AEE 2680：对话辅导第三部分：需要调整方向吗？

这里是《全耳英语》播客，第2680期。

This is an All Ears English Podcast episode twenty six eighty.

对话指导第三部分。

Conversation coaching part three.

需要转换话题吗？

Need to pivot?

欢迎收听《全耳英语》播客，下载量已超过两亿次。

Welcome to the All Ears English Podcast downloaded more than 200,000,000 times.

你觉得自己英语卡住了吗？

Are you feeling stuck with your English?

我们会教你如何通过注重交流而非完美，变得无所畏惧、流利自如。

We'll show you how to become fearless and fluent by focusing on connection, not perfection.

由美国主持人米歇尔·卡普兰（纽约电台女孩）和奥布里·卡特（雅思达人）为您呈现，她们分别来自美国亚利桑那州和纽约市。

With your American host, Michelle Kaplan, the New York radio girl, and Aubrey Carter, the IELTS whiz, coming to you from Arizona and New York City, USA.

有时候在对话中，你会意识到是时候换个方向了。

Sometimes in a conversation, you realize it's time to change course.

你怎么才能转换话题，让对话继续下去呢？

How can you pivot to a different topic to keep the connection going?

今天在我们系列节目的第三部分里找答案吧。

Find out in part three of our series today.

好的想法需要好的表达来支撑。

Strong ideas deserve strong delivery.

如果你的英语准确但犹豫不决，你可能在不知不觉中低估了自己。

If your English is accurate but hesitant, you may be underselling yourself without even realizing it.

流利度决定了你是被理解还是被认真对待。

Fluency is the difference between being understood and being taken seriously.

我们免费的2分钟流利度测试能让你看到自己真实的英语水平。

Our free two minute fluency quiz shows you your real English level.

看看你是B1、B2还是C1水平。

Find out if it's b one, b two, or c one.

而且，这个测试还会根据你的水平告诉你下一步该怎么做。

Plus, the quiz shows you exactly what to do next based on your level.

现在就上allearsenglish.com/fluencyscore做测验吧。

Take the quiz now at allearsenglish.com/fluencyscore.

再说一遍，去allearsenglish.com/fluencyscore。

One more time, go to allearsenglish.com/fluencyscore.

Jill，欢迎来到我们对话辅导系列的第三部分。

Jill, welcome to part three of our conversation coaching series.

谢谢。

Thank you.

谢谢。

Thank you.

所以，各位，如果你们错过了这个系列的任何一集，请听到最后，我们会分享集数。

So guys, if you missed any of this series, stay to the end and we'll share episode numbers.

而且不按顺序听也完全没问题，所以不用担心。

And it's definitely okay to listen out of order, so don't worry about that.

所以一定要听，我们会给你们那些集数。

So definitely listen and we'll give you those numbers.

是的，第一部分是关于如何提升闲聊技巧的。

Yes, and part one was about improving your small talk.

第二部分是关于如何让对话继续下去，但今天我们讨论的是当你需要转换话题时该怎么办。

Part two was about keeping the conversation going, but today we are talking about what to do if you need to pivot.

也许话题已经聊得差不多了，或者出现了有争议的内容，你能感觉到需要换个话题，我们都遇到过这种情况，你会怎么做呢？

Maybe the topic has run its course or something controversial comes up and you can tell we need to change the subject, we have all been there, what do you do?

今天我们分享一些策略和表达，帮助你判断何时该转换话题以及如何转换。

Today we are sharing strategies and phrases that can help you know when to pivot and how to do it.

让我们来听听这一集吧。

Let's hear the episode.

你好，Lindsay。

Hello, Lindsay.

你好吗？

How are you?

我今天状态不错，Aubrey。

I'm doing good today, Aubrey.

你今天过得怎么样？

How's everything in your world today?

非常好。

Excellent.

今天我想先问一个问题。

I have a question to start us out today.

好的。

Okay.

你喜欢和朋友聊那些有争议、容易引发分歧的话题吗？

Do you enjoy chatting with friends about polarizing topics, divisive topics?

我觉得这得看是哪个朋友。

I think it depends on the friend.

很大程度上取决于我在和谁聊。

Very much Depends on who I'm talking to.

