通过运动疗愈悲伤

于是我开始给她写信。

So I started just writing to her.

我叫她‘美’。

I called her beauty.

每封信都以‘亲爱的美’开头。

I would write, Dear Beauty.

每一篇都是这么写的。

And every entry started that way.

这是我分享当天经历的方式。

And it was the way that I shared what was going on that day.

所以，我觉得写作这个过程自然演变成了这本书，真的就是水到渠成——原来这真的管用。

And so I think in terms of how processing through writing became the book, that was just really this natural evolution, which was, wow, this is like working.

整个过程中，我根本没什么目的性。

And there was no sort of agenda associated with it at all.

Hov走后，我停不下笔，就像我停不下脚步，停不下和她一起跑一样。

And when when Hov died, I couldn't stop writing much in the same way that I couldn't stop sort of moving with her and running with her.

所以这本书的诞生，其实源于一种迫切的需求——想继续和她对话，也让我意识到，我们对悲伤竟如此恐惧。

And so the book evolved out of almost just this need to continue the conversation and this sort of realization that we're so afraid of we're really afraid of grief.

我知道，这本书会真实地呈现一种近在咫尺、毫不掩饰的悲伤。

And I knew that this book was going to be sort of a portrayal of grief that was like pretty proximate and pretty raw.

很多人跟我说：别急，给点时间吧。

And lots of folks were saying like, Nah, just give it time.

别在这么刚发生的时候，就急着去写这些东西。

Don't, you know, don't try to do this while it's so quote fresh.

这种说法，其实对像我这样的人很不公平。

And I think that does people like me a real disservice.

那些正处在剧烈悲痛中的人，或者想陪伴这些人的朋友，根本找不到能反映我们真实状态的资源。

People like me who are in the acute phase of grief, or people who are trying to show up for those of us in acute phases of grief, and don't have resources that reflect the states that we're in.

于是，这本书在我心里，慢慢变成了一种方式——为那些和我经历相似的人，做点实实在在的事。

And so, the book kind of became this sort of way of being of service in my mind and heart to others who who might have found themselves in a similar situation.

是的。

Yeah.

其中一个重要的教训是，别让人停下那些对他们有帮助的事，比如跑步或者骑车。

And, like, one of the first lessons is to not tell someone to stop doing something that helps them like running or like riding.

对。

Yes.

你提到，整个社会普遍对悲伤感到害怕，或者想刻意保持距离。

And and you bring up the subject of of the culture at large being scared of or not wanting heaping distance from grief.

对吧？

Right?

你能谈谈悲伤认知的重要性吗？

And can you talk a little bit about the importance of grief literacy?

是的，我觉得人们不是因为坏或者冷漠才害怕的。

Yeah, I mean, I think that people aren't afraid because they're bad or sort of at all.

事实上，如果我没亲身经历过，我也会非常害怕。

In fact, I would be really afraid of it too, I think had I not lived through it and lived through it.

以恐惧为基础的方式来应对悲伤，结果就是没人能真正陪在身边。

The challenge with the fear based approach to grief is that then we don't really ever have people who can sort of be alongside.

对 grieving 的人来说，最重要的一点就是至少有一个能依靠的人，能真正看见你内心的痛苦和爱。

And that is perhaps like the single most important thing for grievers is to just have at least one lifeline, one person who can sort of see the immensity of the pain and the love.

因为这样你才不会觉得自己疯了。

Because it makes you feel not crazy.

也会让你觉得，自己还能正常地活在这个世界上，而不是被边缘化。

And it makes you feel like you can sort of exist in the land of the living as opposed to being almost like sidelined.

而 grief literacy 的意义，就在于它赋予了我们这些普通人——非专业人士——语言、技巧和工具，让我们能以真正有帮助的方式陪伴所爱的人，而不是好心办坏事。

And I think what grief literacy does is actually empowers people like us who are just lay people, nonclinical people with language and skills and tools to show up for people we love in ways that help rather than hurt.

其实并不需要那么复杂，关键就是靠近那些让你痛苦的事物。

And it doesn't have to be so complicated, actually, it's really just a matter of sort of being proximate to something that is painful.

而不是转身逃避，而是真正地面向它。

And instead of turning away, like really just turning towards it.

正是在这样的时刻，才会发生很多奇妙的事。

And so much magic comes from those kinds of moments.

这听起来跟你处理情绪的方式非常相似。

Well, that sounds very much like what you are doing with emotion.

你能跟我们讲讲你们组织是怎么成立的吗？

So could you tell us about the founding of your organization, please?

我们最初是在牛顿市康莫大道底下的Heartbreak Hill Running Company开始的。

We started at Heartbreak Hill Running Company at the base of Comm Ave in Newton.

这个

The

你肯定也注意到了店名的含义。

name of the store was not lost on you, I'm sure.

没错。

No.

正是如此。

Exactly.

