本集简介
双语字幕
仅展示文本字幕，不包含中文音频；想边听边看，请使用 Bayt 播客 App。
无银行国家是三月。
Bankless Nation is the March.
现在是Bankless每周汇总时间。
It's time for the Bankless Weekly Roll Up.
今天我们市场有些波动。
We got some jittery markets today.
Vitalik，我们正处在一个动荡的世界。
Vitalik We got a jittery world.
是的。
Yeah.
动荡的世界。
Jittery world.
你知道，Vitalik称这是混乱的时代。
You know, Vitalik calls this the chaotic era.
这周我看到他发过一条关于这个的推文。
I saw him tweet something about that this week.
我认为我们已经从稳定时代进入了混乱时代。
I think that's we've moved from the stable era to the chaotic era.
我们在市场上感受到了这一点。
We're feeling that in the markets.
战争、人工智能，还有整个市场的不安情绪。
Wars, we got AI, just overall jitters in the market.
不过，我们正在关注三件事。
There's three things, though, we're paying attention to.
我们会谈谈这些事。
We're gonna talk about them.
石油、就业、私人信贷，以及它们如何影响加密货币。
Oil, jobs, private credit, and how all those things affect crypto.
加密领域也有许多重大公告。
Lots of big announcements on the crypto side of things as well.
Kraken 和纳斯达克宣布合作，发行和交易真正的代币化股票，不是假的，而是真正的股票，有几个区块链将成为赢家，而且今天还发布了最新消息。
Kraken and the Nasdaq announced a partnership to issue and trade real tokenized stocks, not the fake ones, the real ones on which chains a few chains are going to be the winners here and also breaking news as of today.
贝莱德发布了其备受期待的质押型以太坊ETF。
BlackRock has released its long awaited staked e e t f.
终于。
Finally.
哇。
Wow.
偏偏选在市场根本没人关心的这个阶段。
Just in just in the phase of the market where no one cares.
我们要聊聊这个怎么在圈子里引起轰动，讲讲它的费用是多少、质押收益率如何，以及这周所有相关动态。
We're gonna talk about how to we're gonna pop up in the hood, talk about how that works, what are the fees, what's the stake rate, how all of that is going on the week.
这周还有一些令人失望的消息。
There's also some disappointing news on the week.
司法部决定要重新审理Tornado Cash案，针对Roman Storm。
The DOJ has decided it wants to retry the Tornado Cash case with Roman Storm.
我以为这事已经结束了。
I thought that was done.
如果我们连开源隐私开发者都起诉，我们还能说美国是世界加密货币之都吗，大卫？
Can we really say America's the crypto capital of the world if we're going and we're prosecuting our open source privacy developers, David.
我们得谈谈这个问题。
We gotta talk about that.
不过，也许民主党入主白宫后对加密货币会更不利。
Also, maybe the Democrats, though, would be worse for crypto in the White House.
伯尼·桑德斯提出了暂停人工智能数据中心的提案。
Bernie Sanders has introduced a moratorium on AI data centers.
大卫，我们必须讨论一下我俩都预见的即将到来的人工智能技术反弹。
David, we have to have a discussion about the coming AI tech backlash that I think the two of us both see.
所以
So
你知道吗，在2022年和2023年FTX崩盘后，民主党拿着禁令大棒对付加密货币，试图将加密货币赶尽杀绝。
You know how in 2022 and '3 post FTX, the Democrats came with their ban hammer on crypto and tried to regulate crypto out of existence.
然后加密社区团结起来，成立了‘公平对待’超级政治行动委员会以及其他多个超级政治行动委员会。
And then crypto banded together and made the fair shake, super PAC and a bunch of other super PACs.
我认为AI现在正处于其政治生命周期的阶段，民主党会来试图用禁令打压它们。
I think we are AI is in the phase of their political lifespan where the democrats come and try and ban hammer them.
然后它们需要团结起来，像加密货币那样变得更有序。
And then they're going to need to rally together and find their way more organized in crypto.
我认为它们已经在这样做了。
I think they're already doing this.
那里有很多内容需要梳理。
There's a lot to unpack there.
那我们就开始吧。
So let's get to it.
我们的朋友和赞助商Figure，他们是美国排名第一的非银行房屋净值信贷额度贷款机构。
Our friends and sponsors over at figure, who are the number one non bank HELOC lender in The United States.
他们正在将机构级的去中心化金融带给大众。
They're bringing institutional grade DeFi to the masses.
他们希望你知道这一点。
They want you to know this.
他们的加密货币抵押贷款提供近9%的收益率，贷款价值比为50%，你的比特币存放在完全隔离的MPC托管中，而非 pooled 或 hypothecated。
Their crypto backed loans are offering almost 9% at 50% LTV with your Bitcoin held in a completely segregated MPC custody not pooled, hypothecated.
而且，如果市场进入波动期——我们已经经历过这种情况——他们还提供违约保护。
And they also give you liquidation protection in case there we enter some volatile markets, which we have been in.
Figure正在做的非常酷且独特的事情是，利用区块链技术绕过中间商，将节省的成本传递给消费者，他们称之为‘民主化优质产品’，取代了华尔街和银行发放的房屋净值贷款。
The very cool thing that Figure is doing the unique thing that's leveraging blockchain technology to pass the savings onto consumers by cutting out middlemen is called their democratized prime product instead of Wall Street and the bankers giving out home equity loans.
你可以这么做。
You can do that.
你也可以选择这种方式。
You can do that instead.
它的运作方式是，有一个名为YLDS的代币。
And the way that this works, there's this ticker, this token called YLDS.
这是首个经美国证券交易委员会注册的收益型稳定币。
It's the first ever SEC registered yield bearing stablecoin.
你购买这个代币，然后将其借入Figure的贷款池中。
You buy that token, you lend it into loans figure pools.
YLDS 作为基础收益，通过借贷给 Figure 的贷款池获得 3.8% 的回报。
YLDS earns itself 3.8% as a base, lending it to loans figures.
贷款池能让你获得高达 9% 的收益，所有收益均由真实抵押贷款和加密货币抵押贷款支持。
Loan pools gets you up to 9%, And all of that is backed by real mortgages and crypto collateralized loans.
挺酷的。
Pretty cool.
Bankless。
Bankless.
C c slash figure if
C c slash figure if
如果你想了解更多。
you want to learn more.
这里很好地融合了传统金融和去中心化金融。
Nice blend of TradFi and DeFi there.
真让人喜欢。
Gotta love that.
是的。
Yeah.
大卫，我们本周的动物来了。
David, we got an animal of the week.
好的。
Okay.
它是那个被禁止的第三种动物。
It is the forbidden third animal.
你知道的，牛市，我们之前经历过牛市。
You know, bull, we've been in bull markets before.
我们之前也经历过熊市。
We've been in bear
我们之前也经历过熊市。
markets before.
我们不喜欢那种市场。
We don't like those.
我们现在正处于熊市。
We're in a bear market right now.
但屏幕上还有一个第三种动物。
But there's a third animal on the screen here.
我们看到的是什么？
What are we looking at?
我们目前正处于袋鼠市场。
We are currently in a kangaroo market.
我们以前经历过螃蟹市场。
We've we've previously had the crab market.
我认为Bankless的听众会对螃蟹市场有所了解。
I think bankless listeners will be familiar with the crab market.
是的。
Yeah.
螃蟹市场是横盘整理的。
The crab market goes sideways.
袋鼠横盘市场也是横盘，但首先会上涨，然后下跌，再上涨，
Kangaroo side market also goes sideways, but first it goes up, and then it goes down, and then it goes up,
然后
and then
接着下跌，但无论如何最终都会横盘。
it goes down, but it ends up sideways no matter what.
这实际上是CNBC说现在是袋鼠市场。
This is actually I think CNBC is saying it's a it's a kangaroo market.
所以他们也认同这个梗。
So they're on board with the meme.
我们来谈谈我们关注的三件事。
Let's talk about the three things we're looking at.
第一是油价。
Number one is oil prices.
第二是本周的就业数据。
Number two is the job numbers on the week.
第三是私人信贷领域的一些波动。
And the third is some tremors in private credit.
那么，我们先从石油说起吧。
So maybe let's start with oil.
这当然是因为伊朗的战争而发生的。
This, of course, is is going on because of the the war in Iran.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我们看到石油价格出现了上下震荡。
We've seen some kangarooing on the oil price.
我们现在关注的是什么？
What are we looking at?
是的，确实出现了大幅上涨的震荡。
Yeah, definitely kangarooing up.
然而，我认为石油价格图表中正在讲述一个更大的故事。
However, I think there is a large story being told in the price chart of oil.
在我看来，油价越高，特朗普和美国结束这场伊朗战争的压力就越大。
To me, the way I interpret this is the higher the price of oil, the more pressure is on Donald Trump and United States to end this conflict, this war in Iran.
因为你知道，油价上涨会推高通胀，损害国内民众利益，引发人们对美国的不满。
Because you know, increases inflation that hurts people domestically, it makes people upset with The United States.
当油价较低时，特朗普和美国军方就有更多余地继续他们正在做的事情，而公众也能直接在加油站感受到这一点，对吧？
When the oil price is lower, it gives Donald Trump and the US military a longer leash to continue doing whatever they're doing in the public also sees it at the pump directly, right?
过去一年里，油价的变动就体现在加油站的价格上。
This is this is priced at the pump over the last year.
自从战争爆发以来，油价就出现了这次飙升。
At this spike up ever since the the war outbreak began.
是的，石油市场最近出现了异常剧烈的波动。
Yeah, there's just been some crazy volatility in the oil market.
周一，由于几个关键事件，油价单日暴涨了30%，伊斯兰政权表示将关闭霍尔木兹海峡。
So on Monday, oil jumped 30% in one day from just a handful of key events, the Islamic regime regime said that they would be closing the Strait Of Hormuz.
全球20%到30%的石油消费量都要经过这条海峡，每天约有5000万到2100万桶石油通过这里。
That's where 20 to 30% of the world's total oil consumption passes through about 50 to 21,000,000 barrels of oil per day passes through the strait.
