AEE 2684：被经典文学吓到？3个技巧帮你克服，嘉宾Rebecca Schinsky

这里是《全耳英语》播客，第2684期。

This is an All Ears English podcast episode twenty six eighty four.

被经典文学吓到了？丽贝卡·辛斯基给你三个小建议，帮你克服这种心理。

Intimidated by classic literature, three tips to overcome it with Rebecca Schinsky.

欢迎收听《全耳英语》播客，下载量已超过两亿次。

Welcome to the All Ears English podcast downloaded more than 200,000,000 times.

我们相信连接，而非完美。今天的主持人是来自美国亚利桑那州的奥布里·卡特，以及特邀嘉宾。

We believe in connection, not perfection, with your American host, Aubrey Carter, and today's featured guest coming to you from Arizona, USA.

想要每周通过邮件收到文字稿，请访问 allearsenglish.com/subscribe。

And to get your transcripts delivered by email every week, go to allearsenglish.com forward slash subscribe.

你有没有想过，自己是否准备好阅读英文经典文学了？

Do you wonder if you're ready to read classic literature in English?

我们在这里告诉你，你完全可以。

We're here to show you that you are.

来自《从零到阅读达人》播客的丽贝卡·辛斯基今天加入我们，分享三个阅读并爱上经典文学的小技巧。

Rebecca Schinsky from the Zero to Well Read Podcast joins us today to share three tips for reading and loving the classics.

大家好，欢迎。

Hello, everyone, welcome.

今天我非常激动地向大家介绍我们的嘉宾，丽贝卡·辛斯基。

I'm so excited to introduce you to our guest today, Rebecca Schinsky.

你好，丽贝卡，你最近怎么样？

Hello Rebecca, how are you?

嗨，我很好。

Hi, I'm wonderful.

非常感谢你邀请我。

Thanks so much for having me.

能来这里我很高兴。

I'm thrilled to be here.

是的，这真的很令人兴奋。

Yes, this is very exciting.

我要简单介绍一下丽贝卡，但我想让大家知道，我对此非常激动，因为我最近重新燃起了对文学的热爱。

I'm gonna give a little bio here for Rebecca, but I wanna let everyone know I am thrilled about this because I have found this newfound love for literature.

大家都知道我是科幻小说读者，我也喜欢犯罪悬疑，但托妮·莫里森是我重新爱上文学的起点，这多亏了丽贝卡的播客，我马上就会讲到。

I'm a sci fi reader as you guys know and I love crime mysteries, but, Toni Morrison was my gateway back into literature and it's because of Rebecca's podcast, which I'm going to tell you about.

我非常激动，希望今天所有收听的朋友都能得到一些建议，了解为什么以及如何也能阅读优秀的英语文学作品。

I am so excited for everyone out there listening to get some tips today about why and how you also can be reading great English literature.

当然，我们也可以读那些《你》系列小说、科幻小说，任何你觉得读起来有趣的书都可以。

Of course, we can also read those You novels, sci fi, anything that's fun for you to read.

但如果你一直觉得文学让人望而生畏，今天的节目会帮你明白，你不必害怕，无论你水平如何，文学对每个人都是开放的。

But if you have felt intimidated by literature today, today's episode is going to help you see that you shouldn't be right that it is accessible for everyone at your level whoever's listening.

丽贝卡，让我先介绍一下你。

Rebecca, let me first introduce you.

丽贝卡从2008年起就活跃在书友圈互联网上。

Rebecca has been working on the bookish Internet since 2008.

她是Riot New Media Group的办公室主任，这家公司是Book Riot的母公司，她还共同主持Zero to Well Read和Book Riot播客。

She is chief of staff at Riot New Media Group, which is home of Book Riot and co hosts Zero to Well Read and the Book Riot Podcast.

Zero to Well Read是我比较熟悉的那个播客。

So Zero to Well Read is the podcast that I am more familiar with.

那么，丽贝卡，跟我讲讲那方面的情况吧。

So Rebecca, tell me a little bit about that.

你是和一位搭档一起做的，你们会分享很多细节，还会拆解那些很多人可能觉得难读的书，对吧？

You do it with a co host and you're sharing details and sort of a breakdown of books that a lot of people might consider difficult, right?

是的，这正是这个播客的初衷。

Yes, that's exactly the idea behind the podcast.

