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在我最喜爱的圣诞灵修演讲之一中，沙伦·尤班克姊妹说，如果你仔细思考这个季节所唱的歌词，你会发现一个专为你量身定制的神圣信息，它将提升并安慰你。
In one of my favorite Christmas devotional talks ever, sister Sharon Eubank said, if you think about the words you sing this season, you will find a divine message tailored especially for you that will lift and comfort you.
她继续说，今年圣诞季，有一段话找到了我。
She continued, here is one that found me this Christmas season.
我一直在为那些人道援助无法触及的人们担忧，也担心国家有时会让我们难以接触到那些受苦的弟兄姊妹。
I've been fretting all about the people our humanitarian aid can't reach and how the nation sometimes make it difficult for us to reach brothers and sisters who suffer.
就在今天早上，在慈助会中，我认真聆听了我们所唱的歌曲。
And then just this morning in Relief Society, I paid attention to the song that we sing.
求主看顾所有可爱的孩子，使我们配得上天，与你同在在那里，结束引用。
Bless all the dear children in thy tender care and fit us for heaven to live with thee there, end quote.
和尤班克姊妹一样，我一直在为今年圣诞特辑邀请哪位嘉宾而烦恼。
Like sister Eubank, I had been fretting about who would be a great guest for our Christmas episode this year.
而正是在重读这篇演讲时，我突然有了灵感。
And it was while rereading this very talk that it occurred to me.
当我们关心身边的人时，圣诞节才最具意义，而沙伦·尤班克是我能想到的最合适的人选之一，她能帮助我们理解，如何在圣诞时节的付出使我们配得上天堂。
Christmas is most meaningful when we care for others around us and Sharon Eubank is among the most qualified people I can think of to help us understand how giving at Christmas time can fit us for heaven.
在我为这期播客做准备时，我找到了一篇我非常喜欢的关于莎伦·尤班克的简介。
As I was preparing for this podcast, I found a bio for Sharon Eubank that I loved.
上面写道：莎伦·尤班克多年来在犹他州普罗沃经营一家玩具店，花了无数时间给圣诞老人提建议，告诉他哪些礼物最适合那些表现良好的孩子，结束引用。
It read, Sharon Eubank for many years owned a toy store in Provo, Utah and spent endless hours advising Santa Claus on the coolest stuff for kids who had been good, end quote.
你可能也认识莎伦·尤班克，她曾是女青年总会会长团的顾问，目前是耶稣基督后期圣徒教会的全球人道主义主任。
You may also recognize Sharon Eubank as a former counselor in the Relief Society general presidency and currently the global humanitarian director for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints.
莎伦·尤班克姐妹最近出版了她的第一本书《以伟大的爱做小事》。
Sister Sharon Eubank recently authored her first book, doing small things with great love.
欢迎收听《全然投入》，这是一档关于摩门教生活的播客，我们探讨的问题是：真正全然投入耶稣基督的福音意味着什么？
This is All In, an LDS living podcast where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ?
我是摩根·皮尔森，今天非常荣幸能邀请到莎伦·尤班克与我连线。
I'm Morgan Pearson, and I am so honored to have Sharon Eubank on the line with me today.
尤班克姐妹，欢迎你。
Sister Eubank, welcome.
非常感谢你。
Thank you so much.
我想先告诉你，我为什么如此喜欢这本书。
Well, I am gonna start out and tell you what I loved so much about this book.
我非常喜欢的地方有很多。
There are many things that I loved.
我觉得我学到了很多，但其中一点让我特别欣赏的是，你能写出一本经过他人编辑却依然保留你个人风格的书。
I felt like I learned so much, but one thing that I loved is I think it's a unique ability to be able to write a book that is edited by other people and preserve your own voice.
整本书读下来，我仿佛能听到你在和我对话。
And I felt like throughout the book, I could hear your voice talking to me.
我认为你的声音是我们所有人都如此喜爱的。
And I think your voice is one that we all love so much.
所以读这本书时，我感觉就像在和你共度时光，这让我非常开心。
And so it was so fun for me to read the book and feel like I was spending time with you.
恭喜你写出这样一本美好的书。
So congratulations on a beautiful book.
你做得太棒了，我非常期待今天能和你聊聊这本书。
You've done such a good job, and I'm so excited to talk about it today.
谢谢。
Thank you.
我非常期待这本书引发的公众对话。
I'm excited about the conversation that the book starts with people.
这对我来说是最有趣的部分。
That's the thing that's most interesting for me.
我肯定。
I'm sure.
我相信你已经经历过，并且将继续拥有许多有趣的对话。
I'm sure you'll you've had and will continue to have so many interesting conversations.
我也非常期待我们今天的对话。
And I'm excited about our conversation today.
当我思考圣诞节时，我觉得最美好的部分之一，是当我们回望童年和青少年时期的圣诞节时，我猜大多数人还记得某次被邀请去提供服务的经历。
I felt like as I thought about Christmas, I felt like one of the most beautiful parts of Christmas when we think back to Christmases of our childhood and adolescence that have impactful, my guess is most people can remember some time when they were invited to give some sort of service.
当我回忆成长过程中的圣诞节时，我并不一定记得那些年收到的特定礼物，而是记得有人把圣诞罐子送到家门口，以及为孩子们收集外套的情景。
I when I think about Christmases growing up, I don't necessarily think about certain gifts that I got throughout the years, but instead Christmas jars dropped off on doors and and collecting coats for kids.
我认为这些才是会一直留在我们心中的东西。
And I think those are the things that stick with us.
所以今天我想从你书中描述的、对你人生具有里程碑意义的一件事开始。
So I wanna start today with something that you describe in your book as being a touchstone in your life.
这是长老J·李·克拉克的一段话。
It's a statement by elder J.
鲁本·克拉克曾说：‘福利计划真正的长期目标，是培养施与受者的品格，唤醒他们内心最美好、最深层的品质，让灵魂中潜藏的丰富内涵开花结果——毕竟，这正是基督教会的使命、宗旨与存在意义。’
Reuben Clark, who said the real long term objective of the welfare plan is the building of character in givers and receivers, rescuing all that is finest deep down inside of them and bringing to flower and fruitage the latent richness of the spirit, which after all is the mission and purpose and reason for being of Christ's church, end quote.
所以我一开始就想问你：在你与你所服务的人们——无论是施予者还是接受者——的互动中，你如何看到这种品格的塑造？也许在你自己身上也是如此？
So I wanted to start out and ask you, how have you seen this building of character in the lives of the people that you've worked with, both the givers and the receivers and maybe even in yourself?
谢谢你引用这段话。
Thanks for pulling out that quote.
这是我最喜欢的引述之一。
It's one of my favorite quotes.
它也是教会中福利与自立理念的核心教义之一。
It's also one of the founding doctrines of welfare and self reliance in the church.
当时是在一个特定的时期，你知道的，1929年股市崩盘，失业率达到60%。
And it was given at a time, you know, stock market had crashed in 1929, 60% unemployment.
因此，盐湖城的教会，J.
And so the church in Salt Lake City, J.
鲁本·克拉克当时是驻墨西哥大使，他实际上告诉美国总统：我要放弃大使职位，因为我的社区、我的信仰群体需要我。
Reuben Clark was the ambassador to Mexico, and he actually told the president of The United States, I'm going to give up my ambassadorship because my community, my faith community needs me.
他当时同时担任第一会长团成员。
He was in the first presidency at the same time.
于是他回来了，他们担心的是人们的基本生活需求。
And so he came back and they're they're worried about physical needs.
人们没有足够的食物。
People don't have enough food.
人们家里没有足够的取暖条件。
People don't have enough heating in their house.
那是一段极其艰难的时期。
It was a hard, hard time.
然后他发表了这样一番话：关于给予者和接受者，如何拯救了他们内心最美好的部分。
And then he gives this statement about it's about givers and receivers rescuing the thing that's the finest down deep inside them.
接着他用了那种老派的表达，你知道的，那是灵性之花与果实，是灵性的丰盛。
And then uses that old fashioned language, you know, it's the flower and the fruitage, the richness of the Spirit.
我想，你担心的都是这些圣诞节时的物质层面的事情，但你却说这关乎我的品格？
And I think, so you're worried about all these physical things which we do at Christmas, and yet you're saying it's about my character?
我们所谈论的一切，都是关于品格的吗？
Everything that we're talking about is about character?
如果我把这一点应用到圣诞节，那我就和你一样。
If I apply that to Christmas, I'm just like you.
我最记得的，是我们打包好要送给别人的玩具，或者我们为那些平时很少见面的人提供的服务。
The things that I remember the most are toys that we wrapped up to give to somebody else or the service that we gave to people who, you know, we didn't see very often.
比起我收到的礼物，我更记得这些事情。
Those are the kinds of things that I remember more than the gifts that I received.
我认为你和我之所以记得这些，是因为它们在我们内心所产生的影响。
And the reason I think that you and I remember those things is because of what it did inside of us.
它释放了我们内心深处那些重要的东西，而这些并不在于我们手中所握的有形之物。
It unlocked some of that flowering of what's important in our spirits, and it wasn't about the tangible thing we hold in our hand.
它关乎我们彼此之间交换的某种东西。
It's about something that we exchanged with each other.
我们以为自己是给予者，但最终，我们收获了对自己而言重要的东西。
We thought we were being a giver, and in the end, we received something that was important to ourselves.
因此，J.
And so that exchange that J.
鲁本·克拉克所谈论的这种交换，正在我们身上发生。
Reuben Clark talks about is happening to us.
我们既是给予者，也是接受者，它在强化我们内心中原本不知其需求的部分，却让我们更加富足。
We're both a giver and a receiver, and it's strengthening something in our spirit that we didn't know had a need, and yet it makes us richer.
