56. 问答：ETF策略、躺平退休、股息vs.增长型及现金ETF

我注意到很多人往往会想得太多。

I've noticed a lot of people tend to overthink it a lot.

比如，我应该在这上面配置10%还是20%？

Like, should I have 10% in this one or 20% in this one?

这个市场表现这样，但另一个市场却表现得不一样。

And and this market's performing this way, but this other market's performing this way.

也许我应该调整一下我的配置。

Maybe I should change my allocation.

他们心里总是不停地重新评估，怀疑自己的策略是否应该继续下去。

And there's this constant, like, recalibration in their mind over whether their strategy is the right one to continue with.

所以我发现很多人对这类事情过度纠结。

So I find a lot of people kind of over agonizing about this sort of thing.

因此，一站式基金之所以好，是因为它消除了那种反复怀疑自己、不断调整、试图找到一个能超越所有其他投资组合的完美最优配置的冲动。

And so the all in one funds are beautiful for the reason that it takes away that urge to kind of second guess yourself and to tinker with things to try and find some sort of a perfect optimal portfolio that's gonna outperform all the others.

《澳洲火人》播客是Strong Money Australia与Perla的合作项目，Perla是澳大利亚最受欢迎的沉稳长期投资平台。

The Aussie Fire podcast is a collaboration between Strong Money Australia and Perla, Australia's favorite boring long term investing platform.

欢迎收听我们的主持人，来自Strong Money Australia的Dave和来自Perla的Hayden，他们将探讨所有关于财务自由的话题。

Join our hosts, Dave from Strong Money Australia and Hayden from Perla as they discuss all things financial independence.

在Aussie Fire，我们非常推崇分享经验并谈论金钱。

At Aussie Fire, we're big fans of sharing experiences and talking about money.

然而，请注意，任何建议均为一般性意见，并未考虑您的财务状况、需求或目标。

However, please note that any advice is general and does not consider your financial situation, needs, or objectives.

请自行判断这些建议是否适合您，如有疑问，请咨询持牌财务顾问。

Consider whether it's appropriate for you, and if in doubt, speak to a licensed financial adviser.

嘿，大家好。

Hey, guys.

欢迎回到Aussie Fire播客。

Welcome back to the Aussie Fire podcast.

在今天的节目中，我们准备了一系列听众提问，内容主要围绕投资策略、财务自由的不同形式以及投资组合设计。

So in today's episode, we've got a bunch of listener questions lined up, and they're gonna be around the topics of investing strategy and different variations of fire and also portfolio design as well.

具体来说，我们今天将重点讨论‘躺平式财务自由’。

So specifically, we're going to actually talk about coast FIRE.

我相信你们很多人对这个都很熟悉，也了解各种半退休状态，以及我们是否会在自己的生活中采用其中一种策略，因为我们之前还没怎么讨论过这个话题。

I'm sure many of you are very familiar with that and different types of semi retirement and whether we would actually follow one of those strategies in our own lives because we haven't really talked about that.

我们将讨论将资金分散投资于不同ETF是否会影响你的进展或复利效果。

We're going to be talking about whether splitting your money across different ETFs actually slows down your progress or your compounding in any way.

我们会深入分析这个问题。

We'll unpack that one.

我们还会探讨在接近退休时，从增长型投资组合转向股息型投资组合的想法。

And we're gonna talk about the idea of moving towards a dividend focused portfolio from a growth portfolio when you are towards retirement.

然后我们还会快速了解一下现金ETF，这是我过去六个月左右才开始了解的东西，是我的一位朋友向我提起来的。

And then we're gonna also have a quick look at cash ETFs, which is something that I've only become familiar about in the last six months or so, I would say, after a friend of mine pointed them out.

所以我们会讨论它们是什么，以及是否值得持有。

So we're gonna discuss what they are and whether they might be worth holding.

那么，伙计，你先来开始回答今天的第一个听众问题吧？

So do you wanna just get us started, mate, with the first listener question for today?

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Absolutely.

非常期待这一期。

Looking forward to this episode.

所以我们今天第一个听众问题是：我有个基础问题。

So our first listener question for today is, I have a basic question.

我每年投资16,000美元。

I'm investing $16,000 a year.

是全部投入VDHG，还是分散到VAS、VAE和VTS更好？

Is it better to put it all into VDHG or split it into VAS, VAE, and VTS?

我想拥有对不同ETF的控制权，但也在考虑分散投资会延长我达到临界规模的时间。

I want the control of different ETFs, but I'm thinking about the time it will take to get to critical mass by dividing up.

这就是问题。

That's the question.

为了更清楚地说明这个问题，我看到一个更简单的类似问题，或许也能帮助我们的听众理解：有人会问，我应该投资VDHG还是DHHF？

Now just to flourish that question a little bit, a simpler version of that question that I see, which is sort of similar and might also help our listeners understand is someone will say, should I invest in something like a VDHG or DHHF?

我认为，比如DHHF这样的Beta股ETF，大约三分之一是澳大利亚的，三分之二是全球的，大致如此。

And I think DHHF, for instance, a beta shares ETF is approximately one third Australian and two thirds global, you know, roughly or the roundabout.

你可以去查看其事实说明书，或者选择投资VAS、VGS，也就是分别投资澳大利亚和全球的ETF。

You can go look it up on the fact sheet or should I invest in VAS, VGS, which is basically Australian and global ETFs separately.

这个问题我们以前在播客里也讨论过。

It's a question we've had before on the pod.

不过，我对这个有一些想法，但我想先听听你的看法，戴夫。

But, you know, I have a few thoughts on this, but I'd be curious on yours first, Dave.

对于这类问题，你更倾向于哪种方式？

Which way do you lean with this stuff?

一般来说，我倾向于和听众一样，更喜欢对投资组合中每一部分的配置有更多控制权，了解为什么这样配置，并能随着时间调整。

In general, I kind of lean where the listener leans, is preferring to have more control over how much you're investing in each part of your portfolio and why and the ability to modify or tweak that over time.

这有几个原因。

And that's for a couple of reasons.

我不反对静态配置的想法，但这并不意味着我想要那些高增长ETF里特定的配置比例。

I don't mind the idea of a static allocation, but it doesn't mean I want the specific allocation that's in those particular high growth ETFs.

对我来说，这并不太管用，因为我一开始是全投澳大利亚市场，后来才逐步加入全球资产，现在正在逐步 buildup。

For me, that didn't really work because I started with an all Aussie portfolio, then I've added Global Later, I'm building that up.

如果我现在再加一个全仓基金，那我就等于在澳大利亚部分重复投资了，对吧？而我还在建设全球部分。

If I was to then add all in one fund now, I'm just kind of doubling up on the Aussie side, right, while I build the global side.

所以对我而言，这并没有太大意义。

So that wouldn't really make too much sense in my case.

