不法分子正登陆美国 | 美国商品期货交易委员会主席迈克·塞利格

但我们非常希望确保新的前沿金融能在美國落地发展，这意味着要推出新产品、新服务和新平台。

But we're excited to make sure that the new frontier finance is built here in The US, and that means new products, new services, new platforms.

对此我们不能害怕。

And we can't fear that.

我们必须积极拥抱它，并找到一条可行的路径。因为在我看来，如果我们设置障碍，把这类活动逼到海外，它确实会外流，而美国民众并不会从中受益——他们照样会用VPN访问，但完全得不到任何保护。

We have to embrace it and come up with a pathway for it because in my view, if we erect barriers, if we push this activity offshore, it will go offshore, and it's not gonna benefit the American people because they're gonna go use a VPN, and access it anyway, and they have none of the protections.

所以如果我们能在美國找到一条合适的路，我们一定会去做，而且一定会全力推进。

So if we can come up with a path for it in The United States, we'll do it, and we're gonna certainly work on it.

欢迎来到《无银行国度》，我又一次邀请到了迈克·塞利格。

Bankless nation, I am once again joined by Mike Selig.

他正是重返《无银行》节目的商品期货交易委员会主席。

He is the CFTC chairman back on Bankless.

迈克，很高兴你来参加。

Mike, great to have you.

很高兴能来这里。

Glad to be here.

两周前，CFTC批准了Kalshi X上市BTC永续合约的申请。

Two weeks ago, the CFTC announced a the order for approval to Kalshi X for the listing of the BTC Perp contract.

这对永续合约这种金融工具来说是个重要的里程碑。

This is a pretty pretty big landmark for the perpetual as an instrument.

这也是美国境内首家CFTC注册交易所推出的比特币永续期货合约。

It's also the first onshore US Bitcoin perpetual futures contract from a CFTC registered exchange.

同时，CFTC还向Coinbase发出无异议函，允许其用户通过Derabit接入Coinbase平台上的期货、期权和永续合约。

At the same time, the CFTC also gave Coinbase a no action letter allowing them to pipe their customers to dare a bit in order to access futures options and perps on Coinbase access through Derabit.

这确实是一次重大的批准。

Pretty landmark approval.

Mike，我们是不是即将看到更多类似的进展？

Mike, are we about to see more of these?

CFTC是在为境内永续合约打开大门吗？

Is the CFTC opening up the gate for onshore perps?

作为行业人士，或者只是对永续合约感兴趣的普通人，我们接下来能期待什么？

What can we expect as an industry or people who are just interested in the perpetual future instrument?

好的，非常感谢邀请

Well, thanks for having

我来参加这个节目。

me on the show.

而且，你知道的，这确实如你所说，是一个分水岭时刻，一个关键转折点。我们终于扭转了多年来那种靠执法来监管、缺乏明确规则、甚至把业务推向海外的局面，我们希望这些都能留在美国本土。

And, you know, this is really, as as you say, a watershed moment, a pivotal moment where we've turned the tide on the years of regulation by enforcement, a lack of clear rules, kind of this offshoring pushing things out of the country, and we want it to be here in The United States.

我们希望这个行业能够生存下来，蓬勃发展，并且在美国本土扎根建设。

We want the industry to survive, to thrive, and to build here in The US.

这其中的一部分意思就是要有期货市场，要有可以在美国交易所、在美国监管下、在美国本土交易的永续合约，而不是那种你得去用VPN才能搞清楚怎么交易的东西。

And part of that means having a futures market, having perpetual contracts that are tradable on US exchanges under US regulation, on US soil, and, you know, not something that you have to go use a VPN to be able to to figure out how to trade.

所以这一切要从Kalshi这样的交易所、Coinbase这样的交易所开始，还有一长串其他机构也即将推出相关产品。

So that starts with exchanges like Kalshi, exchanges like Coinbase, and there's a long list of others who will be launching the product soon.

我们最初批准了在Kalshi交易所上市比特币永续合约，同时也批准了通过Coinbase的经纪商访问离岸永续合约的权限。

We started off, with this initial order for a Bitcoin perpetual contract that was listed on Kalshi's exchange, and we also approved the ability to access through Coinbase's broker, offshore, perpetual contracts.

所有这些产品都是受监管的，这才是这里的核心主题。

And all of these are regulated products, and that's really the theme here.

这一届政府重视监管，但也同样重视创新。

This administration cares about regulation, but we also care about innovation.

所以我们正在为新产品敞开大门，我们认为这只是一个开始。

So we are opening the doors to new products, and we think this is the beginning.

这绝对不是终点。

It's it's certainly not the end.

还有很多加密货币和其他类型的产品，人们一直想在美国推出，但长期以来只能在海外提供。

There's many more, crypto and other types of products that people want to offer here in The US that for so long have existed only offshore.

所以这确实是一个开端，而不是终点。

So this is the the beginning and not the end for sure.

一个开端，而不是终点。

The beginning and not the end.

我觉得这正是我所在领域的人们如此兴奋的原因。

And I think that's why people in my neck of the woods are are just so excited.

永续合约作为一种工具，其平台的普及程度已经成为衡量采用率的重要指标。

Perps as an instrument as a, you know, Perps platforms incredibly successful as an adoption metric.

所以永续合约的采用情况非常好。

So like just the adoption of the Perp has gone incredibly well.

永续合约平台现在产生的利润，是加密领域里我们见过最高的之一。

And Perps platforms are just generating some of the the greatest profits out of crypto that we've seen.

这就是为什么大家这么兴奋。

And so this is why people are excited.

首先，我们可以从比特币开始。

You know, first, we can start with Bitcoin.

但我们还有一整类资产，希望像ETF那样也实现类似的标准化。

But we have a whole industry of assets that we would like to purpify, maybe in the same way that we had the the ETFs.

一开始是比特币，接着是以太坊，后来又出现了更多ETF。

You know, first, started with Bitcoin and then ether came, and then there are even more ETFs.

永续合约也会走同样的路吗？

Is that something that's going to happen with, Perps as well?

一个重要情况是，自从比特币永续合约获批以来，这一周内已经有多个产品在数字商品领域自我认证为永续合约。

Well, one important point is just in the week since we saw the green lighting of the Bitcoin perpetual contract, we've now seen a number of products self certified as perpetual contracts in the digital commodity world.

