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嗨。
Hi.
我是拉吉·潘贾比·约翰逊，赫芬顿邮报身份内容负责人。
I'm Raj Panjabi Johnson, head of identity content at HuffPost.
我是诺亚·米克尔森，赫芬顿邮报个人版负责人。
And I am Noah Mikkelsen, head of HuffPost personal.
欢迎来到《我做错了吗？》
Welcome to Am I Doing It Wrong?
这档节目探讨了我们在努力过好生活时所经历的种种人性焦虑。
The show that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
好了，诺亚。
Alright, Noah.
我有个有趣的问题想问你。
I have an interesting one for you.
好的。
Okay.
你是不是在错误地管理你的情绪？
Are you managing your emotions wrong?
绝对是的。
Absolutely.
我是巨蟹座。
I'm a Cancer.
我和另外两个巨蟹座住在一起，其中一个还是只狗。
I live in a house with two other Cancers, one of whom is a dog.
所以就是情绪叠着情绪，再叠着情绪。
So it's just emotions on top of emotions on top of emotions.
我要说一下，很多人可能会经常听到这句话，但我一月份就开始接受心理治疗了。
I will say, and people are gonna hear this a lot, but I started therapy in January.
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以已经十个月了。
So it's been ten months.
我爱做治疗。
I love therapy.
哦，很好。
Oh, good.
它帮助我管理情绪，但我还没达到目标。
And it's helping me to manage my emotions, but I'm not there.
我觉得我可能永远都达不到那个状态。
I don't think I'm gonna ever be there.
我真的很想了解更多关于如何做到这一点的方法。
And I would love to know more about how to do it.
我想我该问一下，你觉得你自己在这方面很糟糕吗？
I guess maybe I should ask, do you think you're bad at it?
那你丈夫对你怎么样？
And, what does your husband think about you
擅长这个？
being bad at it?
因为我觉得首先你在外人看来真的把情绪管理得很好
Because I have so many first, I wanna say you appear to to manage your emotions really well from
外面看是这样。
the outside.
是的。
Yes.
但内心却是一场风暴。
It's just a storm inside of here.
我的意思是，我完全理解。
I mean, I totally get it.
我不是那种迷信星座的人，但我是个天蝎座。
I I'm not an astrology girly, but I'm a Scorpio.
我丈夫也是天蝎座。
My husband's a Scorpio.
所以，我觉得刻板印象就是，情绪特别多。
So, like, I I feel like a stereotype is, like, also a lot of emotions.
是的。
Yeah.
你看。
Look.
我觉得我的情绪智力相当高。
I think I have a fairly high emotional intelligence.
我知道发生了什么。
Like, I know what's going on.
对。
Yeah.
我能够以最成熟、最健康的方式应对一切吗？
Am I able to react to everything in the most adult, well adjusted way?
嗯。
Mhmm.
不。
No.
我丈夫也会证实这一点。
And my husband will confirm.
我有时候想看着他，对他说：和我一起慌一下，好吗？
I sometimes wanna look at him and be like, panic with me, won't you?
就是，他会吗？
Like, I Will he?
不会。
No.
他不会。
He won't.
你只能自己一个人慌。
You're left to panic on your own.
一个人慌，而我真希望能学会少慌一点。
On my own, and I would love to learn to panic less.
不过我觉得这其实可能是好事。
I think that's actually probably good, though.
你不需要两个人都惊慌失措。
You don't need two people panicking.
不。
No.
所以你需要一个人就只是说：别慌。
So you need someone who's just gonna be like, no.
我们能搞定。
We got this.
卷饼上的酸奶油。
The sour cream on the burrito.
就是这样。
There you go.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这真令人兴奋，因为我们有一位最喜爱的嘉宾要回来了。
Well, this is exciting because we have one of our favorite guests coming back.
他是瑞安·马丁。
It's Ryan Martin.
他是愤怒学教授。
He is the anger professor.
我喜欢这个头衔。
I love that that's his title.
他是一名心理学家，威斯康星大学绿湾分校的院长，也是多本书的作者，包括我们今天要讨论的这本新书。
He is a psychologist, the dean at the University of Wisconsin Green Bay, and he's the author of many books, including a new one, the one we're gonna talk about today.
这本书叫《情绪捷径》。
It's called Emotional Hacks.
天哪。
Oh my god.
瑞安，帮帮我。
Help me, Ryan.
他就要来了。
He's gonna.
好的，瑞安。
Okay, Ryan.
非常感谢你来到我们这里。
Thank you so much for being here with us.
是的。
Yeah.
我非常高兴能来到这里。
I am thrilled to be here.
谢谢你们邀请我。
Thanks for having me.
我想从最开始说起。
I wanna start right at the beginning.
我们总是这么说，但我认为这是最好的起点。
We always say that, but I think it's the best place to start.
那么，情绪到底是什么？它们为我们做了什么？
So what the hell is an emotion and what do they do for us?
我们为什么需要情绪？
Why do we need emotions?
是的。
Yeah.
这是一个非常重大的问题。
So that's a big, big question.
我会尽量用最简单的方式回答它。
I'm gonna try and answer it as as simply as I can.
我会告诉你，心理学家们在这方面其实略有不同看法。
And and I I will tell you that psychologists actually differ on this a little bit.
所以我通常采用的定义是：我们认为情绪是一种心理状态，包含生理反应、认知或想法，以及行为或至少是行动倾向，比如想要做某事或以某种方式行动的冲动。
So the definition I tend to use is we think of them as a psychological state that includes physiology, cognitions or thoughts, and then behaviors or at least action tendencies, like a desire to do something or act in a certain way.
至于它们为我们做了什么，它们实际上是至关重要的信息来源。
And as far as what they do for us, they're actually super critical sources of information.
它们是你大脑提醒你当前处境的方式之一。
They're one of the ways that your brain alerts you to your circumstances.
因此，它们提醒你注意危险，这就是你可能会感到恐惧的原因。
So they alert you to danger and that's why you might feel fear.
它们提醒你注意不公平的对待，这就是你可能会感到愤怒，或意识到失去而感到悲伤的原因，等等。
They alert you to unfair treatment and that's why you might feel anger or loss and that's why you feel sad and so on.
然后，它们实际上为你应对这些处境提供了能量。
And then they actually provide you with some energy to respond to those circumstances.
因此，你感受到的生理激活会给你力量去对抗不公，或逃离让你害怕的事物，或寻找一种方式来弥补那种失去。
So the physiological activation you might feel gives you the energy to confront the injustice or to flee from the thing you're afraid of or to seek out, you know, a way to replace that loss.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
好的。
Okay.
明白了。
Alright.
所以你的新书确实触及了我们可以用科学来操控情绪这一事实或现实。
So your new book really does touch on the fact or the reality that we can hack our emotions using science.
我对此非常感兴趣，因为我觉得，用蕾切尔小姐的话说，我有时候情绪非常强烈。
I'm very interested in this because I feel like, you know, in the words of of miss Rachel, I have very big emotions sometimes.
我想操控它们。
I would like to hack them.
请多告诉我一些关于这个的内容。
Please tell me more about that.
是的。
Yeah.
所以这本书的核心观点是，我认为很多时候人们会陷入一种误区，认为改变情绪最好的方式是通过某种重大的改变。
So the idea around the book is that I I think a lot of times people fall into the trap of believing that the best way to change their emotions is through some sort of big change.
对吧？
Right?
他们会觉得，当我……的时候，我就会快乐。
And they're like, I'll be happy when.
我会在换一份工作时开心，或者搬新家时开心，或者谈恋爱时开心，或者毕业时开心，诸如此类。
I'll be happy when I get a different job, or I'll be happy when I move, or I'm in a relationship, or finish school, or whatever.
但事实上，这些大的改变往往并不是幸福的关键。
And the truth is that a lot of times those big changes aren't actually the key to happiness.
它们其实并不能真正让你感受不同，原因有几点。
They aren't really the key to feeling things differently, because for a couple reasons.
第一，也是最重要的原因，是这些大的改变通常会带来很多压力。
One, and probably the biggest reason, is that those big changes actually usually include a lot of stress.
所以，这些大的改变很多时候反而会引发压力。
So a lot of times those big changes are stress inducing.
因此，我想传达的一个关键点是，管理情绪最好的方式是通过大量微小的改变，或少数几个微小的改变。
So ultimately one of the things I'm trying to convey here is the best way to manage your emotions is through either lots of little changes or a handful of little changes.
人们谈论情绪时常常会说一个老生常谈的说法：你可以选择自己的感受。
A really cliched way that people tend to talk about emotions sometimes is you can choose how you feel.
你可以选择不生气。
You can choose not to be angry.
你可以选择快乐，或者随便怎样。
You can choose to be happy or whatever.
我不认为这真的成立，但我确实认为，你在日常生活中做出的许多选择都会影响你的感受。
And I don't actually think that's true, but I do think that you make lots of choices in your day to day life that affect how you feel.
所以这本书的核心是：这里有大量你可以做出的选择，它们会影响你的情绪——不一定总是积极的，但能以你希望的方式影响你的情绪。
And so this book is really about here are a lot of choices that you can make that will impact your emotions in not necessarily always a positive way, but in a way that you want to impact your emotions.
我非常喜欢这一点。
I love that.
这让我很有共鸣。
That resonates.
是的。
Yeah.
尤其是这个观点，我认为人们常常觉得自己对情绪毫无掌控力。
And especially the idea, I think so often people do feel like they don't have any agency or they don't have control over their emotions.
