AEE：什么是外貌歧视，我们能做些什么？

这里是All Ears English播客。

This is an All Ears English podcast.

什么是外貌歧视？我们能做些什么呢？

What is lookism, and what can we do about it?

欢迎收听All Ears English播客，下载量已超过两亿次。

Welcome to the All Ears English podcast, downloaded more than 200 million times.

你是否觉得英语学习遇到了瓶颈？

Are you feeling stuck with your English?

我们将教你如何变得无所畏惧、流利自如，专注于交流而非完美。你的美国主持人奥布里·卡特（雅思专家）和林赛·麦克马洪（英语探险家）从美国亚利桑那州和科罗拉多州为你带来节目。

We'll show you how to become fearless and fluent by focusing on connection, not perfection, with your American hosts, Aubrey Carter, the IELTS Wiz, and Lindsay McMahon, the English Adventurer, coming to you from Arizona and Colorado, USA.

想要每周通过邮件获取节目文本，请访问allearsenglish.com/subscribe。

And to get your transcripts delivered by email every week, go to allearsenglish.com/subscribe.

你会不会因为别人长得好看就对他们另眼相看？

Do you ever judge people by how good-looking they are?

你觉得别人会以貌取人吗？

Do you feel like others judge you?

今天，我们来了解一下“lookism”这个词，以及如何用英语开启相关话题。

Today, find out about the term lookism and how to strike up a conversation about it in English.

流利并不意味着说得完美。

Fluency doesn't mean speaking perfectly.

流利意味着说话不紧张、轻松自如，并且能够建立联系，不需要翻译，也不需要反复犹豫。

It means speaking without tension, with ease, and in a way that will build connection, without translating, without second-guessing.

如果英语对你来说仍然很沉重，你需要的是如何进步的方法，而不是更多的努力。

If English still feels heavy for you, you need clarity on how to get better, not more effort.

我们免费的“两分钟流利度测试”能帮你了解你的英语现在需要什么。

Our free two-minute fluency quiz helps you understand what your English needs right now.

另外，你还能知道自己的英语水平。

Plus, you get your English level.

今天就去 allearsenglish.com/fluencyscore 测试吧。

Take it today at allearsenglish.com/fluencyscore.

网址是 allearsenglish.com/F-L-U-E-N-C-Y-S-C-O-R-E。

That's allearsenglish.com/F-L-U-E-N-C-Y-S-C-O-R-E.

你好，Lindsay。

Hello, Lindsay.

你最近怎么样？

How are you?

嘿，Aubrey。

Hey, Aubrey.

我挺好的。

I'm doing great.

很高兴能重新回到麦克风前。

Great to be back on the mic.

我们休息了一阵子，虽然节目还在更新，但你和我已经几周没一起录了——

We took a little break, although episodes still came out, but you and I haven't recorded in a few weeks here-

是的

Yes

……所以能一起回到麦克风前感觉真好。

... so it's nice to be back on the microphone together.

能回来真好，我有个问题想问你。

It is nice to be back, and I have a question for you.

今天这个话题会——

This is going to be a-

好的

All right

——特别有意思。

... really interesting topic today.

是的。

Yes.

我在想，你会不会根据外表来判断一个人？

And I'm wondering, do you ever judge someone based on their appearance?

我觉得如果你说不会，那肯定是假话，对吧？

I think if you said no, it would be a lie, right?

人的大脑天生就倾向于快速下结论，因为从进化角度看，我们就是这样作为物种生存下来的，虽然这有点遗憾。

The human mind is designed to draw conclusions as quickly as possible because that's evolutionarily how we survived as a species, unfortunately.

但我要说的是，当我做出判断时，我会意识到自己刚刚做了判断。

But I will say that what I try to do is when I make a judgment, I think about the fact that I just made a judgment.

就是一种觉察，对吧？

It's like an awareness, right?

对。

Yes.

然后我会想，哦，这会不会是不对的？

And I think, oh, could that be untrue?