是的。

Yeah.

我喜欢这种掌控感。

I like the control.

我喜欢能够买入近期下跌或表现较差资产的想法。

I like the idea of being able to buy something that's gone down recently or performed worse.

所以，显然，如果你有更多组成部分，你可以拥有同样的投资组合，只是将其拆分成不同部分。

So, obviously, if you have more moving parts, you can have the same portfolio but just split into different parts.

每个月它们的表现都会有所不同。

And they'll all be performing at different rates every month.

每两个月，它们会根据各自的市场表现波动。

Every two months, they're going to fluctuate according to their own market performance.

将它们分开，使用两三个ETF而不是只有一个，能让你有更多机会买入价格下跌的资产。

Having them split up and having two or three ETFs instead of just one gives you more chance to buy something that's down.

也许美国市场自你上次投资以来上涨了7%，但澳大利亚市场下跌了3%。

Maybe The US market's gone up 7% since you last invested, but the Aussie market's gone down 3%.

因此，你可能会想增加澳大利亚资产的持仓，因为此时它价值更高或更便宜，反之亦然。

So you might then want to top up your Aussie holding because it's better value or it's cheaper at that time or vice versa.

反过来，同样的道理也成立。

And the same works in reverse, obviously.

当你最终依靠投资组合生活时，你可以从表现优异的资产中提取部分收益，作为收入来源。

When you eventually live off a portfolio, you can take some of the profits if you're harvesting some gains to live on as an income source.

你可以从近期表现优异的持仓中提取收益，而不是从表现不佳的持仓中提取，因为你绝对不希望从近期表现不佳的资产中抽走资金。

You can do that from a holding that's outperformed recently rather than underperformed because you definitely don't want to take away from something that's underperformed recently.

这大概就是我思考问题的方式。

That's the general way I kinda think about.

我不了解你的投资组合是怎么样的，伙计。

I don't know about you with your portfolio, mate.

你是怎么考虑把投资分散开，而不是全部

How do you kinda think about the splitting it up versus the all

集中在一起的呢？

in one style?

我以前可能更倾向于非此即彼，但现在我可能更倾向于你所持的观点。

I think I used to be a bit more either or for this one, but I probably grown more towards where you stand with things.

我认为，对于任何投资者来说，分散投资是个好原则。

I think as a general rule for anyone investing, it's good to split it up.

你不必把投资分得过于细致，但至少把像VDHG、DHHF这类广泛型ETF拆分成两三个或四个不同的投资，是个不错的起点。

You don't have to split it up to the nth degree, but at least splitting up these broad based ETFs and like the the classic examples of VDHG, DHHF, at least splitting those up into, you know, two, three or four things is a good place to start.

我认为这可能有一两个主要例外，如果你刚开始投资，从心理层面来说，只投资像VDHG或DHHF这样的产品是个不错的选择，因为它简单。

I think there's two or probably one main exception to that, maybe two exceptions to that, which is if you're really, really early on in your investing journey, just psychologically, it can be a good idea to just invest in a VDHD or DHHF type investment because it's simple.

你只需要把钱投进一个产品，这样会让人感觉更安心、更稳妥。

It's just one thing you're putting your money into, it can be very comfortable and safe.

而且你面对的选项也不会那么多，不会让你眼花缭乱。

And there's less kind of dials shooting in different directions at you.

另一种情况是，如果你刚开始投资，资金不多，比如你现在只有1200美元可以投资，我不会建议你一开始就去买三四个ETF，因为如果你第一年只存下两三千块，很多平台都有固定的交易手续费，而且澳洲证交所还有500美元的最低买入门槛。

The other circumstance is if if you're just starting off and you don't have a lot of capital, like if you had $1,200 to invest right now, I wouldn't recommend you start going to try and buy three or four ETFs, you know, if like all you're going to save in your first year is like 2 or $3 because, you know, many platforms have fixed brokerage costs and you know, the ASX has $500 buy in minimums.

而且以前有一段时间，比如IVV的股价高达每股500美元，这就很难买少量份额，诸如此类的问题。

And, you know, there was a period where IVV was for instance, being sold like $500 a share, which makes it difficult to buy small parcels and, stuff like that.

所以我确实很支持分散投资，但我就拿我这里的一个小投资组合来给你举个例子，戴夫。

So I I definitely am like a split up fan, but I'm just looking at, you know, one of my little portfolios here, Dave.

我也想顺便让我们的听众了解一下。

And I think just for the benefit of our listeners.

现在我投资时，基本上只投像这样的品种——当然这会不断变化。

Nowadays, when I invest, I pretty much only invest in like, and this changes all the time.

所以，比如在2025年，我的大部分投资都集中在VAS或IVV上。

So but, you know, 2025, most of my investments have been in VAS or IVV.

对吧？

Right?

基本上就是澳大利亚或美国。

Basically been like Australia or US.

不过在此之前，我更多地投资于VGS。

Before that though, I was investing a lot more in VGS.

再之前，我只投资于DHHF。

And then before that, I was only investing in DHHF.

直到今天，DHHF仍然占我投资组合的40%，尽管我已不再向它投入资金。

And even to this day, DHHF is still 40% of my portfolio, even though I don't invest in it at all.

这是因为有一段时间我确实一直在投资它。

And that's because for a while I just did invest in it.

我觉得，人们很容易陷入一种类似人生选择的思维模式：你是喜欢手动操作的人，还是自动操作的人？

And I think, you know, people can get very, you know, it's it's like it's like a life choice or something like, are you a manual person or an automatic person?

但先选择一种方式，之后再换另一种，也没问题。

But it's like it's like fine to be one and then the other later.

我曾经往DHHF里投入了数万美元，但后来就不再往里加钱了，转而把资金投入其他产品。

Like, I put tens of thousands of dollars into DHHF and then at some point just stop putting more money into DHHF and then just put money into other stuff.

所以如果你正坐在那儿犹豫不决，其实也没关系，因为你随时可以决定下一笔钱投到哪里。

So if you're sitting around not being sure, it doesn't really matter because you can just change where you put the next money.

不过我要澄清一点，我并没有被禁止卖出DHHF。

Now nothing to be clear stops me selling the DHHF.

但目前来看，它在过去两年里上涨了大约20%。

But right now it's up over like two years about 20%.

我不愿意卖出它，从而无谓地产生税务负担。

And it's like I don't wanna sell that and incur a tax debt unnecessarily.

但如果市场出现大幅崩盘，我的DHHF从上涨20%跌到不赚不赔的水平，我可能会卖掉它，然后更广泛地买入更多VAS和IVB。

But you know, if there was a massive market crash and my DHHF went from 20% up down to 0% up where I could sell it and it wouldn't be a loss or a gain, I probably would sell it and buy more VAS and IVB broadly speaking.

