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好了，各位听众。
Alright, listeners.
现在正是感谢Anthropic公司的好时机，他们是Claude的开发者。
Now is a great time to thank our friends at Anthropic, the makers of Claude.
接下来有一件事，可能ACQIRIED的听众还不知道。
So here's something ACQIRIED listeners may not know.
我们其实一直在用Claude的代码来搭建ACQIRIED本身的基础设施。
We have actually been using Claude code to build infrastructure for ACQIRIED itself.
这让我们能够打造出如果没有Claude就根本不可能实现的听众体验。
This let us create listener experiences that otherwise would not have existed if we did not have Claude.
没错。
Yes.
比如支撑我们YouTube节目字幕的自动转录系统。
Like the transcription pipeline that powers our YouTube episodes.
那就是用Claude的代码做的。
That is Claude code.
对。
Yep.
我们还用它来让Acquired的日常运营效率提升了很多。
And we also use it to run our business here at Acquired much more efficiently.
以前我得手动维护一堆老旧的静态表格，用来追踪下载量，试图从中找出规律。
I used to maintain these old static spreadsheets for tracking downloads and trying to draw conclusions.
我们用云代码写了一些脚本，把这些表格变成了内部的实时仪表盘，能抓取整个节目库的数据和我们每周都看的关键指标，用来判断每期节目的表现。
We wrote scripts with Cloud Code to turn those into custom internal dashboards that pull in live data across the whole catalog and metrics that we actually look at every week to figure out how episodes are doing.
而且我根本不用靠我那早就生疏的编程知识，那都过时很久了。
And I didn't need to rely on any of my old software developer knowledge for this, which is, quite expired at
到现在了。
this point.
任何人都能做到。
Anyone can do this.
我只需要说清楚我想要什么，Claude Code就全帮我搞定了
I just described what I needed, and Claude Code handled
是的。
Yep.
这些可不是原型。
And these are not prototypes.
我们发布的每一集都会自动运行字幕生成器。
The transcriber runs on every episode we publish.
仪表盘实时获取数据。
The dashboards pull live data.
这是我们依赖的核心生产系统。
This is the production infrastructure that we depend on.
没错。
That's right.
如果你是个开发者，每天花半天时间做那些你只想甩手不管的事，ClaudeCode可以直接在终端里运行，读取你的代码库，帮你写测试、重构代码或者调试，全程不用你一步步盯着。
And if you are a developer and you're spending half your day on tasks that you wish you could just hand off, ClaudeCode runs in your terminal, reads your code base, and can take on things like writing tests, refactoring, or debugging without you hand holding through every step.
这可不是代码自动补全。
And this isn't autocomplete.
使用 ClaudeCode，你可以给它一个完整任务，比如修复一个 bug 或开发新功能，它就能独立完成。
With Claude code, you give it an entire task like fixing a bug or building a new feature, and it handles it.
所以，对于值得解决的问题，赶紧去 claude.ai/acquired 开始使用 Claude 吧。
So for problems worth solving, get started with Claude at claude.ai/acquired.
谁掌握了真相？
Who got the truth?
是你吗？
Is it you?
是你吗？
Is it you?
是你吗？
Is it you?
现在谁掌握了真相？
Who got the truth now?
是你吗？
Is it you?
是你吗？
Is it you?
是你吗？
Is it you?
让我坐下吧。
Sit me down.
直说吧。
Say it straight.
另一个故事马上来。
Another story on the way.
谁掌握了真相？
Who got the truth?
欢迎回到《ACQUIRED》第二集。
Welcome back to episode two of ACQUIRED.
我是本·吉尔伯特。
I'm Ben Gilbert.
我是大卫·罗森塔尔。
I'm David Rosenthal.
我们再次担任你们的主持人，至少这是第二次了，希望以后还能有更多次。
And we are your hosts yet again, at least for the second time and hopefully many, many more.
希望真的能有更多次。
Hopefully, many more.
感谢所有听众，尽管人数不多，但你们的支持让我们不断成长。
Thank you to all of our listeners, all few of you for the few bit growings.
人数虽少，但精神十足。
Small in number, strong in spirit.
没错。
True.
谢谢大家精彩的反馈。
Thank you for the amazing feedback.
真的非常棒。
It was incredible.
我们学到了很多。
We learned a lot.
我们发现本的表达特别地道。
We learned that Ben has amazing idioms.
特别地道。
Amazing idioms.
大卫的声音特别悦耳。
David has dulcet tones.
谢谢你们的反馈。
Thank you for the feedback.
我们会努力吸收这些建议，希望越做越好。
We will try to incorporate it and, hope that we keep getting better.
如果听完之后还有其他想法，欢迎随时告诉我们。
If, you have more feedback after this one, please send it to us.
你们可以在 Twitter 上关注我们，节目账号是 Acquired FM。
You can find us on you can find the show on Twitter at Acquired FM.
你可以关注本的账号
You can find Ben at
吉尔伯特。
Gilbert.
你可以找到我，大卫，邮箱是 d j r o s e n t。
You can find me, David, at d j rosent, d j r o s e n t.
我们的网站 acquired.fm 已经上线了。
And our website is live at acquired.fm.
我们要不要再自我介绍一下？
So should we introduce ourselves again?
我们觉得，前几期还是介绍一下比较好，毕竟现在听众不止原来的那五位了。
We think for the first couple, so people so, you know, more than our our original five listeners get, the lowdown.
我觉得这次就破例一次吧。
I think we can do it this just this once.
等第三集火了之后，我们就不用再自我介绍了。
Then once we're viral after episode three, then we can stop introducing ourselves.
是的。
Yeah.
听起来不错。
Sounds great.
我是本·吉尔伯特。
So I'm Ben Gilbert.
我是西雅图先锋广场实验室的联合创始人。
I am the cofounder of Pioneer Square Labs in here in Seattle.
我们为初创公司构思点子。
We come up with ideas for companies.
然后做出原型。
We prototype them.
接着把产品做出来。
We build them.
我们会想办法找客户，如果一切顺利，就找来顶尖人才接手公司，我们则去启动下一个项目。
We try and get customers, and if it seems to be working, then we recruit really talented people to come in and and take the company from us, we go start the next thing.
我是大卫。
And I'm David.
我是麦德罗纳风险投资公司的合伙人。
I am a principal at Madrona Venture Group.
我们是一家总部设在西雅图的早期风险投资公司。
We are an early stage venture capital firm located here in Seattle.
我们投资种子轮、A轮和B轮阶段的科技公司。
Invest in seed series a, series b stage technology companies.
我们一直在寻找下一个伟大的机会，它可能成为未来的收购方，也可能是被收购的对象——这也是我们做这个播客的原因。
Always looking for the next great thing, which might become the next great acquirer or maybe acquiree, hence our podcast.
好的。
Alright.
那么，我们转入第二期节目。
So with that, let's segue into, our second episode.
第一期我们聊了迪士尼收购皮克斯，这一期我们继续讲另一个标志性的成功收购案例——脸书收购Instagram，这起收购发生在最近几年，没那么久远，但同样意义重大。
Our first was, Disney acquiring Pixar, and here for our second, as another landmark successful, you know, even in even in the very recent last couple years, this one's not nearly as old, landmark successful acquisition, Instagram by Facebook.
Facebook收购Instagram。
Facebook buying Instagram.
简单回顾一下，我们这档节目采用了一个固定框架：先简要聊聊这次收购的基本事实和背景。
So as a quick reminder, the framework that we've decided on for our show is we're gonna briefly talk about the acquisition kind of facts and history.
然后，我和本会分别从几个我们事先定好的维度来分析这次收购。
Then each of us, Ben and I, are gonna categorize the acquisition into a few buckets that we've identified.
接着我们会玩一个有趣的环节——如果这次收购没发生，事情会怎样发展。
And then we're gonna do a fun segment called, what would have happened had the acquisition not happened.
相信我们。
Trust us.
这个环节特别有意思。
It's fun.
这一期我们还加了一个新环节，就是分析这次收购反映出的科技趋势。
And and then we're adding a new one for this episode, which is is tech themes that we think are illustrated in by this acquisition.
最后，我们会给整个交易打个分数。
And then and then finally, we're gonna give the the the deal as a whole a grade.
我们收到反馈说，我和本太容易意见一致了，所以这次我们打算故意挑点争议出来。
And we we heard the feedback that Ben and I agree too much, so we're gonna try and be more controversial here.