至少你在质疑你的——

At least you're questioning the-

是的

Yes

……偏见和假设，还有——

... prejudices you might have, the assumptions, and-

没错

Exactly

……这不一定跟……

... it might not necessarily be about-

对

Yes

……一个人的美貌或外表有关，但也许如果他们穿得邋遢或者……

... someone's beauty or something physical, but maybe if they're slovenly dressed or-

哦，那当然

Oh, for sure

……看起来卫生习惯不好之类的。

... seem like they have poor hygiene, things like that.

很难不对一个人下结论。

It's hard to not draw conclusions about a person.

哦，那当然。

Oh, for sure.

而且我知道反过来也是这样。

And I know it happens on the other side.

我知道，现在送儿子去日托的时候，我基本上就是从床上爬起来，喂他吃饭，然后穿着牛仔短裤就去了。

I know that when I bring my son into daycare now, I basically roll out of bed, feed him, and then go in, just in cut-off jeans.

头发乱七八糟的。

My hair is all over the place.

大多数家长送孩子的时候都打扮得整整齐齐，准备上班，穿着高跟鞋，我知道有人上下打量我，我也知道他们在想什么。

And most parents drop off their kids when they are polished, ready for work, in their high heels, and I know I've been looked up and down, and I know what they're thinking.

我知道。

I know.

我也有过同样的经历。

I've had that same experience.

如果我需要给孩子送东西去学校，我会想：“其他妈妈来的时候是什么样子？”而我几乎没怎么穿好衣服。

If I have to drop something off to kids at school, I'm like, "I wonder what the other moms look like coming in," and I'm barely dressed.

对。

Yes.

我就想说：“我在家工作，好吗？”

I'm like, "I work from home, okay?"

没错。

Exactly.

所以两边都有这种情况，今天我们就来聊聊这个话题。

So, it happens on both sides, and so we're going to talk about this today.

这个主题真的很有意思。

This is fascinating as a topic.

对。

Yes.

这个灵感来自我在《纽约客》上看到的一篇文章，标题是《我们是否应该更努力对抗外貌歧视？》

This was inspired by an article that I saw in "The New Yorker" that was called "Should We Do More To Fight Lookism?"

我当时就想，什么是外貌歧视呢？

And I immediately was like, what is lookism?

我从来没听过这个词，我和Lindsay简单聊了一下。

I had never heard this word, and Lindsay and I chatted briefly.

你也没听过，对吧？

You hadn't as well, right?

所以这算是——

So it's sort of-

对

Yes

……一个新词吧，我觉得。

... a new term, I think.

但确实说得通。

But it makes sense.

就是根据人的外貌给予不公平的对待或歧视。

This is the unfair treatment or discrimination of people based on their physical appearance.

对。

Yes.

也就是说，因为一个人的长相去评判他的性格、智力或价值，这可以涉及外貌的任何方面，而这些跟他的内在品质不一定有什么关系，但就是会被人拿来下判断——

So judging someone's character, intelligence, or value because of how they look, and that can be anything about their appearance, something that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with their character, but it's a judgment-

对

Yes

完全就是根据他们的外表。

... solely based on how they look.

完全正确。

Completely.

各位，我们很喜欢聊这样的话题，发人深省，又是新的文化话题。而且我们会在节目后面教大家怎么用英语跟别人聊这个话题。

Guys, we love to get into topics like this, thought-provoking, new cultural topics, and we're going to show you later in the episode how you can talk with another English speaker about this, too.

所以，如果你喜欢我们的风格，就点个关注吧。

So hit follow if you love our style.

我们会教大家，最重要的是，怎么通过好的对话来拉近关系。

We'll show you how, most importantly, to connect around good conversation.

好吗？

Okay?

对，没错，因为这个话题真的很有意思。

Yes, exactly, because this is such an interesting topic.

它非常具有文化性。

It's very cultural.

我敢说世界各地的情况都不一样，但我们都见过、注意到过，或者自己也这么做过，所以——

I'm sure it's different around the world, but all of us have observed it or noticed it or found ourselves doing it, so-

对

Yes

……这绝对是个值得聊的话题。

... definitely something that's interesting to talk about.

百分之百。

100%.

那我们今天从哪儿开始呢，Aubrey？

So where should we start today, Aubrey?

