#273：我妈妈真的把我毁了 • 拜伦·凯蒂的《一念之转》

哦，亲爱的。

Oh, honey.

你知道那份工作，它是那么开放和脆弱，真是非凡。

You know that work, it was just so open and vulnerable, extraordinary.

这正是每个人都渴望的，如何清空。

And it's what everyone craves, how to empty.

所有这些，为自己的部分承担责任，为我的部分承担责任让我解脱，因为当他们为自己的部分承担责任时，并不会让我解脱。

All that take responsibility for our part, for my part frees me up because when they take responsibility for their part, doesn't free me up.

但做你所说的，正是我所说的。

But to do what you're talking about, that's what I'm talking about.

对。

Yeah.

没有他们的部分，因为正是

There is no their part because just what

我意识到了，还有你刚才说的。

I realized and what you just said.

我承担100%的责任。

I'm taking 100% responsibility.

当我这样做而不是只承担我那一部分时，事情就发生了。

And when I did that instead of just taking my part, that's when it happened.

那时，思维就打开了。

That's when the mind opens.

这让我们可以自由地对你做或说任何事，因为你可以为你自己的部分负责。

And that frees us up to say or do whatever we want in our relationship with you because you can take responsibility for your part.

我们在这里就是为了触动你的情绪，那些出现在你生活中的关系。

And we're just here to push your buttons, those relationships that show up in your life.

我们在这里支持你。

And we're here for you.

你已经走了这么远，继续为下一步祈祷吧。

You've come so far, just pray for the next.

如果你想交朋友，就和敌人待在一起。

If you all want a friend, hang out with the enemy.

而且你不需要跟他们待在一起，只要打开电视或者上网就行了。

And you don't have to hang out with them, just turn on your television or your internet.

对，然后去发现那些明显属于你的部分。

Yeah, And find those pieces of you that are so clearly you.

那些还在坚持的人，可能会说，约翰，你说的不公平。

And those of you that, you know, for all of us hanging in, it's like, but what you're saying is not fair, John.

不公平，因为他们做了那么多。

It's not fair because they did that much.

而他们只做了那么一点点小事。

And they only did that tiny, tiny little thing.

那我的痛苦是什么造成的？

Well, what was the cause of my suffering?

就是那一点点小事。

That tiny tiny little thing.

但那不公平。

But that's not fair.

对，这是公平的。

Yeah, it's fair.

照顾好你的痛苦。

Take care of your pain.

识别它。

Identify it.

承认它。

Own it.

纠正它。

Make it right.

但如果我们忙着评判别人，或者我们根本不知道，或者我们完全不知道如何摆脱这种痛苦，或者该怎么处理它，那我们怎么能做到呢？

But how can we do that if we're busy judging others or we don't even know or we we we have no clue about how to get rid of this pain or what to do with it?

自我探究是打开思维的关键。

Self inquiry is the key to an the key for an open mind.

但钥匙不合适。

But the key doesn't fit.

不管自我探究有多强大，它都不是那四个问题。

No matter how powerful self inquiry is, it doesn't the four questions.

那把钥匙打不开封闭的心门。

The key doesn't fit a closed mind.

但你找到了一把能打开你内心痛苦之门的钥匙。

But you found a key that fits that door of cause of suffering in you.

那把钥匙是合适的。

That key fits.

你正在发现一些美好的东西。

You're onto something beautiful.

约翰，谢谢你。

John, thank you.

天哪。

Oh my goodness.

米尔贾姆，亲爱的，你关于你妈妈的练习表。

Mirjam, honey, your worksheet on your mom.

是的，对。

Yes, yeah.

我回来后做了作业。

I came back and did the homework.

那么第一题，读一下你工作表上的第一题。

So number one, read number one on your worksheet.

我写了很多东西。

I wrote a lot of stuff.

我是该挑一句读，还是把整个第一题都读出来？

Should I pick out one sentence or should I read the whole number one?

把整个第一题都读出来。

Read the whole number one.

我需要我妈妈明白，她把我搞砸了，毁了我的童年和青春。

I need my mom to understand that she messed me up and that she ruined my childhood and my youth.

而且我需要她明白，如果在我谈论自己的时候，她跳进她自己的故事里，我们永远不会有正常的关系。

And I need her to understand that if she jumps into her own stories when I talk about myself, we'll never have a functional relationship.

我还希望她能明白，我从来没有感受到她的爱，也没有觉得和她在一起有安全感，而且按照临床心理学的标准，我的童年是相当创伤性的。

And I would also like her to understand that I never felt loved by her or safe with her, and that my childhood was pretty traumatic by clinical psychological standards.

我需要她认可我的情绪。

And I need her to validate my emotions.

我需要她做一个好的倾听者，做一个健康、关心我的妈妈。

I need her to be a good listener and a healthy caring mom.

好的，你需要你妈妈明白她把你搞砸了。

Okay, you need your mom to understand that she messed you up.

那么，你妈妈具体在哪些方面把你搞砸了？

Now what is the situation with your mom where she is messing you up?

可能有很多，但找出一个。

There could be thousands but identify one.

就一个。

Just one.

不一定要是最重要的那个，随便一个就行。

It doesn't have to be the one, just one.

你仔细想想，你需要她明白她把你搞砸了。

When you think through thought, you need her to understand that she messed you up.