我才不是呢。
I'm not though.
你就是。
Yes, you are.
行吧。
Alright.
Instagram。
Instagram.
我清楚记得，那是我科技生涯中一个特别难忘的时刻——得知Facebook以十亿美元收购Instagram的那天，我在哪儿、在干什么，全都记得清清楚楚。
So, I remember vividly, this was one of those moments in my technology life at least, exactly where I was the day I found out that Facebook bought Instagram for a billion dollars.
可今天再看，2015年了，全球有六百多家独角兽公司，估值都超过十亿美元。
And today, sitting here in 2015 where there are like 623 unicorn startups out there that are valued at, you know, more than a billion dollars.
但回到2012年4月，那时候估值超过十亿美元的公司屈指可数。
Back in April 2012, there were very very few.
当时，一家只有13个员工、没有任何收入、只做了一个手机应用的公司，居然值十亿美元，这简直让人难以置信。
And the the even idea that a company that had 13 employees and no revenue and made an app on your phone could be worth a billion dollars was pretty shocking at the time.
确实太惊人了，因为在收购之前，根本没人讨论过它值十亿美元。
And totally shocking because there was no, you know, discussion of it being worth a billion dollars pre acquisition.
唯一透露过这个数字的迹象，就是交易完成、对外公布的时候。
The only indicator that that that that number was ever talked about was when the deal was done and announced to the public.
是的。
Yep.
有意思的是，Instagram在被收购前一周，甚至不到一周，刚完成B轮融资，当时估值也就几亿美元。
And and, interestingly, Instagram raised its, I believe, series b, round of venture capital, just, like, a week or even less than a week before the acquisition happened, and did value it at several several $100,000,000.
但这些信息都是在收购消息公布前后才浮出水面的，那可是个大事件。
But all that only came out, just right before or even during and after the acquisition news, which was pretty momentous.
关于这次收购，我和本已经聊了好几个月了。
Really ushered in Ben and I have been talking about this for this this acquisition for months.
这档节目的想法，其实就源于这次收购。
It was part of the genesis of the idea of this show.
我认为这次收购真正开启了所谓的‘独角兽时代’。
This acquisition, I think, really ushered in, you know, quote unquote, the age of the unicorn.
是的。
Yeah.
虽然我不喜欢这个词，但看起来确实就是这样。
As much as I hate the term, it sure does see that way, seem that way.
简单说一下关键信息：2012年4月，Facebook宣布收购Instagram——一家只有13名员工、没有收入、没有明显盈利模式，但当时已有三千万用户的公司。
So quick facts, April 2012, Facebook announces that they are buying Instagram, company with 13 employees, no revenue, no obvious monetization model, and had 30,000,000 users at the time.
有趣的是，就在收购前一周，Instagram刚上线了安卓版应用，新增了一百万用户。
And interestingly, just a week before, Instagram had launched their Android app and added 1,000,000 users.
当时，13名员工服务三千万用户，收购时人均用户数达到了二百三十万。
At that time, with 13 employees and 30,000,000 users, Instagram had 2,300,000 users per employee at acquisition.
小测一下。
Pop quiz.
你觉得现在Instagram的员工人均用户数是多少？
How many users per employee do you think Instagram has today?
他们招了一大堆人。
Well, they've hired a whole bunch of people.
对吧？
Right?
确实如此。
They have.
没错。
They have.
我们刚才在聊什么来着？
I think what were we talking about earlier?
他们现在大概有150名员工吧？
They have, like, a 150 employees now?
据我们所知，他们现在大约有150名员工。
They have about a 150 employees as best as we can tell.
我不确定。
I don't know.
现在这个数字肯定更糟了。
That that number's gotta be significantly worse now.
情况好多了。
It's better.
每个员工对应两百六十万用户。
2,600,000 users per employee.
Instagram在两年半后，用户数达到了四亿。
Instagram now has, two and a half years later, 400,000,000 users.
天哪。
Wow.
明白了。
Okay.
我真的说不准。
So I don't know.
我好像已经在暗示我后面要给出的答案了，不过呢，这是我们第二期节目。
I feel like I'm already hinting at my my answer to the question later of my rendered conclusion, but, you know, we this is our second episode.
我们这儿还在处理一些简单的部分。
We're still getting the easy ones here.
说实话，简直不可思议。
Pretty incredible, honestly.
我一直觉得Instagram最让人惊讶的地方是它太简单了。
I think the the thing that always amazed me about Instagram was it's so simple.
他们一心盯着目标，至于后来会提到的问题是：如果Instagram没被整合进Facebook的战略，而是被迫去争夺那些让人离不开Facebook的注意力，它这个简单又纯粹的平台会变成什么样？
They focus their eyes on the prize, and the question is, you know, we'll we'll get to this a little bit later, but what would have happened to that incredible, simple, sheltered platform if it wasn't integrated into Facebook strategy, and they were forced to start clawing and scratching for for more of that attention that that keeps people tied to Facebook?
因为我觉得Facebook真正意识到的是，他们才是社交的基石。
Because I think the interesting thing that Facebook realized is they're the they're the social fabric.
他们是不可或缺的。
They're necessary.
那时候，几乎每个人父母都上了Facebook。
And it was getting to the point, you know, everyone's parents were on Facebook.
它在我们生活中逐渐变成了一种工具，而不是一种放松或娱乐的方式。
It became more of a utility in our lives than than sort of an escape or an enjoyable thing.
对了，说个有趣的事，这事儿真挺离谱的。
And, actually, quick aside, it's it's crazy.
我翻了翻以前在朋友主页上的留言记录，那是他大一的时候，我们俩在公共墙上的来回互动，简直就像发短信一样。
I was scrolling back through my, my history of writing on a friend's wall, and it's his freshman year of college, and our conversation back and forth on our each other's, like, public Facebook walls look like text messages.
聊的都是些考试成绩啊，还有些我现在绝对不会再公开分享的私密事。
And they're they're talking about what grades we got in classes and, like, sort of private stuff that I wouldn't be posting today.
那时候Facebook真像个轻松有趣的地方，完全不是现在这种我们觉得非用不可、几乎人人都有、理所当然的存在。
It's really fascinating that, you know, Facebook was was very much that that sort of fun place at that point And not this this thing that we viewed as kinda necessary and a thing that it could be assumed that pretty much every person would have.
你也能看到不少报道说，孩子们都不用Facebook了。
And, you know, you see there's a lot of reports of, hey, kids aren't using Facebook.
他们只用Instagram。
They're just using Instagram.
他们只用Snapchat。
They're just using Snapchat.
当然他们也用Facebook，但主要是为了做作业。
They're all using Facebook too, but it's for school work.
我的意思是，他们用Facebook是为了一些生活中不得不做的、没那么有趣的事。
I mean, it's for the the necessary less fun things in their lives.
从Instagram开始，后来又收购了其他平台，说白了，Instagram才是大家想待的地方，而Facebook是不得不去的地方。
And, you know, starting with with Instagram and with other acquisitions later, I mean, Instagram is is sort of where you wanna hang out, and Facebook is where you have to go.
是的。
Yep.
你知道，现在坐在这里是2015年，很容易就忘了当年的事。也许到2018年，我们想找点有趣的内容时，会回头听听我们现在正在录的这期播客。
And, you know, Facebook, it's so easy to forget now sitting here in 2015, and maybe we'll maybe if if we're we're looking for something funny in 2018, we'll we'll go back and listen to our podcast that we're recording now.
但真的一点都记不起来了。
But but it's even so hard to remember.
就在三年半前，这个收购刚发生的时候，Facebook和现在完全不是同一个东西。
Like, this was only three and a half years ago when this acquisition happened, and Facebook was in such a different place from where it is today.
那时候公司刚上市不久。
The company had just recently gone public.
我和本刚才在节目开始前还聊到这件事。
We Ben and I were just talking about this right before the episode.
他们那时候还在忍受 HTML5 移动应用的噩梦。
They were still in the whole HTML five mobile app hell.
他们的应用bug一大堆。
Their apps were buggy.
天哪。
God.
你还记得那时候这居然还是个争议话题吗？
Can you remember when that was even a debate?
真是够糟的。
Oh, nightmare.
现在呢，Facebook 的收入，有一半甚至更多，都来自这儿吧？
And right in, like, you know, now, like, what is, like, half of Facebook's revenue, if not more?
