69. FI case study: Exiting a government equity scheme

这一直是对我来说非常重要的一点，因为与此相反的情况是，你会感到被限制，陷入一种自我强加的奴役状态——你试图最大化自己的生活方式，但与此同时却极大地牺牲了自己的自由。

That's one thing that's always been super important to me because, like, the opposite side of that spectrum is where you feel restricted and you feel entrapped in, like, some sort of self imposed slavery because you're trying to, you know, max out your lifestyle, but you've really minimized your freedom at the same time.

所以人们往往会陷入这种奇怪的困境。

So it's it's this weird conundrum that people get into.

他们以为自己得到了什么，却忘记了在过程中失去了什么。

They think they're gaining something, but they've they've forgotten what they're losing in the process.

《澳洲火炉》播客是《强财澳洲》与澳大利亚最受欢迎的枯燥长期投资平台Pearler的合作项目。

The Aussie Fire podcast is a collaboration between Strong Money Australia and Pearler, Australia's favorite boring long term investing platform.

欢迎收听我们的主持人——来自《强财澳洲》的戴夫和来自Pearler的海登，他们将探讨所有关于财务自由的话题。

Join our hosts, Dave from Strong Money Australia and Hayden from Pearler as they discuss all things financial independence.

在《澳洲火炉》，我们非常推崇分享经验并谈论金钱。

At Aussie FIRE, we're big fans of sharing experiences and talking about money.

但请注意，任何建议均为一般性意见，并未考虑您的个人财务状况、需求或目标。

However, please note that any advice is general and does not consider your financial situation, needs or objectives.

请自行判断这些建议是否适合您，如有疑虑，请咨询持牌财务顾问。

Consider whether it's appropriate for you and if in doubt, speak to a licensed financial adviser.

大家好。

Hi, everyone.

欢迎回到Aussie FIRE播客。

Welcome back to the Aussie FIRE pod.

今天我们为大家带来一集非常精彩的节目。

We've got a really exciting episode for you today.

我们邀请了一位听众作为嘉宾，来分享他们的故事以及他们在实现财务自由道路上遇到的一些问题。

We have another case study with one of our listeners who's joining us to share some of their story and some questions they have to help them on the path of financial independence.

由于本集节目邀请了嘉宾并讨论了他们的具体情况，因此我们有必要在开头做一个简短的免责声明，以确保听众清楚了解这些内容不属于个人财务建议。

Because this is an episode where we do bring another guest onto the show and we do talk about their circumstances, it's important that we do give a quick disclaimer at the start just to make sure that people are aware about the degree to which this is not personal financial advice.

因此，本集中我们所讨论的所有内容都仅为一般性信息。

So everything that we cover in this episode is general information only.

这也就是说，无论是我们还是嘉宾所说的内容。

That basically means everything you hear from ourselves and from the guest.

都不涉及您的个人情况、目标、财务状况或需求。

It does not cover your personal circumstances, your objectives, your financial situations or needs.

正如我们常说的，我们不了解你，也不知道你是谁。

As we always say, we don't know you, we don't know who you are.

事实上，我们今天对这位嘉宾也几乎一无所知，只能在十到十五分钟内了解这么多。

In fact we barely know the guest today and we're only going to learn so much in ten or fifteen minutes.

因此，你在采取任何行动之前，请记住，我们所说的内容只是通用信息，你应当寻求可信赖的专业人士（如财务规划师、会计师等）获取针对你个人的建议。

For that reason it's important that anything you hear today before you act on it, you remember that it's general and you do go seek a trusted professional for any advice you might want like a financial planner, an accountant or something like that.

由于临时变更计划，我们原本打算让史蒂夫现场到场，但他因特殊情况只能通过电话接入。

Due to some last minute changes of plans, we originally gonna get Steve in at a desk today, but he's had to call in on his phone mostly just due to the circumstances.

所以今天可能会偶尔出现音频质量不佳的问题，有些内容可能听不清楚。

So there may be the occasional audio quality issue today, something that might be hard to hear.

当然，对于在YouTube等平台收看的观众来说，我们也没有史蒂夫的视频画面。

And, obviously, we don't have any video for Steve for those of you who are tuning in on something like YouTube.

感谢大家的理解。

So thanks for your understanding there.

我们希望推动对话的是内容本身，而不是视频或音频的质量，但我们会继续尽力改进这些方面。

We're hoping that it's the content that carries the conversation and not the quality of the video or the audio, but we'll continue to do our best to improve that as we go.

但无论如何，我们非常高兴今天欢迎史蒂夫加入我们的播客。

But regardless, we're really excited to welcome Steve onto the podcast today.

史蒂夫，你最近怎么样？

How are you doing, Steve?

是的。

Yeah.

很好。

Good.

谢谢你们。

Thank you, guys.

非常感谢你们邀请我。

Thank you so much for having me.

我是你们播客的忠实粉丝，能上节目真的很兴奋。

Big fan of the podcast, so it's exciting to be on.