我们做Book Riot已经快十五年了，从听众和读者那里听到最多的就是，他们想读那些经典的书、流行的书、在文化中影响深远的书。

We've been running Book Riot Riot now for almost fifteen years and one of the things that we've heard the most from listeners and readers is that they want to access classic books, the books that are popular, books that make a big difference in our culture.

但很多人会望而生畏，或者如果有朋友能一起读，他们就会去读。

But often people are intimidated or they would do it if they had one friend that would read the book with them.

但有时候，就像我们刚才私下聊的，很难找到那样的人。

But sometimes as we were just talking about off mic, it's hard to find that person.

所以我们想做一档节目，让这些精彩又重要的书变得人人都能读。

And so we wanted to make a show that made these wonderful and important books accessible to people.

每一集我们都会深入探讨一本经典，或者一个当代的重大文化现象。

So each episode we dive into a classic or something that's a big contemporary phenomenon.

我们会告诉你这本书讲的是什么，为什么重要，作者是谁，读起来是什么感觉，有哪些经典语录，还有一些有趣的背景故事和冷知识，就像是英语课和读书俱乐部的结合体。

And we tell you what it's about and why it's important, who wrote it, what it feels like to read it, what some of the notable quotes are any fun history and trivia, and kind of a mix of English class and book club.

我们尽量让节目保持有趣，让你觉得自己可以拿起这些书来读，因为我们的理念就是，你不必非得选一门特别的课程才能接触伟大的文学作品。

And we try to keep it really fun and make you feel like you can pick these books up because that's the idea you shouldn't have to be enrolled in a special course to be able to engage with great literature

没错，这正是我最喜欢这个节目的地方。

exactly, and that is what I love about it so much.

如果你一直在听我们的播客，可能知道我之前开始尝试读西班牙语的书。

For those of you who've been listening to the podcast for awhile, it might know when I started trying to read books in Spanish.

我一开始选了西班牙语版的《堂吉诃德》，当时真是雄心勃勃。

I started with Don Quixote in Spanish and I ambitious.

结果发现太不自量力了，当然我很快就放弃了，而且就像你说的，我也没有一个读书俱乐部。

It was far too ambitious and of course I gave up right away, but I also didn't have like you said a book club.

没有课程。

Didn't have a class.

完全靠自己。

Was on my own.

全都是我不熟悉的高难度词汇，而且《堂吉诃德》就算用英语读都很难，所以我完全没准备好，但后来我开始读西班牙语版的《一个叫奥托的男人》，那本书容易读多了。

All of this extremely difficult vocabulary that I wasn't familiar with and Don Quixote is difficult in English, So it was well out of, I just wasn't prepared but then I started reading A Man Called Otto in Spanish and it was so much more accessible.

我特别喜欢。

I loved it.

那本书让人爱不释手，我这才意识到，我应该坚持读一些更简单的书。现在我没再回头去尝试读那些真正优秀的法语和西班牙语文学作品，我知道很多听众也跟我一样，都在坚持读那些更容易、更易读的书，我也知道自己错过了很多伟大的文学作品，就像听众们错过了英语里的优秀作品一样。

It was a page turner and I realized, oh I should be trying sticking with easier books and now I have not gone back and tried to read really excellent literature in French and Spanish and I know that a lot of our listeners are in that same boat where we're sort of sticking with what is easier, what is more accessible and I know I'm missing out on a lot of great literature just like our listeners are missing out on amazing literature in English.

有些听众可能正在尝试读那些文学作品，但就像你说的，丽贝卡，如果没有读书会、没有课程，或者至少没有朋友可以一起聊，那会让人感到非常孤独和孤立。

Some of you out there listening might, might be trying to read that literature but like you said Rebecca, without a book club or a class or at least a friend to chat about it with, it's very sort of lonely and isolating.

那一点都不好玩。

That's not fun.

所以我非常喜欢你们的播客。

So I love that about your podcast.

我很期待今天大家能听到的那些建议。

I'm excited for the tips you guys are going to hear today.

丽贝卡，你直接给我们听众推荐一个起点吧，从哪里开始比较好？

And Rebecca, right off the bat, can you give a recommendation for our listeners of where to start?

哪本经典文学作品是比较容易读的？

What is a book that is classic literature that would be pretty accessible?

我会推荐海明威的《老人与海》。

I would start with The Old Man and the Sea by Ernest Hemingway.