我们得提一句，前面说的那些数据都没核实过，可能说得不对。
We haven't we should make a note too that we haven't fact checked most of our numbers, so we could be wrong here.
但至少，大家现在聊 Facebook，无非就是移动应用下载量和 CPI 广告。
But at least, it seems like everything that people talk about with Facebook is their mobile app installs and their CPI ads.
连HTML5都做不到这一点。
Like, couldn't even do that with HTML five.
回想当年，现在大家总在谈这个，连马克·扎克伯格自己都说过，Facebook在移动端犯了个大错。
Remember back, you know, you know, people talk about now, you know, and I and I think, you know, Mark Zuckerberg has even said, you know, that, Facebook really made a huge misstep in mobile.
像Instagram、WhatsApp这些他们后来收购的App，还有后来在Facebook内部开发的Messenger，都填补了空缺，取代了过去人们从Facebook上获得的乐趣和价值。
And and apps like Instagram, like WhatsApp that they would later acquire, like Messenger that they would build within Facebook in the coming years, really stepped in and became took over a lot of the value that people were getting out of Facebook from back in the day, the fun.
很惊人的是，Facebook在桌面端其实做得特别成功。
And it's amazing because Facebook, you know, really, really killed it on the desktop.
那时候页面上到处都是各种模块。
There's a lot of different boxes everywhere.
你还记得吧，有动态消息、个人墙，还有各种应用。
If you remember, there was the mini feed, and then there was the wall, and then there was apps Yeah.
你可以自己安装这些应用。
That you could have installed.
超级戳一下。
Super poke.
每一个啊，超级戳。
Each one oh, super poke.
天啊，我真怀念超级戳。
God, do I miss super poke?
那时候屏幕上到处都是这种浮动的小盒子，拼命占满每一寸空间。
It there there are these boxes that are sort of floating around all over the place, maximizing your screen real estate.
当他们想把这套东西搬到手机上时，问题就来了——你的应用功能太丰富了，想精简谈何容易。
And when they try to translate that to a mobile experience, you know, it's it's tough to pare down all that stuff when your app has all this incredible functionality.
而Instagram不一样，它生在移动时代，我倒有个有趣的故事。
Whereas, you have Instagram, which is born in the mobile era, and I I can have a funny story about this.
它生在移动时代，满屏都是沉浸式、精美的照片，每次只聚焦一件事，目标就是让普通人也能拍出有艺术感的照片，哪怕你根本没天赋。
It's born in the mobile era and has these immersive, beautiful, damn near full screen photographs, and all of my attention is on that one thing at one time, and it was focused on making anybody able to look like a talented creative, even if we weren't.
我记得特别清楚，我最早发的一条Instagram，就是撕破的牛仔裤裤脚和鞋子，加个滤镜，居然显得特别有范儿。
I mean, I specifically remember one of my early Instagrams was of, like, the torn up bottom of my jeans and my shoe, and it looks so artsy with a filter.
那是个让你能展示自己的地方。
And I couldn't it was a place where you could show off
这也太伤感了吧。
That's so emo.
全屏显示。
Full screen.
他们真正理解了用户在平台上注意力的持续时间，以及用户的真实意图是什么。
And and really, like, you know, what they what they did was understand what people's attention stand span and what people's intention looked like when they were on that platform.
我记得那时候我根本没意识到这一点，因为我当时在Pier 38的Dogpatch Labs实习。
And I remember, this is not a thing that I came close to understanding at the time because I I remember I used to work at a Dogpatch Labs at Pier 38.
愿它安息。
May it rest in peace.
最近已经被拆除了。
It's recently been demolished.
你当时在Cotweet实习的时候。
When you're interning at cotweet.
在Cotweet。
At cotweet.
是的
Yeah.
在旧金山。
In San Francisco.
而且
And
这是一次收购。
It's self an acquisition.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
一次收购，然后又是一次收购。
An acquisition and then another acquisition.
是的
Yeah.
最终，所有东西都会变成Salesforce。
Everything gets everything becomes Salesforce eventually.
在企业领域。
In the enterprise.
是的。
Yeah.
后来我去了38号码头，那时候Bourbon那帮人——就是后来的Instagram——正住在楼上，把他们原本基于位置的服务转向一个简单的滤镜应用，让用户上传照片到社交网络。
Anyway, so I'm at Pier 38 and the the guys from Bourbon, later Instagram, were upstairs and working on a pivot from their kind of location based thing to this very simple filter focused upload your photos to a social network app.
我记得有一次路过时看了他们的演示，就跟凯文说，我觉得Facebook早就允许用户从手机上传照片了，大家都已经在用它了。
And I remember seeing a demo of it when I walked by one time and and telling Kevin, I'm pretty sure Facebook already lets you upload photos from your phone, and everybody's already on that.
所以，本，这就是你为什么当不了风险投资人的原因。
And that, Ben, is why you're not a venture capitalist.
这个还是让大卫去说吧。
We'll leave that to David.
不过说真的，本，你刚才说的，其实正好说明了我们待会儿要聊的主题。
But, no, I think, you know, Ben, what you're saying, I think really illustrates you know, we're we're gonna talk about themes, you know, as part of our programming in a minute.
但我认为这恰恰说明了Facebook为什么需要Instagram，关键就在于用户参与度。
But I think this really illustrates something critical about why Facebook needed Instagram, and that was engagement.
你知道吗，Facebook在移动端兴起之前，记得吗？刚推出那会儿，我上大学，你可能还在上高中。
You know, Facebook before mobile, remember, you know, back when it first launched when I was in college, and you were probably in high school when it first launched.
对吧？
Right?
对。
Yep.
那时候你平时用Facebook的频率高吗？
You know, how much engagement did you have with Facebook?
其实这跟‘乐趣’这个概念有关。
It it was, you know, it's related to this concept of fun.
对吧？
Right?
现在Facebook已经变成一个工具了，我几乎都不怎么用了。
And now Facebook has become this utility, and I barely engage with it at all.
但Instagram、消息应用WhatsApp，还有类似的服务，在移动端已经变成了一个个独立的平台，用户的活跃度都集中在这些地方，这才是广告收入的核心来源。
But Instagram and messaging, WhatsApp, and and other services like that have become, on mobile, these atomized services where your engagement lies, and and that's the core of driving advertising revenue.
Facebook一直很擅长这种策略——社交网络就像是潮人玩的游戏。
And and Facebook has always been really good at this strategy, where social networking is a cool kids game.
意思是，第一批潮流人士去了某个平台，后来的人跟风加入，接着父母辈也进来了，然后就变得无聊了，平台还是按旧时代的模式设计，慢慢就萎缩、死了。
I mean, there's the cool kids go to a thing, and then the late adopters come on, and then parents come on, and then it's boring, and then it's built for the old world platform, and then it atrophies and it dies.
Facebook收购Instagram的时候，放下了自大，承认自己并不是最重要的平台。
And what Facebook did, when in acquiring Instagram, is is, you know, set their hubris aside and say, we're not the most important platform.
最重要的是公司得活下去，我们必须押注在用户正在聚集的新平台上。
The most important thing is our business staying alive, And what we have to do is bet on whatever the thing where the people are on the new platform is.
在迈出这关键的第一步之后，他们才能慢慢搞清楚为什么这些新平台这么成功，再把那些顶尖人才整合进来，让Facebook也学会怎么玩。
And, you know, after they after that critical first step, then they can start learning about what makes that so successful and and kind of integrate all of those really talented, folks to kinda, like, teach Facebook how to do that too.
这就带我们进入节目的第二部分。
So that brings us to section number two of our show.
你觉得这次收购属于哪种类型？
What category would you put this acquisition in?
人、技术、产品、业务线，还是其他？
People, technology, product, business line, other?
这挺有意思的。
It's funny.
刚才还在说人，但在这儿那完全是次要的。
Was just talking about people, but that's that's totally second order here.
我觉得这属于产品。
I'm a say this is product.
Facebook 没去动它。
The the Facebook left it alone.
Facebook 做了其他收购方在任何情况下都忍不住要做的事——说，哎，这个要是能用上该多好。
I mean, Facebook did the thing that every other acquirer can't seem to resist in any scenario, and that is saying, oh, you know what this could do?
这能让我们主打产品变得更厉害。
This could make our our main product better.
