战时与和平时期：本·霍洛维茨谈领导力

文化不是一套信仰，伊索克小姐。

Culture is not a set of beliefs, miss Issoke.

而是一套行为。

It's a set of actions.

本说，你欠我20美元。

And Ben says, you owe $20.

好的。

Okay.

于是我伸手去拿我的钱包。

So I reach into my wallet.

你知道，当时的惯例是把现金放在桌上。

And, you know, the norm was you put the cash on the table.

对。

Yeah.

于是我伸手去拿钱包，结果不幸的是，我身上只有一张100美元。

So I reach into my wallet and I pull out and I unfortunately only had a $100.

我把它拿出来，本看到了，说：我们不找零，混蛋。

And I kind of pull it out and Ben sees it and he's like, we don't make change, motherfucker.

如果

If

如果你迟到了五分钟、十分钟，你可以说你尊重打造一家公司意味着什么，但你其实并不真正尊重打造一家公司意味着什么。

you show up five minutes late, ten minutes late, then you can say you have respect for what it means to build a company, but you don't really have respect for what it means to build a company.

因为如果你真的尊重，就不会这么做。

Because you wouldn't do that if you did.

你知道吗？

You know what?

宁可正确，也不要一致。

It's better to be right than consistent.

今天，您将听到2023年8月的一期节目，内容来自我们的生物与健康构建大会的独家音频，包括a16z联合创始人本·霍洛维茨与生物与健康领域普通合伙人豪尔赫·孔德的对话。

Today, you'll hear an episode from August 2023 featuring exclusive audio from our Bio and Health Build Conference, including a conversation between A16Z co founder Ben Horowitz and Bio and Health general partner Jorge Conde.

他们讨论了从本的著作《艰难事物的艰难之处》的创作灵感，书中包含了一个关于开放互联网如何被保障的精彩故事，而结果远非板上钉钉。

They discuss everything from the inspiration behind Ben's book, The Hard Thing About Hard Things, which includes a powerful story about how open Internet was secured and how the outcome was far from guaranteed.

你还会听到关于历史上令人惊讶的领导者、战时与和平时期CEO的区别、真正构建文化意味着什么，以及生物与医疗健康创新与其他类型技术的关键差异。

You'll also hear about surprising leaders from history, the difference between wartime and peacetime CEOs, what building culture really means, and the key differences between bio and health care innovation versus other types of technology.

让我们开始吧。

Let's get into it.

早上好。

Morning.

今天天气真好。

Beautiful day today.

显然，你知道，本根本不需要什么介绍，但我还是说一下吧。

So obviously, you know, Ben really doesn't need much of an introduction, but I will Yeah.

他们拥有谷歌。

They have Google.

但是

But

你什么都做过了。

you've done everything.

对吧？

Right?

你创办过公司。

You've been the founder of companies.

你当过CEO、风险投资人、畅销书作者。

You've been a CEO, venture capitalist, best selling author.

你知道，对我来说，令人惊叹的一件事是，当我走访那些我们有幸投资的创始人和公司时，我经常看到有人手里拿着《艰难时代的艰难之事》这本书，或者

You know, one of the things that to me is incredible is as I go and visit founders, companies that we're fortunate to be investors in, more often than not, I see a copy of The Hard Thing About Hard Things or

是的。

Yeah.

当事情变糟时，就是我的时刻。

When things go bad, it's my time.

而且

And

我 personally可以告诉你，当我还是创始人、CEO的时候，我就读过《艰难时代的艰难之事》。

I will tell you, on a personal note, I picked up The Hard Thing About Hard Things when I was a founder, when I was a CEO.

我当时已经挣扎了七年。

I was about seven years into the struggle.

你所说的那种大写的挣扎。

Capital S struggle, as you call it.

是的，Startbook。

Yeah, Startbook

这种挣扎可能会持续很久。

can last a long time.

是啊，老兄。

Yeah, man.

这很痛苦。

It was painful.

对我来说，读起来很难受。

And for me, it was a hard read.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道吗，对我来说，那本书甚至算不上一本书。

You know, I will say like that book, it wasn't even a book for me.

更像是一种干预。

Was like an intervention.

就像我需要它一样。

Like I needed it.

你说了那些我感受得到却无法表达出来的话。

You said the things that I was feeling that I couldn't articulate.

所以谢谢你。

So thank you.

