托托·沃尔夫（梅赛德斯F1车队领队）

因为大家仰望我们，觉得我们从不脆弱。

Because people look up to us and they think we're not vulnerable.

我也有过觉得自己不够好的时刻。

I had at these moments where I felt inadequate.

以前有人跟我说过，我也有你拥有的东西，我也在受苦，但我依然成功了。

And I've had somebody telling me back in the day, I have what you have and I suffer, but I'm still successful.

要是早有人这么说，我会很有希望。

That would have given me a lot of hope.

有时候我真的看不到希望。

And I didn't have hope at times.

是啊，你十几岁的时候，这种事就会发生。

Yeah, in your teens, and this happens.

但爸妈分开，那跟——

But mom and dad separate, that was separate from Yeah, the

那跟公司失败是有关的。

that was related to the failure of the company.

我觉得我爸爸让我妈妈签了担保，她从我外公那儿拿了一栋公寓楼作为婚嫁的财产。

Think my dad made my mother sign some collateral and she got a house, like an apartment building from her dad for the marriage.

结果那栋楼没了，连带信用也毁了。

And that was gone, plus a credit.

那时候我爸爸已经病得很重，分不清对错了。

So that was already my father was very ill, didn't know anymore what was right and wrong.

然后她说，信任很难建立，可一旦没了，就再也回不来了。

And then she said, trust is very difficult to build, and it's gone.

所以他们就是那时候分开了。

So that's where they separated.

但说实话，我对他们的分开没什么负面回忆。

But I have no bad memory about the separation, to be honest.

他们俩从来不在一起吵架。

They never had a bad word with each other.

他们一直把那些事藏在我们看不见的地方。

They kept that away from us.

我当时主要看到母亲为了养活我们而苦苦挣扎，而父亲已经一分钱都没有了。

It was more just seeing my mother struggle to make a living for us and my father not having had any money anymore.

情况糟到有人上门来找他， basically 就是让他把口袋掏空。

And that went so bad that I saw people coming to him asking basically to empty your pockets.

那段时间真不容易。

That was tough for Yeah.

年轻的时候。

Young

你有兄弟姐妹吗？

Do you have brothers and sisters?

我有个妹妹，不过她也不年轻了。

I have a young sister, but she's not so young anymore.

她比我小两岁。

She's two years my junior.

我想到一件事，这个问题有点难回答——我父亲在八月被确诊为小细胞肺癌，到次年一月一号就去世了。

The thing I thought of, and this is a tricky question, but my dad got diagnosed with small cell carcinoma in August and he was dead on January 1.

就持续了三个月左右。

So was like a three month thing.

然后我继父得了前列腺癌，拖了两年半到三年。

And then my stepdad got prostate cancer and that was like a two and a half, three year thing.

看着亲人患上重病，却不知道什么时候会走，这种压力让我觉得，陪我爸走完最后一程反而更容易接受。

And I'll say the stress of having a loved one have a condition that you're not sure when the end is, I found the experience with my dad much easier to process.

就是，事情发生了，没办法。

It's like, okay, this is happening.

那就抓紧剩下的几个月，好好在一起。

Let's spend the next few months together.

我把所有安排都清空了。

I'll clear my schedule.

我陪你去所有检查。

I'll take you to your appointments.

但我真的很难受。

I find it very hard.

你爸这个病拖了七年，你就会想，我们现在到底走到哪一步了？

And the notion that your dad had this condition for seven years, you're just kinda like, where are we at?

接下来会发生什么？

What's gonna happen?

这种感觉真的让人特别焦虑。

That feels very stressful.

等事情结束时，你反而松了口气，这时候还会感到内疚。

And then a guilt when you feel relieved it's over.

没错。

Exactly.

首先，听到你爸爸和继父的事，我很难过。

First of all, sorry to hear about your dad and your stepdad.

那种内疚是因为，那时候他的生活已经痛苦不堪，我都看在眼里。

A terrible guilt because it was at the point that his life was miserable and I saw it.

然后你和他之间的联系慢慢断了，尊重也渐渐没了。

And then you lose the connection, you lose respect.

到了他去世的时候，回头想想，对他来说或许更好，但我觉得对我们所有人来说也是解脱。

And it came to a point that when he died, I think today in hindsight it was better for him, but I thought it's better for all of us.

那种内疚感特别强烈，直到最近几年我才慢慢想明白。

And the guilty feeling that you have was so bad, and it's something that I only processed in the last few years.

你那时候还是个孩子。

Well, you're a kid.

是啊，你当时根本没法理性分析那些情绪，但对我来说，最折磨人的是，我竟然觉得爸爸走了反而更好。

Yeah, so you can't in a way analyse the feelings that maybe you could because But you were an for me, that guilty feeling of thinking it's better for my dad to be gone.

你其实也希望他能早点解脱。

Well, you kinda wish it be over for them.

我和我妹妹都亲眼看到了。

And myself and my sister, saw.

我觉得我们和他之间关系特别近。

I think also we were so close.

我记得守在他病床前的时候，根本认不出那个曾经充满个性、让人敬佩的父亲了。

I remember being on his deathbed and obviously you're not seeing your father anymore, like the strong personality that people talk about.

作为一个15岁和13岁的孩子，如果是我自己，我不确定我会怎么看待这些记忆。

These memories for a 15 year old and a 13 year old sister, I'm not sure I would do the same with me as a parent.

是的。

Yeah.

你其实要哀悼两次。

Well, you're mourning twice.

第一次是确诊的时候，但其实他们还没走，人就已经完全变了。

First you mourn them with the diagnosis, but they're dead essentially before they're dead because they changed completely.

