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Banklessation，我是Nikhil。
Banklessation, I am with Nikhil.
他是Circle的首席产品和技术官。
He is the chief product and technology officer over at Circle.
从Circle传来一个重大消息。
And coming out of Circle, we've got a pretty big announcement.
Nikhil，今天就是那个日子。
Nikhil, today is the day.
告诉我今天是什么日子。
Tell me about what day this is.
今天是我们发布的日子。
Today is the day of our launch.
我们正在推出Arc主网。
We're launching Arc Mainnet.
我们已经为此努力了好几年。
We've been working on it for years.
我们今天对这次发布感到非常自豪。
We're very proud of the launch today.
所以这是我们漫长旅程的第一天。
So it's the first day of a very long journey for us.
所以能来到这里，我们非常兴奋。
So very excited to be here.
那么，恭喜你们主网上线。
Well, congratulations on Mainnet Day.
那总是非常特别的一天。
That's always a very special day.
跟我聊聊，是什么让Arc的Arc如此独特？
Talk to me about what make Arc's Arc unique.
比如，它有哪些特别之处？
Like, what are the special properties?
Arc带来了哪些独特的特性？
What are the unique properties that Arc is bringing to the table?
我觉得，嗯，退一步讲，先聊聊Circle会比较好。
I think, like, I think it's useful to step back and, like, talk about Circle a little bit.
Circle最初是稳定币发行方，现在它发行的稳定币是最大的受监管稳定币。
Like, Circle started off as stablecoin issuer and built what is now the largest regulated stablecoin.
Arc延续了这个理念，就是搭建受监管的金融基础设施，连接传统金融机构和所有这些新创新，把这个理念进一步推进，落地到本地，落地到L1层。
Arc is taking that idea of like building regulated financial infrastructure that bridges like what is traditional financial institutions and all this new innovation, and takes that idea forward and brings it to the local, brings it to an L1 layer.
所以，Arc的核心功能可能大家已经听说过一些了。
So, the core features of Arc are things that people may have heard about already.
比如，我们有一个叫支付终结性的功能，它能让交易一旦结算就真正成为最终状态。
Like this is, we have something called payment finality, which allows for transactions to be truly final once they are settled.
结算时间只有半秒，这能最大程度降低风险，配合支付终结性，还能让你在网络上进行快速交易。
Settlement time is half a second, which allows for minimizing risk along with the payment finality and like allowing you to do like rapid transactions on the network.
手续费是用稳定币支付的，先从USDC开始。
Gas is in stablecoins starting with USDC.
所以，你不需要持有网络的原生代币。
So, you don't have to hold a native network token.
对于加密货币用户来说，这可能只是个小功能。
While for crypto users, this may feel like a small feature.
但对于那些进行交易、持有国库资产、交易RWA的公司来说，这是一个很大的障碍，因为他们不知道如何处理原生网络代币这类东西。
For companies that are transacting, that are holding treasuries, that are transacting in RWAs, this a very significant hurdle to cross because they don't know how to account for things like native network tokens.
所以他们不仅要持有原生网络代币的库存，还不知道怎么把这些代币记在账上。
And so, not only do they have to like hold inventory of native network tokens, but they also don't know how to count those native network tokens on their books.
所以这真的很重要。
So, that's a pretty big deal.
我们还有其他一些即将推出的功能，这些功能对区块链来说非常独特，也体现了我们全栈的特性。
We have other things that are launching that are like really unique for a blockchain that sort of speak to our full stack nature.
我们有Arc Studio，你可以通过它和AI对话，部署自定义合约，我们认为未来所有的金融安排都会这样进行。
We have Arc Studio, which allows you to sort of talk to an AI and deploy a custom contract, which is how we think like all financial arrangements in the future will happen.
我们有Arc kits，可以让你在Arc之上构建自定义地图。
We have Arc kits, which allow you to build like custom maps on top of Arc.
所以，我们不只是把它当作一次网络发布，而是当作一个完整的堆栈来对待。
So, we've not treated this as just a network launch, but we've treated it as a full stack.
比如说，你今天想开发一个金融应用。
Like, hey, you wanna build a financial application today.
你该怎么开始呢？
How do you get started?
你需要考虑哪些参数？
What are all the parameters you need?
从最底层的网络层，一直到最顶层的应用层。
All the way down from like the network layer, all the way to the top being the application layer.
这就是我们的独特之处。
So that's what's unique about us.
我们也很期待把它正式上线。
I mean and we're very excited to get it up.
我确实想深入聊聊这个技术栈，讲讲各个组成部分。
I do want to zoom in and expand that tech stack and talk about the different components.
但如果把技术栈简化一下，总结成一句话，你会怎么用一句话来概括Arc Chain？
But if we were to collapse the tech stack and really summit everything, how would you meme memeify Arc chain?
所以，你知道，比特币是硬通货。
So, you know, Bitcoin is hard money.
以太坊的北极星是去中心化和无许可。
You know, Ethereum's North Star is, like, decentralization, permissionlessness.
Solana就是区块链上的纳斯达克。
Solana is Nasdaq on the blockchain.
那Arc的梗是什么？
What what's the meme for Arc?
你们的北极星是什么？
What is your guys' North Star?
你们怎么把正在做的事情浓缩成一个简单的概念？
How would you collapse everything you guys are doing into a simple idea?
我们一直叫它经济操作系统。
I mean, we've called it economic OS.
说到经济操作系统，我们想到的是，比如我成长在手机刚出现的年代。
And when we say economic OS, we think about things that went like I mean, I grew up when phones came about.
手机出现的时候，比如安卓在谷歌诞生的时候，我就在那里。
And when phones came about, like when Android came about at Google, I was there.
那时候市场上已经有六七个操作系统了。
And there were six plus operating systems in the market at that time.
所以，当时并不清楚市场还需要一个新的操作系统。
So, it wasn't clear you needed another OS in the market.
谷歌的独特之处在于，它说我们要为芯片制造商解决一个问题。
And what Google did uniquely was it said like, we have a problem that we have to solve for chip makers.
我们要为手机制造商解决一个问题。
There's a problem that we have to solve for handset makers.
我们要为开发者解决一个问题，还要为用户解决一个问题。
We have to solve a problem for developers and we have to solve a problem for users.
如果我们能一起解决所有这些问题，我们就会有一个非常成功的操作系统。
And if we solve all of those problems together, we will have a very successful operating system.
而以前的其他操作系统，往往只瞄准市场的一小块，只为那一小块市场解决问题。
When other operating systems in the past had taken like a sliver of the market and solved the problems for that sliver of the market.
所以，当我们考虑Arc，考虑构建一个经济操作系统时，我们想的是解决整个链条上的问题。
So, when we think about Arc and we think about building an economic OS, we're thinking about solving the full stack of problems.
我想解决应用层面的问题。
I wanna solve application level problems.
比如，签署这笔交易，或者签署多笔交易，甚至简单到从一个钱包发送USDC到另一个钱包，这些都不应该让用户去操心。
So, problems like sign this transaction or sign multiple transactions to something as simple as sending USDC from one wallet to the other should not be a thing that users have to deal with.
用户不应该去考虑像gas费这样的东西。
Users should not have to think about things like gas.
gas费是什么？
Like, what is gas?
这是一个非常复杂的概念。
It's a very complicated concept.
工程师懂，加密货币用户也懂。
Engineers understand it, crypto users understand it.
但如果你相信今天手机上的50亿用户将来会使用这个金融基础设施，那我觉得我们没法跟他们解释清楚gas费。
But like, if you believe 5,000,000,000 users who are on phones today are going to be using this financial infrastructure, then I don't think we can explain gas to them.
我们需要能够向他们解释本地货币。
We need to be able to explain local money to them.
所以，今天在Arc上推出了大约16种稳定币。
So, we have 16 ish stablecoins launching on Arc today.
我们希望确保用户能够使用他们完全理解的货币来与区块链基础设施互动。
And we wanna make sure that like users are able to interact with like the blockchain infrastructure using the currencies that they fully understand.
他们不必使用区块。
They don't have to use block.
他们不必使用比特币、以太坊或任何其他链。
They don't have to use Bitcoin or Ethereum or any other chain for that matter.
所以，把它看作经济操作系统，这更像是一个实际的概念。
So, think it is like economic OS, like it's less of a meme.
我知道这比一个梗要更技术性一些。
I know it's a little more nerdy than what a meme could be.
也许将来会出现一个梗来概括经济操作系统是什么。
Maybe a meme will emerge that'll like sort of sum up what an economic OS could be.
不过，是的，我的意思是，这才第一天，所以我非常希望互联网能带来惊喜。
But, yeah, I mean, like, it's only day one, so I I'm very hopeful, like, that the Internet will deliver.
我们先做点功课，了解一下Arc。
Let's do just a little bit of the homework that we need to do to understand Arc.
Arc有哪些技术特性，能让那些硬核加密爱好者打开引擎盖，把它和我们熟悉的框架——比如以太坊——进行比较？
What are the the technical properties that, like, crypto natives, the the hardcore crypto natives that want to, like, pop open the hood and compare Arc to our frame of reference, which is like Ethereum, for example.
Arc有一个验证者集合。
So Arc has a validator set.
验证者集合中有一些部分是经过许可的。
There's some parts of the validator set that are permissioned.
也许你可以谈谈协议的基础，以及它如何偏离标准。
Maybe you can talk about just, like, the basics of the protocol and how that like diverges from what the standard is.
验证者集合是经过许可的，如果需要的话，我们可以深入探讨为什么是许可制的。
So the validator set is permissioned and we can get into why it is permissioned if we have to.
但合约部署是不需要许可的。
But the deployment of contracts is not permissioned.
就是说，任何人都可以来部署。
Like, so anybody can come deploy.
不需要我们提供开发者密钥。
You don't need a developer key from us.
也不需要注册Circle账号。
You don't need, like, you don't need sign up with Circle.
所以从这个角度来说，部署是完全无许可的。
So in that way, it is very much permissionless deployment.
我们不控制你交互哪些合约。
We don't control like what contracts you interact with.
我们不控制你交互哪些链。
We don't control what chains you interact with.