不。

No.

谢谢你来参加，兄弟。

Thanks for coming on, man.

我们非常感激你愿意来分享你的故事和一些个人细节，希望今天能充分回答你的问题。

Always appreciate when people are willing to come on and share their story and share some, you know, personal details and, you know, hope to answer your questions fully today.

希望我们能帮助你应对当前正在纠结的决定。

Hopefully, we can help you in the decision that you're kind of battling with at the moment.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我们先简单梳理一下你的基本情况，Steve。

Let's just run through a few of your details here, Steve.

你也可以在我们进行的过程中更新一下信息，因为你提交这份案例研究至少是几个月前了。

Maybe you can update us as we go along too because you sent this case study through at least a few months ago, think.

所以那些内容可能已经发生了变化。

So some of those things might have changed.

如果我们需要，我们非常乐意更新数据和最新情况。

We're more than happy to have the updated figures and updated situation if we need to.

所以当我逐项梳理时，请随时打断我，如果有什么变化请纠正我。

So as I kinda go through it, please feel free to jump in and and correct me if anything's changed.

你快三十岁了。

You're in your late twenties.

你目前有伴侣。

You are in a relationship.

从这份案例研究来看，你似乎计划在几年后将孩子纳入你的生活规划中。

From the case study, it looks like you're planning to factor kids into your situation in a few years' time or something like that.

在收入方面，你告诉我你是自由职业者，是一名体育教练，年收入大约在12万到13万美元之间，而你的伴侣年收入为10万美元。

On the income side of things, you're telling me that you're self employed and you're a sports coach and you earn roughly a 120 to 130,000 per year and your partner earns a 100,000 per year.

这是税前还是税后收入？

Is that before or after tax?

这两项都是税前收入。

These are both before tax.

税前。

Before tax.

好的。

Cool.

在支出方面，你们的家庭开销是五万到六万美元。

And on the spending side of things, you've got household spending of 50 to 60,000.

你们有一笔每年25,000美元的房贷。

You've got a mortgage which costs you 25,000 per year.

你们还列出了每年20,000美元的业务开支。

You've got business expenses which you've noted as 20,000 per year.

旅行开支为每年20,000美元，你说你非常重视这一点，因为你们有海外家人，但这并不是必需的。

Travel as $20,000 per year, which you said you value a lot as you have family overseas, but it's not a necessity.

你们每年投资50,000美元购买ETF，这相当可观，为此干得不错。

And you invest into ETFs in the range of $50,000 per year, which is pretty significant, so well done for that.

剩余的部分则存入一笔商业应急储蓄账户，主要是因为你是自由职业者。

And the remainder is kept in a businessemergency savings account just because of the fact that you're self employed.

显然，收入存在不稳定性，而且与此相关的额外开支和风险也存在。

There's obviously some lumpiness of income and some extra costs and risks associated with that.

从现金流和你能够储蓄并分配给投资的金额来看，整体月度情况相当不错。

It's a pretty good overall monthly picture in terms of your cash flow and how much you're able to save and allocate to investment.

看起来很不错。

That looks pretty good.

这些数据现在仍然基本准确吗？你认为有什么变化吗？

Is that still all roughly up to date or has anything changed there, would you say?

没有。

No.

听起来差不多就是这样。

That sounds about right.

考虑到我是自由职业者，工作时间有很大的灵活性和变动性。

I would say, given I'm self employed, there is a lot of flexibility and changing work hours.

而且收入显然会有较大波动。

And obviously, the income can be fairly variable.

所以这些数字仍然是估算值，我过去几年尽量将其平均化，因为这几年的收入相当稳定。

So there's still rough figures and I've sort of tried to even that out across the last couple of years, which have been pretty consistent.

是的

Yeah.

当然

Sure.

是的

Yeah.

我能想象有时候收入会很不稳定，这一点我确实能理解。

Can imagine it would be all over the place sometimes, so that's definitely something I can appreciate.

在资产和投资方面，我们有一套公寓，你提到它的价值在55万到57.5万之间。

On the assets and investment side, we've got an apartment that's worth you've noted it's between 550,000 and 575,000.

你觉得这个估价现在仍然准确吗？

Do you think that's still probably accurate?

是的

Yeah.

我的意思是，根据realestate.com的估值，目前大约在57万左右。

I mean, based off the sort of realestate.com valuations, it's roughly at sort of $5.70 at the moment.

我当初是以55万买的。

And I purchased for $5.50.

所以那里没什么增长，我也承认，一室一厅的房子不太可能有太大升值。

So there's not a lot of growth there, which I acknowledge with a one bed, one bath wasn't gonna be the case too much.

房产在我的财务规划中可能并不是一个主要因素，不是我想要达成目标的关键。

Property is not a probably a massive factor in my financial journey in terms of where I wanna get to.

它更多是作为一种安全保障。

It's more a security sort of side of things.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Sure.

我们还有20万美元的ETF，很不错。

We've also got ETFs of 200,000, which pretty good.