所以我真的非常非常喜欢这个描述。
So I really, really love that description.
如果你不介意的话，我可以给你举个例子，我在书里也提到过，但今天早上我又想到了它。
If you don't mind, I can give you an example, and I talk about it in the book, but I was just thinking about it again this morning.
当我刚成为人道主义服务总监时，我根本不知道自己在做什么。
When I first became the director of humanitarian services, I didn't know what I was doing.
我当时太年轻了，也不是最合适的人选，我敢肯定很多人心里都在翻白眼，想：他们为什么选她？
I was too young and I wasn't the natural choice, and I'm sure a lot of people were just rolling their eyes thinking, Why did they choose her?
但我当时一起工作的一个人叫帕特里克·赖斯，你知道，他做我的工作简直轻而易举。
But a man that I worked with named Patrick Reiss, you know, he could have done my job at his little finger.
他什么都知道，对朱
He knew everything, and he knew all about J.
鲁本·克拉克和其他所有事情都了如指掌。
Reuben Clark and everything else.
但他并没有因此感到恼火，也没有想：他们为什么选她？
And instead of being irritated with that, you know, Why did they choose her?
他每天早上都会坐在我办公室里，问我一堆问题。
He would sit inside my office with me every morning and he would ask me a bunch of questions.
他会说：你觉得我们今天该做些什么？
He'd say, What do you think we ought to do today?
我会说：我不知道，帕特里克。
And I'd go, I don't know, Patrick.
你觉得我们今天该做什么？
What do you think we should do today?
他会说：听着，我们已经讨论过这个问题了。
And he would say, Look, you know, we've been talking about this.
你心里在想什么？
What's on your mind?
于是我回想一下，然后说点什么。
So I dig back in my mind and I'd say something.
他会说：好吧，如果你打算专注这个，我能为你做些什么？
Said, All right, if that's what you want to focus on, what can I do to help you?
他给我的礼物，不是评判我，而是信任我。
And the gift that he gave me, instead of judging me, was he trusted me.
他的座右铭就是为什么我在书里写到他：我对你问题的解决方案总是错的。
And his mantra this is why I wrote about him in the book what he would say, My solution to your problem will always be wrong.
你觉得你应该怎么做？
What do you think you should do?
我不相信自己。
And I didn't trust myself.
在帕特里克连续几个月问我‘你觉得最重要的是什么？’之后，
And after months of Patrick just asking me, What do you think is the most important thing?
我能怎么帮你？
How can I help you?
我开始相信自己了。
I started to trust myself.
帕特里克给了我这份礼物。
Patrick gave me that gift.
这是一份美好的礼物。
It was a wonderful gift.
他信任我成为那个我尚未成为的领导者，这帮助我成为了我想成为的领导者。
He trusted me to be the leader that I wasn't, and it helped me be the leader that I wanted to be.
我认为信任、尊重、尊严、钦佩，是我们彼此给予的最宝贵的礼物。
And I think trust, respect, dignity, admiration, those are some of the most valuable gifts that we give each other.
我喜欢你关于信任的那番话。
I love what you said about trust.
我觉得这确实是一份礼物，也是天父赐予我们的礼物。
And I think that that is such a gift, and it's a gift that heavenly father has given us.
对吧？
Right?
这正是他赐予我们自由意志、让我们来到世上的原因。
That's the reason that he sent us here with agency.
当我们把这份礼物给予他人时，我们就是在传递上帝赐予我们每个人的恩典。
And when we extend that gift to someone else, we're giving them something that God has given all of us.
你提到了尊严，你在整本书的多个地方都谈到了这一点。
You mentioned dignity, and that is something that you talk about throughout the book in multiple places.
你专门写了一章关于尊严的内容。
You have a chapter about dignity.
为什么保护尊严这个理念如此重要？
Why is this idea of safeguarding dignity so important?
尤其是在我们今天谈论圣诞节期间的服务时，我们如何确保我们所服务的人的尊严不受侵犯？
And especially today as we talk about service at Christmas time, how can we make sure that we're safeguarding the integrity of those that we serve?
谢谢你提出这个问题。
Thank you for asking that question.
这是个值得问的好问题。
It is the right question to ask.
当我们思考如何帮助他人时，很容易再次伤害他们，让他们重新感到自己是受害者。
When we think about how to help people, it's so easy to revictimize people and make them feel like they're victims all over again.
让我给你讲一个小故事，然后我会解释为什么这很重要。
Let me just tell you a little story, and then I'll tell you why it's important.
四十年前，我在芬兰当传教士，到达时正好是圣诞节期间。
I was a missionary in Finland forty years ago, and I got there right at Christmas time.
所以那里非常黑暗。
So it's very dark.
下午两点太阳就落山了。
The sun goes down at 02:00 in the afternoon.
天气冷得刺骨，而且我学这门语言非常吃力，根本听不懂。
It's freezing, freezing cold, and I'm struggling so hard with the language that it's very difficult for me to understand.
我在那里待了大约五周后，需要去剪头发。
And after I'd been there about, I don't know, five weeks, I need to get my haircut.
于是我去了一个从未去过的地方。
So I go to an unfamiliar place where I've never been before.
我的同伴坐在椅子上，而我正试图用芬兰语描述我想剪的发型。
My companion's sitting in the chair, and I'm trying to describe the haircut that I want in Finnish.
这些词我在传教士培训中心根本没学过。
Well, these are words I didn't learn in the MTC.
于是那位女士对我说：别担心，我知道你到底需要什么样的发型。
And so the woman says to me, she says, Don't worry, I know exactly what I think you need.
她说：我会让你看起来很棒。
She says, I'm going to make you look great.
于是我开始试着描述，让我告诉你我想要什么。
And I started to try and describe, Let me tell you what I want.
她说，我明白了。
And she says, I've got it.
于是她开始给我剪头发，我走出那家理发店时，看起来像琼·杰特。
And so she starts cutting my hair, and I walked out of that salon looking like Joan Jett.
那是1984年。
This is 1984.
我的头发完全是朋克风格，你知道的，全部竖起来。
My hair is just punk rock, you know, up to the top.
两侧剃光了，我简直吓坏了。
It's shaved on the side, and I am just horrified.
这根本不是我想要的样子。
That's not the thing that I wanted.
所以我戴了一顶羊毛帽，整整四个月直到头发长回来。
So I wore a wool cap, you know, for the rest of the four months till it grew out.
但我讲这个故事，是因为尽管这件事很有趣，而且她急于想听我用不太流利的语言描述我想要什么，我明白，对于那些我们试图帮助的人，我们有多容易犯同样的错误。
But I tell that story because as funny as that is, and she was impatient to try and listen to me describe what I wanted in a language that I didn't speak very well, I know how easy it is to do that for people who we are trying to help.
我们看着他们的处境，心想：哦，我知道你需要什么。
We look at their situation, we think, Oh, I know what you need.
你需要这个。
You need this.
然后我们就提供他们我们认为他们需要的东西，但这总是错的。
And then we offer them the thing that we have decided that they need, and it's always a mistake.
当我回顾《新约》时，我注意到耶稣经常提出这些问题，不只是《新约》，而是所有经文都如此。
And when I look back in the New Testament and I notice how often, not just the New Testament, all the scriptures, Jesus will ask these questions.
祂拥有神圣的先知能力，比我们自己更了解我们。
And He knows has godly prophetic abilities to know more about us than even we know ourselves.
但祂却向人们提出这样的问题。
But he offers this to people.
祂说：你们要什么？
He says, What seek ye?
你希望我为你做什么？
What will ye that I should do for you?
你想要什么？
What desirest thou?
他一遍又一遍地问类似的问题，因为这能让我们说出自己真正想要的东西，然后他才能回应。
He asks some version of that question over and over again because it allows us to come up with the thing that we want and then he can respond.
当你试图帮助别人并维护他们的尊严时，最重要的技能就是能够问：‘你想要什么？’
And that is the premier skill when you're trying to help somebody and preserve their dignity, to be able to say, What do you want?
我能为你提供什么样的帮助？
And what kind of help can I give you?
我会尊重你所要求的东西，即使它与我认为你需要的完全不同。
And I'll honor the thing that you ask for, even if it's completely different than the thing that I think you need.
我们明白这个原则，但我们在对待孩子、父母、邻居家的孩子、我们教区里的人时，却总是违背它，因为我们以为我们知道他们需要什么，于是就去帮他们。
And we understand that principle, but we go against it all the time with our kids, with our parents, with the kids in the neighborhood, with the people in our ward, because we think we know what they need and we'll help them.
我们跳过了询问他们想要什么、尊重他们的自主权，然后根据他们的要求去行动的这一步。
And we skip over that step of asking them what they want, preserving their agency, and then following up with what they ask for.
我非常喜欢这一点。
I love that.
我想谈谈我在书中注意到的一件事，我认为这在当今世界中非常重要，触及了许多人正在思考的问题。
I want to touch on something that I noticed and I think is so important throughout the book is kind of these things that touch on questions that a lot of people I think are asking right now in the world that we live in.
你提到过这样一段话：我有时会听到这样的问题，为什么全知全能的上帝会允许世界上有如此多的邪恶与苦难。
There's a part where you say this, I sometimes hear the question of why an all powerful God would allow so much evil and suffering in the world.
这在我看来是一种令人不安的被动式提问。
It strikes me as an uncomfortably passive inquiry.
对我而言，更有意义的问题是：为什么我们这些全知全能上帝的儿女，既然祂已赐下明确而神圣的诫命要彼此相爱，却仍容许世界上存在如此多的邪恶与苦难？
For me, the compelling question is why do we as children of an all powerful God who has given us strict and holy commandments to love one another permits so much evil and suffering in the world, end quote.