所以，这本书里有大约50个这样的小方法，它们确实能让你获得一些掌控感。
And so having these I think there are, what, 50 in the book, these little things that you can do that actually do give you some control.
但在我们深入这些之前，我想听听你在这本书中提到的一些注意事项，即我们不应当总是去干预自己的情绪，而且这些方法并不适用于所有情况。
But before we get into those, I wanna hear you do make some caveats in the book talking about how we shouldn't always hack our emotions or this doesn't pertain to certain things.
所以在我们贸然深入之前，关于情绪干预，我们应该了解哪些内容？有哪些领域是我们需要避开的？
So before we sort of jump off the cliff and get into this, what should we know about emotional hacking and maybe some of the areas that we want to steer clear of?
是的，我认为我首先要说的是，这本书并不是为应对严重或重大的心理健康问题而设计的，对吧？
Yeah, I think one of the first things I would say is that the book isn't designed to address serious or significant mental health problems, right?
当我们谈到抑郁症、创伤后应激障碍、广泛性焦虑时，这些都应当在专业人士的指导下进行处理。
So when we talk about depression, we talk about post traumatic stress disorder, when we talk about generalized anxiety, those are things that should be worked on with a professional.
我认为书中的一些方法，专业人士确实可以帮助人们运用。
I do think there are things that can, from the book, that practitioners should help people with.
有时我甚至觉得，专业人士往往会忽视某些我们其实可以着手改善的领域，但这并不是这本书的整体目的。
And sometimes I actually think that professionals sort of tend to neglect particular areas that we probably could be working on, but that isn't overall the point of the book.
所以一个非常重要的注意事项是，这本书并不打算取代人们的心理治疗。
So that's one really important caveat is this isn't intended to replace therapy for people.
但另一件重要的事情是，我也想承认，并非每个人都有条件去实践书中的全部50种方法。
The other big thing though is that I do want to acknowledge that not everyone has the privilege of doing all of 50 of these things.
我提到的一件事是健康饮食。
And so one of the things I talk about is healthy nutrition.
我提到的另一件事是获得良好的夜间睡眠。
One of the things I talk about is getting a good night's sleep.
能够做到这些，意味着你能接触到健康、有营养的食物。
Being able to do those things means that you have access to healthy, nutritious foods.
这意味着你能获得一个安全、舒适的睡眠环境。
It means you have health access to a safe, comfortable place to sleep.
并不是每个人都有这样的条件，我对此很清楚。
Not everybody has that, I'm aware of that.
因此，我认为指出不公正社会的后果之一是它也会对人们的心理健康造成影响，这一点很重要。
And so I do think it's important to point out that one of the consequences of an unjust society is that it takes a toll on people's mental well-being too.
我觉得这一点非常关键。
I think that's really important to note.
我们上次你来的时候聊过一点这个话题，瑞安，但还有你如何在世界上行动，以及你作为女性或有色人种被如何看待。
And we talked a little bit about this the last time you were here, Ryan, but, like, also how you move through the world and how you're perceived as a woman or as a person of color.
这真的改变了人们对你的反应，但我们稍后再深入讨论。
This changes really how people react to you, but we'll get more into that.
还有你的情绪，你知道的，你感受到的情绪。
And your emotional, you know, the the emotions that you're feeling as well.
当然。
Absolutely.
有什么想法冒出来吗？
What comes up?
是的。
Yeah.
当然。
Absolutely.
我很喜欢这个前提。
I I I love that caveat.
诺亚读过这本书，而我还没读。
And Noah has read the book, and I have not yet.
我也非常兴奋，所以我正在以一种全新的方式学习这些东西。
I'm so excited too, so I'm I'm learning about this stuff kind of fresh.
跟我讲讲你写的那种情绪工具包吧。
Tell me about your emotional hack pack that you write about.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得我希望人们思考的是拥有这样一个工具箱。
So I think what I want people to think about is is having this toolkit.
对吧？
Right?
一堆可以在特定时刻使用的各种情绪技巧。
So a a whole bunch of emotion hacks that they can use in particular at particular times.
管理情绪的关键在于理解，并非每个工具都适合每种情况，不同情境下你需要的东西可能完全不同。
And think the key to managing emotions is understanding that not every tool is right for every job and that what you need in one circumstance might be different than what you need in a different circumstance.
因此，情绪工具包的概念就是，你实际上拥有了一个背包，里面装满了各种技巧，随时可以在合适的时机和场合使用。
And so the idea of an emotional hack pack is that you've essentially got this backpack of hacks that you can use when the time and place strikes.
我认为我们在这个节目中经常学到的一点是，没有任何一种方法能适用于所有人，也没有什么万能的答案。
I think that's one thing we've learned so often on the show is that there is not one size fits all or one sort of golden answer to anything.
是的。
Yeah.
很多时候，拥有这些可以自由选择的工具，是非常了不起的一件事。
And a lot of times having these options that you can choose from, that is an amazing thing to do.
这是一种整体性的方法。
It's a holistic approach.
没错。
It is.
人们可能听我们这么说听烦了，因为我们总是这么说，但这就是现实。
Like, people are probably tired of hearing us say that because we do all the time, but that's just reality.
确实如此。
It's true.
而且这需要自我反省。
And it takes self examination.
对吧？
Right?
我认为这整件事的核心就在于，我们必须了解自己，才能知道如何调节情绪。
I think that's what this whole thing is about, that we have to understand ourselves in order to know how to regulate our emotions.
但当你面前摆着五十种选择，然后你可以这么说：好吧。
But having 50 of these things laid out before you, and then you can say, okay.
我知道这七件事是我想要去改善的，或者可能对我有帮助的。
I know that these seven things are things that I wanna work work on or that maybe help me.
我觉得这样很有用。
I feel like that is useful.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我有个小问题。
I have a quick question.
这50种方法中的一种，是不是像在电视里那种自我激励？比如，女性在职场中有时会感到某种情绪，然后去洗手间对自己说：‘我是个厉害的女强人。’
Is one of the 50, like, hyping yourself up, like, in situations on TV, like, say, like, women sometimes are feeling a type of way in the workplace, and then they'll go in the bathroom and be like, I'm a bad bitch.
我是个厉害的女强人。
I'm a bad bitch.
是的。
Yeah.
把这当作一种技巧使用。
Use that one of the hacks.
不一定是‘我是个厉害的女强人’这句话，但拥有一个座右铭确实被证明是有效的。事实上，我鼓励人们认真思考自己的座右铭是什么，因为有些比其他更有激励作用。
Not specifically, I'm a bad bitch, but but having a having a mantra is something that we know is effective, and honestly, one of the things I encourage people to do is to put a lot of thought into what that mantra is because some are more empowering than others.
有时候，我认为我们无意中选择了一个可能反而削弱信心的座右铭。
And sometimes we accidentally, I think, select a mantra that might even be a little bit disempowering.
当我们说‘事情就是这样’的时候，这是一种接受，但并不是每种情况都适合这种态度。
When we say things like it is what it is, that's a form of acceptance that maybe not every circumstance calls for.
也许对。
Maybe Yeah.
也许你需要一种能激励你以不同方式采取行动的口号。
Maybe you want something that will encourage you to take action in a different way.
创造改变。
Create change.
是的。
Yep.
瑞安，从科学角度来看，为什么这样的口号在心理学上对我们有帮助？
Ryan, why does a mantra like that from a scientific standpoint, why does that help us from a psychological?
因为我觉得，像这种情绪类的东西，很容易陷入网红和健康导师的领域。
Because I also think it's so easy with something like this, like emotions to get into this land of, like, influencers, wellness guides.
对。
Yeah.
很多这类人根本没有医学或心理学背景，只是在互联网上告诉人们该怎么做。
Where where a lot of these people have no actual medical or psychological background, and they're just on the Internet telling people to do things.
我不确定这是否总是那么有用。
And I don't know if that's always that useful.
那么，为什么像咒语这样的东西在心理上或科学上对我们有好处呢？
So why would something like a mantra actually psychologically or, you know, scientifically be good for us?
是的。
Yeah.
所以有两个原因，其中一个出人意料地简单。
So so there's two reasons, and one of them is oddly simple.
研究人员实际上研究过这个问题，他们只是让参与者反复念‘一’这个单词，不是整个短语，抱歉，就是‘一’这个字反复念。
So researchers actually looked at this question, and and all they had people do is utter the phrase one over and over, not even the phrase, sorry, the word one over and over.
他们发现，当人们这样做时，有助于集中注意力，并激活大脑中更积极的区域，相比不念任何词的情况。
And what they found is that when they did that, it helped people essentially focus and it activated the more positive parts of their brain than if they were to not utter a phrase.
他们特意选择了‘一’这个词，因为他们不希望任何带有灵性色彩的元素。
And they specifically selected the word one because they didn't want anything that had any sort of spiritual element to it.
所以，一方面，给人们一个专注的对象，就能避免他们去关注其他事情。
So that's one thing is that just giving people something to focus on keeps you from focusing on other things.
这就是其中一个原因。
So that's one piece of it.
但另一点是，你的情绪部分源于你自己讲述的故事。
But the other piece here is that your emotions are rooted in part in the stories you yourself.
没错。
That's right.
所以如果你对自己说‘我是个厉害的家伙’，这和你对自己说的其他话是完全不同的故事。
And so if you are telling yourself, I'm a bad bitch, that's a very different story than something else you could be telling yourself.
所以拥有这样的咒语，正是如此。
So having that mantra Exactly.
在那些时刻，拥有一个让你感到有力量的咒语或短语，可能会非常关键。
So having having that mantra or having that phrase that you find empowering in those moments can be really critical that way.
