AEE 2620：琳赛和米歇尔带你揭穿谬误并建立连接

这是《All Ears English》播客第2620期。

This is an All Ears English Podcast episode twenty six twenty.

跟着Lindsay和Michelle一起辟谣、交流。

Debunk and connect with Lindsay and Michelle.

欢迎收听《All Ears English》播客，全球下载量已超过两亿次。

Welcome to the All Ears English Podcast downloaded more than 200,000,000 times.

你是不是觉得自己的英语进步卡住了？

Are you feeling stuck with your English?

我们会教你如何摆脱恐惧，流利说英语。本期节目由两位美国主持人带来：英语探险家Lindsay McMahon，和纽约电台女孩Michelle Kaplan，他们从科罗拉多和纽约市为你直播。

We'll show you how to become fearless and fluent by focusing perfection with your American hosts, Lindsay McMahon, the English adventurer, and Michelle Kaplan, the New York radio girl, coming to you from Colorado and New York City, USA.

想每周收到邮件发送的文本稿？请访问 allearsenglish.com/subscribe。

And to get your transcripts delivered by email every week, go to allearsenglish.com forward slash subscribe.

“debunk”这个词是什么意思？该怎么用？

What does the word debunk mean, and how do you use it?

今天，我们来学怎么在营养、科学、历史、政治等多个领域，引出最新的研究发现。

Today, learn how to bring up new research in tons of areas, including nutrition, science, history, politics, and more.

今天一起来听吧。

Listen in today.

懂英语和用英语交流之间有很大的区别。

There's a big difference between understanding English and participating in English.

懂英语就是能跟上对话的内容。

Understanding means you follow the conversation.

而参与对话，则是要表达自己的想法，自然回应，让对话持续下去。

You participate by adding your ideas, reacting naturally, and keeping the conversation moving.

很多英语学习者听力不错，但说话时却很犹豫。

Many English learners are strong listeners, but hesitant speakers.

一旦你清楚了自己的流利程度，缩小这个差距就会容易得多。

Once you know your current fluency level, it becomes much easier to close that gap.

来做个免费的两分钟小测验，看看你的水平，以及接下来该重点练什么。

Take our free two minute quiz to discover your level and what to focus on next.

访问 allearsenglish.com/fluencyscore。

Go to all earsenglish.com/fluencyscore.

那就是 all earsenglish.com/fluencyscore。

That's all earsenglish.com/fluencyscore.

嗨，米歇尔。

Hey there, Michelle.

你今天怎么样？

What is going on with you today?

没什么特别的，林赛。

Not too much, Lindsay.

你呢？

How are you?

我感觉不错。

I'm feeling good.

我准备好上节目了，今天想跟听众们聊聊一个好话题。

I'm ready to be on the mic and talk about a good topic for today for our listeners.

是啊。

Yeah?

是的。

Yeah.

我也是。

Me too.

Lindsay，你平时会相信新闻里发布的那些研究吗？还是持保留态度？

Lindsay, do you tend to believe studies that come out in the news or are you wary of them?

比如，这其实挺难说的。

Like, that's tricky.

说有15%吃这个的人会在二十年内因食物相关疾病去世，你知道的，这类消息太多了。

Fifteen percent of people who eat this will die, like, in, twenty year, you know, about food, illness, you know, there's so many things that come out.

你看到这些消息时，心里是怎么想的？

What do you what's your feeling when you see those?

如果研究结果支持我本来就有的习惯，说这东西好，我就会相信。

I tend to believe them when it supports a habit I already have, and it says it's good.

比如咖啡。

Like coffee.

现在媒体对咖啡的评价都挺正面的。

These days, the press on coffee is good.

对。

Yes.

没错。

Yes.

你打算

You wanna

现在去喝杯咖啡吗？

go coffee right now?

但你永远说不准。

But then you never know.

两年后，说不定又说咖啡会致癌了。

In two years, it could be like, oh, now it causes cancer.

