现在离线反而很酷？

作为Hotels.com会员，您在预订旅行时可以自行决定如何使用您的储蓄。

When you book a trip as a hotels.com member, you decide how to use your savings.

您可以选择立即享受折扣优惠，或将储蓄累积为未来奖励。

Choose to take the instant savings now or bank the savings as rewards for later.

由您决定。

It's your call.

想象一下，将本周住宿的折扣转化为明年豪华海滩度假的奖励。

Envision converting discounts on this week's stay into rewards for a luxurious beach getaway next year.

无需复杂计算。

No complicated math.

无需限制日期。

No blackout dates.

只需您选择如何让旅行为您创造更多价值。

Just you choosing how to make your travels work harder for you.

仅在Hotels.com。

Only at hotels.com.

在美国和英国，酒店会员可享受会员价优惠。

Save your ways available to loyalty members in The US and UK on hotels with member prices.

其他条款适用。

Other terms apply.

详情请见 Seasight。

Seasight for details.

现在回到本期节目。

Now back to the episode.

这段对话的下一部分是，数字极简主义正在兴起。

The next part of this conversation is that digital minimalism is trending.

那么，什么是数字极简主义？

Now what's digital minimalism?

根据互联网的说法，数字极简主义是一种有意识地使用科技的哲学，专注于少数精心选择的、能强烈支持你价值观的在线活动，同时愉快地放下其他一切，旨在减少干扰并提升幸福感。

Well, according to the Internet, digital minimalism is a philosophy of intentional technology use, focusing your online time on a few carefully chosen activities that strongly support your values, while happily letting go of everything else, aiming to reduce distractions and improve well-being.

说实话，听起来真棒。

Sounds gorgeous, honestly.

这正是我曾经实践过的事情，只是当时并没有这个流行词。

This is something that I've participated in without the buzzword attached.

我的意思是，我这么做是出于必要。

I mean, I I did this out of necessity.

但仅仅因为有了‘数字极简主义’这样的流行词，我就担心这不再是一种真正的必要，而仅仅变成了一种潮流本身，我希望不是这样，因为我觉得这是一个非常健康的理念。

But the mere fact that there's, like, a buzzword attached, digital minimalism, makes me worry that this is less of a genuine necessity thing, and it's more of just a trend in itself, which I hope isn't the case because I think this is a really healthy concept.

也许我们正处在一个阶段：任何事情都必须裹上一层漂亮的包装，才能在互联网上被理解。

And perhaps we're just at a point where everything needs to be packaged with a pretty bow on top for it to be able to be comprehended on the Internet.

我们需要这样的流行词，才能轻松地讨论这些话题。

We need buzzwords like this to be able to discuss things easily.

所以也许这就是原因。

And so perhaps that's it.

但我的内心警钟长鸣，我希望人们真正地、发自内心地采纳这种理念，而不是仅仅把它当作一个时髦的流行词。

But alarm bells are ringing in my head where I'm like, I hope that this is something that really people do adopt in a way that's genuine and not just sort of a trendy buzzword.

比如，我现在是个数字极简主义者。

Like, I'm a digital minimalist now.

然后这就变成了一种表演，而不是真正的运动。

And then it's like becomes sort of this performance rather than an actual genuine movement.

理论上，我觉得这是一个非常好的理念。

In theory, I think it's it's a really great concept.

有些人参与数字极简主义的方式比仅仅删除社交媒体应用更极端，比如用功能机替换智能手机，你知道的，那种不能上网的翻盖手机，很糟糕的手机。

Some of the more extreme ways that people are participating in digital minimalism outside of just deleting social media apps, for example, is replacing their smartphone with a dumb phone, you know, a flip phone, a shitty phone that you can't go on the Internet with.

人们做的另一件事是购买iPod，买老款的iPod，以传统方式下载音乐，而不是被算法推送音乐。

Another thing people are doing, buying iPods, buying old iPods, downloading music the old fashioned way instead of being fed music in the algorithm.

他们自己寻找音乐，购买音乐，并选择把音乐放到自己的iPod上。

You know, they're searching for music themselves and buying it and choosing to put it on their iPod.

显然，线下爱好和活动，比如陶艺、阅读、创作艺术、编织，这些动手的活动也有所增加。

There's also apparently been an uptick in offline hobbies and activities like pottery, reading, making art, crocheting, you know, things with hands.

欣赏和使用模拟媒介，比如书籍——正如我刚提到的阅读，也再次变得流行和酷炫。

It's also become trendy and and cool again to appreciate and utilize analog forms of media, books, as I just mentioned reading.

但书籍，比如实体平装书、黑胶唱片，所有这些事物都正在流行。

But books, like physical paperback books, vinyl records, all of these things are trending.

线下活动，那些可以亲手完成、能切实感受到乐趣的事情。

Offline activities, things that can be done by hand, that can be enjoyed tangibly.

我觉得这一切都很好。

And I think this is all wonderful.

我的个人观点是，这是最好的情况。

I mean, my personal opinion is that this is the best case scenario.

我们所有人都意识到过度使用社交媒体是有害的，这真是太好了。

What a great thing that we're all realizing that being on social media too much is toxic.

它正在破坏我们的生活质量。

It's ruining our quality of life.

因此，我们正在回归实实在在的活动。

And so we're going back to tangible activities.

有时我们采取极端措施，比如使用翻盖手机。

We're taking extreme measures at times, getting a flip phone.

我们正不择手段地朝着这个方向前进。

We're getting there by whatever means necessary.

你知道吗？

You know?

这在我们当前的文化中已经变得如此重要。

It's that much of a priority for us as a culture right now.

我认为这是件美好的事。

And I think that's a beautiful thing.

然而，我认为在现实中，情况可能没那么完美，没那么理想。

However, I do think in reality, it might not be so perfect, so idyllic.

对吧？

Right?

这听起来很棒，但我有一些担忧。

This sounds amazing, but I have some concerns.

我的意思是，有两件事正在同时发生。

I mean, I think two things are happening at once.

确实有一部分人参与这种数字极简主义潮流，是出于必要，希望改善自己的生活。

There's actually a portion of people participating in this sort of digital minimalism trend that are doing it out of necessity, wanting to better themselves in their life.

我也认为有一部分人参与这种行为是因为它是一种潮流。

And I also think there's a portion of people participating in this because it's a trend.

我认为我们之所以如此清楚地意识到每个人都在这么做，恰恰是因为这些行为被发布到了网上，这真是颇具讽刺意味。

And I think the reason why we're so aware that everybody is doing this, right, is because it's being posted online, ironically.

我从智能手机换成了翻盖手机，但他们却在社交媒体上发帖炫耀自己换了手机。

I switched from, you know, a smartphone to a flip phone, but then they're, like, posting about it on social media that they did that.

你明白我的意思吗？

Do you see what I'm saying?

