我怎样才能不再如此怨恨？

这就是我的建议。

So that's my advice.

希望我说得清楚。

I hope it makes sense.

我知道我说得有点杂乱，但这确实帮到了我，因为我年轻时也曾陷入这样的循环，总是放不下，觉得别人做了些不可原谅、特别糟糕的事。

I know it's kind of all over the place, but that's what really helped me because I used to get caught in those kinds of cycles when I was younger, where I just like couldn't let something go because I thought somebody did something that was like so unforgivable, so bad.

但我没有去正视自己的痛苦，不是不承认痛苦，而是去正视它真正对我造成了什么影响。

But instead of letting myself acknowledge the pain, I just like, it wasn't even not acknowledge the pain, it's like acknowledge what it really did to me.

我只是不断回想他们有多混蛋，结果可想而知，我一点也没感觉好起来。

I just ruminated on all the reasons that they were an asshole and surprise, surprise, I didn't feel any better.

所以我今天想告诉你，走出困境的真正方法，是直面你的感受、你自己的反应，以及这件事究竟如何影响了你，还有你打算如何让自己的生活变得更好。

And so I'm here to tell you that the way out is actually through your feelings, your own responses, how it really affected you and what you're gonna do to make your life better.

因为再次强调，我们只能控制自己。

Because again, we can only control ourselves.

如果有人想当个混蛋，那就随他吧。

If someone wants to be a dick, they can.

我们无法通过言语或行动改变他们，但我们可以改变自己与他们互动的方式，以及在生活中其他方面的方式。

There's nothing we can say or do to change them, but we can change the way that we interact with them and just in other areas of our life.

你一定可以的，相信我，我已经做到了。

So you got this, you can get through it, trust me, I've done it.

这需要时间，我们必须对自己有耐心，允许自己真正地体验这种感受，坦诚面对它，好吗？

It just takes time and we have to be patient with ourselves as we allow ourselves to experience it for real, be vulnerable with it, okay?

我们继续来看第四个问题。

Let's move on to question number four.

所以我想对Kati说，希望你别太辛苦，好好享受生活。

So I just say, hey, Kati, I hope you're not working too hard and enjoying life.

我希望你也是这样。

I am I hope you are too.

我有一个问题，非常想知道答案。

I have a question that I desperately want to know the answer to.

我查了谷歌、ChatGPT，甚至读了一些资料，但还是不明白为什么我的治疗师不愿意和我一起做创伤治疗。

I looked on Google, chat GBT, and even read it, but it's not giving me a clear understanding of why my therapist, why might my therapist not want to do trauma work with me.

感谢 Ka'Chava 赞助本期节目。

Thank you to Ka'Chava for sponsoring today's episode.

你有没有那种下午突然需要点什么的小时刻？

You know that moment in the afternoon where you just need a little something?

对我来说，通常下午三点左右，我会感到状态下滑，大脑疲惫。

For me, it's usually about 3PM where I feel like I go into a slump and my brain is tired.

我一整天都在工作，突然就渴望吃点像咖啡或甜食那样的犒赏。

I've been working all day and suddenly I'm craving something that feels like a treat, like coffee or something sweet.

以前我要么忽略这种感觉，要么放纵自己，之后又觉得不舒服。

And I used to either ignore it or go all in and then feel kinda bleh later.

但最近，我一直在尝试找到真正享受这些时刻并支持整体健康的方法，而 Ka'Chava 正好帮上了忙。

But lately, I've been trying to find ways to actually enjoy those moments and support my overall health, and that's where Ka'Chava has really come in.

他们刚刚推出了新的咖啡口味，真的完美把握了中间地带。

They just launched their new coffee flavor, and it genuinely feels like that perfect middle ground.

它有着顺滑浓郁的咖啡风味，采用优质无咖啡因巴西咖啡豆制成，我很喜欢，因为它满足了我的渴望，却不会让我感到心慌不安。

It has this really smooth, rich coffee taste made with premium decaffeinated Brazilian beans, which I love because it satisfies my craving without making me feel all jittery.

我欣赏的是，这不仅仅关乎口味。

And what I appreciate is that it's not just about the flavor.

它还为你的身体提供了真正的营养。

It's also giving your body something real.

Ka'Chava 是一款全营养奶昔，采用高品质成分制成，让你一次性摄取植物蛋白、纤维、绿叶蔬菜、适应原，还有更多营养成分。

Ka'Chava is an all in one nutrition shake made with high quality ingredients, so you're getting plant based protein, fiber, greens, adaptogens, and so much more all in one.

它让我在一天中轻松维持能量，尤其在忙碌的日子里，感觉更加平衡。

It's been such an easy way for me to support my energy throughout the day and just feel a little more balanced, especially on my busy days.

而且它的营养成分很纯净。

Plus it's clean nutrition.

不含人工香料、色素或甜味剂，无转基因成分，无大豆，无动物制品，无麸质，无防腐剂。

There's no artificial flavors, colors, or sweeteners, no GMOs, no soy, no animal products, no gluten, and no preservatives.

这真的是一种微小的改变，却能带来巨大影响——你依然在犒赏自己，但方式却真正支持了你的健康。

It really feels like one of those small shifts that makes a big difference, where you're still treating yourself, but in a way that actually supports you.

用你身体渴望的风味和营养来犒劳自己吧。

Treat yourself to the flavor and nutrition your body craves.

前往 kachava.com 并使用代码 Kati 享受首单 15% 折扣。

Go to kachava.com and use code Kati for 15% off your first order.

那就是 Ka'Chava，kachava.com，代码 Kati。

That's Ka'Chava, kachava.com, code Kati.

我们继续看第四个问题。

Let's move on to question number four.

嘿，Kati，我就是想跟你说一声。

So I just, hey, Kati.

希望你别太辛苦，好好享受生活。

I hope you're not working too hard and enjoying life.

我很好，也希望你也是。

I am I hope you are too.

我有一个问题，非常想弄清楚答案。

I have a question that I desperately want to know the answer to.

我查了谷歌、ChatGPT，甚至读了相关资料，但还是不明白为什么我的治疗师不愿意和我一起做创伤治疗。

I looked on Google, chat GPT, and even read it, but it's not giving me a clear understanding of why my therapist, why might my therapist not want to do trauma work with me.

我以为这正是治疗的目的。

I thought that was the whole point of therapy.

对于创伤治疗，是的，我们稍后会谈到这个。

For trauma therapy, yes, we'll get to this.

为了提供背景，我被诊断出患有边缘型人格障碍、焦虑、注意力缺陷多动障碍和抑郁。

For context, I'm diagnosed with BPD, anxiety, ADHD, and depression.

我刚从一个日间治疗项目中出院。

I got out of an IOP program.

现在，日间治疗（IOP）指的是强化门诊治疗。

Now IOP stands for intensive outpatient.

这基本上就像一个日间项目，有些人会在一天中的某些时段住在治疗机构里。

It's pretty much like a day program or for some people they'll stay at the facility for chunks of the day.

但事实上，你每天大部分时间都在那里。

But yeah, so it's like you're there for most of your day every day.

所以我提前离开了那个日间治疗项目，因为我没学到什么，但这让我开始思考。

So an IOP program that I left early because I wasn't learning anything, but that made me think.

我的治疗师本可以直接教我那些本应在治疗项目中学到的技能。

My therapist could just teach me skills that I was supposed to learn there.

我很好奇你为什么觉得在IOP项目里学不到东西，但我需要更多了解具体情况。

I'm curious why you didn't feel like you're learning anything at the IOP program, but I'd have to know more about it.

所以在上一次会谈中，我向她倾诉了自己在工作中的糟糕表现，这让我想起了过去与我所有困扰相关的创伤。

So during my last session, I was venting to her about my poor performance at work that made me think of past traumas relating to everything that I struggle with.

