华特迪士尼公司

现在美国普通人一年去两次电影院。

The the American the average American goes to a movie theater twice a year now.

对啊。

Yeah.

那时候，你可以去电影院，也可以去看现场演出，比如芭蕾、歌剧，或者体育赛事，像棒球赛，也可以去电影院。

I mean, back then, it was like you could go to the movie theater, or you could go see a live show, ballet or opera or or like a sporting event, like a baseball game, or you go to the movie theater.

没错。

That's it.

去剧院的时候，那是一整套体验。

And when you go to the theater, it was a bundle.

没错，你是去看演出，但我想你真正想说的是，那时候还有那些搞笑的卡通片。

I mean, yeah, you were there for a production, but I think the point you're trying to make is there were also these cartoons with gags.

还有新闻短片。

There were newsreels.

你来看的主打影片只是其中一部分，整个安排其实是一整套内容。

There was the the feature you're there to see, but it's sort of this, like, bundle of, alright.

咱们看看今天影院给我准备了什么。

Let's see what the theater has in store for me today.

没错。

Yep.

正是如此。

Exactly.

根据对影院经理的一项调查，只有23%的受访者表示还会在放映主片前加映卡通短片，这个比例远低于其他任何附加内容。

So this survey of theater managers, only 23 of respondents say that they show cartoons as part of the bundle and that their audience is, like which is by far the lowest of any of the other filler options.

所以《笑画》系列除了在堪萨斯城本地有点人气外，很难在其他地方打开市场。

So Laugh-ogram can't really find a market outside of their local popularity in Kansas City.

到了1923年，这家公司破产倒闭了。

And in 1923, the company goes bankrupt and shuts down.

而沃尔特，现在成了堪萨斯城一位声誉受损的创业者。

And Walt, there's now this sort of 1.5 times disgraced entrepreneur here in Kansas City.

又重新走上了他父亲的老路。

Falling back right in his dad's footsteps.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

完全正确。

Exactly.

他从堪萨斯城的朋友们和家人那里筹集了资金。

And he raised money from people in Kansas City, friends, family.

他借了别人的钱，结果却让人家亏了本。

He he went and lost people's loan capital that they gave him.

对。

Yep.

于是，沃尔特去找他富有的叔叔罗伯特，请教他该如何应对这次失败。

So Walt goes to rich uncle Robert for advice on what to do given his failure.

罗伯特说，孩子，要是我，我就会直接离开这儿。

And Robert says, you know, kid, best thing to do if I were you, I would just skip town.

赶紧走人。

Get out of there.

那时候，这其实是个很明智的建议。

Which actually is really sound advice for back then.

你知道的。

You know?

那时候，一个人的名声可不会跟着人到处跑。

People's reputations did not travel with them.

没错。

Nope.

你的信誉只限于你所在城镇里的人对你的看法，出了本地，别人根本无从知晓。

Your credit was the credit locally that you had with the people in your town, and no other way to find you otherwise.

巧的是，罗伯特和沃尔特的哥哥罗伊也刚从堪萨斯城溜了，搬去西边的洛杉矶了。

Now it just so happens that both Robert and Walt's older brother Roy have just also skipped town from Kansas City and moved out west to Los Angeles.

于是沃尔特收拾了行囊——那时候他几乎没什么东西，就上了开往洛杉矶的圣达菲火车，去好莱坞投奔他们。

So Walt packs his belongings, which is basically nothing at this point in time, hops aboard the Santa Fe train bound for LA and joins them in Hollywood.

他抵达那里时是1923年夏天，刚满21岁，住进了叔叔罗伯特家。一开始的事儿，你根本编不出来。

And when he arrives there in the summer of nineteen twenty three, he's 21 years old, he stays with Uncle Robert, And initially, you really can't make this up.

我看到这段的时候，简直不敢相信。

I I couldn't believe this when I read it.

沃尔特一开始还以为自己到了好莱坞，能进哪家制片厂当导演呢。

Walt, at first, thinks that he's come to Hollywood.

他打算在好莱坞的电影公司谋个导演的职位。

He's gonna get a a directing job in Hollywood at one of the studios there.

嗯，他早就放弃做动画的念头了。

Well, yeah, he has abandoned the idea of animation.

他觉得自己来晚了。

He basically thinks he's too late.

他看过一些纽约动画圈出来的东西，心想：我肯定赶不上他们，不如干脆从头开始，干点别的。

He's seen some of the stuff that comes out of the New York cartooning scene, and he's like, well, I'll never be as good as them, so I need to go start over something completely new.

没错。

Right.

这本身就很可笑，而且完全不对。

Which is sort of, you know, silly and wrong in and of its own.

更别说他居然觉得，自己没拍过任何电影，一到好莱坞就能成为下一个格里菲斯。

But also, like, the hubris that he thinks that he could just show up in Hollywood with no directorial experience and become the next D.

W.

W.

格里菲斯。

Griffith.

这就是沃尔特的风格。

That is Walt for you.

你知道环球影城的故事吗？

Do you know the story of the Universal lot?

不知道。

No.

不知道。

No.

没听说过。

No.

他到了环球影城，没工作也没钱，借了张床，还做了假名片，上面写着他属于环球公司。

So he rolls up to the Universal lot after getting there, having no job, no money, borrowing a bed, and he goes and has fake business cards made that says he is with Universal.

他自称是堪萨斯城的代表，环球公司里根本没人认识他。

He's just the Kansas City representative, so no one at Universal would really know who he is.

他把名片递给前台，然后直接走了进去。

And he gives it to the receptionist on the Universal lot, and he walks in.

据我了解，他至少在那儿逛了一整天，拼命了解电影制作的方方面面，把很多东西都记在了心里。

And so he spends at least a day, from what I could tell, roaming around and learning as much as he could about film production and, like, internalizes a lot of those lessons.

之后他隔几天就回来，装作若无其事地说：

And he tries to come back in future days and say, like, oh, yeah.

我可是环球的人了，现在有经验了，能给我个职位吗？

I'm sort of, like, with Universal, and now I have experience, and can you give me a job?

最后他钱花光了，也没能

And he ends up running out of money and doesn't get

找到工作。

a job.

不过真挺厉害的。

But amazing.

我之前都不知道这个故事。

I didn't know that story.

所以当他不可避免地遭到好莱坞各大制片厂的拒绝后，他后来回忆说，当事情看起来毫无希望时，我又把那些卡通作品拿了出来。

So once he inevitably gets rejected at all the major Hollywood studios, he says later, when things began to look hopeless, I got my cartoon things out again.