我的意思是，以前葡萄酒就经历过这种事，记得吗？本世纪初，大家都说——

I mean, that's what happened with not exactly what happened with wine, but back in the in the oughts, do you remember when everyone said Yeah.

红葡萄酒对心脏有好处

Red wine is good for your

心脏。

heart.

这纯属意外。

It's an accident.

于是大家都开始多喝红葡萄酒，结果现在却说：不对了。

And so everyone started drinking more red wine, and now they're like, nope.

总的来说，酒精对你身体很不好。

Alcohol in general is very bad for you.

是啊，我知道。

Yep, I know.

真难跟上这些说法的变化。

It's so hard to follow along.

我现在也搞不清楚了。

I don't know anymore.

所以我尽量凡事都适度，抱最好的希望。

So that's why I try and stick with everything in moderation and hope for the best.

我的意思是，那些明显对身体有害的东西我当然不会碰，但其他一些偶尔吃喝的东西就随它了。

I mean not obviously things that are terrible for me, but, yeah, things that are on the fly.

今天我们要聊一个在这些情境下经常出现的词。

So today we're gonna talk about a word that often comes up in these scenarios.

我觉得这个词现在特别流行，我最近经常看到，确实如此。

And this is I think this is kind of a buzzword today because we're always I mean, I've seen it a lot Yeah.

最近。

Recently.

对。

Yeah.

因为我们总在讨论这类话题。

Because we're always talking about these kinds of things.

所以这个‘Yeah’。

So the Yeah.

这个词是什么？

What's the word?

驳斥。

Debunk.

驳斥。

Debunk.

驳斥。

Debunk.

我喜欢这个词。

I love it.

念起来挺有意思的。

It's kinda fun to say.

听上去就是‘驳斥’。

It sounds Debunk.

不清楚。

Don't know.

听起来咱们这会儿是在发布新闻了。

It sounds like we're dropping news here.

对。

Yeah.

那个词怎么拼？

How do you spell that?

对。

Yeah.

D-E-B-U-N-K。

D e b u n k.

挺有意思的一个词。

Interesting word.

我不清楚这个词的来源，但它的意思基本上是指出，人们以前相信某件事是真的，现在证明其实是假的。

I don't know where it comes from, but it basically means to show that something people people believe that something is now false that maybe they believed was true before.

没错。

Yes.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yes.

没错。

Exactly.

我们马上再详细聊聊这个话题。

So we're gonna talk more about that in just a second, guys.

别忘了在您收听《All Ears English》播客的平台点个关注，这样就不会错过任何一期了。

We wanna remind you to hit follow wherever you're listening to the All Ears English Podcast so you never miss an episode.

没错。

Yep.

只有一个《All Ears English》。

There's only one All Ears English.

我们相信的是连接，而不是完美。

Our belief is connection, not perfection.

所以如果你喜欢我们的风格，想每周五天跟我们一起学习，记得点关注，或者如果你在YouTube上看，就点订阅。

So if you love our style the way we do this and you wanna come along with us five days a week, you gotta hit that follow button or that subscribe button if you are consuming this on YouTube.

这会很有趣，因为我一直觉得特别有意思，尤其是在美国文化里，我们总爱拿自己开玩笑。

So, this is gonna be fun because I've always found it interesting, especially, you know, in American culture, poke fun at ourselves here.

我们对健康研究、营养研究这么着迷，可肥胖率还是全球最高之一。

We're so obsessed with health research, nutrition research, but we still have some of the highest rates of obesity in the world.

这到底是怎么回事呢？

It's like, what gives?

你说是不是？

You know?

对啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

问得好。

Good question.

是的

Yeah.

我觉得也因为我们国家太大了。

I mean, I think it's also because we're such a large country.

对

Yeah.

没错

Sure.

没错

Sure.

真的很难让每个人都配合起来。

That's so It's like, it's so hard to get everybody on board.