我问我们是否可以开始创伤治疗，以及我是否可以就出现的术语向她提问。

I asked if we could do trauma work and, and I and can I ask her questions about different terms that come up?

但她的回应并不是我期待的那样，比如简单地说：‘当然可以，先生。’

But her response wasn't what I was hoping for, which was a simple just yes, sir, of course.

相反，她说：‘如果你想的话，可以拿支笔和纸做笔记。’

Instead, she said, you can get a pen and paper and take notes if you want.

什么？

What?

之后，我有点封闭自己，没再说什么，因为我觉得，一旦我为自己发声，她就根本不当回事。

After that, I kinda shut down and didn't say much because I felt like that the moment I actually speak up for myself, she doesn't see it as a big deal.

我告诉她，我受够了每次生活中遇到一点不顺就被提醒过去的事，我已经准备好把这一切抛在脑后了。

I told her I'm tired of being reminded of the past anytime I'm inconvenienced in life and that I'm ready to put it behind me.

但她却说，你需要先处理它，然后才能放下。

But she said, need to process it and move on.

这不就是创伤治疗吗？

Isn't that trauma work?

我太困惑了，但我不知道该怎么去做。

I'm so confused, but I don't know how to do that.

所以我才以为创伤治疗就是处理它。

That's why I thought trauma work is processing it.

是的，没错。

Yes, it is.

它写着：我不知道，问号。

It says, I don't know, question mark.

不，你说得对。

No, you're right.

总之，她为什么可能会回避创伤治疗呢？

Anyway, why might she avoid trauma work?

是因为我们在进行DBT治疗吗？

Is it because we're doing DBT therapy?

也许吧。

Maybe.

还是因为她觉得我没有创伤？

Or because she doesn't think I have trauma?

别这么想。

No, don't think that.

她从不提及BPD，也就是边缘性人格障碍。

She doesn't talk about BPD, borderline personality disorder, that's what that stands for.

顺便说一下，DBT是辩证行为疗法。

And DBT, by the way, is dialectical behavior therapy.

这是一种适用于边缘性人格障碍患者的治疗方式。

It's a style of therapy that works for people with borderline personality disorder.

请解释一下，感谢你所做的一切。

Please explain, thank you for all you do.

当我处于最低谷时，你真的帮助了我。

You really helped me when I'm at my lowest.

当然，我很高兴能在这里。

Of course, I'm so glad I can be here.

现在这条评论和上面的类似，但我们还是深入探讨一下，因为已经有很多内容需要梳理了。

Now we have a comment on top of this that's similar, but let's just dig into this because there's already a lot to unpack.

正念行为疗法是一种非常特定的治疗方法，它本身并不是真正的创伤疗法，明白吗？

Now, dialectical behavior therapy is a very specific type of treatment and it in and of itself is not really trauma therapy, okay?

我之所以这样说，是因为我自己曾经多年是一名认证的DBT治疗师。

And the reason I say it like that is because I myself, for many, many moons, was a certified DBT style of therapist.

我，我不确定这是否算一种认证。

I a, I don't know if it's a credential.

我每年都需要重新认证正念行为疗法。

I had to do it every year and get recertified in dialectical behavior therapy.

我已经让证书过期了。

I have let it lapse.

我很抱歉。

I'm so sorry.

但因为我不再从事私人执业，所以觉得没必要再花这笔钱续证。

But I since I don't see patients in private practice anymore, I didn't think it was worth paying all the money for it.

所以我已经有一段时间没做这件事了。

So I haven't done that in a while.

我提到这一点是因为DBT本身包含一些对创伤后应激障碍患者有帮助的内容，比如情绪调节，学会管理内心涌现的情绪，并拥有其他应对工具。

And I bring that up because DBT in and of itself has some things that would help people who have PTSD, things like emotion regulation, like finding ways to manage what comes up for us and having other tools to deal with that.

甚至可以说，DBT的全部内容对每个人都很有帮助。

Even, I mean, all of DBT is helpful for everybody.

所以正念部分非常重要。

So like mindfulness component's really important.

此外，人际效能也非常重要，意味着你的关系可以得到改善。

There's also, it's really important to have interpersonal effectiveness, meaning like your relationships can improve.

其中包含了许多非常有价值的沟通技巧。

Has a lot of communication skills that are in there that are really valuable.

DBT的所有组成部分都能帮助任何人，但它本身并不是一种基于创伤的治疗方法。

All of the pieces of DBT could help anyone, but it in and of itself is not a trauma based treatment.

但如果你的治疗师因为只提供DBT而不愿与你进行创伤治疗，他们应该明确说出来。

But if your therapist didn't want to do trauma work with you because all they offer is DBT, then they should say that.

那样就会非常清楚。

And that would be very clear.

所以我可能会直接问你的治疗师这个问题，因为你问治疗师的问题其实并不是‘我们能进行创伤治疗吗？’

So I might ask your therapist straight up about this because what you asked your therapist wasn't really, can we do trauma treatment?

你当时只是向她倾诉，你说你问过能不能做创伤治疗，而我可以问她一些关于出现的不同术语的问题吗？

You were venting to her, and you said, I asked if we can do trauma work, and I can ask can I ask her questions about the different terms that come up?

我想你是问过能不能做创伤治疗，但她却让你拿笔和纸。

I guess you did if we can do trauma work, but she said you can get a pen and paper.

我觉得她可能没理解你的问题，因为她的回答对我来说毫无意义。

I feel like she didn't maybe understand your question because her answer doesn't make sense to me.

你可以记笔记，如果你想的话。

Like, you can take notes if you want.

我觉得她主要关注的是那些术语，比如如果你想要更好地理解这些术语，她会告诉你，你可以把它们写下来。

I think she was focusing mainly on the terms that, like, if you wanted to better understand the terms, she would tell you and you could write them down.

我可能也会这么说。

I might say that too.

我觉得这并不是一个糟糕的回应。

I don't think that's really a bad response.

如果有人说，嘿，如果出现了一些不同的术语，你能帮我更好地理解吗？

If someone was like, hey, if different terms come up, like, can you help me better understand?

我会说，当然可以。

I'd be like, sure.

你可以记笔记，这样以后可以参考。

And you can take notes so that you have them for reference.

你知道的。

You know?

这对术语来说是有道理的。

That makes sense for the terminology.

但谈到创伤治疗时，我可能会再问一次。

But when it comes to the trauma work, I might ask one more time.

我这么说是因为她的回答没有道理。

And the reason that I say this is because her answer doesn't make sense.

如果她提供的只是这些——并非她完全没提供，但如果你认为她主要是一位DBT风格的治疗师，那么她无法为你进行创伤治疗。

If all she offers, and not all being, like she doesn't offer enough, but if she's primarily a DBT style of therapist, then she's not gonna be able to do trauma work with you.

她所说的‘只需处理并继续前进’，这让我相信她根本不懂创伤。

And the fact that she said like, should just process it and move on leads me to believe that she doesn't understand trauma at all.

这是一种非常简单、非结构化的回答方式。

That's a very simplistic, nonstructured way to answer that.

你只需处理一下，然后继续前进。

You should just process and move.

嗯，是的。

Well, yeah.

不用说也知道，福尔摩斯。

No shit, Sherlock.

这正是我请你帮忙的原因。

That's why I'm asking you, like, to help me.

你倒是说帮帮我啊。

You're like, help me.

所以我真的想再问一次关于创伤治疗的事。

So I really would ask one more time about the trauma work.

如果她提供这项服务，那我就这么建议。

And if she offers it, that's how I would propose.

我会这样问这个问题。

I would ask the question this way.

你们提供创伤治疗吗？

Is trauma work something that you offer?

因为我真的受够了。

Because I'm sick of it.

我感觉它在掌控我的生活。

I feel like it's running my life.

这就是我从中学到的东西。

It's kind of what I got out of this.