那个产品之所以对你构成威胁，甚至可能把你打趴下，是因为他们发现了你没看懂的东西。
And the reason that that product was was dangerous to you and potentially kicking your ass was because they figured something out you didn't.
看着Instagram自己一步步发展，真的特别令人惊叹。
And it's been really incredible to watch Instagram have its own evolution.
虽然中间也受到过一些助推，比如Facebook动态消息之类的，做了一些算法上的倾斜，
And, you know, albeit with some little boosts and from from, you know, the Facebook news feed and and things like that, doing some algorithmic priority.
但它一直保持独立的团队，始终忠于当初创立时的核心理念。
But it's it's really remained separate, a separate team, and stayed very true to the core of what they set out to do.
你说的都对，按理说这确实该归到产品类别里，但我有点不同看法。
I think everything you said is right, and totally the natural category to put this in is products, but I'm gonna be a little bit controversial.
我觉得这其实应该算技术。
I'm actually gonna say technology here.
我说它是技术，不是因为Instagram团队有什么特别厉害的计算机科学突破，
And the reason I'm gonna say technology is not because of any, specific, great computer science based innovation that the Instagram team had.
而是因为它成了Facebook错失移动浪潮后，第一个真正补上战略缺口的举措——他们从一开始就没跟上移动这波趋势。
But I'm gonna say that this became, as I was talking about, really the first the first piece of of Facebook's entire strategy for the mobile technology wave, that they missed that they missed from from the beginning.
等等。
Wait.
大卫，你是不是觉得他们……抱歉。
David, you you think that they sorry.
你是觉得，如果没有那些努力，他们的应用不可能变成今天这样吗？咱们不妨看看他们现在的应用是什么样子。
This is you think that they wouldn't have gotten their act together in making their app what it is today without I mean, let let's let's look at what their app is today.
他们团队聚集了全球最顶尖的iOS开发者，还有大量顶尖的移动设计师，集中在一个办公室里，打造了可能是全球最出色的移动应用组合。
It's a collection of the most talented iOS developers in the world, and a lot of the best mobile designers in the world packed into one office, developing maybe arguably the best suite of apps in the world.
你刚刚说中了关键点。
You just said the critical thing.
应用组合。
Suite.
一套应用。
Suite of apps.
Facebook今天是什么样子？
What is Facebook today?
Facebook现在是一家拥有多个应用的公司。
Facebook is a suite of apps company.
这点我完全同意。
Not gonna disagree with you there.
我觉得如果没有Instagram，很难说清楚这一切到底有多少是扎克伯格、谢丽尔·桑德伯格和Facebook核心团队的策略，又有多少是来自凯文和迈克以及Instagram团队的贡献。
I think without Instagram, without, and it's impossible to know how much of this is, Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg and the rest of the Facebook team core Facebook team strategy versus what's come from from Kevin and Mike, and the rest of the Instagram team.
但我认为，如果没有那次收购，Facebook后来可能就不会在几个月后向Snapchat提出收购要约，出价30亿美元，结果被对方拒绝了。
But I think without that acquisition happening, I think Facebook, probably doesn't or make an offer for Snapchat somewhat, a few months or a short time after to buy Snapchat for 3,000,000,000, that Snapchat rejected.
Facebook也不会花那么惊人的价钱收购WhatsApp。
I think Facebook doesn't buy WhatsApp for the incredible amount of money that it did.
甚至可能连Oculus，某种程度上也不会买。
And maybe, you know, maybe even Oculus to a certain extent.
但更重要的是，想想2012年4月，那时候Facebook的移动端还是一团HTML5的乱麻。
But but even more than that, you know, again, think back to April 2012 when Facebook on mobile is this HTML five mess.
再想想现在Messenger是什么样子。
And And think about Messenger now.
从当年那团HTML5乱麻，到今天Facebook主应用的成熟形态——它通过付费安装和广告系统带来了巨额收入，同时还在背后开发了Messenger，最后还敢把它拆出来，纳入这个应用套件的战略中。
To go from that HTML five mess to the Facebook core Facebook app today, which drives a huge amount of revenue for through their paid install program, ad program, and then to develop Messenger on the side and then have the guts to rip it out and make it part of this suite of app strategy.
你知道吗，Facebook Messenger最新的数据是拥有七亿活跃用户，作为一个完全独立的应用，这简直太惊人了。
You know, face Messenger, I believe the latest numbers has 700,000,000 active users, which is is pretty incredible for something that, is now a fully standalone app.
是的。
Yeah.
我同意你说的，Instagram的技术确实给了我们很大的推动。
So I'll go with you on on the technology of Instagram being a kick in the pants.
但我觉得，当我们谈论技术收购时，真正关键的是对方在某个计算难题上比我们更在行，而我们需要这项技术来提升核心产品。
But I don't think you know, we talk about, like, what a technology acquisition that is truly about, you know, they you know, they understood how to do this computationally difficult thing better than we did, and we needed it to enhance our core product.
比如苹果收购了Touch ID的公司，因为他们能通过整合这项技术做出差异化的产品。
Or, you know, Apple acquiring the Touch ID company because they could make a differentiated product based on integrating that technology.
但我觉得，收购Instagram和这些情况完全不同，它本质上是买了一个现成的产品。
I think that's a far second order thing here to acquiring the product of Instagram.
你可能说得对。
You might be right.
等等。
Wait.
你回头再找我吧。
You'll you'll get me later.
我回头再找你。
I'll get you later.
各位听众朋友们，
Alright, listeners.
现在正是感谢我们一家特别喜欢的公司——Sentry的好时机。
This is a great time to thank one of our favorite companies, Sentry.
S-E-N-T-R-Y，就像一位守卫者，我们稍后会为ACQIRIED的听众准备一份特别福利。
That's s e n t r y, like someone standing guard, and we have something special for the ACQIRIED community to share here in a minute.
没错。
Yes.
Sentry 帮开发者快速定位错误和延迟问题，几乎任何软件故障都能提前发现并修复，避免用户发火。
Sentry helps developers debug errors and latency issues, pretty much any software problem, and fix them before users get mad.
他们官网上说，超过四百万名软件开发者都认为它‘不错’。
As their homepage puts it, they are considered, quote, unquote, not bad by over 4,000,000 software developers.
今天我们要聊的是Sentry如何与收购宇宙中的另一家公司Anthropic合作。
Today, we are talking about the way that Sentry works with another company in the acquired universe, Anthropic.
Anthropic以前用过一些老式的基础设施监控工具，但考虑到他们规模庞大、系统复杂，最终选择了Sentry，以便更快地解决问题。
Anthropic used to have some older infrastructure monitoring in place, but at their massive scale and complexity, they instead adopted Sentry to help them fix issues faster.
没错。
Yep.
在人工智能领域，崩溃可能带来严重后果。
Crashes can be a massive problem in AI.
如果你正在运行一个大型计算任务，比如训练模型，一旦某个节点出问题，可能会影响成百上千台服务器。
If you're running a huge compute job like training a model and one node fails, it can affect hundreds or thousands of servers.
Sentry帮他们及时发现故障硬件，避免问题扩散成连锁反应。
Sentry helped them detect bad hardware so they could quickly reject it before causing a cascading problem.
Sentry还让他们能把原本需要几天才能定位的大问题，缩短到几小时内解决，尽快恢复训练任务。
Sentry also enabled them to debug massive issues in hours instead of days so they could get back to their training runs.
如今，Anthropic依赖Sentry实时追踪异常、分配错误并分析其研究团队主要使用的编程语言——包括Python、Rust和C++——中的各类故障。
And today, Anthropic relies on Sentry to track exceptions, assign errors, and analyze failures in real time across all the primary languages used by Anthropic's research teams, including Python, Rust, and c plus plus.
据Anthropic团队说，Sentry为开发人员提供了一个统一的平台，所有调试问题所需的信息都能在这里找到。
According to the Anthropic team, Sentry gives our developers one place that will have all the information they need to debug an issue.
说到AI，Sentry现在推出了一款名为SEER的AI调试工具。
And speaking of AI, Sentry now has an AI debugger called SEER.
SEER是一个AI助手，它能结合Sentry中的问题上下文和你的代码库，不只是猜测，而是精准定位那些棘手问题的根本原因，并为你量身提供可直接合并的修复方案。
SEER is an AI agent that taps into the issue context from Sentry and your code base to not just guess, but root cause gnarly issues and propose merger ready fixes specific to your application.
