99% Invisible - 药物故事:伊维菌素 封面

药物故事:伊维菌素

Drug Story: Ivermectin

本集简介

最初作为治疗河盲症的革命性疗法,最终演变成了一场更加混乱的局面。 在您常用的播客平台收听《Drug Story》! 订阅 SiriusXM Podcasts+,即可无广告收听《99% Invisible》新 episodes,并提前一周收听。 立即在 Apple 播客或访问 siriusxm.com/podcastsplus 开始免费试用。 由 Simplecast(AdsWizz 公司旗下)托管。有关我们为广告目的收集和使用个人数据的信息,请参阅 pcm.adswizz.com。

双语字幕

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Speaker 0

这是《99% 隐形》。

This is 99% Invisible.

Speaker 0

我是罗曼·马尔斯。

I'm Roman Mars.

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每一种疾病、不适或病症,都对应着一种药物。

For every disease, illness, or discomfort, there is a drug.

Speaker 0

药物多得数不清。

There are so many drugs.

Speaker 0

有些药看似能创造奇迹、改变世界,而有些药则被用来对抗某种疾病长达数十年,最后才发现它们几乎毫无作用。

Drugs that seemingly work miracles and change the world and drugs that are put in the service of fighting a malady for decades only to learn much too late that they have almost no effect at all.

Speaker 0

你可以通过我们服用的药物,以及这些药物旨在控制的疾病,来讲述整个世界的故事。

You could tell the story of the world through the drugs we take and the diseases they are designed to manage.

Speaker 0

新播客《药物故事》讲的正是这个。

This is what the new podcast Drug Story is all about.

Speaker 0

在这档节目中,创作者兼主持人托马斯·戈尔茨每次聚焦一种药物,讲述医药产业背后的故事。

On the show, creator and host Thomas Goetz tells the story of the disease business one drug at a time.

Speaker 0

每集聚焦一种疾病和一种药物。

Each episode explores one disease and one drug.

Speaker 0

药物成了我们观察这个世界的一扇绝佳窗口。

Drugs end up being an incredible lens to view our world.

Speaker 0

本周我们带来《Drug Story》的一集,这是一档独立的纪实类播客,如今这种类型的节目已经很少见了,却绝对值得你认真听一听。

This week, we are featuring an episode of Drug Story, an independent documentary journalism podcast, the kind of podcast you just don't hear about anymore and one that deserves your full attention.

Speaker 0

真的特别棒。

It is so good.

Speaker 0

我每一集都听过了。

I've listened to every episode.

Speaker 0

这是我的最爱之一。

Here's one of my favorites.

Speaker 1

想象一下,每天皮肤瘙痒,一刻不停。

Imagine living with constant itching that never stops.

Speaker 1

或者视力慢慢衰退,不是因为年纪大了,而是被一只小小的苍蝇叮了一口。

Or slowly losing your sight, not because of age, but because of a simple fly bite.

Speaker 1

这就是盘尾丝虫病的现实,也叫河盲症。

That is the reality of onchosarcoidosis, Also known as river blindness.

Speaker 1

只要每年服用一到两次这种小小的药片。

One small tablet of ivermectin.

Speaker 1

就能阻断传播,保护整个社区。

Taken once or twice a year helps stop transmission and protects entire communities.

Speaker 1

这就是瘙痒停止的方式。

This is how itching stops.

Speaker 1

这就是预防失明的方法。

This is how blindness is prevented.

Speaker 1

这就是一代人远离河盲症成长起来的途径。

And this is how a generation grows up free from river blindness.

Speaker 2

想象一下,你是一条蠕虫,一种特别的蠕虫——盘尾丝虫。

Imagine that you are a worm, a very specific kind of worm, unco cerca volvulus.

Speaker 2

你一生的目标、使命、唯一的目的,就是钻进人体里。

Your goal in life, your mission, your only purpose is to worm your way into the human body.

Speaker 2

你是个寄生虫。

You are a parasite.

Speaker 2

你得靠人体才能活下来,才能繁衍。

You need the human body to survive and to thrive.

Speaker 2

人类当然不会喜欢你。

Humans, perhaps understandably, do not care for you.

Speaker 2

他们咒骂你和你的幼虫,尤其是幼虫,因为一旦进入人体,它们就会到处乱窜。

They curse you and your larvae, your larvae especially, because once they get into humans, they squirm everywhere.

Speaker 2

它们钻进腿里,让人痒得受不了,那种痒简直让人发疯。

They crawl into legs, and they cause unbelievable itching, horrible, infernal itching.

Speaker 2

一旦它们爬进眼睛,人就会失明。

And when they writhe into the eyes, humans go blind.

Speaker 2

几个世纪以来,人类除了恨你,别无他法。

For centuries, there was nothing humans could do but spite you.

Speaker 2

但后来,他们发现了一种药片,一种能杀死你宝贝的药。

But then they found a pill, a horrible pill that kills your darlings.

Speaker 2

这种药,伊维菌素,让寄生虫的日子非常不好过。

This pill, ivermectin, makes life very difficult for a parasite.

Speaker 2

欢迎来到《药物故事》。

Welcome to Drug Story.

Speaker 2

我是托马斯·戈尔茨。

I'm Thomas Goetz.

Speaker 2

今天要讲的药是伊维菌素,它真是一种神药,堪称奇迹般的疗法。

Today's drug is ivermectin, which truly is a wonder drug, a veritable miracle cure.

Speaker 2

它对杀死引发河盲症或象皮病的寄生虫特别有效。

It is really, really good at killing parasites that cause diseases like river blindness or elephantiasis.

Speaker 2

这些热带病主要发生在非洲、南美洲或亚洲部分地区。

These tropical diseases mostly happen in Africa or South America or parts of Asia.

Speaker 2

伊维菌素对钩虫也有效,一个世纪前,钩虫病在美国南部非常普遍。

Ivermectin is also effective against hookworm, which a century ago was endemic in the Southern United States.

Speaker 2

它对心丝虫也管用,能保护狗、猫等宠物,还能杀死马和其他家畜体内的寄生虫。

And it's good on heartworm, which affects pets, dogs, and cats, and it kills parasites in horses or other livestock.

Speaker 2

但在美国,现在人们提到伊维菌素,大概不是因为它能治疗河盲症,而是别的用途。

But in The United States, these days, you have probably heard of ivermectin not as a treatment for river blindness, but for different purposes altogether.

Speaker 3

我刚做了一次驱虫疗程。

I just did a parasite cleanse.

Speaker 3

我真没想到自己会说出这种话。

I never thought those words would come out of me.

Speaker 3

真有东西从我身体里排出来了。

Things literally came out of me.

Speaker 4

我上次病得很重的时候,就用过伊维菌素。

I've used Ivermectin when I was really sick with

Speaker 2

我得承认。

I have to.

Speaker 4

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 4

说实话,我觉得吧,我看过不少研究。

And honestly, I actually think, you know, I've seen a lot of studies.

Speaker 4

我觉得一年用一两次来清理身体,其实也没什么坏处。

I think that it's probably not a bad idea to use it once or twice a year to cleanse it out of your body.

Speaker 4

对吧?

Right?

Speaker 5

没错。

Right.

Speaker 5

我的一些病人会用伊维菌素来预防病毒感染。

Some of my patients will take Ivermectin as a prevention for viral illnesses.

Speaker 5

完全没问题。

Totally fine.

Speaker 5

非常安全。

Totally safe.

Speaker 6

我用的是每12小时一次,每次12毫克,连续七天。

I use Ivermectin for twelve by twelve, seven days, which is every twelve hours, twelve milligrams for seven days.

Speaker 6

这么用是因为最近越来越多的研究都在说伊维菌素有抗癌作用。

And the reason is all the literature that's coming out about Ivermectin as an anticancer.

Speaker 7

你知道自己体内可能有寄生虫吗?该怎么清除呢?

You know if you have a hidden parasite and how do you get rid of it?

Speaker 7

他们建议做一次驱虫排毒,不过这事你得咨询自己的医生,因为我没有行医执照。但我自己确实会服用伊维菌素和苯并咪唑。

They recommend doing a parasitic detox, which you should talk to your own doctor about because I am not licensed to practice medicine, but I do take a form of ivermectin and venbendazole.

Speaker 2

所以,没错,我查了下谷歌,现在YouTube上已经有成千上万条视频在大力推荐伊维菌素。

So, yeah, Google tells me that right now there are many tens of thousands of videos on YouTube raving about ivermectin.

Speaker 2

但癌症、驱虫排毒、还有病毒?

But cancer, parasite cleanses, and viruses?

Speaker 2

这到底是个什么药?

What is this drug?

Speaker 2

伊维菌素到底起什么作用?

What does ivermectin do really?

Speaker 2

在本期《药物故事》中,我们要讲讲伊维菌素——这种神奇的药物。

In this episode of Drug Story, we're going to tell the story of ivermectin, this amazing medicine.

Speaker 2

我们会聊很多关于寄生虫的事,也会深入探究,为什么那么多人在YouTube和Instagram上热议伊维菌素,他们希望它能治什么,又相信它对什么有效。

We are going to talk about parasites a lot, and we will dig into what got all those people on YouTube and Instagram talking about Ivermectin, what they hope it could be, what they believe it works on.

Speaker 2

不只是寄生虫病,连新冠这样的病毒性疾病,甚至癌症,如果真有证据表明它对这些病有效,那就太好了。

Not just parasitic diseases, but viral diseases like COVID or even cancer, which would be great if there's, you know, evidence that it actually works for those other diseases.

Speaker 2

今天我们会以开放的心态、敞开的笔记本,以及对科学的开放态度,来探讨这个问题,接下来是《药物故事》。

We're going to explore that today with an open mind, an open notebook, and an open door to science in the drug story ahead.

Speaker 2

我们每期节目都分三部分:诊断、处方和副作用。

We tell each episode in three parts, the diagnosis, the prescription, and side effects.

