第六集：卢卡斯影业

好了，各位听众。

Alright, listeners.

现在我们要特别感谢Anthropic公司，也就是Claude的开发者。

Now is a great time to thank our friends at Anthropic, the makers of Claude.

这里有一件事，可能ACQIRIED的听众还不知道。

So here's something ACQIRIED listeners may not know.

我们其实一直在用Claude的代码来搭建ACQIRIED本身的基础设施。

We have actually been using Claude code to build infrastructure for ACQIRIED itself.

这让我们能够打造出如果没有Claude就根本不可能实现的听众体验。

This let us create listener experiences that otherwise would not have existed if we did not have Claude.

没错。

Yes.

比如支撑我们YouTube节目字幕的自动转录系统。

Like the transcription pipeline that powers our YouTube episodes.

那套系统就是用Claude的代码写的。

That is Claude code.

对。

Yep.

我们还用它来让Acquired的日常运营效率提升了不少。

And we also use it to run our business here at Acquired much more efficiently.

以前我得手动维护一堆老旧的静态表格，用来追踪下载量，试着从中找规律。

I used to maintain these old static spreadsheets for tracking downloads and trying to draw conclusions.

我们用Claude Code写了一些脚本，把这些表格改成了内部的实时仪表盘，能自动抓取整个节目库的数据和我们每周都看的关键指标，好判断每期节目的表现。

We wrote scripts with Claude Code to turn those into custom internal dashboards that pull in live data across the whole catalog and metrics that we actually look at every week to figure out how episodes are doing.

而且我根本不用靠自己那点早就生疏的编程知识，那都过时很久了。

And I didn't need to rely on any of my old software developer knowledge for this, which is, quite expired at

到现在了。

this point.

谁都能做到。

Anyone can do this.

我只要说清楚需要什么，Claude Code就全帮我搞定了

I just described what I needed, and Claude Code handled

是的。

Yep.

这些可不是原型。

And these are not prototypes.

每次我们发布新节目，自动转录系统都会自动运行。

The transcriber runs on every episode we publish.

仪表盘实时获取数据。

The dashboards pull live data.

这是我们日常运营依赖的核心系统。

This is the production infrastructure that we depend on.

没错。

That's right.

如果你是个开发者，每天花半天时间做那些你只想甩手不管的琐事，ClaudeCode可以直接在终端里运行，读取你的代码库，帮你写测试、重构代码或者调试，全程不用你手把手指导。

And if you are a developer and you're spending half your day on tasks that you wish you could just hand off, ClaudeCode runs in your terminal, reads your code base, and can take on things like writing tests, refactoring, or debugging without you hand holding through every step.

这可不是代码自动补全。

And this isn't autocomplete.

使用 ClaudeCode，你可以给它一个完整的任务，比如修复一个漏洞或开发新功能，它就能独立完成。

With Claude code, you give it an entire task like fixing a bug or building a new feature, and it handles it.

所以，对于值得解决的问题，赶紧去 claude.ai/acquired 开始使用 Claude 吧。

So for problems worth solving, get started with claude at claude.ai/acquired.

欢迎收听《收购》第六期，这档节目聚焦那些真正成功的科技公司并购案例。

Welcome to episode six of ACQUIREED, the podcast where we talk about technology acquisitions that actually went well.

我是本·吉尔伯特。

I'm Ben Gilbert.

我是大卫·罗森塔尔。

I'm David Rosenthal.

我们是你们的主持人。

And we are your hosts.

先说一件小事。

Just a quick, administrative thing.

如果喜欢我们的节目，欢迎在 iTunes 上给我们打个分。

If you like the show, we would love for you to rate us on iTunes.

最近我做了不少关于播客的研究，特别是 iTunes 搜索算法是怎么运作的。

Been doing a lot of research on podcasts recently and kinda how how the iTunes search algorithm works.

如果你喜欢这个节目，也觉得别人会喜欢，我们真的、真的、真的特别希望你能留下一条评价。

And if you like it and you think other people would like it too, we'd love, love, love for you to leave a review.

同样，和往常一样，如果你有任何反馈，欢迎在 Twitter 上关注 ACQUIRED.fm，或者在网站上留言。

And likewise, as always, if you have feedback, hit us up on Twitter at ACQUIRED dot FM, or leave a comment on the website.

对。

Yes.

这周我们聊的内容，可以说正好赶上了热点。

So this week, we are, I'd say we're timely.

不过说实话，我们可能慢了一个月。

We're probably a month late.

我们之前在讨论迪士尼收购卢卡斯影业，以及卢卡斯影业旗下所有IP的事。

We we were talking about the Disney acquisition of Lucasfilm, and all of Lucasfilm's franchises.

本，我是你父亲。

Ben, I am your father.

等等。

Wait.

这没在剧本里啊。

That wasn't in the script.

