Rachel Bilson on Taking a Pause

我只做那些我百分百认同的事情，那些真正对我和我孩子都有好处的事。

I work only if it's something I 1000% believe in, something that will absolutely work for my child and myself.

这在某种程度上限制了我，但我觉得其他所有事情都重要得多。

And it actually limits me in a way, but I see all all the other things being just that much more important.

我是卡莉·扎金，这是丹妮尔·韦斯伯格。

I'm Carly Zakin, and I'm Danielle Weisberg.

欢迎收听《九到五之间》与肌肤对话。

Welcome to nine to five ish with the skin.

这些年来，我们遇到过无数问题，也经历过许多需要建议的时刻，而那些过来人的女性给了我们答案。

We've run into so many questions over the years and had so many moments where we needed advice, and we got it from women who'd been there.

而这正是我们在这档节目里想带给你们的。

And that's what we're bringing you at this show.

每周，我们都会邀请我们认识的最聪明的领导者，帮你打造理想的职业生涯。

Each week, we're helping you get what you want out of your career by talking to the smartest leaders we know.

因为我们知道，你的工作远不止朝九晚五那么简单。

Because we know your work life is a lot more than nine to five.

好了。

Alright.

我们开始吧。

Let's get into it.

大家好。

Hi, everyone.

我是卡莉。

It is Carly.

今天我们的嘉宾是蕾切尔·比尔森。

Today, my guest is Rachel Bilson.

蕾切尔是一位演员，因在热门剧集《橘子郡男孩》中饰演萨默·罗伯茨而广为人知。

Rachel is an actress who is best known for playing Summer Roberts in the hit 2,000 show The OC.

之后，她还出演了《老爸老妈的浪漫史》《南方之心》和《跳跃者》等电视剧和电影。

Since then, she has starred in TV shows and movies like How I Met Your Mother, The Heart of Dixie, and Jumper.

现在，她主持着两档播客节目。

Now she is the host of two podcasts.

其中一个叫《欢迎来到OC婊子们》，她和一位前搭档一起带领听众回顾《橘子郡男孩》每一集的幕后故事。

One is called Welcome to the OC Bitches, where she and a former costar take a trip down memory lane by giving listeners a behind the scenes look at episodes of The OC.

她最新的播客叫《Rachel Bilson的女性观点》，就像和闺蜜们一起喝着酒聊个痛快。

Her latest podcast is called Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson, which is basically like tuning into an audio happy hour with your girlfriends.

Rachel 和她最好的朋友、联合主持人 Olivia Allen 会邀请朋友来聊各种禁忌话题——性、心理健康、当父母的真实状况，还有很多别的。

Rachel and her best friend turned co host Olivia Allen invite friends on the show to talk all things taboo, sex, mental health, the reality of being a parent, and so much more.

Rachel，欢迎来到节目。

Rachel, welcome to the show.

非常感谢你邀请我。

Thanks so much for having me.

这个开场太暖心了。

What a nice introduction.

我真是太兴奋了。

Well, I am so excited.

我感觉自己有点粉丝上头了，因为我真的是你的铁粉。

I feel like I am kinda geeking out because I'm a big fan.

那我们先来个快问快答吧。

So we're gonna start off with a lightning round.

你平时都同意吗？

Are you Yes,

当然了。

absolutely.

那

What

你第一份有报酬的工作是什么？

was the first job you ever got paid for?

我第一份有报酬的工作？

I ever got paid for?

是的。

Yeah.

我在一家叫西西里的餐厅当过迎宾。

I was a hostess at a restaurant called Sicily.

好的。

Okay.

在谢尔曼奥克斯。

In Sherman Oaks.

但我记得，我和朋友们被拉去参加圣路易斯-奥比斯波的大学派对。

But I was thinking like my friends and I got roped into this thing going to college parties in San Luis Obispo.

不知怎么的，还跟《花花公子》扯上了关系。

And for some reason it was tied into Playboy.

完全不知道是怎么回事。

No idea how.

等等，好吧。

Wait, okay.

是的。

Yeah.

不是。

No.