Speaker 2

这是第一部分——诊断,我们会深入探讨这种药物背后的疾病,或者更准确地说,这些疾病。

This is part one, the diagnosis, where we explore the disease behind the drug, or in this case, the diseases.

Speaker 2

因为伊维菌素已被证实对多种疾病有效,而这些疾病有一个共同点。

Because ivermectin is proven to work on many diseases, diseases with one thing in common.

Speaker 2

它们不是由细菌或病毒引起的,而是由一种动物——寄生虫引起的。

They are caused not by a bacteria or a virus, but by an animal, a parasite.

Speaker 2

很多时候,这是一种叫做蠕虫的生物。

Oftentimes, it's a type of worm called a helminth.

Speaker 2

从技术上讲,寄生虫是指生活在其他生物体内或体表,并以它为生的生物。

Now technically speaking, a parasite is an organism that lives inside or on another creature and feeds off of it.

Speaker 2

蜱虫是寄生虫,虱子也是,还有那种吃舌头的虱子。

A tick is a parasite, so are lice, as is the tongue eating louse.

Speaker 2

就是这种小甲壳类动物。

That's this little crustacean.

Speaker 2

它跟虾是近亲,会游进鱼的鳃里,然后钻进鱼嘴里,把鱼的舌头吃掉。

It's a relative of a shrimp that swims into a fish's gills, winds its way into the mouth, and then eats the fish's tongue.

Speaker 2

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 2

你猜怎么着。

And get this.

Speaker 2

然后它就取代了那条舌头的位置。

It then takes the place of that tongue.

Speaker 2

它待在鱼嘴里,像舌头一样帮鱼吃东西,偶尔还自己偷吃一口。

It lives there in the mouth, helping the fish eat just as a tongue would, but taking a nibble of food every now and again.

Speaker 2

这就是寄生虫,朋友们。

That, my friends, is a parasite.

Speaker 2

地球上可能有成千上万,甚至上百万种寄生生物。

There are thousands, maybe millions of parasites on Earth.

Speaker 2

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 2

光是想想就让人浑身发毛。

It just makes your skin crawl.

Speaker 2

事实上,还真有一种病叫妄想性寄生症,也叫妄想性寄生感染,患者会坚信自己身上有寄生虫。

In fact, there's actually a condition called delusional infestation, also called delusional parasitosis, where people are convinced that they have parasites.

Speaker 2

你现在可能就有点这种感觉,好像有什么东西在皮肤上爬,袜子底下,或者衬衫里面。

You might feel a bit of this right now, feeling like something is crawling on your skin, under your socks, maybe under your shirt.

Speaker 2

有点发痒。

It's a little itchy.

Speaker 2

不过,寄生虫排毒疗法根本没用。

And, no, a parasitic cleanse is not the answer.

Speaker 2

根本没有证据表明这些疗法有效。

There is no evidence that those cleanses work.

Speaker 2

如果你真觉得有寄生虫,赶紧去看医生。

If you really think you have parasites, go see a doctor.

Speaker 2

别自己瞎折腾。

Do not DIY this.

Speaker 2

其实,自从有了人类,寄生虫就一直在悄悄侵入我们的身体,甚至更早以前就有了。

Anyway, parasites have been warming their way into the human body for as long as there have been humans even before.

Speaker 2

就像鱼、鸟、狗和马都会感染寄生虫一样,我们也不例外。

Just as fish and birds and dogs and horses all get parasitic infections, so do we.

Speaker 2

很多寄生虫病最初都起源于热带地区。

Many of these parasitic diseases started in the tropics.

Speaker 2

从大约1492年算起,过去六百年间,随着殖民、迁徙和奴隶贸易,寄生虫病已经蔓延到全球各地。

Since about 1492, basically, over the past six hundred years of conquest and migration and slavery, parasitic diseases have spread around the world.

Speaker 2

寄生虫无处不在。

Parasites are everywhere.

Speaker 2

给你说个冷知识。

Here's a factoid.

Speaker 2

美国疾病控制与预防中心设在佐治亚州亚特兰大,因为七十五年前,美国南部地区寄生虫病十分普遍。

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is based in Atlanta, Georgia because seventy five years ago, parasitic diseases were common in the Deep South.

Speaker 2

当时主要是疟疾,还有钩虫病。

It was mostly malaria, but also hookworm.

Speaker 2

不如我们就从二十世纪初的美国南方开始讲起,说说钩虫的故事。

In fact, let's start our tale there in the Southern United States with a story about hookworms circa 1900.

Speaker 2

查尔斯·斯蒂尔斯出生在纽约,曾在欧洲最顶尖的学府学习动物学。

Charles Stiles was born in New York and educated in the zoological sciences at the finest institutions in Europe.

Speaker 2

斯蒂尔斯特别关注家畜身上的寄生虫,比如猪肉里的旋毛虫和牛体内的绦虫。

Stiles was particularly interested in parasites in livestock, like trichinosis in swine and tapeworm in cattle.

Speaker 2

那时候,寄生虫研究——也就是寄生虫学——还是一门全新的医学领域。

At the time, the study of parasites, this is called parasitology, this was a brand new field of medicine.

Speaker 2

人们发现,寄生虫会导致贾第虫病和疟疾这类疾病,而且相比细菌,寄生虫更容易被发现,有些甚至肉眼就能看到,不用显微镜。

Parasites, it was discovered, caused diseases like giardia and malaria, and compared to bacteria, parasites were easier to find, sometimes even visible to the naked eye without a microscope.

Speaker 2

但这并不意味着它们更容易对付。

But that did not make them any easier to deal with.

Speaker 2

大约在1900年,查尔斯·斯蒂尔斯受聘担任美国公共卫生服务局的首席动物学家。

So around 1900, Charles Stiles took a job as the chief zoologist for the US Public Health Service.

Speaker 2

当他听说美国南方有人出现贫血、发育迟缓等问题时,他直觉这背后有寄生虫在作祟。

And when he heard about health problems in the American South, anemia, stunted growth, he had a hunch that parasites were involved.

Speaker 2

于是斯蒂尔斯开始展开研究。

So Stiles began to research.

Speaker 2

说实话,这事儿还真没别的说法。

Well, there's really no other way to say this.

Speaker 2

他跑遍南方,挨家挨户收集人类粪便样本。

He went on a study of human shit across the South.

Speaker 2

只要有人愿意配合,他就取样,很快他就确凿地证实了钩虫是导致广泛不适的元凶。

He took stool samples from everyone willing to let him, and soon he had definitively identified hookworms as a cause of widespread malaise.

Speaker 2

根据这些粪便研究,他估算大约有百分之四十的南方人——无论黑白,几乎都是穷人——体内都携带着钩虫。

Based on his poop studies, he estimated that around forty percent of Southerners, whites and blacks, almost always poor, they carried hookworms.

Speaker 2

他把这些寄生虫命名为美洲钩虫,意思是‘美洲杀手’。

He called these parasites, nekator americanus, which translates as American murderer.

Speaker 2

这其实是个误称。

This was a misnomer, actually.

Speaker 2

得钩虫病的人很少会死,但钩虫确实让日常生活变得糟糕透顶。

People rarely die of hookworm infections, but hookworms did make daily life much, much worse.

Speaker 2

那时候,是二十世纪的最初几年。

At the time, this was the first years of the twentieth century.

Speaker 2

在南方,穷就意味着几乎没有任何卫生条件。

To be poor in the South meant almost no sanitation.

Speaker 2

没有自来水,没有厕所,连茅房都常常没有。

No running water, no toilets, often no outhouses.

Speaker 2

人们随地大小便,哪儿方便就在哪儿,树林里、灌木丛后都行。

People pooped, well, wherever, in the woods, behind bushes.

Speaker 2

大多数穷人不穿鞋,尤其是孩子。

And most poor people went without shoes, children especially.

Speaker 2

那样做确实更省事。

It was just easier that way.

Speaker 2

鞋子要花钱。

Shoes cost money.

Speaker 2

这些条件最适合钩虫繁殖。

These were ideal conditions for the hookworm to prosper.

Speaker 2

咱们从泥土说起。

Let's start in the dirt.

Speaker 2

钩虫幼虫生活在土壤里,会钻进人的脚丫,迅速通过光脚的皮肤毛孔进入体内。

Hookworm larvae live in the soil and burrow through to reach their target, human feet, where they quickly slip into the pores of bare skin.

Speaker 2

这可能会引起皮疹。

This might cause a rash.

Speaker 2

当时叫它‘地痒’。

It was called ground itch.

Speaker 2

但虫子已经进去了。

But the worm is in.

Speaker 2

那些幼虫特别小,肉眼几乎看不见,接着就扭动着钻进毛细血管,进入血液循环。

The larvae, which are super tiny, scarcely visible to the human eye, they then wriggle their way into blood vessels and enter the bloodstream.

Speaker 2

现在,旅程正式开始了。

And now the ride is on.

Speaker 2

幼虫随着血液流到心脏,然后被泵送到肺部。

The larvae flow to the heart, and they are pumped out into the lungs.

Speaker 2

这通常会引起咳嗽,而这正是钩虫所需要的。

This usually causes a cough, which is just what the hookworm needs.

Speaker 2

因为每次咳嗽,钩虫都会被从肺部咳到嘴里,然后咕咚一声吞下去。

Because with every cough, the hookworm is forced out of the lungs into the mouth, and then, gulp, swallowed.

Speaker 2

现在,钩虫总算安家了。

And now the worm is home free.

Speaker 2

在小肠里,钩虫牢牢吸附在肠壁上。

In the small intestine, the worm latches onto the intestinal wall.

Speaker 2

在那里,它靠吸血为生,最长也只能长到半英寸左右。

There, it feeds on blood and grows to just half an inch long at most.

