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嘿，大家好。
Hey, everyone.
你们都知道今天的回忆 episode 的嘉宾是谁吧？她是《单身汉》第十九季的第三名亚军，《单身女郎》第十一季的女主角，《与星共舞》第二十九季的冠军，如今又圆满回归，担任《单身女郎》第十七季和第十八季的联合主持人。
You know the guest of today's flashback episode as the third runner-up in season nineteen of the bachelor, the bachelorette in season eleven, the winner of dancing with the stars season 29, and coming full circle as the cohost of The Bachelorette season seventeen and eighteen.
下面请出凯特琳·布里斯托。
Here's Caitlin Bristow.
女士们、先生们，你们正在收听由主持人安娜·法瑞丝带来的《不专业》节目。
Ladies and gentlemen, you are listening to Unqualified with your host, Anna Farris.
凯特琳，非常感谢你参与这次访谈。
Caitlin, thank you so much for doing this.
真的非常感谢你邀请我。
Thank you for having me truly.
我感到无比荣幸。
I feel completely honored.
我是你的忠实粉丝。
Big fan.
我喜欢你的播客。
Love your podcast.
谢谢。
Thank you.
我也喜欢你的节目，
And I love yours,
我想聊聊这个。
and I wanna talk about that.
但首先，凯特琳，如果我从小在努纳武特地区的茅屋里长大，
But first, Kaitlyn, if I had, like, grown up in a hut in Nunavut territory,
是的。
which Yes.
我这样说对吗？
Am I saying that correctly?
你说得对。
You are.
是的。
Yes.
作为一个加拿大人。
As a Canadian.
好的。
Alright.
如果没有接触过外部世界，你会如何描述你所参与的这个极其成功的节目系列？
Without any exposure to the outside world, how would you describe the hugely successful franchise that you have been a part of?
像《单身汉》这个系列吗？
Like the bachelor franchise?
嗯。
Uh-huh.
好的。
Okay.
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
这个问题很难回答。
That is a hard question.
基本上，这是一个将一些最美丽、最具争议性、最具戏剧性的女性聚集在一个屋檐下，让她们共同追求同一个男人，看看谁与他最有默契的节目。
Basically, it is a world where you bring in some of the most, I don't know, beautiful, controversial, dramatic people into one home for all of these women to date the same guy and see who has the best connection.
而在外界，如果你随便从街上挑出几对情侣，他们的成功率可能和《单身汉》这个节目的成功率差不多。
And basically, in the outside world, if you were to take a bunch of couples from the street, the ratio would probably be similar to the success rate of the show, the bachelor.
所以你经历了约会的所有步骤。
So you do all the steps of dating.
只是被放大了无数倍。
It's just on steroids.
你经历了初次调情、相互了解、深入交谈、见对方家人、共度一夜、见双方父母，最后单膝跪地求婚，所有这些都发生了。
So you, you know, you have the first, like, flirting moments, getting to know each other, having the deep conversations, meeting each other's families, sleeping in the same bed overnight, then meeting your family, and then getting down on one knee and doing all of that.
所以这本质上就是如何找到丈夫。
So it's basically how to find a husband.
所以这件事是发生在三百年前吗？
So this took place like three hundred years ago?
这真是一个疯狂的世界。
This is really a wild world.
我非常喜欢这两个节目。
I am a huge fan of both franchises.
但让我觉得特别有趣的是，那种我们看不到的、节目所营造的环境。
But what is also so interesting to me is like the environment that's created the stuff that we don't see, of course.
是的。
Yeah.
但我想象一下，第一次在你的人生中没有手机，也无法接触外界。
But I imagine not having your phone, not having access to the outside world for like the first time in your life.
是的。
Yeah.
而把一个人当作奖品。
And having like the trophy be a person Mhmm.
还有那些不安全感，我想你必须得有一些
And like the insecurities, I imagine that you have to have some kind of
他妈的生存技能。
fucking mental survival skills.
说实话，我觉得我加入的时间正好，因为我在大约26、27岁的时候经历了人生中最糟糕的分手。
Honestly, I think I went in at the perfect time because I went through like the most rock bottom breakup of my life when I was like, I don't know, 26, 27.
那时我开始了我的心理咨询之旅。
That was when I started my therapy journey.
我发誓，连续两年每周都做大量心理咨询，让我在参加节目时走进那座满是漂亮女性的豪宅，成为我一生中最自信的时刻。
And I swear doing like so much therapy every week for two years set me up to go on the show where I walked into that mansion full of beautiful women, and I was truly the most confident I'd ever been in my life.
但那种自信在几秒钟内就被剥夺了，因为——不。
And that was ripped from me in like seconds because I was No.
毕竟，谁想看一个自信的女人在约会场景中呢？
Like Because what fun is that to watch a confident woman in a dating scene?
当然，这电视效果不好。
Of course, that's not good TV.
所以，是的。
So, yeah.
当然。
Of course.
结果真的很难。
It ended up just being really hard.
真的很难。
It's really hard.
虽然节目为了戏剧效果做了剪辑，但你仍然在竞争。
It's definitely edited for like the dramatic effect, but you're still competing.
有一段时间，我不得不后退一步，对自己说：等等。
And I had to really, like, take a step back at one point in my life and go, wait.
我是因为他是‘奖品’，而我太好胜才想要他吗？
Am I wanting this guy because he is the prize and I'm super competitive?
还是我真的爱上了这个男人，能想象自己和他在一起？
Or do I actually, like, feel love for this man and can see myself with him?
答案是，我太好胜了。
And the answer was I was being super competitive.
我完全理解，因为前几天我还跟我丈夫说，如果你把《单身汉》的对话逐字记录下来，嗯。
I totally get that because it's also like I was telling my husband the other day, like, if you transcribed The Bachelor Mhmm.
我觉得《单身女郎》稍微有点不一样。
It's a little different with The Bachelorette, I think.
但如果你把《单身汉》的对话逐字记录下来，会发现他们的词汇量好像就只有250个左右。
But if you transcribe transcribe the bachelor, it feels like the total vocabulary is like 250 words.
是的。
Yes.
一段奇妙的旅程。
Amazing journey.
没错。
Yep.
正确的理由。
Right reasons.
所有那些事情。
All the things.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yes.
在那种不确定的情况下，我真的能想象自己开始对这个人产生感情。
In the vagary of like, I could really see myself starting to have feelings for this person.
我知道。
I know.
这简直就像我们在读剧本一样。
It's like we're reading a script almost.
比如，你身处哪里并不重要。
Like, it doesn't matter where you are.
你即使在爱荷华州，爱荷华州也是坠入爱河的完美地方。
You could be in Iowa, and Iowa is the perfect place to fall in love.
没错。
Right.
对。
Right.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Right.
那么，首先，你还在看所有内容吗？
So well, first of all, do you still watch everything?
我的意思是，我觉得你在看，因为你已经深深融入其中了。
I mean, I think you do because you're like embedded.
你就像我们的女王。
You're like our queen.
谢谢。
Thank you.
但你觉得自己比普通人更擅长观看吗？
But do you think that you're a more skillful viewer than like the average person?
是的。
Yes.
因为我不但作为参赛者参加了《单身汉》，之后还担任了《单身女郎》，而且作为主持人还深入了解了两季的幕后情况。
Because not only did I get to go as a contestant on The Bachelor and then be The Bachelorette, but I peaked a little more behind the curtain as the host for two seasons.
所以我感觉自己是以一种不同的视角在观看，这让我感到非常困难，因为在主持人角色中，我总是觉得我不能这么做，因为我知道得太多，总想救他们。
So I feel like I really watch from a different lens, and it makes it incredibly difficult because in that host role, I was like, I can't do this because I know too much and I wanna save them.
我想介入，说：别再跟那个男生在一起了。
And I wanna, like, step in and say, like, don't keep that guy.