有些人能把自我和话题分开，不带个人情绪。

Some people are good at separating themselves and kind of their egos from the topic.

我喜欢这种对话，因为它变得更理智、更理论化、更抽象，我特别喜欢。

I enjoy those conversations because it becomes more intellectual, more theoretical, more abstract, and I love that.

我就喜欢这类话题。

I love that kind of topic.

但当人们把问题看得很个人化时，就会很难。

But when people take things really personally, it can be hard.

真的会很难。

It can be really hard.

对。

Yeah.

哦，我同意。

Oh, I agree.

百分之百同意。

A 100%.

我也一样。

It's I'm the same.

这要看我跟谁聊。

It depends on who I'm talking to.

这取决于我们彼此对对方观点的开放程度。

It depends on how open we are to each other's opinions.

对吧？

Right?

不然的话，就只会变成争吵，那

Otherwise, it could just be contentious, which

就没什么意思了。

is not fun.

对。

Yeah.

而且，遗憾的是，我觉得现在的政治氛围已经不允许这种交流了。

And, unfortunately, I feel like now we're in a political moment where it just doesn't happen anymore.

我觉得美国很多政客都退休了或者去世了，那些曾经能跨越党派界限、真正建立友谊的人已经不在了。

I think a lot of the politicians in The US are retiring or passing away the ones that used to be able to reach across the aisle and actually have friendships.

比如乔·利伯曼，他刚去世了。

Like Joe Lieberman, he just passed away.

他是民主党人，据说和共和党的约翰·麦凯恩关系非常铁。

And he was a Democrat that apparently had a very strong friendship with John McCain, a Republican.

我觉得，遗憾的是，现在这种情况可能不会再发生了。

And I feel like, sadly, I'm not sure that that would happen now.

也许还会发生，但我们不知道。

Or maybe it does, but we don't know about it.

我们在新闻上看不到，因为这种事上不了头条。

We don't see it on the news because it doesn't catch headlines.

对。

Right.

我真希望我们能多听到这样的消息，因为我觉得，当人们跨越党派界限合作时，才能真正取得进展。

And I wish we would could hear about it more because, yeah, I think when people reach across party lines, that's when real progress is able to be made.

对吧？

Right?

我特别喜欢那种温和的心态，愿意听取各方意见，努力让事情更团结、更统一。

I I love a a sort of that moderate mindset of listening to all sides and and really trying to be more cohesive, unifying.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

今天的节目其实不是关于政治的，但想想这种影响是怎么流动的，挺有意思的。

And today's episode, it's not really about politics, but it's interesting to think which way does it flow.

是社会上的情况影响了政治，导致政客们无法跨党派建立友谊，还是反过来呢？

Does what's going on with the people in society flow up to politics where the politicians can't have those friendships across the aisle, or is it vice versa?

因为政客们没有跨党派的友谊，所以人们才变得分裂。

Because there aren't friendships across the aisle, that people are getting divided.

我也不清楚。

I don't know.

但现在确实有些不对劲。

But something's going on right now.

对。

Yeah.

这个世界。

The world.

有意思。

Interesting.

我们收到了一个很棒的问题，关于一个可能相当有争议的话题。

We got this great question about a topic that can be quite polarizing.

我们想和大家分享一些用英语讨论有争议话题的好建议。

And we wanna share with you guys some really good tips for discussing controversial topics in English.

我们最近聊过一个相关的话题，就是关于钻石的那期，对吧？

We chatted about one really recently when we talked about diamonds, right?

第2192期，关于钻石。

Episode 2,192, What About Diamonds?

如何用英语处理有争议的话题。

How to Approach Controversial Topics in English.

我们还有一个类似的问题。

And we got another question about something else similar.

如果你错过了那一期，记得往上翻去听一下，今天我们再来聊另一个有争议的话题。

Be sure to scroll up, listen to that one if you missed it, and we're diving into another controversial topic today.

对。

Yeah.

这个问题是从YouTube上来的。

And this question came in through YouTube.

顺便说一下，各位，如果你们还不知道，我们有一个YouTube频道，很多听众都在那边看我们的节目，因为你们能看到我们的视频。

And by the way, guys, if you don't know, we have a YouTube channel, and a lot of our listeners consume our show over there on YouTube because you can see us on video.