你在书的后面也谈到，面对世界上那些庞大的问题，人们很容易感到不知所措。
You also talk later in the book about how it is easy to feel overwhelmed by the enormity of the issues in our world.
我认为这正是我的问题所在。
And I think that tends to be my problem.
我只是觉得，事情太多了。
I'm just like, it's too much.
我只是关闭了自己，变得瘫痪了。
I just shut down, kind of become paralyzed.
但你提出了一些我觉得非常深刻的建议。
And but you offer a couple of suggestions that I thought were profound.
首先是你说要‘从小处着手’，其次是你去祈祷。
The first is that you say you, in quotes, go small, And then the second is that you pray.
你能跟我谈谈这两件事对你意味着什么吗？
Could you talk to me about what those two things mean to you?
我并不是想轻率地对待这个人们长久以来一直在问的问题：为什么世界上会有这么多苦难。
I wasn't trying to be glib about, you know, this age old question that people have of why is there so much suffering in the world.
我认为这是一个正当的问题。
I think it's a legitimate question.
但我同时也认为，经文告诉我们，这正是我们灵性成长的关键时刻，主说：我要让你自己做决定和选择。
But I also think that we know in scriptures that this is the point in our spiritual development that the Lord has said, I'm going to let you decide and choose.
我会给你一些指导。
I'm going give you some guidelines.
我把它们称为诫命。
I call them commandments.
它们会带给你幸福，并帮助事情顺利解决。
They will make you happy and they will help things work out.
但当这些诫命没有被遵守时，就会造成巨大的痛苦，而我们正在承受作为人类所造成的腐败所带来的苦难。
But when those are not followed, it creates a huge amount of suffering, and we're reaping that suffering from the corruption that we are living as human beings.
因此，对于像你我这样想做好事的人，当我们面对这些令人瘫痪的复杂问题时，比如我只是一个女人，我能做什么呢？
And so for people like you and me who want to do something good, but we get overwhelmed by these paralyzing, complicated questions when I feel like I'm just one woman, you know, what can I do?
举例来说，昨晚我对乌克兰的处境感到非常不安。
And the example is last night, I have been so stirred up about Ukraine's position.
他们被迫接受了一个由他人制定、却未征询他们意见的和平计划，而这个计划对他们的影响却是最大的。
They're being forced to accept a peace plan that was drawn up by other people without consulting them, but it impacts them the most of all.
我对此感到非常激动，晚上睡不着，心里很难过。
And I'm just stirred up by this, and I'm I can't sleep at night, and I'm I'm upset.
但即使借助教会的资源，我能做的事情也非常有限。
But there's very little that I can do, even with church resources.
我无法影响本周世界上正在发生的这个问题。
I cannot impact that issue that's happening, you know, this week in the world.
但我一生中发现的一件事是，虽然我无法影响乌克兰和平计划的进展，但我可以从小事做起。
But one of the things that I have discovered in my life is cannot impact what's happening about the Ukraine peace plan, but I can go smaller.
我可以联系住在我和我同住的北盐湖城的乌克兰人。
I can reach out to Ukrainians that are living in North Salt Lake where I live.
当我的社区里其他人被强行推着走时，我可以站出来为他们发声。
I can stand up when other people in my community are being ramrodded and I can be a voice for them.
因此，尽管我现在对这个大问题无能为力，但我可以将这个原则应用在更小的层面。
And so that issue, although I can't do much about the big issue right now, I can take that principle and I can apply it in smaller ways.
当我这样做的时候，它给了我经验，也给了我一点力量，让我能够对抗那些我称之为世界腐败影响的力量。
And as I do that, it gives me experience and it gives me a little bit of power so that I can push against, you know, some of those what I call corrupting influences in the world.
第二件事，比第一件事更有力量，就是我可以祈祷。
The second thing, and it's more powerful than the first, is this idea that I can pray.
人们很容易轻视祈祷，觉得是的，是的，我们都可以祈祷。
And it's easy to dismiss prayer as like, yes, yes, we can all pray.
但祈祷真的有力量，我在书中讲过一个故事：在10月7日袭击发生前，我曾访问以色列，那大概是2023年7月或8月。在我访问期间，我越过伯利恒，进入约旦河西岸，来到一座教堂，那里有一位天主教修女和她的姐妹们轮流在祭坛前24小时不间断地祈祷，为和平祈求。
But there's a real power in prayer, and I tell the story in the book about I was visiting Israel right before the October seventh attack, so this would have been probably July or August 2023, and as part of my visit, I crossed over into the West Bank past Bethlehem to a church where there is a Catholic nun and her sisters who they rotate and they take turns praying at an altar twenty four hours a day so that they are praying for peace.
很多人容易说：‘哦，看到修女坐在那里真温馨，但这真的能有什么用呢？’
And a lot of people, it's easy to say, Oh, you know, that's sweet to see a nun sit there, but what good is that really going to do?
你只是为和平祈祷。
You just pray for peace.
但我认为，当我们祈求天父介入那些我们完全无法掌控的事情时，其力量常常被我们低估了。
But I think we underestimate the power of when we ask the Father to work on things that we don't have any control over.
我相信这确实有真实的力量，我从《雅各书》第五章中得到这个信念。
I believe there's real power in that, and I take it from James five.
雅各是主耶稣的兄弟，同父异母的兄弟，后来成为耶路撒冷的主教，他在新约末尾写了一本非常短小的书。
James is the brother of the Lord Jesus, the half brother, and he becomes the bishop of Jerusalem, and he writes just a very short little book in the New Testament toward the end.
但第五章整章讲的都是：面对腐败，我该怎么做？
But chapter five, the whole chapter is What do I do in the face of corruption?
他一一列举了各种不同的情况。
And he lists, you know, he goes through and he lists all these different things.
富人们正在为自己的苦难哀嚎。
The rich men are now howling for the miseries.
他们的财富已经腐烂。
Their riches are corrupted.
他们的衣服被虫蛀了。
Their garments are moth eaten.
你们审判并杀害了义人，而他们并没有反抗你们。
You've condemned and killed the just and they didn't resist you.
人们心怀怨恨。
People have grudges.
他在这些经文中不断列举这些内容。
And he goes on and on in all these verses.
然后他说到第16节，说：你们要彼此认罪，互相代求，使你们可以得医治。
And then he gets down to verse 16 and he says, Confess your faults one to another and pray for one another that ye might be healed.
而这才是关键的部分。
And then this is the important part.
义人祈祷所发的力量是大有功效的。
The effectual, fervent prayer of a righteous person availeth much.
我真的相信这一点。
And I really believe in that.
耶稣说：你们祈求就必得着，叩门就必给你们开门。
Jesus says, If ask and you'll receive, knock and it shall be given unto you.
他在圣经中二十次、三十次这样说，而雅各也说这祷告必大有功效。
He says that twenty, thirty times in the scriptures, and James says this will avail much.
所以当我面对腐败、苦难和各种困境时，我在想我该做什么？
So when I'm wondering what do I do in the face of corruption, in the face of suffering, in the face of things?
我可以尽我所能去做一切。
I can do everything that's in my power to do.
然后，就像那位修女凭着她的信心一样，我可以跪下来向神祷告，说：求你介入吧？
And then like that, that nun in her faith, I can kneel and I can pray to God and say, Will you intervene?
我正用我的信心，求你以我无法做到的方式介入。
I'm using my faith to ask you to intervene in a way that I can't.
我相信，我身体里每一个基督徒的细胞都蕴含着这种力量。
And I believe with every Christian cell in my body, there's power in that.
这种力量能够带来超越我们自身能力的帮助与援助。
There's power to bring forth help and aid beyond what we are able to do.
这就是信心的力量。
And that's the power of faith.
当我无能为力时，它帮助了我。
That helps me when I can't do anything else.
我认为这又回到了最近一场关于想法与祈祷的大讨论，对吧。
I think it goes back to there's been this big conversation recently, right, about thoughts and prayers.
是的。
Yeah.
有些人说，想法和祈祷根本没什么用。
Where people are like, oh, the thoughts and prayers don't do anything.
但我非常喜欢你所说的：当我们把那些我们无法掌控的事情交托给全权的上帝，并献上我们唯一能给予的东西——我们的想法与祈祷时，其中蕴含着力量。
But I I love what you said about there being power in the things that we don't have any power over when we turn it over to an all powerful God and do offer the one thing that we have to give, which is our thoughts and prayers.
你谈到美国两党之间的分裂，每当我看到人们彼此激烈对抗时，我都会想到这一点。
You talk about the divisiveness in America between political parties, and I have to think every time that I see people just, like, jarring at each other.
我觉得，敌人看到我们如此互相敌对，一定很高兴。
I'm like, the adversary has to be stoked to see us just at each other's throats.
但你引用了吉米·卡特的话，他说：只要有机会，就要说一些关于我们国家的好话。
But you quote Jimmy Carter who said, whenever you have a chance, say something good about our country.
靠着上帝的帮助，为了我们国家的利益，现在是我们携手同心的时候了。
With God's help and for the sake of our nation, it is time for us to join hands in America.
我们都是美国人，绝不能忘记，公共利益是我们共同的关切，也是每个人的责任。
We are all Americans together, and we must not forget that the common good is our common interest and our individual responsibility.
你为什么说，现在比吉米·卡特当初说这句话时更需要重视这一点？
Why would you say that this is more important now than it may have even been when Jimmy Carter originally said it?
这个引述对我来说是书中最重要的部分之一。
It's one of the most important parts of the book for me, that quote.
我想说的是，在他总统任期的这个时候，吉米·卡特知道自己不会连任。
I want to say that at that point in his presidency, Jimmy Carter knew he wasn't going get reelected.
他知道，在自己连任机会耗尽之前，之前发生的一切。
He knew that, you know, what had gone on before his chances were over.