还有2万美元的加密货币。

And there's crypto also of 20,000.

至于与房产相关的债务部分，看起来有一笔34万美元的银行住房贷款。

And then on the debt side relating to your property, it looks like there's a home loan of 340,000, which is a bank home loan.

然后你这里还有另一个部分，即12万美元，这是通过维多利亚州购房基金提供的，这类似于一种‘帮助购房’的安排，他们拥有部分产权吗？

And then you've also got another aspect here, which is a 120,000, which is through the Victorian Homebuyer Fund, which is essentially like a is that like a help to own type setup where they own some of the equity?

没错。

Correct.

所以我回去重新核对了具体数字。

So I actually went back and did the exact figures.

所以最初贷款是36万美元，现在银行贷款已经降至约345万美元。

So it's the loan originally was $3.60, and it's now down to about $3.45 from the bank that is.

然后我通过维多利亚州购房基金（VHF）进行了购买。

And then I purchased through the VHF from the Victorian Homebuyer Fund.

所以确切的金额是13.5万美元，这是基于大约25%的计算，而政府显然可以提供这部分资金。

So, yeah, that exact figure was actually a 135,000, but that's based off a calculation of roughly 25%, which is what the government can obviously put up.

因此，这会根据该计划要求的新估值进行调整，以反映房产的最新价值。

So that would be with a new valuation, which you do through the the scheme, obviously adjust to updated property value.

是的

Yeah.

好的

Okay.

这很有趣，因为不同州有不同的类似计划。

So that's quite interesting because there is different schemes like that in different states.

我知道我们在西澳也有一个类似的计划。

I know we've got one here in WA that works in a similar way.

但我之前不知道的一点是，你在案例中提到的这笔贷款实际上是免息的。

But one thing I didn't know which you put down in your case study which I found was super interesting is that this loan is actually interest free.

所以，政府会资助房产的25%、15%或其他比例，然后你只需在一段时间内逐步偿还本金，而无需支付任何利息。

So essentially, the government will fund, say, 25% or 15% or something of the property and then you slowly pay them back over time and not have to pay interest at all on that money.

对吗？

Is that correct?

没错。

That's correct.

所以这是无息的。

So it's interest free.

还款方式也是我今天想向你们提出的问题，想听听你们的看法。

The repayments and that's sort of part of my question to you guys today and and to get your thoughts on it.

我有两个选择：要么找人评估并一次性还清全部金额，要么分批还款，每次至少还5%。

I've got an option of either you go and get a valuation and pay off the entire amount or you can do them in installments of a minimum of 5%.

所以在这段时间内，你最多可以分五期还款。

So the maximum amount of repayments you can do is actually five repayments over that time.

好的。

Okay.

当你提到再融资时，具体是什么意思？

So when you say you refinance it, what does that mean exactly?

你是必须通过向另一家银行再融资或用现金一次性还清吗？

You have to pay them out in full by refinancing to another bank or in cash?

这是你的一个选择吗？

Is that one of your options?

不是。

No.

不是再融资。

Not refinance.

所以我会去对房产进行估值，然后根据这个估值，我需要偿还政府持有的25%份额。

So I go and get a valuation for the property and then based on that valuation, I have to pay back the 25 percent that the government holds.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

当然。

Sure.

是的。

Yep.

但这笔款项可以一次性支付，直接根据当前估值偿还25%。

But that could be in one lump sum and just pay back the 25% based on that current valuation.

或者我可以选择一次性付款。

Or it could be I could choose to do it in lump payments.

政府总是持有25%吗？还是说是一个固定金额？

Does the government always hold 25 or is it like a fixed dollar amount?

这是一个百分比金额。

It's a percentage amount.

所以在这个案例中，对我来说刚好低于25%。

So in this case, it's just under 25% for me.

对的。

Right.

所以不同于银行，这并不是抵押品。

So unlike a bank, it's not like security.

而是他们实际上拥有了房屋的产权。

It's like they actually got the equity in the home.

没错。

Correct.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

当然。

Sure.

哦，这挺有意思的。

Oh, so that's interesting.

所以，随着房价上涨，尽管没有利息，你仍需偿还政府更多的金额。

So as the home price goes up, even though it's interest free, you have a larger amount, you have to pay back the government basically.

正确。

Correct.

正确。

Correct.

从我的角度来看，当我购房时，作为自由职业者，当时贷款确实有点困难。

And I mean, the benefit from my point of view when I was purchasing, obviously, as a self employed person, it was a little bit more difficult getting loans at the time.

而且显然，除了这个免息金额之外，我也不需要支付贷款保险费或印花税。

And then obviously, that interest free amount additionally to that, I didn't have to pay LMI or stamp duty as well.

所以这些前期节省确实带来了好处。

So there's the benefits of those upfront savings.

是的。

Yep.

这大概就引出了你案例研究的核心，也是我们今天要讨论的内容。

So that probably brings us to the crux of your case study and what we're going to talk about today.

