七国骑士 - 第一季第五集 - 以母亲之名 - 反馈

这些名字都挺像曼伍迪家族的。

Those are some very Manwoody ironwood.

要是我听过什么巫师的名字，那就是这些了。

Wizard names if I've ever heard one.

曼伍迪？

Manwoody?

你刚才没说曼伍迪。

You didn't say Manwoody.

我说了曼伍迪。

I said Manwoody.

当然说了，我确实说了。

Hell, yeah, I did.

这些名字全都听起来有点阴森吧？

These are all these are all can I say these are all kind of sinister sounding names?

你知道的？

You know?

比如，路西法、本尼迪克特，作为一个美国人，一听到本尼迪克特，我就会想到我们历史上最臭名昭著的交易员之一，然后还有曼伍迪。

Like, Lucifer, Benedict, and, like, as an American, I can't think of Benedict without, like, one of the most infamous traders in our history, and then you got Manwoody.

除此之外，我不记得有任何多恩人被派到那里，甚至连铁木家族——他们似乎是多恩版的波顿家族——也从未出现过，而波顿家族正是给主家族带来最多麻烦的家族。

Beyond that, I don't know of any Dorners sent up there, not even Ironwoods who seem to be Dorn's equivalent to the Boltons, and that they're kind of like the house that gives the main house the most trouble.

但他们也同样富有而强大，以至于主家族根本拿他们没办法。

But they're also wealthy and powerful enough that the main house can't really do anything about it.

我不禁怀疑，这是否与多恩长期面对外部敌人、团结一致对抗维斯特洛其余地区有关，直到‘好人’达林出现，他才是那个再次将多恩纳入七王国体系的人。

I do wonder if it's part of Dorne having an external enemy for so long united against the rest of Westeros up until Darin the Good, who's the one again, Dorne has recently been brought into the fold of the 7 Kingdoms.

即便如此，多恩仍像北境一样，仿佛是一个独立的领地，因此他们可能不需要长城。

Even after that, Dorne seems like a land apart similar to the North, so they may not need the wall as much.

我不知道有多少多恩的马贼甚至知道长城的存在。

I wonder how many Dornish horse thieves are even aware the wall is an option.

这是个好问题。

It's a good question.

我还得说，你可能不知道，当他在谈论雷妮亚拉时，他实际上指的是安达尔人和多恩人真正到来的时期。

And I will say that, like, you might not know this, but Rhaenyra when he's talking about Rhaenyra, he's talking about, like, the Andals, the Droynar actually coming over.

这件事发生在一千年前。

This happened, like, a thousand years ago.

明白吗？

Okay?

这可不是在伊耿征服之前或龙舞刚结束的时候。

This isn't like, oh, right before Aegon conquered or just after the Dance of Dragon.

这甚至早于英雄纪元，属于维斯特洛的远古时代。

This is in not quite the Age of Heroes period, but in Westerosi antiquity easily.

所以如果你得追溯到那么久远才能找到一个例子

So if you have to go that far back to find an example

是的。

Yeah.

没几个这样的例子。

Not many of them.

学士们甚至会对那些人发誓，用的真是《圣经》吗？

The maesters even swear in a bible to those people real?

总之，谢谢你的笔记，乔什。

Anyway, thanks for that note, Josh.

来自夏洛特的迈克说：我只是个剧迷，如果我问的问题会剧透的话，请提醒我。

Mike from Charlotte says, I'm a show watcher only, so stop me if asking something will spoil myself.

我注意到，这次比武大会上没有深色皮肤、浅色头发的瓦雷利亚人出席。

I'm noticing the lack of dark skin, light haired, parenthetical Valyrian attendees at the tournament.

这是疏忽，还是在《龙之家族》中会有解释？

Is this an oversight or something that might be explained in the house of the dragon?

不清楚。

Unclear.

不清楚，因为确实如此。

Unclear because yeah.

我的意思是，我觉得这次比武大会上并没有瓦雷利亚人，但是

Like, I don't think the Valyrians are here at this tournament, but

这确实不清楚。

it's it's unclear.

而且，是稍微有趣但不清楚，还是就是单纯不清楚？

And also Mildly interesting unclear or just unclear?

是稍微有趣但不清楚，因为我不敢肯定，这就是关键。

Mildly interesting unclear because I couldn't swear like, that's that's the thing.

就像我无法确定，因为我是以这种方式理解这些内容的，而且我并不会为此太困扰。

It's like I I can't because the way I the way I take this stuff, and I don't get too upset by it.

这所有的一切，你知道的，就是谁在乎呢？

It's it's all, you know, it's like who gives a shit?

第一点。

Number one.

比如，如果一个演员很有趣、很酷，而且能演好这个角色，那他就该演这个角色。

Like, if an actor is interesting and he's cool and they can play the part, they play the part.

但按照我对马丁世界中生物学和季节运作方式的理解，为什么生物学不能也不同呢？我觉得在这个类型中，人类就像犬种一样，每个后代并不一定完美融合父母双方的特征。

But the way I've the way I understand biology working in Martin's world and the seasons work different, so why not biology, is like that the the humans in that that that in this genre are like dog breeds and that, like, it it's not necessarily that each each each offspring will be a perfect mix of the two children.

比如，你让一只大麦町犬和一只大牧羊犬交配，一半的幼犬看起来完全像大牧羊犬，另一半则完全像大麦町犬。

Like, you could have a Dalmatian and a great shepherd, you know, have sex and, like, half the puppies look exactly like Great Shepherds and half of them look exactly like Dalmatians.

也可能有些是半半的，或者有不同的虎斑花纹。

And you could have some that are kinda half and half or they have different brindle patterns.

对吧？

Right?

我觉得这能解释很多这种现象，就像在……是的。

I I feel like that's the the explanation for a lot of this stuff is that, like, in in yeah.

有时候，比如我们通常所说的白人家庭，一个皮肤白的人可能会生出一个皮肤黑的孩子，反之亦然。

That the the the the every once in a while, like, a traditional like, what we would call a white family, a person who has white skin can have a black skinned child and vice versa.

这对我来说是唯一说得通的解释。

It's really the only thing that kinda makes sense to me.

但同时，我也说不准。

But also, yeah, I don't know.

如果他们在这部剧里选瓦雷利亚人，结果全是白人，那就太奇怪了。

Like, it'd be pretty weird if they cast Valyrians in this and they're all white.

是的。

Yeah.

那确实会。

That would be.

但这也可能是一种考验，或者表明巴利昂现在是高等瓦雷利亚人或高等坦格利安家族的一员，只是他看起来并不符合传统的坦格利安外貌。

But also it could be a test it could also be a testament of, you know, just a way that Baelor is is one of the high Valyrian or one of the high Targaryens right now, but he doesn't look traditionally Targaryen.

我知道确实有个著名的双胞胎案例。

You know, I've definitely seen there's like the the one famous case of the fraternal twins.

其中一个明显是黑人，而另一个则有着你所说的白皮肤和红发。

One is, like, readily identifiable as black, but the other's got, like, what you'd call white skin and reddish hair.