然后他重新开张，继续做动画。

And he sets up shop animating again.

他心想，正如你所说，本，这是我会做的唯一一件事。

He's like, well, as you said, Ben, this is the one thing I know how to do.

我应该试试这个。

I should try that.

那时候，业内还剩下的唯一热门卡通角色就是菲利克斯猫，没错。

And at this point, pretty much the only popular cartoon left in the industry is Felix the Cat Yep.

这个角色由纽约的帕特·沙利文创作，发行方是同样在纽约的先驱者玛格丽特·温克勒。

Which is created by Pat Sullivan out of New York and distributed by the pioneering Margaret Winkler, also in New York.

所以沃尔特从他失败的《笑画》时期留下了一样东西：一卷混合实拍与动画的短片，是他和尤布在离开堪萨斯城前合作完成的，叫《爱丽丝仙境》，讲的是一个真实的小女孩在银幕上与他们画出来的卡通角色互动。

So Walt has one thing, one asset left over from his failed Laugh O Gram days, which is a reel of a hybrid live action cartoon short that he had created with Ub right before he left Kansas City called Alice's Wonderland, about a real life little girl who interacts on screen with cartoons that they've drawn over the film.

这在当时可是完全开创性的技术。

Which is like completely pioneering technology.

那时候其他做动画的人，都只是单纯画卡通。

The the other people who were doing animation this time were just doing cartoons.

这些后来被称为《爱丽丝喜剧》的作品，是一种新方法：先拍真人演员，再让他们和卡通角色在银幕上互动，把真人融入动画里。

These Alice comedies, as they came to be called, were a new process by which you could go and film a real life actor and then have them interact on screen with cartoon characters and put them in the cartoon.

对。

Yes.

太棒了。

Very cool.

而且这种制作方式成本更低，因为只需要画角色，不用画所有的背景和细节。

And also had the unique property of being cheaper to produce than full animation, because you only had to animate the characters, not all the backgrounds and everything.

没错。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

有个挺有意思但反直觉的现象：实拍比动画快得多，也便宜得多。

There is this funny counterintuitive thing that live production is much faster and cheaper than animation.

你只要架上摄影机，对准现实中存在的东西，就能把所有画面免费拍下来。

You just have a film camera, and you point it at something in the world that exists, and you kinda get everything that you're pointing it at for free.

对。

Yep.

演员在跟各种实物互动。

Like, the actor is interacting with a bunch of stuff.

而做动画的话，每一样东西都得从零开始画。

And when you're making an animated film, you need to draw literally everything from scratch.

这要难得多，

It's it's much harder, and

而且得一帧一帧地画，

you need to do

而不是像拍实拍那样，世界自己在你周围发生，你只需要用摄像机把画面拍下来就行。

it frame by frame by frame by frame rather than the world just sort of happening around you and you taking these exposures in a video camera.

没错。

Yep.

于是沃尔特把《爱丽丝梦游仙境》寄给了温克勒，她很喜欢。

So Walt sends Alice's Wonderland off to Winkler, and she likes it.

于是她委托沃尔特再制作12部爱丽丝喜剧，每部大概1500到1800美元。

So she commissions Walt to create 12 more Alice comedies for, like, 15 to $1,800 each.

她确实这么做了。

She does.

大卫，你知道我们见过这份合同吗？

And, David, did you know we have seen this contract?

这份合同是在迪士尼档案里我们看过的那些文件中吗？

Was this in the documents that we saw in the Disney archives?

是的。

Yes.

所以本期节目的听众们，大卫和我专程去了伯班克，在公司档案馆里待了几天。

So listeners for this episode, David and I went and spent a few days down in Burbank looking through the corporate archives.

档案管理员给我们调出了这份合同，我还拍了照片。

And one of the things that the archivist pulled for us was this contract, and I have a photo of it.

我现在正看着它。

I'm looking at it right now.

这是1923年10月签订的协议，甲方是加州好莱坞金斯韦尔大道4406号的沃尔特·迪士尼，等等等等。

Agreement entered into the October 1923 between Walt Disney of forty four zero six Kingswell Avenue, Hollywood, California, blah blah blah blah blah.

没错，你说得完全对。

And, yeah, you're exactly right.

十二份负片，主题系列，而且全部大写：爱丽丝喜剧。

For 12 negatives of subject series, and then in all caps, Alice Comedies.

太惊人了。

And Amazing.

这张照片我也有一张。

This we I also have a picture of this.

这份合同的最后一页，因为这实际上是让迪士尼正式启动的合同。

On the last page of this contract because this is effectively the contract that puts Disney in business.

也就是说，这成了华特·迪士尼公司。

I mean, this becomes the Walt Disney Company.

对。

Yeah.

就是这一刻。

This is the moment.

迪士尼的起点就在这里。

This is the beginning of Disney.

你可以看到他的签名，比刚才那个‘是的’要简洁多了。

You can see his signature, which is much less flowery than the Yeah.

就是迪士尼标志上看到的这个版本。

Version that you see in the the Disney logo.

他后来慢慢对它做了调整。

He would sort of evolve it over time.

但没错，就是这一刻。

But, yeah, this is the moment.

迪士尼，沃尔特正式开始做生意了。

Disney, Walt is in business.

这是他第一笔真正意义上的大生意。

It's his first actual commercial big time deal.

对。

Yes.

我觉得沃尔特从玛格丽特那里听到消息后，立刻冲进了他哥哥的房间。

And I think when Walt sort of gets word from Margaret, he runs into his brother's room.

当时他哥哥罗伊其实正患有肺结核。

His brother, Roy, actually has tuberculosis at this time.

就在医院的病房里。

It is in, like, a hospital ward.

他冲进去，把合同拿给哥哥看，说：我们成了。

And he sort of runs in, shows him the contract, says, we got it.

我们成了。

We got it.

我们成了。

We got it.

我们正式开干了。

We're in business.

这事就这么定了。

We're doing it.

那时候，一部片子能赚一千五百到一千八百美元，已经是笔巨款了。

And, you know, 15 to $1,800 a film is a lot of money at this time.

罗伊和他仔细商量后，说：好。

And Roy talks through with him and says, okay.

咱们赶紧开工吧。

Let's get right to work.

他真的站起来，直接离开了病房。

And he literally stands up and leaves the hospital ward.

心想，行吧。

It's like, alright.

我的结核病算是熬过去了。

My tuberculosis is behind me.