我们对加密资产的监管，是依据清晰的规则来划分的，和上一届政府的做法完全不同。

So we break down at the SEC and CFTC crypto assets using clear rules unlike the the last administration, the the crypto assets in the category.

我们把数字商品归为一类，这类资产的价值来源于某个网络、协议或应用程序。

So we have digital commodities, and these are assets that derive their value from a network or protocol or an application.

像比特币、以太坊、索拉纳、Uniswap的代币，这些代币的价值都来自其背后的网络、产品或应用。

Things like Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana, Uniswap's token, these types of tokens that derive value from a from a network or product or application.

这些产品要上市，必须满足一些基本要求，比如要有活跃的市场，不能轻易被操纵，等等。

All of those products with certain requirements around the the product being listed, the products have to have a ready market, have to be not readily susceptible to manipulation, and so on and so forth.

只要合约符合我们的标准，就可以由交易所自行认证。

But provided that the contract meets our requirements, those can be self certified.

这意味着交易所无需事先申请许可，就能上架这些产品。

That means that the exchange can list those products without having to ask for permission first.

他们提交之后，如果我们发现违反监管规定，可以拒绝，但整体流程非常顺畅。

They can essentially submit them, and we we can reject the contract if we believe there's an issue with our regulations, but they can be listed fairly easily.

过去一周，已经有好几项这样的产品成功上线了。

So we've seen a number of those be listed in the past week.

我们预计未来还会有更多，但接下来谈到其他类别，比如数字收藏品、模因币这类资产，我们就需要和工作人员走一个正式流程。

We expect to see more in the future, but then moving into other categories, digital, you know, collectibles, for example, meme coins, those sorts of assets, we would expect a process with the staff.

我们希望这些资产经过CFTC的完整审批程序，再谈加密货币以外的东西，比如股票、金属，或者其他类型的产品。

We want those to go through our full approval with the CFTC and then moving into things beyond crypto, equities, which we can certainly get into, metals, other types of products.

我们并不指望这些产品能马上上市。

We're we we would not be expecting those to be listed right away.

它们需要经过工作人员的审核流程，但我们很乐意和交易所合作，推动新产品的上线。

There would be a process with the staff, but we're interested to engage with the with the exchanges on listing new products.

有些加密资产正在获得明确的监管定位。

So there are some crypto assets that are being given Clarity by Clarity.

我刚才听你的意思是，那些已经通过立法程序的资产，现在可以由CFTC认可的平台自行认证，这就是目前的运作方式。

And I think what I what I heard from you just now is those assets that have already kind of gone through the legislative process are able to be self certified by CFTC approved platforms already, and this is just kinda how this goes.

所以，如果你是一家符合CFTC规定的交易所，只要某个资产已经通过《清晰法案》获得了明确的监管地位，你就可以自行认证上线。

And so if you are a CFTC compliant exchange, you can self certify given the asset itself has already been given some sort of approval clarity through Clarity Act.

我理解得对吗？

Did I hear that correctly?

其实并不是《清晰法案》本身。

Well, it's not the Clarity Act itself.

几个月前，甚至可能是三四个月前，阿特金斯主席和我一起合作，对加密资产做了分类界定。

So, a couple months ago or maybe even three or four months ago now, chairman Atkins and I came together, worked together on an interpretation that divided up crypto assets into categories.

明白了。

I see.

我们把加密资产分成了几类，比如数字商品、收藏品、数字工具、流动性质押凭证、数字证券、代币化股票，还有稳定币等等。

And so we have crypto, assets that are digital commodities, collectibles, digital tools, things like liquid staking receipts, digital securities, tokenized stocks, and and all of that, and stablecoins.

我们这次批准的永久性规则，允许对属于数字商品类别的加密资产进行自我认证。

And so this perpetual order that we granted allows for self certification of crypto assets in the digital commodities category.

至于其他类别，不管是加密资产、股票还是别的，我们都会要求走一个与工作人员的流程，不过工作人员也随时准备对接其他类型的资产。

And then beyond that, whether it's in crypto or in stocks or anything else, we would expect a process with the staff, but the staff's ready to engage on on other asset classes as well.

明白了。

I see.

好的。

Okay.

所以那些主流资产，比如常见的Layer 1原生资产——比特币、以太坊、Solana——这些应该都属于你刚说的那类，交易所可以直接自行认证。

So like the big the big assets, the ones that are commonly found to be the layer one native assets, Bitcoin, Ether, Solana, one could one could imagine as well are all in that category that you just said of just like it's going to be exchanges are going to be able to self certify.

等我们再往深了看，接触到一些更新颖或者更复杂的加密资产时，就得根据具体情况来判断它们的性质了。

And then as we maybe get a little bit further into more of the newer or more exotic assets in the in the crypto industry, that is a little bit of facts and circumstances about the nature of those things.

完全正确。

That's absolutely right.

过去一周，我们看到除了比特币之外，还有大约17种其他资产，要么已经由交易所自行认证，要么正在走这个流程。

And we have seen I think there's about 17 other assets beyond Bitcoin that we saw self certified by exchanges or in the process of being self certified in the past week.

这些交易所是哪些？

What are these exchanges?

现在美国期货市场正掀起一股热潮，各大平台都摩拳擦掌，比如Coinbase、Robinhood、Kraken、OKX，它们都有美国实体，急着想上线期货产品。

Because there is a bit of a gold rush for The United States perps market that players are just chomping on the bit like Coinbase, Robinhood, Kraken, OKX, they all have United States entities that they want to, you know, offer perps for.

还有预测市场平台Kalshi，你们当初就是给它们批了第一个比特币期货合约，Polymarket现在也加入进来了。

We have the prediction market platforms Kalshi, which you gave you guys gave the the Bitcoin perp contract for originally, but also Polymarket ones in this game as well.

另外还有一些更原生的链上平台，比如Hyperliquid、Lighter，还有其他几个。

But then we also have some of the more crypto native on chain platforms, like Hyperliquid, Lighter, a few of the other ones.

这么多玩家都想进入美国的永续合约市场。

So many players want access to this in The United States perps market.

你们是怎么区分这些平台之间本质上的不同呢？

How do you guys delineate between just the different nature of all of these platforms?