它介于短篇小说和长篇小说之间。

It sits in the zone between short story and novel.

大概85页，所以读起来不会花太多时间。

It's about 85 pages long, so not a big commitment.

海明威以写短句和直白的语言著称。

Hemingway was famous for writing very short sentences, very direct language.

所以这本书能很好地打破你那种认为经典文学一定语言难懂、句子结构复杂的想法。

So it's a wonderful way to challenge any preconceived notions you have that classic literature must have difficult languages or just impossible sentence structure.

一切都非常直白。

Everything is very straightforward.

他没写出来的部分和他写出来的部分一样重要。

What he chooses not to say is just as important as what he says.

海明威能用寥寥数语传达出深厚的情感，这正是他为人称道的地方。

And the depth of feeling that Hemingway is able to convey in just a few words is really what he's known for.

所以，你可以在85页里完整体验到这一切，我觉得任何听我们节目的人都能轻松读懂。

So you get that whole experience in 85 pages that I think really anyone who's listening to this would be able to approach.

你不需要任何特别的背景知识。

You don't need any special background knowledge.

它没有复杂的词汇，但却是美国文学中最重要的作品之一。

It doesn't have any complex vocabulary, but it is one of the most important books in American literature.

我很喜欢这个推荐。

I love that recommendation.

那是我高中AP英语课上读的第一本书，我觉得它对我来说是文学入门的好起点，而且基于你提到的那些理由，对我们所有听众来说也会是这样。

That's the first one that I read in an AP English class in high school and I think it was such a great introduction for me to literature and will be to everyone of our listeners for all of the reasons you shared.

所以，没错，从《老人与海》开始，而且这本书很有意思。

So yes, start with The Old Man in the Sea and it's interesting.

我觉得，比起你在书店或图书馆随手拿起的普通书，所有的文学作品你都会想找个人聊聊。

All literature, I think more than the average book that you would just grab at the bookstore or the library, you are going to want to talk about it with someone.

所以我很期待你分享你的播客，Rebecca，也期待大家有机会听到有人谈论这些书，因为难点就在于，你不会只是跟别人说“读读这本书吧”。

So I'm excited for you to share your podcast Rebecca and for everyone out there to have a chance to listen to someone talk about, to talk about, you know, talk about these books with someone because that's what's difficult is you're not going to tell just tell someone read this book.

我很喜欢。

Loved it.

你会想跟别人聊聊书里的主题，聊聊你发现的东西。

You're going to want to talk to someone about the themes about what you discovered about.

知道这些书里有很多非常发人深省、让人大开眼界的内容。

Know a lot of the things that are very eye opening and thought provoking in these books.

没错。

That's right.

好了，我们直接进入正题，聊聊那些建议吧。因为如果我们已经读了《老人与海》，我觉得这些建议对那本书还是很有用的。

Alright, let's yes, let's jump in with the tips because if so, once we know we read the old man in the sea, I think these tips will still be, know, useful for that.

但当你接着读托妮·莫里森，或者其他更沉重、更难懂的作者时，你确实需要一些策略，才能坚持读完并理解这些书。

But then as you move to Toni Morrison to other authors that are weightier and difficult to understand, you do need strategies to be able to stick with these books and understand them.

那我们就开始聊聊如何阅读英语文学的一些建议吧。

So let's dive in with some tips about how to approach literature in English.

对，我觉得当你读这些比较老或者比较难的书时，先找一本有导言的版本。

Right, I would say start when you're looking at these older or more difficult books by looking for an introduction that are looking for an edition that has an introduction.

在开始读之前，先读一下那个导言。

Read that introduction before you jump into the book.

它会让你知道读的时候该注意什么，什么可能比较重要，以及怎么应对不熟悉的话题或语言。

It will give you a sense of what to look for as you're reading, what might be important, how to navigate unfamiliar topics or language.

如果书比较老，没有带导言的版本，那就去看看维基百科或者搜一下，先了解一下你要读的内容。

If a book is older and it doesn't have an edition that has an introduction, look at the Wikipedia page or do a Google to help you get grounded in what you're stepping into.

其实，直接一头扎进去自己摸索并不会加分。

Like, there are no bonus points for just jumping in cold and trying to figure it out yourself.

尽量给自己多找一些信息。

Give yourself as much information as possible.

而且，为了这个目的，也不用担心剧透。

And I also to that end, don't worry about spoilers.