而且，作为粉丝，作为了解这一切来龙去脉的人，我确实会这样。
And, like, I actually find myself as a fan and as someone that, like, knows the ins and outs of it.
所以这真的很难。
So it's really hard.
但等等。
But wait.
以你作为《单身女郎》的经历来说，你曾经一度陷入两难——我不是想说得太直白。
So with your experience as The Bachelorette, having kind of like been torn I mean, not to put it like crudely.
是的
Yeah.
你那一季《单身汉》的第二名是谁？
First runner-up on your season of The Bachelor?
第三名。
Third.
第三名。
Third.
是的
Yeah.
当时剩下三个女孩，而我当时心想，天哪。
So there was three girls left, and I actually, at that point, thought I was like, oh my gosh.
这个男人真的深爱着我。
This guy's so in love with me.
他显然会选我。
Like, he's obviously gonna pick me.
然后他让我离开了，我当时就想：什么？
And then he sent me home, and I was like, what?
就在那时，他们让我出演《单身女郎》。
And that's when then they made me The Bachelorette.
做到了
Did it
感觉像我们看到的那样吗？
feel like the blow that we see?
是的。
Yes.
确实有那种感觉。
It does feel like that.
这更像是一种羞辱，因为你当时还有一种灵魂出窍的感觉。
It's more of like humiliating because you also are having an out of body experience.
我一直都是这个节目的粉丝。
Like, I've been a fan of the show for so long.
所以看到克里斯·哈里森走过来，说：‘凯特琳，我真的很抱歉。’
So to see Chris Harrison walk up and be like, Caitlyn, I'm so sorry.
你没得到，我当时想：等等。
You did not get I was like, wait.
我现在就在那个时刻吗？
I'm in that moment right now?
我就是那个女孩？
I'm that girl?
哦，不。
Oh, no.
我想象那一定是凌晨四点左右。
And I imagine it's truly like four in the morning.
是的。
Yeah.
而且你的脚都快没知觉了。
And your feet are like dying.
这次我们在巴厘岛，因为寺庙的规定，不能穿某些衣服。
This one, we were in Bali, and we weren't allowed to wear certain things because of the temple.
所以你的头发必须扎成发髻，还要穿纱笼和上衣。
So your hair had to be in a bun, and you had to wear a sarong and like a blouse.
当时是下午两点，我因为没找到厕所，不小心尿在了腿上。
And it was like two in the afternoon, and I accidentally just peed on my leg because there was no toilets.
我不得不跨坐在地上一个洞口上，但我还是努力从每件事里找乐子。
And I had to like straddle over a hole in the ground, and I was like finding humor in everything.
然后他们说，凯特琳，真的很抱歉。
And then it was like, Caitlin, I'm so sorry.
你没有收到最后一朵玫瑰。
You did not receive the final rose.
请和大家告别吧。
Please say your goodbyes.
我当时就想，什么？
And I'm like, what?
所以成为《单身女郎》的主角，我觉得这本质上就像一场加冕仪式。
So was like becoming the bachelorette, I mean, I imagine that that is essentially like a coronation.
而且我觉得你会受到完全不同的保护。
And I imagine that you're treated with a whole different kind of protection essentially.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
等等。
Wait.
我喜欢你那样说‘不不不’的样子。
I love it that you're like, no no no.
也许这种认知是错误的。
Maybe the perception's incorrect.
嗯，唯一的原因是所谓的‘被保护’，我总是对这一点犹豫不决，因为我永远忘不了有一次制片人把我叫到一旁，他说：‘凯特琳，我们的工作就是让你看起来很棒，但你让我们的工作变得特别难。’
Well, only the fact that like protected, I always go back and forth with that because I'll never forget one of the producers sat me down one time, and he goes, Caitlin, our one job is to make you look good, and you're making our job really hard.
因为我老是违反规则，试图突破限制，偷偷去见镜头外的男生，做各种各样的事。
Because I kept like breaking the rules, and trying to break out, and trying to see the guys off camera, and do all this stuff.
所以从某种意义上说，他们必须保护我这个主角，但我的内心和头脑却完全感觉不到被保护。
So in a sense, they had to protect me as their lead, but my heart and my brain did not feel protected at all.
那种感觉更像是被操纵。
It felt quite manipulated.
所以这就形成了一种奇怪的平衡：一方面确实被保护了，但……
So it's like this weird balance of, yes, protected in one way, but
作为演员，我完全能理解这种感受。
I can totally relate to that as an actor.
是的。
Yeah.
那种被对待得特别脆弱的感觉，嗯。
That feeling where it's like you're treated with a lot of fragility Mhmm.
因为他们不能动摇主角的情绪。
Because they can't like rock the lead's boat.
你会损失钱。
You'll lose money
在
in
制作天数之类的方面，你希望确保他们感觉良好，但与此同时，你却感到脆弱而暴露。
production days or whatever, and you wanna make sure that they feel good, but at the same time, you feel raw and exposed.
是的。
Yeah.
如果有什么类似的情况，比如：我们需要你去健身房。
And if there is something like that, like, okay, we need you to go to the gym.
是的。
Yeah.
我们给你办了健身卡。
Like, we got you a gym membership.
是的。
Yeah.
所以你明白我的意思吗？
So You know what I mean?
就像，是的。
Like Yeah.
对。
Right.
你几乎想要，至少在我这个年纪，我想要更多。
You almost want, at least at my age, I want more.
我现在有能力去要求了。
And I'm able to ask for it now.
而且我会主动去寻求，比如更直接的沟通。
And I seek it out, like, just more direct communication.
是的。
Yeah.
否则，感觉有点居高临下。
Otherwise, it feels like kinda patronizing.
这对我来说是一次非常宝贵的学习经历，因为对你来说，我肯定你经历过演艺事业中的许多不同阶段和时期，边走边学，不断成长和蜕变。
It was such a learning lesson for me because, like, for you, I'm sure you've gone through so many different phases and, like, seasons of your acting career, and learning as you go, and growing, and evolving as an actress.
而对我自己来说，我觉得自己被直接扔了进去，被吞下又吐出来，我当时就想：等等，这是怎么回事？
And then, for myself, I felt like I was, like, thrown in, chewed up, spat out, and I was like, wait, what?
但我学到了很多。
But I've learned so much.
所以如果我再拍电视剧，我会明确提出这样的要求，并对那些事情保持警惕。
So where if I do TV again, I'm like, okay, would ask for this, and I would be like cautious of this.
这真的让我大开眼界。
And it was so eye opening.
我猜你刚开始时可能也有类似的感受，但随着不断成长，你现在已清楚自己该要什么，也知道如何保护自己。
And I'm assuming you might have felt like that at the beginning, but you learn so much as you go that you're at a place in your life where you're I know what to ask for now and how to protect myself.
是的。
Yes.
比如，我现在可以去跟导演说，我是不是太强势了？
Like, I can now go up to a director and say, like, was I too heavy handed?
这个时刻不属于我吗？
Is this moment not mine?
或者，你希望我去做个指甲吗？
Or like, do you want me to do my nails?
是的。
Yeah.
你是在说，帮帮我，让我帮你。
You're like, help me help you.
我明白了。
I got it.
是的。
Yeah.
好吧。
So okay.
你能跟我们说说你的订婚经历吗？
Will you tell us about your engagement?
当然。
Yes.
第二次订婚很特别，因为第一次显然是因为节目，那是一段旋风般的经历，我当时真的以为会成功，但结果并没有。
Being engaged for the second time is interesting because the first time was obviously from the show, and it was like a whirlwind, and I really thought it was gonna work, and then it didn't.
你真的这么以为吗？
Did you really?
我喜欢这一点。
Like, I love that.
我真的以为会成功的。
Oh, I really thought it was gonna work.
这确实是个心碎的经历。
That is a heartbreak though.
是的。
It was.
确实如此，因为这个节目的成功率显然不高。
It really was because that show's success rate is obviously not great.
我当时想，天哪。
And I was like, oh my gosh.