或者，去参与一些离线活动，然后又在社交媒体上发帖，这难道不是完全违背了初衷吗？

Or, like, getting into offline activities and then posting that on social media, which doesn't that just defeat the whole purpose?

这让我心里警铃大作，我觉得参与这一潮流的相当一部分人，只是在追随一个纯粹的潮流。

So that rings alarm bells in my head where I'm like, I I think a decent portion of people participating in this trend are just participating in literally a trend.

那些本应最真实、最纯粹的东西，反而自己变成了潮流。

Things that are supposed to be as authentic, as pure as can be have become trends in themselves.

比如，拥有个人风格这个概念，现在已经变成了一种潮流。

For example, the concept of having personal style has become a trend.

而且，一些微趋势已经形成，这些趋势被看作是个人风格，但其实只是潮流。

And sort of there have the micro trends have formed that are perceived as having personal style, but they're actually just trends.

个人风格这个概念已经变成了一种潮流，以至于你现在能认出那些正在追随这种‘拥有个人风格’潮流的人。

The concept of having personal style has become a trend to the point where now you can recognize someone who is following this trend of having personal style.

据我观察，这主要是那种古怪的极致繁复风格，比如堆叠很多单品，包上挂满各种小饰品。

It's it's mainly from what I've viewed as being funky sort of maximalism, almost like layering a bunch of stuff, having a bunch of charms hanging off your bag.

你知道，这被看作是个人风格，但其实这只是一个潮流。

You know, that's perceived as personal style, but that's actually just a trend.

天啊。

Oh my god.

这太复杂了。

It's so complicated.

数字极简主义也是如此，本应是完全不发任何内容。

Same thing goes, though, for like, digital minimalism is supposed to be not posting anything at all.

但人们却在发帖宣扬自己是个数字极简主义者。

But then people are posting about the fact that they're a digital minimalist.

如果你在网上发帖，你怎么能算是数字极简主义者呢？

It's like, how can you be a digital minimalist if you're posting online?

我不是想当数字极简主义的警察，但我只是在质疑这个运动的合理性，因为这难道不也只是一种潮流吗？

Now, I'm not trying to be the digital minimalism police, but I'm just questioning the validity of the movement in a way because it's like, is this just a trend too?

把互联网从这件事里剔除掉。

Take the Internet out of this.

这是否只是一种让你在同龄人面前显得很酷、很离线的潮流？

Is this just a trend that makes you seem cool and offline to your peers?

比如，你一边走路一边用iPod刷屏，这就能成为聊天的开场白。

Like, you're walking around scrolling on your iPod, that's a conversation starter.

别人会说：等等，你还用iPod？

People are gonna be like, wait, you have an iPod?

如果你走路时拿着翻盖手机，边走边打电话，人们会说：不会吧。

If you're walking around with your flip phone, talking on your flip phone, people are gonna be like, no way.

这太酷了。

That's so cool.

他们太离线了。

They're so offline.

他们太模拟了。

They're so analog.

尽管我不会说翻盖手机或iPod就一定是模拟设备。

Even though I wouldn't say a flip phone or an iPod is necessarily analog.

那算是更进一步了。

That's one step above.

但确实，有多少这种行为只是为了在同龄人面前显得很酷、很离线呢？

But, yeah, like, how much of this is sort of to seem cool to our peers, to seem offline to our peers?

因为现实是，科技，尤其是智能手机中的科技，实际上非常有用。

Because the reality is technology, especially the technology in smartphones, is actually so helpful.

我不明白，为什么要把一部功能完好的iPhone换成翻盖手机。

I don't see the point in taking a perfectly good iPhone and getting a flip phone.

就我个人而言，这对我来说毫无意义。

Personally, it doesn't make sense to me.

我觉得你可以直接把iPhone上所有有害的应用删掉，然后继续用你那部好好的iPhone。

I think you can just delete all of the toxic apps off of your iPhone, and then use your perfectly good iPhone.

这看起来像是一个极端的措施。

It's it seems like an extreme measure.

我们大多数人用的都是iPhone。

We all have the iPhone for the most part.

如果你不是为了外观，为什么要换到翻盖手机呢？

Why are you switching to the flip phone if not for aesthetics?

如果你不是为了表达某种态度，为什么要换到翻盖手机呢？

Why are you switching to the flip phone if not to, like, make a statement?

但同时，为什么要把自己的生活搞得这么麻烦呢？

But also too, why make your life that much harder?

听我说。

Listen.

我不是说我就对。

I'm not saying I'm right.

我只是在提问。

I'm just asking questions.

我只是在陈述一个观点。

I'm just stating an argument.

你知道的。

You know?

智能手机可以舒适地发短信，轻松打电话，还有各种设置，比如当你在没有信号但有Wi-Fi的地方时，可以开启Wi-Fi通话。

A smartphone, being able to text comfortably, being able to call easily, having settings, like, so that if you're somewhere where you don't have reception, but you have Wi Fi, you can turn on Wi Fi calling.

这些都是一些了不起的技术进步，我认为我们应该加以利用，因为它们实际上并不有害。

Like, all of these things are amazing advances in technology that I think we should take advantage of because they're not actually toxic.

它们改善了我们的生活，增强了我们沟通的能力，甚至在某些时候保障了我们的安全。

They're benefiting our lives and our ability to communicate and keep ourselves even safe at times.

地图功能，能够随时在手机上使用GPS导航，这是一项了不起的技术。

Maps, being able to map and and have a GPS in your phone at all times, that's an amazing piece of technology.

对不起。

I'm sorry.

我不需要当英雄，然后打印出MapQuest地图。

I don't need to be the hero and print out MapQuest.

我很好。

I'm good.

我很好。

I'm good.

我不需要做那种事。

I don't need to do that.

我为什么要那样做？

Why would I do that?

能够一边赶路一边，比如，如果我真的需要，就能回复邮件，或者随时随地工作。

Being able to, like, be on the on the run and be able to, like, answer an email if I really need to or, you know, work on the go.

对一些人来说，这并不吸引人。

Like, to some people, that's not appealing.

这可不是工作与生活的平衡。

It it's not work life balance.

但我喜欢在做其他事情的同时完成工作，因为这样我就能去美甲，同时在做美甲的时候还能工作。

But I like to be able to get work done while I'm doing something else because it actually allows me to go get my nails done, but then be working while I'm getting my nails done.

你懂我的意思吧？

You know what I mean?

多任务处理。

Multitask.

我很欣赏这一点。

And I appreciate that.

所以，听我说。

So, I mean, listen.

这就是我不买翻盖手机的原因，因为我并不认为那是解决办法。

This is why I'm not getting a flip phone because I don't necessarily believe that that's the answer.

我觉得很多人现在都会买翻盖手机，用一阵子后就会厌倦，然后扔掉，最终反而造成浪费。

I think a lot of people are gonna get flip phones now, and do that for a little bit, and then get sick of it, and then throw them away, and then it was ultimately wasteful.

但你知道吗？

But you know what?