谢谢你写下了它。

Thank you for writing it.

嗯。

Yeah.

那本书的很大一部分内容，其实就是大家都有感受却没人愿意说的事。

That was a lot of the book was, you know, the things that everybody was feeling and nobody was willing to talk about.

嗯。

Yeah.

写起来难吗？

Was Was it hard to write or

有没有某个时刻，它自然而然地涌现在你笔下？

did it sort of flow out of you at some point?

不，不，不。

No, no, no.

我只是对人们描述创业的方式感到非常愤怒，所以写起来很容易。

I was just like so mad about how building a company was being described that it was easy to write.

你知道，当你带着愤怒写作时，就会很顺畅。

You know, when you write in a fit of rage, it's easy.

这是充满灵感的写作。

It's inspired writing.

是的。

Yes.

有灵感的写作。

Inspired writing.

所以让我们聊聊

So let's talk a

稍微谈一谈写这本书背后的深层动力。

little bit about, you know, sort of the underlying fire behind writing that book.

你觉得在成为创始人、首席执行官和领导者的过程中，你学到的最重要或最关键的教训是什么？

What would you say are some of the the biggest or most important lessons that you learned along the way in terms of being a founder, a CEO, a leader?

嗯。

Yeah.

这很有趣。

So it's interesting.

我一直在思考这个问题。

I was thinking about this.

最大的教训其实是，我会花点时间讲这个，因为它与当今的主流观点恰恰相反。

The biggest lesson is actually, and I'll spend some time on this because it's a counter lesson to, I think, today's conventional wisdom.

你知道，现在大多数人不再认同的那种想法之一，就是所谓的历史伟人理论，即历史是由某些人做某些事推动的，而这种观点已经被另一种看法取代——即有巨大的文化力量在推动历史。

So, you know, like one of the things that most people no longer agree with that kind of wants is this whole like great person of history theory, where like history is moved by certain people doing certain things and it's kind of been replaced with these, you know, there are these big cultural forces that move it.

几年前，或者也许是十年前，奥巴马发表过一次演讲，他说，‘你并不是自己创造的。’

And then there was a speech Obama gave a few years back or maybe ten years back now where he said, you know, it's like, you didn't build that.

这两种说法都有其真实性，也就是说，没错，你不可能独自创办一家公司。

And there's truth in both of them, which is, well, yeah, you can't build a company by yourself.

没错，确实存在各种文化力量。

And yeah, like there are cultural forces.

但我认为这两种说法都不完全正确，因为如果你真的创办过公司，你会发现，很多人其实是可以被替代的，但有少数人一旦离开，事情就完了。

But I think that neither is quite true in that if you've kind of built companies, what you realize is there's a lot of people who you can replace, and then there's a few people who if they go, that's it.

一切都结束了。

It's game over.

公司也就完了。

That's end of the company.

而这通常就是创始人。

And that's, you know, quite often the founder.

让我给你讲几个故事，说明在某个时刻的个人努力如何改变了世界的走向。

And let me give you kind of like a couple of stories on how an individual effort in a moment in time kinda changes the outcome for the world.

当我们还在网景公司的时候，很多人已经不记得了，但当时互联网并不是板上钉钉的事。

So when we were at Netscape, and a lot of people don't remember this anymore, but the Internet was not a fait accompli.

互联网并不是理所当然就会出现的。

Like, the Internet wasn't, like, automatic.

它并不是注定会发生的。

It was gonna happen regardless.

这完全不对。

That's not true at all.

事实上，如果你回溯过去，能找到比尔·盖茨1995年出版的《未来之路》第一版——那是在Mosaic浏览器等技术问世多年之后。

In fact, if you go back and if you can get your hands on the first edition of Bill Gates' book, The Road Ahead, which was published in 1995, right, many years after like the Mosaic browser and all that.

这本书讲的是未来，却一次都没有提到‘互联网’这个词。

It's a book about the future, and it doesn't mention the word Internet not one time.

他提到的是另一个东西，叫‘信息高速公路’，那是他和拉里·埃里森试图以专有方式构建的东西。

He refers to something else, which was called the information superhighway, which was something that he was trying to build, Larry Ellison was trying to build in a proprietary way.

当时是1995年初，竞争非常激烈。

And it was very competitive kind of at the time in, you know, early ninety five.

