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以太坊基金会发布了一份使命文件，阐述了其价值观和方法。
The Ethereum Foundation dropped a a mandate document describing its values, describing its approach.
这引发了一些反应，这么说吧。
This caused a reaction, let's say.
有些人非常喜欢它。
Some some people loved it.
有些人则非常讨厌它。
Some people hated it.
今天我们将会讨论它，并分享我们的看法，因为又到了《Bankless Takes》节目时间。
We're gonna discuss it today and give our takes because it is time for another Bankless Takes episode.
大卫，当我们觉得有什么值得讨论的事情时，就会做这些内容。
David, we do these things whenever we're feeling, what, like, motivated that there's something to discuss.
《Bankless Takes》节目的更新频率是怎样的？
What's the what's the cadence of Bankless Takes episodes?
是的，当有你我都能参与、贡献或发表看法的讨论发生时。
Yeah, when there when there is a conversation happening that you and I are like a part of or can contribute to or otherwise have takes about.
以太坊是这个话题的常客。
Ethereum is a very frequent topic of this.
我们过去也做过其他类似的节目。
We've done other ones in the past as well.
我认为这些节目最常见的起源是EF的某个人，通常是Vitalik，发布了一篇博客文章，然后大家都在讨论，我们自然也就跟着讨论，这正是这次发生的情况。GALAXY是数字资产与下一代基础设施交汇的平台，为机构提供端到端服务。
I think maybe the most common reason or, like, way that these episodes come about is somebody in the EF, usually Vitalik, releases a blog post, and everyone's talking about it and then therefore so do we, which is exactly what happened this GALAXY operates where digital assets and next generation infrastructure come together, serving institutions end to end.
在市场层面，GALAXY是领先的机构平台，提供现货、衍生品、结构性产品、DeFi借贷、投资银行和融资服务。
On the market side, GALAXY is a leading institutional platform providing access to spot, derivatives, structured products, DEFI lending, investment banking, and financing.
GALAXY拥有超过1600个交易对手，帮助机构应对市场周期的每个阶段。
With more than 1,600 trading counterparties, GALAXY helps institutions navigate every phase of the market cycle.
该平台还通过主动管理策略以及机构级质押和区块链基础设施，支持长期资产配置者。
The platform also supports long term allocators through actively managed strategies and institutional grade staking and blockchain infrastructure.
这种规模是真实的。
That scale is real.
GALAXY平台上的资产超过120亿美元，在2025年底平均贷款规模达到180亿美元，体现了生态系统中深厚的信赖。
GALAXY has over $12,000,000,000 in assets on the platform and averaged a $1,800,000,000 loan book in late twenty twenty five, reflecting deep trust across the ecosystem.
除了数字资产，银河还在为人工智能驱动的未来构建基础设施。
Beyond digital assets, Galaxy is also building infrastructure for an AI powered future.
其海力斯数据中心园区专为人工智能和高性能计算而建，拥有超过1.6吉瓦的获批电力容量，使其成为同类中规模最大的站点之一。
Its Helios Data Center campus is purpose built for AI and high performance computing with more than 1.6 gigawatts of approved power capacity, making it one of the largest sites of its kind.
从全球市场到为人工智能准备的数据中心，银河正在端到端地服务数字资产生态系统。
From global markets to AI ready data centers, Galaxy is serving the digital asset ecosystem end to end.
访问 galaxy.com/bankless 了解银河，或点击节目说明中的链接。
Explore Galaxy at galaxy.com/bankless, or click the link in the show notes.
为什么管理投资仍然意味着要同时操作多个应用程序、账户和货币？
Why does managing investments still mean juggling multiple apps, accounts, and currencies?
加密货币全天候交易，股票、ETF和商品正逐步链上化，但大多数平台仍把一切分隔开来，使多元化变得不必要的繁琐。
Crypto trades around the clock stocks, ETFs, and commodities are moving on chain, yet most platforms still keep everything split apart, turning diversification into unnecessary friction.
BITGET 通过其通用交易平台，带来了一种全新的体验。
BITGET is delivering a different kind of experience with its universal exchange.
在一个平台上，用户可以访问加密货币、代币化股票、ETF和其他资产，所有交易均直接使用USDT进行。
One platform where users can access crypto, tokenized stocks, ETFs, and other assets in the same place, all traded directly using USDT.
无需频繁转账，无需货币兑换，只有一个专为当今市场实际运行方式打造的单一账户。
No constant transfers, no currency conversions, just a single account built for how markets actually move today.
加密货币与传统金融之间的界限正在持续模糊，BITGET的目标很简单。
The line between crypto and traditional finance continues to blur, BITGET's goal is straightforward.
让交易和投资变得更简单，而不是变得比必要更复杂。
Make trading and investing simpler, not more complicated than it needs to be.
点击节目说明中的链接了解更多。
Learn by clicking in the link in the show notes.
这不是投资建议。
This is not investment advice.
是的。
Yeah.
这些很多都与以太坊有关，比如说。
A lot of these are Ethereum related, let's say.
我其实非常好奇，在这场对话中你的看法是什么，以及它如何与我的看法形成对比，看看我们之间是否存在差异，或者是否观点大致相似。
I'm actually very curious in this conversation what your opinion is and how that contrasts with my opinion to see, like, whether there's a delta on that or not or whether we have somewhat similar opinion.
但跟我们说说发生了什么。
But tell us what happened.
通常不会有这么大的差异。
Usually don't have that much of delta.
没错。
That's true.
但咱们来深入探讨一下。
But like, let's tease it.
这可能会是一场大冲突，Bankless Nation。
Let's this could be a big clash, Bankless Nation.
好吧。
Alright.
可能要正式开打了。
Could be the Gloves are on.
是的，手套要摘掉了。
Yeah, gloves are coming off.
好了，大卫和瑞安这次要干架了。
Alright, David and Ryan are gonna brawl on this one.
事情是这样的，以太坊基金会发布了一份他们称为EF指令的文件。
What happened was the foundation, the Ethereum Foundation released what they call an EF mandate.
EF指令是什么？
What was the EF mandate?
最初是一条推文，然后是一篇链接到38页文档的博客。
It was first a tweet, then a blog that linked to a 38 page document.
那38页内容实际的文字可能只有三分之一左右。
It's not 38 pages of writing is probably a third of that.
里面有很多图片，还有很多空白页、标题页，非常注重美学。
A lot of art, a lot of lot of just like, you know, blank pages, just title pages, very aesthetic.
这次在美学上真是把所有旋钮都调到最高了。
Aesthetically really like turned up the dials on this one.
是的。
Yes.
这个理念是，EF授权文件是由EF为EF制定的，但他们将其公开发布，以便任何对以太坊更广泛社区动态感兴趣的人能够跟进。
The idea, it was stated that the EF mandate is a document by the EF for the EF, but they are publishing it, you know, publicly so that anyone who is interested in following along, you know, the broader Ethereum community
可以跟进。
can follow along.
至于这个组织本身，它也是为‘是’而设的。
So as for the organization itself, it was for Yes.
一份内部指导文件。
The An internal guiding document.
但随后
But then
同时也面向旅程中的自主个体。
also, it said also for fellow self sovereign individuals on the journey.
因此，以太坊社区的人们，以及这份文件的次要受众，你可以说，
So people in the Ethereum community as well as the secondary audience for this, you'd say,
是的，没错。
Yeah, that's right.
没错。
That's right.
而且这份文件的核心是两个支柱。
And like the core of the document are two pillars.
有一个技术支柱，阐述了‘作物’这个概念。
There's a technical pillar which outlined this idea of crops.
我觉得‘作物’之前并不存在。
I don't think crops had been a thing.
我认为这份文件首次提出了‘作物’的概念。
I think this document introduced crops.
对吗？
Is that correct?
我觉得是的。
I think so.
我以前从来没听说过‘作物’。
I've never heard of crops.
我还没有被广泛普及。
I've not been popularized.
直到现在才被广泛普及。
It's not been popularized until now.
现在以太坊的每个人都知道CROPS是什么了。
Now everyone in Ethereum knows what CROPS are.
这是一个缩写，我们应该说CROPS。
It's an acronym, we should say CROPS.
大卫大卫一会儿会给我们这个定义。
David David will give us the definition in a minute.
是的。
Yes.
而两个支柱中的第二个是社会支柱。
And then the second pillar of the two is the social pillar.
所以是技术支柱和社会支柱。
So the technical pillar and the social pillar.
社会支柱实际上就是基金会如何行事。
The social pillar is really just how the foundation conducts itself.
以及如何指导自身的决策。
And like guides its own decision making.
就像如果你想了解以太坊基金会认为自己应该具备怎样的精神一样。
Just like if you want to learn about what the ethos of the EF thinks it should have.
是的。
Yeah.
这就是它的目的。
That's what it's for.
我认为是CROPS。
I think CROPS.
CROPS才是这份文件的亮点。
CROPS, will say was the star of the document.
对，我也这么认为。
And Yeah, I think so.
这曾是主要的强调点。
That was the big emphasis.
CROPS，即抗审查、开源、私密和安全。
CROPS, censorship resistance, open source, private, and secure.
因此，这是一个被浓缩为缩写的指导原则，说明了以太坊基金会对自己使命的界定，以及如何引导以太坊协议。
And so this is a guiding principle boiled down into an acronym about what the EF, its mandate for itself about how to guide the Ethereum protocols.
所以如果你没听清，这些就是字母的含义。
So those are the letters if you didn't catch us.
所以CR就是CR，CROPS中的O代表开源，P代表私密。
So the CR is the CR and CROPS and the O is for open source and the P is for private privacy.
S代表安全。
And S is for security secure.
是的。
Yes.
在这份文件中，明确指出如果以太坊基金会将CROPS置于一切之上。
And in this document, the document stated that if the EF puts CROPS above everything else.
因此，CROPS不仅重要，而且是最重要的事情。
So that's not only are the CROPS important, but it is the most important thing.
是的。
Yeah.
如果我猜你是在问EF的北极星是什么，而他们说这也是以太坊北极星的一部分，即它存在的原因，那很可能就是CROPS。
If I guess if you're asking what the North Star for the EF is, and they're saying this is part of the North Star for Ethereum too, so why it exists, is is probably CROPS.
这些正是它希望内置的功能集。
Those are the feature set that it wants to to bake in.
因此，抗审查性意味着他们对此进行了定义。
So censorship resistance means they define it.