这些书大部分，即使你知道接下来会发生什么情节，也不会影响你体验其中的语言和故事展开。

Most of these books, even if you know what a plot point is that's coming, it won't change the experience of that language and the world unfolding for you.

所以真的要给自己足够的信息，让自己能读进去。

So really give yourself the information that you need to get

这个主意真不错。

That's such a great idea.

我经常读书的时候会想，要是之前能有个读书会，大家聊聊这本书，把所有相关的信息都查一遍，给自己尽可能多的背景知识，这样读的时候就能更熟悉内容了。

I've often read books and wished I could have sort of a book club before where we chat about and look up everything there is to know about the book, give ourselves as much information as we can so that then we're reading and we're familiar with what is happening.

我们就能理解得更多。

We understand a lot more.

不然的话，很容易就放弃了。

Otherwise, it's easy just to give up.

读了一两章，就感觉好多地方看不懂，很难坚持下去。

You get a chapter or two in and you feel like there's a lot here I'm not understanding and it's hard to stick with it.

或者就算你理解字面上的意思，可能也会想，这本书为什么重要？

Or even if you understand what's happening on the page, you might be wondering like why is this book important?

尤其是那些比较老的书。

Especially with older books.

所以回到《老人与海》，我们有一期关于这本书的零基础精读节目，大家可以听听。

And so to go back to The Old Man and the Sea, which we have a zero to well read episode about that folks can listen

对。

to.

我们会在本期节目的博客上放上链接，方便大家找到。

We'll link to that on the blog for this episode so you can find it.

那真是太好了。

That would be so helpful.

是的，你可以找到一些带有导读的版本，里面会介绍海明威的职业生涯，还有他写这个故事的时代背景，以及为什么这本书在出版时如此具有开创性。了解这些真的能帮你更好地把握故事的内容。

Yeah, you can find copies that have introductions that tell you about, you know, Hemingway's career, but also the background of the story that he was writing and why it was so groundbreaking at the time that it published and knowing that can really help you just get your arms around what what's going on in the story.

这个建议太棒了。

Love that tip.

太厉害了。

Amazing.

好，再给我们一个建议吧。

Okay, give us another another tip.

另一个建议是，当你遇到一个不认识的词时——因为这种情况我们都会遇到，即使是在读母语书籍的时候。

Another one is when you come across a term that you don't know because this will happen to all all of us even if we're reading in our native languages.

标记一下，然后继续读下去。

Market but keep going.

比如，不要在读书中途拿起手机。

Like don't pick up your phone in the middle of the book.

不要打断你的阅读节奏。

Don't interrupt your flow.

很多时候，你可以通过上下文猜出那个词的意思。

Often you're going to be able to figure out the meaning of that word by the surrounding context.

如果猜不出来，你随时可以回头查。

If not, you can always go back and look it up.

但我真的建议，做个记号，继续读，除非那个词真的严重影响了你的理解。

But I I really advocate for just make a note, keep going, unless it seems to have a really disrupted whatever is happening there.

但我觉得，你能为自己做的最好的事情，就是尽量让自己沉浸在阅读体验中。

But the best the best thing you can do for yourself, think, is try to keep yourself inside that reading experience.

我百分之百同意，而且我读托妮·莫里森的时候经常遇到这种情况。

I agree a thousand percent and this is happening to me a lot as I read Toni Morrison.

里面有很多生词。

There are a lot of words.

虽然我的词汇量不小，但还是有些词我不认识，我强迫自己不去查，继续读下去，因为很多时候我太投入情节了，想知道接下来会发生什么，好奇后面的事，不想打断自己。

Even though I have a robust vocabulary, there are still words I don't know and I'm forcing myself don't look it up, keep reading because and as often it's because I am so invested in the plot and I want to know what's happening next and I'm curious about what's going to happen that I don't want to derail myself.

所以我完全同意。

So I agree 100%.

别查那些词，继续读，因为之后再去查会很有意思，那时候你已经有上下文了。

Don't look up the words then market because it will be interesting to go later and find out now that you have the context.

你知道那个词是什么意思吗？

Do you know what it means?

查一下定义。

Look up the definition.

很有意思，但等你看完这本书再查，这样你才能一直沉浸在那些角色里。

Very interesting, but wait and do that once you're through the book so that you can stay invested in those characters.

对。

Yes.

好，那我们继续聊你的第三个建议。

Alright, let's move on to your third tip.