但既然我本来就持有它，而且它一直在上涨，我就觉得没必要非得把所有钱都换成别的东西。

But the fact that I already owned it and it was already going up, it didn't feel necessary to, like, have to change all my money to be a different thing.

不过，简短的回答是：如今，如果你不是新手，也不缺资金，我认为把资金分散投资是个好主意，因为你拥有更多控制权，戴夫也已经详细说明了所有这些理由。

But, yes, the short answer is nowadays and generally, if you're not a beginner or poor on capital, I think I think splitting it up is a good idea because you just have more control, and Dave kind of outlined all the reasons for that.

我认为一站式基金的主要优势在于，它能消除你想要频繁调整投资组合的冲动。

The major advantage of the all in one funds, I think, is it removes your desire to kind of tinker with your investments.

我的意思是，很多参与这种自己挑选ETF策略的人，我发现他们往往会想得太多。

I mean, a lot of people who get involved in this type of strategy where you're picking your own ETFs, I notice a lot of people tend to overthink it a lot.

我应该在这上面配置10%还是在那个上面配置20%？

Should I have 10% in this one or 20% in this one?

这个市场表现这样，但另一个市场却表现不同。

And this market's performing this way, but this other market's performing this way.

也许我该调整一下我的配置。

Maybe I should change my allocation.

配置。

Allocation.

他们心里总是不断重新评估，怀疑自己的策略是否该继续下去。

And there's this constant recalibration in their mind over whether their strategy is the right one to continue with.

我发现很多人对这类事情太过纠结了。

I find a lot of people over agonizing about this sort of thing.

所以，一站式基金的美妙之处就在于，它消除了你反复怀疑自己、不断调整、试图找到一个能超越所有其他组合的完美最优投资组合的冲动——这种想法其实有点荒谬。

And so the all in one funds are beautiful for the reason that it takes away that urge to second guess yourself and to tinker with things to try and find some sort of a perfect optimal portfolio that's going to outperform all the others, which is a little bit silly to try and figure out.

但一旦你对投资产生热情，几乎就无法控制自己。

But you almost can't help yourself once you get enthusiastic about investing.

我认为，从简化投资的角度来看，这些基金确实有巨大优势，因为它们的配置已经非常合理。

I do think there is massive merit in those funds in the lens of keeping it simple because it's a perfectly good allocation.

如果这种简化能帮助你成为更好的投资者，因为行为上的好处，那么支付稍高的费用，以及无法在某项资产下跌时额外加仓，我认为这并不重要，因为良好的行为本身反而能让你超越其他投资组合可能带来的收益——否则你可能会忍不住频繁买卖、不断调整，从而破坏了原本的收益。

If that's going to help you become a better investor because of the behavioural reasons, then paying a slightly higher fee and not being able to top up the most optimal holding when it's down more than the rest of your portfolio, I don't think that's going to matter too much because the behaviour itself can actually help you outperform what you could otherwise achieve with a different portfolio because you might have the urge to buy and sell more and adjust things and kind of ruin the benefits for yourself, let's say.

不过，把所有东西压缩成一个产品也是一把双刃剑，这也是像VDHD或DHHF这样的产品令人困扰的地方之一：很难理解宏观经济如何影响你的投资组合。

I think it's a double edged sword to compressing it into one thing as well, which is one of the things that sucks about having a VDHD or DHHF is that it's really hard to understand aspects of how macroeconomics affects your portfolio.

有时候，我真的很喜欢每个月登录账户，看看IVV比VAS表现好多少，或者反过来，然后心想：哦，原来如此。

Like, sometimes I really like being able to log in to my portfolio every month and see how much better IVV is done than VAS or vice versa and be like, oh, okay.

这非常有趣，让我感觉自己正在理解经济不同层面的运行状况，也让我觉得更有知识、更自信。

That's really interesting and feel like I'm understanding how, you know, different aspects of the economy are going and it helps me feel educated and whatnot.

但当我查看这些DHHF时，它们只是简单地上涨或下跌，我却完全不知道为什么。

Whereas when I look at these DHHFs, it just kinda goes up or down and I'm like, I don't know why.

因为这里面涉及的因素太多了。

Because there's so much.

它太分散了，你知道，除非遇到像新冠疫情这样的大事，否则很难理解它的波动。

It's so diversified, you know, that it's it's very difficult to you know, short of a COVID or something, it's very difficult to make sense of it.

但另一方面，这类DHHF、ADHD类产品的一个好处是，当坏事真的发生时，它们往往会让你惊讶于自己受的影响有多小。

But the flip side of that is that one of the cool things about these, like, DHHF, ADHD type products is that when something bad does happen, they can often surprise you as to how much they're not affected.

我记得，好像是特朗普的关税政策那会儿。

You know, like I remember I think it was like the Trump tariff stuff.

我当时心想，糟了。

You know, I was like, oh, no.

我的投资组合。

My portfolio.

我登录一看，果然IVV和NDQ都跌得惨不忍睹。

And I logged in and it was like obviously IVV and NDQ had gone down the hole.

但我看了看DHHF或者VGS之类的，发现影响并不大。

But then I looked at like the DHHF and the VGS or something else and it was like not that affected.

我当时就想，哦，这还不错。

And I was like, oh, that's nice.

这种高度分散化本身也带来了一种好处，因为你知道，可怕的事情发生时，它几乎不会出现任何极端的波动。

Like, there's a there's a niceness that comes from it being so diversified too because, you know, it's just very rare that horrible things happen and it, you know, goes in any kinds of crazy directions, basically.

回到听众的问题，他们有点疑惑，持有多个ETF是否会拖慢他们达到关键规模的速度，用他们的话说，就是构建投资组合的速度。

Just to circle back to the listener's question, they were kind of wondering whether having multiple ETFs actually slows down their ability to get to critical mass, they put it, in terms of building their portfolio.

他们的想法是，把资金分散到三个地方，必然会导致增长更慢或回报更低，而不是全部投入一个产品。

That's the idea that splitting your money across three things will necessarily get you slower growth or lower returns than having it all in one thing.

但其实这并不正确，所以你不必为此担心。

But that's actually not true, so that's not something to worry about.

如果你简单地想一想，无论是把10万美元全投在VAS上，还是把5万美元投在VAS上、另外5万美元投在A200上（这是BetaShares的ASX 200指数基金），最终的结果基本是一样的。

If you think about it very simply, whether you've got a $100,000 in VAS or $50,000 in VAS and $50,000 in A200, which is the ASX 200 index fund from BetaShares, you're gonna get the same outcome, basically.

对吧？

Right?

你的资金分散在两个领域，并不会导致增长变少。

You're not gonna get less growth because your money's split across two areas.