就好像，无论我去哪里，都会被提醒起这件事，这让我很烦，我讨厌它。

It's like, I feel like everywhere I go, I'm reminded of it and it's annoying and I hate it.

所以我会问她：你们提供创伤治疗吗？或者你们的治疗实践中会做创伤治疗吗？

And so I would ask her, trauma work or do you do trauma work in your therapy practice?

你们能为我提供这个吗？

Is that something you can offer me?

因为我觉得这是我需要的东西。

Because that's something that I feel that I need.

我会这样表达。

That's how I would say it.

如果她回答不行，或者说‘我可以帮你聊聊’，或者轻描淡写地带过，或者给你的回答不够好，那你可以再问她，或者自己做些研究，去找一个能帮到你的人。

If she says no, or says like, I mean, I can help you talk through it, or kind of downplays it or you don't get a good answer for you, then it's okay to either ask her or start doing your own research to find someone that can.

因为如果她说，嗯，我其实不专门做，但我可以先从你开始，那你就可以问，那你有推荐的人选吗？

Because if she says, well, I don't really, but I can start with you, say, well, do you have anybody you'd recommend?

这没问题。

That's okay.

我知道你心里想，Kati，你不想再换一个新的治疗师。

I know you're like, Kati, don't wanna start with a new therapist.

但看来我们也不能从这位开始。

Well, it doesn't sound like we can start with this one either.

也许她确实对你的边缘型人格障碍很有帮助，但我可以告诉你，对我们很多人来说，这和创伤是密不可分的。

Maybe she I mean, she's definitely probably helpful for your borderline personality disorder, but I can tell you that it's inextricably linked to trauma usually for a lot of us.

所以我们必须进行创伤治疗，无论是EMDR、躯体体验，还是其他类型的创伤聚焦认知行为疗法，总之，你必须以某种方式获得这些创伤治疗。

And so we're gonna have to get that trauma work, whether it's EMDR, whether it's somatic experiencing or some other type of like trauma focused CBT, for example, some type of trauma treatment, she's gonna have to, you know, we're gonna have to get that available to you in some way.

我理解你为什么会关闭自己，因为这感觉非常不被认可。

And I understand why you shut down because it feels really invalidating.

这感觉就像她在回避你的问题。

It feels like she's kind of like ignoring your question.

所以我想再问一次，创伤治疗是否是她能提供的服务，她是否能帮助你完成这部分工作。

And so I would ask one more time if trauma work is something that she can offer, if she can help you, you know, do that.

如果不能，她有没有可以推荐的人选？

And if not, does she have anyone she can recommend?

然后你再重复一遍，就像我说的，每当我生活中遇到不便时，我就会被勾起过去的回忆，我真的受够了。

And then just say it again, like, I just feel like, you know, I'm reminded of my past anytime I'm inconvenienced in life and I'm sick of it.

我不想再这样下去了。

I don't wanna do this anymore.

所以我理解你这种感受。

So I get that working.

但你说得对，创伤治疗确实需要去处理它。

But you are correct that trauma work is processing it.

所以我无法理解她，为什么她只是觉得需要处理一下然后就放下。

That's why I don't understand her, like the fact that she just need to process it and move on.

这感觉非常不被认可。

That feels very invalidating.

这简直就像在问：‘你怎么还没做呢？’这种说法，完全不具治疗性，也没有帮助。

It's almost like, how come you haven't done it yet type of language, which is just so not therapeutic, not helpful.

所以，我可能会再坚持一下，或者开始寻找专门做创伤治疗的人，因为我相信那真的会有帮助。

And so I might push again a little or start looking for someone who does trauma work because I believe that that will really help.

她通常不会提到边缘型人格障碍，但她会提到辩证法——我不太明白，因为DBT（辩证行为疗法）是由玛莎·林纳汉创造的，而她本人就是一位患有边缘型人格障碍的女性。

Usually she doesn't talk about BPD, but she does dialect I don't understand because DBT was created, for those who don't know, dialectical behavior therapy's origins come from Marsha Linehan, who's a woman herself who has borderline personality disorder.

我想她可能是治疗师或心理学家，但不管怎样，她和我一样都是一名临床工作者。

I think she's I don't know if she's a therapist or a psychologist, but either way, she's a clinician just like me.

她创造这种疗法，不仅是为了帮助自己，也是为了帮助她的患者。

And she created that to help not only herself, but her patients.

所以，不谈论边缘型人格障碍，却在使用这种疗法风格，这对我来说完全说不通。

So to not talk about BPD, but to be doing that style of therapy just doesn't make sense to me.

我的直觉告诉我，这可能根本不适合你，但我们还是可以问一些澄清性的问题，以确保我们真正听懂了她的话。

My gut tells me that this probably is just not the right fit for you, but we can ask some clarifying questions to make sure that we're actually hearing her.

因为再次强调，她的回答完全说不通。

Because again, her answers don't make sense.

所以我觉得，也许我们需要用更清晰的方式再问一遍，以得到正确的答案，或者我们真的需要为你找一个真正理解你的人，因为我感觉她在这里有些偏离重点了。

And so I'm like, maybe we need to ask again in like a clearer way to maybe get that right answer, or we just need to find you someone else who actually gets you because I feel like she's missing the mark somehow here.

明白吗？

Okay?

我知道这个回答有点糟糕，抱歉，但这就是实情。

I know it's kind of a shitty answer, I'm sorry, but that's just the truth.

我觉得她跟你谈论创伤治疗和边缘性人格障碍的方式，似乎有种轻视或否定的意味，几乎像是根本没认真讨论，却只让你觉得你需要去处理并往前看，这一切对我来说都感觉一点也不具有治疗性。

I feel like the way that she's spoken to you about your trauma work and your borderline personality disorder seems to kind of minimizing or invalidating, almost like not even really talking about it, and then acting like you just need to process and move on, all of that just doesn't feel very therapeutic to me.

所以我们再给她一次机会，看看她能不能理清状况，也许是我们理解错了，也许是我们表达得不够清楚，谁知道呢？

So we'll give her one more chance to kind of figure it out and maybe we misunderstood, maybe we weren't clear, who knows, right?

如果这行不通，那我们就找一个真正能帮助我们、并能站在我们立场上的人。

And if that doesn't work out, then we can find someone who will actually help us and meet us where we're at.

现在，我要说一下，我和我的DBT治疗师也有类似的问题。

Now, comment on this is, I've got a similar problem with my DBT therapist.

天啊，当一个DBT治疗师今天可真不容易。

Man, it's not a good day to be a DBT therapist.

我一生都在应对一种特定的创伤。

I've been dealing with a particular trauma all of my life.

我和她以前也谈过这个问题，结果总是我情绪失控——顺便说一句，这很正常，完全在预料之中，但几乎没有任何实质性的解决。

She and I have talked about it in the past with the same results, me escalating in my emotions, normal, by the way, totally to be expected, and urges with minimal resolution.

哦，上周在治疗中，我又一次试图处理这个创伤，我的治疗师却说，我们不再讨论创伤了，因为它会让我情绪过于激动。

Oh, so no tools, no well, last week in session, was I once again trying to deal with this trauma, and my therapist said we're no longer going to talk about the trauma because it brings up too much emotion for me.

哦。

Oh.

当我问她这话是什么意思时，她说，我可以告诉她我正在应对这个创伤，但我们不再深入探讨了。

When asked what she meant, she said, I can tell her that I'm dealing with that particular trauma, but we're no longer going to go into depth about it.

我太困惑了。

I am so confused.

你有没有拒绝过与任何患者讨论某个问题或创伤？

Have you ever refused to address an issue or trauma with any of your patients?

我没有。

I have not.

我知道我会深陷于自己的想法和冲动中，但她为什么要这么做呢？

I know I go down deep in my thoughts and urges, but why would she do this?

治疗是我唯一能谈论这件事的地方。

Therapy is the only place I can talk about it.

我没有其他支持了，卡蒂。

I've got no other support, Kati.