你能不能简单地给我们讲一下你的情况？详细一点也可以。

So do you want to just run us through briefly your situation or in detail would be good too.

还有你正在权衡的具体选择、你考虑的不同方案，以及你希望我们给出哪些具体的建议。

And exactly what you're kind of tossing up between and the different options that you're considering and what you'd like our thoughts on exactly.

当然可以。

Absolutely.

我伴侣几个月前刚搬进这套房产。

I've my partners recently moved into the property a few months ago.

所以我们现在在这里。

So we're currently here.

我大约两年前半购买了这套房子，我们计划在接下来的三到四年里要孩子。

I purchased it about two and a half years ago, and we are planning to have kids, I would say, in the next three or four years.

就像我提到的，这是一室一厅。

And like I mentioned, it's a one bed, one bath.

我很喜欢这套房子，也喜欢这个地段，它在生活方式上非常棒。

I love the property, and I've loved the location, and it's been fantastic for lifestyle.

但考虑到要孩子这件事，我知道我们需要一个更大的空间。

But with that in mind, I know when it comes to to having kids, we'll need a bigger pace.

自然地，这正是下一步的升级，我需要搬进一个更大一点的房子。

And naturally, it's, yeah, it's sort of that next progression where I'll need to move into something a bit bit bit bigger.

所以这就是我的情况，想听听你们的意见，关于我该如何偿还这笔政府款项，因为额外的信息是，我在还清政府那部分款项之前，不能把名字加到任何其他房产上。

So sort of my situation and to get your thoughts on how I would repay that government amount because I guess the added information there is I actually can't put my name on any other property until I've paid off that government portion as well.

所以对我来说，无论是租房还是买房，我都必须先还清那笔未付的25%款项。

So for me to go and rent or buy, I have to pay off that outstanding 25% amount.

是的

Yeah.

所以这是否让你有一种几乎被束缚的微妙感觉？

So is it is it an element where you kind of it's this like slight feeling of nearly feeling trapped.

对吧？

Right?

因为显然，如果你不能立即还清这笔钱，你就只能在继续留在那里和卖掉它之间做选择。

Because you can obviously, you know, if you can't pay that off straight away, you're basically caught between staying there or selling it essentially.

对吧？

Right?

没错。

Correct.

没错。

Correct.

正是如此。

That's exactly it.

是的

Yep.

对

Yeah.

而这正好与ETF相关，因为你确实有一大堆ETF可以解决你的问题。

And this this is then ties into the ETFs because you've obviously got this pile of ETFs over here that can solve your problem.

但当你一直辛苦积累并投资这些ETF时，突然把它们全部清空，感觉真的很糟糕。

But that feels really rough to go and like, kind of empty that out when you've been like, saving that up over time and investing.

对吧？

Right?

没错。

Exactly.

对。

Right.

是的

Yeah.

就我的目标和未来的规划而言，ETF 是一个重要的部分。

Like in the context of sort of my goals and what I have planned for the future, the ETFs is a big part.

我对房地产不太感兴趣。

I'm not huge on property.

它从未在我的计划中占据重要地位。

It's never been a massive part of my plans.

这套房产的购买更多是出于生活方式的考虑，而我的ETF投资组合才是真正用来增值、实现财务独立的。

This property was bought probably more with lifestyle in mind, and then I've had that ETF portfolio to really grow and try and get some more financially dependent.

是的。

Yeah.

如果我问一个问题，如果你现在卖掉房产，你说它的价值从550万涨到了570万，涨了2万美元。

If I could ask a question, if you sold your property now, you said that the value of it's gone up by $20,000, $5.50 to $5.70.

你当然支付了一些过户费或其他相关费用。

You obviously paid some conveyances or things like that.

如果你现在卖掉，相比买入时，你实际赚了多少？

Like what are you what are you down if you sold it now compared to when you bought it?

你亏本了吗？

Are you down at all?

还是基本持平？

Or is it pretty is it pretty breakeven?

因为我想你购买这个房产时，在维多利亚州也没交印花税，对吧？

Because you I assume you didn't pay stamp duty in Victoria for that scheme too.

对吧？

Right?

是的，没错。

Yeah, correct.

还有很多类似的节省，比如我不用支付贷款保险费或印花税。

There were a lot of savings like that where I didn't have to pay LMI or or stamp duty.

所以即使房价涨到大约570万，我卖了的话，可能还是基本持平，甚至可能还赚了一点。

So I would, yeah, I would come out probably breakeven even with the the jump in price if it was sold for that sort of $5.70 mark, maybe even making a little bit.

对。

Yep.

有没有可能将这笔贷款转到另一家银行，由新银行偿还维多利亚州政府的股权份额，然后从另一家银行获得新的80%贷款？

Is there absolutely no way that you can refinance this loan to a different bank and then that basically pays out the Victorian government from their equity share and get a new 80% loan from a different bank?

这个特定的计划中，这不可能实现吗？

Is that not possible with this particular scheme?