我们需要——

What should-

……了解些什么？

... do we need to know?

那我先分享一些这篇文章的细节，如果你想去看的话。

So I'll first share some details about this article if you want to go check it out.

这篇文章发表在《纽约客》上，副标题是“对不具吸引力者的歧视普遍存在且被广泛容忍”。

It was in "The New Yorker," and the subheading was "Discrimination Against the Unattractive Is Widespread and Widely Tolerated."

作者是约书亚·罗斯曼，发表于今年7月24日，也就是2026年。

So this was by Joshua Rothman, July 24th of this year, 2026.

有趣的是，这篇文章不仅仅是在说“外貌歧视”这种现象存在。

And this is interesting how it's not just about the fact that lookism exists.

更多的是在问：为什么没有人对此采取行动？

It's more about why isn't anyone doing anything about it?

为什么没有任何后果？

Why are there no repercussions?

如果一个人升职或得到工作，而其中可能受到外貌因素的影响，为什么没有人追究？

Why are there no consequences if someone is getting a promotion or getting a job, and there's a chance that that was affected by something about their appearance?

很有意思，对吧？

Very interesting, right?

因为如果你看看很多公司的高管层，通常都是长得好看的……嗯，通常都是男性。

Because if you look at the C-suite of many companies, it's often the good-looking... Well, it's often men.

对。

Yes.

也是这么回事。

That, too.

好看的男性和年长的男性，对吧？

Good-looking men and older men, right?

所以这里面有很多因素，但是——

And so there's a lot there, but-

对

Yes

这真有意思

... this is fascinating.

这点挺有意思的

This is interesting.

所以咱们在讨论外貌歧视的时候，得先把定义搞清楚

So when we talk about lookism, let's make sure we have the definition.

我们只看外貌吸引力，还是也看一个人看起来邋遢或者——

Are we looking just at attractiveness, or are we also looking at looking, let's say, unkempt or-

两者都算。

Both.

对。

Yes

就像我之前说的，去日托所的时候头发乱糟糟的。

... like I said before, showing up at daycare, hair all over the place.

对。

Yes.

所有这些，对吧？

All of that, right?

所有这些。

All of this.

好的。

Okay.

你去面试的时候，会穿最好的衣服，把头发弄好，让自己看起来精神，这是有原因的。

There's a reason that when you go to a job interview, you are dressing in your nicest clothing and trying to do your hair and look well.

我们大多数人——

Most of us-

不会邋里邋遢地去面试——

... don't go to an interview-

对

Yes

——邋遢的样子去面试是有原因的。

... looking unkempt, and there's a reason for that.

外貌歧视。

Lookism.

好的。

Okay.

我们知道我们正在被——

We know that we are being-

……别人会根据我们展现出来的外表来评判我们，而且——

... judged based on the appearance that we put forth, and-

……你没法证明这一点。

... you can't prove it.

你没法证明你没得到那份工作是因为你穿着运动服去——

You can't prove you didn't get a job because you went in sweats-

对

Correct

……面试，但你可以这么猜测，对吧？

... to an interview, but you can assume that, right?

因为那是——

Because that's-

是的

Yes

……就是我们文化的一部分。

... just part of our culture.

这是我们社会价值观的一部分。

It's part of what our society values.

所以我们化妆，对吧？

So we put on makeup, right?

为了准备面试，我们会穿上最好的衣服，是的，我猜我以前从没这么想过，对吧？

To prepare for a job interview, we put on our best clothes, and yeah, I guess I've never thought of it this way, right?

我其实也没想过。

I haven't really either.

我也没把它当成一种主义，对吧？

And I hadn't thought of it as an ism, right?

某种东西——

Something that-

对。

Yes.

不。

No

……我们被评判的标准，而且可能是不公平的。

... we're being judged on and maybe unfairly.

我以前从没想过这在我们社会中存在，但这样真的没问题吗？

I had never thought of it like this exists in our society, but is it not okay?

这是我们应该去抗争的事情吗？

Is it something we should be fighting?

它一直被视为理所当然，我对自己那些假设感到很好奇。

It was just always sort of a given, and that I'm sort of fascinated by my own assumptions there.