所以他本该谈论能源问题，但他却改用总统身份发表了一次关于这个其他话题的炉边谈话。
And so he was supposed to talk about energy, but he gave this fireside chat from the presidency on this other topic instead.
他的顾问们对此非常紧张。
And his advisors were very nervous about it.
你知道你要谈什么吗？
You know, what you going to talk about?
你为什么想谈这个？
Why do you want to talk about that?
但他已经没什么可失去的了。
But he didn't have anything to lose.
现在他要告诉你，他真正相信什么对我们的国家最好，因为他知道自己不会连任。
Now he's going to tell you what he really believes is best for our country because he knows he won't be reelected.
他是个信仰非常深厚的人，我认为他的一生都体现了这一点。
And he was a man of very deep faith, and I think he showed that throughout his long life.
他活到了一百岁。
He lived to be 100.
他和妻子结婚七十年了。
He and his wife were married for seventy years.
他非常节俭。
He was very frugal.
他的孙子谈到他们如何清洗塑料保鲜袋，然后在家里挂一个小架子晾干它们。
His grandson talks about how they washed plastic Ziploc bags out and had a little rack where they would dry them in their house.
他们一生都住在佐治亚州的普莱恩斯，他环顾世界，心想：好吧，这里有几件事我可以着手解决。
They lived in the same house all their lives in Plains, Georgia, and he looked around the world and he saw, All right, here's some things I can work on.
几内亚线虫。
Guinea worm.
这是一种可以通过教育根除的疾病。
That's a disease with education can be eradicated.
我认为去年这种疾病曾经导致数十万人死亡。
And I think last year there used to be hundreds of thousands of people die of this disease.
我认为去年有十四人死于这种疾病。
I think last year, fourteen people died.
这意义重大，因为吉米和罗莎琳·卡特所做的努力。
That is significant because of the work of Jimmy and Rosalyn Carter.
他们创造了这一切。
They created that.
他们关心可负担的住房。
They cared about affordable housing.
他们重视信仰作为根基。
They cared about faith as a foundation.
因此，当所有这些因素结合在一起，当他强调我们都是美国人，不能忘记共同利益是我们共同的关注点和每个人的责任时，美国的民主制度正是建立在彼此倾听与达成妥协的能力之上。
So when all of those things, knowing that, when he says that we're all Americans together and that we can't forget that the common good is our common interest and our individual responsibility, the American democratic institutions were founded on this ability to listen to each other and make a compromise.
让我们找到一个大家都能接受的方案。
Let's find something that we can all live with.
不幸的是，吉米·卡特说出这句话五十年后，我们正在丧失这种能力。
And unfortunately, fifty years after Jimmy Carter said that, we're losing that ability.
这种共同利益正在被个人利益所取代，因而逐渐被侵蚀。
It's being eroded because our lack of common interest is being superseded by our personal interest.
这绝对不能接受。
And that just can't be.
如果每个人都只追求个人利益，而不关心公共利益，这个国家将无法维系。
The country will not sustain if everyone is after their own personal interest and they don't care about the common good.
这不仅仅发生在我们的政治中。
And it's not just happening in our politics.
它也发生在我们的个人关系中。
It's happening in our personal relationships as well.
我们生活在一个所谓的‘取消文化’时代，但其实只要你不投我的票、不按我的方式信仰、不长得像我、不完全喜欢我，我就不能跟你做朋友。
We live in a time where I mean, we call it cancel culture, but it's just if you don't vote like me, if you don't worship like me, if you don't look like me, if you don't exactly like me, then I can't be your friend.
我不能跟你有任何往来。
I can't have anything to do with you.
这对我们的伤害非常大。
And that's really detrimental for us.
你知道吗，我们因为意见不合，正在失去那些维持了数十年的友谊。
You know, we're losing friendships that we've had for decades because we don't agree.
我以前也说过这一点。
And I've said this before.
盐湖城的活动家帕梅拉·阿特金森对立法者说：我有75%的时间不同意你的观点，但我依然喜欢你。
Pamela Atkinson, who's an activist here in Salt Lake City, says to legislatures, I disagree with you 75% of the time, but I still like you.
我依然尊重你作为一个人。
I still respect you as a human being.
我知道你持有这些观点背后有非常真挚的理由，即使我们意见不同，我也能尊重这一点。
I know that you have very heartfelt reasons for the views that you have, and I can respect that even if we don't agree.
你有辛克利总统，他一直强调，是的，问题很多，但我们要关注积极的一面。
You have President Hinckley, who was just all about, you know, yes, there's a lot of problems, but focus on what's good.
关注那些我们能够达成共识的正面事物，以此推动前进。
Focus on the positive things that we can agree on to move forward.
这才是逐步消除负面问题的方式。
That's how you chip away at the bad things.
你要找到我们可以达成共识的积极方面，以此推动前进。
You find the good things that we can agree on and to move forward.
所以我讲这些，是为了强调：我们不能忘记，公共利益是我们共同的关切，也是每个人的责任。
So I say all of that to really build on the idea that we can't forget that the common good is our common interest and our individual responsibility.
我们每个人都有自己的角色要扮演。
We each have roles to play.
你一开始提到，祈祷、想法和祈祷是有力量的。
And you started off by talking about, you know, prayers, thoughts and prayers are powerful.
它们确实有力量，但不能只是一句空话。
They are powerful, but they can't just be an empty promise.
我们必须用实际行动来支持它们，同时依靠思想和祈祷。
We have to back that up, everything we can, and then relying on the thoughts and prayers.
有时我觉得，在现代文化中，我们很容易只是说：‘我会为你祈祷’，却不愿在自己这一边付出努力。
And sometimes I think we get flicked a little bit in our modern culture of just saying, well, I'll just offer my thoughts and prayers without doing the work on my side.
我们必须两者兼顾。
We have to do both.
嗯，我认为有趣的是，也许我们确实无法做到，而你在书中多次提到这一点。
Well, and I think the interesting thing is that perhaps we can't and and you talk about this a lot in the book.
我们不能为远方的某个问题做些什么。
We can't do something for this issue somewhere else.
但如果我们想为那个问题献上我们的想法和祈祷，那就去就近的地方做点什么吧。
But if we want to offer our thoughts and prayers toward that issue, then go and do something that's closer to home.
我很喜欢你提到的观点：我们最有力的地方就是我们生活的地方。
So I love that you talk about we're most powerful where we live.
你能跟听众分享一些你看到的例子吗？特别是现在这个时节，圣诞节期间，我们在自己居住的地方反而更有效果？
Can you share with listeners ways that you've seen this, particularly, I think at this time of year, at Christmas time, that we're that we are more effective where we live?
我说我们最有力的地方是在我们生活的地方，这可能是个有争议的观点，因为人们立刻会说：我的社区并不像其他地方那样需要我。
It's a controversial thing that I'm saying that we're most powerful where we live because right away, immediately people say, my neighborhood doesn't need me as much as they need me over here.
我们自然会被远离我们的地方吸引。
And we're naturally drawn to places that are away from us.
那些地方很异域风情。
They're exotic.
它们对我们来说很有趣。
They're interesting to us.
你知道，我们喜欢旅行，去看那些东西。
You know, we like traveling and seeing those kinds of things.
我也喜欢。
And I do, too.
我不是说我不喜欢。
I'm not saying that I don't.
我的职业生涯非常精彩，因为我有过那些机会。
My career has been so interesting because I've had those chances.
但在这几十年从事这类工作的过程中，我逐渐明白，我们能提供的真正力量在于我们的存在，在于我们说这种语言、住在社区里。
But I have learned over the decades that I've done this kind of work, the real power of what we have to offer is our presence, the fact that we speak the language, the fact that we live in the neighborhood.
这对我们来说是个人化的。
It's personal to us.
我们一直在这里，可以亲自与人们互动。
We're here all of the time, and we can personally interact with people.
不是我们给予的东西。
It's not the things that we give.
不是卫生包、外套或课桌。
It's not a hygiene kit or a coat or a school desk.
不是那些有形的东西。
It's not the tangible things.
真正的力量在于J.
The real power goes back to what J.
鲁本·克拉克所说的话。
Reuben Clark was saying.
是我们之间相互的尊重与尊严的交流。
It's the exchange that we have of respect and dignity.
我给你讲一个我当传教士时发生的故事。
I'll tell you a story that happened to me when I was a missionary.
那是圣诞节期间，我们一直在教导一位大约23岁的年轻女性，她的家人——她的父母——邀请了传教士们共度圣诞节。
It was at Christmas time, and we had been teaching a young woman who was like 23 years old, and her family, her parents invited the missionaries for Christmas.
于是我们在平安夜去了，对他们来说邀请摩门教传教士是个大胆的决定。
And so we came on Christmas Eve, and weit was a bold decision on their part, you know, to invite the Mormon missionaries.
所以我们和他们一起做饭。
So we cooked with them.
我们开了个大会。
We had this big meeting.
他们点亮了圣诞树上的所有蜡烛。
They lit all the candles on the Christmas tree.
我们唱了所有的赞美诗。
We sang all the hymns.
能与我们分享这种文化的圣诞节真是太美好了，作为传教士我们原本根本无法接触到。
It really beautiful to share this cultural Christmas with us that we would have never had access to as missionaries.
然后她的父亲，一个总是看起来很悲伤的男人，在我们大约10点离开时对我说，他说他要熬夜读点东西。
And then her dad, who always just seemed like such a sad man, he said to me as we were leaving at around 10:00, he said, I'm going to stay up and read something all night.
他问，你能推荐一些经文里的内容吗？
And he said, Could you recommend something in the Scriptures?
告诉我该读什么。
Tell me what to read.