对。

Yes.

这真的很难应对。

It's hard to deal with.

他们早就已经不在了。

They've been gone for a while.

但对我来说，这反而是一种巨大的馈赠，因为我心里积压了太多怨恨。

But to me that was a huge gift because I had so much resentment.

我三岁的时候他们离婚了。

They got divorced when I was three.

他过得挺好的。

He had a great life.

我们生活得挺拮据的。

We lived kind of poorly.

我对他有很多看法。

I had a lot of judgment of him.

后来我看着他，突然意识到，没错，他从来就不是那种强势外放的男子汉。

And there was the moment where I looked at him and you're right, he was not the big, demonstrative alpha male.

他只是躺在床上的一个小男孩。

He was a little boy on a bed.

我心想，哦，原来他就像个孩子。

And I thought, oh yeah, he's like a little boy.

他一直都是个孩子。

And he's always been a little boy.

我到现在还是个孩子。

And I'm still a little boy.

你一辈子都摆脱不了那个孩子的自己。

And you never stop being a little boy.

看到他其实只是一个害怕的人，这种理解真的消解了我很多怨恨。

And it actually dissolves so much resentment to see he's just a human that's scared.

这说起来挺意外的，却是一种馈赠。

That was weirdly a gift.

是的，我觉得作为成年人，这确实是一种馈赠，但是

Yeah, I think as an adult, it's a gift, but

十五岁的时候可不是这样。

Not at 15.

十五岁的时候可不是这样。

Not at 15.

不，绝对不是。

No, no, no.

不，十五岁的时候不行。

No, not at 15.

小时候，确实有些记忆很难消化。

There was certainly memories that are hugely difficult to digest as a kid.

如我所说，我今年五十二了。

And as I said, I'm 52 today.

我觉得，自己真正处理好这些，大概就在这五年里。

I would say that I probably processed it in the last five years only.

现在回头看，我心里更平静了，也更踏实了。

That I look at it, I feel more calm and reassured in my own existence.

直到现在，我才真正接受了他多年后离世的事实，也接受了我母亲的缺席——她得赚钱养家，还得照顾自己、保护自己。

Only now I have found peace with him dying over so many years and also with my mother, because my mother wasn't present at all because she needed to earn the money and she needed to look after herself and protect herself.

所以我和妹妹在家时，有个波兰保姆，这倒帮我们提升了语言能力，但她并不真正陪在我们身边。

So my sister and I were at home, we had Polish housekeeper, that was good for the language actually, but she wasn't there.

现在她七十九岁了，身体不太好。

Now she's 79, she's not well.

她跟我说，我不是个好妈妈。

And she says to me, I wasn't a good mother.

我对她说，我原谅你，因为我明白在家面对那些痛苦有多难。

And I say, I forgive you because I know how difficult it was to be at home and see the suffering.

但归根结底，你也要为今天的我负责。

But at the end, you're also responsible of how I am today.

小时候，我宁愿没有经历过这些创伤。

So I'd rather, as a kid, not having trauma.

可我都52岁了，如果你问我，是愿意做今天的我，还是做个一无所知的傻瓜，我选做今天的我。

But I'm 52 years old, if you ask me whether I'd rather be who I am today or a white elephant, I'd rather be who I am today.

我觉得，你得跟自己的过去达成一种奇怪的和解——如果你足够幸运，最终活成了自己满意的样子，就像我和你这样，有我深爱的孩子，有个好妻子，那我会说，算了吧，我一点都不想改什么，因为我就是想留在现在这个地方。

I think that's the weird piece you have to come to with your past, which is if you're lucky enough to end up somewhere you're happy with, as you have and I have, and I have kids I love so much and have a great wife, I go, well fuck, I wouldn't tinker with anything because I still wanna end up right here.

所以我得承认，那些事确实伤人，但它们发生了。

So I gotta understand and process that it was hurtful and these things happen.

同时，我也对这些经历怀有一种奇特的感激。

And also have a weird gratitude for it

而且我也挺认同的。

and like it too.

这正是我想的，也是我的感受。

Exactly my thoughts and my feelings.

五年前是什么促使你这么做的？

Did something prompt five years ago?

为什么偏偏是五年前，你开始直面这些问题？

Why five years ago did you start confronting that?

我觉得那会儿我光顾着忙生活中的各种事了。

I think that I was so busy in my life to get things done.

我总是对失败感到焦虑。

And I always had that anxiety about failure.

我开玩笑说，我是个总看到杯子一半空的人。

I said it jokingly that I'm a half empty glass person.

我总是盯着深渊，总觉得一切明天就可能结束。

I always stare into the abyss, everything could be finished tomorrow.

赛车可能结束，胜利也会过去，钱也可能一夜之间花光。

The racing could be ending, the winning ends, the money could be all gone.

我妻子离开了我，跟了理发师。

My wife leaves me for the hairdresser.

我的意思是，这些事我如今再也不信了。

I mean, all of that, I don't believe that anymore, by the way.

会是她的健身教练，不是她本人。

It'll be her trainer, not her

是健身教练。

hair.

会是那个健身教练，没错。

It will be the fitness trainer, yeah.

危险始终存在。

There is always dangers.

但就在最近几年，我开始想，如果今天一切就结束了，我也能坦然离开。

And only in the last few years, I thought if everything was to end today, I could go with a good feeling.

你就在这儿。

You're there.

没错。

Absolutely.

如果我是你，一开始当赛车手，后来转行做投资人和首席执行官，还取得了这么大的成功——

If I were you and I set out on this journey first as a race car driver, then pivoting and becoming an investor principal and a CEO and having all this success.