我们可能会成为一段成功的故事，真难以置信，我经历了这么多，才找到那个我要嫁的人。
We're gonna be like a successful story, and how crazy that I went through all of this to find the person that I was gonna marry.
但后来就是没成。
And, yeah, it just never got up.
我们在一起三年半。
We were together for three and a half years.
这真令人印象深刻。
Well, that's impressive.
是的。
Yeah.
但这也意味着巨大的公众压力。
But it's also a shit ton of public pressure.
是的。
Yeah.
而且，我们俩都从未经历过这种事，所以对我们来说非常新鲜。
And like, we had both never experienced that before, so it was very new to us.
我们感受到了很大的压力。
We felt a lot of pressure.
而且，这段关系的起点简直糟糕透顶，因为我之前显然一直和很多其他男生约会。
It was also like a terrible shitty foundation to start a relationship on because I've obviously been like dating all these other guys.
所以第二次订婚时，我想的是：首先，我从来没想过自己这辈子会结婚。
So then being engaged the second time, I'm like, first of I never thought I would get married in my whole life.
我从来没幻想过自己的婚礼。
I never dreamt about my wedding.
我从来没想过我会结婚。
I was never like, I'm gonna get married.
我完全理解你。
I'm totally with you.
我现在正处于第三次，也是最后一次婚姻。
And I'm now on my third and final marriage.
瞧，这不就对了。
See, there you go.
但现在我明白了。
But now I get that.
我觉得这很有道理。
I'm like, that makes makes a lot of sense.
我认为离婚、第二次订婚都没什么可羞耻的，因为我觉得，嘿。
I think there's no shame around divorce, around being engaged the second time because I'm like, hey.
如果第三次发生，也不是说每个人都会觉得，天哪。
And if it happens a third, not saying everyone's gonna be like, oh god.
她暗示着要分手。
She's hinting a breakup.
但对我来说，我觉得这有什么关系呢？
But to me, I'm like, who cares?
谁真的在乎呢？
Who really cares?
是的。
Yeah.
我非常感激这一点。
I so appreciate that.
我觉得，我应该因为像个浪漫的人，重新跨上那匹马而受到称赞吧？
I'm like, shouldn't I be commended for being like a romantic and getting back on that horse?
在我看来，确实应该。
In my opinion, it is.
我觉得我们只是被社交媒体上某些人或那些试图遵循固定模式的人施加了太大压力。
And I feel like we're just so pressured by, you know, people on social media or certain people that are trying to follow this blueprint.
如果那并不能让你快乐呢？
And what if that doesn't make you happy?
为什么我们不应该因为离开让人不开心的关系，然后再次尝试而受到称赞呢？
Why shouldn't we be commended for getting out of something that made us unhappy and trying something again?
我觉得这很美好。
Like, I think it's beautiful.
凯特琳，你之前提到过你加入这个宇宙之前分手的事。
Caitlin, you mentioned earlier about your breakup before you joined the universe.
是的。
Yeah.
但你能跟我们说说那段经历吗？
But will you tell us about that?
那段感情是怎么结束的？
Like, how did that end?
你是怎么慢慢重新站起来的？
And how did you kinda get back on your feet?
那至今可能还是我人生中最艰难的时期。
Well, was still to this day probably the roughest time of my life.
这段关系持续了多久？
How long was the relationship?
这段关系持续了三年。
It was three years.
所以他打冰球。
So he played hockey.
哦，运动员啊。
Oh, athletes.
他们会让你受伤。
They'll get you.
直到今天，我仍然相信我那时拥有一段不错的感情。
And I still believe to this day that I actually had a good one.
我觉得95%的运动员都让我害怕。
I would say 95 of athletes scare the hell out of me.
我相信我遇到的那个人，到今天依然是个好人。
And I believe I had someone that was like such a good person still to this day.
所以这挺艰难的，因为那时我正处在人生中必须做出决定的阶段。
And so it was kind of tough because I was at a place in my life where I had to make a decision.
我没有接受过高等教育。
I didn't get education.
我高中毕业了，但没有上大学。
I graduated high school, and then I didn't go to college.
我以为我会一辈子跳舞。
I thought I was gonna dance my whole life.
我当时想，我要当一名舞者，环游世界，但后来意识到自己还不够格。
I was like, I'm gonna be a dancer and travel the world, and I realized I wasn't good enough to do that.
于是我就想，好吧。
And so I was like, okay.
我在一家餐厅工作，一边努力当舞者，一边教人转圈。
I'm working at a restaurant trying to make it as a dancer, teaching the spin.
我觉得这个人就是我要嫁的人，所以我还不如陪他一起走他的路。
And I was like, this is the guy I'm gonna marry, so I might as well go with him on his journey.
你知道的，他是冰球运动员，所以得跟着他到处跑。
You know, he's a hockey player, so he had to go.
他当时是自由球员，所以一直在被交易，这儿那儿地换地方，然后
And he was like a free agent, so he's getting traded, and he's going here, and he's going there, and then
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
他受了
He got
严重的伤病，所以我们去了德国。
a bad injury, so we ended up in Germany.
那段时间发生的事是，你的人生正处于一个非常脆弱的阶段，要决定自己到底想要什么，
And what happened was over that time, it's such a fragile place in your life to try me deciding, like, what do I want?
但你25岁的时候不会这样想。
But you're not thinking that way at 25.
你只会觉得，他想要这样，那我就陪在他身边，而且
You're like, well, he wants this, and I'll be here for And
这就像和演员约会一样，总是充满不确定性。
It's like dating an actor in the sense of like the constant uncertainty.
是的
Yeah.
压力真的很大。
The stakes feel really high.
是的
Yeah.
你被置于一个照顾者的角色。
And you're put in a position of caretaker.
对。
Yes.
对。
Yes.
在这个过程中，我完全迷失了自我。
And I completely lost myself along the way.
我甚至没什么朋友，因为在德国我谁的语言都不会说。
I didn't even really have friends because I couldn't speak anybody's language in Germany.
我找不到工作。
I couldn't get a job.
他总是出差。
He was always on the road.
我不想向别人要钱，所以我就办了一个很小的手机套餐，经常用完，没法在超市查东西，甚至听不懂别人说话，因为我不会说德语。
I did not wanna ask for money, so I would like get my own little phone plan that, like, ran out, and I couldn't Google things at the grocery store, and I couldn't even hear people's conversations because I couldn't speak the language.
我非常孤独，觉得自己一无是处，已经不再是原来的自己了。
I was so lonely, and I felt like I had nothing to offer, and I was shell of myself.
我记得那时体重只有九十七磅，情绪低落，状态糟糕透了。
And I remember being like ninety seven pounds and depressed and like just not okay.
尽管当时我觉得这是最糟糕的事，但他结束这段关系，其实算是给了我一份善意的恩惠。
And I think he kind of did me a gracious favor by ending it even though at the time, was like, this is the worst thing that could ever happen to me.
是的。
Yeah.
但我实在无法继续那种生活方式，而他也知道我做不到。
But I just couldn't live that lifestyle, and he knew that I couldn't.
这显然让他和我都情绪低落，所以他提出了分手。
And it was obviously bringing him down and me down, and so he ended it.
我身无分文。
And I had no money.
我没有工作。
I had no job.
我没有抱负，没有事业，也没有受过教育。
I had no ambition or career or education.
我当时就想，这有什么意义呢？
And I was like, what is the point?
那真的太难了。
And it was so hard.
那你飞回去了吗？
So did you fly that?
我飞回了父母那里。
I flew to my parents.
我妈妈和继父住在凤凰城，我立刻飞过去，住在他们家，睡在沙发上。
My mom and my stepdad were in Phoenix, and I flew there immediately and lived at their house and slept on the couch.
我实际上对地西泮有点上瘾，因为我只是想让自己麻木。
And I actually got like a little bit addicted to Valium because I would just numb myself.
