书籍的里程：变革的另一面

当你的孩子或孙辈去参加夏令营时，你是不是也盼着能有个专为成年女性设计的类似活动？

As your kids or grandkids head off to summer camp, are you wistfully wanting a grown up women's version you could attend?

愿望成真了。

Wish granted.

Feisty Fest，我们的三天盛会，将于2020年9月在宾夕法尼亚州的利哈伊谷举行。

Feisty Fest, our three day festival, September '20 in Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania.

不管你是经验丰富的运动员，还是刚入门的新手，Feisty Fest 都有适合你的项目。

Seasoned athletes or newbies, there's something at Feisty Fest for you.

有越野跑、公路跑、游泳、砾石公路骑行、场地骑行、瑜伽、力量训练、匹克球，还有嘉宾对谈、信息分享和播客录制。

Trail running, road running, swimming, gravel cycling, track cycling, yoga, strength training, pickleball, plus speaker panels, information sessions, and podcast recordings.

想了解更多关于 Feisty Fest 的信息，请访问 feisty.co，或者点击节目笔记里的链接。

Learn more about Feisty Fest by going to feisty.co or clicking the link in the show notes.

欢迎收听《Miles of Books》，这是一档专为跑步者打造的读书节目，由另一位跑者妈妈兼 Feisty 主办。

Welcome to Miles of Books, a book centric show to take along on your run from another mother runner and feisty.

我是主持人莎拉·鲍恩·希亚，我的搭档教练莉兹·沃特斯特拉特将和我一起聊聊今年年初刚出版的一本轻巧却引人入胜的非虚构作品。

I'm your host, Sarah Bowen Shea, and coach Liz Waterstraat is my cohost to talk about a slender, intriguing nonfiction book that debuted earlier this year.

嗨，丽兹。

Hello, Liz.

好久没见了。

It's been a while.

是啊。

It has.

嗨，莎拉。

Hi, Sarah.

对。

Yes.

没错。

Yes.

在我们聊这本书之前，前几天你发给我一张你丈夫管它叫‘轻量夏日小食’的照片，把我逗笑了。

So before we get into the book that we're going to be talking about, you made me laugh the other day when you texted me a photo of what your husband deems as, light summer fair.

这个

This

这是他夏天要读的书。

is his summer read.

我丈夫和我大儿子要和我丈夫那边的家人一起去欧洲游轮旅行。

My husband and my older son, they're heading out on a European cruise with my husband's side of the family.

我丈夫说，他要去书店挑一本书。

And my husband's like, I'm going to go to the bookstore and pick up a book.

我就说，那你得读点什么。

And I'm like, Oh, you should read.

我给他推荐了几本轻松的非虚构类书籍。

And I'm giving him the names of some light non fiction books.

我觉得他可能会喜欢《舒适区危机》或者《林中漫步》这类书。

I thought he might enjoy like Comfort Crisis, Walk in the Woods.

结果他带回来一本《奥德赛》。

He comes back with The Odyssey.

是的。

Yeah.

这本的装帧也特别独特。

A very unique looking copy too.

没错。

Yes.

是啊。

Yeah.

可不是那种我们高中时读的普通版本。

Not, not like a normal copy that maybe we read in high school.

这本讲的是对《奥德赛》的解读，或者它的历史背景。

This is like thoughts on the odyssey or the history of the odyssey.

不过说真的，你觉得他会坐在圣托里尼的海滩上读《奥德赛》吗？

Anyway, I don't I'm like, you're not gonna be sitting in Santorini on the beach reading the odyssey, are you?

不过也许还真挺合适的。

May maybe it's very appropriate though.

要是他出发前看了克里斯托弗·诺兰的那部电影，那倒挺贴切的，最近这事儿可挺火的。

Maybe if he sees the Christopher Nolan movie before he goes, you know, so that's causing quite the buzz.

不过你家这孩子还真是有其父必有其子，听说你小儿子正在读这本大部头。

But then the apple doesn't fall far from the tree there in your house because your youngest is reading, as I understand it, this tome.

是的。

Yes.

他正在认真读《这可不是什么火箭科学》。

He's digging right into It's Not Rocket Science.

这本书有点超出了我的理解范围，但正合他的水平，所以他正在读，还有一本关于国际象棋的书。

That book is, it's a little over my head, but it's right in his league, and so he's reading that, and he's got a book about chess, So

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

确实如此。

Yeah.

这本叫《通过太空任务探索物理学》。

So so this one's called It's Just Exploring Physics Through Spaceflight Missions.

是的

Mhmm.