1923年10月，他们俩就在洛杉矶成立了迪士尼兄弟卡通工作室，这算是兄弟俩真正的合伙创业。

And the two of them found the Disney Brothers Cartoon Studio right there in October 1923 as a true partnership between the brothers.

罗伊负责商业和财务方面的事务。

Roy manages the business and the finance.

沃尔特则负责创意创作，两人就这样开始投入工作。

Walt manages the creative, and they get to work.

对。

Yep.

所以沃尔特当然写信给他在堪萨斯城的老同事，还有几个他认识的优秀动画师，说：兄弟们，这次我真搞定了。

So Walt, of course, writes of iWorks back in Kansas City and several of the other talented animators that they knew there and says, alright, guys.

这次我真成了。

I I got it this time.

来加州吧。

Come on out to California.

我们终于谈成了。

We finally got a deal.

我们要建一个真正的公司，一个真正的动画工作室。

We're gonna build a real company and a real animation studio.

他们真的去了。

And they do.

我们如今熟知的这个巨头，

The behemoth we

真是疯狂。

know crazy.

那时候的迪士尼还是迪士尼兄弟动画工作室，一群来自堪萨斯城的伙计们搬过来，跟着沃尔特一起干了起来。

As Disney today is the Disney Brothers cartoon studio and a whole bunch of Kansas City guys that moved out to join Walt to start crank it away.

对。

Yep.

《爱丽丝喜剧》在市场上取得了不错的成绩。

And the Alice Comedy's become a moderate success in the marketplace.

我觉得，动画加上真人演出的新鲜感，让观众看了好几年都觉得很有趣。

Again, I think the novelty of cartoons plus live animation, audiences are entertained for a few years.

从1923年到1927年，迪士尼兄弟工作室一共制作了57部《爱丽丝喜剧》。

Ultimately, the Disney Brothers Studio produces 57 of the Alice Comedies from 1923 to 1927.

到了1927年，温克勒新婚的丈夫查尔斯·明茨，这时候已经深入参与了业务，实际上接管了整个公司的运营。

And then in 1927, Winkler's relatively new husband, Charles Mintz, who actually got to start working for her in the business, by this point in time, he has taken over as sort of head of the business.

他和《菲利克斯猫》的创作者帕特·沙利文关系彻底破裂了。

He is no longer getting along with Pat Sullivan, the creator of Felix the Cat.

这可是个大机会。

Big opportunity.

这是个大机会。

Big opportunity.

他私下跟环球影业——这家纽约的大发行商——达成了一项协议，悄悄打造一个能跟菲利克斯竞争的新角色。

And and he has brokered a little arrangement with Universal Pictures, the big New York film distributor, to, on the sly, create a new character to rival Felix.

不过你要知道，他和温克勒还是菲利克斯的发行方，替沙利文做事，却在暗地里搞个新角色来跟对方打对台。

Now now mind you, he and Winkler are still the distributor for Felix, for Sullivan, and they're creating a new character to compete with him on the side.

这就像是一边买英伟达的芯片，一边自己偷偷研发芯片。

Sorta like they're building their own chips while still buying NVIDIA.

是的。

Yeah.

于是他转身找到了迪士尼。

And so he turns around and taps Disney.

对沃尔特说：嘿，沃尔特。

Says, hey, Walt.

你能给我们做个新系列、新角色吗？

Can you make us a new series and a new character?

就像菲利克斯，但又不是菲利克斯。

You know, like Felix, but but not Felix.

比如说，可能不是一只猫。

Like like, maybe not a cat.

对。

Right.

我们需要它看起来明显不一样，但又要保留让菲利克斯成功的那些元素。

We need it to be plausibly different while still having everything that made Felix successful.

没错。

Yes.

于是沃尔特和尤布就开始琢磨。

So Walt and Ub cast about.

咱们能想出个啥呢？

What can we come up with?

它像猫，但得有不少跟菲利克斯相似的标志性特征，比如一身白毛、一条尾巴、大耳朵，画起来在黑白画面里也方便。

It's like a cat, but maybe shares a lot of the same recognizable attributes, like, you know, a lot of white fur, a tail, some big ears, easy to draw in black and white.

他们最终没推出米老鼠，而是推出了幸运兔奥斯瓦尔德。

And they come up not with Mickey Mouse, but with Oswald, the lucky rabbit.

奥斯瓦尔德大受欢迎。

And Oswald is a big hit.

背后有环球影业的发行支持。

It's got the backing of Universal distribution behind it.

这对环球、温克勒和明茨来说是大成功，对迪士尼兄弟动画工作室也是巨大成功。

That's a big hit for Universal, big hit for Winkler and Mintz, and a big hit for the Disney Brothers cartoon studio.

这并不奇怪，因为如果你把创意任务交给沃尔特和尤布，让他们在已有的成功基础上注入自己的风格。

And it's not surprising because if you give the creative brief to Walt and Ub, take something that's kinda working, but apply your style.

他们的风格确实出色。

Their style was great.

他们是很有情感表达力的动画师。

I mean, they were emotional animators.

鲍勃·托马斯写的《沃尔特·迪士尼：美国原创》里有一句很贴切的话：在迪士尼之前，动画都是粗糙仓促的。

There's a great quote in the book, Walt Disney, an American original by Bob Thomas that says, before Disney, cartoons were slapdash.

是的

Yeah.

以前的卡通角色都是扁平的，动作怪异，背景也简单得离谱。

Two dimensional characters in bizarre movement before elemental backgrounds.

迪士尼坚持要设计圆润、更像人的角色形象。

Disney insisted on rounded, humanized figures.

他希望幽默感来自角色本身，而不是靠夸张的动作。

He wanted the humor to come out of the character, not the outrageous action.

所以说，就是这么个思路。

So it's sort of like, hey.

这是个模板，但你要把它改成迪士尼风格，或者改成苹果风格。

Here's the template, but Disneyfy it or iWorkify it

对。

Yeah.

要做出能真正打动人心的东西。

In a way that really can speak to people.

我觉得这其实是他们两人合作的结果。

Well, I think it really was the partnership of the two of them.

我觉得iWorks本身有着非凡的动画天赋，能做出那样的作品，而沃尔特则有眼光。

I think iWorks had, like, immense artistic talent as an animator and was able to do that, and Walt had taste.

他能认出好东西，也知道什么时候该用、在哪里用。

Like, he recognized it, and he knew when and where to apply it.

没错。

Yep.