这真的是无许可的基础设施。
Like it is truly permissionless infrastructure.
验证者集合是有许可的，因为除了核心的互联网加密流量，或者我们想吸引的新类型流量，那些用户想知道验证者是谁。
It is a permission validator set because for the kind of traffic that we're hoping to get in addition to like core internet crypto traffic or the new kind of traffic that we wanna get, those users wanna know who the validators are.
他们现在不能依赖未知的验证者。
They cannot rely on unknown validators today.
我们确实相信，我们正处于让机构资金上链的早期阶段。
And we do believe like we are at the early stages of getting this institutional traffic onto the chain.
所以这就是为什么我们有一个许可验证者集，这样更容易吸引那些资金。
And so that's why we have a permission validator set and like, getting that traffic easier.
那么，回到刚才的问题，从技术上讲，这条链还有什么独特之处？
So, going back to the questions of like, what else is unique about the chain technically?
我们宣布将采用后量子签名。
We announced that we're going to be doing post quantum signatures.
它应该很快就能推出测试版。
It should launch in beta very soon.
这将支持后量子签名，也就是说，钱包基本上可以强制执行后量子签名。
And that'll allow for post quantum signatures, like, you know, essentially wallets can enforce like post quantum signatures.
其他方面，还有我们的隐私部分。
Other things, our privacy sector.
我们在链上讨论隐私已经很久了。
So, like we've talked about privacy for a long time on chains.
目前的隐私解决方案都很笨拙。
Current privacy solutions are kludgy.
我说的笨拙是指，普通用户在使用钱包时，要么放弃自我托管，要么在参与隐私交易时承担很大的财务风险。
And when I say kludgy as in like average user who's using a wallet is either giving up self custody or is taking on significant financial risk when they're like engaging in privacy.
我们想做的是，简单到就像你切换一个开关，就能把一笔原本公开的交易变成私有交易。
What we wanna do is do something as simple as like you toggle a switch and you can take a transaction that was going to be a public transaction and make it a private transaction.
这样，你就可以在同一个钱包界面里，同时进行公开和私有交易。
So, you can have a mix of both public and private transactions using the same wallet interface.
这是独一无二的。
That's unique.
还有一些底层技术，让我们能够实现亚秒级最终确认。
There's other stuff under the hood that makes it possible for us to achieve the sub second finality.
我们有一个新的共识层。
We have a new consensus layer.
这个我们已经聊过了。
We've already talked about it.
我们收购了那家公司，就是为了拿到Malachite共识层。
We acquired this company to get the Malachite consensus layer.
所有这些加在一起，就构成了Arc在技术上的独特之处。
All of these things together sort of build what is sort of unique about Arc from a technical perspective.
未来还会有新的创新。
There's gonna be new innovation as well.
比如我们会针对特定类型的流量，比如代理流量、支付流量，去开发专门的领域，这样就能为这些新兴的经济参与者，比如代理，提供快速交易，不过这个还在推进中。
Like we're gonna be looking at other custom sectors for specific type of traffic, whether it's agent traffic, whether it's payments traffic, so that we can have like fast transactions for these new economic actors like agents that are emerging, but that is still a work in progress.
明白了。
I see.
既然你提到了隐私，那我们就深入聊聊这块吧。
Let's since you brought up privacy, let's just dive into that part.
你说有公开交易和私有交易，这个模式听起来跟Zcash挺像的。
You said that there are public transactions and private transactions feels pattern patterns wise similar to Zcash.
你有屏蔽的Zcash。
You have shielded Zcash.
你有未屏蔽的Zcash。
You have unshielded Zcash.
但是Arc上的隐私是完全的吗？
But is the privacy on Arc complete?
比如，Arc和验证者，他们能不能有点后门来绕过隐私？
Like, does Arc and the validators, are they able to kinda backdoor the privacy?
还是说，不。
Or is the No.
隐私实际上，比如，像Zcash那样强大吗？如果它是私密的，那就是真正锁定的、私密的。
Privacy actually, like, as strong, for example, as something like Zcash where if it is private, it is truly locked down and private.
你会怎么评价Arc上你获得的隐私水平？
How would you qualify the level of privacy that you get on Arc?
我不是Zcash的专家，虽然我经常用Zcash。
I'm not an expert on Zcash even though I use Zcash plenty.
我会说，回答这个具体问题，就是验证者无法查看你的交易。
I will say, will answer this specific question, which is like, validators are not gonna be able to look at your transactions.
这不是我们想要的事情。
That is not a thing that we want.
那会破坏隐私的意义。
That defeats the purpose of having privacy.
整个概念，所有私人交易基本上都通过TEE运行，也就是可信执行层。
Like the whole notion, the whole, all private transactions essentially run through TEEs, which is a trusted execution layer.
没有人能看穿那些。
And nobody's able to look inside those.
我的意思是，Circle也无法查看那些交易。
I mean, Circle cannot look inside those transactions.
所以，当我说隐私，就是真正的隐私。
So, like, when I say privacy, is true privacy.
而金融交易只是我们觉得这些技术能实现的第一天。
And financial transactions is just day one of like what we think like these things can enable.
我很期待其他类型的应用。
I am looking forward to other kinds of applications.
比如，我最喜欢的应用之一就是医疗类的应用。
Like one of my favorite applications is sort of medical applications.
我相信大家都有这样的经历，家里有些医疗数据，然后会跟GPT聊这些。
I'm sure everybody has this experience in their family where they have some medical data about that they're like talking to a GPT about.
这里面其实是有风险的。
And there's some risk in that.
并不是说没有风险，比如你可能会泄露这些信息，GPT可能会把这些信息泄露给它自己或者其他人。
It's not like risk free in that, like you will leak that, the GPT might leak that information to whether itself or to others.
所以，我非常期待的一个应用就是，能够启动一个定制的虚拟机，里面有一个GPT，而我所有的健康数据都是私密加密的。
And so, one application I'm really looking forward to is essentially being able to fire up like a custom VM that has a GPT and all of my health data being privately encrypted.
然后我可以私下提问，最后销毁那个虚拟机，得到我需要的答案，同时所有数据都加密并存储在链上。
And me being able to ask like questions in privacy, and at the end of it, being able to destroy that VM and essentially get the answers I need and have all of the data encrypted and stored on chain.
这在目前是做不到的。
So, that is not possible today.
但现在我不得不去注册一些我根本不太懂的服务，把信息交给他们，只能指望他们不会乱用我的信息。
And instead, what I have to do is like, I sign up for stuff I don't fully understand, I give it information, I don't, I have to just trust them as to what they're gonna do with my information.
所以，隐私只是第一步。
So, privacy is just the beginning.
在我看来，隐私在很多方面其实是可验证计算的一个属性，对吧？
Privacy is a, in my mind, a property of like verifiable compute in many ways, right?
就像你告诉我这笔交易会是私密的。
Like you are telling me that this transaction is gonna be private.
但可验证计算还有很多东西还没实现。
And so, but there are many things in verifiable compute that are here yet to come.
我觉得区块链和Arc在我们不断演进这种互联网核心计算架构的过程中，可以发挥关键作用。
And I think blockchains and like Arc can play a key role as we evolve sort of like this core computing architecture that like we have come to rely on for the Internet.
为了确认我理解得对，Arc上隐私的信任假设是通过TEE来实现的。
And just to just to make sure I understand the answer, the trust assumption for privacy on Arc is via TEEs.
这就是Arc实现隐私的方式。
That is how Arc achieves privacy.
这就是信任假设。
That is the trust assumption.
我们在隐私方面有相关措施。
We have in our privacy sector.
我们在白皮书里也提到了这一点，基本上是这样。
Like, we talk about it in the white paper, like, essentially.
除了制造商，没人能窥探TEE内部。
No one can look inside of TEE except for the manufacturer.
制造商大概不会这么做。
Manufacturer's probably not doing
对。
that.
有没有计划把隐私保护升级到纯密码学方案，还是说我们满足于用TEE作为信任假设？
Is there a plan to evolve the privacy to something like like straight cryptography, or are we satisfied with, like, the TEE as the trust assumption?
目前，我觉得我们满足于用TEE作为信任假设，因为我们还有性能方面的限制要实现。
For now, I think we're satisfied with the TEE as the trust assumption because we also have like performance constraints that we wanna implement.
这就是已知验证者集合的一个特点。
And that is one of the features of a known validator set.
我们清楚TEE是什么，它们在哪里运行。
Like, we know what the TEEs are, where they're running.
但这并不意味着你不能进行私密的加密交易。
And that doesn't mean that you cannot engage in, like, private cryptographic transactions.
我们还有后量子签名，就像我说的，我们即将进入测试阶段。
Like, that is a thing that we have post quantum signatures that we that, like I said, like, we're gonna go into beta with.
这些是私密的，你可以在平台上进行其他类型的加密操作。
Those are private like, those are you can engage in other kinds of cryptography on the platform.
比如，为了你我之间的私人发送和接收，是的，我们采用了基于TEE的架构。
Like, for the purposes of, entering into a private send receive between you and I, yes, we have a TE based architecture.
我想了解一下不可变性。
I wanna learn about immutability.
假设我是Arc Chain上的一个用户，我搞砸了，损失了一大笔USDC，比如一万美元或十万美元。
Say, I am a user on the Arc Chain and I mess something up and I've lost a meaningful amount of USDC, $10,000, a $100,000.
而且在这个情况下，我其实还能向你证明，那些USDC确实没了，被锁住了、冻结了、烧掉了，随便怎么说。
And I'm actually also, in this scenario, able to prove to you that that USDC is, like, actually gone, locked, frozen, burnt, whatever.
我有没有什么办法能把钱拿回来？
Am I able to get my money back in any particular way?
Arc对不可变性是什么态度？
What what's Arc's relationship with immutability?
一切都是不可变的。
It is all immutable.
它和其他区块链没什么两样。
It is not like it is it is like any other blockchain.
不管是好是坏，我觉得不可变性都有它的利弊。
Like, unfortunately or fortunately, like, I think there's pros and cons to immutability.
你刚才说的就是弊端之一。
What you're describing is a con.