我们没裸着，穿得整整齐齐的，一点不露骨。

We were not naked.

我们穿得完完整整，跟平常一样，没任何不妥。

We were fully clothed like nothing obscene.

我真记不清这事儿是怎么发生的了，但记得收到过一本《花花公子》的稿费，当时我就惊了。

I can't even remember how it came about but I remember getting a paycheck from Playboy and I was like, oh my god.

等等。

Wait.

这太搞笑了。

That's hilarious.

是啊。

Yeah.

你这么一说，我想起来了。

That just triggered my memory.

这事儿我大概有二十年没想过了吧。

I haven't thought about that in probably twenty years.

我们

We

太好笑了。

like Very funny.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

所以你是《花花公子》的员工。

So you were a Playboy employee.

真不错。

That's great.

好的。

Okay.

我想稍微回溯一下过去。

I wanna go actually like back in time for a second.

咱们来聊聊塞斯和萨默吧。

We're gonna talk about Seth and Summer.

你觉得他们现在还会在一起吗？

Do you think that they would be together today?

我肯定他们现在还在一起，要是分开了，那也太让人难过了吧。

I definitely think they would be together today because how depressing would that

要是他们没在一起，那得多糟啊。

be if they weren't?

谢谢。

Thank

不客气。

you.

毕竟他们经历了那么多，就让他们好好在一起吧。

Feel like, you know, after everything they went through, let's just keep them together.

咱们就让

Let's make

我真的很感谢你。

I them really appreciate that.

谢谢。

Thank you.

你最喜欢塞思·科恩的哪句台词？

What is your favorite Seth Cohen line of all time?

最喜欢塞思·科恩的台词？

Favorite Seth Cohen line?

亚当·布罗迪老是即兴发挥。

Adam Brody would always do improvs.

我喜欢他自称是‘烧烤专家’那句。

I like when he called himself a barbecuing est.

那句话挺让人印象深刻的。

That kind of stuck.

好的。

Okay.

你最近重新捡起了哪一种2000年左右的时尚潮流？

What is like a 2,000 fashion trend that you have brought back into your life?

明白了。

Okay.

我还没正式穿，但那种厚底人字拖，我以前发誓绝不会碰，现在却到处都能看到。

I haven't officially brought it back, but the platform flip flop, which I swore I would never embrace I see it everywhere.

我有点动心了。

I'm toying with it a little bit.

但我还没真的穿上。

I haven't officially done it.

是那种果冻材质的人字拖吗？

Is it like a jelly flip flop?

要是那样的话，可就全齐了。

Because that would make it like, you know, all things.

是的。

Yeah.

不是。

No.

就是，你还记得Rocket Dog那种厚底人字拖吗？

It's just like, do you remember Rocket Dog flip flop platforms?

对。

Yeah.

有点像是向那种风格致敬。

Like it's kind of an ode to that.

好的。

Okay.

我很期待在外面看到你穿它。

I look forward to seeing this out and about.

好的。

Okay.

你最近一口气看完的最后一个剧是哪个？

What is the last show that you binge watched?

我最近一口气看完的剧是《爱是盲目的》。

The last show that I binge watched was probably Love is Blind.

太好看了。

So good.

真的太好看了。

So good.

你最支持哪一对情侣？

Who who are you like rooting for the most?

天啊。

Oh, god.

好吧。

Okay.

这事儿大概发生在几个月前。

So this was like a couple months ago now.

他们的名字，我记得是谢恩和

So their names, I think, like, Shane and

谢恩和娜塔莉。

Shane and Natalie.

还有娜塔莉。

And Natalie.

我真的很喜欢娜塔莉。

I really liked Natalie.

我知道。

I know.

没错。

True.

特别喜欢。

A lot.

但她最后还是得离开。

Like she had to walk away, though.

她啊，就是在那件事之后不得不走的。

She oh, she had to after that last thing.

我当时就想，不对劲，这明显是警告信号。

And I was like, oh, red flag.

大大的警告信号。

Enormous red flag.

赶紧跑。

Run.

她确实跑了，我挺佩服她的。

And she did, and I respect that.