这本书的作者是我们社区的老成员特里西亚·默罗，她人很好，特意寄给了我们。

And it is by a longtime member of our community, Tricia Murrow, so who is nice enough to send it to us.

你一听就说对。

And you're like Yes.

没错。

Yeah.

我猜我的儿子梅森多大了？

I bet my my what what is Mason?

九岁？

Like, nine?

十岁？

10?

他现在十岁了。

He's 10 now.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

这本书就在这儿，但我跟大家比起来，简直像个文盲，现在别人读的书我根本跟不上。

It's in this house, I'm I'm illiterate, basically, compared to everyone else and what they're reading these days.

天哪。

Oh my goodness.

好吧。

Okay.

不过你今天聊的这本书，跟你在节目里以前提到的任何一本都不一样。

But you today are talking about a book that sounds unlike any other that you've talked about on this show before.

书名叫《变化的另一面：当生活另作安排时，我们会成为怎样的人》，作者是玛雅·尚卡尔。

It's called The Other Side of Change, Who We Become When Life Makes Other Plans, and it's written by Maya Shankar.

你给我们简单讲讲这本书的内容吧。

So fill us in on the basics of that one.

是的。

Yeah.

我看过这本。

I saw this one.

这本书当时挺火的，我看到了，后来才终于拿起来读。

This one made the rounds, and I saw it, and I finally picked it up.

封面特别漂亮。

It's got a beautiful cover.

现在手头没拿着，但光凭封面你就值得选它。

I don't have it in front of me, but you could choose this one based on its cover.

这是一本新书。

This is a newer book.

它是在2026年出版的。

It was published back in 2026.

一上市就上了《纽约时报》畅销榜，我也觉得，这绝对是近几年我读过最好的书之一。

Instant, New York Times bestseller, and I would agree it is probably one of the best books I've read in the last couple of years.

哇哦。

Wow.

是的。

Yeah.

真厉害。

Wow.

而且只有191页。

And 191 pages.

那影响了你对它的看法吗？

Did that color your reaction to it?

读起来特别轻松。

It made it really easy to read.

我跟你说，真的。

I'll tell you that.

我觉得她特别清楚什么时候该收尾。

So I feel like she knew exactly when to stop too.

这正是优秀作家的标志，而尚卡尔本人是一位认知科学家，也是罗德学者。

That that's, that's the mark of a great author, but Shankar herself, she's a cognitive scientist, a Rhodes scholar.

她的文字非常学术，读起来很有智慧。

That's very, very scholarly and sounds smart.

她曾担任奥巴马白宫的政策顾问。

She was a white house Obama white house policy advisor.

她还主持一档名为《计划微调》的播客。

She's a host of the podcast called A Slight Change of Plans.

她在书中也深入谈到了自己学习小提琴的经历。

And she also digs in the book about her background in violin.

她的小提琴技艺相当出色。

She was quite the violinist.

她就读于茱莉亚音乐学院。

She went to Juilliard.

她曾师从伊扎克·帕尔曼，你可能听说过他。

She studied under Itzhak Perlman, who you may be aware of.

后来她经历了一次意想不到的人生变故——因为手部严重的肌腱损伤，她再也无法拉小提琴了。

And she had an unexpected personal change, which actually part of that was she lost her ability to play the violin after a very serious tendon injury to her hand.

这让她开始寻找答案。

So it sent her looking for some answers.

她花了三年半的时间写这本书，还有她更大的难题。

And then she spent three and a half hours writing this book and her even bigger problem.

不，不是三年半，是三年半年，整整三年半。

No, no, no, three and a half years, three and a half years.

三年半，抱歉，她花了三年半时间写这本书。

Three and a half years, excuse me, writing this book.

这期间她遇到了很多困难，但最严重的，也是她最私密的，是在最后一章才透露出来的。

And then she's had many problems along the way, but the biggest one, I would say the most personal one that she shares, she discloses it in the last chapter.

哦。

Oh.

那跟手部受伤不一样吗？还是说就是同一个问题？

So that's different than the hand injury, or that is the hand injury?

是的

Yeah.

她先从手部受伤说起，但最后才揭晓真正改变她人生的那件事。

So she she kind of kicks off the topic by talking about her hand injury, and then at the end, she gives you the real story, the real, like, life changing thing that happened to her.

我不想剧透，让别人自己去发现。

And I don't I don't wanna spoil it for everyone.

对

Mhmm.

明白了

Okay.

是的

Yeah.

明白了

Okay.

很好

Great.

好的。

Alright.

明白了。

Okay.

差不多跟大多数人上大学的时间一样长，才写出了这本191页的书。

So nearly as long as most people are in college to write a 191 page book.