当时大多数人、大部分媒体以及世界上绝大多数人都认为互联网不会成功，因为它只是一个奇怪的学术网络。

And most people and most of the press and most of the kind of people in the world thought the Internet wouldn't make it because it was a weird academic network.

你知道，上面都是些教授。

You know, it was a bunch of professors on it.

而且最重要的是，它没有任何安全性。

And most of all, it had no security.

当时人人都知道，一旦协议已经广泛部署，就不可能再事后添加安全性。

And everybody knew then that you couldn't put security into a protocol after the fact, particularly if it was widely deployed.

你在说什么呢？

What are you talking about?

它永远不会成功的。

It's never gonna work.

所以，比尔·盖茨打算以一种专有的方式掌控互联网，就像Facebook掌控社交网络那样。

And so, you know, Bill Gates was gonna own the Internet in a proprietary way, much the way like Facebook owned social networking or that kind of thing.

我记得很清楚，因为当时网景公司有个叫基普·希克曼的人。

And I remember it clearly because, you know, we had this guy at Netscape by the name of Kip Hickman.

关于他有个传说，我非常了解，因为几年前我和他在硅谷图形公司共事过。

And there was this legend behind him, which I knew very well because I was at Silicon Graphics with him, you know, years before.

吉姆·克拉克是我们那位非常热情的创始人，我们无法让操作系统在SGI的新型多处理器机器上运行。

And Jim Clark, who was our kind of, like, very excitable founder, we couldn't get the kinda operating system to work on the SGI machine on the new multiprocessor machine.

吉姆不断招聘和解雇工程师，包括发明了Bourne shell的史蒂夫·伯恩——如果你是Unix高手的话，你应该知道这个人。

And Jim kept hiring and firing engineers, including, like, Steve Born who invented the Born shell, you know, for those of you who are Unix heads.

他解雇了史蒂夫·伯恩。

And he fired Steve Born.

他说：不行。

He's like, no.

他就是搞不定。

He couldn't get it to work.

而基普·希克曼却把它解决了。

And Kip Hickman got it to work.

于是，基普·希克曼在硅图公司，吉姆·克拉克对他说：基普，你必须保护互联网。

And so Kip Hickman's at Silicon Graphics, and Jim Clark says to him, Kip, you have to secure the Internet.

就是这样。

Just like that.

就像他说的那样：你必须保护互联网。

Like, that that was like, you have to secure the Internet.

基普在三个月后带着SSL返回了，将SPECT集成到产品中，这改变了局面。

And Kip came back in three months with SSL, like SPECT implemented in the product, and that changed it.

这基本上标志着互联网战胜了微软的专有网络的开端。

And that was like basically the start of the Internet beating the Microsoft proprietary network.

如果微软赢了，内森·默沃尔德早就说过，我们要对互联网上的每一笔交易收取一笔费用，这是一种黑手党术语。

If Microsoft had won, Nathan Merwold had already said, we're gonna take a vigorous, which is a kind of mafia term, basically a cut of every transaction on the Internet.

你想想，那将会是一个完全不同的世界。

And you go, well, that would have been a very different world.

而我们实际上已经看到了这种情况的发生。

And we've actually seen that play out.

对吧？

Right?

比如，智能手机本可以是开放的，但没人在这方面做到这种程度。

Like, the smartphone could have been open, but, like, nobody stepped up to that degree on the open thing.

我们每下载一个智能手机应用都要支付30%的费用。

And we do pay a 30% tax on every single application we get on the smartphone.

你是说通过苹果商店吗？

You mean through, like, through the Apple Store?

对。

Yeah.

通过苹果商店。

Through the Apple Store.

所以事情真的可以改变。

So things can really change.

而且，你知道，没错。

And, you know, so yeah.

埃隆·马斯克，你知道，他并不是特斯拉的创始人，也没有办法靠那些人把车造出来。

Elon Musk, you know, he didn't start Tesla, and he couldn't build it with all those people.

但要是他没有那么疯狂地筹钱、四处奔走，去挑战福特和通用汽车——那简直是疯狂到极点的事——电动车的发展还要再等多久？

But, like, if he hadn't, like, been so crazy and raised all that money and so forth and taken on Ford and GM, which was, like, the most psycho thing you could ever do, Like, how much longer for electric cars?

可能还得再等十年、二十年。

Would have been, you know, ten years, twenty years.