我也是。

I do too.

明白了。

Okay.

我懂你的感受。

I feel you.

我很高兴

I'm glad

你同意吧。

you agree.

你上一次为自己争取利益是什么时候？

When was the last time you negotiated for yourself?

天哪。

Oh my goodness.

我上一次为自己争取利益的时候。

Last time I negotiated for myself.

我觉得我经常这么做。

I feel like I do that all the time.

我记得有一次收到一份工作邀约，我拼命为自己和女儿争取，每当我为了孩子争取时，就觉得自己特别强大。

I think I got offered a job and I really fought for myself and my daughter and that always feels like I feel like I'm the strongest when I'm fighting for my kid.

只要是跟她有关的事。

Anything that has to do with her.

那时候我就穿上超级妈妈的战袍了。

That's when like the superhero mom pants come on.

你最爱唱的卡拉OK歌曲是哪一首？

What is your go to karaoke song?

我最爱唱的卡拉OK歌曲？

My go to karaoke song?

天哪。

Oh, man.

我特别喜欢《乡村路》。

I really like country roads.

选得好。

Good one.

好的。

Okay.

我们马上进入下一个话题。

We're gonna we're gonna jump in.

你早年在《橘子郡男孩》里出演过。

So you were on The OC early two thousands.

你那时候年纪轻轻就出名了。

You became famous, like, a very young age.

咱们回到那时候吧。

Just put us back into time.

那种感觉就像坐上了火箭一样？

Like, what was that just kind of like rocket ship like?

天哪。

Gosh.

是的。

Yeah.

拍《橘子郡男孩》的时候我21岁。

I was 21 on The OC.

幸运的是，那时候还没有社交媒体，这些东西都还没出现，但那确实是个一夜爆红的故事。

And luckily for us, there was no social media, none of that existed at the time, but it was kind of this overnight success story.

对吧？

Right?

我们那时候都是一起经历的，这么说吧。

And we were all in it together, so to speak.

米莎显然一飞冲天，上了所有杂志的封面，她当时才十六七岁，而那时候……

I obviously, Misha skyrocketed and was like on the cover of every magazine and she was only 16, 17 years old and Which by

说起来真让人难以置信，当时我知道你们年纪不一样，但十六七岁和二十一岁之间的差距真的很大。

the way, it's like crazy to think about because at the time I knew you guys weren't all the same age, but there's such a difference between like a 16, 17 year old and a 21 year old.

完全没错。

1000%.

她那么小就被推到那个位置上，要应对这么多事，我真的特别佩服她，换作我十六岁，肯定扛不住。她却特别成熟专业，看着真的特别棒。

And the fact that she was put in that position and had to handle all of that at that age, I mean, I commend her because don't know that I could have handled it at 16 years old and she was such a seasoned professional and it was a really, really cool thing to watch.

但因为我们彼此都在，而且我和亚当在剧集刚开始不久就在一起了，这份感情支持也帮了大忙。

But because we all had each other and obviously Adam and I had started dating pretty early on in the show, so the support of that helped a lot as well.

我们俩在那个年纪就已经挺稳重的了，这点也帮了忙。

And we've we're pretty domesticated for our age, which helped it too.

所以有彼此支持，大家又一起经历这些，我觉得这才是我们能撑过来的关键。

So having that support and all being in it together was crucial, I think, in just handling it.

如果你想想，要是这节目今天或者去年才开播，你觉得你的经历会有什么不同？

When you think about if the show had launched today or last year, how do you think that experience would have been different for you?

对你来说，哪些地方会不一样？

Like, what would have changed for you?

我觉得现在肯定难多了，因为我有了孩子，面对那样的成功和关注，压力会大很多。

Well, I think I think it would be a lot harder now because I have a kid with that amount of success and attention.

因为要照顾孩子，处理这些事、保护孩子，都会更棘手。

It'd be harder to handle and protect and all of that because of my child.

所以你说‘现在’，虽然我当时也年轻，但特别自由，随性得很。

So when you say, like, today, even though I was young, I was very free and, like, very, like, whatever.