以色列对伊朗的石油储存设施和炼油厂发动了袭击，随后伊朗无人机袭击了卡塔尔的天然气设施以及沙特阿美在沙特阿拉伯的炼油厂。
There were some Israeli strikes on Iran's oil depots and refineries and then Iranian drones attacked Qatari gas facilities and also Saudi Aramarkos refinery in Saudi Arabia.
所以石油市场出现了诸多波动。
So just a bunch of volatility in the oil market.
然后能源部长克里斯·赖特在X上发帖称，海军已成功护送一艘油轮通过霍尔木兹海峡。
Then energy secretary Chris Wright posted on X that the Navy had successfully escorted an oil tanker through the Strait Of Hormuz.
于是大家都说，哦，海峡又通了，美国军方正在保护通过海峡的油轮。
So everyone's like, oh, the Strait's open again, the United States military is protecting the oil tankers going through.
但这条推文随后被删除了，不过在删除之前，油价因这条消息暴跌了20%；随后白宫证实并未实施护航，油价随即回升，抹去了当天股市的所有涨幅。
Then they deleted the tweet, but not before oil plunged 20% on that news, but then the White House confirmed that no escort had taken has taken place and then oil started pumping again, erasing all of the gains in the stock market that it had that day.
所以目前我认为，油价决定了股市、全球股市以及几乎所有其他事物。
So right now I think oil is the price that dictates the stock market, the global global stock markets and basically everything else.
嗯，我的意思是，尽管如此，全球股市并没有对此做出太多反应。
Well, yeah, I mean, I will say though, this the global the stock markets haven't been responding too much in kind.
我的意思是，我们已经
I mean, we have,
今天原油价格有日内波动。
There's been intraday tracking of oil.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
That's right.
确实如此。
That's true.
是的。
Yeah.
但我的意思是，自从战争爆发以来，标普指数只下跌了百分之二点五。
But I mean, since the war started, what the S and P is only down two and a half percent.
是的。
Yeah.
这说明，如果它真的跟原油价格同步上涨的话，那原油涨了多少呢？
Which is like, if it was tracking the price up of oil, I mean, oil has gone what?
它之前冲到多少来着？一百多，快到120美元了？
Above, like, where did it go to 100 and almost 120?
自伊朗冲突爆发以来，油价已经上涨了40%。
Oil is up 40% since the start of the Iran conflict.
对。
Right.
所以说，股市居然没跟着出现相应的跌幅，这几乎有点出人意料。
And so it's almost surprising as stocks have not responded in kind in that way.
我的意思是，现在Polymarket平台上的原油期货交易量有一些很值得关注的变化，你看看三月份到期的原油价格相关合约就知道了。
I mean, there's some interesting volume going on in Polymarket right now when you look at the the crude oil price by the March.
按照当前数据，在三月底前油价冲到每桶200美元的概率只有4%。
So 4% chance that we hit $200 per barrel by the March.
而且支撑这个数据的交易量规模相当大。
And this is on some pretty significant volume.
对，我觉得这件事的走向其实已经挺明朗了。
Yeah, it's actually pretty clear, I think.
我的意思是，我其实也不知道。
I mean, I don't really know.
我不知道是谁在交易，但成交量达到了2500万。
I don't know who's trading this, but there is 25,000,000 of volume.
我只能推测，大部分成交量是在这波剧烈波动之后才出现的。
And I can only imagine that the majority of that volume came after like a lot of this volatility happened.
在我看来，这表明市场上确实存在明显的对冲活动，或者至少有一些金融应用场景，这挺好的。
To me, it indicates that there is actually pretty clear hedging activity going on, or at least some sort of like financial use case of this market, which is which is nice to see.
我的意思是，当面对战争的不确定性时，袋鼠市场是有道理的。
I mean, kangaroo market makes sense when you're dealing with the uncertainty of war.
而目前来看，石油市场显然在根据战争的新闻进行交易。
And right now, it seems like the oil markets are obviously trading on whatever the the news of the war is.
或者是总统关于战争新闻的推文。
Or the tweets of the president about the news of the war.
没错。
Exactly.
问题是，我认为市场在问的是：这种情况会持续多久？
And the the question is, I think the market's asking is like, how long is this going to go on for?
对吧？
Right?
所以你有一些因素指向这场冲突可能是短期的，不会持久。
So you you've got some variables that are pointing the direction of some a short type of conflict, something that won't persist.
其中一个因素是这场战争的民众支持度。
One of them is, you know, the popularity of this war.
它并不特别受欢迎。
It's not super popular.
你或许可以称之为分歧，但有十分之五的人反对这场战争。
You might call this mixed, but, you know, there's five in 10 that oppose the war.
十分之四的人支持。
There's four in 10 that support.
大约十分之一的人还持观望态度。
There's, like, one in 10 that is somewhat undecided.
我认为，要让这场战争在美国持续更长时间，公众的支持率必须从更高的基数开始。
I think in order to have a longer persisting war in The US, the public would have to start with higher numbers to be on board with this.
因此，这是特朗普面临的一种政治压力。
So that's gonna be a political pressure that Trump is facing.
而且他似乎正在寻找一些退出途径，或者至少在采取谨慎态度。
And it seems like he is looking for some of the exits or at least he's hedging.
周一，唐纳德·特朗普接受了CBS新闻的电话采访。
So there was a phone interview with CBS News and Donald Trump on Monday.
那是在3月9日。
So that was March 9.
他说：‘我认为这场战争已经基本结束了。’
He said this, I think the war is very complete, pretty much.
我们远远领先于原定计划。
We're very far ahead of schedule.
那意味着什么？
So what is that?
你如何解读这一点？
How do you interpret that?
他一直在向媒体传递矛盾的信息。
He's been giving mixed messages to the press.
有一场采访中，他说是的，我们基本上已经实现了所有目标，战争几乎结束了。
There was one interview where he gave where he said, Yes, we've basically achieved everything that we've had to achieve the war is almost over.
但这也可能才刚刚开始。
But also, it could just be the beginning.
与此同时。
At the same time.
他只是在说各种各样的话。
He's just saying all the things.
他只是在说各种各样的话。
He's just saying all the things.
所以他
So he
可以稍后选择。
can select later.
这是因为
It's cause
没错。
Exactly.
死亡的原因。
Of death.
这并不是一个糟糕的策略。
Which is, which is not a bad strategy.
我认为唐纳德·特朗普知道，到中期选举来临之际，伊朗战争必须已经远远成为过去。
I think Donald Trump does know that this the Iran war needs to be deeply in the rearview mirror by the time the midterms come around.
是的。
Yeah.
他们之所以不在中期选举临近时采取这种行动，是有原因的。
And there's a reason why it would they they would not have done this approximate to the time of the midterms.
是的。
Yeah.
因此，油价将对他构成压力。
And so Oil price is gonna be a pressure on him.
政治情绪将对他构成压力。
Political sentiment is gonna be a pressure on him.
市场情绪也将对他构成压力。
Market sentiment will be a pressure on him.
所有这些都会促使他更快结束这场冲突。
All of these will make him want to end this faster.
实际上，另一个有趣的Polymarket预测是：美国和伊朗在什么日期前实现停火？
Actually, another interesting Polymarket is a US and Iran cease fire by what date?
根据Polymarket的数据，到3月31日实现停火的概率为23%。
So a 23% chance that that happens by March 31 according to Polymarket.
到4月30日的概率为47%，到6月30日的概率为61%。
By April 30, a 47 chance, and by June 30, a 61% chance.
市场采用了和你相同的逻辑，也就是在中期选举前解决这个问题。
Market using the same logic you did, which is like resolve this in time for the midterms.
是的。
Yeah.
这个合约的交易量也相当可观。
There's also a decent amount of volume on this one.
我不认为停火是合理的，因为……
I don't think the ceasefire makes sense because okay.
这个市场的结算规则是：如果达成正式的停火协议，并且双方同意停止直接的军事级对抗，那么结果为‘是’。
So the the settling of this market says this market will resolve to yes if there is an official ceasefire agreement and a mutually agreed halt in direct military grade engagement.
我打赌唐纳德·特朗普只会宣布胜利。
I bet Donald Trump is just gonna declare victory.
然而，不管结果如何，他都会说：无所谓，不管怎么定，这都是我们想要的。
However, however it lands, he's like, whatever, however it landed, that was what we wanted.
我们赢了。
Like, we won.
现在我们脱离了他们的和平。
And now we're out of their peace.
停火意味着像一种
Ceasefire means like a
真正的结构。
true structure.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，唐纳德·特朗普不会达成停战协议。
Like I don't Donald Trump's not gonna do a truce.
他会说：不。
He's like, no.
我们打败了你们，现在我们要带着金牌回家了。
We beat you guys and now we're going home with our like gold medal.
对。
Yeah.
我的意思是，有可能。
I mean, could be.
有趣的是，美元表现得相当稳健。
What's interesting is the the dollar is holding up pretty well.
我的意思是，我们上周就讨论过，但美元确实证明了自己是一种避险资产。
I mean, we talked about that last week, but the dollar is really proving itself as a flight to safety type asset.
美元指数（DXY）现在正逼近100。
It's closing in on one here, the DXY that is.
黄金表现也不太活跃，目前徘徊在每盎司51,000美元左右。
Gold is not doing very much either, so it's kind of hovering at the 51,000 per ounce.
加密货币价格这一周也有些起伏。
Crypto prices as well, a bit of a kangaroo on the week.
不过我们确实有几次上涨，对吧？
We had some hops up though, didn't we?
是的。
Yeah.
我们有过一些看涨的日子。
We had we had some bullish days.
我们也有过一些看跌的日子，只是来回跳动。
We had some bearish days, and we were just hopping around.
本周比特币整体下跌1.1%，以太坊下跌1.5%。
We're overall down 1.1% for Bitcoin on the week and down 1.5% for Ether on the week.
