Forensic Radiology Career Guide: How to Become a Forensic Rad Tech

大家好，在开始今天这期节目之前，我想先提醒你们一下。

Hey friends, before we start today's episode, I wanna make sure you get a quick heads up.

今天的对话会涉及死亡调查和法医成像的相关内容。

This conversation includes topics around death investigations and forensic imaging.

我们会以尊重且具有教育意义的方式讨论这些话题，但某些细节可能会让部分听众感到敏感或情绪上难以接受。

We talk about this in a respectful educational way, but some details may be sensitive or emotional for certain listeners.

所以请在收听时照顾好自己的情绪。

So please take care while listening.

欢迎回到《放射科技人员》播客，这档节目带你们了解医学影像和放射技术领域的真实故事、经验与幕后点滴。

Welcome back to a couple of Rad Tech's podcast, the show where we bring real stories, lessons, and behind the scenes insight from the world of medical imaging and radiologic technology.

我是你们的主持人肖恩，今天这期节目，可能会改变你们对这份职业的看法。

I'm your host, Shawn, and today's episode is one that might just change the way you see this profession.

我们大多数人进入医学影像行业，都是为了帮助活着的人——诊断病情、给予安慰、促进康复。

Most of us enter medical imaging to help the living, to diagnose, to comfort, to heal.

如果我说，抱歉。

What if I, excuse me.

但如果你的影像还能为逝者发声，协助破案，甚至给悲痛的家属带来慰藉呢？

But what if your scans could also help speak for the deceased, solve crimes, or give a grieving family closure?

今天这位嘉宾做的，正是这样的工作。

That's exactly what today's guest does.

欢迎回到《两位放射技师》播客，我们在这里分享医学影像与放射技术领域真实的故事、经验与幕后洞察。

Welcome back to a couple of Rad Tech's podcast, the show where we bring real stories, lessons, and behind the scenes insight from the world of medical imaging and radiology technology.

我是你们的主持人肖恩，今天的这期节目，可能会彻底改变你对这份职业的看法。

I'm your host, Shawn, and today's episode is one that might just change the way you see this profession.

我们大多数人进入医学影像行业，是为了帮助活人，进行诊断、给予安慰、促进康复。

Most of us enter medical imaging to help the living, to diagnose, to comfort and to heal.

但如果你的影像还能为逝者发声，协助破案，甚至给悲痛的家属带来慰藉呢？

But what if your scans could also help speak for the deceased, solve crimes or give a grieving family closure?

今天这位嘉宾做的，正是这样的工作。

That's exactly what today's guest does.

让我们用热烈的掌声欢迎谢丽尔·皮奇。

Let's give a warm welcome to Sheryl Peachy.

她是一名放射技师兼教育主管，负责影像项目，同时担任法医影像专家已有十七年了，各位。

She's a Radiologic Technologist and Educator Director of Imaging Program and a part time Forensic Imaging Specialist for over seventeen years, you guys.

她持有放射摄影和CT等多项认证，目前还在新墨西哥大学担任高级讲师兼代理主任。

She holds certifications in modalities such as Radiography, CT, and she currently again serves as Senior Lecturer and Interim Director at the University of New Mexico.

但让我特别着迷的是她在新墨西哥州法医调查办公室的工作——她利用CT和X光影像来判断死因、识别遗体。

But what really fascinates me is her work at the New Mexico Office of Medical Investigator, Well, where she uses CT and X-ray imaging to determine causes of death, identity decedents.

这么说对吗？

Was that correct?

遗体。

Decedents.

识别遗体，并通过科学手段助力司法公正。

Identity decedents and support justice through science.

各位，这期内容绝对精彩。

You guys, this is gonna be great.

这是我们行业中很少有人了解，甚至很多同行都没听过的领域。

It's part of our field that very few people, even some of us in the field have ever seen, let alone heard about.

听了谢丽尔在本节目中的故事和经历后，我相信很多同行都会对我们的扫描设备有新的看法。

And after listening to Sheryl's story and experience here on this podcast, I think a lot of you will look at the scanners differently in our profession.

欢迎谢丽尔来到《两位放射技师》的节目。

So welcome Sheryl to a couple of Rad Techs.

非常感谢你们邀请我，肖德里亚。

Thank you so much for having me, Shondria.

我很期待能和你们以及你们的听众聊聊。

I'm excited to talk to you and your listeners.

我们也很高兴你能来。

We are excited to have you.

我得先问你一个问题。

So I have to start with this question.

你是怎么开始从事法医影像工作的？

How did you first get into forensic imaging?

对我来说，这还是最近才发生的事。

So this is recent for me.

这是个新领域，我总爱尝试新鲜事物，不断学习，保持新鲜感。

It's a new venture and I'm always trying new things, trying to keep it fresh, trying to keep learning all the time.

正是这种态度让我在职业生涯中始终保持专注。

That's what helps me stay focused in this career.

我最早听说法医影像，是在当X光技术专业学生的时候。

So I first heard about forensic imaging when I was a X-ray Tech student.

我的项目主管后来成了我在教育行业里的导师，他曾在军队服役，讲过自己过去做法医X光的经历。

And my program director who later became a mentor in the education profession to me was trained in the military and talked about doing some forensic X-ray in his previous experience.

我当时觉得特别有意思。

And it was really fascinating to me.

后来我从新墨西哥大学拿到学士学位那会儿，学校的法医调查办公室和放射科刚好拿到一笔大额资助，开展法医影像研究。

And then around the time that I received my bachelor's degree from UNM here, the Office of the Medical Investigator and the Radiology Department here at UNM got a big grant to do research on forensic imaging.