那时候真没什么能让我烦心的。

Nothing really bothers me.

我就按自己的节奏过日子。

I'm, you know, just living my life.

但现在，经历了这么多，还要照顾一个新的生命，我觉得挑战会大得多。

And now because of all the life I've lived and having a new life to look after, I think it would be more of a challenge.

所以疫情期间，你暂停了演戏，把重心从电视剧和电影转向了音频和播客。

So in the pandemic, you paused acting, and you shifted your focus from TV and movies to audio to podcasts.

是的。

Yes.

疫情期间，很多人因为各种原因重新思考了自己的职业方向。

A lot of people rethought their careers for a variety of reasons during the pandemic.

对于那些也经历过，或者正在经历类似转变的听众来说，你能说说当时那种过渡是怎样的吗？

So for our listeners who maybe have gone through something similar or still going through it, like what was just that transition like?

就是，能不能带我们回到你刚转型的那个时刻？

Like just put us kind of in the moment of like when you transition?

正如我们都知道并亲身经历的那样，那时我们被困在家里，哪儿也去不了，谁也见不到。

Well, as we all know and had to experience, we were home and couldn't go anywhere and couldn't see anyone.

我一个人在家带女儿，当然很不容易，但也很珍贵，因为我终于有了和她相处的时间。

And I was home alone with my daughter and it was, of course, challenging, but also rewarding in that I got that time with her.

但我想着，既然没法去片场，也不能到处跑，那该怎么办呢？

But thinking about, okay, so I can't be on a TV set, I can't be traveling for whatever it is.

有人找我，想做个《橘子郡男孩》的重看播客。

I got approached to talk about doing a rewatch podcast for The OC.

我当时在家哪儿也去不了，说实话，重看这部剧还挺有意思的，因为我从来没正经看过，而且这也能让我在不能见面的时候，跟人保持联系。

And since I was home and couldn't leave and honestly rewatching that show because I've never actually watched it sounded like fun and a nice way to connect when you couldn't connect physically.

所以这个播客是疫情逼出来的，我能在家里带着孩子做，感觉特别美好。

So that was born out of necessity in the pandemic and I could do it at home with my kid and it was like this beautiful thing.

这真是一段特别充实的体验，因为我重新跟剧里好多人都 reconnect 了。

And it's been an amazing rewarding experience because I've reconnected with so many people from the show.

疫情是怎么改变你对……的看法的？

How did the pandemic change the way you think about?

我不太喜欢‘平衡’这个词，因为根本没人真有平衡，但你是怎么重新思考当妈妈、怎么陪孩子的？

And I hate the word like finding balance because I think it's like, nobody has balance, but like, how did it how did it shift the way you think about being a parent and like being there with your kid

还有怎么把握职业机会，把这两者结合起来？

and then also kind of seizing career opportunities and how to kind of marry the two?

特别有意思，就像我说的，我有了这么一段陪她的时光，别人很难有这种机会——不管是孩子上学、参加课外活动，还是自己忙工作。这让我真正看清了：虽然我一直知道当妈是最重要的，但这段经历让我无比清楚，我再也不想为了拍《哈特之地》《橘子郡男孩》，或者我之前那部每集都出场的剧，离开她那么久了。

It's so interesting because like I said, I got that time with her in a way that no one really gets, whether they're at school or they're extracurricular activities or you're working and it put it into perspective that like, even though I always knew this was number one for me being a mom and having a kid, It just made it so clear that I don't wanna spend the time away from her like I would have had I been on Hart of Dixie or The OC or even that other show I did take two where I was in every scene.

我当时就觉得，我不能离开她这么长时间。

It was like, I can't be away from her that much.

当个称职的妈妈，陪她去踢足球、参加女童军，或者任何她做的事，都太重要了。

It's way too important to be a present mother and driver to all of her soccer and Girl Scouts or whatever it is she's doing.

这件事变得无比重要，我也真正意识到了它的分量。

And that has taken such a forefront and realize how important it is.