停！

Cut.

好吧。

Alright.

大卫，你先来介绍一下收购的历史和相关事实。

David, over to you first for acquisition history and facts.

天哪。

Oh, man.

卢卡斯影业。

Lucasfilm.

《星球大战》。

Star Wars.

还能说什么呢？

What more can you say?

乔治·卢卡斯 obviously 创立了卢卡斯影业。

So, George Lucas, obviously, founded Lucasfilm.

1971年在加利福尼亚的圣拉斐尔，这个地方对我和我的家人有特殊意义。

1971 in San Rafael, California, which, has personal significance for me and my family.

我妻子的家乡，我岳父母就住那儿。

It's where my wife is from, where my in laws live.

大卫，你第一次看《星球大战》是在哪儿？

David, where did you watch Star Wars?

我还想说，第七部上映时，我们趁着假期去了科特马德拉的那家影院，那家影院是乔治·卢卡斯亲自参与翻新的，我记得是为了前传上映时改造的。

And I was gonna say episode seven, we went, we went over the holiday break to the theater in Corte Madera that, George Lucas himself, helped renovate, for the I believe for the prequels when they came out.

那是马林县一家单厅影院，效果特别棒。

It's a one screen theater, in Marin, and, it was amazing.

《名利场》上有一篇很棒的文章，讲的就是这家影院和卢卡斯为它做的那些事。

There's a great Vanity Fair article about this theater and and the work that Lucas has done on it.

特别有趣。

Super fun.

七十年代初，卢卡斯创立了卢卡斯影业，公司第一个项目是《美国风情画》，1973年上映。

So '19 early seventies, Lucas, Lucas founds Lucasfilm, and the first project that the company does is American Graffiti, which comes out in 1973.

接下来公司制作的电影是1977年的《新希望》。

And then the next the next film that the company produces, 1977, is A New Hope.

其实当时就叫《星球大战》。

Well, it was Star Wars.

那时候大家都管它叫《星球大战》。

Called Star Wars at the time.

我们现在都叫它《新希望》。

We know it as A New Hope.

在这档播客里，我们就直接叫它《星球大战》，大卫。

On this podcast, it's just called Star Wars, David.

好的，本。

Alright, Ben.

从那以后，这么多年下来，这家公司自己制作的，还有它衍生出来的东西，简直太了不起了。

And and and then since then, over the years, I mean, pretty incredible what this company has has produced both itself and what's come out of it.

我们这已经是第二期聊卢卡斯影业的节目了。

I mean, we've already this is our second episode about a Lucasfilm company.

迪士尼收购的事？

Disney acquisition?

对。

Yeah.

迪士尼收购了卢卡斯影业。

Disney acquisition of a Lucasfilm company.

我本来想提醒你一下，大卫，你可能指的是，皮克斯也是被迪士尼收购的，而且它当初也是从卢卡斯影业分出来的。

I was gonna try and catch you there on, well, David, I think you mean because Pixar was also acquired by Disney, but was also spun out of Lucasfilm.

对。

Yeah.

说到底，你可以说这一切都是从卢卡斯影业开始的。

Well, essentially, I mean, you could argue started at Lucasfilm.

这家公司和它的产品，我认为最初是在卢卡斯影业诞生的。

The the the company and the product itself, I believe, was started at Lucasfilm.

对。

Yeah.

所以我想，他们其实两次试图收购卢卡斯影业。

So I guess, you know, I guess, they just took two shots at acquiring Lucasfilm

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

你知道还有哪些东西原本出自卢卡斯影业，但现在已经不属于公司了？

Do you know what else came out of Lucasfilm that is that is no longer part of the company?

工业光魔。

Industrial Light and Magic?

那个

That

是的。

is Yeah.

那是公司的一部分。

That's part of the company.

这个正是从工业光魔独立出来的。

This came out of Industrial Light and Magic specifically.

我不清楚。

I have no idea.

Photoshop。

Photoshop.

Adobe？

Adobe?

不是Adobe。

Not Adobe.

Photoshop。

Photoshop.

Adobe 是怎么收购 Photoshop 的？

What did Adobe acquire Photoshop?

Adobe 收购了 Photoshop。

Adobe acquired Photoshop.

是的。

Yeah.

还有下一集要出。

Well, there's another episode coming.

对。

Yeah.

两集。

Two.

我记得约翰·诺尔斯当时是 ILM 的员工，他参与了一个电影项目，大概是在夏天的时候。

I believe John I believe John Knowles, was, an employee of ILM and, won, Summer, I believe it was part of a movie project.

我没去网上看完整的背景故事。

I didn't didn't read the full history online.

他需要这款软件，就自己开发了出来，然后卖给了Adobe。

Needed this piece of software, he wrote it and then sold it to Adobe.

真疯狂。

Crazy.

是的。

Yeah.

