Robinhood Chain挑战纽交所/纳斯达克 | Robinhood Crypto总经理Johann Kerbrat

孟加拉化。

Bengalization.

今天在节目中，我邀请到了罗宾汉的约翰·科布罗。

Today on the show, I have Johann Kerbrot from Robinhood.

他是罗宾汉的总经理，他们即将公布一个相当酷的消息——罗宾汉测试链。

He's the general manager of Robinhood, and they are announcing something pretty cool, the Robinhood chain Testnet.

我认为我们今年大概会上线主网，但今天我们将详细介绍罗宾汉测试链及其所有相关内容。

I think we'll probably get the main net live sometime this year, but today we're getting the details of Robinhood Testnet and everything that comes with it.

因此，我向约翰问了很多关于罗宾汉测试链在罗宾汉生态系统中所起作用的问题。

And so I was able to ask Johann a bunch of questions about what the role of the Robinhood test net is in the Robinhood ecosystem.

我的想法是，这是他们试图与纳斯达克和纽约证券交易所正面竞争的尝试。

My my idea for this is this is their attempt to go toe to toe with Nasdaq and the New York Stock Exchange.

我们知道我们之前在《银行》节目中已经讨论过这个话题。

We know we've we've talked about this on Bank of before.

我们知道纳斯达克和纽约证券交易所都有自己的代币化区块链战略。

We know the Nasdaq and the New York Stock Exchange has their own tokenization blockchain strategy.

每一个都略有不同，但它们都在进入区块链领域，做的是区块链而非比特币的事情，试图利用区块链技术和通证化来提升产品品质。

Each one is a little bit different from each other, but they are going into the world of blockchain and doing the blockchain not Bitcoin thing, trying to use blockchain technology and tokenization to just improve the quality of their product.

Robinhood 也在做同样的事，但方式上我觉得更符合我们在 Bankless 关注的核心理念。

Robinhood is doing the same thing, but in the in a in a manner that I think is just more aligned with what we care about here on Bankless.

他们通过 Robinhood Chain 和以太坊二层网络构建了一个开放生态系统，这是一个无需许可的链，与纳斯达克和纽约证券交易所截然不同。

They're doing it with an open ecosystem on Robinhood Chain and Ethereum layer two, a permission permissionless chain unlike Nasdaq, unlike the New York Stock Exchange.

当然，纳斯达克和纽约证券交易所只是将股票上链，仅用区块链技术来增强通证化股票的功能。

Of course, Nasdaq, New York Stock Exchange, they put equities on their chain and they just are using blockchain technology to boost what tokenized equities can do.

而 Robinhood 则将通证化股票放在 Robinhood Chain 上，同样是采用开放的方式。

Well, Robinhood is putting tokenized equities on Robinhood chain, again, in the open manner.

这真正契合了我认为公有、无需许可区块链独特而精彩的地方。

So really aligned with what I think is special and cool about public permissionless blockchains.

因此，我向 Johann 询问了 Robinhood Chain 的整体战略、上线计划以及测试网的所有细节。

And so I was able to ask Johann about the the whole strategy and the launch of Robinhood chain and all the details around the testnet.

但我还借此机会和他聊了很多其他事情，尤其是让我感到特别好奇的那些：Robinhood 所做的战略投资。

But I also got the opportunity to talk to him about a bunch of other things as well, especially these What was uniquely curious to me is these strategic investments that Robinhood makes.

他们对Lighter进行了战略投资，这是以太坊上的二层永续合约堆栈，还有Talon，这个类似后端连接平台，能让多家经纪商和交易所汇聚到一个大平台上。

They made a strategic investment into Lighter, the layer two perp stacks on Ethereum, and also Talon, which is this kinda like back end connectivity platform that allows multiple brokerages and exchanges to all kind of coalesce into one big platform.

这实际上直接切入了Coinbase的增长战略，就是为像嘉信理财或富达这样的机构提供白标服务，任何想为客户提供加密货币但不想自己开发代码的机构，都可以在后台直接使用Coinbase。

And it's actually penetrating directly into Coinbase's strategy for growth, is being like a white label for places like Charles Schwab or Fidelity or anybody who wants to offer crypto to their clients but doesn't want to, you know, roll their own code, they can just use Coinbase in the background.

而Talon所做的，以及Robinhood对Talon进行的战略投资。

Well, what Talend does, and Robinhood did a strategic investment into Talend.

所以我就想，这到底是怎么回事？

So I'm like, what's going on here?

我也就这些问题询问了约翰。

And I was able to ask Johann about these questions as well.

还聊了许多其他话题。

Bunch of other topics too.

Robinhood钱包进展如何？

What's up with the Robinhood wallet?

它如何整合代币化股票的演进，这些股票目前处于什么阶段，以及它们是否会进入美国市场？

How does that integrate the evolution of tokenized stocks and where those are at and where whether those are coming to The US or not?

因为目前这些仅对欧盟参与者开放。

Cause right now, those are just available for EU participants.

总的来说，这期节目非常棒。

Overall, really great episode.

约翰恩在Robinhood的领导力让我非常欣赏。

Johann, I really like his leadership over at Robin Hood.

恭喜Robinhood成功发布了测试网。

And so congrats to the Robin Hood for getting the test net out the door.

这个很快就会推出。

That's coming.

就是今天。

That's today.

这是在播客中发布的公告。

That's the announcement here on the podcast.

你将听到关于这些以及更多内容。

You're gonna hear all about that and more.

但在我们与Johad的对话之前，先听一段来自我们的朋友和赞助商Rocket Pool的广告，他们即将推出备受期待的Saturn升级。

But first, before we get into the conversation with Johad, a message from our friends and sponsors over at Rocket Pool who are launching the long awaited Saturn upgrade.

这是自Rocket Pool上线以来最大的升级之一。

One of the probably the biggest Rocket Pool upgrade ever shipped since launch.

此次升级带来了RPL费用切换功能。

Just bringing with it a RPL fee switch.

现在，质押RPL将使你获得由ETH支付的协议收入分成。

So staking RPL now earns you a share of the protocol revenue paid to you and by ETH.

我们都知道，Rocket Pool的持有者都喜爱ETH。

We all know that Rocket Pool holders love ETH.