你的回报和投资组合的增长，取决于你总投资的金额，而不是你选择了一个基金还是多个基金。

Your returns and your portfolio growth is based on the total number of dollars you have invested, not whether you have one fund or multiple funds as such.

我发现这是初学者中一种常见的误解，这可以理解。

I find that's a common misconception among beginners and it's understandable.

与此相关的一个我也经常看到的误区是，人们倾向于认为每股价格较低的股票或ETF会比每股价格较高的更容易增长。

One that's related to that that I see quite a lot as well is the bias towards thinking that a share or an ETF with a lower price per share is going to grow easily or more easily than one that has a higher price per share.

就像你之前提到的，我觉得你说过IVV每股大约500美元之类的。

Like you mentioned before, I think you said IVV was $500 a share or something like that.

所以如果你把它和另一个只有50美元每股的美国指数基金比较，你可能会想，同样的钱我能买十倍多的份额。

So then if you compare it to maybe there's another US index fund that's only $50 a share, you might think, well, I can buy 10 times more shares for the same number of dollars.

所以也许我能获得更好的回报。

So maybe I'll get better returns.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

这个观点我也总是被它误导。

That one that one always gets me as well.

我认为在考虑像VDHD这样的产品时，最后两点需要留意。

I think probably just the two last things to think about when it comes to something like a VDHD.

VDHD特别地将其10%的持仓配置在固定收益资产上，我们稍后也会谈到这一点。

VDHD specifically also does 10% of its holdings is in fixed interest, which we're gonna talk about later as well.

简单来说，我觉得这就像储蓄账户一样容易理解。

Basically means, you know, savings accounts is like a really simple way I think about it.

这意味着VDHD的一部分资产确实是多元化的，因为它持有相当稳定的一部分投资组合。

That does mean that like a portion of VDHD is truly diversified in the sense that it holds like a a a very nonvoluntile portion of its portfolio.

而且自然地，VDHG这样的ETF，越是多元化、规模越大，就越需要频繁买卖和再平衡，从而产生各种税务方面的成本。

And also naturally, VDHG, like all like, the more diversified and the bigger the ETF is, the more they're gonna have to buy and sell and rebalance and incur other kinds of, you know, tax things.

这在某些方面可能显得很奇怪，因为有时候Dave说长期表现其实是一样的，而他是对的。

And it can be very strange in some ways because sometimes, you know, Dave says the performance over the long term is the same, and he he's right.

Dave经常是对的。

Dave's often right.

事实上，Dave几乎总是对的。

Dave's nearly always right, in fact.

但其中的微妙之处在于，这些产品显然都有细微的差别。

But it's like the subtlety is like the disclaimer there is that obviously they're all subtly different products.

这并不会改变宏观格局。

That's not gonna change the macro picture.

但像VDHG这样的大型ETF，由于需要频繁再平衡，更可能向你支付分红而非资本增值，因为资金的运作方式本就如此。

But like VDHG and like, the bigger an ETF is and the more it has to rebalance, the more it's going to probably end up paying you distributions as opposed to growth because it has to, you know that's just how the money is going to manifest.

而且，你知道，VDSG也持有一些债券，但这并不意味着它的表现会截然不同。

And, you know, VDSG has some bonds again, that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to do anything way, way different.

但显然，如果你认为可以通过完美组合VAS、VAU和VTS来匹配这些宽基ETF的话。

But obviously, like, if you if you think you get the perfect allocation of VAS, VAU and VTS, or something to match these broad based ETFs.

但现实是，当你一个月后登录账户时，表现并不会相同。

The reality is the performance is not going to be the same when you log in like a month later.

从长期来看，表现可能相同，或者足够接近，只要你考虑到股息和其他各种因素，就无需担心。

Over the long term, it might be the same or close enough the same that you don't worry about it once you take into account dividends and all this other kind of stuff.

但显然，由于众多细微因素的影响，表现总会有所差异，甚至最终还包括你的边际税率。

But obviously, it's always gonna vary to some degree based on tons of little factors, even including at the end of the day, your marginal tax rate.

所以别把它当成完全相等的东西。

So so don't treat it as, you know, literally equal.

把它看作是你所说的，实际上是一样的就可以了。

Treat it as, I guess, what you call, like, effectively the same.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这样说很恰当。

I think that's a good way to put it.

对于听众来说，如果你更喜欢持有多个ETF而不是全部集中在一个上，那就继续使用多个ETF吧。

So for the listener, I would say if you prefer having multiple ETFs instead of all in one, then continue with the multiple ETFs.

你不必担心因为把资金分散在多个ETF而不是一个上，就会导致收益变差。

You don't really have to worry that you're somehow thinning your money out and you're gonna get a worse outcome because of having it in multiple ETFs instead of one.

对。

Yep.

那我们继续下一个问题，戴夫。

So let's move on to our next question, Dave.

这个问题是关于Coastfire的。

This question is about Coastfire.

这是问题的内容。

Here's the question.

最近，我听到了很多关于Coastfire的说法，这个概念真的很吸引我。

Lately, I've been hearing a lot about Coastfire and the concept really appeals to me.

我喜欢放慢脚步、享受过程，而不是追求彻底提前退休的非黑即白模式。

I like the idea of slowing down, enjoying the journey, and not pushing for the all or nothing of early retirement.

我和我的伴侣都喜欢自己的工作，但每周结束时都感到精疲力尽，希望现在就能更好地享受生活。

My partner and I both enjoy our work, but find that we're exhausted at the end of the week and want to make the most of our lives now.

由于我们所处的行业，如果我们只想覆盖生活开销，完全可以减少工作量，转为兼职或合同制工作。

Because of the industries we're in, we could scale down to part time or contract work if we wanted to just cover our living expenses.

我很想听听你对CoastFire的看法。

I'd love to know your opinion on CoastFire.

你是否曾经考虑过，或者会考虑在自己的人生旅程中采用这种方式？

Is this something you would do or have considered in your own journeys?

这是个很好的问题。

That's a great question.

我想为大家澄清一下，所谓的‘慢退’，并不是说你得拼命工作到极致，然后彻底退休，再也不用工作。

And I think just to clarify for people, coast fire, think of it like, there's no such thing as like, you're working the hardest thing.

慢退可以简单理解为：你有足够的钱可以永远做兼职，或者兼职三十年，而不是再拼命干十年，之后就什么都不做了。

And then, know, you finally retired and never have to work again, coast fire an easy way to imagine it's like you have enough money to work part time forever or part time for thirty years, as opposed to, you know, going hardcore for another ten just to then do nothing after that.

我确实想过一点关于慢退的事情。

I thought a little bit about coast fire.

但你对这类事情怎么看呢，戴夫？你觉得这值得吗？是个好主意吗？或者有时候放慢节奏，不那么早退休，但更舒适地生活？

But what's what's your your kind of view on that stuff, Dave, around, you know, is it is it worth it or a good idea about it or take your foot off the accelerator sometimes and retire less early but more comfortably?

