Acquired - 以太坊 封面

以太坊

Ethereum

本集简介

我们以迄今为止在《Acquired》节目中报道过的最具雄心的组织——以太坊及其明星天才创始人维塔利克·布特林——来为第八季画上句号。如果你觉得马克·扎克伯格在27岁就以1000亿美元估值将Facebook上市已经够惊人了,那等你听到这个高中生在同样年纪创造了5000亿美元(!!)市值的故事时,你会更加震撼——而且,他或许还悄然埋下了未来颠覆Facebook、Google、Amazon以及整个科技巨头的种子。无论你是加密货币新手、铁杆多头,还是怀疑论者,这个故事你都必须听,这项创新你都必须理解。系好安全带,准备迎接一场惊险旅程……以及几位《Acquired》朋友带来的特别惊喜。 :) 赞助商: WorkOS: https://bit.ly/workos25 Sierra: https://bit.ly/acquiredsierra Sentry: https://bit.ly/acquiredsentry Anthropic: https://bit.ly/acquiredclaude25 更多《Acquired》内容! 获取电子邮件更新,了解下一期预告及近期节目后续 加入Slack群组 订阅ACQ2 周边商店! © Copyright 2015-2025 ACQ, LLC 链接: 以太坊白皮书:https://ethereum.org/en/whitepaper/ Yung Spielburg https://open.spotify.com/artist/273so0X2Yuo93vfeX2nLDI 和 Mike Taylor https://open.spotify.com/artist/30ejUciK31BCg0IVCbt1dW 在Spotify上 特别推荐: 亚瑟·克拉克:https://www.amazon.com/Arthur-C-Clarke/e/B000APF21M?(尤其是《与拉玛相会》和《城市与群星》) 迪士尼-漫威《洛基》:https://www.disneyplus.com/series/loki/6pARMvILBGzF 尼尔·斯蒂芬森《钻石时代》:https://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Age-Illustrated-Primer-Spectra/dp/0553380966 《尼尔:机械纪元》:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nier:_Automata 现实中的万智牌:https://magic.wizards.com/en/events/event-types/friday-night-magic

双语字幕

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Speaker 0

尽管还不是第九季,我们该不该用新的主题曲呢?

Should we do the new theme music even though it's not season nine yet?

Speaker 1

我觉得我们应该用。

I think we should.

Speaker 0

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 0

我们就这么办吧。

Let's do it.

Speaker 0

好的。

Alright.

Speaker 0

我们就这么办吧。

Let's do it.

Speaker 1

特别集。

Special episode.

Speaker 0

我们就这么办吧。

Let's do it.

Speaker 0

欢迎收听Acquired播客第八季第八期,本节目聚焦于伟大的科技公司及其背后的故事与操作手册。

Welcome to season eight episode eight of Acquired, the podcast about great technology companies and the stories and playbooks behind them.

Speaker 0

我是本·吉尔伯特,同时也是位于西雅图的Pioneer Square Labs的联合创始人兼管理合伙人,以及我们的风险投资基金PSL Ventures。

I'm Ben Gilbert, and I am the cofounder and managing director of Seattle based Pioneer Square Labs and our venture fund, PSL Ventures.

Speaker 0

Ventures。

Ventures.

Speaker 1

我是大卫·罗森塔尔,一名来自旧金山的天使投资人。

And I'm David Rosenthal, and I am an angel investor based in San Francisco.

Speaker 1

但今天,我亲自来到西雅图,和你们面对面。

But today, I am here with you in Seattle, in the flesh.

Speaker 0

亲自到场。

In the flesh.

Speaker 0

我们是你们的主持人。

And we are your hosts.

Speaker 0

首先,我们要特别感谢施皮尔伯格和迈克·泰勒为本集创作了这段全新的开场音乐。

Well, first, we wanna give a huge shout out to Spielburg and Mike Taylor for crafting this new intro music that, we used to open this episode.

Speaker 0

我们多年来一直想为节目做些特别的东西,能和他们两人合作真是非常愉快。

We have been wanting for years to do something distinctive for the show, and it was a real treat to work with both of them on this.

Speaker 0

我们提供了他们优秀作品的链接,可以在 Spotify 上收听,也非常喜欢这两位艺术家。

And, we have links to both of their fine work, on Spotify, and just love both of these artists.

Speaker 1

他们做得太棒了。

They killed it.

Speaker 1

我太兴奋了。

I am so pumped.

Speaker 0

我也是。

Me too.

Speaker 0

我们本季以第一期关于比特币的区块链节目开场。

Well, we started this season with our first blockchain episode covering Bitcoin.

Speaker 0

因此,以以太坊作为本季的收官之作显得再合适不过。

It seems only appropriate to bookend it with the season finale on Ethereum.

Speaker 0

所以,大卫和我今天亲自到场,一起来讲述这个故事。

So David and I are here together in person to tell this story.

Speaker 0

正如大家从我们的比特币一期节目中所知,比特币是货币、价值储存和交换媒介的某种组合,但这些功能究竟是否发挥得好,实际上仍存在争议。

And as you all know from our Bitcoin episode, Bitcoin is some combination of currency, a store of value, a medium of exchange, which all frankly are up for debate if it's doing a good job at any or all of those things.

Speaker 0

正如过去六年中购买或出售过加密货币的许多人所知,以太坊(ETH)——以太坊网络中使用的代币——已成为另一个重要的玩家。

And as many of you who have bought or sold cryptocurrencies over the last six years know, there has been a big second game in town with Ether, ETH, the token used as a currency in the Ethereum network.

Speaker 0

但这一次,它不再仅仅关乎货币。

But this time, it's not just about currency.

Speaker 0

以太坊是完全不同的东西。

Ethereum is something completely different.

Speaker 0

你可以把它看作是一台全球分布、完全去中心化的巨型计算机。

You can think of it more as a gigantic distributed computer that exists all around the globe in a completely decentralized way.

Speaker 1

它是全球计算机。

It's the world computer.

Speaker 0

没错。

It is.

Speaker 0

它是一台单一的虚拟机,同时运行在数百万个CPU上,尽管这台虚拟机运行得非常缓慢。

It is one single virtual machine that runs across millions of CPUs all at the same time, albeit one very slow virtual machine.

Speaker 0

有充分的理由认为,这台庞大、防篡改、抗审查的计算机可能是过去十年最重要的发明,为未来几十年科技公司的发展奠定了基础。

There is a strong argument to be made that this enormous tamper proof, censorship proof computer is maybe the most important invention of the last decade, laying the groundwork for technology companies to come for the next several decades.

Speaker 0

尽管在以太坊的世界里,到处都是可爱的小猫和彩虹,但也发生过一些极其疯狂的故事,才让我们走到今天。

And while there are kittens and rainbows everywhere you look in Ethereum land, there were some absolutely wild stories that transpired to bring us to where we are today.

Speaker 0

这件事在过去一年里可谓跌宕起伏,正如你们大多数人所知,一年前它的市值大约为200亿美元。

This thing has had a pretty wild last year, as as most of you will will know, having a market cap twelve months ago at around 20,000,000,000.

Speaker 0

今年早些时候,它的市值已飙升至4500亿美元,在短短十二个月内,以太坊经历了一个非凡的年份。

Earlier this year at 450,000,000,000, sort of in the same twelve month stretch, it's been a heck of a year for Ethereum.

Speaker 1

这一年对很多事情来说都非同寻常。

This has been a heck of a year for a lot of things.

Speaker 0

可不是嘛。

No kidding.

Speaker 0

你是Slack的忠实用户吗?

Well, are you an acquired Slack member?

Speaker 0

如果不是,那你真该试试。

If not, you should.

Speaker 0

除了我们通常提到的那些正常原因外,我敢肯定这一集会在数字资产频道引发非常热烈的讨论。

And aside from all the normal reasons that we usually point out, I'm sure this episode will have quite a vibrant digital assets channel discussion.

Speaker 0

这是初学者和对加密货币有所了解的人进行深入交流的绝佳方式。

It's a great way for beginners and the sort of crypto aware alike to have great conversations.

Speaker 0

和往常一样,你可以通过 acquired.fm/slack 加入该频道。

And, as always, you can join that at acquired.fm/slack.

Speaker 0

再次感谢听众 Austin Fedra 精心维护这个频道,并在我们准备这一集的过程中协助了多次讨论。

Another thank you to listener Austin Fedra for curating that channel and for helping with several discussions as we prepared for this episode.

Speaker 0

好了,各位听众。

Alright, listeners.

Speaker 0

现在是时候感谢我们在 Acquired 最喜欢的公司之一——Sentry 了。

This is a great time to thank one of our favorite companies here at Acquired, Sentry.

Speaker 0

S-E-N-T-R-Y,就像一个站岗守卫的人。

That's s e n t r y, like someone standing guard.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yes.

Speaker 1

Sentry 帮助开发者调试错误和延迟问题,几乎可以解决任何软件问题,并在用户生气之前修复它们。

Sentry helps developers debug errors and latency issues pretty much any software problem and fix them before users get mad.

Speaker 1

正如它们官网所说,超过四百万名软件开发者都认为它不错。

As their homepage puts it, they are considered not bad by over 4,000,000 software developers.

Speaker 0

今天,我们要讨论的是 Sentry 如何与 Acquired 宇宙中的另一家公司 Anthropic 合作。

Today, we are talking about the way Sentry works with another company in the acquired universe, Anthropic.

Speaker 0

Anthropic 以前有一些旧的基础设施监控系统,但在他们庞大的规模和复杂性下,他们转而采用 Sentry 来更快地解决问题。

Anthropic used to have some older infrastructure monitoring in place, But at their massive scale and complexity, they instead adopted Sentry to help them fix issues faster.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yep.

Speaker 1

崩溃在人工智能领域可能是个大问题。

Crashes can be a massive problem in AI.

Speaker 1

如果你正在运行一个庞大的计算任务,比如训练模型,一旦某个节点失败,就可能影响成百上千台服务器。

If you're running a huge compute job like training a model and one node fails, it can affect hundreds or thousands of servers.

Speaker 1

Sentry 帮助他们检测到有问题的硬件,从而能在引发连锁问题前迅速将其剔除。

Sentry helped them detect bad hardware so they could quickly reject it before causing a cascading problem.

Speaker 1

Sentry 还让他们能够将排查大规模问题的时间从几天缩短到几小时,从而更快地恢复训练任务。

Sentry also enabled them to debug massive issues in hours instead of days so they could get back to their training runs.

Speaker 0

如今,Anthropic 依赖 Sentry 来追踪异常、分配错误,并实时分析其研究团队所使用的主流编程语言(包括 Python、Rust 和 C++)中的故障。

And today, Anthropic relies on Sentry to track exceptions, assign errors, and analyze failures in real time across all of the primary languages used by Anthropic's research teams, including Python, Rust, and c plus plus.

Speaker 0

据 Anthropic 团队称,Sentry 为我们的开发者提供了一个统一的平台,其中包含了排查问题所需的所有信息。

According to the Anthropic team, Sentry gives our developers one place that will have all the information they need to debug an issue.

Speaker 1

说到 AI,Sentry 现在推出了一款名为 SEER 的 AI 调试器。

And speaking of AI, Sentry now has an AI debugger called SEER.

Speaker 1

SEER 是一个 AI 代理,它能整合 Sentry 和你的代码库中的所有问题上下文,不仅猜测问题,还能精准定位棘手问题的根本原因,并为你量身提供可直接合并的修复方案。

SEER is an AI agent that taps into all the issue context from Sentry and your code base to not just guess, but root cause gnarly issues and propose merge ready fixes specific to your application.

Speaker 0

我们非常期待与 Sentry 合作。

We're pumped to be working with Sentry.

Speaker 0

他们拥有令人惊叹的客户名单,不仅包括 Anthropic,还有 Cursor、Vercel、Linear 等公司。

They have an incredible customer list, including not only Anthropic, but Cursor, Vercel, Linear, and more.

Speaker 0

如果你想快速修复出错的代码,就像超过 15 万家使用 Sentry 的组织那样——从独立爱好者到全球最大的公司——你可以访问 sentry.io/acquired 了解更多。

If you wanna fix your broken code fast, like over a 150,000 other organizations that use Sentry from indie hobbyists to some of the biggest companies in the world, you can check out sentry.io/acquired.