真厉害。

Wow.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

我觉得她心里有很多事需要梳理。

I think she had a lot to work through.

她做了大量的研究。

She did a lot of research.

这本书主要是讲故事，讲得特别棒。

This book is a lot of storytelling, really good storytelling.

之后她再把研究内容自然地融入进去。

And then she weaves in the research after that.

我觉得她是花了时间去了解每个人的故事，让这个主题慢慢沉淀下来。

So I think she just took her time to get to know people stories and really sort of let the topic marinate, so to speak.

我想这就是为什么她花了这么长时间的原因。

And that's, I'm guessing that's why it took her a while.

明白了。

Okay.

好的。

All right.

那这本书的核心思想是什么？

And the big idea behind this one?

是的。

Yeah.

这本书并不是通常我们在这里讨论的那种关于表现的书。

So this is not a performance book, which is traditionally what we talk about here.

它也不是一本关于效率的书。

It's not a productivity book.

它真正探讨的是，当你生活中失去那些你赖以构建自我的东西时，究竟会发生什么。

It's really a book about identifying specifically what happens to you when your life takes something away that you've built yourself around.

我想，光是凭我们自己的经历，每个人都能想到类似的情况。

And I think that even just off the top of our heads, each of us can think of something like that.

她采访了一些经历过巨大变故的人，其中有些遭遇确实非常悲惨。

So she interviewed people who had gone through extraordinary disruptions and some were truly tragic.

她把这些人的故事和认知科学结合起来，而这正是她擅长的领域，因为她一直做这方面的研究。

And she weaves their story together with cognitive science, which is right up her alley with all the research she does.

所以这些故事并不总是圆满收场。

So the stories are not always tidy.

我跟你说实话。

I'll be honest with you.

有些人的故事最终走向了他们从未想过、也绝不会选择的方向。

Some really do end in places that the person never planned for or would not have chosen.

有些部分读起来特别混乱，甚至让人很难读下去。

And some are really messy to read and hard to read.

真的特别触动人心。

It really tugs at your heartstrings.

但最终，这些故事里的人在经历之后都变了，而且往往不是他们自己预料的那种变化。

But what they share ultimately is that the people in them are different on the other side and not always in the ways they expected.

我想我们都听过类似的例子。

And I think we've all heard examples of this.

有人遭遇了改变人生的事故，挺过来之后完全变了个人，但常常会说：‘这反而是我遇到过最好的事’，或者‘正因为发生了那件事，我才有了其他一些真正好的经历’。

Somebody gets into a life changing accident, they emerge on the other side and they're different, but often they'll say something like, it was the best thing that happened to me, or because that happened to me, these other things happened to me that were actually good things.

所以，她贯穿全书的核心问题其实很简单，却又极其深刻。

So, you know, the question that she threads through the entire book is really rather simple, but also highly complex.

当计划被打乱时，你会变成什么样的人？

And it's when the plan changes, who do you become?

我觉得我们大多数人其实从来没认真问过自己这个问题。

And I think most of us have never actually asked ourselves that.

我们总是忙着想回到过去的自己，或者回到原来的生活状态，却从没想过，也许我们会变成另一种人呢？

We're so busy trying to get back to who we were or what we were doing that we never think of, well, who might we become instead?

这真有意思。

That's intriguing.

对。

Yeah.

那你觉得，拿跑步圈或者运动员群体来说，如果他们受伤了，是不是总想着回到从前，而不是往前看？

So do you think, so thinking about, like, let's bring it back to the running community, the athlete community, do you think that, let's say they have an injury or something happens that they're always trying to get back rather than forward?

这真的很难。

It's so difficult.

我想到的不只是受伤，还有衰老，这可是单向的、不可逆的过程。

I also think not only of injury but aging, you know, which which ultimately is linear and only goes forward.

总想着能跑出更快的成绩，少点疼痛，不用热身十五二十分钟再开始运动。

And the wishing for those, you know, faster times, the less pain, the not having to warm up for fifteen, twenty minutes before we go do something.

是的。

Yeah.

当然，而且我还在想，我是不是该早点开始呢？

So for sure, and also, I think maybe even questioning, like, should I have started younger?

如果我早点开始，现在会不会不一样？

Would I be in a different place if I'd started younger?

你懂的。

You know?

这种想法真的挺多的。

There's just a lot of that.

而且，确实容易让自己陷入自我设限。

And, yeah, it can be self sabotaging.

这让我想到，当你翻到十年前的照片，突然就觉得，天哪。

And it's it's, brings to mind the when you look at a photo of yourself from, you know, ten years ago and you think, oh my gosh.