任何行为者都不能有选择地排除有效用途或破坏功能，包括通过获得任何关键机制的持久性、非竞争性控制。
No actor can selectively exclude valid use or break functionality, including by gaining durable, noncompetitive control of any critical mechanisms.
开源意味着源代码公开，没有特权代码，没有任何隐藏内容。
Open source means open source code, no privileged code, nothing hidden.
一切都是透明的。
It's all transparent.
隐私意味着用户数据不会超出必要范围或违背其利益而被暴露。
Privacy means user data is not exposed beyond necessity or against their interest.
对它们而言安全，意味着系统必须准确实现其宣称的功能，不多也不少。
And secure to them, mean, things must do what they claim they do no more and no less.
我的意思是，这些定义都相当标准。
I mean, pretty standard definitions of all of these things.
这里没什么令人惊讶的地方。
No big surprises here.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
这很有趣，瑞安。
It is interesting, Ryan.
实际上，如果你打开文档并用Ctrl+F搜索‘North Star’，会发现它只出现了一次。
Actually, if you go into the document and go command f north star, there is a it shows up once.
好的。
Okay.
它说，北极星是去中介化。
It says, the North Star is disintermediation.
哦，是的。
Oh, yes.
我其实对这一点有自己的看法。
I actually had a take on that.
哦，我们稍后会谈到这个。
Oh, we'll get to that.
不过，这份文件并不是以太坊的路线图。
What this document was not though, this document was not a roadmap for Ethereum.
它也不是贾斯汀·德雷克提出的那种路线图。
It wasn't the straw map that Justin Drake came out with.
它也不是一张组织架构图。
It was not an org chart.
它也不是财务数据。
It wasn't financials.
它也不是任何类似以太坊的市场或产品信息。
It was not any, like, Ethereum marketing or product information.
它不是那种你可以发给看好ETH的朋友，让他们
It wasn't anything you could, you know, send to your friend who's bullish on ETH to to get them
更加看好ETH的东西。
To make them further bullish on ETH.
对。
Right.
它更像是一个内部文件，可以说，是EF的使命宣言。
It very much was a internal type of document, almost like a mission statement type of document, I'd say, for for the EF Yeah.
针对以太坊的。
For Ethereum.
如果开设一门关于以太坊的300级别课程，这份文件就会被纳入课程内容。
It would be in a 300 level course about what Ethereum is for this document would be in that curriculum.
文档中反复使用的一个词，不知道你有没有搜索过，就是‘自我主权’这个词。
One of the words that was used repeatedly, don't know if you've done a search for this, but was the word, the term self sovereignty.
我认为这是从这份文件中得出的重要结论之一：以太坊的目的是什么，以太坊基金会将保护的是用户的自我主权。
I think that was one of the big takeaways from this that what is Ethereum for and what will the EF protect is self sovereignty of users.
实际上，这份文件的第一页——可能是我最喜欢的部分——简要总结了以太坊究竟是什么。
Actually, on the first page of this document, which was maybe my favorite part, is kind of a summary of what Ethereum actually is.
我认为他们提到了自我主权。
And I think they they mentioned self sovereignty.
他们还提到了这一点，大卫，看到这个我非常高兴。
They also mentioned this, David, which I was overjoyed to see.
以太坊是一种价值储存和货币，同时也是一种应用程序。
Ether is a store of value and money that also happens to be an application.
未来会有更多更多的应用，但货币是以太坊的第一个应用。
There's gonna be many many more applications, but money was is the first application for Ethereum.
对我来说，这是我一直没听过以太坊基金会说过的话。
This to me is something I have never heard the EF say Yeah.
这明确地、绝对没有出现在任何文件中。
As explicitly and certainly not in a any document.
我的意思是，似乎有一些以太坊社区成员说过：嘿。
I mean, it has felt like there have been members of the Ethereum community that have said, hey.
就说这是钱吧。
Just say eat this money.
说它是一种价值储存资产。
Say it's a store of value asset.
求你了。
Please.
求你了，就直接说吧。
Please please just say it.
就说
Just say
它。
it.
我们在说这一点。
We're saying it.
我们是的。
We're Mhmm.
把它视为如此。
View it as such.
很明显，以太坊经济和去中心化金融（DeFi）都将它视为如此。
The it's very clear the Ethereum economy views it as such, and so does DEFI decentralized finance.
你们为什么这么说？
Why did you guys say it?
嗯，这是他们在说这一点。
Well, this is them saying it.
是的。
Mhmm.
所以我很高兴在以太坊定义的第一页就看到了这一点。
So I was happy to see that on the very first page under a definition of what is Ethereum.
以太币是一个应用程序。
Well, Ether is an app.
它是以太坊上的一个价值存储应用。
It's a store of value app on Ethereum.
这几乎是为数不多的几次，以太坊社区能够反过来影响以太坊基金会，并促使基金会改变其立场。
This is one of the very few times where I we can say that the Ethereum community kind of wagged back at the EF and got the EF to like change its position.
你真的这么认为吗？
Oh, you think so?
实际上我觉得还有很多其他时候，但是
I think there's been a lot of other times actually, but
这绝对是其中最出色的一次。
This is definitely one of the one of the best times.
我们就这么说吧。
We'll say we'll say that.
我是不是得提一下我最大的成就？
I do have to tip my biggest wins?
社区最大的胜利之一。
One of the community's biggest wins.
我确实得向你致敬。
I do have to tip my hat.
我要特别向你致谢，因为我觉得几周前你让维塔利克发了那条推文，现在又过了几周，这已经写进文档里了。
I'll I'll give a tip to the of the hat to you specifically here, Cause I think like it wasn't it was a couple weeks ago where you like got Vitalik to tweet that and now a couple weeks later, now it's in a document.
是的，我认为过去大约五到七年里，这项工作一直在缓慢积累。
Yeah, I I think it's been a slow boil though over the past, you know, probably five to seven years of of work from
是的。
the Yes.
以太坊。
Ethereum.
以太坊，以太坊。
Ethereum Ethereum
基金会的态度可能因此变得更加开放，愿意公开表达这样的观点。
Foundation's neck has probably allowed them to be more open in saying things like this.
而且，这里的证明案例也很重要。
And plus, the proof cases here.
我的意思是，BITALIC 一直认为，只要你赚到了，它就可以成为一种货币。
I mean, BITALIC has always been of the mindset that, yo, it can be a money if you earn it.
如果社区希望它成为一种货币，比如长期保持在2500亿美元左右的规模。
And if the community wants it to be a money, you know, $250,000,000,000 or so and over for a persistent period of time.
这确实是一种价值储存手段。
This is something this is a store of value.
所以是的。
So Yeah.
因为天知道，他不可能通过贴现现金流分析看到价值2500亿美元的ETH。
Because God knows he can't get to a discounted cash flow analysis and see a $250,000,000,000 ETH.
看到这一点很好，而且这就在他们定义以太坊的第一页上。
So that was good to see, and that was on the first page where they defined Ethereum.
他们提到了这一点。
They talked about it.
计算的自我主权，用户拥有不可侵犯的能力。
Self sovereignty of of computation, users having the ability sacrosanct.
自我主权，不可侵犯。
Self sovereignty Sacrosanct.
不可侵犯。
Sacrosanct.
谢谢。
Thank you.
不可侵犯。
Sacrosanct.
你看，‘自我主权’这个词在这第一页就出现了三次。
Look at the word self sovereignty appears like three times just on this this first page.
我统计了一下，这个词在整个文档中出现了将近50次。
I did a command after it appears almost 50 times throughout the whole entire document.
好吧，我认为这是这份文档中最关键的词。
Alright, that was the big takeaway word I think from this doc.
因此，针对EF发布这份文件，人们的看法不一，有的非常乐观，有的悲观，有的则持中间态度。
So in response to the EF releasing this document, there was mixed opinions, some very bullish, some bearish, some in between.
先来看乐观的观点，来自World的莱顿·卡萨克说：
Starting with the bullish takes Layton Cusack over at World.
新的以太坊基金会使命是看涨的。
He goes, the new Ethereum Foundation mandate is bullish.
摒弃过时的公司概念，以绩效指标为区分，拥抱网络的未来，所有价值都源于主权。
Abandoning the antiquated concepts of companies, differentiating on performance metrics, embracing the network future, all value is downstream of sovereignty.
以太坊竞争的对象是比特币和黄金，而不是Tempo和Solana。
Ethereum is competing with Bitcoin and gold, not Tempo and Solana.
来自Wintermute的叶夫根尼也表达了类似的观点。
Yevgeny from Wintermute, he said something similar.
目前，EF是唯一一个既拥有资源又具备网络效应的机构，不仅能延续密码朋克的梦想，还能确保它真正实现。
The EF is currently the only player with both the resources and the network effects to not just keep the cypherpunk dream alive, but to actually make sure it happens.
我绝对认为，我们应该至少有人尝试在宏观层面上这样做，而不是仅仅追求金融应用。
I absolutely think we should have at least somebody at least trying this on a grand scale instead of pursuing financial applications.
我还应该说，他在推文中提出了这个观点。
I should also say he he said he makes this point in his tweet.
这又是关于以太坊基金会的。
This is EF again.
这在短期内会对ETH的价格产生影响吗？
Will this accrue to ETH price wise short term?
肯定不会。
Certainly not.
只有在它自身设定的条件下取得胜利时，才可能在长期内产生影响，而不是因为被传统金融所采纳。
Will it accrue to it long term only if it wins and wins under the conditions it set for itself, not because of it being adopted by TRADFI.
这很有趣。
That's interesting.
也许我们会再回到这个主题。
Maybe we'll come back to that theme.
我认为这是一个主题，你说得对，我们必须在最后再回来讨论一下。
I do think that is a theme that, you're right, we have to come back to and and talk about at the end.
还有来自Bankless嘉宾Omid的一篇帖子。
A post from bankless guest, Omid, as well.
他说，祝贺EF在市场及更广泛的领域中坚持了真正重要的东西。
He says, kudos to the EF for sticking to what matters in markets and beyond.
他写了一条很长的推文谈这个，他说以太坊在所有活动——包括抗审查、转账透明度和安全性——中都是明确的领导者，而这正是区块链和加密货币真正独特的地方。
He wrote a long tweet about this, but he's saying that Ethereum is the clear leader in all the activities, all the CROPS activities, censorship resistance, transfer transparency, and security, and that's really what makes blockchain and crypto special.
所以这是对区块链唯一重要之事的进一步强化。
So this is a doubling down on the only thing that matters for blockchains.
你为什么要做区块链？
Why are you a blockchain?