ETH就是货币。

ETH is money.

此外，几天后还将为ETH验证者和大型池子开放功能。

And then also it's coming with it for ETH validators and mega pools open up in a few days.

这正是Rocket Pool的全部优势所在。

That's the whole benefit of Rocket Pool.

你不需要拥有全部32个ETH来质押，现在你只需拥有4个ETH，就可以让其他人补足剩余部分。

You don't have to have all 32 ETH to stake, you can now just have 4 ETH, then you allow other people to come backfill the rest.

某种程度上就是团队质押。

Squad staking in a sense.

如果你打算参与此操作，或想了解有关Saturn升级的其他信息，请查看节目说明中的链接：bankless.cc/rocketpool，即可开始。

So if you are looking to do this or any other information about the Saturn upgrade, there is a link in the show notes, bankless.cc/rocketpool to get started.

让我们直接进入与Robinhood的Johann的对话。

Let's go ahead and get right into the conversation with Johann from Robinhood.

我今天和Johan Kerberat在一起。

I'm here with Johan Kerberat.

他是Robinhood的加密货币业务总经理。

He is the GM of crypto at Robinhood.

Johan，欢迎再次做客我们的播客。

Johan, welcome back to the podcast.

谢谢你的邀请。

Thanks for having me.

所以，关于Robinhood，你们在加密货币领域正在做很多大事，大家通常知道你们是一家零售投资平台，但你们推出了Robinhood Chain，去年夏天在Con上宣布的，还有股票代币。

So, re Robinhood, doing some big things in crypto as we know, usually known as a retail investing platform, but you guys have Robinhood Chain, which you guys announced in con last summer, and also alongside of stock tokens.

当你们把这些结合起来时，是想直接与纳斯达克和纽约证券交易所竞争吗？

When you put these things together, you guys trying to go toe to toe with Nasdaq and New York Stock Exchange?

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，这可以看作是一种方式。

I mean, I think it's a bit of a way to see it.

你知道吗？

You know?

我认为我们一直在说，加密货币和区块链不仅仅是交易资产。

I think what we've been saying is that crypto and blockchain is not just trading off asset.

它也是一种可以用来取代金融系统的科技。

It's also technology that can be used to replace financial systems.

而且，我们看到传统系统中有很多可以改进的地方。

And, you know, we see a lot of, thing that can be improved on the traditional system.

它仍然不能做到7x24小时不间断运行。

It's still not working twenty four seven.

现在买股票并完成结算仍然不是即时的，而这些功能在加密货币领域早已存在很久了。

It's still not instant to buy a stock and to settle, and all of this already exists in crypto for a long time.

因此，我们认为可以将两者结合，真正利用区块链技术作为运营金融系统的新方式。

So we think that we can bring the two together and actually use the blockchain technology as a as a new way to operate the financial system.

所以你们有一个重大公告。

So you guys have a pretty big announcement.

Robinhood测试网即将上线发布。

Robinhood Testnet is getting launched and out the door.

这对用户意味着什么？

So what does that mean for people?

我能不能去测试网上自己捣鼓一下？

Will I be able to go tinker around on a Testnet?

能给我个具体时间吗？

What give me the dates.

给我详细说说。

Give me the the details.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

That's right.

所以，我们在共识大会期间于香港宣布了这一消息，这个公开测试网的主要目标是让区块链开发者和用户开始测试并评估该网络。

So, you know, we we announced it in Hong Kong for at consensus, and really the goal of this public test net is to allow blockchain developer and user to start testing and evaluate the network.

真正的目标是进行实验、开发应用，并获得Robinhood的认证。我们已经收到了大量关于去中心化代币化平台、去中心化借贷平台和去中心化永续合约交易所的请求，这些都是令人兴奋的方向。

And really the goal is to experiment, develop application, get them certified by Robinhood, and we are seeing a bunch of requests already for decentralized tokenized platform, decentralized lending platform, decentralized perps exchange, all the things that have have been exciting.

对我们来说真正有趣的是，经过几个月的私有测试网阶段后，终于能够公开构建，逐步迈向主网发布的阶段。

And what really is interesting for us is to be able to finally build in public after a few months in private test net, you know, getting to a step where we will be able to launch it in the main net.

对于Robinhood Chain，我原本认为Robinhood可能采取两种策略。

So there there were two possible strategies that I could have seen Robinhood take with Robinhood Chain.

一种是更偏向封闭的、孤立的后端系统，仅作为Robinhood运营的账本，连接以太坊并托管代币化资产——而你们已经走上了这条路。

One would be kind of more of a closed door siloed back end office for Robinhood, just a ledger that Robinhood operates that connects to Ethereum and has tokenized assets that that you guys have gone down that road.

看来你们选择的是另一条路，即打造一个更开放的开发者生态系统。

It seems to be you guys are going down the other road which is more of an open developer ecosystem.

你们仍然可以做所有后台账本的工作。

You still can do all the back office ledger stuff.

听起来你们会这么做，但你们选择大力推动这个方向，使其成为一个更开放的开发者生态系统。

It sounds like you will do that, but you guys are choosing to really push this into being more of an open developer ecosystem.

谈谈你们在这个方向上的目标。

Talk about that the goal in that direction.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道，我们认为我们多年来在Robinhood构建的整个系统，其他公司、其他机构也可以使用。

You know, I I think the way we see it is that all the system that we've been building for for years at Robinhood, a lot of other company, a lot of other other institution can can use them.

因此，仅仅在我们自己的小角落里构建系统并没有太大意义。

And so it doesn't really make a lot of sense to just build in our in our little corner.

我们认为，Robinhood实际上将是这条链的第一个用户。

What we think is that Robineau is actually going to be the first user of the chain.

所以，你看，我们将能够根据自身需求定制一条链，并且我们认为许多其他机构也将能够使用它。

So, you know, we'll be able to customize a chain for our needs, and we think that a lot of other institution will be able to to use it.

而且，慢慢地，你会开始看到我们推出的一些功能，其背后正是使用了这条链。

And, you know, slowly, you will start seeing some of the features that we are launching using the chain in the background.

