过度付出为何正在损害你的健康与人际关系

而且，不幸的是，一旦这事儿开了头，我就很难脱身了。

And, unfortunately, it's almost like once it gets started, it's hard for me to get out of it.

但我想知道，你觉得我是不是漏掉了哪个环节，或者这个循环里还缺了什么？这确实是我自己的切身体会。

But, again, I'd love to know if you think I'm missing a rung there or a piece of the cycle, but that's kind of how it's been experienced for me.

不过现在我想深入聊聊这个话题。

But I wanna dig into now.

咱们来谈谈研究吧，因为你们绝对想不到，我发现了特别有意思的东西。

Let's move into the research because, you guys, I found this fascinating.

我本来只想讲讲鲍恩的理论，一会儿会提到，但那其实并不是我觉得关于过度付出最有价值的研究。

At first, I was just gonna get into Bowen's theory, which I'll mention in a little bit, but that's not even what I would call, like, the most valuable research about overfunctioning.

有三项研究专门讲这个，它们证明了我们不是在瞎编，这种现象也不是新出现的，而且对我们的身心健康和人际关系伤害真的很大。

There are three studies about this, and it just proves that we're not making it up and what we're doing isn't new, and it's also really damaging to ourselves and our relationships.

首先，感谢 BiOptimizers 对本期节目的赞助。

And the first thank you to BiOptimizers for sponsoring today's episode.

你有没有过这样的阶段：明明什么事都干了，醒来却还是觉得精疲力尽？

Have you ever had one of those stretches where you're doing all the things and somehow still waking up exhausted?

也许你的睡眠变浅了，脑子也总是昏昏沉沉的，或者就是很难真正放松下来。

Maybe your sleep feels lighter, your brain feels foggier, or it's just harder to fully relax and unwind.

我最近在深入了解一件事：在围绝经期和绝经期，荷尔蒙变化会影响体内的镁含量。

Something I've been learning more about is how during perimenopause and menopause, hormonal shifts can affect magnesium levels.

是啊。

I know.

而镁对放松、睡眠质量以及缓解压力都至关重要，所以我开始服用 BiOptimizers 的 Magnesium Breakthrough。

And magnesium plays an important role in things like relaxation, sleep quality, and stress support, which is why I started taking Magnesium Breakthrough by BiOptimizers.

让我特别在意的是，它不是只含一种镁，而是七种不同形态的组合，能更全面地帮助放松和改善睡眠。

What stood out to me is that it's not just one form of magnesium, it's a blend of seven different types designed to support relaxation and overall sleep quality in a more comprehensive way.

如果你也感兴趣，不妨和我一起试试看。

If you've been curious, try it with me.

留意一下你的睡眠习惯，早上醒来时的感觉有什么变化。

Pay attention to your sleep routine, how you feel waking up in the morning.

而且完全不用担心，因为 BiOptimizers 提供整整 365 天无理由全额退款保证。

And there's really no downside because BiOptimizers offers a three sixty five day, no questions asked, money back guarantee.

访问 bioptimizers.com/kati 并输入代码 Kati，你就能获得这些福利。

Here's what you get when you go to bioptimizers.com/kati and use code Kati.

全单享受八五折，再免费送一瓶 Masszymes。

15% off your entire order plus a free bottle of Masszymes.

使用我们的专属代码，系统会自动为你添加 Optimizers 最畅销的消化酶。

Buy optimizers best selling digestive enzyme added to your order automatically when you use our exclusive code.

这瓶价值二十美元的产品，现在是额外免费送的。

That's a $20 product free on top of your discount.

这个优惠是限时的，库存有限，售完即止。

This is a limited time offer and while supplies last.

亚马逊上买不到这个优惠。

You can't get this on Amazon.

实体店也买不到。

You can't get it in stores.

只有在这一个地方才能享受到。

This offer exists in one place.

我的链接，我的代码，就这么简单。

My link, my code, that's it.

如果你本来就想试试，那现在就是最好的时机。

So if you were already thinking of trying it, this is your sign.

去 buyoptimizers.com/kati，输入代码 Kati，赶紧下单，别等没了。

Go to buy optimizers.com forward /kati, use code Kati, and grab it before it's gone.

关于这个话题有三项研究，它们都证明了我们不是在编故事，我们做的事也不是什么新花样，而且它确实对我们的身心健康和人际关系造成了严重伤害。

There are three studies about this, and it just proves that we're not making it up and what we're doing isn't new, and it's also really damaging to ourselves and our relationships.

第一项研究出现在上世纪九十年代末，讲的是一种叫‘无限制利他’的现象。

And And the the first study came out in the late nineteen nineties, and it's all about what is called unmitigated communion.

这名字听着挺学术，但你先听我说。

Now that's like a fan a fancy phrase, but stick with me.

我来给你解释清楚它是什么意思。

I'll explain to you what it means.

上世纪九十年代末，卡内基梅隆大学的两位研究者，维基·赫格森和海蒂·弗里茨，提出了一个关键区别，我觉得所有陷入过度付出循环的人都该知道。

In the late nineteen nineties, two researchers at Carnegie Mellon, Vicky Hegelsen and Heidi Fritz, drew a distinction that I think every person who's stuck in this, like, overfunctioning loop needs to know about.

他们把两个在日常语言中混为一谈的概念分开了。

They separated two things that get lumped together in everyday language.

所谓‘连接’，其实就是人与人之间的联结。

There's communion, which really means connection.

就是彼此靠近、相互呼应。

It's like coming together.

这其实是我们关系中真正健康的样子。

It's like a healthy version of what we're looking for in our relationships.

我们关心他人。

We care about other people.

彼此温暖，彼此连结。

We're warm and connected with each other.

在关系里，我们愿意真诚地出现。

We show up in our relationships.

‘连接’本身并没有错。

Communion itself is good.

这挺有意思的。

Now it's funny.

我第一次看到‘纯粹的联结’这个词时，真的很难把它和宗教分开。

When I read this first, like, unmitigated communion, I had a tough time, like, untangling it from religion.

因为我从小在宗教环境中长大。

It's just because I grew up in religion.

所以这里说的不是那种意义上的联结。

So it's, like, not that kind of communion.

这里说的其实就是聚在一起，更偏向于社区感，而不是宗教意义上的联结。

It's just, like, coming together, community more than communion.

明白吗？

Okay?