我们非常高兴能与Sentry合作。
We're pumped to be working with Sentry.
他们的客户名单非常亮眼，不仅有Anthropic，还有Cursor、Vercel、Linear等等。
They have an incredible customer list, including not only Anthropic, but Cursor, Vercel, Linear, and more.
如果你也想像全球超过二十万家组织那样，快速修复代码问题——从独立开发者到世界顶级大公司，都可以去sentry.io/acquired了解详情。
And if you wanna fix broken code fast like over 200,000 other organizations that use Sentry from indie hobbyists to some of the biggest companies in the world, you can check out sentry.io/acquired.
最后提一下，我们的朋友Sentry将在今年九月于旧金山举办官方的Acquired线下聚会。
And one last thing, our friends at Sentry are hosting the official Acquired Meetup in San Francisco this September.
想了解更多信息或接收活动通知，请访问sentry.io/acquired/meetup。
To learn more and get notified about dates, visit sentry.io/acquired/meetup.
我们太期待了。
We're so pumped.
真想在那儿见到你们所有人。
We can't wait to see so many of you there.
好了，我们继续节目。
And now back to the show.
好的。
Alright.
如果凯文·西斯特罗姆当时拒绝了，会怎么样？
What would have happened if Kevin Systrom had said no?
对。
Yeah.
Instagram 当时刚融了五千万美元。
Instagram had just raised $50,000,000.
他们资金很充裕。
They have plenty of runway.
他们的未来一片光明。
Bright future ahead of them.
我们今天会是什么样子？
Where would we be today?
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得，对用户来说，Instagram 这个产品本身不会有太大差别。
You know, I think Instagram as a product to users wouldn't be significantly different.
我觉得它可能会增长得慢一些，毕竟当时没有足够的资源。
I think that it would have continued to grow more slowly, because they didn't have the resources.
他们也不会有来自 Facebook 的优先支持——当然，这都是假设。
They wouldn't have had the prioritization from and, you know, this is this is theoretical.
这个话题我们以前聊过。
This is something we talked about before.
Facebook 真的在信息流算法里优先推送 Instagram 的内容吗？
Did, you know, Facebook really prioritize Instagram posts in the news feed algorithm?
大概吧。
Probably.
我的意思是，看起来确实如此。
I mean, it sure looked like it.
我们当时在这方面的流量明显激增，Instagram的访问量肯定大增了。
It looks like we had a huge spike in that, there was probably a lot more Instagram traffic.
另一方面，让我到现在还觉得遗憾的是推特。
On the other hand, one of the things I'm still bummed about today is Twitter.
我可是个忠实的推特用户。
A loyal Twitter user.
天哪。
Oh, man.
当年Instagram能直接嵌入推特动态的时候，那感觉多好啊。
How great was it when Instagram was natively integrated into the Twitter stream?
是的。
Yeah.
那确实挺酷的。
That was pretty cool.
当那个功能被取消的时候，真是让人特别难过。
And that was that was a that was a sad, sad day when that integration broke.
真的挺遗憾的。
Totally sad.
实际上，这改变了我的习惯。
And actually, it changed my behavior.
我现在不会把照片发到Instagram再转推了，因为我知道它根本显示不出来。
Like, I I don't tweet photos on like, I don't put a photo on Instagram and then tweet it because I know it's not gonna show up.
我现在直接在Twitter上上传照片了。
I natively upload it to Twitter now.
对。
Yep.
你通常多久这么做一次？
And how often do you do that?
每第三条或第四条推文。
Every third, fourth tweet.
也许吧。
Maybe.
是的。
Yeah.
也许吧。
Maybe.
不过我本来想说，这些因素其实互相抵消了。
But but but I'll say I was gonna say, oh, these things negate each other.
推特已经有三亿用户，还在不断拉新。
Twitter's at 300,000,000 users and churning out everyone they can bring in.
到现在已经累计超过十亿了。
Churned out a billion plus so far.
而脸书则稳稳占据着全球联网人口的相当一部分。
And Facebook's sitting pretty with, you know, a decent chunk of the world's Internet enabled population.
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没错。
Yep.
所以我觉得，Facebook 做的任何事，都能把 Twitter 的效果放大三到四倍，甚至五倍。
So I think anything Facebook does is, you know, a three, four x, maybe five x force multiplier on top of anything Twitter can do.
毫无疑问。
No doubt.
不过我觉得，Instagram 本身已经成了吸引用户的重要力量。
However, I do think, you know, Instagram has become itself, a huge driver of audience.
而且
And
对。
Yeah.
四亿活跃用户。
Four four hundred million active users.
今年又新增了一亿活跃用户。
Million active users added a 100,000,000 this year.
这太惊人了。
It's crazy.
对。
Yeah.
但我认为，他们其实完全可以通过其他平台，比如推特，再加上脸书，慢慢积累起这么庞大的用户群。
But I think they, you know, I think you can make an argument that they could have continued bootstrapping their way up into that user base through other platforms like Twitter and using Facebook as well.
是的。
Yeah.
我是说，我觉得情况会不一样。
I mean, here's here's how I think it would be different.
尤其是过去六个月，Instagram 已经有了一个非常成熟的广告平台。
I think, you know, in the last six months, especially, Twitter has a or I'm sorry, Instagram has a very real ad platform.
而且他们花了不少时间来打磨这个系统。
And that they they took their time in developing it.
一开始是完全人工对接的，必须直接跟 Instagram 团队合作，现在则推出了自助式后台。
First, a very full serve one where you had to work directly with the Instagram team, now a self serve dash dashboard.
但你会看到那些非常沉浸式的品牌广告，而且完全契合平台的调性。
But you get these really immersive brand ads that are platform appropriate.
它们不会让你觉得想直接划走。
They don't feel like something that I wanna scroll past.
你几乎会像看那些精美的自然摄影一样，忍不住想仔细看看。
I wanna look at it almost as much as I wanna look at the gorgeous nature photography that I see.
他们当时根本没有足够的广告主来支撑这个广告平台。
They just didn't have the the funnel of advertisers to to point the ad platform at.
所以想吸引广告主关注，让人愿意来用 Instagram，不仅花钱，还花时间去学习这个新平台，速度会非常慢。
So it would've been very slow to try and get advertiser attention, and people to come over and use the Instagram platform, and and not only to spend their dollars there, but to spend their attention there learning a new platform.
但被 Facebook 收购之后，他们实现了双重部署——你可以通过同一个广告后台，在 Facebook 和 Instagram 上同时投放广告，就像 Google 早期对 YouTube 做的那样。
Whereas, in the Facebook acquisition, they have this kind of dual, dual deployment, where you can buy ads on either from a single ad dashboard, much like Google did very early on with YouTube.
没错。
Yep.
接下来我要说一个有点离谱的想法，纯属个人猜测。
So I'm gonna go in a little bit kinda out there crazy direction with this, and this is pure speculation.
但我觉得，如果当初没被收购，就像我之前说的，这其实开启了应用群星时代——Facebook收购了其他应用，Twitter收购了Vine，就连Instagram自己现在也推出了Boomerang和Hyperlapse这些新应用。
But I think if this acquisition hadn't happened you know, I mean, like we're like I was talking about earlier, this kicked off the era of the constellation of apps, you know, with Facebook and with, you know, Twitter buying Vine, and, gosh, even Instagram itself now between, Boomerang that they just launched and Hyperlapse.
还有Layout。
And, Layout.
没错。
Yep.
得给Instagram的设计团队点个赞。
Which kudos to the Instagram design team.
这些应用之间的整体风格协调得真不错。
The the cohesiveness of those is really nice.
不过咱们不妨假设一下，这几年科技圈里并没有形成这种应用群星的潮流。
So let's imagine though for a second that this constellation of apps thing hasn't become a theme in in in the technology landscape over the past couple years.
但真正有意思的是，既然已经形成了，你现在看到的这些过去五年里崛起的主要社交平台，除了Snapchat之外，
What's what's really inter well, what's really interesting because it has, you now have all of these major social platforms that have been created over the past five years with the exception of Snapchat.
所有美国本土新诞生的社交平台，全都被其他公司收购了，而这些公司有着不同的商业模式和目标。
All of The US new, domestic, US based social platforms are owned by other companies with other business models and other goals.
