Replit首席执行官谈氛围编码、财富积累以及人们对人工智能的普遍误解

于是就有了这种媒体。

And so there was this media.

即使在当时，也觉得 okay。

Even at the time, it was like, okay.

你可以在线赚钱。

You can make money online.

我当时常去网吧，因为家里没有网络。

And I was into the Internet cafe because we don't have Internet at home.

所以我会攒下我们所有的零钱，找地方躺平，只为能付得起一小时的网费。

So I would like, you know, scrap whatever money we had of finding couches or whatever to to go pay for like an hour of Internet.

我会坐在那里，浏览各种网站，看别人在做什么，玩不同的游戏，思考我能如何打造一个能赚钱的东西。

And I would sit there and like look at different websites, look at what people are doing, different games, different ways I could, like, build something that could, like, make money.

而主要的灵感其实就摆在我眼前——那就是网吧本身。

And then the the main idea was sitting right under my nose, which is the Internet cafe itself.

我想，网吧赚了很多钱，但它们却没有用软件来管理业务。

I was like, well, Internet cafes make a lot of money, but they don't use software to manage their business.

他们的生意就是你进去，付一两美元，就能用一小时电脑。

Like, their business is you go in there, you pay, you know, a buck or 2, you get an hour on the computer.

当你坐在电脑前时，他们得盯着你。

And when you're sitting on the computer, they have to keep track of you.

每过一小时，他们就看看钟，然后说：好了。

They're like, every hour, they look at the the clock, and they're like, okay.

你的时长到了。

Your time is up.

他们拍拍你的肩膀。

They tap you on the shoulder.

而且当你在用电脑时，可能会不小心安装病毒。

Also, when you're on the computer, you can, like, install a virus.

你可能会删除文件。

You can, like, delete files.

什么都可能发生。

It could do whatever.

所以我就想，好吧。

So I was like, okay.

如果我开发一个能保护系统的东西，比如设置用户名和密码，让网吧减少员工需求，因为一旦时间到了，系统就会自动把你踢出去，那该多好。

What if I built something that secures the system, makes it so that there's, like, usernames and passwords, makes it that so that Internet cafes need less employees because once you run out of time, it'll just, like, boot you out.

于是我开发了一个网吧管理系统。

So I built this Internet cafe management system.

因为我了解这个领域，我总是回到这个想法：做企业、做产品，就要从你熟悉的事情出发，要么是你关注的趋势，要么是你身边的问题。

And because I I knew it, and this is the the I keep coming back to this idea of the way to build businesses, to build things you know about, either trends you're plugged in or problems around you in the world.

我当时十二三岁，花了一两年时间，努力开发这款针对网吧的软件。

So I was 12 or 13, and and I I I spent, like, you know, a year or two trying to build this software for cafes.

然后我去推销它，赚了不少钱。

And then went out and and sold it and made quite a bit of money from it.

那时候麦当劳刚在约旦开业，我带全班同学去了麦当劳。

At the time, McDonald's was just opening in in Jordan, and I took my entire class to McDonald's.

当时没人吃过麦当劳。

And no one had McDonald's at this time.

所以怎么

So How

你从它们那里赚了多少钱？

much money did you make from them?

我赚了大概

I made, like,

大约500美元

like, $500

好吧。

Okay.

这对我来说太棒了。

Which was amazing for me.

你知道吗？

You know?

约旦的工资远远赶不上美国，所以你知道，是的，我感觉自己很富有，赚钱的感觉很好，而从自己热爱的事情中赚钱感觉更好。

Salaries in Jordan are are not nowhere near The US, and so it's like, you know so, yeah, I I felt rich, and it felt good to make money, and it felt even better to make money from something that I love doing.

后来，随着我找到了更多通过电脑和编程赚钱的方式，我买了一台Xbox。

And later on, you know, as I found more ways to make money with computers and programming, I bought an Xbox.

我非常开心，因为我作为一个青少年，能够买到朋友们的父母为他们买的东西，而我自己也能买。

I I I was so happy because I'm able to buy things that, you know, my friend's parents buy for them, but I'm able to buy myself even as a teenager.

所以，自己赚钱让人感到很有力量。

So it felt empowering to make your own money.

但与此同时，其中很多痛苦的部分就在于那些工具。

But as as part of that, like, a lot of the painful part was just like the tools.

比如，我是个很有天赋的程序员，但我总是和那些工具作斗争。

Like, I would like, I was a talented programmer, and I said the tool I was fighting with the tools all the time.

你脑子里有个想法。

And you you just you have an idea.

你有正确的市场。

You have the right market.

你有合适的产品创意和构建它的技能，但你仍然要面对很多问题。

You have the right product idea and and skills to build that, but you're still dealing with a lot

工具带来的各种问题。

of the problems with the tools.

所以我一直有动力去开发更好的编程和开发工具，以便让我更容易地构建更多创业项目、公司和产品，也为其他人提供便利。

So I I was always motivated to make better programming and coding tools in order to in order for me to build easier, more startups, more companies, more products, and for other people as well.

我认为互联网本可以成为伟大的财富平等化者和创造者。

And I thought that the Internet could be this great wealth equalizer and generator.

你知道，硅谷没有理由垄断互联网上的大部分财富，因为互联网是世界上分布最广、最去中心化、最易获取的技术。

Like, you know, there's no reason that Silicon Valley capture most of the wealth on the Internet because it is the most distributed, decentralized, accessible technology in the world.

我认为部分原因在于工具太难用了。

I think part of the reason is because the tools are hard.

也许工具之所以比应有的更难用，是有人故意为之。

And maybe there's, like, a intentional part that the tools are harder than they should be.

因此，Replit 的核心使命就是：如何让编程工具变得如此简单，以至于你甚至不需要是程序员也能使用？

And so, like, the guiding mission for Replit became how do you make coding tools so easy that you don't even need to be a coder to use them?

这样的世界会带来怎样的财富获取和创造的可及性？

And at what kind of world does that create in terms of accessibility to wealth generation, wealth creation?

我想重点谈谈这一点。

I wanna hone in on that point.

你们开价多少想收购你们公司？

How much were you offered to sell your company for?

在某个时候，我们还很小，只有大约六个人，有人出价十亿美元收购。

At some point, I was offered when we're very small, not a lot of people, I think six people were offered a billion dollars.

那你为什么拒绝了？

And why'd you say no?

因为我相信我能打造一家万亿美金的公司。

Because I think I can build a trillion dollar company.

你觉得硅谷那边，或者出价十亿美元的人，是不是打算收购后就把你们干掉？

Do you think Silicon Valley or whoever was offering do you think the people offering to pay a billion dollars for your company were just gonna kill it?

是的。

Yeah.

他们是个竞争对手。

It was a competitor.

任何收购要约中都隐含着一种威胁。

And implicit in any acquisition offer is a threat.

如果你不卖，我们就会开发一个与你竞争的产品。

If you don't sell, we're gonna build something to compete with you.

因为他们对产品感兴趣，对市场感兴趣。

Because they're interested in the product, they're interested in the market.