联结本身是好事。

Communion itself is good.

总的来说，研究显示，人与人之间的联结和互动，对我们的心理健康真的很有好处。

And in general, when we look at research, coming together and that connection with other people is actually really good for our mental health.

对吧？

Right?

我们通过多迷走神经理论知道，人需要与他人建立联系才能感到平静。

We know like through polyvagal theory that we need connection with other people to feel soothed.

但有一种叫‘无界限的联结’，这种联结走得太远，以至于自我完全消失了。

However, there's this is unmitigated communion, which is communion taken so far that the self disappears.

它的定义是完全关注他人，完全忽略自己。

And it's defined as a focus on others to the exclusion of self.

我对此体会太深了。

I I felt felt this so hard.

赫格森和弗里茨在四项研究中发现，无界限的联结与联结感是有关联的。

Hegelsen and Fritz showed across four studies that unmitigated communion correlates with communion.

所以它们确实有关系。

So it is connected.

它确实能带来某种连接，但研究发现，当我们做得太过头时，它就变成了一种完全不同的东西，还会带来负面后果。

It's like does give us some kind of connection, but they found that when we do too much, it becomes an entirely separate thing and it predicts.

所以，当我们付出太多，以至于自我都消失了的时候，这非但对心理健康无益，反而会带来心理困扰、消极的自我认知，以及完全依赖他人来获得自我价值感。

So instead of it being good for our mental health, when we overgive so much so that our self disappears, it predicts psychological distress, a negative view of self, and reliance on others for any sense of self worth.

我觉得我真的很能理解这一点。

And I think I I can really agree with that.

我曾经一直有这样的问题：付出太多，责任过重，结果反而让自己压力更大，因为做的事情远远超出了一个人该承担的范围。

That, like, something I've struggled with as I've I overgive and as I'm overly responsible is that I feel more stressed out because I'm doing more than a person should.

然后就会冒出那种愧疚感，尤其是在你开始感到怨恨之后。

Then I'll think that, like, you know, that guilt that creeps in after we feel resentful.

我心想：天哪，卡蒂。

And I'm like, oh my god, Kati.

你真是太差劲了。

You're so terrible.

这就是一种消极的自我评价。

Like, a negative view of self.

我简直不敢相信自己会这么想。

Like, I can't believe you'd even think this.

你太自私了。

You're so selfish.

你怎么能这么想呢？他们已经尽力了。

Why would you even you know, they're doing the best they can.

随你便吧。

Whatever.

又开始自我贬低了。

Insert negative self talk.

别这么懒惰。

Don't be so lazy.

啰啰嗦嗦的。

Blah blah blah.

然后总是依赖别人来确认自己的价值。

And then the reliance on others for a sense of self worth.

直到今天，我还在努力摆脱这种心态。尤其是在十几岁、二十出头的时候，我总等着别人说‘谢谢’或者‘你做得真棒’，我才觉得自己有价值。

I am still to this day fighting my way out of that because I would I mean, especially in my early twenties and, like, teens, I would always look for other people to say, like, thank you or, wow, you did a good job on this.

我确实需要这个。

I needed that.

这太不健康了。

It's like, it's so unhealthy.

我自己心里清楚。

I I know it for myself.

但直到现在，如果有人主动这么做——我以前总想用含蓄的方式引诱别人这么说。

But even to this day, if somebody does it, like, unprompted because I used to try to prompt it, like, in passive ways.

我明白。

I know.

真是够扭曲的。

So messed up.

可现在一旦有人没被要求就这么做，我就会觉得，哎，这感觉像是一种奇怪的多巴胺刺激。

But I when it happens, like, unprompted now, I'm like, oh, it's like it's like a a weird, like, dopamine hit or something.

然后我就觉得，唉。

And and then I'm like, ugh.

我简直有点讨厌自己这一点，但还是没法摆脱。

I it's almost like I hate it about myself, but I still struggle with that.

当我们为了维持关系而压抑自己、不把自己放在首位时，就等于把太多权力交给了别人对我们的看法。

And I think that when we don't we don't put ourselves first, when we, like, shrink ourselves to keep connection, we put too much power on other people's opinions of us.

对吧？

Right?

我们好像在说，没有他们，我们就不存在了。

Because we don't exist without them is kind of what we're doing.

你明白我的意思吗？

Does that make sense?

如果不明白，随时告诉我。

Let me know if not.

我很乐意继续聊这个话题。

Happy to keep talking about it.

不过话说回来，研究发现，当我们过度付出，以至于把自己都丢了的时候，心理压力反而会更大。

But, anyways, they found this that when we overgive to the point where our self disappears, we have more psychological distress.

我们对自己有负面的看法，还特别依赖别人的评价来获得自我价值。

We have a negative view of self and a reliance on others for any sense of self worth.

我会把所有参考文献都放在节目笔记里，如果你想读这些文章，随时欢迎。

And I'll put all the citations in the show notes so that if you wanna read these articles, you're more than you're more than welcome to.

好了，接着说海格森和弗里茨，他们在后来的理论论文中提出了这个观点。

Anyways, moving on with this with Hegelsen and Fritz, they later argued in their theory paper.

记得啊，他们一共做了四项研究。

Remember, these were four studies they did.

他们认为，这正是为什么女性尤其容易出现这种情况——研究发现，大约67%的女性比男性更明显地存在这种倾向，这也是女性抑郁症发病率更高的原因之一。

They argued that this is part of why women in particular, they found that this happened by and large, I wanna say it was like sixty seven percent in women over men, that this is part of why women experience depression at higher rates.

传统的女性特质衡量标准，比如‘共情’，本身并不会预测抑郁，但‘无节制的共情’会，这个结论相当重要。

The traditional measure of female gender related traits, communion, doesn't in itself predict depression, unmitigated communion does, which is a huge statement.

所以我才特意强调，这个‘无节制的共情’，就是我所说的那种情况。

That's why I put it like This is like quote unquote, that essentially unmitigated communion.

当我们过度付出，以至于完全失去了自我，就更容易陷入抑郁。

So when we overgive to the point where we don't exist, that means that we are more likely to experience depression.

我读到这儿的时候，真的特别有共鸣。

And, yeah, as I was reading this, I was like, yes.

这话说得一点都没错。

I under that tracks.