我觉得很多人在疫情期间都给自己立了新规矩，比如等回到所谓正常生活后，我……

So I think a lot of us created kind of new rules for ourselves, like in in the pandemic of like, when I go back to quote unquote normal, I

我再也不会回去了。

will never go back

再也不回去了。

to blank.

对我来说，我再也不想每晚都为了工作应酬出去吃饭了。

So like for me, I was like, I will never go back to like being out every night for work for like a work dinner.

那种生活方式根本撑不下去。

Like, that that is just not sustainable.

我也再不会每周都坐飞机了，实在对身体太不好了。

I also will never go back to, like, being on a plane every week because it just wasn't healthy for me.

没错。

Right.

你们有没有给自己定下一些新规矩，比如有些事这辈子再也不干了？

Did you create new rules for yourselves that you're like, I will never do, like, again?

我确实定了。

So I did.

我决定再也不接那种我每一场戏都要出场的电视剧了。

I was like, I will never do a TV show where I'm in absolutely every scene.

每天工作十六个小时。

I work sixteen hour days.

根本没时间陪孩子。

I don't have any time for my kid.

但后来，总有意外的机会出现，你就会想，哎呀，现在接这个对其他方面其实也有帮助。

But then, you know, things come up and offers come up and you're like, oh gosh, well, that would be really helpful for other reasons to be doing that right now.

所以你会定下这些规矩，但它们得有点弹性，可以适当调整。

So you make these rules but they have to be moldable or you can change them a bit or adjust them.

但对我来说，最重要的是，只有当我100%认同这件事，觉得它真的对我和孩子都有好处时，我才愿意接。

But for me, it really is important that I work only if it's something I 1000% believe in, something that will absolutely work for my child and myself.

这确实限制了我，但我发现其他事情反而变得更重要了。

And it actually limits me in a way, but I see all the other things being just that much more important.

我觉得很多听众都经历过，我身边也有几个人在疫情期间特别头疼怎么和前任共同抚养孩子，光是实际安排就让人头大。

One of the things I think that a lot of our listeners have gone through and I know a few people in my personal life who've gone through is figuring out how to co parent with a partner in the pandemic because there's so many literal logistical challenges to that.

你一直很坦诚地提到你们的共同抚养关系特别好，想问问那些正在听的朋友们，当时疫情这么混乱，你们是怎么应对的？

And I think, you've spoken very openly about having a really positive co parenting relationship, but just for those that are listening, how did you navigate that when there was literally a logistical nightmare of a pandemic?

我以前说过，因为我和我女儿的爸爸住在一起，但分在两个房子。

Well, I've said this before because my daughter's father and I were in separate houses.

这样反而让她有喘息的空间，能体验两种不同的生活，累了也有地方可去。

It kind of gave her a little reprieve because she could experience two different environments and have somewhere to go.

所以从另一个角度看，这反而是件好事。

And so that was a positive spin on it.

她能出去走走。

She got to go out.

我真羡慕。

I'm so jealous.

是的，她能出去走走。

Yeah, she got to go out.

她从一辆车换到另一户人家，这可是件大事儿。

She drove from a car to another house and that was a big adventure.

算得上是不错的一天。

Good day.

但我们俩都特别认真，凡事都当真，所以一切都让她觉得特别安心。

But we were both so strict and took everything so seriously so everything felt very safe.

那时候我们配合得非常好。

So we managed really well at the time.

她那时候才五岁。

And she was five.

我们封城的时候她五岁吗？

Was she five when we went into lockdown?

天哪。

Oh my god.

现在回想起来，真觉得不可思议。

To think about it now, you're like It's crazy.

两年。

Two years.

整整两年。

Two years.

她那时候还小，朋友挺重要的，但现在比五岁时重要多了。

So she was young and friends were important but like way more important now than they were at five.

所以我们当时也算有这个条件。

So we kinda had that.

她还是特别想和爸妈待在一起，我们就想办法让日子过得有趣，真的把这事给应付过去了。

She still wanted to be with her parents and we made it fun for her and we really worked it out.

幸运的是，这对她和我们来说都不是一段负面的经历。

And luckily, it wasn't a negative experience for her or for us.

