Epic Games

早期就把总裁挖走了？

early recruited away the president?

是的。

Yeah.

他是id公司的早期总裁。

He was the early president of id.

哇。

Wow.

所以一开始他们讨论的是，也许id可以发行《吉尔丛林历险记》。

So at first they're talking about like, well, maybe id could publish Jill of the Jungle.

但后来马克与卡马克和罗梅罗发生矛盾并离开了id，蒂姆说：嘿，我有个更好的主意。

But then Mark ends up falling out with Carmack and Romero leaving id and Tim says, hey, I've got an even better idea.

你为什么不来Epic加入我们，担任我们的发行和出版负责人呢？

Why don't you come join us here at Epic and you can be our head of distribution and publishing?

于是他招募了马克，马克确实曾是id的总裁，来加入这家公司。

And so he recruits Mark who, yeah, had been president of id to come join this company.

记住，蒂德斯，那是

Remember, Tidds That's

对他来说是一次疯狂的职业变动。

a crazy career move for him.

当时他已经是全球最大的游戏公司之一的总裁，而放弃这个头衔去接受更低的职位，简直不可思议。

Like, he's president of one of the biggest game companies in the world at that point, and to go and take anything less than that title is wild.

太疯狂了。

Totally wild.

他成为了Epic的副总裁

He became vice president

在Epic，他当时是

at Epic, which he was

作为员工，大概是三号或二号之类的。

As employee, what, three or two or something.

是的。

Yeah.

确实如此。

Indeed.

所以他来加入了蒂姆。

So he comes and joins Tim.

记住，当时蒂姆还只是大学三年级学生，而和他一起工作的是高中毕业班的克利菲·B。

Remember, Tim is like a junior in college at this point in time and he's got Cliffy B working with him who's a senior in high school.

但他们推出了这款游戏，并且反响非常好。

But they put out this game and it does really well.

然后克里夫·B开始开发其他几款同样表现非常出色的游戏。

And then Cliffy B starts working on a few other games that also do really well.

转眼之间，他们通过这种共享软件模式销售了相当多的软件，并且做得相当不错。

Next thing you know, they're selling quite a good bit of software through this shareware model and doing quite well.

于是蒂姆最终在大四那年辍学，他们开始全职投入这项事业。

And so Tim ends up dropping out of college in his final year and they go full time on the business.

所以他们销售这些游戏，虽然都还是2D横版卷轴游戏，但新兴的游戏产业即将迎来另一场相当重大的变革，那是什么时候开始的呢？

So they're selling these games, they're all still two d side scrollers but there's another pretty big revolution that's about to come in the nascent gaming industry here it's When getting we in?

所以我们现在大概是在90年代初，91年、92年左右。

So we're now in like the early 90s, 'ninety one, 'ninety two.

在那之后不久，Id Software和约翰·卡马克就开始谈论他们正在开发的一个大项目，那是一款即将命名为《毁灭战士》的游戏。

So pretty quickly after that Id and John Carmack start talking about this big project that they're working on and it's a game that's gonna be called Doom.

而且我必须假设，无论你年龄多大，只要你在听这个节目，你应该都听说过《毁灭战士》，并在这些年里玩过它的某个版本。

And I have to assume, you know, almost no matter what age you are, if you're listening to this show, you've heard of Doom, played some version of it over the years.

但很容易忘记——我在做这项研究之前也有点忘了——这款游戏在当时是多么具有革命性。

But it's easy to forget and I had kinda forgotten until doing this research just how revolutionary this game was at the time.

它获得了

It got

那是第一款3D游戏吗？

Was it the first three d game?

是的，它就是第一款3D游戏。

It was the first three d game.

就像在《毁灭战士》之前，你知道的，游戏看起来都像是超级任天堂的风格，而《毁灭战士》是第一款这样的游戏，它的运行效果简直太疯狂了。

Like before Doom, you know, looked like a Super Nintendo style game and Doom was the first game and it ran this is crazy.

它能在普通的286、386英特尔PC上运行，并且基于DOS系统。

It ran on just these commodity two eighty six, three eighty six Intel PCs, and it ran on DOS.

但卡马克成功实现了全三维世界的渲染和运行。

But the Carmack was able to get a fully three d world rendered and working.

这真是计算机科学的惊人成就，因为这远远早于图形显卡或任何专门优化此类任务的硬件。

Just amazing feats of computer science because this well predates graphics cards or anything that's sort of optimized to do this.

这完全是令人难以置信的三角学和数学运算。

It's just like an unbelievable amount of trigonometry and math.

约翰·卡马克用了各种疯狂的编程技巧来实现这一切。

And and John Kaimerak used all sorts of crazy programming tricks to make this work.

游戏发布后，它就像当时的《堡垒之夜》，因为它也是通过共享软件分发的。

And so it comes out and like this becomes like the Fortnite of its day because it was also distributed via shareware.

但你说它是当时的《堡垒之夜》，让我们把这一点说清楚。

When you say the Fortnite of the day though, like, let's paint this clear.

在这个狭小且受限的视频游戏市场里，它完全垄断了整个市场。

For this tiny constrained market that was video games, it owned that market.

但我们与今天这个价值上千亿美元的电子游戏市场完全无法相提并论。

But we're nothing like the 100 plus billion dollar video game market of today.

没错。

No.

举个例子，你知道，截至现在，堡垒之夜已经有三亿五千万注册玩家。

I mean, for reference, you know, Fortnite has, 350,000,000 registered players at this time.

德军总部在最初那几年，无论是销售还是通过共享软件分发，总共才卖出了几百万份。

Doom ends up having a few million copies that it both sells and and distributes via shareware in those in those first couple years.

最终，它可能达到了一两千万份的销量，但此前从未有任何电子游戏接近过这样的数字。

Ultimately, think it would get to 10 or 20,000,000 copies, but no video game had ever approached anything like those numbers before.

所以蒂姆、Epic和马克心想，好吧，明白了。

So Tim and Epic and Mark are like, okay cool.

看来这就是行业未来的发展方向。

Well this is where the industry is going.

我们必须滑向冰球将要去的地方。

We gotta skate where the pucks go in here.

我们需要做一个类似的项目。

We need to work on a similar project.

于是他们就这么做了。

And so they do.

他们开始着手这个项目。

They start getting to work on the project.

他们打算把他们的三维射击游戏命名为《虚幻》。

They're gonna call their three d shooter unreal.

但问题是，他们很快发现，就像我们之前说的，约翰·卡马克为让《毁灭战士》运行起来所做的一切，都是极其了不起的工程成就，这构成了巨大的专有优势。

But the problem was, that they quickly find out is just like we were saying, the things that John Carmack did to make Doom run were just like huge feats of engineering and it was this massive proprietary advantage that it had.

因此，像蒂姆和Epic这样试图推出竞争产品的公司，几乎不可能成功。

So anybody like Tim and Epic that was trying to get a competing product out there, it was just gonna be nigh impossible.

但这并没有让蒂姆退缩。

But this doesn't deter Tim.

他开始思考一个点子。

He starts thinking about an idea.

他想，好吧，我知道id公司花了大量时间和精力来让Doom运行起来。

He's like, okay, well I know that id spent all this time and effort working to make Doom work.

他们还做了其他项目，你提到的Quake，就是他们推出的Doom的继任者。

They work on other projects and Ben you mentioned Quake, that would be the successor to Doom that they would come out with.

每次推出新游戏时，他们都在重新发明轮子。

They're rewriting the wheel each time they come out with a new game.

就像约翰为让Doom运行做了大量工作，但每次制作新游戏时，他们又得重新再造大量东西。

Like John did all this work to make Doom work but they have to recreate a whole lot of that each time they're making another game.

所以他们虽然有领先优势，但并不意味着能不断源源不断地推出一款接一款的游戏，而别人永远追不上。

So they have this lead but it's not like they're gonna keep just like churning out game after game after game and nobody else is gonna catch up.