他们是从同一个母亲肚子里出生的，基因这东西，真的会发生一些奇怪的事。

It's like they came out of the same woman from the same genetic, like weird shit happens genetically.

但我觉得，如果让瓦雷利亚人继承龙家族，那就太奇怪了。

But it would be I would say it'd be weird for them to have Valyrians pass the house of dragon.

他们根本就不是黑人。

They're just not black.

牙齿医生。

Doctor teeth.

在你看来，为什么他们不用比武长矛而用战争长矛进行冲锋？

Why didn't they use tourney lances versus war lances in a charge in your opinion?

我觉得这在书中是贝里奥的一个精彩角色时刻，然后邓克也用了这一点，好吧。

I think it was a cool character moment for Baelor in the book and then Dunk uses it and okay.

所以他指的是我在播客里提到过的一件事，就是书中特别强调了贝里奥说：不。

So he's referring to something I mentioned on the on the podcast, which is in the book, they make a big deal out of Baelor being like, no.

他们要用比武长矛。

They're gonna use tourney.

他们要用战争长矛，那种更短、由橡木制成、顶端镶铁、致命的长矛。

They're gonna use war lances, which are shorter and they're made of oak and are tipped with iron and they're lethal.

而我们要用比武长矛。

And we're gonna use tourney lances.

你会想：你们为什么要用比武长矛？

And you're gonna be like, why the fuck are you using tourney lances?

因为它们的设计就是容易折断，所以没那么致命。

Because they're designed to break and they're not as then they're not as lethal.

他说，但他们有四英尺的长度优势。

He's like, but they've got four feet of reach.

所以我们的策略是尽可能久地骑在马上，利用我们更长的攻击距离和更高的技巧，把敌人一个个击落。

So our whole thing is we're gonna stay on our horses as long as we can and use our superior reach and and hopefully skill to knock people off and pick them off one at a time.

他们没有那样做，因为老实说，这个策略在书里根本行不通。

They didn't do that because, honestly, that strategy doesn't really work out in the book.

它并不像骑士团那样，我觉得大家都知道那些是厉害的骑士。

It doesn't really, you know, whereas the Kingsguard is I think that's like people, like, know that those are badass knights.

而他想出的应对方法，确实挺巧妙的。

And and his idea to neutralize those, thought, was pretty handy.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我不确定为什么，因为我跟萨德说过，我觉得这是个很精彩的细节，能额外展现巴利尔作为一位真正骑士的战术智慧，但他们没这么做。

I'm I'm not sure why because I said to Sad, I think it was a cool detail, and it would add a little extra, like, strategic or tactical brilliance to the Baelor show that he is a a warrior, a true knight of the realm, but they didn't they didn't do it.

所以，而且他们还得解释很多东西。

So I and also, they would have to explain a lot of things.

到了书中的这个阶段，你已经知道什么是比武长矛和战矛了。

By that point in the book, you already know what a tournament lance is and a war lance.

哦，好吧。

And Oh, okay.

你已经经历过了，就像，如果你直接说巴利尔要用战矛或者转向矛，因为你得解释那到底是什么意思。

You've gone through it's like, you'd have to because, like, you know, if you just said if Baelor's like, we're gonna use war lances and or turning lances because they're gonna use war lances, you'd have explain what the hell that meant.

你真的想在比武前一刻才搞清楚这些吗？

And is that where you wanna be right before the joust?

我不知道。

I don't know.

他说，阿伦踢翻对手、喂猪的那一幕太震撼了。

He says, sir, Arlen kicking ass and feeding pig scene was epic, though.

我喜欢这个情节如何深化了角色塑造，因为这应该发生在他侄子去世后不久。

I love how that furthers character as this would have taken place right after the death of his nephew.

我喜欢他们通过动作场景而非旁白来展现背景故事的方式。

I love how they're feeling at the backstory with action beats rather than exposition.

完全同意。

Totally agree.

不过，我觉得

Then though, I felt like

剧集里我并没有了解到太多这方面的细节。

I didn't get any I didn't get much detail on that from the show.

你跟我讲了战斗的种种细节，但我认为剧集本身并没有太多交代这些内容。

I got detail on that from you with the the battle and all that stuff, but I don't think the show did much to tell us any of that.

剧集展示给我们而非直接告诉我们的信息是，阿伦爵士能醉醺醺地用剑干掉两个金袍子。

So what the show's shown us rather than told us is that, you know, sir Arlen can take out two gold cloaks, piss drunk with his sword.

是的。

Yeah.

他懂多斯拉克语，这意味着他很可能曾在厄索斯加入过一支佣兵团。

That that that he knows Dothraki, which means he probably rode in a sellsword company over in Essos.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

我并不是在质疑他的强悍实力。

I'm not I'm not questioning his badass credentials.

我觉得剧集在这方面做得还不错。

I think the show's done a decent job of that.

他侄子之类的那些内容，其实并没有太多明确的交代。

The stuff of his nephew or whatever is, like, not super textual.

对吧？

Right?

它就是很像是

It's it's very, like

那么，我们所知道的是，他当时喝得酩酊大醉。

Well so what we know is that he was super drunk.

他正在阻止卫兵伤害那个孩子，也就是母亲的名字。

He's preventing guards from hurting this kid, the name of the mother.

然后那天晚上，当敦克跟着他去营地时，你看到一个土堆，上面放着一顶小男孩的头盔，头盔上有个凹痕。

And then when Dunk follows him out to his camp that night, you see a a mound with a small with a boy's helmet with a dent in its head on it.

我当时就想，是的。

I was like, yeah.

你可能不知道那是他的，我的意思是，你不会怀疑那是他的侍从吗？

You might not know that that was his I mean, wouldn't you suspect that's a squire?

有可能。

Potentially.

对。

Yeah.

我的意思是，即使你注意到了，这才是关键。

I mean, if if you even notice it, like, that's the thing.

这并不是很明显。

It's not it's not very overt.

而且我获得的所有这些背景信息，主要都是从你这里听来的，而不是从剧集里得来的。

And and that I'm getting all this context mostly from you, not from the show.

因为邓克去了坟墓那里。

Because, like, Dunk goes to the grave.

他把那东西取了下来。

He takes the thing off.

他把它戴在头上，

It puts he puts it on his head,

然后它

and it

正好适合他，说明邓克是个大个子孩子。

fits him to show that it's a you know, mean, Dunk's a big kid.

嗯。

But Mhmm.

所以，不管怎样，我觉得他们是在这么做，而且会继续在故事中层层铺垫。

So, anyway, I I I think they're I think they're doing it, and they're gonna keep layering that in the story.

因为爱尔兰的故事已经是他们从原著中大幅润色过的了。

Because the thing is the story of Ireland is they've already embellished it so much from the books.

你知道的吧？

You know?

就像，只是些粗糙的东西，他们把侍从之死拉得离他更近了。

Like, just just just just rocky stuff, the way they brought the death of a squire much closer to him.