因为你现在的贷款价值比大约是80%，大多数银行都会乐意接受。

Because you're at roughly 80% LVR now, which most banks would be happy to take on.

是的。

Yeah.

据我了解，这个计划下，你是可以在这种情况下进行转贷的。

So my understanding is this scheme, you you can refinance in that context.

我并没有深入研究过，但毫无疑问，这在未来是一个可行的选择。

It's not something I've explored the hate, but that is definitely, yeah, an option down the track.

因为这可能是我会立即考虑的事情，因为这样你就能保持你的ETF不受影响。

Because that's probably something I'd look at immediately though because then that lets you keep your ETFs untouched.

它还能让你不必每月将储蓄用于偿还这笔贷款，因为如果你能在接下来六个月左右，将贷款转为另一家银行的80%贷款。

It also lets you not have to put your monthly savings towards that loan because if you could refinance basically in the next six months or so to an 80% loan with another bank.

即使我偿还了一点，再融资的金额仍然会超过80%的贷款比例，因为最初这笔贷款是我从政府和银行共同借的。

The refinancing amount I have at even basically what I paid down a little bit would still leave it over the 80% though borrowing because the loan initially was I was borrowing effectively between the government and the bank.

我当时借了房价的90%。

I was borrowing 90% of the price.

所以我现在仍然是。

So I'm still yeah.

由于房价上涨，我可能快达到80%了，但可能还没到。

With the jump in property price, I'd be close to the 80, but I probably wouldn't be there yet.

但可能只差几万澳元而已。

It would probably only be, like a couple of tens of thousands off though.

对吧？

Right?

因为总债务大约是460万。

Because the the total debt's like $4.60.

是的。

Yeah.

所以你只需要贷款金额大约在440万左右，就能达到80%的贷款价值比，这并不算多。

So you'd only need the loan to be maybe $4.40 or something for it to be 80% LBR, which is not very much.

你很可能在接下来的六个月内就把贷款还掉一部分，然后转到另一家银行再融资。

You could probably have that paid down within like the next six months and refinance to another bank.

没错。

Correct.

是的。

Yeah.

据我所知，通过这个计划，我确实有机会以这种方式进行再融资。

That is definitely an opportunity as far as I'm aware through this scheme that I could refinance that way.

对的。

Yep.

因为对我来说，这比卖出ETF更有吸引力。

Because because that to me, that's more for that's more appealing than selling ETFs.

但另一方面，我也想问问你，你打算什么时候搬出这里，换一个更大的地方？

But on the other hand, I'd also wanna know from you how soon do you wanna move out of this place and into a bigger place?

还是你打算等到有孩子计划时再考虑搬出去？

Or are you happy to wait until you've got kids on the cards and kids coming to to plan for?

因为这个免息贷款简直是个巨大的免费福利。

Because having this interest free loan is like a huge free kick, really.

真的非常方便。

Like, it's very, very handy.

所以我会倾向于尽可能长时间地保留这笔免息贷款。

So I'll I'll be tempted to try and string along that interest free loan for as long as possible.

是的。

Yeah.

我本来想说，我会尽可能拖到最后一刻。

I was gonna say I'd I'd wait as late as I could.

是的。

Yeah.

大概会拖到我们准备要孩子的时候。

Probably to the point where we're having kids.

我觉得我们现在很喜欢这里，这里的生活方式非常棒。

I think we love it here at the moment, and it's been fantastic for that lifestyle.

所以可能我还是会提前做好所有这些准备。

So it would probably still be I'm definitely preempting all of these things.

这大概就是我的性格。

And that's sort of the way I am.

我更喜欢提前规划这些事情，确保像海登说的那样，不会陷入房产中而失去选择余地。

I prefer to plan for these things and just make sure, like Hayden was saying, I'm not sort of that feeling of stuck in the property and don't have options.

在我看来，我们可能还需要两三年才会搬走。

It would probably be still two or three years away until we'd have to move in my view.

是的。

Yeah.

在你的案例中，我觉得你提到过你也对租金投资持开放态度。

And then in your case study, I think you wrote that you're quite open to rent vesting as well.

所以另一个想法可能是，你干脆保持贷款不变，不进行再融资，只支付最低还款额，一直住在那里，直到你需要更大的房子，然后把现在的房子转为投资物业，再租一套更适合你家规模的房子。

So I guess one another idea would be that you potentially just leave the loan as is and you don't refinance and you keep paying the minimum and you stay there until you need a bigger place and then that place just becomes an investment property and then you rent a more suitable size home for yourself if that would work.

这样你就可以保留ETF和房产，你之前说过你对这套房产很有感情，也不介意把它作为长期出租物业。

Because then that lets you keep the ETFs, keep the property which you said you're quite attached to, you love the property and you wouldn't mind keeping it as a long term rental.

同时也能让你在有了孩子之后，拥有一个真正适合家庭居住的大房子。

Then also lets you have the a proper size family home for yourself when you have kids and that.