这到底意味着什么？

What does this mean?

非常感谢你能给我一些见解。

Any insight would be very much appreciated.

在我的实践中，我从未这样做过。

I have not done that in my own practice.

我所能想到的唯一可能不深入探讨的原因，是我认为患者有危险。

The only reason I could imagine that I would say we wouldn't go in-depth about it is if I thought a patient was dangerous.

我所说的危险，是指对自己造成伤害。

And what I mean by that is danger to self.

我的意思是，也许对他们来说也是如此，但对我而言，尤其是对我的边缘型人格障碍患者来说，他们更可能是对自己构成危险，比如自伤、自杀意念这类情况。

I mean, I guess they could be to me too, but it's more apt, especially with my BPD patients that they're danger to self, kind of like in the self injury, suicidal ideation type of way.

如果我觉得我们在治疗中讨论的内容没有进展，而你离开治疗时反而更加情绪失控、更加痛苦，我可能会担心你会伤害自己。

And if I thought you bring us talking about in therapy wasn't getting us anywhere and you were leaving our sessions like more dysregulated and more upset, I might be concerned that you'd harm yourself.

但我还是觉得不太对，不过我能理解，也许其他人——不是我——会说：我们别再谈这个了。

And so but I just still don't but I could see somebody potentially that's not me, somebody else saying, like, let's not talk about that anymore.

我明白。

I get it.

在我这里，通常当这种情况发生在患者身上时，我会在治疗结束时多留一些时间，帮助他们平复情绪，从强烈的情感体验中缓和下来。

In my case, usually when I have this happen with patients, I give more time at the end of the session to kind of like deescalate, like come down from that intense emotional experience.

我们通常会使用一些接地技巧。

We'll usually use some grounding techniques.

我们会做一些呼吸练习。

We'll do some breathing.

我们会聊一些轻松的话题，然后结束治疗，这样我就不会让你带着完全失控、混乱的状态离开。

We'll talk about something lighthearted, and then we'll wrap up the session so that I'm not leaving you completely dysregulated and discombobulated.

所以，这就是我的做法，但我能理解有些人可能选择不这么做，因为他们没有足够的工具来帮助你应对。

So I might, that's the way I do it, but I could see someone maybe saying that they're not going to because they don't have the tools to help you with it.

而且你反复谈论这个问题却几乎没有进展，这让我怀疑DBT是否真的最适合你，就像第一个问题提到的那样，也许我们需要找一位创伤治疗专家。

And the fact that you have talked about it over and over and with minimal resolution makes me wonder if it's possible that DBT is not the best fit, kind of like with the first person's question, like maybe we need to find a trauma specialist.

不同类型的治疗师之所以存在，是有原因的，对吧？

There are different types of therapists for a reason, right?

我们不可能样样精通。

We can't be a jack of all trades.

我无法帮助每个人解决所有问题。

I can't help everyone with everything.

我做不到真正有效。

I'm not gonna be any good.

就像人们常说的，样样通，样样松，对吧？

That's like, know, they say jack of all trades, master of none, right?

我会在很多事情上都表现得一般，但我更愿意在少数几件事上做到出色。

I'll be moderate at everything, but I'd rather be great at just a couple of things.

所以我专攻饮食失调治疗，特别是边缘性人格障碍、自伤行为这类问题。

That's why I specialize in eating disorder treatment and really borderline personality disorder, like self injury work, stuff like that.

这正是我的专长。

That's my shtick.

我可以整天都做这些工作。

I can do that all day long.

你需要一位能很好应对你问题的治疗师。

And you want a therapist that works with your issues that well.

你需要一位专家。

You want a specialist.

因此，我可能会建议提出这些问题的两个人——无论是评论者还是原提问者——去找一位创伤治疗师，因为你们的治疗师似乎都缺乏处理创伤所需的知识或专业能力，而目前这似乎是最关键的部分。

And so I might encourage both of the people who ask these questions, the comment and the original question, to find a trauma therapist because both of your therapists just don't seem to have the knowledge or the expertise to help you with trauma, and that seems to be the biggest piece right now.

我非常喜欢DBT。

I love DBT.

它对每个人都有极大的益处，尤其是对我们这些患有边缘性人格障碍的人。

It is incredibly beneficial for everyone, but especially those of us with borderline personality disorder.

然而，作为一名获得认证多年、从事这一行很久的人，这其实并不是创伤治疗。

However, as someone who's been certified for many years and did it forever, it's not really trauma work.

我大部分的创伤研究和对它的理解，都是在我第二本书《创伤者》中完成的。

Like I did most of my trauma research and understanding of it for my second book, Traumatized.

通过做这些工作，我确实成了更好的临床医生，但这些并不在我的培训范围内，也肯定不在我的DBT认证内容里。

That's made me a better clinician for that, you know, by just doing that work, but that wasn't in my training, that definitely wasn't in my DBT, you know, certifications.

因为那不是DBT的重点。

It wasn't there cause that's not the focus.

我认为DBT的大部分内容，其实主要是情绪调节，你可能不同意我的看法，但我这么认为。

Most of DBT, really feel, and you can disagree with me on this, but I think it's mainly emotion regulation.

正念的部分在于觉察身体里的感受，以便更快地掌控它们，这属于情绪调节。

It's like the mindfulness component is noticing where things are in your body so you can get ahold of them more quickly, emotion regulation.

此外，还有一个完整的模块是关于情绪调节的，甚至在我们的关系中，比如我们如何沟通而不失控？

Then there's, I mean, there's a whole pillar on emotion regulation, but even in our relationships, like how do we communicate without losing our shit?

我们该如何表达自己的需求？

How do we ask for what we want?

你知道，周围有各种各样的工具和方法，可以帮助我们应对与边缘型人格障碍相伴的情绪强度。

You know, there's all of these tools and things all around us managing the emotional intensity that can come along with BPD.

但这并不是创伤治疗。

And that's not trauma work.

其中有一部分是有帮助的，但那只是很小的一部分。

There's a piece of it that is helpful, but that's only like one small piece.

所以我会建议你去找一位这方面的专家，我相信你会从中获得全部的益处，好吗？

And so I would find someone who specializes and I think that you will get all the benefit from that, okay?

随时告诉我进展。

Keep me posted.

接下来是第五个问题，这个问题说：卡蒂，你能谈谈习得性无助以及如何应对它吗？

Moving on to question number five, this question says, Kati, can you talk about learned helplessness and what to do to combat it?

好的，习得性无助是一种体验，当你在生活中遇到某些事情，却完全无法掌控它们时。

Okay, learned helplessness is kind of this, it's this experience when in our life things happen and we can't we don't have any control over them.

通常这种情况发生在童年时期，因为我们没有足够的力量去反抗。

Meaning, usually we're children, so we don't have the strength to fight back.

我们跑得不够快，无法逃离。

We aren't fast enough to run away.

所以我们就会陷入冻结或讨好反应。

And so we kind of do the freeze or the fawn response.

对吧？

Right?

我们装死，或者努力让他们开心，以免他们再伤害我们。

We play dead or we try to keep them so happy that they won't hurt us anymore.

这些被动的反应——冻结和讨好，是一种更无助、更被动的应对威胁的方式。

And those those, like, inactive responses, that freeze and that fawn is more of a helpless, inactive response to a threat.

我之所以这样提，是因为当我们年幼时，反复处于这样的境况中，总是觉得自己无能为力，无法让情况变好。

And the reason I bring it up like that is because when we're younger and we're in those situations over and over and over, and we always find ourselves feeling like there's nothing I can do to make this better.

我逃不掉。

I can't run away.

我无法反抗。

I can't fight.

我只能装死，坐在这里忍受，或者尽力讨好他们，希望他们不再伤害我。

I have to just like play dead, sit here and take it, or try to please them and hope that they don't hurt me.

对吧？

Right?