凭借奥兹华的成功，迪士尼兄弟动画工作室迅速壮大，从一群来自堪萨斯城的散兵游勇，变成了真正像样的公司，甚至可以说已经接近一家大型动画工作室了。

So on the back of the Oswald success, the Disney Brothers cartoon studio grows pretty quickly from this ragtag group from Kansas City to, like, a real operation, like a real, you know, at this point, bordering on major animation studio.

他们雇了大约25名员工，开始批量制作奥兹华动画。

They hire about 25 employees and start churning out Oswald cartoons.

没错。

Yep.

他们搬进了洛杉矶银湖区海珀里昂大道上的一栋正式工作室大楼。

They move into a real studio building on Hyperion Avenue in the Silver Lake neighborhood of Los Angeles.

搬过去之后，华特和罗伊在某个兄弟的提议下决定，把公司和工作室的名字从迪士尼兄弟卡通工作室改名为华特迪士尼工作室。

And when they move there, Walt and Roy decide at a a unclear which brothers instigation that they need to rename the company and the studio from the Disney Brothers Cartoon Studio to The Walt Disney Studio.

关于这件事，有两个说法。

So there's two stories about this.

我正准备说，这两个我都听说过。

I was gonna say, I've seen both.

其中一个说法是，这其实是罗伊的主意。

One is that it was actually Roy's idea.

对。

Yes.

因为他觉得，嘿，

Because he's like, hey.

你知道的，我们得开始打造品牌，让大家知道是谁在制作这些奥瓦尔德动画，而且应该是华特·迪士尼工作室。

You know, we need to start building a brand, and, like, people need to know who is making these Oswalds, and it should be the Walt Disney studio.

而你显然是那个站在台前的人。

And you're very clearly the front man.

你知道的。

You know?

你在推广嘛。

You're selling.

你是那个有远见的人。

You're the visionary.

你是创意核心，这是一家靠创意吃饭的公司。

You're the sort of creative talent, and this is a creative company.

当然应该用你的名字。

Of course, it should be you.

对。

Yep.

另一个说法是，沃尔特从刚到好莱坞起，就一直梦想着自己的名字能出现在霓虹灯招牌上。

The other story is that Walt's always had a dream since he got to Hollywood of having his name up on a neon sign.

现在他们有了自己的正式工作室，他就想做个霓虹灯招牌，写上‘华特·迪士尼工作室’，我觉得这事儿还真办成了。

Now that they have their own real studio, he wants a neon sign constructed that says the Walt Disney Studio, which I think does happen.

对。

Yes.

我们会把照片放进邮件里。

We'll put the photo in the email.

海柏里昂大道工作室以前有个特别酷的招牌，很久以前被拆了，我觉得

The Hyperion Avenue Studio has this really cool sign or did for a long time before it got knocked down, and I think

现在那儿是个写字母的广告牌之类的。

it's a script mall or something today.

既然工作室已经成了正经机构，沃尔特就不再亲自做动画和摄影，转而主要负责整体管理，毕竟手下有二十五个艺术家、创意人员和摄影人员，总得有人统筹。

And in that vein, now that the studio has become a real operation, Walt moves from actually doing a lot of the animation and camera work mostly to overseeing the studio, which you have to with an operation of 25 artists and creative people and camera folks.

得有个人有全局的视野和品位，才能带起整个团队。

You need someone who has an overall vision and taste to drive everything.

是的。

Yep.

现在沃尔特正从一个实际动手的人，逐渐转变成

Now as Walt is transitioning from, you know, sort of doer to

真正的工作室负责人。

really studio head.

值得注意的是，当时华特迪士尼工作室——后来成为华特迪士尼制作公司，再后来演变为华特迪士尼公司的股权结构是：华特和他妻子占60%，罗伊和他妻子占40%。

And worth knowing the ownership of Walt Disney Studios that would become Walt Disney Productions, that would become the Walt Disney Company, was at this point 60% owned by Walt and his wife and 40% owned by Roy and his wife.

对。

Yep.

所以纽约那边的明茨，温克勒的丈夫，之前通过跟菲利克斯猫和帕特·沙利文的合作已经证明了自己的能力，他又看到了新的机会。

So Mintz, the husband of Winkler back in New York, who has sort of already proved his stripes by his dealings with Felix the cat and Pat Sullivan, he senses another opportunity.

他认为华特已经变得可有可无，真正关键的其实是那些动画师。

He thinks that Walt has become superfluous and that it's actually just the animators who really matter.

而且华特迪士尼工作室并不拥有幸运兔奥斯瓦尔德的版权。

And because the Walt Disney studio doesn't actually own the IP of Oswald the Lucky Rabbit.

版权在环球影业手里。

Universal does.

尽管华特迪士尼工作室当时还一直以为这算是……

Although the Walt Disney studio was was acting like this was sort

他们以为自己拥有这些创作的版权。

of their creation that they owned.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得沃尔特或者罗伊都没仔细看合同里的小字条款。

I don't think Walt, or Roy really read the fine print on the contracts here.

所以到了1928年初，沃尔特和他的妻子莉莲——莉莲当时也是工作室的早期员工。

So in early nineteen twenty eight, Walt and his wife, Lillian, who Lillian also was an early studio employee.

她在上色部门工作。

In the ink and paint department.

上色部门。

Ink and paint department.

没错。

That's right.

这个我们待会儿再说。

We'll get to that.

他们夫妇俩特意去了一趟纽约，此行的一个目的就是让沃尔特去见明茨，争取提高每部《奥斯瓦尔德》短片的制作费用。

They make a fateful trip as a couple to New York, where one of the items on the agenda is for Walt to go meet with Mintz and ask for a raise in the amount that the studio is getting paid per Oswald short.

沃尔特坐下来跟明茨谈，明茨却说：‘我不太确定要不要给你加钱。’

So Walt sits down with Mintz, and Mintz is like, well, I don't know about paying you more.

我觉得这个想法不太行。

I don't think I like that idea.

事实上，沃尔特，我都不太清楚你现在在这儿到底在忙些什么了。

In fact, I'm not even really sure, Walt, what you are doing around here any longer.

不过呢，我这个人还算好说话。

But I tell you what, I'm a nice guy.

我可以允许你和你的小团队继续参与制作《奥斯瓦尔德》，但不是加钱，而是要降薪。

I'm willing to let you and your little studio stay involved here and keep making the Oswalds, but we're gonna have to pay you less, not more.

每部动画片只给五百美元。

Like, $500 per cartoon

还要更少。

less.