我听说了这件事，觉得特别吸引人，但当时并没有参与进去。

And I had heard about it, thought it was really fascinating, but didn't get involved at that point.

所以那时候你刚入行，你的导师就跟你提过这事？

So this was at the beginning while you just got into it, your mentor.

大概是2010年2月左右，我记得他们拿到了这笔资助。

This is around 02/2010, I think they got the grant.

但在那之前，我想问一下，你听到这个消息的时候还是学生，还是已经入行了？

But before that, let me ask you before that, were you a student when you heard about it or you had gotten into the field?

我听到的时候还是学生，是我在X光课上的教授提到的。

I was a student when I heard about it, yeah, from my professor in X-ray.

是什么让你对这个感兴趣呢？

What excited you about that?

是觉得特别吸引人，还是根本没当回事？

Like, was it exciting or were you like, I don't know about that?

我当时真的很感兴趣。

I was excited.

我特别着迷。

I was really fascinated.

听起来就特别有意思。

It just sounded really interesting to me.

只是听我教授讲那些做这项工作的故事，有时候拿到一袋袋的零件，还得想办法还原身份，这听起来真的特别有意思，也让我惊叹于我们甚至能通过骨盆骨骼来判断患者性别。

Just hearing the stories that my professor told about doing it and just getting sometimes just bags of parts and having to try to reconstruct identity or It just sounded really interesting to me and really amazing what we're able to do even as far as determining the gender of the patient based on their pelvic bones.

是的。

Yeah.

所以这件事一直让我觉得特别吸引人。

So it was something that just always sounded really interesting.

我除了喜欢医疗剧，也特别爱看犯罪悬疑类的剧集。

I love the crime drama investigation shows in addition to the ER shows.

没错，我就是那种追医疗剧的狂热粉丝，还有《今日聚焦》和《48小时》这类节目。

Right, I'm one of those ER show junkies and Dateline and forty eight Hours, yeah.

这对我来说特别有意思，因为我在这个领域已经二十年了，当初是通过在犯罪现场调查部门工作的朋友了解到的，他们经常聊到医学影像是怎么用的。

So it's really interesting to me because I've been in the field for twenty years and I heard about it because I have friends that work in the crime scene investigator, that part of the government, and they talk about how medical imaging is used.

而且外面确实有不少这样的案例。

And there are several cases out there.

但我还是想先从我们圈内人说起，因为我觉得这里头有两个层面。

But I want to start with those of us in the field because I think it's going to be twofold here.

包括从事这一行的人、学生，还有圈外对这个感兴趣的人。

People that work in the field that are going to be interested in this, people that are students, as well as people outside of our field.

所以你可以跟那些学生聊聊，当初你听说这件事的时候，是课程里有提到，还是只是偶然听到，然后你心想，这事儿值得琢磨一下？

So maybe talk to those students and help them to understand when it was mentioned to you, was there a curriculum or anything or was it just mentioned to you and you were like, I'll think about it.

是的，当时根本没有相关课程，我就在想，这事儿到底该怎么干？

Yeah, so no, there wasn't a curriculum and I was like, how do I do that?

我想学会怎么做这个。

I want to learn how to do that.

那时候基本上就是，有时候他们会要求在遗体送交法医办公室之前先拍几张X光片，具体怎么操作各地也不一样。

And at that time it's basically just, sometimes they would ask for x rays on a decedent before they're taken to the Coroner's Office or however they handle it.

你得刚好在正确的时间出现在正确的地点才行。

So you just have to kind of be at the right place at the right time.

目前在美国，专门做法医影像的实验室其实并不多。

There's still, there are not that very many dedicated forensic imaging laboratories in The US.

我知道的大概只有三个，包括这里阿尔伯克基的这一个。

I think I know of about three, including the one here in Albuquerque.

所以我觉得，对大多数人来说，这很大程度上就是时机和地点刚好对上。

So I think it's, for the most part, it's kind of like right place, right time for a lot of people.

但你们在新墨西哥州展现出了这方面的需求，也说明了它如何填补那些空白——法医病理学家是必需的，要弄清人们到底发生了什么，很多东西都不可或缺。

But you guys in New Mexico are showing the need for it and how it can fill in those gaps because forensic pathologist is needed and a lot of things are needed in order to figure out what happened to people and some things are just not known.

我们知道，放射学、X光和CT扫描能够看清人体内部，无论人是生是死，这对判断可能的内伤至关重要。

We know radiology and X-ray and CT, being able to see within someone, whether they're alive or not, is very important to understanding maybe internal injuries.

你能跟我们说说CT和X光吗？我以前一直以为只有X光。

So can you tell us how CT and X-ray, because I always thought just X-ray.

那CT呢？

How about CT?

你们在调查死亡案件、收集证据时，是怎么使用CT和X光的？

How do you guys use CT and X-ray in investigating deaths and gathering evidence?

在我们的影像中心，凡是送到法医调查办公室的遗体，我们几乎都会做CT扫描。

So at our imaging center, we use CT for pretty much every single decedent that comes through the Office of the Medical Investigators.

我们有几套标准的扫描流程。

So we have a few standard protocols.

我们有一套针对骨骼残骸的扫描流程。

We have a skeletal remains protocol.

我们还有针对成年人和儿童的标准扫描流程。

We have an adult standard protocol and a pediatric standard protocols.

成年人的流程就是从头到脚全身体扫一遍，然后做些多平面重建，调整不同的窗宽窗位之类的操作。

The adult is just a head to toe scan, and then we do some multi planar reconstructions and different windows and that kind of thing.

这些图像能帮助我们判断是否需要做完整尸检，还是仅做体表检查就够了。

And then those images are used to determine whether or not a full autopsy is needed or if it can just be a surface exam.