我刚刚想到那本关于火车的儿童读物，里面说‘我觉得我能行’。
I'm just thinking of the children's book about the train and saying, think I can.
我觉得我能行。
I think I can.
就像这个观念，至少对于某些年龄段的人来说，从一开始就深深印在脑海里：只要你相信，你就能做到。
And, like, how that was just embedded in least some people of a certain age's mind from the beginning in this idea, like, if you think it, you can do it.
是的。
Yes.
而且不仅仅是鼓励，还有安全感。
And even just, not just encouragement, but safety.
我知道很多瑜伽教练，当你进入婴儿式时，会让你说：我很好。
I know a lot of, yoga instructors, when you go into child's pose, will ask you to say, I'm okay.
或者只是呼气时说：我很好。
Or, like, just breathe out and say, I'm okay.
而我们对自己讲述的故事，就是你很安全。
And it's the story we're telling ourselves that is like, you're safe.
对。
Right.
你知道的？
You know?
创造你的现实。
Making your reality.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yeah.
这太真实了。
That's so true.
在我写这段话的时候，我开始思考，因为我过去常常使用一种比较被动的内心箴言。
As I was writing this, I started thinking because I actually tended to have one of those more maybe passive mantras.
所以我把我的箴言改成了‘做下一步该做的事’，这既是我对自己过去并非每个选择都正确的接纳，也是承认我依然可以做出下一个正确的选择。
And so I one of the things I I I changed mine to do the next right thing, which which is my way of kind of both embracing some acceptance of I haven't made every right choice up until now, but also acknowledging that I can make the next right choice.
而且这也让我在这件事上获得了一些主动权和自主性。
And and some giving myself some some agency around that and autonomy around that.
我非常喜欢这个说法。
I love that.
这很平衡。
It was balanced.
我们来聊聊一些技巧吧。
Let's get into some of the hacks.
对。
Yeah.
想先从刺激类技巧开始吗？
Wanna start with the the stimulus hacks.
这些技巧是针对什么的？
What are those addressing?
是的。
Yeah.
每当我们产生情绪时，其实都是三方面因素的交汇。
So anytime we emote, it's sort of a confluence of three different things.
其中一个是刺激，也就是我们所回应的事物。
There's a stimulus, which is the thing we are responding to.
还有一个是我们面对该刺激时的情绪状态。
There is our mood at the time of that stimulus.
所以我们饿了吗？
So are we hungry?
我们困了吗？
Are we sleepy?
我们是不是已经因为其他事情感到压力或生气了？
Are we already stressed about something or angry about something?
然后还有我们对那个刺激的解读。
And then there's our interpretation of that stimulus.
因此，所有的技巧也按照这些类别，以及一些其他类别进行了划分。
And so all the hacks are broken down into those categories as well as a few others.
所以刺激类技巧基本上是我们对日常生活中遇到的刺激所做出的选择。
So stimulus hacks are basically the choices we make around the stimuli that we encounter in our day to day life.
因此，举个简单的例子，我以前看的恐怖片比现在多。
And so there are things, for instance, and the very simple example I use is that I used to watch more horror movies than I do right now.
当我这么做时，我是在让焦虑和恐惧进入我的生活。
When I do that, I'm inviting a certain amount of anxiety and fear into my life.
这是一个大多数人能理解的明显例子，但我们在日常生活中实际上做出了大量选择。
And that's an obvious example that most people understand, but we actually make lots of choices in our day to day life.
我们消费多少新闻，是否观看体育赛事，以及我们如何与家人、朋友或同事互动。
How much news we consume, whether or not we watch sporting events, how we engage with our family or our friends or colleagues.
所有这些决定都会影响我们的情绪健康。
All of those are decisions we make that affect our emotional well-being.
我们可以比通常做得更加有意识地对待这些决定。
And we can be far more intentional about those decisions than we often are.
这不仅仅关乎我们是否做这些事，更关乎我们如何做这些事。
And it's not just a question of do we do those things, it's a question of how do we do those things.
我们是在感恩节刚过不久录制这段内容的。
So we're recording this shortly after Thanksgiving.
在那个时候，人们常常感觉被迫与那些未必相处融洽的家人共度时光，我们不仅可以决定是否去和家人相处，还可以决定如何去做。
That's a time where people often feel sort of, I think, forced to spend time with family that they don't necessarily get along with, we can make decisions not just about do I go spend time with my family, but how do I do it?
我能否提前告诉他们：今年我不想谈论政治？
Can I let them know in advance, I don't want to talk about politics this year?
我可以带个朋友一起去，这样我就有个可以依靠的伙伴吗？
Can I bring a friend so that I have a trusted person that I can engage with?
如果情况变得不舒服，或者我不想继续待下去，我能不能提前想好脱身的计划？
Can I have a plan to escape if things get uncomfortable or if I don't want to do this?
我能不能找到一些方法来分散自己的注意力？
Can I find ways to distract myself?
这些都是一些我称之为“刺激调节策略”的方法，我们可以思考自己是如何与世界互动的，以及这种互动方式是否有利于情绪健康。
Those are all some what I call stimulus hacks where we can think about how we're engaging in the world and whether or not we're doing so in a way that is emotionally healthy.
我非常喜欢这个观点。
I love that.
我觉得你所说的实际上涉及两条不同的路径。
And I I feel like what I'm hearing you say that there's actually two different sort of paths that we can take.
其中一条是，当我们面对可能让我们压力很大的刺激时，我们认为这是不可避免的。
One of them is if we have the stimulus that is is gonna be stressing us out, we think Inevitable.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
我们要找出更健康的方式来应对它。
We're gonna figure out how we can react to it in healthier ways.
另一条路则是尽量从一开始就避免这种刺激。
Then there's the other path, which is just maybe trying to avoid the stimulus in the first place.
我二十多岁的时候想出了这句座右铭。
I came up with this mantra, one of mine, when I was in my twenties.
也许我们以前在节目中聊过这个，拉吉。
And maybe we've talked about this, Raj, on the show.
我不确定。
I'm not sure.
但对我来说，当时我参加了所有这些我不太想去的活动和派对，因为我不去的话会感到内疚。
But the idea for me was I was going to all of these events and parties and things that I didn't really wanna go to because I felt guilty about not going to them.
是的。
Yeah.
但当我到了派对上，我就想：我不该在这里。
But then I get to the party, and I was like, I don't wanna be here.
我非常生气，觉得自己的时间被浪费了。
And I was so angry that I was wasting my time.
所以我总结出这个座右铭：你只能选择承受一点内疚，或者大量的愤怒。
So I came up with this mantra, and it is you can either have a little bit of guilt or a lot of anger.
现在，我不再参加那些我不想去的活动了。
And now I've stopped going to things that I don't wanna go to.
我仍然会出席那些对别人很重要的场合。
I still show up for things where it's really important to someone.
即使我更想待在家里看奈飞，是的。
And even if I'm like, I'd rather stay home and watch Netflix Yeah.
我也会去。
I will go.
但如果是一个我根本不认识谁的派对，没人会在意我是否到场，那我可能会有一点内疚，但不会为了不参加而生三个小时的气
But if it's like a party that I'm not gonna really know anyone, they're not gonna notice if I'm there or not, then I can feel a little guilty about not going, but I'm not gonna be there for three hours angry that
我想要。
I want.
一点点侵蚀你的灵魂。
Chip away at your soul.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我干脆从一开始就避开那种刺激或压力。
So I just avoided that that stimulus or that stress in the in the first place.
我不会等到身在其中时才想办法缓解它。
I'm not there finding ways to mitigate it when when I'm in the middle of it.
是的。
Yeah.
这说得通。
It makes sense.
是的。
Yeah.
我为你感到高兴。
I love that for you.
是的。
Yeah.
我也是。
Me too.
如果有人觉得能做到，我强烈建议他们去尝试。
I would I would highly suggest people take that on if they think they can.
我也是。
Same.
瑞安，你提到要稍微接纳恐惧进入你的生活。
And, Ryan, you mentioned inviting fear into your life a little bit.
嗯。
Mhmm.
在某种程度上，这也会是好事吗？
Can that also be a good thing in a certain way?
是的，确实有时如此。
Yeah, there are times.
也就是说，我想要做到的一点是，这充分说明了拥有多种工具的重要性，我要小心不要经常鼓励回避，因为回避确实可能导致其他问题。
Mean, one of the things I wanna be, and this really speaks to the importance of having lots of tools, I wanna be careful about the idea of encouraging just avoidance too regularly because avoidance can certainly lead to other kinds of problems.
这是个很好的观点。
That's a great point.
因此，我认为重要的一点是，人们确实需要学会——虽然我不是把它当作一种刺激行为来谈，但确实需要学会有时忍受一些不适。
And so one of the things that I do think is important is that people do need to learn to, and this isn't something I talk about as a stimulus act, but do need to learn to sit with some discomfort sometimes.
是的。
Yeah.
我们需要学会更好地挑战自己，不是制造大量不适，也不是多到会伤害我们或造成二次创伤，而是足够让我们逐渐适应这种感觉。
That we need to get maybe a little better at challenging ourselves, not a lot of discomfort, not so much that it causes us harm or re traumatizes us or anything like that, but enough that we can start to get used to some of that.
对我而言，最明显的例子常常出现在政治话题上。
For me, the most obvious example of this is oftentimes around politics.
这是一些我经常感到愤怒的事情，有时甚至到了我不再觉得沉溺其中是健康的状态。
This is something that I find myself regularly getting angry about and sometimes to a point that it doesn't feel healthy for me anymore to wallow in it too much.