所以去看看吧。

So go and check it out.

去YouTube。

Go to YouTube.

搜索All Ears English。

Type in All Ears English.

今天就去订阅吧。

Hit subscribe today.

这是来自朱利安·埃斯特班的。

This is from Julian Esteban.

奥布里，你愿意读一下朱利安的问题吗？

Aubrey, would you like to read the question from Julian?

当然可以。

Absolutely.

你好，林赛和奥布里。

Hello, Lindsay and Aubrey.

我听这个播客已经很久了。

I've been listening to the podcast for a long time.

总是很有趣，内容也很有价值，每天都能进步。

It's always fun with valuable content to improve every day.

谢谢。

Thank you.

太棒了。

That's amazing.

我们很喜欢听你这么说。

We love to hear it.

确实。

We do.

我有个问题。

I have a question.

我不知道该怎么开启关于环境污染和气候变化的对话。

I'm not sure how to approach a conversation about environmental pollution and climate change.

我试过，但结果总是很简短。

I have tried, but it turns out to be very brief.

我想知道一些相关的词汇和常用短语，来让对话更深入。

I'd like to know some vocabulary and common phrases about this to deepen the conversation.

非常感谢。

Thank you so much.

祝你一切顺利。

Have a good one.

这个问题

Such a

问得真好。

great question.

是的。

Yes.

而且非常重要。

And so important.

我们不能不谈这些话题，但必须找到合适的方式去谈。

We can't not talk about these things, but we have to find a way to do it.

而且当你说要用另一种语言来谈时，难度就更高了，这正是我们今天为听众准备的内容。

And then when you say you're doing it in another language, it adds a level of challenge that we're here today for our listeners.

对吧，奥布里？

Right, Aubrey?

没错。

Exactly.

完全同意。

Absolutely.

而且我们确实要记住，这可能是个有争议的话题。

And we do have to keep in mind that this could be a polarizing topic.

我个人就认识不少不相信气候变化的人，他们的观点非常不同，你知道，就是各种极端的看法和意见都有。还有一些人只是没怎么读过相关的东西，不太了解，包括我自己。

I personally know quite a few people who don't believe in climate change, who have very different, you know, just lots of different extremes and opinions and And some people who just haven't read a lot about it aren't very knowledgeable, including myself.

我知道自己还有很多可以学的。

I know there's a lot that I could learn.

所以我们要记住这一点。

So we want to keep that in mind.

林赛，有争议是什么意思？

What does that mean polarizing, Lindsay?

你想想两个极端，对吧？

You think about two poles, right?

就像有北极和南极一样。

We have like the North Pole, the South Pole.

事情分得很开。

Things are very divided.

人们不在中间地带。

People are not in the middle.

他们站在一边，这就是我们节目开头聊到的。

They're on one side And the that's where we're talking about the top of the show.

现在的政治非常两极分化。

Our politics these days are very polarizing.

不幸的是，气候变化成了一个政治议题。

And, unfortunately, climate change is a political issue.

我个人希望它不是政治议题。

I personally wish it wasn't a political issue.

我希望它只是人类共同的问题。

I wish it was just a human issue.

对。

Right.

但现实就是这样。

But that's how it is.

那我们开始吧，Aubrey。

Let's get into it, Aubrey.

因为像这类话题，不管是政治、宗教、气候变化还是别的什么，如果你知道对方可能不同意，或者就是没兴趣，不管什么原因不想聊这个。

So because any topic like this, whether it's politics, religion, climate change, whatever it is, if you know the person you're talking to might disagree or just might not be interested for whatever reason doesn't want to talk about it.

那对话可能就很短，对吧？

The conversation might be brief, right?

就像这位听众注意到的，你可能就得换个话题，对吧？

Like this listener noticed, and you might just have to change the topic, right?

如果对方真的不同意或者真的没兴趣，你不能硬拉着人家聊下去。

You can't insist on making the conversation longer if the other person really disagrees or really isn't interested.