因为当我们所有的自我价值都建立在自己做了什么，而不是自己是谁的时候，这种状态会让人感到特别无助和无力。

Because when all of our self worth comes from the things that we do, not just who we are, that is a very helpless and powerless place.

对吧？

Right?

因为我根本控制不了别人。

Because I don't have any control over other people.

这话我早就说过很多遍了，不仅是为了让你听清楚，也是为了提醒我自己——我们没法让任何人对我们感到骄傲。

I've said that for years, and it's some I say it as much just so that you can hear it, but also so that I can hear it that, like, we can't make anyone proud of us.

我们没法让任何人爱我们。

We can't make anyone love us.

我们也没法强迫任何人和我们建立联系。

We can't make anyone connect be connected to us.

这一切都得靠共同的经历或者彼此的吸引才能发生。

All of that has to happen through, like, shared experiences or shared desire.

对吧？

Right?

别人喜欢你，往往是因为你也喜欢他们，而且双方都能回应，但这种事情我没法强求。

People are gonna like us if we like them and it's reciprocated and it works out, but I can't make that happen.

我唯一能掌控的，只有我自己。

I can only control myself.

如果我把自己完全抹掉，把所有重心都放在别人身上，拼命想让他们开心，那别人怎么可能会想和我在一起？他们根本不知道我是谁。

And so when myself is, like, essentially making it so I don't exist, I'm putting everything on another person, I'm putting all my energy into making sure that they're happy, then how can anybody even want to be with me because they don't even know who I am?

你明白我的意思吗？

Does that make sense?

我这样讲清楚了吗？

Am I connecting that properly?

在我的脑子里，就是这样想的。

That's how it feels in my brain.

对我来说，我是在26岁做心理咨询时才意识到这一点的。

And that for me, I think I was like 26 in therapy when I realized that.

我当时就想，天哪。

I was like, oh my god.

根本没人了解我，因为我根本不让别人了解我。

Like, people don't even know me because I'm not letting them.

你懂的吧。

You know?

对。

Yes.

我可以生那个人的气，但就像我说过的一样，这其实是我自己造成的。

I can be mad at the person, but, like, again, it's it's like I've it's like I said in my book.

我把自己捆得死死的，然后还抱怨绳子太紧，我也不知道该怎么形容。

I'm like, I it's like I tied myself up, and then I'm complaining about how tight either the the I don't know.

那个词叫什么来着？

What's the word?

那些束缚就是这样。

Like, the bindings are.

你这是在干嘛呢？

It's like, what are you doing?

对吧？

Right?

我觉得这项研究特别有意思。

So I found this study to be particularly interesting.

但现在又出现了一个。

But now there's another.

我刚才说了，一共有三个。

So like I said, there's three.

这种过度负责不仅害了你。

Not only does this overfunctioning harm you.

对吧？

Right?

这简直就是无条件的利他行为。

That's like the unmitigated communion.

这意味着我们更容易抑郁，感觉更孤立，自我价值感也会很低。

It means that we can have a higher likelihood of depression and feel less connected, and we can have a low sense of self worth.

但它同样会损害我们的关系。

But it also harms our relationships.

我想特别提一下这项研究，因为作为本身就有这个问题的人，我发现自己总是太在意别人，以至于很难单凭知道它对我自己的伤害就下定决心改变。

And this, I wanted to mention this particular study because I find sometimes as someone who struggles with this, that because I put so much emphasis on other people, it's really hard for me to want to change just because I know what it's doing to me.

我知道这听起来很奇怪，但我跟你说实话，只有当我意识到它也在影响我身边的人时，我才更有动力去改变。

I know that's so messed up, but I'm just being honest with you here that like it's easier for me to be more motivated to change when I know it's affecting other people too in my life.

你明白我的意思吗？

Does that make sense?

所以，这项研究发表于2020年《家庭心理学杂志》，研究人员追踪了——你敢信吗，他们居然做到了——

So anyway, this study was published in 2020 in the Journal of Family Psychology, and researchers followed and this is wild that they were able to do this.

研究人员追踪了德国1340对夫妻长达七年，真的太惊人了。

Researchers researchers followed 1,340 couples in Germany over seven years, you guys.

他们追踪了这种过度利他的行为。

They tracked unmitigated communion.

他们参考了哈格斯顿和弗里茨的研究。

So they took that study from it was a Hagleston and Fritz.

我特别喜欢他们的姓氏。

I love their last names.

哈格斯顿和弗里茨。

Hagleston and Fritz.

他们关注的是那种双方都失去自我的过度付出模式。

And they tracked that particular thing about overgiving so that the self doesn't exist in both partners.

明白吗？

Okay?

他们同时也追踪了伴侣关系的满意度。

And they track the relationship satisfaction as well.

他们观察到，当存在过度利他倾向时，伴侣关系的满意度会如何变化。

So they saw if there was an an unmitigated communion, and then they track the relationship satisfaction.

他们做了统计分析，来看这两者随着时间如何相互影响。

And they did statistical work to figure out how these two things move together over time.

如果一方过度付出，以至于失去了自我，他们就想弄清楚这种状态对整体关系满意度有什么影响。

So if there was a high level of unmitigated communion where one member of the couple was over functioning so much so that they don't exist, then they wanted to see how that connected or affected the satisfaction overall.

他们发现的结果有点复杂，你先听我说清楚。

And what they found now this is a little tricky, so hang with me here.

他们发现，一个人付出得越多，关系满意度下降的速度就越慢。

What they found is that the more someone gave, the slower their relationship satisfaction declined.

你现在听了可能在想，卡蒂，这听起来像是个好事啊。

Now you're probably listening to that thinking, Kati, that sounds like a win.

是的。

Yeah.

确实如此。

It does.

但其实这是个陷阱。

But it's actually a trap.

明白吗？

Okay?

因为过度付出就像胶水或者强力胶，把这段关系粘在一起。

Because the overgiving was acting like a glue or like a duct tape for the relationship.

它让两个人勉强维持着。

It was holding them together.

所以关系没快到足以逼他们做出改变的地步就崩溃了。

And so it kept the relationship from getting bad enough fast enough to force force a change.

根本没有那种让人忍不住想：‘这日子真没法过了’的时刻。

Like, there was no, like, big moment where they're like, ugh, fuck.

我得离开这段关系了。

I have to get out of this.

对吧？

Right?

通常来说，都没闹过什么大矛盾。

Usually, no big blow up.