但我也知道，完全回避所有时事对我而言也不健康，到了一定程度，我必须参与其中，才能成为一个有见识的人，并了解他人正在经历的事情等等。
But I also know that avoiding all sort of current events wouldn't be healthy for me either, that there's a point at which I need to engage with that sort of thing just to be an informed person and to acknowledge what people are going through and so on.
所以我一直在努力寻找一种平衡：既让自己接触那些我知道会让我生气的事情，同时也提醒自己要照顾好自己。
And so I'm always trying to sort of find that balance of exposing myself to things I know are going to make me angry and things that and while also saying trying to take care of myself.
我认为，就像我们一开始讨论的那样，能够回避某些事情本身也是一种特权。
I think too, like going back to what we talked about in the beginning, there's a privilege to being able to avoid some things.
如果你是一个有特定经济条件的白人、异性恋、顺性别男性，你说‘我不再看新闻了’，那对你来说没问题。
And so if you are a white, straight, cisgender man of certain means, and you're like, I'm not gonna look at the news anymore, like, that's great for you.
是的。
Yeah.
但那些身处边缘化群体、正经历这一切的人们，当有人剥夺他们的权利时，他们并不能随意选择无视。
But people in marginalized communities who are going through all of this, like, they don't just get to tune out when someone's taking their rights away.
你知道的。
You know?
所以我认为这一点也非常重要。
So I think that that's really important too.
我不去参加一个无聊的生日派对，你知道的，我只是想说，我的生活中有很多不适感。
Me not going to a dumb birthday party, you know, and I have I I just wanna say I have a lot of discomfort in my life.
我并不是在逃避不适。
I'm not avoiding discomfort.
是的。
Yep.
但我觉得这也是一个重要的观点。
But I think that's an important point too.
我认为，在当今的社会文化中，我们正在采取各种方式来避免参与，而这正导致孤独。
I think also in society culture now, we are taking a lot of whatever routes we can to not have to engage, and that's causing loneliness.
这导致了疏离。
That's causing disconnection.
所以我觉得，承受一点点不适，无论是社交场合还是其他情况，其实也是好事。
So I think saying a little bit of discomfort, whether that's a social social situation or what it is, like, that's a good thing too.
对。
Yeah.
我完全同意。
I totally agree.
而且我听到你说的是，能够同时处理这两种情况，比如适度地回避。
And I I'm hearing that that be able to do like, manage both, you know, a little bit of avoidance.
而且我认为，对于像我这样有焦虑症的人来说，我很容易把事情想得很糟。
And and I think for people with anxiety like myself, I can catastrophize a lot.
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以适度的回避对我来说真的很有帮助。
So a little bit of avoidance is really helpful to me.
嗯。
Mhmm.
如果我能保持一点距离，有时退一步，重新评估我与让我困扰的事物之间的关系。
If I can take a little distance manage to take a little distance sometimes, just to reevaluate my relationship with the thing that's upsetting me.
对。
Right.
对吧？
Right?
非常有帮助。
Super helpful.
是的。
Yeah.
我还要补充一点，也就是说，这正是为什么拥有多种应对工具如此重要——我们都知道，稍后在书中我会谈到建立社交网络的重要性，对吧？
What I'll add too, I mean, is this is where, again, I think having lots of tools is so important that one of the things we know is that, so later on in the book, I'll talk about the importance of having a social network, right?
你的社交网络就是你可以依靠的人，或者那些能来帮助你的人。
That your social network is who you can rely on for things or people who can come and help you.
建立社交网络必然要求我们走出家门，以真正有意义的方式与人互动，而这一点有时恰恰是我们提到孤独时所面临的障碍；我有时在学生身上看到这种情况，他们非常不愿意外出与世界互动，但结果就是，当他们需要依靠他人时，能依赖的人却更少了。
Well, having a social network necessarily requires us to get out into the world and to engage with people in a really meaningful way and sometimes that's the thing I mentioned because we're talking about loneliness, that some of the decisions we make discourage us from and I see this sometimes with my students, they're really reluctant to want to go out and engage with the world, but then what that means is that they have fewer people they can rely on when they need to rely on people.
因此，弄清楚什么时候该抽身退出、什么时候该积极参与，是培养情绪成熟认知的一部分。
And so trying to figure out when do I check out and when do I engage is is part of sort of developing that, emotionally mature understanding.
在同样的旅程中，让我们谈谈当你感受到负面情绪时，什么是健康的转移注意力方式。
And on that same journey, let's talk about what a healthy distraction is when you are feeling a negative emotion.
明白吗？
Okay?
因为我用过很多种消遣方式。
Because I have a number of distractions that I employ.
有些是健康的，有些无疑很糟糕。
Some are healthy, some are undoubtedly terrible.
明白吗？
Okay?
比如，有些晚上我回家后，看了太多新闻，发生了什么事什么的。
Like, some nights I'll come home and I have read too, like, too much in the news and like something's happening and whatever.
我就想，现在真想喝一杯威士忌。
And I'm like, I would love a scotch right now.
就直接喝，别加冰块。
Like, just no ice cubes just straight to the head.
对吧？
Right?
展开剩余字幕（还有 451 条）
而且它会麻痹你，暂时管用。
And it not it it, like, numbs you and it does the trick temporarily.
对吧？
Right?
我觉得一个更健康的消遣方式是给我最好的朋友打电话。
I would say a healthier distraction is call my best friend.
对。
Right.
让她提醒我曾经发生过的那些事，比如a、b和c，然后我们就会笑到流泪，持续五到十分钟。
Ask her to remind me about the time that a, b, and c happened, and then we'd, like, laugh till we cry for five, ten minutes.
告诉我一些其他健康的消遣方式吧，我觉得我大部分都是不健康的。
Tell me some more healthy distractions because I think most of mine are unhealthy.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
一般来说，我们确实需要注意饮食和饮水。
As a as a general rule, we gotta watch what we eat and drink as part of for for sure.
但绝对如此，我喜欢能打电话给朋友、社交互动，同时提醒我一些X、Y或Z事情的想法。
But absolutely, I mean, I I love the idea of being able to call a friend and socialize and also remind me of X, Y, or Z.
看一部剧，或者甚至只是短视频片段，我实际上在电脑上保存了一些来自YouTube的励志片段，每当我情绪低落时就可以看看。
Having a show or even like short video clips, I actually save on my computer some sort of motivating clips from YouTube that I can just go check out every now and then when I'm feeling down.
我最近开始涂色了。
I recently started coloring.
我不是个好画家，但我发现我的大脑很难真正休息，尽管我非常希望它能休息。
Am not a good artist, but I found that I was having a hard time my brain doesn't like rest as much as I want it to.
所以我开始做的一件事是买了一本成人涂色书，这名字听起来有点叛逆，但其实没那么夸张。
And so one of the things I started doing was I got an adult coloring book, which is not as naughty as it sounds.
我每天就花十分钟涂色，这有点像在念诵咒语。
And I started just doing that for ten minutes a day as a way of sort of giving me some it's kind of like having a mantra.
它让我能专注于其他事情，而不是工作、问题或政治之类的东西。
It gives me something to focus on other than work or problems or politics or whatever.
所以我认为找到那些能成为习惯的活动很重要，有一项有趣的研究是关于在大自然中度过时间的。
And so I think finding those activities that can be a thing, there's this fascinating study about spending time in nature.
我们现在知道，在大自然中度过时间对你有好处。
Now we know spending time in nature is good for you.
我们知道确实如此。
We know it is.
它对你的心理健康和情绪福祉都非常有益。
It's great for your mental health and great for your emotional well-being.
然而，有一项研究更进一步，让一些人去大自然中度过时间，同时让另一些人去大自然中观鸟。
However, there's one study that took it a step further and said they had people go spend time in nature and then they had other people go spend time in nature and go bird watching.
他们发现，观鸟的人比单纯在大自然中漫步受益更多，因为他们给自己找到了专注的对象。
And what they found is that the people who were bird watching benefited even more than just spending time in nature, and that's because they were giving themselves something to focus on.
他们身处大自然，却不再想着工作，而是专注于观察鸟类。
Instead of being in nature but then still thinking about work, they were thinking about birds.
这种专注让他们获得了更显著的益处。
And that focusing on that gave them, meant that they got those benefits even more.
但现在不一定非得是观鸟。
Now it doesn't have to be birds.
也可能是识别植物。
It could be identifying plants.
也可能是，你知道的，找动物之类的，就是这种事。
It could be, you know, you know, looking for animals, whatever, you know, that sort of thing.
但它能给你带来更多东西。
But it it gives you something more.
我们请来了一位名叫达契尔·凯尔特纳的杰出研究者，他跟我们谈到了敬畏感。
We had this amazing researcher on named Dachner Keltner, and he, was talking to us about wonder.
他提到了‘敬畏漫步’。
And he talked about wonder walks.
这和前面说的是一回事。
And it was the same idea.
他让一个对照组每天散步，他们只是单纯地散步。
He had a control group who went on a walk every day, and they they just went on a walk.
另一组人在散步时只花了几分钟时间，观察那些让他们感到惊叹的事物。
And the other group spent just a couple minutes on the walk looking at something that was gave them wonder.
是的。
Yeah.
这不仅帮助他们缓解了压力，还真的降低了炎症。
And not only did it help them with stress, but, like, it actually lowered inflammation.
是的。
Yeah.
它减轻了疼痛。
It lowered pain.
所以我认为你完全正确。
And so I think you're absolutely right.