Speaker 0

这是 sentry.io/acquired,只需告诉他们是本和大卫介绍的。

That's sentry.io/acquired, and just tell them that Ben and David sent you.

Speaker 1

对。

Yes.

Speaker 1

他们为所有 Acquired 节目听众提供两个月的免费服务。

And they're offering two months free to all Acquired listeners.

Speaker 0

是的。

Yes.

Speaker 0

谢谢,Sentry。

Thank you, Sentry.

Speaker 0

好了,大卫。

Alright, David.

Speaker 0

让我们开始吧。

Take us in.

Speaker 0

各位听众,一如既往,本节目不构成投资建议。

And listeners, as always, this show is not investment advice.

Speaker 0

大卫和我可能投资了该公司的资产和协议代币。

David and I may have investments in the company's assets, protocol tokens.

Speaker 1

是实用型代币,本。

Utility tokens, Ben.

Speaker 1

实用型代币。

Utility tokens.

Speaker 1

所以去问问美国证券交易委员会。

So check with the SEC.

Speaker 0

我们讨论的内容仅用于信息和娱乐目的。

That we discuss, and the show is for informational and entertainment purposes only.

Speaker 1

这些是商品,不是证券。

These are commodities, not securities.

Speaker 0

商品。

Commodities.

Speaker 1

没错。

That's right.

Speaker 1

在开始之前,有两件事。

Before we get into it, two things.

Speaker 1

第一,这显然是第八季的 finale。

One, this is obviously the season eight finale.

Speaker 1

天啊,这季真精彩。

Like, what a season.

Speaker 1

这太疯狂了。

This is crazy.

Speaker 1

我们一开始讲的是比特币。

So we started with Bitcoin.

Speaker 1

我们做了关于《纽约时报》公司的内容。

We did the New York Times company.

Speaker 1

我们做了三集关于伯克希尔·哈撒韦的节目,现在却以以太坊收尾。

We did three freaking episodes on Berkshire Hathaway, and we're ending with Ethereum.

Speaker 1

我们还提到了梅特温第三。

We have Maytwine third.

Speaker 1

这太疯狂了。

Like, this is wild.

Speaker 1

我只是觉得,这太酷了。

I just like, it's so cool.

Speaker 1

我们能做这么多疯狂的事情。

We get to do all this crazy stuff.

Speaker 0

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 0

当这些事物彼此针锋相对时,我们居然还能为每一件找到看涨的理由,这真了不起。

It's remarkable we can find bull cases in all of those things when they've got daggers pointed at each other.

Speaker 0

我知道。

I know.

Speaker 0

尤其是加密货币和伯克希尔。

Particularly crypto and Berkshire.

Speaker 1

至少沃伦和查理对加密货币是持敌对态度的。

Well, there are at least daggers in one direction from Warren and Charlie to crypto.

Speaker 1

我不确定另一个方向如何。

I don't know about the other direction.

Speaker 0

哦,我认为比特币原教旨主义者非常期待伯克希尔·哈撒韦时代成为过去。

Oh, I think the Bitcoin maximalists are are, very excited to see the time of Berkshire Hathaway be in the past.

Speaker 1

成为过去。

Be in the past.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

那可能确实是真的。

That that may that may be true.

Speaker 1

太酷了。

So freaking cool.

Speaker 1

感谢大家一路陪伴我们走过这段旅程。

Thank you guys all for just being with us on this journey.

Speaker 1

太棒了。

So awesome.

Speaker 1

第二点,在我们深入之前,衷心感谢卡米拉·鲁索和她的新书《无限机器》,这本书最近出版,为我们提供了本集历史与事实的主要叙事来源。

Number two, before we dive in, huge thank you on this episode to Camilla Russo and her book, The Infinite Machine, which came out recently and served as basically the main narrative source for history and facts here.

Speaker 1

卡米拉是一位出色的记者,曾是彭博社科技团队的一员。

Camilla is an excellent journalist, was part of the technology team at Bloomberg.

Speaker 1

布拉德·斯通在那里组建了一支非常强大的团队。

Brad Stone has quite the crew that he's assembled over there.

Speaker 1

现在卡米拉运营着《The Defiant》,我认为这名字是玩了个文字游戏,源自‘defy Ayo’。

And now Camilla runs The Defiant, which I think is sort of a play that's the the defy Ayo.

Speaker 1

还有Ayo。

And Ayo.

Speaker 1

但这本书真的很棒。

But wonderful book.

Speaker 1

强烈推荐。

Highly recommend.

Speaker 1

大家都去读一读吧。

Everybody go check it out.

Speaker 1

感谢卡米拉撰写了这部精彩的历史著作。

And, thank you to Camilla for writing this amazing history.

Speaker 1

好的。

Okay.

Speaker 1

说到历史,如果你还记得本季一开始的比特币 episode,就会记得比特币白皮书于2008年发布,但直到2010年5月,才发生了著名的披萨日交易——有人用比特币买了两个披萨,当时是多少来着?

So speaking of history, if you remember all the way back to the beginning of the season with our Bitcoin episode, you'll remember that the Bitcoin white paper was published, of course, in 2008, but it wasn't until May 2010 when the famous Pizza Day, Pizza Transactions happened where, two pizzas were purchased for what was it?

Speaker 1

大概是10000个比特币,差不多是这个数。

It was, like, 10,000 Bitcoin, something like that.

Speaker 1

没错。

That sounds right.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

天啊,那真是贵得离谱的披萨。

Man, those were some spendy pizzas.

Speaker 1

显然,整个加密货币的概念花了点时间才逐渐兴起,甚至还没进入主流,只是慢慢获得了更广泛的认知。

It obviously took a little while for this whole idea of sorta crypto to gain steam and and enter the not even the mainstream, but just sort of broader awareness.

Speaker 1

而比特币的杀手级应用——当然也是第一个杀手级应用,即丝绸之路——直到2011年2月才上线。

And then the killer app for Bitcoin, which of course was the first killer app, which was the Silk Road, didn't launch until February 2011.

Speaker 1

就在那时,紧接着的下一个月,也就是2011年3月,一位新用户出现在了比特币的在线讨论论坛上。

So it was right at that time, the very next month, in fact, in March 2011, that a new user shows up in the Bitcoin talk forums online.

Speaker 0

有多少这类专题故事是以有人在论坛上出现开头的?

How many of these acquired episodes start with someone showing up in the forums?

Speaker 1

有人在论坛上出现了。

Someone shows up in the forum.

Speaker 1

我的意思是,我觉得大概有一半的中国科技专题故事都是这样:某某和一群未来的行业巨头在IRC上闲逛。

I mean, I feel like, probably, like, half the China Tech episodes are, like, so and so is hanging out on, IRC with all the other future giants.

Speaker 1

没错。

Yep.

Speaker 1

太神奇了。

Amazing.

Speaker 1

因此,比特币讨论论坛可以说是当时这个早期比特币社区的中心枢纽。

So the Bitcoin talk forums were kind of the central hub of this sort of, like, early Bitcoin community.

Speaker 1

实际上,这些论坛是由中本聪本人创建的,我之前并不知道这一点。

They were actually created, I didn't realize this, by Satoshi himself.

Speaker 1

他创建了?不会吧。

He created Oh, no way.

Speaker 1

一个论坛。

A forum.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

在2009年。

In 2009.

Speaker 1

而比特币披萨交易就发生在这里。

And this is where the pizza transaction happened.

Speaker 1

著名的Huddl帖子就是在这个比特币讨论论坛上发布的,后来催生了那个迷因。

This is where the famous Huddl post was in the Bitcoin talk forums, that generated that meme.

Speaker 1

太酷了。

Super cool.

Speaker 1

所以这个新加入论坛的用户,在几乎所有方面都与中本聪截然不同。

So this new user who joins the forums is very unlike Satoshi in pretty much every dimension.

Speaker 1

他与中本聪最明显的不同之处在于

And the most obvious dimension that he's unlike Satoshi

Speaker 0

他有名字?

He has a name?

Speaker 1

他使用的是真实姓名,根本没有用户名。

He uses his real name as his there is no username.

Speaker 1

这个名字就像,其他人都是,天啊。

The name like, everybody else is like, oh, man.

Speaker 1

在这一集中,那个抽烟太多的人是谁?

In the episode, who is the that smokes too much.

Speaker 1

曾经有个用户抽烟太多,曾在论坛上发过帖。

There was the user smokes too much that had posted to the forum.

Speaker 1

但这个新用户就是维塔利克·布特林。

But this this new user is just simply Vitalik Buterin.

Speaker 0

就在这里。

Right there.

Speaker 0

就在这里。

Right there.

Speaker 0

在这一行上,而且说永远,你会通过我的名字认识我。

On the line and, and saying forever, you will know me by my name.

Speaker 0

我会成为一个公众人物。

I'll be a public person.

Speaker 0

我会成为一个与我的所有言论紧密关联的人物,无论好坏,无论是因为我坦诚脆弱,还是因为我凝聚了一股运动。我用真实姓名绑定真实身份来做到这一点。

I'll be a a figure that will, identify with all of my comments and, you know, whether for good and for bad, for being vulnerable, but also for galvanizing a movement, This real name tied to my real identity is how I will do that.

Speaker 1

真实姓名,没有花招。

Real name, no gimmicks.

Speaker 1

Vitalik Buterin。

Vitalik Buterin.

Speaker 1

那么,这个人物是谁?

So who is this character?

Speaker 1

而且,当时几乎比特币和加密货币圈里的每个人都用化名,为什么他愿意使用真名?

And why when everybody literally almost everybody else in Bitcoin land and crypto land at the time is using a pseudonym, why is he willing to use his real name?

Speaker 1

因为他只是一个高中生,所以愿意用真名。

Well, he's use willing to use his real name because he's just a high school kid.

Speaker 1

他没什么好隐藏的。

He's got nothing to hide.

Speaker 1

他没什么可失去的。

He's got nothing to lose.

Speaker 1

他才17岁。

He's 17 years old.

Speaker 1

他加入是因为想找办法赚一些比特币。

He joins because he is looking for a way to earn some Bitcoin.

Speaker 1

作为一个高中生,这简直是个超棒的兼职。

A pretty awesome, like, side gig as a high schooler.

Speaker 0

那这个时候他在哪里?

And where is he at this point?

Speaker 1

他现在在多伦多。

He is in Toronto at this point.

Speaker 1

好吧。

So okay.

Speaker 1

维塔利克17岁。

Vitalik's 17.

Speaker 1

他出生在俄罗斯,后苏联时期的俄罗斯,父母是卡卢加市的两名计算机科学本科生,卡卢加就在莫斯科郊外。

He was born in Russia, in Post Soviet Russia, to two undergrad computer science students at Kalomna, which is right outside of Moscow.

Speaker 1

很难想象,想想看,他出生于1994年1月。

It's kinda hard to imagine, like just think about, like, being born he was born in January 1994.

Speaker 1

我从没去过俄罗斯,但我听说一月份非常冷,

I've never been to Russia, but I hear January is pretty,

Speaker 0

我二月去过俄罗斯,我可以告诉你,冷得能冻掉你的脸。

I have been to Russia in February, and I can tell you it has freeze your face off cold.

Speaker 1

完全是另一个层次。

A whole new level.

Speaker 1

这可能让加拿大、多伦多显得温暖宜人,适合旅行。

Probably makes Canada look like, Toronto look like balmy and travel.

Speaker 0

加拿大南部简直就像海滩一样。

Southern Canada is may as well be the beach.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

所以是1994年。

So it's 1994.

Speaker 1

他出生在一对非常年轻、毫无准备的父母家中。

He's born to these two, like, very young, very unprepared parents.

Speaker 1

他出生后不久,父母就离婚了。

Not long after he was born, they would get divorced.

Speaker 1

当时的俄罗斯一片混乱。

Russia at the time is in, like, total shambles.

Speaker 1

苏联早在几年前就已经解体了。

The Soviet Union had collapsed a couple years before.

Speaker 1

当时出现了恶性通货膨胀,每月通胀率达到两位数。

There's hyperinflation, like, double digits per month inflation.

Speaker 1

人们正在失去一切。

People are losing everything.

Speaker 1

经济陷入了萧条。

There's a depression.