我觉得这没什么好说的，要说黄金的价格走势与冲突后的市场反应，其实很难，因为黄金目前正处在一场巨大的投机泡沫之上，我们曾因恐慌而疯狂涌入，以为金价会冲到一千美元。
Not much of a story, I would say it's also hard to tell a story about gold as it relates to the price action downstream of the conflict because gold is on the backs of a huge speculative bubble where we ran from you think it's a thousand a speculative euphoria.
上次的大幅上涨之后，现在正在回调。
A big run out for the last run up and it's it's it's drawing down based off of that run up.
是的。
Yeah.
而这与伊朗战争冲突的时间点非常接近。
And that is just very close to the Iran war conflict.
所以这两股信号正在相互作用、相互干扰——‘干扰’这个词用得真好，这正是我想表达的意思。
So like those two, those two bits of signal are like interacting with each other and interfering interfering is that it's a good word with the signal I'm trying to get here.
我认为，如果要总结加密货币，我觉得我们已经进入了加密货币的冷漠市场。
I think crypto if you to sum up crypto, I do think we have entered the apathy market for crypto.
我的意思是，你根本看不到任何头条新闻。
I mean, you're not seeing headlines.
你对新闻也完全没有反应。
You're not seeing any reaction to news.
它只是在缓慢地波动。
It's just kinda hopping along.
我基本上把我对市场周期走向的判断都交给了迈克尔·纳托。
And I'm mostly outsourcing my my brain on what what's gonna happen in the cycle to Michael Nato.
我觉得他对市场有很好的把握。
I think he's got a pretty good pulse on it.
所以他说对了。
So Been right.
是的。
Yeah.
他
He's
一直是对的。
been right.
好吧。
Alright.
所以这是正在发生的事情之一。
So that's one of the things that's happening.
除了油价之外，戴维，你还得关注由于一些非常糟糕的就业数据而引发的经济衰退可能性。
So in addition to oil prices, gotta look at the odds of a recession on the back of some pretty grim job numbers, David.
所以上周，这一点让投资者感到意外。
So last week, this took investors by surprise.
二月份的就业岗位减少了9.2万个，失业率实际上正在上升。
We were a negative 92,000 on jobs in February, and unemployment rate is actually rising.
历史上它一直很低，但现在是4.4%。
It's been pretty low historically, but now it's 4.4%.
原本预期我们会新增5万到6万个岗位，但实际却减少了9.2万个。
The expectation was that we would add 50 to 60,000 jobs, but we were down by 92,000.
好的。
Okay.
我这里有种似曾相识的感觉。
I'm getting deja vu here.
你上一份就业报告不也是这么做的吗？
Didn't you do this last jobs report?
上一份就业报告？
Last jobs report?
我以为可能是持平或者还不错。
Maybe I thought it was like flat or healthy.
实际上，我想不起来了。
Actually, I can't recall
持平、不错，然后后来向下修正了。
flat healthy and then it corrected downwards.
好吧，你有战争带来的能源价格、通胀担忧，还有糟糕的就业数据。
Well, so you got the you got war energy prices, inflationary concerns, some bad jobs numbers.
对吧？
Right?
这到底是怎么回事？
Like, what's going on there?
雇主们是不是在裁员？
Are employers, you know, laying people off?
他们是不是在停止加薪？
Are they are they stopping the the higher?
所以‘衰退’这个词又流行起来了。
So the r word is back in vogue again.
就像去年这个时候，我们刚开始谈论经济衰退。
It was again, like, this time last year, we started talking about a recession.
但看看Polymarket上关于2026年美国经济衰退的概率，就在这些数据下滑后，我们预测2026年出现衰退的概率一路飙升到了37%。
But look at the Polymarket for The US recession by the 2026, where we we jumped up after these drop numbers all the way to, like, 37% that we would get a recession in 2026.
我们目前的数据已经降至大约30%，但考虑到失业数据和通胀压力，2026年出现衰退的可能性正在上升。
We're since down to about 30% on those numbers, but the chance of a recession, the probability of a recession in 2026 is increasing given the unemployment data, given inflationary type pressures.
所以我们也要留意这一点。
So we got that to watch out for as well.
确实，十一月时更高，而十月时曾达到45%。
Granted, it was higher in November, and looks like October, it was at 45%.
所以总体来看，趋势仍在下行。
Then so we're kind of still trending downwards.
对吧？
Right?
它是不是从20%飙升到了30%？
Did it did spike up from 20 to 30%?
你说得对。
You're right.
GDP一直表现强劲，人工智能热潮也仍在持续。
GDP has been pretty strong, and AI boom is still booming.
但确实。
But Yeah.
我在这里最关注的可能是私人信贷。
The thing maybe I am most looking at here is private credit.
你有看到一些关于私人信贷领域的新闻吗？
Have you seen some of headlines coming out the private credit space?
没有，这周我没关注这个。
No, that was not on my timeline this week.
好吧，那么
Okay, well So
你得给我讲讲。
you're gonna have to inform me.
亚当·科克伦说，如果你不从事金融行业，这可能对你来说毫无意义，但如果你在金融行业，这就是经济周期即将结束的一个主要信号，表明情况实际上正在变得相当糟糕。
Adam Cochran, so Adam Cochran, it says, if you aren't in finance, this likely means nothing to you, but if you are in finance, this is one of the main barometers of the end of an economic cycle, and that things are actually getting quite bad.
他所指的是这条新闻：摩根大通下调了私人信贷机构的贷款组合估值。
And what he's referring to is this headline, JPMorgan marking down loan portfolios of private credit groups.
好吧？
Okay?
所以这是亚当·科克伦在对此发出警报。
So this is Adam Cochran sounding the alarm bells on this.
我要说，如果你不知道亚当·科克伦是谁，他确实擅长吸引关注和发出警报。
I will say, if you don't know who Adam Cochran is, he is good at engagement and sounding alarm bells.
是的。
Yes.
这基本上就是他的专长，他做的事情。
That's kinda like his deal is what he does.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
That's right.
但这次，这里确实有些实质内容。
But in this case, there is some substance here.
摩根大通实际上正在限制私人信贷放贷。
So JPMorgan is actually restricting private credit lending.
因此，在本周一些资产估值下调后，它不再向一些私人信贷公司放贷。
So it's not lending to some of these private credit companies after some markdowns that happened on the week.
摩根大通的首席执行官杰米·戴蒙表示，外面有一些蟑螂。
And Jamie Dimon, so CEO of JPMorgan, said that there's some cockroaches out there.
他指的是那些可能会倒闭的私人贷款机构。
He's talking to private lenders that are gonna, I don't know, die.
你知道的吗？
You know?
所以
And so
等等。
Wait.
等等。
Wait.
等等。
Wait.
蟑螂是不会死的。
Cockroaches don't die.
我不知道。
I don't know
他在说什么。
what he's saying.
你说有蟑螂，这带有负面含义。
You said there's cockroaches, and and there's bad connotations.
明白吗？
Okay?
这确实有一些负面含义。
There's there's some bad connotations.
而且这也发生在之后。
And this also comes on the back.
这是一篇路透社的文章。
Here's a Reuters article.
所以这件事发生在3月6日，上周晚些时候，猜猜看。
So this happened on March 6, so late last week, guess.
黑石基金因赎回潮冲击私人信贷而限制提款。
BlackRock fund limits withdrawals as redemptions rattle private credit.
他们所指的是私人信贷领域的一只黑石基金，刚刚宣布：好吧。
So what they're referring to is a BlackRock fund in the private credit industry that just said, okay.
我们必须停止赎回。
We gotta cease redemptions.
260亿美元的贷款基金。
$26,000,000,000 lending fund.
赎回金额达12亿美元，我不得不叫停了这些赎回。
There was 1,200,000,000.0 in redemptions, and I had to call a halt on that.
所有赎回均已停止。
All redemptions ceasing.
你知道吗，当一个基金或银行遭遇挤兑，不得不宣布暂停赎回时，
And, you know, when there's kind of a run on a fund or run on the bank and that fund or bank has to say, halt?
不再接受赎回？
No more redemptions?
这可不是什么好兆头，对吧？
That's not a great sign, is it?
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我同意这一点。
That I I would agree.
我的下一个问题是，如果我们想指出这就像一种传染，即将爆发金融危机，
My next question is if we are trying to point at this is just like, there's a contagion, there's a financial crisis coming.
我想了解一下这一切的规模有多大。
I would like to ask the size of all of this stuff.
是的。
Yeah.
这是个好问题。
That's a good question.
对吧？
Right?
这里的总可用市场有多大？
What's the what's the TAM here?
关于私人信贷，有趣的是，自2008年之后，当银行曾是主要贷款方时，它就在幕后持续增长。
What's interesting about private credit is it's been growing in the background since about, you know, post 2008 when the banks were the primary lenders here.
所以，在银行崩溃之后，整个私人信贷行业应运而生。
So after they, you know, fell apart, a a whole industry stepped in, private credit industry.
有一些像阿波罗这样的机构，你可能听说过。
There's groups like Apollo that you've probably heard of.
它们正在为许多数据中心提供资金，并通过私人信贷为大量SaaS公司提供支持。
They're funding many of the data centers, and they've been funding a lot of, with private credit, SaaS firms.
好吧？
Okay?
是的。
Yeah.
我们大约三周前开始谈论SaaS末日的时候就是那样。
It was like three weeks ago when we started talking about the SaaS pocalypse.
对。
Right.
他们投资SaaS公司的整个原因在于，SaaS的增长已经成为一个非常可靠的指标，可以准确预测，模型也能够很好地拟合。
And the whole idea about why they would fund SaaS firms is because SaaS growth became such a dependable metric that you could actually project it dependably and the models would fit.
所以，既然模型有效，我们能预测收入和增长，那就可以向这些公司提供贷款。
And so then it's like, okay, well if the models are working and we can project revenue and growth, then we can like lend to these companies.
是的。
Yes.
因此，一些不安的情绪就由此产生了。
And so that's where some of the jitters are coming in.