你必须自己想清楚：如果我不卖，他们是会去收购另一家公司，还是会自己开发，然后来和我竞争？

You have to make it better on yourself that if I'm not gonna sell, they're gonna go buy some other company or they're gonna go build it themselves and they're gonna compete with me?

我是否首先拥有这样的自信：我能对抗这些巨头、对抗行业巨头并取得胜利？

And do I first have the self belief that I can go against the juggernauts, go against the big incumbents and win?

最终，对我来说，这取决于我更遗憾哪一种选择。

Ultimately, for me it came down to what I would regret more.

我是更遗憾没有卖掉，还是更遗憾没有实现我和公司应有的潜力？

Would I regret not selling or would I regret more not not achieving my and the company's potential?

我觉得后者会是更大的遗憾。

And I felt that would have been a bigger regret.

是的。

Yes.

我会变得富有，但也会成为又一个富有的混蛋。

I I I would be rich, but I would be yet another rich asshole.

这样的人太多了。

There's a lot of them.

但创造一些有意义的东西，不仅为自己的生活带来意义，也为他人的人生带来意义——无论是我们打造的团队、服务的客户、培育的创业者、传递的世界观、倡导的使命，还是由此产生的影响力。

But building something meaningful that creates meaning not just in your life, but in other people's lives, whether it's like the team we built, the customers we serve, the entrepreneurs that we're creating, the the worldview we're putting out, the mission we're putting out, the influence that comes from that.

我认为，如果不尝试，那才是真正的损失。

I thought it would be a loss not to try.

你认为大型科技公司整体上是否对你的使命感到威胁？

Do you think big tech in general is threatened by your mission?

是的。

Yes.

你知道那句俗话怎么说吗？

You know, what's the saying?

首先，他们会嘲笑你，然后试图打压你，最后要么加入你，或者类似的情况。

First, like, they, you know, they laugh at you, then they try to fight you, then they join you or something like that.

他们就是这么说的。

They're saying it like that.

我们现在正处于他们开始加入我们的阶段。

We're at the like, they're joining us right now.

一开始，他们觉得Replit不过是个玩具。

Like, they initially, it was like, oh, Replit is this toy.

你知道的，孩子们在用它。

You know, kids use it.

是的。

Yeah.

有很多孩子在使用它。

We have a lot of kids using it.

我们为此感到自豪。

We're proud of it.

简单到孩子们都在用。

So easy that kids use it.

是的。

Yeah.

那这为什么是件坏事呢？

And it's like, why is that a negative thing?

这很可能是个好迹象。

It's probably a good sign.

这是个好迹象。

It's a good sign.

对。

Yeah.

当他们感到受到威胁时，就会试图收购我们，或者在边缘领域与我们竞争，或者在媒体和公关上做文章，但真正的产品层面他们并不认真对待，因为他们仍然不相信编程或软件开发可以是任何人都能做的事。

And and then and then and then when they felt threatened by it, they would, like, try to buy it or or, like, try to compete on the margins or try to, like, you know, compete in the press or PR but not really on the on the product because they still don't believe in it, but they wanna counter the narrative that actually programming can be coding or making software can be something anyone could do.

而当我们成长到极致——收入增长了上百倍——他们才终于注意到了。

And finally, when we've we've we've grown so much, like our revenue, like a 100 x, then they paid attention.

他们就说，好吧。

And they're like, okay.

这真是个实实在在的东西，人们想要它。

This is a real thing, and people want it.

现在他们正在开发真正的竞品。

And now they're building actual competing products.

你是否认为你所做的是软件开发的民主化？

Do you see what you're doing as the democratization of building software?

你觉得我们在科技领域会看到类似社交媒体或媒体整体发生的情况吗？即进入门槛如此之低，以至于——嗯，这其实有两种情况。

Do you think we'll see something similar with tech that we saw with social media or with media in general, where the barrier to entry was so low that instead of, I mean, there's two versions of this.

一种是像CNN、福克斯、ABC这样的大型媒体，转向网红；另一种是网红转向微网红，有大量人靠社交媒体每月赚一万美元。

There's the big media like CNN, Fox, ABC, to influencers, and then there's influencers to micro influencers, and there's tons of people making 10 k a month on social media.

你觉得科技领域也会朝这个方向发展吗？比如，像我父母在肯塔基州这样的人也能开发一个应用，每月赚个几千美元，然后

Do you think that's where we're moving in tech where, I don't know, someone like my parents in Kentucky can build an app, make a nice couple thousand dollars a month, and

那就是他们的全职工作了。

then that's just their job.

是的

Yeah.

我认为这是自古以来就一直在技术领域发生的事情。

I I think that's like an age old thing that's been happening with technology since the dawn of time.

想想识字能力吧，对吧？

So So think about literacy, right?

在中世纪的欧洲，阅读和写作是被管控的，只有神职人员才能掌握，他们借此控制民众，直到宗教改革之前。

Like during medieval Europe, like reading and writing was regulated, it was only like priests were able to do it, and priests were like controlling the population, right, before the Protestant Reformation.

因此，神职人员掌控着识字和书写的能力。

And so there's, like, the priesthood control over the ability to read and and write.

然后我们有了古腾堡印刷机，它使印刷书籍并向大众普及成为去中心化的过程。

And then we had the Gutenberg printing press, and that was decentralized, the ability to print books and have books available to the population.

人们开始学习阅读，然后学习写作。

People started learning how to read and then learning how to write.

这引发了世界范围的巨大变革。

And that caused massive changes in the world.

而阅读正是推动革命、不同宗教和民主制度兴起的关键因素。

And, like, leading up to revolutions and different religions and democracies and all of that happening because of reading.

如果没有大众识字，我们今天所拥有的这个世界根本不会存在。

Like, none of the world that we would that that's that we have today would not have happened without mass literacy.

对吧？

Right?

虽然现在有大型媒体公司，但你可以开设一个Substack，有人靠Substack赚了数百万美元。

We have the big media companies, but you're you can have a Substack, and there are people making millions of dollars on Substack.

有人靠Substack月入一万美元。

There are making 10 k on Substack.

也有不少人靠Substack月入两千美元。

There are people making 2 k on Substack.

所以，Instagram也是同样的道理。

And so, you know, Instagram is the same thing.

过去你必须是专业摄影师才能赚钱，只有专业摄影师才有这个机会。

You had to be a professional photographer at some point, and only the professional photographers could make some money.

后来，任何人都可以拍照并赚钱。

And then later on, anyone could, like, take photos and make money.

网红也是同样的道理。

Influencers is the same thing.

实际上，任何技能和职业都会经历这样的过程，通常是由精英少数群体掌控，他们设限，不希望别人参与。

Really, like, skill and every profession goes through this, whereas usually an elite minority and they're gatekeeping and they don't want other people to do it.

当然，大型科技公司的程序员们对Replit感到威胁，因为Replit让他们赚了很多钱。

And certainly programmers in Big Tech felt threatened by by Replit is because they they make a lot of money.

在过去十五到二十年里，我们生活在一个非常奇特的世界里：如果你去上四年计算机科学专业，就能 guaranteed 拥有最好的生活、最高的收入阶层。

Like, we were in this, like, really strange world over the past, you know, fifteen, twenty years where if you go to computer science school for four years, you're guaranteed, like, the best life and the bet and, you know, the upper echelon of income.