如果你想想美国移动应用层面在商业模式上的创新，再跟亚洲和WhatsApp对比，说Instagram的收购阻止了类似WhatsApp的商业模式在美国兴起，这可真是个大胆的说法。
And and if you think about the level of business model innovation that's happened at this mobile app layer in The US and compare it to Asia and WhatsApp, Now, it's pretty bold claim to say the acquisition of Instagram prevented the rise of WhatsApp like business models in The US.
不过咱们姑且假设一下这种情况。
But let's just, you know, play this out for a minute.
不好意思。
Sorry.
不是，我的意思是。
No.
微信是怎样的？
What's WeChat.
哦，明白了。
Oh, okay.
抱歉，我刚才说错了。
Apologies.
我刚才想说的是微信。
So I meant WeChat.
是的。
Yeah.
顺便提一下，如果各位还没关注过微信，那真的让人震惊。
As as a quick aside for listeners, if you haven't been reading up on WeChat, it is insane.
我的意思是，
I mean, it
简直太离谱了。
is Absolutely insane.
表面上看它是个聊天应用，但实际上就像一个操作系统，尤其对非技术人员来说，很容易在微信上开发插件，实现各种功能，比如预约医生、接送孩子，全都集成在一个平台里。
It it's on the surface, a messaging app, but it's effectively like an operating system, where it's much easier for, especially non technical folks, to to build a plug in for their business to WeChat that enables all sorts of things from booking doctor's appointments to picking your kids up at school, all within this theoretical testing
在我看来，微信彻底创造了一种全新的、重大的科技商业模式，就是增值服务和生态整合的模式。
of my opinion, WeChat is nothing short of literally the creation of an entirely new major major business model for technology companies, and and that is the value added services and and integrations business model.
在微信出现之前，这简直难以想象。
Before WeChat and this is I mean, it's amazing.
这个产品是免费提供的，不靠广告盈利。
This product is given away for free, not monetized through advertising.
而在中国，这是一个竞争极其激烈的市场，用户变现非常困难，但这款产品据我所知，最新的数据是每个用户每年能带来大约7美元的收入。
And still in China, which is a brutally competitive market where it is very hard to monetize users, this product has I I believe the latest estimates are like a $7 ARPU annual revenue per user in China.
这比推特还高，甚至快赶上脸书了，而那可是靠广告赚钱的平台。
Just more I think more than Twitter and rivaling Facebook, and those are ad platforms.
没错。
Exactly.
这确实非常惊人。
And that is pretty incredible.
我觉得特别了不起的是，在美国，这些新兴的移动产品通常都被大公司收购了，那些公司有更传统的商业模式；但在美国，这种情况其实没怎么发生过。
And what and so what so what I think is amazing is because in The US you've had these new innovative mobile products be acquired by larger companies with older established business models, you haven't seen that happen in The US as much.
当然，还有其他很多因素，比如在中国，移动设备几乎是全民第一台真正普及的计算设备。
Now there are lots of other factors, you know, like in China, there was no, you know, mobile was really the first computing platform to be widely adopted across the whole population.
美国那边有庞大的桌面电脑和传统技术体系作为基础，中国却没有。
There was no legacy desktop product and technology layer like there was in The US.
这一点也起了很大的作用。
That certainly had a lot to do with it too.
但你想想，如果Instagram一直保持独立，我们可能会看到什么样的商业模式创新。
But imagine, you know, what type of business model innovation we might have seen had Instagram remained independent.
对啊。
Mhmm.
我也说不准。
I don't know.
当然，Snapchat也在尝试类似的做法。
And certainly Snapchat is playing with it too.
你是说一系列应用的组合吗？
In terms of, constellation of apps?
指的是商业模式。
In terms of business models.
没错。
Yeah.
确实如此。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
他们那个渠道布局会非常值得观察。
Their their channels thing will be really interesting to watch play out.
各位听众。
Alright, listeners.
现在正好跟大家介绍一下我们非常推崇的一家公司——WorkOS。
Now is a great time to tell you about one of our favorite companies, WorkOS.
正如很多人知道的，现在开发软件的成本已经低到几乎可以忽略不计。
So as many of you know, the cost of building software has collapsed to basically zero.
你甚至一个周末就能做出一个真正能用的产品，代码大部分都是AI写的。
You can build a real working product in a weekend, and AI writes most of the code.
这当然很棒，直到你打算开始卖的时候。
Which is great right up until you wanna start selling it.
因为企业客户根本不关心你用多快做出来的。
Because enterprise buyers don't care how fast you built it.
他们关心的是数据安全，比如单点登录、SCIM、审计日志、基于角色的访问权限，所有这些都得有。
They care about their data, and they care about security, like SSO, SCIM, audit logs, role based access, the entire list.
这些你都没做，因为它们并没有让产品本身变得更出色。
None of which you've built because it didn't make your product any better.
它们只是挡在你和成交之间的一道墙。
It just sits between you and the deal.
而这个鸿沟，现在显得比以往任何时候都更明显。
And that gap has never felt more abrupt.
你从一个想法到做出可用的产品，只用了几天，可现在却要花上好几个月去搞身份验证的底层搭建，大企业才愿意跟你见面。
You went from this idea to a working product in days, and now you're staring down months of authentication plumbing before a large enterprise will even take the meeting.
这正是WorkOS存在的全部意义。
This is the whole reason that WorkOS exists.
没错。
Yep.
他们把那些曾经阻碍你拿下大单的企业级需求，变成了能直接接入的API。
They turn enterprise requirements that previously gated your big deals into drop in APIs.
你们团队一个下午就搞定了企业级单点登录，不用再耗上一个季度，赶紧回去做用户真正想要的产品。
Your team adds enterprise SSO in an afternoon instead of a quarter and gets back to building the thing that people wanted in the first place.
你知道的，比如让你们的啤酒更好喝的那个关键因素。
You know, like, what makes your beer taste better?
你周末搭出来的那个产品，周一就能直接满足企业客户的需求。
The product you built over the weekend really can be ready for the enterprise on Monday.
我们真的和WorkOS团队在旧金山度过了一个特别愉快的晚上，还采访了Claude Code的负责人Boris Cherny。
We, actually got to spend a really fun evening in San Francisco with the WorkOS team doing interviews about this with the head of Claude Code, Boris Cherny.
没错。
Yes.
那真是个很棒的夜晚。
It was, it was an awesome evening.
说到那个晚上，听众朋友们，如果你们想听ACQUIRED UNPLUGED活动的完整对话，可以点击节目说明里的链接，或者直接访问acquired.fm/unplugged。
And speaking of that evening, listeners, if you wanna hear those full conversations from that ACQUIRED UNPLUGED event, you can click the link in the show notes or go to acquired.fm/unpluged.
WorkOS那晚还特别定制了一批ACQUIRED主题的扑克牌，而且还有几副多余的。
And WorkOS also made super cool custom ACQUIRED themed decks of playing cards for the night, and, there are a few extras.
你可以去 shop.workos.com 下单，只要输入代码 ACQDECK，就能免费领取，数量有限，先到先得。
So you can go to shop.workos.com and snag yours as long as you enter the code ACQDECK for free while supplies last.
好的。
Alright.
接下来，我们快速进入一个新环节，这是第二集新增的内容。
New new, we'll we'll move quickly here, but new segment for the show, for episode two.
我们之前已经聊过
We We've already talked about
一点背景音乐
little theme music for
对。
Yeah.
我知道。
I know.
新环节。
New segment.
新环节。
New segment.
我们之前已经聊过很多次了，但对你来说，本，Facebook和Instagram的收购在技术上代表了哪些更宏观的趋势？
What, we've talked about this a bunch already, but, you know, for for you, Ben, what kinda broad themes in technology does the Facebook, Instagram acquisition kinda represent for you?
是的。
Yeah.
你之前跟我提这个新环节的想法时，我就在想这个问题。我觉得你上一个环节把‘应用生态’这个主题讲得特别好。
So I was thinking about this when when you sent me earlier your idea to do the new segment, and I was trying to think you know, I think you did a really nice job in the last segment kinda bringing in the app the app constellation theme.
我觉得另一个值得探讨的主题是，你必须真正掌握住用户群体。
I I think the other theme that this sorta opens up is that you really have to own the audience.
这听起来可能一开始显得很普通，甚至理所当然，但我指的是，在任何分发渠道里，都有供应商、分发路径，然后才是用户。
And that that sounds trivial and and obvious at first, but I think what I mean by that is in any distribution channel, you have suppliers, you have a distribution, and then you have the audience.