我不会为了任何事情去回滚链，除非有什么紧急情况。
I'm not interested in rolling back the chain for anything, like, unless there's like a Rolling
回滚链并不是一个属性，而是
back the chain is not a property, is
这不是链的一个特性或属性，对吧？
It's not a not feature of a a property of the chain, right?
这可不是小事，做这种事影响太大了。
Like it is not like, it is such a significant event to do that.
我觉得用户应该小心他们使用的USDC，或者说，他们在Arc上交互的任何代币合约，就像在其他地方交互这些代币合约时一样小心。
I think users should be careful about like the USDC that they're using, or for that matter, any token contract that they're interacting with on Arc, much like they would be careful about interacting those interacting with those token contracts elsewhere.
我们在这里并没有任何特殊权力，比如改变交易走向之类的。
We don't have any special powers, like, essentially, over here, like, change the course of the transactions.
每个成功的区块链都要经历一个必经阶段，当它们足够成功时，那就是拉撒路事件。
There's, like, this this rite of passage that all successful blockchains go through when they are sufficiently successful, and it's just the it's the Lazarus event.
所以Arc想要成功。
So Arc wants to be successful.
我希望你们能成功。
I want you guys to be successful.
我希望你们能有几十亿甚至更多的TVL。
I want you guys to have billions and billions upon TVL.
你们的成功会吸引Lazarus Group。
Your success is going to attract Lazarus Group.
Lazarus Group相当成功。
Lazarus Group is pretty successful.
他们可能会得手，而且可能搞到一大笔。
They might get away with something, and they might get away with something large.
如果Lazarus Group从Arc Chain上提取超过一百万美元，你对此有什么看法？
What what what do you think about when you you think about the potential future event of, like, the Lazarus Group extracting a million plus dollars out of Arc Chain?
你们讨论过这种可能性吗？
Have you guys discussed this possibility?
当我把这些话放进你脑子里时，你首先想到什么？
What what comes to mind when I put these words in your brain?
我的意思是，听着，安全是个关键问题。
I mean, look, security is a key concern.
我们非常专注于确保链的安全性。
Like, we are focused we are very focused on, like, making sure that the chain is secure.
我们全天候进行审计。
We're running audits twenty four seven.
对。
And Yeah.
我更多指的是应用层。
Think I mean more in the app layer.
比如说，如果AAVE或者某个借贷协议被部署了，然后被Lazarus Group利用了。
Like, say, AAVE, for example, gets implemented or some lending protocol gets implemented and they get exploited by Lazarus Group.
Lazarus Group手里有数千万甚至数亿美元的USDC。
And Lazarus Group has tens of millions of dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars of USDC.
我不想对具体场景进行猜测，也不知道这种安全漏洞会涉及什么，但我要说的是，基本原则就是这是一条不可变的链。
I don't wanna speculate on like the specific scenario and like, you know, I don't know what's going into like, you know, this this sort of security violation, but I'll say what I'll say is like the simple principle is it is an immutable chain.
它是公共基础设施。
It is public infrastructure.
我们有二十多个验证节点。
There are 20 plus validators.
这是一个不可篡改的链，我们运营的是公共金融基础设施，我们想本着诚信来做这件事，对吧？
Like it's an immutable chain where we are, we're running public financial infrastructure and we want to do that in good faith, right?
所以，具体是什么情况我也不清楚。
So, don't know what the specific scenario is.
而且我觉得这种情况有很多，评估时也会涉及很多不同的输入条件。
And I think there are a lot of such scenarios and there are a lot of different like input conditions that go into like the evaluation of the scenario.
所以，我想推测一下我们会怎么处理，但至少原则是，你看，这是一条不可篡改的链。
So, like, I wanna speculate on like how we will handle it, but at least the principle, which like going into it is like, look, it's an immutable chain.
我们希望它能遵循公共互联网上其他不可篡改链的特性。
We wanna make sure that it is, it follows the properties of other immutable chains that are on the public internet.
而且我觉得，如果破坏了这一点，就会破坏信任，而且这种信任很难重新建立起来。
And I think if you break that, I think you break trust at a level that like, I think people will have a hard time like, sort of like establishing that trust again.
但我们想成为市场中明智的参与者。
But we wanna be the smart actors in the market.
我们要确保我们的链是安全的，我们的应用也是安全的。
We wanna make sure that like our chains are secure, our apps are secure.
我们想提供安全服务，确保部署的人对链有足够的了解，不会在链上部署不安全的应用程序。
We wanna give, like, security services offering to, like we wanna make sure that, like, people who are deploying are, like, know know the chain sufficiently, that they're not deploying, like, insecure apps on the chain.
我们来聊聊Arc生态早期会有哪些活动吧。
Let's talk about what activity is going to be early in the Arc ecosystem.
所以有一些我们常见的，比如EVM一层网络上线时会出现的那些项目。
So there are some of, like, the the usual suspects that we would see coming online with an EVM layer one.
我预计会看到Uniswap这样的AMM上线，还有像Aave这样的项目。
I would expect to see a Uniswap, an AMM come online, something like Aave.
那你先跟我聊聊那些常见的项目，然后我还想听听那些不常见的，比如新的合作伙伴，或者在其他生态里还没出现过的新经济活动，你希望它们在Arc早期出现。
So talk to me about what the usual suspects are, and then also I want to hear about the unusual suspects, the new partners, the new economic activity that hasn't been found elsewhere in the ecosystem that you are hoping to see come to Arc in its early days.
所以跟我聊聊常见的，还有不常见的那些项目吧。
So talk to me about the usual and also the unusual suspects.
我觉得常见的那些就是基础协议，比如AMM。
I mean, I think the usual suspects are like the borderland protocols are the AMMs.
就是市场上那些大型加密货币交易所。
It's the all the exchanges that are like all the big crypto exchanges that are in the market.
至于那些不常见的参与者，我觉得是大型资产发行方，他们虽然已经试过水，但我预计他们在Arc上的活跃度会比在其他地方更高。
We have the unusual suspects are, I guess the large asset issuers, like they are they have dipped their toes, but I expect them to be more prolific on Arc than they have been elsewhere.
还有我之前提到的Stable FX，这是我们为了让区块链不仅支持美元，还能支持世界其他货币而做的尝试。
Stable FX, which I've talked about, which is like our foray into making sure that blockchains work not just for US dollars, but also work for other currencies around the world.
然后还有一大堆代理相关的活动。
And then there's a bunch of like agentic activity.
比如我们今天已经发布了一整套代理栈。
Like we have like, you know, we have a whole agent stack that we've issued today.
我们正在开发更多代理原语，让代理能够证明来源，证明它们过去做了什么，也就是能够证明历史。
We are in the process of like issuing, creating more like agent primitives that allow for agents to prove provenance, agents to prove what they have done in the past, like essentially being able to prove history.
所以我预计这类活动会更多，而且可能会围绕区块链原生的事物，比如交易之类的。
And so, I'm expecting more of that activity, you know, and it'll probably be around things that are like native to blockchain sports, which is trading and such.
我觉得很多代理都会做这些事。
Like, I think a lot of these agents will do that.
我预计会有大量的信贷活动发生。
I am expecting a ton of like credit activity to happen.
而让我兴奋的一点是代理信贷活动。
And one of the things I'm excited about is agentic credit activity.
比如说，你启动一个代理，拿到一笔小额贷款，然后出去赚点钱，再把贷款还上。
Like, you know, you start up an agent, you get a little loan and then you go out and like make a little money and then you pay the loan back.
然后你就能这样循环起来。
And then you sort of spin this.
我的意思是，一旦这些信贷市场在Arc和其他地方开始运作，循环这个词就会有全新的含义。
I mean, looping will take a whole new meaning once these credit markets start functioning on Arc and elsewhere.
所以，我觉得这会是新事物。
And so, I think that will be new.
还有什么呢？
What else?
而且，你看，这是一条公有链。
And there's all I mean, look, it's a public chain.
它完全连接了所有其他35条有USDC的链。
It is fully connected to all of the other 35 chains where USDC is.
它有很深的连接性。
It has deep connectivity.
它能把任何资产桥接到任何链上。
It has the ability to bridge any asset to any chain.
所以我预计模因币活动会，你知道，我称之为文化应用。
And so I'm expecting meme coin activity to, like, you know, what I call, like, you know, culture apps.
他们喜欢模因，模因并不是互联网上某些部分不喜欢的。
They like, memes are not like, some part of the internet like frowns on memes.
我认为模因本质上创造文化。
I think memes essentially create culture.
以前文化从别处开始，但现在文化从互联网开始。
Like culture used to begin elsewhere, but now culture begins on the internet.
所以，我也期待大量这样的活动。
And so, I expect a ton of that activity as well.
而且我们欢迎各种类型的活动。
And like, we welcome all kinds of activity.
你知道，互联网不只是用来发邮件、打视频电话或者处理银行信息的。
Like, you know, the internet is not just for sending emails or doing video calls or or like doing banking information.
互联网也不会把流量分开，说这部分只用来做银行业务。
And the internet doesn't split up the traffic saying like, well, this part of the internet is just for banking.
那部分只用来玩游戏。
And this part of the internet is just for playing games.
我们要确保一切皆有可能。
We wanna make sure that everything is possible.
随着新的第一层链上线，我们看到这些团队真的像风投一样押注在特定类型的活动或应用上。
As new layer ones have come online, we've seen layer one teams really make, like, venture style bets on a specific type of activity, a specific type of app.
如果你们想的话，可以在Aave里跟以太坊拼借贷，或者在Uniswap里拼AMM交易。
Like, if you guys want, you can go toe to toe with Ethereum on borrowing lending inside of Aave or, you know, know, AMM swaps inside of Uniswap.
但我不确定那是不是你们最能发挥优势的地方。
I don't know if that's where you guys are going to be the most successful.
这有点像入场券，必须有，但我不确定Arc能不能在以太坊那个近乎垄断的DeFi领域里赢过它。
It's kind of like table stakes to have it, but I don't know if Arc is ever going to beat Ethereum on, you know, Ethereum's slow DeFi near monopoly.