所以这是第一点。我们今天会分享一些建议，关于怎么开始对话，怎么察言观色，这样当你开启一个可能引发争议的话题时，你知道该怎么引导，或者是不是该结束对话。

So that's the first thing sort of, we're going to share some tips today about what to do, how to start the conversation and how to read the room so that when you're starting a potentially controversial conversation, you know where to take it or how if you should end it.

好的，不错。

Okay, good.

那我们首先需要知道什么？

So what do we need to know first?

奥布里，在我们开始之前，我们应该知道些什么？

What should we know, Aubrey, before we approach Yes.

这个

This

我们的第一步是要保持开放的心态，对吧？

Our first step is to be open minded, right?

如果你说话的对象可能不同意你的观点，我们就得注意用词。

If there's a chance that the person you're speaking to won't agree with your opinions, we have to be careful about the language we use.

很容易说出一些让人觉得你自以为正确、别人都是错的或者无知的话。

Really easy to say something that will give the impression that you think you're right and everyone else is wrong or ignorant.

那样的话，还没开始聊，关系就已经断了。

And that can just cut the connection off right before you even start the conversation.

对吧，Lindsay？

Right, Lindsay?

对。

Yeah.

还有，我不知道今天计划里有没有这个，但有哪些关键词会让人产生那种感觉，可能自己都没意识到？

And what would be I don't know if this is in our plan today, but what would be some keywords that would you'd be using that would be doing that, maybe not even realizing it?

我想到了像“显然”或“大家都知道”、“我们都清楚”这样的词。

I think of words like obviously or everyone knows, we all know.

或者用“我真不敢相信有人不觉得……”开头，然后说出你的观点。

Or if start with like, I can't believe anyone doesn't think, like, and then you share your opinion.

没错。

Exactly.

对。

Right.

或者“如果你认为X，那么就会这样”。

Or if you think x, then this.

对吧？

Right?

所以这些一概而论的说法，会在你毫无察觉的情况下，立刻切断彼此的联系。

So these are that sweeping could immediately shut down the connection without you even realizing it.

是吗？

Yeah?

没错。

Exactly.

所以，如果我们想就某个可能有分歧的话题进行对话，目标从一开始、在你说任何话之前，就是要保持开放的心态，包容、接纳他人的观点，这样才真正是对话，而不是说教，不是你在告诉他们应该同意什么。

So instead, the goal, if we want to have a conversation about something where someone might disagree, the goal right from the outset before you say anything is to be open minded, tolerant, inclusive of others' opinions so that it actually is a conversation and not a lecture, not you lecturing them about, you know, what you think that they should agree with.

对。

Yeah.

因为在这些极具争议的问题上，你知道，关键不在于知识。

Because it's not you know, with these really divisive issues, it's not about knowledge.

对吧？

Right?

这其实是深入探讨观点的问题，而且会变得很个人化。

It's about digging into opinions, and it gets personal.

所以光靠说教并不能让你们更接近共识。

So a lecture isn't gonna isn't going to bring you closer in agreement.

没错。

Exactly.

对吧？

Right?

所以如果你内心感觉到自己无法容忍对方的观点，这里有个好例子，比如气候变化。

So if you can feel within yourself that you're not in a position where you can be tolerant of the other side of the issue, this is a good example, think climate change.

我觉得会有很多人对这个问题立场非常坚定，以至于他们意识到自己无法进行建设性的、尊重的对话，无法在不同意对方观点的情况下倾听，而且会变得非常激动。

I think there would be a lot of people who feel so strongly one way or the other that they recognize, like, I can't have a constructive conversation, a respectful conversation where I can listen to another opinion without disagreeing them and getting really passionate.

如果是这样，那这个话题可能就要避开。

If so, this might be a topic to avoid.

哦，那当然。

Oh, for sure.

当然。

For sure.

是的。

Yes.

我很喜欢这个。

I love that.

然后第二点是察言观色。

And then number two is read the room.

就像这个说法。

Like this expression.

察言观色。

Read the room.

这是什么意思呢？当我们说察言观色的时候，我们

What does that mean when we When read the we

其实是在注意对方的肢体语言，以及他们所说的话。

write, we're really paying attention to the body language as well as what's said of the people you're talking to.