我们几乎在和所有这些平台合作。

We're working with virtually all of these platforms.

Coinbase 和 Kalshi 是最早上线的，但 Bitnomial 早就推出了类似永续的合约产品。

So Coinbase and Kalshi were the first two to launch, but we also have Bitnomial that's had a perpetual style contract for some time now.

那其实不算真正的永续合约。

It's not a true perpetual.

但你可以预期他们也会朝这个方向调整，和其他交易所一样。

You can probably expect them to to move in the same direction as well as other exchanges.

我觉得 Kraken 和 Gemini 都已经发过社交媒体公告了，而 Kraken 实际上是 Bitnomial 的母公司。

I believe Kraken and Gemini, which Kraken actually owns Bitnomial, believe they've made announcements on social media.

还有很多其他平台也在准备推出这个产品，我们很期待能和这些交易所合作。

So there's many others that are looking to offer the product, and we're excited to work with these different exchanges.

一旦进入链上领域，链上产品的很多考量因素就不同了，但我们确实在积极与这些协议开发者和公司合作，推动链上市场进入美国。

And then when you get into the onchain space, many of the considerations around onchain products are different, but we're certainly engaging with these protocol developers and firms to help get on chain markets to The US as well.

正如你所料，PERP市场之前主要是在海外发展起来的。

As you would expect, the PERT market has, you know, grown offshore.

现在我们看到它开始进入美国本土。

And now now we're seeing it come onshore.

目标是把所有交易都移到境内吗？

Is the goal to get all of it onshore?

还是说，你认为最终会形成一种平衡，部分海外市场会继续留在境外？

Or how do you expect the equilibrium to kind of settle out between some offshore markets will remain offshore?

或者，比如塞利格主席，作为商品期货交易委员会的主席，你的职责是不是尽可能把所有交易都拉到境内？

Or, you know, chairman Mike Selig, is it your job as the chairman of the CFTC to, like, get everything onshore as much as possible?

嗯，这么说吧。

Well, look.

作为主席，我的目标是让所有交易都纳入美国的受监管市场体系。

I think my goal as the chairman is to get everything within a regulated market structure here in The US.

只要某个产品在海外存在，而且美国市场有需求，我们就想把它引进来。

So to the extent that the product exists offshore and it's something that there's interest in in The United States, we wanna bring it here.

我们希望吸引交易量。

We want the volume.

我们希望拥有充足的流动性。

We want the liquidity.

我们希望在美国境内开展有成效的经济活动，但同时也必须保护投资者。

We want that ability to engage in productive economic activity here in The United States, but we have to protect investors.

我们必须确保客户的资金安全。

We have to make sure customer funds are safe.

我绝不希望再发生一次FTX那样的事件。

I do not want another FTX to happen.

我要补充一点，CFTC监管下的FTX实体是唯一一个真正保障客户资金安全的。

And and I will add on that point, the CFTC regulated FTX entity was the only one that was safe, that that protected customer funds.

所以，监管是有效的。

And so regulation works well.

本届政府相信监管，同时也支持创新。

This administration believes in regulation, but also in innovation.

无论是加密货币、人工智能、预测市场，还是像永续合约这样的新型衍生品，我们都希望它们在美国落地，但我们会为它们设定明确的规则。

And so whether it's crypto, AI, prediction markets, new derivatives like perpetuals, we want it here in The US, but we're gonna set guardrails around it.

这些规则我们将打造成业界顶尖、全球标杆，其他国家都会以我们为榜样。

And those guardrails, we believe, will be best in class, the gold standard we expect other countries to follow.

但我们一定会走在前面。

But we are gonna lead.

我们会确保美国在创新领域占据领先地位。

We are gonna make sure The United States is the leader in innovation.

在美国境内交易的永续合约，和海外常见的版本有什么不同？

How will the perps in inside The United States work different than what is typically found offshore?

也就是说，哪些具体规则会让美国合规市场上的永续合约，和别处的版本有本质区别？

So like what are those guardrails that will just kind of change the nature of the perp found in the compliant US market versus what might what may be found elsewhere?

一个关键点是，我们所有的交易所都已在商品期货交易委员会完成注册。

One important consideration is that each of our exchanges is CFTC registered.

它必须提供一套明确的规则。

It has to offer a rule book.

必须遵守我们法律中规定的那些核心原则。

It has to comply with certain core principles that are laid out in our statute.

由商品期货交易委员会负责监管。

It's overseen by the CFTC.

我们会对每家交易所，还有清算所进行审查。

We examine each of these exchanges and then also the clearinghouse.

每一份合约都会经过中央对手方清算所处理。

So each contract is run through a central counterparty clearinghouse.

这意味着有专门的机制来保障客户的资金安全。

That means that there are certain controls that protect customer funds.

通常你是通过经纪商来接入清算所和交易所的。

Oftentimes, you're using a broker to access the clearinghouse, to access the exchange.

你不是直接进入市场，但我们现在看到越来越多的交易所提供直接接入服务，我们认为这对我们的市场也很有价值。

You're not going direct to the market, but we are, starting to see many exchanges offer direct access, which we also think is is a valuable thing for our markets.

我们支持竞争。

We like competition.

我们重视选择的多样性。

We like optionality.

在美国，这些平台受到一系列严格的监管，而链上的一些项目却没有监管机构介入。

So there's a a wide range of regulations that apply here in The US to these platforms relative to say something on chain that that doesn't have a a regulator.

我们也会审批待上市的合约。

We also, of course, approve contracts for listing.

每个合约都必须不容易被操纵。

So each contract has to not be readily susceptible to manipulation.

有些合约走的是自我认证流程，这意味着我们不必逐个批准，但仍有权拒绝任何提交上市的合约。

I mentioned that some of these go through a self certification process, which means that that we don't have to individually approve each one, but we have the ability to reject when something's submitted for listing.

这一点非常重要。

So that's very important.

杠杆是个大问题。

Leverage is a big issue.

在海外，杠杆有时能达到250倍，甚至更高。

So leverage offshore, you see 250 x sometimes, you know, beyond that even.

在美国，我们通常看到的是5到7倍，偶尔会到10倍。

In The United States, we've seen more five to seven x range, sometimes getting up to 10.