于是，作为一个称职的传教士，我从包里拿出一本《摩门经》，对他说：我们一直在跟您的女儿谈这本书，书中讲到了耶稣在美洲大陆的事迹。
So, as a good missionary, I pull out a Book of Mormon out of my bag and I say, We've been talking to your daughter about this book, and it talks about Jesus on the American continent.
您为什么不读一读这本书呢？
Why don't you read this?
于是我为他做了标记，把书给了他。
And so I marked it for him and I gave him the book.
第二天早上我们回来时，他的眼睛闪闪发亮。
We came back the next morning and his eyes were just shining.
他说：我整晚都没睡，一直在读这本书。
And he said, I stayed up all night reading this book.
他说：我得问你们一个问题。
He said, I have to ask you something.
我们所犯的罪，真的可以得到宽恕吗？
Is this really true that we can be forgiven for the sins that we've created?
我说，这是真的。
And I said, It is true.
然后他告诉我们，他说多年前，他开车带着儿子时喝醉了，撞上了一根灯杆，害死了自己的儿子。
And then he told us, he said, years ago, he was driving his son in the car and he was drunk and he hit a light pole and he killed his own son.
他只是痛哭流涕，说：如果我真的能为这件事获得宽恕，他说，我的整个人生都会不一样。
And he was just weeping, and he said, If it's possible that I can be forgiven for that, he said, My whole life is different.
我记得，你知道，我自己当时也还很年轻，但我记得自己怀着如此热切的见证。
And I remember as, you know, I'm just a young woman myself, but I remember bearing just this fervent testimony.
这是真的。
It is true.
你的人生完全可以改变。
Your whole life can change.
你能够被宽恕，摆脱那件让你如此悲伤的可怕事情。
You can be forgiven of that horrible thing that you're so sad about.
如果你坐在几百英里之外，从事一些关于物资和金钱的人道主义项目，你就不会有这样的互动机会，你必须亲身在场，才能拥有这样的交流。
You don't get those chances to have that kind of interaction if you're sitting hundreds of miles away, you know, working on some humanitarian project that is about stuff and money, you have to be present to have that interaction.
主会为你敞开道路，你会想：‘我生活中没有人像祂那样’，但你会感到惊讶。
And the Lord will open up avenues for you and you think, Well, I don't have anybody in my life like Him, you'll be surprised.
在你居住的小小马蹄形社区里，就有这样的人。
There are people in your little horseshoe neighborhood where you live.
在你的工作中，也有这样的人。
There are people at your work.
在你的支会里，也有这样的人。
There are people in your ward.
有一些老朋友，你已经很久没有联系了，他们正需要你内心所拥有的东西。
There are old friends that you haven't connected with for a while that need what you have to give inside you.
对我来说，这是我们能彼此给予的最有力的东西。
And to me, that is the most powerful thing we can give each other.
这关乎尊重、尊严、爱、见证和确信。
It's around respect, dignity, love, testimony, assurance.
我们通过一对一的个人关系，给予这些事物。
And we give those things one on one in personal relationships.
这是我们所能参与的最具力量的人道主义援助形式。
And that's the most powerful form of humanitarian aid that we can engage in.
我喜欢你所说的‘陪伴’这一点。
I love what you said about it's it's the being there.
我觉得有时候我们并没有这样想：通过往海外运送物资，我们实际上是在让自己错失那种真正改变施予者本身的东西。
And I think that sometimes we don't think of it that way of, like, by shipping something across the ocean, we're kind of almost cheating ourselves out of the thing that, like, changes you as a giver.
并不是说你从收集这些物品中得不到任何收获，但你失去了人与人之间的互动，那种面对面的交流。
And not that you can't get something from collecting those items, but you're not having that human element, the the face to face.
你说话的时候，让我回想起一段往事：我曾经在一个支会里，认识一位非常出色的女孩。
I as you were talking, it gave me a little flashback to I was in a ward and I had a girl in the ward who was amazing.
每个周末，她都在盐湖城地区为难民教授英语课。
And every weekend, she taught an English class to refugees here in the Salt Lake area.
有一天，她无法前来了。
And one day, she wasn't gonna be able to make it.
于是她问我是否能替她代课。
And so she asked me if I would go and sub for her class.
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于是我去了，那里有个可爱的女孩，她的家人不久前才移民过来。
And so I did, and there was this darling girl who her family had immigrated not long before.
我和他们聊了分享故事的事，比如能够表达自己的经历。
And I was talking to them about sharing their stories, like being able to articulate your story.
轮到她时，我问了她类似的问题：你能用一句话概括你的故事吗？
And I got to her and I said something like, you know, how would you sum up your story?
她回答说：我的故事没什么特别的。
And she said, well, my my story isn't much.
我看着她，心想：你在开玩笑吧？
And I was looking at her, and I'm like, are you kidding me?
你知道吗？
You know?
这让我开始反思自己，有时候我会轻视自己的经历，而我们每个人都会这样。
And it it made me think about myself and that sometimes I downplay my story and that we all do that.
这件事深深影响了我，之后我一直在想：我是不是也这样？
And it that really left an impact on me is that I I kept thinking after that, am I the same way?
你知道吗？
You know?
我是不是也只会说我的故事没什么了不起？
Do I just say my story isn't much?
这让我更愿意去分享了。
And it made me more inclined to share.
所以我认为，我们与他人之间的互动确实有能力改变我们。
And so I do think, like, we have these interactions with human beings, and it does have the ability to change us.
尤班克姊妹，有些人可能会感到惊讶，作为耶稣基督后期圣徒教会人道服务部门的负责人，您却在本书中用整整一章来讲述救世军及其卓越的贡献。
Sister Eubank, some people may be surprised that you, director of humanitarian services of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, spend nearly an entire chapter of this book talking about the Salvation Army and the great work that they've done.
每年这个时候，我们都能看到救世军的敲钟人。
We all see the Salvation Army bell ringers this time of year.
但您能跟我谈谈，为什么您在书中如此重视向救世军及其所做工作致意吗？
But talk to me about why it was so important to you to pay tribute to the Salvation Army and the work that they've done the way that you did in this book?
我在书中讲过一个故事，我的祖父母是从挪威移民过来的。
I tell the story in the book that my great grandparents were immigrants from Norway.
你知道，他们离开了挪威。
There was a you know, they left Norway.
他们抵达了加拿大，然后南下到了美国。
They made it to Canada, and then they dropped down into The United States.
于是他们住在北达科他州。
And so they were living in North Dakota.
他们很年轻，结了婚，有机会在蒙大拿州申请宅地。
And they were young, they got married, and they had the chance to homestead in Montana.
那大概是1906年、1910年左右吧。
This would have been like 1906, 1910, something like that.
于是他们获得了蒙大拿州的一千英亩土地。
And so they get a thousand acres in Montana.
他们打算实现美国梦。
They're going to live the American dream.
他们打算种植小麦。
They're going to plant wheat.
他们要盖一栋小房子。
They're going to have a little house.
他们要在镇上开一家商店。
They're going have a store in town.
这些挪威移民打算在美国好好打拼。
They're going to try and make it in America, these Norwegian immigrants.
他们非常兴奋。
And so they're super excited.
他们一开始就有了一个孩子，接着又生了第二个孩子。
And they start off and they have a baby and then they have a second baby.
他们为这两个儿子感到无比自豪。
They're so proud of these two sons.
然后，我曾祖父的名字叫埃伯特。
And then my great grandfather's name is Ebert.
他在田里捡石头，因为这片地还没开垦，田里到处都是冒出来的石头。
He's out in the field picking rocks because it's undeveloped, and so the farm field has a ton of rocks that come up.
他一边捡石头，一边建围栏，结果染上了猩红热，严重损害了心脏，最终去世了。
And he's picking them up and he's building a fence, and he contracts scarlet fever, and it weakens his heart so much that he dies.
现在，阿格尼斯拥有一千英亩土地和两个儿子，却根本无法维持这个牧场。
Now Agnes has a thousand acres, two boys, no way of making good on that ranch.
就在那时，股市崩盘了。
She's just and then the stock market crashes.
这是1929年，她实在撑不下去了。
So this is 1929, and she just can't do it.
于是她离开蒙大拿，搬去加利福尼亚，和妹妹住在一起。
So she leaves Montana and she goes to California, moves in with her sister.
家里没有其他收入来源，只有她的长子比尔能提供一点帮助。
And she doesn't have any money coming into the house except for Bill, who's her oldest boy.
他才12岁。
He's 12.
他有一份送报的工作。
He has a paper route.
所以你知道，他每天早上送报纸，其中一家客户用一袋甜甜圈支付他报酬。
So, you know, he delivers papers every morning, and one of the places pays him in a sack of donuts.
那是一家面包店，他每天早上都会带一袋甜甜圈回家。
It's a bakery, he gets a sack of donuts he brings home every morning.
但阿格尼斯担心孩子们营养不良。
But Agnes is worried that the boys aren't getting good nutrition.
他们每天都在吃甜甜圈。
They're eating donuts every day.
于是她跑遍洛杉矶的所有机构，为一位在大萧条时期挣扎的寡妇寻求食物援助。
And so she goes around to all the agencies in Los Angeles asking for food help for a widow in the middle of the Depression.
当他们得知她家在蒙大拿州有一座农场时，便说：‘我们不能帮你。’
And when they find out that she has this farm up in Montana, they're like, No, we can't help you.
还有其他许多没有农场的人需要帮助。
There's other people who don't have a farm.
他们还问：‘你为什么不把农场卖了呢？'
And they say, Why don't you sell the farm?
她说，这是孩子们的遗产。
And she said, It's the boy's inheritance.
这是他们父亲能留给他们的全部，只要我能撑过这场大萧条，这块地就会成为他们的生计。
It's all that their father can give to them, and it it will will be their livelihood if I could just hang on to it through the Depression.