Speaker 2

成虫随后产下更多幼虫,随粪便排出体外,落在灌木丛附近的泥土里,等待下一双赤脚经过。

From there, the adult worm produces more larvae, which are expelled with a stool into the dirt past the bush where the worms wait for other feet to pass by.

Speaker 2

于是,这个循环就这样持续下去。

And so the cycle continues.

Speaker 2

不过咱们还是回到肠道里的成虫身上吧,抱歉,刚才跑题了。

But let's hook back, sorry, to the adult worms back in the intestines.

Speaker 2

它们不断吸食宿主的血液,导致钩虫病引发贫血。

As they fester, sucking the blood out of their host, hookworms cause anemia.

Speaker 2

这是一种因失血造成的严重且长期的缺铁状态。

That is a severe and chronic iron deficiency caused by blood loss.

Speaker 2

贫血的症状包括乏力和极度疲倦。

Symptoms of anemia are weakness and extreme fatigue.

Speaker 2

英语里有好多词来形容这种状态。

The English language is full of words to describe this.

Speaker 2

怠惰、懒散、倦怠、萎靡、懒惰。

Indolence, sloth, lethargy, lassitude, laziness.

Speaker 2

1902年,在华盛顿特区举行的泛美卫生大会上,查尔斯·斯蒂尔斯宣布了他的发现,并指出这种被称为‘美国杀手’的钩虫,可能与南方人特有的倦怠状态有关。

In nineteen o two, at the Pan American Sanitary Congress in Washington DC, Charles Stiles announced his discovery, and he noted that there might be a connection between this hookworm, the American killer, and the characteristic state of southern lassitude.

Speaker 2

这事儿登上了头版头条。

And that became front page news.

Speaker 2

《纽约太阳报》的标题赫然写着:懒惰的病原体被找到了。

The headline in the New York Sun screamed, germ of laziness found.

Speaker 2

那时候,说南方人——尤其是白人南方人——懒惰,这种刻板印象很普遍。

At the time, this stereotype of a lazy southerner, especially white southerners, it was commonplace.

Speaker 2

北方正疯狂工业化,南方却依然以农村为主。

As the North expanded in a frenzy of industrialization, the South was still overwhelmingly rural.

Speaker 2

贫穷的白人南方人被看不起,说他们没干劲、反应慢,这种刻板印象正好和对黑人懒惰的种族歧视吻合。

Poor white southerners were scorned as unmotivated and slow, and the stereotype lined up neatly with racial slurs about lazy black people.

Speaker 2

而这种污名化的影响更持久。

And that has been an even more enduring smear.

Speaker 2

于是,查尔斯·斯蒂尔斯找到了他的使命。

So Charles Stiles had found his cause.

Speaker 2

但治疗方案又在哪里呢?

But what about the cure?

Speaker 2

一旦关于懒惰病菌的头条新闻过去,就没人再对跟进斯蒂尔斯的研究、解决钩虫问题感兴趣了。

Once the germ for laziness headlines faded, no one seemed that interested in following up on Stiles' work to do anything about the hookworms.

Speaker 2

虽然可能有百分之四十的人口受影响,但钩虫病主要困扰的是最穷的人,尤其是黑人。

It may have affected forty percent of the population, sure, but hookworm was mostly an affliction of the very poor and often blacks.

Speaker 2

别忘了,那是吉姆·克劳法时代的南方,根本谈不上什么进步。

Remember, this was the Jim Crow era South, not a time of great progress.

Speaker 2

所以,这对刚起步的美国公共卫生服务和正在崛起的国家来说,根本不是优先事项。

So this was just not a priority for the fledgling US public health service or the growing nation.

Speaker 2

于是,斯蒂尔斯开始四处奔走、演讲,宣传他觉得应该采取的措施。

So Stiles started stumping and lecturing about what he thought should be done.

Speaker 2

他说,我的兴趣可以概括为两个字:清洁。

He said, my hobby may be summarized in the two words, clean up.

Speaker 2

在我们美国人日常生活中那些肮脏的习惯里,我看到的可预防疾病和可预防死亡,比任何其他单一因素都要多。

In our filthy American habits of daily life, I see the cause of more preventable sickness and preventable death than I do in any other one factor.

Speaker 2

最终,在1908年,斯蒂尔斯联系上了约翰·D·洛克菲勒的顾问团队——标准石油公司的创始人,当时美国最富有的人。

Eventually, in nineteen o eight, Stiles hooked up, sorry, with advisers to John d Rockefeller, the founder of the Standard Oil Company and the richest person in The United States at the time.

Speaker 2

洛克菲勒愿意用他的财富投身公益事业,而斯蒂尔斯的工作正好契合这一目标。

Rockefeller was interested in putting his wealth towards philanthropy, and Stiles' work fit the bill.

Speaker 2

很快,就成立了一个洛克菲勒卫生委员会,专门致力于根除美国南部的钩虫病。

Soon, there was a Rockefeller sanitary commission dedicated to eradicating hookworm in the Southern United States.

Speaker 2

这个机构后来发展成了洛克菲勒基金会。

This would later become the Rockefeller Foundation.

Speaker 2

斯蒂尔斯和洛克菲勒团队提出了三项对抗钩虫病的策略。

Stiles and the Rockefeller team identified three strategies to fight hookworm.

Speaker 2

第一,感染的人要用百里香酚进行治疗。

First, infected people were to be treated with thymol.

Speaker 2

这是一种天然存在的消毒剂,配合泻盐来杀死并排出体内的寄生虫。

This was a naturally occurring chemical used as a disinfectant, and Epsom salt to kill and purge the worms.

Speaker 2

这个过程会让人大量呕吐和腹泻,但通常在24小时内就能清除体内的寄生虫。

This involved a lot of vomiting and diarrhea, but it usually worked to rid a body of worms within twenty four hours.

Speaker 2

第二,他们发起了一场建造厕所的运动。

Second, they went on an outhouse building campaign.

Speaker 2

当时有估计称,35%的白人家庭和75%的黑人家庭连厕所都没有。

One estimate at the time held that 35% of white households and 75% of black households had no privies.

Speaker 2

这种情况必须改变。

That would have to change.

Speaker 2

目标是为每户人家建一个带至少四英尺深坑的厕所。

The goal was to build an outhouse for every home with a pit at least four feet deep.

Speaker 2

第三点,穿鞋。

Third, shoes.

Speaker 2

这可是个不小的观念转变。

Now this was a big cultural change.

Speaker 2

南方的孩子平时很少穿鞋,夏天尤其如此,但鞋子能防止寄生虫入侵。

Children in the South rarely wore shoes, especially in the summer, but shoes keep the worms out.

Speaker 2

灭钩虫运动很快取得了进展。

The hookworm campaign quickly took off.

Speaker 2

各州政府也参与了进来。

State governments got engaged.

Speaker 2

在洛克菲勒资金的支持下,许多南方州成立了卫生委员会,并加强了公共卫生部门。

With Rockefeller money, many Southern states established sanitary commissions and better state departments of health.

Speaker 2

很快,人们开始讨论建立一个更广泛的国家级公共卫生服务体系,借由钩虫运动的成功经验,推动全国范围内的卫生与医疗改善。

Soon, there was talk of an expanded national public health service, one that could build on the success of the hookworm campaign and advance sanitation and health care across the land.

Speaker 2

洛克菲勒联盟把这包装成一场拯救乡村生活方式的运动,但其实他们是在要求人们改变生活方式、居住环境、穿着习惯和饮食方式。

The Rockefeller coalition framed this as a movement for the conservation of country life, but they were really demanding that people change how they lived, where they lived, what they wore, how they ate.

Speaker 2

唯有改变才能遏制疾病,但很多人并不喜欢这么多改变。

Change was the only way to keep disease at bay, and many people did not like all that change.

Speaker 2

这时,国家医疗自由联盟出现了。

Enter the National League of Medical Freedom.

Speaker 2

这个反对组织抨击科学医学,主张人们应该有自由选择任何他们认为有效的疗法,联邦政府不该偏袒某种医学而贬低其他形式。

This opposition group condemned scientific medicine, arguing that people should be free to pursue whatever form of treatment they believed best and that the federal government should steer clear of endorsing certain kinds of medicine as more worthy than others.

Speaker 2

该联盟的资金来自顺势疗法医生、整骨疗法医生以及其他替代医学从业者。

The league was funded by homeopaths, osteopaths, and others in the alternative medicine business.

Speaker 2

起初,他们的策略确实奏效了。

At first, it worked.

Speaker 2

该联盟及其后续组织——美国医学自由联盟,成功拖延了所谓‘医学章鱼’——一个更强大的全国性卫生机构——的成立。

The league and a successor group, the American Medical Liberty League, they managed to delay approval of what was called the medical octopus, a stronger national health organization.

Speaker 2

但到了新政时期,加上20世纪30年代更有效的药物和疗法出现,反对声音逐渐减弱,尽管并未完全消失。

But by the time of the New Deal and more effective drugs and treatments in the nineteen thirties, the opposition faded, though it did not disappear.

Speaker 2

那种以维护医疗自由为名,对抗主流医学的理念,听起来是不是有点耳熟?

That idea of defending medical freedoms against mainstream medicine, does that sound familiar?

Speaker 2

这种想法从未真正消亡。

That idea would not die.

Speaker 2

它至今依然存在。

It has not died.

Speaker 2

现在,我们再回到钩虫病的话题。

So now back to hookworm.

Speaker 2

到20世纪50年代左右,美国南部的钩虫病基本被消灭了,虽然南方部分地区仍偶有发生,而且在全国各地的狗、猫和马身上依然可见。

That was eliminated in the Southern US more or less by the nineteen fifties, though it's not entirely gone from the South, and it still appears in dogs and cats and horses nationwide.

Speaker 2

遗憾的是,钩虫病在世界许多地方依然普遍,这让我们不得不谈到另一种寄生虫。

And hookworm is still sadly common around the world, which takes us to another worm.