也许一些SaaS公司本身就很差，而这2到3万亿美元的行业中，有20%到35%是SaaS公司。
Maybe some of the the SaaS companies are actually bad, and 20 to 35% of this 2 to $3,000,000,000,000 industry is SaaS companies.
所以一些看空者，比如亚当·科赫兰，认为这就是次贷泡沫。
So some of the bears like Adam Cochran are are saying, well, this is the subprime bubble.
明白吗？
Okay?
2026年的次贷危机。
The subprime credit problem of 2026.
它已经来了。
It's here.
它就在私人信贷领域。
It's in private credit.
这些市场都是不透明的。
These are opaque markets.
你根本无法信任它们。
You can't really trust them.
它们会倒闭的。
They're gonna go belly up.
看涨者仍然说，伙计们，这只是正常的市场运作。
The the bulls are still saying, guys, like, this is normal market operations.
好的。
Okay.
SaaS公司股价下跌了。
SaaS company's down.
这只是一个市场测试。
This is just a market test.
如果你看看私人信贷，它们的违约率一直很低，只有1.9%。
If you look at private credit, their defaults have been pretty good, like 1.9%.
这在历史上是非常低的。
That's like really low historically.
没什么好担心的。
Nothing to worry about.
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
这只是一个市场测试。
It's just a market test.
所以这值得留意，但我自己还没有得出任何结论。
So it's something to keep an eye on, but I don't have any conclusions on this myself.
次贷危机和2008年金融危机的一部分故事，是政府政策与贷款行业之间的合作。
Part of the story of the subprime mortgage crisis, the two thousand and eight financial crisis was the collaboration between the government policy and the lending sector.
因此，贷款行业失去了平衡，因为它没有回应资本主义的激励机制，天真地没有理解正在发生的事情。
And so the lending sector got out of whack because it was not responding to capitalistic incentives, naively without understanding what's going on.
正如你所说的，我认为私人信贷市场会比次贷危机更好地响应资本主义的风险激励。
And just like reacting to what you're saying, the private credit market, I would suggest, would respond to capitalistic risk incentives better than the subprime mortgage crisis did.
也许吧。
Maybe.
因此，它自然会更具韧性。
And so would be naturally more resilient.
我不知道。
I don't know.
但我也不知道。
But I don't know.
我这可能纯粹是在胡说八道，老兄。
I could just be spitting out my ass here, dude.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，你确实得盯着它，我觉得你得在这里两边都做些对冲。
I mean, you you have to you have to keep an eye on it, and I think you have to kind of hedge in in both directions here.
这可能是这里最稳妥的做法。
That's probably the safe mood here move here.
我们还有更多话题要聊。
We got more to talk about.
纳斯达克正与Kraken合作，将特斯拉、英伟达以及整个QQQ上链。
The Nasdaq is partnering with Kraken to bring Tesla, Nvidia, the whole QQQ on chain.
最疯狂的是，他们没有选择嘉信理财或盈透证券来做这件事。
The craziest part about this is they're not doing it with Schwab or TD Ameritrade.
他们正在和Kraken合作。
They're doing it with Kraken.
这是一种非常原生的加密方式。
This is a very crypto native approach.
此外，司法部正在重新起诉Roman Storm，我们会谈谈这件事以及对隐私的影响。
Also, the DOJ retrying Roman Storm, we'll talk about that and the implications for privacy.
在那之前，我们要感谢使这一切成为可能的赞助商。
Before we do, we wanna thank the sponsors that made this possible.
Galaxy是数字资产与下一代基础设施交汇的地方，为机构提供端到端服务。
Galaxy operates where digital assets and next generation infrastructure come together, serving institutions end to end.
在市场方面，Galaxy是领先的机构平台，提供现货、衍生品、结构化产品、DeFi借贷、投资银行和融资服务。
On the market side, Galaxy is a leading institutional platform, providing access to spot, derivatives, structured products, DeFi lending, investment banking, and financing.
拥有超过1600个交易对手，Galaxy帮助机构应对市场周期的每个阶段。
With more than 1,600 trading counterparties, Galaxy helps institutions navigate every phase of the market cycle.
该平台还通过主动管理策略和机构级质押及区块链基础设施，支持长期资产配置者。
The platform also supports long term allocators through actively managed strategies and institutional grade staking and blockchain infrastructure.
这种规模是真实的。
That scale is real.
Galaxy 在平台上的资产超过 120 亿美元，2025 年底的平均贷款规模达到 180 亿美元，体现了生态系统内深厚的信任。
Galaxy has over $12,000,000,000 in assets on the platform and averaged a $1,800,000,000 loan book in late twenty twenty five, reflecting deep trust across the ecosystem.
除了数字资产，Galaxy 还在为人工智能驱动的未来构建基础设施。
Beyond digital assets, Galaxy is also building infrastructure for an AI powered future.
其 Helios 数据中心园区专为人工智能和高性能计算而建，拥有超过 1.6 吉瓦的已批准电力容量，使其成为同类中规模最大的站点之一。
Its Helios Data Center campus is purpose built for AI and high performance computing, with more than 1.6 gigawatts of approved power capacity, making it one of the largest sites of its kind.
从全球市场到为人工智能准备的数据中心，Galaxy 正在端到端地服务数字资产生态系统。
From global markets to AI ready data centers, Galaxy is serving the digital asset ecosystem end to end.
访问 galaxy.com/bankless 探索 Galaxy，或点击节目说明中的链接。
Explore Galaxy at galaxy.com/bankless or click the link in the show notes.
市场正在对一个感觉极不稳定的世界做出反应。
Markets are reacting to a world that feels anything but stable.
通胀顽固，地缘政治风险上升，资本在加密货币、大宗商品、股票和货币之间流动的速度前所未有。
Inflation is sticky, geopolitical risk is rising, and capital is moving between crypto, commodities, equities, and currencies faster than ever.
像Bitget这样的通用交易所正是为此类环境打造的。
A universal exchange like Bitget is built for this kind of environment.
通过一次重大应用升级，Bitget现在在导航栏中为传统金融设立了专属标签页。
With a major app upgrade, Bitget now gives TradFi its own dedicated tab in the navigation.
只需一键，即可访问股票、黄金、外汇及其他全球市场，全部集成在您已用于加密货币的同一平台中。
One click gives you access to stocks, gold, forex, and other global markets, all inside the same platform you already use for crypto.
您可享受股票永续合约交易手续费9折优惠，并可免手续费交易黄金和白银。
You can get 90% off trading fees on stock perps, and you can trade gold and silver without the fee burn.
一个应用，一个账户。
One app, one account.
无需在不同工具间切换，无需反复登录，直接在同一个统一的交易平台上同时交易加密资产和传统资产，体验极速与灵活。
Trade crypto and traditional assets side by side without bouncing between No scatter tools, no login juggling, just a unified trading experience built for speed and flexibility.
当黄金对全球风险做出反应，加密货币受流动性驱动，宏观新闻可能一夜之间改变市场走势时。
When gold is reacting to global risk, crypto is moving on liquidity, and macro headlines can shift markets overnight.
您需要一个将所有资产集中管理的平台。
You need a platform that keeps everything in one place.
这就是Bitget通用交易所愿景的实践。
This is Bitget's universal exchange vision in action.
如果你是那种随着世界变化而调整的交易者，Bitget就是为你打造的。
If you're the kind of trader who adapts as the world changes, Bitget is built for you.
在一个平台上开始交易加密货币和传统金融资产。
Start trading crypto and TradFi in one place.
点击节目说明中的链接。
Click the link in the show notes.
这不是投资建议。
This is not investment advice.
《华尔街日报》报道了这条新闻，同时纳斯达克也发布了官方公告。
Breaking news out of the Wall Street Journal reported this, but also a Nasdaq press release.
纳斯达克正在设计一个代币化股票的框架，允许像英伟达或特斯拉这样的股票——我认为实际上是所有股票——既可以作为传统股票交易，也可以作为基于区块链的代币交易。
Nasdaq is designing a framework for tokenized equities that would allow stocks like Nvidia or Tesla, I think really is all stocks, to trade either as a traditional share or as a blockchain based tokens.
我们两者都支持。
We get both.
我们两种都能获得。
We get both.
我们两种都能获得。
We get both.
两种版本，这才是关键功能。
Both versions, this is this is the critical feature.
两种版本会拥有相同的CUSIP和相同的QSIP，我今天早上醒来前就完全清楚那是什么了。
Both versions would get the same CUSIP, the same QSIP, which I totally knew exactly what that was before I woke up this morning.
QSIP是什么？
What's a q sip?
QSIP基本上就是股票的社会安全号码。
A q sip is a basically a social security number for a stock.
好的，所以就像一个唯一标识符，
Okay, so like a unique identifier,
股票的唯一电话号码，你知道，这只股票是什么？
unique a phone number for a stock like, know, what what's the stock?
我怎么识别这只股票？
How do I identify the stock?
Cue sip？
Cue sip?
所以我们现在有了在纳斯达克交易的那些，我们也需要同样的东西能在公共区块链上交易，它们也需要有相同的Q sips。
And so we now that we have the ones that trade on Nasdaq, and we need the same things to also trade on public blockchains, they need to have the same Q sips.
这就是关键突破。
And that's, that's the unlock.
所以这些都是在DTCC注册的，对吧？
So it's all registered with the DDTC, right?
DTCC。
DTCC.
是的。
Yes.
DTCC。
DTCC.
谢谢。
Thank you.
明白了这些缩写。
Got these acronyms.
对。
Right.
这个角色是什么？
What is role in this?
很高兴你问到这一点。
I'm glad you asked.
是的。
Yeah.
所以纳斯达克是在纳斯达克交易所上做所有这些事情吗？
So Nasdaq does all of this stuff on the Nasdaq exchange?
是的。
Yes.
Kraken 将在区块链上执行所有这些操作。
Kraken will be doing all the stuff on the blockchains.
这很酷。
So that's cool.
他们有自己的 x 股票代币格式，就像代币技术栈一样。
They have their x stocks token format like token tech stack.
是的。
Yep.
用来做这件事。
For doing this.