如果这一切都是为了在互联网上建立健康的界限，我不会责怪任何人。

If it's all on the journey to healthy boundaries with the Internet, I will not shame anyone.

我只是对这种趋势的某些方面提出质疑。

I'm just questioning some elements of this trend.

同样的情况也适用于iPod。

And the same thing goes for, like, the iPod.

对吧？

Right?

你已经有一部智能手机了。

It's like but you already have a smartphone.

我认为你可以把音乐下载到智能手机上。

You can download music to your smartphone, I think.

难道不可以吗？

Can't you?

我猜你是可以的。

I would imagine you can.

你知道，还有iTunes。

You know, there's still iTunes.

对吧？

Right?

我不确定。

I don't know.

iTunes还存在吗？

Does iTunes even still exist?

我真的不知道。

I actually don't know.

我从来没查过。

I've never checked.

我打算用手机查一下。

I'm going on my phone to check.

你能吗？

Can you?

哦，这个应用，能用吗？

Oh, the app, does it work?

哦，不行。

Oh, no.

嗯，可以。

Yeah.

你可以的。

You can.

嗯。

Yeah.

你可以上iTunes购买东西。

You can go on iTunes and buy stuff.

那为什么还需要iPod呢？

So like, why do you need an iPod?

对我来说，这感觉像是在作秀，但有些人真的很喜欢，他们觉得这能帮助他们更深入地感受音乐。

See, to me it feels performative, but some people really love it, and they find that it like helps them connect to their music more.

你知道吗？

And you know what?

我猜它确实会这样。

I imagine it would do that.

我只是觉得，我认为存在一个真正的折中方案，那才是长期的解决办法，那就是：别下载社交媒体应用。

I just think, I think that there's a happy medium that actually is going to be a long term solution, which is like, don't download social media apps.

干脆别把它们放在手机里。

Just don't have them on your phone.

如果你不喜欢被工作短信或邮件轰炸，就把手机设为勿扰模式。

Turn your phone on do not disturb if you don't like being bombarded by work texts or emails.

嗯。

Yeah.

关闭你的邮件通知。

Turn off your email notifications.

就像，我不知道。

Like, I don't know.

我认为存在一些方法，可以在利用现代科技的同时取得平衡。

I think that there's ways to do it where you can balance taking advantage of modern technology.

这些方法实际上帮助我探索真实的世界。

That actually helps me explore the real world.

我的手机、我的智能手机，以一种更亲密的方式帮助我真正地融入现实世界。

There are ways that my phone, my smartphone, helps me actually exist in the real world in a more intimate way.

比如，我这种人，如果我在某个地方，可能是因为有预约，之后有空闲时间，如果没有手机查找附近的老字号商店或咖啡馆，我可能会直接回家。

Like, I'm the type of person where if I was maybe in an area, perhaps because I had an appointment, and then afterwards I had free time, if I didn't have my phone to look up, Oh, vintage shops in my area, or coffee shops in my area, I'd probably just go home.

因为我不知道该去哪儿。

Because they'd like, I don't know where to go.

我理解这种对智能手机的抵触情绪。

I understand this feeling of smartphone rebellion.

我明白。

I get it.

我也理解人类希望向他人展示自己某种形象的渴望，无论这种展示是在线上，还是在现实生活中，比如戴着耳机、拿着翻盖手机走在街上。

And I also understand the desire as human beings to want to project a version of ourselves to people, whether that's online or that's in real life, walking around with your iPod in your flip phone.

我懂。

I get it.

我懂。

I get it.

我并不评判。

And I'm not judging.

但我质疑，在我们如此痴迷于他人如何看待我们的时代，这种做法是否合理。

But I just question its validity in a time where we're so obsessed with how we're perceived by others.

我认为我们一直以来可能都是这样。

I think we probably always have been that way.

我认为这是人性，但我觉得在当今，这几乎已经变成了一种艺术。

I think it's human nature, but I think it's like almost become an art form for us at this point.

我个人在生活中曾经历过几个阶段，那时我极度热衷于为他人塑造自己的个性。

I personally have gone through phases in my life where I've been obsessed with curating my personality for everyone else's consumption.

直到今天，我仍然在某些方面，尤其是时尚上，会以特定方式呈现自己，因为我希望被他人以某种方式看待。

I still, to this day, in certain ways, especially with fashion, think for me, present myself in a certain way because I wanna be perceived a certain way.

我不知道。

I don't know.

我认为极端措施往往很有吸引力，但通常难以持久。

I think extreme measures tend to be appealing, but they don't tend to last.

但也许我错了，也许对某些人来说，这真的会坚持下来，成为一种新的生活方式。

But maybe I'm wrong, and maybe for some people it'll really stick, and it'll become a new lifestyle.

也许在某个时刻，我们会达到40%的人使用翻盖手机的地步。

And maybe at a certain point, we'll get to a point where it's like 40% of people have flip phones.

谁知道呢？

Like, who knows?

我想象的更多是那种叛逆的、有艺术气质的孩子，他们可能根本就没怎么刷过手机。

I imagine more of a rebel, more of the artsy sort of kids who maybe never even really were scrolling that much to begin with.

他们也许根本就没有严重的网络成瘾，但就是那种喜欢反抗类型的孩子。

They maybe didn't even have that bad of an internet addiction, but it's like the type of kid to rebel.

你知道的？

You know?

这感觉更像是那些并没有真正患上网络成瘾问题的人，而不是真正有这个问题的人。

That's what it feels like more so than somebody who actually has an issue with Internet addiction.

我不认为这些人有那么上瘾。

Don't think I think those people are so addicted.

他们不可能从使用带有谷歌地图或苹果地图的iPhone，直接转用翻盖手机。

There's no way they're gonna go from having their iPhone with Google Maps or Apple Maps to going to having a flip phone.

你明白我的意思吧？

Like, you know what I'm saying?

我这里有点刻板印象了，但我只是想理清这一切。

I'm stereotyping here, but I'm just trying to make sense of it all.

好吧。

Okay.

继续。

Moving on.

这场对话的另一个部分是关于算法如何破坏个性。

Another part of this conversation is about how the algorithm is ruining individuality.

当我发现这首歌在Spotify上时，我注意到了这一点。

And I noticed it when I found this song on Spotify.

我被推荐了这首歌，而它的播放量非常少，对吧？

I got fed this song, and it had very few streams, right?

它成了我最喜爱的歌曲。

And it became my favorite song.

我觉得自己很特别，因为我觉得是我发现了这首歌。

I felt special because I was like, I found this song.

这是我发现的歌，没多少人在听。

This is a song I found, and not a lot of people are listening to it.

我觉得我发掘了一颗宝藏。

And I feel like I discovered this gem.

在我爱上这首歌一个月后，我去Instagram上发现，一个我认识的人用了这首歌做背景音乐。

I go on Instagram a month after falling in love with this song to find that someone that I know used this song on their Instagram.