Speaker 1

人们正在挨饿。

People are starving.

Speaker 1

我之前根本没意识到情况竟然这么糟糕。

Like, this is I didn't realize this, how bad this was.

Speaker 1

从苏联解体到维塔利克出生,俄罗斯的预期寿命下降了十多年。

Life expectancy in the in Russia declined by over ten years from the collapse of the Soviet Union to the time that Vitalik was born.

Speaker 0

这可是五年啊。

Which is five years.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

这太疯狂了。

That's crazy.

Speaker 1

比如,人们的平均预期寿命降到了五十岁左右。

Like, average life expectancy for people was down into the, like, fifty years.

Speaker 1

这太不可思议了。

That is insane.

Speaker 1

所以一方面,他出生在一个充满巨大动荡的环境中,必须从中磨炼出坚韧的品格。

So on the one hand, you've got, like, all of this, like, huge amount of turmoil he's born into and, like, grit that he's gonna have to develop out of this.

Speaker 1

他的父母正在离婚。

His parents are getting divorced.

Speaker 1

我的意思是,这对任何人来说都很难,更不用说还要面对这么多其他问题了。

I mean, that's so hard for anybody, let alone with all this other stuff.

Speaker 1

但他同时也拥有巨大的机遇。

But he also has all these huge opportunities.

Speaker 1

所以他算是中了基因彩票。

So he kinda wins the genetic lottery.

Speaker 1

他的父母不仅都非常聪明,而维塔利克本人也是如此。

Like, both of his parents are not only hyper intelligent, which, of course, Vitalik is as well.

Speaker 1

任何可能听这个节目的人,至少都听说过他的名字,甚至可能听过他讲话。

Anybody who probably everybody listening to this has at least heard his name if not heard him speak.

Speaker 1

他简直就是个天才。

He is quite literally a genius.

Speaker 0

我猜这有点夸大了。

I bet that's overstated.

Speaker 0

我觉得实际上大多数听众并不知道维塔利克的名字。

I bet I actually think the majority of listeners do not know Vitalik's name.

Speaker 1

哦,有意思。

Oh, interesting.

Speaker 1

好吧,我们得

Well, we'll have to

Speaker 0

为了统一认知,对于那些还在想‘什么?’的听众来说。

Just to level set, for anyone out there who's like, what?

Speaker 0

你在说什么啊,大卫?

What are you talking about, David?

Speaker 0

对我们来说,他是个公众人物,因为过去六个月,尤其是最近,我们一直在深入研究加密货币和区块链的世界。

Like, he's a public figure to us because the last six months, especially, we've been diving into the world of crypto and blockchain.

Speaker 2

这是个很好的观点。

That's a good point.

Speaker 0

我们为这次对话做了好几个月的研究。

We we've done months of research to prepare for this.

Speaker 0

但去年这个时候,我知道维塔利克的名字吗?

But, like, last year this time, did I know Vitalik's name?

Speaker 0

我不这么认为。

I don't think so.

Speaker 1

这真有趣。

That's funny.

Speaker 1

我某种程度上把他看作一位公共知识分子。

I sort of, like, think of him as this public intellectual.

Speaker 1

也许这只是因为他是泰勒·科文的朋友,还参加他们的对话。

Maybe that's just because he's buddies with, Tyler Cowen and, goes on the conversations.

Speaker 0

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 0

他确实上过。

He's been on yeah.

Speaker 0

到目前为止,他已经上过一些相当主流的播客了。

He's been on some fairly mainstream podcasts at this point.

Speaker 1

对。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

不管怎样,不仅他的父母非常聪明,而且维塔利克本人也是,他的父母在九十年代中期就是计算机科学家。

Anyway, so not only his parents hyper intelligent, and, of course, Vitalik is, his parents are computer scientists in the mid nineties.

Speaker 1

那时候当一名计算机科学家真是绝佳的时机。

This is a great time to be a computer scientist.

Speaker 1

尽管他们离婚了,但关系非常和睦。

So even though they get divorced, it's very amicable.

Speaker 1

因此,他们的父母达成一致,基本上过着共同但分开的生活。

So they agree, his parents, to basically live their lives, like, together but separately.

Speaker 1

而他们的首要任务是给维塔利克尽可能多的机会。

And, like, number one priority is giving Vitalik every opportunity they can.

Speaker 1

因此,最重要的一件事是,当维塔利克五岁时,他们决定离开俄罗斯,移民到加拿大,并在多伦多定居。

So the first and maybe most important of these things is when Vitalik is five, they decide to leave the leave Russia and emigrate to Canada, and they settle in Toronto.

Speaker 1

维塔利克被安排进了多伦多公立学校的天才班,这有点讽刺。

Vitalik gets put into the gifted program in Toronto's public schools, which is kinda funny.

Speaker 1

所以,他刚到加拿大时根本不会说英语。

So, like, give me he he didn't speak English at all until he arrived in Canada.

Speaker 1

他花了几年时间才真正熟练地使用英语。

It takes him a few years to really, like, get comfortable speaking English.

Speaker 1

但他显然在数学和计算机方面天赋异禀,继承了父母的才华。

But he's clearly a genius at math and computers and taking after his parents.

Speaker 1

但他写作能力也很强。

He's also really good at writing, though.

Speaker 1

尤其是用英语写作。

So and writing English.

Speaker 1

这太疯狂了。

So this is crazy.

Speaker 1

当他七岁的时候,我不确定这是学校的作业,还是维塔利克只是出于兴趣做的。

When he's seven years old, I don't know if this is a school project or just something Vitalik did for fun.

Speaker 1

他用微软Word写了一份30页的英文文档,名为《兔子百科全书》。

He writes a 30 page document in English in Microsoft Word called the Encyclopedia of Bunnies.

Speaker 1

他非常感兴趣于兔子,于是把文档写得像一篇学术论文。

And he structures it he's really interested in bunnies, and, he structures it like a scientific paper.

Speaker 1

他用了图表,还列出了构成兔子的所有化学元素。

He's got, like, graphs and charts, and he lists all the chemical elements that, like, make up a bunny.

Speaker 0

是排版好的,用LaTeX做的吗?

It's is it, like, typeset and LaTeX?

Speaker 0

我的意思是,我简直能想象这会是一个孩子写的正经学术作品。

Like, I could just imagine this being, like, a, literally academic thing for a a child to write.

Speaker 1

完全没错。

Totally.

Speaker 1

他的父亲德米特里后来开玩笑说,这是维塔利克的第一篇白皮书。

His dad, Dimitri, would, would joke later that it was Vitalik's first white paper.

Speaker 1

嘿,喂。

Hey, yo.

Speaker 0

在为这次采访准备时,我读了大量维塔利克的写作内容,从2013年及更早的博客,到白皮书,再到他如今写的许多文章。

Having read quite a bit of Vitalik's writing, preparing for this across blogs from 2013 and before, through the white paper, through a lot of the stuff he's written today.

Speaker 0

他是一位才华横溢、言简意赅、极其出色的沟通者。

He is a talented, succinct, incredible communicator.

Speaker 1

完全没错。

Totally.

Speaker 1

尤其是考虑到他现在还这么年轻。

Especially given how young he still is.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yep.

Speaker 1

我认为在我们录制这段内容时,他大约27岁。

I think he's 27 at this point as we're recording this.

Speaker 1

所以,他在高中时显然非常有天赋。

So for high school, he's clearly so talented.

Speaker 1

他的父母决定让他离开公立学校,进入多伦多的一所名为阿贝勒德学校的机构。

They his parents decided to take him out of public schools and enroll him in this school called the Abelard School in Toronto.

Speaker 1

我甚至不知道有这样的学校存在。

I didn't even know schools like this existed.

Speaker 1

这所学校每个年级大约只有10名学生。

There are only about 10 students per grade at this school.

Speaker 1

课程非常密集,但同时也允许孩子们探索自己的兴趣。

And it's a very intensive curriculum, but also, like, lets kids explore their own passions.

Speaker 1

所以,我们的故事就从这里继续展开。

So this is where we pick up the story.

Speaker 1

维塔利克是高中三年级学生。

Vitalik is a junior in high school.

Speaker 1

他的父母都还在科技行业。

Both of his parents are still in tech.

Speaker 1

他父亲是一位创业者,经营一家软件公司。

His dad is a entrepreneur who runs a software company.

Speaker 1

他父亲告诉他现在是2011年,跟他讲了一种叫比特币的东西,他听说了,正在研究,还参与了这家公司。

And his dad tells him this is 2011, tells him about this thing called Bitcoin that he's heard about, he's looking into, he's part of the company.

Speaker 1

这挺酷的。

It's pretty cool.

Speaker 1

据说,当时维塔利克这样的青少年,就是觉得挺有意思。

And, supposedly, at First Vitalik, you know, like, teenagers was like, yeah.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

真酷,老爸。

Cool, dad.

Speaker 1

就是吧,随便吧。

Like, whatever.

Speaker 1

没什么大不了的。

Like, no big deal.

Speaker 1

我不知道。

Like, I don't know.

Speaker 1

crazy 虚拟货币。

Like, crazy virtual currency.

Speaker 1

但后来他显然花了很多时间上网,也开始自己听说这件事。

But then he, like obviously, he spends a lot of time on the Internet, and he starts hearing about it himself.

Speaker 0

他觉得,哦,

He's like, oh,

Speaker 1

其实,这还挺酷的。

actually, maybe this is kinda cool.

Speaker 1

也许我应该专注于它。

Maybe I should focus on it.

Speaker 1

所以他决定要参与这场运动,但他不想只是去买比特币。

So he decides he wants to participate in this whole movement, but he doesn't wanna just go buy Bitcoin.

Speaker 1

那样的话太无聊了。

Like, that would be really boring.

Speaker 1

而且他还是个高中生。

Plus, he's a high school kid.

Speaker 0

如果你只是买它们,感觉并不像是真正参与这场运动。

Doesn't feel like participating in the movement if you're just sort of buying them.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

他真的很想真正融入其中。

He he really wants to, like, be part of this.

Speaker 1

他想赚取比特币。

He wants to earn Bitcoin.

Speaker 1

所以你会想,到了这一点,听众们,你们可能觉得维塔利克会把阿瓦拉德的所有计算机实验室都变成一个巨大的分布式比特币挖矿机,而且

So you would think, this point, listeners, you're probably going like, this is where Vitalik turns all of Avalard's, like, computer labs into a giant distributed Bitcoin mining machine and, like

Speaker 0

哦,我之前还真不知道这个。

Oh, I actually didn't know that.

Speaker 1

不。

No.

Speaker 1

那才是你希望看到的。

He that's what you would like.

Speaker 1

我这时在想,他本来会去做的是

I'm I'm thinking at this point that this is what he would be

Speaker 0

对。

Right.

Speaker 1

这个。

Doing.

Speaker 1

但并没有。

But, no.

Speaker 1

这时他登录了论坛,他这样做的原因是,他想通过写文章来赚取比特币。

This is when he logs onto the forum, and the reason he does is the way he wants to earn Bitcoin is he wants to write about Bitcoin.

Speaker 1

随着他深入社区,他发现人们并没有很好地传达和推广比特币究竟是什么。

As he's going deeper in the community, he's like, people are not doing a great job of communicating and evangelizing what this is.

Speaker 1

我觉得我可以做到,我擅长技术写作。

I think I can do I'm good at technical writing.

Speaker 1

我觉得我能做得很好。

I think I can do a good job.

Speaker 1

因此,他专门创建了账号来回复一篇帖子——这是由一个叫《Bitcoin Weekly》的出版方发布的征稿启事,那是一个现已不复存在的新闻网站,但你可以在论坛上查阅所有这些内容。

So, specifically, he creates his account to respond to a post, a request for writers from the publisher of a organization called Bitcoin Weekly, which is a, a news site that no longer exists, but you can go read all this in the forum.

Speaker 1

最初的帖子写道:‘我愿意支付5个比特币,奖励任何撰写文章并授权我将其以公共领域发布的人。'

The initial post reads, I am willing to pay 5 Bitcoin for anybody who would write an article and authorized me to publish it under the public domain.

Speaker 1

向我提出一个想法,我会认真考虑。

Pitch an idea to me, and I will think about it.

