卡尼本周在两次重要演讲中说了什么？

它是怎么建造的？

How was it built?

如今，它仍是一个持久的谜团，让我们不禁追问：是谁来到这座宏伟的纪念碑？他们在这里做了什么？

Today, an enduring mystery that leaves us asking, who came to this vast monument, and what did they do here?

别问我。

Don't ask me.

我不知道。

I don't know.

我的意思是，你看，我知道它被设计成一个观测太阳运行和季节更替的地方。

I mean, look, I know it was designed to be a place to observe the course of the sun and the changing of the seasons.

当我们想象那些古代人聚集在圣地庆祝至日的情景时，我们只能停下来想，那一定非常无聊。

And when we reflect on those ancient people gathered at that sacred place to mark the solstice, we can only pause and think, that must have been so boring.

我们也知道这些石头来自威尔士和苏格兰附近的采石场，但几乎没有任何石头能放进古代人的口袋里，所以我们不知道它们是如何被运来的。

We also know the stones came from a nearby quarry from Wales and from Scotland, but almost none of the stones could have fit in ancient pockets, so we don't know how they got there.

但我们现在知道它们是怎么没被运来的的——不是靠冰川。

But we now know how they didn't get there, glaciers.

科学家分析了巨石阵周围河流中的数百颗锆石晶体。

Scientists analyzed hundreds of zircon crystals from the rivers around Stonehenge.

这些晶体比盐粒还小，但别把它们误认为是盐，因为它们没有任何味道。

These crystals are smaller than grains of salt, but don't mistake them for salt because they don't taste like anything.

无论如何，如果冰川曾将这些巨石搬运到巨石阵遗址，那么这些锆石晶体中应该会留下它们被拖行经过的地表证据，但实际并没有发现。

Anyway, if glaciers had deposited the giant stones at the Stonehenge site, some evidence of the land they'd been dragged across would have shown up in these zircon crystals, but none did.

因此，冰川并未参与其中。

So glaciers were not involved.

现在最令人惊叹的是，人们总是问：是谁建造了它？

Now what's most impressive about this is that people are always asking Who built it?

它有什么用途？

What's it for?

他们为什么选择在这里建造？

Why did they build it here?

它是如何建造的？

How was it built?

它被用来做什么？

What was it used for?

他们在这里做了什么？

And what did they do here?

但没人问，是冰川做了什么吗？

But no one asks, did glaciers do something?

所以，这一次有人提出了一个关于巨石阵的原创问题，这真是一个了不起的成就。

So for once, someone asked an original Stonehenge question, a genuinely monumental achievement.

我们现在要休息一小会儿。

We're going to take a short break now.

回来后，我们会讲到格拉迪斯·韦斯特，她的数学工作使GPS成为可能，她的朋友会告诉我们这位被严重忽视的杰出数学家。

When we return a strong sense of direction, we will remember Gladys West whose math made GPS possible, her friend tells us about the brilliant mathematician whose work went largely overlooked.

你简直不敢相信自己的耳朵。

And you won't believe your ears.

你最好别不信。

You better not.

在他那场冗长而散乱的达沃斯演讲中多次把冰岛和格陵兰搞混后，唐纳德·特朗普的新闻秘书坚持说，没有。

After he repeatedly mixed up Iceland and Greenland in his long and rambling Davos speech, Donald Trump's press secretary insists, no.

他没有搞混。

He didn't.

敬请期待。

Stay tuned.

我是克里斯·霍顿。

I'm Chris Houghton.

我是尼尔·库尔卡尔。

And I'm Neil Kurksal.

您喜爱的所有CBC播客现在都已在YouTube上线。

All your favorite CBC Podcasts are now available on YouTube.

最精彩、屡获殊荣的真罪案调查、幽默喜剧、生动的流行文化对话，以及更多音频节目，全部可在CBC播客YouTube频道收看。

The best and award winning true crime investigations, hilarious comedies, vibrant pop culture conversations, and even more audio series are all available on CBC Podcasts YouTube channel.

您还能找到独家视频首播、YouTube短视频，以及我们的主持人和制作人独家提供的幕后内容，这些在其他地方都找不到。

You'll also find exclusive video first episodes, YouTube shorts, and behind the scenes content from our hosts and producers that you can't find anywhere else.

所以，如果你经常通过YouTube收听播客，只需搜索‘CBC播客’并点击订阅，就不会错过任何最新更新。

So if YouTube is your go to source for podcasts, just search CBC Podcasts and hit subscribe, and you'll never miss the latest update.

又有三名记者的名字被添加到加沙遇害记者名单中。

Three more names have been added to the list of journalists who've been killed in Gaza.

昨天，穆罕默德·库什塔、阿纳斯·赫尼姆和阿卜杜勒·劳夫·沙特正在为埃及政府运营的救援组织的媒体部门工作时，他们的汽车遭到以色列空袭。

Yesterday, Mohammad Khushta, Anas Khhnem, and Abdul Rauf Shat were working for the media arm of a relief group run by the Egyptian government when their car was targeted by an Israeli airstrike.

以色列国防军发表声明称，其人员观察到‘数名嫌疑人’在加沙中部地区操作一架与哈马斯有关的无人机，其行为对他们的安全构成威胁。

The Israel Defense Forces issued a statement saying their members had observed, quote, several suspects who operated a drone affiliated with Hamas in the Central Gaza Strip in a manner that posed a threat to their safety, unquote.

军方并未回应关于如何确定该无人机与哈马斯有关的问题。

The military did not respond to questions about how it determined that the drone was affiliated with Hamas.

这些记者是昨天以色列军队在加沙杀害的11名巴勒斯坦人中的一部分。

The journalists were among 11 Palestinians killed by Israeli forces yesterday.

自战争爆发以来，记者保护委员会记录显示，以色列在加沙的火力已导致至少206名记者和媒体工作者死亡。

Since the start of the war, the committee to protect journalists has recorded that Israeli fire in Gaza has killed at least 206 journalists and media workers.

军方称，他们仅针对战斗人员进行打击。

The military says it has targeted only combatants.

舒鲁克·阿萨德是巴勒斯坦记者协会的发言人。

Shuruk Assad is a spokesperson for the Palestinian journalists syndicate.

我们在拉姆安拉联系到了她。

We reached her in Ramallah.

舒鲁克，你认识其中一位遇难的记者。

Shuruk, you knew one of the journalists who who were killed.

能跟我们讲讲穆罕默德吗？

Tell us a little bit about Muhammad.

我认识穆罕默德只是通过远方的联系，因为我像许多记者一样，无法获准进入加沙，无论是外国记者还是来自西岸的记者。

I knew Muhammad from far away because I cannot unban from entering Gaza, like so many journalists, foreign and even from West Bank.

他很年轻，非常敬业，也非常有礼貌。

He's young, very dedicated, very polite.

我曾经联系过他，因为我正在帮助我那些女性记者同事——我有一个大约300人的团体，我们当时正试图为她们提供最基本的援助，比如食物，如果他能帮我们弄到一些物资，因为他也为埃及人道主义委员会拍摄一些内容。

I contacted him once because I was trying to help my female journalist colleagues I have a group, like around 300 of them and we were trying to deliver beginning of first, the starvation, flower, if they can help me in flower, because he also films a little bit for the Egyptian humanitarian committee.

所以他有时能帮她们获取一些资源，比如毛毯、帐篷之类的物资。

So he knows some access sometimes for things to help them, like covers, like blankets or tents or so on.

所以时不时我会和他联系，互相交换一些信息或号码，我们聊的都是如何真正帮助我们的同事，改善他们的日常生活。

So from time to time I used to talk to him to maybe exchange I can give him some info or numbers, he can give me some numbers, and we were talking just about how can we really help our colleagues out to make things better in their daily life.