我当时想：等等。

And I was like, wait.

他们也知道这首歌？

They know this song too?

然后又发生了同样的事。

And then that happened again.

我当时想，这到底是怎么回事？

And I was like, what's going on here?

我当时觉得我找到了两首隐藏的宝藏歌曲。

I was like, I really thought I found two hidden gems.

现在，巧合的是，我认识的人也开始发现这些音乐。

And now, coincidentally, people that I know are finding that music.

我当时以为自己很特别，结果并不是。

And I was like, I thought I was unique for this, and I'm not.

现在，这整个事情就像一个我不现在想深究的兔子洞。

Now, this is a whole rabbit hole that I'm not in the mood to go down right now.

这背后有太多问题值得追问了。

It's like there's so many questions to ask.

算法会不会知道我们认识，所以给我们推送同样的音乐？

Does somehow the algorithm know that we know each other and they're feeding us the same music?

我只是和这个人有相同的音乐品味吗？

Do I just have the same music taste as this person?

也许这是一种特定的音乐品味，巧合的是，由于可用的音乐有限，我们恰好发现了同样的东西。

Maybe it's a particular music taste, and coincidentally, we got served the same music because there's only so much music out there, and it's like we just have discovered the same things.

在过去互联网出现之前，我们可能根本不会知道这一点，所以我们现在只是看到了以前无法察觉的重叠。

Maybe we wouldn't have known that in the past prior to the internet, so we're just seeing, you know, overlap that we wouldn't have seen before.

这整个事情太复杂了。

Like, it's a whole thing.

我光是想想就觉得精疲力尽了。

I don't even I'm I'm honestly exhausted just thinking about it.

这在我心里种下了一颗种子。

This sort of planted a seed in my head.

然后在我研究这一集的过程中，我发现这正是讨论中的一个重要部分。

And then as I was researching this episode, I saw that this was a big part of the conversation.

似乎问题在于，我们都在消费相同病毒式内容，而这些内容遵循相同的病毒式模式，这正在使娱乐领域的文化趋于同质化。

It seems to be that the issue is we're all consuming the same viral content that follows the same viral formulas, which is homogenizing culture in this sector of our entertainment.

我们在社交媒体上消费的娱乐内容非常单一。

The entertainment that we consume on social media is very homogenous.

一个话题会走红，然后我们很快发现，整个信息流都在讨论这个话题。

A topic will go viral, and then next thing we know, whole feeds are about that topic.

一首歌会走红，然后我们很快发现，每个TikTok都在用这首歌。

A song will go viral, and then next thing we know, every TikTok is using that song.

这正把我们推向一个所有人在不断消费相同内容、谈论相同事物的境地。

It's leading us to this point where we're all just consuming the same content about the same stuff all the time.

但除此之外，当我们不消费大规模病毒式内容时，即使我们在消费更个性化的推荐内容，我们仍然依赖算法来推送我们的兴趣。

But beyond that, when we're not consuming mass viral content, even when we're consuming more curated content for us, we rely on the algorithm to feed our interests to us.

新音乐、新时尚潮流、新的兴趣话题。

New music, new clothing trends, new topics to be interested in.

我们中的许多人不再自己做研究，不再去图书馆拿起一本时尚书籍，翻阅它，试图找出哪些风格真正符合我们，哪些不符合。

A lot of us are not doing the research for ourselves anymore, going to the library and picking up a fashion book and you know, looking through it and trying to figure out what feels like us and what doesn't.

或者去图书馆，我干嘛要提图书馆呢？

Or going to the library and why am I talking about the library?

但你知道，去图书馆，走在书架间，面对这么多不同主题的选择，不得不问自己究竟对什么感兴趣。

But, you know, going to the library and walking through the aisles and having all of these options of all these different topics and having to ask ourselves what we're interested in.

这一切都是被推送给我们。

It's being fed to us.

我认为主要问题是我们的兴趣被推送给了我们。

I think the main issue is our interests being fed to us.

比如，我们以为自己有独特的个人风格之类的，但真正细想一下，我的Pinterest比我还了解我。

Like, we think that we have our own sense of personal style and this and that, but it's like when you really break it down, my Pinterest knows me.

那是一个算法。

That's an algorithm.

它在向我推送更多它认为我会喜欢的东西。

That's feeding me more things that they think I'll like.

YouTube Shorts也在向我推送它认为我会喜欢的内容。

YouTube Shorts is feeding me content that they think I'd like.

我的YouTube首页正在向我推送他们认为我会喜欢的内容。

My YouTube homepage is feeding me things that they think I'd like.

它在替我做决定，而不是让我自己走出去，选择我真正感兴趣的东西。

It's feeding me instead of me having to go out there and make decisions, choose what I'm interested in.

但我要说，自媒体诞生以来，它一直都在使文化趋于同质化。

But I will say though that the media has always, since its inception, homogenized culture.

我认为，在互联网出现之前，当只有电视和寥寥几本时尚杂志可供选择时，这种同质化程度甚至更高。

I would say probably even more so prior to the Internet when it was just television, and there were only a handful of stations, and there was only a handful of fashion magazines that you could pick clothes from.

那种感觉更加同质化。

That feels even more homogenized.

我反而认为，我们可能拥有更强的个体意识，因为你可以在互联网上深入任何小众领域，算法会捕捉到你的偏好，并开始向你推送更多相关内容。

I actually think, if anything, we probably have a stronger sense of individuality because you can dig into any niche on the internet, and your algorithm will pick up on it and start feeding you more of that.

我认为，我们现在比以往任何时候都更容易接触到不同的风格、审美和音乐。

I think we have more access than ever to different styles and aesthetics and music.

我觉得现在，听好了。

And I feel like now I mean, listen.

我出生的时候，七八十年代已经过去了。

I wasn't alive during, like, the seventies, the eighties.

但我想象现在有更多细分领域。

But I would imagine that now there's more niches.

比如，你更有可能就时尚、音乐或电影进行一场有趣的对话，因为尽管仍有一些东西主导着时代潮流，但深入某个小众领域变得容易多了。

Like, you're more likely to have an interesting conversation about fashion or music or movies because even though there's still things that take over the zeitgeist, it's so much easier to dig into a niche.

你可以打开Spotify，找到一个你喜欢的艺术家，然后顺着推荐一路探索，从一个艺术家到另一个，再下一个，最终发现一些真正属于你自己的独特内容。

You can go on Spotify, find an artist you like, and go down a rabbit hole, listen to a recommended artist from there, from there, from there, and then you find something that's really unique to you.

我想象以前要找到这些要难得多。

That was much harder before, I would imagine.

拥有独特的风格或更小众的风格现在也变得更加被广泛接受。

It's also become more widely accepted to have a unique sense of style or a more niche sense of style.

因为我们已经在互联网上接触了如此多不同的审美和风格，我们中的许多人更有勇气做真实的自己。

Now that we've been exposed to so many different aesthetics and stuff like that on the internet, a lot of us feel more emboldened to just be ourselves.