在很多情况下，这确实值得，因为我发现很多人并不一定想尽快实现完全的财务自由。

It's definitely worth it in many cases because a lot of people I'm finding are not necessarily wanting so much to be completely financially independent, like as quickly as possible.

他们更希望储蓄和投资，让自己能每周多休息几天。

They're more wanting to save and invest to get themselves in a position where they can just have a couple more days off each week.

不是每周工作五天，而是只工作两三天。

Instead of working five days, they work two or three.

人们非常乐意达到这种状态。

People are more than happy to get to that outcome.

这就是 coast fire 以及各种形式的半退休或不同类型的半退休发挥作用的地方。

This is where coast fire and different versions of semi retirement or different flavors of semi retirement come into play.

因为正如你所说的，海登，通过这些策略，你可以更早退休，因为你不需要那么多钱。

Because like you said, Hayden, you can retire sooner with these sorts of strategies because you don't quite need as much.

这样做的缺点是，显然你需要在那段兼职工作期间更长时间地工作，以弥补差距，直到实现完全的财务自由。

The downside to that is it obviously means you have to work longer in that period of part time work to make up the difference until you can reach full financial independence.

就我个人而言，拥有完全的自由、不必再工作的想法太过强烈，我无法忽视，也无法早早抽身去选择半退休之类的路径。

For me personally, the idea of having complete freedom and not having to work was far too that was too strong of a desire for me to ignore and pull the pin early and semi retire and that sort of thing.

我内心几乎渴望一种确定无疑的安心感——再也不用工作，这种渴望如此强烈，以至于我无法接受任何低于这个目标的选择。

Just wanted almost like the mental certainty of not having to work was just so powerful in my mind that I didn't want anything less than that.

我就想要那样，然后就结束了。

I just wanted that and then that was it.

我根本没有认真考虑过半退休之类的事情。

I didn't really contemplate semi retirement or anything.

但公平地说，当时我并不知道这会如何发展，也不清楚它具体是什么样子，因为那时候我在网上几乎找不到关于这类话题的任何内容，毕竟那是十年前的事了。

But to be fair, I didn't know exactly how that would play out or what that looked like back then because there wasn't much content that I had found on the internet about this sort of stuff back then because this is a good ten years ago.

对吧？

Right?

自那以后，随着可获取的信息量和人们采用的策略发生了巨大变化，情况已经大不相同了。

Things have changed quite a bit since then with the amount of information available and strategies that people are employing and that sort of thing.

但我只能想象，如果能找到真正喜欢的兼职工作，我才会那样做。

But I could only imagine myself doing it if I found some truly enjoyable part time work.

但除此之外，我实在无法想象自己再继续开叉车十年，或做类似的事情。

But barring that, which I couldn't really imagine myself doing my forklift work on an ongoing basis for another ten years or anything like that.

所以我会选择追求完全财务自由，老实说，我可能还是会这么做。

So aim for full FI and I probably would again, to be honest.

我只是喜欢那种近乎最终结局的感觉。

I just like the almost like the finality of it.

并不是说这是个万无一失、绝对不用再工作的财务自由计划，但我就是喜欢达成这个目标后那种实实在在的感觉。

And not to say that you're it's like a bulletproof guaranteed FI plan where you absolutely never have to work again, but I just like the the concreteness of have having hit that goal, I think.

这对我来说意义重大。

That's that that meant a lot to me.

所以我自己不会选择这条路，但它确实适用于很多人。

So I I wouldn't personally opt for it, but it does apply and it does fit a lot of people.

所以我不确定你是怎么看的。

So I'm not sure how you see it.

我觉得我对这件事的看法和很多其他事情一样，戴夫，那就是我认为人们通常应该尽自己最大的努力工作。

So I think how I feel about this is similar to a lot of things, Dave, which is that I think people should generally work as hard as they can.

这里的关键词是‘尽最大努力’，然后你就别再更努力了。

Can as the keyword there, and then you know, not work any harder.

而‘尽最大努力’通常取决于什么是对健康和可持续的。

And can is usually based on what's like healthy and sustainable.

这对每个人来说都不同，你知道，很多人试图效仿戴夫的做法。

And that's different for every person, you know, like a lot of people out there, they tried to do what Dave did.

如果他们像戴夫那样尽早实现财务自由，恐怕早就被送进精神病院了。

And, know, FI as early as Dave did, they'd probably be bouncing against the walls in a mental asylum.

你知道，戴夫是个非常专注、直率的人，并不是每个人都是这样的。

You know, Dave's a very focused, straightforward individual and not everyone is is like that.

归根结底，对我来说，‘躺平财务自由’这个概念并不是那么回事，你可以这样理解。

At the end of the day, you know, coast fire as a concept for me isn't really that, like, you know, like, you could think about it this way.

好的。

Okay.

问题是，我该选择躺平财务自由吗？

The question, should I coast fire?

也就是说，我该少干点活，转为兼职吗？

As saying, should I do less work and go part time?

那些选择躺平财务自由的人，和那些正处于财务自由途中、恰好在做兼职的人，之间有什么区别呢？

What's the difference between someone who's coast fire and someone who's just like, you know, halfway on the journey to being financially independent, who just happens to be part time, you know?

答案是，其实差别不大，因为你在财务自由之路上走得越远，通常就越有保障，这很合理。

And the answer is like, not a ton in the sense that like, you know, the further you are along the FI journey, the better protected you are generally, which makes sense.

你离目标越近，失去工作或其他意外情况对你的影响就越小，但你还没到达自己理想的状态。

Like the the less you losing a job or some other kind of circumstance is gonna hurt you, but you're not where you want to be yet.

我认为，当我想到‘延迟退休’时，它其实是一种很好的方式，让人感觉我并没有贬低它，而是能让人觉得已经达成了一些成就，或迈过了一个里程碑，即使你还没完全达到理想中的状态。

And I think when I think of coastfire, coastfire is a really nice way I think for people to feel like I'm not trying to diminish it, but it's like it's a nice way to feel like you have achieved something or hit a milestone, even though you're not exactly where you want to be yet.

一般来说，假设人们说的‘延迟退休’是指想放慢节奏，有些人则真的只想一直兼职工作下去。

You know, generally speaking, maybe assuming people mean coast fires and I want to slow down some people mean coast fire like I just want to work part time till like forever, basically.

但简短的回答是，我认为这没什么问题，因为我不觉得这有好坏之分，只是每个人有不同的界限而已。

But short answer is, I don't think there's problems with it because I don't think if someone was like, it's good or bad, it's just like, some people have different limits.

不仅如此，有些人有不同的界限，有些人则在人生的不同阶段有不同的界限。

And and not only that just some people have different limits, some people at different times in their lives have different limits.

