物理治疗师揭穿顶级跑步误区

Tifosi的眼镜既有适合运动的款式，也有日常佩戴的。

Tifosi offers styles for sporty pursuits as well as everyday life.

我跑步、骑车、打匹克球、开车、逛街的时候都会戴。

I wear mine running, riding, playing pickleball, driving, and walking around town.

Tifosi太阳镜能100%阻挡UVA和UVB紫外线，有效保护你的眼睛。

Tifosi sunglasses provide 100% UVA UVB protection, keeping harmful rays from your eyes.

Tifosi的镜片采用防碎聚碳酸酯材质，耐刮擦，还能减少眩光。

Tifosi's shatterproof polycarbonate lenses are scratch resistant, and they reduce glare.

很多款式还提供偏光镜片选项，我特别喜欢，因为视野更清晰，尤其是在路上和球场上。

And many styles offer options with polarized lenses, which I love for the clarity they provide, especially on the road and court.

我很高兴Tifosi每个月都会抽一位听众，免费送一副他们家的太阳镜。

I'm excited that Tifosi is giving away a pair of their awesome sunnies to one lucky listener every month.

点击节目说明里的链接就能参与。

Click on the link in the show notes to enter.

何必等运气呢？

Or why wait to see if you win?

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Buy new sunglasses this summer and get 20% off Tifosi sunglasses with code FEISTY twenty twenty six at tifosi optics dot com.

再次提醒，使用代码 FEISTYtwentytwentysix 在 tifosioptics.com 购买 Tifosi 太阳镜立减两成。

Again, get 20% off Tifosi sunglasses using code FEISTY twenty twenty six at tifosioptics.com.

记住这个代码：FEISTY，拼写是 f-e-i-s-t-y 加上 twenty twenty six，网址是 tifosioptics.com。

That code FEISTY, remember, it's f e I s t y twenty twenty six at tifosioptics.com.

好的。

Okay.

下一个话题是‘冰敷能治百病’，能跟我们说说为什么冰敷并不总是最佳选择吗？

The next one is ice fixes everything, which so tell us why ice shouldn't necessarily be our go to.

我觉得现在越来越多的人已经开始对这个做法产生怀疑了。

I I do feel like people are starting to move away from this a little bit.

以前那种‘冰敷、加压、抬高’的处理方式，大家现在慢慢意识到，它并不总是最有效的，尤其是对脚踝扭伤来说。

That whole ice compression elevation, that ice method, people are realizing that it's not always the best fix, especially with ankle sprains now.

冰敷当然能帮助缓解不适。

So ice can definitely calm something down.

如果肌腱发炎了，或者膝盖肿了，那确实可以敷点冰。

If you have a tendon that's mad, if your knee is swollen, sure, throw some ice.

只要不是对低温过敏，冰敷一般不会对你造成伤害，但它解决不了根本问题。

You're not gonna hurt yourself by putting ice on it unless you have a sensitivity to something that cold, but it's not gonna fix it.

冰敷不会，再说一遍，在膝盖疼痛这种复杂情况下，冰可能暂时让你感觉好一点，但它根本治不好疼痛的根源。

Ice will not, again, using that kind of complex case of why someone has knee pain, ice may temporarily make it feel better, but ice isn't going to fix why the knee pain is occurring.

可以用，但别把它当成解决问题的办法。

So use it, but don't look at it as a solution to the problem.

好的，丹妮丝。

All right, Denise.

是这个吗？

Is this one?

这个说法是误区还是真相？

Is this one a myth or is this a truth?

绝对不能带着疼痛跑步。

You should never run through pain.

这两种情况都有可能。

This can be both.

如果你正在经历那种情况，嗯，这确实是理疗师最爱的回答。

If you are having, yeah, it's a PT's favorite answer.

这要看情况。

It depends.

我们总是这么说。

That's what we always say.

哦，这得视情况而定。

Oh, it depends.

如果你在跑的时候遇到剧烈疼痛，或者出现刺麻感、麻木，或者疼得想停下，那就千万别硬撑，否则可能会让情况更糟。

So if you are running through some kind of pain that is severe, or it's causing tingling or numbness, or it's making you want to stop, do not run through that pain because you could make something worse.

但如果你只是有点酸痛，我觉得有些人对疼痛的理解很混乱，关系也很复杂。

But if you have some type of soreness, I think some people have a confusing, they have a complicated relationship with pain.

他们可能只是感觉有点酸胀。

They might have some soreness.

也许他们前一天举过重，现在跑步时大腿肌肉酸痛，就以为该停下来了。

Maybe they lifted the day before and they're running and their quads are sore and they think, oh, wait, I should stop.

我大腿肌肉酸痛。

My quads are sore.

这和那种让你想停下来的疼痛可不是一回事。

That's not the same thing as pain, pain that makes you wanna stop.

这是延迟性肌肉酸痛，肌肉其实需要活动，继续跑反而会感觉更好。

That is delayed onset muscle soreness and your muscle actually wants to move and will feel better if you keep running.

对我来说，关键在于它是不是让你想停下，或者是不是越来越严重。

So the key factor for me is if it makes you wanna stop because or it's getting worse.

那你就 definitely 得停下来。

You should definitely stop then.

疼痛常常骗人。

And pain's a liar.

所以膝盖疼，并不意味着问题就出在膝盖上。

So just because I have pain in my knee doesn't mean that's where my problem is.

但如果膝盖疼得每走一步都加重，或者胫骨疼痛越来越厉害，那就得注意了。

But if that knee pain is worsening with each step or the shin splint, it's getting worse and worse.

而且这种疼痛连下楼梯时都挥之不去，甚至两天后还能感觉到。

And now the pain is lingering with things like going down the stairs, or I feel it even two days later.