这些建议太棒了。

These are fantastic.

我特别期待每个听众在阅读伟大文学作品时都能用上这些建议。

I'm so excited for everyone listening to use these tips as you dive into great literature.

我最后一个建议是，如果你不是总能百分百确定发生了什么，或者觉得自己没完全理解，别以为是自己读错了。

So my last tip is don't assume that you're doing it wrong if you're not always 100% sure about what's happening, or if you feel like you're not getting it.

很多作家是故意制造这种效果的，他们想通过这种方式告诉你一些关于角色所处世界的事情，或者关于他们写作主题的一些问题。

Many writers are creating that effect on purpose, and they're trying to tell you something about the world that the characters live in or something about the issues that they're writing about.

所以就让那种感觉自然流过你吧。

So just let that feeling wash over you.

要知道，很多伟大的书，尤其是那些经典老书，其实比我们想象的要奇怪得多。

Note that many of the great books and a lot of the old great books are much, much stranger than we give them credit for.

有时候，那种不确定感正是作者想要表达的。

And sometimes that uncertainty is the author's point.

他们就是想让你有某种感受。

It's them trying to make you feel a certain way.

所以你要注意到这一点。

So note that that's happening.

之后你随时可以找朋友聊聊，或者稍后查一查，看看自己是不是真的没读懂，还是那种困惑本身就是作品的一部分。

And then you can always go and talk to a friend or look it up later and see, like, did I really not understand this or is the confusion part of it?

但尤其是刚开始读这些书的时候，托妮·莫里森就是一个很好的例子，有些内容即使是对研究了她几十年的学者来说，也是模糊、不确定、甚至令人不安的，有时候接受这种不安感本身就是阅读的一部分。

But especially when you're just starting to embark on these books, and Toni Morrison is a great example, there are things that are unclear and uncertain and unsettling even to scholars who have spent decades studying her work and sometimes just accepting this is supposed to make me feel unsettled is part of it.

对，说得太好了。

Yes, that's such a good point.

《堂吉诃德》就是一个很好的例子。

Don Quixote was a great example of that.

不管你是读英文版还是西班牙语原版。

You read it in English or the original Spanish.

它本来就是让人困惑和不安的，你之后会明白为什么。

It's meant to be confusing and unsettling and you figure out why later.

别放弃，对吧？

Don't give up, right?

是的。

Yes.

大胆去读吧。

Dive in.

我喜欢你说的那种“让它冲刷你”的感觉。

Let that I love how you said wash over you.

让自己沉浸其中，明白这很可能是故意的。

You know, allow yourself to be immersed in that and realize this is likely intentional.

我困惑，事情看起来很奇怪。

That I am confused that things seem strange.

这往往是作者有意为之，可能是故意的。

Something is often this person's head and that might be intentional.

是的，加西亚·马尔克斯和萨尔曼·拉什迪就是后现代作家的典型代表，他们在书里构建了那种特别宏大又混乱的世界，读起来感觉又大又乱，好像什么事都在发生。

Yes, Gabrielle Garcia Marquez and Salman Rushdie are great examples of this postmodern writers who create these really big unruly worlds in their books, and it feels big and unruly and like all kinds of things are happening.

比如你死去的爷爷突然出现在晚餐桌上，天花板上还飘着花瓣。

And like your dead grandpa shows up at dinner, and there's flower petals coming from the ceiling.

这就是其中的一部分。

And that's part of it.

他是故意这么写的。

He's doing that on purpose.

更有意思的是，为什么我该有这种感觉？

The more interesting thing is why am I supposed to feel this way?

而不是，我有这种感觉是不是不对？

Not is it wrong that I feel this way?

对。

Yes.

好的，我太喜欢这些建议了。

Okay, I love these tips so much.

谢谢你分享这些。

Thank you for sharing all of this.

我迫不及待想让所有听众都去读这些书。

I can't wait for everyone listening to dive into these books.

我也想分享一个想法。

I do want to share.

我很好奇你会不会同意我的看法，Rebecca。

I'm I'm curious if you'll agree with me, Rebecca.

我想分享一个例外，就是先读引言这个建议，但托妮·莫里森的《宣叙调》是个例外。

I want to share one exception to the read the introduction first, which is sure recitative by Toni Morrison.

我特别后悔当初读了那个引言。

I wish so much that I had not read.