所以，我学到的最重要的一课就是：如果在那个关键时刻，创始人或那个人没有挺身而出，世界就会变得不一样。

And so, you know, a lot of the biggest lesson that I have is if in that moment, the founder or the person doesn't step up, then the world is different.

看看在座的每一位创始人，如果你不去解决医疗体系的问题，不去研发那种药物，也许未来会有人去做，但在这期间会有多少人死去？

And look, for everybody here who's a founder, if you don't fix the healthcare system, if you don't kind of produce that drug, like maybe somebody will do it in the future, but how many people are gonna die in the meanwhile?

你知道，世界真的会因为个人的努力而改变，这大概也是我创办这家公司的最主要原因——就是为了传递这个信息。

And you know, the world really does change on individual efforts, and that's probably the biggest reason, you know, I wanted to start the firm was just to get that message out.

这真了不起。

That's remarkable.

而且令人惊叹的是，你能举出这么多具体例子，说明创始人如何改变了世界。

And it is incredible that you can pick sort of specific examples of where a founder did change the world.

这是一个很好的教训。

And that's a great lesson.

说到伟大的创始人，你的作品中经常提到很多历史人物。

Speaking of great founders, you make a lot of historical references in your work.

你知道，在历史上，有哪些让你觉得出人意料的领导者，值得向这里的人们提及吗？

You know, who's a surprising leader in history that you would highlight to folks here?

有没有一些来自意想不到人物的独特教训，我们可以从中汲取？

And are there any sort of unique lessons that we can draw from an unsuspecting figure, if you will?

是的。

Yeah.

我写得最多的一个人物是图桑·卢维杜尔，他是海地革命的创始人，这场革命是人类历史上唯一一次成功的奴隶起义。

So the one that I've probably written the most about is Toussaint Louverture, who was the founder of the Haitian Revolution, which is the only successful slave revolt in human history.

我不知道其他物种是否有奴隶。

I don't know if there's other species that have slaves.

但他非常了不起，他生来就是奴隶，但他发现了一些非常特别的东西，他就像一个极其聪明的人。

But he was really remarkable in that he was born a slave, but the kind of very special thing that he figured out, and he, you know, like a very like a super smart guy.

我的意思是，他能获得那个位置的部分原因是他太聪明了，以至于种植园的主人说：‘哇，你比这里所有人都聪明。’

I mean, part of the the reason he got into that position is he was so smart that the guy running the plantation was like, wow, you're smarter than everybody else here.

我就让你来管了。

I'm just gonna let you run it.

你知道，刘差不多接管了，并且成了那个人的司机。

You know, Liu kinda take over and he became the guy's driver.

所以他经常进城，与当时正在争夺这个岛屿的各个欧洲人会面。

And so he would go into town and meet all the various Europeans who were kind of fighting over the island at the time.

他基本上学会了欧洲文化。

And he basically learned European culture.

通过理解欧洲文化中的所有事物，以及奴隶文化中的所有事物，他成功地建立了一支军队，而此前没人能做到这一点，因为奴隶文化很难转化为军事文化——这是一种信任度极低的环境。

And by understanding all the things in European culture and then all the things in slave culture, he was able to take a culture that nobody had been able to create a military out of because slave culture is very difficult, military culture because it's a very low trust environment.

而且在

And in

军队中，你必须能够信任命令，才能完成任何事情。

the military of course you have to be able to trust the orders in order to get anything done.

因此，杜桑能够将两者融合，通过这种方式，他组建了一支庞大的军队，击败了岛上的英国、法国和西班牙势力，夺取了整个岛屿。

And so Toussaint was able to merge the two and by doing that he ended up building with this massive army and defeating the British and the French and the Spanish on the island and taking the whole thing.

讽刺的是，这最终成了他的致命弱点，因为他为了创造这种混合文化，将欧洲人纳入了自己的军队。

And it ended up actually being his downfall very ironically in that because he incorporated, you know in doing it he would incorporate Europeans into his army to kind of create this hybrid culture.

正是这一点让他的敌人最终找到了机会，将他交给了拿破仑，那就是

And that's how his enemies unhooked him at the end and turned him over to Napoleon and that was the

杜桑的终结。

end of Toussaint.

而

And

他们最终终结了这种非常先进的文化。

they kind of ended that culture which was a very advanced culture.

因此，当杜桑统治海地时，他们的出口收入实际上超过了美国。

So when Toussaint was running Haiti, they actually had more export income than The United States.