收养邓克当侍从，我觉得是有好处的。

Adopting Dunk as a squire, I think, was was beneficial.

我不确定要不要让他把长矛亮出来，也不确定我们是否需要看到整整九英尺长的橡木矛，顶端还镶着铁。

I don't know about, you know, having his war lance out, and I don't know if we need we needed to to see all nine feet of his oak and rod tipped with iron.

依我看，那更像是律师的长矛。

That's more of attorney Lance, if you ask me.

他说，最终，阿伦基本上成了《洛奇》系列里的米奇幽灵，这完全契合这部剧的基调。

He said and finally, he ends up Arlen basically becoming Mickey's ghost from the Rocky series is perfect for the tone of this show.

起来吧，邓克。

Get up, dunk.

起来吧，因为阿伦爱你。

Get up because Arlen loves you.

是的

Yeah.

我简直看不够阿伦爵士。

I I I can't get enough of sir Arlen.

我们马上回来，继续为您带来《七王国骑士》的更多内容。

We'll be right back with more on Knight of the Seven Kingdoms.

前往 support.ballmooth.com 获取本播客的无广告版本。

Go to support.ballmooth.com to get an ad free version of this podcast.

我们回来了，继续《七王国骑士》。

And we're back with the night of the seven kingdoms.

来自特拉华王国的吉妮女士说，我是长期听众。

Lady Ginny of the realm of Delaware says longtime listener here.

很高兴听到你的声音。

Love to hear it.

和大多数粉丝一样，《权力的游戏》第八季结束后，我感觉自己经历了一次糟糕的分手。

Like most fans, I felt like I had been through a bad breakup after Game of Thrones season eight.

我喜欢《龙之家族》，也没什么重大不满，但看完《七王国的骑士》之后，我对《权力的游戏》宇宙的热爱又被重新点燃了。

I liked Hot D and don't have major complaints, but after watching a a knight of the seven kingdoms, my love for the Game of Thrones universe has been rekindled.

我现在觉得《龙之家族》只是我的一段过渡关系，相比两个月前，我对今年晚些时候再回去看它没那么兴奋了。

I now feel like Hot D was my rebound relationship, and I'm not as excited about returning to it later in the year than I was two months ago.

哦，不，雷妮拉。

Oh, no, Rhaenyra.

不是你的问题。

It's not you.

是我自己的问题。

It's me.

我太早从丹妮莉丝身上走出来了，以为另一位金发女王也能填补这个空缺。

I'm I moved on too quick from Daenerys, and I thought another blonde queen could.

而我现在这样冷落她们，纯粹是在惹黑党不高兴，你知道的。

And then this is me leaving them out is just pissing off team black, you know.

我意识到，我只是真的很怀念那些让我愿意支持的讨喜角色。

I realized I just really miss seeing likable characters that I could root for.

阅读了其他人对《七王国的骑士》的反馈后，我觉得我不孤单。

Reading through others feedback of a knight of seven kingdoms, I don't think I'm alone.

我的问题是：

My question is this.

你认为《七王国的骑士》的流行会对《龙之家族》产生负面影响吗？

Do you think the popularity of a knight of the seven kingdoms will have a negative impact on Hot Dee?

《龙之家族》会变成《权力的游戏》宇宙里的‘红发继子’吗？

Will Hot Dee turn into the redheaded stepchild of the Game of Thrones universe?

哦，不会的。

Oh, no.

我认为，如果有什么影响的话，那也是正面的。

I think it would have a positive impact, if anything.

我认为，会有更多人愿意给《龙之家族》第三季、第四季、第五季，不管哪一季，更多机会。

I think more people are probably gonna give hot d season, three, four, five, whatever, more of a chance.

因为，就像你说的，你的热情已经被重新点燃了。

Because, like you said, your your love has been rekindled.

我觉得这只会带来好处。

I think it'll do nothing but good things.

但我同意你的看法。

But I agree with you.

比如，看你《权力的游戏》时最沉重的一点就是，剧中没有一个讨人喜欢的角色。

Like, one of the heaviest things weighing on you watching Hot D is just there's nobody likable in that show.

而任何原本讨人喜欢的角色都已经死了。

And anybody likable already is dead.

比如，即使剧中那些你本能会喜欢的英雄，也依然充满矛盾，做出坏事。

Like, even the heroes in that show, the people you're inclined to like, still are so conflicted and do bad things.

是的，

It's yeah,

我想知道这是否很难

I wonder if it's hard

去喜欢任何人。

to like anybody.

是的，我很喜欢这个，而且我已经谈了很多。

Yeah, I love what and I've I've talked a lot.

你知道，我们每季都会做这本书和剧集的对比。

You know, we've done the book show comparisons each season.

我喜欢康奈尔所做的事。

And I I like what Connell's done.

但我确实好奇，他会不会也怀疑自己，当他一路推进时，比如《火与血》中一个很酷的地方在于，总会有大主教这么说，牧师那么说，但蘑菇和纳福却有不同说法。

But I do wonder if even he second guesses, okay, when he's going through and, you know, one of the things that's cool about Fire and Blood is you've got, like, the Maester says this and the Septus says this, but then Mushroom Nafool says this.

然后，你瞧，引用各种不同来源，就像是一部真实的历史。

And then, you know, quoting from all different sources like it's a real history.

看起来他们采用了每个故事中最愤世嫉俗、最八卦、最耸人听闻的版本。

It seems like they've taken the most cynical and and salacious and scandalous version of every story.

因为有些故事一开始被描述为：这个人其实很正直，他确实做了这些好事，但蘑菇却说他根本不是这样。

Because some of them are, like, presented as, like, well, this guy's actually noble and he did do all this, but then Mushroom says he did all this great.

我想，也许一两次他本该换个角度，说：不，这个人其实很正派，他很高尚，大家都爱他，而那些大主教们之所以编造关于他的丑闻，可能是因为某种原因。

Like, I wonder if like maybe once or twice he should have zigged and been like, no, this actually, this guy was upright and he was noble and people loved him and and maybe the the the the maesters made shit up about him because of whatever reason.

但或者这是一次政治上的恶意攻击。

But or there was a hatchet job politically.

但通过把每个人物都塑造成书中所展现的最卑劣、最不堪的版本，你只是创造了一大堆令人反感的角色。

But it like, by taking everybody to be kind of the most venal, you know, obscene version of what the book shows as like the different possibilities of their character, you just come up with a whole bunch of unlikable characters.

我很好奇，随着我们目前这个不断发展的巡回演出，有了国王伊耿和那个脚脚脚大师。

I I wonder with a burgeoning traveling roadshow we've got with King Aegon and the foot foot foot master.

我在想，他是否在试图纠正方向，或者是否会引入另一个角色，那种真正古怪或者不古怪但讨人喜欢的角色。

I wonder if he's trying to course correct or if there'll be another character that they introduce that is, like, really kind of zany and or not zany, but, like, likable likable.