那时候怎么就不懂得珍惜当下呢？

Why wasn't I just happier with the way things were then?

你懂的。

You know?

比如看看我那时候的手臂啊，或者别的什么。

Like, look at my arms then or, you know, whatever.

但现在呢，再过十年，我们也会这样。

And it's just like so so but right now, we'll be ten years from now.

你懂的。

You know?

所以啊，好好珍惜当下拥有的东西。

So so enjoy what you have in this moment.

确实如此。

So true.

确实如此。

So true.

是的。

Yeah.

好了。

Alright.

现在是广告时间。

It's sponsor break time.

等我们回来，教练莉兹会分享她从这本发人深省的书里学到的三点内容。

Coach Liz will share among other things the three things she learned from this thought provoking book when we return.

Hettas跑鞋，专为女性生物力学量身打造。

Hettas running shoes, built from the ground up for women's biomechanics.

在 hettas.com 使用优惠码 STAYFEISTY，立享八折。

Save 20% with code STAYFEISTY at hettas.com.

就像我最近在这档节目里说的，Feisty 带我认识了太多好东西，包括 Hettas 跑鞋。

Like I said recently on this show, Feisty is introducing me to so many great things, including Hettas running shoes.

Hettas 是一家加拿大品牌，只做女性专用跑鞋。

Hettas is a Canadian brand that only makes running shoes for women.

Hettas 与大学合作，推动针对女性生物力学与运动表现的研究。

In partnership with the university, the Hettas folks are advancing research focused on women's biomechanics and performance.

Hettas跑鞋专为女性设计，基于科学依据，并经过实际运动测试。

Hettas shoes are built specifically for women, grounded in evidence, and tested in motion.

大多数跑鞋的外底在跑完几百公里后就开始磨损了。

Most running shoe outsoles start breaking down within a few 100 kilometers.

Hettas在Alma系列上采用了不同做法，用浇注聚氨酯替代了传统橡胶外底。

Hettas took a different approach with the Alma line, a cast polyurethane outsole instead of standard rubber.

它的耐磨性大约是普通橡胶的两倍，这可不是实验室里的空谈。

It's roughly double the abrasion resistance of traditional rubber, and it's not just a lab claim.

两位精英跑者各自穿了一双，跑了一千多公里，一位跑了1600公里，另一位跑了1900公里才磨穿。

Two elite runners put over a thousand kilometers on a single pair each, one hitting 1,600 kilometers and the other 1,900 before wearing through.

跑这么远的路，脚下的抓地力依然稳如磐石。

That's a lot of pavement without losing your footing.

我来帮你换算一下单位。

And let me do the conversion for you.

一位跑者差不多跑了1000英里，另一位接近1200英里。

That's one runner going nearly 1,000 miles and the other nearly 1,200 miles.

这就是Hettas的Alma跑鞋，专为耐久而设计。

That's the Alma from Hettas, a road shoe built to last.

记得要选大半码。

Be sure to order a half size up.

尽量省点钱。

Try and save.

去hettas.com，使用优惠码STAYFEISTY，立享八折。

Go to hettas.com and use the code STAYFEISTY for 20% off.

优惠码是STAYFEISTY，在hettas.com使用，S-T-A-Y-F-E-I-S-T-Y，享受八折优惠。

That's STAYFEISTY for 20% off at hettas.com, hettas.com with code STAY, f e I s t y, for 20% off.

感谢Currex长期以来对我们所有运动项目的支持。

Thanks to Currex for its longtime support in all our athletic pursuits.

在currex.com下单，使用代码AMR 15，全单享八五折。

For 15% off your entire Currex order, visit currex.com and use code AMR 15.

Currex鞋垫融合了最新的医学与生物力学研究，专为提升舒适度、运动表现和预防损伤而设计。

Utilizing the latest medical and biomechanics research, Currex insoles are engineered for unequaled comfort, performance, and injury prevention.

不管你做什么运动——跑步、徒步、骑行、高尔夫还是球类运动，都要为自己创造成功的条件。

Whatever activity you do, running, hiking, cycling, golf, or court sports, you want to set yourself up for success.

从脚底开始改善，把运动鞋原配的鞋垫换成Currex鞋垫。

Start from the ground up by replacing the insoles your athletic shoes come with for a pair of Currex insoles.

Currex鞋垫采用专利动态足弓技术，加上双层缓震设计，能有效支撑足部，顺应自然步态，帮助膝盖和髋关节保持正确对齐。

With its patented dynamic arch technology and a dual layer of cushioning, Currex insoles properly support the foot and its natural movement for ideal knee and hip alignment.