像标普这类不在加密货币领域的衍生品，杠杆会更高一些，但这些都是基于我们监管设定的参数，再和清算所、交易所共同调整出来的。

Some products like the S and P products moving outside of crypto have a higher leverage, but all this is based on certain parameters that are set by our regulations, and then we work with the clearinghouses and with the exchanges on getting right.

所以对于比特币永续合约和其他类似产品，你大概会看到5到7倍，最多到10倍的杠杆，但绝对达不到海外那种水平。

So for Bitcoin perpetuals and some of these products, expect to see five to seven, maybe getting up to 10 x leverage, but nothing like you're getting offshore.

这对投资者来说其实更有利。

And and that's helpful for investors.

它能更好地保护客户资金。

That does protect customer funds.

可能不像海外那些超高杠杆的产品那么让人兴奋，但……

It may be, you know, not what people are, excited about offshore with some of the excessive leverage.

不过我认为，对于想参与这些合约的大型机构，还有普通投资者来说，这种产品因为没有过度杠杆，比海外的要安全得多。

But I think for the larger institutions that are looking to get into these contracts and for the average investor, this is a safer product than what you see offshore, due to that lack of, you know, excessive leverage.

当然，我们的团队会定期审查这些产品。

And, of course, our, our staff are looking at these products on a regular basis.

他们可能会调整这个杠杆比例。

They might make adjustments to that that ratio.

他们会参考过去三十天的均价等数据进行计算。

There's certain calculations based on, you know, a trailing thirty day, average of the price and all of that that they're looking at.

请放心，监管规定始终有效，这有助于保障客户资金的安全。

But rest assured that regulations apply, and that's gonna help keep customer funds safe.

让我和许多加密行业人士感到兴奋的一个重要领域，是这些链上平台的兴起——它们基于区块链，因而具备了我们所看重的区块链特性。

One of the big categories that excites me and many others in the in the crypto industry is the the rise of these onchain platforms that are blockchains and therefore are imbued with some of the things that we find exciting about blockchains.

这些平台是可以审计的。

They're auditable.

对终端用户而言，它们是透明的。

They're transparent to the end user.

它们本身就更公平。

They have just inherent more more fairness.

所以，当这些平台运行在区块链上时，作为监管者，我认为你会对它们的透明度和可审计性感到兴奋。

And so there are some of these platforms that when they're on a blockchain, I would expect as a regulator are exciting to you because of their transparency, their auditability.

有些平台甚至希望把代码开源，让你——作为商品期货交易委员会，也让我作为用户——清楚地看到代码到底是怎么运行的。

You know, some of these things actually want to, like, open source their code and, you know, be able to show you as a CFTC, but also me as the user exactly how the code operates.

如果这些平台能直接把核心代码开源，向全世界展示它们的运作方式，这会不会改变商品期货交易委员会对这个领域的监管思路？

Does this change the nature of how the CFTC thinks about regulation in this space when some of these platforms can just, know, open so open source their their guts and show the world exactly how they operate?

这会不会改变你的工作方式，哪怕只是一点点？

How does that change your job, if at all?

比特币和区块链技术的出现，其实是在金融危机之后。

Well, Bitcoin and blockchain technology really came about on the heels of the financial crisis.

而金融危机很大程度上源于市场缺乏透明度，因为整个系统太过隐蔽。

And financial crisis in large part was this issue of a lack of transparency in our markets because they were super opaque.

如今，由于《多德-弗兰克法案》及相关法规的推动，我们已经强制要求更多报告和透明度。

We now have a number of forced, reporting and forced transparency initiatives to our regulations as a result of Dodd Frank and and regulations they're under.

但区块链技术通过技术手段，解决了这些问题，而不是单纯依靠监管的强力干预。

But blockchain technology solves a lot of that using technology instead of kind of the the brute force of the regulator.

所以我对这一点非常期待。

And so I I am very excited about that.

我认为区块链为传统市场和一些新兴市场带来了巨大优势，比如预测市场、新型加密资产产品和永续合约。

I think that blockchain offers a ton of benefits for our traditional markets and for some of these new markets that we're seeing on the frontier, things like prediction markets, things like new crypto asset products and perpetuals.

我预计这项技术将在我们的各类市场中广泛应用，无论是证券、商品衍生品，还是未来可能出现的任何新品种。

I expect to to see this technology be used in a very broad, way across our markets, whether it's in securities or commodity derivatives or the next, new thing in our markets.

是的，我相信通过链上数据完全可以实现透明度。

So, yes, I I believe that transparency can be achieved through using onchain data.

作为监管者，我遇到的一个问题是，举个例子，如果我想追踪从事内幕交易、市场操纵或欺诈的不法分子，链上能提供大量数据，只要通过充分的研究和分析，我基本能锁定他们的身份，因为他们很可能通过某个交易所完成身份认证。

The one issue that I have as a regulator is, I'll give you an example, if I'm looking to catch a bad actor who's engaging in insider trading or manipulation or fraud, I can get a ton of data onchain, and I likely can pinpoint that person with enough research and analytics, to figure out who they are because they probably onboarded through one of the exchanges.

假设他们是在去中心化金融平台上交易。

Let's say they're they're trading in DeFi.

但我需要找到有效的方法来抓到这些不法分子。

But I need to to find a way to be able to catch some of these bad actors.

所以，拥有强大的分析工具确实非常有帮助。

So, you know, having tools, analytics tools is very helpful.

我觉得这项技术还处于早期阶段，但随着链上技术不断进步，监管机构将更容易利用它来替代传统的交易报告机制，直接用链上交易数据取代向数据仓库提交报告——因为我们可以清楚看到交易是否发生、是否已结算到以太坊主网、二层网络，或者其他地方，还能以很高的准确度识别出交易者身份，从而揪出那些利用内幕信息或操纵市场的违规者。

I think the technology is in its early stages, but I do expect as onchain technology continues to advance, it will become much easier for regulators to really lean into the technology for, us to replace things like trade reporting to to data repositories with onchain transaction data because we can see the transaction occurred, that it settled to the Ethereum blockchain or to our layer two or wherever else, and we can figure out with a a strong degree of certainty who the traders are and and catch bad actors when, for example, they're, trading, you know, using insider information or manipulating markets.

所以我对这个前景非常看好。

So I'm excited about it.