具体是哪件事，我是说在你童年或者成年后，你想到的是什么？

What in particular, I mean in your childhood or adulthood comes to mind?

我是说，她不是一个快乐的人。

I mean, was not a happy person.

不用讨论了。

No discussion.

你想要一个具体的情况。

You want a specific situation.

好吧，我小时候，举个例子，她把她自己童年的创伤都告诉我了，那真的不适合那个年龄的孩子听。

Okay, when I was a kid, yes, so for example, she told me all of her own childhood trauma, which was really not age appropriate.

我当时不知道，但我觉得自己根本不是她的孩子，更像是她的朋友。

I mean, I didn't know at the time, but where I'm like in no way shape, it felt more like I'm her.

现在从成年人的角度看，我觉得我更像她的心理咨询师，而不是她的孩子，因为那真的不适合那个年龄的孩子听。

I mean, now as an adult perspective, I'm like, I was more of her therapist than a child because that was not age appropriate.

所以她就会跟我讲那些特别可怕的事情。

So she would tell me all these really terrible stories.

你妈妈把她的创伤跟你讲了。

Your mother shared her trauma with you.

你那时候多大？

How old were you?

你们在哪儿？

And where are you?

她跟你讲这些的时候，是在客厅还是厨房？

In the living room, in the kitchen when she was sharing her trauma with you?

对，客厅和厨房都有，但其实是每天都会讲。

I think, yeah, I mean living room and kitchen, but it was really every day.

她说的全是这些。

That's all she talked about.

讲一个她跟你分享创伤的具体场景吧。

One situation where she was sharing her trauma with you.

你们所有人，可能有上千次，也可能只有两次，但就选一次。

All of you, there could be thousands of times, there could be only two times, but just one.

自我不喜欢这样。

Ego doesn't like it.

它不会选那个，因为有这么多其他的事情。

It's like not that one because there's all of this stuff.

一次，剩下的时间用来处理其他情况。

One, the rest of your lives to working with the other situations.

选一个她向你倾诉创伤的场景。

One situation where she was sharing her trauma with you.

对，我觉得是在客厅。

Yeah, then I think it's in the living room.

基本上她在讲的是，因为我的家人来自东德，他们基本上在柏林墙建起来之前就飞过来了，但她是家里唯一一个没被告知的人。

And like, basically she was talking about because my family comes from the East Of Germany and they flew over the wall basically before the wall was built, but she was the only one in the family that wasn't told.

所以他们基本上说，好，我们要去拜访这个阿姨。

So basically they said, okay, we're gonna visit this aunt.

然后他们到了西边，就说，我们留在这儿了。

And then they arrived in the West and they were like, well, we're staying here.

那是个谎言。

That was a lie.

其实大家都知道，就是没告诉她，因为她最小，怕她说出去。

And kind of everybody knew and they didn't tell her because she was the youngest and they were afraid they would tell.

而且，从她以前跟我讲的那些故事来看，她在这个家庭里本来就不太被重视，也不太被接纳。

And I mean, from what stories she told me before, she also wasn't entirely wanted and included in that family system.

对，但那就是那个具体的情况。

Yeah, but that's the specific situation.

所以你需要让她明白，在那个情境里，你和你妈妈在厨房里。

So you need her to understand in that situation, you're in the kitchen with your mom.

不过那是在客厅，抱歉纠正一下。

That was in the living room though, sorry to correct.

你和你妈妈在客厅里。

You're in the living room with your mom.

然后

And

她在跟你说你刚才跟我们分享的那些事。

she is telling you what you just shared with us.

她把你搞得很糟。

She messed you up.

这是真的吗？

Is it true?

那其实只是

That was really just

不，这不是讨论。

No, that's not a discussion.

哦，不不。

Oh, no, no.

我要为在座的每个人，也为今天刚接触这个工作的你，强调一下：自我探究不是聊天。

And I'm gonna hold you for everyone here and for you that are new to the work today, self inquiry is not conversation.

好，那我就盯着你，让你学会骑这辆自行车。

Okay, so I'll hold you to it so that you can learn to ride this bicycle.

你说得对，谢谢。

You're right, thank you.

一开始会有点摇摇晃晃，因为自我总想接管你的探究。

A little wobbly at first because the ego wants to take your inquiry over.

但就算骑这辆自行车，也要坚持问问题，好吗？

But even though ride this bicycle, just stay with the questions, okay?

她把你搞得一团糟。

She messed messed you up.

她在跟你讲她家人没告诉她、没带她翻墙的故事，然后她把你搞得一团糟。

She's telling you the story of her family not telling her and carrying her over the wall and she messed you up.

这是真的吗？

Is it true?

不是。

No.

好，那就待在那里。

Okay, so just be there.

她正在跟你分享这一切。

She's sharing all that with you.

她把你搞乱了。

She messed you up.

仔细听她说话，看她的脸和身体。

And listen carefully to her words and see her face and body.

你们俩是坐着还是站着，还是怎么样？

Are the two of you sitting or standing or?

我想我们是坐着的，我是说，大概三十年前吧，但我觉得我们是坐着的。

I think we were sitting, I mean, it's thirty years ago about, but I think we were sitting down.

你们坐在一起，她在跟你讲那个故事。

These are sitting together and she's telling you that story.

她正在把你搞乱。

She's messing you up.

她把你搞乱了。

She messed you up.