更换鞋垫非常快，也很简单。

Swapping insoles is quick and easy.

我穿的是大号，正好适合我11码的运动鞋；如果鞋稍微大一点，Currex鞋垫还很容易修剪调整。

The size I wear, large, fits perfectly in my size eleven athletic shoes, and Currex insoles are easy to trim to fit your size if it's a little big for your shoes.

我用的是高足弓款，另外还有中等和低足弓款可选。

I wear the high arch version, and they're also available in medium and low arch.

Currex提供市面上最全的专项运动鞋垫系列，涵盖跑步、骑行、徒步、步行、足球、球类运动，还有整天站立工作的上班族专用款。

Currex offers the largest line of sport activity specific insoles, including ones for running, cycling, hiking, walking, soccer, court sports, plus ones for folks who are on their feet all day in the workplace.

亲身体验Currex的差别，今天就放心试用吧。

Feel the Currex difference and try Currex risk free today.

公司提供六十天保修，即使你已经把鞋垫剪裁过也一样有效。

The company offers a sixty day warranty even if the product has been cut to fit your shoes.

上 currex.com，使用优惠码 AMR 15，全单立减百分之十五。

Visit currex.com and use code AMR 15 for 15% off your entire order.

就是 currex.com，记得用 AMR 15 这个码，能省百分之十五。

That's currex.com with code AMR 15 for 15% off.

currex.com，别忘了输 AMR 15。

Currex.com, that code AMR 15.

如果你也想重温夏令营的感觉，但不想睡上下铺、也不用上旱厕，那就来参加 Feisty Fest 吧——今年夏末在风景优美的宾夕法尼亚州利哈伊谷举办。

If you're craving a summer camp experience of your own, minus bunk beds and outhouses, join us at Feisty Fest, happening in the final days of summer in lovely Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania.

这个为期三天的活动专为女性打造，核心就是运动、学习和社群联结。

This three day festival is crafted specifically for women and dedicated entirely to movement, learning, and community.

活动安排了超多动起来的项目：越野跑、砾石路骑行、游泳课程、匹克球教学、场地自行车、力量训练，还有适合各个水平的瑜伽课。

Feisty Fest serves up active options galore, trail runs, gravel rides, swim clinics, pickleball instruction, track cycling, lifting sessions, yoga for all levels of participants.

还有由资深专家主持的圆桌讨论，以及几乎每期 Feisty 播客的现场录制。

There are also panel discussions with lively, knowledgeable experts and numerous recording sessions of almost every Feisty podcast.

我们网站上提供了详细的活动日程。

We have a detailed schedule of events and activities on our site.

我特别期待的两场学习环节，一个是安妮卡·韦德主讲的‘受伤后的韧性与自我认同’，她本身也是一位适应性山地车手；另一个是关于如何用心率训练的课程，我敢肯定莉兹教练会参与。

Two learning sessions I'm especially looking forward to, resilience and identity after injury with Annika Wade, who is, among other things, an adaptive mountain biker and how to train with heart rate session that I'm fairly certain coach Liz will be a part of.

当然也安排了充足的休息时间，让你放松身心，和其他女性建立联系。

And there's also much needed downtime to decompress and connect with other women.

和夏令营一样，你可以一个人来，也可以和朋友结伴参加。

As with summer camp, you can attend solo or with friends.

和所有线下活动一样，这次活动也有Another Mother Runner的深度参与。

And like all IRL events, another mother runner has a hand in.

你会带着更开心的心情、更健康的状态回家，手机里也加满了新朋友的联系方式。

You'll head home happier, healthier, and with a phone full of new friends.

要不要现在就开始编友谊手链了？

Maybe start weaving friendship bracelets now?

想了解更多关于Feisty Fest的信息，请访问feisty.co。

Learn more about Feisty Fest by going to feisty.co.

就是 feisty.co。

That's feisty.co.

再强调一下，Feisty Fest。

Again, Feisty Fest.

去 feisty.co 看看吧。

Go to feisty.co.

好的。

Okay.

Liz，你学到了哪三点？

Three things you learned, Liz.

好。

Okay.

第一点是，在经历变化之后，最重要的问题不是发生了什么。

The first is that the most important question after a change isn't what happened.

而是这个人还能成为谁？

It's who else can I or this person be?

Shankar 在书的开头讲了她是如何失去小提琴的。

So Shankar starts the book with how she lost the violin.

从茱莉亚音乐学院开始，她的整个身份就围绕着这把琴建立起来。

Her entire identity had been built and wrapped around it since Juilliard.