那你们具体押注了哪些方向呢？
So what are some of the venture style bets?
我记得你提了好几次Agent，那你们在Arc上押注的、能很快带来十亿笔交易的活动会是什么呢？
I think you mentioned Agents a bunch of times, but what are what are gonna be the activities on Arc that you guys are betting on that bring 1,000,000,000 transactions to Arc, like, soon?
所以你们押注的新活动具体是哪些？
So what what are the the new activities that you guys are are betting on?
首先，以太坊是所有链的老祖宗。
First, I'd say, like, you know, Ethereum is the granddaddy of everybody.
所以我们不是来跟它抢的。
Like so, like, we are not here.
我觉得如果我们只是把以太坊的活动搬到Arc上，那并没有真正扩大市场。
Like, I think if all we did was we took activity from Ethereum and moved it to Arc, we didn't really grow the market.
这对我们的业务也没什么帮助，因为我们是最大的USDC链，而以太坊是USDC最大的链。
Like, you know, it doesn't really help our business because we are the largest USDC has The biggest chain for USDC is Ethereum.
所以我们推出Arc的一个兴趣点，就是要确保USDC能从Arc中受益。
And so, one of one of our interests in, like, getting Arc out is to make sure that, like, USDC, like, gets benefit from Arc.
如果我们只是把USDC的部署从以太坊搬到Arc，那市场并没有增长。
And if all we're doing is moving, you know, like, deployment of USDC from Ethereum to to Arc, like, it's we didn't and we don't grow the market.
这对我们来说没什么意思。
That's not really exciting to us.
这是第一点。
So that's one.
第二点，我觉得代理活动确实会活跃起来。
Second, I'd say is like, yeah, I do think, like, the agentic activity is gonna pick up.
代理应该成为独立的经济参与者。
Like, agents should become, like, independent economic actors.
现在所有的代理都是私有的。
Today, all the agents are sort of private.
比如我很难把我的代理分享给你。
Like I can't share my agent with you very easily.
就像我分享一个技能文件。
Like I share a skills.
一个Markdown文件。
Md file.
你在你的代理虚拟机里运行它，就能启动同样的代理。
You run it through your agent VM and you're able to sort of like fire up the same agent.
但即便如此，你也得不到我拥有的那些保证。
And even then you're not getting the same guarantees I have.
我确实认为这些代理会变成经济参与者。
I do think like these agents will become economic actors.
它们会在互联网上展示自己。
They will sort of present themselves on the internet.
它们必须证明自己完成了一定的活动量。
They will have to prove that they have done a certain amount of activity.
问题是，你如何信任这些代理提供的证明呢？
The question is like, how are you going to come to rely on the proofs that the agents are presenting?
我觉得那必须是密码学证明。
I think they have to be cryptographic proofs.
所以，我们会成为这些代理的家，让它们能真正记录自己的活动，并提供相关证明。
So, we will be a home for these agents where they can actually record their activity, provide proofs around the activity.
未来三四年里代理做的事情，跟二十年前网站做的事情没什么两样。
What agents do in the next three or four years will be no different than like what websites did like twenty years ago.
比如二十、二十五年前，网站用的是HTTP，不安全。
Like twenty, twenty five years ago, websites were HTTP, they were not secure.
你可能会遇到各种攻击，比如中间人攻击，你甚至都不知道自己是不是在跟以为的那个网站对话。
You could go on like, you know, you could have all kinds of attacks, man in the middle attacks, like, you wouldn't even know if you're talking to the website that you think you're talking to.
这些问题后来都通过新的协议层解决了，比如新的参与者给网站颁发证书，确保你的浏览器确实是在跟你以为的那个网站通信。
Like all of that gets, all of that got solved by like new protocol layers, like new actors coming in, giving certificates to websites and like, and making sure that you were actually, your browser was truly talking to the website that you thought you were talking to.
我觉得代理的标准会更高。
I think agents will have a higher bar.
不只是你要确保是在跟以为的那个代理对话，而且这个代理确实有它声称的工作历史和经济产出。
It's not just that you're talking to the agent that you think you're talking to, but the agent actually has the work history, the economic output that they claim that they have actually done.
那我们怎么验证这一切呢？
So, how are we gonna verify all of that?
所有这些都应该转移到Arc上。
All of that should move to Arc.
而且如果支付变得非常简单，特别是对于嵌套代理来说，如果我是一个代理，我有一个策略，我想再启动一千个代理，给这一千个代理钱包、策略和资金，然后这一千个代理之间可以互相交易，还可以为其他代理提供资金。
And if you make payments really easy, especially for nested agents, if I'm an agent and I have a policy and I wanna fire off another thousand agents, and I wanna give those thousand agents a wallet and a policy and some money, And those thousand agents can essentially like transact with each other and not and for the fire of other agents.
我们一直在思考这个问题，考虑活动嵌套的程度以及活动之间的连接程度。
We keep sort of like reasoning about it reasoning about this in terms of like how nested the activity gets and how connected the activity gets.
唯一真正可行的办法就是使用稳定币，并且要在一个风险最小的地方进行这些代理之间的交易。
The only real way to do it is to do it using stablecoins and is to make sure that And to do it in a place where you're carrying minimal risk when these agents are transacting with each other.
这就是为什么支付最终性很重要，对吧？
That's why payment finality matters, right?
这就是为什么亚秒级最终性很重要。
That's why sub second finality matters.
这就是为什么这些代理的信贷市场很重要。
That's why credit markets for these agents matter.
所以，所有这些流量都是全新的、前所未有的。
So, all of that traffic is new and novel.
而且，我们会动用我们技术栈里的所有东西来支撑这些流量。
And like, we are going to be using everything in our stack to essentially enable all of that traffic.
所以，这不只是说，嘿，你的代理能不能有支付方式，能不能用X402或其他协议在网上交易。
So, it's not just about like, hey, can your agent a method of payment and can they go transact somewhere on the internet using X402 or some other protocol?
这远远不止这些。
It is much more than that.
这更像是，嘿，代理需要哪些东西，才能真正成为完全的经济参与者？
It is like, hey, what are all the things that agents need so that they can truly become fully economic actors?
就像你有社保号、有工作经历、有能力批准所有这些一样。
Much like you have a social security number, you have a work history, you have an ability to approve all of that.
代理怎么获得这些呢？
How does an agent get all of that?
这样的基础设施还不存在。
That infrastructure doesn't exist.
我希望这不只是在Arc上。
And I'm hoping this is not just on Arc.
这真的是分布在整个互联网上的，对吧？
This is truly distributed on the internet, Right?
我们希望每个人都能访问这个基础设施，并且希望它是公开透明的。
Like, we want everybody to be able to access this infrastructure, and we want this infrastructure to be in the open.
这基本上就是我们在Arc上推出代理平台时的核心理念。
That's what that is sort of like a core thesis for us when it comes to like agentic the agentic platform that we're launching on Arc.
我交易加密货币差不多十年了，用过各种各样的钱包、交易所、聚合器，还有不同的前端界面，这些年我一直在找同一个东西。
I've been trading crypto for almost a decade, and I've used so many different wallets, exchanges, aggregators, different front ends over the years, and I'm always kind of looking for the same thing.
就是一个界面，能跨多条链和多种资产提供深度流动性，让我能进入所有市场，比如永续合约、赚取收益、保密交易，同时还能自己掌控所有资金。
Just one interface with deep liquidity across a bunch of chains and assets where I can access all the markets like perps, earn yield, trade confidentially, and still control all my own funds.
但我从来没真正找到过这种体验，我总是在换钱包、应付燃气费，还老是被滑点吃掉利润。
And I've never really found this experience, and I'm always switching wallets, juggling gas fees, and just getting eaten by slippage.
Near.com不是那样的。
Near.com is not that.
对我来说，这感觉完全不一样。
It feels fundamentally different to me.
我可以从任何链上做我想做的一切，而且我的所有活动都是保密的。
I can do everything I want from any chain, and I keep all my activity confidential.
我甚至还能秘密地赚取收益。
I can even earn yield confidentially.
这才是加密货币应该有的样子。
It's the way crypto should work.
near.com钱包由NEAR提供支持，已经通过后量子签名处理了超过250亿美元的跨链交易，并且在主网上运行了五年多，零停机。
The near.com wallet is powered by NEAR, and it's moved over $25,000,000,000 cross chain using post quantum signing and has run over five years on Mainnet with zero downtime.
Near.com就是上链并掌控一切的最佳方式。
Near.com is simply the best way to be on chain and be in control.
使用节目说明中的Bankless链接，可以返还你20%的交易手续费，这不是投资建议。
Get 20% of your trading fees back using the Bankless link in the show notes, not investment advice.
Bankless的伙伴们，我们为你们打造了一些东西。
Bankless nation, we've built something for you.
隆重推出Bankless MCP。
Introducing the Bankless MCP.
Chat GPT和Claude在很多方面都很厉害，但你要是问它们一些超出基础范围的加密问题，比如协议机制、代币经济，或者上周加密圈发生了什么，它们的短板就露出来了。
Chat GPT and Claude are great at a lot of things, but them anything beyond the basics of crypto about protocol mechanics, tokenomics, or just what happened last week in crypto, and the gaps will start to show.
问题在于上下文。
The problem is context.
而Bankless这边，花了将近十年时间，建立了业内最深厚的加密数据档案之一。
Bankless, on the other hand, has spent almost a decade building one of the deepest archives of crypto data anywhere.
超过2000份播客文字稿、10000篇文章，还有无数与真正在建设这个行业的人的对话。
More than 2,000 podcast transcripts, 10,000 articles, and countless conversations with the people actually building this industry.
现在，我们把所有这些数据整合进了Bankless MCP。
And now we've structured all of that data into the Bankless MCP.
你可以把它连接到你的Claude或ChatGPT，突然之间，你的AI就能借助整个Bankless档案库来回答你的加密问题了。
So you can go and connect it to your Claude or ChatGPT, and suddenly your AI can answer your crypto queries with the entire Bankless archive behind it.
而且每一篇新的Bankless文章或节目都会自动加入，所以上下文能一直保持最新。
And every new Bankless article or episode gets added automatically, so the context keeps staying up to date.