当你和穆罕默德以及你所在协会的同事们沟通时，他们是如何表达自己的感受的？他们是否因为继续从事这份工作而感到恐惧？

When you did message with Mohammad and all of, you know, your colleagues in the syndicate that you work with, how do they express how they're feeling, whether they're afraid as they continue to do this work?

我的意思是，他这么年轻，是否已经为这样的事情做好了准备？

I mean, was he, as young as he was, preparing for for something like this?

没有。

No.

但我记得有一次我们聊到过一些事情。

But I remember once we've been talking about things.

事实上，有一句话他经常说，我很多同事也常说，通常在每次通话结束时，他们会说：‘好吧，但如果我接下来没接电话，我不知道明天自己是否还活着。’

Actually, this is a word that he repeats and so many of my colleagues say, that they say usually at the end of any call, Okay, but if I don't answer the phones, I don't know if I will be alive tomorrow or not.

这句话在加沙几乎人人都会说，因为你真的不知道下一秒他们是否还能活着。

This is a word that everybody repeats in Gaza, because really you don't know if next minute they will be alive or not.

他很难过，也很受创伤。

He was sad, he was traumatized.

他很害怕。

He was afraid.

但他从未觉得自己在做任何会让他成为目标的事情。

But he never felt he's doing anything that can make him a target.

他从未有过这种感觉。

He never felt this way.

尤其是最近，他非常关注流离失所者和家庭，拍摄他们，与他们合作，在平民和流离失所者的营地中工作。

And especially lately, was focusing a lot on the displaced and families and filming them and working with them and working in the camps of the civilians and the displaced people.

而他正是因此丧生的。

And that's how he was killed anyway.

他当时和阿比德以及另一位同事安娜·瑟尼在一起，他们并不在边境上。

He was in an area with Abid and and the other colleague, Anna Surney, they weren't on a border.

他们在加沙城。

They are in Gaza City.

他们在加沙东部，靠近纳赛尔地区。

It was East Gaza near Nasserim.

这些区域都不是在特朗普宣布停火后，人们被指示可以前往的地方。

It's not any of the areas where they were indicated if people can hear us after Trump made the ceasefire.

他们曾在地图上标出了不同区域。

They drew on a map of zones.

红色区域，任何人都不能进入。

Red zone, nobody can get to it.

黄色区域，相对安全。

Yellow zone, it's safer.

他甚至都不在黄色区域。

He was even not in the yellow.

他身处的是最安全的区域。

He was in the safest zone.

记者们所工作的救援机构表示，上周他们正在使用无人机拍摄一个帐篷营地，这是他们工作的一部分。

The relief agency the journalists were working with said they they were using a drone to photograph a tent camp last week as part of their work.

关于本周发生的事情，以色列军方表示，正如我们的听众所听到的，这些记者当时正在操作一架与哈马斯有关的无人机。

In terms of of what happened this week, the Israeli military says, as our listeners heard, that the journalists were operating a drone affiliated with Hamas.

你如何看待这个解释？

What do you make of that explanation?

对我来说，这只是一个借口。

For me, this is only an excuse.

他们众所周知是记者。

They are known they are journalists.

他们众所周知在做什么。

They are known what they are doing.

而且无论如何，你必须知道，以色列的装备真的非常精良。

And anyway, you have to know, Israel really, really well equipped.

他们确切知道他们轰炸的是谁。

They know exactly who they bomb.

这是给我传递的一个信息：我们不希望有任何不同于以色列叙事的叙述。

This is a message for me that we don't want any narrative other than the Israeli narrative.

我们不希望你一直生活在恐惧和惊吓中。

We don't we want you to to stay afraid and terrorized.

我们不想让你沉默，也不希望任何人对所有罪行提供任何证词。

We don't we want to silence you, and we we don't want any people to have any testimony on on all the crimes.

一遍又一遍地恐吓记者，这种说法是：街上什么都没有。

And traumatizing journalists again and again and again, this affiliation of there's no there was nothing on the street.

没有武装分子，没有冲突，什么都没有。

There's no no militants, no clash, no nothing at all.

这11名遇难者中包括记者。

The journalists were among 11 people killed.

对你来说，听到停火的消息时，考虑到昨天刚刚发生的事，这对你的未来意味着什么？

For you, when you hear ceasefire now, given what has happened just yesterday, what does that mean for you and the future there?

根本就没有过一分钟的停火，我一直在联系，我家里有很多人在加沙。

There's there there wasn't any minute ceasefire, and I'm in contact, and I have family in Gaza that I got so many of them.

我有同事。

I have colleagues.

我每天都和他们交谈，我是一名记者。

I talk to them every day, And I am a journalist.

根本没有停火。

There is no cease fire.

以色列希望继续占领加沙。

Israel wants to keep occupying Gaza.

这一点对每个人来说都很清楚。

This is clear for everybody.

也许在新闻和头条上有个停火，但在日常生活中。

There is, okay, a cease fire, maybe in the news, in the headlines, but in the daily lives.

停火意味着安全。

Cease fire means safety.

停火意味着保护。

Cease fire means protection.

停火意味着我得为我的孩子们找牛奶，得有尊严，有个遮风挡雨的屋顶，还得有药品，不能……

Cease fire means that I have to find milk for my children, and I have to have dignity and to have a roof on my top and even to have medication and to be no.

根本就没有。

There isn't.

关于记者们，也就是你们的同事，葬礼已经举行了。

In terms of the journalists, your colleagues, the funerals were held.

现在有什么措施在支持他们的家人吗？

What, if anything, is being done to support their families now?

人们确实如此。

The people yeah.

今天，我联系了一位同事。

Today, I called a colleague.

他们说会去探望并帮助他们等等。

They said they will be visiting and helping them and so on.

但什么才能真正弥补他们失去的亲人呢？

But what will really give them back what the loved ones they lost?

什么也带不回他们了。

Nothing will bring them back.

只是一名士兵决定按下按钮，就终结了年轻记者的生命，我不认为任何事情能真正挽回所有失去的亲人和造成的破坏。

It's just a soldier who decided to click on a button and just end the life of young journalists, and I don't think anything will really get back all the loved ones and all the destruction that happened.

但唯一应该做的是追究责任。

But the only thing that should be done is accountability.

我不知道该对你说什么，耶尼。

I don't know what I tell you, Yeni.

在巴勒斯坦或加沙当记者，正变得像是一种罪行，我们似乎总得为自己辩护，证明我们是记者，是好记者。

Being a journalist in Palestine or in Gaza is becoming as if a crime and becoming as if we have always to really defend ourselves that we are journalists, we are good journalists.

就连国际组织也依赖我们的新闻。

Even the international organizations depend on our news.

我认为，如果以色列真的受到问责或惩罚，他们可能会在杀害记者之前反复考虑上百次。

I think if Israel really, really get accountable or punished, maybe they will think hundreds of times before they kill a journalist.

如果这种事情发生在加拿大、以色列、巴黎或乌克兰，世界会有不同的反应。

If this happens in Canada or Israel or Paris or Ukraine, we would have seen different reaction from the world.

舒鲁克，我感谢你这些分享。

Shuruk, I appreciate this.

谢谢你，请保重。

Thank you, and please take care.

谢谢。

Thank you.

舒鲁克·阿萨德是巴勒斯坦记者协会的发言人。

Shuruk Assad is a spokesperson for the Palestinian journalists syndicate.

我们在拉姆安拉联系到了她。

We reached her in Ramallah.