就是为了CROPS的原因。
It's for CROPS reasons.
因此，当然，强化和强调这些方面会是看涨的，并且能让你与该领域的一些其他项目区分开来。
So, of course, doubling down, emphasizing those things, that would be bullish, and it separates you from some others in the field.
可能与该领域所有其他项目都区分开来。
Potentially all others in the field.
我觉得这正是以太坊社区的风格，这个Lex node的推文实际上只是复制粘贴并转推了另一条推文。
Like, think this is kinda what the Ethereum community why this Lex node tweet was actually a copy and paste retweet of a tweet that was copied and pasted and retweeted.
确实是这样。
It was
就像一场复制粘贴的连锁反应。
like a chain of copy and pasta.
是的。
Yeah.
因为你知道，以太坊被认为是唯一真正具备有意义的CROPS特性的项目。
So because, you know, Ethereum is known to be the only one with meaningful crops.
其他所有项目都走了捷径。
Everyone else has done shortcuts.
是的，那条推文具体说的是什么？
Yeah, what is the tweet here?
Lexon的那条推文？
The Lexon tweet?
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得挺讽刺的是，以太坊的主要批评声却认为它始终专注于区块链存在的根本原因。
I do find it kind of hilarious that the main criticism of Ethereum has been that it's remained laser focused on the reasons blockchains exist at all.
你可以
You can
去点开那条推文，我会让你看到一连串转发这条推文的人。
go and you can click into that tweet, and I'll like turn you into a tunnel of people tweeting that tweet.
好的。
Okay.
是的。
Yeah.
我们还有AAVE的Stani，他刚刚发表了总体看涨的观点，称赞以太坊基金会的韧性愿景。
And we also have Stani from AAVE who just gave a broadly bullish take saying resilient vision from the Ethereum Foundation.
Stani给出了一个很好的赞。
Just a good thumbs up from Stani.
好的。
Okay.
那么，我们在这些看涨观点中看到了哪些积极因素呢？
So what are the positives we're seeing in the bull takes here?
所以，这是一件好事：以太坊正在强化其核心价值观，即区块链存在的根本原因——CROPS，同时也表明这使它们脱颖而出。
So this is positive that Ethereum is doubling down on its values on the things that make blockchains blockchains the reason why we're doing this whole thing in the first place, which is CROPS, and also saying that this separates them from the pack.
对吧？
Right?
它不像其他竞争性的Layer 1区块链。
It's not like an alternative layer one chain.
你知道的。
You know?
以太坊是唯一在这么做的一条链，也许比特币在某种程度上也算，但它们属于另一个类别。
Ethereum is the only chain doing this, maybe at some level Bitcoin as well, but those are in a class of their own.
它们正在进一步强化CROPS。
They are doubling down on CROPS.
这里确实有一些权衡，但这些是以太坊应该做出的权衡，这属于看涨信号。
It's definitely some trade offs here, but these are the trade offs that Ethereum should be making, and that's bullish.
也许短期内对价格不利，但从长远来看，如果它成功了，那将是看涨的。
Maybe not short term for price, but in the long run, if it wins, that will be bullish.
正是因为这样的决策，进一步聚焦于真正重要的事情。
And because of decisions like this, doubling down on the things that matter.
这是一种长期博弈的策略。
This it's the long game type
市场的长期博弈。
of market.
这是长期博弈。
It's the long game.
是的。
Yeah.
就像人们开始支持这样一个理念：CROPS才是核心。
It's like people just getting behind the idea that like CROPS is the point.
以太坊真正确立了区块链应有的广泛目标。
Ethereum really established what the broad point of a blockchain ought to be.
我们不会因为追求短期或中期的主题而偏离或分心，反而会更加专注于实现可能的最长期目标。
And we're not getting deterred from that or distracted from that by pursuing short or medium term themes, we're actually going to double down on focusing on the longest term game possible.
我还要提的另一点是，CROPS中的‘ pea ’是以太坊传统上不具备的东西。
The one other point I'll make here too is the pea in CROPS is something that Ethereum has not traditionally had
或者说是目前还没有的。
or does not have
当然，这在主网或一层网络上尚未实现，那就是隐私。
not certainly has not achieved on mainnet or on the layer one, which is privacy.
这一主题在以太坊基金会中才逐渐浮现出来。
This has been a theme that has emerged far more at the EF.
在过去十二到十八个月里，维塔利克特别强调了隐私的重要性。
And with Vitalik's emphasis over the last twelve to eighteen months, I'd say, is this emphasis on privacy.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我认为有很多工作正在推动这一点向前发展。
And I do think a lot of work is being done to to push that forward.
所以，CROPS中的P（隐私）是以太坊历史上所不具备的。
So the p in CROPS is something that Ethereum historically hasn't had.
而且，总体而言，CROPS这一整套目标，以太坊至今尚未实现。
And also, in general crops, it's just like Ethereum has not achieved the CR OPS yet.
并不是说
Not to
我所说的‘九的个数’是指，你可以拥有CROPS的50%，也可以达到50%的成功率。
the number of nines that Ethereum what I mean by that is like, you know, you can have 50% of crops, you can achieve have a 50% success rate.
你知道，我们仍然缺少其中的全部要素，或者缺少其中非常关键的一部分。
You know, we're still missing all the piece or we're missing a very big component of that.
但我认为EF在这里真正表达的是，他们追求的是极高的成功率——99.99%，这才是EF在CROPS愿景上所努力的方向。
But what I think the EF is really stating here is they are going for a very high number of nine 99.99% success on the crops vision is something that the EF is doing.
这大概就是我对这份文件的理解。
That's that's kinda like my understanding of this document.
这就像在CROPS上追求极高的可靠性。
It's like optimizing for a lot of nines around CROPS.
没错。
That's right.
其中一些是理想化的目标。
And some of it's aspirational.
有些是我们的北极星，是以太坊基金会希望引导以太坊朝向的方向。
Some of it is the north star that we're pointing towards and that the EF wants to guide Ethereum towards.
好的。
Alright.
这概括了看涨的观点。
So that was the encapsulation of the bullish takes.
关于这一点，也有一些看跌的看法。
There were some bearish takes about this as well.
是的。
Yeah.
第一个引起我注意的是Dankrad的观点。
The first one that caught my eye was from Dankrad.
Dankrad Fice，他直到最近都是以太坊基金会的成员。
Dankrad Fice, who notably was part of the Ethereum Foundation up until recently.
他是最强调以太坊需要走向新方向、全新方向的人之一，我不知道‘反对者’这个词是否准确，但他确实强调了这种必要性或紧迫性。
He was one of the largest I don't know if detractors is the right word, but the emphasizing the need or the urgency to for Ethereum to go in a newer direction, a fresh direction.
他可以说是L1的加速主义者，或者说，总体上主张更快推进，可能放弃一些被视为神圣不可侵犯的东西，但我并不想说是在走捷径。
He was an accelerationist of the l one, should we say, or of just moving faster in general, potentially cutting you know, getting rid of some sacred cows and and I don't wanna say cutting some corners.
我不确定。
I don't know.
我认为他不会走捷径。
I don't think he would cut corners.
做一些权衡。
Making some trade offs.
保持一个水平
Having a level
对产品紧迫性的重视，以及将产品作为核心愿景来推动，这并不会损害与CROPS相关的内容，而是强调迫切需要让人们真正使用以太坊。
of product urgency and and promoting product as a core vision, not to the detriment of anything crops related, but to the urgency of actually needing to get people on specifically Ethereum.
如果人们要上链，我们就必须让他们使用以太坊。
If people are coming on chain, we need to put them on Ethereum.
我们需要开展一些产品研究，弄清楚如何才能让用户上以太坊，这必须在短期和中期完成，而不是长期专注于CROPS。
We need to do some product research about what it's going to take to get them on Ethereum, and that needs to happen in the short and medium term rather than focusing on CROPS in the long term.
所以，Dankrad 也是 Danksharding 的提出者，当然，他大约一年前，或者不到一年前离开了，去了 Tempo。
So so Dankrad, also the the father of, Danksharding, of course, and he notably left about a year ago, maybe a little less than a year ago for tempo.
是的，这个链的
The yeah, the the chain kind of
产品优化工作从未间断。
With no shortage of product optimization efforts.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
That's right.
没错。
That's right.
那
What does
他说什么？
he say?
Dankrad 说，去年以太坊基金会。
Dankrad said, the EF last year.
嘿，我们想倾听用户的声音，以改进以太坊。
Hey, we want to listen to users to make Ethereum better.
现在的以太坊基金会。
The EF now.
JK，我们观察了现实世界。
JK, we looked at the real world.
毕竟，我们并不喜欢为它而构建。
We don't like building for it after all.
我们只想回归到只构建密码朋克项目。
We want to go back to building cypherpunk stuff only.
这是EF重回旧路，撤销去年的那些改变。
This is the EF going back to its old ways, undoing the changes from last year.
我早就担心会发生这种情况，因为维塔利根本没用心投入。
I feared this would happen because Vitale clearly wasn't in with his heart.
但无论他们怎么说生态系统能自行解决这个问题，根本问题依然存在。
But to whatever they say about the ecosystem being able to take care of this, the fundamental problem remains.
在所有核心开发者会议中，关心以太坊真实世界应用的声音寥寥无几，而且根本没人负责以太坊业务拓展。
There are very few voices in the all core devs call caring about real world Ethereum usage, and there is nobody doing Ethereum BD.
其他做这些事的人也都带着自己的独立利益。
Everyone else who is doing this also has their own separate interests.
因此，这部分故事将我们带回了围绕以太坊转向的讨论，这一转向大约发生在2024年。
So this connects us this part of the storyline connects us back to the raveling around the Ethereum pivot, which happened around the 2024.
我会说，从2024年初到2024年期间，社区对EF应将精力聚焦在何处的呼声日益高涨，形成了一股越来越强的浪潮。
I would say the start of 2024 to the 2024 in Ethereum, I will mark with as a growing crescendo from the community of a need of a directional pivot from the EF about where to focus his time and energy.
我们确实经历了一次转向。
We got some sort of pivot.
人们争论这次转向是否真的发生，或者像其他人说的那样，是重新 prioritization——在2024年，以太坊基金会的开发重点转向了扩展、Layer 1、blob、改善用户体验这三个方向，简化路径，并对产品开发保持紧迫感。
It's debated whether or not the pivot actually happened or not or reprioritization as other people say something happened at the 2024 where the dev focus of the Ethereum of the of the EF turned into the scale layer one scale blobs, improve UX three tracks, like simplify the tracks, have a level of urgency focus on product.