后来情况越来越糟，我妈妈每晚都会进来，给我播放一个关于‘你很好’的催眠YouTube视频。
And it just got to a point where my mom was actually coming in at night and putting on a YouTube video of like hypnosis of like, you are okay.
最终，情况变得极其糟糕，但后来慢慢好转了。
And eventually, it got so bad, but it got better.
这真是
This is
像一部浪漫喜剧的开头。
like the beginning of a great rom com.
你就像把毯子拉过头顶。
You're like pulling the blanket over your head.
哦。
Oh.
你妈妈说，宝贝，太阳又出来了。
Your mom's like, the sun is shining again, honey.
出去走走。
Go outside.
你心里想，我这辈子再也无法重见光明了。
You're like, I'm never gonna shine again in my heart.
那就是我。
Was me.
你肯定在想，我怎么走到这一步的。
It's like, I bet you're wondering how I got here.
就是那一天。
You know, that whole day.
那就是我故事的开端。
That's like the start of my story.
但再说一遍，随着时间推移，你总会面临选择：是继续赖在父母的沙发上，还是重新走出去，找份工作，开始生活，重新联系朋友。
But again, it was just like over time, you have a choice where it's like, I can continue to live on my parents' couch, or I can like get back out there and find a job, start working, like, get back to my friends.
你经历了典型的二十岁人生。
You lived, like, the quintessential twenties experience.
是的。
Yeah.
你的情绪依然像青少年一样敏感脆弱。
Your emotions are still really raw like a teenager's.
是的。
Yeah.
等你到了四十岁，凯特琳，你就差不多麻木了。
And then when you're in your forties, Caitlin, you're just kinda numb.
是的。
Yeah.
我等不及了。
I can't wait.
是的。
Yeah.
这就像一种自然的价值。
It's like a natural value.
是的。
Yeah.
听起来很棒。
That sounds great.
我等不及了。
I can't wait.
我还差两年半呢。
I'm like two and a half years away.
等不及了。
Can't wait.
大家都在问你关于婚礼的事吗？
Is everyone asking you about, like, wedding shit?
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
是的。
Yes.
我也从来不是那种喜欢婚礼的人。
I was never a wedding person either.
对。
Yeah.
我一直觉得，就我的事业而言，我已经拥有了足够多的美好特别时刻。
And I've always felt like with my career, I've had kind of enough of my special moment that has been wonderful.
是的。
Yeah.
我能理解那些特别希望婚礼成为他们人生首秀的人。
Like, I can understand someone who really wants to have their wedding day be like their premier Mhmm.
本质上是这样。
Essentially.
嗯。
Mhmm.
而且我已经觉得自己很幸运，体验过一些那样的时刻。
And I already felt like I had the good fortune of sort of experience some of those moments.
而且和你一样，从小我就不太确定自己的人生道路是什么样的
And also just growing up like you, I wasn't even sure what my journey was
对。
Right.
对。
Right.
就婚姻而言。
In terms of marriage.
是的。
Yeah.
但你们有定下日期吗？有没有感到压力？
But do you guys have, like, date and, like, has it been stressful?
没有。
No.
很好。
Good.
为你高兴。
Good for you.
我们还没有确定日期，而且我一直在犹豫，这正是社交媒体让人感到压力的地方，因为我是个特别坦诚的人，通过社交媒体分享了我生活的很多内容，所以我感到有些压力，因为我已经敞开心扉，分享了这么多，还谈到了这段订婚，当时我真的很兴奋。
We don't have a date and I go back and forth with and this is where social media can be stressful because I'm such an open book and I share so much of my life with people through social media that I feel a little bit of pressure because I'm like, I've opened up and I've shared so much and I've talked about this engagement, and I was so excited.
然后我把所有人都带进了我的世界，接着我就想，唉，大家能不能别给我这么大压力。
And then I bring everyone along with me, and then I'm like, ugh, people need to like stop putting pressure on me.
他们说：但你已经向我们敞开了你的世界。
And they're like, but you opened up your world to us.
我心想：哦，确实如此。
And I'm like, oh, that's true.
他们只是关心你。
And they just care.
关于《单身汉》粉丝群和追随者，他们非常忠诚，也非常在意。
And the thing about Bachelor Nation and the followers, they're so loyal and they care so much.
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有时候这会让人感觉有压力，有时我也会感到沮丧。
And sometimes that can come across as pressure and sometimes I can get frustrated.
但归根结底，杰森和我还没定下日期。
But at the end of the day, Jason and I have just not set a date.
我们已经坐下来好几次，想试着列个宾客名单。
We have sat down so many times to like try and be like, okay, let's put together a guest list.
但我们俩都会感到压力和不知所措，然后就彻底放弃了。
And we both get stressed out and overwhelmed and then we're Totally.
累得不行，干脆说：去他的。
Tired and we're like, screw it.
这有点像一个两难境地，因为你一开始得先找场地。
It's a little bit of like the catch 22 because you start out, you need to like find the venue.
而要找场地，就得先确定你想请多少人。
In order to do that, you have to figure out how many people you want.
所以自然而然的顺序应该是先列宾客名单。
So then the natural order is to start with a guest list.
是的
Yeah.
然后你就想，等等，你想邀请你教练的表亲？等等，谁？
And then it's like, wait, you wanna invite your coach's cousin from wait, what?
对。
Yes.
对。
Yes.
或者你想，呃，那个人还会带个伴，那就得多花150美元。
Or it's like, ugh, like that person's gonna bring a date and then that's an extra $150.
我知道。
I know.
太疯狂了。
It's crazy.
所以我建议私奔。
So I would suggest eloping.
告诉杰森，因为我绝对会选择私奔。
Tell Jason that because I would totally elope.
他才是那个一直梦想着完美婚礼的人。
He's the one that's thought about, like, the dream wedding.
但说实话，经过我们讨论，梳理了宾客名单、预算——他特别注重财务和预算，觉得婚礼太贵了。
But I mean, now that we've talked about it and gone over, like, the guest list or the budget or he's totally into finances and budgeting, and he's like, a wedding is so expensive.
确实太贵了。
It's so expensive.
我总是说，人们往往会暴露真实想法。
And I always say that, like, people kinda show their hand.
是的。
Yeah.
比如，如果他们有什么不满，就会在桌面上提出来，这很烦人。
Like, if they have, like, some kind of grievance, they're going to bring it to the table and it's annoying.
而其他人则可能会让你惊喜，表现出他们的淡定和支持。
And then other people will kinda surprise you with their chillness and their support.
对。
Right.
但确实，我觉得婚礼真的特别棘手。
But, yeah, I do think that weddings are just so tricky.
我总是喜欢这一点，因为我们经常接到关于婚礼问题的来电，
What I always like because we get a lot of callers who have wedding questions,
我很喜欢。
which I love.
是的。
Yeah.
最重要的建议是第二天就搭飞机去度蜜月，是的。
Like, the biggest advice is getting on a plane the next day, going on a honeymoon Yeah.
第二天就去，别推迟。
The next day, not putting it off.
尤其是如果你有
Especially if you have a
如果是大型婚礼或规模较大的婚礼，就会有圣诞节后的12月26日这种情况。
big wedding or a sizable wedding, there's like that December 26 if you celebrate Christmas.
是的。
Yes.
那种感觉就是，哦，接下来该怎么办？
That feeling of like, oh, like, what now?
好像我们不再有那种期待了。
Like, there isn't that thing that we're
没错。
true.
就像幸福后的空虚感。
It's like the happiness hangover.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yeah.
我们的许多对话都围绕着这场盛大的派对，庆祝我们自己
Like, many of our conversations have been focused around this massive party celebrating us
是的。
Yep.
还有我们的未来。
And our future.
是的。
Yep.
所以，拥有一个其他值得期待的放松方式，我觉得真的很重要。
And so having that idea to, like, decompress something else to look forward to, I just think is really important.