我想聊聊这个播客。

So I wanna talk about the podcast.

我先说说《橘子郡男孩》那期。

I wanna talk about The OC one first.

当然。

Sure.

回头再看，最让你意外的是什么？

What has been the most surprising thing about looking back?

我们刚开始看和重看的时候，我情绪特别激动，因为我在看21岁的自己。

When we first started watching and rewatching, I had a very emotional reaction because I'm watching myself at 21 years old.

我现在40岁了。

And I'm 40 now.

天哪，真是感慨。

And I'm like, holy crap.

想到我这些年来过的生活，经历的种种，整个人突然陷入了一种疯狂的反思，开始琢磨自己当初做的那些选择之类的。

Like, the life I have lived and like everything that has transpired since then and it kind of sent me into like this crazy spiral in my head of the choices I've made and things like that.

但说真的，这过程特别好，特别有疗愈效果，走出来之后我就觉得，行了，我挺好的。

And but it's actually been really great and really, really therapeutic because I've come out of it and I'm like, okay, I'm cool.

我现在在哪儿，做过些什么，都挺让人欣慰的。

Like, where I'm at, what I've done.

回头看看，感觉真不错。

It's nice to look back.

最夸张的是，我那时候怎么那么黑。

It's crazy to see how tan I am.

不过除此之外，整个经历真的特别正面。

But other than that, it's just been a it's been a very positive experience.

而且能一直和梅琳达·克拉克待在一起，也特别开心。

And it's also really fun to get to hang out with Melinda Clark all the time.

我们俩都挺享受这个过程的。

And we're enjoying it.

当你回看那些你参与过的旧节目时，感觉挺奇怪的

When you look at kind of these old episodes that you're in and it's sort of

在这段回忆之旅里，你觉得你自己有什么没变？

on this memory lane, what do you think is the same about you?

又有哪些地方让你觉得，天啊，这根本是另一个人吗？

And what do you what are you like, oh my god, that is like a different person?

就像我说的，那时候化那么多妆、涂那么多古铜色护肤品，真让人吓一跳。

Well, like I said, the amount of makeup and bronzer and all of that is very jarring.

我也说不准。

And I don't know.

但我还是挺佩服年轻时候的自己的，那时候真的无忧无虑，这种状态特别珍贵，值得珍惜，也提醒我别把生活看得太沉重，尤其现在这年头。

I still feel like I admire when I see myself young because like I said, I was pretty carefree and that's something really nice to grasp and hold on to and try to not take things so seriously even though life can be so serious, especially now.

看着那个更快乐、更轻松的自己，真是一种美好的提醒。

But it's nice to watch that version of myself and be reminded of the happy, fun, more carefree times.

我最讨厌别人问我这种问题了，但不管怎样，我还是得问你一下。

I always hate when people ask me this, but I'm still gonna ask you anyway.

当你看21岁、22岁的瑞秋时，你想对她说什么？

When you like you look at like 21, 22 year old Rachel, like what do you want to tell her?

你对即将经历的这段旅程想说点什么？

What do you want to say about like the ride you're about to be on?

天哪。

Oh my god.

我想说，现在回头看，你真的能挺过一切。

I do wanna say because looking back now, you can survive anything.

这是我学到的最重要的一课。

And that is a huge, huge lesson I've learned.

不管发生什么，不管遇到什么，不管命运给你什么，你都能熬过去。

Like, no matter what happens, no matter what comes at you, matter what you're dealt, you will survive it.

在这档节目里，我们聊得很多。

On this show, we talk a lot.

这是一档关于职业的播客，尤其是考虑到我们过去几年所经历的一切。

It's a career podcast, especially given what we've all been through in the last few years.

我们经常聊心理健康，聊个人生活怎么和职业发展交织在一起。

It's very much we talk about mental health and we talk about kind of how the personal interweaves itself with the professional.

你说人能挺过任何事，我完全同意。

When you say that you can survive anything, I completely agree with you.

所以我一直觉得，健康才是你最该在意的事。

And why I'm always like the health is the most important thing you have to worry about.

你得有能力挺过一切。

You want to be able to survive everything.