而且一开始，当你提出一个像这样可能引起分歧或争议的话题时，我们会先观察一下气氛，看看对方是否愿意讨论。

And right away, when you first bring it up for something that's potentially divisive like this, potentially contentious, we read the room to see if the other person is even open to discuss it.

政治、宗教，任何有争议的话题都一样。

Same for politics, religion, anything controversial.

对。

Yeah.

比如说，你可以先这样开头，说现在很多人都是从播客获取信息的。

So for example, you might start something your what you say by saying a lot of us get our information on podcasts these days.

对吧？

Right?

然后你可以说，我最近听了一个关于气候变化的播客，挺让人大开眼界的。

So you might say, I was listening to a podcast about climate change that was pretty eye opening.

好。

Alright.

然后停下来。

And then stop.

然后我们该怎么做？

And then what do we do?

奥布里。

Aubrey.

对。

Yeah.

然后为了试探对方的态度，你要观察他们的反应。

Then so to read the room, you gauge their reaction.

对吧？

Right?

如果反应是积极的，他们看起来有兴趣，那你就可以继续讲一个有趣的事实。

If it's positive and they seem interested, then you might continue with an interesting fact.

这样你就能看出来。

So you will be able to see.

如果他们和你眼神接触，根据他们的语气，你要观察他们所有的反应，读懂他们的肢体语言。

If they meet eye contact, depending on their tone of voice, you read all of their reactions, read their body language.

他们是不是在退缩，像是‘哎呀，这个话题让我不太舒服’？

Are they closing in like, Oh, I don't feel comfortable talking about this.

还是他们有兴趣继续聊下去？

Or are they interested in opening up?

如果反应是积极的，他们感兴趣，你可能会说，比如，‘可再生能源是通往更安全未来的关键。’

And if it's positive, they're interested, you might say, you know, Oh, it said renewable energy is the key to a safer future.

你觉得呢？

What do you think about that?

所以你就是分享一个你学到的细节，问问他们的看法，然后再观察他们的反应。

So you're like sharing one detail you learned, asking their opinion, and then you again gauge their reaction.

好的。

Okay.

那我想知道，如果对方眼神往下看，你会怎么处理？

And then I'm interested in what if you get kind of the downward eye contact.

你在观察气氛时，如果发现他们不同意或者不想聊这个话题，你会收到这样的信号。

You get a signal when you read the room that they're not in agreement with you or they don't wanna talk about it.

那你接下来会怎么做？

What would you do then?

你会换个话题吗？

Would you pivot?

会的。

Yes.

这就是我喜欢用这个开头的原因，我之前在播客里也推荐过，就是说‘我最近听了一个关于某某话题的播客’，因为这样很容易转换话题。

And this is where I love starting it with, and I I know I've recommended this on the on the podcast before, but to start it with, I was listening to a podcast about blank because it's a very easy pivot.

如果他们明显不感兴趣，只是敷衍一下，或者就是那种态度，你就可以直接说：‘那你呢？’

If they are clearly not interested and they just are kinda like, or something, like they're clearly not interested, you could just say, What about you?

你最近有没有听过什么有趣的播客？

Have you heard any interesting podcasts lately?

这样你就可以让他们通过分享自己听过的播客内容，完全改变话题。

And you're opening them to totally change the subject by sharing something they've listened to on a podcast.

或者如果他们不听播客，那他们平时看什么电视节目吗？

Or if they don't listen to podcasts, what do they you know, do they watch TV?

换个话题。

Change the subject.

没问题。

No problem.

你可以和别人聊这个。

You can chat with about this with someone else.

所以今天这期节目是关于人际连接的。

So this is a connection episode today.

对吧？

Right?

因为我们这期有点像政治或者转折话题。

Because we're show it's kinda like politics or pivot.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Right.

你想跟我聊聊这个话题吗？

Do you wanna talk about this with me?

我们能聊这个吗，还是我得换个话题？我很喜欢播客这个概念，Aubrey，它就是一种媒介。

Can we have this conversation, or do I need to pivot to and I love the podcast concept, Aubrey, where it's just a medium.

对吧？

Right?

它是一种消费方式。

It's a way of consuming.

可以是电视节目。

It could be TV shows.

我在看电影。

I'm watching a movie.