店主丹非常友善，允许我们这18位失去亲人的朋友——包括失去孩子的父母、失去兄弟姐妹的人，还有失去伴侣的人——连续十个星期日，使用Heartbreak Hill跑步公司的社区空间。

Dan, who's the owner of the store, was really wonderful to let 18 of us bereaved people, some bereaved parents, some bereaved siblings, some bereaved partners into his store and kind of inhabit the community room of Heartbreak Hill running company for ten Sundays in a row in 2023.

我们这18个人一起为纽波特半程马拉松进行了训练。

And 18 of us trained for the Newport half marathon.

我希望他们听了不会觉得被冒犯——他们不会的。

And these were not, I hope they listen and don't take offense, they won't.

这些人的身份，并不是我们通常理解的跑者。

These were not all runners in terms of how we think about runners.

他们都是经历过失去的人，在哀伤的支持圈里，还没找到能真正触动他们的社群或方式。

These were people who had all experienced a loss and hadn't really found in the grief world, a community or a way of sort of being with their grief that resonated.

我自己试过几个心理咨询师，但都不太合适。

And for me, I had tried a couple therapists who didn't work.

我也无法想象，要坐成一圈，围着谈论痛苦和失去。

And I couldn't imagine a grief group where we were sitting around in a circle talking about our pain and loss.

我知道，我需要动起来。

And I knew I needed to be in motion.

于是我写了一小段话，大概半页纸，发给那些和我处境相似的人，没想到真有18个人响应了。

And so I kind of crafted a half page, a little sort of call to anyone who found themselves in a similar situation to me, and was really surprised to find 18 of us who wanted to do this.

十周结束后，这个小组谁都不想散。

And at the end of these ten weeks, the group didn't want to stop meeting.

于是他们说，这件事必须继续下去。

And so they said this has to continue.

我们当中有一位跑者后来在缅因州的贝尔法斯特建立了第一个社区，因为她接下来的人生将定居在那里。

And one of our runners ended up leading our first Belfast, Maine community because she was spending the next part of her life up in Belfast, Maine.

从那以后，这种情感逐渐形成了。

And after that sort of emotion was born.

我们把这种做法系统化了：一种以哀伤为背景、温和引导、完全依靠运动的体验，来探索人们如何聚集在一起。

And we protocolized the approach, which was this kind of grief informed, really gently guided, but entirely movement based, experience to what it might look like to kind of gather.

我们不是坐下来谈论感受，而是通过运动去体会，看看时间久了会带来怎样的疗愈。

And instead of talking about how we're sort of feeling, moving with it and seeing what comes of that healing experience over time.

E-Motion 推动了一种叫做‘运动社群模式’的实践。

So E-Motion facilitates something called the Movement Community Model.

你能给我们简单介绍一下这个‘运动社群模式’吗？

Can you tell us a little bit about the Movement Community Model?

当然。

Yeah.

这个模式现在真的很棒，正在被广泛应用。

So this model is now being it's very cool.

波士顿儿童医院和达纳-法伯癌症研究所正在开展一项经伦理委员会批准的研究，名叫《心灵律动》。

It's being studied by Boston Children's Hospital and Dana Farber in an IRB approved study that's called Hearts in Motion, actually.

这项研究主要关注我们模式中三个核心部分的影响。

And it's looking at, sort of the impact of our three component parts of the model.

也就是运动、社群和仪式，对丧亲者的作用。

So movement, community and ritual on grieving people.

它如何影响我们的归属感、运动的意愿，以及疲劳程度。

So the way it impacts our feeling of belonging, our desire to move our bodies more, our fatigue.

这项研究把佳明手表和一个基于EMA的App搭配使用，这是一种生态瞬时评估工具。

And that particular study pairs a Garmin watch with, a particular EMA based app and, which is just sort of an ecological monitoring assessment.

用来实时记录我们身体的生理变化，并与穿戴设备同步。

So captures what is happening to us physiologically and synced to that garment.

这样我们就能捕捉到这个项目对我们产生的即时影响。

So that we can kind of capture real time the way the program is impacting us.

这个模型在某些方面其实非常简单，我觉得大家都会产生共鸣，那就是我们以适度、可控且可预测的方式聚集在一起。

And the model itself is in some ways like incredibly simple and will resonate with each of you, I think, which is that we gather in a dosed and moderate and predictable way.

这几个词很重要。

And those words are important.

它们源自布鲁斯·佩里博士的理念。

They're part of Doctor.

他是我们的董事会成员，也曾为该模型提供过指导。

Bruce Perry, who's one of our board members and has sort of advised the model.

剂量适中且可预测很重要，因为从神经生物学角度来看，这正是我们增强韧性和建立耐力的方式，而不是让我们产生脆弱性。

Dose moderate and predictable matters because it is the way in which sort of neurobiologically we actually enhance resiliency and build stamina as opposed to create vulnerabilities in us.

