被拉黑背后的心理学

这个BBC播客在英国境外包含广告。

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside The UK.

欢迎来到幽灵图书馆。

Welcome to the haunted library.

你是来听故事的吗？

Have you come in search of a tale?

这个播客邀请你浏览书架，寻找那些在你离开后依然久久萦绕心头的故事。

This podcast invites you to browse the shelves and find stories that will linger long after you've left this place.

从

From

哥特式杰作到廉价惊悚小说，和我一起，科林·摩根，每周两期新节目。

gothic masterpieces to pulpy penny dreadfuls, join me, Colin Morgan, with new episodes twice a week.

在任意播客平台收听《闹鬼图书馆》。

Find The Haunted Library wherever you get your podcasts.

大家好。

Hi there.

我是克劳迪娅·哈蒙德。

I'm Claudia Hammond.

你正在收听的是《一切尽在思维中》的一期节目。

You're listening to an episode of All in the Mind.

这档节目每周更新，你可以在任何播客平台收听。

Episodes are released weekly wherever you get your podcasts.

不过如果你在英国，你可以比其他地方早整整一周听到最新一期。

But if you're in The UK, you can listen to the latest episodes a whole week earlier than anywhere else.

首先是在BBC Sounds上。

First on BBC Sounds.

你好。

Hello.

你有没有遇到过这种情况：你正在约会的人或者朋友突然毫无预兆地切断所有联系？

Have you ever had a situation where the person you're going out with or a friend suddenly stops all communication without warning?

很多人联系我们说他们有过这样的经历，还有人承认自己也曾主动断绝过与某人的联系。

Lots of you got in touch to say you have, and some of you have even admitted to cutting someone off yourself.

今天我们要聊的话题是‘断联’背后的心理学，为什么它会让人如此痛苦，以及人们为什么会这么做。

Well, today we are talking all about the psychology of ghosting, why it can be so distressing and why people do it.

本期节目全程由布鲁斯·克拉克博士做客，他是伦敦马雷斯利医院的顾问精神科医生，同时担任儿童与青少年健康临床主任。

And I'm joined for the whole show by Doctor Bruce Clark, a consultant psychiatrist and clinical director of child and adolescent health at the Maresley Hospital in London.

很高兴你今天能来。

Well I'm glad you turned up today.

你没有玩消失。

You didn't ghost us.

很高兴能来。

Pleased to be.

不是的。

No.

稍后我想问问你，被“断联”（ghosting）对年轻人，尤其是他们产生的影响，因为那种感觉真的挺强烈的，对吧？

Now later on, I want to ask you about the impact of ghosting, actually, on younger people in particular, because it can be really intense, can't it?

确实如此。

It can.

确实如此。

Absolutely.

我见过这两种情况，年轻人被突然断联，以及主动去突然断联别人。

I see it both sides, young people being ghosted and ghosting.

所以，是的，这确实是个实实在在的问题。

So, yes, it's a real issue.

不过突然断联的话题我们留到后面再说，因为我们要先从精神病性症状聊起。

Well, ghosting is for later because we are beginning with psychosis.

稍后我们会听到一段关于我前几天乘坐运河船的轻松经历，这趟船专门为有过类似遭遇的人提供支持。

And in a moment, we're gonna hear about a very relaxing trip I took the other day on a canal boat that supports people who've experienced it.

不过首先，Bruce，我想让我们真正搞清楚什么是精神病性障碍，以及它不是什么。

But first of all Bruce, I'd like us to get a real understanding of what psychosis is and perhaps what it isn't.

我们对它有哪些误解？

What do we get wrong about it?

有趣的是，源自心理健康领域的“精神病性”这个词，有时不知不觉地渗入了日常用语中，而且是以一种完全错误的方式被误用的。

Interestingly the word psychosis which emanates from mental health has sort of seeped into everyday usage sometimes and it seeped in in the most incorrect manner possible.

它经常被用来形容极端情况，比如杀人狂或极度愤怒、完全失控，但这根本不是它的意思。

It is often used as a parallel for extremes like homicidal or extremely angry, utterly uncontained, is not what it is about at all.

精神病不是一种心理健康诊断。

Psychosis isn't a mental health diagnosis.

精神病是某些心理健康状况的症状。

Psychosis is a symptom of certain mental health conditions.

所以，精神病是在某些心理健康状况下，一个人真正失去与日常现实的联系的那种体验。

And so psychosis is the experience in certain mental health conditions where a person really loses touch with everyday reality.

精神病的症状包括幻觉，比如听到没有人在场的声音。

The symptoms of psychosis include things such as hallucinations, so hearing voices when there is nobody there.

它还包括我们所说的妄想，这些是在普通社会中难以理解的信念。

It also includes things that we call delusions, which are beliefs that are hard to understand in ordinary society.

比如相信自己是一个历史人物，或者相信自己能飞。

So belief that you are a particular person from history or that you can fly.