这仅仅是因为，长期以来，我们在构建许多功能时，就一直怀有这样一个想法：总有一天，我们会拥有自己的链。

And that's just because, you know, for a long time, a lot of the features that we were building, we were thinking about this idea that we will have our own chain at some point someday.

你看，我们利用Arbitrum并在以太坊二层网络上构建的这条链，其美妙之处在于，我们之前已经能够推出一些产品了。

You know, the the beauty of the the stock that we built using Arbitrum and using an l two on Ethereum is that we've been able to launch some product before.

例如，股票代币，它们原本是在Arbitrum上运行的。

For example, the stock token, they were alive on Arbitrum.

而且由于是同类型的网络，当Robinhood链上线主网时，我们能够将它们迁移过去。

And because it's the same kind of network, we're able to transition them into the Robinhood chain when it's going to be on the main net.

所以，你看，慢慢地，我们的目标是真正公开地构建，确保我们使用的所有系统都能被他人使用，并切实推进利用区块链技术构建金融体系这一理念。

So, you know, slowly, our our goal is to really build in public, make sure that all the system that we use are usable by other people, and really advance the idea of, like, financial system system using blockchain technology.

2024年，新兴市场为投资者创造了超过1150亿美元的年化收益，收益率在10%到40%之间。

In 2024, emerging markets generated over a $115,000,000,000 in annual yield for investors, with yields ranging between 10 to 40%.

这些是地球上最高、最持久的收益率之一。

These are some of the highest, most persistent yields on earth.

问题是什么？

The problem?

DeFi无法触及这些收益。

DeFi can't access them.

Bricks改变了这一现状。

Bricks changes this.

基于Mega ETH构建的Bricks，将新兴市场的货币市场和主权套利转化为可组合的底层模块，用户可以直接从钱包中访问。

Built on Mega ETH, Bricks takes emerging market money markets and sovereign carry and turns them into composable primitives you can access straight from your wallet.

虽然DeFi投资者在稳定币和国债上获得3%到6%的收益，但机构投资者一直通过主权货币政策支持，收获着10%到50%的收益率。

While DeFi investors earn three to 6% on stablecoins and T bills, institutions have been harvesting 10 to 50% yields backed by sovereign monetary policy.

Bricks通过机构级的灰色代币化、本地银行通道、跨司法管辖区的合规性以及实时稳定币结算，将这两个世界连接起来。

Bricks connects these worlds with institutional gray tokenization, local banking rails, compliance across jurisdictions, and real time stablecoin settlement.

Bricks承担了繁重的工作，使得DeFi最终能够基于现实世界的收益，接触到真实的抵押品和结构化产品。

Bricks does the heavy lifting so DeFi can finally access real collateral and structured products on top of real world yield.

即使是最好的套利交易也触手可及。

Even the best carry trades can be within reach.

Bricks 将 DeFi 的承诺带到新兴市场，将新兴市场的收益直接带到您的钱包。

Bricks brings DeFi's promise to the emerging world and brings emerging market yield to your wallet.

让收益通过 Bricks 流动。

Let the yield flow with Bricks.

如果您能用与交易加密货币相同的工具和速度交易黄金、外汇和全球市场，会怎样？

What if you could trade gold, forex, and global markets with the same tools and speed that you use for crypto?

这正是 Bitget TradFi 所实现的。

That's exactly what Bitget TradFi unlocks.

在经历强劲的测试版需求后，包括单日黄金交易量超过一亿美元，Bitget TradFi 现已对所有用户开放。

After strong beta demand, including over a $100,000,000 in single day gold trading volume, Bitget TradFi is now live for all users.

在您现有的 Bitget 账户内，您可以交易涵盖外汇、贵金属、指数和商品的 79 种金融工具，所有交易均直接以 USDT 结算。

Inside of your existing Bitget account, you can trade 79 instruments across forex, precious metals, indices, and commodities, all settled directly in USDT.

无需切换平台，也无需法币兑换。

No platform switching and no fiat conversions.

这是Bitget通用交易所愿景的体现。

This is Bitget's universal exchange vision in action.

加密货币与传统金融并肩而立。

Crypto and traditional finance side by side.

你将获得深厚的流动性、低滑点和最高500倍的杠杆，让你将加密策略应用于宏观市场。

You get deep liquidity, low slippage, and leverage up to 500 x, letting you apply crypto strategies to macro markets.

对传统金融还不熟悉？

New to TradFi?

从黄金开始。

Start with gold.

黄金兑美元货币对流动性强，受宏观因素驱动，是加密货币与传统市场之间自然的桥梁。

The gold USD pair is liquid, macro driven, and a familiar natural bridge between crypto and traditional markets.

立即在bitget.com交易黄金。

Try trading gold on Bitget now at bitget.com.

点击节目说明中的链接获取更多信息。

Click the link in the show notes for more information.

这不是财务建议。

This is not financial advice.

所以在加密货币和以太坊生态系统中，我们之前已经见过类似的故事。

So in the crypto and Ethereum ecosystem, we've kind of seen similar stories like this before.

对吧？

Right?

一个由拥有巨大实力和广泛影响力的组织推出的基于EVM的二层网络。

A a lay an EVM based layer two launched by an organization that has, you know, a ton of, like, might and power and distribution.

这并不是我们第一次看到这样的故事。

It's not this is not the first time that we have seen this story.

那么，Robinhood链的机会与之前的链相比，独特之处在哪里？

So what's what's unique about the Robinhood chain opportunity versus the the chains that have come before it?

是的。

Yeah.

我们非常专注于金融应用方面。

We're really focused on the financial application side of things.

你知道的。

You know?

我认为，Robinhood拥有独特的优势，我们在股票、期权以及传统的经纪系统方面拥有深厚的专业知识，同时在加密货币领域也有深入的专长。

I I think we have a unique position at Robinhood where we have this very deep expertise around equities, around option, the the the brokerage kind of old system, And we also have this this deep expertise in in crypto.

因此，我们即将推出的首个功能，不会像一些竞争对手那样聚焦于MEME币交易或Launchpad这类东西。

So for us, the first feature that we're going to launch is less about, you know, trading of Memcorn or about Launchpad and this kind of thing that we've seen on on some of the competitors.