你平时靠什么挺过来？是工具、人脉，还是别的？你靠什么撑过那些难关？

What are the tools that you lean on tools, people, like whatever it is, like, what do you lean on to be able to survive anything?

当然，我连续做了三年心理咨询。

Sure, I've been in therapy consecutively for three years.

真的特别有帮助。

And it's so helpful.

我不明白，为什么到现在还有人对心理咨询有偏见。

I don't know why there's can still be a stigma with therapy.

但对我而言，它真的非常有帮助。

But it has been very beneficial for me.

它不断提醒我，再难的事我也能挺过来，尤其是我记性这么差的时候。

And it's a constant reminder of being able to survive anything, especially with me with no memory.

她会提醒我那些我曾经经历并熬过来的事，这真的很重要。

Like, she'll remind me of like things that I've gone through and survived, but that's an important tool.

还有，想到孩子们总是活在当下，能有这么多时间陪女儿，也让我更能专注眼前。

Also, like reminding myself kids are so present and being able to spend the amount of time I do with my daughter, it keeps me present.

这真是个特别温暖的提醒，意义重大。

And it's such a nice reminder, which is huge.

今天早上我们读了一本叫《哈蒂，担忧侦探》的书，名字大概是这样。

And we were reading a book this morning called Hattie, The Worry Detective, something.

说起来，我觉得这本书可能是伊丽莎白·奥尔森写的。

Anyway, I I feel like Elizabeth Olsen maybe wrote it.

我记得书上写的作者名字好像是这个。

I think that's what the author the name was on it.

今天早上我们还在读这本书，这只小猫正在教她所有学校里的朋友应对各种情况的方法。

And we were reading it this morning, and this little cat is giving all of her little school friends tools to deal with things.

深呼吸。

Breathing.

还有一个减压球。

There's a stress ball.

还有很多别的小工具。

There's all these things.

我觉得教孩子这些真的很好。

And I'm like, that's great to teach

越早越好。

them young.

对，没错。

I'm like, yeah.

不是的。

No.

我正在向焦虑侦探哈蒂学习。

I'm learning from Hattie, the worry detective.

我觉得吧

I'm like

你是不是在想，哈蒂有没有给成年人开的课？

You're like, does Hattie do an adult workshop?

真的。

Seriously.

我在想，我的减压球在哪呢？

I'm like, where's my stress ball?

不过呢。

But yeah.

我觉得这么小就教孩子们这些应对方法，真的很棒。

And I think it's like giving the kids these tools this young is awesome.

不过呢。

But yeah.

这种做法会一直提醒我，真的帮了大忙。

I mean, it's a constant reminder and it's really helpful.

那你的另一档播客，对了，

So your other podcast Yes.

就是《Broad Ideas》，没错，

Broad Ideas Yes.

其实就是围绕敞开心扉展开的，很多内容都和你说的这些是相通的

Is really about being vulnerable and talking about a lot of this

诸如此类的。

stuff.

对。

Yes.

你以前跟朋友相处的时候，一直都能坦然流露自己的脆弱吗

Were you like always vulnerable with your friends

还有职业生涯里和同事相处的时候也是这样吗？

and coworkers throughout your career?

我这个人坦诚得有点过头了。

I am an open book to a fault.

任何了解我、跟我关系近的人，都清楚我所有的细枝末节，因为我就是这样的人。

Anyone who knows me well or is close to me, they know every absolutely every little detail about me because that's just how I am.

在公众面前，比如工作上或个人关系里，我一直挺保守的，现在也还是这样。

I've been very private publicly, you know, in my career and in my personal relationships and I still am when it comes to that stuff.

但那些大家觉得不好意思谈的事——比如性、感情、孩子、当妈妈这些，我和闺蜜们聊起来可没完没了。

But the things that seem taboo to talk about or the things that my girlfriends and I will go into at length, sex, relationships, kids, motherhood, all of it.

我想创造一个安全的空间，让大家能自由讨论这些事，意识到原来这些都很正常，也完全不用担心。

I wanted to create a safe platform to be able to talk about these things and realize like, it's so normal and it's a safe space to do that.