它把两人维系在一起，让这段关系一直处在一种说不上好、但也算不上糟的状态。

It held them together so that things were just kinda not good for a long time.

所以根本没人被迫做出改变。

So there's no change that's forced.

这意味着，谁都没去解决这个问题。

What this means is that nobody fixed it.

谁也没选择离开。

Nobody left.

两个人在七年里慢慢耗尽了自己。

Both people just drained slowly throughout the seven years.

他们的满足感一路下滑。

Their satisfaction went down.

他们对这段关系越来越不满意，但因为那个过度付出的人一直在拼命修补，让一切看起来还行，他们就一直撑着没走。

And they felt less satisfied in the relationship, but because the person, the over the overfunctioner, the other person kept working so hard to make it all good or okay that they would just stick with it.

这种模式会让你困在原地。

And this pattern keeps you stuck.

但我最想让你明白的是，这并不会让你感到快乐。

And it but the thing that I really want you to hear is that it doesn't keep you happy.

所有数据都显示，那些处于过度共生关系中的人，没有一个真正感到满足。

No one in those relationships, when you look through all the data, no one in those relationships with unmitigated communion actually reported being satisfied in their relationships.

他们的感受更像是‘还行’到‘真糟’。

It was more like meh to bleh.

满意度是慢慢下滑的，但不像那些没有这种模式的关系那样，突然就崩了，说‘这关系挺好’。

It just went down, but it didn't go down as quickly as some of the ones without it would be like, oh, the relationship was good.

不对。

Oh, nope.

关系就结束了。

The relationship ended.

往往是急剧下滑，然后分手，之后反而好了。

It'd just be these, like, steep declines break up, and then they'd be fine.

对吧？

Right?

然后他们就退出了研究，因为他们已经不是一对了。

Then they're out of the study because they're not a couple anymore.

但这一点让我特别感兴趣，因为我常常以为——恕我直言——只要我一味付出，关系就会变好。

But that was fascinating to me because we often think or myself I should say speak for myself that, like, I often think that, like, oh, if I just give and give and give, it'll get better, and the relationship will be better.

过去我在友情甚至恋爱里，都这样持续了很久，我不禁想，是不是有些关系之所以能维持，就是因为我在拼命维系。

And I did that in friendships and even romantic relationships back in the day for so long, like, that I wonder if some relationships because I did that thinking it would hold us together.

我这么做，是希望一切能好起来。

I did that thinking it would make it okay.

但关系是两个人的事。

But relationships tape two people.

对吧？

Right?

你只能打扫好自己这一边的路。

You can only clean your side of the street.

所以我在读这些的时候一直在想，如果我从来不是那个过度付出、过度承担的人，是不是有些关系根本就不会开始。

And so I wonder as I was, like, reading through this, I'm like, I wonder if some of my relationships would have ever started if I wasn't always the one that was, like, overfunctioning or overgiving.

对吧？

Right?

比如说，我一开始谈恋爱的时候，如果对方特别依赖我，或者根本没把自己该做的事做好，我会不会觉得这人特别没吸引力，甚至根本不想和他发展关系？

Like, if I entered into a relationship and let's say the other person, like, want to lean on me too much or, I don't know, wasn't functioning fully, would I've found that super unattractive or frustrating and not gotten into that friendship or romantic relationship?

谁知道呢？

I mean, who knows?

对吧？

Right?

时间没法倒流。

You can't go back in time.

我也说不准。

I don't know.

但我最近一直在想，我以前和那个男生谈恋爱的时候，我总是包揽一切，他反而什么事都不做。

But I was really just thinking about that because I did have this relationship when I was dating this guy and he I was over functioning and therefore he was doing less.

我当时根本没意识到自己陷入了这种模式。

And I I didn't even realize this pattern.

幸运的是，我还没走到彻底爆发那一步。

Luckily, I didn't get to, like, the blow up space.

我的治疗师提醒了我。

My therapist pointed it out.

她说，感觉你总是付出更多，老是他让你去他那边。

She's like, it seems like, you know, you're doing a lot more of the giving and like him asking you to always come over to his area.

这挺累的，毕竟你工作时间也一样长。

That just seems like stressful because you work just as long of hours.

感觉这边那边，各种情况都不太对称。

And, you know, it seems like, you know, this, that, and the other.

她说，我只是有点好奇而已。

And she's like, I'm just curious about it.

于是我就决定，某个时间之后就不接电话了。

And so what I did is I stopped answering my phone after a certain time.

我不再临时跑他那边，反而希望他能多来我这边。

I would not make last minute trips to his part of town, and I wanted him to come to my part of town more often.

你猜怎么着？

And guess what?

我们分手了。

We broke up.

所以我一直在想，要是我当初根本没这么做，这段关系会不会根本就没开始？

And that's why I'm wondering if I, like, never did it in the first place, like, would the relationships have never gotten off the ground?

我不确定。

I don't know.

值得好好想想。

Just something to think about.

这真的让我很有共鸣。

That just really resonated with me.

因为我觉得，是啊，它不会让你开心，但肯定会把你困住。

Because I was like, yeah, it doesn't keep you happy, but it definitely keeps you stuck.

接下来我想聊的最后一个研究是：身体是如何记住一切的。

Now the last study that I wanna talk about is how your body keeps the score.

我知道我们都读过这本书。

Now I know we we all read the book.

但我说的不是这个意思。

That's not what this is about.

这跟贝塞尔·范德科尔克没关系。

It's not Bessel van der Kolk.

不过，他们创造了一个临床术语，来描述我之前说的那第二个台阶——就是不表达自己的需求。

However, they created a clinical term to to name, like, what that second rung of the, of the ladder that I was talking about, the not asking for what you need.

他们管这个叫‘自我沉默’。

They called this self silencing.

这个概念是达娜·克劳利·杰克在九十年代提出的。

And the framework was developed by Dana Crowley Jack in the nineteen nineties.

九十年代真是不容易啊。

God love the nineties.

那时候出了好多这类研究。

All these came out in the nineties.

意思是，有些人，尤其是女性，会压抑自己的表达。

The idea is that some people, women especially, inhibit their own self expression.

为了避免关系冲突或失去关系，我们不敢做真实的自己。

So don't we're not true to ourselves to avoid relationship conflict or loss.

我深有体会。

I feel that.

他们为了维持表面和平，选择对需求闭口不谈。

They go quiet about their needs to keep things smooth.