所以他建立了一个相当了不起的经济体系等等，但算了。

So he had built like a pretty amazing economy and so forth, but oh well.

非凡。

Remarkable.

但最终并没有成功。

It didn't work out in the end.

但这真是一个难以置信的故事，讲述如何从一些人们原本认为不会奏效的元素中构建出一个组织。

But like it was an unbelievable story of how you build an organization out of, you know, kind of elements that people might not think would work.

当然，我想回到文化这个话题，因为在这次活动的过程中，文化的重要性在多个小组讨论中都出现了。

So I wanna of course come back and touch on culture because one of the things that's been remarkable is over the course of this event, the importance of culture has come up on various panels.

所以我想确保我们能回到这一点。

So I wanna make sure we get back to that.

但在转向文化之前，你刚才谈到了海地的军队。

But before we'd shift to culture, you're talking about the army in Haiti.

你写了很多关于战时和和平时期的内容。

So you've written a lot about wartime and peacetime.

关于战时CEO和和平时期的一号人物，对于可能没看过你相关论述的人，你能解释一下你的意思吗？

The wartime CEO and So the peacetime number one, for folks that may have not seen your words on that, you define what you mean by that.

当然，接下来显而易见的问题是：我们现在处于战时吗？

And then of course the obvious follow-up question is, are we in wartime now?

我们是不是，我猜答案大概率是肯定的。

Are we, which I assume the answer is probably.

如果是的话，那么CEO和创始人应该如何思考这个问题呢？

And if so, you know, how should CEOs, founders be thinking about that?

是的，我在那篇帖子中引用了一句说唱歌词，我觉得它很好地描述了这一点：‘你真幸运我不是总统，否则我早就按下那个该死的按钮，了结一切，别再拖延、谈判了。’

Yeah, I had a rap quote on that post, which I think describes it well, which is, You're lucky that I ain't the president because I'd push the fucking button, get it over with fuck all that waiting and procrastinating and all that goddamn negotiating.

这正是战时心态的写照——我们直接行动，不再多谈。

And that's kind of like the mentality of the wartime, like we're just going, we're done talking.

最好的理解方式是，想象你在建立一支和平时期的军队，用来应对与苏联的冷战。

Kind of the best way to think about it is imagine like you're building like a peacetime army to fight the cold war against the Soviet Union.

你有一套明确的士兵形象标准，也有将军的选拔标准。

And you've got a profile for like what a soldier should look like and who should be a general.

你有OKR和KPI，有应对冷战的战略，以及需要研发的各种武器装备等等。

And you've got OKRs and KPIs and a strategy for fighting the cold war and all the kinds of things, the kinds of weapons you need to build and all this stuff.

然后有一天你醒来，发现你在和ISIS作战。

And then one day you wake up and you're fighting ISIS.

那么，那些旧的东西还有多少是正确的？

And like how much of that old stuff is right?

也许全都不对。

Maybe none of it.

那些旧时代的人中，有多少能真正去打ISIS？

How much of those old people are gonna be the people who can actually fight ISIS?

不是所有人都行。

Not all of them.

但你知道这一点，而别人却不知道。

But you know that and nobody else knows that.

那么，你该如何把这支军队从那里带到这里？

And so how do you get the army from there to here?

这在很大程度上就像那些重大的宏观经济转折时发生的情况。

And that's a little bit kind of what happens in these big macroeconomic turns.

对吧？

Right?

你为这个高增长环境搭建了整个体系，但突然间，它不再是高增长环境了。

You set up this whole thing for this high growth environment, and then all of a sudden it's not a high growth environment.

但团队仍然沿用旧策略、旧KPI、旧OKR和旧组织架构，你如何快速让他们转向新方向？

But the team is still on the old strategy, the old KPIs, the old OKRs, the old organizational design, and how do you get them over there fast?

因此，战时的很多工作就是：如何让团队迅速从旧计划转向新计划？

And so a lot of what wartime is is like, how do you get the team very fast from the old plan to the new plan?

这不再是你们的旧流程。

And it's not your old process.

我们不会像以前那样，不，我们不这么做了。

We're not gonna go like, you know, it tends to be like, no, we're not doing that.

我们要这么做。

We're doing this.

但你上周不是还说，你知道吗？

Well, but you said last week, you know what?

宁可正确，也不要一致。

It's better to be right than consistent.