说白了，就是你跟最好的闺蜜私下聊的内容。

It's basically what you talk about with your best girlfriends.

哪一期话题让你收到的反馈最多？

What's been the episode topic that's gotten you the most?

我最得意、也最自豪的一期，是我最好的朋友，另一个闺蜜，莉亚。

So my favorite one that I'm the most proud of is my best friend, my other best friend, Leah.

她在我们一期关于‘不忠’的主题节目中分享了自己的经历。

She shared her story in our, one of our topic episodes entitled, infidelity.

她的故事特别打动人心。

And she has such a riveting story.

她那么坦诚、那么脆弱，我真的很为她骄傲。

And the fact that she was so open and so vulnerable, I feel so proud.

我们收到的反响特别大，你知道吗？

And the reaction and response we've gotten has been huge, you know?

是的。

And Yeah.

她不是名人。

She's not a celebrity.

她就是一个普通人，毫无保留地讲出了自己的故事。

She's a human being sharing her story raw and open.

那真的太美了。

And it was so beautiful.

我真的很为她感到骄傲。

And I'm so proud of her.

这绝对是我觉得最棒的一集。

And that's definitely my favorite episode.

但凡愿意敞开心扉来分享的嘉宾，都给了我特别棒的体验。

But also everyone that's come on and has been willing to be open has been such a great experience.

我觉得特别有意思的一点是，你就像你说的那样，对这些事特别坦诚。

I think one of the things that I find super fascinating is, as you said, like you seemingly are super open, like talking about all this stuff.

但你是个公众人物，还有个女儿，显然有些事你还是藏得很深。

But you are a public figure, you have a daughter, like you obviously keep stuff kind of close to the vest.

那你是怎么给自己划这条线的？在你的职业生涯里？

And like, how do you draw that line for yourself, like for your professional life?

我这么问是因为，对那些在听的朋友们来说，如果你身居领导岗位——不管你是创业者、演员，

And I ask that because, you know, for those that are listening that are in a leadership position, whatever it is, they could be a founder, they could be an actor.

还是高管，正在上升期的高管。

They could be an executive, rising executive.

总有一种两难，一方面想真实地做自己，另一方面又得当老板，有些事反而不能全说出来。

There is kind of always this, like, song and dance of, like, you wanna show up and be your full authentic self, but you also sometimes need to be the boss and need to not necessarily show everything about yourself.

没错。

Right.

这一点我 personally 特别纠结。

And it's something like I personally really struggled with.

所以我很想知道，你作为名人，一举一动都有那么多人盯着。

And so I'm curious, like you're doing that as a celebrity, like with a lot more eyeballs on you.

没错。

Right.

那你到底是怎么把握这个分寸的？

What like how do you navigate that?

我觉得有些事值得公开谈，比如心理健康，或者你正在经历的其他困难。

There's things that I think are important to be open about and talk about whether it's mental health or other, you know, struggles that you're dealing with.

作为女性，我一向特别敬佩克里斯汀·贝尔，她总是那么坦诚。

As a woman, I've always really looked up to Kristen Bell, who is so open and

你在这档节目里也请过她。

You've had on this show as well.

她是我特别要好的朋友。

She's, you know, a dear friend of mine.

我们认识很多年了。

We've been friends for a very long time.

我一直很欣赏她，还有她和达克斯的关系，这对我来说是特别好的榜样，也给了我更多勇气去坦诚分享。

I've always admired that and her and her relationship with Dax and and that's a really great role model for me and gives me the confidence to share more openly.

有些事我不会细说，毕竟涉及别人的隐私，我只能分享我自己的经历。

There's certain things like I won't go into detail about because of privacy of others and things like that, and I can only share from my own personal experiences.

当然，我也很保护我女儿。

And I'm protective over my daughter too, of course.

但我觉得很重要的是让大家知道，每个人都会经历类似的事。

But I think it's important to to show that everyone goes through the same things.

你之前在节目里已经聊了很多关于你女性朋友的事。

You've talked a lot on the show already around your girlfriends.