这能大幅节省成本、时间和人力，因为法医病理学家本来就严重短缺，就像放射技师和CT技师，以及其他几乎所有医疗岗位一样。

And then that is a huge cost savings and time saving and resource because forensic pathologists are, we've got a shortage of them just like we do x-ray techs and CT techs and pretty much every other medical provider.

我一直在想，很多部门在凶杀案上都积压了大量案件。

And I was thinking how backlog many departments are with homicides.

使用医学影像和法医技术，正如你所说，不仅能省钱，还能加快进程，帮助家属获得 closure，也让检方和辩护律师能更快做出判断，避免案件悬而未决、被人遗忘。

Using medical imaging and forensics can, like you say, not only save money, but it can speed up time in helping families get closure, helping prosecutors and defense attorneys come to a conclusion on something where it's just not hanging in the balance and gets forgotten about.

我很欣赏你提到的那一点，说其实真正懂这些的人就那么几个。

I love how you talked about there are just a few.

新墨西哥州做了一件事，你刚才提到过一笔拨款。

And one thing that New Mexico did, you were earlier talking about a grant.

你们当时是怎么操作的？

How did you guys, like, how does that work?

最后结果怎么样？

How did that work out?

那是 NIH 的一笔拨款，我当时还没来。

So that it was an NIH grant and I wasn't around at that time.

具体细节我不太清楚，但医疗调查办公室和新墨西哥大学放射科一起拿到了这笔 NIH 拨款，主要想研究一下 CT 扫描能不能准确判断死因，同时节省成本。

I don't know all the details, but Office of the Medical Investigator along with UNM's radiology department received this NIH grant to do, to study among other things, I think specifically if CT scan could determine cause of death and save money.

天啊，我觉得这真的太有意思、太了不起了。

Wow, I just think it's so fascinating and so amazing.

我们根本没给放射科和影像技术应得的认可。

We just don't give radiology and imaging the credit that it needs.

我觉得大多数人根本不知道这其中涉及多少工作，我们不仅在医院里发挥作用，还在为无数家庭带来真相与慰藉。

I don't think people really, really understand what all goes into and how many places we touch, not just in the hospital, but we're bringing closure to people's family.

我很好奇，当你告诉别人你是法医影像师时，他们通常会怎么反应？

I wonder, when you tell people that you are a forensic imager, what do they say?

大家一般是什么反应？

What kind of reaction do you get?

总是挺正面的。

It's always a good one.

在饭局上说起这个特别有意思。

It's a fun one to pull out at dinner parties.

每个人都很好奇，都特别感兴趣。

Everybody's interested, everybody's fascinated.

那这工作到底是怎么样的？

Well, what is that like?

你为什么选择做这个？

Why do you do it?

你到底能看到些什么？

Like, what do you see?

你是怎么应对这些的呢？

Like, how do you deal with it?

当然，我所有的朋友——我觉得我们这个年纪的女性都特别迷犯罪播客和真实案件故事。

And of course, all my friends, I think it's us ladies of a certain age, we're all into kind of the crime podcasts and the date

是的，你一说自己是做什么的，这话题立马就能点燃餐桌上的气氛。

Yeah, I would think that would be a real good conversation starter at the table.

只要你一说自己的职业，所有人的目光都会立刻转向谢丽尔。

All eyes shift towards Sheryl when you say what you do for a living.

大家都想跟你聊，因为普通人根本不知道我们还有这样的工作。

Everybody wants to talk to you because it's just not something that people know that we do.

我觉得，真正去谈论这件事，你上这个播客，不仅能让患者和医疗圈外的人明白医学影像有多重要，也能让我们技术人员重新认识自己——有时候我们自己都觉得，哎，不就是个副学士学位吗？我不过是个放射技师罢了。

And I think really talking about it and you coming on this podcast, opening up not only patients' minds and people out of the healthcare realm to understand that how important medical imaging is to everyone, but also to us technologists, because sometimes we get into our head that, Oh, it's just an associate's degree, or I'm just an x-ray tech.

正因如此，我特别鼓励刚毕业的高中生，如果考虑进入这个领域，一定要去读放射技术学校。

This is where, to me, I really push going to Radiologic Technology School for those entering from high school, younger individuals.

这能为你打开多种选择，铺就一条长远且充满机会的职业道路。

It gives you the ability to create options and a long term career that gives you opportunities.

这正是上放射技术学校才能获得的机会，对吧？

And this is one of the opportunities that you can only get by going to Radiologic Technology School, right?

没错，就是这样。

Right, exactly.

要操作OMI扫描，你不仅得有X光认证，还得有CT认证。

To scan an OMI that you need to be certified not only in x-ray, but CT as well.

这确实需要专门的培训。

And so it takes that training.

我很高兴你提到这一点，这正是我常对刚入行的学生说的话。

And I do love that you said that because that's what I tell my students getting into the field all the time.

每个人都能找到自己的位置。

There's a place for every single person.

你可以找到自己的专长，也可以尝试几个不同的方向。

You will find your niche or try several different places.

如果你喜欢在办公室工作，完全可以在办公室里做。

There's something, if you want to be in an office, you can be in an office.

想扫描遗体吗？你也可以做这一块，或者任何中间的领域都行。

Wanna scan decedents, you can do that and be part of that field or really, I mean, anything in between.

正因如此，这个领域真的很值得进入。

So it's a great field to get into for that reason.

我同意。

I agree.

这里总有很多新东西要学。

It's always something to learn.

你说到点子上了。

You hit the nail on the head.