然而，在临床环境或现实生活中，我们经常接触到与剂量适中、可预测完全相反的压力模式。

And yet so often, in clinical settings or in the world, we are exposed to patterns of stress that are the opposite of dose moderate and predictable.

这些压力往往不可预测、强度过大或持续时间过长。

They are unpredictable, severe or prolonged.

因此，我们的模型基于这种神经生物学原理，构建了我们所说的“神圣圆圈”。

And so our model takes that kind of neurobiological underpinning and creates this what we call a sacred circle.

我们就是这样聚集的。

That's the way we gather.

持续大约七分钟，带点仪式感。

It's about seven minutes long, and it is kind of ritualized.

这就是整个治疗体验的全部。

And that is the entire therapeutic experience.

之后，大家各自去完成当天的锻炼，不管是跑五公里，还是走两点八英里，都行。

And then the community sets off and does their particular workout for the day, whether that's a five ks run, a 2.8 mile walk, whatever it is.

在每周聚会之间，我们会进行一套温和引导的哀伤课程。

And and then follows what we call a gently guided grief curricula in between weekly gatherings.

这套课程配合每天的跑步或散步练习。

And that curricula is paired with daily running or walking practices.

我们会做爬坡训练，但方式不一样。

So we do hill workouts, but we do them differently.

我们会配合温和的哀伤引导，帮助大家以适合自己的方式去感受这段爬坡的过程。

We do hill workouts with kind of these gently guided grief prompts to help us experience that hill in a way that kind of works for us.

所以我们培训我们的引导者采用这种方式。

And so we train our facilitators in this approach.

我们分批次培训，秋季和春季各一期。

We train them in cohorts, a fall and a spring.

我们的社群由跑步者和步行者组成。

And our communities are comprised of runners and walkers.

我们秉持一种类似新百伦的理念——你只要在跑，你就是跑者。

I guess we take like the New Balance, if you run, you're a runner, sort of mindset.

到今年秋季结束，我们预计会有超过一百个社群，

And now we're, guess at the end of this fall, we'll have 100 plus communities and

并且

be

大约陪伴一千名正在哀伤的人。

kind of moving with like 1,000 grievers.

或许这其中最令人心酸又美丽的地方在于，我们还有一份六百人的等候名单，暂时无法一一接待。

And maybe the tragic beauty of it all is that we still have a 600 person wait list that we can't kind of attend to.

是的。

So yeah.

哇。

Wow.

我很喜欢这种根据大家具体需求定制锻炼方式的想法。

I I love this idea of tailoring workouts to y'all's particular needs.

你能再详细说说坡道训练吗？你们不是说要根据正在经历悲伤的人的需求来调整，而不是像普通人那样，非得拼命冲上坡，因为要参加波士顿马拉松吗？

And and can you tell us a little bit talk a little bit more about, like, a hill workout, how you how you and you said it's not know, you you you tailor you it to the needs of somebody who's going through grief versus like, know, oh, you gotta run this hill really hard because you're gonna be running Boston Marathon.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

当然了。

No, absolutely.

以坡道训练为例，我们会请大家想象，那个你想要纪念的人就在坡顶等着你，仿佛在牵引着你，就像我每次往上爬时感受到的那样。

So on the Hill Workout example, we sort of invite people to imagine the person that they're in the experience to honor kind of at the top of that hill, and almost pulling them, pulling in the case me sort of up that hill.

我们还会鼓励参与者在过程中默念或交流一段话。

And we invite a conversation or a mantra to be sort of shared between the two.

曾经有一位失去兄弟的姐妹，在开始锻炼时努力想象已故的哥哥肖恩在鼓励她、激励她。

And what comes from that is sometimes we had one bereaved sibling who started that workout and was trying so hard to imagine that her brother Sean who had died was like being kind of encouraging and inspiring.

但后来她发现，实际上肖恩性格很爱调侃，很可能根本不会给她加油，反而会逗她、捉弄她。

But what revealed itself was that like actually Sean was pretty sardonic and would have really been giving Katie a hard time.

当她开始接纳这份真实的情感时，整个锻炼的方式也随之彻底改变了。

And as soon as she kind of leaned into like the authentic grief experience, it totally changed the way she was doing that workout.

那是她第一次感受到，自己能真正地与肖恩建立联系，直面悲伤，而不再感到内疚，也不必强求自己必须活成某种样子。

And it was really the first time she described as a moment where she could be in real relationship with Sean, and her grief without feeling guilt or this need to sort of have it be something that it wasn't.

这只是一个例子。

And so we that's like one example.

另一个例子是我们引入了‘命名’在哀伤中的力量这个概念。

Another is we introduced this concept of the power of naming in grief.

比如，我们在马萨诸塞州多切斯特的一位引导者，在每周一次的往返式锻炼中，会引导大家逐步延长往返的距离。

And so one of our facilitators in Dorchester, Mass, in this out and back workout that the group experiences sort of every week, the out and back obviously gets like incrementally sort of longer.