嗯。

Mhmm.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为到了某个时候，你会希望有人能赢得这场战争。

Because at some point, you're gonna want people to want someone to win this war.

当然。

And Sure.

你知道的。

You know?

而且希望以一种能激发你其他项目兴趣的方式。

And hopefully, in a way that spurs interest into your other projects.

你知道的。

You know?

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

有偏好，但没有一个

Have preferences, but none of them

只是，

are just,

很明显。

like, obvious.

你知道吗？

You know?

就像，我稍微更喜欢这个人，因为我觉得他们更有理由获得支持之类的。

It's like, this person I like a little bit more because I think they have more of a case for it or whatever.

但没有人是纯粹的好人，让你毫无保留地支持他们。

But nobody's just, like, pure good, and you can root for them un qualified.

是的。

Yeah.

我在想，有没有这种情况，比如如果《权力的游戏》得到了我所担心的那种结果，或者任何不如预期的东西，那会是个问题。

I'm I'm trying to think of like, is it ever like, the only thing that I guess would be a problem if if HotD got what I what would be like bad or like anything less than good.

是的。

Yeah.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而且我觉得，有时候当你有一个迎合大众的场景，比如新一季以一场大规模战斗开场，你把它推到极致时，可能会有点风险。

And I think sometimes, like, when you have a crowd pleaser, like, this big battle that they're gonna open up with the new season and you push it to, like, you might be vulnerable to bit.

但问题是，如果他们搞砸了，我们可能会回到原来的状态，你知道的，每年都能看到《权力的游戏》，而《龙之家族》隔年才回来一次。

But it's like if if they crush that, we might be back to where, you know, everybody's super excited because we're getting Game of Thrones every year and Hot D's coming back every other year.

而且，你知道，我们有这么一部相对轻松一点的作品，可以让我们为角色们加油。

And, you know, we got the one thing that's kinda light and we can cheer for people.

我们还有另一部更黑暗的作品，你知道的，唯有神的恩典，我们才敢前行或不敢前行。

We got the one that's like more of a dark heart of, you know, only for the grace of the gods, dare we not go or not go I.

是的。

Yeah.

我会说，《龙之家族》感觉非常真实。

Will say that House of the Dragon feels very realistic.

对。

Yes.

而这可能是它的问题之一。

And that's maybe part of its problem.

我们可能正处在一个不适合《龙之家族》作为娱乐作品的时代。

We might be in a time period that does not suit House of the Dragon as being a form of entertainment.

我们可能正处在一个需要七国骑士的时代，这是我们所需、所感、所有人共同的感受。

We might actually be in the time period where a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms is what we need, what we feel, what we're all feeling.

我们需要它。

We need it.

是的。

Yeah.

如果说《权力的游戏》像是《白宫风云》，只是最后两三季一路下滑，那《龙之家族》可能就像《纸牌屋》，就是那种感觉。

Like, if Game of Thrones was, I guess, the the the West Wing with maybe it going really downhill in the last season or two, maybe House of the Dragon is House of Cards, where it's like Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

无论站在哪一边，这部剧里都没有好人。

No matter what side, there's nobody good on that show.

他们都是糟糕的人。

They're all terrible people.

是的。

Yeah.

你可能会认同他们试图做的事情。

You might agree with what they're trying to do.

你可能会更欣赏某个人的手段，而不是其他人。

You might admire someone's means more than others.

但归根结底，没有一个人会让你觉得：没错，我愿意投票支持这样的人。

But at the end of the day, there's not a person that you'd be like, yes, that's the that's a person I'd be feel good about casting a vote for.

这没关系。

And that's fine.

你知道，但这完全是另一回事。

It's, you know, but it's it's a different thing.

明白吗？

You know?

你得明白，这才是关键。

You gotta it's a but that's the thing.

像《龙之家族》这样的剧集，要么吸引人，要么不吸引人。

Things like House of Dragon invite or not House of Dragon.

《权力的游戏》邀请你深入表层，去理解那些有权势的坏人为什么要做这些事。

House of Cards invited you to, like, get beneath the layers and and, like, you know, try to sympathize and understand why the powerful bad people are doing these things.

我不确定《龙之家族》是否也有足够的相似性来实现同样的效果，毕竟他们有龙、角色更超凡脱俗，还有剑，你知道的，在这种奇幻设定下，你能做的其实很有限。

And I don't I don't know if there's enough for similitude there for House of Dragon to to pull the same thing off because they got dragons and they're larger than life and they got swords and, you know, you you can't really there's only so much you can do with that fantasy setting.

是的，也许吧。

Yeah, maybe.

这便是我们非剧透反馈的全部内容了。

That's gonna do it for a non spoiler feedback.

当然，我们会请学士安东尼来讨论一些剧透内容，还会让吉姆·哈里斯国王从王室密室里出来参与。

Of course, we are gonna bring on maester Anthony to cover some spoilery type things, and we're gonna let, king Jim Harris out of the royal chambers for that.

如果你希望为我们下周的总结节目提供更多反馈，请发送邮件至 7kingdoms@BaldMove.com。

If you'd like to send us more feedback, for the the wrap up show that we'll be doing next week, please send it to 7kingdoms@BaldMove.com.

如果你想成为俱乐部会员，请访问 support.baldmove.com，立即获取我们的最终讨论节目的访问权限。

If you'd like to become a club member, support dot Bald Move dot com and get instant access to our finale, the the discussion show.

我们将在剧集播出后十到十五分钟直接直播。

We're just gonna go live ten, fifteen minutes after the episode airs.

我们会让所有俱乐部成员在聊天室里，让他们分享观点并提问。

We're gonna have all of our club members in chat, and they're gonna be talking their opinion and asking questions.

我们会尽力促进这场对话。

And we'll be trying to do our best to to facilitate that conversation.

上周玩得真的很开心。

It was really good time last week.

我相信本周也会很精彩。

I'm sure it's gonna a good time this week.

support.baldmove.com。

Support.baldmove.com.

这是你最后一次警告，错过这次就再也听不到任何关于《权力的游戏》或《冰与火之歌》未来项目的剧透线索了。

This is your last warning to get out without hearing any hints of spoilers for future Game of Thrones, A Song of Ice and Fire projects.

现在是时候请出学士安东尼了。

And now it's time to bring on Maester Anthony.

说到学士安东尼，这就是学士安东尼。

Speaking of Maester Anthony, here's Maester Anthony.

嘿。

Hey.

最近怎么样？

How's it going?

非常好。

Doing very well.

情况正在好转。

Men on the mend.

有点闷热，但我在好好看节目，今天能和你们聊天我很开心。

It's a little stuffy, but enjoying the show, and I'm I'm happy to talk with you today.

我经历了一点他们所说的‘修士的寒冬病’，圣诞节后生病了，但奇迹般地在土拨鼠日之前完全康复了。

I I was experienced a little bit of what they call the macer's call late winter sickness where I got sick after Christmas and essentially recovered just before Groundhog Day, miraculously.

我看到了自己的影子。

I saw my own shadow.

嘿。

Hey.