所以，我上周说的任何话，都别信了。

So whatever I said last week, don't believe it.

那已经不成立了。

It's no longer true.

结束了。

It's over.

你要愿意这样做，才算得上是战时状态。

And you have to be willing to do that to be kind of wartime.

在这样的时刻，这变得至关重要，因为每一天的拖延都可能让你的公司付出代价。

And at a time like this, it becomes very essential because every day you delay could cost you the company.

但要转向战时状态，必须满足两个条件，对吧？

But to make that shift into like a wartime footing, two things have to be true, right?

你必须意识到自己正在打仗，然后还得有能力做出艰难的决定。

You have to recognize that you're at war, and then you have to be able to make the tough decisions.

所以我认为，以我的经验来看，大多数人其实都意识到了，但他们却僵住了。

So I think that most people, like in my experience, most people recognize it and they freeze.

然后他们就僵住了。

And they freeze.

所以他们不再做同样的工作。

So they don't do the same work.

因为在战时，有两件事是人们不愿意做但又必须做的。

Because there's two things that people don't wanna do that are necessary in wartime.

第一，他们不愿意变得不一致。

One, they don't wanna be inconsistent.

这非常危险。

And that's very dangerous.

第二，他们不愿意倾听自己的团队。

And then the second thing they don't wanna do is not listen to their team.

我知道这听起来很奇怪。

And I know that sounds funny.

那么，本，你这话是什么意思？

Well, what do you mean, Ben?

你是说我们不应该倾听我们的团队吗？

You're saying we shouldn't listen to our teams?

是的。

Yes.

你不能倾听你的团队，因为他们还停留在旧计划、旧结构和旧观念中。

You can't listen to your team because they're on the old plan, in the old structure with the old idea.

所以在他们重新调整之前的这段时间里，你必须做出决定，说不，不，我们不这么做。

And so you have to, for that period until they reset, you've gotta dictate and go, no, no, we're not doing that.

然后他们会开始用你的文化理念来反对你。

And then they'll start using your cultural ideas against you.

那我们来谈谈文化吧。

So let's talk about culture.

我们来谈谈你的观点。

Let's talk about your words.

是的。

Yeah.

你如何定义文化？

How do you define culture?

你知道，人们通常对文化有一种感觉，但很难准确定义。

You know, I think people have like a feeling of what culture is, but it's a hard thing to define.

所以请帮我们定义一下文化，以及你所说的文化指的是什么。

So help us define culture and what you mean by it.

是的。

Yeah.

从文化设计和文化实施的角度来看，我非常喜欢武士。

So I love the Samurai from a cultural design standpoint, cultural implementation standpoint.

如果你今天去日本，你会发现那里充满了武士文化。

It's an amazing thing in that if you go to Japan today, like it's laden with samurai culture.

他们是怎么建立起如此持久的文化的？

Like, how did they build a culture that lasted so long?

他们的一个核心观点是，文化不是一套信念。

And one of their core ideas is a culture is not a set of beliefs.

这是索契。

This is Sochi.

而是一套行为。

It's a set of actions.

我认为，当你谈论文化时，这就是你需要从这里开始的地方。

And I think when you talk about culture, that's like where you have to start.

文化就是你所有的行为，你们彼此对待的方式。

Culture is all the behaviors that you have, how you treat each other.

比如，如果有人给你发了一封邮件，你是会在一小时、一天、一周、一个月，还是三个月后回复？

You know, like if somebody sends you an email, do you get back to them, you know, in an hour, in a day, in a week, in a month, in three months.

但这些都属于文化观念。

But like that's a cultural idea.

你旅行时是住四季酒店，还是红屋顶旅馆？

Do you stay at the Four Seasons or at the Red Roof Inn when you traveled?

所有这些事情都是文化的一部分。

Like all these things are cultural.

与合作伙伴共事时，你真的关心他们的结果吗？

When you work with partners, do you actually care about their outcome or not?

所有这些都属于你的文化。

Like all these things are a part of your culture.

你的文化最终比使命宣言、关键绩效指标或其他任何东西更能定义组织的运作方式，因为它反映了你每天的行为方式。

And your culture ends up kind of defining a lot more of how the organization works than your mission statement or your KPIs or any of that other stuff because it's like daily how you're behaving.

每个人所做的每一个微小决定，都在某种程度上反映了文化。

Every micro decision that everybody makes is kind of a reflection of the culture.