对于吉西尔多一家来说，位于加拿大安大略省伯灵顿的斯泰兰蒂斯工厂就像一家家族企业。

For the Gisildos, the Stellantis plant in Brampton, Ontario is like a family business.

约瑟夫·吉西尔多在这家汽车工厂工作了近二十八年。

Joseph Gisildo has worked at the auto plant for nearly twenty eight years.

后来，他的妻子也加入了，等孩子们长大后，他的三个女儿以及她们的伴侣也相继加入。

Eventually, his wife joined him, and when they were old enough, so did his three daughters and then their partners.

吉西尔多家族总共有八名成员从这家公司领取薪水。

In total, eight members of the Gisildo family get their paychecks from the company.

所以两年前，当伯灵顿工厂暂时停产以转向电动汽车生产时，这家人面临一个选择。

So two years ago, when the Brampton plant temporarily paused production to pivot to EVs, the family had a choice to make.

随着停工时间延长，他们决定接受调派到斯泰兰蒂斯位于温莎的装配厂。

As the pause dragged on, they decided to accept a transfer to Stellantis' Windsor assembly plant.

于是，这个由18人组成的大家庭，包括10个孙子孙女，收拾了全部家当，向西搬迁了三个小时的车程。

So the family of 18, including 10 grandchildren, packed up their lives and moved three hours west.

贾斯敏·吉西尔多描述了做出这一决定有多么艰难，以及与整个家人一起工作的感受。

Jasmine Gisildo described how difficult that decision was and what it's like to work with her entire family.

好处是我们聊天时，彼此都懂对方在说什么，尤其是当我们想倾诉工作上的事时。

It's nice in the aspect that we understand what we're talking about when when we do wanna, you know, just vent about work.

但与此同时，是的，这确实令人害怕，因为如果布兰普顿工厂真的关闭了，你知道，我们更希望住在那儿。

But at the same time, yeah, it is scary because if Brampton does close, you know, that's you know, we we prefer to live we would prefer to live there.

那是我们长大的地方。

That's where we grew up.

那是我们所有人开始的地方。

That's where we were all you know, that's where we all started.

但如果这一切消失了，你就完全不知道加拿大的汽车工业接下来会怎样，而我们也将失去工作。

But if that were to go away, you have no clue what else is gonna happen with the auto industry in Canada, and then we would have no job.

我们在那里工作了很长时间，现在已经到了这个年纪，想找一份和现在一样高薪的工作越来越难了。

And we've been working there for quite a bit where we're at that age that it's harder and harder to get jobs that pay as much as we get right now.

我们非常幸运，能够拿到这么高的薪酬。

We have been very lucky with the fact that we do get paid as much as we do.

我们享有福利待遇。

We get our benefits.

我们还有退休储蓄计划等各种福利。

We get RSP and everything like that.

但如果这些都消失了，我真的不知道我们还能做什么。

But if that were to go away, I have no clue what we would really do.

当他们宣布吉普指南者将迁往美国时，我们就下定了决心。

We decided when they announced that our Jeep Compass was getting moved to The States.

就在那时，我们确定一定要做出这个转变。

That's when we decided for sure that we were going to make the transition.

我们花了两到三个月的时间，顺利完成了这次过渡。

We were able to take a couple months, like two or three months to actually transition into this.

很多人做不到这一点，对吧？

A lot of people weren't able to do that, right?

很多人是在十一月决定的。

A lot of people decided in November.

但确实，这个过渡非常艰难。

But yeah, it was a very difficult transition, that's for sure.

当他们取消了充电器、挑战者和300车型，并说要将它们转移到温莎时，我真的很生气，但我什么都做不了。

When they took out the charger, the Challenger and the 300, and then they said they're going to bring it to Windsor, that's the time I was so mad, but I can't do nothing.

在这种情况下，部分责任在于公司和政府，对吧？

In that case, would be partially the company and the government, right?

因为他们决定电动汽车将是未来。

Because they decided that EVs were going to be the future.

而伯灵顿并不具备这种条件，温莎却有。

Then Brampton isn't equipped for that and Windsor is.

当我们得知重新装配的消息时，以为只是几年后就结束了，这就是为什么我们对把我们的车型转移到温莎的决定感到不满。

When we were told about the retooling we were under the impression that it would be a maybe a couple years and then that was it which is why we were not happy about the decision of them moving our cars to Windsor.

但你知道，我们其实什么都做不了。

But, you know, there's nothing we can really do.

我们只是生产线上的工人。

We're just line workers.

对吧？

Right?

我们本来希望工会能为此多抗争一下，但我觉得他们某种程度上也信任公司，相信公司会做出正确的决定。

We we hope that the union would would fight back on it a little bit more, but I think they were also trusting the company in a way where they would make a good decision.

这三款车我们卖出了很多，所以我们每周工作六天，还有大量加班。

Those three cars, we sold a lot of them, which is why we were working six days a week and, lots of overtime.

而且，我想他们做出这个决定，是基于当时他们认为正确的判断。

And, you know, they made that decision, I guess, based on whatever they thought was gonna be right at the time.

贾斯敏·吉西尔多和她父亲约瑟夫向CBC温莎记者阿克顿·克拉金讲述了他们一家18口人因布兰普顿的斯泰兰蒂斯装配厂停产而迁往安大略省温莎的经历。

Jasmine Gisildo and her father Joseph telling CBC Windsor reporter Acton Clarkin about moving their family of 18 to Windsor, Ontario after the Stellantis assembly plant in Brampton stopped production.

昨天，在特朗普总统于世界经济论坛发表演讲后，美国有线新闻频道News Nation的利比·迪恩在社交媒体上发帖称：‘在特朗普于世界经济论坛的讲话中，他似乎三次混淆了格陵兰和冰岛。’

Yesterday, after president Trump's speech at the World Economic Forum, Libby Dean of the American cable news outlet News Nation posted on social media, quote, during his WEF remarks, president Trump appeared to mix up Greenland and Iceland around three times, unquote.

她指的是他在冗长演讲中的这些时刻，当时总统说了这些话

She's referring to these moments in his meandering speech when the president said this

直到前几天我告诉他们关于冰岛的事之前，他们都很喜欢我。

till the last few days when I told them about Iceland, they loved me.

还有这个。

And this.

他们对冰岛并不支持我们。

They're not there for us on Iceland.

这一点我可以告诉你。

That, I can tell you.

还有这个。

And this.

你知道吗，昨天股市首次下跌就是因为冰岛。

You know, stock market took the first dip yesterday because of Iceland.

还有这个。

And this.

所以冰岛已经让我们损失了很多钱。

So Iceland's already cost us a lot of money.

但白宫发言人卡罗琳·勒维特希望你和利比·迪恩知道，你和习近平并没有听到你们刚才听到的那些话。

But White House spokesperson Caroline Leavitt wants you and Libby Dean to know that you and Xi did not hear what you and Xi just heard.

在推特上，勒维特女士愤慨地写道：‘不。’

On Twitter, miss Leavitt indignantly wrote, quote, no.

他没有，利比。

He didn't, Libby.

他的书面发言称格陵兰是一块冰，因为事实确实如此。

His written remarks referred to Greenland as a piece of ice because that's what it is.

这里只有你在混淆概念。’

You're the only one mixing anything up here, unquote.

无论你是用手机导航、追踪快递，还是只是想在徒步时不迷路，GPS都会为你指引方向。

Whether you're using your phone for driving directions, tracking a delivery, or just trying not to get lost on a hike, the GPS is there to guide you.

而它的存在很大程度上要归功于格拉迪斯·韦斯特，这位数学家的计算为GPS的实现奠定了基础。

And it exists in large part because of Gladys West, a mathematician whose calculations helped make GPS possible.

韦斯特女士上周末去世了。

Miss West died last weekend.