这家公司相当了不起。

Pretty incredible company.

我觉得迪士尼接下来要做什么，我们心里都有数了。

I think we know what's coming next for Disney.

除了这些著名的部门，卢卡斯影业还拥有《星球大战》《夺宝奇兵》、ILM、天行者音效——这是做影视音效的大机构，还有相当规模的游戏发行和开发部门，被迪士尼收购后，大部分已经外包给了EA；此外还有动画授权业务，以及从卢卡斯影业独立出来的THX公司，专门做消费级音效设备。

Among, so those great, organizations aside, other things that that Lucasfilm, contains, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, ILM, obviously, Skywalker Sound, which is film and TV sound production, quite large video game publishing and and development arm, which now post acquisition has been mostly outsourced to EA by Disney, Animation arm licensing, and and then the other company to come out of Lucasfilm was THX, the sound consumer sound company.

THX这个名字来源于乔治·卢卡斯在电影学院拍的第一部短片，叫《THX 1138》。

Named for George Lucas's first film in film school, THX November.

我之前还真不知道这个。

Did not know that.

所以是收购。

So acquisition.

2011年的时候，这事儿特别有意思，迪士尼世界在佛罗里达的星战模拟器项目正在全面升级，我本人去过好多次，最近一次是今年12月。

In 2011, this is a great story, Star Tours, which, I've done many, many times, most recently, just a few weeks ago in December, was being revamped at Disney World in, in Florida.

乔治·卢卡斯专程飞过去，参加新版本星战模拟器的揭幕仪式。

And George Lucas flies out to come go to the premiere of the new version the new revamped Star Tours ride.

他在那儿跟迪士尼CEO鲍勃·艾格聊天时，提到自己打算退休，可能要把卢卡斯影业卖了。

And, while he's there, he's talking with Bob Iger, the CEO of Disney, and mentions to him that, he's thinking about retiring and maybe selling Lucasfilm.

那应该是2011年的夏天吧。

And, and that was that was summer, I believe, of twenty eleven.

大概一年后，确切说是2012年10月，迪士尼正式宣布收购，价格是41亿美元。

And and then about a year later, a little over a year later, October 2012, Disney announces the acquisition, 4,100,000,000.

真是不小的一笔钱。

Oh, pretty penny.

卢卡斯在采访里说，他从来没想过把公司卖给别人。

And Lucas gives quotes in interviews saying he never dreamed of selling it to anyone else.

他要想把公司卖给别人，确实挺难的。

Would have been pretty hard for him to sell it to anybody else.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

这挺有意思的，我们待会儿会聊聊鲍勃·伊格尔，但说真的，他们之间有不少值得说的往事。

It's interesting because I think the we'll get a little bit into Bob Iger, but, I mean, there's fascinating history there.

他们俩有二十年的交情了，当年鲍勃·伊格尔还在ABC工作的时候，就批准了乔治·卢卡斯的电视剧《少年印第安纳琼斯》，虽然那部剧反响一般，但他还是坚持支持到了第一季结束。

There's a a twenty year old relationship where, Bob Iger was working at ABC and actually greenlit the, the television show Young Indiana Jones for George Lucas, which did not go so well, but he he, kinda stuck with him through at least the first season.

卢卡斯和伊格尔之间一直有份信任和情谊，正是这份默契，最终把他们带到了今天这一步。

And I I there's always goodwill between, between Lucas and and the trust that he and he and Iger had that that, eventually kinda led them here.

是的。

Yeah.

不过有意思的是，我们一开始做这期节目的调研时才发现，迪士尼为了收购卢卡斯影业，花了41亿美元，获得了包括我们刚才提到的那些资产，比如工业光魔和天行者音效，这些当时都还没拆分出去。

Interestingly though, and I didn't realize this till we started researching this episode, Disney, obviously spends 1 point $4,100,000,000 to acquire Lucasfilm and acquires a lot within that, all the properties we just mentioned, ILM and Skywalker Sound and whatnot that hadn't been spun out.

但《星球大战》原始电影的发行权一直掌握在福克斯手里，现在还是。

But the distribution rights to the original Star Wars movies were held by Fox and still are.

天哪，真的吗。

Oh, wow.

所以迪士尼这次收购，其实是在为未来下重注。

So Disney was really making a big bet on the future with this acquisition.

是的。

Yeah.

因为买下这个现成的摇钱树，理由很充分。

Because it's easy to to justify buying that existing cash cow.

这些电影根本不可能停播，几乎是板上钉钉的事。

You know, there's there's pretty much no chance that those movies are stop.

如果在《原力觉醒》上映前你买过相关产品，现在举个手。

Raise your hand if in anticipation of The Force Awakens you Purchased.

数字版的《星球大战》系列我全买了。

Per digital purchased the the Star Wars collection.

我当时把手举得高高的。

It was the my hands in the air.