我可以慢慢花时间，开发一个类似Doom那样的引擎。

I can take my time build a engine similar to, you know, what Doom has.

但如果我把它设计得更具扩展性，我就能用这个引擎内部快速产出大量内容，而不用每次都经历这些繁琐的流程。

But if I make it a little more extensible, then I can use this engine and pump out a bunch of content internally like and not have to go through all these hoops each time that it is having to go through.

所以他想，好吧，不错。

So he's like, okay, cool.

我们打算预先投入时间来做这件事。

We're gonna invest the time upfront to do this.

这里的类比有点像杰夫·贝索斯的说法。

That parallel here is in sort of Jeff Bezos speak.

也就是说，蒂姆正在开发一个使用原语（即基础构建模块）的系统，而不是每次都从零开始。

It's, Tim is working on a system that uses primitives, building blocks, rather than sort of starting from zero each time.

由于你是从原语开始构建，并组装那些模块化的构建块，每次都能在此基础上继续搭建，因此你投入的每项工作都能产生复合价值。

And because you sort of build from primitives and assemble building blocks that are sort of modular and you can build on top of each time, you sort of get compounding value out of each piece of work that you put in.

是的。

Yep.

于是他开始着手开发，并且对自己的工作毫不避讳。

So he starts working on it and he's not shy about what he's doing.

他试图为《虚幻》这款游戏造势，与游戏杂志等媒体进行交流。

He's trying to build hype for the game for Unreal, he's talking to game magazines and the like.

随后发生了一件相当不可思议的事情，其他开发者和工作室开始主动联系蒂姆和马克，表示：嘿，我听说你们正在开发这个引擎。

A pretty incredible thing happens, other developers start coming and studios start coming to Tim and Mark and saying, hey, I hear you're working on this engine.

我们也非常想制作3D类型的游戏，并与它以及《毁灭战士》竞争。

We would also love to make three d type games and compete with it and Doom.

你愿意将它授权给我们吗？

Would you be willing to license it to us?

蒂姆说，愿意。

And Tim says, yes.

哇哦。

Woah.

这是在《虚幻》发布之前吗？

And this is before they released Unreal?

你是说他当时如此大力宣传，以至于在《虚幻》游戏推出之前，虚幻引擎就已经有需求了？

Like that he was hyping this so much that they had demand for the Unreal Engine before Unreal came out?

是的。

Yes.

事实上，我认为一些由第三方使用虚幻引擎制作的首批游戏，在《虚幻》游戏本身推出后几个月或一年内就问世了。

In fact, I believe some of the first games that were made by third parties on the Unreal Engine came out within like a few months or a year of Unreal itself.

哦，天哪。

Oh wow.

疯狂。

Crazy.

是的，真的太疯狂了。

Yeah, totally crazy.

结果发现，这真是一个了不起的创意，因为这些行业动态不仅不会变得更容易，相反，开发视频游戏的技术门槛只会随着摩尔定律的推进而持续、指数级地攀升。

So it turns out this was a really big idea because these dynamics were not only not gonna get easier in the industry, the dynamics of the bar, the technical bar to build video games, That bar was just gonna keep going up and up and up and up exponentially in tandem with Moore's Law.

因此，如果没有像这样的工具系统，无论你多么优秀，都会迅速被彻底排除在游戏开发之外。

And so without a tooling system like this, you would quickly become completely locked out no matter how good you were of being able to actually build a game.

其中一个启示是，创建游戏引擎的时机简直完美，因为在那之前，你根本不可能创建游戏引擎。

One of the takeaways there is, like, the timing to create a game engine is so perfect because before that, you couldn't really create a game engine.

而那之后，你会落后太多，除非你是在为一个全新的技术范式开发游戏引擎，否则在蒂姆之后五到十年才开始开发基于PC的游戏引擎是愚蠢的。

And after that, you would be so woefully behind that you better be creating a game engine for, like, a whole new paradigm because it would be foolish to start building a PC based game engine five, ten years after Tim did.

没错。

Yep.

结果证明，情况比蒂姆在开始制作《吉尔之丛林》时所看到的要大得多。一个真正出色的工程师、游戏开发者或程序员，虽然能构建这样的引擎或其部分组件，但并不一定总能提出出色的创意故事或游戏设计。因此，如果没有类似这样的工具出现，创意人士就会被彻底排除在行业之外，或者只能被迫在那些拥有工程团队和创意团队的超大型公司里工作。

And it turned out, you know, almost like in a much bigger way than what Tim saw when he tried to do, started working on Jill of the Jungle, somebody who's a really, really great technical engineer, game developer, programmer who could build an engine or parts of an engine like this isn't necessarily always gonna be the right person that can have a great creative story idea, game design, you know, And so if something like this didn't start to exist, the creative people would just be totally locked out of the industry or would be relegated to working only within super big companies that had a engineering side of the house and a creative side of the house.

这说得通。

That makes sense.

听众们，我想暂停一下，我们一直提到蒂姆。

Now, listeners, I wanna pause for a moment and say, we keep saying Tim.

如今，Epic是一家拥有两千人的公司，当公司做决策时，说‘蒂姆’几乎已经成了习惯。

And, you know, today, Epic is like a 2,000 person company, and it's almost appropriate to say Tim when the company makes decisions today.

但在当时，这种情况尤其明显，因为那时公司员工还不到十五人。

It was especially true at this point because it was still less than, like, 15 people.

当时公司规模非常小，蒂姆完全主导着公司的战略决策，决定公司的发展方向和业务内容。

It was a very small operation going on here, and Tim was absolutely making these strategic decisions about what the company would be and what it would do.

是的。

Yeah.

而且这不仅仅是一个小团队，还是一个远程运作的团队。

And not only was it a small operation, it was a remote operation.

所以他们甚至都没有一起住在马里兰州。

So they didn't even all like live in Maryland together.

他们是通过早期的互联网技术进行沟通的。

They were communicating, via, you know, early, you know, early Internet technologies here.

最终，在经历了大约五年的开发后，1998年《虚幻》问世，同时虚幻引擎也正式向游戏开发者亮相。《虚幻》本身大获成功，基于它开发的游戏也同样如此。

So finally after just about five years of working on this in 1998 Unreal comes out and along with the official unveiling of the Unreal Engine for game developers and Unreal itself is a big hit but also games that are built on it.

所以像《杀出重围》这样的游戏——可能有人还记得——就使用了它。而在这一切推出后短短几年，游戏行业发生了一个重大变化：经过多年的讨论，微软终于在2001年携Xbox的发布进入了这个领域。

So games like Deus Ex which people might remember use it and then a few short years after all of this comes out there's a major change in the gaming industry which is after many years of talking about it, Microsoft finally enters the picture with the launch of the Xbox in 2001.

这确实带来了许多影响。

This does a whole bunch of stuff.

首先，它为游戏注入了巨大的影响力和市场营销力量。

You know, one, it inserts a huge, you know, amount of weight and marketing muscle behind gaming.

其次，由于这种营销力量的推动，它极大地扩展了游戏机市场。

Two, it massively expands the console market because of that marketing weight behind it.

而在此之前，市场主要只有初代PlayStation和任天堂64。

Which was previously just the original PlayStation and n n 64.

你知道，之前还有任天堂的其他版本，还有雅达利2600，但那时候真的只有PS1。

You know, you had previous versions of Nintendo before that and the the Atari 2,600, but you didn't have, like I mean, it was really just the PS one.

PS1和N64，还有Dreamcast，是微软进入主机市场之前仅有的几款主机。

Was the the PS one and the N64 are really the only and then the Dreamcast were the only predecessors before Microsoft entered that that console market.

确实如此。

Indeed.

但实际上，那是两个独立的市场，因为只有索尼和任天堂是真正有竞争力的玩家。

And and really though, it was it was two separate parts of the market because Sony and Nintendo were the only viable players.

所有第三方开发商都去了索尼那边。

Sony was where all the third party developers went.