她享年95岁。

She was 95 years old.

她在吉姆·克劳时代的弗吉尼亚州种族隔离环境中长大。

She grew up in segregated Virginia during the Jim Crow era.

1956年，她克服重重困难，成为弗吉尼亚州达赫伦美国海军基地第二位黑人女性雇员，当时整个基地的黑人员工总共只有四人。

And in 1956, she beat the odds and became the second black woman hired at a US naval base in Dahlgren, Virginia, one of only four black employees, period.

以下是格拉迪斯·韦斯特在2021年弗吉尼亚历史与文化博物馆的讲话，谈到了成就她非凡职业生涯的态度。

Here's Gladys West speaking at the Virginia Museum of History and Culture in 2021 about the attitude that made her remarkable career possible.

首先要做一个正直的人，然后与他人合作，保持尊重，全心投入，帮助他人并成为他们的导师。

Start by being the right person yourself and then work with others, be respectful, be committed, and sort of help others and be a mentor to others.

你其实可以给予他人很多，而无需期待太多回报。

You have a whole lot that you can sort of like give to others yourself without having to expect so much.

有时候我们去上班，却只期待别人为我们做一切，而从不反思自己该做些什么。

Sometimes we go to a job and we just expect everything from everybody else, but not from yourself.

简·普利特多年来致力于让格拉迪斯·韦斯特的贡献为公众所知。

Jane Plitt worked for years to bring Gladys West's contributions into public view.

她是位于弗吉尼亚州亚历山大市的国家女性创新中心的创始人。

She is the founder of the National Center for Women's Innovations in Alexandria, Virginia.

我们在纽约市联系到了她。

We reached her in New York City.

简，这听起来像你所熟知的格拉迪斯·韦斯特吗？

Jane, does that sound like the Gladys West you knew so well?

这听起来像是那位改变了自己人生的格拉迪斯·韦斯特。

It sounds like the Gladys West who transformed her life.

是的。

Yes.

格拉迪斯·韦斯特是否完全意识到自己所取得成就的深远意义，以及她的工作有多么具有变革性？

Did Gladys West grasp fully the enormity of what she had accomplished, how transformative her work had become?

也许只有她自己才能回答这个问题，但我的感觉是她确实意识到了，因为她所成就的事业并非一天或一分钟就能完成，而是需要极大的毅力和完美精神，才能精确地绘制出整个世界。

Only she could probably answer that, but my sense is she did because what she accomplished was not something that she could turn around in a day or a minute, but it took an enormous amount of grit, of perfection to truly exactly map the world.

正如她帮助我们发现的那样，地球并不是一个完美的半球体，而是一个大地水准面。我不是科学家，但她所做到的——精确地、精确地，而不是近似地——使我们所有人都能够到达任何想去的地方。

And as she helped us discover, the world is not a perfect hemisphere, and it's this geoid, and I'm not a scientist, but what she was able to do precisely, precisely, not approximately, enabled us, all of us, to be able to get to wherever we wanna get to.

她在和你聊天时，有没有为自己取得的成就感到自豪？

Did she ever pat herself on the back about it in her chats with you?

没有。

No.

没有。

No.

韦斯特博士是一个非常低调的人。

Doctor West was a very understated person.

当她看到展览以及在女性创新者国家中心为她举办的晚宴上受到的热情欢迎时，她的眼睛会闪烁出光芒。

Her eyes would twinkle when she saw the exhibit and the enormously ly warm reception at the National Center of Women's Innovations Gala for her.

但她是一个极具谦逊的人。

And but she was a woman of great humility.

正如她的孙子安德烈所说，韦斯特博士始终致力于做到最好，而她的最好改变了世界。

And as her grandson, Andre, said, doctor West was committed to doing her best always, and her best changed the world.

我们的听众听到了一些关于她作为黑人女性工作时的背景信息。

Our listeners heard a little bit about where where she was working, the time she was working as a black woman.

在弗吉尼亚海军基地工作期间，她面临了哪些情况？

What kinds of things was she facing at during her time at that Virginia naval base?

她跟你谈起过那段经历吗？

What did she tell you about that experience?

嗯，她于1956年被聘为达格伦海军基地的第四位黑人专业人士，也是第二位黑人女性。

Well, she was hired as the fourth black professional at the Dahlgren Naval Base in 1956, and she would have been the second black female.

这四位黑人员工只能在结伴时离开校园，而且他们从不在周末外出，担心会发生不测。

The four black people could only go outside of the campus when they stuck together, and they would never go out on a weekend for fear of what might happen to them.

根据她自己的书写和描述，校园内部是接纳他们的。

On the campus, from what she wrote and described, there was acceptance.

但她的聘用，以及另外三位黑人专业人士的聘用，应当被视为一位勇敢的白人男性管理者打破种族壁垒、唯才是举的典范。

But her hiring and the hiring of the three other black professionals needs to be cited as an example of how a brave white male manager chose to break the color barrier and hire the best.

在当今这个时代，当我们听到有人贬低有色人种或女性的成就，声称他们只是因为多元化、公平与包容（DEI）才获得机会时，她和她的同事们证明了智力与种族或性别毫无关系。

And in this day and age when we're hearing diminishment of what people of color or women are achieving with the suggestion, it's only because of DEI, she and her colleagues demonstrated that brainpower has nothing to do with race or gender.

你认为为什么这么长时间以来，更多人还不知道她的名字、她的成就和她的贡献呢？

Why do you think it it's taken so long for more people to know her name, her accomplishments, and her her contributions?

我认为这是因为她是黑人女性，而且从不自我吹嘘。

I think because she was black and female and not tooting her own horn.

她认为成果自然会为自己说话。

She expected that the results would speak for themselves.

但不知为何，对于这个对社会各个层面产生万亿美元影响的极其强大的全球定位系统，

But somehow, the credit for this enormously powerful system of global positioning that has trillions of dollars of impact on every element of our society.

居然没人问过是谁在背后推动它，而且人们当然不会假设，这会是这位身材娇小、默默工作的女性所完成的。

Somehow, nobody asked who's behind it, and certainly, the the assumption was not going to be that it was this petite little woman who just did her work.

我们的制作人今天采访了格拉迪斯的女儿卡罗琳，她说她为母亲从未停止学习和自我提升感到自豪。

Our producer spoke to Gladys's daughter, Carolyn, today, and she said that she's proud her mother never stopped learning or trying to improve herself.

格拉迪斯·韦斯特教会了你什么？

What did Gladys West teach you?

她体现了对我们的每一个人、尤其是对我的一种鼓励：坚持不懈至关重要，你需要树立梦想并为之奋斗，尽自己最大的努力，同时接受前方必然会有不公平的障碍。

She personifies the encouragement to every one of us, and especially to me, that perseverance is essential, and that you need to set a dream and pursue it and do the best that you can, accepting that there are going to be unfair obstacles in your way.

你还需要抓住机会，实现你的梦想。

And you need to seize opportunities and honor your dream.

她的梦想是获得博士学位，但由于中风多次，这个目标被耽搁了，而她在70岁时终于实现了这个梦想。

Her dream was to get a PhD, and she was short circuited because she had several strokes, and at age 70, she fulfilled that dream.

我不知道我们中有多少人，我已经超过70岁了，还能像她那样坚持下去。

I don't know how many of us, I'm past 70, would be willing to hang in there as she did.

但这体现了她的决心。

But it's reflective of her determination.

非同寻常。

Extraordinary.

简，很高兴我们能交谈。

Jane, I'm so glad we could speak.

谢谢你分享你的回忆。

Thank you for sharing your memories.

感谢你的分享。

Appreciate I it.