Speaker 2

让我们把目光转向非洲,来看看另一种寄生虫病——河盲症。

Let's follow our drug story to Africa to meet another parasitic disease, river blindness.

Speaker 2

在撒哈拉以南非洲的村庄里,像加纳、尼日利亚和喀麦隆这些国家的人们,生活离不开河流,因为吃的、喝的、干活的地方都在河边。

In the villages of Sub Saharan Africa, in countries like Ghana, Nigeria, and Cameroon, people depend on rivers because that is where the food is, where the water is, that's where the work is.

Speaker 8

河水确实珍贵,但这些河流也暗藏危险。

The water from the rivers is precious indeed, but the rivers are treacherous.

Speaker 8

它们滋生了一种黑蝇,正是这种蝇导致失明。

They produce the black fly that brings blindness.

Speaker 2

这段话出自1983年一部关于河盲症的纪录片。

That's from a 1983 documentary about river blindness.

Speaker 2

黑蝇叮咬人的时候,会把一种叫盘尾丝虫的幼虫传入人体。

The black flies bite, and when they bite, they transmit the larvae of worm called Oncocerca volvulus.

Speaker 2

这种寄生虫会在皮肤底下生长繁殖。

The worm grows and breeds under the skin.

Speaker 2

人体通常对成虫的反应比较轻微,不会强烈排斥。

The human body generally tolerates the adult worms with a low immune response.

Speaker 2

但当幼虫进入眼睛时,身体会产生更强烈的免疫反应,引发炎症,最终导致失明。

But when the baby worms, the larvae, get into the eye, a more intense immune reaction can cause inflammation, and that leads to blindness.

Speaker 2

河盲症本身很少直接致死,但它可能摧毁整个家庭或村庄,因为失明通常发生在人们最富生产力的年纪。

River blindness itself is rarely deadly to individuals, but it can prove fatal to a family or to a village because blindness often comes to men and women in their prime productive years.

Speaker 2

子女不得不放弃工作,回家照顾失明的父母。

Sons or daughters must drop out of the workforce to care for a blind parent.

Speaker 2

结婚和生育变得越来越少。

Marriages and parenthood are less common.

Speaker 2

最终,年轻人纷纷离开村庄。

Eventually, young people flee the village.

Speaker 2

几十年来,人们对盘尾丝虫病几乎无能为力。

For decades, there was little to be done for oncocerecysis.

Speaker 2

全球有高达两千万人感染了这种寄生虫,数十万人因此失明或视力严重受损。

As many as twenty million people were infected with the parasite worldwide, and hundreds of thousands were blinded or had impaired vision because of the disease.

Speaker 2

上世纪七十年代,世界银行开始在西非使用滴滴涕和其他杀虫剂来消灭黑蝇种群。

In the nineteen seventies, the World Bank began using DDT and other insecticides to kill black fly populations in West Africa.

Speaker 2

这在某些地方有效,但对环境和人类健康造成了极大的危害。

This worked in places, but it was terrifically dangerous to the environment and to human health.

Speaker 2

到了1981年,一种新药出现了,它不仅能治疗河盲症,还能对付其他寄生虫病,比如钩虫病。

And then in 1981, a new drug appeared that might work for river blindness and for other parasitic diseases too, including hookworm.

Speaker 2

这种药叫伊维菌素,关于它的故事,我们将在第二部分的后半段详细讲。

This was Ivermectin, and we'll get into that after a break in part two.

Speaker 2

欢迎回到《药物故事》。

Welcome back to Drug Story.

Speaker 2

这里是第二部分——处方篇,我们将探讨一种治疗疾病的药物是如何研发和使用的。

This is part two, the prescription, where we explore the creation and the use of a drug to treat disease.

Speaker 2

今天要讲的药物,当然是伊维菌素。

And today's drug is, of course, ivermectin.

Speaker 2

伊维菌素的诞生,始于1973年日本东京以南的一个高尔夫球场。

The creation of ivermectin begins, of all places, on a golf course south of Tokyo, Japan in 1973.

Speaker 2

在球场边缘,朝相模湾东面望去的地方,一位名叫大村智的年轻科学家正在挖土。

On the edge of the course looking east over Sagami Bay, a young scientist named Satoshi Omura was digging up dirt.

Speaker 2

当时人们早就知道,土壤里充满了生命和微生物。

Now at the time, it was well known that soil, dirt, was full of life and full of microbes.

Speaker 2

任何一块土地里,都在上演着一场战争。

In any patch of earth, a war is going on.

Speaker 2

各种细菌释放化学物质,消灭竞争对手,只为争夺食物和生存空间。

With various bacteria producing chemical agents to kill off rival bacteria in the quest for food and survival.

Speaker 2

自1943年起,人们就发现,有些微生物可以被分离出来,制成药物。

Since 1943, it was known that some of those microbes could be isolated and turned into medicines.

Speaker 2

最早的抗生素之一——链霉素,就是从土壤中提取出来的。

One of the first antibiotics, streptomycin, was isolated out of soil.

Speaker 2

四环素、雷帕霉素,还有十几种其他药物,最初都源自泥土。

Tetracycline, rapamycin, and a dozen other medicines started in dirt.

Speaker 2

大村智是北里研究所的负责人,他刚刚与总部位于新泽西的默克公司启动了一项合作研究。

Omura was a director at the Kita Sato Institute, and he had just begun a research project with Merck, the New Jersey based pharma company.

Speaker 2

大村智有个习惯,随身带着采样袋,一有兴致,就随手挖一铲土,留着回去化验。

Part of Omura's habit was to carry sample bags with him so that when the mood struck him, he could shovel up a soil sample for testing later.

Speaker 2

那个高尔夫球场取来的样本,只是大村智实验室里四万种菌株中的一例。

The sample from that golf course was just one of 40,000 cultures isolated in Oumura's lab.

Speaker 2

其中最有希望的菌株被送往美国新泽西州,最终只有一种显示出抗寄生虫的效果。

The promising ones were then sent overseas to New Jersey, and exactly one turned out to have an antiparasitic effect.

Speaker 2

它能杀死蠕虫。

It killed worms.

Speaker 2

接下来的几年里,由威廉·坎贝尔带领的默克团队不断优化这种微生物的培养,试图提炼出更强效的版本。

For the next few years, the Merck team led by William Campbell, they sweated the stuff, trying to create a stronger brew of this microbe.

Speaker 2

他们用它测试了从细菌到寄生虫等多种病原体。

They tested it against various pathogens from bacteria to parasites.

Speaker 2

经过无数次实验,他们最终得到了伊维菌素——一种能稳定有效杀灭家畜体内寄生虫的药物。

And after countless experiments, they had ivermectin, a drug that worked reliably and consistently to kill parasites in livestock.

Speaker 2

1981年,伊维菌素获得批准,用于治疗牲畜体内的各种寄生虫、螨虫、蜱虫、蛔虫、钩虫和心丝虫。

In 1981, ivermectin was approved for use in animals to kill various kinds of parasites, mites and ticks and roundworms and hookworms and heartworms.

Speaker 2

默克公司因此赚得盆满钵满。

Merck would make a lot of money this way.

Speaker 2

但寄生虫也是人类的难题,尤其在欠发达地区。

But parasites were also a problem in humans, particularly in less developed countries.

Speaker 2

因此,同年在塞内加尔,默克公司开始在人体上测试伊维菌素,用于预防和治疗河盲症。

So that same year in Senegal, Merck began testing ivermectin in people for the prevention and treatment of river blindness.

Speaker 2

这些试验也取得了成功。

And those experiments worked too.

Speaker 2

1987年,伊维菌素获准用于人类。

Ivermectin was approved for use in humans in 1987.

Speaker 2

但谁来承担这笔药费呢?

But who would pay for the drug?

Speaker 2

要为全球数亿人生产和分发这种药物,开销可不是小数目。

It would be no small expense to manufacture and distribute the drug to hundreds of millions of people worldwide.

Speaker 2

于是,默克做了一件非同寻常的事。

So Merck did something remarkable.

Speaker 2

公司承诺,只要需要,就免费提供这种药物,正如当时公司董事长所说。

The company agreed to give away the drug for free as much as needed and as long as needed, as the company's chairman said at the time.

Speaker 2

几年内,伊维菌素就开始供应给整个村庄、整个国家。

Within a few years, ivermectin was being distributed to whole villages, whole countries.

Speaker 2

很快,人们重新回到河边,像一场迁徙热潮,村庄和社区重燃希望,焕然新生。

Soon, people started returning to the rivers in a land rush as villages and communities were reborn with hope.

Speaker 2

接着又传来一个好消息。

And then another triumph.

Speaker 2

二十世纪九十年代中期,伊维菌素被证实对淋巴丝虫病同样有效,这是一种广泛流行的寄生虫病。

In the mid nineteen nineties, ivermectin was proven effective for treating lymphatic filariasis, another widespread parasitic disease.

Speaker 2

这种病是通过蚊子叮咬传播的线虫引起的。

In this case, worms delivered by a mosquito bite.

Speaker 2

这种疾病影响着一亿人,会导致四肢和生殖器长期肿胀,甚至引发象皮病等严重后果。

This disease afflicts a hundred million people and causes chronic swelling in the limbs and genitals, leading to horrible conditions like elephantiasis.

Speaker 2

同样,默克公司免费捐赠了这种药物。

Again, Merck donated the drug for free.

Speaker 2

距离这些成就已经四十年了,我们现在知道,伊维菌素对多种寄生虫都有效,而且每年只需服用一到两片药即可。

Forty years after these triumphs, we now know that ivermectin works against a great many parasites, and it is easy to take just one or two pills a year.

Speaker 2

它让各国有了对抗疾病、夺回被寄生虫肆虐而荒废土地的机会。

It gives countries a fighting chance to push back on disease and to reclaim land that has been abandoned due to infestation.