任天堂对第三方开发商收取极其苛刻的版税，因为他们主要靠自家的第一方游戏来销售主机。

Nintendo had terrible onerous royalty terms with with third party developers because they really sold their systems based on their first party titles.

比如他们自己开发的马里奥和塞尔达这样的游戏。

Stuff that they were making in house like Mario and Zelda

任天堂的态度一直是我们既在技术上最出色，也在创意玩法上最出色。

and Nintendo's attitude has always been we're both the best at the technology and the best at the creative gameplay.

所以这些系统都是为我们游戏服务的。

And so the systems are for our games.

当然，如果你愿意让我们获得大部分利润，那你也可以为我们的系统开发游戏。

And sure, if you wanna let us have most of the economics, then you too can develop for our system.

但他们本质上是一家垂直整合的公司。

But they're mostly a vertically integrated company.

不过当微软进入市场时，他们突然开始与索尼争夺开发者。

When Microsoft came out though, now all of a sudden they're duking it out with Sony for developers.

所以作为开发者，一方面这是好事，因为现在有两家公司在竞争你的青睐，只要你做得好、有潜力做出优质内容，他们就会给你优厚的条件；但如果你想覆盖整个市场，你就希望你的游戏能同时登陆PlayStation和Xbox两个平台。

So as a developer on the one hand that's good because now you've got two companies competing for your favorite and willing to, if you're good and making, you know, have the promise of making good content, willing to give you good deals but really if you wanna access the whole market, you wanna have your title on both systems on the PlayStation and on the Xbox.

但如果你使用的是像Unreal这样的引擎，这几乎是不可能做到的。

Well, you're using an engine like Unreal, that's almost impossible to do.

你必须从零开始组建两套独立的开发团队。

You're gonna have to build from the Full ground dual development teams.

两套完整的独立开发团队。

Full dual development teams.

结果发现，这个问题现在虚幻引擎真的能够帮助解决，因为底层虽然不像简单地勾选一个框就能部署那么简单，但已经改善很多了。

Well, turns out that this is a problem that Unreal can now really help with and solve because they can have, you know, under the hood, it's not quite as easy as just like check a box to deploy to Turns out

没错，‘一次编写，到处运行’这个承诺被提过很多次，但真正成功的却一个都没有。

right once run anywhere has been promised many times and has been successful zero of them.

我的意思是，如今已经非常接近了，而且比以前好太多了。

I mean these days it's pretty close but it's so much better than

去跟一个 React Native 开发者说说看。

Tell that to a React Native developer.

即使如此，也比组建两支完全独立的开发团队要好得多。

It's so much better even then than having to have two full separate development teams.

一旦这种情况发生，就会有越来越多大型游戏和知名系列开始转向使用虚幻引擎开发。

So once this happens they start getting some really huge games and franchises start moving over to building on Unreal.

比如《汤姆·克兰西》系列的《细胞分裂》《彩虹六号》，还有《生化奇兵》《质量效应》《无主之地》，这些游戏都是在二十一世纪初到中期推出的。

So like the Tom Clancy games, Splinter Cell, Rainbow Six, those games, Bioshock, Mass Effect, Borderlands, these are all in the kinda early two thousands, early to mid two thousands.

它们开始转向使用虚幻引擎开发，然后能够迅速上架销售。

They're coming over building on Unreal and then being able to sell pretty quickly.

他们可能会与索尼或任天堂达成六个月的独家协议，或者让某个平台先发布，但之后他们就能进入其余市场，覆盖另一半。

They might do an exclusive with Sony or Nintendo for six months or whatever that platform gets first but then they're able to access the rest of the market and go to the other half.

对。

Right.

到这个时候，Epic 已经是一家科技公司了。

And so by this point, Epic is a technology company.

他们既开发游戏，也开发游戏引擎，而游戏引擎是游戏价值链中的关键组成部分。

Like, they make games and they they make this game engine, which is a huge component of the game's value chain.

但他们更像是一家科技公司，而不是以游戏开发为首要业务的公司。

But they're a technology company rather than a first and foremost game company.

因此，当你问蒂姆描述这段历史时，他提到我们有 Epic 1.0，那是 Potomac Computer Systems。

And so when you ask sort of Tim to describe the history, he described we have Epic one point o, which was Potomac Computer Systems.

我们有 Epic 2.0，那时我们意识到，哦，对，这是一家科技公司，它在开发游戏引擎。

We have Epic two point o, where we sort of realized that, oh, yeah, this this technology company builds a game engine.

这是上世纪九十年代末到大约2005年期间 PC 游戏的革命。

It's the the PC gaming sort of revolution of the late nineties to about 2,005.

而大卫，你刚才说的这些，正是他所说的Epic 3.0阶段，当时主机战争的迅猛发展让我们成为了一个中立的第三方，能够大幅降低游戏开发的成本并提升效率。

And then David, exactly what you're talking about now, this is what he calls Epic three point o, where the massive proliferation of the sort of console wars allowed us a neutral third party that can dramatically bring your cost down and your efficiency up in developing a game.

全力投入主机平台，我们将成为构建这一业务的关键部分。

Like, full steam ahead on consoles, we will be an essential part of building that business.

是的。

Yep.

他们也确实会内部继续开发一些游戏，但他们看待这种方式就像亚马逊和AWS那样。

And they do keep building some games in house as well but they're thinking about it kinda like Amazon and AWS.

他们自己是自己所开发引擎技术的首个也是最好的客户。

Like they're the first and best customer for the technology that they're building as part of the engine.

他们做了《虚幻竞技场》，做了《虚幻冠军赛》，还做了其他一些游戏，但他们真正关注的是

They do Unreal Tournament, they do Unreal Championship, they do other games, but they're really

我太喜欢这种东海岸风格的表述了。

I love how East Coast that just was.

你刚才说的是《虚幻竞技场》吗？

Did you say Unreal Tournament?

这就像东海岸人说‘锦标赛’的方式。

That is like that is like how an East Coaster says tournament.

天啊。

Oh my gosh.

你知道吗，我从来没注意过这一点。

You know, I never even like noticed that.

我小时候会说‘orange’。

Growing up, I would say orange.

珍妮教我怎么念‘orange’。

Jenny has taught me to say orange.

任天堂的角色是谁？

What's the Nintendo character?

马里奥。

Mario.

好的。

Alright.

就是这样。

There you go.

我有一些纽约的朋友说Mario。

I've got some New York friends that say Mario.

啊，是的。

Ah, yeah.

对。

Yeah.

总之，我们跑题了。

Anyway, I we we digress.

我们跑题了。

We digress.

不过这是恰当的跑题。

Appropriate digressions though.

所以到了2000年代中期，正如我们所说，由于种种原因，游戏市场的主要部分集中在主机上，特别是索尼和微软的PlayStation和Xbox。

So by the mid two thousands, like we're saying, for a bunch of reasons, the big part of the gaming market is really in consoles and specifically it's in Sony and Microsoft with the PlayStation and the Xbox.

尽管PC游戏产业仍然存在，但变得非常艰难，因为盗版问题日益严重，更不用说微软现在将所有游戏资源都集中在Xbox上，而不是PC游戏。

And the PC gaming industry still exists but it's gotten really tough because piracy has become rampant, not to mention, you know, Microsoft is now putting all of their weight in gaming behind the Xbox, not so much on PC gaming.

因此，蒂姆再次意识到这是大势所趋，于是决定：嘿，不如我们和微软合作？

So Tim once again kinda sees that this is where things are going and decides, hey, you know, what if we tie up with Microsoft?

我们即将推出虚幻引擎3.0的新版本。

We're gonna be launching a new version of the Unreal Engine three point zero.

微软当时正要推出他们的下一代硬件Xbox 360，没错。

Microsoft is coming out with their next generation hardware the Xbox three At the time, yep.

如果我们能成为Xbox 360的首发或接近首发独占游戏，或许能从他们那里获得不少营销资金。

And we might be able to get some really good marketing dollars here

在这种合作关系中，微软实际上是发行商，而Epic是开发商？

from them if we're a launch or near launch exclusive title with the three sixty.