我们俩都买了。

Both of us.

我上 iTunes 看的时候，发现唯一能买的就是那种超贵的三部曲收藏版数字套餐。

Well, I I went to watch it on iTunes, and the only way that I could do it was, like, some massive three pack collector's edition, really expensive digital download.

我的意思是，他们……

I mean, they

我在亚马逊买了全套六部的。

I sprung for the six pack on Amazon.

真不错。

Oh, nice.

那我通过 Apple TV 在苹果上买的，是跟福克斯有关的吗？

So so that when I bought that through Apple on Apple TV, is that through Fox?

我们又看了第四、五、六部，这笔钱其实都流到福斯了。

That money's going to Fox watching we watched four, five, and six again.

其实这么说也不完全对。

Actually, this isn't fully true.

我看过无特别版，不过这个话题我就不展开了。

I had I watched the despecialized editions, but also I'm not gonna get into that.

这确实是个问题。

That's a problem.

但这也太离谱了。

But, yeah, that's crazy.

所以福斯其实是在趁机赚钱。

So Fox was actually capitalizing

趁着这个机会，福斯赚了不少钱。

on Fox that opportunity.

我敢打赌，在《原力觉醒》上映前，福斯赚得盆满钵满。

I I gotta imagine Fox made a significant amount of money in the lead up to The Force Awakens.

那笔收入不包括那些原始角色的周边商品吧？你知道吗？

That doesn't include, that do you know if that includes merch from those original characters?

比如说，他们要是卖汉·索罗的玩具，那也算在内吗？

Like, you're selling if they're selling a episode for Han Solo toy.

是的。

Yeah.

这问题问得好。

That's a good question.

我觉得这事儿在维基百科关于收购的条目里有提到，不过戴维给我布置作业了。

I, I think this is on the Wikipedia article about the acquisition, but David's giving me homework.

对。

Yeah.

给大家都布置了作业。

Giving us all homework.

我看到上面说，至少第四集有个特别安排，福克斯可能连那些衍生权利也一并拿到了。

I I read in there that, that at least for episode four I think there's a special deal for episode four that Fox might be even getting those ancillary rights as well.

好了，各位听众。

Alright, listeners.

现在是个绝佳的机会，来感谢我们非常喜爱的一家公司——Sentry。

This is a great time to thank one of our favorite companies, Sentry.

S-E-N-T-R-Y，就像一位站岗守卫的人。

That's s e n t r y, like someone standing guard.

待会儿我们会为ACQUIRED的听众准备一份特别福利。

And we have something special for the ACQIARED community to share here in a minute.

没错。

Yes.

Sentry 帮助开发者排查错误和延迟问题，几乎任何软件故障都能提前发现并解决，避免用户发火。

Sentry helps developers debug errors and latency issues, pretty much any software problem, and fix them before users get mad.

正如他们官网所说，超过四百万名软件开发者都认为它‘不错’。

As their homepage puts it, they are considered, quote, unquote, not bad by over 4,000,000 software developers.

今天我们要聊的是 Sentry 如何与 ACQUIRED 宇宙中的另一家公司 Anthropic 合作。

Today, we are talking about the way that Sentry works with another company in the acquired universe, Anthropic.

Anthropic 以前用的是旧的基础设施监控系统，但考虑到他们规模庞大、架构复杂，最终选择了 Sentry，以便更快地解决问题。

Anthropic used to have some older infrastructure monitoring in place, but at their massive scale and complexity, they instead adopted Sentry to help them fix issues faster.

没错。

Yep.

在人工智能领域，崩溃可能带来严重后果。

Crashes can be a massive problem in AI.

如果你正在运行一个大型计算任务，比如训练模型，一旦某个节点出问题，可能会影响成百上千台服务器。

If you're running a huge compute job like training a model and one node fails, it can affect hundreds or thousands of servers.

Sentry 帮助他们及时发现硬件故障，从而在引发连锁反应前把问题硬件剔除掉。

Sentry helped them detect bad hardware so they could quickly reject it before causing a cascading problem.

Sentry 还让他们能把原本要花好几天才能定位的大问题，缩短到几小时内解决，这样就能尽快恢复训练任务。

Sentry also enabled them to debug massive issues in hours instead of days so they could get back to their training runs.

如今，Anthropic 依赖 Sentry 实时追踪异常、分配错误，并分析研究团队所用主要编程语言——包括 Python、Rust 和 C++ ——中的故障情况。

And today, Anthropic relies on Sentry to track exceptions, assign errors, and analyze failures in real time across all the primary languages used by Anthropic's research teams, including Python, Rust, and c plus plus.

据 Anthropic 团队说，Sentry 让开发人员能在一个地方找到解决任何问题所需的全部信息。

According to the Anthropic team, Sentry gives our developers one place that will have all the information they need to debug an issue.