对，我不知道那个“不”是从哪来的，但你要是那样说的话，我就会说“不”。

Yeah, I don't know where the no comes from, but if you say it like that, I'm like, no.

好，那就跟它待在一起。

Okay, so be with it.

我再问一遍，然后你感受一下。

I'll ask again and then take in that.

她把你搞乱了。

She messed you up.

这是真的吗？

Is it true?

刚接触这个练习的人，回答是或不是就行。

Those of you new to the work, it's yes or no.

这是一个静止的练习，是一个冥想的过程。

This is an exercise in stillness, it's a meditative process.

在那个时间、那个地点、那个情境下冥想，她把你搞砸了，这是真的吗？

Meditating in that time and place and situation, she messed you up, is it true?

不是。

No.

就待在那里。

Just be there.

我跟你分享点东西。

I'll share something with you.

这话一直在我脑子里转。

It's running through my head.

你是个很好的倾听者。

You're a very good listener.

谢谢。

Thank you.

你听到的是你妈妈的声音。

You're hearing your mother.

你在听。

You're listening.

对。

Yeah.

她把你搞砸了。

She messed you up.

那当你想到她把你搞砸了的时候，你是怎么对待你妈妈的？

Now how do you treat your mother when you think the thought she messed you up?

就像我过去两年都没怎么跟她说话。

Like I haven't really talked to her for the last two years.

对。

Yeah.

而且，我给她写了一封长信，基本上说了所有我觉得她把我搞砸了的事情，还说那是个相当糟糕的童年。

And I mean, I wrote her a long letter basically saying everything where I think that she messed me up and saying like that that was quite a terrible childhood.

所以，我有点，然后我就想，好吧，我现在不想跟你说话。

So, I kind of, and then I was like, okay, I don't wanna talk to you right now.

等我差不多恢复好了，我再联系你。

And I'll get back to you when I've kind of healed enough.

对，所以我现在不跟她说话。

Yeah, so I don't talk to her.

我听到你在努力照顾自己。

I'm hearing you're trying to take care of yourself.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Yeah.

所以你能理解，你确实在努力照顾自己，因为你认为她是你被搞砸的原因。

And so you can understand, you're really trying to take care of yourself because you see her as the problem of you being messed up.

她把你搞砸了。

She messed you up.

在这种情况下，如果你和你妈妈坐在一起，听她讲他们是如何从那种处境走到他们认为更好的生活的，你会是什么样子？

Who would you be in that situation sitting together with your mother listening to the story of how they came from that situation into what they saw as a better life?

那得需要多大的勇气啊？

What kind of courage that must have taken?

听听你妈妈怎么说。

Listen to your mother.

是的，我觉得如果没有那个想法，因为你知道，我一直是个好的倾听者，就是，有点

Yeah, I think without that thought, because I mean, I've always been a good listener, it's like, it's kind of

没有那个想法，再听听你坐在沙发上的那个锚点，和你妈妈在一起，做个好的倾听者。

Without the thought, listen again to your anchor there on the couch with your mother, be a good listener.

没有“她把我搞乱了”这个想法，你是谁？

Who are you without the thought she's messing me up?

没有那个想法，我觉得我会很同情她，因为她当时很痛苦，是的。

Without that thought, I think I would be compassionate because she was in a lot of pain and yeah.

所以你很同情她。

So compassionate.

是的，因为我觉得，她那时候很痛苦，而且三十年来她一直为很多事情痛苦。

Yeah, because I'm like, she was in a lot of pain back then and she's been in a lot of pain for thirty years over like a lot of things.

但我是说，那是她的故事。

But I mean, that's her story.

所以我不会讲细节，但我觉得她

So I'm not gonna tell the details, but I'm like, she's

不，就

No, just

待在沙发上。

stay couch.

好的，

Okay,

在

on

对，我离开沙发，抱歉。

yeah, I'm leaving the couch, sorry.

是的，我想我会感到非常，我会为她感到难过，因为那听起来像你

Yeah, I think I would feel very, I would feel sad for her because that sounds like You

现在别待在那儿了。

don't feel be there now.

那我真的为她感到难过，因为听起来，当我坐在那张沙发上时，她似乎对整个家庭系统失去了信任。

Then I'm really sad for her because it sounded like when I'm sitting on that couch, that she kind of lost the whole trust in her whole family system.

我是说，可能在那之前很久就失去了，但感觉就像你真的……

I mean, probably way before that, but it feels like that You're really

一方面在听，但另一方面又在想别的事情。

listening on one hand, but you're going into something else.

你现在的感受是合理的。

It's valid where you are.

我想在这种情况下支持你。

I want to hold you in that situation.

如果没有“她毁了我”这个念头，你会是谁？

Who would you be without the thought she messed me up?

现在，待在那里，听你母亲说话，保持安静。

Now be there now and listen to your mother and be still.

好的，我明白了。

Okay, I get it.

现在你提到的那种同情心，感受到它是可以的。

Now that compassion you pointed to, it's okay to feel it.

现在就和你妈妈在一起。

Be there now with your mom.

建立连接。

Get connected.

听着，这需要很大的勇气。

Listen, takes a lot of courage.

是的，我以前更多时间是生气，所以这很难。

Yeah, I spent more time being angry so this is hard.

对。

Yeah.

你正在体验另一种感受，这是你一生都相信她毁了你之后的新体验。

You're experiencing another side of a lifetime of believing that she messed you up.