我们通过反复的经历开始学会，无法自救，无法拯救自己，无法保护自己。

We start to learn through repeated experience that we can't help ourselves, that we can't save ourselves, that we can't protect ourselves.

这逐渐演变成一种习得性无助，觉得生活中无论做什么都无法让情况变好。

And that turns into this learned helplessness that like, there's nothing in life I can do that's gonna make this better.

于是，当我们长大后，依然带着这种模式生活。

So we take that out into our life as we get older and we still act that way.

也就是说，当我们遇到任何不便时，不管大小如何——每个人情况不同，但我觉得这适用于各种情况——当我们遇到障碍或小挫折时，立刻就觉得这事不会成功。

Meaning that when we're hit with any inconvenience, doesn't matter how big or small, everybody's different, but I find this kind of applies to anything, something that we run into that's like a roadblock or a hiccup, and we immediately are like, it's not gonna work out.

这肯定会很糟糕。

This is gonna be terrible.

我什么都做不了。

There's nothing I can do.

我们甚至都不想尝试，因为通过生活经验，我们已经明白努力也无济于事。

And we don't even wanna try because we've learned through life that that trying doesn't get us anywhere.

所以我讲这些，是为了帮助你理解什么是习得性无助，然后教你如何克服它。

And so I say all of that to help you understand what learned helplessness is and then talk you through how do you combat it.

好消息是，无论在生活中什么时候我们学会某种行为模式或互动方式，并反复实践，因为这就是我们的经历，既然我们能学会，就能重新学习，太好了！这意味着我们可以学会不再以无助的方式行事。

So the good news is, is that anytime in life when we learn a certain type of behavior, a certain way of interacting, and we do it over and over, because that's kind of our experience, when we learn things, we can unlearn things, yay, which means that we can learn how to not act in those helpless type of ways.

但要做到这一点，唯一的办法是拥有不同的经历和不同的行为，而这会非常不舒服。

But the only way we can do that is through having different experiences and different behaviors, and it's gonna be really uncomfortable.

我只是想让你做好准备，让你知道这会很不舒服，因为你正在做些不一样的事情。

I just wanna set you up for success by letting you know that it's gonna be uncomfortable because you're doing something different.

并不是因为你做错了什么，而是因为你正在尝试新的、不同的方式，而这正是目标所在——所以我们首先得开始追踪自己的想法，明白吗？

Not because you're doing something wrong, because you're doing something new and different, which is the whole goal, which means that when you have that, first we have to start tracking our thoughts, okay?

第一步是识别那些浮现出来的习得性无助的想法。

The first step is to recognize those learned helplessness thoughts that come up.

可能是‘我做什么都不够好’。

It could be the nothing I ever do is gonna be enough.

这永远不会成功的。

This is never gonna work out.

我知道，我不会得到那份加薪。

I'm not gonna I know this, I'm not gonna get that raise.

我从来得不到任何好东西，对吧？

I never get anything good, right?

无论那些消极的、自我限制的想法是什么——你可能已经很努力了，但结果永远都不会如愿——对你来说，我要你开始把这些想法写下来。

Whatever those negative kind of self limiting thoughts, could try really hard, but it's never gonna turn out, whatever that is for you, I want you to start writing those down.

我让你把这些写下来的原因是，希望你开始更清楚地意识到它们，这样当你想到它们时就能察觉到。

And the reason I want you to write them down is because I want you to start being more aware of them so you notice them when they come up.

因为如果我们连它们什么时候出现都不知道，又怎么能改变它们呢，对吧？

Because if we don't know when they're coming up, how are we supposed to change them, right?

我们做不到。

We can't.

所以，我要你去留意。

So I want you to notice.

然后，当我们对这种状态越来越熟悉时，我们会意识到，当我们自暴自弃、说事情不会变好时，一旦这种想法出现——‘这永远都不会变好’，我们就不再像以往那样退缩、逃避、封闭自己、忽视它，或者陷入抑郁，无论你通常的反应是什么，从现在开始，我们都不再那样做了。

And then, so we get more comfortable with that, we're recognizing that when we're talking trash, when we're saying things aren't gonna get better, and then I want you to start paying attention, that thought comes up, this is never gonna get better, and instead of what you'd normally do, which is probably retreat, pull away, shut down, ignore, maybe go into a depressive episode, whatever it is, instead of doing that, we're not gonna do those things anymore.

我们要用不同的方式行动。

We're gonna act in a different way.

我们还是要去尝试。

We're gonna try anyways.

我认为，最好先从一些我称之为‘低风险’的事情开始，也就是那些即使失败也不会对我们造成伤害的小事。

And I think it's probably easiest if we try kind of what I'd call low threat things, meaning like small things that we would that aren't gonna hurt us if it doesn't happen.

比如，我们希望找一件不需要太多精力或准备的事情，举个例子，假设我们收到了老板的一封邮件，我们笃定这肯定不会成功，他们不会给我们加薪，于是我们觉得‘这太糟了’。

You know, we wanna have it be something that doesn't take a ton of energy or a ton of preparation, but it's like, let's say, I don't know, we got an email from our boss and we're just sure that it's not gonna work out and they're not gonna give us the raise that we asked for, and we're like, you know, this is all terrible.

如果这时我们不选择退缩和忽视，而是去核实一下事实呢？

What if instead of just retreating and ignoring, what if we checked a fact?

或者，如果我们去询问或跟进一下呢？

Or what if we asked or we followed up?

或者，与其假装一切都很糟糕、这个人讨厌我、事情永远没希望，然后冷处理、直接离开，不如我们主动靠近，尤其是当我们身边有亲近的人时，我们可以告诉他们：‘我刚才有一些消极的想法，感觉和你有点疏远。’

Or what if instead of pretending that everything's horrible and this person hates me and it's never gonna work out and we ghost and we leave, what if instead we lean in and we especially if there's someone close to us, we'd tell them, Hey, I'm just having some negative thoughts about this and feeling like not connected.

我们之间一切都好吗？

Everything's good with us, right?

对，我们要互相关心一下。

Right, we check-in.

测一下温度。

Take the temperature.

现在我知道我刚才提到的那些事情可能太强烈了。

Now I know those things I mentioned might be too intense.

你知道吗，当你意识到这种想法出现时，无论那种想退缩、想逃避、想关闭自己的行为是什么，我都希望你不要那样做。

You know what you find, you're gonna recognize when this is up and whatever that behavior is, when you wanna pull back, when you wanna retreat, when you wanna shut down, I want you to not.

我希望你无论如何都要继续尝试。

I want you to keep trying anyways.

我希望你向前推进，因为我们这样做是为了慢慢向我们的大脑和身体证明，我们确实对生活拥有一定的掌控力，我们可以采取某些方式来保持动力、持续前行，我们并不是无能为力的，我们其实是充满力量的。

I want you to push forward because we're doing this with the goal of slowly proving to our brain and body that we do have some agency over our life, that we can act in certain ways that keep us motivated, keep us going, and that we aren't helpless, that we're actually empowered.

但如果我们没有实际的经历来支撑，我们是不会相信这一点的。

But we're not gonna believe that if we don't have the experiences to back it up.

所以我们必须为这些经历创造空间。

And so we have to create space for those experiences to happen.

是的，这需要时间。

Yes, it takes time.

是的，这需要练习。

Yes, it takes practice.

你不是一夜之间学会这种习得性无助的，所以我们也不会一夜之间就摆脱它。

You didn't learn this learned helplessness overnight, so we're not gonna unlearn it overnight either.

所以请对自己耐心一点。

So be patient with yourself.

每次你做出不同的行为时，我希望你在心里庆祝一下，想着：卡蒂一定会非常兴奋。

And each time you act differently, want I you to like celebrate in your head, be like, Kati would be so excited.

她会像打开香槟一样庆祝，或者像吹响那些……叫什么来着？

She would be like popping the champagne or like blowing one of those, like, what are those called?