所以，如果你正处于人生或财务自由旅程中的某个阶段，觉得需要调整工作状态，以便更好地照顾当下的自己，保持当前的身心健康，而这会以牺牲未来目标的实现为一定代价时，

So if you're at a stage of your life or your journey where you feel like you need to change your work circumstance, in order to look after yourself more in the present, to stay healthy and sustainably healthy in the present, and that's going to come at some finite cost of where you you achieve a future goal.

那当然可以。

It's like, sure.

听起来不错。

It sounds good.

你知道，有时候也会发生完全相反的情况。

You know, like, there's the opposite thing that happens sometimes.

对吧？

Right?

也就是说，当你在稳步前进时，会发生什么呢？

Which is like, what happens when, you know, you might be plotting along?

我遇到过这种情况，你知道，你正在赚钱，然后你突然意识到，嘿。

This has happened to me, and, know, you're making some money, and then you realize, hey.

我有机会赚更多钱，或者找份兼职。

I have the opportunity to make more money or pick up a side hustle.

你接了更多的活。

You pick up more jobs.

我们不会坐在那儿想，哦，我现在进入超速模式了，你知道的，类似这种。

You know, we don't sit around being like, oh, I'm now in hyper fire, you know, something.

我们只是觉得，我要做点不一样的事，这会让现在的生活更辛苦一点，但能提前实现目标。

We're just like, I just I'm gonna be doing something different, and it's gonna it's gonna make my life a little harder right now and bring forward the goal a little sooner.

只要我自己觉得没问题，那就很好。

And as long as I'm okay, then this is good.

所以，我觉得你没必要用非黑即白的方式去思考这个问题。

So, you know, I would just say, you know, you don't have to think about it in binary terms.

标签挺好的，因为它们能帮助我们理解事物。

Labels are cool because they help us understand stuff.

但如果你逼得太紧，那就稍微放松一点吧。

But if you if you're pushing too hard, just, you know, just unwind a bit.

对我而言，一个简单的例子是：过去两年我工作特别忙，于是开始经常外食。

And like a simple example for me is like, I'm I've been so busy the last two years with work, and I've just started buying food out a lot.

算下来，我估计每年多花了大约4美元。

And it's probably cost me, I reckon, maybe something in the realm of an extra $4 a year.

显然，这每年4美元的开销会在一定程度上拖慢我的财务自由进程。

And obviously, that $4 a year is gonna like slow down the FI journey to some degree.

但问题是，我知道如果我整天忙着购物、做饭、打扫，只为了自己，那会非常累人。

But it's like, you know, I know that if I'm constantly shopping and cooking and cleaning a lot just for myself, it's gonna be very taxing.

我会变得非常疲惫，连睡眠和其他各方面都顾不上了。

And I'm gonna get very tired and I'm not gonna look after my sleep and all these other kinds of things.

我不觉得这有什么问题。

And I don't think there's a problem with that.

在另一种人生或不同情况下，我可能没那么容易受这种影响，但现在的我就是这样，未来也可能改变。

In another life, you know, or another circumstance, I I may be less susceptible to that, but that's just not me right now and that might change in the future.

所以简而言之，只要是你当时觉得对的事情，那就一切都好。

So I think basically short answer is everything's everything's fine if it's if it's, you know, what's right for you at the time.

是的。

Yeah.

想早点优先安排时间，我觉得没什么不对。

Don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to prioritise time earlier.

你本质上是提前享受一部分自由，从而推迟最终实现财务独立的时间，这对很多人来说是有道理的，因为他们可能已经取得了不错的进展，于是想：好吧。

You're basically just front loading some of the freedom earlier to then delay the final FI date longer, which can make sense for a lot of people because maybe they've got to a decent point so far and they're like, Okay.

我们有年幼的孩子。

We've got some young kids.

让我们在孩子上学、开始过那种生活之前，好好利用接下来的五年时光。

Let's make the most of the next five years with our young kids before they're off at school and they do that sort of thing.

然后，也许我们可以在之后稍微增加一些工作量，正如你之前提到的，海登，这可以在不同时间以不同层次进行。

Then maybe we'll ramp up work a little bit after It can be done in different levels at different times, to your point before, Hayden.

我认为在许多情况下这很有道理，但只是要知道你正在推迟财务自由日期，这可能完全没问题，也符合你的意愿。

I think it can make a lot of sense in many cases, but just going knowing that you are delaying the FY date, which may or not be perfectly fine and what you want to do.

你也可以通过调整数字和自己的行为来创造你想要的结果。

You can also manufacture the numbers and massage the numbers and your own actions to create the outcome you want.

也许目前，如果你继续沿着现在的轨迹前进，你还需要七到八年才能达到财务自由。

Maybe at the moment, if you were to continue on your current trajectory, you're going to reach FI in another seven or eight years.

但感觉等那么久才停下脚步、享受更多当下的自由，实在太漫长了。

That just feels like too long before you can then take your foot off the gas and enjoy more freedom in your life now.

好吧，没问题。

Okay, fine.

你决定现在就开始半退休，慢慢前行，那么由于你只做兼职，可能还要再过十五年才能达到完整的财务自由目标。

You decide to coast fire now so you can cruise along and then maybe you won't reach your total FI number for another fifteen years because you're working part time.

这可能也完全没问题。

That might also be fine.

但在这个过程中，你心里可能会想：我真的不希望是十五年，我希望能早点实现。

But then maybe in your head along the way, you're like, I really don't want it to be fifteen years, I want it to be a bit sooner.

所以你可能会多做一点工作，或者更优化一下财务，试图把目标提前到十三年、十二年、十一年、十年。

So then maybe you do a little bit extra work or you optimise your finances a bit more to try and bring it closer to thirteen, twelve, eleven, ten years.

你可以根据当时优先级的变化，随时调整计划，因为这些优先级本身也会变化。

You can change things along the way depending on your priorities at the time and as those things shift as well.

所以这不必是一个一成不变的决定。

So it doesn't have to be a concrete decision.

有意思的是，你提到把事情提前。

It's funny, you know, you talk about bringing forward stuff.

从一个非常数学化的角度来看，我以前也说过，一个非常简单的经验法则是：现在的一美元，十年后值两美元，二十年后值三美元，三十年后值四美元，五十年后值五美元，前提是经过通胀调整后的实际价值。

A really mathematical way to think about it, and I've talked about this before, is like you can basically like, a really, really easy rule of thumb is like a dollar now is $2 and ten years, $3 and twenty years, $4 and thirty years, $5 and fifty years, assuming that, you know, like in in post inflation adjusted.

当然，这是一个非常粗略的估算，因为钱是复利增长的，呈非线性变化。

Now, that's a very crude metric because, obviously money compounds over time, which is nonlinear.