如果你能进入谷歌工作，那就一辈子无忧了。

And and if you get a job at Google, you're set for life.

在四五年内，你就能赚上几百万美元。

And, you know, in four or five years, you're pulling a couple million dollars.

当这项技能被普及化，任何人都能掌握时，这当然令人感到威胁。

And and it's certainly threatening when, like, that skill can can be democratized and anyone can can can do it.

任何人都可以构建它。

Anyone can build it.

这对风投和硅谷的运作方式也构成了威胁，因为硅谷需要建立所有这些基础设施，筹集大量资本，才能资助每一家公司——因为公司需要大量资金来开发软件、进行市场推广等等。

It's also threatening to to VCs and the and the way Silicon Valley works because Silicon Valley needed to build all this infrastructure in order to and raise all this capital in order to, like, fund every you know, companies need a lot of capital to build the software and market it and all of that.

但有了社交媒体和像Replit这样的工具，你就不再需要那么多资本了。

But with social media, with tools like Replit, you don't need as much capital.

对。

Right.

因此，我认为历史上每一项技术都具有这种去中心化和民主化的影响。

And so I think every piece of technology in history has had this decentralizing and democratizing effect.

每次都会有一些受益于门槛控制的人群进行抵制，但最终堤坝会溃决，我们进入一个根本性全新的世界，通常是一个好得多的世界。

And every time there's like a pushback from some group of people that are benefiting from the gatekeeping, but then that that that the dam breaks and and we live in a fundamentally new world, typically a much better world.

我认为媒体的民主化确实带来了巨大好处。

And I think it's true of media like the democratization of media has been has been really good.

我觉得我获取新闻更多是通过社交媒体，而不是其他渠道，这当然有它的挑战，但总比接受宣传要好得多。

I think that I you know I get I get my news more from social media than I do and it has its challenges obviously but it's much better than getting propaganda.

这非常正确。

That's very true.

这个关于古腾堡印刷机与宗教如何随时间演变的对比太有趣了，我的意思是，说我提到的只是三大宗教确实有点片面，但它们确实曾经占据主导地位，分支也没有现在这么多。

That's super interesting comparison about the Gutenberg press with how religions evolved over time because, I mean, it really was I mean, it'd be ignorant of me to say it was the big three, but I would say they were much more dominant and there wasn't so many branches of Mhmm.

我正试着回忆具体时间，但这个类比非常贴切。

I'm trying to think of the dating, but it's a very apt comparison.

阿贾德，你认为大家对人工智能和就业有什么误解？

Amjad, what do you think everyone is getting wrong about AI and jobs?

人工智能被视为一种替代品，而不是一种工具，它实际上可以被最有创造力、最有抱负的人用来彻底改变自己的生活、社区或公司。

AI is seen as a a replacement as opposed to a tool that can be wielded by the most creative, by the most ambitious people who wanna make a fundamental change in their lives, in their communities, in their companies.

当然，人工智能可以自动化大量工作。

Obviously, AI can automate a lot of work.

但要实现这种自动化，必须有人去构建这个系统。

But to automate that work, someone needs to build that system.

必须有人足够敏锐，能够观察自己公司、学校，或他们所处的任何社区。

Someone needs to be observant enough to to look around their company or look around their school, whatever community they they exist in.

所以我们做了很多无意义的事。

So we're doing a lot of BS things.

有很多无聊的工作。

There's a lot of bullshit work.

其实有一本书叫《废话工作》，作者是大卫·格雷伯。

There's actually a book called Bullshit Work, and it's like by by David Graeber.

它谈到，几乎整个经济体系都是废话工作。

And it talks about how, like, most of the economy is kind of bullshit work.

我的意思是，如果你仔细想想，工业革命之后，我们创造了一个机器已经做了很多事但还不够的世界，人类不得不介入并像机器一样工作。

I mean, if if you think about it, you know, post industrial revolution, we we created a world where machines were doing a lot but not enough, and humans had to step in and act like machines.

所以，如果你看看任何办公室工作，大部分时间他们都在做那些很容易被自动化的事情。

And so if you look at any office job, most of the time, they're doing things that are easily automatable.

他们把数据录入到Excel表格中。

They're putting data entry in Excel sheets.

他们一遍又一遍地重复同样的流程，而且他们也知道这些是可以自动化的。

They're repeating the same process time and time again, and they know it's automatable.

或者他们只是发送同样的邮件，或者做同样的营销工作。

Or they're sending the same sort of email, or they're doing the same kind of marketing.

你可能会说，好吧。

And you could say, okay.

我们可以用一个AI系统来取代这个人。

You know, we can get an AI system to, like, replace that person.

但需要做的工作会更多，而不是更少。

But there's gonna be more work to be done, not less.

因为你会获得更多的收入、更多的用户，随之而来的是不同的挑战和不同的运营需求。

Because, you know, you get more revenue, get more users, you're gonna have different challenges, different operational thing you you should do.

所以这就像一个hamster轮，但现在我们可以转得快得多。

So it's a hamster wheel, but we can go much faster now.

看待AI和工作的角度应该是：我如何提升我的团队，让他们成为能运用AI为顾客创造价值、提升公司利润的通才型商业人才？

And the way to look at AI is and jobs is how can I upgrade my workforce for them to become generalist business people that can wield AI for the benefit of our customers and our on our bottom line?

我们在许多企业客户身上都看到了这一点：最有抱负的员工正在为公司创造数十亿美元的价值。

And we see it in a lot of our enterprise customers where the most ambitious people are creating billions of dollars of value of the company.

所以，每个公司，尤其是每家科技公司，都有那些最贴近客户的员工，他们觉得自己有能为公司带来更多收入的想法，但这些想法常常被工程团队阻拦。

So there's every every company out there, every tech company for sure, there are people that are closest to the customer that feel that they have ideas that could make more revenue for the business, but they're often blocked by engineering.

工程团队觉得这些想法不值得做，或者他们有自己的路线图。

Engineering don't think the ideas is worth it or they have their own road map.

他们根本不在乎这些想法。

They don't care about it.

现在，很多人开始使用Replit来实现这些想法。

And now a lot of them are bringing in Replit to work.

他们自己开发这些想法，并为公司创造收入。

They're building that idea, and they're making the money for their company.

然后他们得到晋升，并获得更多的权力。

And then they're getting promoted, and then they're giving more power.

很多人还会出去招聘更多像他们这样的人。

And a lot of them go out and hire more people like them.

我要组建一支‘氛围程序员’团队，让他们走遍公司，发现所有低效环节并加以解决。

I'm gonna build a team of Vibe Coder's that are gonna go around the company and find all the inefficiencies and go solve them.

所以我们有了一个新角色，像是全能自动化专家，他们的级别低于工程师。

So we have a new role of this, like, generalist automator, and they're less than the engineer.

工程师非常专注于系统和工程方面。

The engineer is, like, really focused on systems and engineering.

他们不太关注销售和营销这样的特定领域。

They're not as focused on one particular domain like sales and marketing.