确实如此。

It's for sure.

是的

Yeah.

你知道吗，全国各地差异可大了。

You know, different areas in the country are totally different.

所以这特别有意思。

And so it's very it's very interesting.

说到‘debunk’这个词，其实就是证明某事是错的。

So with this word debunk, so again, it's kind of like proving something is wrong.

对。

Yes.

所以你

So you

可能会听到像驳斥谣言、驳斥理论、驳斥常见误解这样的说法。

might hear things like debunk a myth, debunk a theory, debunk a common misconception.

你是说 debunk 还是 debunk？

Do you say debunk or debunk?

而且你在新闻里经常看到这个词，对吧？

Or see this word in the news a lot, right?

就像我们刚才聊的，那种辟谣，我觉得我说的是‘debunk’，比如对一项研究，就是我们讨论的这种，你懂的？

Like, so we talked about, you know, debunking, I guess I say debunk, a study, like what we're talking about, you know?

比如咖啡，以前说咖啡对身体不好，但现在我们已经澄清了，其实它特别好。

Oh, the coffee, you know, they said that coffee was bad, now but we've debunked that and we realize it's great.

对吧？

Right?

那对我们来说不是更好吗？

All the better for us.

是的。

Yes.

没错。

Right.

就是这样。

Exactly.

但不只是营养方面，虽然我真的很喜欢，也不晓得怎么说，我觉得营养特别有意思。

But it's not just nutrition, even though I really enjoy, I don't know, I find nutrition really interesting.

我喜欢找那些登在新闻里的文章，每次都看，然后把这些误解加到我的知识库里面。

I enjoy seeking out those, those articles are in the news, I always read them and add them to, you know, my body of knowledge misunderstandings.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

但这可不只是营养学的问题。

But it goes beyond just nutrition, of course.

不过这儿有个跟营养有关的例子。

So here's one with nutrition, though.

我读过一篇驳斥'低脂饮食有益健康'这一误解的文章。

I read an article debunking the misconception that a low fat diet is good for you.

这其实是最近才开始流行起来的观点，但有些人又说高脂饮食才对身体好。

And this is another thing that has been coming out recently, but then people saying high fat diet is good for you.

这个我也不太确定。

I'm not sure about that either.

对吧？

Right?

有些事你只能半信半疑，尽力而为就好。

It's it's know, some of it, you just have to just have to take it all with a grain of salt and like kind of just do your best.

我也不清楚。

I don't know.

因为你知道，现在又说有好脂肪和坏脂肪之分。

It's because, I mean, you know, then they say there's good fats and bad fats.

我们小时候，琳赛，你肯定记得，那时候什么都讲低脂、低脂。

When I, you know, when we were growing up, Lindsay, I'm sure you remember it was like, everything was low fat, low fat.

可与此同时，他们却往里加了大量化学物质。

Meanwhile they're adding all these chemicals in.

没错，这些物质很可能对健康危害很大。

Right, that are probably really dangerous for our health.

对，还有这些人工甜味剂、各种添加剂和防腐剂。

Right, all these fake sugars and you know, sort of additives and preservatives.

是啊，总得想办法让味道好一点吧。

Yeah, they had to make it taste good somehow.

没错，我记得确实如此。

Right, like I remember yeah.

我记得我刚开始琢磨这事的时候。

I remember when I first started thinking about that.

我记得那时候我总买低脂沙拉酱。

I remember because I would always get like low fat salad dressing.

对。

Yeah.

我妈妈一个朋友还说，确实如此。

And I remember one of my mom's friend was like, yeah.

但总得做点什么，才能让味道过得去。

But like, what have to do something to make the taste good.

所以那些东西让我开始思考，到底它们是什么。

So like, what are they and that sort of made me think.

而且，我总是记得这件事。

And, yeah, I always remember that.

这就是我喜欢旅行的原因，因为世界上其他地方的很多食物都是新鲜的。

This is why I love traveling because if you go pretty much anywhere else in the world, a lot of the food is is fresh.