这些都不是普通的信念体系。

Things that are just not ordinary belief systems.

所以就是跟日常现实完全脱节。

So a real disconnection with everyday reality.

这种跟现实失去联系的感觉，真的会让人非常痛苦。

And this losing connection with everyday reality can be really distressing

对当事人来说。

for people.

那种痛苦是非常深的。

Profoundly distressing.

它也是几种精神障碍的症状之一。

And a symptom of several mental health disorders.

所以它可能出现在重度抑郁症中。

So it can happen in severe depression.

也可能发生在我们所说的类精神分裂症、双相情感障碍中，或者由物质滥用引起。

It can happen in what we call schizophreniform disorders, bipolar disorder, or as a result of substance use.

好的，非常感谢布鲁斯，解释得非常清楚。

Well thank you for that Bruce, very clear there.

之前我答应过带大家体验一次乘船之旅，所以今天我想向大家介绍一下“Swingbridge运河船项目”。这个项目是为接受萨里和边境NHS信托机构早期精神病干预团队支持的人士而设立的。

Now I promised you a boat trip, so let me introduce the Swingbridge Canal Boat Project for people receiving support from the Early Intervention in Psychosis team at the Surrey and Borders NHS Trust.

这个项目由该信托机构的职业治疗师主导，并与萨里护理信托机构合作开展，后者负责提供船只和船长。

Now the project is led by the Trust's occupational therapists and delivered partnership with Surrey Care Trust, which provides the boats and the skippers.

这个项目的核心在于在患者精神病程的早期进行干预。Bruce，稍后我想请你谈谈这在实践层面意味着什么，以及它的实际效果如何。

Now it's all about intervening early in someone's psychosis journey and Bruce, I want to ask you about what that means in practical terms and how effective that is in a moment.

不过在此之前，我先去了River Way河段，在两位参与者的带领下登船体验了一番。

But first I headed to the River Way to climb on board with two participants as my guide.

17岁的罗杰，还有他之前的菲尔，是个厨师。

17 year old Roger and before him Phil, who's a chef.

这就是那艘船吗？

So is this the boat?

对，就是这艘船。

This is the boat.

很漂亮吧？

It's lovely isn't it?

而且这条运河就在吉尔福德火车站旁边，周围都是那些老旧的仓库建筑。

And the canal is right near the railway station in Guildford and there's all these old warehouse buildings.

这里真的很不错，对吧？

And it's really nice, isn't it?

还行吧。

Could be worse.

那你知道我们今天要去哪儿吗？

So do you know where we're gonna go today?

我们要往上游走。

We're heading off upstream.

我们会过一个船闸，然后再往前开一点，在上游停船，差不多是这样。

We're gonna hit a lock, and then we're just gonna go a little bit further on down and then park up more up, shall I say.

你以前就喜欢船吗？

Were you into boats before?

谈不上。

Not really.

没有。

No.

你觉得你现在算是个喜欢开窄船的人了吗？

Would you say you are a you are a narrowboating person now?

是的，我越来越喜欢了。

I am getting Yeah.

慢慢来，但很踏实。

Slowly but surely.

我喜欢它，因为那种感觉就是自由。

I like it because it's freedom.

你不用被困在家里。

You're not stuck at home.

那咱们赶紧上船吧。

Well, let's get on.

你能带我们简单参观一下里面吗？

And can you give us a quick tour inside?

当然可以。

Of course, you can.

小心碰头。

Mind my head on here.

我们进去吧。

And in we go.

哦，挺不错的。

Oh, it's nice.

里面挺宽敞的。

It's quite roomy.

那里面都有些什么呢？

So what have we got?

这儿就像个甲板，平时用来做培训教室。

This is, like, a deck that's hosting for training room.

所以这里既是大家接受培训的地方，也是聚会聊天的场所。

So this is where everybody does a bit of training as well as a get together.

这是我们的厨房。

This is our kitchen.

我们每天出来这里做饭。

So we come out and cook for the day.

哦，我看到已经有泡好的茶了。

Oh, it's cups of tea already being made, I see.

有备好的茶呢。对。

There's tea waiting Yeah.

为了

For

太棒了。

Excellent.

什么

What

我记得你叫……？

will your name on, I believe?

太棒了。

Excellent.

现在，艾伦，你是船员之一。

Now, Alan, you're one of the crew members.

我们正穿过吉尔福德的中区。

We're going right through the Middle Guildford there.

你能听到

You can hear the

我们刚才已经

We've just gone

看过了演员表。

through the cast.

市中心那边也有。

Town center there as well.

Claudia，你感觉怎么样？

How are you feeling, Claudia?

景色真美。

It's lovely.

你看。

Look.

天气也很好，很适合出行。

It's a nice day for it as well.

你看。

Look.

外面有人坐着，那边还有个酒吧，大家在喝酒聊天，后面也有人坐着。不过能真正在水上航行，感觉真好。

There's people sitting outside, a pub there, having drinks, people sitting on the back, but it's lovely to be actually on the water,

对吧？

isn't it?