从刚才的对话中，我理解到，法医影像就是放射学与司法的交汇。

So one of the things I got from that piece of this conversation is forensic imaging is what happens when radiology meets justice.

我们关注的不只是疾病，更是揭开真相。

And we're just not looking for a disease, we're uncovering the truth.

你刚才提到，当你告诉别人你的工作时，聚会上会引发什么样的对话。

Now you talked about dinner parties and the conversations that happen when you tell people what you do.

给我们的听众讲讲，法医影像师的一天是怎样的？

Tell our audience, what does a day in the life of a forensic imager look like?

好的，通常得特别早开始。

Okay, so it starts really early.

我们得在主治医生、住院医和所有人开会讨论病例之前，把所有扫描做完。

We need to have all our scans done before the attendings and residents and everyone meet to go over the cases.

所以我每天早上五点四十五就到岗，先对设备做质量检查。

So, I clock in about 05:45 in the morning, run QCs on the equipment.

首先得全副武装：鞋套、防护服、手套、N95口罩、帽子，一样都不能少。

Well, first suit up head to toe, shoe covers, apron, gloves, N95 respirator, bouffant cap, wear everything.

做完设备检查，打印当天的任务单，弄清楚今天要处理哪些案子。

Do QCs on the equipment, print out my docket, figure out what's going on for the day.

另外还有形态学技术员帮忙，他们承担了大部分繁重的工作。

And then we have morphology technicians who assist and do a lot of the heavy lifting.

很多人问我，这工作难不难？

So that's something that a lot of people ask me, is it hard?

有人会问，是不是得我们自己把遗体搬上搬下扫描仪？其实不用，他们做得特别棒。

Like, do you have bring the, put the decedents on and off the scanner and no, they're amazing.

他们真的非常出色。

They're wonderful.

帮了我们太多忙了。

They help out so much.

我特别喜欢这里的一点，就是每个人都很积极，充满正能量，团队配合得特别默契。

And one of the things I love about working there is that everybody is so positive and has such great energy and works so well as a team.

我们确实会面对一些沉重的、令人心酸的情况。

And we see hard things, we see sad things.

有时候一天真的特别压抑，但大家都会互相支持，关心彼此，我们是一起扛着的。

Sometimes some days are really heavy, but everybody's there to support each other and checking on each other and we're in it together.

这一点真的特别难得。

That's a great thing about that.

这样，我们的扫描工作就完成了。

So we get our scans done.

从头到脚扫描一次大概需要六分钟。

It takes about six minutes to do a head to toe.

然后我们就把所有扫描都做完。

And then we just get all the scans done.

接着我进去做图像重建，发送出去，之后参加病例讨论会，这个特别有意思，因为我们会完整听一遍病例汇报，如果有人对影像有疑问，或者想要求额外检查，我们都在现场。

Then I go in and do all the reconstruction, send them through, and then we go into the meeting and that's really interesting because we listen to the whole case presentation and can answer questions if anybody has questions on the imaging or if they want to ask for something additional, we're in there.

会议通常在早上九点左右结束。

Then that wraps up, the meeting wraps up usually around 09:00.

所以这个班其实挺短的。

So it's a short little shift.

做完这些，我就去上课，接着忙下一件事。

So I'll do that and then go about my day teaching and onto the next usually.

你们会遇到积压的病例吗？

Do you guys ever get any stack cases?

我住在一个大城市，有时候吧，新墨西哥我也去过，那地方也不小。

I live in a big city, so sometimes, you know, and New Mexico, I'm sure I've been there before, it's pretty big.

那里住着很多人。

A lot of people live there.

你们会遇到那种被紧急叫去处理的情况吗？

Do you ever get cases where it's like, you're called in?

你们需要随时待命吗？

Do you guys have to be on call?

不用，我们不用值夜班。

No, we don't take call.

基本上，从我们做完扫描到第二天再来，中间所有病例都集中起来一次性处理，一天搞定，你懂吧。

So it's basically, you know, every case that comes in from after we get done scanning till we get there the next day, we just kind of do twenty four hours worth at a time, if that makes sense.

明白。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

挺有意思的。

Interesting.

好吧，根据你这么多年来处理的案例，有没有哪一个特别让你印象深刻，愿意跟大家分享的？

Okay, so from the cases that you've seen over the period of time that you've been doing this, does one stand out to you that you're comfortable sharing with the audience?

信息很有价值。

Great information.

说到扫描仪，对于技术人员来说，这些是普通的扫描仪，还是专门的设备？

When you talk about scanners, just for technologists, are they the same scanners that, or are they special scanners?

我记得我做MRI研究的时候，设备看起来差不多，但有些地方不一样，不只是扫描参数，连配套的配件都不太一样。

I know like when I did research, MRI research, they were kind of same scanners, but there were certain things that were different about them, not just the protocols, but certain things that we accessories that came with them.

我们在扫描仪上会用一些特殊功能，切换到研究模式。

We use certain functions on the scanner a little different that were go into like research mode.

那法医成像呢？

What about for forensic imaging?

我觉得确实存在专门为法医成像设计的扫描仪。

So I do think that there is a scanner out there that is specific to forensic imaging.

但我们没有那种设备。

We don't have it.

其实，我在OMI用的这台扫描仪，和我在医院兼职时用的那台几乎一模一样。

Actually, scanner that I am working on at OMI is almost exactly the same as the one that I'm working on and my other PRN job at a hospital.

所以过渡起来特别轻松。

So it was very easy to cross over.

哇，真不错。

Wow, pretty cool.

那通常来说，你在三到四个小时的班次里，大概能做多少例扫描？

Okay, so typically you say you do how many scans of patients within a three to four hour shift?