恭喜。

Congrats.

我看到了自己的影子。

I saw my own shadow.

我

I

正想恭喜你成功举办了

was just gonna say congrats on a successful

谢谢。

Thank you.

募捐活动。

Fundraising event.

我一结束和你的谈话，就要联系凯琳·柯拉尔基金会，让她接受我们的全部捐款，并谈谈阿尔茨海默病研究的最新进展。

As soon as I'm done talking to you, I'm talking to Lainie from the Curals Foundation to, for her to accept our our our total donation and talk about the latest advances in Alzheimer's research.

但尽管这个话题如此严谨和学术，这并不是我特意找你聊的主要目的。

But as studious and scholarly as that subject is, it's not what I brought the mace around to talk about.

我们收到了一些剧透邮件。

We had some spoiler email.

而且，我只是想和他聊聊，你知道的，或者和读过原著的人聊聊，这才是关键。

Plus, I just wanna talk to him, you know, or with someone who's read the books and not just that's the thing.

就像你说的，我一直想表达的是，读《七王国骑士》最大的乐趣之一，就是完全理解那种《阿甘正传》式的叙事——邓克只是不经意地走过，触及那些传奇和重大事件的边缘，但他从未真正置身于核心。

It's like, you know, something I've been trying to describe is how much of the core pleasure of reading the Knights of the Seven Kingdoms is to fully understand the kind of Forrest Gumpur y that's going on where, you know, Dunk is just walking in and touching on tangent you know, touching on things that are legendary and on on big things, but he's never directly kind of in the at the core of it.

是的。

Yeah.

他并不理解自己所看到的一切。

And he doesn't understand what he's seen.

对。

Yeah.

所以，即使吉姆读完了《御林铁卫》全系列，却没有读过《血与火》《冰与火之歌》的背景，他也无法理解发生在邓克身上的那些精彩、有趣又讽刺的细节。

So it's like even like if Jim would read the entire series of the hedge knight without the fire and blood, without the world of ice and sire, without the entire song of ice and fire background, he don't understand all of the the cool things and funny things and ironic things that are happening to Dunk.

我一直想说的是，我们有这样一个红草场的场景，但我开始觉得我好像孤军奋战，可能说得太多了。

So one of the things I have been on about and I'm starting to feel like I'm just on an island and I might have overextended is that we have this red grass field scene.

你知道吧？

You know?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得有意思的是，有个士兵 apparently 是海塔尔家族的人。

And I thought it was interesting that there is a soldier who apparently is a Hightower.

有些人说是佛雷，但我还是坚持是海塔尔。

Some people said Frey, but I'm sticking with Hightower.

他穿着一件绿色背心，上面绣着一座巨大的塔。

He's wearing a green vest with a single single big tower on it.

好的。

Okay.

我本来以为是别的，不过我们就当它是海塔尔吧。

I thought it was a but I I'll let's go with high tower.

你之所以这么认为，是因为我和我看到的——所有对这个场景有详细讨论的人，也都说他是海塔尔。

You go with because, like, I I and I saw a I the only people that have talked about this scene in any kind of detail have also described him as a high tower.

所以如果是佛雷家，那确实更有道理，因为河间地在这场战役中的参与度远高于西境。

So if it's Frey, that that actually makes a hell of a lot more sense because the Riverlands were a lot more involved in that battle than the Yeah.

高于西境或者

Than the Western Lands or

是的。

Yeah.

我以为他的家徽是那两座双塔。

I thought his sigil was the the two the twin towers there.

嗯。

Mhmm.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是双塔吗？

Is it Twin Towers?

总之。

Anyway.

我以为他的家徽是双塔。

I thought it was a twin twin twin tower sigil.

我也是这么想的。

That's what I thought.

所以，也许是因为兰尼斯特家族根本没怎么参与那场战斗，他们根本没被列入参战方。

So and and so maybe it's the the but the Lannisters are never they were not a big they're not really listed as part of that battle anyway.

还有那个斯托克沃斯骑士，你知道的，就是那个在那儿的人。

And also that the the Stokesworth knight, you know, whoever was in that.

但我一直在想，他们让海塔尔家族的佛雷在兰尼斯特旗帜下死去，是不是想暗示什么，呃，呃，呃？

But but I was wondering is, like, are they trying to, like, with the with this Hightower Frey dying underneath the Lannister banner, are they trying saying, muh, muh, muh?

他们是不是真的在暗示某个有趣的彩蛋？

Are they actually trying to to hint to some cool Easter egg?

你知道的，某种强行加入的贡普里元素？还是说，这只是随便一提？

You know, some forced Gumpry Or is this just, hey, you know what?

我们还没怎么看到兰尼斯特家族的人。

We haven't seen a lot of Lannisters.

我想到里面出现了兰尼斯特家族。

I thought of Lannisters in there.

这会不会只是因为他喊妈妈，从而强化了‘以母亲之名’这个主题？

Is it just like ma ma he was calling for his mother because that reinforces the theme of in the name of the mother.

是的。

Yeah.

这个周末我花了很多时间试图发展这个理论，因为我心想：嘿，我可以做一些原创的锡纸帽瓦雷利亚钢研究。

I spent a lot of time this weekend trying to develop this theory because I'm like, oh, I could do some original tinfoil Valerian steel research.

但我什么都没找到。

And I just got I got nada.

什么线索都没有。

Nothing's coming up.

你对这个有什么想法吗？

You you you got anything for this?

直到你提到这个，我才开始留意，然后我也稍微有点锡纸帽了。

So I didn't really make much of this until your text and then I kind of went I I went a little bit tinfoil.

所以这里有一个，这就是为什么

So here's an here is one That's why

这就是为什么你听到的是可能的

that's why you're hearing from possible

一种可能的解释。

one possible interpretation.

我先问你一个问题。

Let me ask you a question first.

我们能相当确定这就是红草原吗？

Are we pretty certain that this is the Red Grass Field?

我们并不确定，但就像它就在视野范围内。

We're we're not certain, but like it is within sight.

我的意思是，有一件事是我们从来不知道红草原是在哪里打的。

I mean, that's one thing is we never knew where the Red Grass Field was fought.

这就是问题所在。

That's that's the problem.

但这也是叛军最后一次推进，局势变得越来越绝望。

But it was also the last advance of the the the rebel army and things were getting desperate.

据说他们正在逼近君临城。

It was said to be approaching King's Landing.

这就在君临城内部。

This is inside of King's Landing.

关键的是，他们把时间线搞错了，但阿兰德爵士在他的营地里有一个新埋的坟堆，上面放着鲜花，还有一顶青少年尺寸的头盔放在墓上。

And the kicker is they've they've they've screwed at the timeline, but sir Arland at his camp has a mound of a fresh burial with flowers on it and a youth sized helmet on the grave.

我们唯一知道的是，阿兰德爵士在红草场战役中失去了他的侄子，那孩子当时是他的侍从。

And the one thing we know about sir Arlen is that he lost his nephew that was a squire in the battle of the red green greenfield.