听起来你也在说，瑞安，做某事要有习惯性，或者形成一种日常规律。
It also sounds like you're saying too, Ryan, doing something habitually or having a routine.
比如，你说你每天花十分钟涂色。
Like, you're saying you're coloring ten minutes a day.
我每天早上都会做感恩练习。
I do a gratitude thing in the morning every morning.
这些可能帮助我们安定下来的小事，其实也很有帮助，对吧？
Just these things that maybe sort of help ground us can also be useful, yeah?
是的，完全正确。
Yeah, absolutely.
我认为，你可以用不同方式来运用这些安定技巧。
I think that I mean, there's different ways that you wanna use some of those grounding type techniques.
一种是定期去做，对吧？
One is to just do it regularly, right?
我就把涂色当作每天固定要做的事，就像我说的，每天十分钟。
So I use coloring as a thing that I just do, like I said, ten minutes a day.
我每晚睡觉前也会做睡眠冥想，一直坚持这个习惯。
Same thing I do like a sleep meditation as I'm falling asleep every night, and I just do that habitually.
另一种用法是在你情绪高涨的时候。
The other way to use it is when you're hitting an emotional high, right?
比如当你感到非常焦虑或压力很大时，你可以告诉自己：在这些时刻，我要花十分钟涂色来缓解焦虑，或者进行冥想，或者让自己平静下来。
Like when you are feeling really anxious, when you are feeling really stressed to say, okay, in these moments I'm gonna color for ten minutes as a way of de escalating some of that anxiety or I'm gonna go through this meditation, or or I'm gonna ground myself.
这些方法都可以根据需要定期使用，或在必要时临时使用。
Like, those are all all mechanisms you can use either regularly or as needed.
我觉得宠物对这些事情真的很有帮助。
I feel like pets really help with this stuff.
当然。
Absolutely.
是的。
Yes.
我会抱起我的小猫，说：该让妈妈感觉好一点了，然后亲亲他。
I mean, I will grab my kitten and be like, time to make mommy feel better and like kiss him.
这真的管用。
And it works.
这真的管用。
And it works.
他太傻气又可爱了。
He's so silly and cute.
是的。
Yeah.
宠物真的很好。
Pets are really god.
如果你们能做到的话，
If you guys can do it,
就养一个吧。
just get something.
我确信我的狗知道什么时候我需要抚摸它。
I'm convinced my dog knows when I need to pet her.
所以它总是在那些时刻主动来找我，是的。
So she she she comes to me in those moments and so yeah.
这真的很暖心。
Which is very nice.
跟我们聊聊情绪小技巧吧。
Talk to us a little bit about mood hacks.
这些是什么？你发现有哪些特别喜欢的情绪小技巧？
What are those, and and what are some of your favorite mood hacks that you found?
是的，如果我们回想起之前提到的那个模型，其中涉及刺激和你当时的情绪状态，管理情绪的一个重要部分就是好好照顾自己，尽可能保证充足休息，健康饮食，保持水分充足。
Yeah, so, if we think back to that model that was describing before where we've got the stimulus and then we've got your mood at the time, a big part of managing our emotions is taking good care of ourselves, trying to stay rested when we can, trying to eat right, trying to stay hydrated.
有非常有趣的研究表明，仅仅是轻微脱水，就可能在你遭遇压力源时增加情绪反应性。
There's really interesting research on how, just simple dehydration can lead to increased emotional reactivity when you experience stressor.
而这时，花一点时间接触大自然就能产生很大影响。
And this is where spending a little bit of time in nature can make a big difference.
参与艺术活动也能带来显著改变。
Engaging with the arts can make a big difference.
所以去看演出、参加音乐会，如果你能亲自参与艺术创作，效果会更好。
So going to shows, going to concerts, it's even better if you engage in the creation of art.
对吧？
Right?
所以，如果你参加一些手工制作工作坊之类的活动，作为照顾自己的方式，这样当你面对刺激时，就能更好地应对。
So if you go to, like, arts and crafts workshops and things like that as a as a way of taking care of yourself so that when you do face that stimulus, you're better prepared to deal with it.
我得插一句，因为提到喝水这件事让我笑了。
I just have to interrupt real quick because the water thing made me laugh.
补水这件事让我笑得不行。
The hydration thing made me laugh so much.
有时候我心情特别差，我伴侣就会问：你今天喝水了吗？
Because sometimes I'll be in a real pissy mood, and my partner goes, have you drank water today?
我真想，嗯，直接杀了他。
And I wanna, like, murder Yeah.
我当时就想：这跟我心情差有什么关系？
I'm like, what the fuck does that have to do with anything?
但听起来他好像说得有道理。
But it sounds like he's got a point.
是的。
Yeah.
确实如此。
It does.
脱水会让你感觉很糟糕。
Dehydration will make you feel terrible.
是的。
Yeah.
这就是为什么你需要提前做这些事，因为如果有人在那一刻告诉你，那就像是让人冷静下来一样。
This this is why you need to do that stuff in advance because if somebody tells you that in the moment, it's sort of like having someone say calm down.
对吧？
Right?
这根本没用。
It's it's not gonna work.
他要是对了，我就烦。
I hate when he's right.
最糟糕了。
It's the worst.
那运动呢，莱恩？
What about exercise, Ryan?
运动对我们的情绪有什么影响？
How does that affect our moods?
我猜它是有益的。
I'm I'm assuming it's good.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yes.
所以总的来说是有益的。
So it is mostly good.
但有一个例外情况，我会说它并不总是有益的，稍后我会讲到。
There is one caveat where I'm gonna say it is not good and we'll get to that in a second.
但总的来说，运动非常好。
But as a general rule, exercise is great.
坦白说，这正是我认为治疗师应该更经常推荐的事项之一。
And frankly, it is something that this is when we talk about things that I think therapists should probably be prescribing more regularly, this is one of those.
而且不一定非得是剧烈运动，只要动起来就行，它能带来诸多好处。
And it doesn't have to be super vigorous exercise, it's just getting moving, and it has a whole bunch of benefits.
它还有许多间接好处，因为很多时候你运动时，意味着你身处大自然中，对吧？
It also has a bunch of indirect benefits because a lot of sometimes when you're exercising, it means you're out in nature, right?
所以这又多了一重好处。
So it's got that added piece.
有时候运动还意味着你在社交，对吧？
Sometimes it means you're socializing, right?
因为你去了健身房、俱乐部之类的场所。
Because you go to a gym or to a club or something like that.
所以它还附带了这些额外的间接益处。
So it's got these additional indirect benefits that it brings along with it.
我们知道经常运动的人，这一点在2023年的一项大型研究中得到了证实，该研究分析了当时所有关于运动与情绪或情感的已发表文献，发现运动能显著提升整体情绪健康、自尊和自信，带来一系列积极效果。
We know that people who exercise, and we know this because just as recently as 2023, there's a big study that's done, looking at basically every published article out there on exercise and mood or emotions, and they found that exercise led to the overall emotional well-being, higher self esteem, confidence, just a whole bunch of positive outcomes.
这里需要注意的是，所有这些研究都关注的是那些锻炼的人，以及他们在经历负面事件时是否能从中受益？
The caveat here is that now all of that research looks at people who exercise and does it help them when they sort of experience negative events?
这和‘我现在很生气，所以我要去健身房发泄一下’是不同的。
That's different from, I'm feeling angry right now, so I'm going to go to the gym to work it off.
实际上，大量研究表明，试图通过锻炼来管理愤怒或恐惧并不一定有效。
And that we actually find, there's a lot of research that says that trying to manage your anger or fear through exercise doesn't necessarily work very well.
哦，天哪。
Oh, wow.
但这还是会根据你的目标略有不同。
Again, it's gonna depend a little bit on your goal.
但如果你的目标是平复情绪，也就是说，降低愤怒或恐惧，
But if your goal is to deescalate, right, if your goal is to bring that anger down or that fear down,
那么
then
去一个地方让心率加快可能并不是你需要的做法。
going to a place and increasing your heart rate isn't necessarily what you need.
你需要做的是相反的事情，深呼吸，让情绪平复下来，因此目标这一点非常重要。
What you need is to do the opposite of that, to deep breathe, it's to bring that down, and so again, that's why the goal piece matters.
有时候你的目标可能并不是要降低或调节这种情绪。
There might be times where that isn't the goal, where the goal isn't necessarily to decrease, to regulate that way.
这里稍微复杂一点的是，有些运动形式并不会显著提高心率，比如散步之类的。
Now where this gets a little bit nuanced is there are some forms of exercise because they don't necessarily increase heart rate in a significant way like going for a walk, things like that.
这些形式的运动在那些时刻可能是合适的，对你也有好处。
Those forms of exercise are probably gonna be fine and be good for you in those moments.
真正容易让人持续停留在愤怒想法和情绪中的，是那种剧烈的运动。
It's really the vigorous stuff that tends to lead to keeping those angry thoughts and angry feelings at the top of mind.
是的。
Yeah.
我能想象，这确实说得通。
I could imagine I could see that.
这很有道理。
That makes sense.
我觉得温和的瑜伽会让你想拥抱整个世界。
I feel like gentle yoga makes you want to hug the world.
这和拳击不一样。
It's different than boxing.
你对。
You Yes.
你知道我在说什么吗？
Know what I'm
Exactly right.
That's exactly it.
像瑜伽这样的活动可能非常好。
It's like things like yoga are probably gonna be great.
散步也会非常好。
Going for a walk is gonna be great.
拳击、跑步这类活动则不太有效。
Boxing, going for a run, those types of things are less likely to work.
