at that.

让我们让她说最后一句，最后两个词。

Let's give her the last word, the last two words.

没人知道。

Nobody knows.

如果你还需要布兰妮的什么，就再去听一遍《Toxic》吧。

And if you need anything else from Britney, just go listen to Toxic again.

我们非常高兴邀请到杰夫·韦斯，他是作家、评论家、《POW》杂志主编，在我看来还是洛杉矶市长，同时也是半虚构小说《等待布兰妮》的作者。

We are so thrilled to be joined by Jeff Weiss, writer, critic, editor in chief of POW Magazine, mayor of Los Angeles in my opinion, and author of the semifictional novel Waiting for Britney Spears.

杰夫，非常感谢你

Jeff, thank you so much for

能来参加。

being for having me.

我很高兴我从最近一直担任的副市长职位上晋升了，不过你知道的

It's I'm glad that I ended up from deputy mayor where I'd been until recently, but, you know

恭喜你升职。

Congratulations on your promotion.

这完全是实至名归。

It's it's well earned.

是的。

Yeah.

不过是有点贿赂和一点小花招而已。

It was only a little bit of bribery and and and chicanery.

这就是政治，老兄。

That's politics, man.

这就是游戏的玩法。

That's how the game is played.

当然。

Absolutely.

过去一两年你一直在谈论布兰妮·斯皮尔斯。

You've been talking about Britney Spears for the last year or two.

你知道吗，杰夫，你有没有遇到过谁不认为《毒药》是布兰妮·斯皮尔斯最好的歌？

You know, have you encountered anyone, Jeff, who doesn't think that Toxic is the best Britney Spears song?

这样的人真的存在吗？

Are those people out there?

我认为可以为《我是你的奴隶》或《我的一部分》提出一个反主流的观点。

I I think there is a contrarian case to be made for I'm a slave for you or piece of me.

但你知道，每个人都会有不同的答案，不过我认为大家一致认可的始终是《毒药》。

But, you know, everyone will have their own different answer, but I think, like, the unanimous pick is always toxic.

这可是稳赢的选择。

Like, it's a safe bet.

没人会对此有异议。

No one will argue with you about that.

没错。

Exactly.

你觉得这首歌具体有什么特别之处？

What do you think it is about this song specifically?

是因为它在她职业生涯中的位置吗？

Is it just where it falls in her career?

是因为节奏吗？

Is it more the beat?

是因为演唱表现吗？

Is it more the vocal performance?

是因为所有元素的结合吗？

Is it all of it put together?

到底是什么让《Toxic》成为这么多人——我想说是大多数人——心中的首选？

Like, what makes Toxic the one for so many people, for most people, I guess?

我的意思是，这首歌可以说是定义了她职业生涯的作品，浓缩了人们喜爱布兰妮的所有元素。

I mean, it's sort of like a career defining song encapsulates everything that people love about Britney.

而且它也捕捉到了那个时代，当时人人都在尝试模仿类似Punjabi MC那种拉格风格，或者后Timberland的风格。

Also, it kinda captures that era where everyone was trying to kind of do the kind of post Punjabi MC kind of like raga, post timberland.

你知道，那个音乐录影带非常经典，她扮演的是空乘人员兼特工，有点像《Vineland》里的DL角色，用她震动的手掌对付前男友。

You know, the video is very iconic, you know, where she's, you know, a stewardess slash secret agent that's kind of like the DL character from Vineland doing her vibrating palm murder thing on the ex boyfriend.

这就对了。

There we go.

而且，谁会不喜欢一首神曲呢？

And it's just, you know, who doesn't love a banger?

这是个很好的观点。

It's a good point.

你这么一说，确实没人会不喜欢一首神曲。

Now that you asked that, nobody doesn't love a banger.

是的。

Yeah.

确实如此。

It's true.

这就是那个时代，你知道，布兰妮的前两张专辑非常典型的青少年流行音乐，很瑞典风，由麦克斯·马丁制作，旋律结构严谨，或者类似的东西。

This is the era you know, the first two Britney records are very, like, teen pop, very Swedish, Max Martin, melodic math, or whatever.

但接着你听到了《I'm a Slave For You》。

But then you get into I'm a Slave For You.

你知道，她和Ying Yang Twins合作，还翻唱了琼·杰特的歌。

You know, she's working with the Ying Yang Twins with Madonna covering Joan Jett.

她正在拓展自己的音乐视野。

She's expanding her horizons.

对吧？

Right?

所以，在2000年代中期，她的第三和第四张专辑，你觉得布兰妮·斯皮尔斯当时想往哪个方向发展？

So, like, in the mid two thousands, her third and her fourth record, like, what's your sense of where Britney Spears wanted to go?

你觉得布兰妮·斯皮尔斯最终想成为什么样的艺人？

And, like, what do you think Britney Spears ultimately wanted to be?

我的意思是，我觉得她的榜样是珍妮特·杰克逊和麦当娜。

I mean, I think her models are a Janet Jackson and a Madonna.

对吧？

Right?