是的。

And Microsoft's effectively in this relationship the publisher and Epic is the developer?

对。

Yes.

是的，没错。

Believe that is correct.

因此，Epic开发了一款名为《战争机器》的游戏，大多数听众可能都熟悉这款游戏。

And so Epic develops this game called Gears of War, which most listeners will probably be familiar with.

成为

Becomes

这款游戏的特点是你只需按一个按钮，就能让角色背靠墙壁并探头查看拐角。

It's the game where you could push that one button and put your back against a wall and look around a corner.

对。

Yep.

所以很有趣的是，很多游戏都有这种标志性的动作，大家都觉得这太棒了。

So it's so funny how so many games had this like signature move and they like that was amazing.

每个广告、每个演示都展示这个动作，你第一次玩这款游戏时，最想尝试的就是这个动作。

That was in every commercial, that was in every demo, and you first played the game like that is the thing that you wanted to try and do.

这款游戏卖出了大量的Xbox 360，对。

And this thing sold so many Xbox three sixties like Yep.

因此，由于这一切，这实际上成了公司的误导性因素。

And so as a result of all of this, the thing is this this kind of becomes a red herring for the company.

所以最终，Epic 通过《战争机器》赚取了1亿美元的收入。

So they end up making Epic ends up making a 100,000,000 of revenue on Gears of War.

他们的开发成本是1200万美元，我认为这1200万美元涵盖了开发和营销费用，因为微软承担了大部分营销预算。

It cost them $12,000,000 and I believe that's 12,000,000 across development and marketing because Microsoft was handling so much of the marketing budget.

所以

And so

哇哦。

Wow.

我随时愿意打这个赌。

I'll make that bet all day.

当然。

Totally.

所以他们实际上在1亿美元的收入上实现了88%的利润率。

So they're literally making 88% margin on a $100,000,000 in revenue.

你知道吗，到目前为止，他们在技术和游戏方面都已经取得了成功，但这次完全是另一个层次。

You know, they had been successful in lots of dimensions up to this point both on the technology and the game side, but this is a whole another level.

为什么非要自己当发行商呢？

Why ever be your own publisher?

我的意思是，如果你是开发商，这当然很棒。

I mean, it's it's great if you're the developer.

别人会花钱，你只需要开发游戏就行了。

You only someone else is gonna spend the money.

你只需要开发游戏。

You just have to develop the game.

这太棒了。

It's great.

为什么要改变呢？

Like, why ever change?

我的意思是，我记得当时我刚大学毕业，正要进入媒体投资银行领域，那时人们都在想，天啊，游戏就要像好莱坞一样了。

I mean, I remember I was just coming into graduating college and getting into media investment banking at the time and people were thinking like, Oh man, games are gonna be like Hollywood.

这可是好莱坞电影级别的资金投入。

Like this is Hollywood movie style money.

这里的运作模式非常相似。

The dynamics are really similar here.

这将会很棒。

This is gonna be great.

但事实证明，好莱坞其实并不是一个好做的生意和行业。

It turns out though that Hollywood is actually not that good of a business and an industry.

那为什么会这样呢？

And and why is that?

这是一个资本密集型的行业。

It's super capital intensive.

《战争机器》第一代在很多方面其实是个误导。

So Gears of War one was kind of a red herring for a bunch of reasons.

你知道，它是三月的首发游戏。

You know, it was a launch title with March.

微软负责了大部分的宣传和营销工作。

Microsoft handled so much of the promotion and marketing.

当Epic制作《战争机器2》和《战争机器3》时，他们的经济状况变得很糟糕——游戏销量大致相同，收入可能略低，但利润率却大幅下降至30%到40%，他们不得不将大量资本投入到游戏开发和营销中。

When Epic ends up doing Gears of War two and then Gears of War three, their economics like the games sell roughly the same amount, maybe not quite as much in terms of revenue but their margins end up shrinking significantly down to like 3040% and they're having to tie up all this huge amount of capital in the investments in developing these games and then marketing them.

于是蒂姆和埃文逐渐意识到，这并不像我们当初想象的那么有趣。

And so Tim and and Evan kinda realized like, this is not as interesting as we thought it was.

是时候退出了。

Time to get out.

这也开始暴露出这种开发者与发行商模式之间的紧张关系。

It also, started to show the tension between this sort of, developer publisher model.

对于那些没听过EA那一期，或者我们在动视暴雪那一期中讨论过这个话题的人，我再提一下。

And for folks who haven't listened to the EA episode or where else, we talked about this on the Activision Blizzard episode.

开发者就是创意的核心。

You know, the developer is the creative.

你可以把它想象成电影拍摄现场的导演，你才是那些精彩点子的提出者和执行者。

It's almost like think about it as the director on down on a movie set, where you're you're the one sort of having the brilliant ideas and executing on them.

而发行商是投资者。

And the publisher is the investor.

他们垫付资金。

They're sort of fronting the money.

他们负责市场营销。

They're doing the marketing.

他们懂得如何将你的创意转化为商业运作。

They know how to businessify your creative efforts.

所以当真正面临抉择时——就像当时的情况那样——问题出现了，那是什么来着？

And so the issue is when push comes to shove like it did with what was it?

我认为在《战争机器》三之后，Epic 想要做一个仅含多人模式的版本。

Gears of War I think after maybe Gears of War three, Epic wanted to do a multiplayer only version.

他们说：看。

They said, look.

我们认为多人游戏才是未来。

We think multiplayer gaming is the future.

暗示一下，你知道，或者说轻轻推一把，让他们走到今天这一步。

Hint hint, you know, or or nudge nudge to where they are today.

而在线游戏，你知道，即将成为主流，开始崭露头角。

And online is, you know, right around the corner starting to become a thing.

所以微软当时的反应是，

And so Microsoft was like,

不，我们不在乎。

no, we don't care.

我们想多卖些Xbox 360游戏。

We wanna move more 360s.

所以当时基本上陷入了僵局，而微软是发行商。

And so it was basically a stalemate at that point and Microsoft was the publisher.

微软是背后的金主。

Microsoft was the money behind it.

所以，你知道的，他们赢了。

And so, you know, they won.

所以我们现在大概是在2010年2月左右的时间点。

So we're now right around like 02/2010 timeframe.

蒂姆有一句名言。

And Tim has a quote.

他说，人们越来越意识到旧模式已经行不通了，而新模式看起来越来越像是正确的方向。

He says, there was an increasing realization that the old model wasn't working anymore and the new model was looking increasingly like the way to go.

那么新模式是什么呢？

So what is the new model?

所以就在这个时候，发生了两件事，为Epic今天的成就奠定了坚实的基础。

So two things happened right around this time that totally lay the groundwork for what Epic is today.

第一件事是2009年10月，洛杉矶的一家小公司，一家初创公司，推出了一款游戏——如果你能称之为游戏的话。

The first is in October 2009, A little company in LA, a startup in LA launches a game, if you could call it that.

它实际上是一个现有游戏的模组的模组。

It's really a mod on a mod of an existing game.

这是《半条命2》的模组吗？

This is a mod of Half Life two?

不是。

No.

不是。

No.

不是。

No.

我指的是《英雄联盟》。

I'm talking about League.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

对。

Yeah.

好。

Yeah.

《魔兽争霸三》的模组是移动在线战斗竞技场游戏DOTA，还是叫《保卫远古》？

The mod of Warcraft three is the mobile online battle arena game of DOTA, or was it Defense of the Ancients?

是的

Yep.

当然，关于这是创意剽窃还是属于合理借鉴，存在很多争议。

And, of course, there's a lot of controversy over if this is idea theft or if this is above bar.

但你提到的这款游戏，大卫，是由一家位于洛杉矶的充满干劲的初创公司在2009年推出的，它的外观非常相似。

But you have this very similar looking game that I think you're referring to, David, being started by a plucky startup in LA in 2009.