Bankless MCP 只对 Bankless 的付费订阅用户开放。
The Bankless MCP is exclusively available to Bankless premium subscribers.
所以你可以去 bankless.com，升级到付费版，几分钟内就能连接 MCP，然后你向 AI 大模型提问加密货币相关问题时，效果会好上一千倍。
So you can go to bankless.com, upgrade to premium, and connect the MCP in just a few minutes, and all of a sudden, your crypto queries to your AI LLM, whatever you use, will get a thousand times better.
所以去看看吧。
So go check it out.
节目说明里有链接，一旦你成为 Bankless 的付费会员，就可以加入 Bankless 的 Discord，告诉我你的使用感受。
There is a link in the show notes, and once you become a Bankless premium member, you can hop into the Bankless Discord and me know how you like it.
有个激动人心的消息。
Some exciting news.
我们正在推出一档新播客，帮助大家理解加密货币周期，以及如何应对。
We are launching a new podcast to help people figure out the crypto cycle, how to navigate it.
我认识的最厉害的加密货币周期投资者，他叫 Michael Nato。
The best crypto cycle investor I know, his name is Michael Nato.
他运营着 The DeFi Report。
He runs The DeFi Report.
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就是这个人，在10月10号价格大跌之前给我发了卖出提醒。
This is the guy that sent me a sell alert before the 10/10 price drop happened.
他的周期分析一直非常准确。
His cycle analysis has been absolutely on point.
我关注他好几年了。
I've been following him for years.
今年我们开始每周录制播客节目。
And this year, we started recording weekly podcast episodes.
每一期我们都会聊他的投资组合、他持有什么、市场结构、入场目标、比特币和以太坊的公允价值，以及我们现在处于周期的哪个阶段。
Each one, we get into his portfolio, what he's holding, the market structure, entry targets, fair market value of Bitcoin and Ether, and where we are in the cycle.
每周三都会发布新一期。
There's new episodes that are released every Wednesday.
每期三十分钟。
They're thirty minutes.
时间不长。
They're short.
内容很精炼。
They're punchy.
我觉得这轮加密货币周期比大多数周期都难把握，所以让我们一起应对吧。
I think this crypto cycle is harder to navigate than most, so let's do it together.
去订阅这个播客吧。
Go subscribe to this podcast.
无论你在哪里收听播客，YouTube、Apple、Spotify，都可以搜索DeFi Report，或者查看节目笔记里的链接。
Search the DeFi Report wherever you get your podcasts, YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or find a link in the show notes.
现在有一期新节目在等着你。
There's a new episode waiting for you now.
你能给我和听众们讲讲当前代理商务领域的现状吗？
Can you tap me and the listeners into what the current state of play is in the world of agentic commerce?
因为我一直在等代理商务的世界主动找上门来。
Because I'm waiting for the world of Agents Commerce to kind of come to me.
我并没有主动去追求它。
I'm not really pursuing it.
我对那些细节不太了解，但我知道智能体商务是个很热门的词，大家都很喜欢聊这个。
I'm not deep in those weeds, but I do know that Agents Commerce is a very big buzzword and people love to talk about it.
我还没真正体验过。
I haven't yet experienced it.
那你和Arc凭什么这么有信心，觉得这里面真的有值得去追求的东西，而不是一堆在播客上让人兴奋的流行词？
So what gives you and Arc the confidence that there is something there actually real worth pursuing rather than, like, a bunch of buzzwords that get people excited on podcasts?
所以，给我们讲讲那边到底是怎么回事吧。
So, like, tap us into what's going on in that neck of the woods.
什么是真的？
What's real?
好的。
Okay.
我们先聊聊智能体作为行动者，然后再聊智能体商务。
Let's talk about like agents as actors, like essentially, and then let's talk about Agentic Commerce as well.
比如，智能体作为行动者，智能体在进行交易。
Like, so agents as actors, agents are trading.
他们在交易，大家都在争着用智能体。
They're trading, like people are fighting up agents.
每个人都有想法，具体的主意，想追求的具体优势。
Everybody has an idea, like a specific idea, like specific alpha that they'd like to go after.
他们正在争夺一批现在用于交易的智能体。
And they are fighting up a pool of agents that are being used right now to do the trading activity right now.
我们在链上看到了，看到了链上的流量模式，智能体在做这些事。
We see it on chain, we see the traffic patterns on chain, agents are doing it.
你不太能看到的是你的智能体拿着你的信用卡帮你买东西。
What you don't see enough of is like your agent taking your credit card and making a purchase for you.
我觉得这就是你说的智能体商务还没实现的意思。
That I think is what you mean by like Agentic Commerce not being there.
我确实觉得在过去一两周，我们看到了一些新的智能体出现，它们基本上就是拿你的信用卡，存在保险库里，然后创建一次性授权和策略，去某个地方花这笔钱。
I do think in the last week or two, we have seen a bunch of new agents come out that are starting to use like, they're essentially taking your credit card, storing it in a vault, using, like creating one time auth essentially and policy to go and spend that money somewhere.
我想说，这些智能体本身才出现一个月。
That is just, I wanna say those agents themselves are only a month old.
现在这些代理在全球的分布还不是很广。
They are not like very well distributed in the world right now.
当这些代理变得普及之后，你不仅会看到它们通过信用卡交易，还会看到它们使用稳定币进行交易。
When those agents become much more distributed, like you will see like those agents, not just transacting using credit card rails, but also transacting using a stablecoin rails.
到那时，它们会购买你在现实世界中使用的物品，也就是我们常说的实体世界。
And at that point, they'd be buying things that you use like in the real physical world or the meat world as we like to call it.
比如，它们会用来买机票，或者你想买的某件衣服之类的。
Like they would be using it to buy, you know, whether it's a good plane ticket or whether it is like, it is something you wanna, like, you know, piece of clothing that you're looking to buy.
我觉得到目前为止，这样的界面还不存在。
I don't think the interface for that has existed so far.
不知道你最近有没有关注这些代理，我现在已经把我的信用卡绑定了一个代理，我的第一次代理购物还挺有趣的。
I don't know if you've kept up with these agents like in the last month, but like I now I have my credit card enabled with an agent and my first agentic purchase is actually a funny one.
我的猫需要买跳蚤药。
My cat needed flea medicine.
我去了兽医那里拿到了处方，然后让我的代理去Chewy上买了药。
I went to the vet, I got the prescription and I had my agent go and buy it from Chewy.
我当时就想，我可不想管这事儿。
And I was like, I don't wanna deal with this.
你能不能帮我确保它送到我家？
Can you please just make sure that this lands at my house?
结果还真送到了。
And it did.
所以这就是代理商务的例子，就是那些你根本不想自己操心的交易。
And so that is an example of Agentic Commerce, commerce transactions that you really don't wanna engage with yourself.
但在区块链这边，我们还有代理在训练中。
But on the other side, on the blockchain side, we still have like agents essentially like training.
我是说，这些代理很快就能获得信用了。
Like, I mean, the agents are like, agents will be getting credit very soon.
很快他们就能管理风险了。
Like, will be taking they will be sort of managing risk very soon.
而且规模会比现在大得多。
Like, at more scale than they are able to do right now.
你觉得互联网上已经有商业了吗？
Do you think so there's already commerce on the Internet.
我们有像Web 2.0那样的商业。
We have like Web two commerce.
对。
Yep.
代理式商业会在多大程度上只是消耗普通的Web 2.0商业，还是说会有全新的商业被首次发现和建立起来？
How much of Agentic Commerce will simply consume normal Web two commerce, or is it more that there is net new commerce that will be discovered, built built for the first time with Agentic Commerce?
还是两者都有一些？
Or is it a little bit of both?
你看，如果是商品和服务，你买的是商品，就像我们刚才描述的，那是商品类的商业。
Look, if it's goods and services, like you're buying, like goods is like, what we just described is like goods goods commerce.
比如，你去买一个小玩意儿，你希望代理能帮你买好，处理好其中的复杂性。
Like, you're going out there trying to buy a widget and you wanna make sure that the agent does a good job of buying the widget and, like, deals with complexity of it.
服务类的商业就完全不同了。
Services commerce is very different.
我觉得服务型商务基本上就是让智能体去做人类的工作，并且展示它们能从头到尾完成类似人类的工作。
Like I think services commerce is agents as essentially doing human like work and sort of presenting that they can do full end to end human like work.
我觉得这完全是全新的东西。
That I think is totally new.
这要么可以说是对人类劳动力的替代，要么是对人类劳动力的补充，或者是填补了人类劳动力无法填补的空白，因为有些工作对人类来说成本太高，或者任务太小，不值得人类去成立公司来做，比如那些两美元的任务，智能体却愿意接手。
And that is either you can argue is like replacement of the human labor or is additive to human labor or sort of fills in the gap where human labor has not been able to fill in the gap because it's just too expensive for a human to do it, or the task is not big enough for a human to go create a company to do like $2 tasks that, like an agent will take on.
我觉得这就是机会所在，也就是说，我可以自己用我的智能体虚拟机，构建我自己的智能体来做所有这些事情。
I think that's the opportunity, which is to say like, hey, I can either go do all of these things myself by using my own agent virtual machine and then building my own agents to do all of that.
或者我可以在网上雇一群智能体来帮我做这些事情。
Or I can go hire a bunch of agents on the internet who can go do these things for me.
我们还没到那一步。
We're not there yet.
我觉得我们现在更接近商品商务，因为我认为那很快就会实现。
I think we're closer to the goods commerce right now because I see that as like superbly imminent.
比如，我可以给你举个例子，有些商务活动我以前不想参与，但我能利用智能体去完成。
Like, I think like I just give you an example of something of commerce that I didn't wanna engage with, that I was able to like utilize an agent to do that.
但是当有人能过来说，嘿，你看，我们有一个代理市场。
But like when somebody is able to come in and say like, Hey, look, I have an we have an agent marketplace.
你可以在里面看到一些列表，人们会说，你能帮我翻译这段文字吗？
You can we can see listings in there where people are able to say things like, Can you translate this text for me?