然后，我们确实算是迎来了这次转向。
And then we got like, we kind of got the pivot.
所以Dankrad的意思是，我们现在正在经历第二次转向，回到过去的状态。
And so this is what Dankrad is saying is, we're getting a second pivot back to the way things were.
我们现在正处于标记阶段。
We're on the tagging.
是的。
Yeah.
一些倒退。
Some regression Regression.
回到了以前的状态。
To the way things were before.
我认为，最能体现这种方向转变带来希望的领导者，并且真正强调了你提到的EF三大支柱的人，是塔马什。
I think a a leader that maybe best exemplified some hope in this change of direction and actually helped to emphasize the three pillars that that you mentioned at the EF was Tamash Right.
他来自Nevermind。
Coming coming in from Nevermind.
他曾是执行董事，大约三十天前辞职了。
He was the executive director, and he recently resigned about thirty days ago.
后来有一些后续讨论，因为人们说，塔马什离开肯定有什么内幕。
Now there there was some follow-up here because, you know, people were saying, yeah, and and Tamash leaving, there had to be some drama there.
你知道，EF的董事会一定是逼他走的。
You know, the the board at the EF must have pushed him out.
对。
Right.
塔马什一再发誓说，我认为
Tamash, like, swears up and down that there's I I don't think
是的。
that's Yeah.
我不认为是这样
I don't think that's
发生了那样的事。
what happened.
他没有被赶走。
He was not pushed out.
他离开是因为他觉得自己使命已经完成。
He left because basically he was feeling like mission complete.
是的。
Yeah.
工作完成得很出色。
Was a job well done.
我在这里的工作已经做完了。
I've done my job here.
是的。
Yeah.
我报名这个角色，是为了像一名以太坊的副 steward 一样服务一段时间。
I signed up for this role to, like, serve my time as a deuce steward of Ethereum.
对。
Right.
但 Tamash 本质上是一位企业家。
But a Tamash is inherently an entrepreneur.
他从企业家的角度看到了人工智能的力量和潜力。
He sees the power and potential of AI from an entrepreneur's perspective.
是的。
Yeah.
他想回到以太坊的应用层，做一些 AI 和以太坊结合的事情。
And he wants to go back to Ethereum's app layer and do some AI Ethereum thing.
我觉得这个说法对我来说是成立的。
I think that story holds up to me.
对。
Yes.
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
我觉得这说得通。
Like, I think that that that makes sense.
然而，Dankrad 还在说，以太坊基金会将回到之前的阶段。
And yet still, Dankrad here is saying that, you know, there the EF is going to move back to the pre Yeah.
Tamash，是的。
Tamash Yeah.
你知道，那个时间线里，对。
You know, timeline where Right.
用户没那么重要。
Users, it didn't matter as much.
应用层也没那么重要。
The application layer didn't matter as much.
以太坊会不管市场是否需要都去构建这个东西。
Ethereum was going to build this thing whether the market needed it or not.
以太坊基金会在路线图的推进上会很慢，就像之前那个时代，是的。
EF would be slow in terms of build out of the road map, kind of the before time era, which is Yeah.
你知道，像Dankrad这样的人认为这是种负面的。
You know, perceived by people like Dankrad as as kind of negative.
这也是他离开的原因，他会说他离开是为了去Tempo。
And a reason that he left, a reason he would say that he left for Tempo.
我认为他去Tempo的部分原因，是为了追求Right的产品市场契合度。
I think part of the reason he left for Tempo was so that he could pursue the product market fit of Right.
稳定币，你知道的，以一种激进的方式链上实现真实世界的应用，而他觉得以太坊社区和EF并没有充分利用这一点。
Stablecoins, you know, like on chain in an aggressive type way of real world application that he didn't see the Ethereum community and the EF maximizing.
是的。
Yeah.
我的看法是，Dankrad去Tempo是为了把CROPS带到Tempo，而不是因为他需要为Tempo带来产品。
My my take about this is Dankrad went to Tempo to bring CROPS to Tempo, not because he needed to bring product to Tempo.
他想在一个拥有产品和渠道的地方工作，这样他就能把CROPS引入其中，而他感到沮丧的是，没人能为以太坊带来产品。
He wanted to work in a place that had product and distribution that he could bring CROPS to and he was frustrated that no one could bring product to Ethereum.
这正是他公开说过的话。
That's what he has said publicly.
是的，他就是这么说的。
Yeah, that's what he said.
对。
Yeah.
好。
Yeah.
好吧，我们继续谈谈其他看空的观点。
Okay, moving on to some other other bear takes.
来自Pantera的迈尔斯·尼斯特罗姆。
Miles Nystrom from Pantera.
他发推文提到一些在EF宣言、产品路线图、金融支付、稳定币、客户开发者、市场份额和可扩展性中都没有出现的词。
He tweeted out words not mentioned in the EF Manifesto, product roadmap, finance payments, stablecoins, customer developers, market share scalability.
他说，这些词的缺失本身就说明了很多问题，他用一种非常具体的视角来看待区块链，将其应用到宣言上，指出这些词一个都没出现。
He says that the absence of these words speaks volumes, basically taking a very specific lens about what a blockchain is, applying it to the manifest, and saying none of these words show up.
就像所有真实的使用场景都没被提到。
Like none of the real world use cases were mentioned.
是的。
Yes.
我们在谈论一些不切实际的东西，比如自我主权，对。
We're talking about pie in the sky stuff like self sovereignty Yeah.
还有去中介化，对。
And disintermediation Right.
只是一些听起来很华丽的术语，但我们实际上并没有讨论具体可行的事情。
And just like flowery sounding language, but we're not actually talking about concrete tangible things.
市场关心的正是这些，这就是他想表达的。
The things that the market cares about, which is what these things are is what what he's saying.
在该宣言发布后，ETH 发了一条更犀利的推文，评论了以太坊。
You got that ETH made an even deadlier tweet about Ethereum downstream of this release of the mandate.
以太坊正朝着成为加密世界中的网景浏览器而发展——历史上具有奠基性意义，就像网景之于 JavaScript 和 SSL，其通过发明 EVM 做出了巨大贡献，但可惜因无法聚焦于真正重要的事情而注定将失去相关性。
Ethereum is on a trajectory to become the Netscape of crypto, historically foundational with his with his invention of the EVM as Netscape did with JavaScript and SSL, unfortunately destined for relevance due to an inability to focus on what matters.
而以太坊基金会若决心取胜，就应专注于如何让以太坊成为金融领域最优秀的区块链。
And EF determined to win would focus on how to make Ethereum the best chain for finance.
今天可不是这样。
That's not what it's doing today.
哦哟。
Oof.
随着DAIETH的出现，现在的DAIETH已经不像以前了。
As you get DAIETH, The DAIETHs aren't what they used to be.
是的。
Yeah.
以前是这样。
Used to be
在我那个年代，情绪要更乐观一点。
a bit more bullish back in my day.
我应该提一下，Taylor Monahan（来自MetaMask）对Dankrad的观点提出过反驳，她反对Dankrad用‘产品’这个词来描述以太坊及其构建的东西。
I I should say there was one counter to something that Dankrad said from Taylor Monahan over at MetaMask, and this is taking issue with Dankrad's use of, I guess, the the term product when describing Ethereum, what it was building.
她说：用户并不使用区块链，他们使用的是产品。
And she said this, users do not use blockchains, they use products.
以太坊基金会并没有在开发一个产品，而是在构建一个区块链，这是一个允许任何人无许可地构建任何他们想建的东西的平台。
The EF is not building a product, they are building a blockchain, which is a platform that allows anyone to permissionlessly build whatever the f they want.
我知道这很令人困惑，因为现在有很多浅层的、单一用途的区块链。
I know it's confusing because there's a lot of shallow single purpose blockchains out there.
浅层的、单一用途的区块链才是产品。
Shallow single purpose blockchains are products.
以太坊基金会并没有在开发一个产品。
EF is not building a product.
所以她想表达的是，所有那些抱怨的人，比如梅森，说没有实际用例，或者像Dankrad那样认为以太坊基金会没有回应真实用户的需求，她说这些都不是以太坊基金会应该做的事。
So what she's saying is all of the people complaining, like Mason, that there aren't use cases or like Dankrad that the EF is kind of not responding to real world users, she's saying that's not what the EF should be doing.
明白吗？
Okay?
他们并不是在以太坊之上进行产品开发的公司。
They're not the the the product development firm building on top of Ethereum.
他们的职责只是构建这个无许可、开放的底层基础设施，让整个生态系统有足够的空间和能力来开发各类应用。
Their job is to just build this permissionless open CROPS substrate so that the rest of the ecosystem has room and the ability to build out the apps.
所以她称其为一个平台，而不是一个产品。
So and she calls that a platform rather than a product.
你对这种观点怎么看？
What do you make of this take?
对某人来说，一切都是产品。
Everything is a product for someone.
所以我可以同意泰勒的说法，好吧，没错。
And so I can agree with Taylor and say, Okay, sure.
我们不是为最终用户而建，但你仍然得为其他人建。
Like, we don't build for the end user build for you're still you have to build for somebody else.
总有人是价值语义的消费者。
Somebody is the consumer of the value semantics.
这有点是语义上的问题。
It's a little bit of semantics.
所以，是的，我理解泰勒的观点，意思是浅层的、单一用途的区块链或产品，是区块链与用户之间更直接的产品链条，涉及的环节更少。
And so like, yes, I take Taylor's point in the sense that like, you know, shallow single purpose blockchains or products are a more direct product pipeline between blockchain and user and like, there's fewer moving parts.
以太坊的组件更多。
And Ethereum has more moving parts.
所以用户可能并不是直接客户，甚至应用也不是。
And so maybe the users aren't the direct customers or maybe not even the apps.
是的，以太坊是一个链的链。
Yeah, like Ethereum is a blockchain of chains.
但总有人是产品的消费者，更好的产品才能更充分地体现以太坊本身对某个人的价值。
But somebody is a product consumer and a better product will be able to better express the values of Ethereum in the first place for someone.
我有点明白这个意思。
I kind of get that.
我只是想说，如果你把一个国家的底层基础看作是像美国这样的国家。
I I I would just say just like if if you think of the substrate of a nation state, like, you know, America or something like that.
嗯。
Mhmm.
美国是这个国家吗？
Is America is the nation state?
那是一个平台还是一个产品？
Is that a platform or is that a product?
对吧？
Right?