是的

Yep.

这家公司是Riot Games，这款游戏就是《英雄联盟》。

And that company is Riot Games and that game is League of Legends.

那么，《英雄联盟》到底是什么？

And so what is League?

它是一款MOBA，也就是大型多人在线战术竞技游戏，但它实际上代表了一条完全不同的路径，一种回归小型精干开发团队、专注于打磨概念、无需投入大量开发资源和尤其巨额营销资源的反好莱坞化趋势。

I mean, it's it's a MOBA, a massively online battle arena, but it really represents a completely orthogonal path and kind of a throwback away from this Hollywood ification of the games industry and back to small lean development teams taking a concept and iterating on it without having to invest, you know, tons and tons of development resources and in particular tons of marketing resources.

它完全通过线上分发。

It's distributed a 100% online.

它是基于一个已有的游戏引擎做的模组。

It's a mod of an existing game engine that's out there.

抄袭。

Rip off.

我没这么说，但这意味着它能更快地进入市场。另一个重大创新是，他们不收费。

I didn't say that but it means that it can get to market so much faster and then the other big innovation that they have is they don't charge for it.

它是完全免费游玩的。

It's it's free, free to play.

现在，‘免费游玩’这个术语在行业内名声很差，因为移动游戏采用了这种模式，所谓的免费游玩其实意味着，是的，你可以免费玩，但如果你想取得进展或获胜，你就得花钱。

Now free to play, that term had gotten a really bad name in the industry because mobile games had taken that up and free to play really meant, yeah, you could play it for free, but if you wanted to make any progress in the game or win, you'd have to.

当时这刚刚开始。

And and this was just starting.

我的意思是，在2012到2014年期间，它名声很差。

I mean, that it got a really bad name in sort of that 2012 to 2014 era.

在那个时代，想想看，iPhone是2007年推出的，App Store是2008年推出的，所以它当时还谈不上是肮脏的边缘领域，而是社交游戏先给它抹了黑——Facebook上的免费游玩模式就

In this era because think of it, the iPhone was 2007, the App Store was 2008, so it wasn't quite the sort of dirty backwater, social had given it a bad name before mobile gave So it a bad the free to play stuff on Facebook was

它就像是Zynga那种类型的东西，而Zynga呢，可能从很多方面来说都不是这方面最恶劣的违规者，但你知道，所有那些你必须付费才能取得进展的游戏。

It was, you know, Zynga type stuff and Zynga was, well probably in many ways not the worst offender in this regard but you know all of the games that you had to pay to make any progress in.

《英雄联盟》以及Riot的重大创新在于，你可以购买物品，但它们仅仅是外观性的。

What League was and what Riot's big innovation was that you could buy things but they were just aesthetic.

它们只是虚拟商品。

They were just virtual goods.

它们实际上以任何方式、形式或形态都不会帮助你在游戏中取得成功。

They didn't actually help you succeed in the game in any way shape or form.

它们只是赋予了你个性。

They just gave you personality.

是的。

Yeah.

所以它仍然是免费制胜，但你可以为其他东西付费。

So it was still free to win but you could pay for other things.

没错。

Yep.

这最终被称为游戏即服务，我们稍后会详细讨论。

And this ends up coming to be known as games as a service which we'll get into in a second.

另一件重大事件是，Epic 在2010年9月的苹果新品发布会上现场演示了Unreal Engine 3在iOS上的运行。

The other big thing that happens that Epic was directly a part of was in September 2010, Epic demoed on stage at an Apple keynote, a demo of the Unreal Engine three running on iOS.

哦，对了。

Oh, that's right.

我忘了这件事。

I forgot about that.

这实际上开启了苹果发布会中那些冗长而分散注意力的游戏演示的先河。

And that actually was the beginning of these like really long distracting demos at Apple keynotes of games.

每当他们展示新的图形技术时，你却是在流媒体上观看，根本不确定新功能到底是什么。

Where every time they're showing off some new graphics technology, but you're watching it over some stream, and you're actually not sure what the new thing is.

所以你会想，好吧，他们在展示。

And so you're like, okay, they're showing off.

好吧。

Okay.

这次是Metal，这是苹果自家的技术，克雷格对此非常兴奋。

This time it's metal and it's an Apple in house technology, and Craig's all excited about it.

但好吧。

But okay.

很好。

Good.

我很高兴有其他人做出了另一款利用了我不懂的硬件功能的精彩游戏。

I'm glad glad someone else made another cool game that takes advantage of some hardware feature I don't understand.

我一直对苹果发布会中这些内容有意见，但我明白这确实是一个重大突破。

I always have beef with those being Apple keynotes, but I get that it was a leap forward.

这确实是一个重大突破，因为首先，你可以将令人惊叹的主机级图形和游戏技术带到移动设备上，但对行业而言更重要的是，它推动了跨平台部署与开发，最终实现了网络游戏的实现。

Well, was a leap forward because A, you could bring this incredible console quality graphics and gaming technology to mobile but it was even more important for the industry in terms of enabling cross platform deploying and development and then ultimately online play of games.

因此，Epic现在正处在这一切的中心，因为如果你有一个像《英雄联盟》这样的游戏即服务，或者任何其他免费游玩类型的游戏。

So Epic now is right in the middle of all of this because if you have a game as a service like League of Legends or any other you know free to win type game.

重要的是，这完全是通过数字方式分发的。

Importantly, that's fully distributed digitally.

所以，现在已经没有盒装软件了。

So you don't there's no more box software.

它现在都是通过互联网分发的。

It is being distributed over the internet.

是的。

Yep.

你希望让更多玩家、在更多平台上玩到这款游戏。

You wanna get that in the hands of as many players on as many platforms as possible.

游戏开发者一直希望做到这一点。

Game developers always wanted to do this.

他们希望自己的游戏能登陆微软和索尼的平台，但最终他们还是在卖盒装软件，这也没问题。

They wanted to be on Microsoft and on Sony but at the end of the day they're selling box software and like that's fine.

但当你不再销售盒装软件，而是基于玩家的参与度来盈利时，扩大玩家总数就变得至关重要。

But when you're no longer selling box software you're monetizing based on engagement of players, maximizing your total pool of players is really important.

到目前为止，以及未来，能够玩游戏的计算设备中，绝大多数都是移动设备，对吧？

And what are the by far at this point and then going forward, the vast number of computing devices capable of playing games out there, they're mobile devices?

是的。

Yeah.

所以，游戏的可触及市场规模，其设备数量可能增加了10倍，甚至更多。

So it's it's the number of devices got multiplied by, I don't know, 10 for the the sort of accessible market of games or maybe more.

但重要的是，我认为与你提出的论点——即与客户建立更直接的关系并希望触达尽可能多的客户——真正相关的另一点是，这些设备现在都连接着互联网。

But importantly, and I think the other thing that is really relevant to this argument that you're making about having a more direct relationship with those customers and wanting to reach as many customers as possible is they're now all on Internet connected devices.

因此，你不再只有每次向商店发售新光盘、顾客购买时才能盈利的机会，而是只要支付系统到位，你在任何时刻都有机会实现盈利。

So rather than your only chance to monetize being every time you ship a new disc to a store and they buy it, you have an opportunity at any given moment to monetize as long as there's payment systems in place.

数字分发本质上实现的是这样一种理念：回到让Epic成为Epic的起点，他们可以免费提供某些东西。

The thing that digital distribution basically enabled was the idea that going back to the very beginning of what made Epic Epic, that they could give something away for free.

但由于你与客户保持着持续的在线关系，你可以在后续阶段找到盈利的方式。

But then since you had an always on relationship with that customer, you could figure out your monetization down the line.

这对行业的影响是，它让游戏行业变得有点像SaaS（软件即服务）行业。

What this does to the industry is it kind of makes it like the SaaS industry.