这个差别挺大的。

So it varies a lot.

我听说平均大概是12例左右。

I've heard the average is about 12.

我最少做过5例，最多做过16例。

I've had anywhere from five to 16.

在我做16例的那天，还额外做了两例骨骼系统全面检查。

And on my sixteen day, on top of that, I had two skeletal surveys.

所以我们通常只对两岁以下的孩子使用X光。

So when we use x-ray typically is only for under two years old.

如果怀疑有非意外伤害，我们会做全身骨骼检查。

We do a skeletal survey if there's any suspicion of non accidental trauma.

这和儿童医院做的骨骼X光检查是一样的吗？

And is that similar to the skeletal x-ray that we do at Children's Healthcare?

流程完全一样。

It's exact same protocol.

真有意思。

Interesting.

天啊，这太让人震撼了，你知道吗，扫描仪从不说谎，它记录的是一个人生命最后的真相，医学影像和法医结合在一起，真的让我大开眼界。

Wow, this is interesting because you know guys, the scanner does not lie, it captures the final chapter of someone's story and medical imaging and forensic it's really blowing my mind.

我的意思是，不管是CT还是X光，都说明我们的培训有多重要，因为病人不可能乖乖躺在那儿等你发现异常。

I mean whether it's CT or X-ray, it just goes to show that our training is so important because you're just not going to have a patient lay on a table.

好了，各位。

Alright, y'all.

稍作休息。

Quick break.

但这件事对我来说意义非凡。

But this is something really close to my heart.

如果你喜欢这个播客，那你一定会爱上我们做的这个东西。

If you're loving this podcast, then you're going to love what we've created.

《拉切尔，放射技师》——一本终于让我们走进大众视野的儿童读物。

Rachel, the Radiographer, a children's book that finally puts us on the map.

它既有趣又有教育意义，而且与众不同，因为作者是一位真正的医学影像技师。

It's fun, it's educational, and it's different because it's written by a real medical imaging technologist.

没错，就是我。

Yep, me.

肖德里亚，我是一名放射技师，核磁共振技师，也是CT技师。

Shondria, I am a radiologic technologist, MRI technologist, and CT technologist.

而拉切尔，她的目标是让孩子们明白，医疗行业远不止医生和护士。

And Rachel, she's on a mission to show kids that healthcare is so much more than just doctors and nurses.

大多数人不知道，但我们其实是全国规模最大的医疗职业群体。

Most people don't know this, but we are the largest healthcare profession in the nation.

可奇怪的是，在基础教育里，我们却几乎没人提起。

Yet somehow we're invisible when it comes to early education.

这时候，拉切尔就登场了。

That's where Rachel steps in.

这本书用亲切、有趣又容易懂的方式，向孩子们——尤其是小学、图书馆，甚至医院里的孩子——介绍了X光、核磁共振、核医学和放射治疗这些领域。

This book introduces children, especially in elementary schools, libraries, and even hospitals to the world of x rays, MRIs, nuclear medicine, radiation therapy in a way that's friendly, engaging, and easy to understand.

老师们都特别喜欢，因为这简直是完美的睡前故事，还能完美衔接STEM教育。

Educators love it because it's the perfect story time read that ties right into STEM education.

帮助孩子了解医疗职业，也减轻他们对医疗检查的恐惧。

Career awareness and eases fear around medical exams.

家长喜欢，技术人员喜欢，最重要的是，孩子们一听就懂。

Parents love it, technologists love it, and most importantly, kids get it.

最棒的是，还有个点睛之笔。

And here's the cherry on top.

每售出一本书，我们都会拿出一部分收益，每年向一名放射技术专业的学生颁发500美元的奖学金。

A portion of every book sale goes towards a $500 scholarship we award every year to a student in a radiologic technology program.

如果你希望支持下一代，帮助提升公众对我们行业的认知，欢迎访问 rachaeltheradiographer.com。

So if you want to support the next generation and help spread awareness about our field, head over to rachaeltheradiographer.com.

网址是 racheltheradiographer.com。

That's racheltheradiographer.com.

让更多人拿到这本书，激发更多孩子的想象力。

Let's get this book in more hands and more imaginations.

好了，我们继续回到播客。

Now let's get back into the podcast.

这些是特别重要的案例，我们需要彻底查明当事人究竟经历了什么，才能构建完整的案件，实现正义，让家属得到答案。

These are special cases where you are really trying to get to the bottom of what happened to this individual for a proper case to be built, for justice to be served, for families to get answers.

如果你曾经是那个在司法系统中苦苦等待的人——尤其是像我们刚才提到的这类案件，相信在座的各位一定深有体会。

And if you've ever been someone waiting on a justice system, especially in cases such as these that you see, any of you listening out there.

我们必须要清楚人体解剖结构，掌握正确的体位摆放，因为患者没法开口说：‘我当时没摆好位置。’

It's so important that we know our anatomy, that we know positioning, because we don't have the patient to say, patient was, you know, we couldn't get the patient in the right position.

人们需要得到这些答案。

People need to have answers for this.

这可不是一份让人以为‘这活儿很简单’的工作。

This is not some job where I don't want people to think, Oh, this is a cake job.

我得认真对待这份工作。

I'm gonna go into this.

有时候人们会觉得，这事儿好像挺轻松的。

And, you know, people kind of think sometimes, Oh, this is really easy.

这其实是一份非常严肃且重要的工作。

You know, this is a very serious and important job.

你必须清楚自己在做什么，因为你的X光或CT拍得是否准确，可能决定一个人是否被冤枉，或者一个家庭是否永远得不到真相。

And you've really got to know what you're doing because someone's life could hang in the balance that is either being charged with this case because of how you take x rays or how you take a CT, or someone's family may not get the answers.