Speaker 1

如果我喜欢你的想法,你有四天时间提交初稿,三天时间完成最终稿件。

If I like your idea, you will get four days deadline to rate your article and three days deadline to finish your final draft.

Speaker 1

我是市场上最可靠的雇主之一。

I am one of the most reliable employer on the market.

Speaker 1

你可以想象得很清楚。

You can imagine the Clearly.

Speaker 1

另一边那个翘胡子的人。

The mustache twirling on the other end here.

Speaker 1

于是年轻的维塔利克回复了,他说:嘿。

So young Vitalik responds, and he's like, hey.

Speaker 1

我可以写。

I can write.

Speaker 1

为什么我不写一篇关于经济学以及为什么信用卡不适合微交易的文章呢?

Like, why don't I write about economics and the dynamics of why using, you know, credit cards doesn't make sense for micro transactions?

Speaker 1

我能写的东西太多了。

I get this is all sorts of stuff I can write about.

Speaker 1

于是出版方回复了。

So the publisher responds.

Speaker 1

他说:好的。

He's like, yep.

Speaker 1

对。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

对。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

当然。

Sure.

Speaker 1

把你的投稿发过来,我看看我喜不喜欢。

Send in your, send in your submission, and I'll see if I like it.

Speaker 1

所以维塔利克这么做了。

So, Vitalik does.

Speaker 1

他写了这篇文章。

He writes the article.

Speaker 1

他因此获得了5个比特币的报酬,当时价值4美元。

He gets paid for it in 5 Bitcoin, which at the time was worth $4.

Speaker 1

今天值多少,5个比特币?

Today is worth, what, 5 Bitcoin?

Speaker 2

我希望如此

I hope

Speaker 0

他应该留着那些吧。

he kept those.

Speaker 1

是的

Yeah.

Speaker 1

我希望他确实留着那些。

I hope he kept those indeed.

Speaker 0

今天值15万。

A 150 k today.

Speaker 1

是的

Yeah.

Speaker 1

15万以上。

150 k plus.

Speaker 1

不过,他一直在持续发帖。

His post, though, he keeps writing.

Speaker 1

他的帖子开始变得非常受欢迎,于是他与出版社达成了协议,因为他是唯一为这个平台写作且有人阅读的人,而

His post start to become really popular, And so, he strikes a deal with the publisher, because he's kinda the only one writing for this thing that people are reading, where

Speaker 0

因为从它被宣传的方式来看,听起来像是个骗局。

Because it sounds like a scam, the way that it was posted about.

Speaker 1

你听好了。

Well, get this.

Speaker 1

于是他们决定,Vitalik 将为《比特币周刊》免费撰稿。

So they decide that what they're gonna do, Vitalik's gonna write for free for Bitcoin weekly.

Speaker 1

他们将在网站上发布他每篇文章的第一段。

They're gonna post the first paragraph of all of his articles on the site.

Speaker 1

嗯。

Mhmm.

Speaker 1

然后他们会把文章的其余部分扣住,相当于勒索——读者必须通过众筹支付一定数量的比特币,汇入指定的钱包地址,才能解锁并阅读全文。

And then they're gonna hold the rest of the article essentially for ransom, where there's, like, a fee that has to be crowdfunded by by people for a certain amount of Bitcoin for each article that people have to pay into a wallet address to unlock everybody seeing the rest

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Speaker 0

有趣。

of Interesting.

Speaker 0

所以这不仅仅是个付费墙。

The So it's not just like, a paywall.

Speaker 0

只有足够多的人付费,才能读到这些内容。

It's, like, the only way anybody gets to read this is if enough people pay

Speaker 1

这就像个众筹平台。

It's like a Kickstarter.

Speaker 0

太神奇了。

Fascinating.

Speaker 1

这是为比特币文章做的众筹。

It's like a Kickstarter for Bitcoin articles.

Speaker 1

太棒了。

Amazing.

Speaker 1

于是,他们开始赚到相当可观的比特币了。

So with this, they start making, like, pretty decent amount of Bitcoin.

Speaker 1

这对年轻的维塔利克来说不错。

Good for a young Vitalik.

Speaker 1

这种情况持续了几个月。

This goes on for a few months.

Speaker 1

但与原始帖子不同的是,出版商基巴并不是市场上最可靠的雇主之一,到了2011年夏天结束时,《比特币周刊》就倒闭了。

But unlike the original post, Kiba, the publisher, is not exactly one of the most reliable employer on the market, and, Bitcoin weekly goes under by the end of the summer that year in 2011.

Speaker 1

所以人们并不太喜欢维塔利克的写作。

So people don't really like Vitalik's writing.

Speaker 1

那年八月,罗马尼亚的一个叫米哈伊·阿拉萨斯的家伙和他的女友罗克珊娜,他们是维塔利克文章的粉丝,他们想,如果我们创办一本真正的杂志,为维塔利克的文章提供一个新家,让他担任主笔,会怎么样呢?

And that August, a dude in Romania named Mihai Alasi and his girlfriend, Roxanna, who were fans of Vitalik's writing, they think, hey, what if we started, like, an actual magazine to give Vitalik's writing, you know, a new home, and he can be the head writer.

Speaker 1

于是他们联系了他,不清楚他们是否知道他只是一个在加拿大的高中生,但你知道,这是加密世界。

So they reach out to him, unclear if they knew that he was a high school kid in Canada or not, but, you know, hey, it's crypto.

Speaker 0

互联网的魔力。

Magic of the Internet.

Speaker 0

你其实也不必非得透露这些。

It's like you kinda also don't have to disclose that.

Speaker 1

没错。

Exactly.

Speaker 1

没错。

Exactly.

Speaker 1

于是他们联系了他,提议创办《比特币杂志》,他同意了。

So they reach out to him with the idea to start Bitcoin Magazine, which they do.

Speaker 1

他们与论坛中的几位其他人合作,开始着手工作。

They team up with a few other folks in the forums, and they get to work.

Speaker 1

最初的计划是他们将从慢节奏开始,只在线发布内容,然后逐步推出实体杂志。

The initial idea is that they're gonna start slow, they're only gonna publish online, and then they'll work up to a real physical magazine.

Speaker 1

不过,另一位参与进来的人,化名为Matthew n Wright的男子,有不同的想法。

One of the other people who becomes involved though, a guy under the pseudonym Matthew n Wright, he has a different idea.

Speaker 1

于是,Mihai 去注册这家公司。

So Mihai, he goes to incorporate this company.

Speaker 1

他们决定在英国注册公司。

They decide to incorporate in The UK.

Speaker 1

所以他从罗马尼亚飞往伦敦。

So he flies from Romania to London.

Speaker 1

他在办理公司注册,同时还在旅途中。

He's incorporating, and then he's, like, in the middle of traveling.

Speaker 1

他正在返回的路上。

He's on his way back.

Speaker 1

马修,据称在在线上给团队发消息,说我们来大胆设想一下。

Matthew, quote unquote, messages the group online, and he says, let's dream big.

Speaker 1

然后他发布了一份他写的新闻稿,而且我认为他根本没告诉任何人。

And then he hits publish on a press release that he's written, and I don't think he's told anybody about.

Speaker 1

这份新闻稿的标题是《比特币杂志创刊号付印》,称一本64页的精装杂志即将送印,首印5000册,订阅者将在两周内收到刊物。

The press release is entitled, first issue of Bitcoin magazine goes to print, and it says a 64 page glossy magazine is on its way to the printers with a 5,000 copy initial run, and subscribers are gonna get their copies within two weeks.

Speaker 0

当然,这些事情根本没人做过。

Which, of course, no one has done any of that stuff.

Speaker 0

对吧?

Right?

Speaker 1

实际上什么都没做。

Literally nothing has been done.

Speaker 1

我读到这个的时候,一直在想,这不就是《魔兽世界》里Leroy Jenkins的梗吗?

This is like the, the whole time I was thinking when I read this, you know, the the World of Warcraft Leroy Jenkins meme?

Speaker 1

是的。

Yes.

Speaker 1

这简直就是Leroy Jenkins的翻版。

That's exactly what this is.

Speaker 1

他们把这本杂志搞成了Leroy Jenkins式的闹剧。

They Leroy Jenkins, the magazine.

Speaker 0

所以,这个人是否值得长期合作,还不清楚。

So it's not clear that this guy is someone you wanna work with long term.

Speaker 1

对。

No.

Speaker 1

我觉得他大概又待了一个月左右,然后他们就说:嘿。

I think he ends up staying for, like, another month or so, and then they're like, hey.

Speaker 0

你得赶紧离开这儿。

You gotta get out of here.

Speaker 0

但到这个时候,你知道的,Vitalik 已经用真名了。

But at this point, like, you know, Vitalik's using his real name.

Speaker 0

他开始在社区里活跃起来了。

He's starting starting to get out there in the community.

Speaker 0

已经做出了承诺。

A promise has been made.

Speaker 0

所以他们有点想,好吧,我们得兑现这个承诺,这样才能被视为可信的人。

So they're kinda like, hey, I guess we we should make good on this so that we're viewed as reputable people.

Speaker 1

对吧?

Right?

Speaker 1

需求是发明之母。

And, like, necessity is the mother of invention.

Speaker 1

所以 Mihai、Roxanna 和 Vitalik 他们觉得,好吧,我们得干了。

So Mihai, Roxanna, and Vitalik, they're like, alright, we gotta do this.

Speaker 1

令人惊讶的是,他们真的做到了。

Amazingly, they make it happen.

Speaker 1

我不认为他们赶上了两周的截止日期,但他们出版了一本真正的实体比特币杂志。

I don't think they hit the two week deadline, but they publish a real physical Bitcoin magazine.

Speaker 1

最终,这本书被巴诺书店选中了。

It gets picked up eventually in Barnes and Noble.

Speaker 1

它变成了一本真正的出版物。

Like, it becomes like a real publication.

Speaker 1

因此,维塔利克是主笔,他逐渐成为比特币和加密货币领域的名人。

It's pretty So with that, you know, Vitalik, he's the head writer.

Speaker 1

他变得更加出名,成了比特币和加密货币界的名人。

He starts becoming even more of, like, a Bitcoin and crypto celebrity.

Speaker 0

在当时,这两者在某种程度上是一回事。

Which at this point are kind of the same thing in this They

Speaker 1

它们完全是一回事。

are exactly the same

Speaker 0

什么时间框架。

what, time frame.

Speaker 0

没有其他加密货币。

There is no other crypto.

Speaker 1

我不觉得。

I don't

Speaker 0

我认为没有。

think so.

Speaker 0

至少没什么值得注意的。

Not of note, anyway.

Speaker 1

确实没什么值得注意的。

Certainly nothing of note.

Speaker 1

正如我们后面会谈到的,大多数其他正在发生的项目,我认为此时中本聪已经消失了。

And as we'll get into most of the other projects that are happening, I think Satoshi has already disappeared at this point.

Speaker 1

但当时大多数其他加密项目,我认为都是建立在比特币网络之上的。

But most of the other crypto projects that were happening, I think, were happening on top of the Bitcoin network at this point.

Speaker 1

所以是2012年秋天。

So it's fall twenty twelve.

Speaker 1

维塔利克已经从高中毕业,并进入滑铁卢大学攻读计算机科学,成为大一新生,这所大学非常顶尖。

Vitalik has now graduated from high school, and he starts as a freshman at the University of Waterloo studying computer science, super prestigious.

Speaker 1

这所学校。

The school.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

在滑铁卢大学期间,维塔利克仍然持续为《比特币杂志》撰稿。

So Vitalik at Waterloo, he's still writing all the time for Bitcoin Magazine.

Speaker 1

他选修了大量课程,你知道的。

He's taking, like, a whole bunch of courses, you know.

Speaker 1

在滑铁卢大学读计算机科学可不是轻松的事。

This is no walk in the park to actually be a CS student at Waterloo.

Speaker 1

对。

Yep.

Speaker 1

他还开始担任著名教授伊恩·戈德堡的助手。

He also starts working as an assistant to this legendary professor named Ian Goldberg.

Speaker 1

你认识伊恩·戈德堡吗?

Do you know Ian Goldberg?

Speaker 1

我不认识。

I don't.

Speaker 1

他当年是加密朋克圈子的元老之一。

So he was one of the OG cypher funks back in the day.