这些才是身体发出的明确信号，说明系统出了问题，关键是要学会分辨酸痛和严重疼痛的区别。

Those are key indicators that there's something wrong in the system, but you just have to learn to distinguish the difference between what is soreness and what is severe pain.

是啊，那种持续不退的疼痛，还有整天走路别扭的步态，我年纪越大越常见。

Yeah, it's lingering pain and mobility, the kind of hinky stride for the rest of the day.

随着年龄增长，这类问题我遇到得越来越多。

That type of stuff is what I find more common as I age.

接下来这句话，是我参加高中同学会、刚跑完大苏尔马拉松后，听到最多的一句——那时候我正得意洋洋地到处炫耀呢。

So so this next line was one I heard repeatedly when I attended a high school reunion shortly after running the Big Sur marathon, which I was, you know, walking around proudly boasting about.

结果每个同学都跟我说：跑步会毁了膝盖。

And every single one of my former classmates just replied, oh, running ruins your knees.

我说，拜托，各位。

I'm like, come on, people.

你们也得给我点支持啊。

Like, give me some love here.

我刚跑完大苏尔马拉松。

I just did big sur.

Denise，你得站我这边。

And so so stand by me on this one, Denise.

他们说错了。

They were wrong.

对吧？

Right?

他们说错了。

They were wrong.

研究已经表明了，如果你需要，我可以找些资料给你看，跑步本身并不会对膝盖或髋关节造成损伤。

Research has shown, and I can get you some studies if you wanna see that it does not running itself does not cause ruin like, a a damage to your knees and hips.

但要是跑法不对，那就另说了。

Running the wrong way can.

所以，如果你给关节施加了太大的压力，软骨确实可能会开始退化。

So if you are putting too much stress on your joints, yes, your cartilage can start breaking down.

骨骼也可能开始承受冲击。

Your bones can start taking some impact.

你知道的，胫骨应力综合征发展成应力性骨折，就是一个典型的例子，说明错误的跑姿会毁掉原本很好的骨头。

You know, shin splints that turn into stress fractures are a classic example of you can ruin a very good bone with poor technique.

但只要你小心谨慎，做好力量训练、灵活性练习和恢复工作，照顾好身体，你完全可以跑到八九十岁。

But if you are careful, if you're doing your strength training, if you are doing your mobility work and your recovery work and taking care of your body, you can run well into your 80s, 90s.

百岁老人还在跑步呢。

There's 100 year olds that are still running.

我也经常听到这种说法，Sarah。

I hear that one all the time too, Sarah.

尤其是每年到了这个时候，大家总会问：你的膝盖还好吗？

And especially, you know, with each passing year, oh, how are your knees?

腰背怎么样？

How is your back?

你的髋关节怎么样？

How are your hips?

我说，还好吧。

I'm like, they're fine.

是啊，挺好的。

They're fine.

非常感谢。

Thank you very much.

不过别问我脚的事。

Don't ask me about my feet, though.

明白。

Okay.

说到脚，跑者常常指望装备来解决问题。

Speaking of feet, runners often turn to gear for answers.

你知道的，我就需要换双新鞋。

And, you know, like, I just need new shoes.

我需要定制鞋垫。

I need orthotics.

我们经常听到一些说法，比如鞋子穿了多少英里或者几个月就该换了。

And we we hear, like, you hear these adages about you should replace your shoes, you know, x number of miles or x number of months.

所以，能不能帮我们澄清一下关于跑鞋和鞋垫的那些事儿？

Like, what what is like, set the record straight on on shoes and orthotics for us, please.

嗯，鞋业公司可是很聪明的。

Well, shoe companies are geniuses.

我就说这些了。

That's all I'm gonna say.

他们的营销手段确实高明。

They have got their marketing down.

他们让我们都相信，每双鞋能跑的距离是有限的。

They've convinced all of us that we have limited miles that we can run on.

鞋子毕竟只是装备而已。

And shoes are a piece of equipment.

鞋子并不能纠正你的跑姿。

Shoes will not fix your technique.

它们可能会让你更意识到自己的动作，尤其是穿鞋底较薄的鞋子时；但也可能掩盖问题，比如穿太厚的缓震鞋时。

They may make you more aware of what you're doing, especially if you're running in something with less cushioning, or they may hide something if you're running in something with a lot of cushioning.

你要是穿那种厚得像踩在一袋软糖上的鞋子，根本感觉不到任何冲击，但这不代表你的身体就没问题。

You know, you run on a bag of gummy bears with some of these really thick cushiony shoes and you were not gonna feel anything, but it doesn't mean that there's still not a problem.

所以鞋厂现在特别擅长做设计，让你觉得自己跑得特别好。

So the shoe companies have gotten very good at of building things up to make us think we're doing really well.

结果一疼起来，他们就说：哦，你该换新鞋了。

So, and then when all of a sudden things start hurting, they're like, oh, you just need new ones.

于是你又花两百块买双新鞋，或者现在又搞出碳板、 rocker底，说这样你就能跑得更快了。

And you spend another $200 on a pair of shoes, or now here, let's put some carbon plates in the bottom, or let's create a rocker bottom and now you'll suddenly be faster.

他们确实把营销玩得炉火纯青。

So they've gotten very good at marketing.

那鞋子到底会坏吗？

So do shoes break down?

是的。

Yes.

就像其他任何装备一样。

Just like any other piece of equipment.

通常是鞋子里的泡沫先开始磨损。

It's usually the foam on the inside that starts to wear away.

如果你穿的是那种用来控制足外翻的鞋的话。

Depending on if you wear a shoe that's maybe a shoe to stop supination.