它最初是在 Solana 上启动的。
It started on Solana.
现在它已经在以太坊、特隆上，Tornado Cash 股票也是这样。
It's now on Ethereum, Tron, Tornado Cash stocks is Yeah.
因此，纳斯达克只是使用 Kraken 的 x 股票技术栈，将股票以代币形式分发到区块链上。
And so Nasdaq is just using Kraken's x stocks, tech stack to distribute stocks as tokens on blockchains.
好的。
Okay.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，从加密货币的角度来看，这场变革的最大赢家显然是Kraken。
I mean, so the big winners of this, I think, in crypto is clearly it's Kraken.
显然是
It's clearly
是的。
Yeah.
X stocks，这是与Kraken合作的第三方机构。
X stocks, which is a third party that's partnered with Kraken around this.
此外，涉及的区块链包括Solana、Ethereum，还有你提到的其他一些链，比如Chainlink负责Oracle服务。
Also, of the chains involved, Solana, Ethereum, maybe some of the other chains that you mentioned too, Chainlink doing the Oracle stuff.
因此，从加密货币的角度来看，这里有一些赢家。
So there's some winners here from a crypto perspective.
不过，大卫，这个项目还要一年后才上线。
Now this doesn't roll out for another year, David.
所以要到2027年才行。
So not until the 2027.
所以这是一个重大的合作公告。
So big partnership announcement.
我的意思是，这些是全球规模最大、最深厚的科技资本市场，汇聚了世界上一些最令人兴奋的公司，但它们要到明年才会影响到我们。
I mean, these these biggest, deepest tech capital markets in the world, some of the most exciting companies in the world, but it's not gonna hit us till next year.
这仍然是一个相当重要的事件，而且，说实话，市场对它的反应有些冷淡。
It's still a pretty big deal, and, I mean, the response was somewhat muted about it.
我的意思是，我们并没有看到加密货币价格因为这条消息而有任何波动。
I mean, we didn't we didn't get crypto prices doing anything on the on the back of this news.
所以，这再次表明市场可能正处于一种冷漠状态。
So again, this points to maybe the apathy market.
是的，没错。
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
此外，这个领域还有很多竞争对手。
Also, there is just a bunch of competition in this space too.
所以，他们并不是唯一在做这件事的人。
So like, they're not the only ones trying to do this.
比如纽约证券交易所也有自己的策略。
Like the New York Stock Exchange has their own strategy.
Robinhood 也有自己的策略。
Robinhood has its own strategy.
我还没听说 Coinbase 有什么动静，但你可以想象他们肯定正在酝酿些什么。
I, you know, haven't heard of Coinbase is yet, but you can only imagine that they've got they've got to be brewing something up over there.
是的，每个人都想参与进来。
Yeah, everyone everyone wants to do it.
这是一种布局。
This is a take.
纳斯达克刚刚与 Kraken 合作，实现通宵达旦交易代币化股票。
The Nasdaq just partnered with Kraken to enable twenty four seven trading of tokenized stocks.
当然，这就是优势。
Of course, that's the benefit.
最疯狂的是，它运行在Kraken上，而不是通过嘉信理财和TD等传统经纪商。
The craziest part is it run it runs on Kraken, not through traditional brokers like Schwab and TD.
我想我们已经提到一些赢家了。
I guess we pointed out some of winners.
那输家是谁？
Who are the losers?
是传统的金融巨头，比如嘉信理财。
It's old TradFi, Schwab
是所有没有这么做的人。
It's anyone not doing this.
是的。
Yeah.
就是那些没有这么做的人。
Who are not doing this.
所以这是一个巨大的转变。
So it's a big move.
埃里克·沃里希表示，这是他今年的重要主题之一。
Erik Voorhees says that this is one of his big themes of the year.
代币化并不会取代ETF，而是会使其更加普及。
It's how tokenization isn't gonna replace ETFs, but rather distribute them.
这实际上是看涨的。
It's actually bullish.
这将把全球最受欢迎的ETF和股票带到链上和欠发达国家的人们手中。
This will deliver the world's most beloved ETFs and stocks to people on chain and less developed countries.
基本上，让大众都能轻松拥有VOOO。
You get VOOO and chill for the masses, basically.
这些是相当受欢迎的ETF。
These are bit popular ETFs.
抱歉。
Sorry.
VOO。
VOO.
VOOO是什么？
What is VOOO?
那是先锋基金。
That's Vanguard.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
它是先锋基金的某个产品。
It's a Vanguard something.
对。
Yeah.
我不知道chill是什么，但我知道。
And I don't know what chill is, but a I know.
我觉得他是在引用Netflix和放松的梗。
I think he's making a Netflix and chill reference.
我没明白。
I didn't get it.
放松。
Chill.
我当时就想，是的。
I was like, yeah.
那里本来应该是全大写的。
It would have been all caps there.
抱歉，瓦尔·突尼斯。
Sorry, Val Tunis.
你得向Crack致敬，他们最近发布了一些非常出色的传统金融相关公告，真的做到了像DeFi的鲻鱼发型那样，
I do you have to give a tip of the hat to crack and they've had some banger TradFi oriented announcements lately that like really do the whole kind of like the defi mullet thing of like,
哦，
oh,
是的，纳斯达克在传统金融和传统金融领域，同时在去中心化金融中取得突破。
yeah, Nasdaq on the TradFi and on TradFi and cracking in DeFi.
是的，在链上取得突破
Yeah, cracking on chain
破界金融
crack fi.
是的
Yeah.
破界金融
And crack fi.
是的，是的
Yeah, yeah.
嗯，他们已经发布了那个了。
Well, they have that out.
是的
Yeah.
而且我们知道他们正在为IPO做准备，我猜今年就会进行。
And they we know that they're gearing up for an IPO, I would assume this year.
所以他们一直在酝酿一些相当重要、分量十足的公告。
And so they've been like teeing up a pretty good, like, pretty weighty announcements.
是的，他们的IPO，
Yeah, their their IPO,
你知道，Kraken会希望在纳斯达克上市，并且把自己代币化，然后当然还会发行自己的代币化股票。
you know, Kraken is gonna want to go on the Nasdaq and like tokenize themselves, And then, you know, obviously have their own tokenized stock.
哇。
Wow.
这是一个非常递归的玩法。
Very recursive play.
这会很有趣。
That'd be fun.
这会很有趣。
That'd be fun.
为什么不呢？
Why not?
是的，你能把股票代币化吗？
Yeah, can you can you tokenize the stock?
然后你能反过来操作吗？
And then can you go backwards?
你能一直这样循环下去吗？
Can you keep on looping it?
我不知道。
I don't know.
我们稍后在节目中会进一步讨论加密原生代币如何来回代币化，从链上到链下。
We got more talk about this later in the episode about actually crypto native tokens going back and tokenizing themselves and going from on chain to off chain.
所以，不，是股权自我证券化，是的。
So no, equity Securitizing themselves Yeah.
转化为股权。
Into equity.
我的意思是，这座桥梁在所有地方都是双向的。
What I'm saying is the bridge is going two ways here in all in all places.
不过，我们来谈谈一些坏消息。
Let's talk about some bad news, though.
司法部本周宣布，他们将重新审理罗马风暴案。
The DOJ announced on this week that they are going to retry the Roman Storm case.
大卫，给我们回顾一下罗马风暴案以及上次的情况。
David, recall for us the Roman Storm case and the first time this went around.
当时发生了什么？
What happened?
罗马风暴是Tornado Cash隐私混合器的开源开发者，该工具被加入了OFAC制裁名单。
Roman Storm open source developer of Tornado Cash, the privacy mixer, which got added to the OFAC sanctions list.
这是首个被加入OFAC制裁名单的技术非实体，因为朝鲜和其他敌对势力利用Tornado Cash进行洗钱。
First ever technology non entity that was ever added to the OFAC sanctions list because North Korea and other adversaries were using Tornado Cash to launder money.
尽管罗马风暴对这款软件完全无法控制，因为它是一个自治程序，但他仍因此被起诉。
Roman Storm got charged for building it despite being totally out of his control because it's autonomous bit of software.
那次审判发生在2025年8月。
That trial happened in August 2025.
联邦陪审团裁定Storm犯有串谋经营未经许可的资金传输业务罪，从Roman Storm的角度来看，这是所有指控中最轻的一项。
A federal jury convicted Storm on one count conspiracy to operate an unlicensed money transmitter business, which of all the counts was the least serious one from a Roman storm perspective.
所以这算是最轻的罪名，他还能回家和女儿待在一起。
So that's like the least serious one he gets to go home and hang out with his daughter.
这不错。
That's good.
而最严重的罪名是他。
And he's the most serious one.
对吧？
Right?
他才是应该上诉的人。
He's the one to appeal it.
是的。
Yeah.
但这是与加密货币去中心化金融最相关的一个严重指控，因为它暗示开源开发者可能被视为资金传输者。
But it's the most serious one as it relates to crypto DeFi, because it implies that open source developers can be money transmitters.
对。
Right.
陪审团在洗钱和违反制裁的指控上未能达成一致。
The jury the jury deadlocked on money laundering and sanctions violations.
所以这还不错。
And so that's good.
这就是发生的事情。
So that's what happened.
现在，司法部提议在十月初进行重审，尽管罗曼·斯托姆的现有定罪正在被挑战。
Now the DOJ has proposed an early October retrial even as Roman Storm's existing conviction is being challenged.
因此，有两项重审指控：串谋洗钱和串谋违反IEEPA制裁。
So there are two retrial accounts, conspiracy to commit commit money laundering and conspiracy to violate IEEPA sanctions.
和之前一样，如果他在这两项指控上被判有罪，加上之前的定罪，他最高可能面临四十五年监禁。
Same things that they did once before, and Roman Storm faces up to forty years if he is convicted on these plus five years for the prior conviction.
这真是令人非常失望的消息，因为司法部是否重新起诉完全是可以选择的。
So this is incredibly disappointing news because it was completely optional as to whether the DOJ would retry this or not.