在某种程度上，它确实有点像一个平台。
And at some level, it's kinda it's it's kind of a platform.
对吧？
Right?
它在技术栈中非常底层，但公民需要的是各种服务。
It's very deep in the stack, but there are services that citizens want.
归根结底，你需要吸引企业、公民、人才和个人，提供安全、法治、司法系统等服务，并为特定用户群体选择一套合适的服务组合。
And you are at the end of the day, you need to attract businesses and and citizens and talent and individuals, and you provide things like security and rule of law and court systems, and you pick a portfolio and a mix of of of services for your platform for that user group.
所以我基本同意，不管你怎么称呼它，是平台还是产品，你都必须提供别人想要的东西。
So I kind of agree that, like, no matter what you call it, whether it's a platform or a product, you have to be in the business of providing things that somebody wants.
人们想要的东西。
That people want.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yeah.
我们会基于这些特性选择在上面构建。
And we'll build on top of and we'll choose to build on top of due to these features.
是的。
Yes.
我完全同意这种表述。
I 100% agree with that articulation.
也许最后一条来自哈西姆的看衰推文或反对推文。
Maybe one last bear tweet or just detractor tweet from Hasim.
他说：很不愿意这么说，但请别再发宣言了。
He goes, hate to be the one to say this, but please, no more manifestos.
他们在过去一年里在这方面取得了巨大进展。
They've made great progress on this in last year.
人们希望从EF看到的是少一些宣言，多一些实际成果。
What people want to see from the EF is less manifesting, more shipping.
是的。
Yeah.
这可能是我最有共鸣的一点。
This is probably the one that I resonated with the most.
对。
Yes.
如果你还记得，这一点并不是什么宣言，要明确的是。
If you remember, there was so this was not a manifesto, to be clear.
这是EF的指令，但最近还有一个由Vitalik宣传并签署的宣言。
This was an EF mandate, but there was another recent manifesto that Vitalik advertised and signed on to.
这是来自2025年11月的《无信任宣言》。
This was from November 2025 called the trustless manifesto.
有很多作者。
Bunch of authors.
不同的事情。
Different things.
正是他所谈论的。
Exactly what he's talking about.
明白吗？
Okay?
这是几个月前的事了。
And this was a few months ago.
当时，即使是十一月，我也觉得，好吧。
And at that time even in November, I was like, okay.
不错。
Cool.
好像又出现了一个类似的宣言，感觉我们正被这些宣言和愿景文件淹没。
Like, we got another kind of manifest it feels like we're being inundated with these manifestos and vision documents.
是的。
Yes.
我认为我们正处于加密和以太坊世界，刚刚经历了大约五年相对停滞的熊市增长。
And I think we are very much in crypto and Ethereum world coming off of, like, you know, five years of relatively stagnant growth in a bear market.
我们现在正处于一个拿证据来说话的市场，是的。
We're in kind of a show me market Yeah.
也就是说，好吧，但你今天到底在发布什么？
Which is, alright, but what are you shipping today?
没错。
Yep.
对吧？
Right?
我喜欢这个路线图，但你们到底在做什么？因此，某种程度上，这里的批评是：现在发布这份使命宣言，而不是以代码或你们即将交付的某种实际成果形式，而是用另一个文档，这显得有点脱节。
I love the roadmap, but what are you And so, at some level, the criticism here is publishing this mandate right now in another document rather than code or, you know, like something something that you're about to ship in order to further CROPS is is a little tone deaf.
是的。
Yeah.
或者至少，它没有得到很好的回应，因为我们正处于市场的‘拿证据来说话’阶段，我们真正想看到的是代码。
Or at least it's like not being responded to well because we're in the show me phase of the market and we actually wanna see code.
我们想看到你们在L1上实际实现隐私保护，而不仅仅是宣称你们重视隐私。
We wanna see you shipping privacy on the l one rather than just talking about privacy as something that you value.
这就是现在每个人的感受。
And so that's just the how everyone is feeling right now.
当然，这也是我的感受。
And it's certainly how I feel.
顺便说一句，这并不意味着他们不能一边嚼口香糖一边走路。
Not to say, by the way, they should be able to chew gum and walk.
我的意思是，他们完全可以同时发布宣言、使命文件和愿景文档，并且实际交付产品。
I mean, they should be able to publish manifestos and mandates and vision documents and all of this while also shipping.
有人可能会说，去年十二月刚进行了一次硬分叉，今年上半年还会再来一次。
And some might argue, well, we just got a hard fork in December, and there's another one in the first half of this year.
所以每次硬分叉，我们就得到一份宣言。
So for every hard fork, we get one manifesto.
有些人只是在辩称，不，我们其实两方面都在做。
Well, some are just arguing that like, no, we're doing both.
好的。
Okay.
所以我们当然可以发布这些使命宣言，但与此同时我们也在持续交付代码；只是现在的氛围——不是指环境，而是情绪和心态——并不利于撰写长篇大论，因为我们希望价格上扬，也希望用例能在现实世界中真正显现。
And so we're, we could publish mandates, but and we're also shipping code as just, I don't know, the climate is not the environment and the temperament and the feelings right now are not as conducive to long documents, when we want price to go up, and we want use cases to be manifest in the real world.
所以，瑞安，你读过我发给Bankless高级订阅用户的以太坊周报了吗？
So Ryan, you read my Ethereum weekly post goes out to bankless premium subscribers?
是的，我读过了。
Yes, I did read this.
对。
Yes.
好的。
Okay.
我这周发给高级订阅用户的那篇帖子中提到，撰写一份指导以太坊发展方向的、阐述其核心价值的使命宣言，其最佳时机是在2015到2020年期间。
So like, did part about that that post that I put out for the premium subs this week was the time to write a mandate of Ethereum's values as a guiding document for the direction of Ethereum was in the twenty fifteen to twenty twenty era.
我确信当时也发布过类似的东西。
And I'm sure there was something like this published back then too.
如今，EF的主要产出似乎就是这些类似情绪板的文档，用来提醒自己和我们他们当下的风格是什么。
And it just seems the main export of the EF these days are these kind of mood board documents to remind themselves and us about what their vibe is.
是的。
Yeah.
这个观点挺有意思。
That is a take.
不过我会部分同意，因为我觉得在过去一年里，我们确实看到EF的成果输出有所增加。
Although I I would I would I give that a partial agree because I actually think over the past year, we've seen an increase in shipping from the EF.
所以我认为你
And so I would say You
这么认为吗？
think so?
是的。
Yeah.
我确实这么认为。
I do.
我们确实没有看到任何减少。
We definitely haven't seen a decrease.
所以我肯定会这么说。
So I will definitely say that.
节奏绝对是积极的。
Pace has definitely been positive.
他们因为紧迫感的提升而获得加分。
They get points for increase of urgency.
他们确实获得了这一点。
They do get that.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道，这涉及到你如何理解这份文件以及你个人的看法。
I, you know, and this goes into kind of how you perceive this document and what your individual takes are.
也许我们再做最后一次回应，然后我想听听你的看法，大卫。
May maybe we'll do one last retort, and then I wanna get your takes, David.
所以这位发帖人说：我读过很多关于新EF使命的批评，但这里要说明的是使命的实际作用以及为什么这些批评是错误的。
So this is a poster who said, I've read many criticisms about the new EF mandate, but here's what the mandate act as and why the criticism is wrong.
批评者认为是采用率不足，但现实是该使命优先考虑的是CROPS。
The criticism is adoption, but the reality is the mandate prioritizes CROPS.
这并不是反对采用，而是真正的可持续采用。
And this isn't anti adoption, it's actual sustainable adoption.
对吧？
Right?
如果没有CROPS，人们为什么一开始还要采用区块链呢？
Without CROPS, why are people even, you know, adopting blockchains in the first place?
另一个批评是，EF应该做业务拓展和机构 outreach，文档里本应更多涉及这方面内容。
Another criticism is that the EF should do business development, institutional outreach, would have liked to see more in the doc about that.
但现实是，这并非EF的职责，他们作为非营利协议管理方，正专注于自己的本职领域。
But the reality is that's not what the EF is for, and they are staying focused in their lane as a nonprofit protocol steward.
他们不是销售团队。
They're not a sales team.
他们并不擅长这个。
They're not good at that.
你能想象维塔利克参加销售会议的样子吗？
Could you imagine being Vitalik in kind of a sales meeting?
那样肯定搞砸了。
Like, it wouldn't go well.
以太坊基金会不可能面面俱到。
The EF can't be all things to all people.
以太坊基金会的职责是确保协议保持可信的中立性，而这种使命文件正是在推动这一点。
The EF's job is to ensure the protocol stays credibly neutral, and that's what this type of a mandate doc actually promotes.
另一个批评是。
Another criticism.
他们正在 undo 实用的进展，但现实是我们已经取得了大量进展。
They're undoing pragmatic progress, but the reality is we have a lot of progress.
我觉得你在文章里也提到了这一点。
I think you made this point in your article too.
拉里·芬克正在打造像ETF质押ETF这样的产品。
Larry Fink building, like, ETF staking ETFs.
汤姆·李每周都在买入以太坊，每周高达一亿美元。
Tom Lee is buying ETH on a weekly basis, like a 100,000,000 a week.
他从未停止过。
He hasn't stopped.
机构正在采用它。
Institutions are adopting it.
实际上，以太坊在现实世界中的使用正在增长。
Like, the real world usage of Ethereum is actually growing.
它并没有停滞不前。
It's not stagnant.
所以我认为这正是对那些看空观点的有力反驳。
So I think that's some of the the counter to to these bearish takes.
我喜欢这个推文的一点是，它很好地揭示了围绕这份宣言的两大阵营。
What I like to boast about this tweet is that it kinda identified the the two camps around this manifest pretty well.
是的
Yeah.
而且它把问题简化成了非此即彼的表述。
And it put it into like either or language.
它还直接穿透了那种批评，你知道的。
And it also and then it pierced right through that, you know, criticism.
以太坊基金会正在抛弃现实，诸如此类的说法——但这并不意味着因为他们推广作物，就因此没有做非作物相关的工作。
The EF is abandoning reality, blah, It's not like because they are promoting crops, they are therefore not doing non crop
事情。
stuff.
没错。
Exactly.
这确实是很多人理解的方式。
Which is definitely what a lot people interpret it as.
没错。
Exactly.
它可以既是这个又是那个。
It can be both and.
是的。
Yes.
它可以既是这个又是那个。
It can be both and.
为什么不能既是这个又是那个呢？
Why can't it be both and?
可以的。
Can be.