这艘船叫‘宁静号’，名字还真没起错。

It's it's it's the boat is called tranquility, and it's actually true.

这种出行方式确实非常惬意、平静。

It is a very tranquil way of traveling.

河流向右拐，我们要离开河道，穿过船闸。

The river goes off to the right, and we are going to leave the river to go through the lock.

那我们现在要过船闸了。

So we're gonna do the lock now.

大家现在都在穿救生衣。

So everyone's just getting their life jackets on.

我觉得我也得穿一件。

So I think I'll get one of those too.

我准备好了，可以去船闸了。

So I'm all sorted, ready to go to the lock.

这个船闸已经开了，省了不少时间，对吧？

So this lock's open already, this saves time, isn't it?

我

I

喜欢水就这样流进来。

love the water just flowing in.

感觉就像我们真的弄出了个瀑布一样。

It's like we've made the waterfall happen.

趁着船正在过闸往上升，罗杰，我想我们能不能到这边来简单聊两句？

While the boat's just going up through the lock, I I wondered, Roger, if we could just go and have a quick chat over here.

这样可以吗？

Is that alright?

太好了。

Awesome.

你来参加这个乘船出游有多久了？

How long have you been coming on the boat trips?

到现在差不多一年了。

Around a year now.

刚开始的时候，我其实并没有那么入迷。

When I started, I wasn't into it as such.

我一直都很喜欢在水上的感觉。

I've always liked being on the water.

这对我来说是件新鲜事，还挺吓人的，尤其是因为里面有很多我不习惯的社交互动。

This was something new, and for me, that's quite scary, especially because it's like loads of social interactions that I'm not used to.

但现在到了这个阶段，我真的很喜欢。

But now where I'm at, I'm loving it.

是吗？

Are you?

我喜欢它是因为我们做了很多生态保护工作，也慢慢了解了水道的运作方式。

I'm loving it because we do a lot of conservation work and getting to know how a way of the water works.

最开心的绝对是开船，因为在我这个人生阶段，考虑到我的身体状况，我觉得自己还没准备好开车。

My highlight is definitely driving because at this stage in my life, due to my condition, I don't feel ready to drive a car.

你觉得到运河上来，待在水上，会觉得平静吗？

And do you find it peaceful coming out and being on the canal?

在水上的时候，那种感觉是别的地方比不了的。可能旁边有路过的人，也会有人在旁边看着你，你就会想：你们在看什么呢？

When you're on the water, there's not much else like it because you may have passers by, there may be people onlooking and you're like, what are you doing?

但其实就是那种随着水流移动的宁静感，你懂我的意思吗？

But actually, just that serene feeling of I'm moving with the water, you know what I mean?

感觉特别好。

It's lovely.

我最初是通过我的支持网络了解到这艘船的，这个网络主要是为有精神分裂症或曾经经历过心理健康问题的人提供的。

I first heard about the boat through my support network, which is for people with psychosis or have had mental health difficulties in the past.

我去过精神病病房，通过他们，我实际上获得了比生病时更多的机会，这挺奇怪的。

I went to a psych ward and through them I actually got more opportunities than I would if I wasn't unwell, which is quite strange.

你能简单描述一下精神分裂症的体验是什么样的吗？

And can you describe a bit about what the experience of psychosis has been like?

哇，第一个词就很有分量。

Wow, First word heavy.

确实很有分量，而且非常投入。

Definitely heavy, definitely full on.

我觉得这是一场不间断的、与自己较量的旅程。

I'd say it's a non stop journey of kind of battling with yourself.

至少对我来说就是这样。

That's what it was like for me at least.

我能想到的最好的形容方式，就是像在黑暗中行走，明明知道自己身在何处，却什么也看不见。

The best way I could describe it is walking around in the dark, knowing where you are, but not being able to see anything.

所以从意识层面来说，你脑子里很清楚：哦，我在这里，周围有人可以交谈，也能寻求帮助，但你处于一种极度专注的状态，以至于无法有意识地付出努力去求助。

So consciously, in the back of your head you're like, oh, I'm here, there are people around me that I can talk to, that I can get help from, but I'm in such a tunnel vision state that I can't consciously make the effort to ask for help.

这样解释能明白吗？

Does that make sense?

能明白，是的，确实能明白。

It does, yeah, it does.

那你当时是怎么意识到自己可能需要帮助的？

So how then did you recognize that perhaps you would benefit from having some help?

幸运的是，到了我这种情况，已经不得不去寻求帮助了。

Luckily in my case, it got to the point where I was forced into getting help.

就像所有围绕在精神分裂症周围的压力和负面情绪不断累积，直到最后必须由别人介入，把我从那种处境中解救出来。

Like all the pressure, all the negativity that surrounds psychosis just keeps building up to the point where somebody else has to take me out of the situation.