比如你去意大利。

Like, you go to Italy.

没错。

Yes.

还有法国。

France.

你吃的简直就是从农场到餐桌的原生态食物。

I mean, you're just you're eating farm to table.

是的。

Yeah.

而且价格也不贵得离谱。

And it's not astronomically expensive either.

而且就是就是

And it just just

天哪。

oh gosh.

我记得以前在斯洛文尼亚的时候。

I remember when Slovenia

去年。

last year.

斯洛文尼亚的饭菜特别干净。

Slovenia, the food in Slovenia is so clean.

真的特别干净。

It's just so clean.

吃的时候你能感觉到，胃里都很舒服。

And you can tell, you feel it in your stomach when you're eating it.

这跟在美国吃饭的体验完全不一样。

It's just such a different experience than eating here in The States.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Definitely.

是的。

Yeah.

再讲一个。

Here's another one.

主管澄清了下周要裁员的传言。

The supervisor debunked the rumor that layoffs were going to happen next week.

那我们到底想表达什么？

So what are we saying here?

主管做了什么？

What did the supervisor do?

对。

Yeah.

他或她 basically 就说，别信。

He basically he or she basically said, okay.

这事儿不属实。

It's not true.

确实有这个传言，但传言是错的。

There is a rumor, but the rumor is incorrect.

下周不会裁员。

There are no layoffs on

下个星期。

the next.

某种程度上，他说那是假的。

In some way and said that it was false.

那还有别的说法吗？

Or what's another?

我给你看个东西，能彻底纠正你对家庭教育的误解。

I'm gonna show you something that will debunk your prior misconceptions about homeschooling.

没错。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

家庭教育在这个国家还真是挺有意思的。

That's an interesting thing, homeschooling in this country.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

是的

Yeah.

所以你知道，有些人一听说 homeschooling 就会先入为主地评判。

So I you know, sometimes people think, oh, like, they they have judgments on homeschooling.

但那些真正让孩子在家上学的人，对此可是非常坚定的。

And then, but people who homeschool their kids, they feel really strongly about it.

没错，挺有意思的现象。

Right, Interesting stuff.

这还正好撞上了 Instagram 的时代，对吧？

And this is all colliding with the Instagram age, Right?

现在大家动不动就把自己觉得对的东西说出来，根本不管有没有科学依据。

Where we have people kind of just saying what they think is true, whether it's based in any science.

他们就爱用那些听着特别有分量的词儿。

They just use certain phrases that feel heavier.

没错。

Right.

现在网上假新闻到处都是。

And so there is fake news out there everywhere.

这事儿挺难搞的。

It's tricky.

外面的世界真是乱七八糟啊，米歇尔。

You gotta it's it's crazy out there, Michelle.

外面的世界真是乱七八糟。

It's crazy out there.

确实如此。

It is.

确实如此。

It is.

那还有别的例子吗？

Or what's another one?

那位教授通过讲解历史，驳斥了那个十九世纪流传的谬论。

The professor debunked the myth from the eighteen hundreds by explaining the history to the class.

对。

Mhmm.

好的。

Okay.

所以当你掌握更多信息时，或许就能更好地澄清某些误解。

So when you have more context, maybe you can debunk certain myths a bit better.

是吧？

Right?

是的。

Mhmm.

再举一个。

Or one more.

记者发布了一则令人震惊的报道，驳斥了学校系统运行良好的说法。

The reporter put out a shocking story debunking the idea that the school system was doing well.

对。

Mhmm.

很好。

Good.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

是的。

Yes.

琳赛，你这辈子有没有遇到过需要澄清的误解？

Lindsay, have you ever had to debunk anything in your life

在工作里？

at work?

这问题有点难答。

That's a tricky one.

我知道。

I know.

我不确定。

I don't know.