他们能将整个业务的上下文记在脑子里，并找到提高效率或增加收入的方法。

They can hold the context of the entire business in their head, and they can find ways to increase efficiency or or add revenue to the

业务。

business.

目前人们最应该做的明显AI自动化是什么？

What's the most obvious AI automation that people should be doing today?

在公司环境中，我们看到大量数据的复制粘贴操作。

In the context of companies, we see a lot of just like copy pasting of data.

比如，你有Salesforce里的数据，想把它导入到某个Excel表格，或者导入到某个数据湖之类的地方。

Like, you have data in Salesforce and you wanna get it into an Excel sheet somewhere or you wanna get it into some data lake or something like that.

我们还看到很多数据录入工作，只是因为不会写代码而不断复制粘贴。

And we see a lot of data entry work that is like just copy pasting because they don't know how to write code.

工程师都很忙。

Engineers are busy.

IT部门也很忙。

IT is busy.

所以，只要你发现自己经常在不同地方之间复制粘贴东西，这显然就是一个可以自动化的任务。

So just like anytime you find yourself copy pasting things from one place to another and you do it regularly, like it's an obvious automation.

去Replit上直接说：从Salesforce提取数据并放到Snowflake里。

Go to Replit and just say go pull the data from Salesforce and put it in Snowflake.

对吧？

Right?

这是在公司环境中的情况。

So that's in the context of companies.

我觉得有很多数据移动都是手动完成的，这真让我震惊。

I think there's a lot of data movement that happens manually, and that really blows my mind.

即使在数据处理过程中有一些转换操作，你也可以让AI来完成这些任务。

And even if there's like some process in between that you're doing some transformation in the data that you're doing, you can also have the AI do that.

比如，每个公司都会有一个被称为交易支持人员的角色。

So for example, like, every every company has this person that's called the, like, the deal desk person.

尤其是B2B公司，几乎都有这样的人。

Every you know, b to b company, especially.

交易支持人员负责生成报价单，提供给销售人员作为订单表格。

And the deal desk person is responsible for generating quotes to give, like, order forms to give salespeople.

销售人员会将交易内容输入到Salesforce中。

So the salespeople put in the deal content in Salesforce.

交易支持人员从Salesforce中提取数据，将其转换为PDF，然后发布到Slack或其他聊天群组中。

The deal desk person pulls it from Salesforce, puts it in a PDF, and then, like, post it to, like, Slack or some other chat group.

他们会在群里讨论这些内容。

They talk about it.

然后把文件发送给客户。

They send it to the client.

客户会给他们反馈。

The client gives them feedback.

他们就会去处理。

They go.

然后重新生成那份文件。

They regenerate that.

很多公司最终雇佣了大量人员专门做这件事。

And a lot of companies end up hiring a lot of people doing just that.

你知道，还有一些非常复杂的软件系统，人们花几十万美元购买，叫做报价配置器。

Like, you know, there's also entire complicated software systems that people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for called quote configurators.

对吧？

Right?

所以我们雇了这位订单处理人员，她把这一切都自动化了。

So we hired this deal desk person, and she automated all of that.

每次我们在CRM中收到新订单时，都会有一个AI直接生成订单表单并发布到Slack。

Every time we get a new deal in a CRM, there's an AI that generates the order form directly, posts it in Slack.

销售人员会这么做，你知道的，他们把东西发给客户，然后收集反馈。

The salespeople take it like, you know, they send it to the client, they get feedback.

在Slack里，他们会向机器人提供关于这个东西的反馈。

In Slack, they give the bot feedback on on the thing.

它会稍微更新一下，然后他们再发回去。

It kind of updates it, and and they send it back.

所以，以前很多工作都是手动复制粘贴，把Excel里的数据往CRM里填。

So a lot of that used to be manual copy pasting things and putting that from Excel toward to to to CRM.

所以，任何正在听这个的人，如果你在公司工作，想升职，就环顾四周，看看大家都在反复复制粘贴哪些数据。

So anyone work listening to this, working at a company, if you wanna get a promotion, just look around you and see what people are copy pasting data around.

你可以构建一个机器人，或者开发一个AI，或者写一段软件来自动化这些工作。

And you could build a bot, and you could build an AI, or could build a piece of software that can automate that.

在个人生活中，也有很多事情，比如如果你对健康感兴趣，经常追踪健康数据，像我就喜欢追踪我的睡眠，但有一段时间，我的睡眠出现了问题。

In in personal lives, there's a lot of things that like, if you're someone who's interested in in in in health and do a lot of tracking of health, Like, I I like to track my sleep, and at some point, it has, like, some sleep issues.

我的医生给了我一张表，让我记录一些东西，比如我吃了什么、服用了哪些药物、有没有锻炼、几点睡觉、几点起床，以及有没有睡眠中断。

And and my doctor gave me, like, a sheet to to track, like, you know, what I ate, what medications I took, if any if I exercise, then what time I slept, what time I woke up, any sleep interruptions.

每天早上醒来，我都会填这张表。

And and, like, I would wake up in the morning and, like, fill the sheet.

是的。

Yeah.

但大多数时候我很懒，不想做这件事。

And and most of the time, I'm lazy and, like, I don't wanna do it.

我总会忘记。

I forget.

随便吧。

Whatever.

我知道，我可以自动化这个过程。

I'm, you know, I can automate this.

我拍了那张表的照片，上传到Replit。

I took a photo of that sheet, put in a Replit.

你只要给Replit一张截图，然后说：把它做成一个应用就行。

You can just give Replit a screenshot and just say, like, make it into an app.

我做了一个应用，现在录入这些信息变得容易多了。

Made it on an app, and now we've gotten a little easier to, like, put in the you know, all this information.

但我还是经常会忘记自己吃了什么、吃了哪些药，或者那天做了什么。

But then I was like, I still forget what I ate or what medications I've took or, you know, whatever I've done that day.

所以我想，为什么我不直接在做这些事的时候拍照，而不是等忘了之后再补呢？

So I was like, why don't why can't I, like, take photos of these things as I'm doing them instead of, like, forgetting and, like, doing it later?

所以一整天里，我可以拍下我吃的东西或做过的事情。

So throughout the day, I can, like, take photos of of whatever I ate or or have done.

然后，AI会在第二天早上自动生成这些内容。

And then and then that that AI will, like, generate the content for for the next morning.

然后我就想，好吧。

And then I'm like, okay.

但我还是得手动记录我睡觉的时间、起床的时间以及夜间被打扰的情况，而我的床垫——比如我用的Eight Sleep，或者可穿戴设备——其实已经能获取所有这些数据了。

But, like, I'm putting my time to go to sleep and what time I woke up and then interruptions manually, but, like, my mattress, I use Eight Sleep, for example, or you can have a wearable, have all that information.

所以我只是告诉客服，直接从那里提取这些信息就行。

So I just, like, told the rep, like, just, like, pull that information from there.

它问我一些登录信息。

It asked me for some, you know, login information.

我照做了。

I did that.

所以现在整个过程变得无缝且自动化，我终于能坚持下去了。

So now the entire process is seamless and automated, and finally, I can commit to it.