不同部位的鞋垫会用不同密度的泡沫材料，用来限制脚部的旋转和移动。

They have different types of foam on different pairs of different parts of the shoe, maybe different densities to prevent rotation and movement.

所以有些类型的泡沫会比其他类型更快地老化。

And so some of those foam that some of the types of foam may break down faster than others.

如果你发现鞋面、鞋内侧或鞋底出现明显磨损，那就说明鞋子已经开始损坏了。

If you start noticing an actual wearing away of the fabric or on the inside or the outside of the bottom of the shoe, you're actually seeing damage develop.

是的，你大概该换新鞋了，毕竟不该再穿着快散架的鞋子跑步。

Yes, you probably need to get new shoes because you don't wanna be running on something that is breaking down.

但如果你一直发现鞋子的磨损模式相同，而且磨损速度比你预期的要快，花一百五到二百美元买双鞋不值当，那你可能得调整一下跑步姿势，减少过度磨损。

But if you keep noticing you have the same wear pattern on your shoes and it happens faster than you think for investing $150 to $200 on a pair of shoes, you might wanna work on your technique to prevent that excessive wear and tear.

矫形鞋垫也有它的作用。

And orthotics have their place too.

有时候我们确实需要一点支撑，但足科医生会说，你得整天都穿着矫形鞋垫——我挺喜欢足科医生的。

Sometimes we need a little bit of support, but the podiatrist will tell you, you should be, like, living in your orthotics, which I love podiatrists.

我不是在贬低他们。

I'm not bashing them.

这只是他们的理念而已。

It's just their philosophy.

但我的观点是，身体其他部位我们从不会一直用支具固定着。

Whereas my philosophy is there's no other body part that we brace all the time.

那为什么我们要每天每时每刻都戴着矫形鞋垫，却不让双脚自由活动、自然强化，像其他身体部位那样正常运作呢？

So why are we wearing orthotics every part of every day and never allowing our feet to actually move and strengthen and do all the things that we would have any other body part do that isn't a brace?

挺有意思的。

Interesting.

我很喜欢你现在提到的，一些大型理疗机构正在专门针对跑者和跑鞋做营销。

I love how now you've pointed out that some big physical therapy places are trying to market to runners in a specific way and the running shoes.

突然间感觉，他们好像都在打我们的主意。

Suddenly it's like, Oh, they're all out to get us.

他们并不是针对我们。

They're not out to get us.

他们是想帮忙，但我认为这确实是个赚钱的生意。

They are trying to be helpful, but I think that it is a moneymaker.

对。

Mhmm.

对。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

这不就是资本主义的典型表现吗。

That's that's, you know, capitalism right there.

明白了。

Okay.

我希望这个误解快点消失，因为大家越来越意识到力量训练的重要性了。

So I hope this fallacy is on the wane since people are are wising up to the importance of strength training.

那面对有人说力量训练会让跑者变慢，或者会让人长肌肉，你怎么回应呢？

But what do you say in the face of the assertion strength training makes runners slow or strength training will make me bulk up?

如果你是故意要练健美，比如饮食只吃高蛋白，每周练六天重训，还做降组训练，那也许真会增肌。

If you are purposely trying to do bodybuilding, so you are changing your diet to be only high protein, you are lifting heavy six days a week, you're doing drop sets, you're doing all these things to actually, like, build muscle, maybe.

但我们大多数跑者只是做自重训练，或者偶尔练练重训，一周也就一两天而已。

But most of us runners want to just do body weight or we are willing to lift heavy, but we're only lifting heavy one or two days a week.

你不可能会变得肌肉发达。

You're not going to bulk up.

你可能会更紧致，但力量训练真正的目的，其实是给身体穿上一层保护甲。

You might tone up, but really strength training is designed to be body armor.

如果你想预防受伤，提升表现，力量训练就是你的答案。

So you wanna protect yourself from an injury, you wanna perform better, strength training is the answer for you.

我觉得跑者对力量训练有很多误解，尤其是那些好心但观念过时的越野跑教练。

So I just think that runners have misconceptions, especially some very well meaning cross country coaches out there.

他们总说：‘我得先给跑者打好基础。’

They say things like, well, I gotta build the base for my runners.

你不能让一个骨骼还没发育成熟的14岁孩子，突然每周跑这么多里程，还不指望他出问题——毕竟他太弱了。

You can't build a base on a skeletally immature 14 year old who's never run this many miles in a week before and not expect some breakdown to happen because they're so weak.

力量训练其实能帮他们跑得更好。

So strength training can actually make them better runners.

它能让你跑得更快，因为你的身体有了支撑。

It can make them faster because now they have support behind movement.

有了支撑，你才能对抗身体在运动中承受的自然外力。

They have support to fight the natural forces that are working on our bodies.

当脚落地时，地面反作用力那么大，如果你不够强壮，根本扛不住，肌腱、骨骼就会出问题——应力性骨折、应力性反应、肌腱炎，都是这么来的，因为关节、肌肉、韧带、肌腱全都还没练到能承受这种反复冲击的程度。

That ground reaction force, when your foot hits the ground, you better be strong enough to tolerate that, or you're gonna start having breakdowns in the tendons or in the bones, and that's where stress fractures happen or stress reactions or tendonitis starts to develop because the joints, the muscles, the ligaments, the tendons, all of it just aren't strong enough to tolerate that repetitive force.

这一点对55岁的女性来说，和对14岁的高中越野跑者同样适用。

And true for 55 year old women as it is for 14 year old high school cross country people.

对55岁的女性来说可能更关键，毕竟14岁的时候身体恢复力强得多。

Probably more for the 55 year old woman than for the high school runner because they you know, when you're 14, you have resiliency.