所以我不确定。

So I don't know.

我认为算法推送内容是一把双刃剑。

I I think the algorithm feeding us stuff is a double edged sword.

对吧？

Right?

一方面，它可能给我们一种虚假的个性感。

On one hand, it might be sort of giving us a false sense of individuality.

但我也说不准。

But also, I don't know.

我不知道。

I don't know.

关于这一点，我真的不知道。

I just don't know about this one.

也许在互联网出现之前，你会以一种符合你内心的方式参与大众文化，而要找到真正的自我，你必须走出去寻找；而现在，这些东西却被直接送到了你面前。

Perhaps prior to the Internet, you'd participate in mass culture in ways that felt true to you, and then in order to find your individual self, you had to go out there into the world and seek it, whereas now it's being fed to us.

而当你最终走出去寻找时，你必然会通过亲身经历——试穿衣服、阅读书籍、做出选择——来塑造只属于你自己的个性，这不可避免地会让人形成更独特的一系列特质和兴趣。

And when inevitably, when you go out and you seek it, you're gonna develop your personality in a way that only you can because you're out there in the world figuring shit out, trying on clothes, reading books, and you're having to make those decisions, is inevitably going to create a more unique combination of traits and interests in a person.

而算法向你推送那些你可能感兴趣的刻板内容，这制造了一种虚假的个性感。

Whereas in algorithms feeding you stereotypical things that you would be interested in, which is creating a false sense of individuality.

你以为自己很独特，但实际上，你只是在消费和那些和你兴趣相同的人一样的内容。

You think you're unique, but really, it's just like you're just being fed the same kind of content that everybody else that's interested in the stuff that you're interested in is consuming.

但我感觉我们每个人都比这复杂得多。

But I feel like we're all more complicated than that.

我只是不确定这是否真的在发生，但确实有人持这种观点。

I just don't know that that's really what's happening, but that's the opinion of some.

我觉得我们的兴趣总是有上限的。

I feel like there's always a ceiling to our interests.

无论你是在Pinterest上滑动，还是在图书馆里，图书馆里的书只有那么多，Pinterest上的图钉也只有那么多。

Whether you're scrolling on Pinterest or you're in the library, there's only so many books in the library, there's only so many pins on Pinterest.

即使你在图书馆，也总会有一些摆在显眼位置的书，让你在花几个小时在书架间寻找之前就被吸引。

And even if you're at the library, there's always going to be books on display that you might be drawn to before you're walking the aisles for hours and hours trying to find something.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I'm saying?

我认为算法正在毁掉个性吗？

Do I think that the algorithm is ruining individuality?

我实际上可能会说不。

I actually might argue no.

我认为它可能让我们比我们都只消费大众媒体时更加个性化。

I actually think it might be making us more individual than when we all were just consuming mass media.

我不知道。

I don't know.

但这是我的观点。

That's my opinion, though.

你们都知道我反对互联网。

You know you all know that I'm against the Internet.

或者不是反对互联网，但你们都知道我对互联网的负面情绪。

Or not against the Internet, but you all know my my negative feelings towards the Internet.

我已多次表达过这些观点，但我并不认同这种说法。

I've expressed them time and time again, but I don't resonate with this.

我只是就是不。

I just I just don't.

你觉得进入现实世界、在现实中做事总是更好的吗？

Do I think that you're always better off going into the real world and doing things in the real world?

是的。

Yes.

但我真的很喜欢用互联网寻找时尚、音乐和灵感。

However, I really enjoy using the Internet to find fashion, music, ideas.

我喜欢这样。

I enjoy it.

而且我并不认为这一定是负面的。

And I actually don't think that that's necessarily negative.

我认为这是你在互联网上能做的最积极的事情之一。

I think it's one of the most positive things you can do on the Internet.

你知道吗？

You know?

我通过在Spotify上深挖推荐，发现了一些我根本不可能接触到的音乐。

I've discovered music that I never would have discovered going down rabbit holes on Spotify.

我这么说并不是因为这是个Spotify播客。

I'm not just saying that because this is a Spotify podcast.

这确实是事实。

It's genuinely true.

好吧。

Okay.

接下来，我们聊聊在线约会，因为这是对话的一部分。

Next, let's discuss online dating because this is a part of the conversation.

我从未使用过任何约会应用。

Now I've never been on a dating app.

我不能使用约会应用，因为我是个公众人物。

I can't go on a dating app because I'm a public figure.

我可以试试像Raya这样的应用。

I could go on like, there's, one Raya.

我不会去用那个。

I'm not going on that.

我挺好的。

I'm good.

我只是没有，我从来没试过。

I just don't I I've never.

如果我不是公众人物，我会注册一个Hinge。

If I wasn't a public figure, I would make a hinge.

去他的。

Fuck it.

当然。

Sure.

这就是我们所处的时代。

This is this is the day and age that we live in.

我会注册一个Hinge，而且很可能玩得很开心。

I'd I'd make a hinge, and I'd probably have a lot of fun doing it.

你知道的。

You know?

但因为我是个公众人物，所以我不能。

But because I'm a public figure, I can't.

如果我去使用那些专门为公众人物设计的约会应用，比如Raya，那就太奇怪了。

And it's, like, weird if I were to go on one of the more, oh, this is for public figures to date, like Raya.

我不一定想要那种经过精心策划的约会体验。

It's like, I don't necessarily want a curated dating experience like that.

这对我来说很奇怪。

That's weird to me.

所以我干脆不使用。

So I just stay off.

不过，我确实认识很多使用过约会应用的人。

However, I do know a lot of people who have been on dating apps.

我听过很多关于约会应用的讨论。

I've listened to a lot of the discourse around dating apps.

我意识到正在发生这样的讨论，但我无法基于个人经验发言。

I'm aware of the conversation happening, but I can't speak from experience.

人们所说的是，第一，与这么多人进行虚拟互动会让人精神疲惫，尤其是当连接尝试常常因被拒绝或他人不良行为而失败时。

Seems what the people are saying is that number one, it's mentally exhausting to virtually interact with so many people, especially when attempts to connect are often unsuccessful due to rejection or bad behavior from others.

约会应用上有很多不良行为。

Lots of bad behavior on dating apps.

人们谎报自己，互相消失，带着不良意图使用应用，比如只想发生一次性关系然后就消失。

People lying about themselves, ghosting one another, being on there with bad intentions, like just wanting to hook up once and then ghost.

与这么多不同的人进行闲聊，却大多毫无结果，这让人筋疲力尽。

It's exhausting to small talk with so many different people and have it lead to nowhere for the most part.

这真的令人沮丧和疲惫，很多人都感到厌倦了。

That's really disheartening and exhausting, and a lot of people are tired.

很多人还说，这种体验感觉非常肤浅和空洞。

A lot of people have also said that it feels very surface level and empty.