五年前，你早就连续第六次拿下车队冠军了。

Five years ago, you would have been on your sixth constructors championship in a row.

如果我是你，我会想：我们该做的都做到了。

And if I were you, I would go, wow, we did absolutely everything we wanted to do.

那份喜悦去哪儿了？

Where's the elation?

为什么我还是觉得不完整？

Why aren't I whole?

为什么我就是得不到满足？

Why don't I feel content?

我怎么还是这么害怕？

Why am I still scared?

你说得对，但我已经放下了那种焦虑。

You're absolutely right, but I lost that anxiety.

我觉得我和孩子们的关系特别好。

I'm thinking I have a wonderful relationship with my children.

就像你提到你的关系一样，我拥有我所能想象的最好的妻子。

Like you said about your relationships, I have the best wife that I can imagine.

我已经做到了我想做的事。

I have done what I wanted to do.

所以，如果今天就要离开人世，我也能心安了。

And that's why I would have peace if I would be dying today.

那样的话，某种程度上也算是命中注定。

And that would have then in a way been destiny.

但随之而来的，也有一种风险——那就是满足感。

But then there is a certain risk that's coming with that too, contentment.

这可不太好。

And that's not good.

挺吓人的，对吧？

It's scary, right?

不，我不想要那样。

No, I don't want that.

因为你没了动力。

Because you have no fuel.

我不至于说没动力，但确实有个时候，我的怒气就没了。

I wouldn't say no fuel, but there is this moment where my anger is gone.

所以我得主动调整自己，问问自己：我的目标是什么？

So I need to proactively condition myself and say, what are my objectives?

2020年音乐停了的时候，像我这样喜欢音乐、又讨厌空闲的人，那一年心理状态特别差。

And in 2020, when the music stopped, for someone that likes the music and doesn't like time, I had a year that I was really bad mentally.

我得好好想想：我真想再当投资人，去考察一堆公司，进董事会，接触那些让我感兴趣的企业和技术，享受这种多样性吗？

And I had to reflect, do I want to go back as an investor and look at multiple companies and be on the board, see businesses and technology that interest me and the variety of it?

还是说我该把自己定位成一个赛车手，一个只擅长这一件事的人？

Or do I want to consider as a racing person, as basically a one trick pony?

我最终意识到，我的定位就在商业、金融，以及对计时器的热爱和对计时器的诚实之间。

And I came to the conclusion that I found my niche between business, finance, and the love for the stopwatch and the honesty for the stopwatch.

就在那一刻，我有意识地、理性地决定，还有更多事情可做，还有更多目标可以达成，还有更多挑战可以征服。

And at that moment, I really proactively intellectually decided there is more to do and more to win and more to conquer.

但这种动力不再源于对成功的焦虑。

But it is more with an emotion that is less anxious about success.

不过，那份驱动力并没有消失，只是换了一种方式表达。

But the drive isn't gone, it's channeled in a different way.

好的，明白了。

Okay, great.

我最大的恐惧是，过去四十九年，我所有的动力都来自一个念头：你懒惰、你一无是处、你是个失败者、你是个耻辱。

So this is my huge fear, is that my motivation for the last forty nine years has been you're lazy, you're a piece of shit, you're a failure, you're an embarrassment.

所以我要站起来做事，来证明这个说法是错的。

And now get up and do things to disprove that theory.

所以我最大的担忧是，我能不能从快乐和爱的角度去写作？

And so the great fear of mine is can I write from a place of happiness and love?

我能不能从快乐和爱出发去行动，而不是出于恐惧？

Can I act from a place of happiness and love and not fear?

我能不能在不靠恐惧驱动的情况下赢得成功？

Could I win from a place that's not fear based?

这需要一份信念的跨越。

And that's a leap of faith.

我现在大概走了一半吧。

I'm like midway there.

我还达不到你那样的状态。

I'm not where you're at.

我还不完全相信，如果没有一点执念的折磨，我真能有动力。

I don't fully trust that without some bit of cancerous rumination, I'll actually be motivated.

但你还有两年时间，可以慢慢放下这个心结。

But you have two years to, you know, get over this.

那两年对我来说特别重要。

And those two years were important for me.

但我觉得，那种冒名顶替综合症，还有你提到的那些特质，都已经缓和多了。

But it's that I think imposter syndrome and all of the characteristic you mentioned, they have softened.

它们没完全消失，只是被调整得更健康了。

They haven't completely gone away, but they're conditioned in a healthier way.

很多人不愿意去看心理医生，就是怕会失去自己的能力。

There's many people that don't wanna go to a psychiatrist because they fear that they're losing their ability.

艺术家、作家，那些很有创造力的人，都不太愿意去处理自己的心理问题。

Artists, writers, people that have a lot of creativity that don't wanna go to sort out their mental problems.

他们不想吃药，觉得那是激发创意的重要动力。

They don't wanna go on medication because they believe this is a huge fuel of their creativity.

我们平时真正花时间去思考自己的目标，到底有多频繁呢？

Because how often do we actually spend time in thinking about our objectives?

我们团队里常打个比方，就像舞池和阳台之间的区别。

And the analogy we are having in the team is being between the dance floor and the balcony.

我们大部分时间都在舞池里，忙着行动。

We are on the dance floor, most of the time that is in action.

什么时候我们才会走到阳台上，俯瞰舞池里发生的事，好好想想自己的长期策略呢？

When are we going actually on the balcony and looking down what's happening on the dance floor and thinking about what's my long term strategy here?

我需要重新调整的是什么？

What is it that I believe I should recalibrate?