说到AI，Sentry现在推出了一款名为SEER的AI调试工具。

And speaking of AI, Sentry now has an AI debugger called SEER.

SEER是一个AI助手，它能结合Sentry中的问题上下文和你的代码库，不只是猜测，而是直接定位那些棘手问题的根本原因，并为你量身提供可以直接合并的修复方案。

SEER is an AI agent that taps into the issue context from Sentry and your code base to not just guess, but root cause gnarly issues and propose merger ready fixes specific to your application.

我们非常高兴能和Sentry合作。

We're pumped to be working with Sentry.

他们的客户名单非常亮眼，不仅有Anthropic，还有Cursor、Vercel、Linear等等。

They have an incredible customer list, including not only Anthropic, but Cursor, Vercel, Linear, and more.

如果你也想像超过二十万家使用Sentry的公司一样快速修复代码问题——从独立开发者到全球顶尖企业——可以访问sentry.io/acquired了解详情。

And if you wanna fix broken code fast like over 200,000 other organizations that use Sentry from indie hobbyists to some of the biggest companies in the world, you can check out sentry.io/acquired.

最后提一下，我们的朋友Sentry将在今年九月于旧金山举办官方的Acquired线下聚会。

And one last thing, our friends at Sentry are hosting the official Acquired meetup in San Francisco this September.

想了解更多并第一时间获取活动时间，请访问sentry.io/acquired/meetup。

To learn more and get notified about dates, visit sentry.io/acquired/meetup.

我们真的特别期待。

We're so pumped.

我们真期待在那里见到你们很多人。

We can't wait to see so many of you there.

好了，我们继续回到节目。

And now back to the show.

那咱们接着聊

Well, you wanna keep going with the

我们继续吧。

Let's keep going.

本，你认为这属于哪个类别？

So, Ben, what's your category?

提醒一下，我们有人员、技术、产品、业务线，还有万能的‘其他’类别。

So As a reminder, we've got people, technology, product, business line, and the all powerful other.

从短期来看，这是一次产品收购，但从长远来看，它的意义要大得多。

This to me is a product acquisition in the near term, but it's a lot more in the kind of far reaching future.

你看迪士尼从皮克斯学到了东西，后来在迪士尼创意工作室，而不是皮克斯，做出了《冰雪奇缘》，并把它作为公司核心，取得了惊人的成功，票房大概十几亿，差不多就是这个数。

I mean, the way that Disney learned from Pixar and was able to produce in Disney Creative Studios, not in Pixar, Frozen, and put that at the center of the company and and have that insane catch, like, 1,400,000,000 or something, 1.3, so somewhere in there.

《冰雪奇缘》真是个赚钱机器。

Insane cash cow in Frozen.

迪士尼从这次收购中学到了经验，却没有过度干预皮克斯，这完全是罗伯特·伊格尔的功劳。

You know, Disney learned from that acquisition without messing with Pixar too much, and that is a Bob Iger thing.

我的意思是，确实如此。

I mean, I think that Yep.

罗伯特·伊格尔接替迈克尔·艾斯纳当上CEO后，很大程度上把公司带回了最初的初心。

When Bob Iger took over for Michael Eisner as CEO, he's largely returning to the company's roots.

还有一张特别棒的图表，展示了迪士尼的商业模式、生态系统思维，以及所有业务如何相互关联。

And that there's this incredible diagram that shows Disney's business model and their the the ecosystem thinking and how everything goes and everything else.

我们应该把这张图链接放上去。

We should link to this Yeah.

在线上和推特上都放一下。

Online and in In Twitter.

已经放到节目笔记里了。

It's put in the show notes.

太棒了。

Awesome.

没错。

Yeah.

在推特上也一样。

And on Twitter.

这简直太惊人了。

It's it's it's amazing.

比如，任何曾经被推销过公司、却疑惑过‘客户粘性’在哪里的人。

Like, any any anybody who's ever been pitched a company and wondered, oh, what's the lock in?

网络效应又是什么？

What are the network effects?

这家公司是怎么构建护城河的？

You know, how how does this company build a moat around itself?

迪士尼拥有一个不可思议的生态系统，所有部分都相互衔接，而这个系统的核心——正如图中所示——就是那些出色的长片内容。

Disney has this unbelievable ecosystem where everything flows into each other, and the the center of the whole thing, as as illustrated in this diagram, is phenomenal content in feature length films.

这一点他们忽视了很久。

And that's something that's escaped them for a a long time.

你看一下Yep这家公司就知道了。

I mean, you look at Yep.

现在看迪士尼的收入，有一半来自有线电视子公司，也就是他们从你订阅电视服务时收取的费用。

If you look at Disney's revenues right now, one half are from cable subsidiaries, from affiliate money that they get when, you know, you're

ESPN大概占了九成。

Probably 90% is ESPN.