你知道，你只是根据照片和简短的信息来评判，把使用应用当成一种游戏，而不是感受到它根植于人性和连接——而这才是我认为我们内心深处真正渴望的。

You know, you're judging based on pictures and brief info and playing the app kinda like a game rather than it feeling rooted in humanity and connection, which is what I think we all deep down want.

我们想要浪漫。

We want romance.

我们想要爱情。

We want love.

我们想要一个好故事。

We want a good story.

我们不希望感觉像是，嗯，表面化的，哦，我觉得这个人很吸引人，我点了喜欢。

We don't want it to feel like, you know, in a, like, surface level, oh, I found this person hot, I hearted them.

然后我们去约会了，接着发生了关系，现在就开始交往了。

And then we went on a date, and then we had sex, and then now we're dating.

那难道不是应该有个铺垫吗？

It's like, oh, what about, like, a buildup?

我觉得很多人渴望这种渐进的过程，而这种感觉在约会应用上有时却丢失了。

What about you know, I think a lot of people crave that buildup, and that's sort of lost at times on dating apps.

大多数人在约会应用上都是为了约会，除非他们选择了‘想交朋友’这个选项，但谁会这么做呢？

Everyone on a dating app wants to date for the most part, unless they chose like, I wanna make friends option, but like who does that?

也许有些人。

Maybe some people.

但没错，感觉空洞。

But yeah, it feels empty.

对很多人来说，缺乏魔力。

It lacks magic for a lot of people.

尽管我认识了不少通过Hinge或其他应用成功约会的伴侣。

Even though I've met quite a few couples that I've met on Hinge and had success or other apps.

我想现在Hinge在年轻人中算是很酷的应用。

I guess Hinge is kind of the cool one right now with the kids.

但另一个问题是，人们会对这些应用上瘾，比如匹配成功的刺激、初期闲聊的兴奋、第一次约会的激动。

But the other issue too is that people become addicted to the apps, you know, whether it's the rush of matching with somebody, the rush of the small talk in the beginning, the rush of the first date.

人们会对通过应用约炮上瘾。

People become addicted to hooking up using the app.

最后但同样重要的是，这可能存在安全风险。

And last but not least, it can be a safety risk.

你到底在跟谁打交道？

Who the fuck are you dealing with?

你不知道自己在跟谁打交道。

You don't know who you're dealing with.

这很吓人。

It's scary.

约会应用有点吓人。

Dating apps can be a little scary.

我的意思是，我觉得很多约会应用已经改善了安全措施，我觉得这很棒。

I mean, they I I do think that a lot of the dating apps have improved their safety measures, and I think that's great.

而且，你知道，即使你当面见一个人，你也永远不知道自己会遇到谁。

And also too, you know, even when you meet somebody in person, it's you never know who you're meeting.

在这方面，总是有点吓人。

It is always kind of scary in that way.

但我认为在互联网上，存在一种被设局的风险。

But I think on the Internet, there's this risk for, like, a setup.

对吧？

Right?

至少当面见面时，你知道你正在和谁交谈。

At least in person, you you know who you're talking to.

你能从对方的气场中感受到一些信息。

You can get a gauge off of their energy.

但在电话里你做不到这一点。

You can't do that over the phone.

我不知道。

I don't know.

我个人对约会软件的看法是，如果你是一个想要寻找人生伴侣的人，我认为无论通过什么方式约会都是完全合理的。

My personal feeling on dating apps is that I think dating, if you're somebody who, you know, wants to find a life partner, I think dating by whatever means necessary is absolutely fair.

约会很难。

Dating is hard.

你是在大海捞针。

You're looking for a needle in a haystack.

而且去探索所有可能性——约会应用、面对面约会、通过朋友介绍，为什么不呢？

And to explore all options, dating apps, dating in person, mutual friends, why not?

我看不出有什么不好的。

I don't see why not.

我以前更反对使用约会应用。

I used to be more anti dating app.

我觉得它太交易化了。

I was like, it's so, like, transactional.

它就是这样那样的，现在很多人都这么说。

It's so this and that, and that's what a lot of people are saying nowadays.

但我认为对约会应用保持一种轻松、被动的态度很好，比如：你知道吗？

But I think having a casual, passive relationship with dating apps, being like, you know what?

我偶尔会上去看看，但并不依赖它，只是偶尔浏览一下。

I go on there every once in a while, and I'm not relying on it, but I just dabble here and there.

我觉得这样完全没问题，也很健康。

I think that's totally fine and healthy.

有界限的话，我觉得约会应用完全可以接受。

With boundaries, I think dating apps can be totally fine.

然而，与此同时，我认为走出家门始终是更好的选择。

However, at the same time, I think going out into the world is always going to be a better option.

所以只要现实世界和线上约会同时进行，我觉得没什么不可以。

And so I think as long as both are happening simultaneously, dating in the real world and online, I don't see why not.

但我认为，现实中的约会不可避免地会带来更好、更充实的体验，因为在现实生活中，即使没有和任何人建立联系，你也能享受真实世界的乐趣。

But I just think that dating in real life is inevitably going to be a better, more fulfilling experience because at least in real life, you have a fun time in the real world regardless of if you end up connecting with somebody.

而当你使用约会应用时，如果没有匹配到任何人，也没有安排任何约会，你会感到失望。

Whereas, when you're on a dating app, if you don't match with anybody, if you don't plan any dates with anybody, you get disappointed.

但当你外出时，至少你能获得一些超越单纯结识他人的东西。

Whereas if at least when you go out, you get something else out of it beyond just connecting with somebody.

懂吗？

Know?

比如，你去酒吧，可能不会遇到让你心动的人，但至少你能和别人社交。

Like, if you go to a bar, you might not, you know, meet someone you have a crush on, but at least you'll be social with people.

你会和人们一起笑。

You'll laugh with people.

你会和人们在一起。

You'll be around people.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

我不知道。

I don't know.

最近我单身，我的做法就是尽可能多地让自己融入世界，多外出，多待在有他人在的环境中，静待缘分到来。

As I've been single lately, my thing has been like, I'm just gonna put myself out there into the world as much as possible, be outside as much as possible, be in environments with other people as much as possible, and just see who comes my way.

你永远不知道会发生什么。

You never know.

相信我，真的会有人主动走近你。

And trust me, people do come your way.

当你抱着这样的念头：我要敞开心扉，主动融入世界，看看会发生什么，这感觉真的很奇妙。

It's so weird when you set that intention of like, I'm just gonna put myself out there into the world with an open energy and see what comes my way.

你最终会和那些你原本以为不会交谈的人聊天。

You end up talking to people you wouldn't expect that you'd talk to.

你可能会和那些你根本没想到会 flirt 的人有点暧昧。

You end up maybe having a little flirt with somebody you wouldn't expect to have had a little flirt with.

我认为，当涉及到约会时，这应该是首要任务，而约会应用或许只是额外的一点新鲜感。

I think that should always be the number one priority when it comes to dating, and dating apps can be something it's maybe like a little novelty on the side.