你拍的每一张X光片或CT，都可能影响正义的实现。

Justice could be served inaccurately by the x rays or the CTs that you take on either side.

所以我由衷佩服你的工作，但我也能想象，这些案子带来的压力有多沉重。

So I just commend what you do, but I want to transition over into I can imagine how heavy these cases can be.

在儿童医疗领域工作，让我看到了很多以前从未见过的事情。

Working in children's healthcare really it opened my eyes to a lot of things that I just never grew up seeing.

直到现在，那些经历依然会影响我。

And it still kind of affects me to this day, things that you've seen.

作为法医影像人员，你们平时接触的都是些什么案子？

But what you see as a forensic imaging professional, what's some of the cases like?

这些案子对你们有什么影响？

How have they affected you?

你们是怎么应对的？

How do you cope with them?

你之前提到过团队合作，但你们具体见过哪些情况？这些事怎么影响你们？你们又是怎么互相支持的？

How do you you talked about teamwork earlier, but how, what are some things you've seen maybe and how they affect you and how do you guys cope?

我觉得互相关心非常重要。

I think it is important that we do check on each other.

总的来说，我还是尽量专注于手头的工作。

I think for the most part, I stay focused on doing the job.

你知道吗，就像在医院照顾活人一样，根本没时间情绪崩溃，但做完之后，我觉得好好梳理一下情绪特别重要。

Know, there's like, just like working at a hospital with living patients, there's not time to fall apart emotionally, but it is important, I think, to process after we're done.

所以我回家后，会想想自己有多幸运，能回到一个温暖的家，有家人等着我。

So I go home, think about how grateful I am to be able to go home and for my family that I get to go home to.

这真的让我重新看清了自己有多幸运。

And it does really give me a new perspective on how lucky I am.

就连看到人们的居住环境和生活状况，这些事你平时根本不会注意到，除非你看到那些犯罪现场的照片，看到他们所承受的健康状况和生活困境。

Even just seeing people's living conditions and circumstances, and it's something you wouldn't, you don't see unless you're seeing those crime scene photos or seen photos and their health conditions that they're living with and all that.

所以，学会珍惜自己所拥有的，这种感恩的心态真的特别重要。

So it really gives me focusing on the gratitude for what I have is something that's really important.

我觉得，专注于自己能做的好事，专注于手头的任务，留意每一个细节，这都至关重要。

I think that focusing on the good that I am able to do and focusing on the task at hand and just paying attention to the details is really important.

这份工作让我常常忘了时间，因为实在太投入了。

And this is one of the jobs where I just, I lose track of time because I am just so focused.

有时候，看到那些儿童案件，我会给自己一分钟，让眼泪流出来，然后深吸一口气，重新振作，提醒自己正在做一件能带来意义的事。

And so, and, or giving myself that minute to like, let my eyes tear up when I see this like little pediatric case and then bring myself together and focus and realize that I'm doing something that can give

可能的答案。

answers potentially.

你之前提到过，你们也要为那些不幸被发现死在街头的无家可归者做影像检查，得弄清楚他们是怎么死的。

You mentioned earlier about even homeless, you all do imaging of homeless people that are unfortunately found deceased and you have to figure out what happened to them.

没错。

Right.

这是我们的标准流程。

It is our protocol.

只要有人在户外被发现死亡，就必须送到法医办公室来确定死因。

If someone is found outside, they have to come through the office of the medical investigator to determine cause of death.

是的，人们通常只想到虐待案件，但我也想到那些因为各种原因流落街头、最终离世的人。

Yeah, so I mean, people think of just abuse cases, but I think of people who unfortunately are homeless for whatever reason and they pass away.

你得弄清楚真相，给家属一个交代，还要确认有没有犯罪行为。

You gotta figure out, you have to give their family closure, you have to make sure no crime was committed.

每当我看到这些情况，我就会想到我的祖父。

And those are things you, for me, when I see things like that, I would think of my grandfather.

要是那是我爷爷怎么办？

What if that was my grandfather?

要是那是别人的爷爷、父亲、儿子呢？

What if that's somebody's grandfather, that's somebody's father, somebody's son.

是的，那些人曾经服役于军队，理应得到和其他人一样的关怀与尊重，他们可能还有家人不知道他们身在何处。

Yeah, that's somebody who served in the military and deserves the same care and respect that anybody does and might have family somewhere that don't know where they are.

无家可归的人群，某种程度上被我们的社会遗弃了，他们所经历的暴力，似乎不如发生在我们熟悉的人身上那样重要，尤其是当受害者和我们长得像、或我们能想象自己遭遇类似命运时。

The unhoused population is, they are in a way discarded by our society and the violence that they experience doesn't seem as important as if it was somebody who we identify with or who looks like us or who we could imagine something like that happening to us.

我认为，正是在这些情况下，我们更应该努力为他们讨回公道。

I think it's even more important in those cases that we try to find justice for them.

是的，我猜你们一定有固定的工作流程和支援系统。

Yeah, I'm sure you have routines and things that you do support systems.

我很感激这一点。

I appreciate that.

我不是说你们在关闭同情心，而是你们依然要完成工作，但你们也会给自己留出空间，也有支持系统。

It's not that you're, excuse me, it's not that you're turning off compassion, but you still have to do your job, but you do take time for yourself and you do have a support system.

所以对于那些不在法医影像领域工作，但在影像或医疗行业的人，如果你们感到精疲力尽的话。

So for those out there that may not work in forensic imaging, but work in imaging or healthcare, and you feel burned out.