这确实很有意思。

That is really fascinating.

那么，奥布里，外貌歧视的关键点有哪些呢？

So what are kind of the key aspects here of lookism, Aubrey?

当然，首先是职场，对吧？

So of course, the workplace, right?

雇主在招聘和晋升时，往往更青睐长相好看的候选人。

Employers often will favor attractive job candidates for hiring and promotions.

存在一种所谓的颜值红利，长得好看的人往往收入更高，而且我们有-

There is this sort of beauty premium where better-looking workers often earn more money, and we know that-

...很多研究都证实了这一点，也有统计数据，但很难确切证明。

... there have been studies about this, there are statistics, but it's tricky because it's really hard to prove.

就像你刚才说的-

Like you said-

...公司里的领导层通常都是些长相出众的人。

... often leadership in a company are good-looking people.

你怎么证明这确实帮他们拿到了工作？

How can you prove that that helped them get the job?

对，而且也很难证明。因为那些能爬到领导层、进入高管团队的人，他们的能力是因为长得好看才获得的，而不只是因为这个原因。

Right, and also it would be hard to prove because those people that have made it to the leadership, the C-suite, have the skills because they've been good-looking, not just because of it.

咱们别说是唯一的原因，但至少在整个职业生涯中，外貌因素起了部分作用，对吧？

Let's not say it's all the reason, but partially because of this throughout their entire careers, right?

这是一种不断累积效应的结果。

Something that compounds.

没错。

Exactly.

这是会贯穿整个职业生涯不断累积的东西。

It's something that would compound throughout an entire-

这里面还有很多其他因素，对吧？

There's a lot more to it, right?

他们从小就自带一种自信，因为一直知道自己长得好看。

There's a built-in confidence when their whole life-

对。

Yes.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

这也是一个因素。

That, too

他们一直知道自己有外貌这个优势。

... they have known that they have this attractiveness going for them.

对。

Yes.

所以除了外表吸引力，背后还有很多其他因素。

So there's a lot more to it than just attractiveness.

如果那个人是个糟糕的领导，而且缺乏自信，那他大概也得不到那份工作。

If that person were a poor leader and had a lack of confidence, then they probably wouldn't be getting that job.

这些方面其实是相互关联的。

It's kind of all related.

所以这是一种累积效应，也许一开始是知道自己有吸引力，这让你更自信，然后你获得更多技能，进而让自己更有竞争力。

So they're kind of compounding effects where maybe it starts with knowing you're an attractive person, that makes you more confident, therefore you gain more skills, therefore you become even more qualified.

没错。

Exactly.

对，而且它-

Right, and it's-

太迷人了

Fascinating

……想想社交媒体对这方面的影响，挺有意思的。

... interesting to think about how social media affects this.

我觉得这在我们文化中越来越普遍了，因为……

This, I think, is becoming even more prevalent in our culture because of-

……数字文化，对吧？

... digital culture, right?

自拍……

Selfie-

……分享应用增加了外貌压力。

... sharing apps that increase appearance pressure.

人们不得不更多考虑——我跟我的孩子们聊过这个。

People have to think more about-- I was talking to my teenagers about this.

他们永远不知道什么时候……

They never know when-

……有人会拍下他们的照片并立刻发布。

... someone's going to take a picture of them and post it immediately.

我们小时候没有那种压力，那时候——

We didn't have that pressure as kids, where-

对，是的。

No. Yeah

……只有胶片相机。

... it was just film cameras.

对。

No.

我一年也就被拍两张照片，所以不用太担心这个。

There were like two pictures taken of me a year, so I didn't have to worry about it so much.

那时候不太注重外表。

The focus wasn't so much on appearance.

那压力可真大。

That's a lot of pressure.

天哪，这对青少年来说压力太大了，他们本来可能就在为外表烦恼，或者在摸索自己是谁，或者经历各种变化。

Gosh, that is a lot of pressure for teenagers to have when they're already struggling with their appearance maybe, or trying to figure out who they are, or changes.

没错。

Exactly.

哎呀，不是吧。好吧。

It's oh, no. Okay.