但与此相关的一个问题是，大多数人并不喜欢在有孩子的情况下租房。

But I suppose a related question to that is most people don't like the idea of renting when they have kids.

你对此怎么看？

How do you feel about that?

我完全能接受这种做法。

I'm more than comfortable with it.

在我看来，这正是我想要做的。

In my view, that's that's what I would like to do.

我希望最终能租房住，同时保留这套房产。

I'd like to end up rent resting and and hold on to this property.

不过有一点需要补充的是，要把我的名字加到这个租赁合同上。

The only sort of side note to that again is to put my name on that rental.

我本需要还清或再融资，把政府的那笔款项付掉，那样我就没法去租房了。

I would have had to pay off or refinance and have that government amount paid off so I couldn't go and rent.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

所以你可以再延续个三年左右，享受无息贷款，尽可能多地投资或积累资产；如果你打算租房，下一个房子就不需要首付了。

So you could again string that along for the next, like, say three years or something and enjoy the interest free loan, keep investing as much as possible or or building it You wouldn't need a deposit for the next place if you're gonna be renting.

这样你可以最大化投资，不必太担心还清购房贷款，因为三年期满后你可以再融资，把期限尽可能拉长，然后租一套更合适的家庭住宅，这样理解对吗？

That would let you max out investments, not worry too much about paying off the home buyer loan because then you could just refinance at the end of the three year period because then you've strung it along for as long as you could and then you can start renting a more suitable family home, if that makes sense.

海登，你是不是也和我有同样的看法？

Hayden, do you have any do you see it in a similar way to me?

我明白，我能想象。

Are you I I can imagine.

我知道你是个典型的优化型思维的人，所以我猜你也会尽可能长时间地延续这个免息贷款。

I know you're kind of an optimizer brain type person, so I'm imagining that you would try and string along that interest free loan for as long as possible as well.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得买房住真的很有趣，因为你同时在做生活方式和资本决策，这让事情变得特别复杂，你知道吗？比如，你住在哪里从生活方式角度看很重要，但你还得问自己：这是不是让我资金回报最大的地方？

I mean, I find buying a place to live in is really interesting because you're making lifestyle and capital decisions at the same time, and they make them really complicated, you know, because, you know, like, can like where you live from a lifestyle perspective, but then you got to ask yourself, is this the best place to get a return on my money?

但在我看来，政府的这个计划非常独特，因为我的理解是，你只需先付5万美元左右，也就是10%的首付。

But the government scheme makes it really unique, in my view, because, you know, the way I think about it is you put $50,000 down, right, roughly to the 10%.

是的，没错。

Yeah, correct.

对。

Yep.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，如果你把这5万美元投入指数基金，假设指数基金年均增长12%左右，这是一个非常理想的结果，那么5万美元每年的收益大约就是6000美元。

So it's like, if you put that $50,000 in ETF, so let's assume that ETFs grow something like, you know, 12% per annum, something crazy, like a really good outcome, you know, 12% per annum on 50,000 is going to be about $6,000 a year, right.

而这显然是税前的数字，但关键在于，你只投入了5万美元，就实质上持有了一个55万美元的资产——如果考虑到你只拥有四分之三的产权，那就是一个41.2万美元的资产，这才是正确的思考方式。

And, know, that's obviously before tax, but you know, the fact that you've only had to put $50,000 in to essentially hold on to a, know, $550,000 asset, or if I correct it for the fact that you only own three quarters of it, a $412,000 asset is the right way of thinking about it.

对吧？

Right?

因为那正好是四分之三。

Because that's like three quarters of it.

是的。

Yep.

大概就是这个水平。

Something ballpark like that.

这意味着，为了获得那6000美元的ETF收益，你只需要期望房产每年上涨约1%，除非我算错了。

That means that for that $6,000 ETF increase, you only really have to hope that your property goes up as far as I can tell by about 1% a year unless I've cooked that math.

即使像大城市里那些糟糕的一居室公寓，房产增长表现也不怎么样。

And even like one bedroom apartments in major cities as awful as they are for property growth.

你知道，你觉得一套房子从57万涨到58.5万，三年内实现的可能性有多大？如果你认为市场有上涨趋势，这个要求现在其实并不离谱。当然，我得说明，市场长时间横盘甚至下跌的情况也存在，但在我看来，把资金放在这个地方似乎并不算糟糕的选择。

It's like, you know, what are the odds that that's going to go from five seventy to five eighty five in three years, you know, and probably assuming you know, assuming you think there's forward movement in the market, you know, that's not an absurd ask right now, don't want to I want point out obviously, like markets go flat for a long time markets go down, but it just doesn't seem to me like it's a bad place to keep your capital.

这对我来说，我不是说它很好，但至少看起来并不是一个糟糕的资本存放地。

That would be my my like, not saying it's good, but it definitely doesn't seem like a terrible place to keep the capital.