谢谢您的时间。

Thank you for your time.

简·普利特是位于弗吉尼亚州亚历山大市的国家女性创新中心的创始人，也是已故格拉迪斯·韦斯特的家人朋友，我们在纽约市联系到了她。

Jane Plitt is the founder of the National Center for Women's Innovations in Alexandria, Virginia and a family friend of the late Gladys West when we reached her in New York City.

新闻自由组织将这一决定称为严重的司法不公。

Press freedom organizations have described the decision as a grave miscarriage of justice.

今天，在菲律宾的一家法院，记者法奇·梅·坎皮奥被裁定犯有资助恐怖主义罪。

Today, in a court in The Philippines, journalist Frenchy May Cumpio was found guilty of terror financing.

她将面临十年以上的监禁。

She faces more than a decade in jail.

这一判决是在她自2020年2月被捕后被羁押超过五年之后作出的。

The decision comes after more than five years in detention following her arrest in February 2020.

坎皮奥女士被捕时年仅21岁。

Miss Cumpio was just 21 years old at the time.

她当时正在报道农村地区涉嫌的军事和警察暴行。

She had been reporting on alleged military and police abuses in rural communities.

自她被拘留以来，‘自由自由·梅·坎皮奥’联盟一直在为她的案件发声。

And in the years since her detention, the free Frenchie Mae Cumpio coalition has been speaking out about her case.

他们在一份声明中称，今天的定罪是对菲律宾新闻自由的沉重打击，但这并非首次。

In a statement, they called today's conviction a blow to press freedom in The Philippines, and it's not the first.

亚历山德拉·米拉科夫斯卡是无国界记者组织亚洲太平洋地区的倡导经理。

Alexandra Milakovska is the advocacy manager for Asia Pacific with Reporters Without Borders or RSF.

她专程前往菲律宾，旁听了今天的判决。

She traveled to The Philippines for today's decision.

我们在马尼拉联系到了她。

We reached her in Manila.

亚历山德拉，你昨天得以探视了弗兰奇。

Alexandra, you were able to visit Frenchie in detention yesterday.

你获得了探视的许可。

You got the permission to do that.

你对她说了什么？

What did you say to her?

我们作为国际非政府组织，更广泛地说，作为国际社会，坚定地支持她，因为她不仅是菲律宾，更是全球新闻自由的象征。

That we, as the international NGOs, but, more generally as the international committee are standing with her because she is a symbol symbol of press freedom, not only in The Philippines, but, around the world.

她对你说了什么？

What did she say to you?

昨天她充满希望。

Yesterday she was full of hope.

她非常感激我们国际非政府组织联盟、无国界记者、致力于保护新闻自由组织以及自由新闻基金会过去为她所做的一切。

She was really grateful for everything that we as the International Coalition of INGOs, Reporters of Borders, Committed to Protect General and Free Press Unlimited have been doing for her the past.

她对这种持续的局面感到非常疲惫，因为这已经持续了六年。

She is really tired with this ongoing situation because it's been six years.

她一直被关押，遭受着毫无根据的指控，这些指控根本就不该被提交到法庭。

She has been detained, under the bogus charges, the charges that have no basis and shouldn't be even brought to the court in the first place.

你说她和你谈话时充满希望。

You said she was she was hopeful when you spoke.

你和你的同事们对她的状态有什么感受？

What was your sense and your and the sense from your colleagues?

你有没有想到事情会发展成这样？

Did you think it was going to go the way that it did?

当时是否普遍抱有希望，认为不会是这样的结果？

Was there actually a broader sense of hope that this would not be the result?

是的。

Yes.

因为，正如我刚才所说，这些指控毫无根据，我们原本以为菲律宾作为一个民主国家会维护法治，当他们看到她有充分的不在场证明，确实没有做错任何事，而且我们自己进行的两次调查都曾与所谓证人交谈，发现他们的证词相互矛盾，我们还就此发表了报告，此事广为人知。

Because, as I just said, there's no basis for these charges, and we thought that Philippines as a democratic country would uphold the rule of law and that when they would see that there's no evidence that she is alibied, that she really didn't do anything wrong and the fact that even ourself, the two investigations, had a chance to speak with so called witnesses, they contradict the statements, we published about it, it was everywhere.

我们以为法官会认真考虑，在这种情况下，根本没有任何理由将她羁押。

We thought that the judge would really take into consideration that there's really nothing for them to be detained in this situation.

是的，这曾是我们的一种希望，但今天看到这个结果，我们感到震惊。

Yes, this was a hope and a shock for us today to see that.

当判决宣布时，她和她的家人在法庭上是如何反应的？

How did she and her family in the courtroom respond and react when the decision came down?

他们彻底崩溃了。

They were devastated.

更令人痛心的是，首先宣布的是关于合法持有枪支的指控，她被宣告无罪，所有人都高兴了五分钟，她因喜悦而流泪，觉得这一切终于结束了；但几分钟后，另一项判决出炉——她被判定犯有毫无根据的资助恐怖主义罪，她彻底崩溃了。

And what is even more devastating is that first was announcement came for the first charge which is the legal possession of firearms and it was acquittal so everyone was for five minutes so happy her mouth started to cry from being happy that this is finally over and then after a few minutes the other announcement came in and then she was convicted for baseless, for bogus financing terrorism and she was devastated.

她在法庭上哭泣，所有人都感到震惊，包括她的家人。

She cried in the courtroom and everyone was shocked, including her family.

你们的组织——无国界记者——已经对这些具体指控，即资助恐怖主义的指控，进行了自己的调查。

Your organization, Reporters Without Borders, has done its own investigation into those specific allegations, the financing terrorist the terrorism allegations.

根据你们组织的调查结果，这项指控的依据是什么？

From what your organization has has found, where does that charge stem from?

提出这些指控的人，其依据究竟来自哪里？

What is it rooted in for for those laying those charges?

他们试图在法庭上制造一个先例，这一点现在非常明确，因为这是法国第一个案例，必须强调的是，这是第一位被定罪的记者，也是第一位因所谓‘解散’罪名而被定罪的知名人士。我们过去曾讨论过这种情况，但一直以为法官最终不会做出这样的判决。

They try to find a way of making precedent in the court, and this is quite clear right now because French is the first, and it's very important to emphasize that first journalist, but also first so prominent case of the person being convicted under discharge and this was something that we discussed in the past but we thought that the judge would never decide to go with this conviction in the end.

我们在调查中发现，这些证人的证词相互矛盾。

What we have found out during our investigation is that the testimonies was contradicting themselves.

其中一位证人过去曾因十多项罪名被拘留并受审，但因与军方合作而被无罪释放，并被用作许多其他案件的证人。他声称弗伦奇曾与他联系，但当我们查到日期后发现并非如此。

One of the witnesses that actually was detained and charged with more than 10 cases in the past and acquitted because this person started to collaborate with the military and being used as the witness in many other cases, claimed that Frenchie was in touch with this witness when then we found the date.

那时她才九岁，因此在这方面根本说不通。

Was when was nine years old so it doesn't even make sense in this regard.

正如我所说，她在法庭上证明了自己当时在另一个地方，根本没有在那些据称她提供资金支持恐怖组织的其他城市。

So this type of testimony, as I said, she proved in the court that she was in a different location, that she was not in one of the other cities where she allegedly was providing some types of financing money for the terrorist groups and so on.

这表明，尽管我们进行了调查，尽管我们提出了所有证据，法官还是做出了这种令人震惊的定罪。

So it's just showing that despite our investigation, despite everything that we said, the judge decided to go with with this appalling conviction.

你提到了她被无罪释放的那项指控。

You mentioned the charge she was she was acquitted of.