你知道，过去是从开发成本高昂、需要多年开发时间、庞大且单一的大型软件（比如Oracle、很多微软软件，或者那种类型的东西）转变过来，突然间，就像软件开发者一样，游戏开发者也被赋能去做一些解决特定小众问题的小型功能，并将其部署在像AWS这样的顶级基础设施上，使用类似Stripe的工具来接受支付。

You know, you'd gone from expensive to develop capitalized software that required years of development time and was big and monolithic, you know, your Oracle or your a lot of Microsoft software or your, you know, that type of thing to all of a sudden, you know, developers just like software developers are empowered to do small little things that solve a point, you know, niche problem, deploy it on best in class infrastructure like AWS out there, use something like Stripe to accept payments.

我们难道不希望这样吗？

Don't we wish?

是啊，我们难道不希望这样吗？

Yeah, don't we wish?

把它推向市场，被用户使用，并建立起经济效益良好的真正业务。

Get it out there and be used and build real businesses with great economics.

所以同样的事情开始在游戏行业发生，当然，谁是这一切的先驱，并且身处其中，不仅自己做，还与拳头游戏合作，那就是腾讯。

So the same thing starts to happen in the gaming industry and of course who was the pioneer in doing all of this and in the middle of all of it, not just on their own, but then with Riot, it's Tencent.

是的。

Yep.

对。

Yeah.

我的意思是，这真的很有趣，因为Riot在美国正在开创这种做法。

I mean, this is really interesting because Riot is pioneering this in The United States.

腾讯其实已经在中国早期的游戏中通过微交易功能做到了这一点，他们在这方面确实走在了前面。

Tencent had already sort of done it with the, the ability to do micro transactions on on their early games in China, something that they were definitely ahead on.

一旦Riot在很早的时候就开始取得成功，我认为是在2011年之前，也许是2010年，腾讯就投资了Riot。

And as soon as Riot started to succeed in it very early, I think it was pre 2011, maybe maybe 2010, Tencent invested in Riot.

一旦腾讯看到Riot在西方成功运用了这种模式，他们首先在2010年投资了Riot，然后在2011年收购了这家公司。

Once Tencent saw Riot succeeding with this model in the West, they first invested in Riot, I think in 2010, and then they bought the company in 2011.

所以蒂姆看到了这一切的发展，他希望将Epic推向成为类似AWS加Stripe的平台，赋能这一未来的复兴，支持独立创作者和游戏开发者。

So Tim sees all this going on and he wants to move Epic in the direction of becoming essentially the, you know, AWS plus Stripe enabling this future, you know, renaissance and independent creators and game developers.

而他们目前的业务状况是，他们已经将《战争机器》整个系列、所有知识产权全部卖给了微软。

And the current state of their business sort of they had sold Gears of War, the full franchise, all the IP, everything to Microsoft.

还没完全卖完。

Not not quite yet.

好吧。

Okay.

他首先开始与腾讯接触，并在2012年首次同意出售Epic Games的股权。

First he starts talking to Tencent and agrees in 2012 for the first time ever to sell any equity in Epic Games.

他将Epic的40%股份以3.3亿美元的价格出售给了腾讯。

He sells a 40% stake in Epic to Tencent for $330,000,000.

所以当时估值接近10亿美元，这在当时简直疯狂。

So valuing Epic at just under $1,000,000,000 which was kinda crazy at the time.

人们都说，这太离谱了。

People were like, this is nuts.

这是一家视频游戏技术开发商，其主打游戏《战争机器》的经济效益并不好。

This is a, you know, video game technology developer that, you know, is having bad economics with their big franchise Gears of War.

这到底是怎么回事？

Like, what's going on here?

我认为当时人们没有意识到的是，即使抛开游戏即服务的布局，平台业务本身有多么稳定。

And I think the thing that people didn't realize at the time was, even ignoring the games as a service bet, how stable the platform business was.

我想稍后在《 playbook 》中提到的一点，但现在我们必须谈一下：传统上，游戏行业是一个依赖爆款的行业，而虚幻引擎则让这种波动变得更平滑。

Like, one of the things that I wanna mention later in Playbook, but we need to talk about now is gaming is classically a hits driven business, and what you have with the Unreal Engine is a smoother on that.

而且，自虚幻引擎诞生以来，这项业务一直稳步增长，如今你拥有一个庞大而稳定的业务作为基础，支撑着你那些波动较大的爆款游戏业务。

And since more and more I mean, that business has just grown steadily since its inception, and you now have this massive steady business underneath your more spiky hits driven games business.

是的。

Yep.

通过腾讯的这笔投资，蒂姆仍然保持对公司的控股权，他说：‘好吧，我们要把整个公司重新聚焦在这个未来的愿景上。’

So with this investment from Tencent, Tim maintains majority control of the company and he says, all right we're gonna refocus the entire company around this vision of the future.

我们要做三件事。

We're gonna do three things.

第一，虚幻引擎现在是我们最重要产品和技术，我们需要为其增添更多功能。

One, the Unreal Engine is now our most important product and piece of technology and we need to add much more to it.

它不再仅仅是用于制作游戏的引擎，还需要涵盖运行这些游戏、进行实时运营、支付以及其他所有功能的基础设施。

It's not gonna be just about the engine for creating the game, it needs to be all the infrastructure to run these games and run live ops and do payments and do all of these things.

有趣的是，当时我在马德罗纳公司时，我们曾作为风投投资了一家名为PlayFab的西雅图初创公司，它有着与我们相同的愿景：要构建一个用于运营游戏即服务的基础设施层，就像虚幻引擎或我们的竞争对手Unity那样——我们之前还没提到过Unity。

Funny aside at the time I was actually when, when I was at Madrona, we were venture investors in a company called PlayFab in Seattle 0, which was an independent startup that had the same vision of we're gonna build the infrastructure layer for operating these games as a service and be like Unreal or be like Unity, their competitor which we haven't mentioned yet.

结果PlayFab最终被微软收购了。

It just turned out PlayFab ended up getting acquired by Microsoft.

结果发现，Epic和Unity自己也会做这些事情，而且都会成为平台的一部分。

It turned out that Epic and Unity were gonna do these things themselves as well and it was gonna all be part of the platform.

是的。

Yeah.

当时行业内确实有猜测，认为这些功能可能不会真正成为游戏引擎的一部分，它们更像是可独立分离的东西。

And there definitely was industry speculation at that point that those things would be not really part of game engines, that they were sort of a separate factorable thing.

我们稍后会讨论这个，但Epic现在确实有Epic在线服务。

We'll talk about this, but Epic has Epic Online Services today.

有很多东西处于那种中间地带，比如，它到底是引擎的一部分，还是更偏向于在线服务的一部分？

There's a lot that sort of lives in that middle ground of like, is it part of the engine or is it really more part of an online service?

但Epic显然不仅拥有与开发者的关系，还有能力捆绑那些过去可能不被视为引擎一部分的东西，并且不断地往这个‘线团’里添加更多内容，使得它不再仅仅是物理引擎，而是包含了物理、角色、AI、它们的交互方式，以及各种有助于游戏实时运营的功能。

But Epic obviously had not only the relationships with developers, but the ability to bundle things that might not have used to be considered part of an engine, but sort of add more and more and more to that sort of ball of yarn where it was no longer just physics, but it was physics and characters and AI and the way that they'd interact and all sorts of, things to help with the live ops of your game.

是的。

Yep.

所以这是第一点。

So that was one.

第二点，正如蒂姆所说，我们要合理化主机业务。

Two, as Tim says, we're gonna rationalize the console business.

我不想再涉足那个领域了。

I don't wanna be in that anymore.

我们要将《战争机器》系列出售给微软。

We're gonna sell the Gears of War franchise to Microsoft.

他们在2014年初完成了这一交易。

So they do that in early twenty fourteen.

腾讯的投资是在2012年底左右进行的。

The Tencent investment was in like late twenty twelve.

第三，为了使这一切顺利运行，我们需要让成千上万的创作者、开发者和游戏制作人在Unreal平台上开发。

And then three, to make all this work, we need to have a thousand flowers blooming out there of people developing on the creators and developers and game makers developing on the Unreal platform.