它将更侧重于我们一直讨论的金融工具——代币化资产、代币化股票、代币化现实世界资产，我们对此深信不疑，并认为这将是改变整个系统的方式。

It's going to be a bit more on this financial instrument that we've been talking around, tokenized asset, tokenized stocks, tokenized real world assets that, you know, we are really big believer in, and we think it's going to be the way to to change the system.

但归根结底，我们也不想替所有人做决定。

But at the end of the day, we also don't wanna decide for everybody.

对吧？

Right?

所以，这个二层网络仍将是一个无需许可的二层网络。

So the the l two is still going to be a permissionless l two.

每个人都可以在上面构建应用。

Everyone will be able to build on it.

因此，如果有人想开发我们没有重点关注的应用程序，他们仍然可以在Robinhood链上进行开发，所有使用Robinhood产品连接到该链的人都能访问它。

And so if someone wanna develop an application that we are not focusing on, they will still be able to do it on the Robinhood chain, and everyone who is kind of connected to it using the Robinhood products will be able to access it.

你之前在谈到开发者在Robinhood链上构建应用时，提到了‘由Robinhood认证’这个说法。

You earlier, you said when talking about the developers building on Robinhood chain, you mentioned this thing certified by Robinhood.

那是什么意思？

What does that mean?

你能再详细解释一下吗？

Can you go into that a little bit more?

是的。

Yeah.

这并不是说我会亲自介入并给某些东西盖章认证。

It it it's not necessarily certified in the sense, like, I'm going to come in and and put a stamp on things.

但我们拥有一个Robin钱包。

But, you know, we have a a Robin Wallet.

我们有一个连接了大量加密系统的Robinhood应用。

We have a Robinhood app that is connected to a lot of crypto system.

因此，为了连接链上的开发者应用，我们必须确保它符合我们关于客户保护、监管等所有相关要求。

And so for us to connect to a developer app that is on the chain, we will have to make sure that, you know, it match all the requirements that we have around customer protection, around regulation, all these things.

所以，如果我们想在我们这边批准某个应用，这就是它的含义。

And so that's what we it would mean if we wanted to kind of approve an app on our side.

但同样，权限必须开放，这样任何人都可以在其上构建任何东西。

But, again, permission must change, so, you know, anyone can build anything on it.

你知道，我们不会批准每一个应用。

You know, we we are not going to be approving every single application there.

对。

Right.

一些开发者构建的应用或工具可能会获得Robinhood的认证，并在Robinhood的应用体验中获得更高的曝光和分发支持。

Some applications, some tools that developers built might be certified by Robinhood and might get elevated in the Robinhood experience with the apps and distribution that you guys have.

没错。

Exactly.

太好了。

Cool.

对于那些获得认证的应用来说，这是一种相当强大的竞争优势。

It's it's a kind of a pretty strong competitive advantage to the apps that do earn that certification.

所以，这么说吧。

So, you know, in quotes.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Absolutely.

你知道，我们的目标实际上是扩展我们在链上能够实现的功能。

You know, our goal is really to be able to expand what we are able to do on chain.

你知道，Robinhood 每年都会在加密货币上投入一系列资源。

You know, Robinhood, there's a set of resources that we are spending on crypto every every year.

因此，对我们来说，有一些特定功能是我们感兴趣的，因为我们的客户提出了需求，或者对它们非常感兴趣。

And so for us, we have, like, specific feature that we're interested because our our customer asking for it or are really excited by it.

但归根结底，这个领域有太多事情可以做了。

But at the end of the day, there's so much to do in this in this world.

对吧？

Right?

我们才刚刚进入区块链和加密货币的初期阶段。

Like, we are just at the very beginning and the early years of blockchain and crypto.

所以我们不想限制任何人继续构建。

And so we don't wanna limit anyone to to keep building.

我们认为，我们将能够实现许多合规系统，用于代币化股票等一切相关功能，任何人都可以根据需要将其集成到自己的应用中。

And we think that we're going to be able to implement a lot of compliance system and system proper to tokenize stocks and everything like that, that everyone will be able to use if they want into their application.

因此，我非常期待看到人们会创造出什么，以及他们如何在我们的网络基础上构建，并支持大家对金融系统提出的各种想法。

So I'm super excited about actually seeing what people come up with and what they are building on top of our network and and how they are going to be able to support kind of the the different ideas that everyone has around financial systems.

好的。

Okay.

测试网已经上线运行。

So Testnet is up and running.

开发者可以去尝试、体验，并尝试构建可能获得认证的应用。

Developers can go tinker with it, play on it, try and build an app that might get be certified.

从现在开始，时间表是怎样的？

What what does the timeline look like moving forward from here?

你们有没有一个主网的发布时间目标？或者测试网接下来会遇到哪些主要挑战？

Do you guys have, like, a main net target date, or what are some of the the next, like, hurdles for the test net?

我不认为我们有明确的截止日期。

I wouldn't say we have, a hard deadline.

对我们来说，目标是让所有开发者都能参与到这个生态中来。

I think for us, the goal is to get in in in the room with all the developer.

我们计划举办黑客松活动，了解人们是如何使用这条链的，收集反馈，确保它能完全按照我们的预期运行，然后我们才会正式启动主网。

You know, we are we are planning on running hackathon and understanding, like, how people are using the chain, getting the feedback, making sure that it it's, you know, working exactly how we wanna we want it to work, and then we'll be able to to launch through to the main net.

但我可以说，通常两次阶段之间不会花太长时间，所以我希望我们很快就能真正投入使用。

But I will say, usually, it doesn't take that much time before the two sessions, so I'm hopeful that we will be able to start using it for real pretty soon.

纽约证券交易所正在推行一项区块链代币化战略。

The New York Stock Exchange, they have this blockchain tokenization strategy.

他们正在构建一个全新的24/7代币化市场，其核心基础设施采用链上结算方式，这相当于一次后台系统的升级。

What they're doing is they're building this new twenty four seven tokenized marketplace that has this, like, on chain style settlement settlement as some of this core rails, kind of like a back office upgrade.