我们确实还处在早期，但进展速度相当快。

I think we're in the earlier days, but we're we're getting there pretty fast.

我们正在和多个项目合作，探索如何用技术替代现有的规则和监管要求，推动自动化，真正把区块链技术用起来。

We work with, with a number of projects on trying to to figure out how to substitute some of our existing rules and regulations for technology, how to automate things, and really lean into blockchain technology.

当然，网络安全风险我们也在时刻关注，但只要这些方面都能妥善解决，我相信区块链技术将在不久的将来彻底改变我们的金融市场。

And, of course, you've got cyber risks that we're thinking about constantly, but if we can get all of that right, I believe that blockchain technology really will revolutionize our financial markets in the in the near future.

有十万美元的奖金等着大家去赢取。

$100,000 is up for grabs.

MetaMask 和 Ondo 正在 Ondo 交易大赛中发放这笔奖金。

MetaMask and Ondo are giving it away in the Ondo trading competition.

比赛持续五周，分为三个等级。

Five weeks, three tiers.

每个层级中收益率最高的参与者，将获得最大的奖金份额。

Whoever earns the best percentage return in each tier wins the biggest cut.

从260种Ondo代币化股票、基金和大宗商品中选择，通过MetaMask进行交易，让您的投资组合自己说话。

Pick from 260 Ondo tokenized stocks, funds, and commodities to swap inside MetaMask and let your portfolio do the talking.

如果您觉得自己能胜过所有人，现在到6月18日就是证明自己的机会。

If you think you can outtrade everyone else, this is your chance to prove it from now until June 18.

点击下方描述中的链接，在MetaMask移动应用中报名参赛。

Click the link in the description below and opt in on MetaMask Mobile.

在手机或电脑上交易现实世界资产，参与竞赛。

Trade RWAs on mobile or desktop to compete.

此内容不构成投资建议。

Not investment advice.

2024年，新兴市场为投资者创造了超过1150亿美元的年收益，收益率介于10%到40%之间。

In 2024, emerging markets generated over a $115,000,000,000 in annual yield for investors, with yields ranging between 10 to 40%.

这些是全球最高、最稳定的收益率之一。

These are some of the highest, most persistent yields on earth.

问题在哪？

The problem?

去中心化金融根本接触不到这些机会。

DeFi can't access them.

Brix 改变了这一点。

Brix changes this.

基于 Mega ETH，Brix 将新兴市场的货币市场和主权利差，转化为你钱包里直接可用的可组合模块。

Built on Mega ETH, Brix takes emerging market money markets and sovereign carry and turns them into composable primitives you can access straight from your wallet.

当去中心化金融投资者在稳定币和国债上只能赚 3% 到 6% 的收益时，机构早已通过主权货币政策获取 10% 到 50% 的回报。

While DeFi investors earn three to 6% on stablecoins and T bills, institutions have been harvesting 10 to 50% yields backed by sovereign monetary policy.

Brix 通过机构级的灰色代币化、本地银行通道、跨司法管辖区的合规体系，以及实时稳定币结算，把这两个世界连在了一起。

Brix connects these worlds with institutional gray tokenization, local banking rails, compliance across jurisdictions, and real time stablecoin settlement.

Brix 负责搞定所有复杂环节，让去中心化金融终于能接触到真实资产抵押和基于现实收益的结构化产品。

Brix does the heavy lifting so DeFi can finally access real collateral and structured products on top of real world yield.

就连最顶尖的利差交易，现在也触手可及。

Even the best carry trades can be within reach.

Brix 让去中心化金融的愿景走进新兴市场，把新兴市场的收益直接带到你的钱包里。

Brix brings DeFi's promise to the emerging world and brings the emerging market yield to your wallet.

让收益顺畅流入，就用 Brix。

Let the yield flow with Brix.

交易正在改变，不是慢慢来，就是现在。

Trading is changing, not gradually, right now.

OKX 刚刚在 App 里直接推出了交易机器人。

OKX just launched TradingBots directly inside the OKX app.

网格交易、定投、套利，你设好策略，它就24小时自动执行。

Grid trading, DCA, arbitrage, you set your strategy once and it executes around the clock.

不用整天盯着图表，不用手动下单，睡着了也不用担心错失机会。

No staring at charts all day, no manual entries, no missing moves while you're asleep.

第一次，自动化交易真的变得简单了。

And for the first time, automated trading actually feels simple.

但 OKX 的想法不止于交易。

But OKX is thinking bigger than just trading.

他们还推出了代理支付协议，这是一个开放标准，让AI代理能够链上完成完整的商业交易。

They also launched the Agent Payments Protocol, an open standard that lets AI agents execute full commercial transactions onchain.

以太坊基金会、Uniswap 和 AWS 已经在使用它，现在它已经在美国正式上线。

The Ethereum Foundation, Uniswap, and AWS are already building on it, and now it's live inside The United States.

新用户只要存入并交易，就能通过 Bankless Link 获得最高 500 美元的比特币。

And new users who deposit and trade can get up to $500 in Bitcoin through the bankless link.

更多详情请查看节目笔记中的链接。

The link is in the show notes to learn more.

这不是投资建议。

Not investment advice.

纽约和德克萨斯州用户暂不支持。

Not available in New York or Texas.

有个好消息要分享。

Some exciting news.

我们推出了一档新播客，帮助大家理解加密货币的周期，学会如何应对。

We are launching a new podcast to help people figure out the crypto cycle, how to navigate it.

我认识的最厉害的加密货币周期投资者，叫迈克尔·纳托。

The best crypto cycle investor I know, his name is Michael Nato.

他运营着《DeFi报告》。

He runs The DeFi Report.

就是他，在10月10日价格暴跌前给我发了卖出提醒。

This is the guy that sent me a sell alert before the 10/10 price drop happened.

他对周期的分析一直非常精准。

His cycle analysis has been absolutely on point.

我关注他好几年了。

I've been following him for years.

今年，我们开始每周录制一期播客。

And this year, we started recording weekly podcast episodes.

每期都会深入聊他的投资组合、持仓情况、市场结构、入场点位，还有比特币和以太坊的公允价值，以及我们现在所处的周期阶段。

Each one, we get into his portfolio, what he's holding, the market structure, entry targets, fair market value of Bitcoin and Ether, and where we are in the cycle.