但问题是，在线约会已经成了人们主要的约会方式，我认为这正是导致如此多不快乐、沮丧和气馁的原因。

But the problem is online dating has become people's main form of dating, and I think that's why it's caused so much unhappiness and frustration and discouragement.

好吧。

Okay.

今天我们还要谈一下这个对话的最后一点，因为说实话，我的脑子都要炸了。

And the last piece of this conversation that we're gonna touch on today, because I I'm honestly like, my brain's exploding.

这个话题太大了，我在这期节目中几乎只是浅尝辄止。

It's such a big conversation, and I barely even scratched the surface with this episode.

如今，不上线反而成了一种身份象征。

It's become a status symbol to be offline.

这对我来说很有趣，因为我觉得，如今要成为一种身份象征，难道不必须在线上发布吗？

Now this is interesting to me because I feel like in order for something to be a status symbol nowadays, doesn't it have to be posted online?

但这种观点认为，成功的人不需要在网上传播或分享自己的所作所为。

But the argument is that people who are successful don't need to promote themselves or share what they're doing online.

而且，富人有更多的钱去体验生活，而不是一直刷手机。

And on top of that, wealthy people have more money for experiences that they can experience rather than going on their phone.

我完全可以理解这一点。

I could see this for sure.

我的意思是，是的，我觉得是这样。

I mean, I think yes.

然而，我不禁怀疑，是否通过偶尔发布一些活动来显得自己不在线，反而更像一种身份象征——发得少一点，但发一些展示‘嘿’的活动。

However, I I have to wonder if it's more of a status symbol to seem offline by posting about activities every once in a while, maybe posting less, but posting about activities that show, hey.

看。

Look.

我不在线。

I'm offline.

这是种身份象征吗，还是真的只是删除了这些应用？

Is that the status symbol, or is it genuinely, like, deleting the apps?

我不这么认为，因为我觉得如今要成为一种身份象征，必须在互联网上以非常鲜明的方式让别人知道。

I don't think it's that because I think nowadays in order for something to be a status symbol, other people need to know about it in a really vivid way on the Internet.

否则，这根本就不存在。

Otherwise, it's not even happening.

你明白我的意思吗？

Do you know what I'm saying?

我认为真正 offline 并不是一种身份象征，因为没人会知道。

I think actually being offline isn't a status symbol because then no one knows about it.

那它怎么算得上是身份象征呢？

So how is it a status symbol?

如今，身份很大程度上由我们的线上存在、我们的数字化身决定，就像我爸爸说的，我们的个人资料展现了我们是什么样的人。

Nowadays, status is very heavily dictated by our online presence, our our digital avatar, again, as my dad calls it, like our profiles, what it shows about us.

那么，真正 offline 算得上是身份象征吗？

So is truly being offline a status symbol?

我不会说完全如此。

I wouldn't say all the way.

我还是认为，你必须稍微发布一些你正在做的事情，才能让它成为一种身份象征。

I still think you have to post a little bit about what you're doing in order for it to be a status symbol.

但你必须发布的内容要显得你离线了。

But you have to post like you're offline.

发布一些你在现实世界中从事的爱好和活动。

Post about hobbies and activities that you're doing in the real world.

我对这一点的疑问是，在某种程度上，我能理解人们的看法，即‘看，我在度假’是一种身份象征。

My challenge with this is, to an extent, I see where people are coming from with this, that it's sort of a status symbol to be like, Look, I'm on vacation.

我在徒步旅行。

I'm on a hike.

我在做这个做那个。

I'm doing this and that.

我刚去参加了表亲的婚礼，却只在Instagram上每两个月发一次帖。

I just went to my cousin's wedding and posting on Instagram, like, every two months.

不过，我并不真的认为这是一种地位的象征。

I don't really think of it as a status symbol, though.

而且，因为我真的觉得这是任何人都能做到的事。

And and, like because I really think it's something anyone can do.

我觉得这段对话有点奇怪，因为人们说，远离手机、不靠手机娱乐是昂贵的之类的事情。

I feel like this segment of the conversation is weird because people are saying that, like, being off of your phone, being entertained off your phone is, like, expensive and stuff like that.

我不认同。

I don't agree.

在现实生活中，不靠手机就能做的免费事情太多了。

There are so many things that you can do in the real world off your phone for free.

也许是我漏掉了什么。

And maybe I'm missing something.

我依稀记得有人说过，要拥有精力去培养爱好或参与工作之外的活动，这是一种特权，也是一种地位的象征。

I vaguely think I heard somebody talking about, you know, how in order to have the energy to have, say, hobbies or to participate in activities outside of work, you know, that's a privilege, and that's a status symbol.

这个说法听起来更合理。

And that rings more true.

你知道吗，我觉得归根结底，那些工作很努力的人真的非常疲惫，他们只是想刷刷手机，做点不用动脑的事，这完全可以理解。

You know, I think at the end of the day, people who work really hard are really exhausted, and they just want to scroll on their phone and do something mindless, understandably so.

我每天下班后也是这种感觉。

I feel that way at the end of the day.

有些人会说，我的工作可能是世界上最轻松的。

And, you know, some people would argue I have the easiest job in the world.

我每天下班后也觉得天啊，我只想瘫着不动。

And I feel that way at the end of my workday where I'm like, Holy fuck, I just want to rot.

我听过一些人说，如果你非常成功，就不必那么辛苦地工作。

I've heard some people argue that it's like, Well, if you're very successful, you don't have to work as hard.

因此，你可以用多余的时间去参与爱好之类的事情。

Thus, you know, you can spend your extra time participating in hobbies and things like that.

所以我不确定。

So I don't know.

我糊涂了。

I'm lost.

我对这一点感到困惑。

I'm lost on that.

为了总结本集内容，我将快速预测一下，我认为在这个突然之间我们不再像以前那样随意使用互联网的时刻，未来会发生什么。

To wrap up this episode, I have some rapid fire predictions of what I think is going to come of this moment in time where all of a sudden we're like, wait, we don't fuck with the Internet like we used to.

这是我个人认为事情将走向的方向，我已经开始观察到一些迹象。

This is where I personally think things are going, where I have sort of slightly started to observe things going.

这就是我的看法。

This is what I think.

快速列举。

Rapid fire.

开始吧。

Let's go.

第一，社交媒体平台将变得更像YouTube，大多数人只会消费内容，而不会自己发布。

Number one, social media platforms will become more like YouTube, where most people just consume content and don't actually post themselves.

预测第二，社交媒体的使用量将下降并达到某种平衡状态。

Prediction number two, social media usage will go down and reach an equilibrium of sorts.

我们多年来一直过度使用它，我认为我们会回归到一个更现实的水平，并且这种状态会持续一段时间。

We were using it so heavily for so many years, I think we are gonna come down to a more realistic level that will remain for a while.

我之前已经解释过了。

I explained that earlier.