但到了55岁，如果已经绝经，骨密度下降，雌激素不足，骨骼强度不够，就很容易发生严重的长期性骨折，恢复时间也比14岁时长得多。

But at 55, if you are postmenopausal and now you don't have enough bone density, that lack of estrogen, that lack of bone strength can actually cause very severe long term fractures that take longer to heal than it would when you're 14.

所以，丹妮丝，你在这次对话中多次提到姿势和正确的跑姿，这让我想到有些人常说的一句话——‘把步子迈大点’、‘放开跑’。

So Denise, you have referred a few times in this conversation to form and proper form, and it makes me wonder about a phrase that some people will sometimes say about taking long strides, stride it out, take long strides.

这话到底对不对呢？

What's up with that?

这其实还是源于一些好心但不懂技术的教练。

Well, that comes from, again, some very well meaning coaches not understanding technique.

没错，人腿长就该充分利用，但步子迈太大反而会造成过度跨步，而过度跨步会带来过大的冲击力。

So, yes, people have long legs and they should use them, but taking a long stride causes overstriding, and overstriding causes excessive impact.

所以关于该用脚跟着地、脚掌中部着地还是前脚掌着地，学术界一直有争论。

So there's always debate in the literature about whether you should heel strike or midfoot to strike or forefoot strike.

所以我们通常不纠结这一点，但研究确实一致表明，跨步过大是不好的。

So we tend to not argue that point, but the research does agree across the board that overstriding is bad.

所谓跨步过大，就是你的脚落地时离身体重心太远了，而且后脚花太长时间才能踩到身体下方。

And overstriding means your foot is landing too far ahead of your body weight, and the back foot is taking too long to get underneath you.

所以那种‘迈大步’、‘拉长步幅’的说法，其实来自教练想提示运动员在单位时间内尽可能多覆盖距离。

So the idea of striding it out, taking these long strides comes from coaches who are trying to cue their athletes to cover as much ground as possible in a short amount of time.

但这并不是正确的提示方式。

And it's it's not the right cue.

正确的提示应该是把髋部送出去，想象一下迈克尔·杰克逊那种姿态，让髋部向前顶。

The cue should be get your hips forward, get your inner Michael Jackson, to get your hips forward.

利用重力来帮你前进。

Use gravity to help you.

这实际上会让你比刻意迈大步更快。因为迈大步时，你会用锁死的膝盖、髋关节和脚踝去着地，这反而是在给自己踩刹车。

That will actually make you faster than striding it out where now you're landing on a locked knee and a locked hip and a locked ankle, and now you're actually putting the brakes on.

明白了。

Alright.

我觉得这一集的副标题应该是：迈克尔·杰克逊能教给跑者的那些事。

I think the subtitle for this episode is what Michael Jackson could teach runners.

明白了。

Alright.

好的。

Okay.

2009年我给蒂什你写《跑者世界》专题的时候，确实有个教练特别信奉这个观点——跑得越多，才能跑得更好。

So I definitely had a coach in 2009 when I was writing a Runner's World feature for you, Tish, who subscribed to this belief, you need to run more to be a good runner.

她的训练方式差点把我搞垮了。

And her approach nearly broke me.

说实话，我确实在那个训练周期里创下了马拉松个人最好成绩，但那个周期对我来说简直太疯狂了。

Granted, I did set my marathon PR on that training cycle, but it was really a a big fat training cycle for me.

那么，丹妮丝，你怎么看‘跑得越多，才能跑得更好’这种说法？

So so what do you say, Denise, about you need to run more to be a good runner?

脚底接触地面的时间确实很重要。

Time on feet is a real thing.

你知道吗，跑马拉松的时候，我能理解为什么很多人想试试能不能跑完这段距离，因为很大程度上靠的是意志力。

You know, learning how if you're running a marathon, I can see why people wanna see if they can even run that distance because a lot of it's just mental.

所以我明白增加跑量确实能提升信心。

So I understand the benefit of mileage and building up mileage to build confidence.

但真正让人变强的，其实不是跑量本身。

But the thing that actually makes people a better runner isn't the actual mileage.

你的身体根本分不清跑20英里和26英里有什么区别。

Your body won't know the difference between running 20 miles and 26 miles.

你的身体能感觉到的是，你够不够强？

What your body will know the difference of is are you weak enough?

你是不是弱到连站上四五个六个小时都撑不住？

Are you so weak that you can't even tolerate being on your feet that long for four, five, six hours?

所以我更希望跑者想的是：要想成为优秀的跑者，我得足够强壮，足够灵活，得保证补水，还得保证睡眠。

So I would rather runners think, If I need to be a good runner, I need to be strong enough, I need to be mobile enough, I need to make sure I'm hydrated, I need to make sure I am sleeping.

睡眠才是最关键的。

Sleeping is the big one.

真正让你成为优秀跑者的是那些跟跑步本身无关的事。

That's what makes you a good runner is all the everything but running is what makes you a good runner.

我常拿汤姆·布雷迪当例子。

I use, like, Tom Brady as an example.

汤姆·布雷迪可不是整天就练扔球。

Tom Brady is not doesn't just throw the football all day long.

他之所以是顶级四分卫，不是因为光会扔球。

So he's a great quarterback not because he's just throwing a football.

他做了一切该做的事，这才是他厉害的原因。

He does everything else he has to do, and that's what makes him a great quarterback.

不是因为他每天几个小时不停地扔球。

Not just that he throws a ball every day for hours and hours and hours.