所有人都说这就是那场战役。

Everyone's saying this is the battle.

他们还说，战场规模有多大。

And they also said, like, how huge that battleground is.

据说那里有上万人阵亡，而那个铁匠说，我们将会多年持续从那座坟墓中掠夺战利品。

There's, like, 10,000 men died there, and that blacksmith is saying we'll be pillaging that that grave for years to come.

我认为，是的，所有迹象都表明你应该理解为红草场之战。

I think, yes, all signs are you supposed to understand that as the battle of the red.

好的。

Okay.

我们就把这个当作肯定吧。

Let's let's just go with an an affirmative on that.

好吧。

Alright.

所以这就是红草场。

So this is the Red Grass Field.

是的。

Yes.

关于这场战役的一个传言是，血鸦使用了魔法来赢得这场战斗。

One of the rumors about that battle is that Bloodraven used magic to win that battle.

如果这位骑士仍然被他所见的景象震惊，正想说‘魔……魔法’呢？

What if the knight is meaning still shocked by what he saw, is trying to say ma ma magic.

啊。

Ah.

然后邓克将其理解为母亲，而在剧集中，你几乎可以看到‘母亲’作为生物母亲和作为神的母亲这两种概念的重叠。

And then Dunk interprets it as mother, and you almost have in the episode, sort of overlapping spheres of mother as biological mother and mother as god.

所以魔法正是介于两者之间的那个位置。

So magic is sort of the place in between that.

这是一个建立在非常薄弱证据上的理论，但那就是

There that is a theory built on very weak evidence, but that's the

唯一的东西

only thing

我得到的，伙计。

I got, man.

关键就在于，我对魔法的理解，除了森林之子和其他人所拥有的寒冷魔法之外，正随着龙的死亡而逐渐消退，你知道的。

That's the thing is like, my understanding of the the the magic except for the the cold magic of the the children of the forest and the others are kind of waning, you know, with the death of the dragons.

我们知道炼金术士们曾经拥有他们的力量。

We know the pyromancers had their power.

普里耶的巫师们说，他们的力量已经减弱，当龙归来时，这种力量会得到极大增强。

The warlocks of Prie have said that their power has reduced, and it gets supercharged when the dragons come back.

我我我可能确实有道理，这家伙看到了一些超自然的事情，这是真的。

I I I it might be that that actually makes a certain amount of sense that this guy's, like, saw something uncanny happen and it's Yeah.

在他的时代，这种事闻所未闻，他试图发出警报、警告或表达惊叹。

You know, in his generation unheard of and he's trying to sound the alarm or the warning or express amazement.

好吧。

Okay.

听起来挺阴谋论的，但确实帮了我大忙。

Pretty tinfoil y, but it's it's bailing my ass out.

这确实挺阴谋论的。

It is very tinfoil y.

我认为重点在于，最重要的是邓克是如何理解它的。

I think the intention is I mean, the the most important thing is how Dunk interprets it.

对吧？

Right?

所以他理解了这一点。

So he interprets this.

他在找妈妈，这与另外五个关于母性主题的细微线索相吻合。

He's asking for his mother, and that fits with, like, the five other little hints toward motherhood as a theme.

所以邓克正走开，但当然，我们知道邓克并不擅长解读自己的经历。

So Dunk is walking away, but, of course, we know Dunk is not the best person at interpreting his own experience.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因此，这很可能是一个小小的线索，表明这个世界比邓克所经历的要复杂得多。

So it very well could be that this is a little clue that this world is much more complicated complicated than the world Dunk is experiencing.

所以他可能并不清楚那个人的真实意图。

And so he maybe he doesn't know exactly what the person's intentions were.

你觉得怎么样？因为我还推测，斯托克沃斯那个人——也就是斯托克沃斯家族的尸体被复活——可能象征着斯托克沃斯家族的最终命运，我们知道布劳恩曾潜入其中，并做了几件弑母的举动。

What did you think of because I also speculated that the Stokeworth person being, you know, the corpse of the Stokes Stokesworth being brought back, might have represented the ultimate fate of the house Stokesworth, which we know, Braun kind of got in there and he did a did a couple of matricidal actions.

嗯。

Uh-huh.

他现在基本上是斯托克沃斯的领主了。

And he is essentially the lord of Stokesworth now.

这是不是我想可能是这样。

Is this I thought maybe it's that.

尤其是斯托克沃斯家族是羊，你知道的，他们真的是羊。

And especially since the Stokesworth are sheep, you know, like they're literally sheep.

他们是名副其实的待宰羔羊。

They're literally sheep for the slaughter.

是的。

Yeah.

而且我觉得这还与我们稍后会看到的多斯拉克主题有关。

And also, I think that that it also connects with the Dothraki theme that we find a little bit later.

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

比如，这可能是在提醒我们，这个世界就像强者与弱者的关系一样，就像多斯拉克人会把羊人变成奴隶，而他们却无能为力。

Like, maybe it's it's mentioning it's maybe it's a recalling to us that the world is kind of like the powerful and the powerless in the same way that the the Dothraki would just like make the lamb men their slaves, and there's really nothing they could do about it.

我认为这正是幽灵试图向邓克传达的其中一个信息。

I think that that is kind of one of the things that Wraith is trying to communicate to Dunk.

这就是我们所生活的世界。

It's like, this is the world we're living in.

人们会因为受伤害而记恨，而且永远不会忘记。

People get butthurt, and they don't forget.

如果你比别人更强大，那这就是你命中注定的命运。

And if you're more powerful than the other person, then that's just going to be your lot in life.

是的。

Yeah.

而邓克始终想当个孩子。

And Dunk perpetually wants to be a boy.

对吧？

Right?

他紧紧抓住一个他认为可能已经去世的母亲不放。

He he he's clinging to a mother who he thinks is probably dead.

他不想长大，而拉夫却希望他能长大，看清这个世界的真实面貌。

He does not wanna grow up, and Rafe really wants him to grow up and and see the world as it is.

对吧？

Right?

她很聪明，因为我们都清楚，这些黑火叛乱会一直影响着坦格利安家族，几乎贯穿他们整个统治时期。

And she's smart because, like, we know that these Blackfyre rebellions are going to echo through the Targaryens, essentially, kinda stalk them the rest of their reign.

那你觉得

And What do you

你怎么看待史铎克渥斯家族的徽章是倒置的？

make of the fact that the Stokeworth sigil is reversed?

我知道。

I have.

好吧。

Alright.

所以呢，我要说一下

So Because I I I will say that

是一只羔羊抱着一个绿色的圣杯，是的。

that it's a lamb holding a green chalice Yeah.

或者绿色的酒杯。

Or green goblet.

嗯嗯。

Uh-huh.

而在这个徽章中，是一个绿色的酒杯托着一只羔羊。

And in this sigil, it's a green goblet holding a lamb.