Speaker 2

截至目前,已有五个国家彻底根除了河盲症,还有好几个国家也快实现了。

To date, five countries have eliminated river blindness outright, and several more are really close.

Speaker 2

与此同时,默克公司还以品牌名“Heartgard”销售一种药物,用于预防狗狗的心丝虫和钩虫感染。

And all along, Merck has sold a drug under the brand name Heartgard to prevent heartworms and hookworms in dogs.

Speaker 2

这些产品迅速成为全球销量最高的兽药,年收入超过十亿美元。

These products quickly became the top selling veterinary medicines in the world, earning more than $1,000,000,000 annually.

Speaker 2

所以,默克公司赚取利润,完全是应得的。

So, yeah, Merck made their money as they deserve to.

Speaker 2

2015年,大村智和威廉·坎贝尔因发现伊维菌素而荣获诺贝尔生理学或医学奖。

And in 2015, Satoshi Amora and Merx William Campbell were awarded the Nobel Prize in medicine for their discovery of ivermectin.

Speaker 8

寄生虫通常不被认为是可爱的生物。

Parasites are not generally regarded as being lovable.

Speaker 8

当我们说某人是寄生虫时,绝不是在夸奖他。

When we refer to people as parasites, we are not being complimentary.

Speaker 2

这是坎贝尔在接受荣誉时的画面。

Here is Campbell accepting the honor.

Speaker 8

我们总以为,寄生虫就是那种靠别人推着才能通过旋转门的人。

We tend to think that a parasite is the sort of person who goes through a revolving door on somebody else's push.

Speaker 8

这种说法不公平。

This is unfair.

Speaker 8

这对自然界中无数重要又常见的寄生生物来说,是极大的不公。

It's unfair to real parasites, to the innumerable and influential parasites from the world of nature.

Speaker 8

各位陛下、皇室成员、阁下,女士们、先生们,是时候给寄生生物多一点尊重了。

Your majesties, your royal highnesses, your excellencies, ladies and gentlemen, it is time for parasites to get a little more respect.

Speaker 4

我们

We

Speaker 2

我们的故事本可以在这里结束。

could end our story here.

Speaker 2

一种神奇的药物,一项诺贝尔奖,数百万生命得到改善,数十亿美元收入入账。

A miracle drug, a Nobel Prize, millions of lives improved, billions of dollars earned.

Speaker 2

不知怎么的,每个人都是赢家。

Somehow, everyone is a winner.

Speaker 2

真是个精彩的故事。

What a story.

Speaker 2

但这个药物的故事还没结束。

But that is not where this drug story ends.

Speaker 2

因为接下来,故事出现了转折。

Because here, our story takes a turn.

Speaker 5

人们越来越担心一种新型罕见的肺炎样病毒,它已导致至少两人死亡,并从中国传播到了亚洲其他国家。

Growing concern about a new and rare pneumonia like virus that has caused at least two deaths and has spread from China to other countries in Asia.

Speaker 3

美国疾病控制与预防中心确认,美国首例病例已在华盛顿州发现。

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has confirmed the first US case has been detected in Washington state.

Speaker 9

这真是前所未有的情况。

This is truly an unprecedented situation.

Speaker 9

这种病毒不分人种,一视同仁。

This virus doesn't discriminate.

Speaker 9

它谁都不放过。

It attacks everyone.

Speaker 10

我希望每个美国人都做好准备。

I want every American to be prepared.

Speaker 2

2019年底,一种新疾病出现了,就是新冠。

In late twenty nineteen, a new disease emerged, COVID.

Speaker 2

突然间,伊维菌素成了头版新闻。

And suddenly, Ivermectin was front page news.

Speaker 7

今天,我宣布新冠病毒在美国构成公共卫生紧急状态。

I have today declared that the coronavirus presents a public health emergency in The United States.

Speaker 9

公共卫生紧急状态。

Public health emergency.

Speaker 9

宣布进入紧急状态。

A declaration of emergency.

Speaker 8

紧急状态。

State of emergency.

Speaker 8

新冠可以被定义为一场大流行。

COVID nineteen can be characterized as a pandemic.

Speaker 10

我们将暂停所有来自欧洲的旅行。

We will be suspending all travel from Europe.

Speaker 10

我正式宣布进入国家紧急状态。

I am officially declaring a national emergency.

Speaker 2

当时人很多,我们不得不在外面等了大约二十分钟才被允许进去。

It was quite crowded, and we had to wait outside for about twenty minutes before they let us in.

Speaker 3

我们跳到三月十六号。

Jumping to March 16.

Speaker 2

这是第三部分,关于副作用。

This is part three, side effects.

Speaker 2

通常来说,副作用是药物带来的不希望出现的反应。

Now usually, side effects are unwanted or undesired consequences of a drug.

Speaker 2

但有时候,这些意外的反应反而为药物开辟了新的用途。

But sometimes those unintended consequences actually open the door to new uses for the drug.

Speaker 2

这叫药物再利用。

It's called repurposing.

Speaker 11

药物再利用通常是指,一种药原本是为某种疾病研发的,却意外对其他疾病产生了作用。

Repurposing for medicines is oftentimes a medicine may be developed for one reason, one indication, and it may have off target effects for a different disease process.

Speaker 11

伟哥,大家都听说过伟哥。

So Viagra, everyone knows about Viagra.

Speaker 11

伟哥最初是作为降压药开发的。

So Viagra was initially, developed as a blood pressure medicine.

Speaker 2

这位是医生。

This is Doctor.

Speaker 2

大卫·布卢瓦尔,明尼苏达大学的医学教授,同时也是传染病专家。

David Bulware, a professor of medicine and infectious disease physician at the University of Minnesota.

Speaker 11

医生。

Doctor.

Speaker 11

作为降压药,它的效果并不太理想,但出现了一些意想不到的副作用。

It didn't really work that great as blood pressure medicine, but it had some off target side effects.

Speaker 11

所以这些副作用一出来,大家都说:这玩意儿有意思。

So the side effects, people were like, Oh, this is a thing.

Speaker 11

于是它就被重新用于治疗勃起功能障碍,尽管它最初是作为降压药开发的。

So it was then repurposed for sort of erectile dysfunction, even though it was originally developed as a blood pressure medicine.

Speaker 11

这就是一个被成功再利用的著名例子。

So that's a famous example of something that's repurposed.

Speaker 2

记得2020年新冠疫情刚在美国爆发时,没人知道该怎么办。

Now remember when COVID hit The US in 2020, nobody knew anything.

Speaker 2

当时根本找不到明确有效的治疗方法。

There was no obvious treatment.

Speaker 2

于是各种想法都冒出来了,有些简直荒唐可笑。

So there were a lot of ideas, some absurd ideas about what would work.

Speaker 2

有人甚至说漂白剂能杀灭病毒,或者二氯甲烷。

Some people said bleach would kill the virus or methylene chloride.

Speaker 2

二氯甲烷就是俗称的油漆去除剂。

That's also known as paint stripper.

Speaker 2

紫外线据说能起作用。

Ultraviolet light was supposed to work.

Speaker 2

在印度,有一位政客办了一场喝牛尿的聚会,来了两百多人。

In India, one politician held a cow urine drinking party, and 200 people showed up.

Speaker 2

各种茶饮、药膏和提取物多得数不清。

There were so many teas and salves and extracts.

Speaker 2

还有各种膳食补充剂。

And then there were supplements.

Speaker 12

人们疯狂抢购,争着买各种补充剂。

People were crushing the store, trying to get their hands on various supplements.

Speaker 2

这是西蒙妮。

This is Simone.

Speaker 2

她在俄勒冈州波特兰的一家超市负责补充剂货架。

She worked in a grocery store in Portland, Oregon in the supplements section.

Speaker 2

她亲眼目睹了这场疯狂的抢购潮。

She had a front row seat to the frenzy.

Speaker 12

维生素C、维生素D、锌、接骨木莓和NAC。

Vitamin c, vitamin d, zinc, elderberry, and NAC.

Speaker 12

哦,还有槲皮素。

Oh, quercetin also.

Speaker 2

没错。

Right.

Speaker 2

这些理论上都能增强免疫力。

And these all, like, help the immune system in theory.

Speaker 12

对。

Yes.

Speaker 12

当时气氛特别混乱。

And the energy was very chaotic.

Speaker 2

是啊。

Yeah.

Speaker 12

那真是段特别古怪的时光。

It was just a really weird time.

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Speaker 2

然后就有了重新利用现有药物的想法。

And then there was the idea to repurpose drugs.

Speaker 2

比如氯喹、羟氯喹和阿奇霉素。

Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin.

Speaker 2

那是一种抗生素。

That's an antibiotic.

Speaker 2

它杀的是细菌,不是像新冠这样的病毒。

It kills bacteria, not viruses like COVID.

Speaker 2

到了2020年4月4日,伊维菌素进入了讨论范围。

And then on 04/04/2020, Ivermectin entered the conversation.

Speaker 2

这种药最早是在《抗病毒研究》期刊上的一篇论文中被提到的。

The drug was first mentioned in a paper published in the journal Antiviral Research.

Speaker 2

医生。

Doctor.

Speaker 2

布勒瓦解释了这项研究的内容。

Bulware explains what the study said.

Speaker 11

有一篇论文提到,在培养皿的实验室环境中,伊维菌素对新冠病毒表现出抗病毒效果。

There was a publication that came out that talked about how ivermectin had in a petri dish lab situation where Ivermectin had an antiviral effect against SARS CoV-two.

Speaker 11

只要你把任何东西加到足够高的浓度,它都会抑制细胞甚至杀死细胞。

You put enough of anything in a petri dish and at a high enough concentration, it will start inhibiting cells and kill cells.

Speaker 11

我看到这个消息时,确实有点感兴趣。

And so when I saw that, was like, Oh, was interested.