她一直以为，这就是她余生要做的事。

She thought that's what she was going to do for the rest of the life.

可是当琴没了，那些技术能力却一点都用不上了。

And none of those technical skills transferred when it was gone.

但她后来意识到，一路上她其实已经积累了很多东西。

But what she realized is what she had built along the way.

那种坚韧、创造力，还有在压力下表现的能力，最终在她从未想过的领域里派上了用场。

So the grit and the creativity and the capacity to perform under pressure turned out to matter in pursuits that she never even considered.

所以，变化并没有夺走她真正建立起来的东西。

So change didn't take what she built.

它夺走的，只是她以为自己在为这些能力所追求的那个目标。

It took what she thought she was building it for.

然后她不得不面对一个问题：我还能成为谁？

And then she was forced to reckon with the question of who else can I become?

所以莎拉，我想问你，当你所投入的某个自我版本发生改变时，

So Sarah, my question for you is when a version of yourself you'd invested in change.

也许那是一个目标、一个角色，或者一段人生的结束，

So maybe this was a goal or a role or a chapter close.

你有没有发现，你之前积累的东西，最后在你没想到的地方派上了用场？

Did you find that what you'd built transferred somewhere that you didn't expect?

嗯，这个嘛，说起来其实挺顺理成章的，我以前是做杂志记者的，但这个行业后来变得不太稳定。

Well, I mean, this one's kind of a a little bit of a layup, you know, that, I was a longtime magazine journalist, and that market got kinda rocky.

与此同时，我和迪米蒂的第一本书正好出版了。

And at the same time, that was when Dimity and I's first book came out.

那时候我把自己定位为一个纯粹的写作者，后来也把这份能力用在了打造‘另一个妈妈跑者’的身份上。

And so it was taking, you know, I thought of myself as, quote, unquote, just a writer, and then certainly use that in the building of another mother runner.

但与此同时，我也意识到——

But then also, like, hey.

你看。

Looky there.

我挺擅长做营销的。

I'm kinda good at marketing.

我能对着麦克风讲话，而不是光打字。

I can get behind a microphone and talk instead of typing.

你懂的？

You know?

诸如此类的事情。

That sort of thing.

所以也许就是那种好奇心。回到 Shankar 提到的那个点，你知道，有一些特质、一些品质、一些技能。

So maybe just that that the curiosity so going back to Shankar's thing, you know, so there were, you know, some traits, some qualities, some skills.

比如我从写作中培养出的好奇心和创造力，这些转化为了将 AMR 打造成今天这个样子的能力。

So curiosity and creativity that I had from writing that translated into, you know, making building AMR into what it became.

对。

Yeah.

是的

Yeah.

对

Yeah.

这真的挺有意思的

That's that's really interesting.

你能这么反思，看出这些事情之间的联系，真的很不错

I mean, it's nice that you're able to to reflect on that and recognize and see how it's all connected.

是的

Yeah.

对

Yeah.

明白了

Okay.

你还学到了什么别的吗？

What's another thing you learned?

我们每个人都在照料一片自己没完全亲手种下的花园。

So we are walking around with a garden we didn't entirely plant.

作为园丁，我很喜欢这个比喻和这个想法。

I like this metaphor and this idea as a, as a gardener myself.

这是心理咨询师艾比·伯克提出的花园隐喻，我特别认同。

So this is, from therapist, Abby Burke, her garden metaphor, and it's one that I really liked.

她说，每个人来到这个世界时，花园已经悄然生长了。

So she says each person arrives with a garden already underway.

有些植物是继承来的，有些种子是童年时别人擅自种下的，还没问过你的意见；还有一些杂草，早在你到来之前就已经繁衍了好几代。

Some plants inherited, some seeds planted in childhood by people who didn't ask your permission, some species of weeds that have been growing for generations before you arrived.

成年后，你可以决定怎么打理它——该拔掉什么，该培育什么。

And then as an adult, choose how to tend to it, what to pull and what to cultivate.

但大多数人多年来都是在无意识中打理这片花园的。

And most have been, most of us have been managing this garden on autopilot for years.

我们从来没停下来问问：哪些信念是我真正选择的？哪些只是我来的时候，它们已经长在那里了？

We've never stopped to ask which beliefs did we actually choose and which ones did we just find growing here when we arrived?

所以尚卡尔认为，改变正是一个机会，让我们终于能诚实地审视自己的花园，拔掉不需要的杂草，留下真正想保留的，清除那些不再属于我们的东西。

So what Shankar argues is that change then is an opportunity to finally look at our gardening honestly, to weed it out, to, to keep what we want and then pull out what no longer we want growing there.