他们说，很抱歉。
And they're like, Sorry.
有一天，比尔送完报纸回家，发现门廊上放着一箱罐装牛奶，上面写着是救世军送的。
And one day, Bill comes home from his paper route, and there's a case of canned milk on the porch, and it says it's from the Salvation Army.
救世军把牛奶送给了他们，这对他们来说是一份巨大的礼物。
And they had given it to them, and it's such a gift to them.
这是罐装牛奶，他们不用担心会变质，你知道的。
It's canned milk that they don't have to it's not going to spoil, you know.
他们可以慢慢喝，一共有24罐，这让他们感觉无比富足。
They can drink it at their leisure, and it's 24 cans, and it just felt like a richness to them.
救世军并没有向他们索取任何东西。
And The Salvation Army didn't require anything from them.
所以我跟你们说这些，因为这只不过是一箱来自救世军的牛奶。
So I tell you all this because, you know, it's just a case of milk from The Salvation Army.
但那个送报纸的男孩比尔，长大后经营了那片农场，种地，买下了他兄弟的份额。
But that boy, Bill, who had the paper route, he grew up, he ran that farm, he planted it, he bought out his brother.
这块地传给了我的母亲珍，又传给了我的兄弟姐妹们。
It got passed down to my mother, Jean, and it got passed down to, you know, my brothers and sisters.
我们度过了许多个夏天，在牧场干活，帮忙收割，完成小麦的收成。
We spent so many summers working on the ranch and helping with the harvest and finishing up the wheat.
它支撑了我的家族整整一百年。
It supported my family for a hundred years.
每年圣诞节，我妈妈都会分发20美元钞票，说：去把钱放进那些红色的救世军捐款箱里。
And every Christmas, my mom hands out $20 bills, and she says, Go put that in those red cuddles, you know, with The Salvation Army.
我们把钞票塞进去，总是很兴奋，因为没多少人会往里面放20美元。
We stuff our bills in there, and they're always excited because not a lot of people put $20 bills in there.
但这个故事在我们家族传承了一百年：当别人都不帮我们时，救世军却伸出了援手。
But it's this story that's been handed down for a hundred years in my family that when nobody else would help us, the Salvation Army would.
我在书中花这么多篇幅讲这个，是因为奥克斯会长可能在两三年前的一次演讲中说过，上帝正在使用各种各样的人来完成祂的工作。
And the reason I spend so much time on it in the book is President Oaks said in a talk maybe, I don't know, two or three years ago, he said, God is using many kinds of people to accomplish His work.
这项工作太多，单靠一个群体是完成不了的。
There's too much work for just one group to do.
我认为这对作为后期圣徒的我们来说非常有启发性。
And I think that that's really instructive for us as Latter day Saints.
上帝正在使用那些爱祂的人来完成祂的工作，这包括救世军，以及所有爱祂、愿意服事祂的人。
God is using people who love Him to do His work, and that includes the Salvation Army and any other, you know, people who love Him and want to serve Him.
我曾和L长老共进晚餐。
I was in a dinner with Elder L.
当时托姆·佩里还健在，那场晚餐是和正统派拉比们一起举行的。
Tom Perry when he was still alive, and it was with Orthodox rabbis.
我记得他拍着桌子说：我们希望天主教徒能成为更好的天主教徒。
And I remember he pounded on the table and he said, We want Catholics to be better Catholics.
我们希望犹太人能成为更好的犹太人。
We want Jews to be better Jews.
我们希望后期圣徒能成为更好的后期圣徒。
We want Latter day Saints to be better Latter day Saints.
我记得当时在想：真的吗？
And I remember thinking, We do?
我以为我们希望每个人都成为后期圣徒。
I thought we wanted everyone to be Latter day Saints.
他当时意识到的，正是奥克斯会长所教导的同一道理。
And he was recognizing that same thing that President Oaks is teaching.
世界基本上可以分为两类人：一类不信神且道德败坏，另一类信奉神。
The world is divided basically between people who don't believe in God and are corrupt and people who do believe in God.
因此，作为耶稣基督教会的成员，我们应该与任何爱神的人建立桥梁。
And so we, as members of Jesus Christ Church, we should be building bridges with anybody who loves God.
我最喜爱我们信仰的一点就是，我们追求一切美好、高尚、正面和值得称赞的事物。
And that's one of the things I love most about our faith is that we believe in seeking after anything that's lovely or virtuous or good report or praiseworthy.
我们追求这些美好的事物，并渴望与那些爱神并正在完成祂工作的人建立友谊。
We seek after those things and we want friendship with people who love God and are doing His work.
我的家人从中受益匪浅，我也在世界各地看到，当人们以爱邻舍的方式表达对上帝的爱时，所发生的美好事情。
My family benefited personally from that, and I've seen it all over the world, the good that happens because people are expressing their love of God in the way they love their neighbors.
你会笑的，但我记得有一年我往救世军铃铛募捐箱里投钱，是因为凯莉·克拉克森在为救世军工作。
Well, you'll laugh, but I think the one year that I dropped money in the Salvation Army bell ringers bucket was because Kelly Clarkson was working with the Salvation Army.
我当时是凯莉·克拉克森的超级粉丝。
And I was a really big Kelly Clarkson fan.
但我很喜欢你家人的这个故事。
But I love that story about your family.
我认为，也许不一定是救世军，但我们每个人都能回想起自己或祖先曾需要帮助的时刻，那时有人伸出了援手，而我们也可以努力找到方式将这份善意传递下去。
And I think that there, you know, it may not be the Salvation Army, but we can all point back to a time when we were in need, our ancestors were in need, someone reached out to them, and we can try to find a way to pay
它
it
下去。
forward.
书中有一句我特别喜欢的话，来自美国救世军总 commissioner 肯·霍德。
There's a quote in the book that I loved from the commissioner of the Salvation Army in The United States, Ken Hodder.
他的姓是这么念的吗？
Is that how you say his last name?
是的。
Uh-huh.
他说，当一个人开始怀有希望，感受到自己的处境可以改善，并找到可以信赖的人时，就像体内点燃了一枚助推火箭。
And he said, whenever someone begins to hope, when they sense that their circumstances can can improve, and when they find people in whom they can put their trust, it is like a booster rocket gets lit inside them.
这改变了所有的一切。
It changes everything.
除了对他们自身生活的影响外，这种希望还会对他们子女及其未来机会产生巨大影响，引述完毕。
And beyond the impact of their own life, it has an enormous influence on their children and their opportunities, end quote.
希望，尤班克姊妹，是我传教期间深深着迷的一个概念。
Hope is something, Sister Eubank, that I became obsessed with on my mission.
哪怕只有一丝希望，也能让人在一段时间内拥有坚持下去的动力。
The idea that just a glimmer of hope can give people something to ride for some period of time.
经文里多次提到希望。
And the scriptures talk a lot about hope.
我研读了所有这些经文。
And I I studied all of those scriptures.
我研读了所有能找到的关于希望的讲道。
I studied any talk I could get my hands on about hope.
因为我觉得作为一名传教士，你所提供的正是这种东西。
Because I felt like as a missionary, that was kind of what you were offering people.
你为什么说希望如此重要？我们在这个时节服务他人时，如何能传递希望？
Why would you say that hope is so important and how can what we do, especially at this time of the year to serve others, offer hope?
我喜欢你对这个主题如此着迷，并且如此深入地研究。
I like that you were obsessed with that and that you studied it so much.
我认为，如果你要研究什么，信仰、希望和仁爱是其基础。
I think if you're gonna study something, faith, hope, and charity are kind of the foundations of it.
我所有的同伴都可以证明这一点。
All all my companions could attest to this.
他们都说：‘没错，她没撒谎。’
They were like, yep, she's not lying.
上周五，我听了一个故事，讲的是一个人在主教仓库做志愿者时的经历。他说，他正在帮助一位外表看起来非常粗犷的人领取食物订单。
I heard a story last Friday from someone who was volunteering in one of the Bishop storehouses, and he said he was helping a really rough looking man who had come in get his food order.
这位男士好几天没洗澡了，看起来很狼狈。流程是：他们带着已经填好的两周食物订单进来，然后志愿者帮助他们找到仓库里需要的物品。
And the guy hadn't bathed for a while, looked really rough, and so the process is they come in with their food order that's been filled out for two weeks worth of food, and then the volunteer helps them kind of find what they need in the storehouse.
于是，他和这位男士从第一排货架开始挑选。
So he started on the very first aisle with this man.
第一样东西是牛肉炖菜。
The first thing was beef stew.
他伸手从货架上拿下那罐牛肉炖菜，递给那位男士，让他放进购物篮里。
So he reached up on the shelf and handed the man the beef stew so he could put it in the basket.
那位男士拿着罐头，看着它，突然泪流满面。
And the man held the can, he looked at it, and he burst into tears.
他无家可归，在街头流浪了很长时间。
And he had been homeless and living on the street such a long time.
他无法相信，自己竟然能走进主教仓库，有人亲手把食物递给他，而他能带着这些食物走出去。
He could not believe what it felt like to be in the bishop's storehouse and to have somebody handing him food that he was going to walk out of.
那个告诉我这个故事的志愿者说，那个男人手中握着的是一种希望——他能够拥有一个不同于以往的新生活，而这正是人们向他提供的帮助的开端，他可以借此改变自己。
And the man who was telling me, the volunteer who was telling me, he just said it was the hope that was in his hand that he could have a different life than the one he'd had before, and this was the beginning of the help that people were offering him that he could take advantage of.
你知道，有人在乎他。
It was, you know, somebody cared about him.