最新版里有一篇很长的文章，就是引言。虽然我们说过剧透不重要，但这是托妮·莫里森写的一个短篇故事，如果你事先什么都不知道，你会在这个过程中发现很多关于你自己的东西，以及你正在做出的那些假设。

There's a long essay, an introduction in the newest edition, and it's like we, you know, said that spoilers don't matter, but this is a short story that Toni Morrison wrote that if you don't know anything about it, you will discover so much about yourself and the assumptions you are making.

我真的很想和每一位听众聊聊他们的想法，以及他们读这个故事时的感受。

And I really want to talk to every one of our listeners about what they thought and what they what their experience was reading it.

如果他们先读了引言，那就会破坏那种体验。

And if they read the introduction first, that will sort of ruin that.

你觉得呢？为了不给听众剧透，我就不多说了，因为每个人都应该去读《Recitatif》，它那么短。

What do you think without no spoilers for everyone listening because everyone should read receipt that if it's so short.

我读那本书已经很久了，所以我得再读一遍。

It's been too long since I read it, so I will have to read

再读一遍。

it again.

我会，我会……

I will I'll

这个我得听你的。

have to defer to you there.

不过你刚才说的时候，我在想，这其实是个好办法，也许如果你有朋友可以一起读书，你们可以决定跳过引言。

But as you were saying that I was thinking this is a great way maybe for folks if you do have friends that you can loop into a reading experience with you, you could decide we're going to skip the introduction.

我们一起读下去，之后再回头读引言也不迟。

We're going to make our way through this together and then you can always go back to the introduction.

像那种短篇的。

Something short like that.

这是个短篇小说，所以非常短。

It's a short story, so it's very, short.

你可以先读一遍，再读引言，然后再读一遍。

You could just read it, then read the introduction, then read it again.

因为对于一本正常篇幅的书，比如长篇小说，你确实想了解更多。

Because for a regular sized book, a novel, you do want to know more about it.

你想熟悉接下来会发生什么，但对于这些短篇小说，它们很短，而且常常故意引人深思，或者帮你意识到关于自己的一些事情。

You want to be able to be familiar with what's going to happen for these short stories that are so short and are often intentionally extremely thought provoking or helping you realize something about yourself.

有时候，一无所知地进入故事，效果反而惊人。

Sometimes it is amazing to go into that knowing nothing.

确实如此。

That's true.

我觉得在所有文学作品中，这篇是故意打破常规的例外。

I think of anything in all of literature, this is very it is an exception to the rule on purpose.

托妮·莫里森希望我们能有这样的体验，让我们质疑自己的偏见和成见，让我们思考自己在想什么，以及为什么写这些内容。

Toni Morrison wanted us to have this experience where we would question our own biases and our own prejudices and we know what are you thinking about what is being written and why.

这确实很有意思，但我很想请你分享一下关于“从零到博览群书”的一些内容。

So that's really interesting but I would love for you to share a little bit about Zero to Well Read.

如果我们分享《老人与海》的链接，让你可以在之前听一遍，也许之后再听一遍，真正体验一下那种读书会的感觉，怎么样？

If, you know, we're going to share the link for The Old Man and the Sea so that you could listen to that before, maybe again after to really help, you know have that book club experience with the book?

那你能不能推荐几集最近的或者以前的节目，让语言学习者可以以此为起点，开始接触文学？

Then could you recommend a couple of other maybe recent episodes or episodes in the past that language learners could use to get into literature as sort of a jumping off point?

哦，我很喜欢这个问题。

Oh, I love this question.

你知道，我们经常听到听众说，他们被那些大部头的非虚构作品吓到了。

You know, one of the things that we hear from listeners most often is that they're intimidated by big works of non fiction.

所以，特别是关于美国历史的，我遇到过的最容易读、也特别好看的一本是伊莎贝尔·威尔克森的《他乡暖阳》，这本书讲的是大迁徙，也就是奴隶制结束后，几代黑人美国人向北方和西部迁移，开始新生活的故事。

And so specifically for US history, the most accessible and just wonderfully readable one that I've come across is The Warmth of Other Suns by Isabel Wilkerson, which is about the great migration where generations of Black Americans after slavery traveled North and West to set up new lives.

她是一位记者，也是一位研究者。

She is a journalist and a researcher.

她进行了大量深入的采访，采访了几十个人，才构建出这个故事，但读起来就像小说一样。

And she did in-depth interviews with dozens and dozens of people to construct this story, but it reads like a novel.