是的。

Yeah.

占一半。

50%.

差不多有

Like, a little

超过一半。

over 50%.

对。

Yeah.

不过你知道的，ESPN占了迪士尼四分之一的收入，而且每年都在发生用户取消有线电视订阅的情况，这笔钱正在流失。

But, you know, ESPN is is a quarter of Disney's revenue, and if you look every year, it's cord cutting, money's going away.

这种模式不可持续，而且已经远远偏离了迪士尼最初的根基。

That feature was not sustainable, and it was drifting far from Disney's original roots.

所以，把优质的内容和长片电影重新放回商业模式的核心，对迪士尼来说是一次彻底的转向，也是鲍勃·艾格上任后掀起的一系列变革的一部分。

So putting incredible content and feature length films back at the center of the business model is a total change of direction for Disney and and something that Bob Iger really kinda came in and shook everything up and and and did.

他把很多自主权都下放给了各个独立团队。

And he gave a lot of autonomy to all the individual groups.

所以你知道，皮克斯被允许放手去做，卢卡斯影业也被放任去施展拳脚。真正厉害的地方在于，如果他们能做成，那就是反向收购那些创造出卓越内容的核心能力，让他们在内部持续产出高质量作品。

So, you know, the way that Pixar was left alone, the way that Lucasfilm was left to do its thing, The the incredible long term thing, if they can pull it off, is sort of reverse acquiring the things that made that incredible content and letting them produce incredible content in house.

因为现在他们虽然买下了星球大战这个IP，但还没能稳定地证明——当然这需要很长时间——他们能否把造就这些内容卓越的核心能力吸收过来，变成自己未来能独立制作的能力。

Because right now, they they bought the Star Wars product, but they have not sustainably proven, and of course, this takes a lot of time, that they can now take the muscle of what that made that content incredible and and make that something that is something they can produce on their own in the future.

对。

Yeah.

你提到的这几个观点，我最近也在反复琢磨。

You're raising a couple interesting themes that I I've been noodling on about this.

一方面，我有点困惑，你刚才说的是产品，未来是指业务线吗？

So one, I would my my category so you said prod you said products today and business line in the future?

或者

Or

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得还是用‘产品’更贴切，但更关键的是那种反向渗透的现象，就像苹果之于皮克斯。

I guess, you know, I think it sticks with product, but I think it's that that sort of reverse infection thing, like the the apple to next.

就是那种让迪士尼、皮克斯和卢卡斯影业真正独特的‘产品基因’。

Like, can can the the the productiness the productness that makes Disney and and and, or that makes Pixar and Lucasfilm what they are.

你也可以把它们都归到这一类里，没错。

And I guess you could throw them all around there Yeah.

也包括其他方面。

Too.

就像

Like

我们迟早得把这部三部曲补全，再做一套漫威的。

We might have to do a, complete the trilogy here at some point and do Marvel.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

The yeah.

有意思的是，迪士尼收购漫威的价钱，几乎和收购卢卡斯影业时一模一样。

Interestingly, just almost about the same price that Disney paid for Marvel as they did for Lucasfilm.

得专门做一期聊聊这个。

Have to do an episode on that.

归根结底，我觉得核心还是产品——他们拿到了这些产品，但最终能证明这一连串收购和商业策略成功的，是迪士尼能不能重新练回本事，未来自己持续打造出各种顶级内容？

So, at the end of the day, I think it's product, that they get this product, but the ultimate thing that will prove that this this spree of acquisitions and this business strategy was successful is, can Disney reacquire that muscle to build their own incredible content on of all types henceforth?

对。

Yep.

而且，我觉得我基本上也是这么想的。

And, you know, I think, I basically think the same thing.

我原本想说的是，这其实是一次产品收购。

My my frame on it that I was gonna say is is this is a product acquisition.

但这个产品本身，其实是驱动迪士尼飞轮运转的核心动力。

But what the product is is the product is the juice that flows through the the Disney flywheel.

本刚才提到的那个图示，是沃尔特·迪士尼亲手画的。

And this diagram that Ben was talking about, Walt Disney illustrated it by hand.

真的挺漂亮的。

It's actually it's beautiful.

里面有米奇和米妮。

There's Mickeys and Minis

还有转场分镜，画得真不错。

and Turns up panels a good illustrator.

是的。

Yeah.

贯穿整个体系。

All throughout it.

但这是一份极其出色的企业战略文档。

But it's this amazing document of of business strategy.

它本质上就是一个飞轮。

And and and and what it is is a flywheel.

过去几个月我一直在深入思考飞轮效应，灵感来自《一切皆商店》这本书，读完之后不断琢磨亚马逊和亚马逊的飞轮模式。

I've been thinking a lot about flywheels over the past few months inspired by inspired by The Everything Store, reading The Everything Store and thinking about Amazon and the Amazon flywheel.