纳斯达克正在保留其现有市场，但允许DTCC在交易后可选择以代币化形式交付购买代币。

Nasdaq, they're doing they're keeping their existing market, but they're allowing the DTCC to optionally deliver purchase tokens in tokenized form after the trade.

然后是Robinhood的策略，即Robinhood链与代币化股票。

And then and then there's the Robinhood strategy, which is the Robinhood chain with with tokenized stocks.

看起来这三种策略虽然不同，但都指向了相同的结论和结果。

It seems to be that these are three different strategies tie kind of pointing towards the same conclusion, towards the same outcome.

所以，就像回到开头的问题一样，你们似乎正利用这个机会全力以赴，颠覆一些非常庞大的玩家。

So, like, kinda like going going back and reiterating the kind of the question in the beginning, it seems you guys are using this opportunity to kind of swing for the fences here and to disrupt some pretty big players.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，我认为从Robinhood创立之初，我们就一直在这么做。

I mean I mean, I think, you know, we've been doing that since the beginning of, Robinhood.

比如公平。

Like Fair.

我们推出的产品一直都在相当程度上颠覆金融体系，这也是我们内部设计产品的思维方式。

Product that we launch has been fairly disrupting the the financial system, and and that's how we think about building product internally.

比如，我们通常希望在拥有显著优势时推出新产品，那时我们确信能为客户带来巨大价值。

Like, you know, like, we we usually wanna launch new products when feel like we have a big differentiator, where we feel like we can actually bring a lot of value to customers.

因此，自去年CEO弗拉德在一篇评论文章中首次提及代币化股票以来，看到许多其他公司也开始谈论这个话题，这很有趣。

And so it's been interesting to see, you know, since last year when Vlad, CEO, first started to talk about tokenized stocks in in an op ed, you you actually saw, like, a lot of players starting to talk about it.

我认为，这正是我喜欢在Robinhood工作的原因——我们正是那种能够真正推动并改变人们思维方式的公司之一。

So I think that's where, you know, I love working for Robinhood because we we are one of these player that is actually able to move and change the way people are thinking.

但更直接地回答你的问题，我认为你会看到各种不同的系统并存。

But to answer more your question, you know, I I think you will see different system everywhere.

就像我们现在看到稳定币以多种形式、由多家公司推出一样。

Like, the same way we are starting to see Stablecoin in in multiple shape or form, multiple companies doing it.

你会看到不同的区块链以及不同的产品代币化方式。

You will see different chain and different ways of tokenizing product.

对我们来说，我们关注的是如何让客户使用起来更简单。

I think for us, what we're looking at is how do we make it simple to customer.

客户不应该关心后台发生了什么。

Like, the customer should not know what's going on in the background.

他们不需要了解这些，就像他们不需要知道发送短信或电子邮件时使用的协议一样。

They don't need to know that, like the same way that they don't need to know what protocols they use when they send a text or an email to someone.

我们希望让他们能够接触到这些股票，并享受到底层区块链技术的所有优势，比如24小时不间断交易。

We want to give them the access to these equities and being able to have all the advantage of the blockchain technology under it, like, twenty four seven trading.

但与此同时，我们也希望将我们构建的代币化引擎应用于不仅仅是公开股票。

But at the same time, we also want to use that tokenization engine that we built for more than just public stock.

对吧？

Right?

所以我们去年在私募股权方面做了一些尝试，目前仍然对此非常感兴趣。

So we, you know, we did some experimentation with private equity last year, and we're still extremely interested by that.

我们认为现实世界资产也可以被代币化，比如房地产、艺术品以及其他资产。

We think that real world assets can be tokenized as well, like real estate, arts, other things.

所以我们真心希望，将来会有这样一个时刻：所有这些资产都存在于一个生态系统中，像Robinhood这样的平台界面能够告诉你，‘好的，你想买这只股票或这个产品，但最优价格是在这条链的这个系统上，我会帮你搞定，你无需担心跨链燃气费、私钥以及所有这类事情。’

And so really, we we hope that there is a time where all these assets, we all live within an ecosystem, and basically interfaces like Robinhood will be able to tell you, like, okay, you wanna buy this stock or you wanna buy this product, but the best price is on this chain with this system, and I will get it for you, and you won't have to worry about bridging gas tokens, private keys, and all these kind of things.

让我们来了解一下股票代币的最新进展。

Let's go and get an update on, stock tokens.

你能提醒我一下，今天谁可以访问股票代币吗？

So can you just remind me and listeners who has access to stock tokens today?

据我了解，美国公民目前无法访问股票代币。

And as I understand it, US US citizens don't have access to stock tokens.

这种情况最近会有改变吗？

Will that change anytime soon?

这背后的情况是怎样的？

What's the story here?

是的。

Yeah.

目前，我们在欧盟推出了这项服务。

Currently, we we launched it in the EU.

因此，所有欧盟和欧洲经济区的成员国公民都可以访问。

So all the the cent Saudi member of the EU and EAs have access to it.

目前美国公民还无法使用，我们也在积极跟进这件事。

Currently not a US citizen, so we are we are, you know, out of work on it as well.

而且现在有很多讨论正在进行。

And there's a lot of discussion happening.

我相信你在华盛顿也看到了关于CLIDA法案的讨论，以及它对代币化资产意味着什么，还有代币化证券到底算不算证券。

I'm sure you've seen in DC around the CLIDA Act and what does it mean for tokenized assets and is a tokenized security or security.

而且，你知道，美国证券交易委员会对此已经相当明确了。

And, you know, the SEC has been pretty clear about that.

所以，我认为，很多在美国以外发生的创新，现在将会回归，因为听起来我们很快就会有相关法规了。

So, you know, I I I think a lot of the innovation that has been happening outside of The US is going to come back now that we it sounds like getting regulation pretty quickly.

但目前我们的重心一直在欧盟，你知道，那是第一阶段。

But but right now our focus has been in the EU and, you know, that was phase one.

然后第二阶段是24/7交易和无许可交易，我们希望能尽快推出。

And then phase two was the twenty four seven trading and the permission less trading, which we were hoping to be able to launch soon.

所以，你知道的，这方面还会有更多进展。

So, you know, more more to come on that.

但对我们来说，我认为真正令人兴奋的是我们能够扩展的方式。

But I think for us, what's been really exciting is the way that we've been able to expand.