所以，对于未来几年你正在做的事情来说，这似乎是一个非常安全的选择。

So it seems like a very safe place to kind of just do what you're doing for the next few years.

你把很多钱放在了ETF里，你只需要投入5万美元，这在你的整体财富中只占很小一部分。

You have a lot of money in ETFs where you want it, you've got that $50 down, it's a small portion of your wealth in the grand scheme of things.

而且，一旦你开始需要做出变动，听起来你可能还是想直接卖掉它，因为你不想去还那笔该死的贷款。

And yeah, like once you start needing to make moves, it sounds like you might just want to sell it anyway, because you don't want to go and pay off that darn loan.

所以在这种情况下，你最终会被迫把它卖出去。

So you're going to get forced to sell it just under those circumstances.

然后你可以考虑下一步该做什么，比如是否在别处申请更大的贷款，或者干脆先租一段时间。

And then you can go figure out what you want to do, whether you want to go put down a larger loan somewhere else, or whether you want to just rent for a while.

所以，这是我最初的看法：当我仔细想想时，这并不觉得被束缚住了，因为它实际上似乎是一个风险很低的资本配置方式。

So that's at least my initial take on it is like, it doesn't feel as trapped to me as I think through it, because it actually just seems like a pretty low risk place to put capital.

确实，如果我能再融资，我不觉得被束缚住了，我同意这个观点；但如果不具备再融资条件，我会觉得被束缚了，那时我得规划其他选择，比如在未来几年动用部分ETF资金或储蓄，而不是继续投资。

Definitely, it doesn't feel trapped if I can refinance, I agree with that point of view, it feels trapped in the sense where I was sort of planning my options if I'm not able to refinance and then how to navigate whether it's using some of the ETF amounts or the savings over the next couple of years and not investing.

那就是我当时感觉有点卡住的地方，不知该如何推进。

That was the bit where, yeah, I felt a little bit stuck at times on how to go about it.

但如果我理解得没错的话，只有当你打算在持有这套房产的同时再买另一处房产时，你才会感到受限，对吧？

But if I'm only if I'm understanding this right, you're only stuck if you intend to try and buy something, another property whilst you hold that, right?

或者租房也一样。

Or or rent as well.

明白了。

Got it.

好的。

Okay.

当然。

Sure.

之前我忽略了这一点。

That's that's the part that escaped my mind before.

对吧？

Right?

所以你确实感到被困住了，意思是你根本无法离开，他们真的不能离开那个地方，直到事情解决。

So you do feel trapped there in the sense that you can't even, you know, leave you are they really can't leave that place until that's sorted.

是的。

Yeah.

我哪儿都签不了名。

I got I can't put my name anywhere.

是的。

Yeah.

但我猜，当你算一笔账的时候，这仅仅是为了接下来六个月，只是为了避免卖出ETF。

But I suppose you like, when you do the math on that, it's only for, like, maybe the next six months, and that's only to avoid selling ETFs.

所以这只是一个非常短期的锁定状态。

So it's like a very short term locked position.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Absolutely.

如果我能重新融资，我同意这一点。

I'd agree with that if, yeah, if I can refinance then.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

That's yeah.

如果我能重新融资的话。

That's if I can refinance.

那么，是的，短期内无法投资会带来一些痛苦。

Then then, yeah, that it sort of bit of short term pain on not being able to invest.

我始终很清醒，尤其是今年，市场行情如此，我可能错失了一些机会。

I'm always conscious, especially this year with the way the markets are potentially missing out on some opportunities as well.

我已经形成了一种稳定的投资习惯，我很喜欢这样。

I've got into a sort of a steady routine with investing, which I like.

正如我所说，长期来看，ETF 是我的主要目标，它能让我获得更多灵活性，并减少一些工作时间，因为我的工作时间很不稳定。

And like I said, the ETFs are sort of that main goal for me long term to be able to provide some more flexibility and cut some work hours as well because my work's quite it varies a lot.

我认为，我的财务自由之旅的一部分，就是腾出更多时间，尤其是当孩子出生后，能有更多时间待在家里，工作也更稳定一些。

And I think part of my FI journey is to actually free up some of that time, particularly when kids are there as well, be able to have some more time at home and some more consistency with the work.

我本来想说，这其实非常有趣。

I was gonna say, it's quite fascinating, really.

因为当你开始计划要孩子时，家庭收入往往会下降，支出却会上升，同时你也会更希望减少工作。

Because when you get to the point where there is kids on the cards, then income in the household tends to go down, expenses in the household tends to go up, and then you also have a desire to work less.

那位工作较多的伴侣也希望能减少工作时间，多陪孩子。

The partner that might be working more wants to work less to be at home, spend time with the kids as well.

所以这是一种有趣的现象：从财务角度看并不理想，但对生活方式来说却非常好。

So it's this interesting dynamic where it's like it's pretty sub optimal for finances, but it's great for lifestyle.

对吧？

Right?