这本书大概有五百页。

It's about 500 pages long.

我觉得有时候光是篇幅就会让读者望而却步。

I think just the length sometimes intimidates readers.

但如果你拿起这本书，她的句子非常优美，很容易读进去，你会一下子沉浸到故事里。

But if you pick it up, her sentences are just lovely, very easy to access and you can fall right into the story.

然后当你退一步想，这些人都是真实存在的。

And then being able to step back and realize like these are real people.

这就是他们生活中真实发生的事情，也是美国历史的重要一部分，这真的很有力量。

And this is what really happened in their lives and an important part of American history is really powerful.

好的，我对这个推荐非常期待。

Okay, I'm really excited for this recommendation.

这正合我的口味。

That's right up my alley.

我想读这本书。

I want to read it.

我之前都没听说过。

I hadn't even heard of it yet.

对听众来说，我也觉得书的厚度不应该让你望而却步。

For listeners as well, I agree the length of a book should not dissuade you.

我读过的一些最好的书都是很厚的大部头，你会完全沉浸在角色里。

Some of the best books I've read were very thick tomes and you get so into the characters.

比如《战争与和平》就是一个例子，还有我读过的一些科幻系列，最后有16本，读完整个系列得有成千上万页。

Think of War and Peace as one example and even some of the sci fi series I've read that end up being 16 books, thousands and thousands of pages by the time you finish a series.

我绝不会用那段时光去换任何别的东西。

Would never go back and trade that time for anything else.

我觉得我认识那些角色中的每一个。

I feel like I know all of those characters.

我亲身经历过那种感觉。

I lived that.

联系非常紧密。

So deeply connected.

是的，没错。

Yes, exactly.

所以我也这么认为。

So I agree.

我很期待看看那本书。

I'm excited to check that one out.

对，既然你提到了短篇小说，我们之前聊过裘帕·拉希莉的《疾病解说者》，那是1999年获得普利策奖的短篇小说集。

Yeah, since you mentioned short stories, we talked about Interpreter of Maladies by Jhumpa Lahiri, which was a Pulitzer Prize winning collection of short stories from 1999.

她是用英语写作的印度作家，那些故事很多都探讨了移民的经历。

She's an Indian writer writing in English and a lot of those stories explore the immigrant experience.

真的非常棒。

It's really wonderful.

这些故事现在读起来和二十七年前一样贴切。

They're just as applicable now as they were twenty seven years ago.

因为是短篇小说，所以一次可以读二十页。

And because it's short stories, can do 20 pages at a time.

语言很美。

Beautiful language.

这些故事都相互关联，但同样也不是特别复杂。

The stories all come together but again not super complicated.

等这期节目播出的时候，我们还会读完荷马的《奥德赛》，正好赶上那部大电影，就是我们俩现在聊的，今年夏天要上映的那部。

And by the time this episode is airing for folks, we will have also done The Odyssey by Homer to overlap with the big movie that, was come is coming out this summer as you and I are talking.

再过几周就上映了。

It's coming out in a couple more weeks.

但那是古希腊的经典作品之一，有很多人翻译过，而且有各种不同的读法。

But that's one of those big classic Greek works that's been translated by a bunch of people and there are all sorts of different ways to approach it.

我和我的搭档杰夫，我们俩各读了不同的译本，这样我们就能带着不同的视角来聊这本书。

And Jeff and I, my co host read two different we each read a different translation so that we could come to the conversation with different perspectives on it.

但我很惊喜地发现它其实很容易读，我笔记里第一句话就是：这比莎士比亚容易多了。

But I was pleasantly surprised by how accessible it was that my first line in my notes was this is easier than Shakespeare.

好的，我非常期待。

Okay, I'm very excited.

我的孩子们现在对《奥德赛》特别着迷，因为《史诗》音乐剧。

My kids are obsessed with the Odyssey right now because of Epic the music all.

你听说过这个吗？

Have you heard of this?

哦，真有趣。

Oh fun.

是的，它在YouTube上，我希望有一天它能成为百老汇音乐剧。

Yes, it's on YouTube and I hope that someday it becomes a Broadway musical.

我的孩子们都把它背下来了。

My kids have it memorized.

他们经常看。

They watch it constantly.