每周三都会更新新一期内容。

There's new episodes that are released every Wednesday.

每期三十分钟。

They're thirty minutes.

篇幅不长。

They're short.

内容紧凑有力。

They're punchy.

我觉得这次加密周期比以往更难把握，不如我们一起应对。

I think this crypto cycle is harder to navigate than most, so let's do it together.

赶紧去订阅这个播客吧。

Go subscribe to this podcast.

在你常用的平台搜索《The DeFi Report》，无论是YouTube、Apple还是Spotify，或者查看节目说明里的链接。

Search the DeFi Report wherever you get your podcasts, YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or find a link in the show notes.

现在就有一期新内容等着你。

There's a new episode waiting for you now.

Perps市场的发展主要由Hyperliquid平台推动，它在交易量上占据主导地位，不断上线新资产，彻底主导了Perp市场增长的叙事。

The the spearhead of Perps has really been pushed forward by this platform Hyperliquid, the dominant in volume and adding all these in these new assets and has really kind of just won the narrative in terms of growing the Perp market.

它确实具备你刚才提到的那些特点。

And it has a lot of the properties that you just talked about.

它运行在区块链上，因此具备一定的透明性。

You know, it was it's it is on the a blockchain and has some level of transparency as a result of that.

而且它也相当去中心化，所以我认为Hyperliquid永远不会强制要求KYC。

But, also, it is it is, you know, somewhat decentralized, and therefore, I I don't think Hyperliquid will ever mandate or enforce KYC.

这跟他们的平台理念完全是背道而驰的。

It's just kind of antagonistic to their to their platform.

它有这些出色的优势，但从美国这边来看，Hyperliquid也根本不会搞KYC。

So it has some of these amazing properties, but also from The United States side of things, I don't think Hyperliquid will ever do KYC.

既然Hyperliquid的设计理念跟现有体系格格不入，你觉得怎么才能把它引入美国市场呢？

How do you think about bringing Hyperliquid onshore inside of The United States when it is built with this particular form factor that doesn't doesn't really fit with the preexisting status quo?

对。

Yes.

亨特·拜登就是这方面的铁粉。

I Hunter Biden's a big fan of that one.

是的。

Yeah.

听我说。

Look.

我认为链上技术，不管是Hyperliquid还是其他链上市场，都将会像我说的那样，彻底改变我们的市场。

I I think onchain technology, whether it's Hyperliquid or any of these onchain markets, is something that is going to, as I said, transform our markets.

我们已经看到区块链技术的全球性，正在改变美国境内交易的方式和市场的运作模式。

And we're already seeing the the global nature of blockchain technology, transform the way that that we're transacting here in The US, way that our markets are functioning.

24小时全天候交易也是我们批准的。

Twenty four seven is also something that we greenlit.

我们早就已经在加密货币市场和预测市场中实行了这一点，但最近才发布了关于24小时交易的指导，因为交易所已经准备好了。

You know, we've had this in our crypto markets and predict prediction markets for some time now, but we just put out some guidance on twenty four seven because exchanges are ready for it.

他们对此非常期待。

They're excited about it.

我认为这主要是由区块链技术推动的，尤其是那些可以全天候交易的永续合约。

And I think that is really driven by blockchain technology, by perpetuals that are accessible twenty four seven, March.

当你观察这些链上市场，无论是永续合约还是其他类型的链上衍生品市场，链上市场确实有一些不同的考量。

When you're looking at these onchain, markets, whether it's perpetuals or or other types of of derivatives markets that are onchain, there are different considerations for onchain markets.

当然，很多流程是自动化的，智能合约解决了我们很多规则原本想强制规范的问题。

Certainly, some things are automated and and smart contracts solve a lot of the things that our rules are designed to force.

但还是有一些需要留意的地方。

But you do have considerations.

我们见过自动强平机制引发连锁清算，造成一些在美国并不常见的负面后果。

We've seen these auto deleveraging mechanisms cause some cascades of liquidations and really create some adverse consequences that in The US we're not used to.

我不会说这对投资者来说是更好还是更糟。

And I'm not gonna say that they're worse for investors or better.

在某些情况下，这些机制运行得非常好，完全按设计运作，用户也信任这段代码，明白它会如何运作，因此乐于在这种环境中交易。

In in some cases, maybe these mechanisms work very well and they work as designed, and maybe the users trust in that code and they understand that the code will work a certain way and they're they're happy to trade in that environment.

但作为监管者，这些是我们必须认真思考和评估的问题。

But there, as a regulator, things that we have to think about and consider.

所以我们非常期待这些市场在美国蓬勃发展。

So we're very excited to see these markets flourish in The United States.

我们希望为这些链上市场进入美国铺平道路，确保它们符合某种形式的监管要求。

We wanna create a path to bring these onchain markets into The United States, make sure that they comply with some form of regulation.

上一届政府一直死盯着必须来注册，严格按照1934年制定的交易所规则行事。

You know, the last administration was so fixated on you have to come in and register and comply with the the rules on the books as drafted for, you know, a 1934 exchange.

对吧？

Right?

我们正朝着未来迈进。

We're leaning into the future.

我们明白，市场在变，技术也在变。

We understand that our markets are changing, that technology is changing.

我们希望为这些新产品、新平台和新交易所量身定制监管规则，同时牢记保护投资者的重要性。

We want to tailor fit our rules and regulations for these new products and platforms and exchanges, recognizing that we need to protect investors.

我们必须确保客户资金安全，或者至少做到充分的信息披露，让参与者清楚自己在交易什么、怎么交易。

We need to make sure that customer funds are safe or at least that there's an adequate amount of disclosure and people understand what they're trading and and how they're trading.

我们正在全力推进这些工作。

So we're working on all that.

我们委员会已经采取了一系列措施，确保自托管钱包提供商无需注册为经纪商就能提供服务。

We've been taking a number of measures at the commission to to make sure that self custodial wallet providers, for example, are able to offer access without having to register as a broker.

我们正在研究代币化，以及链上资产在合约结算中的应用，诸如此类的事情。

We're looking at tokenization and and the use of onchain assets for settlement of contracts and and all of that.

所以我们正积极拥抱这项新技术。

So we're leaning into to entree technology.