你开会准时吗？

Do you come to a meeting on time?

这重要吗？

Like, does that matter?

那些开会总是迟到的公司，比如会议经常推迟二十、三十分钟才开始。

Companies that aren't on time to meetings, like meetings start like twenty, thirty minutes late, like consistently.

而准时到场的人只是坐在那里玩笔记本电脑，做别的事。

And whoever shows up on time is just like sitting there on their laptop, whatever.

但这些都是行为上的表现。

But that's all like behavioral.

这并不是一种信念。

It's not a belief.

人们试图从这些信念中寻找东西，但它们其实毫无意义。

And you know, people are trying to find things in terms of these beliefs, but they don't mean anything.

就像诚信。

It's like integrity.

我们是一个崇尚诚信的文化。

We're a culture of integrity.

好吧。

Well, okay.

那我们具体一点。

So let's get specific.

所以，当涉及到对投资者承诺实现计划的诚信、对员工承诺带来良好结果的诚信，或是对客户在交易中的诚信时，如果这些发生冲突，哪一个会被牺牲？

So if it comes down to the integrity with your investors promising to make your plan or the integrity with the employee promising that like it's gonna be a great outcome or the integrity with your customer on the deal, like which one gets compromised if they come into conflict.

这才是关键所在。

That's the real thing.

诚信就像空中楼阁。

Integrity like it's pie in the sky.

大多数公司用这种空中楼阁般、可以任意解读的概念来定义自己的文化。

Most companies define their culture in this pie in the sky concepts that can be interpreted however you want.

但重要的不是理念，而是行为。

But it's not the idea, it's the behaviors.

因此，你必须明确地定义：在某种特定情况下，我们该如何行事？

And so you really have to define things in terms of like, how are we gonna behave in a certain situation?

我们有很多类似的规定。

And so like we have many things like this.

比如，你迟到参加与创业者的会议，这就是一个严重的问题。

So like, you're late for a meeting with an entrepreneur, that's a real fucking problem.

这就是行为。

Like, that's the behavior.

就是这个。

It's that.

它存在于一流企业、一流人士的底层。

And it's underneath the guys of first class business, first class boy.

但这意味着什么？

But what does it mean?

所以我们信奉的一点是，我们不是扼杀梦想的人，而是支持梦想的人。

And so one of the things we believe in, we believe in, like, we're not dream killers, we're dream supporters.

这什么意思？

What does that mean?

如果你在推特上说一个创业者的点子很蠢，你就被开除了。

Well, if you get on Twitter and say an entrepreneur's idea is stupid, you're fired.

这就是它的含义。

Like, that's what it means.

而且这并不局限于任何创业者，因为我们是梦想的建设者。

And it doesn't have to be like any entrepreneur because we're like dream builders.

我们相信每一个有梦想的人，我们都支持。

We believe anybody who has a dream, we're for that.

我不在乎我们是否认为这是个好主意，我们都支持。

I don't care if we think it's a good idea or not, we're for that.

这就是我们的文化。

And that's our culture.

但必须要有与之相配的行为。

But there's gotta be a behavior that goes with it.

你明白我的意思吗？

You see what I'm saying?

否则，人们会误解它。

Otherwise, like people will misinterpret it.

他们会重新诠释它。

They'll reinterpret it.

他们会利用这一点来攻击你，当你谈论文化时，你谈的是我们该如何行事？

They'll weaponize it against know, when you talk about culture, you're talking about how are we gonna behave?

我们每天该如何表现？

How do we show up every day?

我们该如何对待彼此？

How do we treat each other?

与我们互动是什么感觉？

What is it like to interact with us?

与我们做生意，人们是变得更好了还是更糟了？

Are people better off or worse off for doing business with us?

这些是你必须问自己的问题。

These are the things you have to ask yourself.

而这正是它的真正含义。

And that's what it ends up meaning.

这非常重要，但人们往往因为觉得它太奇怪、太抽象而忽视了它。

And it's really important, but people, because it's so weird and abstract, people don't pay enough attention to it often.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为，你所做的事情才定义了文化。

I think that focus on the what you do is what defines the culture.

是的。

Yeah.

你所做的就是你是谁

What you do is who you

。

are.

人们误解了那个标题

People misinterpreted that title

顺便说一下，误解很多。

a lot by the way.

我不是销售员。

I'm not a salesman.