你刚才提到的那些事，比如补水、好好睡觉，如果非得挑一个最根本的原因，你觉得跑者为什么来找你做物理治疗？

So and of the things that you listed off, you know, the being hydrated, the, you know, the good sleep, do you think if you had to pinpoint one thing that ultimately is the reason people come to see you, why runners come to see you, need help from a PT.

你觉得这其中最关键的问题是什么？

Do you think there is one thing that we could, you know, the biggest culprit?

我能要两个吗？

Can I have two?

当然可以，给你两个。

Yes, you can have two.

对。

Yes.

好的。

All right.

我

I

我会说是力量和技巧。

would say strength and technique.

再详细说说这一点。

Talk a little bit more about that.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得他们太弱了。

I think they're too weak.

他们根本不清楚正确的动作应该是什么样子。

They don't have enough awareness of what movement should look like.

如果你足够强壮，能长时间保持这些姿势，承受跑步时作用在身上的各种力量，同时又懂得如何更高效地移动，这才是预防受伤的关键——通过力量训练为身体提供足够支撑，再通过专注技术训练，降低受伤风险，提升表现。

And so if you are strong enough to be able to tolerate these positions for a long time, tolerate the forces that are acting on us when we run, and you understand how to move more efficiently, that's where I think the power is in preventing injuries is giving your body enough support through strength training, but then also reducing their risk of an injury or improving performance by really focusing on the technique side of it.

好的。

All right.

该休息一下了。

It's time for another short break.

回来后我们来个快速问答环节。

We'll do a bit of a lightning round when we return.

如果你也想体验一把夏令营的感觉，但又不想睡上下铺、用露天厕所，那就来参加FEISTYFEST吧，这个活动将在夏末的宾夕法尼亚州利哈伊谷举行。

If you're craving a summer camp experience of your own, minus bunk beds and outhouses, join us at FEISTYFEST, happening in the final days of summer in lovely Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania.

这是一场为期三天、专为女性打造的活动，完全围绕运动、学习和社群展开。

This three day festival is crafted specifically for women and dedicated entirely to movement, learning, and community.

Feisty Fest 提供了丰富多彩的运动选择：越野跑、砾石骑行、游泳训练、匹克球教学、场地自行车、力量训练，还有适合各个水平的瑜伽课程。

Feisty Fest serves up active options galore, trail runs, gravel rides, swim clinics, pickleball instruction, track cycling, lifting sessions, yoga for all levels of participants.

还有由充满热情且博学的专家主持的圆桌讨论，以及几乎每期 Feisty 播客的现场录制。

There are also panel discussions with lively, knowledgeable experts, numerous recording sessions of almost every Feisty podcast.

我们网站上提供了详细的活动日程安排。

We have a detailed schedule of events and activities on our site.

我特别期待的两场学习环节：一是和安妮卡·韦德聊聊受伤后的韧性与自我认同，她本身也是一位适应性山地车手；另一场是关于如何用心率训练的课程，我敢肯定莉兹教练会参与。

Two learning sessions I'm especially looking forward to, resilience and identity after injury with Annika Wade, who is, among other things, an adaptive mountain biker and how to train with heart rate session that I'm fairly certain coach Liz will be a part of.

当然，也安排了充足的放松时间，让你能和其他女性深入交流。

And there's also much needed downtime to decompress and connect with other women.

和夏令营一样，你可以独自前来，也可以和朋友结伴参加。

As with summer camp, you can attend solo or with friends.

和所有线下活动一样，这场活动也有另一位妈妈跑者的心血投入。

And like all IRL events, another mother runner has a hand in.

你会带着更快乐的心情、更健康的身体，以及一手机的新朋友回家。

You'll head home happier, healthier, and with a phone full of new friends.

现在就开始编友谊手链吧？

Maybe start weaving friendship bracelets now?

想了解更多关于Feisty Fest的信息，请访问feisty.co。

Learn more about Feisty Fest by going to feisty.co.

就是feisty.co。

That's feisty.co.

再提醒一下，Feisty Fest。

Again, Feisty Fest.

去feisty.co看看吧。

Go to feisty.co.

感谢Currex长期以来对我们所有运动项目的支持。

Thanks to Currex for its longtime support in all our athletic pursuits.

在currex.com下单可享全场15%折扣，使用优惠码AMR 15即可。

For 15% off your entire Currex order, visit currex.com and use code AMR 15.

Currex鞋垫融合了最新的医学与生物力学研究成果，专为提供无与伦比的舒适感、运动表现和预防损伤而设计。

Utilizing the latest medical and biomechanics research, Currex insoles are engineered for unequaled comfort, performance, and injury prevention.

不管你做什么运动——跑步、徒步、骑车、高尔夫还是球类运动，都要为自己创造最佳条件。

Whatever activity you do, running, hiking, cycling, golf, or court sports, you want to set yourself up for success.

从脚底开始改变，把运动鞋原配的鞋垫换成Currex鞋垫。

Start from the ground up by replacing the insoles your athletic shoes come with for a pair of Currex insoles.

Currex鞋垫采用专利动态足弓技术，搭配双层缓震设计，能有效支撑足部，顺应自然步态，帮助膝盖和髋关节保持正确对齐。

With its patented Dynamic Arch technology and a dual layer of cushioning, Currex insoles properly support the foot and its natural movement for ideal knee and hip alignment.

更换鞋垫非常快捷简单。

Swapping insoles is quick and easy.

我穿的是大号，正好适合我的11码运动鞋；如果鞋稍微大一点，Currex鞋垫还很容易修剪调整。

The size I wear, large, fits perfectly in my size eleven athletic shoes, and Currex insoles are easy to trim to fit your size if it's a little big for your shoes.

我用的是高足弓款，另外还有中等和低足弓款可选。

I wear the high arch version, and they're also available in medium and low arch.