随着这些平台的兴起，掌控用户日常消遣、放松时最常使用的默认入口，变得越来越重要。
And with the rise of these services, it's becoming increasingly more important to own the default channel that the users go to for leisure, for distraction, for whatever it is.
因为互联网上的内容几乎是无限的，只要你掌握了这个入口，就能把任何东西直接推给用户。
Because in in the, you know, near infinite nature of the Internet, you can push whatever you want through that channel to reach that audience.
我认为Facebook的核心资产，至今依然如此，就是它成了人们最想去的地方——一打开手机，有空闲时间，不管怎样，第一件事就是去那里消遣。
And I think Facebook's core asset was, and and still sort of is, being that core place where people wanna go and want to the, you know, the first thing you wanna do when you open your phone, when you have some downtime, or whatever it is, you go there to be distracted.
你去那里是为了找乐子。
You go there for fun.
你去那里看朋友，看那些你向往的生活。
You go there to see your friends, to see whatever you aspire to.
掌控了这个入口，你就成了全球最强大的广告平台。
And that owning the channel makes you the most powerful advertising platform in the world.
不仅如此，你还成了世界上最有影响力的各种其他事物的掌控者。
And on top of that, makes you the most powerful a lot of other things in the world.
我们现在就看到了，比如Facebook即时文章，还有其他一些实验性功能。
I mean, we're we're seeing it now with Facebook instant articles and other experiments that we're playing with.
只要你掌握着用户注意力的首发通道，你在商业模式上，以及在别人商业模式里，就能拥有巨大的话语权。
But you can you are a very very powerful force in your business model and to other people's business models if you are the first step in dishing out who gets the attention after you.
我认为Facebook意识到，如果人们转去看Instagram而不是自己，那对方就能往那个信息流里塞任何东西，这简直是个巨大的威胁。
And I think Facebook saw that as an incredible dangerous threat of people who wanna look at Instagram instead of us, and then they can start shoving whatever they want in that feed.
是的
Yeah.
尽管Instagram的模式本意是保持界面清爽，但他们成功地把用户涌入时的第一注意力，巧妙地转化成了广告商愿意投放的地方
Even though that's kinda Instagram's model is to not clutter it up, they've managed to do a really nice job of taking that attention that they're getting as the front door of what you wanna go look at, and and putting that where where advertisers are appropriately putting their
对
Yep.
这正是为什么以广告为商业模式的科技公司，规模、影响力、收入和估值都远超传统广告模式的原因之一
It's a you know, it's I I think this is one of the reasons why technology companies with advertising business models have become so much larger in in terms of of size and reach and revenue and value than, old world advertising models.
我刚入行的时候，接触的全是传统媒体和广告那一套
You know, I started my career, steeped in old world, media and advertising.
我做过媒体科技和媒体投资银行，后来还在《华尔街日报》工作过
You know, I worked in in in media technology and media investment banking, and then I worked at at a newspaper at The Wall Street Journal.
在银行工作时，我主要处理电视和有线网络的业务
And, but but I worked with in when I was in banking, I worked on, television and, cable networks a lot.
他们的内容制作和渠道分发是完全分开的
And and and their content and distribution were separate.
当时的分发公司是有线电视和卫星公司，它们掌控着传输渠道。
You know, the distribution companies were the cable companies and the satellite companies, and they owned the distribution pipe.
内容公司则是那些有线电视频道，比如AMC、各种节目，也就是你在电视上看到的所有频道，这两者是完全分开的。
And the content companies were the cable networks, the AMCs, the scripts, you know, the all the channels that you see on cable TV, and those were two separate things.
而且它们各自都有自己的广告业务。
And they both, had their own advertising.
这两端其实是在共享整个广告市场这块蛋糕。
Kinda they they shared the advertising pie, those two those two stages of the value chain.
尽管电视广告的规模，可能到现在还是比整个网络数字广告要大，但没有任何一家公司能像谷歌或Facebook那样做到如此庞大的体量。
And and and although television advertising was, and perhaps still might be larger than web digital based advertising as a whole, no one company could become as big as a as a Google or as a Facebook has.
因为谷歌和Facebook——至少Facebook通过Instagram，把内容和分发整合在了一家公司、一个App或者一组App里面。
Because Google and Facebook have or at least Facebook has integrated and and through Instagram, integrated content and distribution Yeah.
整合在同一个公司、同一个App，或者一组App之中。
Within one single company, within one single app or constellation of apps.
是的。
Yeah.
他们就是那个渠道。
They are the channel.
我的意思是，当你想社交、放松，或者用到Facebook提供的各种服务——比如活动、聊天这些的时候，你去的地方就是Facebook。
I mean, Facebook is the channel for where you go when you want social or downtime or, you know, the variety of other services that Facebook offers, events and messaging, all that.
没错。
Yep.
而当你有明确需求的时候，你去的地方是Google。
And Google is is where you go when you have intent.
对。
Yep.
所以对我来说，我觉得我们这一期已经聊了不少东西了。
So for me, I I think, you know, we feel we've talked about a few things throughout the episode.
我们简单提到了技术浪潮，这是本和我经常讨论的话题。
You know, we mentioned briefly technology waves, which is something that Ben and I talk a lot about.
这个概念完全可以单独做一期节目。
This concept just do a whole episode.
我们真该做个特别节目，专门聊聊这些技术浪潮。
We should we should do a special episode on on on waves.
但你知道，在科技界，每隔几年就会出现一波新的技术浪潮。
But, but, you know, the concept that in the tech world, there are these waves of technology that come every few years.
我觉得这正是移动浪潮席卷桌面浪潮的完美体现——它带来了一整套全新的公司、内容和产品模式，还有商业模型，这些在至少国内可能还没怎么落地。
And and I think this is a perfect illustration of the wave of mobile coming in and washing over the desktop wave, but bringing with it a whole new, a whole new set of of companies, of content and product models, of business models, that may or may not have been implemented in the at least domestically.
但这只是其中一个。
But that's one.
另一个我最近一直在想的技术趋势，是科技带来的可扩展性和杠杆效应。
And then and then the other one that, you know, I think is something I've been thinking about a lot lately in terms of technology themes, I think is the the scalability and the leverage that technology gives you.
我特别想到的是Instagram的员工人数。
And I'm thinking in particular about the number of employees at Instagram.
这简直让人难以置信。
I mean, this is just incredible.
只有13个员工，却服务着三千万用户。
13 employees with 30,000,000 users.
哦。
Oh.
哦。
Oh.
关于这13个员工，我们还看了下领英，我觉得有11个还在Instagram工作。
And on those 13 employees we were looking on LinkedIn too, I think 11 are still at Instagram.
简直不可思议，这在其他行业可不常见。
Something crazy like that, you know, which is not typical for
没错。
No.
这就是科技的力量。
It's technology.
这又是Facebook收购的一个典型例子。
Yet yet another example of Facebook doing an acquisition.
干得真漂亮。
Doing a great job here.
但这次标志性收购只带来了13名员工，而如今Instagram的用户已经接近四亿了。
But 13 employees at this landmark acquisition, and today, even at, you know, roughly a 150 for 400,000,000 users.
至于Instagram现在到底赚了多少钱，谁也说不准，不过一年前花旗发布过一份非常出色的股权研究报告，当时就给Instagram估值350亿美元。
And it's impossible to know how much revenue Instagram is generating today, but there was a great equity research report put out by Citigroup a year ago, almost a year ago, at which they valued Instagram at $35,000,000,000.
而那时候Instagram的用户还没达到三亿。
And this was when Instagram had not quite 300,000,000 users.
那Facebook的市值是多少？
And what's Facebook's market cap?
我一时想不起来具体数字。
I don't know offhand.
我记得大概在2000亿美元左右。
I wanna say it's right around 200,000,000,000.
是的。
Yeah.
这简直太夸张了。
So, I mean, that's what a ridiculous chunk.
对吧？
Right?
以十亿美元收购的。
Acquired for a billion dollars.
那时候价格还没这么高。
It was less back then.
没错。
Right.
确实。
Right.
那份报告里估计，Instagram的年收入可能达到二十亿美元左右。
And and and and in that report, they estimate that Instagram revenues are are could be on the order of about $2,000,000,000.
这简直太惊人了。
I mean, that's incredible.
就今年。
This year.
对吧？
Right?