据我了解，这基本上把利润空间给抹平了，他们就说，我们只付制作这些奥斯华卡通片的成本价。

Which my understanding is that basically wiped out the margin, and they were saying, we'll pay you cost to make these Oswald cartoons.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得明茨心里大概已经算好了，行吧。

I think Mint had basically calculated, okay.

如果沃尔特接受了这个条件，那我就让他的工作室继续制作。

If Walt takes this, then I'm willing to let his studio keep making it.

要是他不答应，那对我来说都一样。

And if he doesn't take it, then it's all equal to me.

我干脆直接挖走他的动画师，自己单干。

I'm just gonna steal his animators and go make it myself.

而且，关键的是，在这次会议发生之前

And, crucially, before this meeting even happens

他已经把那些动画师给挖走了。

He's already stolen the animators.

明茨手里还握着一张王牌。

Mintz has an ace in the hole.

他好像已经和几乎所有动画师签了合同，就差乌布·艾沃克斯了。

He has, I think, signed contracts with nearly all the animators except Ub Eyeworks.

对。

Yeah.

他暗中一个个联系了他们，把人都挖过去了。

He has sort of, through an act of subterfuge, gotten in touch with each of them individually and brought them over.

是的。

Yeah.

只有乌布，还有大概两三个动画师拒绝了明茨的秘密协议，继续忠于沃尔特和罗伊。

Only Ub and and I think maybe two or three other animators refused to sign these secret deals with Mintz and stayed loyal to to Walt and to Roy.

一旦沃尔特意识到这一点，他就无能为力了。

Once Walt realizes this, there's nothing he can do.

毕竟这是个自由的国家。

Like, it's a free country.

他没法强迫那些动画师留下。

He can't force his animators to stay.

他和他们之间没有雇佣合同。

He doesn't have employment contracts with them.

而且他连奥兹华这个IP的任何权利都没有，根本没什么筹码。

And he also doesn't have any control or rights to the actual Oswald IP, so he has no leverage.

他什么都没有了。

He's got nothing.

他没有客户的合同。

He's got no customer contract.

他没有雇员。

He's got no employees.

他没有知识产权。

He's got no intellectual properties.

一瞬间，整个华特·迪士尼工作室的价值就归零了。

Suddenly, the enterprise value so that the the entire value of Walt Disney Studios is effectively zero.

是的。

Yep.

这对沃尔特和罗伊来说是一堂极其苦涩的课，你可以肯定，他们一辈子都不会忘记。

It is a extremely bitter lesson for Walt and for Roy, and it is one that you can bet they never forget for the rest of their lives.

事实上，迪士尼历史上的一切，以及我们在这集后面看到的迪士尼所建立的所有企业价值，都源于这一刻。

And, really, like, everything in Disney's history and all of the enterprise value that Disney has built that we will see all across the rest of this episode traces back to this moment.

对这堂课的反应确实很艰难。

It's a hard reaction to this lesson.

没错。

Totally.

我有个有趣的冷知识想告诉你，本。

I have a fun bit of trivia for you, Ben.

哦。

Oh.

正如你可能知道的，迪士尼最终还是拿回了奥斯瓦尔德的版权。

So as I think you know, Disney eventually does get the rights to Oswald back.

这轮该我考考你了。

This is gonna be my trivia for you.

哦。

Oh.

行吧。

Alright.

你先问吧。

Actually, ask your question.

咱们的看法说不定不一样。

We might have different takes on it.

迪士尼最终在2006年拿回了奥斯瓦尔德的版权。

Disney eventually does get the rights to Oswald back in 2006.

当时的CEO鲍勃·伊格尔，刚上任就

Bob Iger, one

一手操办了这笔交易。

of his first acts as CEO, did the deal.

是的。

Yes.

你知道鲍勃是怎么帮迪士尼把奥斯瓦尔德要回来的吗？

Do you know how Bob got Oswald back for Disney?

我们来看看。

So let's see.

到那时候，迪士尼已经收购了ABC。

By this point, Disney had acquired ABC.

对。

Yep.

而ABC又收购了ESPN。

And Which had acquired ESPN.

那时候奥斯瓦尔德的版权在谁手里？

And who owned Oswald at this point?

当时是环球影业拥有，而环球又被NBC收购，现在NBC归康卡斯特所有。

It was Universal, which was owned by NBC, which is now owned by Comcast.

没错。

Correct.

所以，鲍勃用一个ABC的资产换回了奥斯瓦尔德。

So there's an ABC asset that Bob effectively trades in exchange for Oswald.

我觉得，ABC、ESPN和《周一晚间橄榄球》这个资产，其实就是阿尔·迈克尔斯。

And I think that ABC, ESPN, Monday night football asset is Al Michaels.

阿尔·迈克尔斯，那位《周一晚间橄榄球》的解说员，相当于被当作球员交易一样，换给了NBC，换来了奥斯瓦尔德这个角色的版权。

Al Michaels, the Monday night football commentator, like a sports team trade to NBC in exchange for the IP rights to Oswald the rabbit.

奥斯瓦尔德回来了，NBC得到了阿尔·迈克尔斯，一切都很圆满。

And Oswald is repatriated, and NBC gets Al Michaels and all is right in the world.

太神奇了。

Amazing.

我们再回到1928年。

So back to 1928.

沃尔特和罗伊这时候又得从头开始。

Walt and Roy are basically back at square one here.

他们实际上是一无所有。

They have not really just nothing.

情况比一无所有还糟，因为明茨这人，怎么说呢，用“滑头”这个词再合适不过了。

They actually have less than nothing because Mintz ever the, well, really just kinda weasel is the right word.

对。

Yeah.

他逼着沃尔特和迪士尼工作室把奥斯瓦尔德的合约履行完，当时还有几部动画没做完，还得付清那些背叛了他、正准备跳槽的动画师们的工资。

He makes Walt and Walt Disney Studios finish out the current Oswald contract, which still had a few cartoons left to animate on it, and pay all of the animators who had all betrayed him and were all about to defect.

明茨直接说不行。

Mintz is like, no.

不行。

No.

你们签了合同的。

You've got a contract.

你们得继续付钱给那些人，直到他们做完最后那几部短片。

You're gonna keep paying these folks while they finish up the last couple shorts on

这真是太残酷了。

this Just brutal.

合同而已。

Contract.

确实太狠了。

Just brutal.

这对沃尔特来说简直是奇耻大辱。

Absolutely humiliating for Walt.