我觉得，当我们把‘连接’定为All Ears English的核心价值时，感觉整个行业更偏向于追求正确、追求完美，总想着不能出错，但我们相信还有更高的东西。

I I feel like I mean, when we set our our highest value here at All Ears English as connection, I feel like maybe the industry was more in a mindset of being correct, being perfect, focusing on being correct, but we believe that there's something higher.

这并不是完全一回事。

It's not exactly the same thing.

但我想不出什么具体的例子。

But I don't have any good examples.

Michelle，你有没有遇到过什么情况？

Michelle, do you have any anything?

新闻里确实有些事情，是的。

There are certain there are certain things in the news Yeah.

你知道的，有时候这些话题会冒出来，你会跟家人聊起它们。

You know, that will come out where, you know, where you will talk about them with family or something like that.

尤其是在政治话题上，大家说得热火朝天，你突然意识到：等等，这不对。

And you're in in you know, there's a lot of, you know, political discussion and you say, wait a second, but that's not true.

你是在哪儿听说的吧。

Like, you heard that somewhere.

可能是网上看到的，但那根本不是靠谱的来源。

Maybe you heard that online and that wasn't a valid source.

哦，原来是这样。

You know, oh, so

天啊。

god.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

当谈到政治、疫苗这类事情时，

When Yeah.

人们的观点很容易变得非常激烈。

It comes to politics and things with vaccines and stuff, people's perspectives, that can get into a really heated area.

参与这类讨论得小心点。

You gotta be careful to enter those conversations.

不过呢。

But yeah.

我的意思是，但还是吧。

I mean, if but yeah.

总之，这个话题我们还能多聊几句。

Anyways, we can say more about this.

对。

Yes.

我的意思是，琳赛，一个人该怎么去辟谣呢？

I mean, but Lindsay, how does someone debunk?

你拿什么去辟谣？

What are you debunking with?

嗯，通常得用证据、事实、图片、数据和视频来反驳。

Well, so you try to do it with with proof, with facts, images, numbers, videos.

但我觉得，在现在这个假新闻盛行的时代

But I feel like nowadays in kind of this fake news era

对啊

Mhmm.

我们不一定总是愿意听事实，也不是每个人都信任事实。

We don't necessarily listen to facts or trust facts all the time or not everyone does.

所以我也说不准。

So I don't know.

你该怎么做到呢，米歇尔？

How do you do it, Michelle?

我的意思是，没错，你就该这么干。

I mean, yeah, that's how you should do it.

但我一直在想，现在我上网时也会看到一些视频，明明能看出是假的。

But I wonder, even now, I'll see things coming up online for me where I'm watching a video of something and I can tell that it's not real.

当然了。

Yeah, sure.

所以这就是新闻未来走向和人工智能带来的可怕之处，真的让人担忧。就现在，我还能看出些破绽，比如看个视频，心里会想：等等，这人看起来不太对劲。

So that's the scary part about where the news is heading and with AI and things that that's just actually frightening because something, I mean right now I still think it's a little glitchy where you're watching something and you're like wait a second that doesn't look like her.

那根本不是本人，对吧。

That's not the real person, right.

是啊，这我也说不准。

Yeah, that's a I don't know.

根本无从分辨。

There's no way.

但再过几年，甚至更早，可能就越来越难分辨了，我们得格外小心。

But in a few years or even sooner, you know, it might get harder to tell and we have to be really careful.

对。

Yeah.

别担心，各位。

Don't worry, guys.

这儿才是真实的我们。

This is the real us right here.

对。

Yes.

没错。

Yes.

是的。

Yeah.

确实如此。

It's true.

确实如此。

It's true.

是的。

Yeah.

再过几年，我的意思是，情况可能会大不一样，米歇尔，AI的发展实在太快了。

I just a few years from now, I mean, things could I mean, AI is just moving so incredibly fast, Michelle.

是的。

Yeah.

所以一年后，我们也不知道会处在什么情况。

So a year from now, we don't know where we'll be.