Speaker 1

他作为研究人员曾破解过网景的SSL实现,后来成为Tor基金会的主席,帮助推动了Tor项目的启动。

He hacked Netscape's SSL implementation as, like, a researcher, ended up he was chairman of the Tor Foundation, helped get that off the ground.

Speaker 1

哇哦。

Wow.

Speaker 0

对于不了解的人,加密朋克是一个由叛逆的密码学家和计算机科学家组成的邮件列表,比特币实际上就是在该邮件列表上被提出和讨论的。

And and for folks who don't know, cipher funk is the email list serve of sort of renegade cryptographer computer scientists that actually, that wasn't Bitcoin sort of hatched and proposed on the CypherFunk email list.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

嗯,至少在那个圈子里是这样。

It well, certainly in that community.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

所以这一切都紧密相连。

So it's all intertwined.

Speaker 1

而且,Ian 和 Neal Stephenson 是好友,所以我觉得 Ian 的很多工作对 Neal Stephenson 的科幻创作产生了很大影响。

And, Ian is, buddies with Neal Stephenson, so I think, like, a lot of Ian's work kinda influenced a lot of Neal Stephenson's sci fi.

Speaker 1

挺酷的。

Pretty cool.

Speaker 1

所以,没错,Vitalik 很忙。

So, yeah, Vitalik is, he's busy.

Speaker 0

对。

Right.

Speaker 0

所以他还有一个副业,通过为 Bitcoin Magazine 撰稿在圈子里建立了名声。

So he has sort of the, like, side hustle thing that is earning him a name in this community with Bitcoin Magazine.

Speaker 0

但他还走着另一条被社会认可的道路——在大学里学习,通过他的教授也与这个社群保持着联系。

But then he also has the, like, approved societal path of being at university, where he is also connected to that community through his professor.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yep.

Speaker 1

所以到了维塔利克在滑铁卢大学第一年春天的时候,他已经准备好去实习,开始行动了。

So by the time the spring rolls around of Vitalik's first year at Waterloo, he's ready to do an internship and start going.

Speaker 1

他想:我想去一家公司获得一些真正的编程和现实世界的经验,但我对加密货币这些东西非常感兴趣。

He's like, he wants, like, I wanna go get some actual programming, real world experience at a company, but I'm really interested in all this crypto stuff.

Speaker 1

就在这段时间,Ripple项目刚刚起步。

And right around this point is when Ripple was getting started.

Speaker 1

所以我们得收回之前说过的话——说当时没有其他加密项目了。

So we we said, actually, we should have take take back what we said earlier that there were no other crypto projects.

Speaker 1

其实当时是有Ripple的。

There was Ripple.

Speaker 1

那时候,Ripple虽然如今依然存在,并且此后引发了诸多争议,但当时它是一个非常热门的想法:将区块链和加密交易引入现有的银行系统。

And at the time, you know, Ripple still exists and has had lots of controversy since, but it was a super hot idea to bring blockchain and crypto transactions into the existing banking systems.

Speaker 1

他们筹集了大量资金。

They raised a ton of money.

Speaker 1

所以Ripple的创始人,我们在比特币那一集里提到过,是杰德·麦卡莱布。

So the founder of Ripple, we talked about this on the Bitcoin episode, was Jed McCaleb.

Speaker 1

记得吗?他就是创建了Mt. Gox的那个人。

Remember, he was the dude who also created Mount Gox.

Speaker 0

没错。

That's right.

Speaker 1

而且他

And He

Speaker 0

他创建了Mt. Gox,然后卖掉了。

created Mount Gox, and then he sold it.

Speaker 0

所以,就像

And so, like,

Speaker 1

他把它卖给了日本人。

the He sold it to the Japanese.

Speaker 0

他不对这次崩溃负责。

He's not responsible for the collapse.

Speaker 1

但那是对的。

But That's right.

Speaker 1

那是对的。

That's right.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

现在Jed经营着Stellar,你知道的,这是众多……之一,如果你……

And Jed now runs Stellar, which is, you know, one of the many sorta if you're

Speaker 0

这里那是一个相当可信的当前项目。

here That's a fairly credible current

Speaker 1

这是一个非常可信的项目。

Very credible project.

Speaker 1

对。

Yep.

Speaker 0

是的。

Yep.

Speaker 0

但为了确保我们对瑞波币的情况非常清楚,目前有一起美国证券交易委员会(SEC)对他们的诉讼正在处理中。

Whereas, just to make sure we're super clear on Ripple, there's, a SEC lawsuit against them that's being worked through.

Speaker 0

对吧?

Right?

Speaker 1

正在处理中。

It's being worked through.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

我认为它已经被从Coinbase下架了,但毫无疑问,它已经取得了不少成就。

I think it got delisted from Coinbase, and, certainly, it's accomplished a lot.

Speaker 1

我的意思是,瑞波币的市值一度达到数百亿美元。

I mean, at some point, I think the market cap of Ripple was in the tens of billions.

Speaker 1

哇。

Wow.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

那是个适合另说的疯狂故事。

That's, like, a crazy story for another day.

Speaker 1

但在这里,杰德此时已经是加密社区的重要人物了。

But for here so Jed at this point, Jed's already, like he's, like, also a big player in the crypto community.

Speaker 1

维塔利克联系了他,杰德说:哦,对啊。

Vitalik gets in touch with him, and Jed's like, oh, yeah.

Speaker 1

我们得雇了这个孩子。

We gotta hire this kid.

Speaker 1

如果当时他们雇了他,历史可能会走向完全不同的方向,但他们没能为他拿到美国签证。

And they would've, and history would have taken a very different turn, except they can't get him a US visa.

Speaker 1

记住,瑞波币当时是一家合法的加密货币公司。

So remember, Ripple is, like, being a legitimate cryptocurrency company.

Speaker 1

他们的想法是将它引入美国的金融银行体系。

The idea is they're gonna bring it to The US financial banking system.

Speaker 1

所以,显然,他们是一家美国公司。

So, obviously, they're a USC corporation.

Speaker 1

对。

Right.

Speaker 1

你要有美国签证和工作签证才能为他们工作。

You gotta have a US visa, work visa to work for them.

Speaker 1

他们无法给维塔利克签发签证。

They can't give Vitalik a visa.

Speaker 1

所以他们说,好吧。

So they're like, alright.

Speaker 1

你知道的。

You know?

Speaker 1

抱歉。

Sorry.

Speaker 1

咱们保持联系吧。

Let's, like, stay in touch.

Speaker 1

我们会是朋友,但你不能真的来这儿暑假上班。

We'll be friends, but you can't, like, actually come work here for the summer.

Speaker 1

所以维塔利克说,你知道的,米哈伊和我,还有罗克珊,我们关系很近。

So instead, Vitalik says, well, you know, Mihai and I, like, and Roxanna, we're we're close.

Speaker 1

这个比特币杂志的事情进展得不错。

This Bitcoin magazine thing's going well.

Speaker 1

我就打算暑假休息一下。

I'm just gonna take the summer off.

Speaker 1

我要去欧洲,到罗马尼亚待着,和他们一起过夏天。

I'm gonna go over to Europe, go hang out in Romania, and spend the summer with them.

Speaker 1

我们会为杂志撰稿,而米哈伊和罗克珊正在做一个项目,基本上是在打造一个合法的丝绸之路。

We'll write for the magazine, and Mihai and Roxanna were working on a project to basically build a legitimate Silk Road.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yep.

Speaker 1

这时候丝绸之路已经存在了。

It's like Silk Road exists at this point.

Speaker 0

什么是合法的丝绸之路?

What does a legitimate Silk Road even mean?

Speaker 1

我知道。

I know.

Speaker 1

我也在想这个问题。

I was wondering this.

Speaker 0

我们将接受加密货币支付。

We're gonna accept crypto payments.

Speaker 0

它将作为一个在线市场存在,但我们不会通过美国邮政寄送毒品。

It's going to exist as an online marketplace, but we're not gonna mail drugs through the USPS.

Speaker 1

basically,它就像eBay。

Basically, it's eBay.

Speaker 1

就像是,哦,是的。

It's like, oh, yeah.

Speaker 1

我们干脆做个去中心化的eBay吧。

We should just do a decentralized eBay.

Speaker 1

也许吧。

Maybe.

Speaker 1

我不确定这是否是个好主意,但很明显,最关键的使用场景是毒品。

I don't know if that's a good idea or not, but, like, clearly, the killer use case was drugs.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yep.

Speaker 1

所以,不用说,那个项目在当时并没有取得多大进展。

So, needless to say, that project didn't get very far, at least at that point in time.

Speaker 1

他们度过了一个相当疯狂的夏天。

They end up having this kinda wild summer.

Speaker 1

他们在欧洲各地辗转。

They move around Europe.

Speaker 1

米哈伊和罗克珊也都很年轻。

Mihai and Roxanne are also pretty young.

Speaker 1

我想他们大概是前一两年才大学毕业的。

I think they had graduated from college, like, a couple maybe a year or two before.

Speaker 1

他们在欧洲各地游历。

They move around Europe.

Speaker 1

他们大部分时间都待在加泰罗尼亚的一个无政府主义公社里。

They spend most of their time hanging out at an anarchist commune in Catalonia.

Speaker 1

对于维塔利克来说,他一直是个非常非常认真的孩子。

And for Vitalik, who's like, he's always been this super, super serious kid.

Speaker 1

这对他们来说,对他而言是一种思想上的拓展。

They're like this is, like, mind expanding for him.

Speaker 1

所以他过得很开心。

So he's having a great time.

Speaker 1

到了夏天结束时,他给滑铁卢大学发了邮件,说:嘿,我觉得加密货币和比特币是个了不起的东西。

And by the end of the summer, he emails Waterloo, and he's like, hey, I think crypto and Bitcoin is is a really big thing.

Speaker 1

我想休学一年,专心从事这些加密项目,融入这个社群。

I wanna take a year off and just focus on working on these crypto projects and being in the community.

Speaker 1

一年后我就回来。

I'll be back in a year.

Speaker 0

这实际上很像如今许多极具抱负的年轻技术人士的心态,他们正在做着维塔利克后来所创造的一切。

Much like, actually, the sentiment of a lot of super ambitious, young technical people right now who are doing that on everything that Vitalik would go on to create.

Speaker 0

他是最早提出也许该暂停一下,专心投入加密货币的人之一。

He was sort of the first to say, maybe it's time for me to take some time off to focus on crypto.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yep.

Speaker 1

而且,这让我突然意识到,维塔利克和马克·扎克伯格之间有着多么惊人的相似之处——十年前的那一切,我们后面还会不断提到。

And also, like, it it just hits me over the head how much, you know, the parallels between Vitalik and Mark Zuckerberg, you know, again, ten years earlier, that we're gonna keep getting into as we go along here.

Speaker 1

但情况是一样的。

But same deal.

Speaker 1

我认为,当马克那个夏天搬去帕洛阿尔托专心做Facebook时,他原本是打算回哈佛的。

I don't think I think when Mark took that summer to move out to Palo Alto and work on Facebook, I think he was intending to go back to Harvard.

Speaker 1

也许维塔利克也是这么想的:我要休学一年,

Maybe he did the same, like, I'm gonna take a year off and

Speaker 2

然后回来。

be Yeah.

Speaker 1

显然,这两个人都没再回大学。

Obviously, neither of these guys end up going back to college.

Speaker 1

于是,这段非凡的旅程就此开启,直接导向了以太坊的诞生。

So this starts this kinda incredible journey that, like, directly leads to Ethereum.

Speaker 1

所以维塔利克决定,世界上到处都在举办各种比特币聚会和会议。

So what Vitalik decides he's gonna do, there are all these Bitcoin meetups and conferences that are happening all over the world.

Speaker 1

他觉得自己靠写作赚的钱已经足够了,嗯。

He decides he has enough money that he's making from doing his writing Mhmm.

Speaker 1

尤其是当比特币这种货币开始升值时。

Especially as Bitcoin, the currency starts to appreciate.

Speaker 1

他决定干脆四处旅行,参加所有这些活动,结识社区成员,了解各种正在发生的项目,并撰写相关文章。

He decides he's just gonna travel around and go to all of them and meet the community and hear about all these projects that are happening and write about them.