这确实强化了那些狭隘的审美标准，你不得不——

This really reinforces those narrow beauty standards that you have-

——总是保持精致，随时准备好上镜。

... to always be put together and photo ready.

所以有意思的是——

And so it's interesting-

哦，对。

Oh, yeah

——这真的加剧了外貌歧视，让它成为——

... how that really has compounded this lookism and made it a-

——我们文化中更严重的一部分，不幸的是。

... bigger part of our culture, unfortunately.

对，而且确实没有什么法律禁止这个，因为就像我们说的，这很难证明。

Yeah, and there really aren't any laws that ban this because, as we said, it would be really hard to prove this.

我们有更多关于年龄歧视的法律——

We have more laws about things like ageism-

种族歧视、性别歧视。

... racism, sexism.

还有什么来着？

What's another one?

没错。

Exactly.

我——

I-

种族歧视。

Racism.

不知道我们有没有关于肥胖歧视的法律，但这个词也存在——

... don't know if we have any laws for fatism, but it is a term too-

挺有意思的。

Interesting

这是我最近听到的。

... that I've heard lately.

确实挺有意思。

Interesting.

所以说，这是真的。

So yeah, it's true.

法律上其实没有相关规定，所以这类情况的受害者很难得到法律保护。

There aren't really any laws on the books, so targets of this don't really have legal protection.

而且你根本没法-

And you couldn't-

……去证明这一点。比如在社会标准看来你可能不算有吸引力，你觉得找不到工作、也得不到晋升，这种情况下你怎么去举证呢？

... really prove it if you are maybe, by society's standards, an unattractive person, and you feel like you're not getting jobs, and you're not getting promotions, how could you possibly prove that?

确实，这非常难做到。

It would be really hard to do, for sure.

那这个光环效应到底是什么概念，Aubrey？

So what is this halo effect concept, Aubrey?

对，这个挺有意思的。

Yeah, this is interesting.

这个其实是在研究为什么这种现象会持续存在时发现的，有一种叫做光环效应的东西，就是——

So this was kind of in the research about why this persists, and there's something called the halo effect, is that-

人们往往会自动认为长得好看的人更聪明、更善良、更健康、更自信，而且——

... people tend to automatically assume that attractive individuals are smarter, kinder, healthier, more confident, and-

有时候可能确实是这样，因为就像我们刚才说的，这会不断累积，互相强化，所以——

... often maybe they are because like we were saying, this compounds, this sort of reinforces, and so-

这些特质往往都是相互关联的。

... they might all be related often.

所以很多人确实有这种倾向，认为外表好看就等于具备所有这些其他积极特质。

And so we do, a lot of individuals have this tendency to assume attractiveness equals all these other positive characteristics.

有意思。

Interesting.

但有趣的是，为什么这有可能是真的呢？

But it's interesting why it could be true, right?

这是因为外貌歧视。因为他们一生中获得了那些机会和优势。

It's because of lookism, because they've been given those opportunities, those advantages throughout their lives.

没错。

Exactly.

并不是因为他们长得好看，对吧？

It's not because they're good-looking, right?

挺有意思的。

So interesting.

确实有趣。

Interesting.

我查了一下相关资料——

And I researched this-

多了解了一些，因为这是我第一次听到这个术语，不过——

... a little further, because this was the first I had heard this term, but there was-

……剑桥大学出版社在四月发表的一篇学术论文——

... an academic paper by the Cambridge University Press in April-

哦

Oh

……2026年的，题目是《外貌歧视：一种可接受的歧视？》

... of 2026 called "Lookism: An Acceptable Discrimination?"

这篇论文真的很有意思，它研究了为什么外貌歧视在政策和实践中不像性别歧视——

And this was a really fascinating paper that studied why lookism isn't taken as seriously in policy and practice as other forms of discrimination, such as sexism-

……和种族歧视那样受到重视。

... and racism.

所以如果你真想深入了解细节，可以直接搜索并阅读那篇完整的学术论文，因为它确实引人入胜，而且思考其中的文化因素也很有意思。

So you can just search and read that entire academic paper if you really want to dive in for details about this, because it is fascinating, and it's also interesting to think about the cultural piece.