我们六月份在戛纳推出了200种股票代币，而现在我们的股票代币种类已超过2000种。

We launched in June in Cannes with 200 stock tokens, and now we are more than 2,000 stock token.

这确实表明，我们构建的引擎能够兼容多种类型的资产，并且我们能够快速扩展产品种类，这可以说是我们产品最受期待的一点。

And that really shows that, you know, the engine that we built is compatible with many type of assets and that we are able to grow the offering quickly, which has been, like, one of the most requested thing for for our product.

人们不仅仅想接触少数几种资产。

People don't wanna just access a few assets.

他们希望能够接触到整个市场。

They wanna be able to access the entire market.

在我看来，我的意思是，代币化股票、代币化股权、代币化证券这个垂直领域，是2025年和2026年加密货币领域最令人兴奋的部分之一。

From my vantage, the I mean, the tokenized stocks, tokenized equities, tokenized securities vertical is one of the more exciting parts about crypto in 2025 and 2026.

在我看来，这个领域在加密货币链上至少存在流动性方面的限制。

It seems to me that there is a constraint on this sector in crypto on chain at least with liquidity.

虽然大家对此都感到兴奋，但要在链上建立一个真正具有流动性的证券代币市场似乎是一个制约因素，这会带来第二、第三阶的连锁影响，因为如果这些代币化证券缺乏强劲的流动性，它们参与DeFi的能力就会受到很大限制。

While everyone's kind of excited about it, getting actual a liquid market of the security tokens on chain seems to be a constraint, which it has second, third order consequences because if there's not strong liquidity on some of these tokenized securities, it really limits their ability to be in DeFi.

你知道，这仅仅是对资产表达方式的一种限制。

You know, it's it's just a constraint on the expression of the asset.

如果那里没有足够的流动性，当你用它作为抵押品时，比如在Aave上，你就得担心被清算。

If there's not a lot of liquidity there, then you can't you have to worry about a liquidation when if you use it as collateral and things like Aave.

因此，流动性问题对于任何试图将股票和代币上链的人来说都是一个根本性的挑战。

And so the liquidity problem is pretty fundamental to anyone trying to put on chain stocks and tokens.

我怀疑Robinhood在这里可能有一些其他参与者不具备的优势，因为你们拥有一个真正的交易所。

I suspect Robinhood might have some advantages here that other players don't have because you guys have an actual real exchange.

你们在提升Robinhood股票代币在链上的流动性方面，策略是什么？

What what is the strategy for, like, bridging the liquidity or bolstering the liquidity of Robinhood stock tokens on chain?

我觉得这是一个有趣的问题。

You know, I think it's an interesting problem.

对吧？

Right?

有趣的是，我们看到很多人试图走捷径，匆忙推出竞争性产品，想赶在我们前面之类的。

What has been funny to us in a way is seeing how people have been trying to kind of cut corners and and launch competing products faster to to try to, you know, get it before us or or whatever.

我们选择了另一条路，因为我们深知流动性是个问题。

We we took a separate path where we knew that liquidity was a problem.

你知道，我们过去见过一些稳定币的情况，比如那些与美元挂钩的稳定币。

You know, we we've seen what happened with some stablecoin, for example, in the past that would be pegged from the dollar.

问题并不一定出在稳定币本身。

It wasn't necessarily an issue with the actual stablecoin.

它仍然是美元的某种代币化版本，但由于银行之间存在延迟或其他系统问题，你会看到美元的稳定币出现脱锚现象。

It was still like, the same kind of tokenized version of a dollar bill, but because there was delay between the bank or because of other system, you'll see the dollar DPEG, the stablecoin DPEG from the dollar.

所以我们对这一点很担忧，这也是为什么我们分多个阶段推出我们的股票代币。

So And we were worried about this point, and that's why we launched our stock token in multiple phases.

第一阶段是我们推出的版本，它在链上不可转让。

Phase one was the one that we launched where it's not transferable on chain.

第二阶段则是借助我们已建立的交易所，实现链上交易。

And, you know, phase two is to be able to go on chain with the right exchange that we have in place and everything.

对我们来说，很多解决方案都在于如何路由订单，以及如何连接多个订单来源，而不是只依赖单一渠道。

For us, a lot of the solution is going to be into how do you route orders and how do you connect to multiple source of orders instead of just having one off.

这样将大大提升流动性方面的灵活性。

And so that will give you a lot more flexibility on on the liquidity.

但我认为另一个回应是，随着市场的碎片化，流动性也会变得碎片化。

But I think the the other response is that, you know, with the fragmentation of the markets, you're going to have a fragmentation of liquidity.

因此，像Robinhood这样的应用程序正是利用这一点，将订单路由到最佳价格，就像我们在平台上进行加密货币交易时所做的那样。

And so application like Robinhood and other application was to actually use that as an advantage to be able to route the orders to the best price available, the same way that that's what we are doing for crypto trading on the platform.

所以当你在Robinhood购买比特币时，我们通常能提供平均最低的成本。

So when you buy a Bitcoin on Robinhood, we offer, in general, the lowest cost available in average.

之所以如此，是因为我们连接了多个做市商和多个交易所。

And the reason for that is because we connect to multiple market makers, multiple exchange.

当你下订单时，我们会查看不同系统中的最佳价格，然后只将订单路由到最优的那个。

And when you place an order, we actually look at what is the best price between the different systems, and we only route to the to the best one.

因此，我认为股票代币也会发生同样的情况，这将在流动性池和这些池中的做市商之间创造套利机会，从而确保价格始终与底层资产保持锚定。

And so I think that's going to happen as well for for the stock token, and that will create the arbitrage necessary between the liquidity pools, between the market makers that live on these pools to actually make sure that the price stay pegged to to the actual underlying asset.

当越来越多的Robinhood股票代币上线并让美国等更多人能够接触到时，流动性也会加深，那么在那之后你还能做些什么呢？

So when more and more Robinhood stock tokens come online and accessible to more people like The US, US gets their hands on it, and then the liquidity also deepens, what can you really do past that point?