他们指控她在2020年床边存放了枪支，还有一面共产主义旗帜。

That this these were firearm charges that they alleged she they were in her bed along with a communist flag back in in 2020.

她最终在这项指控上被宣告无罪。

Again, she was acquitted of of that charge.

《纽约时报》援引菲律宾政府打击地方共产主义武装冲突国家工作组的一名发言人的说法，该组织称，武器持有指控被驳回，证明了菲律宾的司法体系正在有效运作，并进一步表示：‘仅此一点就彻底粉碎了法院只是国家的橡皮图章或政治迫害工具的虚假叙事。’

The New York Times is quoting a spokesperson for the government's national task force to end local communist armed conflict, and that group says that the fact the weapons possession charge was was thrown out shows that the justice system there in The Philippines is working and goes on to say, quote, this alone demolishes the false narrative that courts are a mere rubber stamp for the state or instruments of political persecution.

这体现了司法独立。

It shows judicial independence, unquote.

你如何回应这一说法？

How do you respond to that assertion?

作为长期不仅在菲律宾，还在该地区专制国家如缅甸、中国从事相关案件的律师，我对这种说法感到震惊。

For me, it's shocking as the advocate that have been working not only on the case in The Philippines, but also in the authoritarian countries in the region, Myanmar, China, This is the wording.

这正是这些政权所使用的措辞。

This is exactly the wording that these regimes are using.

专制政权正是这样使用的。

The authoritarian regimes are using.

令我震惊的是，在该地区最重要的民主国家之一，仍有一些机构使用这种语言。

And for me, it's shocking that in one of the most important democracies in the region, there are still institutions using this type of language.

对我来说，这简直令人愤慨。

For me, it's just outrageous.

这个案件受到了广泛关注，现在有更多人知道了弗朗奇的名字。

There is so much attention on the case, and many more people know Frenchie's name now.

她明天就满27岁了。

She's set to turn 27 years old tomorrow.

考虑到这一裁决以及案件所获得的关注，接下来可能会发生什么？

What might happen next, given the decision, but also the attention that the case is getting?

我们当然感到悲伤和愤怒，但同时又抱有希望，因为律师们将提出上诉，并可能被转移到首都马尼拉，我们希望由此能带来更独立的司法裁决，让这一情况尽快得到解决。当然，这只会延长这场磨难——她已被拘留六年，而她是一名非常年轻的记者，这一事实已无法逆转。但我们真心希望她能早日获释，与家人团聚。目前，我们需要尽可能多的国际压力，因为菲律宾仍然是一个民主国家，理应是我们盟友，理应倾听我们的声音，我们应当继续这项至关重要的工作。

We, of course, quite sad and outraged, but at the same time, hopeful because the lawyers will appeal, will be moved to the capital, to Manila, probably and with that we hope for more independence for the independent court ruling and that this will be soon caused so of course it's just prolonging this ordeal this detention is delaying the fact that again she has been detained for six years for all youth because she's a very young journalist so it's already something that cannot be reversed but we really hope that we'll see her free reunited with family very soon and we just need, at this point, as much international pressure as possible because Philippines are still democracy, should be our allies, so they should listen to to what we say, and we should continue this very important work.

亚历山德拉，感谢你的分享。

Alexandra, I appreciate this.

谢谢。

Thank you.

非常感谢你。

Thank you so much.

亚历山德拉·比拉科夫斯卡是无国界记者组织的倡导经理。

Alexandra Bilakovska is an advocacy manager with Reporters Without Borders.

我们在马尼拉联系到了她。

We reached her in Manila.

温尼伯的无家可归者收容所警告称，今年冬天对他们的服务对象而言正变成生死攸关的问题。

Homeless shelters in Winnipeg are warning that this winter is becoming a matter of life and death for their clients.

周二，加上风寒效应，气温降至惊人的零下43摄氏度。

On Tuesday, temperatures reached a staggering minus 43 degrees with the wind chill.

预计本周气温将持续在零下35摄氏度左右（无风寒效应），而收容系统已难以应对。

Lowers of around minus 35 without wind chill are forecast all week, and the shelter system is struggling to keep up.

上周，一场火灾迫使一家收容所关闭。

A fire forced one shelter to close last week.

另一家名为萨洛姆使命的收容所经常床位告急，但将人们赶回严寒中绝非可行之策。

Another, the Salom Mission, has often run out of beds, but forcing people out into the cold is not an option.

因此，萨洛姆开设了一个24小时临时避寒中心，夜间通常接待超过200人。

So Salom has opened a twenty four hour drop in center, which regularly hosts more than 200 people overnight.

玛戈·罗斯是萨洛姆使命的管理人员。

Margo Ross is a manager at Salome Mission.

我们在温尼伯联系到了她。

We reached her in Winnipeg.

玛戈，你们现在所经历的这种气温，对无家可归的人们来说，现实中意味着什么？

Margo, the kinds of temperatures we're talking about that that you are living with there right now, what does that mean in reality in practice for people who who don't have a home?

对我们大多数人来说，这只是一个不便，而且相当令人沮丧。

Well, for most of us, it's an inconvenience and it's rather depressing.

但对于那些无家可归的人来说，这却变成了危及生命的情况。

But for those folks who are unhoused, it becomes a life threatening experience.

当我们谈论零下43度时，我想现在实际温度大约是零下30度。

And when we're talking about minus 43, I think as we speak, it's around minus 30.

你知道，让人们在户外长时间停留有多危险吗？

You know, how dangerous is it for people to be out there for a sustained period of time?

这绝对非常危险。

It's absolutely dangerous.

因此，我们的志愿者足部护理护士正越来越多地看到患有低体温症和冻伤的人。

So our volunteer foot care nurses are seeing more and more folks with hypothermia and frostbite.

偶尔，我们会听说有社区成员因严寒而去世。

Once in a while, we hear about community members who have passed, due to to to the cold.

这是一种前所未有的经历。

It's, it's an experience like no other.

所以我们已经准备好了，但你知道，我们仍然缺乏冬季衣物、毯子、卫生用品和干袜子等物资。

So we are ready, but, you know, we're still always short of supplies like winter clothing and blankets and hygiene items, dry socks.

对于无家可归的人而言，知道有一个全天候开放的地方可以让他们躲避严寒，意义非凡。

It means the world for folks who are unhoused to know there's a place that's open twenty four hours a day that they can take respite from from the frigid weather.

否则，我们可能会发现他们坐在公交候车亭里，或在街头游荡。

Otherwise, we might find them sitting in a bus shelter or wandering the streets.

因此，对于社区成员来说，我们位于市中心核心位置，是一个避难所。

And so being right downtown in the core for community members, we're we're a refuge.

我刚去了一趟临时接待点，发现那里正在举行一个击鼓小组活动。

I just went down to the drop in, and we've got a drumming drumming group going on.

还有热巧克力、汤，以及我们的前线工作人员，他们都是英雄。

And there's lots of hot chocolate and and soup, and and our frontline staff who are just heroes.

他们正在短暂休息。

They're taking a short break.

现在他们中的大多数都在连班，而高层管理人员也深入一线，支持社区成员。

Most of them are doing double shifts now, and senior management is in there, supporting community members.

所有人都在全力以赴。

It's all hands on deck.

看到这一切令人惊叹，但也令人心碎。

It's remarkable to see, but it's also heartbreaking to see as well.

我想问一下，目前在温尼伯，无家可归者中占多数的是哪些人？

I wanted to ask you who is making up the majority of the unhoused at this moment in time in Winnipeg?

我们看到越来越多的老年人。

Well, we're seeing more and more seniors.

这确实很惊人。

It's it's quite remarkable.