很多科技领域的专家都会在日程里专门留出这样的时间。

A lot of these different tech gurus have this built in moment in their schedule.

有些人每个月腾出四天，有些人留一周，也有人每年专门抽出一个月。

For some people it's like four days a month or it's a week a month or it's a month a year.

比尔·盖茨有个读书周。

Bill Gates is reading week.

对。

Yeah.

他把一堆书拿进小木屋，让自己停下来，不再盯着眼前的事，转而获得更开阔的视角。

Takes that stack of books and he sits in his little cabin and he allows himself to stop staring at the thing in front of him and get that kind of wider perspective.

这根本做不到。

You can't really do that.

那你打算怎么做到呢？

Or how would you do that?

你一年有二十三场比赛，赛季结束后反而更忙，因为明年新车又要出来了。

Because you have 23 races, and then in the off season, it's maybe even more work because you have the next iteration of the car coming out next year.

那你到底怎么挤出时间来呢？

So how on earth do you build in that time?

我是主动安排的。

So I do it actively.

比如我每年坐飞机六百个小时，不知为啥，我不爱看电影，也不爱听音乐，就喜欢看书。

For me, for example, flying in an aeroplane and I do six hundred hours a year, for whatever reason, I don't enjoy watching movies, I don't enjoy listening to music, I like reading.

看书能让我思考这些问题。

And the reading gives me a stimulation of thinking about those things.

我就盯着天花板，早上做这件事。

So I stay at the ceiling, I do it in the mornings.

我每天早上都会留点时间给自己，躺在床上多躺二十分钟，正好能做这些事。

I take my time in the mornings for myself and lying in bed for another twenty minutes allows me to do these things.

其实这些活动都是在自动运行的。

So it's actually activities that run-in a way on autopilot.

我不知道你有没有注意过，这背后是有科学解释的。

And I don't know if you know that, there is a scientific explanation to that.

为什么你最好的点子总是在洗澡、上厕所、开车刮胡子的时候冒出来？

Why do you have your best ideas in the shower, in the toilets, while shaving in the car?

因为你的大脑其实一直在运转，只是处于自动模式，你只是在做这些例行的事。

Because your brain is actually active, but it's on autopilot, you're doing all of that.

所以，那些灵感迸发的时刻就是这么来的。

So that is why we have those creative moments.

对我而言，躺着发呆也好，坐飞机也好，都是这样。

And for me it's also lying in bed or it's flying in an aeroplane.

我会反复想这些问题，然后把它们记下来。

I think a lot about those things and I write them down.

这说得通。

That makes sense.

我也有同感。

And I relate to that.

我需要一定的分心，就像你说的，这时候潜意识在开车。

I need a certain level of distraction where you're right, the subconscious is driving the car.

我其实没在开车。

I'm not actually driving the car.

事情就这么自然发生了。

It's just happening.

这种程度的活动正好让我能自由遐想，因为我手头正做着点什么。

And that's the perfect amount of activity that allows me to wander in my head because I'm doing something.

所以我反而能放松下来，任思绪飘荡。

So I'm kind of liberated to do that.

但有意思的是，每个人都不一样，比如当我需要投入体力的活动时——你不会去健身房，而是做很多

But we're all different, interestingly, because when I'm having an activity that is where I need to put some force in, for example, you're not going to the gym, you're doing lots

太无聊了。

of bad.

谢谢你留意到这一点。

Thank you for noticing.

或者去散步，完成一万步。

Or going for a walk to do my 10,000 steps.

对我来说，这种活动本身就是一种冥想。

For me, this is like a meditation in the activity itself.

我根本没法想别的事情。

I'm not capable of thinking about anything else.

但苏西每天走两万步，或者去健身房，回来时总能记下一大堆想法。

But Susie, when she goes on her 20,000 steps a day, or in the gym, she comes back with lots of stuff that she writes down.

所以我们每个人都不一样。

So we're all different.

确实如此。

True.

你觉得对失败的恐惧这么强烈，是因为你看到你爸爸什么都没了嗎？

Do you think the fear of failure being so intense is because you saw your dad lose everything?

顺便说一下，我爸爸也是一样，什么都没了。

My dad lost everything too, by the way.

我爸爸呢，

My dad,

以前很有钱，后来就穷了。

like, was rich, then poor.

他去世前一共申请过三次破产。

Filed bankruptcy three times before he died.

明白了。

Okay.

那时候根本没什么稳定性可言。

There wasn't a consistency there.

你眼睁睁看着一切都没了。

You saw everything go away.

所以我能理解，这让你觉得任何东西都可能在瞬间消失。

So I can imagine that makes you feel like anything can go away at any moment.

确实如此。

For sure.

这是一道伤疤。

That is a scar.

那简直是一场完美风暴，他们当时想让我上私立学校，维也纳的一所法语学校，所以我见到了那些富家孩子。

That was like a perfect storm because they tried to have me in a private school, in a French school in Vienna, so I saw the rich kids.

你不是在贫困环境中长大的孩子，周围一切都再正常不过，而是亲眼看着那些富家孩子去度假，过着奢华的生活。

And you're not a poor kid in a poor environment where everything is pretty normal, but you're seeing the rich kids and you're seeing them going on their fancy holidays.

我记得清清楚楚，那是圣诞节假期，上学的最后一天。

I remember exactly that moment, Christmas holidays, last day of school.

我有个朋友，坐上他爸爸的车，三个人一起去滑雪了。

And there is this friend of mine that got into the car with one of the dads, and they went off skiing, the three of them together.

而我却没有。

And I don't.