然后代理会回来说，好的，我来做。
And then agent will come back and say like, Yeah, I'll do it.
你可以付我超过X个季度，大概要花你30美分。
You can pay me over X quarter '2 and it's gonna cost you 30¢.
这是一个例子，我觉得今天不会有一个人去成立一家公司来翻译一段文字，然后经历整个经济谈判，比如，嘿，你会付钱吗？
That's an example of something that is I don't think a human setting up that company today to go translate like, you know, a paragraph of text and like, you know, is going through the entire economic negotiation of like, Hey, are you gonna pay me?
还要确保付款完成，确保工作完成，确保工作质量高。
And like making sure that like the payment happens and making sure that the work comes out and making sure that the work is of high quality.
所以那些零碎的工作，目前人类要么做不了，要么没有动力去做，在我看来，会从你的私人工作空间或私人生活外包到公共互联网上。
So those piecemeal work that currently that humans either cannot do or are not incented to do will get outsourced in my mind from your private workspace or your private life onto the public internet.
在那里，这些代理会变成各自领域的专家，不管是一个只会订购猫粮的代理，还是只会处理宠物用药之类的代理。
And there, these agents will become specialists in what they are able to do, whether it's an agent that can, maybe there's an agent that all it does is like figures out like how to order cat food or like how figures out how to do like, you know, pet medication or anything like that.
那个智能体会比我做的任何东西都强得多。
And that agent is gonna be far superior to anything I can build.
而且，就像大约二十五年前网站上出现的那种专业化分工一样。
And so, and much like there was this specialization on websites that happened, I wanna say, twenty five years ago.
大概是在两千零几年的时候开始的。
And like, it's about like, you know, in the two thousand and two's that it started.
我觉得智能体也会发生同样的事情。
I think the same thing will happen with agents.
我觉得现在的智能体都太简单了。
I think the current agents are like the overly simple.
我们现在还假设所有智能体都能访问所有数据。
They are like We also currently assume that all agents have access to all data.
这些情况将来都不会是真的。
None of those things are gonna be true in the future.
我觉得人们会希望保护自己的数据。
Like, I think there's gonna be a desire for people to sort of like preserve their data.
人们会希望隔离自己的数据，确保只分享必要的信息。
There's desire There's gonna be a desire for people to sort of wanna isolate their data and make sure that they're only sharing data that is necessary.
所有这些都会导致互联网上出现专门化的经济参与者。
So and all of those things will lead to, like, specialized economic actors existing on the Internet.
然后他们之间，或者他们与人类之间，会发生交易，甚至是三方交易。
And, like and and then, like, transactions happening between them with humans and them, or, three way transactions.
很多时候我在工作中收到消息，都不确定是来自代理还是真人。
Like, a lot of times when I get a ping at work, I'm not sure, like, if I'm getting that ping from an agent or I'm getting it from a human.
那么在这个代理商务的世界里，代理有钱、有私钥，Arc和Circle在这个技术栈中真正负责哪些部分，比如构建、创新和优化？又有哪些部分对你们来说是障碍，需要其他方，比如其他初创公司或科技公司来构建，才能真正完成整个代理生态？
So in this world of Agentic Commerce and agents with money, agents with private keys, what parts of this stack is Arc and Circle really taking ownership over in terms of like building and innovating and refining versus what other parts are like blockers for you guys that you guys need other parties, other, you know, startups, other tech companies to build to really complete this whole holistic agentic?
你们在代理技术栈中涉及哪些部分？
What part what part of the agentic stack do you guys touch?
然后你们需要与其他方合作和协作的又是哪些部分？
And then what other parts of the agentic stack are you guys needing to, like, partner with and collaborate with?
我们涉及的代理技术栈部分，基本上是从底层开始的。
The the part of the Agentic stack that we touch is, like, basically bottom up.
我们不是应用层面的代理。
Like, we are not an application level agent.
我们不会去构建一个像‘嘿’这样的代理。
We're not gonna build an agent that says, like, hey.
我不想说永远不，但你知道，举个例子，跟我们非常接近的那种，不是我们马上要做的。
Here's a I don't wanna say never say never, but like, you know, be an example that is like really adjacent to us that is that's not something that we're gonna be building immediately.
就像，去搞清楚买什么股票来投资。
It's like, go figure out like what stocks to buy to go invest in.
就像，所有在Arc上发行的这些资产。
Like, all of these assets that are issued on Arc.
如果你过来说，‘嘿，这是我的投资组合，这是我的投资期限。’
If you come in and you say like, Hey, this is my portfolio, this my sort of like investment horizon.
我相当确定，会有比Circle能构建的、正在构建的或计划构建的更好的代理出现。
I am pretty sure there are better agents out there and like what Circle can build or like is building or plans to build that will get built.
所以，我对去构建那个代理不感兴趣。
And so, like, I'm not interested in going and building that agent.
我感兴趣的是构建所有那些用来发现那个代理的基础组件，以及所有那些用来验证这个代理来自一个良好的经济行为者、不会窃取我的数据、不会试图通过直接方式或社会工程学等手段来攻击我的基础组件。
What I am interested in building is like all the primitives that are needed to discover that agent, all the primitives that are needed to like approve that this agent comes from a good economic actor who is not going to steal my data and like, is going to try to hack me using whether it's like directly or through social engineering or something else.
而且我希望能够向用户证明这个代理有出色的工作记录。
And I wanna be able to sort of prove to the user that this agent has an excellent work history.
比如，他们为其他一万个用户做过类似的事情，并且取得了非常好的结果。
Like, they are like, you know, they have sort of done this for 10,000 other users and they have had excellent results.
所有这些基础组件，我们都想构建。
All of those primitives, we wanna build.
这意味着现在代理可以生活在Arc上，在Arc上进行交易，随着他们在Arc上积累历史，他们基本上能够向用户证明自己是良好的经济行为者。
That means that now the agents can live on Arc, they can transact on Arc, and as they build history on Arc, they are able to essentially prove to users that they are good economic actors.
他们也能向其他代理证明这一点。
And they're able to prove to other agents as well.
因为不只是用户会在意这些。
Like, it's not just users who will care about this.
如果我有一个代理，我让它去雇佣另一个代理，它有充分的动机去确保它雇佣的那个代理是好的，具备所有这些特性。
If I have an agent and I tell them to go hire another agent, they have good incentives to make sure that that agent that they are hiring is a good agent, has all of these properties.
所以，为了这个目标，我们正在搭建一个代理市场。
So, towards that, are building an agent marketplace.
我们正在构建一个代理信誉系统。
We are building an agent reputation system.
我们正在让代理之间能够进行极小额的支付，比如几乎是一百万分之一美元，用的是Circle Nano支付。
We are building ways for agents to pay each other very small amounts of money, like almost a millionth of a dollar using Circle Nano payments.
我们也在让代理能够获得信用，比如如果你能证明你能经营一本账，而且这本账是盈利的，那你怎么获得信用呢？
We're making it so that agents can get credit and like make sure that like if you are able to prove that you are able to run a book and that is a profitable book, like how should you get credit?
你知道，当你刚开始的时候，你是一分钱都没有的。
Like, you know, and when you start up, like you have no money.
作为一个代理，你怎么才能进入这个金钱体系呢？
How are you supposed to on ramp as an agent into the money?
所以，所有这些底层的问题，我们都会解决，或者说我们希望在未来一两年内解决。
So like all of those problems at the lower level we will solve, or we are hoping to solve over the next like a year or two.
而在这之上的问题，就是应用本身，我觉得这些会有其他人来构建。
And the problems on top of that are like the applications themselves, which I think others will build.
而且我觉得这些应用不只是金融类的。
And I don't think those applications are just financial applications.
可以是各种各样的应用，比如旅行、电商、教育等等。所有这些活动的基础都是价值交换，而这种交换必须可信、必须最终完成、还必须快速。
This could be any number of applications, travel, commerce, education, like all of these, The underpinning for all of these activities is value exchange, and that value exchange that needs to happen needs to be trustworthy, and that value exchange needs to be final, and that value exchange needs to be fast.
这些都是我们要实现的目标。
All of that are gonna enable.
我想聊聊代币化股票，因为这也是目前加密行业正在发生的现象。
I wanna turn to the world of tokenized stocks because that's also a phenomenon that is happening in the crypto industry right now.
你们是不是打算跟纳斯达克或纽约证券交易所竞争？毕竟这两个市场都是以美元计价的。
Are you guys going after trying to compete with things like the Nasdaq or the New York Stock Exchange in the sense that, you know, those two things are dollar denominated.
而通过Arc，我们有一个以美元计价的区块链。
With Arc, we have a dollar denominated blockchain.
区块链是资产交易账本。
Blockchains are asset transaction ledgers.
你们是想在代币化股票的流动性和交易量方面去竞争，还是在这方面比较被动？
Are you guys trying to go and be competitive in the world of liquidity and trading volume for tokenized stocks, or are you more passive on that front?
我们希望这些应用能使用我们的服务。
We want those applications to use us.
就是说，我们不是交易所。
Like, we are not the exchange.
我们不是交易所，我们是基础设施，你可以在这个基础上搭建交易所。
We are not the we are the infrastructure on which you can build an exchange.
我们是结算的基础设施。
We are the infrastructure for settlement.
所以，我觉得这很明显。
We So, I think that's fairly obvious.
我觉得这没什么秘密可言。
I think there's no secret there.
我们不会去竞争交易所市场。
We're not competing in the exchange market.
我们希望这些参与者用Arc来做结算，进行复杂的金融交易，把这些金融交易表达成智能合约，并且这些都在Arc上运行。
We want these actors to use Arc to do settlement and to enter into complex financial transactions, have those financial transactions be expressed as smart contracts and have those be on Arc.
这是我们的期望。
That's our hope.
那么，我们是否希望更多这样的真实世界资产发行方加入Arc？
So, do we want more of these real world asset issuers on Arc?
当然。
Absolutely.
我们正在积极争取他们。
We're going after them.
我们也在努力解决他们可能遇到的问题，无论是核心链功能方面的，还是他们试图解决的流动性问题。
And we're trying to solve for problems they may have, whether it is like core chain features that they have or whether it's liquidity issues that they are trying to solve for.