当你拥有良好的交易量、良好的流动性、良好的资产基础和良好的用户基础时，你能解锁哪些新的可能性？

Like, what is unlocked to you when you have, you know, good volume, good liquidity, a good asset base, a good user base?

接下来，链上股票代币的发展轨迹会是怎样的？

What what kinda happens next in the arc of on chain stock tokens?

我认为将会看到更多的可访问性。

I think you will see a lot more accessibility.

所以，你知道，现在如果我问你如何在伦敦证券交易所或香港交易所购买股票，你会发现这相当困难，而且通常伴随着很多费用，因为你知道，每种系统都在收取更多的费用。

So, you know, right now, if I ask you how to buy a a stock on the London stock exchange or on the Hong Kong exchange, you will see it's fairly difficult and often it comes with a lot of fees because, you know, every, every type of system are kind of charging more fees.

我认为将会看到更多的借贷解决方案，比如能够抵押你的资产并获得信贷额度，用来买房或买车。

I think you will see more lending solution and more borrowing solution, you know, being able to pledge your assets and, and get a credit line, for example, to buy your house or to buy your car.

而且这也不是件容易的事，尤其如果你不是高净值人士，或者你正在努力成为高净值人士。

Also not something that is necessarily the easiest, especially if you're not like high net worth or you're trying net worth.

因此，所有这些都将让你接触到更好的贷款池、更程序化的承销商，而不仅仅是那些盯着电子表格和表格的人。

And so all of these things will give you access to better lending pools, better underwriters that are more programmatic and not just people looking at spreadsheets and forms.

所以，这大概就是基本的愿景。

So, so that's like kind of the basic vision.

然后我认为，你会看到更多我们一开始讨论的那种现实世界资产，它将不再仅仅局限于公开股票。

And then I think what you're going to see is more of this real world asset that we've talked at the beginning where it's not going to be just about public stock.

这将涉及私人股权以及不同类型的权益，你可以将这些资产混合在一起。

It's about going to be about private, about different type of equity, and you will be able to mix all these assets together.

所以，如果你想买房，不必只展示你的公开股票。

So, you know, if you're trying to buy a house, you don't have to just show your your public stock.

你还可以展示你已代币化的私人股权或其他资产，并用它们作为抵押来进行借贷。

You can also show your private equities that you have tokenized or whatever ops that you have and use that as collateral for for other ways of offending and borrowing.

所以，我觉得这会很有趣。

So, you know, I think it's going to be interesting.

老实说，我们才刚刚进入金融市场的这一阶段。

And and, you know, we are just very much at the beginning, to be honest, of this kind of phase of the financial market.

让我们来介绍下一个关键部分——Robinhood钱包。

Let's introduce the next puzzle piece here, the Robinhood wallet.

你们有区块链，也有股票代币。

So you guys have a chain, and you guys have the stock tokens.

你们还有一个钱包。

Also have a wallet.

这个钱包如何与我们之前讨论的其他部分协同工作？

How does the wallet synergize with the other parts of the, the puzzle pieces that we've talked about?

是的。

Yeah.

对我们来说，钱包一直是一种方式，让那些希望做更多事情、而不仅仅是使用Robinhood主应用的客户能够实现目标。

A a wallet has always been, you know, for us, a way for the customer that wanna do more, than just what we offer on the Robinhood main app, basically.

我的意思是，我们有很多更高级的客户。

Mean, I we have a lot of customers that are more advanced.

他们希望访问去中心化金融（DeFi）。

They want to get access to DeFi.

他们希望访问去中心化交易所（DEX），更好地利用我们的资产。

They want to get access to, like, DEXs, do more with our assets.

因此，我们一直都在思考：如何将这一切整合到Robinhood中？

And so we always had this question on, like, how do we bring all of this within Robinhood?

坦白说，答案是这真的非常困难。

And and frankly, the answer is that it's it's really difficult.

要构建的东西太多了，每天都有这么多新应用推出，如果我们手动与所有这些应用集成，将花费无穷无尽的时间。

There's so much to build, and there's so much new apps coming out every day that us integrating manually with all these apps will take forever.

因此，我们推出了这款钱包，它的设计非常像Robinhood。

And so we launched this wallet that really very much look like Robinhood.

你知道，它延续了我们长期以来一直坚持的简单易用、优秀用户体验等特性。

You know, it's the same, easy to use, good UX, and all these stuff that we've been doing for a very long time.

但你掌控着自己的密钥。

But you're in control of the keys.

你掌控着自己的操作。

You're in control of what you're doing.

你可以按照自己想要的方式批准交易。

You can approve the transaction the way you want.

因此，对于区块链，我们自然会与之合作。

And so for the chain, obviously, we'll work with it.

你知道，我们会针对Robin链进行优化。

You know, we'll be optimized for the Robin chain.

我会针对我们正在构建的所有股票代币以及正在实施的交易系统进行优化。

I will be optimized for all the stock tokens that we are building and the the trading system that we are implementing.

而且，我们知道，这为我们向世界展示什么是好的钱包提供了一种方式。

And, you know, we see it as a way to show to the world, like, what is a good wallet?

归根结底，私钥是可以导出的。

And, know, at the end of the day, pirate key can be exported.

如果你不喜欢这个钱包，你可以嗯。

If you don't like the wallet, you can Mhmm.

把它导入到其他服务商，但我们至少给你一个选择，让你能使用非常优秀的界面和体验来与Robinhood链交互。

Import it into a different provider, but we give you at least a choice to to access a very great UI and UX to communicate with the the Robinhood chain.

所以，Robinhood钱包真的是为像我这样、以及许多Bankless听众这样，希望对我们的金融世界拥有更多控制权和主权的人设计的吗？

So is the Robinhood wallet really meant for the people who are, like, you know, kinda like me and many of the bankless listeners who just want to have a little bit more control and sovereignty over our financial world?

还是说，它仅仅只针对像我这样的用户？而像Robinhood应用本身，我猜你们不会只把某些功能提供给Robinhood钱包吧？

And like, or is it like, maybe maybe it's just for just just that, where it's literally just meant for users like me, whereas like the Robin Hood app, the main Robin Hood app, I would expect you guys aren't going to only give certain features to the Robin Hood wallet.