那一刻的痛苦，至今仍深深印在我心里。

The suffering of that very moment is still so much in me.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道

Do

那个该死的车库到底是怎么回事吗？

you know what that fucking garage is all about?

我就是想要那辆很酷的BMX自行车。

Is that I wanted the cool BMX bike.

别的孩子都有那种很酷的BMX自行车。

Kids had the cool BMX bike.

什么GT、Haro、Hutch，我都没有。

The GT, the Horo, the Hutch, and I didn't.

这是一种补偿心理。

Compensation mechanism.

是的

Yeah.

我就是想要那辆该死的自行车，就是这辆。

And I wanted that fucking bicycle, and this is the bicycle.

我到现在还在疗愈这辆自行车带来的伤痛。

I'm still healing the wound of the bicycle.

我明白。

I know.

但问题是，你真得到了这辆自行车，它却根本没法用。

But the problem is you get the bicycle, and then it doesn't work.

没错。

No.

就是这样。

Exactly.

根本没法用。

Doesn't

用不了。

work.

这就是幻想。或者你去

It's the fantasy Or you go

滑雪，结果根本没法滑。

skiing, and it doesn't work.

然后你就会想，好吧，

Then you're like, well,

那接下来呢？

now what?

对你有用吗？

Did it work for you?

对我来说百分之百有效。

It 100% does for me.

哇。

Wow.

我真羡慕你。

I'm jealous of that.

对我而言，这百分百管用。

It 100% does for me.

你会觉得，这事我总算搞定了。

You're like, I fixed that.

没有。

No.

没完全解决，但我心里一直有几件事想完成。

Not completely fixed, but I know there was these things I wanted to tick.

奥地利有个挺不错的滑雪地，大家都去，价格也贵得吓人。

There is this nice skiing place in Austria where everybody went and it was very expensive.

其实是个小村子，也没什么特别的。

It's actually a small village and there's nothing particular.

但能在那里有个地方，是我一直以来的心愿，现在我终于有了。

But having a place there was a life target and I have now.

其实，可能还有更好的地方。

Actually, there's probably better places.

还有就是折腾车和自行车那阵子。

Then also going through this car and bike motion.

我记得我爸只有一辆特别老的宝马，都十年了，还磕磕碰碰的，但他没钱修。

I remember my dad only had a very, very old BMW, ten years old, and it was damaged, but he didn't have the money to actually repair it.

有个朋友他爸有一辆，你记得不，奔驰AMG 560 SEC。

And a friend's dad had, I don't know if you remember, a Mercedes AMG five sixty SEC.

哦，天哪。

Oh, baby.

这可太对你的胃口了，我一看你车库就明白了。

That's exactly down your line, know when I look at your garage.

这种车根本没法自己修，不过你接着说。

The problem with those cars is impossible to work on, but continue.

但我就是喜欢它们。

I love them.

那是《迈阿密风云》。

That's Miami Vice.

那是《迈阿密风云》。

That's Miami Vice.

低趴空气动力套件。

Ground effects.

没错。

Exactly.

当我

When I

我给苏西和孩子们看这些车的时候，跟他们说，这就是我的梦想。

showed these cars to Suzie to my children and say, that was my dream.

他们说，真的吗？

They say, seriously?

当然是真的。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

保时捷涡轮增压车型，你知道的，三升排量的那些早期款。

A Porsche Turbo, you know, the three liters, the early ones.

那经典的911呢，Ruf版？

How about a rough nine eleven, r u f f?

Ruf。

Ruf.

那是家德国公司。

It's a German company.

明白了。

Okay.

不好意思。

Sorry.

Ruf。

Ruf.

那时候这事儿没那么出名。

Wasn't a big thing back in the day.

那时候这种改装厂根本不存在，但那种黑漆漆的911 Turbo三升排量、福特变速箱的车，人称‘寡妇制造机’。

You did these tuners didn't exist in that form, but black nine eleven Turbo three liter Ford gearbox, the Widowmaker.

930。

Nine thirty.

930。

Nine thirty.

那会儿是——

That was

正是斜鼻子款。

exactly Slant nose.

哦，天哪。

Oh, baby.

我觉得，如果你在一些关键的成长节点上没有父亲在身边，就会特别依赖外在的东西来安慰自己，证明自己正在变成一个男人。

I do think when you don't have a dad around for some of these pivotal rites of passage, you have to go get a lot of these exterior things to comfort yourself that you are becoming a man.

你有没有类似的感受？就是关于男子气概这部分？

Do you relate to any of that stuff, the masculinity portion?

没有，男子气概这部分跟我没什么关系。

No, the masculinity portion doesn't relate to me.

我爸爸生病的时候，我突然觉得得为妹妹扛起很多责任，只想快点长大成人。

When my father got ill, I had that feeling, I took so much responsibility on for my sister that I wanted to be an adult.

我想掌控自己的生活。

I wanted to be in control of my life.

我不想再因为父母而感到丢脸了。

I didn't want to be embarrassed for my parents anymore.

那种要当家里顶梁柱的心态，我小时候就形成了。

And that attitude of being the man in the house happened when I was very young.

所以我从来没为此纠结过。

So I never struggled with that.

更多是看到朋友父母那些成功的样子，让我有了想法。

It was more about the things that I saw from parents of my friends that were successful.

我想要达到的那种状态，比如收藏法拉利之类的。

This is what I wanted to achieve, like a Ferrari car collection, for example.

我今天最要好的一个朋友，我特别喜欢他，他爸是当地足球俱乐部的主席。

Or one of my closest friends today, I love him to bits, his dad was the president of the local football club.