它只是配着音乐的画，所以他们非常兴奋这部电影要上映了，他们想读这本书，我也想过和他们一起读，但他们才11岁。

It's just sort of drawing set to the music, so they're so excited that this film is coming out and they want to read the book and I've thought about reading it with them, but they're 11.

他们是双胞胎，今年11岁。

They're twins that are 11 years old.

我就想，也许再等几年吧，但也许不用等。

I'm like maybe let's wait a few years, but maybe not.

也许我们现在就可以试试，直接开始读。

Maybe we dive in and try it now.

这就像你刚才说的，先读，然后读整本书，再回头去抓细节。我读《奥德赛》的时候就是这么做的，先有个大概了解，然后通读全书，再回头去琢磨细节。

That's one where you were just talking about reading and then reading the book and then coming back and that's exactly what I did for The Odyssey was sort of get grounded then read the whole thing and then go back and pick up the details.

艾米丽·威尔逊的译本是最新的。

Emily Wilson's translation is the newest.

她是第一位将《奥德赛》翻译成英文的女性，而且她的译本读起来非常有节奏感。

She was the first woman to translate The Odyssey into English And it is like it reads like very rhythmically.

非常具有画面感。

It's very cinematic.

有声书版本是由克莱尔·丹尼斯朗读的，这又是我要偷偷加上的第四个建议。

Claire Danes narrates the audiobook edition and that's another I'm going to sneak a fourth tip.

哦，这个我喜欢。

Oh, love that.

那是如果你更喜欢听音频的话，朋友们。

That is if you are more of an audio based listener, which folks

听很多有声书和播客，特别是。

listening to a lot of listening to audiobooks and podcasts, especially

对，所以。

yes, so

开车或者做家务的时候，你可能会想听有声书，这样就能把事都做完。

that while you're driving or doing chores, you might want to listen to the audiobook just so you can get everything's done

或者，或者你坐着看书的时候听有声书，这样能丰富体验，或者你能听到节奏。

or or listen to the audiobook while you sit with the book in front of you and that can help enrich the experience or you can hear the rhythm.

我读莎士比亚的时候就这么做，这样你能听到词句背后的语调和情感。

I do this with Shakespeare so that you can hear you know like the intonation and the emotion behind the words.

这总是个很棒的方式，让……

That's always a wonderful way to make

那种体验。

that experience.

我很喜欢克莱尔·丹妮丝的声音，那个译本听起来很适合我和孩子们一起读。

Love Claire Danes voice so and that translation sounds perfect for me to read with my kids.

我今天收获了好多建议，也特别希望听众朋友们去看看《Zero to Well Read》这些播客节目，它们让文学变得更容易亲近，别觉得有压力，对吧？

I'm so excited for all the tips that I have gotten today and for listeners for you to check out Zero to Well Read for these podcast episodes that make literature so much more accessible and don't feel intimidated, right?

大胆去读有趣的文学作品吧。

Dive into interesting literature.

这会让你很有成就感。

It will be so fulfilling.

花时间是值得的。

It is worth the time.

花力气也是值得的，去真正啃下一本比普通小说或悬疑小说更难读的作品，那种收获是很大的。

It is worth the effort that it takes to really attack, really to absorb a novel that is more difficult than the average You novel or mystery novel that you would feel is easier.

不要回避文学。

Don't shy away from literature.

是的，给自己一个建立信心的机会。

Yeah, give yourself a chance to build your confidence there.

这真的会有回报的。

It really will pay off.

我同意。

I agree.

非常感谢你今天来参加我们的节目，Rebecca。

Thank you so much for joining us today, Rebecca.

我们真的很感激你能来播客做客。

We really appreciate you coming on the podcast.

而且，是的，很期待在Zero to Well Read上听到你的声音。

And, yeah, excited to hear your voice over on Zero to Well Read.

再次感谢。

Thanks again.

谢谢。

Thank you.

这是我的荣幸。

It's my pleasure.

再见。

Bye.

感谢收听《All Ears English》。

Thanks for listening to All Ears English.

你想知道自己的英语水平吗？

Would you like to know your English level?

来做我们的两分钟小测验吧。

Take our two minute quiz.

访问 allearsenglish.com/fluency score。

Go to allearsenglish.com forward slash fluency score.

如果你相信连接而非完美，那就现在订阅，确保不错过任何内容。

And if you believe in connection not perfection, then hit subscribe now to make sure you don't miss anything.

下次见。

See you next time.