所以你现在是在服药吗？

So are you taking medication now that

是的。

makes Yeah.

所以我在吃药，不过具体吃什么我就不说了。

A So I'm taking I won't say what I'm taking.

一开始我特别否认，也很怀疑，因为我觉得我的问题应该由我自己来解决。精神失常不完全是心智的问题，我更觉得它是一种你偶然陷入的处境。

I was very much in denial at first, very skeptical because I feel like my problem should be mine to solve because psychosis is not necessarily it is a condition of the mind, but I would say it's more of a situation you happen to find yourself in.

这就像日常生活中的普通事情一样。

It's like an everyday thing.

你其实永远都摆脱不了它。

You you never really escape it.

你只是找到了一些应对策略，以及几乎可以忽略那些负面情绪的理由。

You just find coping strategies and reasons to almost ignore the negativity.

这算是你的应对策略之一，没错。

It's coming on this one of your coping strategies Definitely.

就像坐船一样。

Coming on the boat.

每周都有点盼头，真的能给你继续下去的动力。

Just having something to look forward to every week, like, just really gives you a reason to keep going.

看起来他们好像已经过船闸了，我们大概也该……

Well, it looks like they're through the lock now, we so should probably

走吧。

Let's go.

上去吧。

Go and get on.

现在我来船舱里见见坦姆辛·甘沙姆，她是“摇摆桥”项目的职业治疗师。

Now I've come into the galley to meet Tamsin Gansham, who's an occupational therapist for the Swing Bridge project.

你能跟我说说，让大家上船这个想法主要是出于什么考虑吗？

So can you tell me about what is the whole idea of people going out on a boat?

我是说，在船上待着感觉特别好。

I mean, being out on a boat is lovely.

很放松，特别惬意。

It's chilled, very relaxed.

这主要是关于社交康复的。

It's all about social recovery.

显然，我们服务下的每个人，很多人都很难在康复过程中处理社交方面的问题。

So obviously, everybody's under our service and lots of people really struggle with the social aspect of their recovery.

很多人变得非常孤僻，不愿意和别人说话。

Lots of people become very withdrawn, don't wanna talk to people.

而在这里，他们和认识的人一起在船上，可以逐渐熟悉起来，而且他们知道这是一个安全的空间。

And here, they're sort of on the boat with people that they know and can get to know and they know it's a safe space.

所以你们是出去一整天，看起来不只是坐在那里，对吧？

So you go out for the day and it it seems to be it's not just kinda sitting around, is it?

好像有很多活动让大家参与。

There seems to be lots of activities for everyone to do.

确实有很多事情可以做。

There is a lot to do.

我想你马上就能看到我们做的一些很棒的环保工作了。

I think you're about to get to see where we've done some lovely conservation work.

这挺有意思的。

So this is interesting.

原来你们还会下船去做别的事情啊。

So you do get off the boat and do other things as well.

具体是做什么呢？

What's the idea there?

沿着河道一路走，我们会下船做一些保护环境的活儿，帮衬一下当地社区。

All up and down the river way, we'll get off and do various conservation works to help with the local area.

这里有一种叫喜马拉雅 balsam 的入侵植物，我们会把它拔除，而且数量非常多。

So there is a invasive species called Himalayan balsam, which we pull out and there's lots and lots of it.

这个过程特别有成就感。

And it's very satisfying.

拔的时候咔嚓一声，很清脆。

It snaps very nicely.

听起来真不错。

I like the sound of this.

拔起来之后还要踩水，把根彻底踩烂。

Water and then we stomp on it once we pulled it all up.

特别爽。

It's great.

听起来挺有意思的。

Oh, fun.

那这些活动具体是怎么帮助那些有精神病性症状的人的呢？

So how does all of this then help with someone who is experiencing psychosis?

嗯，可以说是在方方面面都很有帮助。

Well, suppose in every single way.

它有助于社会层面的康复，还能帮他们提升技能，支持他们把在这里学到的改进方法应用到自己的生活和世界中。

The social recovery side of it and just building on their skills and supporting them to then put what they improve on here and work on here out into their into their life, into their world.

这能让他们感到更自在、更自信，从而在康复之路上继续前行。

And it helps them feel more comfortable and more confident to be able to move on in their recovery journey.

等一下。

Hold up.

这是喜马拉雅苔藓。

That's the Himalayan moss.

在这儿呢。

Here it is.

要不要捏碎它？

Do wanna crunch it?

哦，不错。

Oh, nice.

特别有成就感。

Very satisfying.

这感觉就像在嚼芹菜一样。

That is like celery.

我觉得目前这个可能是最棒的。

I think that might be the winner so far.

这对你现在的日常生活节奏有什么影响吗？

What difference has this made to kinda how your week goes now?

你出院了。

You're out of hospital.

它就像是让思绪慢下来，也让你前进的脚步慢下来，不管是从精神上还是实际行动上。

It's like just slows down the thoughts, slows down basically where you're going, literally and physically.