Speaker 0

这是哪一年?

What year is this?

Speaker 1

这是2013年夏天。

This is summer twenty thirteen.

Speaker 1

好的。

Okay.

Speaker 1

所以我们马上就要进入以太坊的起点了。

So we're we're very close to the start of Ethereum here.

Speaker 1

他去参加了阿姆斯特丹的一场会议,在那里认识了一位名叫阿米尔·切特雷特的男子,此人正在以色列从事一个名为“彩色币”的项目。

He goes to one conference in Amsterdam, where he meets a guy named Amir Chetret, who was working on a project in Israel called Colored Coins.

Speaker 1

所有这些线索即将开始汇聚在一起。

This is where it's all gonna start to come together.

Speaker 1

嗯。

Mhmm.

Speaker 1

彩色币是在比特币网络之上构建的,他们希望将房地产或法币等现实世界资产、你懂的,金融资产,进行证券化并引入到比特币区块链上。

So Colored Coins was building on top of the Bitcoin network, and they wanted to bring in real world assets like real estate or fiat currencies, real world, you know, financial assets, securitize them, and bring them onto the Bitcoin blockchain.

Speaker 1

好吧。

Like, okay.

Speaker 1

你知道,当时很多人都在思考这个想法。

You know, that was an idea a lot of people were thinking about.

Speaker 1

所以他邀请阿米尔邀请维塔利克去特拉维夫与他会面,见见团队,当时特拉维夫还有几个其他项目,他们 collectively 把这个群体称为 bitcoin2.o。

So he invites Amir invites Vitalik to come to Tel Aviv and meet up with him, see the team, and there are a few other projects that are happening in Tel Aviv at the time that they're sort of collectively calling this group bitcoin2.o.

Speaker 1

这其实是一个自封的以色列群体,他们打算打造 bitcoin2.o。

Like, it's a self proclaimed group of people in Israel that are gonna create bitcoin2.o.

Speaker 0

本质上,这是构建在比特币之上的一个层。

And it's essentially, like, a layer on top of Bitcoin.

Speaker 0

对吧?

Right?

Speaker 0

他们并没有提议对比特币本身做任何改动。

They're not proposing any changes to Bitcoin itself.

Speaker 1

这就是他们的想法。

That's the thinking.

Speaker 1

他们打算开始构建了。

They're gonna start building.

Speaker 1

维塔利克后来用了一个类比,其他人也用过这个类比:他们要把比特币变成一把瑞士军刀。

Vitalik would later use the analogy, and other people would use the analogy of, like, they're gonna turn Bitcoin into a Swiss army knife.

Speaker 1

就像比特币是这把刀的刀柄,他们要在上面构建小刀、螺丝刀、牙签以及各种不同的工具。

Like, Bitcoin is the the chassis of the knife, and they're gonna build, you know, the small knife, and the screwdriver, and the toothpick, and all the different tools around it.

Speaker 0

而彩色币所做的,有点像是在说:

And what Colored Coins was doing was sort of like, hey.

Speaker 0

我要把我对某项财产的所有权记录在区块链上,这样这个财产,或者现实世界中的任何实物,都可以通过区块链上的一个标记来识别。

I'm gonna put the fact that I own this property on the blockchain so that this property or any physical fig of the real world can be sort of identified by a a marker on the blockchain.

Speaker 1

我觉得这是对的。

I think that's right.

Speaker 1

所以这是一种代表形式。

So it's like a representation.

Speaker 2

是的。

Mhmm.

Speaker 1

我觉得这就是他们的计划。

I think that was the plan.

Speaker 1

所以维塔利克过去后,与许多团队会面了。

So Vitalik goes over, meets up with a bunch of teams.

Speaker 1

这个比特币2.0运动中的另一个团队叫做Master Coin。

One of the other teams in this sort of bitcoin2.o movement is a team called Master Coin.

Speaker 1

他们所设想的是,在比特币之上构建一个类似瑞士军刀的工具,允许任何人基于比特币网络创建自己的其他货币,并为这些货币进行融资。

And what they're thinking about, they're sort of a Swiss army knife tool that they're gonna build on top of Bitcoin, is, the ability for anybody to create their own other currencies on top of Bitcoin, the Bitcoin network, and then fundraise for those currencies.

Speaker 1

这听起来像是人们在不远的未来可能会想做的事情。

This sounds like something people might wanna do in the not too distant future.

Speaker 0

当然。

For sure.

Speaker 0

这时候有必要澄清几个概念,当作一个词汇讲解。

And this is where it's worth, disambiguating a couple things just as a vocabulary lesson.

Speaker 0

在以太坊的世界里,以太坊——我知道我这里提前跳转了——

In the world of Ethereum, Ethereum and I know I'm flashing forward here.

Speaker 0

以太坊是网络,而以太币(简称ETH)是存在于该网络上的代币和货币。

Ethereum is the network, and Ether, abbreviated ETH, is the token, the the currency that exists on that network.

Speaker 0

但在比特币的世界里,区块链被称为比特币,而代币或货币也叫做比特币。

But in the world of Bitcoin, the blockchain is called Bitcoin, and the coin or token is called Bitcoin.

Speaker 0

所以你可以买卖比特币,而且还有一个被称为比特币区块链的区块链存在。

And so there's, like, you can buy and sell Bitcoins, and there's a blockchain that exists that is also called the Bitcoin blockchain.

Speaker 0

因此,他们的提议基本上是:我们想找到一种方法,在比特币区块链上创建不是比特币的其他货币。

And so their proposal here is basically, like, we wanna find a way to create other currencies to exist on the Bitcoin blockchain that is not Bitcoin.

Speaker 1

不是比特币。

That is not Bitcoin.

Speaker 1

没错。

Exactly.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

这很混乱。

It's confused.

Speaker 1

比特币本质上是两样东西。

Bitcoin is basically Bitcoin is two things.

Speaker 1

我们在这一集中稍微谈过这一点。

We talked about this a little bit in the episode.

Speaker 1

比特币就是比特币在比特币上。

Bitcoin is Bitcoin on Bitcoin.

Speaker 1

比特币作为货币,而比特币网络则是区块链。

Bitcoin being the currency and the Bitcoin network being the blockchain.

Speaker 0

是的。

Yep.

Speaker 1

所以,没错,Mastercoin 让其他货币能够在比特币网络上运行的方式,是通过一种叫做智能合约的计算机科学概念,这个概念很多人可能听说过,人们常把以太坊称为智能合约语言。

So, yeah, the way that Mastercoin was gonna make this happen of allowing these other currencies to exist on the Bitcoin network was through this concept, this computer science concept called smart contracts, which people might have heard of, and people talk about Ethereum being the smart contract language.

Speaker 1

智能合约这个概念其实是早在当年由尼克·萨博提出的,他就是那个提出 BitGold 的人,如果你还记得这集的内容的话。

So smart contracts were actually the concept was invented by Nick Sabo way back in the day, who was the dude who proposed BitGold, if you remember from the episode.

Speaker 0

也是在密码朋克圈里。

Also on the cypher funk.

Speaker 0

邮件?

Emails?

Speaker 1

算是密码朋克吧。

Sort of a cipher funk.

Speaker 1

我认为他其实也是一名律师。

He was actually a lawyer too, I believe.

Speaker 1

他并不懂技术。

He wasn't technical.

Speaker 1

所以他从未实现过BitGold。

So he never implemented bit gold.

Speaker 1

那只是一个提案,但它是少数几个与比特币非常接近的提案之一。

It was just a proposal, but it's one of the couple proposals that were sort of closest to what Bitcoin

Speaker 0

确实启发了比特币。

Definitely inspired Bitcoin.

Speaker 1

确实受到了启发。

Definitely inspired

Speaker 0

无论萨托奇在哪里,他肯定都是基于这种基础开展工作的。

Wherever Satoshi is definitely worked from that sort of foundation.

Speaker 1

萨托奇正是站在这些先驱的肩膀上。

Those were the shoulders that Satoshi stood upon.

Speaker 1

所以,萨博将智能合约定义为一组承诺。

So Sable, he defined smart contracts as quote, unquote, a set of promises.

Speaker 1

记住,他来自法律背景。

Remember, he's coming from a legal background.

Speaker 1

一组以数字形式规定的承诺,包括各方在此承诺下执行的协议。

A set of promises specified in digital form, including protocols within which the parties perform on these promises.

Speaker 1

那这意味着什么?

So what does that mean?

Speaker 1

基本上,通过做研究,我意识到智能合约其实就是代码。

Basically, smart contracts and is this what I realized in doing the research, it's just code.

Speaker 1

它是代码,可以是任意的,但只有在特定条件满足时才会执行。

It's code that can be arbitrary, but it executes if and only if certain conditions are met.

Speaker 1

这可以说是创新之处。

That was kind of the innovation.

Speaker 1

当你将这一点与区块链以及像比特币这样的系统结合时,那里存在一个所有人都无法否认的真相,无法争论条件是否满足,这就为智能合约真正发挥作用创造了环境。

And then when you marry that with a blockchain and something like Bitcoin, where, like, there is a ground truth, like, nobody can argue over whether conditions are met or not, then you seed the environment for these smart contracts to actually be really useful.

Speaker 0

对。

Right.

Speaker 0

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 0

你所说的意思是,如果所有东西——包括资产、加密货币以及条件逻辑——都真正存在于区块链上,那么你就能实现一些能够可靠地按你预期运行的机制。

What what you're saying is, if everything is actually on the blockchain, the assets, you know, the the cryptocurrency, and the conditional logic is also on the blockchain, then you can have things that will sort of provably do what you think they are going to do.

Speaker 0

而在现实世界中,你有一份由律师起草的合同,然后需要人们实际去执行合同中规定的内容,这些本质上都是‘笨拙的合同’。

Whereas, you know, in the real world, you've got a contract that's written by a lawyer, and then it takes people actually carrying out the work that that contract says you know, they're effectively dumb contracts.

Speaker 0

它们还需要人类作为‘编译器’来解读,确保合同中的逻辑能够被解析,并与现实世界中的事物进行交互。

They then require a human compiler to go through and then make sure that the logic that is in that contract can be sort of parsed and then interface with things in the real world.

Speaker 1

你还会陷入各种争论,比如这些条件是否满足?

And you can get into all sorts of arguments about, well, were these conditions matter?

Speaker 1

这些条件到底有没有被满足?

Were these not conditions not met?

Speaker 1

这就是为什么我们需要法律体系、法官和律师。

And that's why we have our legal system and judges and lawyers.

Speaker 0

是的

Yep.

Speaker 0

有一个可执行的规范,可以直接操作资产进行转移。

You know, there's one spec that's written that is executable that has direct manipulation over the assets to move it.

Speaker 0

这非常聪明。

It's pretty genius.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 1

完全正确。

Totally.

Speaker 1

所以中本聪设计的比特币网络,并不是他不知道智能合约的存在。

So the Bitcoin network in Satoshi, it's not like he didn't know about smart contracts.

Speaker 1

它实际上使用了智能合约。

It uses it.

Speaker 1

比特币网络中确实存在智能合约,但功能有限。

There are smart contracts in the Bitcoin network, but they're limited.

Speaker 1

只有非常特定、非常小的一组函数,你可以以编程意义上的方式调用它们,嗯。

There's only a very specific, very small set of functions that you can call functions in the programming sense Mhmm.

Speaker 1

作为比特币智能合约的一部分,你可以调用这些函数。

That you can call as part of Bitcoin's smart contracts.

Speaker 1

因此,Mastercoin、彩色币以及所有这些其他人在比特币2.0运动中所做的,本质上是编写了更多你可以调用的智能合约函数。

And so what Mastercoin and Colored Coins and all these other folks were doing the bit in the bitcoin2.o movement, they were writing essentially more functions that you can call in smart contracts.

Speaker 1

所以维塔利克,他当时和这些人混在一起。

So Vitalik, like, he's hanging out with these guys.

Speaker 1

他说,这真是太棒了。

He's like, well, this is this is great.

Speaker 1

我喜欢这些想法。

I love these ideas.

Speaker 1

我擅长写东西。

I'm good at writing.

Speaker 1

也许我可以帮你们撰写项目白皮书,协助推广并厘清你们正在做的事情。

Maybe I can help you guys write up white papers for your projects and sort of help evangelize and crystallize what you're doing.