你最近还看了什么别的电影？

What other movies have you watched lately?

这是个可以灵活转换的话题开场白。

It's a pivotable and question opener.

对吧？

Right?

这是一种我们可以转换话题的方式。

It's a way we could move.

我喜欢这个。

I like that.

没错。

Exactly.

这样可以避免那种尴尬，如果你提起一个话题，而对方明显不想聊，可能会有一个尴尬的、生硬的过渡到别的话题。

It avoids that potential awkwardness if you broach a topic and they clearly don't wanna talk about it, that there might be sort of an awkward choppy transition to something else.

这个不会。

This is not that.

这很简单，就像‘你呢？’

It's a very easy, like, what about you?

你喜欢什么播客？

What podcast do you love?

没问题。

No problem.

这个想法考虑得很周全。

That's pretty well thought out.

而且有时候我们真的进入这些对话时，确实需要这个。

And sometimes when we do go into these conversations, we have to have that.

几乎有点像提前打好草稿一样。

It's almost prescripted a little bit.

我们需要一些备用招数。后备方案是

We need to have some tricks up our The backup is

他们不想谈这个话题。

they don't wanna talk about it.

因为你说的是可能很重要的关系。

Because you're talking about relationships that could really matter.

这些人不一定都是陌生人。

These aren't necessarily strangers.

可能是姐夫、嫂子之类的。

This could be a brother-in-law, sister-in-law.

也可能是认识重要工作关系的人。

It could be someone who knows an important work contact.

对吧？

Right?

这些可能是你希望维护好的重要关系。

These could be important relationships you wanna make sure you maintain.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Right.

流利不是说要说得很完美。

Fluency doesn't mean speaking perfectly.

而是说没有紧张感，轻松自如地说话，并且能建立连接，不用在脑子里翻译，也不用反复琢磨。

It means speaking without tension, with ease, and in a way that will build connection, without translating, without second guessing.

如果英语对你来说还是感觉很吃力，你需要的是如何进步的方法，而不是更多的努力。

If English still feels heavy for you, you need clarity on how to get better, not more effort.

我们免费的2分钟流利度测试能帮你了解你现在的英语需要什么。

Our free two minute fluency quiz helps you understand what your English needs right now.

而且你还能知道你的英语水平。

Plus you get your English level.

今天就去 allearsenglish.com/fluencyscore 测试吧。

Take it today at allearsenglish.com/fluencyscore.

网址是 allearsenglish.com/fluencyscore。

That's allearsenglish.com/fluencyscore.

好的。

Okay.

我们有一些很好的方法来调整方向。

So we've got some really good ideas on how to pivot.

那第三点是什么呢？

Then what would be number three?

那第三个建议是什么呢？

What would be the third tip?

对。

Yes.

所以，如果对方真的感兴趣，想聊这个话题，但你突然发现自己其实对这方面一无所知，那可就尴尬了。

So if it turns out someone is interested and wants to have this conversation, it can be a sort of a mistake if you all of a sudden realize, actually don't really know anything about this.

所以第三条就是要有备而来。

So number three is just to be informed.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

如果你听过播客，或者读过几篇文章，那你就有一些有趣的内容可以聊了。

If you've listened to a podcast, read a couple articles, then you'll have some interesting things to say.

当然，也别变成那种只顾自己说话的人。

And of course, don't be that me monster.

多问问题，了解他们的看法。

Ask questions, find out about their opinion.

就像你说的，Lindsay，这不是在讲课。

Make like you said, Lindsay, it's not a lecture.

你要去了解他们的观点，或者深入探讨，因为你的目标是了解这个你在乎的人，想更了解的人，去听听他们的想法。

You're finding out their opinion or really diving deep too because your goal is to find out about this person that you care about, know about, want to know more about, find out their opinion.

对。

Yeah.

而且不仅要见多识广，还要愿意接受别人的纠正。

And be open to not just being well informed, but being willing to be corrected.

也许要确保你的信息来自可靠的来源。

Maybe make sure your information's coming from a trustworthy source.

要不断核实你的信息来源。

Always be validating your sources.

要始终保持开放，学习新信息。

Always be open to learning new information.

对吧？

Right?