我觉得在人们的生活中，有太多事情是手动完成的，人们会因此变得懒惰而不愿去做。

So I think in people's lives, there's so many things that are manual, and they, like, get lazy and they don't wanna do.

关于人工智能时代，我想说一点，这又回到了如何产生创意这个想法。

And one thing I would say about the age of AI, and this is back to this idea of, like, how do you generate ideas.

如果你懒，这反而会成为一种优势。

If you're lazy, that's gonna be a virtue.

我不是说你不想要完成工作之类的。

And I I don't mean it in a in a way that you don't wanna complete your work or all that.

但如果你天生就不想做手动工作，你会在生活中发现许多枯燥、本该手动完成的地方，然后去为这些地方开发一个应用。

But, like, if you're naturally just, like, don't wanna do manual work, you're gonna go about your life, and you're gonna see all these places that are just, like, boring and you should be doing manually, and just, like, go build an app for that.

也许这会变成一个消费者应用，我为自己开发的这个应用，未来或许可以上架到应用商店，因为它对其他人可能也有用。

And maybe that becomes a consumer app that I I you could like, the app that I'm building for myself, I could potentially put it on the app store at some point because it is probably useful for other people

那些想追踪睡眠的人。

who wanna track their sleep.

你听说过凯利眼吗？

You've heard of Kelly Eye.

对吧？

Right?

没听过。

No.

那是什么？

What is that?

真的吗？

Really?

哦，我们曾经邀请过他们的创始人做客。

Oh, that's we had the founder on.

我的意思是，他们确实做了，我觉得他在高中时就靠这个赚了两千五百万，或者那可能是估值。

I mean, they do, like, I think he made, like, 25,000,000 from it in high school, or maybe that was the valuation.

就是拍一张食物的照片，就能自动计算卡路里。

It was just take a photo of food and chucks calories automatically.

哦。

Oh.

听起来你是为了自己个人需求开发了这个应用。

It just sounds like you built that for yourself as a personal

这些东西都很简单。

These things are easy.

而且还不只是这样。

And it's not just that.

它不仅能追踪睡眠，还能做其他一些功能。

It is you know, it it does sleep and does some some of the other stuff.

是的。

Yeah.

是的

Yeah.

我当时就觉得，这听起来更整合一些。

I was like, that sounds more integrated.

这真的很有趣。

That's really interesting.

这确实是个很酷的领域，想想所有的可穿戴设备，还有那些追踪数据、整合各种功能的应用程序，嗯。

That's that's a cool space to think about, like, all the wearable tech and, like, all the things that are tracking data and building apps that combine all these things Mhmm.

总的来说。

In general.

但你觉得，是什么让一个人在提示AI方面很糟糕，而另一个人却非常擅长呢？

But what do you think separates someone who's bad at prompting AI from someone who's really good at it?

你知道吗，我有点讨厌‘提示AI’这个词，因为AI研究人员花了大量时间研究如何让AI回应人类的查询。

You know, I kinda hate the word prompting AI because AI researchers spend a lot of time figuring out how to make AI respond to human queries.

我认为，区分这两类人的关键在于是否善于沟通。

I would say what separates those people are the people who are good communicators.

你总体上需要成为一个优秀的沟通者。

You need to just be good communicator in general.

与人类沟通，让他们回应AI。

Prompting humans respond to AI.

你是一个能很好地管理实习生的人吗？

Are you someone who can manage an intern well?

如果你能很好地管理实习生，你就能很好地管理AI。

If you're someone who can manage an internal well, you can manage an AI well.

把AI想象成一名员工或实习生。

Think about an AI as an employee or an intern.

开始思考：我该如何用它的语言交流？

Start thinking about, oh, how do I talk its language?

不。

No.

只需好好沟通即可。

Just communicate well.

只要抓住一个想法，把它拆解成各个部分。

Just take an idea, break it down to its parts.

如果这些部分太复杂，就继续进一步拆解。

If its parts are so complicated, break them down further.

这全在于把事物拆解成独立的组件。

It's all about breaking down things into individual components.

然后给予精确的反馈，尽可能多地提供上下文和反馈，截取屏幕截图、拍摄图片。

And then giving precise feedback And giving as much context and feedback as possible, taking screenshots, taking images.

如果你想在沟通方面真正变得出色，我建议你试试公开演讲。

If you wanna get really good at just communication in general, I would suggest, like, doing public speaking.

对。

Right.

我小时候其实有舞台恐惧症。

I had a actually, stage fright growing up.

但我还是会去做，因为我就是不喜欢被自己的恐惧束缚。

And I would still do it because I just don't like to be held back by my fears.

但当我刚来美国时，我想创业、上播客、当领导者，我觉得我必须克服这种恐惧。

But when I first came to The US and I felt like I wanna be able to start startups and be on podcasts and be a leader, I thought that I need to get past that.

于是我心想，我能把自己置于最艰难的境地是哪里？

And so I thought, like, what is the hardest place I could put myself in?

这就像把自己扔进火里，来战胜这种恐惧。

It's like throwing myself in the fire to get past that fear.

所以通过脱敏来消除恐惧，对吧？这是一种流行的心理学方法。

So so deprogram the fear by desensitization, right, It's a popular, like, psychology method.

我觉得，我们现在生活在一个太温和的世界里，精神科医生和心理学家都不太处理这种问题。

I think, you know, we're in such a soft world right now that, like, psychiatrists, psychologists don't treat things like that.

但一直以来都是这样，如果你怕水，你孩子怕水，就直接把他们扔进水里。

But it's always been the case, like, if you're afraid of water, if your kid is afraid of water, throw them in the fucking water.

你知道的吧？

You know?

让他们游起来。

Let them swim.

这就是我爸爸这么做的原因。

That's why my dad did it.

所以我去了纽约参加即兴表演课程。

So I took up improv classes in New York.

即兴表演如果你不擅长公开演讲或临场应变，你会表现得很差。

And improv is if if you're bad at public speaking or or thinking on your feet, you're gonna do really bad at it.

然后我参加了讲故事的课程。

And then I took up storytelling classes.

我还参加了一个讲故事的演出，讲了我是如何黑进学校修改成绩的故事。

And I I did a storytelling show where I told a story about how I hacked into my school to to change my grades.

而且

And

我得听听这个故事，但你能继续说下去吗？

so I'll have to hear that story, but can you continue your thought?

随着时间推移，我越来越擅长与人交谈，努力用简单的方式表达复杂的想法，因为我认为这才是真正出色的沟通。

So over time, I just got better at talking to to people and, like, trying to communicate complex ideas simply because I think that's what really good communication is about.

如果你擅长这一点，那你就能很好地与AI交流并给它下指令。

And if you're good at that, then you're good at talking to AI and prompting it.

我前女友曾说，杰克，我是个很差的沟通者。

My last girlfriend, she was like, Jack, I'm such a bad communicator.

我该怎么提升这方面的能力呢？

Like, how do I, like, work on this?

我当时说，去上一堂即兴表演课吧。

I was like, just go to an improv class.

她其实不太喜欢，但正如我所说，我觉得这帮助她稍微理解了一些基本技巧。

She didn't really love it, but like I said, I think it helped her a bit understand, like, the basic techniques.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这非常有帮助。

I think it's super helpful.