所以，在折返点那里，带领者会用粉笔在路面上写下每一位被纪念者的名字。

And so the turnaround point is, is the facilitator writes in chalk, the names of each of the people who are being honored at the point in the, the sort of pavement where the turnaround happens.

参与者就能看到自己所怀念的人的名字，

And so people get to see their person's name,

而且

and

他们也知道，这里就是折返点。

they know that that is then the turnaround point.

这些做法让我们小组能够自然地占据公共空间，而不是觉得必须躲进教堂地下室，偷偷地参加哀伤小组。

And so these are sort of powerful ways that we kind of allow our groups to take up public space, as opposed to feeling like you have to hide in a church basement and sort of be in grief group.

于是，跑步者在路上总会被人问起：这些名字是怎么回事？

And so what happens is runners get to interact with others on the path when they're inevitably asked like, what are these names about?

这反而变成了一种自豪和力量的来源，而不是那种让人害怕、像秘密一样独自承受的跑步与哀伤体验。

And it becomes a point of pride and strength, as opposed to that sort of scary or sort of secret way of experiencing a run and a grieving experience.

这真是太好了。

That's really wonderful.

哇。

Wow.

你刚才提到了缅因州的贝尔法斯特，还有多切斯特。

So and you have mentioned you know, you mentioned Belfast, Maine.

你还提到了多切斯特。

You mentioned Dorchester.

我明白一下，这个情感项目在全国都有分会吗？

To be clear, emotion is is has chapters nationwide?

是的。

Or yeah.

在全国都有。

Nationwide.

对。

Yeah.

明白了。

Okay.

你刚才提到过，但你认为为什么运动在应对悲伤和处理失去时会如此有效呢？

And and you've you've touched on, but what is it that you believe makes movement such a powerful tool in handling grief or processing loss?

对。

Yeah.

对我而言，最关键的转折点是当我真正意识到博士所说的这个原则时。

The most powerful component for me was when this principle became conscious that Doctor.

布鲁斯·佩里教过我，那就是：有规律、重复、有节奏的活动，天生就能帮助我们平静下来。

Bruce Perry has taught me, which is this idea that patterned repetitive rhythmic activity is inherently regulating to us.

因为我们还在母亲子宫里时听到的那些节奏，是我们最深刻的身体记忆。

And because that patterned repetitive rhythmic activity that we heard when we were in our mother's womb is the strongest somatosensory memory that we have.

这种记忆比任何当下的创伤碎片都要强烈，能让我们感到安全，从而更愿意去面对和处理内心的情绪。

It trumps any shard of trauma that we are experiencing in a moment, and enables us to be open to and feel safe in processing whatever we are trying to process.

所以现在我明白了，为什么我和马特跑步时聊悲伤、聊霍布，对话的深度会不一样——因为我们的神经系统都感到安全，才能敞开去谈这些。

And so it all of a sudden made so much sense that the reason Matt and I have sort of a different level of a conversation when we're running about grief or about Hobb is because our nervous systems both feel safe to go there.

而且我觉得，和别人并肩跑步，而不是一前一后，本身也是一种更安全、更容易深入交流的方式。

And I think that that combined with sort of being next to someone who is running as opposed to being in front of, is also just like a safer way to sort of process.

而且我觉得，跑步的时候，我们会接触到一些让人放下自我的东西，像是激活了大脑的默认模式网络，让我们意识到自己只是更大整体中的一小部分，不得不从脑子里跳出来，真正回到身体里。

And, and then I think that because when we're running, we're interacting with elements that shrink our ego and are kind of like default mode network, and make us appreciate that we are a part of something so much bigger, we are forced to get out of our head and be in our bodies.

所以我真的能想象，喉咙里那个堵着的结，慢慢往下沉，沉到脚底，然后拜托双脚替我承受一些感受——当痛到喘不过气的时候，我就这么跟自己说。

And so I literally can visualize sort of the knot in my throat, like moving down into my feet and asking my feet to like do some of the feeling for me when it feels like I can't breathe, because the pain is too immense.

其实有很多东西，根本不用我们自己去琢磨，运动本身就已经自带了这些疗愈的机制。当你真正纯粹地投入这项运动时，它真的像一份礼物。

And so there's just like, there's so much that we don't have to try to figure out ourselves that is built into this magical sport that makes it such a gift, really, when it's, like, engaged in really purely, I think.

当然，运动的时候，尤其是跑步，大脑会释放出各种化学物质，不管你是慢跑还是冲刺，再加上你们都是在户外进行的。

And there is also, of course, the chemicals that are released in your brain when you're moving, when you're running, ever locking, whatever, and the fact that y'all are doing it outside.

所以你们也在和大自然互动，这本身就有好处。

So you've got some, you know, some interaction with nature there.

我知道，科学上已经证明这些方式对处理悲伤特别有帮助。

And I know there's science behind all of this being being good for for processing grief.