是2015年夏天左右，到2016年吧？
Is it 20 I think it was maybe summer twenty fifteen to 2016 or something like that?
是的。
Yep.
今年他们估算的。
This this year, they estimate.
去年花旗集团估计，Instagram在2015年这一年的收入达到了20亿美元。
Last year, Citigroup estimated 2,000,000,000 in revenue for Instagram this year in 2015.
用150个人做到这个规模，简直不可思议。
To do that with a 150 employees is incredible.
还有WhatsApp，那是后来收购的，员工也就五十来人。
And then and then WhatsApp, which, you know, came later, something like 50 some odd employees
对。
Yeah.
你知道的，被以超过两百亿美金的价格收购了。
You know, acquired for 20 plus billion dollars.
我得提一下，拿广告收入来算账其实不太公平，因为他们是搭了Facebook广告系统的便车，这背后肯定需要大量工程师支持。
I I would I I'll I'll raise the the flag here and say, not really fair to do the the revenue calculation for the ad network since they're piggybacking off of Facebook's ad network, and I'm sure that takes a lot of engineers.
说得对。
True.
确实如此。
True.
但我一直在想，科技和科技公司能带来的杠杆效应，跟传统媒体完全没法比。我早年在传统媒体干过，根本没机会享受到这种级别的效率。
But I think about the leverage that is possible with technology and technology companies, versus, again, old world media where where, I I spent time earlier in my career, I mean, nowhere near that kind of leverage that you can get.
好吧。
Alright.
咱们就此收尾吧。
Let's wrap up.
该做总结了？
Conclusion time?
该收尾了。
Conclusion time.
所以是以十亿美元收购的。
So acquired for a billion dollars.
去年十二月，它的外部估值高达三千五百亿美元，这还没算上今年二十亿美元的收入呢。
December of last year, you know, externally valued at 35,000,000,000, even ignoring the the fact that that that's based on, you know, there's 2,000,000,000 in revenues this year.
这可不是在夸大其词。
This is, like, not grasping at straws.
这确实是一个实实在在的盈利产品。
They they this is a very real revenue product.
事实上，被收购的时候，它还没有收入。
And in fact, when it was acquired, I don't think it had revenue.
它当时根本没有广告平台。
They had no ad platform.
被收购后能做成这样，真是了不起。
They had no Pretty incredible what they've done since acquired.
仅这一项资产，收购后的估值倍数就达到了35倍。
35 x multiple post acquisition on that property alone.
更别提它还可能帮助Facebook整个公司更好地向移动方向发展，带来了诸多附加好处。
Not to mention all the ancillary benefits of of potentially steering Facebook as a whole organization in the right direction on mobile.
我的贡献是不是该给个加分？
I mean, do I get a plus?
这确实是个加分项。
It's an a plus.
我知道咱们这节目需要更多不同意见，但说实话，我也觉得该给个加分。
I I was I know we need more disagreement on this show, but, man, a plus for me too.
从估值角度来看，这甚至可能是史上最高的回报案例。
This might this might even be the very from a from a Multiple.
从财务回报的角度看，这可能是科技史上回报最高的收购案。
Return standpoint, even just straight financial returns, this might be the very best acquisition in technology history.
我很好奇。
I'm I'm curious.
有没有哪种情况，规模小到什么程度，还能在三年内实现35倍的回报？真的是三年吗？
Is there ever what is how small of a scale do you have to go down to to get something that was a 35 x multiple in three is it three years?
比如Bungie，也许吧。
I mean, Bungie, perhaps.
这算是个伏笔。
Foreshadowing.
这期节目肯定会很精彩。
That'll be an interesting episode.
对了，各位听众，如果你们有什么建议、想法或者意见，就像我们之前说的，欢迎告诉我们。
By the way, listeners, if you have requests, suggestions, comments, thoughts, as we said, but If you
想到我们还没聊过的公司，也请提一提。
could think of companies we haven't.
请务必发给我们。
That we haven't, please send our way.
我们也特别希望能邀请一些嘉宾来参加这档节目。
We'd also love to have some guests on this show.
说到发送建议，可以用 Twitter。
And by send our way, there's Twitter.
我们的网站上还有一个小反馈表单，你可以通过它提交意见。
There's also a little feedback form on our site where you can submit
我们也非常欢迎嘉宾参与。
We'd also love to have guests.
如果你对历史上某次出色的技术收购有独到见解，不管是亲自参与过，还是作为第三方参与过，想来我们节目聊聊，就给我们发个消息吧。
If you have a particular insight into a a great technology acquisition in history that either, you know, you were part of it directly or you worked on it as part of a third party and you wanna be on our show, shoot us a
消息。
note.
好的。
Cool.
差不多了是吧？
About done here?
我觉得差不多了。
I think we're about
好了。
done.
行了。
Alright.
谢谢大家。
Thanks, everyone.
下次见。
We'll see you next time.
谁掌握了真相？
Who got the truth?
是你吗？
Is it you?
是你吗？
Is it you?
是你吗？
Is it you?
现在谁掌握了真相？
Who got the truth now?
各位听众，大家好。
Alright, listeners.
现在正好聊聊我们非常推崇的一家公司——Statsig。
Now is a great time to talk about one of our favorite companies, Statsig.
没错。
Yes.
我们合作很久了。
Long time acquired partner.
像OpenAI、Notion、Atlassian、Figma、Rippling、Brex这些顶尖团队，无论是在优化核心功能，还是大规模推出AI驱动的体验，都离不开Statsig，这背后自然有他们的道理。
There is a reason why the best product teams at companies like OpenAI and Notion, Atlassian, Figma, Rippling, Brex, and more rely on Statsig, whether they are iterating on their core product features or shipping AI powered experiences at scale.
没错。
Yep.
在今天这个AI飞速发展的时代，快速迭代已经成了基本要求。
In the crazy speed of today's AI world, shipping fast is just table stakes now.
构建和持续部署你的应用其实非常简单。
It's basically trivial to build and deploy your app constantly.
真正的优势在于，你能多快地看出哪些改动真正为用户带来了价值，又多快地用这些数据来指导下一步的开发。
The real advantage is how quickly you learn what changes actually created value for customers and how fast you can use that signal to guide what you ship next.
不管是功能微调、价格变动、性能优化，还是像模型更新或提示词调整这样的AI改动，他们都不靠直觉做决定。
Whether it's a feature tweak, a pricing change, a performance improvement, or an AI update like a model change or prompt adjustment, they're not relying on instinct.
他们靠的是实际数据，看哪些改动真正提升了用户参与度、留存率，最终带动了收入。
They're measuring what actually moved engagement, retention, and ultimately revenue.
随着越来越多团队开始用AI开发，这种快速学习的循环就变得越发关键。
And as more teams build with AI, that learning loop becomes even more important.
使用大语言模型会让产品体验变得不确定。
Building with LLMs introduces nondeterminism into your product experience.
同样的输入不一定产生同样的结果，实际使用中，行为可能会悄悄发生变化。
The same input doesn't always produce the same output, and behavior can shift in subtle ways in real world use.
离线评估能给你一部分信息，但真正要理解影响有多大，还得等产品上线，面对真实用户，才能看到他们的行为到底发生了什么变化。
So doing offline evals will give you part of the picture, but you can really only understand the impact once your product is live with real users, and then you can measure how their behavior actually changes.
这和以前没有AI的时候完全不一样，那时候你很清楚软件上线后会怎么运行。
It's very different than the way that you would ship features in a pre AI world where you knew exactly what the software was gonna do in production.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
这时候Statsig就派上用场了。
So this is where Statsig comes in.
它把实验、功能开关和产品分析整合成一个统一的系统，让团队能安全发布、严谨测试，并直接把改动和用户的真实行为联系起来。
It brings experimentation, feature flags, and product analytics into one unified system so teams can ship safely, test rigorously, and directly link what they changed to how users actually behaved.
结果就是反馈循环更紧密，经验不断积累，你不仅发布得更多，还发布得更好。
The result is a tighter feedback loop and learning that compounds over time, so you don't just ship more, you ship better.
所以，如果你想把持续学习变成你的竞争优势，不管是打造全新的AI体验，还是优化现有的核心产品，都去 statsig.com/acquired 开始吧。
So if you wanna make learning your competitive advantage, whether you're building new AI experiences or just evolving your existing core product, go to statsig.com/acquired to get started.
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