试着想象一下像谢丽尔这样的人，她们在不同的岗位上，每天都要面对这样的场景。

Imagine the different ones like Sheryl who work in different spaces where you see things like this.

要学会在保持同理心的同时，不被工作吞噬，我觉得这才是这里最重要的信息。

Learn that you can stay empathetic without being consumed in what you do and I think that's really a big message here.

谢谢谢丽尔分享这些。

So thank you Sheryl for sharing that.

接下来我想聊聊，为什么法医影像这么重要。

So I want to talk a little bit about why forensic imaging matters.

在我看来，这虽然是医学中至关重要的一环，却常常被忽视。

This sounds like an important but overlooked part of medicine to me.

这真的非常关键。

It's really important.

你觉得为什么这么少的技师，甚至医院，都对法医影像一无所知？

Why do you think so few technologists, even hospitals are aware of forensic imaging?

我觉得一个主要原因是设备太贵了，很多机构负担不起。

Well, think that a big reason it's not available to more facilities is that the equipment is expensive.

CT扫描仪的价格，还有建立法医影像实验室的投入，在某些情况下确实让人望而却步。

So the cost of a CT scanner, the cost of creating a forensic imaging lab seems prohibitive in some cases.

但我们能证明的是，从长远来看，它其实能节省大量成本，是一个非常高效的工具。

What we are able to show is that long term it does save a lot of cost and it is a great tool that can lead to cost savings.

所以，拥有一个专门的设施，了解它的用途，并确信能减少一些全面尸检的需求——但很多人根本不知道这些，法医影像中心本来就很少，对吧？

So yeah, having that dedicated facility, think, and just knowing how it can be used and being certain that you can eliminate some of those full autopsies, there may just not be the awareness and definitely not the, there's not tons of forensic imaging centers, right?

这门技术太专业了，我们其实没必要到处都设。

We just, it's highly specialized and we don't need to.

我觉得法医影像的应用远不止于此，如果听众中有谁了解其他地方的情况，我很想听听，因为我听说不少人确实有相关经验，只是他们通常会利用医院夜间空闲的设备，或者外包给其他机构处理特殊案例，但像我们这样每天处理大量案件，确实需要一个专职的设施，而这个中心每年能为新墨西哥州节省数百万美元。

I think a lot of forensic imaging and I'd love to hear from your listeners if they're aware of happening elsewhere because I have heard a lot of people who do have experience, but I think sometimes they would just use a hospital center after hours or contract with a facility or something like that, maybe to get those imaging done for special cases, but to process a full caseload every day like we're doing, you do need that dedicated facility, but this facility saves millions of dollars for the state of New Mexico every year.

是的，我以前待过的地方就是这样，他们都是在下班后用设备。

Yeah, I've worked at a place before, that's what they did after hours.

他们把扫描仪放在地下室。

They had a scanner in the basement.

这都是很久以前的事了，那时候医院地下室都放着扫描仪，他们就是这么做的。

This is, you know, a long time ago when you had scanners in the basement of all the hospitals, but that's what they did.

他们等到下班后才进来操作。

They come in after hours.

一旦病人没那么多，门诊人少了，大家都不在了，他们就到地下室去做。

Once it kind of, the patient load wasn't there, you didn't have the outpatients and everybody in there and they would just do them down there.

算是个备用方案，就在那儿做了。

The more of a backup and do it there.

但我还想问你，你对未来有什么看法？

But I do want to ask you, what do you see as a future?

我们看到越来越多的AI技术涌入，尤其是在影像领域。

We see all this AI coming in to, especially imaging.

我记得参加过一个会议，会上说医疗影像领域有80%都在用AI。

I think I went to a conference and it said imaging in healthcare gets about 80% use of AI.

在所有医疗职业中，AI对我们的影响最大，既有好处也有挑战。

So out of all the health healthcare professions, we're affected in a good and bad way by AI 80%.

你觉得这种技术会渗透到法医影像领域吗？

Do you see that filtrating into forensic imaging in any way?

理论上是有可能的。

I mean, there's a possibility for it.

这东西现在无处不在，对吧？

I mean, it's everywhere, right?

就像你提到的，在医学影像中，我们已经用它做了很多不同的事情。

And especially like you mentioned in medical imaging, we use it in a lot of different ways.

所以那些能识别病变的图像处理算法，未来或许也能派上用场。

So the processing algorithms that detect pathology potentially could be used.

我们现在还没用这类工具，但你应该熟悉那些骨折检测和中风检测的软件吧？

We're not using anything like that right now, but I'm sure you're familiar with the fracture detection software and stroke detection, that kind of thing.

当然，我们没那么赶时间。

Of course, we're not as time bound.

我们不是在直接治疗病人。

We're not treating people.

这种中风检测之类的技术，在法医影像里可能没那么重要。

That stroke detection type of thing maybe isn't such a big deal in forensic imaging.

但病理检测确实能帮上病理科医生的忙，毕竟大多数时候，这些片子都不是由放射科医生来看的。

But certainly the pathology detection could aid pathologists because for the most part, we're not having radiologists read these scans.

虽然也有法医放射科医生，我们医院里确实有一位放射科医生负责读所有骨骼检查，但CT片子都是由病理科医生来解读的。

There are forensic radiologists and we do have a radiologist here, at the hospital who reads all of the skeletal surveys, but the CT scans are being read by the pathologists.

他们不会诊断每一个细节，但确实能发现病理变化、损伤模式这类问题。

So they're not diagnosing every single thing, but they are picking up on that pathology or injury patterns or things like that.

所以有这种辅助工具应该挺有帮助的，对吧？

So having that assistance could be benefit, right?

是的，确实能看到它的价值。

Yeah, can see it.