我也知道，很多跑者，尤其是当了妈妈的跑者，即使没有在处理悲伤，也能感受到这种力量。

And I also know that, you know, many runners, mother runners, appreciate and experience that even if we're not processing grief.

而且我觉得，走路、跑步或者和别人并肩运动时，不用直视对方的眼睛，反而更容易打开心扉。

But the the idea of being able to open up when you're walk, when you're running or moving beside somebody and not looking them directly in the eye.

对吧？

Right?

这种能比在任何地方都更深入地倾诉的机会。

The ability to talk through things more and more deeply than ever you would anywhere else.

没错。

Yes.

就像你刚才说的，蒂什，这种失去真的无处不在——无论是亲人的离世、身份的丧失、人生的转折、某个瞬间的终结、婚姻的破裂，还是梦想的破灭，我们的一生，很大程度上就是在学习如何与失去共处。

And loss is, like you said, Tish, I mean, so much of this is universal, like whether it's the death of a person or the loss of identity or of a transition or a moment or a marriage or a dream, it's all so much of our lives are about how we learn how to move with loss.

而我觉得，跑步的时候，我们恰恰能更好地应对这些。

And that I think we do that so much better when we're running.

你同时还做了一个音频系列。

And you have developed also an audio series.

能跟我们说说这个系列吗？

Can you tell us a little bit about that?

它还有个名字。

And it's got a name.

是的。

Yeah.

它叫《处方感受》，简称 Rx to Feel。

It's called, it's called Prescription to Feel, Rx to Feel.

我们设计这个是因为全国各地都有人联系我们，但我们没法及时派受过训练的引导者去到他们所在社区满足需求。

And that was designed because we had folks reaching out across the country who we couldn't meet their needs because we couldn't get a trained facilitator to their neighborhood quickly enough.

所以我们就想，能不能把我们在面对面活动中传递的那些关于哀伤的核心理念提炼出来？

And so the idea was, we capture sort of the heart and soul of these grief concepts that we introduce in our in person experiences?

能不能把它们做成一段音频？

Can we capture those in an audio clip?

能不能让参与者亲自来讲述，做成一种随身陪伴，方便大家在跑步或散步时收听？

And can they be narrated by our participants and used as sort of a companion for people wherever they are to be able to bring on their run or their walk?

这些音频特意设计得很短，因为我们要遵循‘适量、适度、可预期’的原则。

And they're intentionally really short because of that notion of dosed moderate and predictable.

不是让人花四十五分钟听一堂关于哀伤的心理教育课，而是邀请他们听一段简短的内容，然后让运动本身去发挥作用。

Like it's not asking someone to listen to a forty five minute session on psychoeducation around grief, it's inviting them to sort of hear something in brief and then letting the the movement sort of do the work, for them.

好的。

Alright.

接下来是另一个简短的赞助商广告时段。

It's time for another short sponsor break.

如果你想要一场属于自己的夏日营体验，但又不想住宿舍或用旱厕，那就来参加Feisty Fest吧，活动将在夏末的宾夕法尼亚州利哈伊谷温馨举行。

If you're craving a summer camp experience of your own, minus bunk beds and outhouses, join us at Feisty Fest, happening in the final days of summer in lovely Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania.

这场为期三天的盛会专为女性打造，全程围绕运动、学习与社群展开。

This three day festival is crafted specifically for women and dedicated entirely to movement, learning, and community.

活动内容丰富多样，包括越野跑、砾石骑行、游泳课程、匹克球教学、场地自行车、力量训练，还有适合所有水平的瑜伽课。

Feisty Fest serves up active options galore, trail runs, gravel rides, swim clinics, pickleball instruction, track cycling, lifting sessions, yoga for all levels of participants.

此外，还有由资深专家主持的圆桌讨论，以及几乎每期Feisty播客的现场录制。

There are also panel discussions with lively, knowledgeable experts and numerous recording sessions of almost every Feisty podcast.

我们网站上提供了详细的活动日程。

We have a detailed schedule of events and activities on our site.

我特别期待的两场学习环节，一是安妮卡·韦德主讲的‘受伤后的韧性与自我认同’，她本人就是一位适应性山地自行车手；二是关于如何用心率训练的课程，我敢肯定莉兹教练一定会参与。

Two learning sessions I'm especially looking forward to, resilience and identity after injury with Annika Wade, who is, among other things, an adaptive mountain biker and how to train with heart rate session that I'm fairly certain coach Liz will be a part of.

而且还有很多必要的放松时间，让你能和其他女性好好交流。

And there's also much needed downtime to decompress and connect with other women.

和夏令营一样，你可以一个人来，也可以和朋友结伴同行。

As with summer camp, you can attend solo or with friends.

和所有线下活动一样，这次活动也有另一位妈妈跑者参与其中。

And like all IRL events, another mother runner has a hand in.