不过这些活动让人感觉很好，所以人们有时会想去做，但这并不一定意味着它们能有效缓解愤怒。
They feel good, though, so people sometimes want to do them, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they help bring the anger down.
那压力管理呢？
What about managing stress?
你有什么应对压力的小技巧吗？
What are some hacks that you have for that?
我觉得我们现在都需要这些。
I think we all need that right now.
是的，我们确实需要。
Yeah, we
没错。
do.
是的，这真的很重要。
Yeah, that's a really important one.
而且我认为，我在书中提到的许多方法在应对压力时都会很有帮助。
And I do think that a lot of the things that I talk about just throughout the book are gonna be helpful when it comes to managing stress.
我经常被问到，我们现在是不是比过去更容易生气？
I get this question a lot about are we angrier now than we once were?
我认为事实可能是我们确实更容易生气了，但这个问题很复杂。
And I think the truth is that we probably are, though that's a complicated question.
我认为，如果我们确实更容易生气，其中一个主要原因是我们的压力比过去大得多。当人们压力大的时候，承受情绪崩溃的能力是有限的，一旦遇到负面事件，就更容易失控，因为我们已经处于压力状态。
And I think that if we are, one of the big reasons is because we're also under a lot more stress than we once were, and I think that what happens is that when we are stressed out, we only have so much capacity to feel overwhelmed, and when we face a negative event, we're just more likely to lose it when we're already feeling stressed about things.
所以，我们刚才讨论的很多内容——比如找到让自己安定下来的方法、锻炼、好好照顾自己——这些在我看来对于管理压力都非常重要，包括你对自己讲述的故事和内心对话。
So a lot of the things we've been talking about, about finding ways to ground yourself, about exercising, taking good care of yourself, those are all things that I think are really helpful when it comes to finding ways to manage stress and doing what you can in those areas, including the stories you tell yourself and you talk to yourself.
所有这些都将对减轻压力起到至关重要的作用。
All of those things are going to be really critical in decreasing that.
你能告诉我什么是‘解读技巧’吗？
Can you tell me what an interpretation hack is?
当然。
Yes.
当你思考这三个核心方面时——刺激、当时的情绪状态。
So when you think about those, again, three sort of core areas, we have the stimulus, our mood at the time.
这其中很重要的一点是我们如何解读这个刺激。
A big piece of this is how we interpret that stimulus.
那么，我们是如何决定它对我们意味着什么的呢？
And so how do we decide what it means to us?
所以，这就是你提到的那个词，拉吉，你之前提到过灾难化思维。
And so this is where you mentioned the word, Raj, You mentioned catastrophizing before.
灾难化思维是一种解读方式，对吧？
Catastrophizing is a form of interpretation, right?
当你决定：嘿，这件事会毁掉我的一天。
And it's you've decided, hey, this thing is gonna ruin my day.
它会毁掉我的一周。
It's gonna ruin my week.
它会毁掉我的人生。
It's gonna My life.
是的。
Yes.
成为你的人生。
Be your life.
没错。
Exactly.
所以，一种解读技巧就是我们努力获得一个现实的理解。
So an interpretation hack is when we seek to have a realistic understanding.
这件事真的那么灾难性吗？
Is this thing that's happened really catastrophic?
如果是，那当然应该如此对待。
If it is, then by all means, we should treat it as such.
它只是一个轻微的麻烦吗？
Is it a mild nuisance?
并尝试去评估这一点。
And trying to evaluate that.
实际上，这类技巧还有很多。
And there's actually quite a few of these.
人们会进行自我导向的‘应该’，也就是说，我会对自己日常生活中该做什么做出各种决定。
People engage in things like self directed shoulds which means I make all these decisions about things I should do in my day to day life.
另一个这类情况是贴标签。
Another one of these is labeling.
我们倾向于以消极、适应不良的方式给周围的人和情境贴标签，而当我们这样做的时候，我们实际上是在对这些标签做出反应。
We have a tendency to label the people and the circumstances around us in these negative, maladaptive ways and when we do that, we're now responding to the label.
所以，如果我把另一个司机称为十足的傻瓜，那我现在想到的就是一个十足的傻瓜，而不是一个只是犯了错的普通人，对吧？
So if I call another driver a total idiot, now I'm thinking of them as a total idiot instead of just a person out there who made a mistake, right?
这会改变我如何应对他们和这个情况。
And that changes how I respond to them and the situation.
我能跟你说件事吗？几周前我就遇到过这种情况。
Can I just tell you, this happened to me a couple weeks ago?
我当时在和康爱迪生公司的一位女士打交道。
I was dealing with a woman from Con Edison.
他们多收了我的钱，我不得不向纽约州提出投诉。
They had overcharged me, and I had to file a complaint with the state of New York.
是的
Mhmm.
她被指派负责我的案子，但一直把事情搞砸。
And she was assigned to my case, and she kept screwing things up.
比如，她第一次打电话时，我的电话号码错了，所以她还没做调查。
Like, the first time she called, she had my phone number wrong, so she hadn't done the research yet.
第二次，她的地址又弄错了。
The next time, she had the wrong address.
她最后又打回来，说：你知道吗？
And she finally called back and said, you know what?
我想我可以申请免除这笔费用。
I think I can get this money discharged.
是的
Mhmm.
我特别高兴。
And I was so happy.
我走进另一个房间告诉本杰发生了什么事，我说：她要帮我把这笔钱免掉了，但她真是个笨蛋。
And I went in the other room to tell Benjie what had happened, and I was like, she's gonna get rid of the money, but she's such an idiot.
她老是搞错事情。
Like, she kept getting things wrong.
我回到办公室，电话还没挂。
I come back to my office, and I had not hung up the phone.
哦。
Oh.
她说我还在线上。
And she said I'm I was still there.
于是我赶紧说：哦，真对不起。
And so I was like, oh, I'm so sorry.
谢谢啊。
Like, thanks.
她说我会再给你打电话，给你确切的消息。
And she's like, I'll call you back and let you know for sure.
她给我回了电话，告诉我你的债务已经豁免了。
She calls me back, and she tells me I got your money discharged.
然后她说，我只是想让你知道，我听到了你刚才说的话。
And then she said, I just want you to know that I heard what you said.
天哪。
Oh my god.
我当时真想钻到地缝里去。
I wanted to melt into the floor.
对啊。
Right.
我们总是忘记，每个人都是普通人。
We we forget that everyone's a human.
没错。
Exactly.
她说，这并不是你的错。
And she said that it wasn't my fault.
我被提供了错误的信息，我当时就想，这根本无所谓。
I had provided been provided the wrong information, and I was like, that doesn't even matter.
我不该那样说的。
Like, I shouldn't have said that.
是的。
Yeah.
我很抱歉你听到了那句话。
And I was so sorry that you heard that.
但从那以后，我一直都在思考这件事。
But since then, I've been thinking about it.
就像你刚才说的，瑞安，关于我们如何给人们或事物贴标签，以及这种标签如何影响我们看待他们，进而影响我们与他们的互动方式。
And like what you just said, Ryan, like, the idea of, like, how we label people or how we label things and is how we see them, and that also then is how we interact with them.
对。
Yeah.
这就是我们日常行事的方式。
That's how we go about our day.
而且，这看起来似乎很简单，就是给人们多一点宽容，或者不要以某种方式看待他们
And, like, it seems so simple, but just giving people a little more grace or just not seeing them in a certain way
这很难。
It's hard.
会改变一切。
Changes everything else.
是的。
Yeah.
真的很难做到。
It's really hard to do.
但如果我们能做到，我认为这是革命性的。
But if we can do it, I think it it's revolutionary.
我知道。
I know.
但有时候，我们被自己内心的焦虑紧紧包裹着。
But we're, like, wrapped up in a blanket of our own angst sometimes.
就像
Like
是的
Yeah.
但我也觉得我们非常快地这样做，去给事物贴标签，我知道。
But I also think we're also very quick to do that, to label things I know.
或者以那种方式给人们贴标签。
Or label people in that way.
这对我来说是一个巨大的警醒。
And so that was such a wake up call for me.
对不起，戴维斯小姐。
I'm sorry, miss Davis.
无论你在哪里，如果你在听的话，我再次向你道歉。
Wherever you are, if you're listening, like, I apologize again.
但我也会犯错，而且我也在想，你知道，如果是你的话。
But I make mistakes, and I also you think about, it, you know, if it were you.
像
Like
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
但希望我们能从这些错误中吸取教训。
But, hopefully, we learn from them.
而且我最近一直在努力变得更好
And I have I have been trying to be better in the last
几周里。
couple weeks.
所以是的。
So Yeah.
还有另一件事，瑞安，当你提到那些我们能问的问题，比如‘应该’类的问题时，我也在想。
The other thing I was thinking about too, Ryan, when you said, you know, these questions that, you know, we can ask, like, the should questions.
我二十多年前的第一位治疗师让我问自己另一个问题：如果这件事真的发生了，最坏的情况会是什么？
Another question that my first therapist twenty five years ago made me ask myself was, what's the worst thing that would happen if this happened?
嗯。
Mhmm.
而且
And
她让我真的去设想那种情况。
she made me actually walk through that.
所以，如果我陷入灾难化思维，她会说，好吧。
So if I was catastrophizing, she would say, okay.
但最坏的情况会是什么？
But what's the worst thing?
通常，我并不会死，或者我爱的人也不会……还有哪些其他问题，我们可以在面对情绪时问自己，或许能帮助我们冷静下来？
And usually, I wasn't going to die or someone I loved wasn't What going to are some other questions that we can ask ourselves when we're dealing with emotions that can maybe help us sort of take things down a notch?