所以这个算法有点偏差，但它是一个很好的简单方法，帮助你理解现在的一美元和未来一美元的价值差异。

So it's a little bit off center, but it's a really good simple way to try and understand the value of a dollar now versus in the future.

所以另一种思考方式是，假设你30岁，计划在40岁退休，你可能会想，哦，我想多花钱或者少工作，好好照顾自己。

So another way you can think about it is let's say, you know, you're 30 years old and you intend to f I at 40 and you're like, oh, I've I've you know, I wanna spend money or work less to look after myself.

你可以问自己一个很简单的问题：如果你现在放弃一杯4美元的咖啡，那你可以问问自己，我现在真的想要这杯咖啡吗？也许我可以在十到十五年内少喝两杯咖啡？

You could ask yourself a pretty simple question, which is like, if you're foregoing a $4 coffee now, you can ask yourself, do I want this coffee now and maybe I'll just have two less coffees in ten or fifteen years?

很多时候，答案都会是肯定的，因为这还是同一个人。

And a lot of the time the answer is gonna be yes because it's still the same person.

你要在未来照顾的那个人，其实就是你现在正在照顾的自己。

You know, the person you're trying to look after in the future is the person you're trying to look after now.

不存在脱离背景的价值。

And there's no such thing as value in a vacuum.

我们给予自己的每一件事，在人生不同阶段对我们的意义都或多或少有所不同。

Every single thing we give ourselves means more or less to us at different times in our lives.

坦白说，很多时候，现在的东西对我们来说意义更大。

And frankly, quite often, it means more, you know, now.

随着我财富的积累和年龄的增长，几乎所有我得到的东西，都比年轻时对我的意义更小了。

Pretty much everything I get as I build wealth proportion and get older means less to me as it did when I was younger.

你知道，现在买一台PlayStation 5，虽然我从来没拥有过，但对我来说的意义远不如我20岁的时候。

You know, like buying myself a PlayStation five now, not that I've ever had one, would mean way less to me than when I was 20.

你知道，这确实变得不那么重要了。

You know, definitely factors less.

我认为这一点很重要，因为有时候我们会剥夺自己当下的舒适。

And I think that's important to to consider because sometimes we deprive ourself comforts in the moment.

但如果你想想十年前的生活，你可能会发现，那些能缓解日常压力的小事，现在对你来说根本没那么重要了。

But if you think about what life was like ten years ago, you're probably gonna care way less about some of these little things that, know, help take the edge off your day.

我不知道戴夫作为一个基本退休的成年人生活是什么样子。

Like, I don't know what Dave's life is like as a mostly retired adult.

但对我自己来说，工作十二小时后打个优步而不是坐公交，能省下二十分钟，有时候真的特别有价值。

But for myself, just man, hopping in an Uber instead of catching a bus and saving twenty minutes after I've worked twelve hours means so much now sometimes.

我并不是经常这么做，因为很多时候我还是太省钱了，但我想，如果我财务自由了，每天有更多时间，能睡上八个半小时，这种事可能就没那么重要了。

Not that I do it much because I'm still too cheap a lot of the time, but it's like that probably will mean less if I was financially independent and had more time in the day and was sleeping eight and a half hours a day.

我就觉得，好，我还是坐公交吧。

I just feel, yeah, I'll catch the bus.

没关系。

It's fine.

我有时间。

I got time.

我没什么事要做。

I got, you know, not not much to do.

所以，从当下的角度照顾好自己非常重要。

So I that perspective is really important, looking after yourself in the present.

你所做的每一个小判断都会随着你当前的处境、人生轨迹、当时的价值观以及此刻对你重要的不同事物而变化，日复一日或年复一年。

All of those little judgment calls that you make will change depending on your current situation and the trajectory that you're on and your values at the time and the different things that are important to you in the moment day by day or year by year.

你现在所做的决定，未来自我回看时会持不同看法，就像过去的你看待这些决定时也有所不同，因为你自己也已经改变了。

Those decisions you make now will be looked upon differently by your future self just as they would have been looked upon differently from your past self because you've changed as a person as well.

好的。

Alright.

接下来是今天第四个问题中的第三个。

On to question three out of four today.

我一直在听这个播客，从每一集中都获得了很棒的信息。

I've been listening to the podcast and getting some great information from each episode.

我目前持有20万美元的IVV，并且已经还清了债务，太棒了！现在每年能向这个投资投入6万美元。

I'm currently holding 200,000 of IVV, and I've got myself out of debt, woo hoo, to be able to contribute $60,000 a year into that holding.

我的计划是早点退休，大概45岁或50岁，具体取决于那时的情况。

My plan is to retire a bit early in life, maybe 45 or 50 depending on my circumstances at the time.

我的计划是靠股息生活。

The plan is to live off dividends.

不过，我知道澳大利亚股票的股息收益率更高，而且还有股息抵免优惠。

However, I'm aware that Australian shares have better dividend yield and also franking credits.

尽管如此，IVV在未来长期增长的可能性比澳大利亚股票更大。

Although, IVV has more chance to grow over time than Australian shares.

所以我的问题是，我现在36岁，未来十年是继续把钱投入IVV，然后将来卖出后再投资高股息股票更好？

So my question is, is it better for the next ten years, I'm 36 now, to keep pumping money into IVV then sell off later to invest in high dividend yield shares?

还是说，到那时资本利得税会让我吃不消，我应该现在就考虑澳大利亚股票？

Or is CGT going to smash me by that time and I should be looking at Australian shares now?

这真是个好问题。

Well, that's a great question.

我觉得在回答之前，值得提一下，我们之前大概五到十期节目就专门讨论过这个话题，你们应该去听听，我们那时详细聊了增长型投资和收益型投资的区别。

I think before we answer it, it's worth pointing out that we did a whole episode on this, probably like, you know, five to ten episodes ago, which you should check out where we talk about growth versus income investing.

不过，我也觉得在这里可以给那些错过那期节目的听众一个详细而全面的回答。

Although, I think we'll give a, you know, a good detailed answer here for our listeners who missed that episode as well.

所以，和往常一样，戴夫，你一般怎么建议？你觉得他们应该继续投入IVV，还是现在就考虑澳大利亚的股息股票？

So as always, Dave, what's what's your general answer around do you think they should be pumping into IVV or do think they should consider Australian dividend shares now?

我觉得这要看他们这么做的原因。

I'd say it would depend why, like, why they're doing it.

对吧？

Right?

如果他们只因为股息才关注澳大利亚股票，但其实更希望未来长期只投资美国股票，那我就要质疑：他们是否应该为了股息而转向澳大利亚股票，而不是想办法调整心态，安心依靠美国股票的分红和卖出获利？

So if they only if they're only interested in Australian shares for the dividends, but they would actually prefer to invest only in US shares as in, like, for the foreseeable future, then I would question whether they go with Australian shares and try and work around the behavioral side of things to feel comfortable living off The US shares and and selling off The US shares.