也许他们担心的是USDC的出入金问题。
Maybe it's like USDC on off ramp issues that they are concerned about.
有时候这些出入金问题还和地域问题结合在一起，比如有人说，嘿，我在欧盟或日本做这笔特定交易时遇到了出入金问题。
Maybe sometimes these on off ramp issues are combined with geographical issues being like, Hey, I have an on off ramp issue in the EU or in Japan as I'm trying to do this specific trade.
这该怎么解决？
How does that work?
不过我觉得，这会有两种版本。
But like, I do think like there will be There's two versions of this.
一种是，嘿，我已经在做某项活动了。
One is like, Hey, I'm doing an activity already.
我能不能把它搬到链上？
Can I do it on chain?
因为这样一来，我就能实现全天候的运作，而且参与方还是原来那些，不需要新增任何参与者，因为现在有了这个全天候的基础设施。
Because I can then unlock 20 fourseven activity with all the same actors, with no new actors participating, because now you have this 20 fourseven infrastructure.
另一种是，我有很多新的需求可以带到这个资产上，因为我可以让这个资产在全球范围内被更多人接触到。
And then there is the piece which is, well, I have like all this new demand that I can bring to this asset because I can open up access to this asset all over the board.
而USDC同时具备这两种特性。
And USDC has both properties.
比如，如果你在美国，你可以使用银行账户。
Like, you can if you're in The US, you have access to bank accounts.
但如果你持有USDC，你们之间可以全天候进行结算。
But if you have USDC, you can settle with each other twenty four seven.
但因为你有USDC，你现在实际上可以把USDC的使用权给到新兴市场的人、欧盟的人、南美的人。
But because you have USDC, you can now actually give back people people who are in emerging markets, people in The EU, people in South America, access to USDC.
我觉得股票也会是这样，对吧？
Think the same thing will be true for stocks, right?
我觉得在美国，人们可能会转到链上，因为他们可以交易更快，更好地管理流动性和风险。
Like I think in The US people will probably move on chain because they can like trade faster and manage their liquidity better, manage risk better.
而在国际上，我觉得会有新的需求进来，因为随着AI在全球普及，世界上应该会有更多公司。
And internationally, I think we will have like new demand coming in Because people who wanna raise money, as AI becomes more proliferated around the world, there should be more companies in the world.
如果世界上有更多公司，因为你可以去雇佣全球各地的经济参与者，那么这些公司对资本形成的需求就会更强。
If there are more companies in the world because you can actually hire, go hire these economic actors around the world, then these companies will have like stronger need for like capital formation.
而这些资本形成，他们不会想发行某种代币或股票来本质上完成资本形成。
And these capital formation, like, well, they won't wanna issue like, you know, some sort of token or some stock to essentially do that capital formation.
而另一端的用户会想获得全球最好的代币或股票，以确保他们投资的钱能获得最好的回报。
And the users on the other side will want to get access to the best tokens or the best stock around the world to make sure that they're getting the, you know, the best outcome for the capital that they're investing.
所以，整个世界的用户能接触到的资产，以及公司能接触到的投资者，都将迎来大爆发。
So, this whole world is about to blow up in terms of what access users have and then what access even the companies have in terms of, like, the investors that they can reach out to.
那关于进入Arc的通道这块，你怎么看？
What about the world of on ramps onto Arc?
我觉得Circle和Arc在这方面有独特的优势，因为Circle拥有
I think Circle and Arc are is uniquely positioned here in that Circle has
一些
some of
最好的银行合作关系，甚至可以说是整个加密货币行业里，在美国国内最好的银行合作关系。
the best banking relationships, if not the best banking relationships in the entire crypto industry domestically inside The United States.
那关于在Arc区块链上建立第一方的入金通道系统，你怎么看？
What what about building, like, kind of like a a first party on ramp system into the Arc blockchain.
而且还可以扩展到美国以外的地区，让我们能通过直接的银行合作关系，把非美元稳定币直接引入Arc。
And then also even extending that into non US jurisdictions where we can get like non US dollar stablecoins with direct banking relationships right onto Arc.
因为入金通道的问题在加密货币领域从来就没有在大规模上真正解决过。
Because the on on ramp problem has never truly been solved at a large scale in crypto.
而且，如果你想把Circle的本质提炼出来，它其实就是最好的入金通道。
And, really, as if you wanted to distill down what Circle is, it's like the best on ramp ever.
对，这就是USDC的本质。
Like, that is what USDC is.
它就像是银行美元和Circle美元之间最好、最高效、最大的通道。
It's like the best highest, biggest conduit between bank dollars and Circle dollars.
那如果我们要打造最丰富、最完善的入金通道呢？
What about building out, like, the richest, best set of on ramps?
你们有没有考虑过这个方向？
Is that something on your guys' radar?
其实从机构入金的角度来看，你说得对。
I mean, like, from an institutional on ramp perspective, we have you're right.
我们确实是整个生态系统里最好的出入金通道。
Like, we are the best on off ramps for the whole ecosystem.
前几天我正好在看数据，我们统计了一下，USDC存续期间，我们处理的出金量已经接近9000亿美元了。
I was just looking at something the other day and we counted like almost more than $900,000,000,000 of like off ramping that we have done over the span of USDC.
所以，这意味着有这么多人通过USDC入金，而USDC在整个生命周期里，出入金总量差不多接近一万亿美元了。
So, like And that means that that many people had sort of like USDC, that on ramped into USDC, and that's almost a trillion dollars of like USDC that is on off ramp, the lifespan of USDC.
所以，是的，我们确实有很好的机构级进出金通道。
So, yes, we do have good institutional grade on off ramps.
目前用户主要通过交易所来使用这些进出金通道。
Users currently get access to these on off ramps using primarily through exchanges.
我想大家都明白这一点。
I think everybody understands that.
我们正在开发更多面向零售用户的进出金通道。
We are working on more retail focused on off ramps.
它们会是Arc发布的一部分，实际上已经是了。
They will be part of, like, they are part of the Arc launch.
未来还会有更多进展，确保其他市场的用户也能使用这些进出金通道。
There's more coming in terms of making sure that users in other markets can also get access to these on off ramps.
从流动性角度来看，如果你想把资金换成当地的稳定币，关键问题是流动性怎么运作。
Then from a liquidity perspective, like, I think if you're getting, trying to on off ramp into on ramp into a local stablecoin, the question is like, how does that liquidity work?
在这方面，我们在全球范围内提供流动性方面有丰富的经验。
And there we have a ton of experience in provisioning liquidity around the world.
我们清楚提供这种流动性的成本结构。
We understand the cost structure of provisioning that liquidity.
我们还聊了一下稳定币汇率，也就是把当地货币换成USDC或其他稳定币的能力。
We also, we talked a little bit about stable FX, which is our ability to sort of swap these local currencies into USDC or some other stablecoin.
我们正在和做市商合作，他们可以在做市方面去创造这些市场。
We're working with market makers who can, on the maker side, who can like go make these markets.
我们也在和吃单方合作，确保这些吃单方基本上代表终端用户。
We're also working with takers to make sure that like, and these takers essentially represent end users.
所以，这些都是大型金融市场。
So, these are large financial markets.
大家都知道外汇市场的规模，每天交易量都是万亿级别的。
I think everybody knows the size of FX markets, like it's in the trillions traded every day.
美元作为报价资产，地位相当主导。
And the dollar is like pretty dominant in terms of like, as a quoting asset.
所以，我们只是刚开始摸索这一切，对吧？
So, we're just on day one of like trying to figure out all of that, right?
而且这些东西很多都不是交易所。
And a lot of these things are not exchanges.
这些是私有的流动性池，用于法币进出通道，我们正在连接所有这些私有池，确保它们能获得Arc原生的流动性。
These are private pools that operate for like these on off ramps, like And so, are connecting into all of these private pools and making sure that these private pools have access to liquidity that is Arc native.
然后我们在Arc上有一个核心协议，让人们可以去访问这些流动性池。
And then we have like a core protocol on Arc that allows for people to sort of like go and access these liquidity pools.
所以这不仅仅是发行，也不仅仅是确保Arc有最终确定性，还要去寻找这些流动性池，连接它们，并确保这些池子的运营方也能使用Circle Mint这样的产品——这是Circle的一个产品，让人们可以进来获取USDC，并实现法币与USDC之间的进出。
So it's not just about the issuance, it's not just making sure that like, you know, Arc has finality, It's also like going and finding these liquidity pools and then connecting into those liquidity pools and making sure that those folks also have access to things like Circle Mint, which is a product from Circle, which allows people to come in and get access to USDC and get on off ramps into USDC.
所以这就是为什么全栈很重要，也就是说，它不只是另一个L1，还是说它上面有应用？
So that's where the full stack argument matters, which is to say like, yes, is it just not is is it like another L1 or is it like is is does it have applications on top of it?
当然，它上面有应用，也就是说，这些应用包括其他稳定币、交易这些稳定币的市场，以及让这些市场得以存在的流动性池，还有真正让这些资本池成功并盈利所需的Circle的其他产品。
And absolutely, it has applications on top it, which is to say the applications are other stablecoins, the marketplaces to trade those stablecoins, and the pools of liquidity that will make it possible for those marketplaces to exist and the additional Circle products that are needed to actually enable those pools of the pools of capital to be successful and like be profitable.
所有这些都需要到位，所有这些都需要合规，所有这些都需要得到监管机构的认可。
All of that needs to fall into place and all of that needs to be compliant and all of that needs to be like, you know, be okay with the regulators and all of that.
这就是Circle进入这个领域时的价值所在。
So that's Circle's value as it gets into this game.
在代理商务之后，我觉得外汇是你们Circle下一个最大的金矿，你们正好就在旁边。
Right after Agentic Commerce, I feel like foreign for FX is, like, the next biggest golden goose that you guys at Circle is really just right next to.
我不知道Circle有没有打算进入这些相邻的经济领域。
I don't know if Circle has intent to go into, like, adjacent economies.
我知道有欧元。
I know that there's the euro.
Circle已经有欧元产品了。
Circle already has, a euro product.