你会带着更快乐的心情、更健康的状态，以及一手机的新朋友回家。

You'll head home happier, healthier, and with a phone full of new friends.

要不要现在就开始编友谊手链呢？

Maybe start weaving friendship bracelets now?

想了解更多关于Feisty Fest的信息，请访问feisty.co。

Learn more about Feisty Fest by going to feisty.co.

就是feisty.co。

That's feisty.co.

再次提醒，Feisty Fest。

Again, Feisty Fest.

去 feisty.co 查看。

Go to feisty.co.

感谢 Currex 长期支持我们的各项运动。

Thanks to Currex for its longtime support in all our athletic pursuits.

在 currex.com 下单可享 15 美元折扣，使用代码 AMR 15 即可。

For 15 off your entire Currex order, visit currex.com and use code AMR 15.

Currex 内垫融合最新医学与生物力学研究，专为提升舒适度、运动表现和预防损伤而设计。

Utilizing the latest medical and biomechanics research, Currex insoles are engineered for unequaled comfort, performance, and injury prevention.

无论你从事跑步、徒步、骑行、高尔夫还是球类运动，都该从基础做起，为成功打好根基。

Whatever activity you do, running, hiking, cycling, golf, or court sports, you want to set yourself up for success.

把运动鞋原配的鞋垫换成 Currex 鞋垫，从脚底开始优化体验。

Start from the ground up by replacing the insoles your athletic shoes come with for a pair of Currex insoles.

Currex 鞋垫采用专利动态足弓技术，搭配双层缓震，能有效支撑足部自然运动，帮助膝盖和髋关节保持正确对齐。

With its patented dynamic arch technology and a dual layer of cushioning, Currex insoles properly support the foot and its natural movement for ideal knee and hip alignment.

更换鞋垫非常快捷简单。

Swapping insoles is quick and easy.

我穿的是大号，正好适合我11码的运动鞋；如果尺码稍微大一点，Currex鞋垫还很容易修剪调整。

The size I wear, large, fits perfectly in my size eleven athletic shoes, and Currex insoles are easy to trim to fit your size if it's a little big for your shoes.

我用的是高足弓款，他们家还有中等和低足弓的版本可选。

I wear the high arch version, and they're also available in medium and low arch.

Currex的运动专用鞋垫种类最全，涵盖跑步、骑行、徒步、步行、足球、球类运动，还有给整天站着上班的人用的款式。

Currex offers the largest line of sport activity specific insoles, including ones for running, cycling, hiking, walking, soccer, court sports, plus ones for folks who are on their feet all day in the workplace.

亲身体验一下Currex的差别吧，现在下单还支持无风险试用。

Feel the Currex difference and try Currex risk free today.

公司提供60天保修，哪怕你已经把鞋垫剪过尺寸也照样有效。

The company offers a sixty day warranty even if the product has been cut to fit your shoes.

去currex.com下单，用代码AMR 15，全单立减15%。

Visit currex.com and use code AMR 15 for 15% off your entire order.

就是currex.com，记得用代码AMR 15，能省15%。

That's currex.com with code AMR 15 for 15% off.

currex.com，代码AMR 15。

Currex.com, that code AMR 15.

所以，梅拉，我最近在一次采访中听到你说，有时候我觉得只有大自然才能给予我们真正需要的东西。

So, Myra, I recently heard you say in an interview, sometimes I think only the natural world can give us what you need.

我们之前已经简单聊过一点，关于待在户外意味着什么。

So you've we've already touched upon a little bit about what it means to be outside.

你能再深入讲讲吗？

But could you expound on that a bit?

因为对我来说，待在户外绝对是我的人生良药。

Because for me, that being outside is definitely my personal life elixir.

我

I

我觉得我的失落感，远远超出了我曾经想象中能承受的范围。

think that so much of my loss experience is like beyond the scope of what I ever imagined to be something I could hold.

只有大自然，才能与我内心的痛苦和爱的深度相匹配。

That the natural world is the only thing that kind of matches the immensity of my pain and my love.

所以在那里，我总能感到意外、被支持、被激励，却从不觉得被评判或被压制。

And so it's the place where I feel like constantly sort of surprised and supported and challenged, and without feeling judged or quieted.

有一段时间，我和自然的关系发生了变化，因为我曾经以为，自然总是平静安宁的——这么说可能听起来挺天真的，但我现在意识到确实有点天真。

And for a while, I felt like and my relationship to it has evolved because for a while I was thinking like, Oh, nature is always this is maybe naive, as I'm even saying it sounds super naive, like peaceful and quiet.

但其实不是，自然也可能非常可怕，能瞬间摧毁整个社区。

But no, I mean, is, it can be horrific and can wipe out communities.

正因如此，我开始慢慢理解，这种极端的反差恰恰真实地呈现了悲伤的本质——它就在那里，赤裸而直接。

And so in that way, too, I'm sort of learning to appreciate that almost because the opposite extremes can exist in such real raw ways, which is grief.