我仍然觉得，凯特琳，如果我能为你和杰森策划一场婚礼，我会选择去大溪地私奔。
I still think, Caitlin, if I could plan a wedding for you and Jason, it would be to elope to Tahiti.
比如，先在某个地方合法登记结婚
Like, maybe do it legally someplace
是的。
Yeah.
安静点，随便吧。
Quietly, whatever.
私奔去塔希提，然后举办一场盛大的乡村牧场舞会，邀请所有人参加。
Elope to Tahiti and have, a big country ranch hoedown party with everybody.
这听起来太理想了。
That sounds ideal.
老实说，时间拖得越久，这个想法对我们俩就越有吸引力。
And honestly, the longer time that goes on, the more that sounds very appealing to both of us.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得这主要是你们俩的事，取决于你们想怎么安排。
I think this is kinda just for you guys and how you guys wanna proceed.
很多人都说，如果你们真想结婚，早就办了。
So many people are like, if you guys wanted to get married, you would do it.
你们怎么找这么多借口？
Why are you finding so many excuses?
我觉得这根本不是借口。
And I'm like, it's not even excuses.
这真的只是让人压力很大。
It's truly just stressful.
你们都很忙。
And you guys are busy.
是的。
Yeah.
太忙了。
So busy.
如果你有一个很好的支持系统，这确实很容易，而这是必要的，但要投入大量精力和金钱
And it's easy to if you have, like, a great support system, which is necessary, but it's hard to dedicate a ton of energy and money
对。
Yes.
为每个人办一场盛大的派对。
Into a big party for everybody.
是的。
Yeah.
确实如此。
It's true.
确实如此。
It's true.
说实话，私奔听起来真的很对我胃口。
Honestly, eloping is sounding like right up my alley.
凯特琳，你的工作室在哪里？
Caitlin, where is your studio?
我在纳什维尔。
I'm in Nashville.
你喜欢纳什维尔吗？
Do you love Nashville?
我喜欢。
I do.
我非常喜欢。
I love it.
我曾经在加拿大住了很久。
I lived in Canada like for so long.
在温哥华。
In Vancouver.
温哥华。
Vancouver.
是的。
Yeah.
因为我是在西雅图长大的。
Because I grew up in Seattle.
所以我说：‘真的吗？’
So I'm like Oh, you did?
那种氛围。
Of that vibe.
是的。
Yeah.
哦。
Oh.
天哪。
Oh, my gosh.
我爱西雅图。
I love Seattle.
但我从未去过
But I've never been
纳什维尔，大家都很喜欢那里。
to Nashville, and people love it.
是的。
Yeah.
那真是个好地方。
It's a good time.
天气简直太疯狂了。
The weather is bananas.
比如昨天，气温是78度。
Like yesterday, it was 78.
今天，气温只有42度。
Today, it's 42.
真的，这天气太离谱了。
Like, it's just bananas.
但这座城市真的很有趣。
But it's such a fun city.
你觉得这里是家吗？
Do you think of that as home?
是的。
Yes.
我现在觉得这里开始有点像家了，因为我已经在这里住了七年。
I would say this is just starting to feel like that now because I have been here now seven years.
但温哥华以前对我来说也有这种感觉，但现在完全不是了。
But Vancouver used to feel like that for me, but it really doesn't anymore.
所以我会说纳什维尔。
So I would say Nashville.
是的。
Yeah.
温哥华可能是个冷漠的地方。
Vancouver can be a cold state.
我曾在那儿工作过几次，那种冷是指很难交到朋友。
I've worked there a few times, and it can be cold in the sense of, you know, it's hard to make friends.
对。
Yes.
这在加拿大真是奇怪。
Which is so bizarre for Canada.
我也有同样的感受。
I felt that same way.
是的。
Yeah.
西雅图也可能这样。
Seattle can be like that too.
是的。
Yeah.
他们称之为西雅图冷淡症。
They call it the Seattle freeze.
不就是这个意思吗？
Isn't that what it is?
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
人们真的很有礼貌。
People are really polite.
嗯嗯。
Mhmm.
但不热情。
But not warm.
是的。
Yeah.
就像我第一次去新奥尔良时，我想：这是怎么回事？
Like with the first time I went to New Orleans, I was like, what is happening?
我被邀请去一个陌生人的
I'm invited to this stranger's like
是的。
Yeah.
小龙虾宴。
Crawfish boil.
这太不可思议了。
This is incredible.
是的。
Yes.
而且我认为，当你从未经历过这种事时，真的会感到震惊。
And I think it is really shocking when you've never experienced that before.
对。
Yeah.
我同意。
I agree.
我小时候住的地方感觉是那样的，但温哥华就没那么明显。
It felt like that where I grew up, but Vancouver not so much.
我小时候在阿尔伯塔省长大，然后20岁时搬到了温哥华。
Like, I grew up in Alberta and then moved to Vancouver when I was 20.
阿尔伯塔的感觉是那样的，但温哥华就不是。
And Alberta felt like that, and then Vancouver didn't.
后来我习惯了那种氛围，然后来到南方，心想：哦，真好啊。
And then I got used to that, and then I came into the South, and I was like, oh, so nice.
凯尔西。
Kelsey.
你好。
Hello.
嗨。
Hi.
我今天和凯特琳在一起，我真的很想成为她最好的朋友。
I'm here with Caitlin who I really wanna be like her new best friend.
你是的。
You are.
我非常爱你。
I adore you.
凯尔西，我也非常爱你。
Kelsey, I adore you too.
非常感谢你的来信。
Thank you so much for your letter.
你能告诉我们发生了什么吗？
Will you tell us what's going on?
所以我在寻找一些精子。
So I'm looking for some sperm.
我想生个孩子。
Well, I wanna have a baby.
所以你37岁了。
So you are 37.
是的。
Yes.
你真的很想当妈妈。
And you really wanna be a mom.
对。
Yeah.
这听起来是这样。
Which is listen.
这些问题完全没有评判的意思。
There's no judgment at all in these questions.
但这会超越关系的概念吗？
But does it supersede the idea of a relationship?
听起来确实如此。
It sounds like it does.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，那当然是理想的，但那并不是我觉得我必须拥有的东西。
I mean, that would be ideal, but that's not something I feel like I need.
嗯。
Mhmm.
很好。
Great.
好的。
Okay.
那么，既然我们有了些许背景，现在来谈谈你的故事吧。
So tell us your story now that we have a little bit of that context.
我的意思是，我一直想要一个孩子。
I mean, I wanted a child.
就在去年，我下定决心了，因为我一直说，我想当妈妈，但无论以何种方式成为妈妈都没关系。
It was this past year that I decided because I've always said like, oh, I want to be a mother, but it doesn't matter how I become a mother.
但去年，我开始想，我希望自己能怀孕并生下孩子。
But then this past year, I started to think I would like to have a baby and carry it.
我同时也是一名分娩陪护。
I'm also a birth doula.
所以我整天都和孕妇以及婴儿在一起。
So I'm around pregnant people and babies all the time.
顺便说一句，我很喜欢你说到这个时微笑的样子。
I love it that that makes you smile, by the way.
是的
Yeah,
这很棒。
it's great.
我只是想创作艺术，并帮助人们生育孩子。
I just want to create art and help people have babies.
这就是我想用一生去做的事情。
Like that's what I want to do with my life.
这就是我为什么来到这个在太空中飞行的星球上。
That's why I'm here on this rock flying through space.
我真的非常想做到这一点。
And I would really like to do it.
我以前有过一段关系，曾协助抚养一个孩子，那很难，但我真的很喜欢。
I've been in a relationship before where I helped parent a child and it was really hard, but I really liked it.
你现在还能接触到那个孩子吗？
Do you have access to that child anymore?
他们现在长大了，我们可以发短信联系。
They're old enough now that we can text.
好的。
Okay.
所以偶尔我们会发短信，因为他们现在长大了。
So occasionally, we text like they're old enough now.
好的。
Okay.
但确实如此。
But yeah.