如果没有“她毁了我”这个想法，你是谁？

Who are you without the thought she messed me up?

那我真的为我妈妈经历的那些感到难过，因为那对她来说听起来太痛苦了，她一直在说那件事，是的。

Then I'm really sad that my mom experienced that because that sounded so painful to her that she'd been talking about that for yeah.

所以，如果你要给它起个名字，或者如果我来起个名字，

So what I'm if you were to name it or if I were to name

同情，

compassionate,

如果没有“她毁了我”这个想法，你会是谁？

who would you be without the thought she messed me up?

我从你那里听到的，我不是猜的，我从你那里听到了同情。

I heard from you, I'm not guessing, I heard from you compassion.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，坐在沙发上，和你妈妈在一起，听她说。

So be there on the couch with your mom and listen.

别打断她，就鼓起勇气去感受她的痛苦，她的经历，去感受，这不是关于你，而是关于她。

Don't interrupt her, just have the courage to sit in her pain, her experience, sit in, this is not about you, this is about her.

陪着她，带着同情心去倾听。

Sit with her and listen compassionately.

是的，我在听。

Yeah, I'm listening.

这很沉重。

It's a lot.

这真的很沉重。

That's a lot.

这真的很沉重。

That's a lot.

我以前觉得，当我在你身上看到那种经历时，去感受它，就像经历一次死亡。

I used to think sitting in an experience that I'm witnessing in you, my experience of being in your place felt like a death.

她毁了我，反过来想想，试试看。

She messed me up, turn it around, try it on.

我自己把自己搞乱了。

I messed me up.

那就试试看吧。

So try that on.

对。

Yeah.

听起来差不多是这样。

That sounds about right.

抱歉。

Sorry.

但是，是的，我很想反驳，但我觉得，对，我反驳不了。

But, yeah, I would love to argue with it, but I'm like, yeah, I can't.

就像，我自己把自己搞乱了。

It's like, I messed me up.

这种情况下没有什么好内疚的，但一个小女孩听到那些可怕的故事，当那是你妈妈经历过的，她怎么能承受得住呢？

There's no guilt to be had in this situation, but how does a little girl listening to those horrific stories take them in when that's your mother that went through that?

你怎么处理这件事？

How do you deal with that?

我觉得你处理得很好，是时候从那个学校毕业了。

I'd say you dealt with it really well and that it's time to maybe graduate from that school.

你的同情心会带你去任何你有勇气去的地方。

Your compassion will take you anywhere you have the courage to go.

她把我搞乱了，我也把自己搞乱了。

She messed me up, I messed me up.

现在你和你妈妈坐在沙发上，她在给你讲那个故事。

Now be on the couch with your mother, she's telling you the story.

现在看看她分享的那些画面在你脑海里的样子。

Now look at the images in your head that she was sharing.

对，我正在这么做。

Yeah, I'm doing that.

听到关于德国的故事，他们当时有多艰难，以及他们一家人一起迈出那一步需要多大的勇气，还有她带你过来。

Hearing about Germany and how hard it was for them and how, what it must have taken to take that leap of faith for that family together and her to bring you.

这，我真的不知道该怎么说，因为任何语言都显得苍白。

Like, that's, I don't have words for that because they would fall short.

对，我觉得她当时没这么想，但你说得对。

Yeah, I don't think she saw it like that, but you're right.

那确实需要很大的勇气。

Like that was a lot of courage.

嗯，她用自己的经历救了你。

Well, saved your life to her experience.

救了你。

Saved you.

是的。

Yeah.

让她没有经历过的那些痛苦，她不想让你经历，也不想让自己经历。

From what she lived through that she didn't want for you and didn't want any for herself.

对。

Yeah.

你知道吗，我在想，我妈妈肯定也编了很多关于这件事的故事。

You know what I'm thinking that my mom must have made a lot of stories about it as well.

当然，那也不是我该管的事。

I mean, that's of course not my business.

不过我只是在想，因为他们真的去了，却没告诉她。

Though I'm just thinking, because I'm like actually them going and not telling her.

我现在回想起来，觉得那听起来有点像是一种爱的表现。

I'm like, that sounds a bit in hindsight to me now, like an act of love.

因为我觉得，他们不告诉她，所以她没法说出去，这样他们才能安全。

Because I'm like, they didn't tell her so she couldn't tell, so they would be safe.

但从她的角度看，她总觉得，他们没告诉我，好像没人信任我。

But from her perspective, it was always, they didn't tell me and kind of, no one trusted me.

我就想，我不知道这是不是真的。

I'm like, I don't know if that's true.

所以那就是她的故事。

So that's her story.

这就是你听到的内容。

That's what you were listening to.

然后她把你搞乱了，转身走了。

And she messed you up, turned around.

是我把她搞乱了。

I messed her

是我把自己搞乱了，记住这一点。

I messed me up, stay with that.

哦，好的。

Oh, okay.

对，对，对。

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

因为我信了那个故事，我就想，那是她的故事，但那是她的故事。

Because I believe that story and I'm like, that was her story, but that's her story.

所以你对她的想法和看法就是这样。

So what you were thinking and believing about her.

有时候我们给孩子的负担远超他们能承受的，而我们自己却没意识到。

Sometimes we give children a lot more than they can handle and we're unaware of it.

对，我觉得她当时没意识到。

Yeah, don't think she was aware of it.