那么，萨拉，你现在的花园里，有没有哪一种植物是你根本没种下的？

So Sarah, is there one thing growing in your garden right now that you didn't plant?

这个问题你可以从任何角度来理解。

You can take that question any way you want to.

你不一定真有花园，我们也可以聊聊那些烦人的害虫，或者别的什么东西，甚至就当是个理论上的花园也行。

You can I don't know if you have a garden, but we can talk about the pests or what else is in there or just a theoretical garden?

天哪。

Oh my goodness.

说实话，我花了整整几十年才意识到，我其实是个运动员。

Well, you know, I think about, that it took me literally decades to realize that I am an athlete.

部分原因在于，就像你刚才说的，有些种子是童年时别人悄悄种下的，根本没问过你的意见，听起来有点吓人，还带着点阴暗的意味。

And in part because my going back to, you know, you're talking about some seeds planted in childhood, by people who didn't ask your permission, that sounded kind of ominous and, you know, some dark undertones.

但我想到我爸爸，我打心底里爱他，他是个特别好的人。

But I think about my dad whom I loved so dearly with my whole heart and was wonderful man.

我绝对不是想贬低他。

So I'm not trying to disparage him at all.

但他经常说，鲍温家的人都是靠文字吃饭的。

But he so often said that people in the Bowen family, we were all people of the word.

所以我小时候特别爱读书。

And so I was a big reader as a child.

久而久之，我就觉得我们家是靠脑子吃饭的，不是靠身体的。

And so it got into my head, I think, that got into my head that we were cerebral people and not people of the body.

我们是思想型的人，不是行动型的。

We were people of the brain instead.

其实这两者完全可以共存。

And the you the two can coexist.

说来你可能不信，你的大脑是和身体连在一起的，身体本来就是用来活动的。

Shockingly, your your brain can be attached to your body, and you can use your body to move.

但很长一段时间里，我总觉得自个儿就是个只会读书的，假装自己是跑步的人。

So but, know, for a long time, I definitely felt like I was just a reader being a poser pretending to be a runner.

所以说吧。

So yeah.

你觉得怎么样？

How about that?

今天我在想这件事，虽然不是专门针对我，但我觉得作为女性，我们常常被暗示说，最想听到的夸奖是‘你看起来真棒’、‘你真漂亮’、‘你真瘦’之类的。

So I was thinking about this one today, and it's not really specifically to me, but I think as women, sometimes we are told that the compliment we're seeking is, wow, you look really good, or you look pretty, or you look thin or whatever.

今天我跑完步，满身大汗，去加油站加油。

I was in the gas station today after sweating my booty off on a run.

那样子真是狼狈。

Was disgusting.

收银台后面的女士说：‘你这身材，跟坦克似的。’

The woman behind the cash register goes, You are built like a tank.

我当时就回：‘对啊，我51岁了，确实像坦克一样结实。’

And I was like, Yes, I am 51 and I am built like a tank.

那真是我听过最棒的夸奖了，虽然这种话，大概不该出现在对女性的赞美清单里。

And it was just the best compliment ever and you know, not one that really should be in the garden of being a woman.

是的

Yeah.

三十年前我可能不会觉得被人叫‘坦克’是件好事，但现在我完全接受这个说法了。

I don't think maybe thirty years ago I would have been appreciative to being called a tank, but these days just rolling right in that.

我就是一辆坦克。

I am a tank.

太棒了。

Love that.

天哪。

Oh my gosh.

好吧。

All right.

你学到的第三件事是什么？

And the third thing you learned?

AWE，这个叫AWE的词，不是什么奢侈品。

So AWE, AWE, the word AWE is not a luxury.

这是让人摆脱胡思乱想最有效的方法之一。

It's one of the most effective tools for getting out of your head.

她提到了这本书。

So she referenced this book.

我几年前还真读过。

I actually read it a couple of years ago.

封面特别美。

Beautiful cover.

像极了北极光。

It's like the Northern lights.

真的很漂亮。

It's very pretty.

这本书叫《敬畏》，作者是达彻·凯尔特纳，他说敬畏就是当你面对某种远超你现有认知的宏大事物时所产生的感受。

The book is called awe of course, and it's by Dacher Keltner and he defines awe as the feeling of being in the presence of something vast that transcends your current understanding of the world.

这说法够玄乎吧？

How's that for woo woo?

神经科学表明，当我们体验到敬畏感时，与自我关注相关的脑区活动会减弱。

And neuroscience shows that when we experience awe, activity in certain brain regions associated with self focus decreases.