所以我看了下，看起来斯托克家族的徽章在不同系列中变化最大，因为在《权力的游戏》、《龙之家族》以及一些书籍中，我们曾短暂地看到过它。

I so I I looked and it looks like there's been a maybe the the Stokes' residuals ones that's changed the most over the different series because we've seen it depicted briefly in the Game of Thrones and House of Dragon and and some books.

而且它的呈现方式多种多样。

And there's quite a wide variety of way it's displayed.

但我想，这只会进一步印证这个家族正被某种外部力量所吞没的观点。

But they I mean, I guess that would just reinforce the idea that the house is being subsumed by, you know, a force outside itself.

比如，那只抱着杯子的羔羊，对杯子拥有主导权。

Like the the lamb holding the cup has got agency over the cup.

羔羊在杯子里，杯子是容纳羔羊的那个。

The lamb inside the cup, the cup is the one that's containing the lamb.

所以

So

这真的让人感觉，如果你想要引入基督的意象，它确实很像那种血腥的牺牲。

It really does feel like, I mean, if you if you wanted to bring in Christ imagery, it really does make sort of the bloody sacrifice Yeah.

田野中的血，你知道，带出基督之血是救赎之类的观念。

Of the fields, you know, bring out the the notion that that the blood of Christ is is the atonement or whatever.

但我认为另一种看待方式是，这部剧喜欢颠覆传统。

But I think the other way to look at this is, like, the show kind of likes to subvert.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这部剧热衷于颠覆《权力的游戏》。

Like, this show loves to subvert Game of Thrones.

没错。

True.

在这一集里，感觉可能是最像《权力的游戏》的一集

In in an episode that feels probably the most Game of Thrones y

嗯。

Mhmm.

这就像对观众的一个小暗示：我们知道，这是一只羔羊拿着圣杯。

The this is a little wink to the reader like, we know we know it's a it's a a lamb holding a chalice.

我们是在颠覆这一点。

We're subverting that.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以我不知道这是否是本意，但这是一个选择。

So I don't know whether what the intention is, but it's a it's a choice.

对吧？

Right?

这是该剧有意违背原著设定的一个选择。

It's a show making choice to go against the canon.

所以这让你不禁怀疑，到底他们的意图是什么？

And so it makes you wonder, like, well, what's the intention?

那背后的含义到底是什么？

What what is what is the meaning behind?

这正是我想说的。

That's what I'm saying.

在那片红草地上，你们本可以放任何一面旗帜，你知道的，格鲁吉亚明确说过，这些指挥官在这里。

Of all the flags you could have put on the red grass field, you know, all the different things that Georgia specifically said, these commanders are here.

这些家族代表着这些事物。

These houses represented these things.

兰尼斯特家族简直太离谱了。

The Lannisters was just a a wild one.

然后，高庭显然比海塔尔家族更合理。

And then to have a high I mean, the fray makes a lot more sense than the Hightowers.

但在我们聊到剧透邮件之前，你还有什么想谈的吗？

But did you have anything that you wanted to talk about before we got to the spoiler emails?

是的

Yeah.

这一集真的让我回想起了我们写《诸神的王座》的日子。

This this episode really kinda brought me back to our days of writing Gods of Thrones.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

因为这一集里有大量我们之前没看到过的宗教仪轨。

Because there's so much liturgy in this in this particular episode that we didn't get.

你知道的，乔治几乎把七神信仰当作背景墙。

The you know, George George almost views the faith of the seven as the wallpaper.

人们不会谈论宗教的细节，因为它只是他们世界的一部分。

It's like people don't talk about the intricacies of the religion because it's just part of their world.

他们没必要去谈。

They don't need to.

而其他宗教体系之所以被详细描述，是因为在维斯特洛平民眼中，那些体系多少有些陌生，因此细节格外突出。

Whereas if we see these other religious systems described in great detail because to a commoners in Westeros' eyes, that's a little bit foreign and so the details stand out.

比如，我们通过猫的眼睛和布蕾妮的眼睛，对七神信仰做了一点描述。

So for instance, we give a little bit of description of the the, you know, faith of the seventh through cat's eyes and Brienne's eyes and whatnot.

但我们并没有看到很多宗教仪式。

But it we don't get a lot of liturgy.

而在这个场景中，我们看到了站在战场上的七神司祭，他说：‘愿七神见证我们庄严而血腥的献祭’，暗示这场战斗几乎像是一种赎罪的牺牲。

In this in this case, we get the Septon who's standing on the field who says, may the seven bear witness to our solemn and bloody offering suggesting that the battle is something of a almost an atoning sacrifice.

愿他们降临于我们凡俗的心中，寻得真理。

May they appear inside our mortal hearts and find the truth.

愿战士赐予我们战胜无辜者，并揭露那些虚伪之人的罪恶。

May the warrior grant victory over the innocent and reveal the guilty in their falseness.

愿死亡维系生命——我最近刚重看了原剧，因为我的儿子第一次在看，而在第一季的‘手的比武大会’上，当然没有七神司祭主持仪式。

May death sustain life I was just rewatching the original series because my son's watching it for the first time and in that first season the tourney of the hand they of course don't have a Septon sort of presiding over it.

他们让派席尔来主持，因为在第一季里，他们基本上把派席尔和总主教混为一谈了。

They have Pycelle because of course they just sort of conflate Pycelle and the high Septon basically in that first season.

他在开场时开始念一小段宗教祷文。

And he starts to do a little liturgy, little religious liturgy in in the beginning.

罗伯特说，是的。

And Robert's like, yeah.

对。

Yeah.

好。

Yeah.

随便吧。

Whatever.

我们赶紧继续吧，所以你实际上没听到仪式进行下去。

Let's get on So with you don't actually get to hear it proceed.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

在这部剧里，他们决定：不。

In this show, they decided, no.

我们要确保由一名七神教士来主持。

We're going to make sure it's a Septan.

我们要确保这个人穿着正确的服饰。

We're going to make sure that this person's wearing the right garb.

我们要确保能听到这段祷文。

We're going to make sure that we get to hear the liturgy.

我注意到最后一句‘愿死亡维系生命’，让人想起米里亚姆祖尔在进行她那小小的仪式、那场血祭时所说的话。

And I noted that this last line, may death sustain life, recalls what Miriamazdur says when she's about to do her little ritual, her little blood blood sacrifice ritual.

只有死亡才能换取生命。

And that is only death can pay for life.

我想，嗯，这有点意思，也许没什么深意，但在我们真正听到多斯拉克祷文、以战争圣歌形式呈现的那集中

And I thought, okay, well, that that is sort of interesting and maybe means nothing, but that in the in the episode where we actually get a Dothraki liturgy in the form of a of a war hymn

嗯。

Uh-huh.

这让我觉得，这一定是刻意为之。

It made me think, well, this has gotta be intentional.

他们在这里将不同的宗教体系和神灵联系在了一起。

They're making a connection here between the the different religious systems of religious gods.

是的

Yeah.

而且

And

让我最后再说一点。

and and let me just say last little bit here.

他们正在将不同神祇的形象联系起来。

They're making a connection between the the different faces of gods.