我觉得她完全没意识到。

I don't think she was aware of it at all.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道吗，听起来好像她心里觉得，你身上有某种东西，让她觉得可以对你说这些。

You know, and it also sounds, it's like she's, there's something in you that she thinks she can say these things to.

而你的强项似乎是富有同情心？

And compassion seems to be your strong suit?

对，是的。

Yes, yeah.

这对一个小女孩来说，负担太重了。

And that's a lot for a little girl.

对。

Yeah.

她把我搞乱了。

She messed me up.

所以，静下心来，好好感受一下。

So just get really still and just experience this.

我把她搞乱了。

I messed her up.

在沙发上，我把她搞乱了。

On the couch, I messed her up.

所以，去感受一下。

So get in touch.

这对一个小女孩来说，要听进去并消化，负担太重了。

That's a lot for a little girl to listen to and take in.

我把她搞乱了。

I messed her up.

小女孩会承担责任，因为那个小女孩就活在你心里。

Little girls can take responsibility because that little girl is living in you.

对。

Yeah.

我是说

I mean

不，是我把她搞砸了。

No, I messed her up.

给我举个例子。

Give me an example.

在那个情况下是我把她搞砸了，因为你说的或做的都不是故意的。

I messed her up in that situation because there's nothing you said or did that was intentional.

我是说，我能想到好几件事。

I mean, I can think of several things.

那我们先从一件开始，总是从一件开始，因为你的脑子不会——太多了，太多了。

So let's start with one, always start with one because your mind doesn't, there's so much, there's so much.

我觉得其中一个原因是，我从来没跟我妈说过，妈，我不喜欢听那个故事，那些故事，你知道吗？

Just I think think one is because I never said, mom, I don't like listening to that story, these stories, you know?

然后我就想，那时候要是能健康地跟她说，别告诉我，我不想听，就好了。

And I'm like, that would have been a healthy thing to be like, don't tell me, like, don't wanna know.

好，那回到那个时候。

Okay, so go back there.

对。

Yeah.

你没有说，妈，这对我来说太多了。

You didn't say, Long, this is too much for me.

没有，没有，没有。

No, no, no.

我是说，我从来没告诉过她我的感受。

I mean, I never told her what I felt like.

对，我没那么做，因为我觉得，那个故事本来应该讲给创伤心理医生听，而不是讲给一个孩子听。

Yeah, no, I didn't do that because I'm like, that's a story that would have belonged really with a trauma psychologist, not with a child.

对。

Yeah.

有些小男孩小女孩，我们不会那样跟父母说话。

Little girls and boys, we don't talk to our parents that way, some of us.

我们甚至不知道怎么开口。

We don't even know how.

我是说，那时候你还没有那些词汇，但你只知道你没有说出来，比如“我受不了这个，这对我来说太多了”。

I mean, you don't have the words then but you and just know you didn't speak up like I'm unable to hear that, it's too much for me.

但你现在长大了，当她在电话里说那些事的时候，你可以说出来，而且这对你来说是真实的。

But you're grown now and you can say that when she's on the phone and it's true for you.

“这对我来说太多了，给我一点时间。”

It's too much for me, give me a little time.

我想慢慢消化，我不想——

I want to sit with it I don't

——不想伤害你。

want to hurt your

我理解你的感受，但这对我来说太多了，我听不下去。

feelings but this is too much for me, I can't hear it.

那我们换个话题，你今天过得怎么样？

And let's switch over to how was your day?

你知道吗，我真的很想知道。

You know, I'm really interested in that.

是的，我还是做不到那样。

Yeah, I still don't do that.

就是，嗯，不，不是那样。

Like, yeah, no.

好吧，不是。

Well, no.

那个小女孩还活在你心里，她会把那些你以前不想听、现在也不想听的故事说出来。

That little girl is living in you and she's gonna come off with those stories you didn't wanna hear then and you don't wanna hear now.

对，我是说，这种事难免。

Yeah, I mean, happens.

其实那是我跟她断绝联系的一个重要原因，因为我觉得，每次我想聊自己的事，她就会讲她过去的故事，我根本受不了，但我从来没想过直接跟她说，妈，聊聊我的事挺好的。

That was actually a big part of why I broke off the contact because I'm like, I can't, every time I try to talk about myself, I can't handle her putting on one of her past stories, but never got the idea to just be like, Hey mom, it would be nice to talk about me.

你的故事能不能晚点再说？

Can we talk about your story later?

现在我有这个话题要聊。

Right now I have this topic.

对。

Yeah.

然后你说，妈，我听到你说的话了，但对我来说，你听我说也很重要，或者我昨天遇到了个问题，随便什么。

And you say, mom, I hear what you're saying and it's important to me that you listen to me or I had a problem yesterday, whatever it is.

她把我搞乱了，我也把她搞乱了。

She messed me up, I messed her up.

看看你是怎么躲着她的。

Look how you've avoided her.

我已经躲了她二十年了。

I've been avoiding her for twenty years.

就是说，我17岁就搬出去了，基本上是离家出走，而且我拒绝回家。

Like, I mean, I moved out when I was 17, I basically ran away and I refused coming home.

所以我觉得，这是一个非常长期存在的模式。

So I'm like, this is a very long standing pattern.

我在这方面有很多经验。

I have a lot of practice in that.

因为你没有勇气听她说话，但是亲爱的，你现在有勇气听她说话吗？

Because you didn't have the courage to listen to her, but oh honey, do you have the courage to listen to her?