确实如此。

It is.

所以你小时候黑进学校系统改过成绩？

So you hacked into your school to change your grades as a kid?

是的。

Yeah.

我当时在约旦上大学，读的是那所大学的技术学院。

So I was going to university in Jordan, Princess of my university for technology.

那是所不错的计算机科学学校。

Good good computer science school.

但你知道，我对不感兴趣的东西就是没法集中注意力。

But, you know, I I don't know how to pay attention to things that I don't like.

比如，如果我上历史课或经济学课，觉得老师教的内容对我未来生活没用，或者教学方式太无聊，我就真的做不到。

Like, if I'm taking, like, a history class or econ class, and I feel like whatever they're teaching me is not gonna be useful for me in life or it's just not interesting the way they teach it, I just can't.

只是坐在那里听讲，对我来说简直是一种巨大的痛苦。

It's just, like, incredibly painful for me to just sit there and just listen.

所以我经常逃课，去搞我的编程，或者找份工作。

So I would skip class, and I would, like, go work on my programming, go good you know, take a job.

上学期间我总是有兼职工作。

I always had jobs during school.

然后我只会学够通过考试的内容，而且我几乎总是能及格。

And then I would study enough to to just pass, and I almost always pass.

在数学和计算机科学这类科目上，我有时能取得不错的成绩。

In some cases in, like, math and computer science, I would, like, get good grades.

我学校的问题，也是全球许多学校的问题，是他们会计算出勤率。

The problem in my school is and a lot of schools around the world is that if you they count your attendance.

所以如果你连续缺课太多次，就会被取消资格。

So if you missed class too many times in a row, you get you get disqualified.

我觉得这很不公平，尤其是对于我这样有创造力、想做事情的人来说，我们根本不想坐在教室里，我认为这种学习方式已经非常过时了。

And so I I I felt like it was kind of deep injustice, especially for for people like me who are, like, creative, wanna be doing things, they wanna be sitting in class, which I think is, like, a very outdated way of of learning in general.

我认为我们终将超越这种方式，尤其是在人工智能时代。

I think we're gonna move past, especially with AI.

所以我的所有朋友都毕业了。

So all my friends were graduating.

我已经上了五年学，快六年了。

I'm, like, five years in, almost six years in school.

学校本该三年或四年就结束的。

School should have been three, four years.

我觉得生活从我身边溜走了。

And I feel like like life is passing me by.

你知道的，我曾经怀有那么多宏伟的梦想和抱负。

Like, you know, I had all these big dreams and ambitions.

我想创办公司，赚很多钱，诸如此类，但我却困住了。

I wanna build companies, make a lot of money, all of that, but I was, like, stuck.

于是我想到，我要用我的技能来解决这个问题。

And so I thought, I'd use my my skills to to to get over this problem.

你可以把生活中几乎任何问题都看作是一个编程问题。

You can cast almost any problem in life as a coding problem.

我想，好吧。

And I thought, okay.

我要黑进学校系统，把我因缺勤而挂掉的成绩改成及格。

I'm gonna hack into a school and and change my grades from from when they fail me for attendance to, like, a passing grade.

于是我花了两到三周时间，在我父母家的地下室尝试破解那里的系统。

So I spent two, three weeks in in my parents' home in in the basement trying to like break into to the systems there.

我会编写脚本、进行网络扫描，做所有这些事情。

I would, like, work on, scripts and do network scans and all of that.

我还尝试了多相睡眠法。

And I implemented polyphasic sleeping.

你听说过这个吗？

Do you know that?

听起来有点耳熟。

That sounds familiar.

那是什么？

What is that?

米开朗基罗，你知道的，那位艺术家发明家。

Michelangelo, you know, the the inventor artists.

这可能是历史上输出效率最高的人之一，他每四小时只睡十五分钟，因为他一直在不停地工作。

It's like one of the most highest output human beings in history probably ever to come, would sleep fifteen minutes every four hours because he was working nonstop.

特斯拉也做过类似的事情。

Tesla did a similar thing.

我记得。

I remember.

特斯拉很可能也这么做过。

Tesla's probably, yeah, did that as well.

所以我想，是的，我也想能够大量工作、非常努力，并且保持高效。

And so I was like, yeah, I want wanna be able to, like, you know, work a lot and really hard and be really efficient.

于是我也这么做了。

So I I I did that as well.

所以连续两周，简直疯狂，一直在尝试绘制系统结构，弄清楚所有这些。

So for two weeks, just madness, just going and, like, trying to, you know, map out of the system and figure all that out.

最终，我找到了一个漏洞，一种进入系统的方法。

So I finally found a vulnerability, a way to to get into to to the system.

但我担心自己可能没有正确的系统，于是我有个邻居和我上同一所学校。

But I was worried about maybe I didn't have the right systems, and so I had a neighbor who was going to the same school as me.

我就说，嘿。

I was like, hey.

你知道吗，我有个办法可以改成绩。

Can, You know, I I have to say this this thing that I can change grades.

我能拿你做个测试吗？

Can I test it on you?

于是我们进行了测试。

And so we I I we we test it.

我们改了成绩，但后来发现我操作的是一个副本数据库，而不是主数据库。

We changed the grades, but actually turns out that I I was doing that on a Replica database, not on the master database.

所以当他去查看成绩和成绩单时，那些改动并没有显示出来。

So when he went to kinda pull his grades, this his transcripts, it it wasn't it wasn't reflected there.

于是我又花了两周时间，终于找到了进入实际系统的方法。

So I spent another two weeks and then found a way out of the actual system.

然后我就有信心能改掉我的成绩，真的能顺利毕业。

And then and then I was confident that I could, like, change my grades and actually get to graduate.

我仍然觉得这么做是理所应当的。

And I still felt like it was the the the just thing to do.

这么做是公平的。

It was a fair thing to do.

对吧？

Right?

于是我改了我的成绩。

So I changed my grades.

我改了微积分和其他科目的成绩。

I calculus and other things.

我不想上学，但我还是及格了。

I didn't wanna go to school, but I passed.

我知道，你知道，但他们还是因为出勤率挂了我，所以我改了成绩。

I know I you know, but they failed me anyways for attendance, so I changed my grades.

我买了学位服，参加了毕业派对，拍了照片。

And I bought my gown, went to the graduation parties, took photos.

我只是在毕业而已。

I was just graduating.

有一天，我在家，电话响了，我接了起来。

One day, I'm at home and the telephone rings, and I I I pick it up.

是负责大学网络和注册系统的人打来的。

And it's like the person responsible for the college network and and registration system.

他说：你看。

He's like, look.

整个网络和大学系统都瘫痪了。

The entire network and the university is down.

每当我们查看代码时，都发现你的档案里有个漏洞。

And whenever we look at the code, we see the there's a bug in your record.

有个问题显示你被取消了期末考试资格，但你的成绩却是及格的。

There's a problem where it says you're disqualified from the final exam, but you're also passing.

结果发现他们还有一个我根本不知道的字段，是用来标记你是否因缺勤而被取消资格的，是真或假。

It turns out they had another field that I didn't know about that was was like true or false or whether you're disqualified for for attendance.