因为在所有的交谈和那些不算体力活、但很有意思的工作之间。

Because in between all the talking and in between all the not manual labor, but fun jobs that we do.

有时候我们就坐在那儿，享受平静水面的安宁，看鸭子游过。

There are times where we just sit and enjoy the serenity of the still water, the ducks going by.

你觉得你现在处于什么阶段？

Where would you say you're at now?

你知道的，接下来会发生什么，未来又会怎样？

You know, what happens next and and into the future?

这绝对是一场你每天仍然要打的硬仗。

It's definitely a battle that you still have to fight every day.

我得说，从过去的我到现在的我，差别是很大的。

I would say that from where I was to where I'm now, the difference is substantial.

这主要归功于我一直以来的支持网络。

And that is mostly because of the support network I've had.

比如，像坐船这样的活动，能让我有机会和他人交流自己的经历。

For example, having something like going on the boat, being able to talk through my experience with people.

药物确实能启动康复过程，但真正好转并不一定靠医生或专业人士。

Medicine definitely kick starts the process, but getting better isn't necessarily done by doctors or professionals.

关键还得靠自己。

It has to come from you.

我还是会担心自己会不会复发，或者重新陷入之前那种思维模式。但我知道每周都有人在那里，如果我再次感到挣扎，可以找人聊聊，这给了我很大的帮助。

I'm still afraid that I could relapse or go back into the same thought process that I did, but knowing that every week there's something there that if I am struggling again, I can talk to people, that helps.

现在，精神科医生布鲁斯·克拉克也还在我的演播室里。

Now, psychiatrist Bruce Clark is still here with me in the studio.

布鲁斯，我上次坐船的体验真的特别好。

And, Bruce, I had such a good trip on that boat.

说实话，那几个小时里，我感觉我们好像处于一个与日常生活隔绝的泡泡中。

Honestly, it felt as though for those few hours, we were in a kind of bubble away from daily life.

我能理解为什么大家跟我说他们很期待那一天，也觉得那里特别让人平静。

And I can see why people were telling me they really look forward to that day and why it feels so calming.

那艘船叫“宁静号”真是太合适了。

And Tranquility is the perfect name for that boat.

所以我要感谢罗杰、菲尔、塔姆辛、艾伦，以及“摇摆桥项目”的每一个人。

So my thanks to Roger, Phil, Tamsin, Alan and everyone from the Swing Bridge Project.

不过布鲁斯，我想听听你的看法。

But, Bruce, I wonder what you made of it.

我觉得非常棒。

I thought it was excellent.

听起来很平静，也很美好。

It sounded calming and lovely.

你自己都会想上船体验一下。

You sort of want to be on board that yourself.

而且说实话，我听着的时候觉得，这是一个非常好的例子，说明了要想让精神疾病的治疗效果达到最好，整个治疗方案里确实需要包含哪些内容。

And actually as I listened to it, it was a really beautiful example of the kinds of components that you absolutely do need to include in a whole treatment package that offers the best possible outcomes for psychosis.

所以患有精神病性障碍的人，我们知道他们通常会对良好的治疗产生非常积极的反应。

So people with psychotic disorders, we know that they will so often respond extremely well to good treatment.

这里有四个关键组成部分。

And there are four key components.

包括有助于缓解症状的药物、针对精神病的认知行为疗法、家庭及支持网络干预，最后是我认为BOAT项目重点投入的康复模式——帮助患者获得一种去污名化、有结构、按计划安排且富有参与感的日常生活体验。

There are medications that can be helpful, cognitive behavioral therapy for psychosis, family and support network interventions and then finally, which I think the BOAT project really lent into, is a sort of recovery model helping a person having a destigmatizing, structured, timetabled, engaging experience of everyday life.

我觉得这艘船完美地契合了这一理念。

And I thought the boat fitted into that so beautifully.

我脑海里一直浮现出那些在心理健康方面挣扎得最厉害的精神分裂症患者。

I found myself thinking about people with psychosis who really had the toughest time with their mental health.

只要待在那样宁静美好的环境里，不用一直谈论病情，而是和其他能理解你、懂你的人在一起，让你感到自在，愿意敞开心扉，这一点真的非常重要。

And just being in that lovely calm environment, not having to talk about psychosis all the time, but just being with other people who understand, get it and you can feel comfortable coming out and it's so important to do that.

对，这点非常明确。有些人告诉我，这是他们一周中唯一能出门的机会，是他们唯一会去做的事。而且虽然身处公共场所，但因为有船作为屏障，没人会主动过来搭话，这种若即若离的状态让他们觉得很舒服，效果非常好。

Yeah that was really clear and for some people were telling me it was the only time of the week where they got out, that this was the one thing they did and also that they were kind of out in public but without people coming up and talking to them because they were on the boat so they were kind of separate and that seemed to work really nicely.