每周一晚上有个特别火的体育节目，叫《Sporta Montag》，就是周一的体育聚焦。

There was this famous sports show on Monday evening, which was called Sporta Montag, which was spot on Monday.

那是黄金时段，只有最顶尖的人才能出现在那里。

And it was prime time and only the best people were there.

我记得他经常出现在节目里。

And I remember him being there.

我当时就想，有一天我也要上这个节目，因为那才叫成功。

And I thought one day I would like to be in this sports show because that means success.

真厉害。

Wow.

然后这些事真的发生了，你才会意识到它们有多美好，因为你心里会想：这简直不敢相信。

And then these things happen and you realise they are so nice because you kind of say to yourself, I can't believe it.

我现在就站在这里了。

I'm there now.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

真是个圆满的闭环。

Full circle.

圆满的闭环。

Full circle.

对你来说，这很管用。

And for you, it works.

对我而言，这也一样有效。

For me, that works.

是的。

Yeah.

那太好了。

That's great.

那确实很好。

That is great.

我觉得这种事还挺少见的。

I think that's kind of rare.

是吗？

Is it?

我觉得是。

I think so.

我不太清楚哪些是美国的特质，哪些是你的文化或者欧洲背景带来的，说实话我也说不准。

And I don't know what part is American and what part is your culture and being European, but I don't know.

在美国，你知道的，总是让你做这个、搞那个，要特别、要独特、要与众不同。

America, you know, it's like, do this, make this, be this, be special, be unique, be individual.

然后你做了这些事，结果感觉就是：哦，原来是这样。

And then you do those things and what you kinda feel like is, oh, yeah.

结果我做的所有事，反而让自己跟所有人都疏远了。

And all I've accomplished is I've kinda alienated myself from everyone.

这感觉并没有我当初想象的那么有趣。

It doesn't feel as fun as I thought it was going to feel like.

你开始怀疑这一切承诺到底值不值得。

You start questioning the whole promise of it.

但我很高兴，这些事没在你身上发生。

But I'm delighted that's not happening for you.

可能是因为，虽然你可能会觉得这很反直觉——毕竟我参加的是F1，但我从来没什么要超越别人的念头，等等，这话其实不对。

Maybe because, and you will think that's counterintuitive by being in Formula One, I have never felt, well, that's actually not true.

我原本想说，我从没想过要压过谁。

I wanted to say I've never felt surpassing people.

但我感受到的，是对那些辜负了我父亲的人的愤怒。

But what I felt was anger against all the people that let my dad down.

所以一开始，我就想着要让他们看看我的本事。

So at the beginning, it was like, I'm gonna show you.

他们那代人明显比我强，但这件事对我很重要。

And they were obviously generation above me, but that was important.

快说说，你是想给谁看？

Really quick, who were you gonna show?

是真有具体的人，还是只是个模糊的想法？

Was there a list of actual people or is this an idea of people?

不是模糊的，确实有那么几个人，他们不尊重我父亲。

No, there was a list of actual people that didn't respect my father.

但那是我职业生涯早期的事了。

But that was the early years of my professional life.

后来我慢慢意识到，其实我是在追求自己的标准。

When I started to think about it, I'm actually trying to meet my own expectations.

你知道吗？周一那个体育节目，其实反映的是我自己的期待。

And you know that sports show on Monday was my own expectations.

我不希望天天露面，因为我想证明我自己真的在那儿。

I didn't want to be on daily because I wanted to show that I'm there.

这纯粹是给我自己看的。直到今天，只要我没达成自己设定的目标，没取得成功，我就觉得自己辜负了自己。

It was only for me, and it is still today when I'm not having the success and not achieving the objectives that I set myself, that is where I feel humiliated towards myself.

有意思的是，别人根本不会让我有这种感觉。

Interestingly, not anybody else.

没错。

Right.

我一直在跟自己较劲，而不是跟别人比高低。

I'm in an absolute competition against myself, not relative competition to others.

我完全能理解这种感觉。

I completely relate to that.

正如我常说的，你永远不该拿自己跟别人比较。

Yeah, as I say, you shouldn't ever compare yourself to someone else.

你唯一该比的，是过去的自己。

You should only compare yourself to previous versions of yourself.

我从来没敢幻想过的一些事，现在居然都实现了。

The things I didn't fantasize about that I've gotten.

我得到了很多东西，连想都不敢想。

Because I've gotten a lot of stuff I wasn't even bold enough to fantasize about.

这些特别有意思，因为我根本没设想过会怎样感受，会多喜欢自己，或者自尊心会达到什么程度。

And those things are really fun because I didn't have a fantasy and an expectation of how I was going to feel and how much I was gonna like myself or what kind of self esteem I would have.

我压根没在这些幻想上构建过任何期待。

I didn't have anything built on top of this fantasy.

所以那些出乎意料发生的事，我才真正能享受得起来。

So the things that have happened that were unexpected, now those I really can enjoy.

我绝不是在淡化自己这份奢侈生活带来的快乐。

I don't want to downplay how much joy I do get out of this crazy privileged existence I've had.

这很好，你都五十岁了，还在实实在在地享受生活、体验和物质，可很多人到这年纪都没做到。

And it's good because you're 50 years old and you're actively enjoying things, experiences, material things, and there is many people who don't.

对他们来说，永远是下一个目标、下一个目标，最后却发现，根本不是当初想象的样子。

And for them, it's just the next thing and the next thing, and they come to the conclusion that it's actually not what they expected.

然后你就陷入了一个恶性循环：只要买得起，就不断买更多，还去寻找别的关系，结果婚姻反而搞砸了，因为你已经看到了更好的选择——我差点说成‘金发女郎’了。

And then you're in a vicious circle of if you can afford to buy more and more and more and seek other relationships, suddenly your marriage is not good anymore because you've seen the next, I was about to say blonde.