我们才刚刚开始，但已经在评估这些平台，并与许多团队展开交流。

We're just getting started, but we are evaluating these platforms and engaging with many of them.

我们非常期待看到美国本土兴起的新型金融形态。

We're excited to see the new frontier finance built here in The US.

我们注意到，现实世界资产的永续合约交易量已经超过了加密货币永续合约，目前这类市场的交易量中，有超过六成都集中在石油、黄金，甚至包括这些Pre-IPO股票上。

One thing we're observing is that real world asset perps are actually dominating volume over cryptos perps, I think it's something over over 60% of the volume of the purpose market is now looking at real world assets like oil, gold, and now also these pre IPO stocks as well.

像Anthropix、BaseX、OpenAI这些公司，现在都可以通过永续合约进行交易。

So Anthropix, BaseX, OpenAI, these are all pre IPO markets that you can trade with these perpetual instruments.

这些都是美国本土企业，所以这些交易市场居然主要设在海外，确实有点奇怪。

These are our American companies, and so it's actually a bit weird that these markets are being hosted offshore.

你希望这些Pre-IPO市场从离岸转到在岸吗？

Do you want these markets to come offshore, these pre IPO, markets to come from being offshore to onshore?

看到这些离岸活动如此活跃，真的很有趣。

It's fascinating to see all of this activity offshore.

当然，我们希望这类活动能以受监管的方式在美国展开，但目前我们已经参与进来了。

Of course, we wanna see that here in The US in a regulated manner, but, we're it.

我期待与SEC的阿特金斯主席合作。

So I look forward to working with chairman Atkins over at the SEC.

很多这类产品本质上是证券型衍生品，不管是期货、掉期还是其他类型的产品。

A number of these products are security based derivatives, whether they're futures or swaps or another type of product.

这确实是我们需要共同解决的问题。

That's certainly something that we will work through together.

但我们更希望确保美国能成为新金融前沿的发源地，这意味着要推出新产品、新服务和新平台。

But but we're excited to make sure that the new frontier finance is built here in The US, and that means new products, new services, new platforms.

我们不能对这些创新感到畏惧。

And we can't fear that.

我们必须接受它，并为它设计一条可行的路径。在我看来，如果我们设置障碍，把这类活动逼到海外，它确实会跑出去，而且美国民众并不会从中受益——因为他们会用VPN照样访问。

We have to embrace it and come up with a pathway for it because in my view, if we erect barriers, if we push this activity offshore, it will go offshore, and it's not gonna benefit the American people because they're gonna go use a VPN and access it anyway.

但他们在那里完全得不到任何保护。

And they have none of the protections.

所以，如果我们能为美国找到一条出路，我们一定会去做。

So if we can come up with a path for The United States, we'll do it.

我们肯定会全力推进这件事。

And we're going to certainly work on it.

那些让大家兴奋的永续股权工具其实挺特别的，因为它是永续的。

These equity perp instruments that our people are getting excited about there, it's kind of interesting because it's a perp.

所以按理说归CFTC管，但它又是股权类产品。

So therefore, it's under the purview of the CFTC, but it's an equity.

因此，它也属于SEC的监管范围。

So it's under the purview of the SEC.

这本质上是一种混合型工具，需要你们两家紧密协作，这也正是推动加密项目和CFTC与SEC协调一致的关键所在。

It's like a perfectly a hybrid instrument that requires both of your guys' collaboration, but therefore, you know, project crypto and the harmonization of the CFTC and SEC.

所以我对这个其实不太担心。

So I'm not really worried about that.

但这种情况是前所未有的吗？

But is this unprecedented?

过去有没有其他与股权工具相关的衍生品合约，也需要CFTC和SEC合作监管的？不是在加密货币领域，而是在其他地方？

Or are there other contracts, derivative contracts that are around equity instruments that have required CFTC or and SEC collaboration in the past, like outside of crypto?

还是说这对这两个机构来说，算是比较新的情况？

Or is this something that's relatively, relatively new for these two agencies?

比如证券期货。

Well, security futures.

不管是不是永续合约，这类产品都需要两家机构共同授权。

So whether it's your perpetual or not, those products require joint, authorization by both agencies.

CFTC负责监管提供这些产品的交易平台和交易所，而交易所必须提交备案通知。

So the CFTC regulates the platforms, the exchanges that offer these products, and then the exchange that has to notice register.

然后会通过一个简化流程向SEC报备并获得批准。

So it goes through a a a shortened abbreviated registration process with the SEC and approval process there.

我们过去确实合作过，但遗憾的是，CFTC和SEC一直都在争地盘，互相较劲，所以不太愿意联手把这类产品推向市场。

So we have collaborated on that in the past, but, unfortunately, the CFTC and SEC have always been in these turf battles fighting with one another, and so they've not wanted to work together to bring these products to market.

结果呢，这些产品通常就被晾在一边，根本没法上市。

And so, usually, the products sort of wind up on the sidelines and and don't make it to market.

现在我们正在协同工作。

We're working together.

我们希望把这件事做对。

We wanna get this right.

我们想把证券期货、证券永续合约，以及其他类型的资产都顺利带到市场上。

We wanna bring security futures, security perpetuals, other types of assets to market.

我们也在共同努力，确保那些想推出这些产品、参与这些市场的人，不会再像加里·根斯勒和罗斯·本汉姆那个年代一样，被夹在两个机构的执法风暴中间。

We are working together to make sure also that persons trying to offer these products and engage in these markets aren't caught in the crosshairs like the Gary Gensler, Russ Benham years where the two agencies were just bringing enforcement actions right and left.

你刚按CFTC的要求合规了，SEC又来开罚单。

You know, you go and comply with the CFTC, and then the SEC brings an enforcement actuary.

你按CFTC的规矩做了，结果SEC那边又来追究。

You comply with the CFTC, you know, and the opposite.

所以我们正在努力解决这些问题，也很有信心这些产品很快就能面市。

So, we're working to fix all of that and, and we're optimistic that we're gonna see these products in the near future.

我觉得接下来可能要面对的一个情况是，加密货币的离岸平台和初创公司，那些更灵活的机构，已经率先行动了。

One thing I might think could be coming down the pike for this perp instrument, this this fight over the perp is that the the crypto offshore platforms, startups, the more nimble moving companies have been really first to move here.