Speaker 11

但这个浓度在人体内通过常规剂量能实现吗?

And is that concentration achievable in the human body with normal dosings?

Speaker 11

我做了个简单计算,发现需要的浓度比人体能达标的水平高出整整一百倍。

And so when I did the mathematics, kind of back in both calculation, it was like 100 times higher level than you would ever achieve in the human body.

Speaker 11

五分钟内我就意识到,这几乎不可能成为有效的治疗方案,因为抗病毒所需的浓度实在太高了。

And within about five minutes realized like this is unlikely to be a viable treatment option because the concentration needed for an antiviral effect is so high.

Speaker 2

它虽然能杀病毒,但对人体会造成严重伤害。

So because it would kill the virus, but it would not be good human either.

Speaker 11

这远远超出了正常用药范围,要达到那个剂量,你得吃下海量的药,几乎肯定会中毒。很多东西在培养皿里有效,在小鼠身上也有效,天哪,我们能在小鼠身上治愈癌症,也能治愈心脏病。

I mean, it's just so far beyond the normal dosing range that you would, to get that dose, you'd have to take a massive amount and you'd run into toxicity most likely, because a lot of things work in a petri dish, a lot of things work in a mouse, like my gosh, we can cure cancer in a mouse, we can cure heart disease in a mouse.

Speaker 11

但这并不意味着任何药物在实验室里有效,就一定能在人体上起作用,它只是个起点。

But it doesn't mean that whatever drug is always going to work in humans, but it's a starting point.

Speaker 11

你要从这里开始,然后必须做临床试验,真正去验证它对患有这种病的人有没有实际疗效。

That you start there, and then you've got to do a clinical trial to actually test it and see, is there actually a benefit in actual humans with the disease.

Speaker 2

布瓦尔医生和其他人很快就意识到,要达到同样的效果,人体需要的剂量会大到危险的程度。

Now doctor Bulware and others spotted this right away, that it would take a huge dose, a dangerously huge dose in humans to have the same effect.

Speaker 2

这显然是个重大限制,几乎等于直接否定了它的可行性,但在当时那种紧张气氛下,大家忽略了这一点。

That was a pretty significant limitation, basically a disqualifier, but it was lost in the heat of the moment.

Speaker 2

媒体对这项研究可是疯狂报道。

And the media was all over this study.

Speaker 2

有一条标题写着:‘伊维菌素能在48小时内杀死新冠病毒。’

One headline said, ivermectin kills COVID in forty eight hours.

Speaker 2

《新闻周刊》也说:‘自上世纪八十年代以来一直在使用的抗寄生虫药物,新研究称或有助于阻断新冠病毒。’

Newsweek wrote, antiparasite drug used since nineteen eighties may help stop coronavirus, new study says.

Speaker 2

明白了。

Okay.

Speaker 2

但研究根本没这么说,事情就是这么发展的。

That was not what the study said, but so it goes.

Speaker 2

就在几天后,另一篇论文出现了,提供了更有力的伊维菌素证据。

Just days later, another paper appeared proposing even stronger evidence for Ivermectin.

Speaker 2

这篇论文称,数据来自一家名为Surgisphere的芝加哥公司。

This paper claimed it had data from a company called Surgisphere based in Chicago.

Speaker 2

据说,他们掌握了来自全球近一千四百名新冠患者的医疗记录。

Supposedly, they had records from nearly one thousand four hundred COVID patients from hospitals around the world.

Speaker 2

论文声称,这些患者中有一半在疫情初期就接受了伊维菌素治疗。

Half of these patients, the paper claimed, had been treated with ivermectin in the first days of the pandemic.

Speaker 2

令人惊讶的是,服用伊维菌素的患者死亡率远低于未服用的患者。

Remarkably, the ivermectin patients showed a much lower mortality rate than patients who had not taken ivermectin.

Speaker 2

服用伊维菌素的患者死亡率刚过百分之一,而未服用的则超过百分之八。

Just over one percent of the ivermectin patients died compared to more than eight percent of the non ivermectin patients.

Speaker 2

这结果看似惊人,但数据却混乱不堪,漏洞百出。

This was a staggering result, but the data, it was sloppy and inconsistent.

Speaker 2

当其他研究人员要求查看数据时,Surgisphere的研究人员推脱了,后来干脆消失了。

And when other researchers asked to see it, the Surgisphere researcher demurred, and he eventually disappeared.

Speaker 2

这一切都是假的,完全是编造的。

It was all fake, all made up.

Speaker 2

Surgisphere背后的医生萨潘·德赛声誉尽毁。

The doctor behind Surgisphere, Sapon Desai, he was discredited.

Speaker 2

他成了最早试图利用新冠疫情谋取名利的骗子之一。

He holds the dubious honor of being among the first hustlers to try to exploit COVID for fame and fortune.

Speaker 2

问题是,那些标题已经传开了。

The only trouble was that the headlines were already out there.

Speaker 2

这两篇论文,还有其他使用伪造Surgisphere数据发表的论文,被其他研究者引用了成千上万次。

These two papers and others published with fake surgesphere data, they have been cited by other researchers thousands of times.

Speaker 2

伤害已经造成了。

The damage was done.

Speaker 2

这是2020年12月威斯康星州的罗恩·约翰逊参议员主持召开的一场听证会,主题是所谓的COVID隐藏疗法。

Here's a senate hearing from December 2020 into, quote, unquote, hidden treatments for COVID convened by the honorable Ron Johnson of Wisconsin.

Speaker 9

现在已经是十二月了。

We are now in December.

Speaker 9

这已经过去了三四个月。

This is three to four months later.

Speaker 9

全球各地的众多医疗中心都陆续公布了大量数据,显示伊维菌素具有惊人的疗效。

Mountains of data have emerged from all from many centers and countries around the world showing the miraculous effectiveness of Ivermectin.

Speaker 9

它基本上能彻底阻断这种病毒的传播。

It basically obliterates transmission of this virus.

Speaker 9

只要你服用,就不会生病。

If you take it, you will not get sick.

Speaker 2

这位发言者是来自威斯康星州的一位医生,名叫皮埃尔·科里。

The speaker was a Wisconsin doctor named Pierre Corey.

Speaker 2

2023年8月,美国内科医学委员会因科里医生传播虚假或不准确的医疗信息,撤销了他的执业认证。

In August 2023, the American Board of Internal Medicine revoked doctor Corey's board certifications for spreading false or inaccurate medical information.

Speaker 2

那么,那些所谓的大量数据到底说了些什么?

So what did those mountains of data actually say?

Speaker 2

结果呢,这位科里医生。

Well, turns out Doctor.

Speaker 2

布劳尔医生正是那些在镜头之外默默付出的人之一。

Boulware was among those doing the hard work away from the TV cameras.

Speaker 11

我参与了一个叫Active Six的项目,这是一个公私合作计划。

And I got involved with something called Active Six, which was a public private partnership.

Speaker 11

该项目由美国国立卫生研究院资助,并由杜克大学牵头,我担任联合主席。

It was sponsored by NIH and was run out of Duke as a co chair.

Speaker 11

我们研究了伊维菌素、氟西汀,还有用于哮喘的吸入性类固醇。

So we looked at Ivermectin, we looked at fluoxetine, we looked at inhaled steroids that are used for asthma.

Speaker 11

我们采用了常规剂量的伊维菌素,在早期治疗阶段连续服用三天,看看能否降低住院率,加快康复速度。

We did sort of the normal dose of Ivermectin, three days of Ivermectin early in treatment to see could you reduce the rate of hospitalization and could you get better faster.

Speaker 11

我参与了三项研究,每项都涉及一千多人,但结果都显示,与安慰剂相比,几乎没有统计学上的优势。

There were three trials I was involved with, over a thousand people per trial and basically no statistical benefit over placebo.

Speaker 11

而且根本不存在‘只是样本不够多’这种说法,因为根本看不到任何效果。

And no, like, you can't be like, Oh, you just needed more people, because there was no benefits whatsoever.

Speaker 11

所以第一次试验结束后,我就挺信服了。

And so for me, after the first trial, was like, Okay, I'm pretty convinced.

Speaker 11

第二次试验下来,我还是觉得这事儿差不多可以定了。

And then the second trial, was like, Well, I'm pretty convinced.

Speaker 11

但他们说,不行,得用更高剂量,于是我们就改用高剂量了。

But then they said, no, higher dose, so we use a higher dose.

Speaker 11

第三次试验,剂量更高、时间更长,结果还是完全没有效果。

And it's like, Okay, third trial, higher dose, longer duration, and there was no benefit whatsoever.

Speaker 11

对我来说,这基本就盖棺定论了,那是2022年的事。

And so to me, was, I mean, I thought that kind of closed the door on it and that was in 2022.

Speaker 11

可到现在,还有人一直在谈它、推它。

But still, people are still talking about it, still promoting it.

Speaker 11

这真让我觉得奇怪,当初我们不了解情况,有点初步数据说可能有用,那还能理解;但现在已经有好几轮试验了,明显该换方向了。

And it's bizarre to me because it's one thing upfront when we didn't know and there was some prelim data that suggests, Ah, maybe this is beneficial, but like you've got multiple trials, like you kind of need to move on to something else.

Speaker 11

对大多数医生来说,我们对哪种药都没什么利益牵扯,就只想知道哪个真正有效。

Usually for most physicians, like, I don't really have any vested interest in Drug X or Drug Y, just want to know which one works better.

Speaker 11

所以大多数人早就放下了,但有些人却特别着迷,明明数据早就表明该换别的方向了,他们还死抱着那些毫无科学依据的东西不放。

And so, yeah, most people just kind of moved on, but some people were really kind of enamored with it and kind of stuck with things that didn't make any sense scientifically long after the data suggested they should have moved on to something else.