我认为，并不是每个人都会像以前那样长期在线。

I think it'll be like not everyone's gonna be chronically online like it's been up until this point.

使用量会趋于平稳。

It'll level out.

第三，我认为相当一部分人会永久退出社交媒体，包括许多网红，但总会有一些内容创作者和内容消费者，只是数量可能减少。

Number three, I think a decent portion of people will quit social media for good, including a lot of influencers, but there will always be content creators and people consuming the content, just maybe less.

第四点预测，我认为iPod和翻盖手机的趋势仅仅是一个潮流，会很快消退。

Prediction number four, I think the iPod and flip phone trend is simply a trend and will die quickly.

人们会重新回到智能手机，但最理想的情况是，他们会删除那些有害的应用程序。

People will go back to their smartphones, but perhaps delete the toxic apps when they get back at best.

第五点预测，我认为如果人们对线下爱好 genuinely 感兴趣，他们会继续参与，这将是这一趋势的积极影响。

Prediction number five, I think people will continue to participate in offline hobbies if their interests are genuine, being a net positive with this trend.

但那些只是为了表现而这样做的人，一旦发帖不再流行，就会停止。

But those who are doing it in a performative way will stop once it's not trendy to post about it anymore.

预测第六点，我认为线下约会会再次变得流行。

Prediction number six, I think offline dating will become more popular again.

在第三空间闲逛，去咖啡馆，逛跳蚤市场，与陌生人聊天。

Hanging out in third spaces, going to cafes, shopping at, like, flea markets, chatting it up with random people.

我认为在未来几年里，这种做法会变得更加流行。

I think that's gonna be more popular in the years to come.

不过，我不认为夜生活会成为主流。

I don't think nightlife is the move, though.

我认为更像是咖啡文化、团体课程之类的活动。

I think it's more like cafe culture, group classes, things like that.

过去几年我一直在听说俱乐部关门，我总觉得不知为何，我们不再热衷于此了。

And I've just been hearing about clubs closing for the last few years, and I just feel like, for whatever reason, we're not into it anymore.

我还听说Z世代喝酒变少了。

Also been hearing about Gen Z not drinking as much.

这看起来根本就不是Z世代的风格。

It just seems like that's not Gen Z's vibe.

最后但同样重要的是，我认为会出现一股线下艺术的热潮，这些艺术带有神秘感，因为它们在社交媒体上几乎没有高质量的曝光。

And last but not least, I think there will be a surge in offline art that feels mysterious in the sense that they don't have a social media presence in very high quality.

独立乐队、独立电影和演员们会删除他们在Instagram上的所有帖子。

Indie bands, indie movies, actors will delete all of the posts off their Instagram.

我认为艺术界会出现一种趋势，让作品自己说话，让艺术家保持神秘感。

I think there'll be this movement in art towards letting the art speak for itself and having the artist be more mysterious.

我觉得这种风格和氛围将会增多。

I think there's gonna be an uptick in that sort of vibe and feel.

就这样了。

And that's it.

我真能一直聊这个，但已经一个多小时了。

I could really talk about this all day, but it's been already like an hour and a half.

我得闭嘴了。

Like, I have to shut the fuck up.

我真的很想知道这一切最终会走向何方，但我认为 overarching 的主题是我们正走在正确的道路上。

I'm really curious to see where this all goes, but I think the overarching theme is that I think we're going in the right direction.

我认为这种广泛的意识最终是积极的。

I think this mass awareness is ultimately a net positive.

我真的祈祷我们社会能够愈合。

And I really just pray for the healing of our society.

我觉得互联网把我们搞得一团糟。

Like, I think the Internet has fucked us up so bad.

它让我们所有人都变得更加不快乐、更加虚无、抑郁、焦虑和多疑。

And I think it's made us all far more unhappy and far more nihilistic and depressed and anxious and paranoid.

这很令人难过，真的非常非常难过。

And it's sad, and it's really, really sad.

我只是真心希望每个人都能再次享受真实的世界。

And I just truly I want everybody to enjoy the real world again.

也许在我们这一代人中，只要我们齐心协力，就能一起找到解决办法。

Maybe together or maybe in our lifetime, we can all figure it out together if we work together.

但与此同时，很多人在抖音商城买东西。

But in the meantime, a lot of people are buying stuff on TikTok shop.

你懂我的意思吧？

You know what I mean?

这就是我们现在所处的状况。

And that's where we're at.

我们走着瞧吧。

We'll see.

时间会证明一切。

Time will tell.

总之，希望你们都喜欢这一集。

Anyway, I hope you all enjoyed this episode.

我知道我没说出什么新东西。

I know I didn't say anything new.

我只是复述了我看到的对话，并简单表达了一下我的看法，但我希望你们还是喜欢了。

Like, I really just kind of regurgitated the conversation I've seen and given brief little bits of my opinion, but I hope that you enjoyed it anyway.

任何话题都行，每周四和周日更新新一期。

Anything goes, new episodes every Thursday and Sunday.

不过，实际上，下一期将是《任何话题都行》 indefinitely 的最后一期周日节目。

Although, actually, next Sunday is the last Sunday episode of Anything Goes indefinitely.

我将减少到每周只做一期，只在周四更新。

I'm going down to one a week, Thursdays only.

2026年，质量胜过数量。

Quality over quantity, 2026.

2026年，我想践行少即是多的理念，希望有更多时间制作互联网上的其他类型内容，而不仅仅是播客。

Think less is more in 2026, and I want more time to make different types of content for the Internet, not just the podcast.

我觉得每周做两期真的让我很难制作YouTube视频和其他内容。

I think doing two episodes a week has really made it hard for me to make YouTube videos, make other things.

因为我把太多时间都投入到了这个节目上，虽然我很享受这个过程，但我希望我能多元化发展。

It's because I just put so much time into this, which I love doing, but I think I want to diversify.

我会继续产出同样数量的内容，只是会分散在不同的平台上，所以不用担心。

There'll be the same amount of content from me just dispersed in different platforms, so have no fear.

但不管怎样，从新年伊始，新集数每周四更新。

But, anyway so new episodes every Thursday, I guess, starting in the New Year.

你可以在任何播客平台收听，社交媒体上关注 anything goes。

Available anywhere you stream podcasts, on social media at anything goes.

我在社交媒体上的账号是 Emma Chamberlain，我的咖啡品牌 Chamberlain Coffee 已经在全球和互联网上上线。

I'm on social media at Emma Chamberlain, and my coffee company is in the world and on the Internet at Chamberlain Coffee.

我爱你们所有人。

I love you all.

感谢你们每一个人，我几天后再和你们聊。

I appreciate you all, and I will talk to you in a few days.

另外，如果你是在发布当天听到这期节目的，圣诞快乐。

Also, if you listened to this the day it came out, Merry Christmas.

好吧。

Okay.

回头聊。

Talk to you later.

爱你，再见。

Love you, and bye.