但永续合约本身只是一种工具。

But a purpose is just an instrument.

它本质上是中立的，可以应用在任何地方，我反而觉得像CME集团这样的老牌巨头，还有那些已经在做大宗商品交易的庞然大物，也在密切关注这个领域。

It is a neutral instrument and can be applied anywhere, and I would actually expect some of the incumbents like the CME group and the the the commodities gargantuan that are already out there are also looking at this.

毕竟，他们掌控着大宗商品的交易量。

And, you know, they they own the commodities volume.

他们手里握着小麦、原油，还有各种这类商品的交易。

They own, like, the the wheat and oil and, you know, all all that kind of stuff.

作为监管方，你怎么平衡创新者——比如Coinbase、Robinhood、Hyperliquid——你希望这些市场能回到境内、合规运作，但同时又得面对这些体量庞大的老牌机构，他们动作迟缓，却掌握着实物商品的交割体系。

How, as a regulator, do you balance the the disruptors, you know, the Coinbase, the Robinhood, the Hyperliquids, because you want these markets to come onshore and be compliant.

而这种交割环节的复杂性，恰恰是Hyperliquid这类平台根本不想碰的，尤其是当他们交易原油的时候。

But we have these gargantuan incumbents with all the commodities who are just gonna be slow to move, but they they do all of the actual, like, delivery of the actual real commodity underlying, which is like a nuance that I don't think Hyperliquid wants to at all deal with when it trades oil.

所以，谁最终能拿到哪些业务，背后会有一番博弈。

And so there's going to be a little bit of, like, Tetris ing behind who gets what.

我不太确定这会怎么发展，但作为监管者，你将会处于这场博弈的中心。

And I don't really know how that unfolds, but as a regulator, you're going to be at the center of this.

我感觉我刚才有点在畅想未来了。

I would imagine this is me kind of just like future escaping here.

我刚才说的这些，是现实存在的吗？

Is is what I'm talking about real?

未来这些老牌机构和创新公司之间，会不会为了衍生品市场的地盘爆发一场真正的争夺？

Is that is there a real fight down the line between these incumbents and the disruptors over, like, the turf war of the perp?

听好了。

Look.

对于所有这些产品，我们都希望把它们纳入美国的监管框架内。

I I think with all of these various products, we want to bring them into The US in a regulated context.

我认为，这两个监管机构必须紧密协作，才能把这一切做好。

I I think the the two agencies certainly have to work together to get all of this right.

对于现有交易所，我们机构的职责是确保公平竞争。

When it comes to incumbent exchanges, our mandate as an agency is fair competition.

我们并不阻止任何现有企业进入这些市场并推出新产品。

So we're not standing in the way of any incumbents from coming into these markets and offering new products.

我们非常欢迎创新。

We love to see innovation.

我们也乐见新进入者和老牌企业之间的竞争。

We love to see, competition between new entrants and old entrants.

我们就是为此而来的。

So so we're here for that.

当然，有些交易所已经合法注册，CFTC和SEC这两个机构需要协同合作，确保它们的产品能顺利上市。

Certainly, with some of these, exchanges, they're duly registered, and there's aspects where the two agencies, the CFTC and SEC, will need to work together to make sure they can bring their products to market.

对此，我们充满期待。

But we're excited about that.

不过我想明确一点：关于某些交易产品是否可用的指控，我们的立场一直很清晰。

What I do wanna get clear though is that when it comes to, some of the, allegations around what products are available for trading, we've been very clear.

我们正在推进这件事，总统在总统工作组报告中也明确提到了这一点。

We are starting and and the president also asked for this in his president's working group report.

这完全符合政府几个月前就表达过的立场。

This is something that's very much in line with what the administration has already said, many months ago.

我们现在要推出加密货币永续合约。

We're coming to to the market with crypto perps.

其他产品我们也会考虑，比如农产品。

We will consider other products, whether it's agricultural.

我们对这方面确实有些担忧。

We we are concerned about that.

我们并不觉得玉米永续合约有什么必要性。

We don't necessarily think that people, that that there's a place for corn perpetual contracts.

目前为止，我们还没收到过相关的需求。

We actually haven't gotten requests for that.

但如果有人真想推进，我们也会认真评估。

But to the extent, firms want to engage on that, we'll consider it.

但说到你提出的交付供应问题，从商业现实来看，这些合约的到期时间是有原因的，因为相关商品正好在那个时段收获。

But to your point, the deliverable supply issue, looking at the commercial realities, some of these contracts, they're dated for a reason because the commodity comes to harvest during that period.

市场上还有其他季节性变化。

There's other seasonal changes in the market.

所以，玉米或活牛的永续合约可能并不合适，我们目前也完全没有批准任何这类产品。

And so it may not make sense to have a corn or a live cattle perpetual contract, and we certainly have not greenlit any of that.

我们在公告中已经明确表示，如果有人想推出这类产品，必须与我们的工作人员进行深入沟通。

We've been very clear in our release that that's something that we would expect heavy engagement with the staff if someone were to try to bring to market.

还有一些产品更接近加密货币，我们很乐意参与讨论，但短期内我们重点关注的两个领域是更多加密产品和部分股权类产品，而股权类产品的沟通将由证交会和商品期货交易委员会共同进行。

There are other products that, may be closer to crypto that that we're, happy to engage on, But the two areas where we expect engagement in near term are additional crypto products and some of these equity products, and that equity engagement will be between the the SEC and the CFTC.

也许我有点跑题了，毕竟我们还需要借助PIPP工具，把整个加密行业引入国内。

Maybe I'm getting a little bit a bit ahead of myself then in the sense that we have a whole entire crypto industry that we need to bring onshore using the PIPP instrument.

我们也会谈谈股权永续合约，因为这在当下确实相关。

We will also talk about the equity perps because that is simply just relevant that's here today.

等到永续合约发展起来，CME集团和芝加哥的现有机构自然会去操作他们的永续产品，但那些事我们留到2027、2028年再考虑，现在我们只聚焦眼前正在发生的事。

And as the perp grows and the CME group and the incumbents inside of the in Chicago, they'll get to they'll do their perp things in the future, but let's just worry about that then in 2027, 2028 and down down the line, and we'll just worry about what's happening here and then now.