我们不能再对使用我们平台的人收取SaaS费用了，因为这会把那些在游戏开发活动中制作游戏的高中生拒之门外。

Well, we can't anymore be charging people a SaaS fee to use our platform because that's gonna lock out the kids in high school who are building stuff at game jams and

没错，激励措施非常有效。

Right, incentives are powerful.

如果你对某件事收费，就会有更少的人去做。

If you charge money for something less people will do it.

是的，2015年3月，这在当时远远领先于行业潮流。

Yep, so in March 2015 and this was like super ahead of the curve.

Epic停止对Unreal引擎收取授权费，使其完全免费供使用和开发。

Epic stops charging a licensing fee for the Unreal Engine, makes it completely free to use and develop on.

记住，Unity也在那里，它是一个竞争性的第三方游戏引擎。

And remember, you know, Unity is out there as well which is a competing third party game engine.

主要专注于移动平台。

Mostly focused on mobile.

主要专注于

Mostly focused

移动平台，但你可以用它来做很多其他事情。

on mobile but you could use it for lots of things.

当然。

For sure.

但它更简单、更新颖，非常适合2D内容，更轻量、更易上手，但你不可能用它来开发最出色的3D第一人称射击PC游戏。

But simpler, newer, amazing for two d stuff, lighter, more accessible, but you're not gonna go build the most amazing three d, first person shooter PC game with it.

用Unity？

On Unity?

不。

No.

他们仍然收取SaaS费用。

They're still charging a SaaS fee.

现在Unreal完全免费了。

Unreal now is completely free.

你实际上可以免费获得《战争机器》所使用的开发工具。

You're getting like this literally the stuff that Gears of War is developed on for free.

而商业模式改为在你发布游戏后获得的收入中抽取5%的版税。

And instead the business model is switched to a 5% royalty on revenue that you would earn on your games after publishing.

这真是个相当不错的条件。

Now that's like a pretty good deal.

我的意思是，如果你想想为此需要资本化的固定成本，那将会非常巨大。

I mean, if you think about the amount of fixed cost you'd have to capitalize to do this, it would just be huge.

即使你维持技术运行的持续运营成本，也会超过你收入的5%。

Even your ongoing operating cost to run technology, it would be more than 5% of your revenue.

完全正确。

Totally.

现在除非你是巨头，否则自己开发游戏引擎比使用Unreal更不合算，这正是他们的策略。

You'd have to be massive for it to make more sense for you to build your own game engine now than use use Unreal, which is exactly the strategy.

当你看看哪些公司开发自己的专有游戏引擎时，只有像动视暴雪、Riot Games这样的大型发行商才这么做。

And when you look at who develops their own proprietary game engines, it's only the Activision Blizzard of the world, the, you know, Riot Games, but very large publishers that you know of.

比如蓝洞公司开发的《绝地求生》，当然我们稍后一定会谈到它。

So, like, think Blue Hole for, PlayerUnknown's Battleground, which, of course, we will definitely talk about later.

很多大型跨平台3D游戏工作室，虽然规模不如动视暴雪或Riot，但也选择使用Unreal，而不是开发自己的专有引擎。

Like, lots of big cross platform three d games from big studios that just aren't quite as big as like Activision Blizzard or Riot use Unreal instead of developing their own proprietary thing.

没错。

Yep.

因此，在腾讯投资之后，Epic的这三大举措都非常精准，真正帮助他们成为行业中的AWS加Stripe加更多服务。

So those are the three big moves that Epic makes after the Tencent investment and they are all just like so spot on and like really enable them to become, you know, the AWS plus Stripe plus plus plus plus, in the industry.

Stripe这个类比还不太贴切。

Stripe doesn't feel right yet.

对我来说，Stripe就像是Epic游戏商城。

Like Stripe to me would be like the Epic Games Store.

是的。

Yes.

嗯，还有更多像……

Well, there's more like

为这一切打下了基础。

groundwork for all that.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

所以，好吧。

Like so okay.

用蒂姆的说法，Epic 3.0就是主机平台。

To to put it in Tim's parlance, Epic three point o was consoles.

Epic 4.0 是免费游戏即服务，数字发行。

Epic four point o is free to play games as a service, digital distribution.

但大卫，你刚才谈到的正是这一点，就像是极其强大的基础组件，作为制作游戏的水平层。

But exactly what you're talking about, David, is this is, like, incredibly robust primitives that serve as the horizontal layer to make games.

因此他们已从'我们是游戏开发者'的定位中退后一步，除了……

And so they've stepped back from, we're a game maker except.

除了……

Except.

好的。

Okay.

不过就像亚马逊一样，你知道，他们仍然持有这种观点，认为我们可以成为内部的首选和最佳客户，来展示这些工具的潜力。

So just like Amazon though, you know, they still have this view of like, well, we can be the internal kind of first and best customer to show what's possible with these tools.

你知道，我们拥有制作深受玩家喜爱的优秀游戏的悠久历史。

You know, we have this rich history of making great games that people love.

所以他们决定在内部组建三个团队，开始开发Epic的新工具，用以制作Epic的新游戏，这些游戏将采用'游戏即服务、免费制、赢利模式'来运营。

So they decide that they're gonna spin up three teams internally to start working on Epic's new tools, to build new games, from Epic that are gonna run on this games as a service free to win model.

他们开始开发的第一个项目是《虚幻竞技场》的重制版。

So the first that they start working on is a reboot of Unreal Tournament.

第二个是一个MOBA游戏，融合了《战争机器》风格的动作元素，名为《帕拉贡》。

The second is a MOBA that's gonna include Gears of War style kinda action elements that was called Paragon.

第三个将是全新的IP，结合了《我的世界》式的建造元素和塔防类型的动态玩法。

And the third was gonna be a whole brand new IP that was gonna combine elements of Minecraft and crafting with a tower defense type, dynamic.

这些游戏在当时非常流行，而且他们为这个项目取了一个很酷的名字。

Those games were popular at that moment in time, and, they had a really cool name for it.

他们打算把它命名为《堡垒之夜》。

They were gonna call it Fortnite.

我的理解是，我们刚拿到3.3亿美元，接下来肯定要大手笔花掉它。

Well, we just got $330,000,000 and boy, are we gonna spend it is the way that I hear that.

是的。

Yep.

所以剧透一下，就像很多公司拿到3.3亿美元后，虽然核心业务是公司的经济引擎，但其他项目往往不太顺利。

Well, so spoiler alert, just like a lot of times when a company gets $330,000,000 and has, the core, you know, economic engine of the company, but then they have other projects that they wanna work on, those other projects don't go so well.

所以这三个游戏都没成功

So none of those three games work

完全没成功。

at all.

是的。

Yeah.

而且如果你。

And if you yeah.

你说这三个都没成功，这很有趣。

It's interesting you say none of the three.

我很期待聊聊这个。

I'm excited to talk about that.

对。

Yes.

这里另一个需要考虑的是，这是一家具有自力更生文化的企业。

The other sort of thing to think about here is, this is a company with a bootstrapped culture.

他们一直资源匮乏。

They'd always been starved for resources.

他们的人手一直很少。

They'd always been few people.

他们一直巧妙地摸索着，该找哪个合作伙伴，或者以什么方式，你知道的，只有当我们确信这款游戏值得做时，才去开发。

They'd always been cleverly figuring out what's the right partner or what's the right way that, you know, we can only make a game when we're sure that it's gonna be worth it for us.

而现在，他们拥有了如此多的资源。

And now they they've got so many resources.

我的意思是，这正是我们在Eventbrite那一期与朱莉娅和凯文讨论过的内容。

I mean, this is exactly what we talked about on the Eventbrite episode with Julia and Kevin.

比如，筹集一大笔资金后，会有许多看似不错的资本投入方式，因为你能想象出它们为什么合理。

Like, raise a bunch of money and there's lots of things that seem like good ways to deploy that capital, because you can sort of conceptualize why it'll make sense.