我的意思是，第一次审理时，有12名美国陪审员，历时四周的证据呈现，最终却得出了陪审团无法达成一致的结论。
I mean, first time around, it was a jury of 12 Americans, four weeks of evidence, and they came away with a hung jury.
当时是僵局。
It was deadlocked.
对吧？
Right?
没错。
Right.
所以他们本可以就此罢手。
And so they could have just stopped.
他们本不必对罗马再次就这些指控进行重审。
They didn't have to retry Roman on these counts.
这是罗马本人在推特上发布的原话，他在这里回顾了整个事件的经过。
So this is Roman in his own words tweeting this out, and he's giving a history here.
他提到了自原始庭审以来发生的一些事情。
He's saying some things that have happened since the original court case.
唐纳德·特朗普宣布，对加密货币的打压已经结束。
Donald Trump declared that the war on crypto is is over.
司法部长在一份司法部备忘录中表示，他们并非数字资产监管机构，也不会针对终端用户的混币服务。
The attorney general in a in a memo, DOJ memo, said that they are not a digital asset regulator, and they wouldn't target mixers for end user accounts.
美国财政部，你知道的，你提到的被列于制裁名单上的Tornado Cash。
The US Treasury, you know, you're talking about it being on the sanction list, Tornado Cash.
他们已将Tornado Cash的智能合约完全从制裁名单中移除。
They removed Tornado Cash contracts from the sanction list entirely.
财政部在2026年3月——也就是本月——表示，合法使用数字资产的用户可以使用混币器来实现财务隐私。
Treasury in March 2026, that's just this month, said that lawful users of digital assets may leverage mixers to enable financial privacy.
我们原本以为，有了这一届政府，他们已经叫停了追查，对开源隐私开发者更加开放，但看来并非如此。
So we thought we were in the clear with this administration that they were calling off the dogs, and they were just, you know, being much more open to open source privacy developers, but it appears not.
而这场打压行动的领头人之一，其实是——你还记得加里·根斯勒之前的那位吗？
And one of the people leading this war is act actually, do you remember the pre Gary Gensler Yeah.
他是谁？
Who he was?
嗯，是的。
Uh-huh.
杰伊·克莱顿。
Jay Clayton.
说出他的名字。
Say his name.
杰伊·克莱顿。
Jay Clayton.
杰伊·杰伊·克莱顿。
Jay Jay Clayton.
天啊。
Man.
他是个坏人。
He's a bad man.
他并没有证明自己是加密货币的朋友。
He is not proving himself to be a a friend of crypto.
实际上，Bankless 上有一篇文章讲到了他的一些过往。
So there was a story actually in in Bankless about some of his history.
现在，杰伊·克莱顿是美国纽约南区的联邦检察官。
So Jay Clayton is now the US attorney general for the Southern District Of New York.
他正在主导这里的行动。
He's leading the charge here.
他是那个决定重新起诉的人。
He's the guy who is deciding to reprosecute.
他就是第一次决定起诉的人。
He was the guy who decided to prosecute the first time.
当他担任 SEC 主席时，他还主导了对 Ripple 的诉讼。
He also brought the Ripple lawsuit together when he was back at the the chair of the SEC.
不仅仅是罗马·斯托姆，还有 Samurai 钱包的开发人员。
Not only Roman Storm, the Samurai Wallet developers.
他正在做这一切，而他虽然是特朗普任命的，但特朗普却口口声声支持加密货币。
He's doing all of this, and he's a Trump appointee despite Trump's pro crypto rhetoric.
是的。
Yeah.
所以是的。
So Yeah.
这里有个问题：当你在起诉开源软件开发者时，你怎么能自称是世界加密之都呢？
There's a problem here in terms of how can you be the crypto capital of the world when you're prosecuting an open source software developer?
杰伊·克莱顿的上司是谁？
Who's Jay Clayton's boss?
是谁在指示他做这些事，或者给他这样的权力，却不受总统至少是口头表态的制约？
Who's telling him to do these things or giving him the leash to do these things without being checked on by at least the rhetoric of the president.
是的。
Yeah.
他是特朗普任命的，所以你可以想象他完全融入了整个体系。
He's a Trump appointee, so you'd imagine he's he's plugged into that whole apparatus.
对。
Right.
他怎么还没收到消息？
Which which has he not gotten the memo?
我不知道。
I don't know.
或者也许政府公开发布了一些声明，但还有一份内部备忘录，告诉你实际上该怎么做。
Or maybe maybe there's a public memo of things that the administration, people, the government are saying, and there's another insider memo of, like, what you are actually going to do.
我
I
意思是，对。
mean Right.
看他们做什么，而不是听他们说什么。
Watch what they're doing, not watch what they say.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这周另一件与此相关的事情是，财政部发布了一份报告。
Another thing that came down the the pike this week related to this is treasury dropped a report.
你还记得国会作为《清晰法案》的一部分，确实要求财政部就反洗钱、了解你的客户、市场监控和隐私混合器发表意见吗？
So do you recall congress as part of the Clarity Act, they actually asked treasury to weigh in on AML KYC and sir market surveillance and privacy mixers?
他们实际上在《天才法案》中对此作出了强制规定。
They actually mandated as part of the Genius Act.
他们对财政部说：嘿。
They said treasury, hey.
去写一份关于这个的报告吧。
Go write a report about this.
结果财政部真的去做了，并且这周发布了这份报告，一些加密领域的人看到报告中的某些措辞后开始庆祝。
Well, treasury went and they published a report this week, and some people in crypto saw some language in the report and started celebrating it.
这是《比特币杂志》。
So this is Bitcoin Magazine.
他们称赞这份报告指出，合法使用数字资产的用户可以利用混合器，在通过私有区块链交易时实现财务隐私。
They were praising that this report said that lawful users of digital assets may leverage mixers to enable financial privacy when transacting through private blockchains.
他们说，这是隐私方面的一大胜利。
A big win for privacy, they said.
确实，这份报告中提到了这一点。
And it is true in this report.
财政部承认隐私混合器存在非法用途，但也承认了其合法用途。
Treasury is acknowledging that there are nonlawful uses of privacy mixers, but there's also their they've acknowledged there's lawful uses of privacy mixers.
而这一点是拜登政府从未做过的。
And that's something the Biden administration never did.
他们曾说：哦，隐私混合器？
They were like, oh, privacy mixers?
肯定是犯罪行为，是坏的，甚至没有承认可能有美国公民只是合法使用这些服务来实现链上隐私。
Got to be criminal, to be bad, didn't even acknowledge that there could be American citizens that are just legitimately using these services for privacy on chain.
所以这是积极的一面。
So that is the good part.
但说实话，大卫，如果你读了这份报告，报告的其余部分其实不太乐观。
But honestly, David, if you read the report, the rest of the report is kind of bad.
所以这是指
So this is What
什么意思？
do mean?
哪方面？
In what way?
比如，它暗示我们要根据《爱国者法案》来监管隐私混币器。
Well, in the way like it is suggesting that we regulate privacy mixers under the Patriot Act.
事实上，它建议在《爱国者法案》下新增一项特别措施，针对非托管软件，也就是针对DeFi服务制定BSA（银行保密法）的子类别。
In fact, it's suggesting another special measure under the Patriot Act to be targeted noncustodial software, talking about the creation of subtypes of the BSA, Bank Secrecy Act, targeted at DeFi services.
我们不希望
We don't want
BSA和DeFi混为一谈。
the BSA and DeFi to be all together.
这是两码事。
It's it's a different thing.
这是《银行保密法》。
It's a Bank Secrecy Act.
去中心化金融不是银行。
DeFi is not a bank.
对吧？
Right?
撤销、修改或更新。
To rescind, modify, or update.
实际上，2019年曾有美国金融犯罪执法网络的指导文件指出，如果你是非托管软件开发者，你就不是资金传输者。
There was some guidance actually in 2019, FinCEN guidance, that specified that if you were a non custodial software developer, you're not a money transmitter.
他们对我们这样说过，这在Roman Storm案中是一个有利的先例。
They said that to us, and that was a, you know, pro case in the Roman Storm case.
但这里说的是我们应该以某种方式修改这一规定。
Well, this is saying that we should modify that in certain ways.
这其实并没有强化这一点。
It wasn't really reinforcing this.
而且，通常建议我们利用人工智能对DeFi协议进行数据监控，并为DeFi协议建立数字身份，以有效实现反洗钱和了解你的客户要求。
And, also, generally recommending that we use AI for data surveillance of DeFi protocols and that we have digital identities for digital for DeFi protocols in place that effectively do the AML KYC thing.
这对加密货币的隐私并不友好，而且这来自财政部。
So it's not great for crypto privacy, and this is coming out of the treasury.
因此，我心中确实有个疑问：当我们说美国是世界加密货币之都时，我们到底指的是什么样的加密货币？
So there's really a question in my mind as to, you know, when we're talking about America being the crypto capital of the world, what do we mean by crypto, actually?
你还记得本·亨特的这种观点吗？他曾经作为往期播客嘉宾登上银行列表，他说：国家政权永远不会允许你拥有真正的去中心化、私密的加密货币。
You remember this Ben Hunt kind of argument where he came on bank list as a previous podcast guest and he said, look, the nation state's never going to actually allow you to have real self sovereign crypto, private crypto?
是的。
Yeah.
他们不会让你做那些酷炫的密码朋克事情。
They're not gonna let you do the badass cypherpunk things.
他们只会让你玩加密货币主题乐园那一套。
They're going to let you have the crypto Disneyland stuff.
没错。
That's right.
封装好的加密货币。
The shrink-wrap crypto.
他称之为加密货币™。
He called it crypto TM.
对吧？
Right?
商标加密货币。
Trademark crypto.
我确实觉得，这一届政府在加密货币™相关事务上给了我们很多好东西，比如华尔街欢呼的那些内容。
And I do feel like this administration is giving us a lot of great things with respect to kind of the the crypto TM stuff like the stuff that Wall Street is cheering on.
对吧？
Right?
所以我们
So we
民主党人说：我们要禁止你们。
The Democrats were like, we're gonna ban you guys.