但我觉得，当所有法定货币都以高保真度代币化，并且集中在一个地方时，这个图景才算完整。
But really, I think the picture gets completed when basically all of the fiat currencies are tokenized in a high fidelity way, all in one place.
我不知道Circle是不是想在每个有广泛使用的法定货币的地区都扮演Circle的角色，但这似乎非常接近Circle已经在做的事情，而且也非常有价值。
I don't know if circle is trying to go and do the role of Circle in every single jurisdiction that has, like, a well used fiat currency, but that seems very close to what Circle is already doing and also very valuable.
Circle和Arc是怎么考虑这个问题的？
How is Circle and Arc thinking about that?
我同意，这非常有价值。
I agree it's very valuable.
我觉得这就是事情应该运作的方式。
I think it is it is how how things should work.
但现在并不是这样运作的。
They don't work like that today.
比如说，现在有几件事正在发生。
Like, so here are a few things that are happening.
第一，Genius法案将在1月生效。
One is genius goes into effect in January.
所以一旦Genius生效，我们就会有一个由美联储监管的监管框架。
Like, so once Genius goes into effect, we have a regulatory framework that is like is being overseen by the feds.
这对其他国家意味着什么？
What does that mean for other countries?
其他国家都在等美国的法律最终确定，这样他们才能确定自己国家的稳定币法律。
The other countries are waiting for, like, The US laws to be final so they can finalize how they will do stablecoin laws in their country.
而且世界上绝大多数国家都是这样。
And so this is true for vast majority of the world.
所以，一旦Genius生效，我们预计全球的监管框架会演变，以支持更多本地稳定币。
So, one, once genius happens, we expect the regulatory frameworks across the world to evolve to support more local stablecoins.
第二，我认为我们在全球190多个国家运营稳定币是不现实的。
Second, I don't think it is feasible for us to go operate stablecoins in like, you know, over 190 countries around the world.
这就是世界上国家的数量。
Like that's the number of countries in the world.
我们在两个大市场有稳定币。
We have, like, stablecoins in the two large markets.
我们有美国USDC和欧盟的。
We have The U USDC and we have the EU.
目前，在发行方面，比如Circle发行稳定币，我认为我们会保持现状。
And for now, we're gonna when it comes to issuance, like, Circle issuing the stablecoins, I think we're gonna stay with that.
我们会与其他稳定币合作，因为这些本地参与者熟悉监管机构，了解当地法律，了解当地用户需求，在货币交易商方面有良好的市场关系，并且他们知道如何让经济运作起来。
We're gonna go partner with other stablecoins because these local actors, know the regulators well, they understand local law well, they understand local user needs well, they have good relationships in the market when it comes to, like, money traders, and they understand, like, how how make the economics work.
我们会继续与他们合作。
We're gonna keep working with them.
我们的价值在于把这些流动性池连接起来，确保我们运行稳定的外汇兑换，这也是Arc的一部分，这样用户进来后可以直接查询这些流动性池，找到他们能得到的最佳汇率，获得他们想要的流动性。
Our value add is going to be connecting these pools of liquidity and making sure that we are running stable FX, which is part of Arc, so that users can come in and they can just go query these pools of liquidity for the best rates that they can get, and they can get the liquidity they want.
目前市场上主要是基于AMM的解决方案，但那里的流动性并不充足。
Currently in the market, there's primarily AMM based solutions for these things and you don't get a lot of liquidity over there.
所以我们在Arc上也有基于AMM的解决方案，但RFQ系统能确保流动性存在，并保证交易成功。
So we have AMM based solutions on Arc as well, but an RFQ based system, which allows for this liquidity to be there and to make sure that the transaction is successful.
也就是说，你不会出现投入美元却拿不到当地稳定币，或者反过来那种情况。
As in, like, you don't, like, put up your dollars and not get, like, the local stablecoin or the other way around.
我们重点要做的就是确保整个协议以无需许可的方式运行。
Just making sure that that whole protocol works in a permissionless way is what we're trying to focus on.
Nikhil，今天是上线日。
Nikhil, so today is launch day.
你们短期内重点关注什么？
What are you guys focused on in the very short term?
就是这周末和下周末。
So the end of this week, next week as well.
你们最近的首要任务是什么，要让Arc顺利上线并取得成功？
What what are your near your nearest term priorities that you guys have to get Arc up and running and successful?
我觉得，我们可能会去作战室待着，确保一切运转正常。
I mean, look, it is we're gonna probably go to the war room and hang out there and make sure that things are working correctly.
这算是松了一口气，因为我们一直在忙这个。
It's a little bit of a relief because we've been working on it.
我觉得Circle早就想投资这个领域了。
I think Circle has wanted invest in this space for a long time.
我们做这个L1项目，到现在差不多有十八个月了。
We have been working on this L1 project for, I think close to eighteen months at this point.
所以，我想我们可能会花一两个小时，喝杯啤酒，休息一下，然后再回去干活，也就是说，我们想确保能服务好用户。
So, I think we might take an hour or two to just like have a beer and like take a break, and then get back to it, which is to say that like, we wanna make sure that like, you know, we are serving our users.
我预计用户会开始进来，在Arc上进行交易。
Like, I'm expecting users to come in and start transacting on Arc.
我们要确保交易正常、隐私保护正常、稳定外汇正常，机构级RWA也有足够的流动性。
We wanna make sure that like, you know, transactions are working, privacy is working, stable FX is working, like the institutional RWAs have the liquidity they have.
我们在第一天就承诺了Arc会提供很多功能。
Like, we've promised a lot in terms of, like, how much functionality is gonna be available on Arc on day one.
所以我们要确保所有这些功能都能立刻上线，并且运行得跟用户预期的一样。
So just making sure that all of that functionality is immediately available and is working as users expect.
而且不只是对我们自己，对开发者、对用户都要好用。
And it's working not just for us, it is working for developers, it's working for users.
接下来的三个月，我们有一个非常丰富的路线图，包括新的隐私功能。
Over the next three months, we have a very rich roadmap in terms of like new privacy features.
我们还会推出一些新的智能体功能。
We have like new agent features coming out.
随着我们这边的事情逐渐成熟，我们可能会增加更多的验证节点。
We probably add more validators to the set as the things mature on our side.
然后最终，我们也在计划推出权益证明。
And so and then eventually we're planning for a proof of stake launch as well.
所以我们也要确保自己为此做好准备。
So we wanna make sure that we are ready for that as well.
所以，这些就是我们接下来要做的事情。
So, like, those are the things that we're gonna be working on.
问个问题。
Quick question.
杰里米有养宠物吗？
Does Jeremy have any pets?
你知道吗？
Do you know?
你是说动物吗？
As animals?
比如，他有养狗或者猫吗？
And, like, does he does he have a dog or a cat?
他从来没跟我提过。
He's never mentioned it to me.
我认识他都已经五年了。
I've known him for five years now.
好的。
So Okay.
你为什么这么问？
Why do you ask?
没有宠物。
No pets.
好的。
Okay.
嗯，因为通常创始人的宠物名字是挺热门的模因币目标。
Well, because usually the name of a founder's pet is a pretty hot meme coin target.
所以我知道你们在尝试做……
And so I you I I know you guys are trying to do
我相信你们能做到。
I'm sure you can do that.
比如，智能体商务之类的，但在Arc上最先出现的会是模因币。
Like, Agentic Commerce and all that kind of stuff, but the first thing that's gonna happen on Arc is Meme Coins.
所以如果杰里米有宠物，我想知道它的名字，但也许我得去别的地方找找看。
And so if Jeremy's got a pet, I want to know its name, but maybe I'll have to dig around in a in a different location for that.
我很确定你可以发推文给他，或者直接私信他，他会回复你的。
I'm very sure if you can you can tweet at him or, like, you can DM him and I'll get back to you.
而且杰里米挺开放的，他在推特上也很活跃。
And Like Jeremy's pretty open and Jeremy's pretty active on Twitter.
或者说，X，抱歉。
So, or X, sorry.
而且杰里米很喜欢互联网。
And and so and Jeremy loves the Internet.
我是说，当然。
Like, I mean, like Sure.
杰里米是个老互联网创业者。
Jeremy's an old Internet founder.
他之前已经创办过两家互联网公司了。
Like, he's sort of created two Internet companies before this.
所以我觉得，虽然杰里米穿西装很好看，我也很喜欢，但他骨子里其实是个互联网人，你懂吧？
So I think, like, while Jeremy presents well in a suit, which I love, he's truly at heart like a a person of the internet, like, you know?
所以，是的。
And so Yeah.
我觉得他对这一切都很期待，这是我的看法。
I think he's looking forward to all of it is is, like, my take on it.
他有点，他，他对这件事超级兴奋。
He's sort of he's he is so excited about this.
他，他一直想做这件事，已经想了一段时间了。
He he has been wanting this wanting to work on this for some time.
而且，这件事也经历了一些，你懂的，特定的过程。
And like, it has taken a certain sort of like, you know, certain path.
比如，我们去年上市了。
Like, we went public last year.
所以，我们走到这一步其实有点曲折，但我觉得他非常高兴能走到这里。
So it has taken us somewhat, like, you know, circuitous path to get here, but, like, I think he's very excited to be here.
而且我敢肯定，他可能会自己公布这个宠物的名字。
And I'm sure, like, he'll probably reveal the name of this pet himself.
但尼基尔真的很棒。
But Nikhil is awesome.
就是这样。
Like that.
尼基尔，这次访谈非常棒。
Nikhil, this has been great.
感谢你来到节目。
Thanks for coming on the show.
谢谢，大卫。
Thanks, David.
Bankless Nation的听众们都知道怎么回事。
Bankless Nation guys know the deal.
加密货币有风险，但风险还不够大。
Crypto is risky, but not risky enough.
机构已经入场了，所以我们要走得更远。
The institutions have landed, so we're going even further west.
这就是前沿。
This is the frontier.
这不是适合所有人的，但我们很高兴你能和我们一起踏上Bankless的旅程。
It's not for everyone, but we are glad you're with us on the Bankless journey.
非常感谢。
Thanks a lot.
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