是的。
Yes.
对，这确实是个值得讨论的问题。
Yeah, that's definitely something to talk about.
在我们进入我们的观点之前，还有一个更重要的关键点。
There's also one more fulcrum before we get into our takes one more like fulcrum.
我想提一下Demobutyrin Vitalik的父亲。
I want to bring up demobutyrin Vitalik's father.
他发了这条推文，我觉得非常有代表性。
He tweeted this out that I thought was really pretty illustrative.
他的观点是，我们应该构建我们想要生活的世界，而不是基于当今现实世界的样子来设计。
He goes the point is to build the world we want to live in, as opposed to building for the real world as the real world stands today.
因此，这也是我认为在这一使命中多头与空头之间的分界线：有些人认为，如果我们为当前的世界而建设，我们就不会改变世界，世界会向我们的价值观屈服，一切都不会真正改变。
And so this is also the line that I think is drawn between the the bulls and the bears from this mandate is some people are like, if we build for the world as it stands today, we won't change the world world will capitulate on our values, nothing will really change.
我们真正想做的是创造一些全新的、这个世界尚未拥有的东西。
What we actually want to do is build something that the net new, something the world doesn't have.
然后，我们就会成为我们想要的变化，并展现出一个更美好的全新世界。
And then we'll we'll be the change that we want to be and will manifest a brand new world that will be better.
人们正在倾向于这两方中的某一方。
And people are kind of taking two sides of picking a side of that line.
是的。
Yeah.
这个词‘manifest’用得也很好。
That word manifest is good too.
我真的觉得，像这样的文件可以向世界发出一个信号，说：嘿。
I I do think a document like this can put a beacon out into the world of, like, hey.
如果你志同道合，想要朝着自我主权的未来前进，那就加入我们吧。
If you're like minded, if you want to build towards a self sovereign future, then come aboard.
这正是我们在以太坊所做的事情，你肯定能帮助实现这一愿景。
That's what we're doing at Ethereum, and you can help manifest that vision for sure.
我觉得这里还有一个相关的关键点。
I I do think that there's a a related fulcrum here.
你刚才谈到，是为现有世界而建设，还是成为改变世界的动力——是顺应世界，还是改变世界。
You know, you were talking building for the world or or being the change the world as it exists or being the change to to change the world.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我担心有些人，包括我自己有时也会有这样的忧虑，那就是以太坊会变得过于加密朋克化和小众，从而失去重要性。
I think that there is a deep worry that some have, and indeed, you know, sometimes I share, that Ethereum becomes too cypherpunk and niche to be important.
有一个项目，你和我经常提到。
There's a project that you and I refer to a lot.
这个项目叫Erbit，已经存在很久了，大概是2009年或者2013年2月左右。
It's a project called Erbit, which has been around since, I don't know, 2009 or something, 02/2013.
它在极客文化中已经存在相当长一段时间了。
A lot like, it's it's been around for a while in kind of geek culture.
它正在运行中。
It's running
有些人被ERBIT彻底洗脑了，是的。
Some some people get so pilled by ERBIT Yes.
他们盯着它看，就再也移不开视线了。
That they it's like they stare into it, and then they can't look away.
是的。
Yes.
他们就这样掉进兔子洞，变成了一个Urbit人。
And they just go down the rabbit hole and they become an urbit person.
是的
Yeah.
这是一种完全不同的操作系统理念，每个人都有自己的主权权利。
It's like a whole different approach in operating system where everyone is has a self sovereign Right.
操作系统。
Operating system.
我描述不出来。
I can't describe it.
对吧？
Right?
这就像人们看待加密货币一样，你一旦深入进去，就会变成一个加密货币迷。
It's not unlike how people saw crypto and you go down the crypto rabbit hole and you become a crypto person.
但区别在于，加密货币作为一种技术获得了上万倍的采用率，而且
But the difference is is crypto as a technology got 10,000 times the amount of adoption and
它确实改变了
It did change
影响巨大，并且已经改变了世界，目前正在改变世界。
the impact and did has changed the world and is currently changing the world.
城市里的人们却还没有。
Urban Urban people It still hasn't.
已经过去很久了。
It's been a long time.
它终将发生，但目前只是个有趣的小小玩具。
It's going to happen, but it's it's right now, it's just like a fun little toy to play
玩。
with.
小众科技乌托邦，是的。
Niche tech utopian Yeah.
梦想，一个自我主权的梦想，我不知道，可能只有几千用户，总是距离主流还有三到五年，总说会成为最伟大的事物。
Dream, self sovereign dream that, like, I don't know, has a few thousand users or something, and is always three to five years from being mainstream and being the biggest thing ever.
当人们看到这类东西时，却在没有相应现实应用场景的情况下加倍投入某些CROPS项目，这就是它对现实世界用例的意义。
And when people see things like this, a doubling down on on some of the CROPS stuff without the corresponding and this is what it means for real world use cases.
是的
Yeah.
我认为担忧在于，以太坊可能会走上一条无法改变世界的发展道路，因为它过于小众，与现实世界脱节，且有些过于理想化。
I think the worry is that Ethereum takes a path that is not going to change the world because it's too niche and too disconnected from what's happening in the real world and a bit too ivory tower.
在某种程度上，我认为这一直是以太坊或整个加密货币领域始终存在的风险。
And at some level, I think that has always been the risk that Ethereum has had or that crypto has had in general.
我们曾看到加密货币在上一轮周期中实现了大规模普及，但此后似乎放缓了。
It's just we saw such mainstreaming, like, of crypto last cycle, and it has seemed to have slowed down since.
现在有人质疑，这条路径是否能让我们更接近那个目标，或者我们不如专注于那些已经有一定实际应用的领域。
And there's some question as to whether this direction gets us closer there or if we're better off just doubling down and focusing really on the on the use cases that do have some traction.
我也认为，这有助于说明这份宣言诞生时所处的环境。
I also think that helps illustrate the environment in which this manifest has come into the world.
它诞生于加密运动‘Linux化’达到顶峰的时期。
It's come into the world in which the Linuxization of the crypto movement is at its highest.
我们比自2019年以来任何时候都更害怕变得无关紧要。
It's like we are at fear of being irrelevant higher than we've ever been since 2019.
是的。
Yeah.
我们从未有过这种担忧，即加密行业会变得无关紧要。
We haven't had this fear of like the crypto industry becoming irrelevant.
因此，这份宣言问世时，宣称我们正在为这一使命优化。
And so and then this this manifest comes into world saying we're optimizing for This mandate.
这一使命，并没有加剧人们所面临的这些担忧。
This mandate, and it doesn't doesn't, a, doesn't abet any of these these fears that that people are having.
有些令人兴奋的消息。
Some exciting news.
我们正在推出一个新的播客，帮助人们理解加密周期，以及如何应对它。
We are launching a new podcast to help people figure out the crypto cycle, how to navigate it.
我认识的最出色的加密周期投资者，他的名字是迈克尔·纳托。
The best crypto cycle investor I know, his name is Michael Nato.
他运营着《DeFi报告》。
He runs the DEFI REPORT.
这个人在我收到10月10日价格下跌的卖出提醒之前就发给了我。
This is the guy that sent me a sell alert before the 10/10 price drop happened.
他的周期分析一直非常精准。
His cycle analysis has been absolutely on point.
我已经关注他好几年了。
I've been following him for years.
今年，我们开始每周录制播客节目。
And this year, we started recording weekly podcast episodes.
每期节目我们都会深入探讨他的投资组合、持仓情况、市场结构、入场目标、比特币和以太坊的公允价值，以及我们所处的周期阶段。
Each one, we get into his portfolio, what he's holding, the market structure, entry targets, fair market value of Bitcoin and Ether, and where we are in the cycle.
每周三都会发布新一期节目。
There's new episodes that are released every Wednesday.
周三。
Wednesday.
每期时长三十分钟。
They're thirty minutes.
它们很简短。
They're short.
它们很精炼。
They're punchy.
我认为这个加密货币周期比大多数都更难把握，所以我们一起来应对吧。
I think this crypto cycle is harder to navigate than most, so let's do it together.
去订阅这个播客吧。
Go subscribe to this podcast.
在你常用的播客平台、YouTube、Apple 或 Spotify 搜索《DEFI 报告》，或者在节目笔记中查找链接。
Search the DEFI report wherever you get your podcasts, YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or find a link in the show notes.
现在有一期新内容在等着你。
There's a new episode waiting for you now.
好的。
Okay.
那么，当你阅读这些内容并观察围绕它的反应时，你的看法是什么？
So what what what was your take as you as you read this and and looked at the, the take surrounding it?
我有几个观点。
I have a handful of takes.
我看到的关键点是，关于作物，问题是以太坊将优化到多少个九来生产作物？
The the fulcrum that I see is that when it comes to crops, the question is how many nines is Ethereum going to optimize for to produce crops?
K。
K.
我替他说话的话，我认为Vitalik的意思是全部都要。
And like putting words in his mouth, I think Vitalik is saying all of them.
所有的九。
All of the nines.
比如四个九或者更多。
Like four nines or more.
我们要追求最多的九，越多越好。
Like we're going we're going for max number of nines and the higher the better.
我的偏好是，三个九已经很好了。
My preference is that, you know, three nines is really good.
即使两个九也行，如果我们能实现99%的可靠性，同时放弃这些极端的九数，转而专注于将以太坊的能力提升100倍，真正推动世界变革，我愿意做出这样的取舍。
Even two nines is it like if we can get 99% and if we give up some of these crazy number of nines so that we can attend to 100 x Ethereum's capability on actually imparting change in the world, that is a trade I would make.
但这并不是非黑即白的。
Now it's not black and white.
它可以是积极的，比如并不是说我们从这一端拿走，然后给到另一端。
It can be positive some like it's not we take from this end and we give it to that end.
事情并不是那样的。
It is a it's not not that.
但这也不是一个如此严格的二元对立。
But it isn't such a strict dichotomy.
但当我读到这份文件时，感觉以太坊基金会希望打造一个能够制约世界上最强大机构权力的以太坊，而不是自己成为世界上最强大的机构之一。
But when I read this document, it seems that EF wants to build an Ethereum to be a check on power of the world's most powerful institutions and not be one of the world's most powerful institutions itself.
我们之前做过一期Bankless节目，讨论Vitalik在愚人节发表的那篇为比特币最大化主义辩护的文章，当时用了这个比喻。
It's it's there was this we we did this, a bankless takes on Vitalik's article in defense of Bitcoin maximalism, which came out on an April fools day, and it used this metaphor.