但显然，那不是我想表达的意思。

But obviously, that's not what I meant.

这说法太老套了。

It's so cliche.

五英尺高的印度公主？

Five foot tall Indian princess?

对。

Of

当然。

course.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

不。

No.

我明白你的意思。

I know what you mean.

下一个重磅消息。

Next bombshell.

认真的，留个特别有魅力的胡子。

Seriously, have a very attractive beard.

哦，谢谢。

Oh, thank you.

这真是

That's

天哪

so Oh my

啊。

god.

我真羡慕

I'm so jealous

你啊。

of so you.

真好。

Nice.

太棒了。

That's so nice.

但总想着下一件事。

But always the next thing.

别人家的草总是更绿，可那不是我拥有的。

Shine The grass is always green on the other side, and that's not what I have.

是的。

Yeah.

敬请期待更多《扶手椅专家》节目，如果你敢的话。

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

我现在有些问题，想问问你是怎么走到今天这一步的。

Now I do have some questions about how you got to where you ended up.

我对你的一些经历不太清楚，觉得挺好奇的。

There's a couple gaps in what I can learn about you that are curious to me.

比如你18岁那年，去看了一场赛车比赛。

Like, one is you go at 18 and you see Formula One or you go to some racing.

不是F1。

No, not Formula One.

明白了。

Okay.

但你确实去看了某场赛车。

But you go to some racing event.

然后你就想，我也要干这个。

And you go, I want to do this.

不过18岁才想干这个，确实有点晚了。

Now eighteen is too late for you to do that.

多得很。

Much.

这个我们都知道。

We know this.

你六岁就该开始开卡丁车了。

You had to be karting at six.

那你没开过卡丁车，怎么最后跑上了福特方程式？

So how on earth did you end up racing Formula Ford without the karting background?

我其实对赛车没什么兴趣。

So I didn't have an interest for motorsport.

我感兴趣的是普通家用车。

I had an interest in road cars.

因为过去的经历，我第一辆车是大众甲壳虫，这让我挺失望的——毕竟我当时没钱。

Because of my past, it was quite disappointing to find out that my first car my motherboarded, obviously I didn't have any money, was a Volkswagen Beetle.

结果六个月后，车撞树上了，说实话，我当时挺失落的。

It ended against the tree six months later, and I will say I was disappointed.

你竟然真把这事儿实现了？

You manifested that?

我确实把这事儿实现了。

I manifested manifested that.

就是这个，没错。

That, yeah.

马力刚好够撞上树， barely 够用。

There's just enough horsepower to crash into a tree, barely enough.

维也纳森林里有一条著名的公路，叫霍亨大街。

So there is a famous road through the Viennese forest around the city, which is called the Hohenstrasse.

五六十到七十年代，那里举办过非常著名的赛事，因为路面是鹅卵石铺的。

And they had in the fifties, sixties, seventies, a very famous race there, because it's cobblestone.

一下雨，路面就特别难掌控。

And when it's wet, that starts to be tricky.

那条路就是我的赛道。

So that was my road.

大概有十公里长，弯道特别多，速度也很快。

It's about, I would say, 10 kilometers, very twisty, very fast.

我和朋友们开着甲壳虫在那条路上比赛。

And I raced with my friends there with the beetle.

有一天早上，下着雨，是个周六，我想着这天气太棒了，干脆开甲壳虫上土路试试，结果一冲出去就撞上树了。

And one day in the rain, I woke up a Saturday morning, thought it's raining, it's great, I'm gonna take the Beetle onto the dirt road, and bang off I went against the tree.

方向盘都撞断了。

The steering wheel even broke.

天哪。

My gosh.

真是吓人。

Wow.

那时候我们干过不少疯狂的事，比如开保时捷在一条直道上飙车，那条直道大概有一公里长，中间有个特别大的颠簸。

So that was crazy stuff, which we did back in the day, trended a Porsche and there was a straight with, I don't know, a kilometer with a huge bump in the middle.

我们每个人轮流开车，乘客坐在旁边，看谁能不刹车就冲到最快的速度，再赶紧踩刹车准备下一个弯道。

And each of us was trying with the others in the passenger seat of the maximum speed we could achieve before braking for the next corner.

天哪。

Oh my god.

时速差不多二百四十公里。

It's like two forty kilometers an hour.

哦。

Oh.

这也太疯狂了。

That's crazy.

不过回到你刚才的问题。

But back to your question.

我只想让你知道，我坐过很多次副驾驶座，而且

I just want you to know, I've been in a lot of those passenger seats and

我可受不了这个。

I hate it.

但小时候，我们几乎感觉不到危险。

But as a kid, you almost don't realise the risk.

你完全进入另一种状态了。

You're in another zone.

就像你提到你女儿，你希望她自己骑越野摩托，而不是坐在后座，跟一个爱炫耀的人一起出事。

It's like you talking about your daughter, you want her to ride a motocross bike rather than sitting on the back and crashing with somebody who wants to show off.

十六岁的小子。

16 year old

想在她面前表现自己。

trying to impress her.

是的，为了显得有男子气概。

Yeah, to be masculine.

男子气概，你知道的，他的男子气概成长之路。

Masculine, know, his masculinity journey.

对，没错。

Yeah, yeah.

就是这样。

Exactly.

对我来说，那个地方根本没在我考虑范围内。

For me it was, I didn't have the spot on my radar.

后来我去了德国的一条赛道，纽博格林。

And then I visited a track in Germany, the Nurburgring.