但随后你就变成了一个庞大的组织。

But then you become this like large organization.

存在着一些分歧，我不想称之为内斗，但大家对未来该何去何从看法不一。

There's I don't wanna call it infighting, but conflicting views about what the future should be.

有些人正在争夺话语权，说不。

There's people who are sort of vying for political power that's saying, you know, no.

我的游戏才是最重要的。

My game's the most important game.

这导致了人员流动，事实上，这在整个Epic的历史中都发生过，他们收购了一些公司，有的成功了，有的没有。

And it results in churn, and it results in this happened basically all through Epic's history, they bought companies, some worked, some didn't.

他们引入了这些工作室。

They bring in these studios.

有时他们会把这些收购项目注销掉。

Sometimes they'd they'd end up writing them off.

这加剧了那种试图做大量事情时的狂热和流动。

It just increases all of that sort of fervor and churn around trying to do a bunch of stuff.

是的。

Yep.

别忘了，Epic和蒂姆真正擅长的是什么？

And remember, what was Epic and Tim really really good at?

他擅长观察当时市场上正在成功的东西，稍作调整使其焕然一新，然后迅速推向市场。

He was good at looking at what was succeeding in the market at that given moment in time, remixing it a little bit to make it fresh and then putting it back out there quickly.

你知道，他用ZZT就是这样做的，用《吉尔在丛林中》也是这样，用《虚幻》在《毁灭战士》之后也是这样，但他们在当前这三个项目上却没这么做。

You know, that's what he did with ZZT, that's what he did with Jill in the Jungle, that's what Unreal was after Doom and that's not what they're doing with these three projects here.

目前还不清楚市场是否真的需要它们。

It's unclear that the market really wants them.

因此，他们为每个游戏都投入了数年时间进行开发。

So they operate for years in development of each of these games.

它们始于2011年、2012年。

So started in 2011, 2012.

是的。

Yep.

一直持续到2017年，然后奇迹发生了。

And going all the way through 2017 and then basically a miracle happens.

你提到过《绝地求生》。

So you mentioned Player Unknown's Battlegrounds.

给我们讲讲《绝地求生》吧。

Tell us a little bit about Player Unknown Battlegrounds.

是的。

Yeah.

让我们倒回到1999年。

So rewind to 1999.

有一本在日本出版的书，名叫《大逃杀》，至少这是它的英文译名。

There is a book released in Japan called Battle Royale, or at least that's the English translation of it.

2000年，这部作品被拍成了一部非常受欢迎的日本电影。

In 2000, this is made into a very popular Japanese movie.

它在很大程度上启发了《饥饿游戏》。

It has, sort of basically inspired the Hunger Games.

想象一下，一场发生在岛上的战斗，一群孩子。

Think about a battle on an island, a bunch of children.

我想这是一场生死搏斗。

I think it's a fight to the death.

这有点黑暗。

It's a little dark.

基本上，你得够黑暗。

Basically, you wanna be dark.

最后站着的人获胜。

Last person standing.

在21世纪初，有许多不同的游戏和动漫系列都基于这种大逃杀概念。

And there's a variety of different games and different sort of anime series that through the early two thousands are sort of based on this battle royale concept.

有一些早期的游戏。

There's early games.

还有《日出》。

There's Daybreak.

在2010年代中期或末期，有一款叫《绝地求生》的游戏开始将大逃杀概念融入其中。

There's in the end of the twenty tens or mid twenty tens, there's this game h one z one that's starting to incorporate this battle royale concept into a game.

是2017年吗？那时候《绝地求生》才发布？

In is it 2017 that battlegrounds comes out?

是的。

Yep.

2017年3月。

March 2017.

从今以后我们将它称为PUBG，《绝地求生》发布后取得了巨大成功。

And we will henceforth refer to it as PUBG, player unknown's battlegrounds comes out, and it is a smash hit.

它的理念是：时间固定，有一个不断收缩的圈，会把所有人越来越近地逼在一起，你必须成为最后存活的人，游戏节奏快，每局时间很短。

It is like this notion of there's a fixed amount of time and there's this circle that is contracting, and it's gonna bring everybody closer and closer and closer together, and you have to be the last person standing, and the action's fast paced, and it's sort of pretty short amount of time that each game lasts.

这不是那种五十分钟的MOBA类游戏。

It's not these fifty minute MOBA style games.

就是进来，享受战斗，然后离开。

It is like, get in, enjoy the action, get out.

即使你赢了，游戏时间也不长。

Even if you win, it's not that long of a game.

真的很好玩。

It is really fun.

而且，天哪，它的热度飙升得厉害，尤其是因为，大卫，正如你所说，数字发行是免费获胜的。

And, boy, does it skyrocket off the charts, especially because, David, exactly as you're saying, digital distribution, it is free to win.

它利用了这些类似内购的装饰品，你可以为角色购买皮肤。

It is leveraging these sort of in app purchase like adornments that you can buy for your character's skins.

但它的风格相当真实。

But it's pretty, like, realistic.

比如，暴力就是真实的暴力。

Like, the violence is actual violence.

这确实是一款战争游戏。

Like, it is a it is a war game.

它很黑暗。

It it's dark.

它很真实。

It's realistic.

而且，刚推出时，它还处于测试阶段。

Also, when it first comes out, it's in beta.

它是用虚幻引擎开发的。

It's built on Unreal.

你知道，这不是一个大团队。

You know, it's not a big team.

这不是动视在开发这款游戏。

It's not Activision that's making this.

这只是一个独立的演示作品。

It's, you know, an indie demo.

如果你在听这个播客之前听说过Bluehole，就举手。

Raise your hand if you heard of Bluehole before this podcast.

是的。

Yeah.

除非你身处这个行业，否则你不会知道《绝地求生》母公司的名字。

It's like unless you're in the industry, you haven't heard of PlayerUnknown's parent company.

没有。

No.

而且在早期阶段，我认为它只在PC上推出。

And also in these early days it's only on PC I think.

我

I

我觉得你说得对。

think you're right.

当时还没有跨平台，而且像这样的游戏，你希望越多的人玩越好，希望朋友们都玩，但并不是所有朋友都拥有游戏PC，这简直是个史诗级的举动。

It was not yet cross platform and again you know with with especially with a game like this you want the more as many people as possible playing it, you want your friends playing and not all your friends are gonna have gaming PCs in just like a literally epic move.

公司和蒂姆意识到，这些内部游戏项目根本没有取得任何进展。

The company and Tim see this happening, realize that these internal game projects are not getting any traction.

是的。

Yeah.

《虚幻锦标赛》团队，我觉得他们当时已经意识到这款游戏不会发布了。

The Unreal Tournament team, I think they sort of knew at this point that that wasn't gonna ship.

顺便说一下，Epic内部的《堡垒之夜》这个项目始于2011年。

By the way, like, the the title Fortnite inside of Epic started in 2011.

所以这已经经历了六年的开发。

So it's been six years of development.

是的。

Yep.

而且你们还有另一个团队，也就是《虚幻竞技场》团队，我认为他们此时已经放弃，很明显这款游戏不会发布了。

And and you have this this other team here, this Unreal Tournament team that I think had already given up at this point, that it was, like, clear that it was not gonna ship.

Paragon项目正在消耗大量的资源来实现它。

Paragon is taking a crap ton of resources to make that a reality.

这就是公司当时的内部状况，而此时《绝地求生》上线了。

That's the internal status of the company when, PUBG hits.

《绝地求生》上线了。

PUBG hits.

所以在两个月内，《虚幻竞技场》团队就转到了《堡垒之夜》的资产上。

So within two months, the Unreal Tournament team hops over into the Fortnite assets.

记住，他们都在使用虚幻引擎开发，所以他们都熟悉如何处理这些资产和代码。

Remember, they're all developing on the unreal engine, so they all know how to work with the assets and the code here.