我们都亲眼看到了。

We all just witnessed it.

你坐在沙发上，你听了。

You sat on that couch, you listened.

哦，这倒是真的。

Oh, that's true.

我确实听她说话。

I do listen to her.

对，好吧。

Yeah, okay.

我只是需要在她面前说出来，什么时候我不能再听下去了。

I just need to tell her when I can't do that anymore.

就像，我确实会听她说话。

Like I do listen to her.

其实说我一直在逃避、不听她说话，这并不完全属实，但我觉得我需要控制自己能听多少。

That's actually not true that I've been running away and not listening to her, but I'm like, I need to regulate how much I can listen.

因为以前我没有界限的时候，人们真的会一直唠叨个不停，我变得非常绝望。

Because like people, like when I didn't have boundaries, people used to really chew my ear off and I got so desperate.

但现在这些天，我练习了直接说，嘿，我刚注意到我现在得走了，或者我不能再继续谈这个了。

But now these days I've practiced just being like, hey, I'm just noticing I need to go now, or I can't further talk about this.

然后人们就会说，哦，抱歉。

And then people go like, oh, sorry.

然后对话就结束了。

And then the conversation's over.

好，我们来看第二点。

Okay, let's look at two.

好的。

Okay.

等等，让我打开那个。顺便说一句，非常感谢你。

Wait, let me open the Thank you so much by the way.

亲爱的，就听你妈妈的话吧。

Honey, just listen to your mom.

这不是你的痛苦，而是……她仍然信任你，所以你有某种特质。

It's not your pain, it's And she continues to trust you so there is something in you.

我觉得正是那种同情心让她真正理解你。

I think it's that compassion that she really gets about you.

第二点，当你在沙发上和你妈妈面对那种情况时，对你来说太过沉重了。

Number two, when that situation on the couch with your mother, it's just way too much for you.

你希望她怎么想、怎么说、怎么感受，或者怎么做？

What do you want her to think, say, feel or do?

第二条你写了什么？

What did you write for number two?

在那个沙发上的情境里，如果我想着那个沙发上的情境，我只是希望她能听我说，因为她一直不停地在说话。

In that situation of the couch, if I'm thinking about the situation of the couch, I just wanted her to listen to me, because she kept all the time like talking.

因为，那不是自我探究。

Because, that's not self inquiry.

对，就是希望她能听我说。

Yeah, just want her to listen to me.

对，所以就在沙发上待着。

Yeah, so just be there on the couch.

你只是希望她能听你说。

You just wanted her to listen to you.

现在注意你们俩有什么共同点。

Now notice what you both have in common.

你们俩都希望被倾听。

You both want to be heard.

对，我觉得这是人类很基本的需求。

Yeah, I mean, that's a very human need.

我也不能真的怪她。

I can't really blame her for that.

不要讨论，就陪着它。

No discussion, just be with it.

对。

Yeah.

她想被听见，你也想被听见。

She wants to be heard and you wanna be heard.

但我能问你一个问题吗？

But can I just ask you one question?

因为我在想，她是我妈妈，我是孩子。

Because I'm like, but she's my mom and I'm the kid.

所以我觉得，孩子不应该和父母有同样的角色。

So I'm like, kids shouldn't have the same role as the parent.

这就像是父母化。

Like that's parentification.

嗯，我们生活中都有创伤，像你这样回去重新面对它们，会给我们带来一个全新的生活，一个我们无法想象的全新生活。

Well, we have traumas in our life and to go back and open those up the way you're doing, it gives us a whole other life, a whole other life that we can't even imagine.

对。

Yeah.

而且不要期待它们，但事实就是这样。

And don't expect them, but that's just how it is.

事情就是这样运作的。

It's just how it works.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

所以放下那个想法，对，好的。

So let go of that thought that, yeah, okay.

你要知道，她其实很想听你说话，任何时候你想被倾听，而你妈妈在说话的时候。

Just know that she wants to, anytime you wanna be heard and your mother's talking.

她希望被倾听。

She wants to be heard.

所以如果她不能给你想要的，那还有谁能给你想要的，去给她你想要的。

So if she cannot give you what you want, who's left to give what you want, to give what you want to her.

如果她不能给你，那就给她。

If she can't give it to you, give it to her.

我可以做到。

I can do that.

我可以做到。

I can do that.

要知道，给予是一件很棒的礼物，这正是你想要的。

Notice it's a great gift to give, it's the one you want.

如果我想要什么，我就会给予。

And if I want something, I give it.

哦，我同意这一点。

Oh, agree with that.

你付出你所得到的。

You give what you

我付出我想得到的。

I give what I want to get.

是的，我得到我所付出的，没错。

Yeah, I receive what I give, yes.

这就是我付出的礼物，而我也因此得到了礼物。

And that is the gift I give and I'm gifted.

是的，我同意这一点。

Yeah, agree with that.

我完全同意这一点。

I totally agree with that.

所以，当你准备好了，你可以打电话给你妈妈，给她一份好好倾听的礼物。

So you can call your mother when you're ready and give her the gift of being a good listener.

不是假装在听，而是有勇气真正去倾听。

Not pretending to listen but to have the courage to really listen.

而且不要指望一定会被听到。

And don't expect ever to be heard.

你们太像了，所以你能理解她。

You're so much alike you can understand it.