Currex提供市面上最全的运动专用鞋垫系列，涵盖跑步、骑行、徒步、步行、足球、球类运动，还有全天站立工作的职场人士专用款。

Currex offers the largest line of sport activity specific insoles, including ones for running, cycling, hiking, walking, soccer, court sports, plus ones for folks who are on their feet all day in the workplace.

亲身体验Currex的差别，今天就放心试用吧。

Feel the Currex difference and try Currex risk free today.

公司提供六十天保修，即使您已经剪裁过以适应鞋子也一样有效。

The company offers a sixty day warranty even if the product has been cut to fit your shoes.

访问 currex.com，使用优惠码 AMR 15，全单享八五折。

Visit currex.com and use code AMR 15 for 15% off your entire order.

就是 currex.com，记得用 AMR 15 这个码，立减百分之十五。

That's currex.com with code AMR 15 for 15% off.

currex.com，别忘了输入 AMR 15。

Currex.com, that code AMR 15.

好的，

Alright,

丹妮丝。

Denise.

准备好了吗？来个快问快答。

You ready for a lightning round?

我们这儿有几个快速问题。

We got a few quick ones here.

当然。

Sure.

作为理疗师，你怎么看？

Your take as a physical therapist.

好的。

Alright.

准备好了吗？

Ready?

我们开始吧。

Here we go.

最好的恢复工具是哪个？泡沫轴、按摩枪，还是网球？你选一个。

Best recovery tool, foam roller, massage gun, lacrosse ball, your choice.

我

I

如果让我选，我会加上专业按摩治疗。

going to do them I'd like to add massage therapy in there.

我会首选按摩治疗。

Massage therapy would be my number one.

找一位很棒的按摩治疗师，每四五周去一次。

A really good massage therapist that you see every four to six weeks.

不用每周都去，但每四五周一次就够了。至于中间怎么保养，我的偏好顺序是：先用网球，再用泡沫轴，最后是按摩枪。

You don't need to see them every week, but every four to six weeks and in between using, here's my order of preference, a lacrosse ball, then a foam roller, then a massage gun.

网球能精准针对痛点，提供更深入的揉捏感，就是那种揉面团一样的感觉，K-N-E-A-D，揉面。

Lacrosse balls can get very targeted where you need it to be and can provide more of that kneading massage, so K N E A D, like you're kneading dough.

泡沫轴更多是针对筋膜，网球能深入肌肉，而泡沫轴主要作用在筋膜层。

Foam rolling is a little more So fascial the lacrosse ball gets deeper into the muscle whereas the foam roller gets, the fascia.

这两种都很重要。

Both are important.

按摩枪适合喜欢敲击式按摩的人，比如在臀部或腿后肌群这种肌肉厚实的地方，用起来挺舒服，但在脚踝底下或胫骨那儿，就未必舒服了。

Massage guns, if you like that type of percussion massage where it's like hammering away, sometimes that can feel good in meaty areas like your glutes or your hamstrings, but it doesn't always feel so good on like the bottom of your ankle or your shin.

这终究是个人喜好，但如果让我选，我每次都选专业按摩师，因为你需要的是懂行的人，能顺着身体的走向来处理。

So it is personal preference, but if I had to choose, it would be a massage therapist every time because you want that skilled person who can follow the train.

身体里有筋膜链。

There's fascial trains.

你可能脚底筋膜有紧张，但真正的原因可能在膝盖后方、腘绳肌，甚至臀部。

You know, you may have some tightness in your plantar fasciitis, but the the cause of it might be up behind your knee or into your hamstring or even your glutes.

好的按摩师能顺着这条筋膜链找到根源，帮你解决根本问题，而不只是缓解症状。

So a good massage therapist can follow that train and help you address the problem and not just the symptom.

至于那个保龄球，有些人可能不太了解，它其实非常硬。

And for that lacrosse ball, for folks who don't know, they are quite firm.

是实心的球体。

Are a solid ball.

跟网球完全不是一回事。

They are not a tennis ball by any means.

我们说的通常是把它放在身体下面，压在地板上，这样才能深入作用。

And so we are largely talking about like, it being beneath your body and the floor, right, so that it's really getting in there.

没错。

Is that Yep.

你平时怎么用这个网球呢？

How you recommend using a lacrosse ball?

有些人会先把瑜伽砖放在地上，再把网球放在瑜伽砖上面，这样就能把网球抬高一点，比如用来按小腿。

So some people will put a yoga block on the floor and then put the lacrosse ball on top of the yoga block to bring that lacrosse ball up towards their, like, calf, let's say.

这样稍微调整一下高度，更容易找准位置。

So just a little bit it helps with positioning.

这球确实很硬。

It is a hard ball.

你说得对。

You're right.

网球也可以用，但网球更便宜。

Tennis balls are fine too, but lacrosse balls are they're cheap.

很多打垒球的人用完球后，球表面没黏性了就不想要了，但跑步的人特别喜欢这种球。

A lot of lacrosse players don't want the balls once they've lost their kind of stickiness, but runners love that.

所以你可以去Play It Again Sports这类店低价买到，或者问问你身边玩垒球的人，直接说：嘿，有不要的球吗？

And so you can buy them really cheap at places like Play It Against Sports or find a lacrosse player in your life and be like, hey.

我能把你们所有那些——他们叫什么来着，闪亮球？都给我吗？

Can I have all your I think they call them shiners?

你们不要的旧式长曲棍球球，能全给我吗？

Can I have all your used lacrosse balls you don't want anymore?

所以这东西特别便宜。

So they're cheap.

这个建议以前在这档播客里还真没听过，谢谢分享。

That is a tip that has never been shared before on this podcast, so thank you.