哦，那很难受。
Oh, that was hard.
那是很久以前的事了，但确实很难。
Like, it was a while ago, but that was hard.
我现在是单身。
I am single.
疫情根本没帮上忙。
Like, the pandemic did not help with that at all.
你不是一个人？
You're not alone?
我正努力重新开始社交，但很难认识新人。
And I am trying to get back out there, but it's hard to meet people.
我不喜欢那些应用。
I don't like the apps.
它们太糟糕了。
They're awful.
一点都不有趣。
They're not fun.
而且我也说不准。
And I don't know.
比如，我偶尔会喝点酒，我本来不是那种经常外出的人，但最近我出去得更多了，也做了更多有趣的事情。
Like, I sort of drink and, like, I'm not somebody who, like, goes out a lot, but I've been going out more and doing more fun things.
但这也很难，因为我觉得这就是我想做的事。
But it's also hard because I'm like, this is what I want to do.
我37岁了，这并不算太老。
I'm 37, which is not completely too old.
完全不老。
Not at all.
好的。
Okay.
我关于做母亲的经历有点不一样。
My own journey with, like, motherhood has been a little different.
我甚至不确定自己是不是真的想要孩子。
I wasn't even sure I necessarily wanted to have kids.
我的事业对我来说非常重要。
My career felt very important to me.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我35岁的时候，尝试了一年之后怀孕了。
I got pregnant at 35 after trying mildly for a year.
你知道的。
You know?
是的。
Yeah.
你可以任意解读这句话。
Interpret that however you will.
我真的很惊讶，我并不能说享受怀孕的过程。
I was really surprised about how I wouldn't say I enjoyed pregnancy.
我确实在倒数日子，但我感觉很好。
I was definitely counting the days, but I felt really good.
我感觉非常情绪稳定。
I felt really, like, emotionally stable.
有一些意外。
There were surprises.
现在我有了一个很棒的10岁孩子。
And now I have, like, an awesome 10 year old.
他早产了，只有31周。
He was born at thirty one weeks.
我30周的时候羊水破了。
My water broke at 30.
所以他出生时只有三磅，我们经历了整个过程，你知道的。
So he was, three pounds, and we did the whole, you know
是的。
Yeah.
但他很棒，我们真的很幸运。
But he's awesome, and we're really lucky.
我感到非常感恩。
And I feel really grateful.
我第一次读到你的信时，真的在想，我希望我能说服她使用精子捐赠者。
When I first read your letter, I was really thinking, I kinda hope I can convince her to use a sperm donor.
嗯。
Mhmm.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这对你来说意味着什么？
How does that register with you?
我有一些朋友这样做过，这让我对他们有这么多孩子感到有点不安。
I have friends who have done that, and it makes me a little bit nervous about them having so many siblings.
这让我感到不安，而且也很昂贵。
That is something that makes me nervous and also is expensive.
我的意思是，精子部分每瓶要800到1000美元，他们建议在做试管婴儿之前先尝试四次。
I mean, the sperm part is like 800 to $1,000 a vial, and they suggest doing it four times before doing IVF type stuff.
而那可能会更贵。
And then that could be even more.
对。
Right.
我有一些朋友花了超过十万美元来组建他们的家庭。
I have friends that sent over a $100,000 to make their family.
哦，这可能是一笔巨款。
Oh, it can be a fortune.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
但我觉得我不确定。
And I feel like I don't know.
我的意思是，我还没有去看过生育专家之类的人。
I mean, I also haven't gone to see a fertility specialist or anything like that yet.
但我知道你的意思，因为如果我想独自生育，我的意思是我并不想束缚谁。
But I know what you mean because if I want to do it alone, then I mean, I'm not trying to trap somebody or anything like that.
我只是觉得，如果你的驱动力是在40岁前生孩子，嗯。
I just feel like if your drive is to have a baby before you're 40 Mhmm.
我希望你能实现这个愿望。
I want you to have that.
另一方面，凯尔西，我们的听众感到巨大的压力，必须立即做出重大人生决定。
On the other side of this, Kelsey, our callers feel so much pressure to make big life decisions immediately.
比如，我该结婚吗？
Like, should I get married?
我该辞职吗？
Should I quit my job?
我该搬去另一个州吗？
Should I move across the country?
我该如何向前推进呢？
Like, how do I propel forward?
不知怎么的，又出现了一片乌云，催促我立刻做决定。
Like, somehow, this other cloud came in that was, like, make decisions right now.
是的。
Yeah.
我真希望告诉每个人，没关系的。
I wish I could tell everyone it's okay.
就像火车正缓缓驶离车站。
Like, the train is just slowly leaving the station.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我们不必做出这些重大的人生决定。
We don't have to make these massive life decisions.
凯尔西，我理解你已经37岁了，可能需要一些时间才能怀孕。
Kelsey, I do understand that you are 37, and it may take a minute for you to get pregnant.
是的。
Yeah.
我不
I don't
想忽视这一点。
wanna discount that.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但是，凯特琳，你有什么想法？
But, Caitlin, what are your thoughts?
我喜欢听。
I love listening.
凯尔西，非常感谢你和我们分享这些。
And, Kelsey, thank you so much for sharing this with us too.
这真的很私密。
Like, it's so personal.
有时候，你需要一个社群，和别人聊聊，才能更好地理解、有所感悟，或者感到被看见和被倾听。
Sometimes you need community and people to talk this through with to, you know, have a better understanding or idea or feel seen and heard.
所以谢谢你。
So thank you.
我也37岁了，我也想要孩子。
I'm also 37, and I too wanna have babies.
我一直在思考这些问题。
And I think about this stuff all the time.
所以当我听到你的问题和你所感受到的一切时，我想，哦，我能理解这种感受。
So when I was hearing your question and things that you've been feeling, I was like, oh, I can understand that.
我订婚了。
I'm engaged.
所以情况不一样。
So it's a different situation.
但确实如此。
But Yeah.
我以前经常觉得，我可以独自完成这件事。
I've often thought that I could do it on my own before.
所以对我来说，显然，费用问题确实是个考量。
So to me, obviously, the expense thing, like, that's something.
但其实这个问题是想问你的。
But it was actually a question for you.
精子捐赠者可以通过人工授精的方式实现受孕，而无需进行试管婴儿，成本更低。
Sperm donors can be artificially inseminated without doing IVF at a lower cost.
对吧？
Right?
你还在说这个吗？
And is that still what you're talking about?
这叫宫腔内人工授精。
It's called an IUI.
我的一个朋友，她自己做的，找了个助产士。
One of my friends, she did it herself, like, so with a midwife.
就像她
Like, she
像用火鸡注射器吗？
Is it like a turkey baster?
就是那种
Like, is that kind of
是的，不过比火鸡注射器小多了，但她自己操作的。
It is, but it I mean, it's a lot smaller than a turkey baster, but she plunged it herself.
所以她自己进行了人工授精。
So she inseminated herself.
是的。
Yeah.
那这样做还是贵吗？
And is that still expensive to do?
嗯，是的。
Well, yeah.
比如，精子费用，据她说，大约在800到1000美元之间。
Like, the sperm, I think it was between 800 and $1,000
好的。
Okay.
据她所说。
From what she said.
有一次，我觉得这件事是完全可以做到的。
One time, like, that's something that I feel is doable.
当然
Of
了
course.
但你知道，如果第一次不成功，再试一次，对吧。
But, you know, if it doesn't work, then doing it again, you know Right.
我只能存钱再做一次。
I would just have to save for it.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得你应该先从这个开始。
And I feel like you should just start with that.
你已经显得有点灰心了，不如先试一次，看看会发生什么。
Like, you already seem a little bit discouraged with it where it's like you can just start once and see, you know, what happens.
是的。
Yeah.
但有没有办法申请只使用过有限次数的精子呢？
But also, is there a way to request a sperm that has only been used like x amount of times?
我不知道。
I don't know.