AI这块我非常感兴趣，不过我也想聊一聊，因为我知道有些听众一定在想：我该怎么了解法医影像呢？

AI, I'm very interested to see, but I want to talk too, because I know some of the listeners are saying, how do I learn about forensic imaging?

这本该成为教学体系的一部分。

Like this should be part of a curriculum.

你觉得这件事将来会有发展吗？

Do you see a future in that happening?

我觉得很多人都会对这个领域感兴趣。

I think it would be something that a lot of people are interested in learning about.

我觉得这真的很有帮助，因为我当时只接受了几天的在职培训，很多东西没学过根本无从下手。

I think it's really beneficial because I basically got a couple of days of on the job training and they're just things that you're not prepared for without having studied it.

我查了一下，确实有一些关于法医影像的继续教育课程。

And so I think there are, I Googled it, there are some continuing education type of activities available in forensic imaging.

我知道在新墨西哥州放射技术人员协会，我们请过牙科法医影像专家来做分享，特别有意思。

I know that in our New Mexico Society of Radiologic Technologists, we've had some dental forensic imaging specialists speak, which is really interesting.

我正在新墨西哥大学着手开发一个放射技术专业的本科项目，正努力安排学生进临床轮转，让他们亲身体验一下，看看自己是不是真想走这条路。

My program that I'm just in the process of developing here at University of New Mexico, we're doing a bachelor's degree in radiologic technology, and I'm working on getting students into clinical rotations hopefully so that they can get some exposure and really know if this is something they wanna pursue or not.

就算不留在这个领域，这段经历也能帮他们把技能用在别的职业方向上。

And then even, or take that experience somewhere and be able to use it in their career.

他们甚至可以用这些经验去推动所在州设立法医影像科室。

They can use it to advocate for maybe in their state, getting a forensic imaging department.

没错。

Exactly.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得这太棒了，正是优秀的项目负责人通过这样的举措推动了影像学科的发展。

I think that's fantastic that, and that's where great directors of programs advance our imaging programs.

他们看到教育中的空白，主动把它纳入课程体系。

By looking for things such as this, that you see there's a gap in the education and you want to add it to your program.

在我看来，这种前瞻性思维非常可贵，也很必要，因为现在太多事情都在变化。

To me, that is very forward thinking and something that is needed because so many things are changing.

信息技术在变，法医影像虽然发展是出于无奈，但确实在影像领域占有一席之地。

A is changing informatics, forensic imaging is growing unfortunately, but there's a place for it in imaging.

以前大家都没怎么注意到这一点。

And I think it wasn't recognized before.

谢谢谢丽尔，为你们学校的课程加入了这一部分内容。

So thank you Sheryl for looking at adding that to your school's curriculum.

这又是一项能让学生毕业时掌握的技能，还能用它来为我们的职业发声，让整个行业在各州变得更强大，对吧？

It's just another thing that you can offer students to come out of their education with and then to use it to advocate for our profession to make us even stronger within states, right?

没错，没错。

Right, right.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得让大家了解我们具体在做什么、了解这项工作能覆盖的方方面面，认识到它在生死攸关的许多领域有多么关键，这一点非常重要。

I think it's important that people know what we're doing and know the scope of everything that's possible and realize how vital this profession is in many different aspects of life and death.

而且我认为，每个州都应该设立一个法医影像实验室，不管规模大小，这都应该是标配。

And there is, I think it's important because every state, in my opinion, should have a, whether it's small or large, to have a forensic imaging lab.

既然每个州都有犯罪实验室，为什么不能在每个州的犯罪实验室旁边都附设一个法医影像实验室呢？

You know, you have a crime lab, why can't you have a forensic imaging lab attached to it in every state?

这样能为无数家庭提供答案，也能让正义更准确地落在该得到它的人身上。

It would give so many answers to so many deserving families and justice, hopefully in the right way to the right people.

如果你们以为CT能取代尸检，那可就误会了。

And CT isn't replacing autopsy if you guys are thinking that.

重新定义可能的边界。

Redefining what's possible.

影像技术的足迹不局限于医院大门，它会追随真相走向任何地方。

Imaging doesn't stop at the hospital door, it follows the truth wherever it leads.

谢丽尔，今天的对话非常精彩，接下来想请你做几句总结。

Sheryl, this has been a great conversation, but I want to have a few closing remarks by you.

如果你愿意的话，可以跟我们的听众分享一下，作为主任你一直在做些什么，你的项目具体是怎样的，让大家知道怎么联系你，也对法医影像有更深入的了解——如果你还没提到的话。

If you would like to share anything, educate our audience on what you've been doing as a director, more about your program so they know how to get in contact with you and know a little bit more about Forensic Imaging if you haven't shared anything that you would like to share.

现在是什么在推动着你？

What drives you now?

让我持续前进的动力，就是不断给自己添新的工具和技能。

What drives me now is continuously adding tools to my tool belt, my skillset.

我这个人容易感到无聊。

I am a person who gets bored and.

我也是，我也是。

Me too, me too.

是的

Yeah.

有时候我会觉得有点累，想着干脆只干一份工作算了。

Sometimes I start to get a little worn out and think I'm gonna cut down to one job.

我就只做一项工作。

I'm just gonna do one

我老公跟我说，别再接新活了。

Husband told me don't get any more jobs.

现在没人信他了。

Nobody believes him anymore.

一转眼我就想，对啊，要不试试这个？这事儿真有意思。

The next thing you know, I'm like, oh yeah, I'm gonna do Wait, this is really fun.

我想试试这个。

Like, I wanna try this.

我觉得，这正是培养韧性的关键。

So, and I think that's what builds resilience.