也就是说，我们能暂时从自我中抽离出来。

So basically we get away or out of ourselves.

那种在脑海中反复打转的念头，往往能因此平静下来，甚至比写日记或倾诉更有效。

And so a mental loop that might keep circling starts to quiet in a way that even journaling and talking about something often cannot achieve.

她说，你可以在听音乐、仰望星空、或者在大自然中长时间跑步时感受到这种情绪。

So, you know, she said you can have odd or listening to music or being under a big sky or when you're on a long run out somewhere beautiful in nature.

所以她主张，我们应该更有意识地去创造这样的时刻，让自己跳出烦恼，远离内心的纠缠。

And so she makes the case for doing this more on purpose just to kind of get outside of yourself and away from your own struggle.

这让我想到，作为跑步者、匹克球爱好者，或者任何喜欢户外活动的人，我们其实比整天待在室内的人，或者住在城市里、周围缺乏自然震撼感的人，更容易接触到这种敬畏感。

And it made me think about how we as runners or pickleballers or anyone who's out there just enjoying activity outside, how much we are able to access awe more so than someone who just is inside all day or maybe even lives in a city or just somewhere that is not as awe inducing in the traditional nature sense.

你觉得呢？

So what do you think about that?

我觉得这完全正确。

I think that's a 100% true.

想到这一点，这正是我热爱运动的主要原因——它让我有机会体验这些时刻，比如当我站在椭圆机上沿着哥伦比亚河锻炼时，远远望见门罗山在天际缓缓升起。

And thinking about that, it is one of the main reasons why I love being active because of giving myself access to those type of experience, whether it's, you know, when I'm out on my elliptical along the Columbia River and, you know, seeing Mount Hood off there in the distance rising up.

有时候，说到敬畏感，你提到了匹克球，那我也来说说这个。

Or sometimes also for me, awe is I you mentioned pickleball, so I'm gonna go there.

有时候，我只是单纯地因为能和这群人一起打球而感到无比开心。

Sometimes I am just so happy to be on the court with the people I'm with.

当我退一步想想，我会由衷地感激：能和这些人在一起，做着这样的运动，身体几乎不痛地活动着，真的太好了。

And stepping back from that and being like, I am so happy and pleased and grateful to be with these people and be doing this activity and moving my body in a largely pain free way.

你说是吧？

You know?

我常打的那片户外球场，周围是高耸的冷杉树，旁边就是威拉米特河。

And then and then also one of the courts I play on outside has these towering fir trees over it, and then there's the Willamette River right there.

我觉得，只要你愿意去留意，敬畏感其实无处不在。

And it just, I think awe can be everywhere that if you're looking for it.

对。

Yeah.

你提到的这一点，我觉得正是敬畏感最重要的地方——它往往会让人心生感激。

And and you've you've touched upon, I think, most important feature of awe is that it tends to bring out gratitude.

我觉得，在我们读过的这些书里，感恩几乎是解决所有问题或困境的良方。

And I feel like gratitude in all of these books we've covered, gratitude is the antidote to just about any sort of problem or, or thing that's going wrong.

一旦你能感受到感恩，那种力量真的很强大。

When you can tap into gratitude, it's really powerful.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

那书里有没有什么让你感到意外的地方？

So, and were, were there any things in the book that surprised you?

有。

Yeah.

不过，考虑到这本书的标题，这一点可能并不让人意外。

So, and this might not be a surprise with the title of it.

这本书并不乐观，但正因如此，我觉得它特别真实可信。

This is not an optimistic book and I feel like that's what made it really trustworthy.

我读过的所有自助类书籍，几乎都承诺‘只要你这么做，情况就会好转，你一定能实现任何目标’。

And so every self help book I've read tends to promise this version of, and then things got better and you know, and then you can do this or you can always achieve anything.

但这本书完全不是这样。

This book doesn't really do that.

书里有些故事的结局，是主人公根本没选择、也不想要，甚至可能根本不喜欢的。

Some of the stories end in places that person didn't choose and wouldn't have picked and maybe didn't even like.

她并没有说，改变一定会带来好的结果。

And she's not arguing that change leads somewhere good.

她想说的是，改变会重塑你，而你如何应对这种改变，才是这本书真正探讨的主题。

It's that change changes you and what you do with that is the actual subject of the book.

我觉得，这种坦诚其实更难写出来。

So that honesty, I think, is harder to write.

读起来也不容易，因为不是每个故事都有圆满结局，但正因如此，我才觉得它格外动人，甚至有种令人共鸣的真实感。

And it's also harder to read because not every story has a happy ending, but that's what I found it really, touching and almost humanizing, in that sense.