简单来说，飞轮就是如何在企业中构建一种动态机制：当你推动其中一个环节，整个系统都会随之加速。

And and the the definition basically being, you know, how do you create this dynamic in a business where you've got different pieces of the business, and if you push on one piece of the business, it accelerates the whole system.

比如亚马逊，低价吸引更多的消费者，消费者增多又吸引更多供应商入驻平台，平台规模扩大后就能对供应商施加更大议价权，从而进一步压低价格，吸引更多消费者，带来更多供应商和更强议价权，如此循环往复。

So like in Amazon, it's, you know, lower prices lead to more consumers, which lead to more suppliers in the marketplace, which, and leads to more leverage over those suppliers, which enables you to charge lower prices, which gets you more consumers, which gets you more suppliers and more leverage and on and on and on and on.

对于迪士尼来说，那个实际的图示相当复杂，但核心节点很清晰——用媒体行业的话说，就是电影和重磅IP，这要追溯到我当年做媒体投资银行的时候，内容和IP系列居于中心，再延伸到主题乐园、游乐设施、电视、音乐、周边商品、出版物，比如漫画书，所有这些都围绕这个系统运转。

For Disney, you know, the the actual diagram is quite complicated, but the nodes in their business are films and tentpole, to use the media industry term, going way back to my days as a media investment banker here, content and and franchises at the center, and then the parks and the rides and television and music and merchandising and and publications, you know, comic books, and and everything flowing through that system.

所以在我看来，《星球大战》就像是为这个系统量身打造的一辆绝佳动力车。

And so to me, Star Wars is, like, just a great juice is probably the wrong word, but, like, a a great car to put on that track.

是的

Yeah.

我也喜欢这种思考方式。

I like that way of thinking about it too.

好的。

Alright.

下一部分。

Next section.

科技主题？

Techno themes?

否则会怎么样呢？

What would have happened otherwise?

对，没错。

Oh, yeah.

我们差点跳过这一段，但我认为这里挺有意思的。

Which we almost skipped, but I think could be interesting here.

我肯定大卫和我想法完全一致。

I'm sure David and I totally agree.

否则会怎么样呢？

What would have happened otherwise?

所以卢卡斯把这个压了好久，具体多久我也说不准。

So Lucas sat on this for, I don't know how long.

从四十年前就开始了。

From Forty years.

是的。

Yeah.

但从1997年他开始就说，根本没计划拍续集三部曲。

But from he started saying in '97, no plans to make the sequel trilogy.

你知道，我已经拍完了原版三部曲。

You know, I've made the original

把《星球大战》搁置了。

Sat on Star Wars.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

意思是，自1997年以来我们啥都没看到，他却一直坚决说，我绝不会再拍任何《星球大战》了，诸如此类的话。

Mean, that we haven't seen anything since since 1997, and he's been adamantly saying, I will never produce more Star Wars, blah blah blah blah blah.

他还一直说。

And he's also been saying

我很庆幸他没拍。

I'm glad he didn't.

《鸭子总动员》。

Howard the Duck.

他不仅说不拍，还说绝不把版权卖给任何人。

And not only that saying that he wouldn't, but saying that, he wouldn't license into anyone else either.

我觉得，也许这种态度撑不了多久，这东西价值太大了，迟早会回头再榨一榨，他们迟早会卖给别人。

And, you know, I I think that maybe that's just, like, that'll wear out over time, this thing has too much value not to go back and remilk, and they would have sold it to somebody else.

但我认为当时的特殊情况很独特，迪士尼收购正是出于它未来的新战略——卢卡斯影业和迪士尼之间早有信任基础，不仅体现在与艾格的关系上，还在于他们亲眼看着乔布斯从卢卡斯手里接过皮克斯，专注产品、亲力亲为，还刻意保持独立，之后又看到迪士尼能为它提供庇护。

But I think the circumstances were unique, that this is exactly the sort of thing that Disney was was acquiring as part of its new strategy going forward, that there was a relationship and trust there from from Lucasfilm, not only with, the relationship with Eiger, but also, you know, that, you know, they they watched, Lucas watched Jobs take Pixar from him, be extremely product focused about it, very hands on, and very intentional to keep that thing separate, and then watch the fact that Disney was able to shelter it.

当迪士尼能保持它的独立性，同时呵护它最独特的地方时，我觉得卢卡斯不会轻易把信任交给谁，他肯定不会把这交给一个他觉得不会维持这种形态的人。

And when Disney was able to keep that thing separate and nurture what made it special, and, you know, I don't I get the sense that Lucas doesn't have that trust lightly, that this wouldn't have been sold to someone that he didn't feel would would, you know, keep it in that sort of form.

所以这件事是迟早要发生的吗？

So this was inevitable?