是的。
And Yeah.
我的理解是，唐纳德·特朗普政府的意思是，你们想要的一切都可以打包好，作为金融产品推向华尔街。
I what you're saying is like, well, the the Donald Trump administration is like, we get to have everything that we want shrink wrapped and put behind Wall Street as products.
没错。
That's right.
加密货币TM。
The Crypto TM.
对吧？
Right?
所以我们有了商品期货交易委员会和华尔街，所有这些。
So we get the CFTC and Wall Street, all that.
这很好。
And that's good.
太棒了。
That's great.
我们有稳定币。
We got stable coins.
这很棒。
That's great.
我们有加密货币托管，他们非常支持这一点。
We got because custody crypto, they're big fans of that.
他们非常支持交易所交易基金（ETF）。
They're big fan of ETFs.
去中心化金融（DeFi），他们基本上已经不再针对DeFi了，但一旦涉及隐私和自主加密货币，就不一样了。
DeFi, this has been kinda they they've called off the dogs largely on DeFi, but when it comes to privacy, when it comes to self sovereign crypto Yeah.
我认为财政部出来的东西是不行的。
I think what's coming out of treasury is a no.
证明这一点的是，他们仍在起诉罗马·斯托姆。
And the evidence for that is they're continuing to prosecute Roman Storm.
如果你还在这么做，你怎么能自称是全球加密货币之都呢？
How can you be the lowercase c crypto capital of the world if you're still doing that?
是的。
Yeah.
也许比民主党更好，也许比拜登政府更好，但在加密货币方面，我们仍然没有得到我们需要的东西。
Maybe better than the Democrats, maybe better than the Biden administration, but we're still not getting what we need on the crypto side of things.
这是因为隐私，因为它是混合器，这不仅仅是开源开发者的问题，而是像在对抗我认为国家会说的——国家安全威胁，而不是个人自由。
It is because it's privacy, because it's a mixer, it is not just open source developers, but it is like going up against what I think the nation state would say like a national security threat versus individual freedoms.
当你采纳国家对国家安全威胁的判断时，这个判断总是会认为：这是一个威胁，我们必须禁止它。
And when you take the judgment of the nation state about a nation state security threat, the judgment is always gonna be like, well, it's a threat and we need to ban it.
只有非常高尚的政治家和非常高尚的领导者，才能在国家利益面前，坚持保护个人自由、自主权和隐私权，因为国家本质上总是会优先保护自身。
And it takes a very noble politician and a very noble leader to preserve the rights of individual freedom and autonomy and privacy over the nation state because inherently the nation state is always going to protect itself.
是的。
Yeah.
这需要像开国元勋那样的人，以及数字权利法案、权利法案，来赋予人民公民自由，并信任他们拥有这些公民自由。
It takes people like the founding fathers and, you know, digital bill of rights, a bill of rights, you know, to give give civil liberties to the people and and to trust them with those civil liberties.
所以我想我们还没到那一步，但我们会看到的。
So I guess we're not there yet, but we will see.
我们会在节目笔记中提供一个链接。
There is a link we'll include in the show notes.
如果您想为罗马风暴事业捐款，请尽管行动。
If you'd like to donate to the Roman Storm cause, please do so.
您需要一些法律支持，这些资金将帮助您
You need some legal support, and those funds will help you
重新再来一遍。
do all over again.
是的。
Yeah.
但是
But
然后我们有了加密货币，我们可以保留它，这是那种野蛮西部式的、自由开放的、无需许可的版本。
then but then we get crypto and we get to keep it and it's the Wild West free open public permissionless version of the thing.
是的。
Yeah.
不是那种被包装成产品、然后在华尔街分销的东西。
Not the thing that just gets wrapped in into a product wrapper and distributed on Wall Street.
这次他完全有可能在法庭上胜诉。
And he could he could fully win in court this time.
所以，这是充满希望的情况。
So that is the hopeful case.
接下来，我们将介绍永远的好朋友。
Coming up next, we got best friends forever.
来自美国证券交易委员会和商品期货交易委员会的迈克和保罗。
Mike and Paul from the SEC and the CFTC.
他们正在推进加密项目。
They're working on project crypto.
此外，贝莱德发布了他们的以太坊质押ETF。
Also, BlackRock releasing their ETH staking ETF.
大卫，我知道你深入研究过这方面的细节。
David, I know you've investigated the details on that.
我想听听关于他们的事。
I wanna hear about them.
还有伯尼·桑德斯和对人工智能数据中心的暂停令。
And then Bernie Sanders and the moratorium on AI data centers.
这种反科技反弹是什么？它将走向何方？
What is this anti tech backlash, and where will it lead?
所有这些，还有更多。
All that and more.
但在那之前，我们要感谢让这一切成为可能的赞助商。
But before we get there, we wanna thank the sponsors that made this possible.
一些令人兴奋的消息。
Some exciting news.
我们即将推出一档新播客，帮助人们了解加密货币周期，以及如何应对它。
We are launching a new podcast to help people figure out the crypto cycle, how to navigate it.
我认识的最出色的加密货币周期投资者，他的名字叫迈克尔·纳托。
The best crypto cycle investor I know, his name is Michael Nato.
他运营着DeFi报告。
He runs the DeFi report.
就是这个人，在价格下跌10:10之前给我发了卖出提醒。
This is the guy that sent me a sell alert before the 10:10 price drop happened.
他的周期分析一直非常精准。
His cycle analysis has been absolutely on point.
我已经关注他好几年了。
I've been following him for years.
今年，我们开始每周录制播客节目。
And this year, we started recording weekly podcast episodes.
每一期，我们都会深入探讨他的投资组合、持仓情况、市场结构、入场目标、比特币和以太坊的公允价值，以及我们所处的周期阶段。
Each one, we get into his portfolio, what he's holding, the market structure, entry targets, fair market value of Bitcoin and Ether, and where we are in the cycle.
每周三都会发布新一期节目。
There's new episodes that are released every Wednesday.
每期时长三十分钟。
They're thirty minutes.
它们很简短。
They're short.
它们很精炼。
They're punchy.
我认为这个加密货币周期比大多数都更难把握，所以我们一起来应对吧。
I think this crypto cycle is harder to navigate than most, so let's do it together.
去订阅这个播客吧。
Go subscribe to this podcast.
在你收听播客的任何平台搜索《DeFi报告》，比如YouTube、Apple、Spotify，
Search the DeFi report wherever you get your podcasts, YouTube, Apple, Spotify,
或者查找
or find
节目说明中的链接。
a link in the show notes.
现在有一期新节目正在等你。
There's a new episode waiting for you now.
瑞安，这张照片真让我心里暖暖的。
Ryan, this picture just warmed my heart.
这是我在播客听众动态中见过的最温馨的画面之一。
This was one of the most heartwarming things I've seen on the timeline for the podcast listeners.
我们看到的是迈克·塞利格和新任CFC主席之间非常热烈的友谊，迈克·塞利格正坚定地与SEC主席保罗·阿特金斯握手。
We have just a very hearty Mike Selig bromance Mike Selig, the new chair of the CFC giving a nice firm handshake to the SEC chair Paul Atkins.
他们看起来无比开心。
And they just look overjoyed.
他们从未
They just never
在加里·根斯勒任内发生过。
happened with Gary Gensler.
那是加里·根斯勒时代的前任了。
Who's a previous Gary Gensler era.
就像加里曾经试图插手CFTC的职权范围。
Like Gary tried to do a like encroach on the CFTC territory.
我不记得具体是什么事了，但他确实这么做了。
I can't remember what it was about, but he did this.
然后CFTC不得不站出来表明立场，对加里说：
And then the CFTC had to like plant a flag being like Gary,
我们得撑住自己的地盘。
back our back.
不是所有东西都是证券。
Not everything is a security.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
所以保罗·阿特金斯发推说：SEC与CFTC之间的地盘争夺、重复注册和不同监管规则的时代结束了。
So Paul Atkins tweeted out, the era of turf wars, duplicative registrations and differing regulations between the SEC and CFTC is over.
通过统一监管定义、协调监管职责并促进数据共享，塞利克主席和我将确保为市场参与者提供应得的明确性。
By aligning regulatory definitions, coordinating oversight and facilitating data sharing, Chairman Selleck and I will ensure we deliver the clarity that market participants deserve.
我认为，如果你支持小政府，你会喜欢这一点，因为这理想地体现了两个机构用更少的资源做更多的事，超越了它们现有的能力。
This is I think if you're a fan of small government, you're a fan of this because this is ideally two agencies doing more with less, with more than what they have.
是的，一直有个普遍的问题，为什么我们要同时设立证监会和商品期货交易委员会？
Yeah, there's been a broad question of like, why do we have the SEC and the CFTC?
为什么不能只有一个大型的市场监管机构呢？
Why can't we just have one big markets regulator?
当我们邀请塞利克主席做客节目时，我们问过他这个问题。
This is something that we asked, chair selling when we had him on the show.
是的。
Yeah.
他的回答是，只要我们能好好协作，那就基本等同于那样了。
And his answer is like, well, if we can just collaborate, that's basically the same thing.
基本上是一样的。
Basically the same.
是的，这两个部门朝着相同的目标运作，只是名称不同。
Yeah, it's two departments toward the same set of goals names.
没错。
Exactly.
所以，除了推特上发布了一张握手的照片之外，真正发生的事情是，SEC和CFTC发布了一份谅解备忘录，这本质上是一份正式的操作指南，说明两个机构将如何完成它们需要做的所有工作。
So what actually officially happened other than a picture of a handshake being tweeted out is that the SEC and CFTC issued a memorandum of understanding, which is like essentially like a formal playbook on how the two agencies will do all of the stuff that they need to do.
共享信息、联合行动、统一定义、简化规则。
Sharing information, joint operations, common definitions, streamlined rules.
这就像是一条表达友好的推文。
It is, it's basically like a tweet of friendship.
我知道，但本就该从一开始就这样设置。
I know, but this should have been the way it was always set up to be.