比如，即使代币化股票依然会在Robinhood应用中显示。

Like if a tokenized stock is going to show up in the Robin Hood app nonetheless.

所以，Robinhood 钱包主要是为那些喜欢亲自操作区块链的硬核用户设计的吗？

And so it's it's really just the Robin Hood wallet kind of just meant for some of the more hardcore people who like to touch the chain themselves?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这样挺好。

That that I think that's fine.

我觉得，你知道，Robinhood 的客户超过两千六百万。

I think, you know, some some you know, Robinhood has more than 26,000,000 customers.

所以其中一些人更偏向日常使用。

So some of them are, like, more of the the day to day.

他们其实并不关心加密货币。

They they don't really care about cryptos.

他们只是想要一些接触机会。

They just want some exposure.

他们想分散自己的投资组合。

They wanna diversify their their portfolio.

但我们有一些像你这样的硬核用户，他们希望享受全方位服务的便利。

But we have some hardcore people like you that, you know, they want the convenience of a full service experience.

他们希望掌控自己的资产托管。

They wanna control the the custodies.

他们不希望把资产留在平台的链上，而是希望由自己完全掌控。

They they don't wanna leave their assets on on chain, on the platform, and they wanna keep it on their control.

因此，对我们来说，这是朝这个方向迈出的一步。

So for us, that was a step into this direction.

否则，你知道，你无法打造一个非常易用的优秀产品，然后让用户把它转移到他们自己的软件中，而那些软件根本没花多少心思去解决用户体验问题。

Because otherwise, you know, you you cannot build this great product that is very easy to use, and then someone transfer it into their own software that doesn't really spend as much time into thinking about UX problem.

突然间，体验就会变得非常糟糕。

And suddenly, like, the the experience is is pretty bad.

你知道，比如我们在欧洲推出股票代币的方式，你可以像在美国买股票一样购买你的股票代币。

You know, the way that we launch our stock token in The EU, for example, you you can buy your stock token like the same way you're buying a stock in The US.

如果我把这两个应用程序并排给你看，你会觉得它们完全一样。

If I show you the two applications side by side, you you will look at them and you think it's the same.

我们实际上在顶部添加了一个标签，标明这是代币化资产，以告知用户，这是使用Arbitrum技术的代币。

We actually added a pill at the top that says it's token to actually tell people, like, it's tokenized, but, you know, it's it's, using Arbitrum technology.

我们不会要求您进行跨链桥接。

We don't ask you for bridging.

我们不会要求您支付燃气费。

We don't ask you for gas fees.

我们不会要求您提供密钥或类似的东西。

We don't ask you for keys or anything like that.

我们只是帮您处理好这些，因为我们认为这才是重要的。

We just take care of that because we think that's what is important.

而另一侧的钱包则相对更复杂一些。

And the wallet on the other side is a bit more involved.

因此，您将能够看到需要如何改进产品，然后您就能看到网络究竟是怎样的。

So you will be able to see that you have to improve a product, and then you will go you will be able to see, like, what the network is.

所以，我会说，它稍微更高级一些。

So so it's a bit more advanced, I will say.

让我们来谈谈《清晰法案》。

Let's get into the Clarity Act.

《清晰法案》中哪一部分对罗宾汉尤其有意义，特别是你们的业务线？

What part of the Clarity Act is, like, more meaningful to Robinhood specifically, your guys' like lines of business?

你们对哪些部分更感兴趣，而不是其他部分？

What what parts do you guys have more interest in than others?

我的意思是，总体而言，我们感到兴奋的是，它为所有人建立了一个公平的竞争环境。

I mean, overall, what we are excited about is that it's just setting up, you know, a a level playing field for everybody.

长期以来，在美国，这种碎片化的情况一直存在，例如，我们在全美各地都提供质押服务，但有四个州目前不批准这项服务。

For for a long time in The US for this fragmented situation where, for example, we offer staking everywhere in The US, but four different states that, you know, for for now don't authorize it.

我们的一些资产在某些州可用，而在其他州则不行，因为它们有不同的要求或需要不同的许可证。

We have assets that are available in some state, not the other because they have different requirements or different licenses need.

因此，提供统一的用户体验一直非常困难。

So so it's been really difficult to offer a unified experience.

归根结底，受影响的是客户，因为有人刚搬到纽约，突然就无法在平台上进行某些操作了。

And at the end of the day, what's suffering is the customer because, you know, someone just moved to New York and suddenly they cannot do something specific on the platform.

与此同时，这对我们来说也很令人沮丧，因为我们一直在遵守规则。

And at the same time, it was frustrating for us because, you know, we've always played the game.

我们总是会获取许可证，比如从美国证券交易委员会那里获得许可。

We've always got licenses where we license from the SEC.

我们有一家在商品期货交易委员会注册的期货经纪商。

We have a FCM registered with the CFTC.

我们在纽约拥有BitLicense，在美国拥有许多货币传输许可证，而且我们在国际上也有很多许可证。

We have a bit license with New York, we have many money transmitting license in The US, and, you know, we also have many licenses internationally.

所以我们知道如何与监管机构合作，知道如何安全地提供产品，但归根结底，仅仅因为政治层面存在一些分歧，我们的客户就无法使用所有产品。

So we know how to work with the regulator, we know how to do the right thing for offering products safely, But at the end of the day, just because there are some disagreements at the political level, our customer cannot access all the products.

因此，《清晰法案》将带来的是一个公平的竞争环境，让所有企业都能向相同客户提供相同产品，不再需要不断担心是否会因为提供某项产品而被起诉。

So what Clariant is going to bring is this level playing field where everyone can offer the same product to the same customers, and there is not this, like, constant question of, like, are we going to get sued if we offer this product or not?

而且，你知道，其他所有方面也很有意思，因为你也看到了机构的采用情况，去年早些时候《创新法案》通过后，实际上有更多机构开始对拥抱稳定币感兴趣。

And then, you know, everything else is interesting as well because you saw also the adoption from the institution, you know, with the Genius Act passing earlier last year, you actually saw a lot more institution interested to to embrace Stablecoin.

你知道，大家都明白稳定币相比ACH电汇的价值。

You know, everyone understand the value of Stablecoin compared to ACH wire.