我开过，太有意思了。

I've driven it, so fun.

你在那儿创过纪录吗？

You have a record there?

我确实在那儿创过纪录。

I have a record there, yeah.

是那辆911 RS吗？

In a nine eleven RSS?

对，就是那辆特别夸张的911。

Yeah, it was the big fat nine eleven.

2009年？

2009?

对，是GT2 RS，或者当时那个赛车版本，总之搭载了最强的自然吸气引擎的那款。

Yes, GT2 RS, or whatever the racing version was, but the one with the most powerful engine, a naturally aspirated engine.

你还记得你当时的成绩吗？

Do you remember your time?

那是2003年7月，但赛道还不一样，还没铺新沥青，所以特别颠簸，也更危险。

It was a 07/2003, but the track was different because it wasn't the new asphalt, so it was much bumpier and riskier.

我记得成绩大概是7分05秒，但那真是疯狂又危险。

And that the record was, I think, seven zero five, but crazy dangerous.

真的没有任何地方能比得上。

There's nothing like it.

没错。

No.

真的没有任何地方能比得上。

There's nothing like it.

那时候我已经和尼基·劳达熟了，他当时在那儿有自己的F1车队。

And I was already befriended with Niki Lauda, who had his creation Formula one there.

所以他才出了事。

That's why he burned.

他还问，他为什么要这么做？

And he said, why did he do this?

他太蠢了，太危险了。

He's so stupid, so dangerous.

没人关心你在赛道中间干什么，我一向很务实。

Nobody cares what you're doing on the middle of the I was very pragmatic.

我当时正经历一场中年危机。

I was in a bit of a mid life crisis.

那是在一圈热身赛的时候。

And so that was on a preparation lap.

车子已经显老了，轮胎也快散架了。

The car was already feeling old, the tyres were falling apart.

于是我对自己说，这完全是外行的做法——明知道车有问题，还是想拼一把。

And then I said to myself, and that is the amateur approach, I'm gonna give it one try, whilst already knowing that the car had an issue.

就这一次，我快了十五秒。

And at one try, I was up fifteen seconds.

那成绩应该是六分四十左右，或者六分三十五。

So it would have been a six forty or six thirty five.

天哪。

Woah.

只要低于七分钟，就已经非常快了。

Anything sub seven is Is very fast.

现在的话，跑个六分二十左右就算不错了，但那是十五年前的事了。

Today, a good time is around six twenty or so, but that was fifteen years ago.

赛道也完全不一样了，我之前说过。

And the track is a completely different one, as I said before.

现在那些被加宽的路段，当年根本没这么宽。

Parts that are fled today were never fled back in the day.

车感觉怪怪的，我就想，算了，先把这一圈开完，结果轮胎爆了。

So the car felt odd, and I thought, I'm just gonna finish the lap, and then at a puncture.

哦。

Oh.

在最危险的那一段，就是那个下坡加大力度压缩的地方。

In the most dangerous part, you know, the foxhole where it's going down and there's a big compression.

每小时289公里，那相当于多少？

Two eighty nine kilometers an hour, which is how much?

2.10美元？

$2.10?

差不多175英里。

It's like 175.

只有这么点？

Really only?

每小时300公里就是每小时180英里。

300 kilometers is 180 miles an hour.

179。

179.

明白了，确实挺吓人的，不过你给说得轻描淡写了。

Got that Yeah, pretty fucking but you played it down.

不是一百七十五。

It's not one seventy five.

是一百七十，我高出四点。

It was one seventy I was up by four.

是一百七十四吗？

Is it one seventy four

是一百七十五。

by one seventy five.

我不记得当时高出多少百分比。

I don't know what percentage I was up.

不到百分之一。

That's less than 1%.

对。

Yeah.

但是是

But is

是一百七十九还是哇。

it one seventy nine straight or is it Wow.

一百左右很重要，你说得对。

One That's round 100 is important, you're right.

是零点二九。

It's point two nine.

你说得对。

So you're right.

所以一百八十九是，那就是

So 189 is So it's

太快了，还爆胎了。

too fast with a puncture.

对。

Yes.

右后胎爆了，车子撞上护栏，翻上了车顶，但没冲进树林里，真是幸运。

Right rear puncture went off into the guardrail, went onto the roof, didn't go into the forest, into the trees, which was lucky.

我滑行了二百五十米才停下来。

And I slid two fifty metres and stopped.

摄像机还在录着。

Camera is still on.

我正把车停住。

I'm stopping the car.

油箱都快见底了。

It was on fumes.

我关掉收音机，下车时还以为一切正常。

And I'm deplugging my radio and I'm getting out of the car and you think everything is normal.

后来他们发现我躺在护栏后面，戴着头盔，双手放着，仰面躺着，像在睡觉一样。

And then they found me behind the guardrail with the helmet and the hands on, lying on my back like I was sleeping.

我完全不记得发生了什么。

And I have no recollection

天啊，整个过程太惊险了。

of Oh the whole wow.

当时被冲击和肾上腺素推着，我自己从车里爬了出来。

So in the shock with the adrenaline, got myself out of the car.

没有脑震荡，真的没有。

No concussion, no.

严重的脑震荡。

A massive concussion.

哦，严重得很。

Oh massive.

他们发现我的时候，我已经昏迷了。

They found me there unconscious.

他们把我抬上救护车，往附近的医院送，还给我吸着氧气。

They put me in the ambulance and they were taking me to the local hospital there, oxygen on.

最让人担心的是，我脊椎疼，双腿也开始发麻。

And the worrying bit was that I had an ache in my spine and I started to feel tingling in my legs.