这种现象可能在许多国家的多种文化中都很普遍，但很可能有所不同——

This is possibly prevalent in many countries across many cultures, but is likely different-

哦，对

Oh, yeah

……这跟你住在哪里有关，这点也很有意思。

... depending on where you live, and that's really interesting as well.

当然。

Of course.

审美标准自然是不一样的。

Standards of beauty are different, of course.

没错。

Yes.

没错。

Absolutely.

不过看起来，因为过去三四个月里出了两篇文章，这个词好像正作为一个新热点慢慢冒头，我们可能很快就要在社会层面开始广泛讨论了。

But it seems like because there's been two articles written in the last three or four months, it seems like it could be a hot new term kind of emerging that we're going to start talking about on a societal level.

所以这确实是在帮听众关注当下这个重要话题，对吧？

So this is really tuning our listeners in to a current topic that matters, right?

正是如此。

Exactly.

真的很有意思。

Really interesting.

是的。

Yes.

所以这个话题确实可能会在聊天中出现，你得做好准备。

So definitely it might come up in conversations, and you want to be ready.

对。

Yes.

你有没有过说英语说到精疲力尽的时候？

Have you ever felt exhausted after speaking English?

不是因为对话很难，而是因为你的大脑在超负荷运转，忙着翻译、检查语法、找词汇。

Not because the conversation was difficult, but because your brain was working overtime to translate, checking grammar, searching for vocabulary.

但真正的流利其实感觉更轻松。

But true fluency actually feels lighter.

你花在琢磨英语上的时间更少，更多的时间用来和人交流。

You spend less time thinking about English and more time connecting with people.

找出是什么阻碍了你达到你想要的那个水平。

Find out what's standing between you and that next level that you're looking for.

来参加我们免费的2分钟流利度测试吧。

Take our free two-minute fluency quiz.

访问 allearsenglish.com/fluencyscore。

Go to allearsenglish.com/fluencyscore.

就是 allearsenglish.com/F-L-U-E-N-C-Y-S-C-O-R-E。

That's allearsenglish.com/F-L-U-E-N-C-Y-S-C-O-R-E.

好的，Aubrey。

All right, Aubrey.

那么，我们的听众有什么方法可以把这个新概念——也许今天他们第一次听说——用英语来讨论，从而进行练习呢？

So what are some ways that our listeners can take this new concept, that maybe today's the first time they've heard about it, and start talking about it in English to practice-

就是这样。

That's it

……并且建立联系呢？

... and to connect?

我们很期待你去进行这些对话，但这绝对是你需要注意的事情之一，因为和你交谈的人可能从来没听过这个词。

We're excited for you to have these conversations, but this is definitely one of those things that you have to be aware that whoever you're talking to may never have heard this term before.

是的。

Yes.

所以我们之前也推荐过这种方法。

So we've recommended this in the past as a way to do that.

我们的第一个建议是用这样的话开始对话："我在听一个关于外貌歧视的播客，就是人们因为外表而受到歧视。

So our first recommendation is to start the conversation with something like this: "I was listening to a podcast about lookism, where people experience discrimination based on their appearance.

你觉得这种情况多吗？"

Do you think that happens a lot?"

所以我不会说："我在听一个关于外貌歧视的播客。

So I wouldn't say something like, "I was listening to a podcast about lookism.

你听说过吗？

Have you heard of that?

你知道那是什么吗？"

Do you know what that is?"

我会先假设他们没听过这个词，然后这样说，顺便简单解释一下，再直接进入话题。

I would start it sort of assuming that they haven't heard this term, and then say it this way, where you kind of automatically very briefly define it, and then jump right into the conversation.

对，没错。

Yeah, for sure.

而且我怎么说都不为过，现在这个词在现实世界里太常见了。

And I can't overemphasize how common this chunk is these days out in the world.

我在听一个关于X的播客。

I was listening to a podcast about X.

这太常见了。

It's so common.