我的意思就是这个。

It's like, that's what I meant.

这是我们行为的体现。

It's our behavior.

你知道吗，公司早期以迟到为由向创业者收费，对吧？

Know, the firm famously in the early days would charge if you were late to meeting with an entrepreneur, right?

是的，这是一种对美元的体现，当时有——

As a Yeah, reflection of dollars And a there was a-

我从安德里森那里因为这个被扣了3000块。

I got like 3,000 off Andreessen on that.

我记得有一次，由于一系列不幸且意想不到的情况，我迟到了。

Well, I remember I was once late by a series of very unfortunate and unforeseen circumstances.

我参加创业者会议迟到了两分钟，一进门，本就说：你欠我20美元。

I was two minutes late to an entrepreneur meeting, And I walk in, and Ben says, You owe $20.

明白吗？

Okay?

所以我伸手去掏钱包，你知道，当时的惯例是把现金放在桌上。

So I reach into my wallet, and you know, the norm was you put the cash on the table.

对。

Yeah.

于是我伸手去掏钱包，拿出钱来，可惜我只有一百美元，我刚拿出来，本就看到了。

So I reach into my wallet, I pull out, and I unfortunately only had $100 And I kind of pull it out, Ben sees it.

他说道：‘我们不找零，混蛋。’

And he's like, we don't make change, motherfucker.

所以那两分钟让我花了100美元。

So those two minutes cost me $100

从没迟到过，你学到了教训。

Never late learned your lesson.

懂吗？

Know?

对。

Yeah.

当时是

It was

再也没迟到过。

never late again.

我也随身带小额钞票。

Also I carry small bills.

很好。

Very good.

但把你的文化价值观放进年度评估中，真的必须是你每天都会践行的东西，对吧？

But that's really important in that putting like your cultural values in your like annual review, it's gotta be something you hit daily, Right?

你必须不断被提醒。

Like, you have to be reminded of it constantly.

就像那个，为什么你不能迟到？

And like that one, like, why aren't you late?

关键在于，为什么你不能迟到？

The big thing is, well, why can't you be late?

因为创建一家公司真的很难。

Well, because it's really hard to build a company.

如果你迟到了五分钟、十分钟，你可以说你尊重创建公司意味着什么，但你实际上并不真正尊重创建公司意味着什么。

And if you show up five minutes late, ten minutes late, then you can say you have respect for what it means to build a company, but you don't really have respect for what it means to build a company.

因为如果你真的尊重，你就不会那样做。

Because you wouldn't do that if you did.

所以每个人都必须明白这一点。

And so everybody has to know that.

如果一家风险投资公司的每个人每天都不清楚这一点，他们就会失去它，因为另一种行为是：我有钱。

And if everybody in a venture capital firm doesn't know that on a daily basis, then they'll lose that because the other behavior is I have the money.

你需要钱。

You need the money.

你来找我，是为了得到钱。

You show up to me to get the money.

我来决定你是否能得到钱。

I decide if you want the money.

我觉得自己像个大人物。

I feel like the big person.

你知道，你是个小人物。

You know, you're the small person.

这种心态很容易渗透进风险投资公司。

Like that can seep into a venture capital firm really easy.

所以你需要每天都有这样的行为：不，我们不这么做。

So you need a daily behavior to go, no, we're not doing that.

不，我们不这么做。

No, we're not doing that.

我们要准时。

We're gonna be on time.

我们要及时回复别人。

We're gonna get back to people.

如果我们不投资，我们会告诉他们原因。

We're gonna if we don't invest, we're gonna let them know why.

所有这些行为都在对抗一种自然的动态，而这种动态可能会让你变成自己不想成为的人。

Like all those things, all those behaviors counter program this natural kind of dynamic that can make you somebody you don't wanna be.

所以当你谈论文化时，你真正谈论的就是这些。

And so when you talk about culture, that's what you're really talking about.

很久以前你跟我提过一件事，让我印象深刻，就是关于公司规模扩大时的沟通问题。

You said something to me a long time ago that stuck with me, and it was around communication for as companies scale.

嗯。

Yeah.

我记得你告诉我，当员工超过50人时，原来用于50人沟通的系统就失效了。

I think you told me like after 50 people, the systems that you had to communicate with 50 break down.

嗯。

Yeah.

你需要一套新的系统。

And you gotta have a new system.

文化能随着规模扩大吗？

Does culture scale?