因为从策略上说，选择一个更符合你个人情况或心理倾向的方案是一回事，但若这个方案所依赖的投资标的或市场是你本身并不喜欢的，那就是另一回事了——这两者未来很可能会产生冲突，尤其是在资产表现低迷的时期，而每种资产都难免经历低迷期。

Because it's one thing to look at a strategy that you think is going to fit you better in terms of maybe your situation or your psychology, but it's another thing to then have that investment style be in an investment or a product or a market that you're not actually that keen on because those two things are going to conflict in the future, especially during periods of weak performance, which every asset will have a period of weak performance.

那么你会陷入一种困惑和焦虑的状态，不确定自己是否做出了正确的决定，因为你心里想：我其实更想投资那边的其他资产，但我偏偏选了这个，就是因为它的收益。

Then you're going to be in a state of confusion and anxiety around whether you made the right decision because you're like, Well, I would rather have invested in this other asset over here, but I chose this one specifically because of the income it produces.

所以，如果你根本不想单独投资澳大利亚股票，这种矛盾就会带来压力。

So That's going to cause some tension if you don't actually really want to invest in Australian shares by themselves.

我建议你仔细考虑这一点，因为如果你能克服心理上对卖出股票的抵触——作为一种通过投资组合产生收入来维持生活的策略，这其实是可行的——但显然不是每个人都对此感到自在。

I would carefully consider that because if you're able to get over the psychology of selling shares, which it's a fine strategy to do in terms of generating income to live off from the portfolio, that'll work fine, but obviously not everyone's comfortable with that.

过去，我对这个想法或策略并不认同，但我逐渐学会了用不同的方式去思考，这帮助我克服了对卖出资产的不适感。

In the past, I was not comfortable with that as an idea or as a strategy, but I kind of learned to think about it in different ways, and that helped me to get over that idea or that sort of discomfort with the idea of selling down.

也许我们可以在未来的某一集中深入探讨，因为真正促使我转变思维的，可能有三到五个不同的因素。

And maybe we'll unpack that in a future episode because there was actually probably three to five different things that led me down that path of evolving my thinking.

也许我们改天再聊这个话题。

Maybe we'll unpack that another time.

但就投资组合本身而言，以及他担心在转换投资组合时资本利得税会对他造成冲击的问题，

But in terms of the portfolio itself and the idea that he's worried about capital gains tax smashing him at that time if he was going to switch the portfolio.

如果你一次性全部转换，而且还在工作期间进行，那么确实可能产生相当大的应税收入。

It could potentially be quite damaging if you were going to do it all at one time and if you were going to do it while you're still working, then yes, that's going to create a fairly large taxable outcome.

但如果你分批进行，比如在退休后出售并重新调整投资组合，或者现在就开始逐步增加澳大利亚股票在投资组合中的比例，最终形成一种混合策略或混合型投资组合，从而兼顾两者的优势。

But if you were going to do it piece by piece, either by selling after retirement and then rejigging your portfolio then or you could do it by building up the Aussie shares in the portfolio now so you end up with this blended approach or this blended portfolio and get the benefits of both.

如果你打算这样做，那是一种无需缴税的方式。

If you were going to do that, then that is one way to do it without incurring the tax.

但如果我们来看税收本身，我觉得我听不少人提过这个担忧，但实际算一下账，情况并没有他们想象的那么糟。

But if we look at the tax itself, I think I've heard this concern from quite a few people, but it's actually not when you do the numbers, it's not going to be as bad as they think.

我觉得人们会想象：好吧。

I think people imagine, Okay.

我有一个一百万美元的投资组合。

I've got a million dollar portfolio.

我每年卖出40万美元，所以每年都要为这40万美元缴税。

I sell down $40 a year, so I'm going to have to pay tax on $40 a year.

但实际情况并非如此，因为其中很大一部分可能是你当初自己投入的本金。

But that's not actually the case because maybe it's going to be a decent chunk of it that was actually your money you put in.

假设你投入资金后，资产获得了资本增值。

So let's say you invest the money and then you get capital growth.

假设你投入的每一美元，在你取出之前都因资本增值翻了一倍。

Let's say for every dollar you've put in, that money has doubled in capital growth before you then pull it out.

这意味着，在40美元中，实际上只有20美元是资本利得。

Well, means that of the $40, only $20 of it was actually capital gains.

另外20美元是本金，是你自己的钱。

The other $20 is capital, your money.

所以你只需要对资本利得部分，即20美元，缴税。

So you only have to pay tax on the capital gains, which is $20.

但因为你持有超过十二个月，还能享受资本利得折扣，因此只需缴税一半。

But then because you get the capital gains discount from earning longer than twelve months, then it's going to be half of that.

你实际上只需对1万美元缴税，所以一旦把这些差异纳入计算，情况就明显好转了。

You're only going to pay tax on $10,000 So obviously, it starts to look a lot better once you incorporate those differences into the equation.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得戴夫已经讲了很多这些内容。

I think Dave said a lot of this.

我认为，无论是股息还是增长，它们都只是资产表现的不同方式。

I think, obviously, whether it's dividends or growth, they're just different means by which an asset performs.

如果你有长期视角，认为美国的大盘上市公司比澳大利亚的大盘上市公司表现更好，那么自然美国更值得选择，因为从长期来看，表现更好的终将表现更好，你知道的。

If you have a long term view that large cap public companies in The US will do better than large cap public companies in Australia, then naturally The US makes more sense because over the long term what does better will do better, you know.

而围绕这个的那些小细节，比如边际税率或股息抵免，通常并不会神奇地改变这一结果。

And all those little things around this or marginal tax or franking credits aren't gonna somehow magically, like, cause that to to be different by any margin typically.

但让我们假设一种情况，你认为澳大利亚的大盘股和美国的大盘股差不多。

But let's take the scenario where it's like you kind of think, you know, the Australian large caps and The US large caps.

再说一遍，所谓大盘股，我的意思是，比如VAS代表澳大利亚前300家上市公司的股票，也就是市值最大的300家公司。

And by large caps, again, you know, what what what I mean by that is like, you know, if VAS is the top 300 public listed companies in Australia, that's the 300 largest capital market cap companies.

对吧？

Right?

我敢肯定，有些人还没理解过这个术语，所以我想说明一下。

And just because I'm sure there's a percentage of people who who haven't thought about that term.

如果你假设美国和澳大利亚的大盘股表现完全相同，那么在股息导向和增长导向之间，其实并没有一个明确的更好选择。

It's like, if you imagine they're the same, US large caps and Australian large caps equal, well then there's still no real great answer as to whether, like, dividend focused or growth focused is the same.