你可以看到这种转变，她从‘我不是女孩，还未成人’的状态，转向了‘我是二十三世纪阿尔法半人马座宇宙后宫中的诱惑者’这种风格。

And and you can see kind of this shift where she goes kind of from the, I'm not a girl, not yet a woman mode into, I'm a seductress in a cosmic harem mode in twenty third century, like Alpha Centauri.

我觉得这种转变是从《毒药》开始的。

And I think it kind of starts with Toxic.

你知道，当然还有《我是个奴隶》那首歌，她在MTV颁奖礼上表演时，用了那条蛇。

You know, obviously, I'm a Slave for You where she, you know, does the VMAs performance, you know, with the the snake.

那条我们都认识并喜爱的蟒蛇。

Banana, the python that we all know and love.

我觉得那个叫Doc Ansel，就是《虎王》里那个。

And Doc Doc Ansel, I think, is his name from Tiger King.

那是他团队里的一个真实时刻。

It was a real moment in his group.

但确实如此。

But yeah.

而且我觉得在这一点上，布兰妮正试图让她的音乐风格更多元化，变得更成熟。

And I and I think at this point, you know, Britney was sort of trying to kind of diversify her sound and make it more adult.

所以，这可能意味着请来阴阳双胞胎，这其实挺搞笑的。

So whether that means having the Yin Yang twins, which is really funny.

我经常想到这一点，因为唱片公司原本想把这首歌作为主打单曲。

I think about it a lot because the label wanted that to be the first single.

这正是《In The Zone》专辑里一件挺有趣的事。

And like that's kind of one of the funny things about In The Zone.

有些曲目就像是被封存在2003年的琥珀里一样。

There are some tracks that are kind of like preserved in amber from 2003.

比如，当时大家觉得《Ignition》很火。

Like the idea where you're like, okay, Ignition is popular.

所以我们必须让R·凯利写一首宝莱坞风格的歌，再让斯努普·道格演你的恋人——这简直太离谱了。

We must have R Kelly write a Bollywood song, and we're gonna have Snoop Dogg play your love interest, which was out is outrageous.

那是另一首单曲。

That was the other single.

人们第一次听到《Toxic》时，竟然没觉得‘这就是主打歌’，这真是难以置信。

It's unbelievable that people heard Toxic, though, for the first time and weren't like, oh, that's the one.

而且人们当时真没觉得它是。

And and people didn't think it was.

我也经常想到珍妮特·杰克逊。

I think of Janet Jackson a lot as well.

比如我想起《Control》这张专辑。

Like, I think about control.

对吧？

Right?

像Britney的歌《Overprotected》，她其实是在寻求掌控权。

Like a Britney song, like Overprotected, you know, she's she's asking for control.

她在抱怨自己无法掌控自己的事业。

She's complaining about not having control of her own career.

而且，你知道，我会想到《控制》这张专辑有多直白，珍妮特·杰克逊说，这是我的决定。

And, you know, I think about how literal the control album was and Janet Jackson saying, you know, this is my decision now.

你知道，在《毒药》时期，或者《黑屏》时期，我们是否最接近听到布兰妮自己想听到的声音，最接近她版本的《控制》？

You know, in the Toxic era, you know, the blackout era maybe, are we the closest we ever got to hearing Britney the way she wanted to hear herself as close as we got to her version of a control?

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，从一开始就有种拉扯感。

I mean, I think there's like a push and pull there from the very beginning.

对吧？

Right?

她的形象是由Jive唱片的那些操盘手构建的，他们把她塑造成一个典型的美国女孩，穿着天主教女校的校服。

Her image is constructed kind of by these Jive records kind of handlers, you know, that are kind of making her the all American girl, you know, with a Catholic school girl outfit.

但即使从一开始，我就觉得她是有自主性的。

But even from the beginning, I think there was an agency with her.

你知道，她首支单曲《爱的初告白》的音乐录影带，他们原本想搞一个像《金刚战士》那样的卡通儿童主题。

You know, her first video for Hit Me Baby One More Time famously, you know, they wanted to have like a kind of Power Rangers, like animated kiddie thing theme.

那只会毁掉她的职业生涯。

And that would have just ruined her career.

这根本不可能，我

It it never would I

我觉得不会。

think so.

当然，是她自己想要穿那套天主教女学生制服的。

And she, of course, was the one that wanted the the Catholic school girl outfit.

你知道吗？

You know?

就连《In The Zone》的前两首单曲，Jive 都想搞得很夸张，比如那首 Yin Yang Twins 的歌，我确实记得那个 boom boom，但我们就当它是 Yin Yang Twins 的歌吧。

And then even for the first two singles, I think off of In The Zone, like, Jive wanted it to be outrageous And the Yin Yang Twins song, which I I I got that boom boom, but we'll just it's just the Yin Yang Twins song.

是的。

Yes.

而想要《Me Against the Music》的是布兰妮，后来他们又在第二支单曲上和她争执，那首歌显然就是《Toxic》。

And Britney was the one that wanted me against the music, and then they were fighting with her over the second single, which obviously was Toxic.

所以我觉得她看起来就像个舞者。

So I think she would look, she was a dancer.

而且我觉得她身上有种那种节奏轻快的特质。

And like, I think there was that kind of uptempo like thing about her.