对。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
我的意思是，这确实很好，我也很高兴，但这本质上是在宣布：政府现在要变得更有效率了。
Like the fact that, I mean, it's great, I'm glad, but this is basically an announcement that hey, government's gonna be more functional now.
我们将停止部门间的地盘争夺。
We're gonna stop doing silo turf wars.
是的。
Yeah.
你们本来就应该一直这么做，但我很高兴现在终于开始了。
We're gonna You should have always been doing that, but I'm glad that's happening now.
太好了。
It's great.
嗯哼。
Uh-huh.
但他们将会非常紧密地合作。
But they they are gonna work together very closely.
本周早些时候，我们在《Bankless》播客中听迈克·塞利格提到，他们也与加密项目紧密配合。
We heard from Mike Selig earlier this week on the Bankless podcast that they're they're, you know, hand in hand with Project Crypto as well.
这将是一个非常需要密切协作的领域。
And that's gonna be an area of close collaboration, is very needed.
我们来聊聊贝莱德的质押ETH ETF。
Let's get into the BlackRock staked ETH ETF.
所以，瑞安，第一个贝莱德ETH ETF的代码是什么？
So Ryan, what is the ticker for the first BlackRock ETH ETF?
你
Do you
我记得是ETH，对吧？
me ETH to remember what A, right?
ETH，是的。
ETH Yeah.
现在我们有了ETH B。
Now we got ETH B.
好的。
Okay.
我们有了ETH B。
We got ETH B.
所以，ETH A 适合想要持有未质押的 ETH，ETH B 适合想要质押以太坊的人。
So ETH A is if you want ETH unstaked, ETH B is if you want Ether staked.
既然能选 ETH B，我为什么还要选 ETH A？
Why would I want ETH A when I can get ETH B?
这是个好问题。
That's a good question.
如果你在券商账户里持有 ETH A，你可能需要考虑转为 ETH B。
If you are holding ETH A in your brokerage, you might want to consider transitioning to ETH B.
你肯定没有税务负担，因为自那以后 ETH 的价格确实下跌了。
You definitely don't have a tax liability because ETH price has definitely gone down since.
哦，确实如此。
Oh, that's true.
没错。
That's true.
你可以，但我要提醒我们的税务听众：这两者是两个独立的资产，因此这种转换将构成应税事件。
You can But that is transfer that I I should say for our tax listeners, of course, those are two separate assets, so that will be a taxable event.
这将是一个应税事件。
That will be a taxable event.
是的。
Yeah.
但这可能是一个税务损失收割的机会。
But it could be tax loss harvesting event.
对。
Yeah.
不错。
Nice.
好的。
Okay.
那么它到底是怎么运作的呢？
So how does it actually work?
我们之所以无法直接推出这个产品，是因为你不能简单地直接推出一个100%质押的ETHETF。
The reason why we haven't just been able to get this out the door is you actually just can't naively have a 100% staked ETH ETF.
那是
That's
对的。
right.
因为取款队列的存在。
Because of the withdraw queue.
是的。
Yes.
处理赎回很困难。
Doing redemptions is difficult.
这实际上是理论中一个潜在的问题所在，可能依赖于队列的长度。
It's actually kind of one of the problematic components of the theory potentially depends on the queue.
同时有多少其他质押者也在提款，导致这个队列曾经长达三十多天，
How many other stakers are withdrawing at the same time that queue has been as long as like thirty plus days,
四十天，甚至四十八天，我认为那是最长的时候，但现在没那么高了。
forty days, forty eight days, I think was the longest it's no longer that high now.
但问题是，像贝莱德这样的公司，在创建这种法律结构、实体和资产时，必须考虑所有可能的风险。
But the problem is, is like BlackRock, when they create this legal structure, this entity, this asset, they need to account for all possible risks.
是的。
Yeah.
这正是其中之一。
This is one of them.
因此，他们解决这个问题的方式是：80%用于质押，20%保持为普通资产。
And so the way that they solve this is that it's just 80% staked, 20% vanilla.
好的。
Okay.
因此，他们有20%的所谓流动性缓冲，目标是在正常市场条件下将70%至95%的ETH用于质押。
And so they have a 20%, what do they call this, a liquidity sleeve that targets between 7095% of its ETH to be staked under normal market conditions.
剩余的5%到30%则作为流动性缓冲保留，以便应对赎回需求。
The remaining five to 30% is kept as a liquidity sleeve And that allows for redemptions.
所以我说
So I said
你没有获得全部的质押收益
You're not getting the full staking
你没有获得
You're not getting the
全部的收益。
full stuff.
除了只有80%被质押外，还有18%的收益被抽成。
In addition to only 80% being staked, there is also 18% cut of the yield.
因此，对于资产所获得的每一美元质押奖励，贝莱德、Coinbase和部分验证者会拿走18美分。
And so for every dollar of staking rewards that the asset earns BlackRock and Coinbase and some of the validators take 18¢.
所以，如果你自己在家以Bankless的方式质押ETH，履行你对以太坊的义务，你获得的ETH年化收益率大约是3.5%。
And so if you are staking eat yourself the bankless way at home doing your duty to Ethereum, you are receiving like 3.5% eth yield.
如果你通过ETH B进行质押，银行利率则是2.87%。
If you do it in eth b, the banked rate is 2.87.
因此，这就是你选择贝莱德的ETH B所付出的便利成本。
So that is your cost of convenience for you if you do the BlackRock eth b.
这个产品现在推出了，真是太好了，对吧？
It's great that this product is now available, right?
这更像是互联网债券类型的迷因。
So this is kind of more of the internet bond type meme.
这是比特币所不具备的。
It's something that Bitcoin does not have.
所以这可能会吸引一些投资者，我们现在有两个ETF可以选择。
So maybe that's gonna be attractive to some investors, we had two ETFs to play around with.
是的，瑞安，我想在这里庆祝一下，我之前说过我不认为质押ETH的ETF会那么看涨。
Yeah, I would like to take a victory lap here, Ryan, where I previously said that I do not think the staked ETH ETF will be all that bullish.
但现在我改变了看法。
And I do.
我认为如果你去
I think if you go
看看熊市的情况，大卫。
look into the bear market, David.
别开玩笑了。
Come on.
以太坊价格对这一消息没有反应。
ETH price did not respond to this news.
是的。
Yeah.
完全没有。
Not at all.
完全没有。
Not at all.
只是置之不理。
Just shrugged it off.
不过今天确实发生了，这在背景中是个相当重要的事。
That happened today, though, so it's it's a pretty big deal in the background.
大卫，值得关注的一个趋势。
David, a trend to watch.
DeFi代币是否正在重新变回美国证券？
Are DeFi tokens turning back into US securities?
这是Across协议提出的一项提案。
This is a proposal, from the Across Protocol.
你能给我们讲讲这个吗？
Can you tell us about this?
所以，作为Across背后团队的Risk Labs做了一次初步调研。
So Risk Labs, which is the team behind Across, did a temp check.
这是一次温度测试。
This is a temperature check.
他们只是在试探一下，看看大家的想法。
They're just, you know, putting out a feeler about, hey.
你们对这些事情怎么看？
How do you guys feel about these things?
关于将DOW代币结构迁移到一家美国C型公司的可能性，这家公司将持有协议的知识产权并运营所有业务。
About the possibility of migrating the DOW token structure to a US C Corp, which would hold the protocol IP and run all operations.
所以对于人们来说，这有几个不同的选择
So there's a couple different options for What is it for people
如果不记得了，什么是Across？
who don't recall, what is a cross?
它是一个桥接协议，人们通常这么称呼它，这是一个高强度的跨链桥接协议。
It is a bridge protocol is what people know it as it's an intense space bridge protocol.
我使用Across在不同链之间跳转，现在这基本上都在后台自动完成了。
So I use across to hop from chain to chain is basically happens in the background now at this point.
但它本质上是一个互操作性协议。
But it is a interoperability protocol, basically.
好的，对于ACX持有者来说，有两个选项。
Okay, so there are two options for ACX holders.
一个是将ACX代币转换为股份。
One would be a ACX token to share conversion.
你会持有你的代币，然后它会直接转换为股权，这还挺酷的。
So you would hold your tokens, and then it would just convert to equity, which is kind of cool.
但那些未达到合格投资者标准、持有少于500万枚ACX代币的美国投资者需要获得合格投资者身份。
But problematic US investors who have under the who are not accredited, or have under 5,000,000 tokens will need to get accredited investor status.
因此，这里有一个相关的补充说明。
So small corollary there.
但这是跨链协议在将一个道琼斯指数相关的代币，本质上是加密原生代币，转换为一家美国私人C型公司股权的过程。
But this is this is the cross protocol going from a a Dow and, you know, a crypto native token essentially to a private US c corp.
这只是一个关于此事的临时摸底。
If this is a temp check about that.
有一个关于
There's a temp check about
此事的临时摸底。
that.
但如果真的发生，这实际上就是该提案的核心内容。
But if this happens, that's what the proposal effectively is.
你将从代币转为C型公司的私人股份，这基本上是一比一的转换或赎回。
You go from a token to a private shares in a C Corp, and it's kind of a one to one split or one to one redemption here.
是的
Yeah.
代币持有者的第二个选择是获得一个比当前价格高约25%的回购报价，这就是为什么价格会上涨的原因。
The the second option that a tax holders has is they just get a buyout at something that's like 25% premium to the price, which is why the price pumped.
该提案声称价格确实上涨了。
The proposal claims price did pop pop too.
看看这个。
Look at this.
是的，价格确实涨了不少。
Yeah, it did pop quite a lot.
它的市值从2500万美元涨到了4500万美元。
It went from $25,000,000 market cap to a $45,000,000 market cap.
FTV。
FTV.
Across的创始人给出的理由是，我们只需要一个中心化的实体。
The rationale that heart the founder of Across, he just says it's just like, we just need to have a centralized entity.
关于 Bayt 播客
Bayt 提供中文+原文双语音频和字幕，帮助你打破语言障碍，轻松听懂全球优质播客。