而且他们给这个字段起了特别糟糕的名字，我觉得这是他们编程上的问题。

And and they had all these bad names for the field, I I think they're bad programming on their part.

但无论如何，我还是漏掉了一些信息。

But it's still I I kinda missed something.

所以我面临一个选择。

So I I had a choice.

你要么撒谎，然后一直活在谎言里，要么就坦白交代。

You lie and you kind of live with the lie or you come you come clean.

而我就是不想撒谎。

And and I just didn't wanna lie.

于是我告诉他：听我说，我有件事要告诉你。

And I told him, look, I, you know, I have something to tell you.

我明天会来学校，当面跟你说明情况。

I'm gonna come tomorrow's school, kind of share with you.

所以第二天我去的时候，事情比我想象的要严重得多。

So I went the next day and it was a much bigger deal than I expected.

所有的院长都坐在那里，计算机科学院长、工程院长都在。

All the different deans were sitting there, the computer science dean, the engineering dean.

他们整晚都在绞尽脑汁，彻夜未眠，试图找出问题所在。

They've been racking their brain the whole night, stayed up all night trying to figure out what's the problem.

于是我心想，这正是我把它变成一场技术分享而非审讯的好机会，于是我拿出白板，详细解释了他们所有的系统问题、我是如何入侵的，还使出浑身解数，用尽所有技巧和魅力试图打动他们。

And so I'm like this is my opportunity to make it a tech talk as opposed to to an interrogation and pull out the whiteboard and explain all the different problems, all the systems they had and how I hacked into it and really, like, pulled out all the all the sobs and all the charisma to kind of try to impress them.

他们真的非常印象深刻。

And they were really impressed.

印象深刻到甚至完全沉浸在技术讨论中，我心想：好吧。

So impressed and so kind of in the element of the technical discussion that I'm like, alright.

既然我已经解释清楚了，那我就回家了。

Now that I've explained it, I'm headed home.

回头见，各位。

I'll see you guys later.

我打开门，问：‘你打算去哪儿？’

And I opened the door and I was like, where are you going?

我得跟你好好谈谈。

Like, gotta deal with you.

你刚对我们学校做了这种事。

You just did this this thing to our school.

你刚黑进了学校。

You just hacked into the school.

我们不能让你就这么走了。

We can't let you go.

幸运的是，大学校长是个非常开明的人，他看到了我的才华。他们本可以轻易毁掉我的人生，但我和他解释了我这么做的原因，他很理解。

Luckily, the president of the university was someone who was like really enlightened and saw the talent that I had and they they could have easily derailed my life, you know, but I I, you know, I explained, like, my reasoning for why I did this, and he was understanding.

他当时说了蜘蛛侠的那句名言。

And he gave me at the time the the Spider Man line.

他说：‘你有非凡的才能，强大的力量，但力量越大，责任越大。’

He's like, you have a great talent, great power, but with power comes responsibility.

我对这件事非常认真。

I was very sincere about it.

他说，我们会放你走，但你必须在夏天为大学工作，修复漏洞和安全问题。

And he said, we're gonna let you go, but you're gonna have to spend the summer working for the university trying to fix the vulnerabilities and the security issues.

所以我说，这没问题。

And so I was like, that's no problem.

我非常乐意做这件事。

I would love to do that.

夏天我去报到时，那里的程序员们都恨透了我，因为我黑进了他们的系统。

So I show up in the summer, and the programmers there hate my guts because I hacked into their system.

他们不让我进去。

And they wouldn't let me in.

我会去他们工作的门口敲门，能看见他们，但他们就是不让我进。

Like, I would go knock at the door where they work, and I can see them, and they wouldn't let me in.

他们根本不给我机会去贡献和修复系统。

So they didn't give me a chance to contribute and and fix the system.

顺便说一下，大家都很包容我。

And by the way, everyone was cutting me slack.

我觉得所有教授都担心我会黑进他们的邮箱，所以我有一种隐性的权力。

I think all the professors just was worried I'm gonna hack into their emails, and so I had this, like, implicit power.

这简直出了名了。

And it was, like, notorious.

这也真的很酷。

It was really cool as well.

我到处都得到了认可。

Was getting recognition everywhere.

然后这位计算机科学院长来找我，说：嘿。

And this computer science dean comes in and tells me, like, hey.

你知道，我帮了你很多，让你度过了这个难关。

You know, I I helped you a lot to to get past this problem.

所以你的毕业项目得和我一起做。

So for your graduation project, you need to work with me.

我们要再次入侵学校。

And what we're gonna do is we're gonna hack into the school again.

我说，老兄，我已经翻篇了。

I'm like, bro, I'm not I'm past that.

我根本不再搞安全和黑客了。

I'm not even working on security and hacking.

我现在只是打算创业，做些类似的事情。

I'm just like, you know, I'm gonna build companies and things like that.

不行。

It's like, no.

你必须得做，不然我就不让你毕业。

You have to do it, or, you know, I won't graduate you.

所以我说，好吧。

So I like, okay.

我来做吧。

I'll do it.

所以我说，好吧。

And so I I I'm like, okay.

但这次，我要构建一个系统。

But this time, I'm gonna build a system.

我不会直接去黑进系统。

I'm not gonna go hack directly into it.

所以我开发了一款软件，可以扫描任何系统中的漏洞。

So I built a piece of software that scans any system for vulnerabilities.

果然，我在系统中发现了一些漏洞。

And sure enough, I found some vulnerabilities in the system.

所以我的毕业答辩是这样的：你坐在几位院长面前，进行一场演示。

So my graduation defense, so you're you're sitting in front of the different deans and you're kind of getting a presentation.

我向他们讲述了我是如何构建这个安全扫描器的。

And I told them how I built the security scanner.

顺便说一下，我要在大学系统上运行它，没错，这里存在不少漏洞。

And by the way, I'm gonna run it on the university system, and, yep, we have a bunch of vulnerabilities here.

然后，工程学院的院长说，你在撒谎。

And then different dean of engineering was like, you're lying.

他这么说让我很惊讶。

I was surprised that he said that.

我心想，你为什么觉得我在撒谎？

I'm like, why why do you think I'm lying?

他说，因为我们已经修复了这个系统。

And he's like, because we fixed the system.

我负责修复这个系统，我们确实修复了。

I was responsible for fixing the system, and we fixed the system.

我当时想，显然你们根本没修好。

I was like, clearly, you didn't.

他说，那你证明给我看。

It's like, prove it.

我说，好吧。

I'm like, okay.

我还在我系统里搞了个东西，可以自动执行漏洞，从而获得数据库的shell访问权限。

I also built, like, something in my system where you can automatically execute the vulnerabilities, so I get a shell access to the database.

我说，好吧。

I'm like, okay.

你们想让我们找到什么？

What do you want us to find?

是你们的密码，还是你们的工资？

Your password or your or your salary?

还是你们希望我们怎么证明？

Or how do you want us to prove it?

我说，好吧。

I was like, okay.

拿到我的密码。

Get get my password.