Speaker 1

太好了。

That's great.

Speaker 1

他们说:当然可以。

They're like, sure.

Speaker 1

放手去做吧。

Go to town.

Speaker 1

为我们写白皮书。

Work on white papers for us.

Speaker 1

但当他开始为每个项目撰写时,他意识到:嘿。

As he starts the process of writing though for each of these projects, he realizes, like, hey.

Speaker 1

你知道,这些都是一些独立的项目,全都基于比特币,挺酷的。

You know, these things are all separate projects, and this is all kinda cool and building on top of Bitcoin.

Speaker 1

但你们只是触及了更大构想的表面。

But you're all just kinda scratching the surface of a bigger idea.

Speaker 1

这就像打地鼠一样,不断地给比特币添加固定功能。

Like, this is sort of whack a mole of, like, adding set functionality to Bitcoin.

Speaker 1

但如果你懂一点编程,就会知道编程的美妙之处在于图灵完备这个概念——一个图灵完备的编程语言,你可以做任何事情。

But if you know anything about programming, like, the beauty of programming is this idea of Turing completeness that, like, a programming language that is Turing complete, you can do anything.

Speaker 1

开发者不需要任何许可,也不需要预先设定的功能。

You can create a developer doesn't need any permission, doesn't need any set functionality.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yep.

Speaker 1

他或她可以自行编写函数,是的。

She or he can write their own functions Yep.

Speaker 1

并且无限地做任何事情。

And do anything ad infinitum.

Speaker 0

这正是任何软件技术的工作方式。

It's the way that any piece of software technology works.

Speaker 0

你拥有不同层次的抽象,而在最高层、面向用户的层面,你有一个为特定目的设计的应用程序,通常是为了满足某类特定用户执行某种业务逻辑,比如Slack。

That you have these varying levels of abstraction, and at the highest, you know, user facing layer, you have this sort of application where that is designed for a specific purpose, often for a a very specific type of user performing a certain business logic, take Slack.

Speaker 0

你知道,这是一个非常抽象的东西,你有一个可以输入的字段,还有一个聊天窗口。

You know, that's a very abstract, thing that is a field that you type in, you know, that's got a chat window.

Speaker 0

这是一个应用程序。

It's an application.

Speaker 0

在比特币领域,人们所做的事有点类似——这是一个有点牵强的类比——他们基本上是在比特币之上构建高度特定的应用程序,并试图扩展它。

And what people are sort of doing in this Bitcoin land and this is a little bit of a stretched analogy here, but they're basically building highly specific applications on top of Bitcoin and trying to sort of extend it.

Speaker 1

这就像比特币网络是一个计算器,而不是一台计算机。

It's kinda like the Bitcoin network is a calculator, not a computer.

Speaker 0

对。

Right.

Speaker 0

维塔利克基本上说的是,但如果我们可以调用的指令集、函数或指令是非常通用、非常抽象的,甚至还有更高级的抽象层次,可以在其上构建应用程序,那会怎样?

And what Vitalik's basically saying is, but what if the instruction set, the sets of functions or or instructions that we could sort of call, were very general purpose, very sort of abstract, where there's even further, levels of abstraction that applications that could be built on top of that.

Speaker 0

这是一个极其危险的尝试,因为它可能以各种方式被利用。

And it's a dangerously difficult undertaking because it's exploitable in all sorts of ways.

Speaker 0

它需要极其强大的安全性。

It it requires incredible amounts of security.

Speaker 0

它要求你仔细思考每个人如何利用你这套非常原始的底层指令,来构建他们想要的任何东西。

It requires you to really think through every way that someone could use your very primitive set of, of low level instructions to craft whatever they want.

Speaker 0

但如果你能做到,那将是一个了不起的基石。

But if you can do it, then it's a hell of a foundation.

Speaker 1

这是一个巨大的想法。

This is a huge idea.

Speaker 1

巨大的想法。

Huge idea.

Speaker 1

我的意思是,基本上就是在说,比特币就像一个计算器。

I mean, basically, saying, like, Bitcoin is a calculator.

Speaker 1

让我们来建造一台计算机。

Let's build a computer.

Speaker 1

如果我们真的要建造一台计算机,那它必须是完全不同的东西。

And if we're gonna build a computer, it's gotta be a wholly different thing.

Speaker 1

于是他首先去找了Mastercoin团队,告诉他们这个想法。

So he goes first to the Mastercoin team and tells them about this.

Speaker 1

他对他们说:嘿,我正在研究你们的白皮书。

He's like, hey, I'm working on your white paper.

Speaker 1

如果你们改做这个呢?

What if you guys did this instead?

Speaker 1

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

Speaker 1

而Mastercoin团队,说句公道话,他们觉得:哇,这真是个宏大的想法。

And the Mastercoin team, you know, sort of half to their credit, they're like, wow, that is a big idea.

Speaker 1

这真的很酷。

That's really cool.

Speaker 1

但另一方面,他们也犯了严重错误,说:我们要专注于我们正在做的事。

And then half to their incredible detriment, they're like, we're gonna stay focused on what we're doing.

Speaker 1

这可能是个错误。

That was probably a mistake.

Speaker 0

让我再进一步澄清一下,因为我一直觉得,这有点牵强。

Let me just crystallize this even further just because I keep thinking on the it is a stretched

Speaker 1

要将它变成真正的计算机,你需要的是一种脚本语言,比如通用脚本语言。

Scripting being what you would need, like universal scripting language as part of this to turn it into a real computer.

Speaker 1

是的

Yep.

Speaker 1

所以维塔利克,一开始他有点失望。

So Vitalik, you know, at first, he's a little, like, disappointed.

Speaker 1

于是他离开特拉维夫,前往世界上可能最合适的地点——当时乃至今天,如果你有一个改变世界的大想法,想让别人认真对待你,哪怕你并不广为人知。

So he leaves Tel Aviv and heads to probably the one place in the world, certainly then, and and probably still today, where the best place where if you've got the big world changing idea, you want people to take you seriously even if you're not, you know, super well known.

Speaker 1

他去了旧金山。

He goes to San Francisco.

Speaker 1

当然,别忘了,他认识Ripple团队,而Ripple的总部就在旧金山。

So and, of course, remember, he knew the Ripple team, and Ripple's based in San Francisco.

Speaker 1

他抵达后,住进了Ripple的CTO斯特凡·托马斯在索马区的公寓,睡在人家的沙发上。

He shows up, he couch surfs, he crashes on the couch in the apartment of Ripple's CTO, Stefan Thomas, in SoMa.

Speaker 1

他在旧金山待了两周,白天里来回交替做着两件事。

And he spends two weeks in San Francisco, and he just, like he alternates between during the days.

Speaker 1

他沿着旧金山的山丘上下长时间散步,然后回来就埋头撰写白皮书。

He he goes, like, on long walks around San Francisco, up and down the hills, and then he comes back and he just writes the white paper.

Speaker 1

他根本没和斯特凡说话。

Like, he doesn't talk to Stefan.

Speaker 1

斯特凡有一次说,嘿,我想听听你对Ripple的看法,

Stefan once things like, hey, I want your thoughts on, you know, Ripple and,

Speaker 0

对,没错。

like Right.

Speaker 1

也许你可以写点关于Ripple的东西,帮我们推广一下。

Maybe you should write about Ripple, you know, and evangelize us.

Speaker 1

他说,不行。

And he's like, no.

Speaker 1

不行。

No.

Speaker 1

不行。

No.

Speaker 1

我专心做自己的事。

I'm focused.

Speaker 1

于是他在两周内写出了后来成为以太坊白皮书的文档。

And so he writes the white paper in two weeks, what would become the Ethereum white paper.

Speaker 1

起初,他将其命名为终极智能合约和去中心化应用平台。

At first, he titles it the ultimate smart contract and decentralized application platform.

Speaker 1

然后他渐渐意识到,维塔利克嘛,你知道的,他很擅长写作。

And then he kinda realizes, you know, again, Vitalik is you know, he knows how to write.

Speaker 1

他懂得如何说服别人。

He knows how to convince people.

Speaker 1

他想:我得给这个项目取个酷炫的名字。

He's like, I need a cool name for this project.

Speaker 1

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

Speaker 1

于是他开始在维基百科上浏览科幻术语,寻找灵感,最终看到了一个词——我不确定是读作‘ether’还是‘aether’。

So he starts scrolling through Wikipedia looking for science fiction terms that he can sort of use as inspiration sci fi terms, and he comes across the word I don't know if it's pronounced ether or aether.

Speaker 1

我一直以为是‘aether’,a-e-t-h-e-r。

I always thought it was aether, a e t h e r.

Speaker 1

以太

Ether.

Speaker 1

我们就叫它以太吧。

Let's just call it ether.

Speaker 1

这个概念,我记得是从中学时候就听说过。

This concept, I remember this from, like, way back in middle school.

Speaker 1

它起源于古希腊人,他们认为以太是宇宙中的第五元素。

It originated with the ancient Greeks who thought that ether was the fifth element out there.

Speaker 1

你知道的,那是什么来着?

You know, there's like what is it?

Speaker 1

风、火、水、土,我想是这些吧,

Wind, fire, water, earth, I think,

Speaker 0

是那

were the

Speaker 1

四个元素。

four elements.

Speaker 1

有道理。

Makes sense.

Speaker 1

所以古希腊人假设这些是人类的四大元素,但还存在第五种元素,称为以太,是希腊诸神呼吸的物质。

So the ancient Greeks postulated that those were, like, the human elements, but there was this fifth element called ether that the gods the medieval the Greek gods breathed.

Speaker 1

这个想法在人类历史上从未被彻底摒弃。

And this idea kinda never got stamped out in human history.

Speaker 1

因此,在中世纪,当科学革命刚开始兴起时,人们假设以太是一种看不见的物质,充满整个宇宙,光就是通过它传播的。

So, like, in medieval times, just when the scientific revolution was kinda getting going, people postulated that ether was a invisible substance that permeated the universe that light

Speaker 2

传播,是的。

traveled Yeah.

Speaker 1

它就像一种力量。

It's like the force.

Speaker 1

没错,它就是那种力量。

It's exactly it's like the force.

Speaker 1

特别是光是通过以太传播的。

And specifically, light was conducted through ether.

Speaker 1

你知道,众神是呼吸它的。

You know, the gods breathe it.

Speaker 1

随便吧。

Whatever.

Speaker 1

不管怎样,这已经被证伪了。

Anyway, been disproved.

Speaker 1

不是这么回事。

Not not the case.

Speaker 1

但维塔利克认为这完美极了。

But Vitalik thinks this is perfect.

Speaker 1

他心想,天啊。

He's like, oh, man.

Speaker 1

那种众神呼吸的、充满整个宇宙、光得以传导的物质。

The substance that the gods breathe, that it permeates the entire universe, that light gets, you know, conducted through.

Speaker 1

太棒了。

Great.

Speaker 1

我要借用这个术语。

I'm gonna borrow this term.

Speaker 1

所以,以太实际上确实存在,我要用它来命名我的项目。

So, actually, ether does exist, and I'm gonna use it to title my project.

Speaker 1

于是他提出了以太坊网络,其上的原生货币就是以太。

So he comes up with the Ethereum network, of which the currency native currency on top of it is ether.

Speaker 1

搞定。

Boom.

Speaker 1

它诞生了。

It's born.

Speaker 0

挺不错的名字。

Pretty good name.

Speaker 0

如果你读过这份白皮书,会发现它既很长,又技术性很强。

And if you read this white paper, it's pretty, a, long, and b, technically complex.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yes.

Speaker 1

这不像比特币的白皮书。

This is not like the Bitcoin white paper.

Speaker 0

没错。

No.

Speaker 0

比特币白皮书虽然包含一些相当复杂的数学公式,但基本上用简洁的 prose 阐述了这些巧妙机制的存在方式以及它们如何协同工作。

The Bitcoin white paper, while it does have some reasonably complex mathematical formulas, it basically succinctly lays out in prose how each of these clever mechanisms exist and how they'll sort of all work together.

Speaker 0

以太坊白皮书就像是为一种新型汇编语言设计的指令集架构,以及它所运行的机器类型,寄存器会是这样的。

The Ethereum white paper is like, here's the instruction set architecture for a new type of assembly language, and, the the type of machine that it will run on, the registers are gonna look like this.