关于早期干预这个理念，它的实际效果到底如何呢？

This whole idea of early intervention, how effective is it?

我们知道吗？

Do we know?

效果非常显著。

It is highly effective.

精神障碍通常是可以治疗的。

Psychotic disorders are so often treatable.

如果介入得早，就能产生很大的影响，而且见效很快。

If you get in there early you can make a really huge impact and actually very quickly.

不过要想达到最好的治疗效果，是有国家标准的。

But what we know to get the best possible outcomes, there are national standards.

我们必须在两周内介入。

We have to get in there within two weeks.

这是理想状态，也是大家努力的目标。

That's the ideal and that's what everyone drives at.

但经过这些年的摸索，我们对如何构建这套全面的干预方案越来越有心得。

But over years we've really refined and grown what we know creates that comprehensive package.

我在节目前面提到了四个组成部分。

So I mentioned the four components earlier in the show.

我们真的意识到，这不仅仅是开始用药的问题。

And we have really come to realize that this isn't just about starting medications.

药物可以消除幻觉等症状。

You can turn off things like hallucinations with medications.

但更重要的是，这是一个以康复为导向的旅程，让一个人参与到更贴近日常生活、能够维持正常生活的事情中去。

But it is that recovery based journey, engaging a person in something that is much more like and is going to maintain ordinary life.

这就是为什么这个船项目以及类似的项目，在治疗的四个组成部分中是非常重要的一个方面。

And that's why this boat project and things like it are a really important facet of those four components of treatment.

实际上，来自欧洲和美国的有力证据表明，如果你做对了，并且以结构化的方式构建，那么你希望看到的结果——一个人保持其生活轨迹，而不是生活在精神病或症状减轻的状态中——会好得多。

And actually there is really robust evidence from Europe and from The United States that if you get that right and build it in a structured way, the sorts of outcomes that you want to see where a person maintains their life trajectory rather than living with psychosis or living with attenuated symptoms is much better.

你还希望人们更好地了解精神病的哪些方面？

And what else would you like people to understand better about psychosis?

我认为，记住精神病既相当常见又可治疗，这一点非常重要，但更重要的是，我们经常听到恐怖故事、与精神病相关的可怕新闻，并且倾向于使用这种语言的通俗用法，将精神病描述为一个人无法理解、不同、邪恶、可怕、犯罪的人。

I think it's really important to remember that psychosis is both quite common, it's treatable, but really importantly we often hear about horror stories, news items that are horrific and relate to psychosis and lean into the lay use of this language that psychosis is a description of someone that you just can't understand that's different, evil, awful, criminal.

但精神病并不是这个意思。

And that's just not what psychosis means.

精神病患者其实和你我一样，只不过他们正在经历极端的心理健康问题。

People with psychosis are just like you and I but they are having an extreme mental health experience.

而且绝大多数这样的人也会和你我一样，他们经历的心理健康问题，我们完全能够帮助、支持和治疗。

And the vast majority of those people are going to remain like you and I with mental health experiences that we can really help support and treat.

谢谢你，布鲁斯。

Thanks Bruce.

还要感谢所有已经为2027年All in the Mind奖提交了提名的人。

And thanks to everyone who's already made nominations for the All in the Mind Awards 2027.

如果你有心理健康问题，想告诉我们你的故事，并感谢某个对你产生过影响的人或项目，那这就是你的机会。

If you have a mental health problem and would like to tell us your story and thank an individual or a project that has made a difference to you, this is your chance.

和往常一样，有三个类别。

As usual, there are three categories.

首先是个人奖。

First, the individual award.

这个人可以是朋友、亲戚、同事，只要是给过你很大支持的人就行。

This might be a friend, a relative, a colleague, anyone who's offered you significant support.

专业奖是颁给任何有影响力的专业人士或志愿者的，比如心理咨询师、职业治疗师，或者医生都可以。

The Professional Award is for any professional or volunteer who's had an impact, so it could be a counsellor, an occupational therapist, a doctor say.

还有一个项目奖，是给你参加过的、对你的生活带来积极改变的团体。

And then there's the Project category for a group you've attended that has transformed things for you.

如果你想提名某人，就去访问 bbc.co.ukallinthemindawards。

If you would like to nominate someone then head to bbc.co.ukallinthemindawards.

网站上会有相关条款和隐私声明。

You'll find the terms and conditions and the privacy notice on the website.

要提交提名的话，你必须年满18岁。

And you must be over 18 to send in a nomination.

报名截止到2027年8月1日星期五下午1点，但为什么不早点提交呢？

You have until 1PM on Friday 01/08/2027 to enter, but why not do it sooner?

现在，很多听众朋友都联系我们，想聊下一个话题——突然消失。

Now, so many of you have been in touch about our next topic ghosting.

这就是指有人突然不再跟你联系，没有任何解释，不回你的消息、邮件或电话，就这么无影无踪地消失了。

This is where someone suddenly stops communicating with you without any explanation, ignoring your messages or emails or phone calls, just disappearing without trace.