于是通过一条查询，我拿到了他的密码。

So with a query, I get his password.

而且那是个特别尴尬的密码。

And it was some embarrassing password.

我现在忘了具体是什么，但人们确实会有各种各样的尴尬密码。

I forgot what it was right now, but people have all sorts of embarrassing passwords.

他的脸一下子红了，变得非常生气，站起来握了握我的手，然后就走了。

And his his face turned red, and he got really angry, and he got up, shook my hand, and and left.

后来我才明白，我其实是这两位院长之间竞争的棋子。

Well, turns out, I was like a pawn in this rivalry between the two different deans.

所以，一位院长被赋予了保护系统安全的责任。

So he the other dean like, one dean was given the responsibility to secure the system.

另一位则希望我重新黑入系统来证明它的漏洞。

The other one wanted to kind of make sure I re hack the system to prove it.

但不管怎样，最后我毕业了，现在和大学保持着非常好的关系。

But anyways, I at the end, I I graduate, and and I now have, like, really great relationship with the university.

这真是个很棒的故事，真心的。

That's a great story, genuinely.

在你的领域里，那些非常成功的创始人似乎都有一个共同点，那就是某种黑客背景，无论是黑帽还是白帽。

It seems like some type of commonality with really successful founders in your space is, like, this kinda hacker, black hat, white hat background.

关于学习这个概念，比如作弊、破解系统，你觉得我们该如何利用人工智能让自己变得更聪明？你个人是怎么做的？

Just on this concept of learning in general, cheating, hacking the system, how do you think we should be using AI to become smarter, and how do you do it personally?

我认为这里有一种心态。

I think that there's a mindset here.

首先，这个世界是由并不比你聪明多少的人建造的。

There's a mindset of, first of all, the world was built by people that are not much smarter than you.

有很多规则是偶然存在的，只是出于历史原因。

And there are a lot of rules that are accidental that are there for historical reasons.

你的任务是找到通往未来的路径，找到最符合世界发展方向的做事方式。

And your job is to find the path to the future, find the the the way of doing things that's most aligned where the world is headed.

因为你的老师和父母给你的建议已经不再有效了。

Because the advice your teachers, your parents are gonna give you are just not valid anymore.

我们这一代，比如千禧一代，婴儿潮一代给我们的建议是：努力工作，上一所好大学，完成这个目标、那个目标，找一份好工作，买房子和车，组建家庭。

My generation, like millennials, the advice that the boomers would give us is that you work hard, you get into good university, you check this box, this other box, you get a good job, you buy a house and a car, Get a family.

就是这样。

That's it.

几年后，你会明白，二十年后你成了百万富翁，因为你的房产升值了，然后你退休，幸福地生活下去。

You you know, few years in, like, you'll you know, twenty years later, you're a millionaire because your house property went up value, and you retire and live happily ever after.

这种生活已经不复存在了。

That's that doesn't exist.

这种生活确实曾在二战后持续了二三十年，但现在已经消失了。

That does, like, existed for, like, twenty, thirty years post World War two, and then it's gone.

所以这并不是关于作弊。

So it's not about cheating.

而是要弄清楚系统是如何对你不利的，以及你该如何真正地破解它？

It's about figuring out how the system is rigged against you And how do you actually hack it?

你该如何突破它？

How do you get past it?

你该如何以更自然、更贴近当今世界发展方向的方式去做事？

How do you how do you do things in a way that is more native and true to the where the where the world is headed today?

AI 是实现这一点的绝佳工具。

AI is a great tool for that.

只要你理解这些工具的工作原理，就能获得巨大的优势，做事快得多。

Just the fact if you're someone who just understands how these tools work and understand how you have an amazing time advantage, you can do things a lot faster.

还有很多程序员仍在用老方法编程，他们进展非常缓慢，而且会一直慢下去，直到被淘汰。

Again, there there are a lot of programmers that are still doing programming the old way, and they're going very, very slow, and they're gonna continue to go very slow until they get obsoleted.

但如今涌现了许多新的创造者，他们直接用 Replit 或类似工具来构建东西，速度要快得多。

But there are a lot of new builders coming up today, and they're like, I'm gonna just, like, make things with with Replit or tools like that, and I'm gonna go just a lot faster.

我会更快地迭代，提出更好的想法，打造更优秀的企业和系统。

I'm gonna iterate faster, make make better ideas, build better companies and systems.

因此，我想再次强调这种‘懒惰’的美德。

So I would I would reemphasize this this virtue of laziness.

我觉得我们在学校学到的很多东西根本不值得。

Like, I think a lot of what we're taught in school is is not worth it.

这些不值得我们花时间。

It's not worth our time.

我对学校的看法就是，怎么绕开它？

And my approach to school was like, how do you get around it?

我需要大学学历才能去美国。

Like, I I needed a college education to get to The United States.

否则我早就退学了。

Otherwise, I would have dropped out.

如果我在美国，我也会退学。

If I was in The US, I would have dropped out.

对很多人来说，退学不去上大学可能是个好主意。

And it's it's probably a good idea for a lot of people to drop out and not not go to college.

但我必须这么做，才能拿到签证来到这里。

And so but but I needed to do that in order to to get a visa to get to get here.

对吧？

Right?

所以请考虑你的处境，想想如何绕开障碍，很可能AI能帮你更快地达成目标，把事情做得更好。

And so think about your circumstances and think about ways around them, and there's probably ways in which AI could could help you get there faster and do things better.

要意识到，如果你真正理解了这项技术的工作原理，跟上了它的进展，并且能比别人做得更好、更快，你就拥有了优势，那就直接利用它吧。

And realize that if you truly understand how this technology work, if you're up to speed on it, if you can do things better and faster than other people, you have an advantage and just look lean into that.

我觉得这非常有帮助。

I think that's super helpful.

那具体是什么？

What is it?

霍尔莫齐说，是数量乘以反馈循环，而AI能帮你更快地构建东西、更快地迭代。

Hormozi says it's volume times feedback loops, and AI helps you build things faster, iterate faster.

关于工作，你认为在AI时代，哪些工作会是薪酬最高的？

On the concept of jobs, what do you think will be the highest paying jobs in the age of AI?

企业家。

Entrepreneur.

企业家。

Entrepreneur.

我的心态一直是以创造财富为目标，而不是拿薪水。

Like, my mindset has always been about building wealth as opposed to getting salary.

对。

Right.

积累财富的方式有很多，但所有方式都围绕着拥有所有权，而不是拿工资。

There there are a lot of different ways to build wealth, but all of them revolve around ownership as opposed to getting salaries.

当我刚在美国Code Academy公司找到第一份工作时，那家公司后来以十亿美元的价格被收购了，我对他们说：你们只要给我足够吃饭的钱就行。

When when I got my first job in The US working for Code Academy, a company that sold for half $1,000,000,000, I told them you can just, like, pay me enough to eat.

只管给我尽可能多的股权。

Just give me as much equity as I as it can give me.

我在纽约市的年薪是7万美元。

I was paid $70,000 in New York City.

你知道那有多艰难吗？

You know how painful that was?

我住在一间和别人合租的小公寓里。

I was living in a studio with other people.

对。

Right.