你

You

可以给她你希望从她那里得到的东西。

can give her what you want to get from her.

我们来看看在那情况下，要得到你想要的，有三点。

Let's look at three in that situation to get what you want.

第一，在那个沙发上，你会给你妈妈什么建议？

And number one, what advice would you give your mother in that situation on the couch?

第三，她应该，她不应该。

Number three, she should, she shouldn't.

对，她应该听我的。

Yeah, well, she should listen to me.

所以放慢节奏。

So slow it down.

你坐在沙发上。

You're on the couch.

她在跟你讲她的故事，那个可怕的故事。

She's telling you her story, that horrendous story.

她应该听你的。

She should listen to you.

这是真的吗？

Is it true?

刚接触这个工作的人，答案是“是”或“不是”。

Those of you new to the work, it's a yes or no.

这是一个关于静默的练习。

This is an exercise in stillness.

你们中那些冥想的人，这就是你们想努力放下的东西，但直面它本身就是冥想。

Those of you that are meditators, this is the stuff you're trying to like move aside, but to face it head on is meditation itself.

如果你有自我探究的精神，这需要很大的勇气，因为那是你的世界。

It takes a lot of courage if you have self inquiry in you because that's your world.

你的世界。

Your world.

当所有这些乱七八糟的东西被清除后，冥想可以深入得不得了。

Meditation can run so deeply when all this crap is cleared away.

它可以深入得让你震惊，这正是我希望你们所有人都能体验到的。

It can run so deeply it'll blow your it's just what I want for all of you.

这就像希望你们拥有你们已经拥有的东西。

And it's like to want for all of you what you already have.

但我们要清除掉自我提供的一切，那些会阻碍这种深度的东西。

But we're getting rid of everything the ego would offer up, that would get in the way of that kind of depth.

那种觉悟，那种深度，那种自由。

That enlightenment, that depth, that freedom.

她应该听你的。在那样的情境下，把它转过来，然后放慢节奏，我的心，放慢节奏。

She should listen to you Turn it around in that situation and slow it down my heart, slow it down.

我应该听她的。

I should Listen to her.

好，那现在就这么做吧。

Okay, so do that now.

坐在沙发上，听她说。

Be on the couch and listen.

对。

Yeah.

就听着。

Just listen.

就听着。

Just listen.

看看她的脸，看看她的眼睛，看看她的肢体语言，就听着。

Look at her face, look at her eyes, look at her body language, just listen.

我可能会说，她真的很伤心。

I would probably say that she's really sad.

对。

Yeah.

她应该听我的。

She should listen to me.

我应该听自己的。

I should listen to me.

看看这一切，我受不了了。

Look at all the I can't stand it.

我应付不来。

I can't handle it.

她在伤害我。

She's hurting me.

我不想听她说话。

I don't want to hear her.

当你想到“她应该听我的”但她没有听的时候，你脑子里在想什么？

What was going on in your head when you think the thought, she should listen to me and she's not.

是的，我觉得如果我在沙发上听自己说话，我会说，嘿，妈妈，我知道你很难过，但我听不了这个。

Yeah, I think if I'm listening to myself on the couch, I would just be like, Hey mom, I get you're really sad and I can't listen to that.

那不像

That's not like

对，然后说，我现在听不了这个。

Yeah, and say, I can't listen to that right now.

是的，我现在听不了这个。

Yeah, I can't listen to that right now.

好吧，我听不了这个。

Well, I can't listen to that.

就像永远永远

It's like forever and ever

然后，是的，但要说，我现在听不了这个。

and Yeah, but to be like, I can't listen to that right now.

因为那更真实。

Because that's truer.

那也可以，是的。

That could be okay, yeah.

好，我们来看第四点。

Okay, let's look at four.

在那种情况下，要让自己开心，你需要你妈妈怎么想、怎么说、怎么感觉或怎么做？

In that situation, to be happy in that situation, what do you need your mother to think, say, feel or do?

我需要我妈妈开心，和我好好相处，因为她以前没有。

I need my mom just to be happy and to have a good time with me because she didn't.

哦不，因为，对不起。

Oh no, because this I'm sorry.

每次你听到“因为”这个词，注意你说“对不起”的时候，你其实并不抱歉。

Anytime you hear the word because, notice when you say sorry, you're not sorry.

对，我不是。

No, I'm not.

而且你说的时候，如果你听回放，就能看到你说得有多频繁，而且没有一次是真心实意的。

And you say it on, if you hear the replay, can see how often you say it and not once have you meant it.

这就像自我，它像硬盘一样控制着我们。

It's like where the ego, it runs us like almost like a hard drive.

好的。

Okay.

是的，我需要我妈妈开心，我需要她和我一起去做有趣的事情。

Yes, I would need my mom to be happy and I would need her to go do fun things with me.

我需要她听我说话。

I would need her to listen to me.

你需要她听你说话。

You would need her to listen to you.

那会让你开心吗？

Would that make you happy?

不，我需要听我自己说话。

No, I need to listen to me.

真正听你说你对母亲的看法，因为这些看法很陈旧，而且正是它们让你痛苦。

Really listen to you around your judgments of your mother because they're old and they're the cause of your suffering.

然后在这里设定一个目标，你知道，就是让自己快乐。

And into a goal line here, you know, to be happy.

我需要她听我说，我才能快乐。

I need her to listen to me to be happy.