我们发现的老年人年龄在50岁以上，比如有人因网络金融诈骗而失去一切，最终来到慢使命中心。

We're seeing folks over we consider seniors to be people 50 and above and folks who one example is someone through a financial internet scam lost everything and ended up here at slow mission.

我们还看到那些从寄养系统中成年离院、无处可去，或刚从监狱释放的年轻人。

We see young people who are aging out of foster care, who have no place to go or who have been released from a penitentiary or a prison.

当然，也总有一些人患有获得性脑损伤，或有成瘾问题，只是想找一个温暖安全的地方。

And then there is always of course folks who, you know, where there's some acquired brain disorder and folks with addiction issues and just looking for a warm space to be safe.

因此，Slow Mission 非常自豪能够提供这份光明，否则人们会感到无比绝望。

And so Slow Mission is really proud to be able to offer that light because otherwise it's such a feeling of hopelessness.

我们的目标是实现自身解散。

Our goal is to go out of business.

我们希望看到一个没有长期无家可归者的温尼伯。

We want to see a Winnipeg without chronic homelessness.

但在那之前，我们会尽最大努力在人们所处的位置上帮助他们，提供热食、与他们交谈，或许协助他们申请健康卡或身份证，逐步赢得他们的信任，并为他们找到支持性住房。

But until that happens, we do our best to meet people where they're at, to get them a hot meal, to talk with them, to maybe help them get a health card or their ID and over time win their trust and find supportive housing for them.

你提到了温尼伯极端的天气状况。

You mentioned the the extremes in terms of weather in Winnipeg.

严酷的冬天人们并不喜欢，但他们都知道冬天通常都会到来。

Harsh winters are are something people don't love, but but they certainly know are usually coming.

现在是什么让那里的状况变得更糟了？

What is is making the situation worse there now?

因为现在外面的无家可归者更多了。

The fact that there's more unhoused folks out there.

此外，上周在温尼伯发生了一起火灾，地点就在我们姐妹庇护所——主街项目旁边的一家酒店。

And as well, there was a fire last week in Winnipeg, a hotel right beside our sister shelter, Main Street project.

因此，原本住在主街项目的人需要另找地方安置。

So the folks who were staying at Main Street project needed another place to to go.

这又增加了一批已经在这里的人群。

So so that, added an additional population to to the folks that that are already here.

这带来了额外的责任，但我们成功应对了。

So that that added extra responsibility, and we've been able to meet it.

我们通常每天提供三餐，每年365天，每餐服务500人。

We we normally serve 500 meals, each meal three times a day, three sixty five days a year.

当然，这个数量增加了。

So that increased, of course.

于是我们向供应商和志愿者发出呼吁，他们都积极前来帮忙。

So we called out to our suppliers and volunteers, and they all rallied to help us out.

这种情况仍在持续。

And that continues.

我的意思是，人们的慷慨令人惊叹，这对我们所做的工作产生了巨大影响。

I mean, the generosity of folks is remarkable, which which makes a huge difference in the work that we do.

当遇到没有足够床位容纳所有需要帮助的人的日子或夜晚，尤其是在像今天零下43度这样的日子，你们不得不面对这种情况时，感觉如何？你们会把他们拒之门外吗？

When it is a day or a night where you don't have enough beds to accommodate all the people who need it, especially on a day like Tuesday minus 43, as we said, what is it like to have to I mean, do you turn them away?

你们会让他们留在临时接待区吗？

Do you do you let them stay in the drop in area?

你们会怎么做？

What do you do?

他们会留在临时接待区，我们也会持续与城里的其他收容所保持电话联系。

They'll stay in the drop in, and we are in constant phone contact with the other shelters in town.

所以我们与其他机构紧密协作，确保没有人被遗弃在街头。

So we work very collaboratively so that nobody's left out on the street.

你认为，要为你们和其他机构增加更多床位，需要什么条件？

What will it take, do you think, to get more beds for you and the other facilities?

更多的住房。

More housing.

更多的支持性、可负担住房，以及帮助人们重返或进入劳动力市场的机会，以赚取足够的钱支付第一个月的房租、押金，同时提供一些个案管理服务，帮助人们与家人团聚，特别是协助他们找到工作。

More supportive, affordable housing, opportunities for reentering and entering the workforce to make enough funds, you know, pay that first month's rent, damage deposit, and just, you know, some case management work, helping people reunite with their families, but particularly also just finding employment.

像这样的一周，这样的一个冬天，你认为情况已经严重到足以让你获得更多的床位和资金了吗？

Does a week like this one, a winter like this one, do you think it's a situation grave enough that you will get more beds and more funding?

我的意思是，我们的目标不是扩张，而是为所有社区成员找到住房。

I mean, our goal is not to expand, but to find housing for all of our community members.

但需求确实非常大，特别是对于那些整天或整晚都在走路的人而言，保暖、耐用的新袜子非常重要。

But certainly the need is so great, particularly for new socks, people who walk all day or walk all evening, you know, wool, hardy new socks are so important.

手套、冬装、暖手宝——所有这些应对温尼伯严冬所需的物品都极度紧缺。

Gloves, the winter clothing, hand warmers, all of the types of things in order to to battle the extremes of Winnipeg winters are are desperately needed.

玛戈，谢谢你分享这些。

Margo, thank you for this.

不客气。

You're very welcome.

玛戈·罗斯是萨洛姆使命中心的经理。

Margo Ross is a manager at Salome Mission.

我们在温尼伯联系到了她。

We reached her in Winnipeg.

尼古拉斯·伊瓦尔多是一位经验丰富的登山者。

Nicolas Ivaldo was an experienced mountaineer.

但在2024年8月，他前往意大利的科蒂安阿尔卑斯山后便再也没有回来。

But in August 2024, he went out into the Cottian Alps in Italy, and he never came back.

一支由50多人组成的救援队徒步和乘直升机在大片区域搜寻，希望能找到他还活着，最终希望能找到他的遗体，但始终没有发现任何踪迹。

A rescue team of over 50 people scoured a large area on foot and from a helicopter hoping to find him alive and eventually hoping to find his body, but they found no trace of either.

几个月后，当积雪融化时，他们再次尝试，这次终于成功了。

Months later, when the snow melted, they tried again, and this time they succeeded.

但最终发现伊瓦尔多先生的并不是人类。

But in the end, it wasn't a human who found mister Ivaldo.

而是人工智能，参与该项目的团队希望他们的方法能帮助在其他登山者遭遇不测前及时施救。

It was artificial intelligence, and the team involved is hoping their methods could help save other climbers before it's too late.

萨瓦里奥·伊佐拉是意大利都灵山地救援站的无人机飞行员兼负责人。

Savario Izola is a drone pilot and the chief of the mountain rescue station in Torino, Italy.

我们在都灵找到了他。

We reached him in Torino.

萨瓦迪奥，你和你的团队以前用过无人机。

Savadio, you and your team have used drones before.

这次为什么引入人工智能？

Why incorporate AI this time?

伊瓦尔多的案件最初是一起在这片极其危险环境中发生的失踪报告。

The case of Ivaldo started as a missing person report in this very dangerous environment.

我们决定使用无人机，因为蒙维索山的北坡——这是都灵周围最高的山——高达5000米。

We decided to introduce the drone because all the north face of the Monviso, this mountain that that is the biggest mountain around Torino, is 5,000 meter high.

北坡是蒙比萨山最陡峭、最难攀登的岩壁，布满陡峭的岩面、深谷、岩缝以及密集交错的攀爬路线。

The north face is the steepest and the most difficult climbing face of the Mombisa with a lot of a lot of steep faces, deep galleys, rock channels, and a dense network of intersecting climbing routes.