就像同时承载着巨大的痛苦、深沉的爱与美，这一切交织在一起。

It's like trying to hold both the incredible pain and the incredible love and beauty all at once.

我觉得，只有自然能真正展现悲伤的全貌，比我用语言描述得更深刻、更到位。

I think that it's really the only place that demonstrates the grief experience and does it much better than I am articulating as an example.

我猜你在与自然相处的过程中，一定经历过不少难忘的时刻。

I imagine you have, a lot of memorable moments from, your emotion, endeavors.

能和我分享一两个吗？

Can you share a couple of them?

是的。

Yeah.

每天几乎都会收到一些消息，总能打动我。

It almost feels like every day we get some kind of note or message that kind of moves me.

我想到一个例子，为了保护隐私，我会改掉一些细节。有个来自纽约上州的参与者，他的两位家人在一场空难中去世了。

I think there's been the one that is coming to my mind, and I'll change some of the details to keep it anonymous, but is, we had a community participant in the Upstate New York area who lost two family members to a plane crash.

他说，事故发生后，自己整整三年都把自己关在家里。

And he said that he had basically was inside for three years after this happened.

他一辈子都是个跑步爱好者。

And he had been a runner all his life.

有个人送了他一份情感支持。

And someone in his life sent him emotion.

他一开始说：‘我不是那种会参加团体活动的人。’

And he initially said, like, I'm not a joiner.

但后来他开始了解我们的方式，心想：‘要不试试看吧。’

And then he started sort of reading about, the way we approach this and said, I'll give it a shot.

结果他真的试了，说这救了他一命，最后还专程开车去了波士顿。

And he did and, said it saved his life and ended up driving up to Boston.

我们俩一起走了两个小时。

And we took a two hour walk together.

他说，真正让他打开心扉的，是第一次活动时，带领者给他寄了一封信，信封上写着他们家人的名字。

And he said that the reason that it did was because the first gathering, he was met with a personal note from his facilitator that on the envelope, it had the name of his people.

他拆开那封信，那种被理解的感觉，是他多年以来第一次重新找回的平静。

And he got to open a letter that sort of centered him in a way that he's never, never centered anymore.

还有很多人说，他们曾经觉得再也无法在外头跑步了，因为他们的孩子是胎死腹中，看到婴儿车、看到父母推着孩子散步，心里实在太痛。

I think other really meaningful ones are people who say that they've they never thought that they could run outside again because their child was a stillborn and being seeing strollers and seeing parents pushing strollers was just too painful.

所以他们一直只在跑步机上跑，但现在，终于能重新在外头跑步了，感觉安全多了。

And so they just started running on treadmills all the time, and now feel like they've been able to reconnect with outdoor running in a way that feels safe.

还有一些人，以前从不觉得自己是跑者，但现在他们明白，哪怕每周跑或走个半英里两次，也比过去强了两倍，这种改变让每一天都不一样了。

And then people who never identified as a runner but now appreciate that even running or walking a half a mile a couple times a week is like a 200% increase from their previous existence and that it changes the way they sort of experience a day.

最深刻的，是这种陪伴真的深入骨髓，我们感觉自己就是在做该做的事，仅此而已——不是说痛苦突然消失了。

So and then maybe most profoundly is like, this stuff is so deep that I think it feels like we're doing what we're meant to do and nothing more, you know, like it's not like, Oh, all of a sudden, the pain is gone.

也不是说，我一下子就好了。

Or, you know, I all of a sudden feel healed.

就是觉得，我至少能好好过这一天，或者有个人能和我分担一些感受，又或者我能重新健康饮食，不再为此感到内疚——因为失去亲人于自杀的愧疚和羞耻感实在太重了。

It's just like, No, I feel like I can be in this day and or I have someone who I can share some of this with, or I feel like I can eat healthy again and not feel guilt about it because the guilt and shame around suicide loss is so immense.

我甚至觉得自己都不配好好吃饭，不配好好照顾自己。

Like, I don't feel like I can feed myself or nourish myself.

外面有太多杂音，还有那些乱七八糟的东西，我知道你们特别反感这些，所以能和你们待在这个空间里，我真的很感激，尽管对正在哀伤的人而言，这些内容也可能非常刺痛。

And so there's so much noise and kind of crap out there, you know, that I know you guys are so anti, which is why I was so honored to sort of be in this space with you that can can also be really painful for grieving people.

所以也许我最想保留的，就是这一点：这不过是某个人在承受巨大痛苦时，努力活下去的一个小小片段而已。

And so maybe that's the thing that feels that like I want to preserve the most is just that like this isn't, this is just a part, like, small part of someone trying to exist with a with a lot of pain.

是的。

Mhmm.

对。

Mhmm.

那个情绪支持项目，我是说，这些课程是固定几周结束的吗？

And is is the emotion program I mean, are those sessions are are they a finite amount of weeks?