我不觉得非得是迪士尼，但要说换成别的公司，我真很难想象还能有这种安排。

Well, I don't think it would have been Disney or no one, but I it's hard to imagine this falling into place with a company other than Disney.

你能想象福克斯拥有《星球大战》吗？

Could you imagine Fox owning Star Wars?

我的意思是，这跟五年前说‘你能想象迪士尼拥有《星球大战》吗？’一样疯狂。

Well, the I mean, what if I mean, this is that's just as crazy as five years ago saying, can you imagine Disney owning Star Wars?

是的。

Yeah.

但说真的，迪士尼和卢卡斯影业一直以来关系都很紧密。

But but, I mean, like, there was Disney and Lucasfilm have always had a tight relationship.

还有星战巡游这个项目呢。

I mean, there's the Star Tours ride.

还有印第安纳·琼斯的游乐设施。

There's the Indiana Jones rides.

你懂的。

You know?

会不会其实卢卡斯影业根本不会再拍新电影了，乔治·卢卡斯直接退休了？

It possible that, Lucasfilm would just not have produced more films, that George Lucas would have retired?

光靠周边产品就能赚得盆满钵满。

It would have made boatloads of money off the merch

还有ILM呢。

for ILM.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，它早就不是一家主要拍电影的公司了。

And, like, it's just not a company that produced films anymore.

它已经停摆了

It was a defunct

是的

Yeah.

这挺有意思的

It's interesting.

对吧

Right?

如果你把收购看作一种投资方式——本来就应该这么看——那它确实是大多数公司都做得不好的一种投资

And that kinda gets to, if you think about acquisitions as a form of investing, which they should be, it's just one that most companies tend to be pretty bad at.

投资的核心在于发现被低估的资产

You know, at the core of investing is about identifying it's about identifying mispriced assets.

比如迪士尼、鲍勃·艾格，还有迪士尼那支著名的科技与战略团队、并购团队，他们看着卢卡斯影业，当时这家独立公司估值是41亿美元

And so if you if you're Disney, Bob Iger, and Disney's famed technology and and strategy group and m and a group, and you're looking at Lucasfilm, and the worth of Lucasfilm sitting there as an independent entity was x, call it 4,100,000,000.

但这个价格，相对于卢卡斯影业潜在的机会，真的被低估了吗？

But was that mispriced relative to the opportunity, that Lucasfilm had?

我觉得吧，从《原力觉醒》就能看出来，我真的很期待，而且有个不太公开的秘密——我们不用等太久就能看到星球大战主题乐园，还有他们已经公布的那些衍生电影，全都陆续要来了。

I think, you know, if if The Force Awakens is any indication, and and, you know, he I I think that the not so secret secret in, that I am just, like, beyond excited about is, you know, we're not gonna have to wait too long to see Star Wars land and and, all the spin off movies that they've already announced and everything coming down the pipe.

我不确定。

I don't know.

哦，这里我要剧透一下，得先提醒你。

I mean, oh, this is the part where I'm gonna say, there's a spoiler alert.

如果你不想被剧透，现在可以暂停一下播客。

So here's a couple seconds if you'd like to turn the podcast off.

如果迪士尼没收购卢卡斯影业，也没人收购，让它一直搁置着，那汉·索罗就永远不会死。

If Disney didn't acquire Lucasfilm and no one did and it laid dormant, then we would have Han Solo forever, and Han Solo wouldn't be dead.

是的。

Yeah.

这真让人难过。

That's so sad.

其实我做研究的时候发现，迪士尼接下来要拍的第二部星球大战衍生电影，是关于汉·索罗的传记片。

Well, you know, the I I saw in doing research for this, I I think the second Star Wars spin off movie that Disney's gonna make is a a Han Solo Chronicle.

是的

Yeah.

第一部是《侠盗一号》，第二部就是这部以汉·索罗为主角的编年史电影。

The first being Rogue One and the second being the first of the Chronicles following Han Solo.

天啊。

Man.

这简直太惊人了。

So that's that's kind of amazing.

我的意思是，到2020年之前，我们已经排好了五部电影。

I mean, we we we've got five films queued up before 2020.

咱们来回顾一下《原力觉醒》到目前为止的票房表现吧。

I mean, let's let's review the finances so far from The Force Awakens.

它目前已经赚了17.8亿美元。

So already, it's made 1,780,000,000

这太不可思议了。

on That's incredible.

是的

Yeah.

今天是1月14号，我们正在录制。

Recording this on January 14.

这个数字包含了国内和国际票房，还没算周边收入。

That's including domestic and international, not including any merch.

不到一个月。

Less than one month.

对。

Yeah.

纯粹是票房收入。

Just box office receipts.

成本才两亿美元。

On a 200,000,000 budget.

如果你看看整个前传三部曲，那确实很惊人。

Now if you look at the prequels as a whole, remember That's amazing.