所以你同时面临这些相互冲突的欲望，因为当你处于这种状态时，你仍然希望继续增长你的ETF，但同时也想待在家里。

So you have all these competing desires at the same time because you tend to wanna because when you're in that position, you still wanna be able to grow your ETFs, but you also wanna be home at the same time.

因此，你在这两者之间拉扯：一边是赚更多钱并进行投资，另一边是待在家里，享受家庭生活。

So you're kind of this this push pull between making more money and being able to invest between being home and enjoying the lifestyle like the family sort of situation.

所以这里存在着一种有趣的动态。

So it's this interesting dynamic that will be at play there.

这正是问题所在。

That's exactly what it is.

而我也一直犹豫是否要动用ETF，因为这正是我计划的一部分，试图腾出一些时间。

And that's where I was reluctant to have to sort of eat into the ETFs as well because that's part of the the plan there to try and free up a little bit of the the time.

但，是的，这正是我正在挣扎的地方。

But, yeah, that is sort of where I'm battling.

关于ETF，我也曾遇到过类似的情况。

Just on the ETFs too, like, I've had probably run into similar types of situations before.

而且，我觉得有两件事一直对我有帮助。

And, you know, I think two things that have always helped me.

一种方法是做一点心理记账，比如从今天起，你所有新买入的ETF都可以视为你的‘家庭基金’的一部分，这样会让你更安心，因为你已积累的资产得到了保护，而这部分新资金则被专门用于其他用途。

One is like, you can do a bit of mental accounting in terms of, you know, from today, all your new ETFs are kind of part of your like, your home fund in a way, and becomes a lot more comfortable to kind of know that your portfolio you've built so far is protected and this other stuff has earmarked for different usage.

当然，现实中这些钱本质上是一样的。

Obviously, in reality, it's just the same money.

但有时候这种心理暗示能帮助我逐步接受：如果六个月或一年后真的需要卖出一些投资，我会觉得这本来就是计划的一部分。

But sometimes that helps me kind of build up to it if in like six months or a year, do need to sell out stuff I've invested in because I'm like that was always the plan.

另一个有帮助的点是，当你需要资金时，市场往往正处于低谷。

The other thing that's helpful too is sometimes when you need capital, you know, markets are down and stuff.

我发现，有时候你可能会改变投资目标，这在一定程度上能缓解压力——比如我曾遇到过，需要一笔钱时，恰好发现某项投资涨了10%。

And I find that can nearly be or sometimes you change what you want to invest in, which can help to some extent to like I've I've known sometimes where I've needed to get a you know, a pile of money for something, you know, there's something I invested in that just happened to have gone up 10%.

但后来它又跌回了10%。

And now it's back down 10%.

这时我会觉得现在卖出反而更好，因为我不再觉得错过了什么过山车式的行情；更可能的情况是，我对某项投资失去了信心——我过去持有大量高收益ETF，或者过度集中在纳斯达克等高风险标的上。

And I'm like, well, that's it feels better to sell it out now, because I don't feel like I'm missing out on the roller coaster, or more probably a more likely one as if I just kind of lose faith in something like I used to own a lot more kind of high yield ETFs, or a lot more heavy on like the NASDAQ, of, you know, hardcore.

经过几年投资后，我逐渐意识到，我最终还是会卖出这些资产，然后重新配置。

And after a while of investing in that for a couple years, it got to a point where I was like, I probably gonna sell this stuff anyway, and reinvest it.

而实际上，处理出售资产所带来的税务问题才是主要的痛苦所在。

And it's like, well, most of the pain of that is dealing with the taxes of selling stuff.

如果那时你已经拥有房产，或者有其他需要处理的事情，那感觉就没那么糟了。

And at that point, if I've already got a property or something I want to deal with or your situation, it's like, oh, it's not too bad.

所以我认为，在看待ETF投资组合的细微差别时，至少存在一些灵活的空间。

So I think there's at least some nice like flex with how you think about the nuance of that ETF portfolio as well.

确实如此。

Definitely.

对。

Yep.

你之前说过，即使有了孩子，你对租房也感到非常安心。

Have you I mean, you said before that you're very comfortable with the idea of renting even when you have kids.

你和伴侣谈过这个想法吗？他们和你一样认同这个观点吗？

Have you spoken to your partner about that And are they as on board as you are with that idea?

因为夫妻双方的看法可能会不一样，你知道的？

Because it could be different between the spouses, you know?

没有。

No.

这是个好问题。

It's a good question.

是的。

Yeah.

她是的。

She is yeah.

她也很自在。

She is as comfortable.

就她的财务历程而言，我们在这方面可能有点不同。

In terms of sort of her financial journey, that's where we're probably a little bit different.

我可能更偏向于储蓄和规划。

I'm probably more the saver and planner.

她并不是一个纯粹的挥霍者，但过去几个月我们同居以来，由于财务背景不同，花了一些时间才让我们的目标达成一致。

And not that she's just an out and out spender, but we come now living together over the last few months from probably different financial backgrounds where it's just taken a bit of time to align those goals.