那些小派对小道具，会发出声音的，那东西叫什么？

Those little party favors that go, know, what are those things?

你知道我在说什么。

You know what I'm talking about.

我会为你做所有这些，因为我知道这有多不舒服，但我需要你无论如何都要去做。

I would be doing all of that for you because I know how uncomfortable it is, but I need you to do it anyways.

你需要深呼吸，静下心来面对它。

I need you to breathe and sit with it.

我们会慢慢向我们的大脑和身体证明，我们根本不是无能为力的。

And we'll slowly prove to our brain and body that we aren't helpless at all.

事实上，我们其实能掌控生活的很多方面，因为我们对自己拥有完全彻底的掌控权，明白吗？

In fact, we actually can control so much of our life because we have complete and total control over ourselves, okay?

我们继续看第六个问题。

Let's move on to question number six.

这个问题说，Kati，我放不下我的前男友。

This question says, Kati, I can't let go of my ex.

已经一年半了。

It's been a year and a half.

请帮帮我。

Please help me.

我喜欢这个问题。

I love this question.

这非常容易引起共鸣。

It's super relatable.

我认为我们每个人都曾在某个时刻想过，也许我们会复合。

I think all of us have at one point or another thought like, maybe we'll get back together.

事情可能会不一样。

Things could be different.

我们可以在一起非常幸福。

We could be so happy together.

我忘了那个词了，但其实心理学上有一个术语，用来描述只记得巅峰和结尾的体验。

And I'm forgetting the term, but there's actually a psychological, like, word that they created for the experience of only remembering, like, the peaks and the ending.

我刚才在视频里刚用过。

I just did it for a video.

如果你记得，刚看过那个视频的话，请告诉我。

If you remember, if you just watched that video, let me know.

请在评论区告诉我。

Let me know in the comments.

但我忘了它叫什么了。

But I'm forgetting what it's called.

就像是高峰和高峰效应，高峰和某种效应。

It's like the peak and the peak effect, peak and something effect.

但不管怎样，你只记得一段关系中的高潮和它的结局。

But anyways, you only remember the peaks of a relationship and how it ended.

如果你仔细想想，每当我们回望一段关系，尤其是当我们感到孤独和疏离时，我们会回望那段关系，只看到美好的部分。

And if you think about it, whenever we look back on a relationship, especially if we're lonely and feeling disconnected, we look back on that relationship and we only see the good things.

我们忘记了为什么分手。

We forget why we broke up.

我们忘记了这段关系为何恶化。

We forget why the relationship deteriorated.

我知道你们中有些人可能会想，是他们提的分手。

And I know for some of you might be like, well, they broke up with me.

通常都是有原因的。

There's usually a reason.

通常都会有一些隔阂，比如我们——我也经历过这样的关系——把一段关系想象成了它本来不是的样子。

There's usually some kind of disconnect, whether it was that we, and I've been in these relationships too, where we are making the relationship out to be something that it's not.

我可以做很大的梦，各位。

Like, I can dream a big dream, you guys.

我可以变得非常兴奋。

I can get so excited.

我热爱爱情。

I love love.

我可以非常浪漫，这很好，但也可能让我陷入灾难，因为我可能会想象一段关系充满激情、关爱、美好，并为我们勾勒出宏伟的未来。

I can be such a romantic, and that can be great, or it can be devastating for me because I can imagine a relationship to be like really intense and loving and caring and wonderful and create this big dream for the future for us.

而对方却觉得：‘嗯，她还行吧。’

And the other person is like, meh, she's okay, right?

当这段关系结束时，我会感到心碎。

And then I can be devastated when the relationship ends.

所以我认为，有时候我们不愿放走这些人，并不是因为这段关系健康、充满爱意和美好，而是因为我们只记得那些美好的部分。

And so I think sometimes when we don't let these people go, it's not because that relationship was healthy and loving and amazing, it's because we only remember the good parts.

因此，我要问你们一个问题，这是一个充满真挚关爱的艰难答案——我要你们做一件听起来很残酷的事，但这件事能帮助你真正放下。

And so I'm gonna ask you, this is that tough love answer, I'm gonna ask you to do something that sounds horrible, but is what's gonna help you let this go.

我希望你们转而回忆那些糟糕的时刻。

I want you instead to remember the bad times.

我希望你们花点时间想想他们让你经历的所有糟心事。

I want you to spend a little time thinking about all the shit they put you through.

他们是怎么伤透你的心的？

How did they break your heart?

他们是和你分手的吗？

Did they break up with you?

这一切是怎么发生的？

How did this happen?

他们说了什么？

What did they say?

他们根本没说什么吗？

Did they even say anything?

他们给你发过一些糟糕的短信吗？

Did they send you some shitty texts?

是不是像《欲望都市》那样，只留了张便利贴？

Is it like Sex and City where it was like a Post it note?

对不起。

I'm sorry.

做不到。

Can't.

别恨我。

Don't hate me.

到底发生了什么？

Like, what happened?

我希望你能诚实面对，记住那些糟糕的时光。

I want you to be honest and remember those bad times.

那些时候他们两天都不回你的消息，或者答应带你去某处却根本没有兑现。

The times they didn't respond to your text for two days, or they told you they're gonna take you somewhere and they didn't follow through.

当他们在非常重要的时刻突然消失，或者忘记给你买生日卡片——我这只是随便举些例子，但你知道我说的是什么。

When they decided to ghost you at a very important time or forgot to get you a birthday card, I'm just making up a bunch of stuff, but you know what I'm talking about.

我想让你正视这些垃圾，因为你一直在忽略它们。

I want you to acknowledge the garbage because you're overlooking it.

你戴着玫瑰色的眼镜看问题。

You've got rose colored glasses on.

你回望这段关系，觉得它本可以成为对的那一个。

You're looking back at this relationship thinking it could have been the thing.

这 Again，我知道这是个狠话，但我这么做是因为我们都经历过，你不仅需要有人把你摇醒，我坚信，真正属于你的东西，终究会成真。

And this is, again, I know this is a tough love answer, but I'm just doing it because we've all been there, and it's not as you just need someone to shake you out of it, but I am a firm believer in that the things that are meant to work out just do.

你逃不开属于你的东西。

You can't run from the things that are meant for you.

他们会找到你的。

They'll find you.

而且，你无法强求那些不属于你的东西。

And also, you can't chase things enough that aren't meant for you.

所以，如果某件事是属于你的，你逃不掉的。

So if something's meant for you, you can't get away from it.

它终将发生。

It's gonna happen.

做好准备。

Get ready.

如果某件事不属于你，不管你跑得多远、抗争多激烈、追逐多拼命、哭得多伤心，它都不会属于你。

And if something isn't meant for you, I don't care how much you run and fight and chase and cry, it's not coming for you.

我们越早承认这一点——包括我自己在内——你就越能感到自由。

And the sooner we can all acknowledge that, myself included, the freer you feel.

因为我的一生中，我不知道这是否能引起共鸣，但我一直觉得，只要我能掌控一切，我就是个控制狂，你们都知道这一点。

Because so much of my life, I don't know if this resonates with anybody, but I've felt like if I just control things, I'm such a control freak, you guys know this.

我正在恢复中，但还没完全好。

I'm like recovering, but still there.

我觉得如果我以某种方式行事——被动攻击，用特定方式说某句话，或者对这个人采取这种态度，就能让他们意识到；或者如果我表现得足够冷淡，肖恩就会问我为什么不开心，你知道的？

I think if I act in a certain way, passive aggressive, if I say this thing this some kind of way, or if I act this way around this person, then I'll get them to realize, or if I'm just put off enough, Sean will ask why I'm upset, you know?

不，这太不健康了。

No, that's so unhealthy.

直接说出来吧，坦率地说出来，对吧？

Come out and say it, say it directly, right?