因为刚才听你这么说，我突然有点想象得到那种感觉。

Because I can I can imagine hearing you talk just then?

我觉得这些小组里形成的友谊和纽带，一定特别强大。

I thought the friendships and the bonds that must form in these groups just must be staggeringly powerful.

确实如此。

And that Yeah.

然后我看到这些人还想要继续并肩分享他们的真实经历。

That I then see these people wanting to continue to share their literal journey side by side.

是的。

Yeah.

我真不知道该怎么说。

I can't okay.

你之前并不知道这一点。

You didn't you didn't know this.

我们可以保证。

We can promise that.

我刚收到我们哈普登小组发来的邮件，那个小组由一位了不起的丧子妈妈劳拉带领。

I just got an email from our group in Hampden led by this amazing bereaved mom whose name is Laura.

她说，今天刚发了这个。

And she said, she just sent this today.

嗨，我想和你们分享这篇文章，它展示了情感联结的力量。

Hi, I wanted to share this article with you as an example of the power of connection made through emotion.

我组织了这场活动，邀请了我们哈姆登小组另外两位失去孩子的妈妈。

I organized this night and invited the two other bereaved moms from our Hamden group.

这篇文章被《哈特福德邮报》刊登了，今天登上了头版。

This article was picked up by The Hartford Courant and on the front page today.

当然，我希望文章里能提到我们是通过这个互助社群认识的，可惜没有，标题写的是《化悲剧为疗愈行动：致敬因过量用药离世的孩子》。

Of course, I wish it included that we met through our movement community, but alas, and it's that the title is Turning Tragedy Into a Healing Movement Project Honors Children Lost to Overdoses.

这一切都是劳拉促成的，因为她和另外两位妈妈特别亲近，她们就聚在劳拉家哈姆登的小餐桌旁，一起做了这个特别的艺术项目。

And it's these Laura had, because she got so close to these other bereaved moms, they gathered at Laura's small dining room table in Hampton, and they made this incredible art project.

她们管它叫‘康复旗帜’，因为她们的孩子都死于药物成瘾。

They called them recovery flags because they lost their children to addiction.

就这么发生了。

And so that just happened.

我们芝加哥的社群里，还有人一起结伴去坐邮轮。

And then we have other people who go on cruises together from our Chicago community.

所以，这种连锁反应是真实存在的，人与人之间的联结也变得格外深厚。

And so, yeah, the ripple effect is real and the deepening of the connection is super powerful.

那你接下来对情感层面有什么规划吗？

So what what plans do you have for emotion going forward from here?

我的目标是让任何地方、任何人都能拥有这样的互助社群，或者以某种形式存在，真正贴近每个人的实际需求。

I mean, my big ambition is to to ensure that there's a movement community for anyone everywhere, or for a version of it to exist in a way that meets people where they are.

我们正在努力回应这些需求。

And so we are trying to meet the needs.

同时，我们也希望快速成长，但始终保持真诚和原则。

And we're trying to grow quickly and with integrity.

我有一个梦想，有一天能举办一场全国性的峰会，让来自全国各地的参与者和引导者齐聚一堂，一起参与这种活动，人数成千上万，而不是各自分散在小社群里。

And I have a dream of one day having a national summit where our participants and facilitators from across the country get to do one of these runs with thousands of them, in one place as opposed to, you know, isolated by their own smaller community.

没错，这正是我们的期望。

And, yeah, that's that's the that's the hope.

非常感谢你，Myra，分享这些，还创造了这一切，这真是对你女儿莫大的致敬。

Well, thank you, Myra, so much for sharing this and for creating this, and and it's such a lovely honor to your daughter.

非常感谢你邀请我，也信任我，让我能走进你们社区的耳朵里。

Thank you so much for inviting me and, and trusting me to to sort of be in your community's ears.

这对我来说意义重大。

It means a lot.

真的非常感谢你。

So thank you.

也谢谢你。

Thank you so much.

我事先没准备好纸巾在旁边。

I I did not think ahead and have tissues by my side.

正如你所说，Tish，她确实在做非常重要的事。

So that was really as you said, Tish, she is doing very important work.

真的特别美好。

It's really lovely.

是的

Yeah.

对

Yeah.

你让她触动了你的情感，莎拉。

You you she she got the tears flowing for you, Sarah.

是的

Mhmm.

没错

Yeah.

哇哦

Whoo.

好的

Alright.

谢谢你们的聆听。

Well, thanks for listening.

本播客由Another Mother Runner和Feisty Media联合制作。

This podcast is a production of another mother runner in Feisty Media.

想了解更多关于Feisty以及我们的其他播客活动、工作坊，还有今年九月期待与你相见的Feisty Fest，请访问feisty.co。

For more on Feisty and our other podcast events, workshops, and Feisty Fest where I hope to see you this September, Visit feisty.co.

网址是feisty.co。

That's feisty.co.