有时候人们觉得这是在网络时代约会中难免会遇到的事。心理学家也开始把它当作一个研究课题，通过它可以观察我们人类是如何面对被拒绝的。

It's sometimes seen as an inevitable part of dating in an online world and psychologists are turning to it as a topic of research which provides a window into how we humans cope with rejection.

那被人突然断联，这种经历会给我们带来什么影响呢？

So what does the experience of being ghosted do to us?

它有没有可能是不可以接受的呢？

Is it ever acceptable?

如果我们想拒绝别人，又该怎么做得更温和一些呢？

And if we want to reject someone, how can we do it more kindly?

社会心理学家吉莉·弗里德曼是美国马里兰州圣玛丽学院的副教授，她的研究方向就是断联和被拒绝。

Social psychologist Gilly Friedman is an associate professor at St Mary's College of Maryland in The US, and she studies ghosting and rejection.

你好，吉莉，欢迎来到《All in the Mind》。

Hi, Gilly, and welcome to All in the Mind.

在我们开始聊断联背后的心理之前，我想请你先听一下这个。

Now before we get into some psychology of ghosting, I'd like you to have a listen to this.

我十几岁的时候交往过一个女朋友，后来我直接消失了，直到今天我心里还是很愧疚。

I ghosted a girlfriend I went out with as a teenager, and the guilt is still with me today.

我那时候很害羞，现在也还是这样，不太自信，所以当她主动约我的时候，我还挺受宠若惊的。

I was and still am quite shy and lacking in confidence and so I was flattered when she asked me out.

不过她比我叛逆很多，我父母很担心，就给我下了最后通牒，让我跟她分手。

However she was a lot more rebellious than me and it resulted in my worried parents giving me an ultimatum to end the relationship.

我当时觉得只能分手，但实在没有勇气去联系她，把这件事说清楚。

I felt I had no option but to end it but but I didn't have the courage to contact her and have that difficult conversation.

直到现在我依然很内疚。

The guilt is still with me today.

我那样做真的很过分。

It was an awful thing to do.

我认识一对夫妇，关系很好，他们当初还帮我安顿到新国家，可后来他们突然就不跟我说话了。

A couple I knew well and helped me settle into a new country suddenly stopped talking to me.

他们就是不接我的电话，我发了封邮件问是不是我哪里惹他们不高兴了，他们也没回。

They just stopped answering calls and didn't respond to an email that I sent asking if I'd done something to upset them.

我本来以为我们关系很安全，所以突然被断联，对我来说真的很难接受。

I thought I was in a safe space, so the sudden ghosting for me was horrendous.

我觉得很羞耻，像是被暴露了，整个人都特别糟糕。

I felt shame, exposed, and generally a bit rubbish.

我把它归结为人生有时候就是这样，但奇怪的是，过了这么久，这件事还是让我耿耿于怀。

I've put it down to life happening that way sometimes, but it's very strange that after all that time, this particular situation sticks with me.

其实我也对别人断联过，但我认为在某些情况下这是情有可原的。

I actually have ghosted someone before, but I think it's justifiable in certain circumstances.

比如说，如果你觉得跟那个人根本没办法好好谈，他们不会真正听你说，也不会自我反思，更不会跟你各退一步，那再谈也没意义。

So for example, if you think it's not going to be possible to have a conversation with that person and for them to actually listen to you or show any self reflection and meet you in the middle, then it's just pointless.

我曾经被我最好的朋友断联，那段经历真的非常痛苦。

I've had a really painful experience of ghosting from my very best friend.

她真的是我这辈子认识的最好的人，我可以诚实地说，我非常爱她，就像爱我的姐妹一样。

She was the most wonderful person I've ever known really, and I can honestly say I absolutely loved her, just like my sisters.

后来事情慢慢变了，我们的关系破裂了，她就彻底不跟我联系了。

Things changed eventually and our relationship broke down and she stopped all communication.

那种感觉到现在还像失去了亲人一样。

It felt like a bereavement still does.

都过去十六年了，我还是很想她，真希望能再见到她一面。

And sixteen years on, I still miss her and I wish I could see her again.

我就想给她一个大大的拥抱，因为她给的拥抱特别温暖。

I just want to give her a big hug because she gave the best hugs.

非常感谢 Mike、Steph、Beth 和 Viv 分享你们的‘消失’经历。

Thank you to Mike, Steph, Beth and Viv for sharing your ghost stories there.

有趣的是，后来联系我们的‘放鸽子的人’比‘被放鸽子的人’还要多。该怎么说呢……

And interestingly, we had more ghosters who got in touch than, how shall I put it, ghosties.

吉莉，你对这些故事有什么看法？

And I wonder what you make of those stories, Gilly.

通常人们更不愿意承认自己放过别人鸽子，而不是说自己被别人放了鸽子。

People are usually more reluctant to say that they have ghosted than that they have been ghosted.