这是一种希望，或许能离开街头，修复人际关系，或者，我不知道，摆脱成瘾。
It was the hope of maybe getting off the street or repairing his relationships or, I don't know, leaving addiction behind.
但无论他陷入怎样的境地，耶稣基督的力量都远超这些势力。
But whatever created the situation that he was in, Jesus Christ is more powerful than those forces.
我认为圣诞节的意义在于纪念那份以婴儿形态降临的希望的力量。
And I think Christmas is about honoring the strength of the hope that came as a tiny little baby.
我们家都摆着耶稣诞生的场景，那里有一个小小的雕像，躺在干草做的马槽里，完全依赖着玛丽和约瑟。
You know, we all have nativities in our house, and there's this tiny little figure in a little manger of hay that is completely dependent on Mary and Joseph.
但那就是耶稣基督。
And yet that was Jesus Christ.
他来到世上，承担了所有的苦难，从而获得了全部的力量，让我们能够信靠他。
He came into the world and he took all suffering that gave him all power so that we can trust in him.
他赐给我们希望，无论发生过什么——无论是我们失去了儿子，毁掉了关系，还是成瘾彻底吞噬了我们——他都能胜过这一切。
And he gives us the hope that whatever has happened, the horrible, terrible things that we killed our son or that we've destroyed our relationships or addiction has just eaten us up, He can overcome all of that.
而这种从绝望中诞生的希望——即使我曾犯下滔天大错，我依然可以改变，可以重新生活——对我来说，这就是圣诞节最深的喜悦与礼物。
And that hope that gets born out of that, that I can be different, I can live differently no matter how badly I've messed up, To me, that is the ultimate joy and gift of Christmas.
如果我们能把这份希望传递给别人，成为那个递给他们一罐食物的人，或倾听他们的故事，或与他们一起读经，或邀请他们来我们餐桌前点燃这希望的火种，我们难道不幸运吗？
And if we can give it to somebody else, if we can be the one that's handing them the can or, you know, listening to their story or reading a scripture with them or inviting them to our table to spark the hope that starts, aren't we lucky?
能成为这样的人，成为耶稣基督的手，去向他人伸出援手，这难道不是赐给我们的恩典吗？
Isn't it a gift that is given to us that we get to be that person, the hands of Jesus Christ, to reach out to other people?
这正是我最爱的圣诞节意义，它与我们购买的东西毫无关系。
That's my favorite part about Christmas, And it has nothing to do with the things we buy.
它只关乎我们与身边人共同经历的那些事。
It's just about the things that we we get to do with the people in our circle.
说得太好了。
So well said.
非常感谢你。
Thank you so much.
我想问你一件事，书里有一段我特别喜欢。
I want to ask you, there was a part in the book that I loved.
我非常喜欢，昨晚还念给我丈夫听了。
I loved it so much that I read it aloud to my husband last night.
我不想跳过这一段。
And I don't want to skip over it.
所以它可能看起来有点突兀。
So it might seem a little bit out of place.
但我突然想到，不，其实它和我们正在讨论的话题非常相关。
But then I had the thought, no, it's actually very relevant to the conversation that we're having.
你提到一位对你影响深远的导师，名叫洛伊德，你和他合作过，在他去世前最后一次交谈中，他跟你谈到了繁衍和充满大地。
You talk about an influential mentor that you had that you worked with named Lloyd, and how he talked to you in one of your last conversations with him prior to his passing about multiplying and replenishing the earth.
你说你觉得，对一位年过五十仍单身的女性谈这个，有点奇怪。
And you said you thought that it was kind of an odd thing to talk about with a woman in her 50s who was still single.
但你意识到，这其实是你听过的最重要、最好的建议之一。
But you said that you realized that it it was so important and one of the best pieces of advice that anyone had ever given you.
你能跟我分享一下劳埃德关于繁衍和 replenishing 的想法吗？
I wondered if you could share a little bit of about Lloyd's thoughts about multiplying and replenishing.
我认为，特别是在节日期间，replenishing 这个概念非常重要，这样我们才不会精疲力尽。
And I think specifically this idea of replenishing is important during the holiday season so we don't get burned out.
你能跟我谈谈你对这一点的看法吗？
So could you share a little bit of your thoughts on that?
真希望每个人都能认识劳埃德·彭德尔顿。
I wish everybody would have known Lloyd Pendleton.
他就是这样一个人。
He was so type a.
他和家人去度假时，总会说：‘我只是坐在那里，太无聊了。’
He was just his family would go on vacations, and he would like, I I'm just so bored just sitting on the desk.
是的。
Yeah.
他就是个工作狂，只专注于他关心的事业。
He just I just he was a workaholic, and he just worked on causes that he cared about.
他热爱帮助别人，但从不休息。
He loved he loved helping people, but he never took breaks.
在他生命的最后阶段，Lloyd得了胰腺癌，他的妻子给我打了电话，说这可能是他最后一周了，他很想见你。
And in the end of his life, Lloyd got pancreatic cancer, and his wife called me and she said, this is probably his last week and he would love to see you.
于是我开了好几个小时的车去他家。
So I drove several hours down to his house.
当他妻子让我进去，我走进他所在的房间时，他一见到我就问：‘你对‘繁衍和充实大地’有什么看法？’
And when his wife let me in and I walked into the room where he was, he greets me with this, what do you know about multiplying and replenishing the earth?
我当时说：‘嗨，Lloyd。’
And I'm like, hello, Lloyd.
很高兴见到你。
Nice to see you.
但这正是我们的相处方式。
But this was our relationship.
我曾为他工作。
I worked for him.
他曾是我的老板，总是会给我一些发人深省的问题让我思考。
He'd been my boss, and he would always, you know, give me thought questions to think about.
他说：‘我一直在为你的到来做准备，还写了一些东西在便签纸上。’
And he said, I've been preparing for your visit, and I've written some things on on a legal pad.
他说：‘莎伦，你和我一样，都有工作过度、不懂休息的倾向。’
He said, Sharon, you have tendencies that I do to work too much and to not rest.
他说：‘我想和你谈谈这个问题。’
He said, I want to talk to you about this.
他说：‘‘繁衍并充实大地’，人人都以为这指的是孩子。’
He said, Multiplying and replenishing the earth, and everyone thinks that's about children.
他说：‘这确实和孩子有关，但我要告诉你它还意味着什么。’
He said, It's about children, but he said, I'm going tell you what else it's about.
这纯粹是他的性格使然。
This is just his personality.
他说：‘当我们付出能量时，我们就在繁衍，而我们被命令要繁衍。’
He said, When we give out energy, we multiply, and we're commanded to multiply.
我们被要求将事物取来并使其变得更好。
We're commanded to take things and make them better.
这是我们作为上帝子女的一部分本性。
That's part of who we are as children of God.
他说，但诫命也要求我们补充、等候、退后观察。
He said, But the commandment is to also replenish, to wait, to sit back, see.
他说，想想福音节奏中所蕴含的所有休息。
He said, Think about all the rest that are built into the rhythms of the gospel.
他说，我们每个星期天都休息。
He said, We rest every Sunday.
我们每晚都睡觉。
We sleep every night.
我们领受圣餐，悔改我们的罪。
We take the sacrament, repent of our sins.
我们有节日季节来补充精力。
We have the holiday season where we replenish.
她说，休整是融入我们节奏中的，因为如果我们一味地扩张、扩张、再扩张，就会耗尽自己。
She said, It's built into the rhythms that we replenish, because if we multiply, multiply, multiply, we burn out.
他说，我以前不知道这一点。
He said, I didn't know this.
他还说，如果我离开这个世界时能送你一份礼物，那就是这份礼物——休整是一种诫命。
And he said, If I could give you any gift as I'm leaving this earth, it would be this gift that it's a commandment to replenish.
他说，我希望你知道这一点。
He said, I want you to know this.
他说，除非你懂得休整，否则你无法成为一个好的扩张者。
He said, You can't be a good multiplier unless you replenish.
我非常感恩能从他那里听到这些，他告诉我休整是一种诫命，因为我们有时会忽略最重要的一环：停下来，回顾我们所做的一切，享受与我们并肩同行的人，庆祝我们完成的成就，然后再继续下一件事。
And I'm so grateful that I heard that from him and that he told me it's a commandment to do that, because we sometimes skip over the most important part of what we do to sit back and to look at what we've done and enjoy it and revel in the people that we did it with and celebrate the thing that we did before going on to the next thing.
我觉得我们有时会觉得，一味地前进、前进、再前进似乎更崇高，而忽略了休整与庆祝的完整循环。
I think we sometimes feel like it's more noble to just move, move, move without fulfilling the entire cycle of replenishing and celebrating that.
因此，我很感激从洛伊德那里学到这一点，这对我帮助很大。
So I was so grateful to learn that from Lloyd, and it's very helpful.
在这个季节，我们很容易疲于奔命，忘记这个季节真正的意义。
At this season, a time when we can just be run ragged and forget all about what the season's really about.
这个季节是关于和家人坐在一起，看着树上的灯饰，享受当下——你知道吗？在我们开始播客之前，你告诉我，你两岁的女儿觉得是她为一岁的妹妹布置了这棵树。
It's about sitting with your family and looking at the lights on the tree and enjoying, you know, you told me before we started the podcast that your two year old daughter felt like she created the tree for her one year old sister.
这真美。
That's beautiful.
我们全年都应该和她一起庆祝这一点。
And we should celebrate that with her all year long.
看看你为妹妹布置的这棵树。
Look at the tree that you created for your little sister.
当你说话的时候，我想起了玛丽，想到经文里提到她将这些事默存在心里。
I think that as you were talking, I thought about Mary and about how the scriptures talk about how she kept these things and pondered them in her heart.
如果她只是不停地往前赶，没有停下来思考和体会自己所经历和看到的一切，那会怎样呢？
And what if she had just kept going, you know, hadn't taken a chance to stop and think about what she was experiencing and seeing.