这是一种叙事性综述。

A narrative review.

所以这项研究的类型就是叙事性综述。

So that's the type of study this was, a narrative review.

他们整理了人们的真实经历。

So they reviewed the stories from people.

他们在2020年发表的这篇综述，梳理了近三十年的研究，发现自我沉默与抑郁、饮食失调，以及经前烦躁障碍之间存在关联。

They published in 2020, walked through, catch this, you guys, three decades of research linking self silencing to depression, eating disorders, and PMDD or premenstrual dysphoric disorder.

所以我们早就知道，自我压抑对心理健康有害。

So we already knew like, we know it's bad for our mental health.

我之前也提到过，像抑郁这类问题。

And I even said this earlier, depression and stuff like that.

当我们压抑自己时，这些问题的发生率会更高。

So when we self silence, there's higher rates of that.

后来又出现了一批新的数据。

What so there was a newer, body of data.

于是他们重新分析了这项研究。

So they took that study.

这项研究是在九十年代进行的。

So that was in the nineteen nineties.

他们研究了自我压抑的现象，并做了系统梳理。

They learned self silencing, and they reviewed it.

到了2020年，他们发布了这项成果。

And in 2020, they released that.

不过在2022年，另一项行为医学研究更进一步，专门调查了290名中年女性——也就是我这样的人——测量了她们在亲密关系中的自我沉默程度，并通过超声波检查了她们的颈动脉。

However, in 2022, another study by the of behavior behavioral medicine took it further, and they look specifically at 290 midlife women, that would be me, measured their self silencing in their intimate relationships and then did ultrasound assessments of their carotid arteries.

自我沉默程度越高，颈动脉斑块的风险也越高。

Higher self silencing was associated with higher odds of carotid plaque.

什么？

Like, what?

而且这一点非常重要，

Independent of, and this is very important.

也就是说，这和任何心血管风险因素都没有关联，

Independent of, so meaning not connected to in any way cardiovascular risk factors.

比如，不管你家族有没有病史，也不管你有没有抑郁、运动多不多、饮食好不好，

So, like, if you have in your family, independent of depression, independent of physical activity or diet.

这篇论文的标题叫《沉默的心血管代价》，

And the title of the paper is called, quote, unquote, the cardiovascular cost of silence.

这太可怕了。

And it's terrible.

研究显示，那些在关系中无法表达需求的女性，动脉粥样硬化更严重。

It said women that couldn't voice their needs in their relationships had more atherosclerosis.

说白了，身体在替我们承受那些嘴上说不出口的东西。

Essentially, long story short, the body was carrying what our mouth wouldn't say.

对吧？

Right?

这其实就是代价。

And so that's really just the cost.

不只是怨气的问题。

It's not just the resentment.

也不只是关系里的不开心或不满意。

It's not just the unhappiness or the lack of satisfaction in our relationships.

而是我们的心理健康和身体健康都在同时下滑。

It's actually our mental health is deteriorating as well as our physical health.

所以，不管怎样，这些信息真的挺难消化的。

And so I anyway, it's a lot to process.

我懂。

I get it.

不过呢，因为我就是这样的人，咱们不如聊聊能做点什么——我在这方面已经琢磨很久了，其实是可以慢慢改善的。

However, because I am who I am, let's talk about what we can do about it because I've been working on this a lot in my life, and we can get better at it.

这需要练习，更重要的是得有觉察。

It takes practice, and it also, you know, just takes awareness.

所以我整理了几点办法，可以试试。

And so I have a few things that we can do.

我记得应该是三个，如果没记错的话。

I think I put three together if I remember correct.

哦，不对，是四个。

Oh, four.

好的。

Okay.

第一步，这周你先做一件事：弄清楚你现在处在哪个阶段。

So first step, one thing that I want you to do this week is I want you to figure out what rung you're at.

我知道这可能有点难，就连我自己在整理这些层级的时候，也经常觉得，自己从一个阶段跳到下一个阶段特别快。

Now I know that might be difficult because even for me, when I was putting those rungs together, I'm like, sometimes I feel like I move on from one to the next really quickly.

但你还是试着看看，能不能弄清楚自己现在处在哪一级。

But just see if you if you can figure out where you are.

顺便提醒一下，第一级是过度付出。

And just to remind you, the rungs are you overgive is number one.

第二级是不表达自己的真实需求。

Then you don't ask what you ask for what you need, rung number two.

第三级是对方开始减少付出。

Three is that the other person adjusts and does less.

第四级是怨气在悄悄积累。

Four is that resentment builds quietly.

怨气会慢慢流露出来。

The resentment leaks out.

然后你就会突然爆发，或者选择回避。

You blow up or you withdraw.

最后，第六步是内疚感涌上来，于是你更加拼命地付出，想弥补一切，结果又回到了第一步。

And finally, number six is the guilt floods in, and then you overgive harder to repair, which lands you back at rung number one.

弄清楚我们现在处在哪一级台阶很有帮助，不是说现在就要立刻做点什么。

It's really helpful to figure out which rung we're at, not because we're gonna do anything with it right just yet.

第一步只是要意识到自己的状态。

First step is just awareness.

对吧？

Right?

我们得先明白自己到底卡在哪儿了。

We have to realize where we're at.

比如，我们是不是还停留在一味付出的阶段？

Like, are we just in the overgiving stage?

还是卡在了说不出自己真正需要什么这一步？

Are we stuck at the I can't ask for what I need?

你可能会想，我其实做了好多事。

And you might be like, I'm doing all these things.

这没关系。

That's fine.

没什么大不了的。

No big deal.

也许我们正在积累怨气。

Maybe we're the resentment is building.

我想让你知道，如果你已经进入下一阶段，那就说明你已经走出了上一个阶段。

And I want you to know that if you've moved on to the next, know that you're not in that one before.

比如，如果你没有提出自己的需求，那就说明你已经超越了过度付出，进入了下一个阶段。

So, like, the overgiving, if we're not asking for what we need, that means we've moved past overgiving and we're into that.

如果你已经感到怨恨，那就说明你已经走出了上一个阶段。

If we already feel resentful, we've moved past that.

所以，把自己定位在下一个阶段。

So put yourself at that next rung.

但再次强调，我们目前还不需要做任何处理。

But, again, we're not doing anything with it.