据说，在从纽约漫长的回家火车途中，沃尔特突然灵光一现，就在火车上的素描本上画出了一个新卡通角色的草图。

And so then, as legend has it, on the long, long train ride back home from New York, Walt is struck by a bolt of inspiration, and he scribbles a sketch for a new cartoon character right there on his drawing pad on the train trip.

这个角色不仅能扭转奥兹华德系列带来的所有困境，逆转公司的命运，甚至可能成为人类历史上最广为人知的形象之一。

A character that wouldn't just reverse all the woes of the Oswalds and turn around the company's fortune, but would maybe become one of, if not the most recognized figure in all of human history.

但在讲述米老鼠的故事之前，现在正是感谢我们的赞助商J的好时机。

But before we tell the story of Mickey Mouse, now is a great time to thank our friends at J.

P。

P.

摩根。

Morgan.

对。

Yes.

我们的冠名合作伙伴。

Our presenting partner.

所以今天，我们要讲一个来自J.P.摩根合作伙伴的故事。

So today, we are sharing a story from one of J.

P。

P.

这家公司你可能听说过，Bill，就是以前的Bill.com。

Morgan's partners and a company that you may know, Bill, which is formerly bill.com.

没错。

Right.

Bill是为五十万家中小企业提供财务运营平台的公司，他们

Bill is the financial operations platform for half a million small and mid sized businesses, what they

他们把客户称为五百万强企业。

call the Fortune 5,000,000.

他们帮助中小企业管理和优化现金流，而Bill的Divvy卡正是这些公司员工日常运营中使用的支付工具。

They help manage and maximize cash flow for SMB companies, and Bill's Divvy Card product is what employees at those businesses use to fund their operations day to day.

这里有个场景，很多听众可能都经历过。

So here's a scenario that many listeners may have experienced.

你团队里的某个人意外刷爆了公司信用卡的额度。

Someone on your team maxes out the credit line on their corporate card with an unexpected purchase.

你得发一笔电汇来还清欠款，以便继续使用这张卡，但处理时间要两到三天。

You send a wire to pay off the card so you can continue using it, but it takes two to three days to clear.

在这期间，你的团队就无法进行任何交易了。

Meanwhile, your team can't transact.

是的。

Yeah.

Bill通过J的嵌入式支付解决方案，为它的五十万客户解决了这个问题。

Bill solved that for its half a million customers using an embedded payment solution from J.

P.

P.

Morgan.

Morgan.

通过基于API的子账簿系统，他们能够在一个银行账户下，实时处理数百万笔支付，无论使用哪个平台。

With API based subledgering, they can manage millions of payments in real time on any platform all with one bank account.

每个Bill客户都会获得一个独一无二的虚拟账户号码。

Every bill customer gets a unique virtual account number.

一旦收到付款，信用额度就会立即恢复。

So the moment a payment is received, the credit line is restored.

这样一来，大规模收款和分发付款变得简单多了。

The result is a way simpler way to receive and route payments at scale.

实际的数据非常惊人。

And the actual numbers are awesome.

付款入账时间从两到三天缩短到了几秒钟。

Payment posting went from two to three days to seconds.

查询量下降了83%。

Inquiries dropped 83%.

就连比尔自己的财务团队，每周也从手工对账中节省了二十个小时。

Even Bill's own treasury team reclaimed twenty hours a week from manual reconciliation.

几十年来，这些功能一直都是财富500强企业专属的，但比尔和J.

For decades, these were Fortune 500 only capabilities, but Bill and J.

P.

P.

摩根找到了方法，把同样的基础设施推广到财富500万家企业，同时还能优化比尔内部的运营。

Morgan figured out how to deliver that same infrastructure to the Fortune 5,000,000 while also improving Bill's internal operations.

你可以在j.p.morgan.com/acquired上阅读完整案例研究。

You can read the full case study as always at j.p.morgan.com/acquired.

还有件事。

And something else.

如果你想加入我们和J.

If you wanna join us and J.

Morgan

P.

我和J.P. Morgan的代表会亲自出席今年九月在圣何塞举办的We Are Developers世界大会。

Morgan in person, we'll be on stage at the We Are Developers World Congress in San Jose this September.

请点击节目笔记中的链接了解更多信息。

Click the link in the show notes to learn more.

好的。

Okay.

那么，大卫，这个奥斯瓦尔德的灾难是怎么跟米老鼠扯上关系的？

So, David, how does this Oswald catastrophe lead to Mickey Mouse?

好吧。

Alright.

这是沃尔特本人讲述的米老鼠的由来。

So here's the story of Mickey Mouse as Walt would tell it.

那是1928年3月。

It's March 1928.

他和莉莉安正坐长途火车从纽约返回洛杉矶。

He and Lillian are on the long train ride back home to LA from New York.

途中，他突然灵光一现，想到一个新动画点子：一只勇敢的小老鼠莫蒂默，想模仿他的偶像查尔斯·林德伯格驾驶飞机。

He's struck by the bolt of inspiration for a new cartoon scenario about a plucky mouse named Mortimer who is attempting to fly an airplane just like his hero, Charles Lindbergh.

这个点子后来就成了《飞机迷航》这部米奇动画。

And, this would go on to become the Mickey cartoon, plane crazy.

于是沃尔特把画的草图给莉莉安看，莉莉安说：我觉得不错，但莫蒂默？

So Walt shows his sketches that he's making to Lillian, and Lillian says, I like it, but Mortimer?

这名字太娘娘腔了。

That's too sissy a name.

不如叫米奇？

How about Mickey?

就这样，米老鼠诞生了。

And thus, Mickey Mouse is born.

不过更可能的实际情况是，沃尔特和莉莉安回到洛杉矶后，沃尔特急得直冒汗。

Now the real story is more likely that Walt and Lillian get back to LA, and Walt is, like, sweating.

于是他和罗伊、尤布，还有几个一直忠于他们的动画师躲起来，开始头脑风暴，想搞个新点子或者新角色，来取代奥斯瓦尔德，扭转工作室的困境。

So he and Roy and Ub and a couple other animators who stayed loyal to them hole up and they start brainstorming ideas for some kind of new idea or new character that they can create to replace Oswald and turn around the studio's fortunes.

而且你一看米奇，再看看奥斯瓦尔德，就能猜到米奇的灵感是从哪儿来的。

And also, when you see Mickey and you see Oswald, it's not hard to imagine where Mickey Mouse came from.