我的意思是，我觉得应该可以。
I mean, I think so.
因为我知道你担心会有很多同父异母的兄弟姐妹。
Because I know you're worried that it would be, like, a lot of the siblings out there.
但是
But
我倒觉得这根本不是个问题。
I kinda feel like that's a non issue.
是的。
Yeah.
对我来说，这根本不会是决定性因素，因为我会有自己非常私人的关系，等孩子长大后再慢慢处理这些问题。
To me, that would not be make or break at all because I would have my own very personal relationship and then kind of deal with that stuff as the kid gets older.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
你得坦诚相告，比如在和某人亲密之前，问问对方：你知道自己是不是精子捐赠者的后代吗？
You'd have to be transparent about, hey, before you're intimate with somebody, like asking them, do you know if you have a sperm donor?
你知道的，
You know how
我们有时会用不同的方式来表达压力吗？
we sometimes use different avenues to express our stress?
我总是举这样一个例子：婚礼上，婆婆穿了和新娘妈妈相似颜色的衣服，然后就为此大惊小怪，但其实真正的问题是她只是对变化感到恐惧。
And I always use the example of, like, the mother-in-law at a wedding wearing a similar color to the mother of the bride and, like, spinning out about that when really the heart of the issue is that she's just terrified of the change.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我觉得，对于精子捐赠者这个群体，应该和这段重要的关系保持非常明确的分离。
That's just how I feel is that the sperm donor world, that person should be very separate, I think, from this important relationship.
他们出于某种原因决定捐精，这完全没问题。
They made the decision to donate sperm for whatever reason, and that is totally fine.
而你决定利用这些资源来照顾和养育孩子。
And you made the decision to utilize that to care and nurture for a baby.
我想知道，在你的产婆世界里，有没有一些你还没利用过的资源？
I'm wondering in your doula world, are there resources that you can tap that maybe you haven't yet?
嗯。
Mhmm.
我理解确实存在一些经济问题，但你可以主动寻求建议，先问一些基本问题，比如：如何在不花太多钱的情况下确保自己有生育能力？
Because I do understand that there's some financial issue, you know, but you could reach out and get advice and ask some early initial questions about, like, how do I make sure that I'm fertile without spending a lot of money?
比如，有没有哪种药物可以帮助提高我的生育能力？
Like, can I take a specific drug that will help my fertility?
嗯。
Mhmm.
我吃过一种药，记不清名字了，但这种药从七十年代就开始使用了。
I took a drug that I can't remember what it was, but it's been used since, like, the seventies.
你得在每个月的特定时间服用。
You take it at specific times during the month.
大概有五成的概率。
There's, like, a fifty fifty chance.
我医生告诉我，这确实有效。
This is what my doctor told me that it actually works.
或者她说是五成的概率我会怀双胞胎。
Or maybe she said there was a fifty fifty chance that I was gonna have twins.
哦，是不是以
Oh, is it starts with
c开头？
a c?
是的。
Yes.
没错。
It does.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得这相对便宜。
Which I think is relatively inexpensive.
也许在你的圈子里，你能想到谁有这种资源，可以直接打电话过去说：这真的是我想认真考虑的事情？
Maybe in your world, like, is there anyone you can think of with that kind of resource that you could cold call and say, this is something I really wanna think seriously about?
因为找到合作伙伴，是另一回事。
Because the finding a partner Yeah.
是完全不同的事情。
Is a whole different thing.
嗯。
Mhmm.
听起来你的重点是想体验做母亲。
And it sounds like your focus is you want to experience motherhood.
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
确实有人。
There are people.
当然。
Definitely.
我的意思是，这还是我最近才开始谈论的话题。
I mean, this is something that I've just started to talk about.
然后我就想，做播客其实是个很好的方式，可以让大家知道我正开始考虑这件事。
And then I was like, well, a podcast is a really good way to, like, let everybody know that I this is something Start that I
女演员们。
the actresses.
我开始，我开始
That Start I Start
开个播客，然后咨询医疗专业人士。
the a podcast and then talk to a medical professional.
当然。
Definitely.
你永远不知道这会打开哪些门。
Well, you never know what doors that could open.
我就是这么跟我朋友说的。
That's what I was telling my friends.
我的一个朋友在某个地方做事情时，跟别人提起，对方就说：我想生孩子，但我没有，你知道的？
I mean, like one of my friends was doing something somewhere and was telling somebody and then they were like, I think I wanna, you know, have a child, but I don't have a you know?
于是她就说：如果你想找这个人聊聊，告诉我一声。
And so she was like, let me know if you wanna talk to this person.
所以，你知道吗，我觉得也许这样就可以了？
And so, you know, I mean, I'm like, maybe that way, you know?
为什么
Why
不呢？
not?
我也觉得，我不知道。
I'm also like, I don't know.
我的意思是，到了人生这个阶段，至少去和这位先生喝杯咖啡吧。
I mean, at this point in life, it feels like at least go have coffee with this fella.
也许他想和你生个不要任何关系的孩子。
Maybe if he wants to have a no strings attached baby with you.
或者他们想和一个不是恋爱关系的人共同抚养孩子。
Or it's like if they want to like, co parenting with somebody that's not like you're in a relationship with.
但即使是已婚的人，也只有在成为父母之后才知道该如何共同抚养孩子。
But even people who are married don't know how they're gonna co parent until they're a parent.
他们说：没错。
And they're like Right.
是的。
Yeah.
他们是一对夫妻，但有着非常不同的观点和想法。
They're a couple, but they have very different views and ideas.
是的。
Yeah.
这很常见。
That is common.
我认为这占大多数，但
I think that that is the majority But, of
是的，不，我确实有可以和他们聊这件事的人。
yeah, no, I do have people that I can talk to about that.
我并不完全反对精子捐赠者。
And I'm not totally against a sperm donor.
我只是觉得，通过发生性关系怀孕会简单得多。
I just was like, that would be a lot easier to just get pregnant by having sex.
但就连这一点也并没有经常发生。
But that even hasn't been anything that's been happening very much.
所以我就想，
So I'm like,
大家在哪里？
where is everybody?
凯尔西，你住在一个大城市吗？
Do you live in a big city, Kelsey?
嗯。
Mhmm.
我住在纳什维尔。
I live in Nashville.
我也是。
Me too.
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
你好。
Hi.
这里有一种奇妙的缘分。
There's something so kismet here.
另外，我的一个朋友是不孕不育护士，我真希望你能和她聊一聊。
Also, one of my friends is a fertility nurse, and I would love to even just have you have a conversation with her.
天哪。
Oh, my god.
这感觉像起了鸡皮疙瘩。
This feels like getting chills.
这真是
This is
这感觉太奇怪了，我觉得我们今天本就应该进行这场对话。
this is some weird like, I feel like we were all supposed to have this conversation today.
我有点起鸡皮疙瘩了。
I'm getting a little goosebumps.
是的。
Yeah.
但凯尔西，你知道吗，有趣的是，我的意思是，这太棒了。
But Kelsey, you know what's interesting about well, I mean, this is amazing.
但凯尔西，这件事还有个有趣的地方，就是我本来现在就想问问你的社交情况。
But what's also interesting about this, Kelsey, is that I was gonna ask about your socialization right now.
我会从我的角度来说明一下背景。
And I'll put this in context in terms of me.
我严格隔离了。
I quarantined hard.
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
我谁都没见。
I did not see anybody.
我把自己憋坏了。
I puzzled my ass off.
我当时想，我不需要再演了。
I was like, I don't need to act anymore.
我要靠织帽子过日子了。
I'm gonna knit hats for a living.
我只有极少数朋友，因为我这种人通常只有两三个特别亲密的朋友，现在加上凯特琳。
Like, my very few friends because I'm the kind of person that has like two or three really close friends and now Caitlin.
是的。
Yeah.
我当时就想，
I was like,
我也是，现在还有你。
me too and now you.
对。
Yeah.