我们只需要弄清楚，自己是不是在对人发脾气，或者开始躲着别人。

We just kind of need to know if we feel like we're blowing up or withdrawing from people.

我们是不是感到内疚，需要去修复关系？

Do we feel guilty and we need to repair?

留意一下你现在所处的状态，保持觉察就行。

Notice where you're at and just be cognizant.

你甚至可以为每一段关系都做一遍这样的检查。

You could even do it for each and every relationship.

我整理这些东西的时候，就为自己几段关系做了分析，发现挺有意思的——能清楚看到自己在哪一步，也就能明白接下来该怎么做。

I did it for a few of mine when I was putting this together, and it's just interesting to see where you're at and recognize because that kinda tells you what you can do.

真正的改变，就是从这儿开始的。

That's where the work starts.

对吧？

Right?

如果我从不表达自己的需求，已经到了这一步，那会怎么样？

If I'm not asking for what I need, if I'm at that rung, guess what?

我可以试着表达出我的需求。

I can try to communicate what I need.

说起来容易，做起来对有些人来说可没那么简单。

I mean, easier said than done for some of us.

但如果我处在过度付出的状态，也就是第一级，也许我可以稍微退一步，这样就迈进了第二步。

But if I'm in the overgiving, if I'm in rung one, maybe I pull back a little bit, which moves me into step two.

第一步就是先意识到自己的状态。

So step one is just to be aware.

你现在处于哪个阶段？

Where are you at?

你最近怎么样？

How you doing?

你心里是什么感觉？

What you feeling?

现在发生什么事了？

What's happening?

第二步，你选一件小事，我亲自试过，效果真的很好，就是那种你平时会自动做的事。

And step two is I want you to pick one small thing, because I've done this, and it's it's actually worked out really well, that you would normally like automatically do.

没人会要求你做。

No one would ask you.

你本来就会主动去做。

You would just do it.

但这次，你别做了。

And I want you not to do it.

就选一件小事。

So pick one thing.

别声张。

Don't announce it.

别搞得跟大事一样。

Don't make a thing of it.

干脆就放下，别管它了。

Just leave it, like drop it.

水槽里没洗的碗，你平时会自动发给朋友的那条问候信息，或者你总记得安排的预约。

The dishes in the sink, the text you'd normally send to like check-in on someone, the appointment maybe you would always make.

就挑一件小事，一件你平时会不假思索就去做的事。

Just pick something small, something that you would do automatically.

别去做它。

Don't do it.

我知道。

I know.

然后试着和随之而来的焦虑待在一起，相信我，它一定会出现。

And then I want you to try to sit with the anxiety that comes along with it because trust me, it will come.

这种焦虑，说白了，其实是一种信息。

And the anxiety is honestly, it's it's more data.

它很有用，因为它提醒我们，不做这件事时，心里其实有点紧张或不安。

It's, like, helpful because it tells us it tells us that we feel a little bit stressed or a little bit threatened by not doing that thing.

接下来，我们可以带着好奇去观察，而不是去评判它。

And then we can be curious, not judgmental about it.

比如说，如果我不像往常那样洗水槽里的碗碟，我会有什么感觉？心里又会怎么解释这件事？

So for example, if I don't do the dishes in the sink when I normally would just do them, what what do I feel and what story do I tell myself about it?

再说一遍，如果我带着好奇而不是评判的态度，我不会想：‘算了，还是赶紧做了吧。’

Again, if I'm being curious, not judgmental, I'm not like, oh, just feel I'm just gonna do it anyway.

我也不在乎别人会怎么想。

Or I don't want them to think anything.

我就是不做。

I'm just gonna do it.

不行。

No.

不行。

No.

我们要和这种感觉待在一起。

We're gonna sit with it.

我们说‘与情绪共处’，意思就是允许自己去感受它，不逃避。

That's what we mean when we say, like, sit with our emotions is you just allow yourself to feel it.

好的。

Okay.

我有点紧张，这种情况真的发生了。

I feel a little anxious and this is happening.

好的。

Okay.

我对自己说了什么？

What am I telling myself?

然后我们就能触及这个想法，因为对我而言真正有帮助的是，我意识到自己总觉得只有做了某事、某事或某事，才值得被认可。

And then we can tap into that story because that's what's really helpful for me is then I realized that I thought I was only valuable if I did x, y, or z.

我以为只有当我能给予些什么时，别人才会喜欢我。

I thought people would only like me if I had something to give.

我以为关系就是这样的。

I thought that that was how relationships worked.

你觉得呢？

But what do you think?

对你来说，这种感觉是怎样的？

What does this feel like for you?

留意一下。

Pay attention.

只是好奇，别带着评判。

Just, again, curious, not judgmental.

还记得我之前跟你说过鲍温的家庭理论吗？我正要讲这个。

Now remember I told you about Bowen's family theory that I was gonna get into it?

在鲍温的家庭系统理论里，这叫故意表现得能力不足。

In Bowen's family systems work, they call this deliberate underfunctioning.

太棒了。

Love it.

之所以有效，是因为它打断了这种相互作用的模式。

And the reason that it works is that it interrupts the reciprocal pattern.

记得吗？对方之前一直在适应我们过度承担的情况。

Remember that other person's been adjusting to the fact that we're, like, overfunctioning.

如果你停下来，对方通常会有两种反应。

If you stop, they have one of two responses they can give you.

他们可能会注意到盘子还堆在水槽里。

They can notice that the dishes are in the sink.

我会继续用这个例子，他们就会主动去洗碗，因为他们本来就有这个能力。

I'm gonna keep using a sample, and they step up and they do the dishes because they were always capable.

你以前一直都是这么做的。

You just always did it.

或者，他们就是装作没看见。

Or they cannot pick it up.

这能让你看清你身边的人，以及他们对你的期待是什么。

And that can tell you about who you're with and what their expectations are.

不过，这可能需要一点时间。

Now it can take a beat.

我当初读到关于‘功能不足’和鲍恩家庭系统理论的时候，马上就觉得，这不可能只靠一次尝试就能见效。

And I when I was reading this about the underfunctioning and Bowen's family's systems work, I immediately thought it can't just be a one trial situation.

你不能只做一次测试，比如不洗碗，就指望对方自动去洗，因为他们可能需要一点时间才反应过来：咦，怎么没人洗碗了？

You can't only have this one test you run where you don't do the dishes and you expect them to pick it up because it might take them a beat to be like, oh, they're not doing them.