这是开启对话最简单的方式——

It's the easiest way to start a conversation-

不欣赏

Don't appreciate

……因为它去掉了那种居高临下的感觉，比如“我听说过这个”。

... because it takes out that sort of condescension of like, "I heard about this."

大家都在听——

Everyone listens-

——播客。

... to podcasts.

这真的是一个——

It's such a-

——很轻松的方式，可以说‘我偶然在播客上听到这个’。

... easy medium to be like, I randomly heard about this on a podcast.

我不是在把自己——

I'm not setting-

——摆得比对方更有学问或更聪明。

... myself up as more learned or intelligent than the person I'm talking to.

没错。

Exactly.

有意思的是，我们2013年开始做这个节目，那时候你在哪儿都听不到这种说法。

It's just so funny because we started this show in 2013, and that wasn't a thing you heard anywhere.

那时候没人知道播客是什么。

No one knew what a podcast was.

这十三年来的文化变迁真是巨大。

It's such a cultural shift that we've gone through in the last 10, 13 years.

太不可思议了。

It's amazing.

我也说不清。

I don't know.

确实如此。

It's so true.

所以——

So-

然后——

And then-

……我想推荐的第二件事是，你可以说：“你听说过‘外貌至上主义’吗？”

... this second thing I want to recommend is you can say like, "Have you heard of lookism?"

但你这样做，其实是在立刻表明你之前没听过，对吧？

But what you're doing is immediately sharing that you had not before, right?

因为这个词太不常见了，很可能对方会说：“没，我没听过。”

Because this is such an uncommon term, most likely the person that you're talking to would just say, "No, I haven't.

那是什么？”

What's that?"

你不想把自己摆成专家的样子。

You don't want to set yourself up as an expert.

那样可能会影响你们的关系。

That could hurt the connection.

所以你可以这样说：“嘿，你听说过‘外貌歧视’吗？”

So what you can say is something like, "Hey, have you heard of lookism?

我之前也没听说过，但刚听了个播客讲到这个。”

I had not heard of it before, but I just heard a podcast about it."

对，就是这样。

Yes, exactly.

我们还可以问一些后续问题。

And some follow-up questions that we could have.

如果对方表现出好奇，不管你在跟谁说话，你可以问，你有没有亲眼见过，或者你觉得你有没有见过，可能更随意一点，对吧？

If the response is people are curious, whoever you're talking to, you could ask, have you ever witnessed, or do you feel like you've ever seen it, maybe more casually, right?

你有没有亲眼见过外貌歧视？

Have you ever witnessed lookism?

你觉得你有没有见过或者经历过这种情况？

Do you feel like you've ever seen this or experienced it?

奥布里，我们还能问什么？

What else, Aubrey, could we ask?

或者，你有没有犯过这种错？

Or, are you guilty of it?

你可以自己承认。

You could admit yourself.

比如说，我肯定觉得自己也犯过这种错。

Be like, I definitely feel like I've been guilty of this.

你呢？

What about you?

哦，那当然。

Oh, for sure.

承认这个弱点吧。

Admit that vulnerability.

是的。

Yes.

或者你可以问，在你生活和工作的环境中，这种现象常见吗？

Or you could ask, is it common where you live and work?

讨论审美标准也很有意思，这可能是稍微不同的话题，但在你的文化中，什么被认为是美的？

It's also really interesting to talk about standards of beauty, which would be a slightly different topic, but what is considered beautiful in your culture?

确实。

Definitely.

我们刚才在聊一个——

We were talking on a-

了解一下不同的人对此有什么不同的看法会很有趣。

It would be interesting to find out how that's different with who you're talking to.

就在昨天，我们举办了每月一次的流利度派对，面向我们所有课程的学员，我们聊到了防晒霜和晒黑的话题。

Just yesterday, we ran our Fluency Party, which we run once a month for anyone in any one of our courses, and we were talking about sunscreen and tanning.

对吧，Aubrey？

Right, Aubrey?

是的。

Yes.

那是个很好的例子……

That's a good example of-

我们聊那个的时候，我就想到了外貌歧视这个话题……

I thought of this lookism when we had that conversation-

……因为这当然……

... because this, of course-

好的，不错。

Okay, cool