但我却在试图控制那些我无法掌控的事情。

But I'm trying to control things that are out of my control.

我还在执着于不属于我的东西，拼命确保自己能做这件事，或者拥有那件东西，或者，你知道的，如果我再发一封邮件，他们就终于会给我升职，或者那笔交易就会成真。

And I'm trying to cling on to things that aren't mine, make sure that I can still do this thing or that I have that thing, or, you know, if I send that another email, then finally that they'll I'll get that promotion or that deal will come through.

不。

No.

不会的。

It won't.

我们已经做了所有应该做的事情。

We've done all the things that we're supposed to do.

你在那段关系中出现了。

You showed up in that relationship.

你为那个人付出了。

You were there for that person.

结果并不顺利。

It didn't work out.

我只是相信，事情本就该是这样发展的。

And I just believe that that's the way that things are supposed to be.

该成的事，自然就会成。

Things that work out just work.

回想你曾经拥有的任何关系，无论是友谊还是职业机会，那些顺利发生的事，都是因为它们本该如此。

If you think of any relationship you've ever had, whether it's a friendship or even an opportunity in your career, those are like things worked out because they were supposed to.

最近，我一直在思考我生命中的奇迹，那些发生的一切，没有理由，我也无法提前准备，甚至没有预料到，比如我遇见Sean的方式，或者我一些朋友的出现，所有让这些事最终实现的条件，都恰好凑齐了。

Lately, I've been thinking about like miracles in my life, like all the things that happened, there's no reason or I couldn't have prepared for it, I didn't expect it, even the way that I met Sean or even some of my friends, like all the things that had to fall into place for those things to come to fruition, it just did.

当一件事结束时，是因为它本就不该发生，对吧？

And when something ends, it's because it wasn't supposed to be, right?

那些事情就是没有凑在一起。

Those things just didn't line up.

我知道这又是个糟糕的答案，但我们得花些时间思考它为什么没成功的原因。

And I know that's a, again, shitty answer, but we're gonna have to spend some time thinking about the reasons that it didn't work.

我鼓励你，这将是下一个层次。

And I encourage you, and this is gonna be the next layer.

所以我们已经思考过它为什么没成功、对方做过的糟糕事，以及他们如何伤害了我们。

So we've thought about the reasons it didn't work and the shitty things they did and the ways that they hurt us.

然后，我希望你开始构想你下一段关系中想与之相伴的人是谁，这个人是谁？

And then I want you to start putting together who you think the next person you'd wanna be with, like who is this person?

他们长什么样子？

What do they look like?

他们具备哪些特质？

What types of attributes do they have?

他们诚实吗？

Are they honest?

他们友好吗？

Are they friendly?

他们外向吗？

Are they gregarious?

你想要一个特别健谈的人吗？

Do you want someone that's super chatty?

他们不太社交吗？

Are they not very social?

他们更喜欢待在家里吗？

Do they prefer to stay in?

他们喜欢旅行吗？

Do they like to travel or not?

他们喜欢狗、猫、豚鼠，或者别的什么动物吗？

Do they love dogs or cats or guinea pigs or whatever?

你知道吗，想想所有这些，因为我不想让你再纠结于那个已经离开我们、或者我们离开他、关系结束、一切都不顺利的过去的人，我希望你能展望未来，去遇见一个更适合你的人，一个不会让你悬而未决、真心想和你在一起、并以你需要的方式陪伴你的人。

You know, think about all of that because I want you instead of focusing on this past person who left us or we left them and it ended and things didn't work out, I want you to look forward to a different person who is a better fit for you, someone who doesn't leave you hanging and someone who wants to be with you and is showing up for you in the way that you need.

让我们聚焦于此。

Let's focus on that.

然后，我从我的朋友艾米那里听到了这些。

And then I got this from my friend Amy.

她不久前上过我的播客。

She was on my podcast a while ago.

如果你还没看过，我强烈建议你去看看。

If you didn't watch it, would encourage you to do do so.

但她提到，一旦你列出了你想与之相伴的人的特质，就要想象一下，你需要成为怎样的人，才能吸引这样的伴侣。

But she talked about once you have that list of who the person that you wanna be with is, then imagine who you need to become to attract that kind of person.

这能为你提供一些个人成长的方向。

And that gives you some of that personal work.

对吧？

Right?

如果那个人这么厉害，那我也得变得厉害才行。

Well, if that person's such a badass, then I need to be a badass.

好吧。

Okay.

那这意味着我得停止这些消极的自我对话了。

Well, then that means I gotta stop this negative self talk.

我得把事情理顺了。

I gotta get my shit together.

你知道的。

You know?

我得开始多出去走走了。

I need to need to start getting out more.

我得更友好一点，或者 whatever 吧。

I need to be friendlier or whatever it is.

对吧？

Right?

也许我该回去接受治疗，你知道的，那是什么呢？

Maybe I need to get back in therapy, you know, what is it?

我知道这可能不是你想要的答案，但我希望这能帮助你向前走。

I know that that might not be the answer you're looking for, but I'm hopeful that that's the answer that will help you move on.

因为当事情不如意时，我知道这令人崩溃。

Because when things don't work out, I know it's devastating.

我不指望你能迅速走出来，但一年半了，我想我们已经哀悼过了。

I don't expect you just to move on quickly, but a year and a half, I think we've grieved.

允许自己哀伤也没关系。

It's okay to let yourself grieve too.

也许另一部分原因是，你还没有让自己去感受它。

Maybe that's another piece of it is you haven't let yourself feel it.

但一旦我们做到了，就必须记住为什么这段关系结束了。

But once we've done that, then we have to remember why it ended.

我们常常假装，倾向于只看到积极的一面。

We often pretend, we like tend to just look at the positives.

坚持下去，好吗？

Hang in there, okay?

外面一定有个人非常适合你，不会像这次这样让你觉得这么艰难，好吗？

There's somebody out there for you that will be a perfect fit that won't feel like such a battle like this one, okay?

我们来回答第七个问题。

Moving on to question seven.

这个问题说：嗨，卡蒂，希望你过得不错。

This question says, Hey, Kati, hope you're doing well.

我很好，希望你也不错。

I am, I hope you're doing well.

谢谢你在这个频道所做的一切。

Thank you for everything you do in this channel.

治疗对我来说太贵了，而你的视频非常有帮助。

Therapy is so hard to afford for me and your videos have been very helpful.

我太高兴了，太好了。

I'm so glad, yay.

你能谈谈社交焦虑和有毒羞耻感吗？

Can you talk about social anxiety and toxic shame?

因为社交焦虑，我避开了很多社交场合，也不敢独自做事情。

Because of social anxiety, I avoided lots of social situations and was scared to do things on my own too.

我没有经历很多同龄人经历的事情。

I didn't experience many things that people my age did.

我觉得自己对朋友来说是个负担，他们只是在礼貌地对待我。

I feel like I'm a burden for my friends and they are just being nice.

哦，听听你这种自我对话。

Oh, listen to that self talk.

好吧，我甚至不会深入讨论社交焦虑。

Okay, I'm not even gonna really talk about social anxiety.

我要谈谈羞耻感，因为不知出于什么原因，我鼓励你以好奇而非评判的态度去看待这一点。

I'm gonna talk about the shame because you have, for whatever reason, and I'd encourage you to be curious, not judgmental about this.

你觉得为什么回避社交或在社交中感到困难会让你觉得自己是个负担？

Why do you think that you avoiding social things or having a tough time with it has made you a burden.

我们是从哪里听到这种说法的？

Where did we hear that?

或者我们为什么会有这种想法？

Or why do we think that?

这种信念是从哪里来的？

Where does that belief come from?

我希望你能保持好奇。

I want you be curious.

再次强调，不要评判，只是好奇。

Again, not judgmental, just curious.

我们只是在这里做一些侦探工作，对吧？

We're just doing some detective work here, right?