区块链就像加拉德瑞尔的水晶瓶。
Blockchains are like the file of GALADRIAL.
加拉德丽尔
GALADRIAL.
你知道这个隐喻。
You you know this metaphor.
对吧？
Right?
这是
This is
《指环王》。
the lord of the rings.
当然。
Of course.
加拉德丽尔的晶石是什么？
What what is a file of GALADRIAL?
在其他所有光都熄灭时，为你照亮黑暗之地的光。
A light to you in dark places when all other lights go out.
这不是一种低成本的光。
It is not a low cost light.
它不是那种荧光嬉皮士节能灯，也不是高性能灯。
It is not a fluorescent hippie energy efficient light or a high performance light.
它是一种在所有这些方面做出牺牲，只为优化一件事——在你面对人生最严峻挑战时，能真正满足你需求的光。
It is a light that sacrifices on all those dimensions to optimize for one thing and one thing only to be a light that does what you need it to do when you're facing the toughest challenge of your life.
因此，这就是我看到Vitalik所强调的：我们要确保最大限度地提升以太坊的dX方面。
And so this is what I see Vitalik emphasizing is we are going to make sure that we that we maximize the d x side of Ethereum.
我们要成为每个人口袋里的工具，就像没有人、没有国家会使用核武器一样。
We're going to be a tool in everyone's pocket, kind of like how the no one, no nations, no nation state uses nuclear weapons.
但核武器的存在，已经切实地改变了世界。
But the existence of nuclear weapons has materially changed the world.
至于围绕核武器的经济体系，我不是说我想那样，但就像以太坊的存在一样，他希望它成为制约一切权力的制衡，而不是成为那个主体。
But in terms of like the economy around nuclear weapons, not saying I want that, but it's just like the the existence of Ethereum, he's going he wants it to be a check on the power of everything rather than it being the thing.
而如今，我和许多其他人直到现在都致力于让以太坊成为那个主体、那个机构，而不是一个更小的、虽强大但仅作为制衡大机构的存在——我对比特币和以太坊的兴趣，始终是最大化以太坊本身，人们称我们为ETH Maxies。
Now I, and many others have dedicated my life up to this point to like, help Ethereum be the thing be the institution, not a smaller, I'll be as so powerful, but not a smaller thing that is a check on larger institutions like my my interest in in crypto and Ethereum has always been to maximize Ethereum like people call us ETH Maxies.
他们主要指的是针对那些持币者。
They mainly kind of mean that for the bags.
但事实上，我一直想的是最极致的以太坊版本。
But like, if anything, I've always meant it for like, I want it the maximum version of Ethereum.
如果你说的是这个意思，大卫，那以太坊的版本是回退到以前的状态吗？
The version of Ethereum back things there, if I'm understanding you, David.
所以你第一点说的是，大卫愿意在中期的一些方面做出权衡，比如为了采用率而牺牲一些去中心化。
So the first thing you're saying is David would be willing to ex exchange some of the kind of the medium term type of make some trade offs, let's say, you know, for decentralization for adoption.
对吗？
Right?
你过去提到过的一些例子，比如出块时间。
And so things that you've brought up in the past are like slot times.
对吗？
Right?
嗯。
Mhmm.
你知道，降低这些指标，我知道可能会带来一些延迟方面的成本。
You know, bringing those down, I know that, you know, there's some cost maybe with latency.
它没有我们希望的那么去中心化，但你可以通过实际的采用率来弥补这一点。
It's not as decentralized as we'd we'd hope, but you make up for that with some real world adoption.
这类权衡，你更愿意做出，而不是坚持绝不妥协、绝不牺牲任何东西的强硬立场，尤其是在以太坊方面。
And those types of trade offs, you would be more willing to make than a hard stance of let's not sacrifice anything or very much at all when it comes to crops.
这似乎是你说的一个关键点。
That seems to be one of the things that you're saying.
我不喜欢‘权衡’这个词，因为我相信我们完全可以坚持严格的、极客风格的原则，同时实现广泛采用。
I don't like the word trade offs because I do think we can have, like, very hard lines, hyperpunk stuff and get adoption at the same time.
我不希望人们陷入非此即彼的思维模式。
Like, don't want people to be in this mindset of it's like either or sure.
我也不希望人们觉得，‘大卫愿意走捷径’。
And I don't want like, I don't also want people to be like, oh, David is willing to cut corners.
那他为什么不去用Solana呢？
Why doesn't he just go to Solana?
Solana 削减了太多底线。
Solana's cut too many corners.
我对 Solana 没有兴趣。
I don't care about Solana.
我根本不关心去那里。
I don't have any any interest in being there.
我真正感兴趣的是那些不削减底线的生态系统。
I'm actually interested in in the ecosystem that doesn't cut corners.
当然。
Sure.
我绝对不希望人们认为，因为我希望用户采用、希望为现实世界构建，就意味着我也支持削减底线。
And I definitely don't want people to think that, like, because I want user adoption and I want to build for the real world, then that means I also believe in cutting corners.
我的意思是，我不。
Like, don't I don't
没错。
No.
我明白。
I get it.
但你说过，与其追求四个九，你对两个九就挺满意的。
But you said, like, rather than four nines, you're fine with two nines.
对吧？
Right?
所以你是愿意接受
So you're willing to make
这确实是一种权衡。
sure that's a trade off.
说得对。
Fair.
说得对。
Fair.
我还会说，从99.9999%降到99.9%根本无所谓。
I would also argue that, like, going from 99.9999% to 99.9 Doesn't matter.
百分比是一回事。
Percent is the same thing.
结果是一样的。
It's the same outcome.
你是在说实用主义吗？也许这就是你的意思？
You're saying pragmatism, maybe it's just you what you're saying?
是的。
Yes.
最终，
Ultimately,
如果我们不把个人和机构接入以太坊，
if we do not put people on Ethereum, institutions on Ethereum.
如果我们一味追求高可用性，反而让他们无法接入，那我们到底在做什么？
And if we also optimize for tuning into many nines and made it impossible for them to come, then what are we even doing here?
对。
Yeah.
所以你担心，如果对CROPS这类宣言或规定采取过于强硬的立场，可能会削弱实用主义精神，而这种实用主义对以太坊真正获胜、改变世界并实现其宏大目标至关重要吗？
So you're worried that maybe like a hardline stance on, like, CROPS or these types of manifest or these types of mandates maybe shed some of the pragmatism that is going to be valuable if Ethereum is actually going to win and change the world and accomplish its its its big ambitions here?
是的，是的。
Yes, yes.
作为以太坊的北极星，我认为我们应该关注以太坊的市场份额，而不是ETH价格；虽然ETH价格高度相关，但核心是市场份额。
As a North Star for Ethereum, I think we should have Ethereum is like market share of not ETH price, but ETH price is highly correlated, but like market share.
在这场辩论中，我看到一条推文，我觉得它很好地体现了这种动态。
And there was a tweet that I saw in this whole debate that I think does kind of amplify exemplify this whole dynamic.
对。
Yeah.
这是来自DeFi的Ceteris说的。
This is from Ceteris from DEFI.
他说，如果以太坊没有一个让人们希望它上涨的代币，那么新的EF使命根本不会引起争议。
He goes, if Ethereum didn't have a token that people wanted to go up, the new EF mandate wouldn't be controversial at all.
它会得到一致的赞誉。
It would be unanimously celebrated.
我同意这条推文。
I agree with that tweet.
这条推文说得对。
That's a correct tweet.
如果没有人讨论这个问题，参与讨论的人数也会少一千倍。
There would also be one one thousand to the amount of people having this discussion in the first place.
当然。
Sure.
我想强调的是，以太坊在链上所占的市场份额，即全球链上活动的占比，与其真正改变世界的能力之间存在很强的相关性。
So I want to emphasize the point that there is a very strong correlation between Ethereum having market share of stuff on it, how like percentage of the world on chain, and how much can actually change the world.
是的，我们已经多次说过，去中心化并不是最终目标。
Yes, if we just, you know, we all we have said this many times, decentralization is not the end goal.
它只是实现某些特性和目标的手段。
It is a means to an end to achieve certain properties and things.
我要把这个观点应用到CROPS上。
I'm gonna apply that to CROPS.
区块链的目的不是生产农作物。
The point of blockchains is to not produce crops.
区块链的目的是把农作物作为实现某种目标的手段，而这个目标必须是以太坊市场份额的增长。
The point of blockchains is to use crops as a means to an end, and that end must be Ethereum growing in market share.
是的。
Yeah.
这是一个北极星目标。
And that is a north star.
我认为这是你第二个观点的一部分，也就是说，如果我要总结你的观点，你显然希望以太坊获胜。
That I think is a the part of your second take, which is, I think, if I'm gonna summarize your take, you've definitely want Ethereum to win.
当你阅读这样的文件时，它并不能让你相信以太坊基金会也希望如此。
And when you read a document like this, it doesn't convince you that the EF also wants that.
这里面有一些语言我本人并不认同，但again，这个想法是关于通过减法来增强韧性。
There there is some language in here that I didn't personally vibe with, but it's this idea again of, you know, subtraction for resilience.
以太坊基金会过去曾提到过‘通过减法实现加法’，而这正是四五年前的使命。
And EF has talked about addition by subtraction in the past, and that was indeed the mandate four or five years ago.
我认为这一点并没有做得很好。
I don't think that has gone so well.
我认为某些减法举措导致了这一领域的真空。
I think some of the subtraction has led to a vacuum in the space Right.
这个真空已经被TRADFI等其他实体填补了。
That has been filled by other entities like TRADFI.
然后，还有关于使命本身中‘去整体化’这一理念。
And then there's this concept, you know, philosophically in the mandate itself of detotalization.
我念给你听。
I'll read this to you.
我们相信，去整体化——即构建一个没有任何组织、系统或道德秩序能对个人生活拥有绝对主导权的世界——是最可靠、真正良好的目标。
We believe that detotalization, building toward a world in which no organization, system, or moral order has total dominance over any individual life, is the most reliable, real reliably good aim.
他们也像你所说的那样，提到了‘去中介化’作为北极星。
They also talk about the North Star, as you said, being disintermediation.
我对‘去整体化’这个理念有点担心的是，这是否意味着你对以太坊仅仅成为一个小众的辅助性项目感到满意。
What I worry about a little bit with the idea of detotalization is, does this mean you you're content with Ethereum just being a niche side type of project.