所以当你让大家分享经历时，看到相反的情况还挺有意思的。

So it's interesting that you're seeing the opposite when you ask people to tell their stories.

是的，大家其实在分享故事时都非常坦诚。

Yeah, people have been very honest actually in the stories they're telling us.

话说回来，断联并不是什么新鲜行为。

Now, a way, ghosting doesn't feel like a new behavior.

我相信这种事一直都有，但感觉现在确实更多了。

I'm sure this has been going on forever, but it does feel as though there's more of it about.

而且我们收到了很多听众的来信。

And we had so many listeners getting in touch.

现在这种现象是不是更普遍了？

Is this something that's happening more today?

这真的很难说。

It's really hard to say.

看起来确实更频繁了，但我觉得部分原因是现在这个话题特别受关注。

It definitely seems like it's happening more, but I think part of that is it's very salient nowadays.

你知道，科技确实加深了我们对断联的认识，让人觉得这种事发生得很多。

So, you know, technology has really fueled our awareness of ghosting and made it seem like it's happening a lot.

好，我们先说说人们为什么会这么做。

Well, let's start with why people do it.

有些‘幽灵’发来的邮件说，比如‘我并不自豪，但不得不这么做。’

And some of our emails from ghosts say things like, I'm not proud, but it had to be done.

有位听众把它比作撕创可贴。

One listener likened it to ripping off a plaster.

你发现人们有时会‘幽灵’别人的原因是什么？

What are the reasons that you've found for why people sometimes ghost other people?

我觉得原因很多，因人而异，也看情况，但我们在关于‘幽灵’的研究中看到的一些常见原因是，有时候这样做感觉更轻松。

I think there are a lot of different reasons depending on the person and the context, but some of the common reasons that we've seen in the ghosting literature are that it feels easier sometimes.

所以，如果一个人不知道说什么，那他们就可以什么都不说。

So if someone doesn't know what to say, then they can just not say anything.

而且想出合适的话来拒绝别人其实是个很大的挑战。

And coming up with the right words to reject someone is actually a really big challenge.

而‘幽灵’就消除了这个挑战，因为现在你什么都不用说了。

And ghosting takes away that challenge because now you don't have to say anything.

还有一些情况，人们觉得断联是常态，或者是最合理的做法。

There are also contexts in which people feel like ghosting is the norm or it's the thing that makes most sense to do.

比如在交友软件上，有研究表明，大家会说这就是这里的规矩。

So for example, on dating apps, there's been research showing that people say that, well, this is just what you do.

这个环境里大家都是这么做的。

That's how this context works.

另外，我们也研究过断联更安全这一观点。

And there's also, we've done some work looking at this idea that ghosting is safer.

所以如果你担心和某人起冲突，怕对方情绪上或身体上对你发火，那么保持距离、直接消失确实会让人觉得更安全，因为你不用直接面对他们。

So if you're concerned about a conflict with someone, you're concerned they're gonna lash out at you emotionally or physically, then keeping that distance and ghosting them can feel like the safer option because you're not putting yourself directly in their path.

我们收到很多邮件，讲述被突然断联的人有多痛苦。他们完全不知道对方是出了什么意外，还是故意不理自己，这种不确定性往往要持续很久。

Now we had lots of emails about really painful experiences of what it was like to be the person who's ghosted and to have no idea whether something terrible has happened to the other person or whether they're ignoring you, and are kind of left with that uncertainty, and often left with that uncertainty for ages.

这么说吧，虽然听起来像是个显而易见的问题，但你觉得这种行为对被甩的人心理影响有多大？

I mean, in a way, sounds like an obvious question, but what kind of psychological impact have you found it can have on the ghostee?

你会看到很多负面的情绪，对吧？

A lot of the negative emotions you would expect to see, right?

所以他们会感到难过，心里受伤，还会觉得不确定、焦虑、沮丧，甚至有点生气。

So they feel sad, they experience hurt feelings, they feel uncertainty and anxiety, frustration, some anger.

这些都是被拒绝后却不知道为什么时，很正常的心理反应。

So all the things that make sense when you've been rejected and you don't know why.

被突然断联最让人难受的一点，就是没有个明确的结果，而且在那段时间里，你总会忍不住怀疑：我是不是被拉黑了？还是对方只是没看手机？

One of the challenging things about being ghosted is that lack of closure and the sense that at least for some amount of time, you're questioning, have I been ghosted or is the person away from the phone?

或者他们是不是生病了？

Are they sick?

是出什么事了吗？

Did something happen?

那比起明确的拒绝，这种模棱两可的情况是不是更让人难受？

Is ambiguity worse than explicit rejection then?

看起来，人们从直接拒绝中恢复得比被冷暴力对待要快。

It seems like people recover more quickly from being directly rejected than from being ghosted.

所以，被冷暴力的影响似乎会持续更久。

So the effects of ghosting seem to linger.