你内心有一种评判，它让你相信，因为你的社交焦虑，你本身就有问题。

There's some kind of judgment that you have in there that has caused you to believe that because of your social anxiety that something's wrong with you.

因为羞耻感，记住，不是那种‘对不起’，也不是我做错了什么或者我感到尴尬。

Because shame, remember, isn't like, oh, sorry, it isn't that I did something wrong or that, I'm embarrassed.

我觉得自己本质上就有问题，好像我坏了。

It's something's intrinsically wrong with me, like I'm broken.

我很想知道这种信念是从哪里来的。

And I'm curious where that belief came from.

这可能与你对自己说话的方式有关。

It might be in the way that you talk to yourself.

如果是这样，那你就能明白我的意思了。

If that's the case, then you can kinda see where I'm going with this.

我们需要做一些过渡性的表达，对吧？

We're gonna have to do some bridge statements, right?

过渡性表达是对我们自我对话方式的小调整，从消极转向积极。

Bridge statements are small shifts in the way that we talk to ourselves, moving it from a negative into a positive.

记住，我们不能一下子跳得太远。

Remember, we can't do that huge jump.

那就像有毒的积极心态。

That's like toxic positivity.

比如你心里想，我真蠢、又胖又丑，然后突然之间你对自己说，不，我美丽极了，聪明绝顶，还是这世上最棒的人，你的大脑肯定会说：什么？

Like if you think, oh, I'm so stupid, fat, ugly, and then all of a sudden you're like, no, I'm beautiful, super intelligent, and, you know, the wonder most wonderful person on this earth, your brain's gonna be like, what?

我们不相信这种话。

We don't believe that.

我们已经相信这种想法很久了。

We've been believing this forever.

我们怎么能一下子跳到那种想法呢？

How are we gonna jump to this?

我们必须搭一座桥。

We have to build a bridge.

所以我们得从‘我是朋友的负担’开始搭桥。

So we're gonna build a bridge from, I'm a burden to my friends.

我太难搞了，或者类似这样的话。

I'm so difficult or whatever.

这些只是我在这里听到的一些想法。

Those are just the things I'm kind of hearing through here.

我比同龄人落后了。

I'm behind for my age.

我们要构建一个过渡性的陈述，比如：也许我的朋友们并不觉得我像自己想的那样是个负担。

And we're going to bridge statement it where we're like, it's possible that maybe my friends don't think I'm quite as big of a burden as I think I am.

也许，有可能，我们并不确定。

Maybe, possibly, we don't know.

我没那么严重。

I'm just not quite as big.

听起来很相似，但我不知道你怎么样，我一说就能感觉到差别。

And that sounds so similar, but I don't know about you, I can feel the difference when I say it.

感觉完全不同。

It feels very different.

我认为当我们对自己说那些刻薄的话时，我们会说得那么确凿、那么直接，仿佛这就是真相，砰。

I think when we say nasty statements to ourself, we say them so factual, so direct that like, this is the truth, boom.

事情就是这样，等等，句号。

This is how it's happening, yada, period.

而且我们把它说得像事实一样，砰。

And we it's like factual, boom.

但当我们稍微放宽一点，说‘有可能，这也许是对的’，我们就打开了它可能并不完全真实的可能。

But when we open it up a little bit and we're like, it's possible, maybe this could be true, we open it up to it might not be fully true.

它并没有说这不是真的。

It doesn't say it's not true.

它也没有说这是真的。

It doesn't say it is true.

我们正处在中间，而真正的成长恰恰就发生在这里。

We're right in that middle and that's really where growth can happen.

在这里，我们才能开始改变与自己的对话方式。

That's where we can start changing the conversation that we have with ourselves.

我甚至想进一步挑战你，去寻找一些事实来证明你并不是负担，你只是恰好处在你需要的位置。

And I would even challenge you further to look for some facts to support the fact that you are not a burden and that you are just where you need to be.

我们找到我们所寻找的东西。

We find what we look for.

就像你终于看到一辆新车，然后你就会发现，天啊，现在到处都是这种车。

It's like when you finally see a car, a new car out, and you're like, oh my god, now I see it everywhere.

比如那款Rivian皮卡，我发誓有一阵子我到处都能看到它。

Like that Rivian truck, I swear I saw it everywhere for a while.

我当时想，天啊，每个人都有这种车。

I was like, oh my god, everybody has them.

没有。

No.

我只是知道了那是什么，然后就开始到处看到它。

I just knew what it was, and then I started to see it everywhere.

所以，如果你在寻找某样东西，你就会找到它。

And so I want you, if you're looking for it, you will find it.

我希望你去寻找那些能证明你是个很棒的朋友、朋友们爱你、你不是负担的证据。

I want you to look for things that support the fact that you are a wonderful friend and your friends love you, you are not a burden.

我希望你去寻找那些能证明你正处在应该在的位置、你一点也不落后、你正在做你能做到的事情的证据。

I want you to look for things that prove that you are right where you're supposed to be, that you're not behind at all, that you're doing the things that you can do.

去找那些事情，因为你一定会找到，但我们必须主动去寻找。

Look for those things because you'll find them, but we have to look for them.

我们常常只关注负面的东西，这就是所谓的负面偏见，对吧？

We often just look for the things, it's the negative bias, right?

我们的大脑倾向于寻找威胁，因此它总是寻找支持负面情绪的证据，这毫无帮助，只会让我们感觉糟糕。

Our brain wants to look for threats, so therefore it means it's always looking for things to support the negative, not helpful, makes us feel like shit.

那我们来试试看，然后回来汇报一下，好吗？

So let's give that a go and then report back, okay?

最后一个问题是，第八个问题说：嘿，卡蒂，什么时候是寻求心理咨询的合适时机？

Final question, question number eight says, hey, Kati, when is the right time to seek therapy?

我非常喜欢这个问题。

I love this question.

我已经感到精疲力尽和疲惫至少三年了。

I've been feeling burnt out and exhausted for at least three years.

我觉得什么方法都没用。

I feel like nothing is helping.

寻求治疗的正确时间就是今天，甚至是昨天。

The right time to seek therapy is today, yesterday, in fact.

我坚信每个人都能从治疗中受益。

I believe firmly that everyone can benefit from therapy.

我也亲身经历过，从15岁起就断断续续接受治疗，事实上，当我意识到自己需要重新开始治疗时，通常要过六个月才会付诸行动。

And I also know and speak from, I've been in and out of therapy since I was 15, and the truth is that when I know I need to get back in therapy, it probably takes me a good six months before I do it.

我只是坦诚相告。

I'm just being honest.

所以不要因为自己拖延了这么久而自责。

So no judgment that it's taken you a while.

我也要花很长时间才去。

It takes me a while.

为什么呢？

Why?

因为太贵了。

It's expensive.

这很耗时。

It's time consuming.

我也刚搬到一个新地方，得找一个新的治疗师。

I also I'm in a new area and I'd have to find a new therapist.

你知道，所有这些都可能让人感到压力。

You know, all of that can be stressful.

这可能很难。

It can be hard.

但事实是，寻求治疗的最好时机就是现在。

But the truth is the right time to seek therapy is now.

如果我们曾经感到不知所措，曾经感到压力山大——我们其实一直如此，拥有一位治疗师能为我们提供一个安全的空间来倾诉。

If we've ever felt overwhelmed, if ever felt stressed out, we all do all the time, having a therapist in place can really give us that safe space to talk about it.

在我们一天或一生中的其他任何时刻，都不可能有整整五十分钟或一小时，完全专注于我们自己、我们的想法和感受，有人静静地陪伴、倾听——我们在生活的其他任何地方都得不到这样的时刻。

There's never another time in our day or in our life where we get like fifty minutes or an hour just dedicated to us, what we're thinking, how we're feeling, having someone sit there and hold the space and listen, we don't get that in any other part of our life.

因此，这真的很重要。

And so it's really important.