哦，我该去洗了。

Oh, I should do them.

不过也不该花太久时间。

Now it shouldn't take very long.

我觉得不该拖上几周，但你要明白，他们未必会自动察觉并行动。

I don't think it should take, like, weeks and weeks and weeks, but just know that they might not do it automatically.

可能就一两个小时吧。

It might take, an hour or two.

你得有点耐心，具体要看是什么事，有时候他们需要更久才能意识到。

You have to be a little bit patient about and depending on depending on what the thing is, it might take a little bit longer for them to realize.

比如洗衣这件事，衣服积起来需要更长时间。

Like, laundry takes longer to build up, for example.

所以他们可能根本没注意到你不再负责所有洗衣了。

So they might not realize that you're not doing all of the laundry.

这样说得通吧？

Does that make sense?

给他们一点时间，让他们主动承担起来。

Give them a chance to rise to the occasion.

别把这事搞得好像多大一回事似的。

Remember, you're not making a thing of it.

你不用特意提出来。

You're not announcing it.

你只是不做了，因为你以前也没老挂在嘴上。

You're just not doing it because you weren't announcing that you were doing it before either.

你以前就是默默做着而已。

You were just doing it.

现在我们就不做了，看看他们会不会主动补上。

So now we're gonna not, and we're just gonna see if they pick up the slack.

在我生活中，还有我接触的患者和社区成员里，大多数时候，对方都会主动接手，因为他们本来就有这个能力。

And most of the time in my life and with my patients and members of the community, the other person steps up because they were capable.

他们只是没做，因为你之前一直都在做。

They just weren't doing it because you were doing it first.

就好像你先做了，事情就自然解决了。

Almost like you got there first and it was done.

所以给他们一点机会吧。

So give them a chance.

明白吗？

Okay?

但如果他们还是不行动，那就说明我们这段关系的性质了。

But again, if they don't, that tells us who what type of relationship we're in.

我以前就因为不再主动关心朋友，结果友谊就结束了。

Like, I've had friendships end because I stopped being the one to check-in.

我的治疗师说，那你为什么不试着投入和他们一样的精力呢？

My therapist was like, well, what if you just put in the same amount of energy that they put in?

因为我发现这种关系真的让人很受伤。

Because I found those types of relationships really hurtful.

我就觉得，我一直在拼命迁就他们，做这些事。

And I'm like, I feel like I'm doing all this work to, like, go their way and do this thing.

她就说，那你不如稍微退一步，看看他们会怎么反应？

And she's well, like, what if you just pull back a little, we'll just see how they respond?

我猜他们可能会意识到，哦，我该主动一点，去找你，或者给你打个电话。

Thinking maybe that they'd pick it up, and they'd like, oh, I'll come your way or I'll call you.

我应该关心一下你。

I should check-in on you.

我大多数朋友都会这么做。

Most of my friendships did.

但有三个朋友没有。

However, there were three that did not.

这些年我这么做了之后，那些好的关系反而越来越好了，因为我感觉被理解、被重视。

And over the years, as I've practiced this, the good ones, the relationships improved, right, because I felt seen and heard.

我可以做自己，完全没问题。

I could take up space and it was okay.

这段关系能撑得住我。

The relationship could hold me.

但其他的，就撑不住。

And then the others, it couldn't.

说实话，早点明白这点总比一直往这种空荡荡的关系里倒东西强。

And it's honestly better that I know that rather than continuing to, like, dump into this empty well of a relationship.

你懂的。

You know?

明白了。

Okay.

所以，这是第二步。

So that was step two.

第三步，就是一个具体的请求。

Step three is a single specific ask.

如果你卡在‘不敢开口’这一步，那这条就特别适合你。

If you're stuck at the not asking rung, this is for you.

明白吗？

Okay?

如果你很难开口提出自己的需求，那就选这一周里你最需要的一件事。

If you have trouble asking for what you need, pick one specific thing that you need this week.

就一件。

Just one.

别说什么‘我需要更多支持’这种话。

Not I need more support.

太笼统了。

That's very general.

哦，这样啊。

That, oh, okay.

对吧？

Right?

别人没法替你做到这些。

They can't like do that for you.

我们得说得具体点。

We need to be specific.

你得说清楚，比如这周三你负责做晚饭，这样我就能去练瑜伽了。

We need to say like, can you handle, doing dinner on Wednesdays so that I can go to yoga?

你能不能负责买菜，让我有时间放松一下？

Can you handle getting the groceries so that I have time to unwind?

你能不能确保把车加满油，别让我早上还得去加油？

Can you make sure you fill up the car with gas so that I don't have to do it in the morning?

我不在乎具体是哪件事。

I don't care what this thing is.

我知道这些例子都挺偏向情侣之间的，但朋友之间也一样适用。

I know those are all, like, very specific to, like, romantic, but this could be friendship too.

下次我们一起去吃饭，你能不能顺路来接我？

Like, can you come my way next time we get dinner?

那样的话，我接孩子或者干别的事都会轻松很多。

That would be so much easier for me when I have to get the kids or whatever.

说得具体一点。

Make it very specific.

再提醒一次，别只说‘我需要更多支持’。

Again, remember not I need more support.

直接告诉我你具体需要什么。

Tell me exactly what you need.

你这周挑一件事，明确提出来。

And so I want you to pick one thing that you need this week and ask for it.

直接说出来。

Voice it directly.

明白吗？

Okay?

我们不拐弯抹角。

We're not hinting at it.

这不是在用问题的形式变相抱怨。

This isn't, like a question that we're posing to them that's like a complaint.

我们这里不是在玩什么间接攻击的把戏。

We're not being passive aggressive here.

我们是在明确提出一个请求。

We're putting this we're putting a request in.

我们会直接说出自己真正想要的东西。

We're gonna ask for it exactly what we want.

然后留意一下你身体的反应。

And then notice what happens in your body.

明白吗？

Right?

当你开口之前，可能已经有点紧张了，能感觉到那种情绪。

As you ask maybe before, maybe before you ask how do you maybe you're a little anxious, you feel it.

开口之后，也留意一下变化，保持好奇，别评判自己。

Then when you ask and then after, just notice, curious, not judgmental.