Speaker 2

在随机对照试验中,使用安慰剂的情况下,确实没有效果。

So no effect on the RCT placebo based trials.

Speaker 2

但当他们不做安慰剂对照,也就是开放标签研究——患者知道自己在用什么药的时候,倒是发现了一些有意思的现象。

But they did see something interesting when they did not use a placebo, what's called an open label study, where you can actually see what you're taking.

Speaker 11

在开放标签研究中,用吸入器的那组和什么都没用的那组相比,确实出现了改善。

When you did an open label, what's from an open label study where they got an inhaler versus they got nothing, there was a benefit.

Speaker 11

这从心理层面也解释了为什么,尤其是在新冠这种绝大多数人自己就会康复的病里,只要给了药,患者就会觉得是药起了作用。

And so it kind of psychologically, this also speaks to why if you give any medicine, particularly in COVID where the vast majority of people are going to get better, people think they got better because they got the medicine.

Speaker 11

所以从个人角度看,哪怕你给的药根本没用,只要给了,患者感觉好转的速度还是会比什么都不给快一点,这还挺有意思的。

And so on the individual patient perspective, even if you give them a medicine that doesn't have any benefit, they're going to feel better faster than than if you give them nothing, which is kind of interesting.

Speaker 11

而不是安慰剂的作用。

Instead of the placebo.

Speaker 11

对。

Right.

Speaker 11

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 2

所以这确实有效,但不是药物本身的作用?

So it's a real effect, it's just not the medicine?

Speaker 11

不是药物的作用,但就像你说的,确实如此。

It's just not the medicine, but it's like you yeah.

Speaker 11

这其实反映了思维的力量,也就是所谓的安慰剂效应。

And it's it's like the I mean, the power of thinking, but it's, yeah, the placebo effect.

Speaker 11

所以这确实是一种真实存在的现象。

So it's so it's a real thing.

Speaker 2

这个发现很重要,因为在现实生活中,人们正是这样服用各种药物的,包括伊维菌素,都是非盲给药。

This is an important finding because in the real world, this is how people were taking medicines, all sorts of medicines, including ivermectin, an open label.

Speaker 2

他们能看到药瓶上的标签。

They saw the label.

Speaker 2

他们服下药后,很多人确实感觉好些了。

They took a dose, and a lot of them felt better.

Speaker 2

我们再来看看西蒙妮。

Here is Simone again.

Speaker 2

这位女士在波特兰的一家杂货店负责保健品销售。

This is the woman who managed supplements at the Portland grocery store.

Speaker 2

她在感染新冠之前,和丈夫一起看过自然疗法医生。

She went to a natural path with her husband before she got COVID.

Speaker 12

我知道自己想备一些伊维菌素,但不容易弄到。

I knew that I wanted to have ivermectin on hand, but it wasn't super easy to get ahold of.

Speaker 12

他从一家配药房拿到了处方。

He was able to get a prescription at a compounding pharmacy.

Speaker 2

你能说说你刚感染新冠时发生了什么吗?

Can you walk me through kind of what happened when you first got COVID?

Speaker 12

我丈夫刚做完膝盖置换手术。

My husband had just had a knee replacement surgery.

Speaker 12

第二天我就染上了新冠。

And the next day is when I came down with COVID.

Speaker 12

头二十四小时我整个人都昏昏沉沉的。

And so I was very out of it for the first twenty four hours.

Speaker 12

我 basically 就是睡了一整天。

I literally just slept.

Speaker 12

到了第三天,我浑身疼得厉害,但只吃了一粒药,几个小时后,感觉就好多了。

By day three of the incredible body pain that I was experiencing And within a couple hours of taking just the one pill, I I just felt amazingly improved.

Speaker 12

大概有八成的疼痛都消失了。

Probably, I don't know, 80% of the body pain had gone away.

Speaker 12

真的特别惊人。

It was just pretty mind blowing, actually.

Speaker 12

如果再选一次,我还会吃。

I mean, I would take it again.

Speaker 2

我想说,我很感谢西蒙妮的分享,也欣赏她愿意讲出自己的经历。

Now I want to say, I appreciate Simone's perspective and her willingness to share her story.

Speaker 2

她完全没必要这么做,所以我真的很感激她。

She did not have to, so I am grateful to her.

Speaker 2

我觉得她的经历说明了这件事有多难搞清楚。

And I think her experience shows how hard this is to figure out.

Speaker 2

她感染了新冠,服用了伊维菌素,然后就好了。

She had COVID, she took Ivermectin, and she got better.

Speaker 2

她相信伊维菌素对她有效,而且她确实有理由这么想。

She believes Ivermectin worked for her, and she has reason to.

Speaker 2

正如布卢瓦医生所说,有时候就是这么凑巧有效。

As doctor Bulware explained, sometimes it just works that way.

Speaker 2

但个人经历和科学证据是两回事。

But there is a difference between experience and evidence.

Speaker 2

在全球性危机中,让科学慢慢得出结论真的很难。

And during a global crisis, it can be really difficult to let the science play out.

Speaker 2

对我来说,新冠时期令人心碎,不只是因为美国有一百万人死于病毒,全球有七百万人丧生。

To me, COVID was just a heartbreaking time, not just because of the million people in The US who died of the virus or the seven million who died worldwide.

Speaker 2

六年后的今天,让我最痛心的是,新冠撕裂了政府与人民之间的信任——政府本该服务人民,撕裂了科学与公众之间的信任——科学本该帮助公众,也撕裂了公共卫生与民众之间的信任。

What breaks my heart six years later is how COVID broke the trust between government and the citizens government should serve, between science and the people science is trying to help, between public health and the public.

Speaker 2

新冠当然不是唯一的原因,但它确实严重打击了人与人之间、以及人们对各种机构的信任。

COVID was certainly not the only factor at work, but, man, did it do a doozy on the trust people put in each other and in our institutions.

Speaker 2

它让我们每个人都很难分辨,到底该相信谁,该依赖谁。

It made it difficult for all of us to know who can we count on, who can we put our faith in.

Speaker 2

2021年2月,默克公司——也就是发现伊维菌素的那家公司——发布声明说,他们的科学家审阅了所有现有研究,发现根本没有确凿证据表明伊维菌素对新冠患者有临床效果。

In February 2021, Merck, that's the company that discovered Ivermectin, they put out a statement saying that their scientists had reviewed all available research, and they found that they identified, quote, no meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID nineteen disease.

Speaker 2

这可是默克公司啊。

And this was Merck.

Speaker 2

如果伊维菌素真有效,他们能赚大钱的。

They stood to make a lot of money if ivermectin did work.

Speaker 2

到了2021年9月,美国医学会和美国药剂师协会联合发表声明,明确反对在临床试验之外使用伊维菌素来预防或治疗新冠。

And then in September 2021, there was a statement from the American Medical Association and the American Pharmacists Association, quote, strongly opposing the ordering, prescribing, or dispensing of ivermectin to prevent or treat COVID nineteen outside of a clinical trial, unquote.

Speaker 2

他们不仅说这药没用,还指出伊维菌素实际上会对患者造成伤害。

Not only did they say it wasn't helpful, but that ivermectin was demonstrated to be harmful to patients.

Speaker 2

但对于那些早已不信任医疗体系的人来说,这种说法反而更像是在火上浇油。

But for those who had already lost faith in the medical establishment, this was probably just more fuel added to the fire of distrust.

Speaker 2

他们想要医疗自由,能自己做研究、自己做决定。

They wanted their medical freedom to do their own research and make their own choices.

Speaker 2

我不会把新冠期间发生的每一件事都一一细说。

Now I'm not going to chronicle everything that happened with COVID.

Speaker 2

我不会谈疫苗、封城,或者病毒的源头。

I'm not getting to vaccines or lockdowns or where the virus originated.

Speaker 2

那些事跟我要讲的故事无关。

That story is not this story.

Speaker 2

我只想提一下,2021年底,YouTube决定下架平台上所有包含危险新冠信息的视频。

I will just note that in late twenty twenty one, YouTube decided to remove videos from their platform that contained dangerous coronavirus information.

Speaker 2

超过一百万条视频被删了,但平台上依然还有很多,成千上万条,TikTok和Instagram上也一样。

Over 1,000,000 videos were removed, But there are still many videos there, thousands of them, and more still on TikTok or Instagram.

Speaker 2

有时候,只要有一条视频,就能重新点燃人们的讨论。

And sometimes, it just takes one video to get people talking again.

Speaker 3

我给你讲个有意思的故事。

I'll tell you a good story.

Speaker 3

好的。

Okay.

Speaker 3

我有三个朋友。

I have three friends.

Speaker 3

他们三个人都得了四期癌症。

All three of them had stage four cancer.

Speaker 3

但现在他们三人都完全康复了,之前病情都挺严重的。

All three of them don't have cancer right now at all, and they had some serious stuff going on.

Speaker 13

那他们用了什么药?

And what did they take?

Speaker 3

耶稣。

Jesus.

Speaker 3

他们用了一些你听说过的那些东西。

They took some what you've heard they've taken.

Speaker 13

伊维菌素。

Ivermectin.

Speaker 13

芬苯达唑。

Fenbendazole.

Speaker 13

芬苯达唑。

Fenbendazole.

Speaker 13

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 3

没错。

That's Yeah.

Speaker 3

我最近经常听到这个。

I'm hearing that a lot.

Speaker 3

他们还喝过什么盐酸类的东西。

They drank hydrochloride something or other.

Speaker 13

现在已经有研究了,有人已经证实了这些案例。

There's studies on that now where people have proven that they People

Speaker 8

喝亚甲蓝

of drinking methylene

Speaker 3

蓝色之类的物质

blue and stuff

Speaker 13

就像这样。

like Yeah.

Speaker 13

亚甲基蓝,原本是一种纺织染料。

Methylene blue, which was a fabric dye.