而像布兰妮这样出色的舞者，几乎赋予了她一种超自然的直觉，知道什么能成为优秀的舞曲安可曲，就像许多优秀的说唱制作人对DJ那样，因为他们知道什么才有效。

And like, it's sort of Britney being such a good dancer almost gave her like a preternatural sense of what would make a good dance floor anthem, kind of almost in the way that a lot of great rap producers are for DJs because they know what works.

这确实很有道理。

Now that makes a lot of sense.

在她的回忆录中，她提到了麦当娜。

And I in her memoir, she talks about Madonna.

对吧？

Right?

她谈到麦当娜的视频拍摄曾因一个小小的服装问题而停工，麦当娜说：‘这个问题不解决，谁都不准动。’

She talks about Madonna, like production on the video shutting down because Madonna's got some minor wardrobe issue, and Madonna's like, nobody does anything until this is solved.

而布兰妮却说：‘我简直不敢相信你能这么做。'

And Britney being like, I can't believe that you could do that.

我简直不敢相信，你真的可以发号施令，所有人都得听你的，而我却得听从每一个人。

I can't believe that you can actually, like, call the shots and everyone has to listen to you versus me having to listen to everyone.

你知道的，麦当娜的那首歌很棒，但更重要的是她们两个人的相遇。

Like, it's you know, the Madonna song is a great song, but also just the the meeting of the two of them.

我只是希望麦当娜能把她的那种魅力分一点给布兰妮，看看如果布兰妮也有同样的自主权，会发生什么。

Like, I just want Madonna to transfer, you know, some percentage of her mojo to Britney Spears just to see what would have happened, you know, again, if Britney had had the same kind of autonomy.

我的意思是，她确实尝试过带布兰妮接触卡巴拉。

I mean, she definitely tried with getting her into cabala.

我想我们没错。

So think we had Right.

那是第一步。

That's the first step.

没错。

There.

这很重要，是的。

That's an important yeah.

那就是

That's

对。

Yeah.

那个大红腕带的时代，你手腕上戴着一个大红腕带

The big red that was a big red wristband around your wrist era

在洛杉矶

in Los

洛杉矶，我现在觉得这种事多么古朴而迷人，你当时觉得那不过是明星圈里一种奇怪又贵得离谱的红色手环。

Angeles, which I love how quaint and charming it is now where you're like, oh, that's a celebrity trend was was just a weird overpriced red bracelet.

你知道，在洛杉矶生活，这本书如此深刻地描绘了近距离观察流行明星机器和小报机器的体验。

How does being in LA you know, the book is so much about the experience of seeing, you know, the pop star machine and the tabloid machine up close.

比如，在洛杉矶生活让你对成为流行明星有了什么认识？

Like, what does being in LA teach you about being a pop star?

你近距离接触这一切，有没有学到什么好的东西？

And do you learn anything good from being so close to the action?

没什么好学的。

There's nothing good to learn.

这简直就是地狱般的烈火末日。

It's all it's it's all a hellish fiery pit of apocalypse.

是的。

Yeah.

我打算

I'm gonna

我是个纳撒尼尔·韦斯特的粉丝，但你知道，最后一幕城市燃烧时，确实有一些值得探讨的观点。

this Nathaniel West fan, but, you know, there were points to be made in the last scene where the city burns.

但我觉得，在洛杉矶长大并身处这种环境，你会逐渐对名气产生抗体和免疫力，甚至对它产生过敏——至少我是这样。

But I think growing up in LA and like being around this, you kind of develop like both antibodies and an immunity to fame and an allergy to it, or at least I did.

我觉得它非常令人反感，这让我在做小报相关事情时能保持淡定，因为我只是觉得：哦，这真没意思。

Like I found it very repulsive, which sort of allowed me to kind of be non plussed when I was kind of doing the tabloid stuff because I just was like, Oh, this is not cool.

但与此同时，我也没有被它影响。

But at the same time, I wasn't fazed by it.

所以我觉得洛杉矶很奇怪。

So I think it's weird about LA.

你知道，它总是存在着光明与黑暗的对立，因为总会有无数人来到洛杉矶追求成名，但大多数人最终都失败了。

It's that, you know, it's always going to have that like light and dark dialectic because there's always going be all these famous people that come to LA to make it and most don't.

然后你就会看到那些成功的人。

And then you see the ones that do.

我认为对某种类型的人来说，这极具吸引力，就像你提到的麦当娜比喻，他们能得到自己想要的一切。

And I think to a certain type of person, it's incredibly alluring because like, you know, as you were saying about the Madonna analogy, like they would get everything they want.

比如，他们会把整个地方包场。

Like, you know, they would shut it down.

当然，他不是来自洛杉矶，但我永远记得有一次，小韦恩在这里住了很久，我为XXL杂志封面采访过他。

Like obviously he's not from LA, but I'll never forget one time, little Wayne, you know, was living out here for a long time, and I did an interview with him for like the cover of XXL.

但他坚持要求他的房车里必须有ESPN频道，否则就不现身。

And he wouldn't show up unless they had ESPN in his trailer.

我当时就想：我不做这个封面了。

And it's like, I'm not doing the cover.