明白了。

Okay.

我们之前聊过冰敷，那冰浴呢？

So we we talked about ice earlier, but what about ice baths?

大概十五年前我特别信这个，但现在感觉大家的看法变了。

So I used to swear by them maybe fifteen years ago, but I feel that the thinking has changed on that.

我这么想对吗？

Am I right in that regard?

我觉得，对于急性损伤来说，还是可以冰敷的。

I think, again, with a an acute injury.

比如你扭了脚踝，不管是穿高跟鞋还是跳舞时扭到的。

So you sprain your ankle, you twist your ankle in high heels or out dancing.

这种情况可以试试冰敷。

Go ahead and ice back that.

但如果能忍受的话，确实会有帮助。

But it it can be helpful if you can tolerate it.

但我自己受不了，那种冰水浴我根本没法做。

I cannot tolerate I can't do this bun the plunge baths.

那种事情我全都不行。

I can't do any of that stuff.

对我来说，实在太冷了。

I just it's so cold for me.

太不舒服了。

It's uncomfortable.

所以我觉得，对我而言，这反而让情况更糟。

So I think it actually makes things worse for me.

有些研究提到，对于绝经后的女性，冷水浴并没有太大帮助。

And there is some research that's talking about those cold plunges for postmenopausal women not being very helpful.

这方面的研究还在进行中，你怎么看都行。

The research is still coming out on that, so do what you want with that.

但我认为，冰浴本身也不会有害。

But I don't think, again, an ice bath would hurt.

我觉得跑完步后冰敷也没什么不好。

I don't think icing after you run is a bad thing.

如果你觉得舒服，那当然可以。

If it makes you feel good, sure.

但它真能解决你的问题吗？

But is it gonna fix your problem?

不能。

No.

我完全支持那些研究，说绝经后的女性没必要泡冰浴。

I I am all on board with the research that says postmenopausal women don't have to do the ice baths.

我从来就不喜欢泡冰浴，莎拉。

I've never been into the ice bath, Sarah.

不过呢，要是我家后院真有一条冷溪流过，我倒可能愿意进去泡一泡。

Although, you know, if if I had a cold creek running through my backyard, I could see getting in that.

但我绝对不会主动把自己放进冰浴里。

But I'm not putting myself in an ice bath.

绝对不干。

No way.

哦，我可太喜欢了。

Oh, I just love it.

我特别喜欢，真的，泡完感觉整个人都活过来了。

I love oh, it makes me feel so alive.

我简直爱死了。

I just adore it.

是的

Yeah.

对

Yeah.

没错

Yeah.

你按自己的方式来就行

You do you.

不会伤着你的

Not gonna hurt you.

好

Alright.

好的

Alright.

下一个话题

Next topic.

跑步机。

Treadmills.

跑步机，是朋友还是对手？

Treadmills, friend or foe?

两者都是。

Both.

我住在伊利诺伊州。

So I live in Illinois.

从十二月到三月，我没法在外面跑步。

So from about December to March, I cannot run outside.

气温低于零下八度的时候，我不喜欢跑步。

I don't like running when it's below 17 degrees.

所以在那些日子里，跑步机就是我的朋友。

So the treadmill is my friend on those days.

冬天我经常在跑步机上花时间练习技巧，因为这样能避开很多不确定的因素。

And I spend a lot of time in the winter working on my technique on the treadmill because it takes out a lot of the unknowns that happen.

但如果你只在跑步机上跑步，你就学不会在户外跑步时如何运用自身体重的技巧。

But if you are only running on the treadmill, you aren't learning the skill of how to use your body weight that happens when you run on the ground.

比如我丈夫每周有五天都在出差。

So if you're a travel like, my husband travels five days out of the week.

他用跑步机是因为他所在的一些地方并不安全。

He is using treadmills because sometimes the areas he in he's in aren't very safe.

所以偶尔用一下没问题。

So it's fine.

但别光靠跑步机就觉得自己是个优秀的跑者。

But don't only rely on the treadmill to make you believe you're a good runner.

多到户外去跑。

Get outside.

学会如何上下坡，如何利用人行道和步道来提升训练效果。

Learn how to actually navigate up and down hills, how to use sidewalks and trails to help with your training.

走出去，亲近大自然。

Get out and get out in nature.

就多到外面去走走。

Just get outside.

我觉得要是大家多在户外待着，都会更开心。

I think everyone would be happier if we were outside

多一点。

more.

对。

Mhmm.

没错。

Mhmm.

我以前在《跑者世界》工作的时候，那儿有一堆关于跑步机上该怎么跑的规矩，比如怎么才算标准姿势，我都记不清了，但好像说为了模拟户外跑步的效果，得把坡度调高2%或者加快速度。

When I worked at Runner's World, we had all these rules about, you know, the proper way to run on a treadmill and to I can't even remember them, but I feel like, you know, you're supposed to raise it 2% or increase your speed in order to mimic the running outside effect.

这些说法有道理吗？

Is there any truth to any of those?

说到底，在跑步机上跑，你只是在原地跑。

And the fact remains, when you're on a treadmill, you're running in place.

你只是在跟上跑带的速度。

You are keeping up with the belt.

你没有学会利用重力，也没有让身体重心前移，因为你根本就是在原地跑步。

You are not learning how to use gravity to your advantage or getting your body weight forward because you're just really running in place.

所以，把坡度调到百分之三到五之间，确实能让你更像在外面跑时保持身体前倾，但本质上完全不一样。

So, yes, elevating it to somewhere between three to 5% does mimic having to keep your body weight forward, but it's not the same thing at all.