尤班克姐妹，我上周回去重读了你的圣诞灵修演讲，我必须说，这一直是我最喜爱的演讲之一，你在其中谈到了‘爱的纯净之光’，就是《平安夜》里的那句歌词。
Sister Eubank, I went back last week and reread your Christmas devotional talk, which I have to tell you is one of my all time favorites, where you talked about love's pure light, that line in Silent Night.
我非常喜欢这句歌词。
And I love that line.
而且我更喜欢你用小女孩的思维方式，把标点符号都去掉了。
And I love it even more the way that you took out kind of the punctuation in your in your little girl mind.
我认为在这一年中的这个时候，我们尤其应该成为那道光的传递者，当我们努力让自己的生活充满这纯净的光时，我们要意识到，这正是救主所珍视的，他也珍视我们身上的这份光。
And I think that at this time of year, it's so important for us to be conduits of that light and that as we seek to to fill our lives with that pure light that we we recognize that that is something that the savior loves and he loves that in us.
我想知道，当我们试图转向祂、在这个圣诞节与他人分享这道光时，你对如何最有效地以救主的方式服务他人，有什么最终的建议吗？
I wondered if you have any final thoughts about how we can most effectively serve others the way the Savior would as we seek to turn our hearts to him and share that light with other people this Christmas.
就像你研究希望那样，我一直在思考权力的问题，因为权力以及权力的缺失，正是当今世界许多人道主义需求和权力腐败的根源。
The way that you studied hope, I've thought a lot about power because power and the lack of power is creating a lot of the humanitarian needs in the world right now and the corruption of power.
我认为我们能做的最有力量的事，就是与他人分享我们所拥有的权力，因为上帝正是这样对我们做的。
I think one of the most powerful things that that we can do is to share the power we have with other people, because it's what God is doing with us.
耶稣基督因赎罪而获得了全部的权柄。
Jesus Christ received all power because of the atonement.
那么祂做了什么？
And what does he do?
他没有命令我们，而是与我们分享他的权能，并教导我们如何在他的帮助下变得有力量。
Instead of bossing us around, he shares his power with us and shows us how we can be powerful with his help.
因此，我们对耶稣基督信仰最有力的表达，就是保护和捍卫那些没有权力的人。
And so the most powerful expression of our faith in Jesus Christ is to protect and defend people who don't have any power.
你知道，在圣经中，耶稣在耶路撒冷和犹大地的小圈子里，向所有无力的人伸出了手。
And, you know, you see in the Scriptures Jesus reached out to everybody who was powerless in his little circle in Jerusalem Judea.
比如麻风病人、税吏、不洁净的妇女、外邦人、撒玛利亚人。
So the lepers, the tax collectors, the unclean women, the Gentiles, the Samaritans.
他所行的事迹，还有更多更多。
The list goes on and on about what he was doing.
但他的信息是：我来是为了让你们得生命，并且得的更丰盛，我要把美丽代替你们的灰烬。
But his message was, I'm come that you might have life and that you can have it abundantly, and I'm going give you beauty for your ashes.
我是你们可以信赖的光。
I'm the light that you can trust.
我们生活中周围都是这样的人，如果我们能努力去保护那些希望渺茫、没有支持圈、失去力量的人，这就是我们爱那纯净之光的方式。
And the people are all around us in our lives, and if we can try and defend somebody whose hope is low, who doesn't have a circle, whose power is gone, that's how we love pure light.
这就是我们表达对耶稣的爱的方式，祂是世上的光。
That's how we express our love of Jesus, who is the light of the world.
而我们里面的光也因此变得越来越明亮，并且照亮周围所有的人。
And that's how the light in us grows brighter and it spills over into all those other people.
所以，我可能把光的这个比喻说得不太准确了。
So I've probably mangled that analogy of light.
但祂爱纯光，祂本身就是纯光，并且允许我们被祂点燃，再将这光分享给他人，这就是整个循环。
But the fact that He loves pure light, that He is pure light, and that He allows us to get lit by Him and then share that light to other people, That's the whole cycle.
这就是生命的意义。
It's the meaning of life.
这就是一切之所以重要的原因。
It's what everything matters.
我非常感激耶稣是盼望，是光，也是爱。
And I really appreciate that Jesus is hope, He is light, and He is love.
而在圣诞节期间，这些是我们能给予的最重要的东西。
And those are the most important things that we can give at Christmas time.
这真是一个美丽的画面。
Which is such a beautiful visual.
它让我想到一些不同的传统，比如点燃一支蜡烛，然后把它传递给其他人。
It makes me think of like the different traditions where you light a candle and then you pass it on to someone else.
对我来说，这是一次非常有收获的对话。
This has been such a rewarding conversation for me.
非常感谢你抽出时间，尤班克姐妹。
And I so appreciate you taking the time, Sister Eubank.
我最后一个问题：对你来说，全心全意投入耶稣基督的福音意味着什么？
My last question for you is what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ?
在回答之前，摩根，我必须感谢你向这么多人提出这个问题。
Before I answer that, Morgan, I have to thank you for asking that question of so many people.
你知道，这个播客邀请了各种各样的人，而对这个问题的答案，我们都能出一本书了。
You know, the podcast features a variety of people, and the answer to that question, we could keep a book on that.
我觉得这是一个非常有力的问题。
I think it's been a really powerful question.
思考我为何全心投入耶稣基督的福音，对我很有帮助。
Was helpful for me to think about why I am all in in the gospel of Jesus Christ.
旧约里有一段经文。
There's a scripture in the Old Testament.
这段经文对犹太信仰的人很重要，对我个人也是如此。
It's important to people in the Jewish faith, but it's important in my life, too.
这段经文出自《弥迦书》。
It's in Micah.
我想是在第六章。
I think it's in chapter six.
经上说：‘世人哪，耶和华已指示你何为善。他向你所要的是什么呢？只要你行公义，好怜悯，存谦卑的心，与你的神同行。’
And he it says, He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good and what doth the Lord require of thee, to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
旧约中的这一训诫，最重要的是，新约中的耶稣向我们展示了如何实践这些。
And those that Old Testament injunction, the great thing is the New Testament, Jesus showed us how to do that.
他向我们展示了如何行公义、如何爱怜悯，以及如何谦卑地与我们的神同行。
He showed us how to do justly, how to love mercy and to walk humbly with our God.
他要求我们做的，就是爱神并彼此相爱。
And the thing that he asked us to do was to love God and love each other.
在耶稣基督的福音和复兴的各个方面中，我最感恩的是那些启示经文，它们向我展示了如何践行这些教导。
And of all the different aspects of the gospel of Jesus Christ and the restoration, I'm most grateful for the restoration scriptures that show me how to live that.
我该如何行公义？
How do I do what's just?
我该如何施怜悯？
How do I be merciful?
《摩门经》、《教义和圣约》、《无价珍珠》中的榜样，我一刻也不想离开。
And the examples from the Book of Mormon, from the Doctrine and Covenants, from the Pearl of Great Price, I don't ever want to live without.
关于国王本杰明，我刚读完关于他的内容，他说：如果你在为他人服务，你就是在为你的神服务。
To King Benjamin, I just finished reading about King Benjamin, who just said, If you're in the service of your fellow being, you're in the service of your God.
我为何会不想让这成为我生命的一部分？
Why would I ever not want to have that in my life?
难道我不感恩吗？因为《摩门经》，我才知道了这句话，它如此重要，教导我如何施怜悯、谦卑地与我的神同行。
Aren't I grateful that because of the Book of Mormon I know that little line because it's so important to teach me how to love mercy and walk humbly with my God.
我全心投入耶稣基督的福音，因为它有效，它让我快乐，它帮助了他人，而且当我 imperfectly 地实践它时，它让我变得更好。
I'm all in the gospel of Jesus Christ because it works, because it makes me happy, because it helps other people, and because as I live it imperfectly, it makes me better.
我永远不会放弃它。
And I'll never give that up.
我想为你鼓掌。
Well, I want to applaud you.
我读你的书时，一直在想，这太棒了，因为你是唯一一个因你的工作性质和以前的教会职责而拥有这些独特经历的人。
As I was reading your book, I kept thinking, this is so cool, because it is someone who has had these experiences that are so unique because of the nature of your job and your previous church calling.
你将这些专业知识——如果我不介意这么说的话——以一种让读者能够付诸实践的方式与我们分享。
And you've taken that expertise, if you don't mind me saying that, and have shared it with us in a way that makes it actionable for those readings.
因此，我非常感激你为这本书付出的努力，也感激你为教会所做的一切。
So I am so grateful to you for the work that you put in this book and also for all that you've done for the church.
你一直是我很好的榜样。
And you've just been such a great example to me.
非常感谢你，尤班克姊妹，祝你圣诞快乐。
So thank you so much, sister Eubank, and I hope you have a Merry Christmas.
你也是，摩根。
The same to you, Morgan.
谢谢。
Thank you.
我们非常感谢雪莉·尤班克姐妹今天做客我们的节目。
We are so grateful to sister Sharon Eubank for joining us on today's episode.
尤班克姐妹的新书《以伟大的爱做小事》现已在Deseret书店发售。
You can find sister Eubank's new book, Doing Small Things with Great Love in Deserette Bookstores now.
我们非常感谢德里克·坎贝尔以及Mix at Six工作室在今年每一期播客中给予的帮助。
We are so grateful to Derek Campbell of Mix at Six Studios for his help with this and every episode of this podcast this year.
我们也非常感谢您的收听。
And we are so grateful to you for listening.
祝您圣诞快乐，新年幸福，我们期待二月再与您相见。
We wish you a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, and we'll look forward to being with you again in February.
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