在这里，阿尔伦正在歌颂这位极具主导性的男性战神。

Here we have Arlen who's singing in praise of this very dominant male warrior god.

而邓克对母亲的记忆则更贴近七神信仰，也就是慈悲。

And then we have Dunk who's sort of his the memory of his mother is more in line with the faith of the sevens, you know, compassion.

所以，我只是觉得这是一个有趣的对比点。

So anyway, I I just thought that was an interesting little, dichotomy to bring out.

我有个更简单的解释。

I've got a simpler explanation.

哦，谢谢，我觉得阿伦爵士之所以认同伟大的种马，是因为他那话儿跟马一样大。

Oh, thank I think Sir Arlen just identifies with the Great Stallion because he's hung like a horse.

我的意思是，他总是会回到这一点，你知道的，尤其是当他自我感觉糟糕的时候。

I mean, always he he always kinda goes back to that, you know, and then times he's feeling bad about himself.

不。

No.

我就是那匹伟大的种马。

I'm the Great Stallion.

我只需要找一个女仆，然后找回自己。

I just need to find a maid and remember myself.

而且不。

And no.

我想说的是

I wanna say that

阿伦一直在大地上搜寻能与之产生共鸣的部落，他不得不远赴厄索斯，与多斯拉克人混在一起，才找到自己的族群。

Arlen has been scouring the earth with a tribe that he can identify with, and he had to go all the way to Essos to hang out with the Dothraki to find his people.

他们终于找到了他的族群。

They finally found his people.

他们曾试图让他变得温顺，但他太谦逊了。

They had tried to make him cow, but he was too he was too modest.

另外，你得记住，七神信仰是一种从厄索斯传来的外来信仰。

I so, I mean, the other thing you gotta remember is a faith of the seven is, a faith, a foreign faith that came over from Essos.

是的。

Yeah.

你在研究我们的《权力的游戏》诸神项目时，最深刻的印象就是融合现象。

And you the one thing that you kinda beat my head or the one word I came away with working on our Gods of Thrones project is the sync syncretism.

融合现象。

Syncretism.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

That's right.

而且，很难想象七神信仰没有更古老的宗教传统作为根源。

And and, like, it's it's not hard to imagine that the faith of the seven had roots in even older religious traditions.

你可能会觉得，多斯拉克人很可能拥有这些更古老的宗教传统之一。

And you'd think that Dothraki probably have one of those older religious traditions.

所以，嗯。

So Uh-huh.

很可能存在一些关于死亡以生命为代价的核心真理，这些观念是相通的。

It probably makes sense that there is, you know, some core truths about one, about death paying for life and that coming across.

你对那个只有十二岁的修士有什么看法？

Did you make anything as like what what did you make of the the the Septon being like 12 years old?

那只是

Was that just

是的。

Yeah.

我也在想这件事。

I was wondering about that.

我们其实不太清楚如何成为七神的辅祭。

I I you know, we don't know a whole lot about sort of how to become an acolyte of the seven.

我们知道，在中世纪世界里，有时候 priesthood 是用来安排第三或第四个儿子，给他们一个目标。

We do know in the medieval worlds, sometimes the priesthood was a way to send a third or fourth son and give them purpose.

所以，从我们的历史来看——虽然不是他们的历史——最终发生的情况是，你会把一个有王位继承权的人派去担任教会领袖。

And so basically what ends up happening in in, you know, this is our history not theirs, but what ends up happening is you would send someone who's in line for the throne even off to be a leader of the church.

然后，如果你需要，就可以把他从服务中召回。

And then you could recall them from service if you ever wanted to.

所以，这个孩子可能是某个贵族子弟，被赋予了一项可能超出他年龄的任务。

So it could be that this kid is some noble lord's son who's kind of given a task that's maybe above his age.

或者也可能是，嘿，老神父刚去世，而那位老神父之前喝醉了什么的。

Or it could be that it could be, hey man, the older Septon just died and the older Septon was drunk or something.

他们让一位辅祭出来处理事务。

They they they had one of the acolytes come out and do the business.

是的。

Yeah.

我不知道。

I don't know.

这是一个有趣的细节，这个世界里你可能会遇到一个看起来只有大约

It's it's an interesting little detail that this is a world where you could have a priest that looks like he's about

是的。

Yeah.

14岁的牧师。

14 years old.

我喜欢这一点，因为我觉得《权力的游戏》这部剧里很多时候都把角色的年龄放大了。

I like that because like I I I will say that a lot of what Game of Thrones has done in this series is kinda age people up.

所以每当他们扮演某个角色时，你知道，你经常会看到一个16岁的男孩，因为书里就是这样写的。

So whenever they're in a role, you know, you ever see like a 16 year old boy because that's what you get in the books.

比如，罗柏·史塔克。

Like, you know, Robb Stark.

你看到的都是十五六岁的男孩在指挥士兵。

You you get these 15 and 16 year old boys commanding men.

不过，这确实是历史事实。

Although, that's a historical fact.

比如，我很喜欢看《舰长与指挥官》时，看到一个九岁的小见习军官接管军舰，因为当时他们就是这么做的。

Like, I really like when I watch master and commanders seeing a nine year old midshipman take over the ship because that's what they would do.

就像，这种观念，是的。

Like, like, the conception Yeah.

这总让我们感到不安。

It's like we we it always wigs us out.

我注意到一件事会让吉姆很反感，那就是当他看到年幼的孩子被描绘成统帅士兵的领导者时，但事实上，历史上确实有过男孩国王等各种情况。

I noticed one thing that sets Jim's teeth off is when he sees, like, a young child portrayed as, like, a leader of men, but it's like, that's that's like you had the boy you had boy kings and all kinds of things.

所以我觉得，这就像另一个例子：在我们的世界里，孩子要到18岁才被视为成人，甚至越来越晚，要到24岁大脑发育完全才算；但在这样的世界里，这个家伙已经是个完全成熟的男子了。

So I saw it's like another is like, you know, unlike our world where children are not seen as adults until they're 18 and increasingly until their brain stops forming at 24 in this type of world that this guy's man full grown.

而且，如果他是个修士，他也不会使用自己的生殖器官。

And, if he's a, you know, he's a septin, he's not gonna be using his reproductive organs.

所以也许你甚至可以让一个完全成熟的男子更年轻一些，不管怎样，我觉得这很有趣

So maybe you can even make a man full grown younger because Anyway, I thought that

中世纪时期，一切都围绕着学徒制。

was Everything in the everything in the medieval period was about apprenticeship.

所以，如果你是铁匠的儿子，你什么时候开始学习这门手艺？

So if you were like the son of a blacksmith, when are you gonna start learning about that trade?

对。

Right.

只要你能拿起工具，就开始学习这门手艺。

You're gonna start learning about the trade as soon as you can hold the tool.

是的。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Yeah.

只要你的眼睛和耳朵能理解你爸爸在敲打金属，你就会开始和他一起敲打金属。

So as soon as your eyes and ears can comprehend your dad is hitting metal, you're gonna be starting to hit metal with him.