确实如此。

It's it's true.

对。

Yeah.

太不可思议了。

It's wild.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

所以说到‘辟谣’，我们也不总是一遍遍说‘辟谣、辟谣’吧。

So other ways we might say debunk, we don't want to always go around saying debunk, debunk, debunk.

我们可以说‘证伪’。

We could say disprove.

对吧？

Right?

教授通过展示她三年前记在书里的图表，证伪了那份报告。

The professor disproved the report by showing the graph she had recorded in her book three years ago.

好的。

Okay.

对的。

Mhmm.

没错。

Mhmm.

或者用‘揭露’。

Or expose.

对吧？

Right?

所以她是把真相给揭出来了。

So like, she exposed the truth.

对吧？

Right?

这么说的话，更像是把隐藏的东西给挖出来。

So that's more like to uncover.

是的。

Yeah.

她分享了自己拍下的那对夫妇在一起的照片。

By sharing pictures she had taken of the couple together.

没错。

Yes.

揭露、挖出、把以前没人知道的信息全给放出来了。

Expose uncover, unleash the information that no one knew about before.

对吧？

Right?

他们贬低科学家，还把记者带到实验室，当面指出她哪里错了，以此否定她的说法。

Discredit the scientists, discredited the reporter's claim by bringing her to the lab and showing her exactly why she was wrong.

所以大体上差不多，但不是完全一样。

So all in the same ballpark, not exactly the same.

对。

Right.

有些细微的差别。

Some some minor differences.

是的。

Yeah.

那我们来角色扮演一下。

So let's do a role play.

你和我都是记者，正在讨论即将曝光的一条新闻。

Here, you and I are reporters talking about a story that we're about to break.

我特别想当一名调查记者，感觉在另一个平行人生里，我就会这么做。

I would love to be I feel like in an alternate life, I would like to be, like, an investigative reporter.

要是我更注重细节的话，我觉得会更

If I were better at details, think it'd

你知道的。

you know?

是的。

Yeah.

没错，这确实会很有趣。

Definitely, it would be it would be interesting.

另外，我还想提一个，之前稍微提到过，就是去证明某人是对是错，反驳对方也可能是一个方向。

Also, I just wanna bring up one more, which I kinda touched on earlier, which was to prove someone wrong or right to disprove could also be another one.

所以这里头内容挺多的，不过好吧，来吧

So there's a lot here, but all right, here

行了。

we All right.

哇。

Wow.

这太重要了。

This is huge.

好吧。

All right.

如果我们真想揭露真相，就得有策略地行动。

We need to be strategic about this if we really want to expose the truth.

没错。

Right.

我们必须有确凿的证据，才能驳斥那些说法。

We need proof in order to discredit the claims that came out.

我们会一一驳倒他们说的每一句话。

We will debunk everything they said.

好的。

Okay.

行了。

Alright.

很好。

Good.

所以我们现在真的在揭露真相。

So we're really here we are exposing the truth.

揭露真相。

Exposing the truth.

你之前说，如果我们真想揭露真相，就得讲究策略，也就是让事实大白于天下。

You said we need to be strategic about this if we really want to expose the truth, meaning bring light to the facts.

对。

Yes.

然后你说，没错。

And then you said, right.

我们需要证据，才能驳斥那些已经出来的说法。

We need to we need proof in order to discredit the claims that came out.

对。

Mhmm.

然后你说，我们要彻底驳斥他们所说的一切。

And then you said, we will debunk everything they said.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

And yeah.

我非常钦佩那些能深入挖掘这些故事真相的调查记者。

And I really admire and respect investigative reporters that get to the bottom of these stories.

我们离不开他们。

We need them.

但在美国，这类调查报道的经费现在正在减少。

But in The US, they're getting a little less funded now.

就是调查性报道。

Like, investigative reporting.

我们以前在节目里也聊过这个。

We've talked about this on the show before.