我们不会因为习惯而回避，我这里有个备注，根据希格森和弗里茨的研究，最难的部分其实是——你得学会和这种感觉待在一起。

We're not gonna change because what usually happens, and I have a little note here, that in the research done by Higelson and Fritz, they tell us that this is the part that's the hardest for you is that sitting with it.

不是那些话本身。

It's not the words.

也不是提出请求这个动作。

It's not actually putting in the request.

而是请求之后的反应。

It's the after effect.

关键在于，当我们把自尊完全寄托在别人身上时——就像我之前说的，我希望别人夸我‘你做得真棒’或者‘谢谢你’——这时候提出请求，好像就是在拿整个关系冒险。

It's the fact that when we rely on someone else so much so for our self esteem, like I was saying that I want people to be like, you did such a good job or thank you so much, that it can feel like I'm risking the whole relationship by putting in this request, by asking them for something.

我读到这儿的时候，心里一震，这简直太真实了。

And as I was reading this, I was like, it's like painfully true to me.

不知道你有没有同感。

I don't know if you feel the same.

我很想听听你的想法。

I'd love to know.

欢迎在评论里告诉我。

Let me know in the comments.

但事实是，我们并没有在威胁这段关系，也没有拿整段关系去冒险。

But the truth about this is that we're not threatening the whole relationship or risking the whole relationship.

我们只是在测试，这段关系是否能容纳真实的你。

We're just testing whether the relationship can actually hold a real version of you.

你也有需求，对吧？

Can you have needs too?

这段关系能不能承受你作为一个有需求的人，坦诚表达这些？

Can this relationship sustain you being a person sharing this also having those types of needs?

我们需要知道这些信息。

We need that information.

不然，我们根本无从判断是否真想要这段关系。

Otherwise, we don't know if we really want that relationship.

对吧？

Right?

就像我跟你说过的，我也有过一些友情最终结束了。

Like I told you, had friendships that ended.

这确实让人难过，我偶尔还是会为它们感到伤感，但很多时候我意识到，我其实是在为我期待中的关系哀悼，而不是为它真实的样子。

And while it's a bummer and I still grieve them sometimes, a lot of times I realize that it's like I I was grieving what I had hoped the relationship would be, not what it really was.

当你不能做自己，不能提出要求的时候，这段关系就谈不上是好的。

And it's there's never it's not a good relationship to be in when you can't really be yourself, when you can't ask for something.

对吧？

Right?

这点其实挺明显的。

That that's kind of obvious.

但不幸的是，对我们这些总是过度付出的人来说，我们总觉得不该有需求，也不配有需求。

But, unfortunately, for those of us who over function, we can feel like we don't have to have we can't have needs.

这种想法并不对。

That's not appropriate.

但你想想，如果我们朋友向我们提一个具体的要求，我们会觉得被冒犯吗？

But we you know, if we put if we flip it around where it's like, would we be offended if one of our friends asked us for something specific?

答案很明显：不会。

The answer is automatically like, no.

当然不会。

Of course not.

我的意思是，这没什么大不了的。

I mean, no big deal.

对吧？

Right?

那我们为什么就不能也这么做呢？

So why shouldn't we be able to do it too?

应该是相互的。

It should be reciprocal.

明白吗？

Okay?

所以，留意一下自己的感受。

So anyway, notice how you feel.

大胆提出来吧。

Put in that ask.

接下来我们进入最后一步，第四步。

Moving on to the final step, step number four.

我之前稍微提过，但还是要强调：不适感只是信息，不是危险。

I've kind of already mentioned this, but tolerate the discomfort because it's data, not danger.

很多时候，我们在做出改变时感到不舒服，就会以为自己做错了什么。

And what I mean by that is a lot of times when we feel uncomfortable when we're making change, we think that means we're doing something wrong.

我们总觉得，这种不适是在提醒我们该换种方式。

We think that the discomfort that we feel tells us we should do something else.

不对，不对，绝对不对。

No, no, no.

我请你停下来。

I want you to stop.

听我说完。

Hang with me.

不适感只是说明你在做一件新事，而不是在做错事。

Discomfort just tells us that we're doing something new, not that we're doing something wrong.

我们可别把这两件事搞混了。

We don't wanna get those two things confused.

不舒服并不等于有危险。

Discomfort doesn't have to mean threat.

我知道，我们小时候可能都听过这样的说法：嘿，

I know we probably have that story from childhood that like, hey.

当我感到不安、焦虑，或者身边的人不高兴时，就说明我有危险了。

When I'm uncomfortable, when I feel anxious, when other people in my life aren't pleased, that means I'm in danger.

我们现在早就不是那样了。

We're not in that place anymore.

你要提醒自己一下。

I want you to remind yourself.

提醒自己你现在在哪，多大年纪了。

Remind yourself of where you are, how old you are.

比如说，你现在是在自己家或公寓里，或者像我，我是凯蒂·莫顿。

Like, you're in your own home or apartment or you know, I am you know, I'm Kati Morton.

我今年四十二岁。

I'm 42.

我现在在家里面。

I'm in my own house.

我不再住在华盛顿州了。

I'm not in Washington state anymore.

如果你有那种童年留下的联想，记得提醒自己你现在身在何处。

You know, if you have that childhood tie, I want you to remind yourself of where you are.

不舒服并不等于出错了。

Discomfort doesn't mean wrong.

它只是意味着这是新的体验。

It just means new.

这跟以前不一样。

It's different.

我们必须学会和这种感觉共处。

And we have to be able to sit with that.

所以我想让你明白，这种不适感其实是个好现象。

And so I want you to know that, like, the discomfort's actually a good thing.

我知道你现在感觉不到，但它说明你正在改变，正在成长。

I know it won't feel like that, but it's a sign that you're you're doing you're changing.

你在做一件新的事，而这正是我们整个目标所在。

You're doing something new, which is what our whole goal is.

对吧？

Right?

我们就是要改变。

We want to change.

我们不想一直过度付出，然后心生怨气，最后爆发，再感到内疚。

We don't want to keep overgiving and be resentful and then blow up and then feel guilty about.

那种循环，那种模式，真的让人精疲力尽。

Like, that cycle or those rungs is exhausting.

所以要注意，别躲开这种不适感，别一觉得难受就想着退回去——研究发现，很多人到了这个阶段，一不舒服就回头了。

And so notice, sit with that discomfort, and instead of letting yourself say, oh, I should go back because this is what they found in the research is a lot of people in this stage when they get uncomfortable end up reverting back.