对，还要和我一起去做有趣的事情。

Yeah, and to go do fun things with me.

就像我需要和自己一起去做有趣的事情。

Like I need to go do fun things with myself.

对，是的，亲爱的。

Yeah, yes honey.

而且为了快乐，我需要听她说。

And to be happy I need me to listen to her.

并且真正地听。

And really listen.

注意一下你在听你妈妈说话时，脑子里那些自我玩的花招，因为你会发现它们和沙发上那个小女孩是一样的。

And notice your head, the ego's head games that are played when you're listening to your mother, because you'll find that they're the same as that little girl on the couch.

对。

Yeah.

那我们来看看那个情况下的第五点。

So let's look at five in that situation.

我妈妈，在那个沙发上的情况里，我妈妈是……

My mother is, that situation on the couch, my mother is.

哦，那些评判。

Oh, the judgments.

对，她是个糟糕的家长。

Yeah, she's a bad parent.

她不负责任。

She's irresponsible.

她基本上把我当成支持她的心理治疗师了。

She's she's basically treating me like support therapist.

你说这些的时候，有没有听到这些反转？

Are you hearing these turnarounds as you're saying it?

在那个情境里，我是个坏父母。

In that situation, I am bad parent.

在那个情境里，我是个坏父母。

In that situation, I'm a bad parent.

就好像你在试图当她的父母，而你自己只是个小女孩。

It's like you're trying to parent her and you're just this little girl.

对，我试过很多次。

Oh yeah, I tried that a lot.

所以，在那个情境里，我

So, and in that situation, I

是

am

不负责任的。

irresponsible.

在沙发上，你是在哪里表现得不负责任的？

On the couch, where is it that you were irresponsible?

对，再说一次，我并不是在评判自己，但我觉得最健康的做法应该是说，妈，这太过分了。

Yeah, again, and I was not saying that to judge myself, but I'm like the healthiest thing would have been to be like, mom, this is way too much.

请你去告诉别人。

Please go tell somebody else.

我应付不了这个。

I can't handle this.

我还是个孩子。

Like I'm a kid.

闭上眼睛。

Close your eyes.

你的眼睛。

Your eyes.

想象一下你和妈妈在沙发上，然后默默对自己说，这太多了，我只是个小孩。

Imagine yourself with your mom on the couch and say that to yourself in silence, It's too much, I'm just a little kid.

现在感受一下，听你母亲说，这并不算太多。

Now feel that, listen to your mother, it's not too much.

即使我只是个小孩子，现在你作为小女孩也有能力在那里，真正听你母亲说话。

Even though I'm just a little kid, you have the ability to be there now little girl and really listen to your mother.

你听到了她的话。

You heard her.

而且这真是，你用过“创伤”这个词，这真是你在这段关系中重新经历的创伤。

And it was such a, you've used the word trauma, it's such a trauma that you've relived it in that relationship.

就像太多、太多、太多，我受不了，我受不了。

Like too much, too much, too much, I can't, I can't.

所以突破。

So breaking through.

承担责任。

Being responsible.

对。

Yeah.

她把我当成心理治疗师。

She treats me like a therapist.

反过来，我也要这样对她。

Turned around, I'll treat her.

就像我是心理治疗师？

Like I'm a therapist?

对，我基本上大半辈子都在试图拯救她和我家里其他很多人，直到我说，好了，我受够了。

Yeah, I've been trying to rescue her and a lot of other people in my family basically for almost all my life until I said, okay, I'm done.

对。

Yeah.

这样你就不用听他们倾诉他们的痛苦了。

That way you don't have to hear them and their pain.

你真有勇气，孩子，能超越一个受过那么多创伤、经历那么多的家庭。

You've got a lot of courage, boy, to override a family that had been so traumatized, been through so much.

然后成为倾听者，成为倾听者，你们所有人，都成为倾听者。

And to become the listener, to become the listener, all of you, to become the listener.

啊！

Ah!

你想想看，你宁愿这样吗？你知道吗，我们说的很多话都是，我想让你听听我的感受，我的状态，我怎样怎样怎样，这本身没有错，只是我把家人当成了我的病人。

Just think, would you rather be, know, so much of what we say is, I want you to hear how I feel, how I am, how I da da da da and that's not wrong, it's just I treat my family like I'm a therapist.

这是有原因的。

And there's a reason for that.

你不需要去听他们的痛苦。

You don't have to hear their pain.

你不需要去听他们倾诉。

You don't have to listen to them.

你不需要去听，你知道，他们的创伤不是你的创伤。

You don't have to hear how you know, their trauma is not your trauma.

他们的创伤不是你的。

Their trauma is not yours.

你并没有经历那些，你不是那个熬过来的人。

You didn't go, you weren't the one surviving all of that.

你才是那个要承受你母亲的人。

You're the one surviving your mother.

告诉我，你打算怎么看待他们。

And tell me what you're thinking of believing about them.

亲爱的，我们来看看第六点。

Honey, let's look at six.

沙发上和我母亲的那种情况，我永远都不想再发生。

That situation on the couch with my mother, I don't ever want.

我永远都不想。

I don't ever want to.

我永远都不想让她再提起那些可怕的事情。

I don't ever want her to speak of those terrible things again.

对，我也这么觉得。

Yeah, I think that.

而且我永远都不想让她忽视我的感受。

And I don't ever want her to ignore how I'm feeling.