当有人说‘我在跑步机上跑步方式不一样’，其实不该这样。

And, when people say, well, I run differently when I'm on a treadmill, you shouldn't.

跑步就是跑步。

Running is running.

你在外面跑的时候，是真正在追着前面的路跑，而不是像在跑步机上那样追着一条永远跑不完的带子。

You should be running the exact same way, but you're not chasing a rabbit, as I call it, on a treadmill when you're outside on the ground.

还有十七度。

And 17 degrees.

二十度没问题，十五度呢？

20 is fine, but 15?

对。

Right.

17度这个数字太具体了。

17 is very specific.

我们就喜欢这样。

We like that.

我记得那天。

I remember

我恍然大悟的那天。

the day I figured it out.

我当时就想，这太糟糕了，结果坡度就是17度。

I was like, this is terrible, and it was 17 degrees.

第二天我就试了。

And I tried it the next day,

结果那天是20度。

and it was 20.

所以我来回在17度和20度之间调整，最后定在了17度。

And so then I kinda went back and forth between seventeen and twenty and landed on 17.

这就像是，

That's like,

你跟跑步搭档说，好吧。

you know, when you tell your running partner, okay.

我五点三十二到你家。

I'll be at your house at 05:32.

是的。

Yeah.

不是五点三十，也不是五点三十五。

Not 05:30, not 05:35.

我就在五点三十二准时到。

I'll be there at 05:32.

有时候那多出来的三分钟。

Sometimes those three extra minutes.

你明白吧？

You know?

差别可大了。

All the difference.

对。

Yes.

对。

Yes.

对。

Yes.

好的。

Okay.

很多跑者常常因为走路休息而自责，觉得真正的跑者不该这样。

So too often, runners can get down on themselves for taking walk breaks, feeling like that's not something real runners do.

我说‘真正的跑者’的时候，是打引号的。

I'm using air quotes on real.

那咱们就来打破这个迷思吧。

So let's end this up with you busting that myth.

天哪。

Oh, man.

那个耐克广告，说什么‘欢迎跑者，步行者勉强接受’，我一看就来气。

That whole Nike ad where they said, like, runners welcome or runners welcome walkers tolerated.

我当时就想，哎，你说这叫什么事。

I just was like, you know what?

有些人走路比有些人跑步还快呢，别瞧不起步行的人。

There are some people who walk faster than some people run, so don't bash walkers.

研究也表明，步行对我们特别好，尤其是更年期以后。

And research is showing how great walking is for us, especially after menopause.

步行完全没问题。

So walking is just fine.

我不希望任何人因为自己是步行者而感到不好意思。

I don't want anybody to ever be embarrassed that they're a walker.

那你现在能停下来走一走吗？

Now do you can you take a walking break?

当然可以。

Yeah.

去吧。

Go ahead.

很多人都在用走跑结合的方法。

There's a whole lot of people who do the whole walk run method.

你知道吗，你已经比那1%什么都不做的人强多了。

You know, you're still doing more than you're, like, in the 1% group.

能出门活动，就值得恭喜。

So congratulations for getting outside and doing something.

如果有人真想提高速度、缩短配速，或者跑完五公里的时间，那确实得多跑一些。

I if someone really wants to work on their speed or reducing their time mileage or their how long it takes them to run a five k, you do need to run more.

你得学会怎么让身体动得更快。

You have to learn how to move your body faster.

但如果你今天状态不好，喘得厉害，比如明尼苏达那边大火，影响了我们伊利诺伊的空气质量，

But if you're having a bad day and you just, like, are winded you know, we just had all these fires in Minnesota that affected our air quality here in Illinois.

大家跑起来都气喘吁吁的，那很正常，没关系。

People were sucking wind and so it was fine.

这种日子就走一走，别觉得不好意思。

So you walk on those days and not be ashamed of that.

不过偶尔也别怕提速，逼自己一下。

But don't be afraid to push your running speed once in a while.

可以试试快跑半英里，再休息。

Do some faster half mile repeats.

如果跑完需要走着恢复，那就走，别犹豫。

But if you have to walk to recover from that, go ahead.

很好，很好。

Nice, nice.

丹妮丝，再次和你聊天真的非常愉快。

Well, Denise, once again, it's been a delight to talk with you.

非常感谢你参与我们的节目，还推荐了这个话题。

Thanks so much for joining us and for suggesting this topic.

谢谢你们邀请我来做客。

Well, thanks for having me on.

我特别喜欢聊跑步相关的各种事，感谢让我尽情分享这些干货。

I love talking about all things running, so thanks for letting me nerd out.

太好了。

Great.

好的。

Alright.

我觉得我们其实还能再做一期，因为关于跑步的误解实在太多了。

Well, I think we probably could have done a second episode of that because I think there are just myths and misconceptions are rampant.

这些误解从来都不会消失。

They they never go away.

听完这期节目，我都想回去看迈克尔·杰克逊的视频，跳跳舞了。

And also, after listening to this, I wanna go watch a Michael Jackson video and do some dancing.

就是这样。

There you go.

好了。

Alright.

谢谢收听。

Well, thanks for listening.

本播客由 Another Mother Runner 和 Feisty Media 联合制作。

This podcast is a production of another mother runner and Feisty Media.

想了解更多关于 Feisty 的信息，包括我们的其他播客、工作坊和今年九月在宾夕法尼亚州利哈伊谷举办的 Feisty Fest——就在你以前工作的《跑者世界》附近，Tish——请访问 feisty.co。

For more on Feisty and our other podcast events, workshops, and Feisty Fest, where I hope to see you this September in Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania, right near where you used to work, Tish, at Runners World, visit feisty.co.

网址是 feisty.co。

That's feisty.co.