就是把耳朵缩短一点，改成圆形的。

It's, like, kinda like shorten the ears, make them circles.

你看他们俩都是白脸蛋，黑线条勾边，挺像的。

You know, they both kinda have this white face and the black outline.

说白了，其实和当初创造奥斯瓦尔德的思路一模一样。

I mean, it's really just the same brief that created Oswald.

就是这么个要求：嘿，

It was like, hey.

拿菲利克斯当模板，

Take Felix and Yeah.

照着菲利克斯做，只不过这次，拿奥斯瓦尔德当模板，照着奥斯瓦尔德做。

Do something like Felix, except this time it's take Oswald and do something like Oswald.

而且一定要确保我们拥有版权。

And make damn sure we own it.

没错。

Yes.

就是这样。

Exactly.

于是他们决定用一只老鼠作为角色原型。

So they land on the idea of a mouse.

沃尔特曾说，他一直对老鼠有种特别的感情，因为当年在堪萨斯城做动画时，总有一群老鼠跑到他的垃圾桶里。

And didn't Walt claim that he sort of, like, always had a fondness for mice because there were mice that would,

对，确实如此。

like Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

它们会跳进他的垃圾桶，当时他正在赶动画。

Jump in his trash can in Kansas City while he was animating and

当然。

Sure.

随便吧。

Whatever.

你知道，这都属于华特神话的一部分。

You know, it's all it's all just part of the Walt myth.

是的。

Yes.

而且根据尼尔·加伯的书，最有可能的是，尤布才是第一个画出米奇的人，而不是华特在火车上画的。

And at least according to the Neal Gabler book, most likely, Ub is the one who first draws Mickey, not Walt on the train.

但不管怎样，尤布绝对是整个米奇系列早期动画的主要绘制者，包括《汽船威利》。

But either way, Ub definitely was the primary animator of the first Mickey's for the whole first series of Mickey's, including Steamboat Willie.

所以到1928年夏天，我们完成了奥斯瓦尔德的合同，华特、尤布和那个小小的玛丽团队已经准备好了两部米奇短片，分别是《Plain Crazy》和《The Gallop and Gaucho》。

So by summer of nineteen twenty eight, we finished out the Oswald contract, and Walt and Ub and the small little Mary crew have gotten two Mickey shorts ready for production, Plain Crazy and The Gallop and Gaucho.

然后华特带着它们去见发行商。

And Walt takes them around to distributors.

你知道，那时候华特·迪士尼工作室已经很有名了。

You know, The Walt Disney studio is well known at this point.

这明明是个很有潜力的新IP，可各大发行商都没兴趣。

This seems like it would be promising new IP, and none of the major distributors are interested.

是啊，说真的。

They're like, yeah.

我也不太清楚。

I don't know.

这就是米奇。

This is Mickey.

跟奥斯瓦尔德差不多。

It's like Oswald.

不过。

But

但没有成千上万狂热粉丝的支持。

Without all the, you know, thousands or hundreds of thousands of raving fans for it.

没错，就是这样。

So Exactly.

就是这个意思。

Exactly.

接着，一个突破性的点子出现了。

And then comes the eureka breakthrough idea.

团队里有人想起来，去年秋天刚上映的那部划时代的爵士歌手电影，是第一部有对白和声音的有声片。

One of the gang recalls that the jazz singer, the famous first popular talkie, you know, movie with dialogue and sound that had just come out the previous fall.

他们去看那部电影的时候，片前还放了一部卡通短片。

When they went to see it, that there was a cartoon screened alongside it.

沃特一听这话，立刻把卡通和声音这两个想法联在了一起。

And Walt, when he hears this, puts the two ideas together in his mind of a cartoon and sound.

据说，他当时就说：对，就是这个。

And supposedly, he says, that's it.

就是这个。

That's it.

咱们就得这么干。

That's what we've gotta do.

别再拍那些无声电影了。

Stop all these silent pictures.

那时候确实有人做过带声音的动画，但没人做过像《爵士歌手》那样有同步音效的动画。

Now at this point, people had made cartoons with sound, but nobody had ever made a cartoon with sound like the jazz singer had sound.

同步音效。

Synchronized sound.

同步。

Synchronized.

对。

Yes.

没错。

Exactly.

动画里发生什么，电影院里就同步放出什么声音，分毫不差。

Where what was happening in real time in the cartoon was then played in sound, exactly synchronized in the movie theater.

对。

Yeah.

以前的概念是虽然有音乐在播放，但跟画面只是 loosely 关联。

The concept before was there's music that plays, but it's only loosely attached.

而这次是跟画面帧和音乐节拍严格同步的。

And this is to the frame and to the beat of the music.

比如，如果你看到米奇在屏幕上撞到了什么东西，那你可能就会在同一个重拍上听到一个木琴音符正好响起来。

Like, if you see Mickey on screen bop into something, then you might hear a xylophone on the exact same downbeat play a note.

对。

Yeah.

不只是说，比如你看的这部卡通片里配了一些音乐。

It's not just that, like, there's some music accompanying this cartoon that you're watching.

而是卡通里发生的一切，让人感觉像是

It's that what is happening in the cartoon feels like it is producing the

在发出声音。

sound.

对。

Yes.

这里面有个很棒的商业案例。前两版《米奇》之所以失败，就是因为如果你只是照搬已有竞争对手的做法，而对方已经掌握了发行渠道、品牌知名度和客户群体，那根本不够。

There's a great business model lesson in this, which is with the first two Mickey's flopping, if you just do the same thing as an existing competitor who already has distribution, brand, customers, it's not enough.

你必须借助新技术或新平台来做点不一样的事情。

You need to go do something leveraging a new piece of technology or a new platform.

你得换个角度切入，才能实现弯道超车，吸引大家的注意。

You gotta come at it from an orthogonal way in order to leapfrog and make people pay attention to you.

不然的话，你就只是个更差、更不起眼的跟班。

Otherwise, you're just, like, smaller, worse, also ran.

完全正确。

Totally.

而且那可能指任何事物。

And and that could be anything.

我的意思是，奥斯瓦尔德之所以能成功，尽管它是模仿菲利克斯的，是因为它自带了全球发行渠道。

I mean, the only reason that the Oswalds worked, even though they were a rip off of Felix, was because they came built in with the universal distribution.

但话说回来，华特在没加声音之前就推出米奇，那时候他根本没什么拿得出手的东西。

But, yeah, Walt taking out the Mickey's before bringing sound, like, he's got nothing to bring to the table here.

没错。

Yep.