Speaker 13

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 13

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 13

它是一种纺织染料。

It was a textile dye.

Speaker 13

现在人们发现它对线粒体有显著影响。

And now they find it has profound effects on your mitochondria.

Speaker 2

对。

Yep.

Speaker 3

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 3

这东西真管用,老兄。

This stuff works, man.

Speaker 3

有一种

There's a

Speaker 13

有很多东西确实有效,这很奇怪。

lot of stuff that does work, which is very strange

Speaker 8

对。

Mhmm.

Speaker 2

因为归根结底还是利益问题。

Because, again, it's profit.

Speaker 2

没错,那是奥斯卡获奖者梅尔·吉布森和喜剧演员乔·罗根在2025年1月的对话。

That was, yes, Academy Award winner Mel Gibson and comedian Joe Rogan back in January 2025.

Speaker 2

这段节目已经有一千二百多万人观看了。

More than 12,000,000 people have watched that episode.

Speaker 2

实际上,这些说法完全没有证据支持。

Now there is no evidence for any of that, in fact.

Speaker 2

已经有很多研究探讨了伊维菌素对各种癌症的潜在治疗效果,比如卵巢癌、肝癌、乳腺癌、胰腺癌、肺癌等等。

There have been many, many studies looking into the potential therapeutic effects of ivermectin on various cancer, ovarian cancer, liver cancer, breast cancer, pancreatic cancer, lung cancer, and so on.

Speaker 2

不同类型的癌症在人体内的发展过程可能截然不同。

Different cancers can have very different courses in the human body.

Speaker 2

所以,对某种癌症有效的药物,往往对另一种癌症就没什么用。

So drugs that work in one type often, very often, do not work in another kind of cancer.

Speaker 2

到目前为止,大部分研究都只是在培养皿里进行的体外实验。

Most of the research so far is in vitro, in a petri dish.

Speaker 2

所以,前面提到的那些限制同样适用。

So the same caveats as above.

Speaker 2

在培养皿里或小鼠身上有效的疗法,未必能在人体上起作用。

What works in a petri dish or a mouse, it may not work in a human being.

Speaker 2

它也许能杀死癌细胞,但所需的剂量也可能同时杀死患者。

It may kill the cancer, but in amounts that could also kill the human.

Speaker 2

但这些研究没有一项是大规模的人体随机对照试验。

And none of these have been large scale randomized controlled trials in humans.

Speaker 2

所以证据非常有限,尽管梅尔·吉布森说得天花乱坠。

So the data is scant despite what Mel Gibson says.

Speaker 2

但发生变化的是,当时在华盛顿掌权的人换了。

But what has changed is who was in charge back in Washington.

Speaker 2

2026年2月,新上任的国立卫生研究院院长表示,NIH应当成为MAHA的研究部门。

And in February 2026, the new director of the National Institutes of Health, who has said the NIH should serve as the research arm of MAHA

Speaker 7

大家好。

Hey, everyone.

Speaker 7

我今天来跟大家说说,我们怎么才能让美国重新变得健康。

I'm here today to tell you how we can make America healthy again.

Speaker 2

国家癌症研究所所长也说,他们已经资助了关于伊维菌素治疗癌症的多项研究,而且这些研究已经在进行中。

And the head of the National Cancer Institute said that they had funded studies of ivermectin cancer treatments that are already underway.

Speaker 2

这是NIH负责人说的话。

Here's what the head of the NIH said.

Speaker 2

如果很多人相信这件事,而且它真的在影响公共健康,那我们NIH就有责任认真对待。

If lots of people believe it and it's moving public health, we at NIH have an obligation again to treat it seriously.

Speaker 2

但其实,事情不该是这么运作的。

Well, that's not actually the way it's supposed to work.

Speaker 2

光有人相信,并不意味着就值得投入研究,更不值得花我们的钱去做实验。

Just because people believe something does not mean it's worthy of study or that it is worth the money, our money, to do the research.

Speaker 2

不过算了。

But whatever.

Speaker 2

现在他们就是这么做决定的。

That's the way they make decisions now.

Speaker 2

相关研究已经在进行了。

Studies are underway.

Speaker 2

也许真有效果。

Maybe it works.

Speaker 2

谁知道呢?

Who knows?

Speaker 2

佛罗里达州也紧随其后。

And the great state of Florida isn't far behind.

Speaker 2

2025年底,阳光之州的卫生总监宣布设立六千万美元的癌症创新基金,用于研究伊维菌素在癌症治疗中的潜在价值。

In late twenty twenty five, the surgeon general of the Sunshine State announced a $60,000,000 cancer innovation fund that would study, among other things, the value of ivermectin for cancer treatments.

Speaker 2

这没问题。

This is fine.

Speaker 2

毕竟,这正是我在节目中一直主张的。

It's what I have argued for in this show after all.

Speaker 2

做科学实验。

Do the science.

Speaker 2

验证你的假设。

Test your hypotheses.

Speaker 2

但就像布卢瓦医生说的,如果无效,就该放手。

But like doctor Bulware explained, if it does not work, move on.

Speaker 2

去找更好的方法。

Find something better.

Speaker 2

因为即使你测试的东西没效果,也还是会有很多安慰剂效应,而每一个这样的效应都会变成一个故事、一段经历、一份证言。

Because even when you test something that doesn't work, you still get a lot of placebo effects, and each of those becomes an anecdote, a story, a testimonial.

Speaker 2

对很多人来说,这些个人故事比统计数据、p值或相对风险降低的计算更有说服力,所以我们完全能预料到会有更多这样的故事出现。

And to a lot of people, anecdotes are much more compelling than statistics and p values and relative risk reduction calculations, and we should expect a lot more anecdotes.

Speaker 2

最近,田纳西、阿肯色、爱达荷、路易斯安那和得克萨斯这五个州已经投票决定,让伊维菌素无需医生处方即可在药店直接购买。

Recently, five states, Tennessee, Arkansas, Idaho, Louisiana, and Texas have voted to make Ivermectin available over the counter without a doctor's prescription.

Speaker 2

这些州并没有出现钩虫病或河盲症的激增。

These states are not seeing an upsurge in hookworm or any river blindness.

Speaker 2

人们只是想备着以防万一,美其名曰——医疗自由。

It's just for people who want it on hand just in case in the name of, yes, medical freedom.

Speaker 2

但自由不过是另一个说法,本质上就是想卖东西给你。

But freedom's just another word for trying to sell you something.

Speaker 2

你看看那些保健品就知道了。

Just look at supplements.

Speaker 2

那些兜售未经证实疗法的人,往往都手上有产品要卖,这绝非巧合。

It's no coincidence that a lot of people promising unproven things have a product they want you to buy.

Speaker 2

证据和有效性之所以重要,是因为当医生或科学家说某样东西没用时,他们并不是想剥夺人们使用它的权利。

This idea of evidence, of validity, it matters because when doctors or scientists say something doesn't work, they are not trying to deny people access to something.

Speaker 2

他们也不是想隐瞒什么。

They're not trying to hide something.

Speaker 2

事实上,他们是在努力寻找真正有效的东西。

In fact, they're trying to find something, something that works.

Speaker 2

他们通常想帮人们避免浪费时间、金钱和希望。

And they're generally trying to save people from wasting time and money and hope.

Speaker 2

而希望在这里尤其珍贵,因为疾病让人陷入绝望,而在绝望的时候,没有什么比希望更宝贵了。

And hope is particularly precious here because disease makes people desperate, and nothing is more valuable in desperate times than hope.

Speaker 2

以上就是本期《药物故事》的全部内容。

That's it for this episode of Drug Story.

Speaker 2

如需查看本期引用资料的详细清单,请访问 drugstory.co。

For an annotated list of our sources for this episode, visit drugstory.co.

Speaker 2

《药物故事》由我托马斯·盖茨创作、撰稿并主持。

Drug Story was created, written, and hosted by me, Thomas Getz.

Speaker 2

蕾切尔·斯瓦比是我们节目的制作人和音效设计师。

Rachel Swaby is our producer and sound designer.

Speaker 2

马克·布什是我们节目的工程师。

Mark Bush is our engineer.

Speaker 2

莫莉·沃纳是我们节目的研究总监。

Molly Warner is our research director.

Speaker 2

《药物故事》由加州大学伯克利分校公共卫生学院支持制作。

Drug Story produced with support from the University of California, Berkeley School of Public Health.

Speaker 2

感谢我们的嘉宾西蒙妮和大卫·布卢瓦医生。

Thank you to our guests, Simone and doctor David Bulware.

Speaker 2

《药物故事》是一个独立制作的节目。

Drug Story is an independent production.

Speaker 2

如果您想支持我们的工作,请通过 drugstory.co 联系我们。

If you would like to support our work, contact us at drugstory.co.

Speaker 2

您也可以在那边订阅我们的 Substack,及时收到新节目的更新通知。

You can also subscribe to our Substack there and be notified when new episodes come out.

Speaker 2

我想告诉大家,我们正在筹备第二季。

And I wanna let you know, we are gearing up for a season two.

Speaker 2

还有很多关于药物的故事等着讲。

We have a lot more drug stories to tell.

Speaker 2

本期《药物故事》可能会让你感到皮肤发痒、不停抓挠,甚至去搜索‘妄想性寄生虫病’这类术语。

This episode of Drug Story might cause itching, scratching, and googling of terms like delusional parasitosis.

Speaker 2

我们建议你穿好鞋子、勤洗手,也给医生和自己多一点尊重。

We recommend you wear shoes, wash your hands, and grant your doctors and yourself a little more respect.

Speaker 0

你可以到 drugstory.co 收听《药物故事》第一季全部内容。

You can listen to all of the first season of Drug Story at drugstory.co.

Speaker 0

去听听吧。

Go listen.

Speaker 0

真的非常棒。

It is fantastic.

Speaker 0

第二季目前正在制作中。

Season two is currently in production.

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