我们决定不冒风险派人类救援人员进入这个地方。

We decide to not to risk to send human human rescuer in this in this place.

因此，唯一的办法就是使用无人机或直升机。

So the only opportunity was to use drones, helicopter or drones.

但使用直升机，你无法深入到这些岩沟和岩道的内部。

But with the helicopter, you you cannot be so deep inside the the galleys and the channels of the rocks.

所以在这个案例中使用无人机是最完美的选择。

So use the drones for this case because it was perfect.

更安全。

It's safer.

你不必派队员上去，而且这

You don't have to send your crews up there, and this

没错。

this Exactly.

还能进入一些你无法到达的地方。

Can also get into places that you couldn't

更安全。

It's safer.

这有点像科学研究。

It it is a kind of scientific work.

因为当你用眼睛或仅用无人机观察时，无法确定所有区域是否都被正确扫描了。

Because when you look with your eyes or with just with the drones, you're not sure that everything is be it is scanned in the proper way.

你将无人机收集的照片输入到人工智能系统中。

You feed the the AI system photographs that were collected by the drones.

对吧？

Right?

没错。

Exactly.

然后

Then

配备人工智能的无人机尝试比对这些数据或寻找异常情况？

AI equipped drones try to match that up or look for for anomalies?

没错。

Exactly.

异常指的是颜色异常、形状异常，它们会综合所有这些数据，从而突出显示地貌的某些不连续性。

Anomalies, that means color anomalies, shape anomalies, and they cross together all this this this data, and they highlight some discontinuity of the landscape.

我们只检查了100个异常，我认为这还不够，但我们只筛选出其中最有可能的异常并发送给目标。

We only only I would say it's not enough, but we we only checked a 100 of anomalies, and then we highlight the most probability of these anomalies that sent to a target.

所以在这种情况下，它是有效的。

So in this case, it was effective.

最终只是少数几个像素看起来不同。

And it came down to just a couple of pixels looking different.

是的。

Yeah.

只有非常非常少的几个像素。

Couple of Very, very few pixels.

极少的几个像素。

Very few pixels.

AI可能会出错，你知道的。

AI can make mistakes, as as you know.

它甚至可能凭空捏造信息。

It can make things up even.

那么，你怎么能确定这并不是某种AI幻觉呢？

So how did you how could you be sure that this wasn't some sort of AI hallucination?

我们标出了多个可能的目标，然后决定优先处理它们。

We we highlighted a number of possible target, and then we decide to give priority to them.

接着，我们将这些目标交给其他AI软件处理。

And then we we pass to other AI software.

经过多个软件的交叉验证后，我们认定这很可能是最重要的目标，需要进一步分析。

And after the cross checking of multiple software, we decide that that was probably the the most important target to analyze.

第二天早上，太阳一升起，我们就从山下派出无人机，搭载探照灯和特殊的变焦光学设备，检查那个用GPS坐标扫描的点是否准确无误。

And then we did the morning after, as soon as the sun was rising, we send from from down the mountain the drone with some spotlight and and a special equipment of zoom and optical stuff to check if that point scanned with the the correct coordinates GPS was right and was right.

于是我们拍下了那具尸体，并记录了精确的坐标。

So we we we photographed the the body, and then we kept the exact coordinate.

我们研究了周围的环境，规划了如何用直升机将救援人员送达现场。

We studied the environment around and how to get there with the helicopter to to land the crew for the rescue.

花了多长时间？

How long for

接运。

the pickup.

整个过程花了多长时间？

Did that process take, the whole process?

我们在那里工作了三天左右。

We worked there for three days, more or less.

是的。

Yeah.

我知道你和你的团队显然非常兴奋，也为这项技术及其能力感到自豪。

I know you you and your team were were excited, obviously, and and proud of the technology and and what it could do.

尼古拉斯·伊瓦尔多的家人反应如何？

How did how did Nicolas Ivaldo's family react?

我认为他们非常高兴，因为知道有人失踪却找不到遗体总是件可怕的事；而确认尼古拉斯就在那里，对他们来说虽然悲伤，但某种程度上也是一种解脱。

I think they were so happy because it it's always it's always it's it's terrible thing to to know that someone is missing is not to find his body and to be sure that Nicolas is there, and then they I I think that that was for them was sad, but absolutely a relief in some way.

对我们来说也是如此，因为这标志着多年训练、方法和研究的圆满成果。

And in also for us because it was the coronation of years of training and method and studying and stuff like this.

所以，是的。

So Yeah.

这真的非常好。

It was really it was really great.

确实是。

It was

这是许多类似发现中的第一批之一。

And and was one of the first of many other discovering like this.

之后你们还用过吗？

Have you used it since?

而且，是的，也用于其他方面。

For also for, like yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

例如，我最近两天都在工作。

I work for example, I work for two days on newest days.

我们整晚都在30号工作，31号一整天都在搜寻一名在山中奔跑时失踪的法国登山者。

We we worked all the night of thirty and all day of thirty one for searching a French trailer missing in the in the mountain while he was running on the mountain.

最后，我们找到了他，但不幸的是他已经去世了。

And finally, we find him, unfortunately, dead.

但我们也救出了许多还活着的人。

But in an we we we find a lot of people alive.

所以这彻底改变了你的工作方式。

So this has changed the work that you do radically.

当然。

Absolutely.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

它也有助于常规的失踪人员搜救系统的工作。

And helps also the the normal work of the system of miss of searching missing people.

所以这是一个团队。

So it's a it's a team.

这不仅仅是我们的工作，而是一个对我们所有人来说都非常强大的工具。

It's on it's not only us, but it's a it's an instrument it's a strong instrument for for us, for for us all.

你们仍然需要人。

You still need you still need the people.

人工智能很有帮助，但你们仍然需要人。

The AI is helpful, but you still need the people.

是的。

Yeah.

我们非常需要当地人的经验，因为我们不会随机派出无人机，而是根据我们认定的高概率搜救区域，沿着特定路径行动。

A lot we need the experience of the local people because they we don't send randomly the the drones, but we follow the specific path to the most hot areas that we we think it's a searching area.

因此，这其中涉及大量策略，而这些策略都是由人制定的。

And so we we there is a a lot of strategy, and the strategy is made by human.

所以这很好，因为人工智能和人类之间有着良好的互动。

So it's it's good because it's a good interaction between the the AI human.

这是一次完美的合作，可以说是在这两者之间的合作。

It's a perfect, I mean, joint venture because between these two.

萨维罗，很高兴我们能交谈。

Saverio, I'm glad we could speak.

谢谢你这么做。

Thank you for this.

是的。

Yeah.

也谢谢你。

Thank you to you.

很高兴能接到你的联系。

I'm very glad to be contacted by you.

保重。

Take care.

萨维里奥·伊佐拉是意大利都灵山地救援站的负责人。

Saverio Izzola is the chief of the mountain rescue station in Torino, Italy.

我们就是在那里联系到他的。

That's where we reached him.

您正在收听《事态发展》播客。

You've been listening to the As It Happens podcast.

我们的节目每周一至周五在加拿大广播公司第一电台《今日世界之后》播出。

Our show can be heard Monday to Friday on CBC Radio one after Your World Tonight.

当然，您也可以通过 cbc.ca/aih 网站、CBC Listen 应用程序，或者您常用的任何播客平台收听我们的节目。

And you can, of course, also listen to our show online at cbc.ca/aih or on the CBC Listen app or, of course, wherever you get your podcasts.

我是奈斯·科查拉。

I'm Neith Kochsalla.

我是克里斯·霍登。

And I'm Chris Howden.

如需收听更多加拿大广播公司播客，请访问 cbc.capodcasts。

For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.capodcasts.