但刚开始的时候，哪怕只是去杂货店，我所有的互动都感觉特别尴尬。
But when I first started, even just going to the grocery store or something, all my interactions felt really awkward.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我觉得人们都用一种困惑的眼神看着我。
And I felt like people were looking at me with, like, quizzical eyes.
我将这种感觉内化了，心想：天啊，我一定是说了什么特别奇怪的话。
And I internalized that as like, god, I must have just said something really odd.
我怎么连与人交往都不会了？
Did I forget how to people?
是的。
Yeah.
完全如此。
Totally.
我在一家健康食品店工作，所以根本没法躲开人群。
I work at a health food store, and so I didn't get to, like, hide from people.
所以我不得不在公共场合露面。
So I was there out in the public.
好的。
Okay.
很好。
Good.
所以你没有这个问题。
So you didn't have that problem.
但你每天见到的人并不是你真正在乎的那些人，我的意思是，我当然把他们当人看待，但不是你的‘自己人’。
But the people you're seeing every day aren't the people that you care about that are your I mean, I care about them as humans, but, like, your people.
所以有时候你会感到完全耗尽，觉得我今天又没和我的‘自己人’建立起联系。
So sometimes you get full, like, I can't do anymore, but you're like, I didn't get connections today with, like, my people.
人。
People.
但我已经开始多做一些事情了。
But I've started to do more stuff.
很好。
Good.
比如即兴表演之类的事情。
Like improv stuff.
酷。
Cool.
所以就像只是坐在那里，更多地参与那个社群，因为真的很有意思。
So like just sitting out there and participating more in that community too, because it's really fun.
我以前经常演戏，但现在更专注于助产工作。
I used to act in lots of stuff, but I focus more on birth work now.
现在必须找一些能和这个相契合的事情。
It would have to be something that would fit in with that now.
这就是我现在看待问题的方式。
That's the way I view it now.
我只是想确认一下，因为我经常和很多来电者交谈，他们为了缓解孤独感、无聊感或冲动决策而没有扩大社交圈。
I just wanted to make sure because I do talk to a lot of callers that have not expanded in order to kinda combat that feeling of, like, loneliness or stir craziness or immediate decision making.
我经常给出的建议是：你如何以让自己开心的方式社交？
I often give advice, which is, like, how can you socialize in a way that makes you happy?
你如何在工作之外，去认识新的人，去体验与陌生人的互动？
How can you, outside of work, you know, the idea of meeting new people, the idea of new stranger interaction.
但听起来你在这一方面感觉不错。
But it sounds like you feel good on that front.
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
我的意思是，有一段时间我谁也没见，你知道的，然后经历了一段更抑郁的时期，你就不会邀请别人来家里，诸如此类的事情。
I mean, I wasn't seeing anybody for a while, you know, and then, like, having, like, more depressive time, then you like, you don't invite people over, that kind of stuff.
你现在正处于一个艰难的阶段。
And you're at a raw time right now.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
但我最近确实更多地出去活动了。
But I have been going out and doing stuff more.
很好。
Good.
我从你身上感受到很强的能量，我觉得你天生就是当妈妈的料。
I just get such good energy from you, and I feel like you're meant to be a mom.
你注定要做这件事。
You're meant to do this.
我知道约会软件和一切都很痛苦，但你有没有想过在其中一个软件上完全坦诚，直接说明你想要什么？还是说这听起来太吓人了？
And I know the dating apps and everything are so painful, but have you ever thought about just being completely honest on one of them and saying what you're looking for, or is that sound too scary?
没有。
No.
我还没这么做过。
I haven't done that yet.
我刚开始谈论这件事，觉得这是我想去做的事情。
I'm just starting to talk about it and be like, this is something that I wanna do.
但我已经和某人讨论过要这么做。
But I have been talking to somebody about doing that.
我需要拍一些新照片。
I need to get some new pictures.
是的。
Yeah.
我想鼓励你去做这件事。
I wanna encourage you to do that.
为什么不呢？
Why not?
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
凯特琳，我真的很喜欢这个建议。
Caitlin, I really sort of love this suggestion.
你可能会遇到很多讨厌的人，凯尔西。
You might get a lot of creeps, Kelsey.
对。
Yeah.
但如果你早就一直在心里酝酿这件事，那也没什么可失去的。
But there is nothing to lose if it's like this has been percolating in me for a long time.
我真的想要这种体验，你知道的。
I want this experience, you know.
对。
Yeah.
告诉我你的想法。
Let me know your thoughts.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
外面有一些人，就像你所说的，你已经遇到过一个也想要同样东西的人，可以和那个人去喝杯咖啡，聊聊这些事。
There are people out there that could, could, like you said, you already met somebody that you know wants the same thing, and like, go for coffee with that person, you know, like, have those conversations.
我的意思是，你只是谈论它，就是在向宇宙释放这个愿望，这意味着这是你生活中想要的东西，你终将吸引它到来。
I mean, you just talking about it is putting it out into the universe, and it means that that's something that you want in your life, and you're gonna attract it somehow.
但同样，我们一直在说的，就是别给自己太大压力，非要现在就发生。
But again, like same thing that we're saying is don't put so much pressure on yourself for it to happen like now.
是的。
Yeah.
从隔离中走出来，对你来说这是一个充满真实感受的时期。
Coming out of the quarantine, this is a raw time for you.
我只是希望你能对自己温柔一点。
I just want you to be so gentle with yourself.
我刚才和我一个朋友聊过这个。
That was something I was talking to one of my friends about.
就像是在处理一些疗愈的事情。
It's like working on, like, healing some stuff.
我的意思是，我也刚搬了家。
I mean, I just also moved.
我的新家甚至都还没准备好，你知道吧？
My space isn't even it's like not even ready for me really, you know?
所以，去想另一个人，你知道的？
So like thinking about another person, you know?
是的。
Yeah.
所以这就像是开始告诉人们，去思考这是我想要做的事情。
So it's just like starting to tell people to think about, like, this is something that I wanna do.
这很棒。
That's great.
所以当别人问我这件事时，我会说，是的，我愿意和别人聊聊这个。
So then when people ask me about it, I'm like, yeah, I'm, you know, open to talk to people about it.
很好。
Good.
我很高兴
I'm glad
你正处于这段旅程的开端。
that you're kind of at the beginning of this journey.
是的。
Yeah.
认识到这一点就像种下了一颗小小的种子，这很好。
It's good to recognize that this is the little seed
嗯。
Mhmm.
这颗种子正在慢慢被浇灌和施肥，嗯。
That's slowly starting to be, like, watered and fertilized Mhmm.
并且正在慢慢发芽。
And slowly starting to sprout.
是的。
Yeah.
今天不必做任何决定。
No decision has to be made today.
一个月内也不必做任何决定。
No decision has to be made in a month.
凯特琳，如果你愿意把你的生育方面的朋友的联系方式给我，我觉得她会是个很好的资源。
Caitlin, if you're willing to give me the info of your fertility friend, if you think she would be a good resource, she would.
我觉得这听起来很棒。
I think that sounds great.
是的。
Yeah.
我很乐意聊聊。
I would love to talk.
我的意思是，和他们聊聊对其他事情也有帮助，你知道的，就是谈谈这方面的事。
I mean, it would also be helpful in just other stuff too, just, you know, to talk to them about that.
因为他们可能知道一些我显然不知道的其他事情，特别是因为我才刚开始这段自我探索的旅程。
Because they might know probably would know other things that obviously I don't know, especially since I'm new on this journey with myself.
你可能需要做一些血液检查。
You might have to have some blood work done.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道的？
You know?
她帮我解决了所有事情。
She helped me with everything.
我五年前冷冻了卵子。
I froze my eggs about five years ago.
你真棒。
Good for you.
是的。
Yeah.
你看，
See,
这很聪明。
that's smart.
我很高兴我做了这件事。
I'm really happy I did that.
这可不是一段容易的旅程。
That is not an easy journey.
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