我觉得这也是我们想要的一点，没错，就是这样。

I think that's another piece that we want Exactly, to make yes.

好的。

Okay.

所以我们想在这里分享几个角色扮演的例子，因为我们已经提到过，当你开始这种对话时，可能会有两种不同的走向。

So we want to share a couple of role plays here, because we've shared that these, this, when you start this conversation, it can go two different ways.

他们可能不感兴趣。

They might be uninterested.

他们可能感兴趣。

They might be interested.

那我们就来分享这两个角色扮演吧。

So let's share both role plays.

首先，奥布里、林赛和我是好朋友，我们在一起喝咖啡，我们要展示一下如果对方对这个话题不感兴趣会是什么样子。

First, Aubrey, Lindsay and I are good friends here getting a coffee together, and we're gonna share what it looks like if someone is not interested in the topic.

好的。

All right.

所以听起来这里我们要看到一个转折。

So it sounds like here we're gonna see a pivot.

对吧？

Right?

我们会看到一个转折。

We're gonna see a Yes.

在对话中会看到转折吗？

Pivot gonna see in the a conversation?

对。

Right.

那我们开始吧。

Let's do it.

走起。

Here we go.

好的。

Alright.

对了，我最近听了一个关于气候变化的播客，挺让人大开眼界的。

So hey, I was listening to a podcast about climate change that was pretty eye opening.

哦，是吗？

Oh, uh-huh.

你呢？

What about you?

你最近有没有听什么有趣的播客？

Have you listened to any interesting podcasts lately?

有啊，我最近发现了一个叫《Counterclock》的真实犯罪播客，我超喜欢。

Yes, I just discovered a true crime podcast called Counterclock that I love.

真的，这个太棒了。

Okay, this is so good.

对吧？

Way, right?

这种事我以前也遇到过，对吧？

This has happened to me before, right?

因为我喜欢聊一些有意思的争议话题，但我会小心观察对方是不是感兴趣。

Because I love talking about interesting controversial issues, but like I'm careful to gauge like are they interested?

如果不感兴趣，就赶紧换个话题，聊点别的。

If not quick pivot away, let's talk about something else.

我不想让气氛变得尴尬。

I don't want it to be uncomfortable.

对。

Yeah.

我也有同感。

I resonate with this.

我确实看到了明显的不同，这不是好或坏的问题。

I've seen a real difference, and it's not better or worse.

只是不一样而已。

It's just different.

但我在东海岸的社交圈里，比如新英格兰，像波士顿、剑桥、马萨诸塞州这种学术氛围很重的地方，和丹佛相比，我发现人们并不是说信这个或者不信那个。

But in my social interactions on the East Coast, in New England, in a city like Boston, Cambridge, Massachusetts, heavy academic town versus Denver, I've seen that there's less it's not that people believe in this or don't believe in that.

这不是政治问题。

It's not political.

而是大家似乎对这些话题的兴趣没那么大。

It's that there seems to be less interest in talking about these these issues.

而且聊得很多的是滑雪，这当然很好。

And there's a lot of talk about skiing, which is great.

有时候我会觉得有点无聊。

Sometimes I get a little bored.

但我也得明白，比如这个人，我们就在这个层面上有共鸣。

But then I just have to know, like, this particular person, we're gonna relate on this level.

这也没关系。

And that has to be okay.

我会去找那些能让我在另一天聊更大、更抽象话题的朋友。

And I'm gonna seek out friends where I can talk about bigger issues in a more abstract way another day.

对吧？

Right?

所以并不总是那种，哦，这会是敏感话题，然后我们就要互相攻击。

So it's not always just, oh, this is gonna be a hot button issue, and we're gonna be attacking each other.

也许只是我们在那个层面上没有共鸣。

Maybe it's just we don't relate on that level.

我们在那个层面上没有连接。

We don't connect on that level.

对吧？

Right?

而且，想想在西部生活了很长时间，也真的很有意思。

And it's also really interesting to think about having lived a long time in the West.

我发现，一旦我真的深入了解一个人，他们其实是有兴趣的。

I have found that once I really get deep and get to know someone well, they are interested.

他们也在读相关的资料。

They are reading about it.