于是华特通过一个叫帕特·鲍尔斯的人，搞到了Cinephone声音录制系统的使用权。这个人其实几十年前就参与过环球影业的创建，后来转行成了音响技术领域的创业者，专门研发这种新兴电影技术的声音系统。

So Walt lines up access to the cinephone sound recording system from a character named Pat Powers, who had actually helped create Universal, you know, some number of decades earlier, and then had gone on to become a sound accolade and entrepreneur developing a sound system for this new movie technology.

华特和尤布还有团队就画了一段米奇配声音的测试片段，放给所有妻子和女友们看。

And so Walt and Ub and crew animate a test sequence of a Mickey with sound, and they screen it for all their wives and girlfriends.

后来尤布回忆说，当他们第一次播放出同步声音的米奇时，现场发生了什么。

And Ub writes later of what happened next when they screamed the synchronized sound Mickey for the first time.

我这辈子从没见过观众有这样的反应。

I never saw such a reaction in an audience in my life.

这个方案完全成功了。

The scheme worked perfectly.

声音本身让人感觉仿佛有什么东西真的从屏幕里传出来一样。

The sound itself gave the illusion of something emanating directly from the screen.

沃尔特一直哭着说，就是它了。

Walt kept crying, this is it.

就是它了。

This is it.

我们成功了。

We've got it.

结果证明，声音技术是让动画突破玩具性质的关键，它让屏幕上的角色真正拥有了能让观众产生共鸣的个性。

It turned out that sound was the critical enabling technology for animation to go beyond a novelty and allow the characters that are on screen to actually have personality that audiences connect with.

真有意思。

So interesting.

一开始并不明显。

And it's not obvious at first.

直到你真正做到了才明白。

Until you do.

回头看就显而易见了，但你完全能理解，当沃尔特有了这个想法并投入资源的时候。

It's obvious in retrospect, but you can totally see how when Walt had this insight and then they made the investment.

因为那时候要做个测试动画，还得把声音对上，哪怕只是放个简短的样片，都特别难，根本没什么工具可用。

Because doing a test animation and synchronizing the sound, like, even to show a little screener must have been really hard at the time because none of the tools existed.

他们得自己摸索出怎么把画面和音乐、系统同步起来。

They sort of had to invent the way to synchronize the drawings with the music and the systems.

就算只是想试试看能不能让角色有个性，这也算是个很大的冒险。

It's sort of a big bet even to try and see if that creates personality.

没错。

Right.

对。

Right.

声音对真人电影也起了同样的作用，但人类说话本身并不算太大的突破。

And sound did the same thing for live action movies, but it's not that big a leap to have humans talking.

人本来就会说话啊。

Like, humans talk.

声音只是让这一切变得好太多了。

You know, sound just made it way better.

动画里的声音是一次巨大的飞跃。

Sound for cartoons was this giant leap.

这些角色、这种艺术形式，现在真正成了有个性的角色。

These characters, this art can now be actual characters with personalities Yep.

以前是做不到的。

In a way that they couldn't before.

当时没人看得出来，现在回头看却再明显不过。

Non obvious at the time, completely obvious in retrospect.

对。

Yep.

他们制作了《威利号汽船》，这是第三个米奇动画，但却是第一个配上同步音效的。

So they make steamboat Willie as the third Mickey, but the first with synchronized sound.

关于制作这部作品过程中那些头疼的麻烦事，我们就不细说了，但当时沃尔特不停地往返纽约，押上了全部身家，不断试验新方法，就想把管弦乐和画面完美对上。

Which we're gonna skip over the whole headache nightmare of creating this thing, but it was like Walt constantly going back and forth to New York, betting every last dollar that he had, inventing all these new processes, trying different ways to get an orchestra synced to the sound.

是啊。

Oh, yeah.

他们就在屏幕上画了一个小球，跟着乐队演奏的节奏同步移动。

They, like, animated a little ball on the screen that would sync to the orchestra as they were playing.

对。

Yes.

他没法让乐队原来的指挥采用他的方法。

And he couldn't get the original conductor of the orchestra to actually use his method.

那位指挥说：你放心吧。

The orchestra guy was like, trust me.

结果画面和声音完全对不上。

And then it was all out of sync with the screen.

说到底，制作这部作品是一场巨大而痛苦的折腾，但效果真的太震撼了。

The the net of it is it's a giant, painful, operational struggle to get this thing out, but my god, does it hit.

对。

Yes.

嗯，

Well,

你知道，这正是纽约发行商的作风。

you know, this is the nature of the New York distributors.

他们把片子做出来。

They get it made.

沃尔特拿去四处找纽约的大佬们推广，可他们都太保守了。

Walt takes it and shops it around to all the big folks in New York, and they're so conservative.

他们说：这确实挺酷，但我不确定观众会怎么反应。

They're like, well, this is cool, but, I don't know how audiences are gonna react to this.

我们还是想先看看。

We kinda wanna see a

先试一下。

test first.

我不想当第一个吃螃蟹的人。

I don't wanna be first in line.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

就跟风险投资家一模一样。

Exactly like VCs.

于是沃尔特决定亲自出马，直接去找纽约殖民地剧院的经理，花了整整一千美元，谈妥了在放映正片前插播《威利号汽船》的档期。

Like so Walt decides that he's gonna take matters into his own hands, and he goes directly to the manager of the Colony Theater in New York City and cuts a deal for a thousand dollars to run Steamboat Willie before the features that they're showing in the Colony Theater.

绕开发行商，就为了先在一家影院做个试映。

So going around distributors just to get this in one theater as a test.

对。

Yep.

于是《威利号汽船》于1928年11月18日在纽约首映，作为电影《帮派战争》的前导短片。

And so Steamboat Willie premieres in New York City on 11/18/1928 before the film gang war.

没人记得《帮派战争》了，因为《威利号汽船》彻底改变了这一切。

Nobody really remembers gang war because Steamboat Willie is a revolution.

影评人全都拍手叫好。

Critics love it.

观众也特别喜欢。

Audiences love it.

对。

Yeah.

不是有个著名的故事说，观众站起来大喊，要再放一遍《汽船威利》，别放正片了？

Isn't there some famous story of people sort of standing up and screaming, we want Steamboat Willie again instead of playing the the main feature?

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

就是这样。

Exactly.

完全对。

Exactly.

但话说回来，迪士尼现在得去找发行方了，而且他手里已经有了实证。

But still, you know, Disney now needs to find a distributor, and now he's got the proof point.