相反，我更希望实现可信中立的全面化和以太坊的全面化。
Like, instead, I would rather totalization of credible neutrality and totalization of Ethereum.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
与其让以太坊只是这些其他体系旁边的一个小玩意儿，为什么不把整个世界建立在这个赋予每个人主权的全球产权系统之上呢？
Like, rather than Ethereum being just, like, a small thing to the side among these other apparatus, like, why not the entire world based on this global property rights system that gives everyone their sovereignty?
如果我们如此
Like If we're so
为我们拥有的作物感到自豪的话。
proud about the crops we have.
是的。
Yes.
如果我们把世界建立在拥有所有作物的这个系统上呢？
What if we put the world on the thing with all the crops?
作物的全面化，是的。
Totalization of crops Yes.
而不是去整体化。
Rather than de totalization.
是的。
Yeah.
当你问以太坊基金会：你们希望以太坊赢吗？这种问题时，这其实是一个反复出现的主题。
And that's sort of it was kind of in this recurring theme when you sort of ask, like, EF, like, do you want Ethereum to win?
比如，我们会不会让以太币的价值达到一万亿美元？
Like like, are we gonna are we going to get ETH to 10,000,000,000,000 in value?
三万亿美金的价值？
30,000,000,000,000 in value?
我们为此做了些什么？
Like, what are we doing towards that?
去整体化、减法增效，我不认为这些能帮我们实现目标，这某种程度上是我觉得以太坊基金会背后的理念，但我并不完全认同。
Like, detotalization, addition by subtraction, I'm not convinced it gets us there, which is some of the underlying, I I think, philosophy of the EF that I don't necessarily vibe with.
但我确实认同其中的一些方面。
But I do aspects of it.
我的意思是，如果以太坊基金会是一个贪婪的怪物，吞噬一切、试图控制一切并 asserting dominance，那当然会太过分，是负面的。
Mean, if EF was this hungry monster that was consuming everything and trying to control everything and assert dominance, of course, that would be that would be too much, and that would be a negative.
可能会转向其他地方。
Probably move elsewhere.
但我们离那种情况成为问题还差得远。
But we are so far away from that being a problem.
以太坊的问题，如果真有问题是的话，恰恰相反——我们赢得还不够。
The problem in Ethereum, if there is a problem, is kind of the opposite of that, where we haven't won enough.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
是的。
Yes.
我明白这种观点。
Like, that's So kind of the I get that take.
你还有其他什么看法？
What what what other takes did you have?
为了完整阐述我的一些观点，我们最近有一期节目邀请了Zuko，他提到了Signal创始人Moxie的一场演讲。
To round out some of my takes here we had a recent episode with Zuko and Zuko brought up a talk that he heard from moxie, the founder of signal.
是的，他在播客中多次提到这一点。
Yep, he brought this up multiple times in the podcast.
这真是非常好的，非常
Such a good, such
出色的一篇文章。
a good piece.
是的。
Yeah.
他谈到了这个观点，将其作为2026年密码朋克构建产品的指导框架。
And he talked about that, like a guiding framework for cypherpunks to build products in 2026.
他说，这是Moxie在演讲中提到的：密码朋克为自己而构建，然后期望世界去适应。
And he said, this is what Moxie said in this talk, cypherpunks built for themselves, and then they expected the world to adapt.
这从来行不通。
That never works.
你必须在用户所在的地方与他们相遇。
You have to meet users where they are.
是的。
Yeah.
规模是唯一重要的事。
Scale is the only thing that matters.
用户少于一亿，你就无关紧要。
Under 100,000,000 users, you're irrelevant.
加密货币正在犯和Linux以及其他密码朋克相同的错误。
Crypto is making the same exact mistake that Linux and other cypherpunks have made.
对内行来说是强大的工具，对其他人来说却毫无意义。
Powerful tools for insiders and meaningless for everyone else.
瓶颈永远是用户体验。
And the bottleneck is always UX.
如果用户必须学习任何新东西，你已经输了。
If a user has to learn anything new, you're already lost.
当我读到这份宣言时，Zuko 对 Moxie 在这场演讲中所提担忧的任何回应似乎都未被提及。
And so when I read this manifest, none of Zuko's concerns that about what Moxie said in this one talk seems to be acknowledged.
而且这看起来像是
The and it seems to
我们实际上正在朝着
be like we're actually driving down on the
走向失败模式，即我们正在为 Vitalik 和他的朋友们，以及那些能跟上他们步伐的人打造工具。
towards the failure mode, where we're doing the thing like, Vitalik is building the tool for him and all of his friends and like people who can keep up with them.
对。
Right.
为了在未来的极权主义反乌托邦世界中生存下去。
To survive in a very, like, dystopian totalitarian world of the future.
是的。
Yeah.
但我们却没有提供一种非常友好的方式让人们加入这个生态。
But we are not allowing, like a very friendly way to get on the arc.
所以你会读到
So you would have read
一份来自以太坊基金会的文档，列出了十大阻碍我们实现百万级质押者和一亿人直接接入L1的用户体验问题。
a document coming from the EF of like the 10 biggest UX problems that help that hinder us from having a million stakers and a 100,000,000 people directly on the l one.
好吧，这就是它们。
Well, here they are.
我们如何
How do we
让每个家庭都能运行一个以太坊节点？
get an Ethereum node into everyone's home?
类似这样的东西。
Like something like that.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得，嗯，我同意这一点。
I think see, I I agree with that.
我明白。
I understand.
再说一遍，你可以说这个任务本身并不是那份文件。
Again, like, you could just say the mandate itself was not that document.
以太坊正在处理这个问题。
And Ethereum's working on that.
我也会
I will also
表达我的尴尬。
express my embarrassment.
那份文件正在准备中。
That that document is coming.
但我会暂时搁置我的悲观情绪。
But I I will shelve my bearishness for the time.
我想听听你的看法。
I wanna hear some of your takes.
我的看法是，当我第一次读到这份文件时，是在你们发表评论之前，直接看的原始内容，
My take so when I first read the document just raw before you you read the takes on the takes,
对，
right,
然后你就会被那些评论影响而产生偏见。
and then then you kinda get colored by that.
我特别喜欢把以太坊当作一个故事性价值资产的观点。
I loved the ETH as a story value asset thing.
我很高兴他们把这一点放在最前面。
I'm so glad that they put that at the very beginning.
对我来说，这一点就已经抵消了其他所有内容。
That to me already cancels out everything else.
就像，我已经看涨了，因为这简直是五星级的评价。
Like, I'm already bullish because it's five star five star review.
明白吗？
Alright?
我真的很喜欢CROPS这个概念。
I did really like the CROPS thing.
是的。
Mhmm.
因为要拥有像以太坊这样的价值储存资产，你就需要CROPS。
Because in particular, in order to have a store value asset like Ether, you need CROPS.
这就是关键。
That's the thing.
这正是比特币本应提供的，而以太坊甚至能做得更好。
That's the thing that Bitcoin is supposed to deliver, and that's the thing that Ethereum can even deliver more further.
因此这对以太坊应用本身非常有利。
And so it's very beneficial for the ETH application itself.
所以我喜欢加倍聚焦CROPS，以及以太坊能做到而其他所有公链做不到、比特币 arguably 正在逐渐失去的能力——也就是CROPS。
So I like the doubling down on CROPS and the thing that Ethereum can do that all the other corp chains can't do and that Bitcoin is arguably starting to fall down on, which is, you know, CROPS.
所以这一切对我来说都是看涨的。
So that's all bullish to me.
这份文件也很温馨，真的。
It was also, like, wholesome, this document.
明白吗？
Alright?
它有点小众，有点特立独行。
It was a little niche, a little out there.
对吧？
Right?
不一定是我的文化。
Not necessarily my culture.
就像哦，有点小女生。
Is like Oh, a little and lady.
就是这样。
Such.
是的。
Yeah.
一点小淑女。
A little mullady.
随便吧。
Whatever.
没关系。
That's fine.
但其中有一种乐观和希望。
But the there was an optimism about it, a hopefulness about it.
就像以太坊对世界、对自我主权有益。
It's just like Ethereum is good for the world, self sovereignty.
所以我们现在身处加密世界，照着镜子问自己：我们到底做了什么？
And so we're in this world in in crypto where we're kinda looking in the mirror, and we're like, what have we done?
我们到底在做什么？
What what have we been doing?
这难道只是一个赌场吗？
Is this just a casino?
这里还有什么更深层的意义吗？
Is there something more here?
所以这并不是对虚无主义的接受。
So this was not a embrace of the nihilism.
恰恰相反。
It was the opposite.
嘿，听我说。
Like, hey.
我们正在为一个更美好的未来而建设，我很欣赏这一点。
We're building for a better future here, And I appreciated that.
还有一些其他事情，也许是一些夸张的说法，感觉有点过于宏大了。
Some some other things, maybe some quipples, like, felt it was a little grandiose.
我们的使命被设定为面向千年尺度。
There are these multiple lines of our mandate is written for a thousand year horizon.
我当时想，这份文件恐怕不会在未来的千年里依然存在。
I was like, this is this is probably not the document that's going to live a thousand years in the future.
克劳迪娅，我挺喜欢这部分的。
Claudia, I kinda like that part.
你真的这么觉得？
You did?
对我来说，它只是感觉有点
To me, it just felt a
有点像是，我不知道。
little bit like, I don't know.
对我来说太多了。
Was a lot to me.
但同时，庇护所技术还挺酷的。
But also, the sanctuary tech is kind of cool.
他们似乎在大力推广这个梗。
There seem to be doubling down on that meme.
BITGALEX 已经多次提到它了。
BITGALEX has been talking about it a lot.
我还是觉得 Sanctuary 的资金更接近，因为嗯。
I still think sanctuary money is closer because Mhmm.
Sanctuary 技术是一个涵盖各种事物的完整领域。
Sanctuary tech is a whole field of all sorts of things.
对吧？
Right?
对。
Right.
对。
Right.
但以太坊是一个
But Ethereum is a
如果它是一个区块链
If it's a blockchain
它就是一个区块链。
It's a blockchain.
这是一个庇护所。
It's a sanctuary.
区块链，然后它是
Blockchain, and then it's
六个账户。
six accounts.
这跟钱有关。
It's to do with money.
这是庇护资金。
It's sanctuary money.
那我们为什么不更深入地聊聊资金的使用场景呢？
So why don't we just talk about the money use case a bit more?
另外，我赞同哈西布的观点。
Also, I do echo the Hasib thing.
我们的目标是发布宣言吗？
Like, are we shipping manifestos?
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