我这里有几个想说的点。
There's a couple things I like to say here.
其中之一是，我觉得这对我真的非常有帮助。
One of those is I really think this has been really helpful to me.
我做过的一件事是，这有点深入，就是去梳理一些我的核心信念。
One of the things that I've done is, and this is a little deep, but is to unpack some of my core beliefs.
那些信念是什么？因为关于我自己或世界的信念，会成为过滤一切的滤镜。
What are the things because my beliefs about myself or about the world, they serve as a lens by which everything is filtered through.
所以我现在举个今天早上的例子。
And so I'm gonna give you an example actually from this morning.
我有一个核心信念，深深植根于我的本性，那就是我非常害怕成为别人的负担。
I tend to one of my core beliefs is I it is just rooted in my DNA is that I am super scared of being a burden to people.
我经常思考这个问题，我不喜欢拖慢别人的步伐。
I think about it a lot and I don't want I don't like when I slow other people down.
我不喜欢干扰别人的进展，这种想法常常以很大的方式影响我。
I don't like when I interfere with other people's progress and this is like this gets in me in big ways.
比如，我会想到未来，当我老了，我还能不能自理？会不会需要别人来照顾我？
Like, I think about the future and when I'm older and will I be able to you know, will other people have to take care of me?
这些事情让我害怕，甚至在一些小事上也是如此。
And, like, that that stuff scares me, but even in small ways.
今天早上，我送儿子上学时，我把车停到路边让他下车，但他还没准备好下车。
And so this morning, dropping my son off at school, I pull over to get him out and he is not ready to get out of the car yet.
我不知道你有没有经历过学校接送时段，那简直像西部荒野。
And I don't know if you've ever been to a school drop off, but it is like the Wild West.
于是我突然有点崩溃，心里想着：宝贝，你在干什么？
And so I had this sort of freak out moment where I was like, Buddy, what are you doing?
你得赶紧准备好下车。
You gotta be ready to get out of the car.
后面还有很多人在等着我们。
There's other people waiting on us.
在那一刻，我能意识到自己的核心信念，并意识到：嘿，我们其实只是在讨论三十秒而已，对吧？
And so being able to acknowledge my sort of core belief in that moment and realize that like, Hey, we're really talking about thirty seconds, right?
这条路上的任何人都不会因为这三十秒就影响到他们的人生。
Nobody in this line has such an important life that thirty seconds is that critical.
享受与儿子共度的这一刻，帮助他下车并开启他的一天，同时花点时间反思这种情绪的来源，是一种很好的方式来理解这些认知调整技巧，对吧？就是要明白：为什么这件事对我来说如此重要？
It's okay to enjoy this moment with your son, to help him get off and start his school day and taking a moment to evaluate and to recognize where that was coming from for me and where that anxiety comes from is a good way to think through some of these interpretation hacks, right, is to understand, okay, so why is this such a thing for me?
是的。
Yeah.
这时我们就要回到情绪的作用了，其中之一就是它们告诉我们什么对我们真正重要，我们有时可以评估一下，这些是否真的值得成为我们重视的东西。
This is when we go back to what our emotions do for us, one of the things they do is they tell us what's important to us, what's really important to us and we can sometimes evaluate whether or not that's what we want to be important to us.
在那一刻，我可以问自己一个问题：为什么我要优先考虑身后那个人快速通过这条线？
One of the questions I can ask myself in that moment is why am I prioritizing the person behind me getting through this line quickly?
为什么我要把这件事看得比早上和儿子好好告别更重要？
Why am I putting that over having a nice goodbye with my son in the morning as he goes off to school?
这是一个真正需要我深入追问的问题，如果我想拥有健康的情绪生活的话。
And that's like a real question that I've gotta that I've gotta interrogate if I wanna have that kind of healthy emotional life.
我有个问题。
I have a question.
如果你分析并采取行动，真的能改变你的行为，而不是你的核心信念吗？
Can you actually change your behavior, not your core beliefs, but your behavior if you analyze that and act on it?
因为我能感同身受。
Because I can relate.
我对自己有一些觉察到的事情。
I have things that I'm aware of about myself.
我知道这些正在发生，我想对拉吉说：这不必定义我们是谁。
And I I know they're happening, and I wanna be like, Raj, this doesn't have to be who we are.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我觉得你可以。
I think you can.
我觉得这其实又回到了我们之前讨论过的一点，那就是我们讲给自己听的故事。
And I think it actually comes back to to something we talked about earlier, which is the stories we tell ourselves.
这其中很重要的一点是，确保我们讲给自己的故事既真实，又能反映我们真正是谁，而不是我们希望成为的样子，并逐步做出调整。
And a big piece of this is making sure the story we're telling ourself is one that is accurate, but is also a story about who we truly are versus who we want to be, and trying to shift that over time.
我不想成为一个因为害怕成为负担而焦虑不安，以至于无法真正投入当下生活的人。
And like, I don't want to be someone who is so anxious about being a burden that I fail to engage in my actual current life.
我不希望那样，所以我需要在那一刻提醒自己：这就是你。
I don't want to be that way and so it takes me reminding myself in that moment, hey, this is you.
这是过去的你。
This is the old you.
你并不想成为那样的人。
Like, you don't wanna be that way.
你希望成为那个能和他们好好告别的那种人。
You wanna you wanna be the person who is, like, having a nice goodbye with their
你就被困住了吗？
And you're not stuck?
是的。
Yep.
对。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
我的意思是，我为我们的听众感到抱歉。
I mean, I feel bad for our listeners.
他们以后会经常听到这些，因为自从我们上一季结束后，我就开始接受治疗了，我觉得治疗真的很有帮助。
They're gonna hear this all the time because I started therapy since we we you know, since we last had our last season, and I think therapy's so good.
我非常喜欢
I love
它。
it.
最爱的。
Favorite.
但我已经从治疗中学到了，即使只是像这样，我确实会经历那些时刻。
But I learned the therapy already even just like, yeah, I will have those moments.
我现在还做不到在当下就意识到自己做得不对，但我无法阻止这种情况发生。
And I will even say now I'm not at a place yet where I can feel in the moment that I'm not doing the right thing, but I can't stop it from happening.
完全同意。
Totally.
我的治疗师说，这没关系。
And my therapist was like, that's fine.
你能够意识到这种感受，这本身就是下一步。
The fact that you're even recognizing that feeling, that is the next step.
因为八个月前，你根本意识不到这一点。
Because eight months ago, you didn't even recognize that.
你只是在浑然不觉中度过而已。
You just we're just going through it.
所以我认为我们可以，拉吉。
And so I think we can, Raj.
我认为这只需要大量的重复练习，以及觉察当下正在发生的事情。
I think it's just a lot of repetition practice and acknowledging what's happening in the moment.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
不过，你这表现不错。
A plus for you, though.
我觉得很好，我的意思是，正如我所说，我会变得很烦人，但我为此感到非常开心。
I feel good about I mean, like I said, I'm gonna be insufferable, but I'm so happy about it.
我为此感到非常开心。
I'm so happy about it.
我愿意陪你走这段旅程。
I'm here for this journey.
谢谢你。
Thank you.
我聊了我打电话给最好的朋友的事。
I talked about my bet calling my bestie.
寻找社群和社交参与如何帮助我们调节情绪？
How can finding community and social engagement help us regulate our emotions?
是的，我们的社群对我们来说非常重要，原因有好几个。
Yeah, our community is so important to us for honestly a couple different reasons.
一是这些人可以在我们生活中的一些具体事务上依靠。
One is those are people we can rely on for sort of specific tasks in our life.
我不知道这样说朋友是不是最友善的方式，但与此同时，如果你有朋友可以在车抛锚、修东西需要帮忙，或者搬东西时找你帮忙，这大概是最典型的例子——谁能为你做这些事。
I don't know, that isn't the nicest way of thinking about our friends, but at the same time, if you've got friends that you can turn to when your car breaks down, when struggling to fix something and need some help or help you move, that's probably the best example is who can you call on for that stuff.
这会让你的生活更轻松。
That makes your life easier.
而且当你被请求提供这些帮助，而你又为朋友提供了这些服务时，这实际上会提升你的自尊，让你对自己感觉更好。
And also when you are asked for those things and you and you provide those services to a friend, it it actually builds your own self esteem and helps you feel better about things.
所以，记住这一点。
So, you know, remember that.
当你请别人帮你搬家时，你实际上是在帮助他们建立自尊。
When you ask someone to help you move, what you're really doing is building their self esteem.
所以，不是的。
So No.
这真的很有道理。
It's really true.
你知道吗，如果我的一个朋友邀请我陪他们去看牙医或医生的预约
You know, if someone if one of my friends asked me to come to a dental or medical appointment with them
去接他们。
To pick them up.
我觉得自己像披着斗篷。
Feel like I have a cape.
就像我是超级英雄。
Like, I'm a superhero.
是的。
Yeah.
当然。
Absolutely.
我觉得我在为我爱的朋友做一件很棒的事。
Like I'm doing something wonderful for my friend, that I love my friend.
是的。
Yeah.
而且这并不是一种交易。
And it's not transactional.
它可能看起来像是那样。
It might look like that.
但其实不是。
It's not.
没错。
Right.
这只是让我感觉自己是一个完整的人。
It's just making me feel like a whole human.
绝对如此。
Absolutely.
不过，瑞安，我不同意你的看法。
I will disagree with you, though, Ryan.
我永远不会请别人帮忙搬家，我也永远不会帮别人搬家。
I I am never going to ask someone to help move, and I'm never I will never help someone move.