Speaker 0

我的意思是,这就像回到了我在大学的操作系统课上。

I mean, it's like it's like going back to my operating systems class in college.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

我们会附上链接。

We'll link to it.

Speaker 1

你应该去看看,读一读,但你也应该去读一下中本聪的白皮书。

You should go look at it, read it, but, like, don't you you should go read the Satoshi white paper.

Speaker 1

任何人都能读懂。

Anybody can read that.

Speaker 1

我明白。

I understand that.

Speaker 1

这是面向技术受众的。

This it's for a technical audience.

Speaker 0

有趣的是,在这之上还有一个更技术性的规范,叫做黄皮书,就像我在微软的时候,产品经理写规范,规范批准后,开发人员再写设计文档,我觉得是这样。

The funny thing is then there's even a further technical specification on top of that called yellow paper, which is like like, when I was at Microsoft, we had the PMs wrote the spec, and then once the specs was signed off, then the devs wrote the, like, the design document, I think.

Speaker 0

实际上就是软件架构的方式。

Was actually how, like, the software would be architectured.

Speaker 0

所以这有点像规范,然后是开发人员的设计文档,是的。

So it's sort of like the spec and then the developer design doc of Yeah.

Speaker 0

以太坊。

Ethereum.

Speaker 1

真有趣。

So funny.

Speaker 1

那会稍后才出现。

That would come a little later.

Speaker 1

在此之前还有更多戏剧性的事情。

More drama before then.

Speaker 1

所以, basically,我们之前讨论过,以太坊就像一台计算机,而比特币则像计算器,或者说是没有操作系统的计算机。

So, basically, like, know, we've talked about, you know, Ethereum being the computer versus Bitcoin, you know, the calculator or that or, like, a computer without an operating system.

Speaker 1

这带来了两个主要后果。

There are two kinda, like, big consequences of this.

Speaker 1

首先,你拥有一台图灵完备、通用可编程的计算机,并且内置了一种原生货币。

So one, you've got a Turing complete, generally programmable computer with a native currency in it.

Speaker 1

现在,代码和金钱结合在了一起。

You now have code with money.

Speaker 1

嗯。

Mhmm.

Speaker 1

所以,你知道,比特币有金钱,但几乎没有代码。

So, you know, with Bitcoin, you have money and not really code.

Speaker 1

在正常的非加密货币世界中,你有代码。

With normal non crypto world, you've got code.

Speaker 0

有很多代码,但完全与金钱分离。

Lots of code, but completely separate from money.

Speaker 1

完全与金钱分离。

Completely separate from money.

Speaker 1

在Vitalik设计以太坊的方式中,以太坊网络中有两种类型的账户。

Here so the way Vitalik architects Ethereum, there are two types of accounts in the Ethereum network.

Speaker 1

可以持有、花费和操作以太币并执行代码的账户。

Accounts that can hold and spend and do things with Ether and can execute code.

Speaker 1

有一种是用户账户,也就是人类持有的账户。

There are user accounts, you know, which humans would hold.

Speaker 1

就像一个钱包。

Like a wallet.

Speaker 1

就像一个钱包。

Like a wallet.

Speaker 1

是的

Yeah.

Speaker 1

它们是用户账户。

They're user accounts.

Speaker 1

但还有合约和智能合约账户。

But then there also are contracts and smart contract accounts.

Speaker 1

它们和用户账户完全相同。

They are exactly the same as user accounts.

Speaker 1

所以

So

Speaker 0

Yeah.

Speaker 0

这就像我们之前讨论过的抽象的巧妙之处。

This is kind of like the cleverness of abstraction thing that we were talking about earlier.

Speaker 0

就像,我能把东西做得多底层、多可定制?

It's like, how low level and and customizable can I make stuff?

Speaker 0

而且这一点体现在用户账户和合约都是账户的某种子类上。

And it's you just see it show up in the fact that both user accounts and contracts are sort of a subclass of account.

Speaker 0

是的。

Yep.

Speaker 0

这种巧妙之处在于,嗯,这个账户就在这里,你可以将你的合约上传到它上面。

And the cleverness of, yep, this account exists over here, and you can upload your contract to it.

Speaker 0

当然,你需要付费,我们稍后会谈到如何让你的合约在这个位置上线。

And, of course, you have to pay, and we'll talk about that of of of getting your contract to go live in this location.

Speaker 0

但在此之后的任何时间,人们都可以向它发送输入。

But then at any point after that, people can send inputs to it.

Speaker 0

合约会执行,然后输出

The contract will execute, and then the outputs

Speaker 1

会向它转账。

have money to it.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

所以你实际上拥有的代码合约与用户账户完全相同,意味着它们拥有自己的资金。

So you've got literally the code contracts that are the same as the user accounts, meaning they have their own money.

Speaker 1

代码拥有自己的资金。

The code has its own money.

Speaker 1

这以前从未发生过。

This has never happened before.

Speaker 1

这太重要了。

This is huge.

Speaker 1

所以这只是两大理念中的一个。

So that's just one of the two big ideas.

Speaker 1

另一个重大影响是,如果这个网络真的被实现,它将成为一个前所未有的全球分布式计算机。

The other big consequence of this is that if this network actually gets instantiated, it's gonna be a world distributed computer like there has never been before.

Speaker 1

所以,你知道,人们称以太坊为全球计算机。

So, like, you know, people call Ethereum the world computer.

Speaker 1

这就是他们的意思。

This is what they mean.

Speaker 1

当然,还有 AWS。

Of course, there's AWS.

Speaker 1

还有 Azure。

There's Azure.

Speaker 1

你知道,外面有各种各样的云计算,但亚马逊拥有 AWS。

You know, there's all sorts of, like, cloud computing out there, but, like, Amazon owns AWS.

Speaker 1

而且,比如

And, like

Speaker 0

对。

Right.

Speaker 1

你可以去查一下他们所有数据中心的位置之类的。

You can go find, like, all the locations that all their data centers are and, like, you know, whatnot.

Speaker 1

这就像是一个东西。

It's like a thing.

Speaker 1

你知道吧?

You know?

Speaker 1

它不太可能宕机,但亚马逊在运营它。

It's unlikely it's ever gonna go down, but Amazon runs it.

Speaker 0

对。

Right.

Speaker 0

让我们暂时把智能合约中的资金部分去掉。

Let's take the smart contract and just remove the money component for a moment here.

Speaker 0

这有点像思考无服务器架构,甚至服务器架构。

It's sort of like thinking about, you know, serverless architecture or even server architecture.

Speaker 0

你编写一些代码。

You write some code.

Speaker 0

你将它部署到某个端点。

You deploy it to an endpoint somewhere.

Speaker 0

你暴露一个具有输入和输出的API。

You expose an API that has an input and output.

Speaker 0

但这段代码是运行在一台服务器上的。

But, like, that code lives on one server.

Speaker 0

可能有一些复制,但它确实存在于某个数据中心的服务器上。

There's probably some replication, but, like, it's on a server in a data center.

Speaker 0

当你将合约部署到以太坊区块链的某个位置时,它会被复制到以太坊网络上所有数十万乃至数百万个节点上。

When you deploy in Ethereum, your contract to a location on the blockchain, that is replicated on all million or whatever, hundreds of thousands of nodes on the Ethereum network

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 0

每个节点都保存了一份副本。

That sort of have a copy of that.

Speaker 1

就像比特币网络上的每个节点都保存着包含所有交易历史的账本一样。

Just like every node on the Bitcoin network has a copy of the ledger with all the transaction history.

Speaker 1

这里的情况也是一样的。

Same deal here.

Speaker 1

网络上的每个节点都保存着所有代码的副本。

Every node on the network has a copy of all the code.

Speaker 0

对。

Right.

Speaker 0

当你在脑海中想象这一点时,你应该意识到:这太强大了。

And as you're visualizing this, where your brain should go is, wow, that's powerful.

Speaker 0

同时,你也应该想到:这种分布式特性确实很难被摧毁。

And then simultaneously, it should go, jeez, that distributed nature, I could really imagine that being like, you know, it's it's hard to take it down.

Speaker 0

你可以拔掉服务器的电源,但一旦代码部署了,这个智能合约就很难撤销了。

Like, you can unplug a server from the wall, but, like, once that code's kinda deployed, that smart contract, it's pretty hard to undo.

Speaker 1

我们马上就会谈到这一点。

We are gonna get into that.

Speaker 0

最后,你的脑海里应该想到:这效率很低。

And lastly, your mind should go to a place where you're like, well, that's pretty inefficient.

Speaker 0

等等。

Like wait.

Speaker 0

所以它必须去到什么?

So it has to go to ev what?

Speaker 0

这会消耗大量的能源和时间,天哪。

That that's gonna cost a lot of energy and time and jeez.

Speaker 0

也许会导致大量的网络拥塞。

Maybe that there'd be a lot of, like, network congestion.

Speaker 0

所以,当你开始理解这个架构时,你会觉得,好吧。

So already, as you're starting to understand the architecture of this, you're like, okay.

Speaker 0

这对某些事情非常有效,但代价巨大。

Really, really good for some stuff and at great cost.

Speaker 1

是的。

Yeah.

Speaker 1

我后来在笔记中提到过这一点,但为了上下文,我提前说一下:你知道,即使在2021年中期,人们还在讨论以太坊——这个‘世界计算机’的算力,大致相当于一台连接家用宽带的树莓派。

I had this later in the notes, but to pull it forward just for context, you know, people talk about even today, you know, in 2021, mid twenty twenty one, the relative power of the computer that is Ethereum, you know, the world computer is roughly equivalent to a Raspberry Pi on a home broadband connection.

Speaker 1

而它正在运行着一切。

And that is running everything.

Speaker 0

但它确实是稳定得要命的数据。

But it is stable AF data.

Speaker 1

太棒了。

That's great.

Speaker 1

也许吧。

Maybe.

Speaker 1

也许吧。

Maybe.

Speaker 1

我们会谈到这个的。

We'll get into that.

Speaker 1

好的。

Okay.

Speaker 1

这真的非常酷,尤其是对于一个18岁的孩子来说。

So this is all pretty freaking cool, especially for, like, an 18 year old.

Speaker 1

2013年11月27日,维塔利克当时可能还在旧金山。

So 11/27/2013, Vitalik I think he's still in San Francisco at this point.

Speaker 1

他已经完成了以太坊白皮书的第一版草稿。

He's done his draft of the first draft of the Ethereum white paper.

Speaker 1

他将这份文档邮件发送给他在加密社区认识的一小群人,征求他们的反馈。

He emails it out to a very small group of people that he knows from the crypto community to ask for their feedback.

Speaker 1

所以卡米拉在《无限机器》一书中写道,我将引用原文:维塔利克确信他的作品会被彻底批判。

So Camilla, writes in the Infinite Machine here, I'm gonna quote, that Vitalik was, quote unquote, sure his work was gonna get torn apart.

Speaker 1

对于如此宏大的想法,必然存在一个非常充分的理由说明为什么没人尝试过,但这种情况从未发生。

With an idea this big, there has to be a very good reason why nobody has tried to do it, but that never happened.

Speaker 1

维塔利克的邮件被不断转发,结果他收到的不是少量回复,而是一波又一波来自对项目充满热情、希望与他合作的人的回应。

Vitalik's email got forwarded and then forwarded again so that instead what he got was a flood of responses from people who were excited about the project and wanted to work with him.

Speaker 1

维塔利克的愿景太过宏大,无法被局限。

Vitalik's vision was much too big to be constrained.

Speaker 1

他设想的是创建一个万物的基础层——一台能够同时存在于庞大全球网络所有节点上的计算机,能够无间断、无干扰地处理任何输入,让开发者自由构建他们想象中的任何应用,且无人能阻止他们或他们的程序,就像一台无限机器。

He was thinking about creating a base layer for everything, a computer that could simultaneously live in all the nodes of an enormous global network, which would be able to process anything you threw at it without downtime or interference, so developers could build whatever they dreamed of, and nobody would be able to stop them or their applications like an infinite machine.

Speaker 1

真的太酷了。

Pretty freaking cool.

Speaker 0

非常酷。

Very cool.

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