我最讨厌别人说，哦，我们会吃披萨喝啤酒，会很有趣。
I hate when people are like, oh, but we'll get pizza and beer, and it'll be fun.
就会像你知道的那样？
It'll be like you know?
我才不呢。
And I'm no.
不是这样的。
It's not.
吃龙虾吧。
Have lobster.
披萨。
Pizza.
是的。
Yeah.
我会给你一些钱，让你请个搬家公司。
I I will give you I will chip in some money for you to get a mover.
没错。
That's right.
或者
Or
是的。
Yeah.
我来给你们买披萨，但我做不到。
I will buy the pizza for you guys, but I can't do it.
诺亚有界限。
Noah has boundaries.
我有。
I do.
是吗？
Yeah?
而且它们相当健康。
And they're pretty healthy.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我本来打算问你能不能帮我搬家，但。
I was I was literally I was gonna end this by asking you if you'd help me move, but
现在不行，瑞安。
now Ryan, no.
当然可以。
Absolutely.
瑞安，我会帮你搬家。
Ryan, I'll help you move.
得飞一趟。
Have to fly
飞到威斯康星州。
all the way to Wisconsin.
这会是一团糟。
It's gonna be a mess.
是的。
Yeah.
我明白。
I get that.
是的。
Yeah.
这很公平。
That's fair.
不过，结束的方式，我认为拉吉和我想知道，我们通常会问我们的大多数专家：你会建议人们用什么方法来调节情绪？或者，你希望人们从这次对话中带走的最重要的一点是什么？
The way to end it, though, I think Raj and I wanna know, we ask this to most of our experts, what is the number one hack that you would say for people to hack their emotions, or what's the number one thing you want people to carry away from this conversation?
我觉得有几点。
I think there's a couple of things.
第一，我希望人们能理解大局。
One is I want people to understand the big picture.
所以我在书中首先谈论的一个问题是：我们为什么会有感受？
So one of the first things I talk about in the book is how why how and why do we feel?
我们为什么会情绪化？
How and why do we emote?
我会详细阐述我在这里描述过的版本，即刺激、情绪、解读、感受、行为——所有这些我们参与的环节。
And I and I run through a version of what I've described here of, you know, the the the the stimulus, the mood, the interpretation, the feeling, the behaviors, all those things that we engage in.
但我认为理解这个宏观图景非常重要，因为一旦你理解了，你就会明白，实际上——我列出了50个，但它们几乎是无限多的干预点，只要你有情绪，随时都可以介入。
But I think understanding that big picture is really important because once you do, you understand that they're near I mean, I go through 50, but they're near infinite places that you can intervene anytime you're feeling something.
一旦你有了这种宏观视角，就会发现认识到自己可以改变的诸多切入点，是非常有力量的。
And once you have that sort of big picture, I think it's really empowering to recognize all of the different places that you can make changes.
所以我认为，最终我想让人们从这里带走的，是的，这里确实有很多具体工具可以使用，但更重要的是，意识到你拥有如此多的工具，本身就是这个图景中至关重要的一部分。
And so I think, ultimately, that's the thing I would want people to to take from this is, yeah, there are some there are lots of specific tools here that you can use, but also just the fact that you have so many tools at your disposal is a a big part of this picture.
打开你的工具包。
Open up that hack sack.
我太喜欢这个说法了
I love that
开始干活吧。
hack Start doing some work.
瑞安，谢谢你分享这些。
Ryan, thank you for this.
我会说，是的，去把这本书买来吧。
And I would say, yeah, go get the book.
这本书很快就会出版，如果还没出版的话。
It's going to be out, if it's not out already, very soon.
我们非常高兴你能来。
And we loved having you.
谢谢你出席。
Thank you for coming.
欢迎再来。
Come back again.
请一定要来。
Please.
很想再多聊一会儿。
Love to chat more.
这让人豁然开朗。
This is illuminating.
谢谢。
Thank you.
和你们俩聊天真开心。
Love talking with you both.
非常感谢。
Thank you so much.
现在进入‘五步提升’环节。
And now it's time for better in five.
以下是本集的五大要点。
These are your top five takeaways from this episode.
好的。
Alright.
第一，情绪是我们理解和与世界互动的方式。
Number one, emotions are how we understand and interact with the world.
第二，有时候，在负面刺激引发情绪问题之前避开它，反而是最好的选择。
Number two, sometimes it's actually your best bet to avoid a negative stimulus before it creates an emotional issue.
是的。
Mhmm.
第三，但我们希望学会接纳并从一点不适中学习和成长。
Number three, but we wanna be able to learn to sit with and grow from a little bit of discomfort.
只是一点点。
Just a little bit.
不多。
Not much.
第四，我们内心的叙述和对自己讲述的故事，对于情绪调节至关重要。
Number four, our internal narrative and the stories we tell ourselves are crucial to how we regulate our emotions.
我是个厉害的女生。
I'm a bad bitch.
是的
Yeah.
你确实是
You are.
第五点，有无数种方法可以帮助管理情绪。
And number five, there are an infinite number of hacks to help manage emotions.
找到适合你的方法，并把它们
Find the ones that work for you and put them
放进你的工具包里。
in your hack pack.
好的，
Okay,
拉吉。
Raj.
那么你现在情绪上感觉怎么样？你觉得自己以后能更好地管理情绪吗？
So how are you feeling emotionally right now, and do you think you're gonna be better at managing emotions?
我现在感觉挺安全的。
I feel kind of safe right now.
我觉得我得到了认可。
Like, I I think I feel validated.
我真的已经掌握了那些咒语。
I really think I've got the mantras down
是的。
Yeah.
针对不同的情绪和各种情况。
For the different moods, the different things
我需要的。
I need.
只是我自己。
It's just me.
坏女孩。
Bad bitch.
一个坏女孩。
A bad bitch.
但其他时候，我会觉得我很安全。
And then other times, I'm like, I'm safe.
我没事。
I'm okay.
是的。
Yeah.
我没有陷入宇宙的漩涡。
I'm not spiraling into the universe.
对。
Right.
所以这部分很好。
So that part's good.
其他方面，我确实需要剩下的全套工具包。
Everything else, I definitely I need the rest of the hack pack.
我确实觉得，无法调节情绪会影响健康的方方面面，而我想一直做个酷女孩，直到九十多岁。
I do feel like not being able to regulate your emotions affects every aspect of your health, and I wanna be a bad bitch into my nineties.
所以我肯定会读这本书。
So I'm I'm definitely gonna read the book.
你呢？
What about you?
我也很喜欢这个观点，那就是在情绪发生之前，你其实可以做一些事情。
I love the idea too that there are things you can do before the emotions happen.
比如，如果你在进行日常的整体健康维护，比如锻炼、保证睡眠、健康饮食，这些都能帮助你调节情绪。
Like, if you're doing sort of your general holistic hygiene, you know, you're working out, you're getting sleep, you're eating well, that's gonna help regulate your emotions right there.
是的。
Yes.
但当你深陷情绪泥潭时，也还有一些应对方法。
But then if you're caught in the middle of the nightmare, there are things you can do as well.
我也想更好地学会稍微退后一步。
I also wanna be better about sort of taking a little step back.
是的。
Yeah.
而且，我知道我一生气就会立刻发邮件。
And, you know, I love to fire off, like, an email when I'm angry
关于某件事。
about something.
一封严厉的邮件。
Stern email.
是的。
Yeah.
如果收到一封，我会立刻回复。
If one comes in, I just respond immediately.
别这样，诺亚。
Don't do that, Noah.
不。
No.
这其实是一回事。
Like, that's the same thing.
糟糕的主意。
Horrible idea.
等一个小时。
Wait an hour.
等一天。
Wait a day.
我们都能感同身受。
We can all relate to that.
是的。
Yeah.
我喜欢这些想法。
So I like these ideas.
比如，你可以问自己一些问题。
Like, there are questions you can ask yourself.
你可以做很多这样的小事。
There are all these little things that you can do.
挑一两件来做，你可能会感觉好一些。
Pick one, pick two, and you're probably gonna feel better.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我不知道。
I don't know.
感觉好一些。
Feeling better.
我们看看这是否真的有效。
We'll see if it actually works.
嗯。
Mhmm.
总之，只要还有事情会出错，天知道有多少种错误，嗯。
Anyway, as long as there are things to get wrong, and god knows there are a lot of them Mhmm.
我们会在这里帮助你做得更好。
We're gonna be right here to help you do them better.
你们要感觉良好啊。
Feel good, you guys.
《我是不是做错了》是由赫芬顿邮报和Acast联合制作的。
Am I doing it wrong is a coproduction between HuffPost and Acast.
我们的制片人是伊芙·毕肖普、卡门·博尔卡·卡里略和马利亚·阿加代罗。
Our producers are Eve Bishop, Carmen Borca Carrillo, and Malia Agadello.
我们的执行制片人是珍妮·卡普兰和艾米莉·鲁德。
Our executive producers are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder.
特别感谢赫芬顿邮报的受众负责人阿比·威廉姆斯。
Special thanks to HuffPost's head of audience, Abby Williams
视频负责人威尔·图克。
Head of video, Will Took.
还有凯特·帕尔默、玛尔塔·罗德里格斯和特里·丹吉洛。
Well as Kate Palmer, Marta Rodriguez, and Terry D'Angelo.
我们是你们的主持人，拉吉·潘贾比·约翰逊。
And we are your hosts, Raj Panjabi Johnson
还有诺亚·米克尔森。
And Noah Mikkelsen.
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