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所以

So

他就是那个提案的作者。

that's He's on the he's authoring the proposal.

对。

Yeah.

但你的意思不是说所有的研究员和所有的——对。

But you're not saying it's like all of the researchers and all of the Yeah.

我确实。

I've definitely.

我的意思是，EF内部并没有达成共识。

I mean, there's no consensus inside of the EF.

是的。

Yes.

你说得对。

You're right.

所以提出这个提案的人都是EF的研究人员，属于研究者类型。

So the people who are who have proposed this are all EF researchers and, like, the researcher type.

有趣的是，反对这个提案的都是Dapp层的人。

The people who are against this are interestingly all the Dapp layer people.

比如DeFi创始人，像Aave的Stani，以太坊的Mike Silagadze。

So DeFi founders like Stani from Aave, Mike Silagadze from Ethereum.

Lido也反对这个。

Lido is against this.

DC投资人作为社区成员，他非常反对这个。

DC investor, as a community member, he he is very anti this.

所以基本上就是EF，大概少数几个EF研究人员。

And so he's basically EF about a handful of EF researchers.

然后基本上，听起来

And then basically, sounds

像是个很棒的提案。

like a great proposal.

让我试着把两边的论点都过一遍。

Let me try and just like, run through the arguments for for

两边的。

both sides.

因为事情是这样的。

Because here's the thing.

事情是这样的。

Here's the thing.

你在过这些论点的时候，我真的很想弄明白。

As you're running through that, I I think I really want to understand.

对吧？

Right?

因为这个提案假设现在存在一些问题，而且这个问题很严重。

Because the proposal takes as a given that there is some problem right now and some problem with this.

它还假设我们正在朝着100%的目标前进，越接近100%，我们遇到的问题就越多。

And it takes a given that we are on this march towards 100%, and the the closer we get to 100%, the more problems that we'll see.

我觉得这个假设确实需要进一步强化。

I think that assumption really needs to be reinforced.

对。

Yeah.

那么作者们认为问题出在哪里呢？

So what do the authors say about the problem here?

对。

Yeah.

那么支持减少发行量或者说目标发行的论点就是，以太坊在安全方面花了太多钱。

So so the the the pro case, the pro argument for tapering slash targeting is that Ethereum is overpaying for security.

大体上来说，大家一直在讨论以太坊在安全上支出过高，所以我们应该降低发行量。

And as a broad strokes, Ethereum has been discussed that Ethereum is overpaying for security, so therefore we should reduce issuance.

这种事情已经发生很多次了。

That has happened many times.

在权益证明之前的工作量证明阶段，每个区块的奖励从五个以太币降到三个，再降到两个，一直到合并之前都是这样。

When we were in the proof of work phase, e issuance went from five Ether block down to three Ether block down to two Ether block before we had the merge.

所以这有点先例，就是说，嘿，我们为安全付得太多了，那就少付点吧。

And so there's a little bit of precedent of, hey, we're overpaying for security, let's pay less for security.

这其实就是经济效率的问题，也是让以太币更高效的问题。

And that's just a matter of like economic efficiency and making ether.

这符合最低可行发行的社会契约。

It goes along the social contract of minimum viable issuance.

就像，如果我们支持最低可行发行，那这就是那个意思。

Like, if we like minimum viable issuance, this is that.

所以这是一个支持的理由。

So that's one pro argument.

下一个支持的理由是，无限制的质押，也就是没有上限、没有约束的质押激励，会削弱普通以太币的货币属性，并且让网络中心化到流动性质押代币上。

The next pro argument is that unbounded staking, so a a capless, a constraintless amount of incentive to stake ETH erodes vanilla ETH's moneyness and centralizes the network on LSTs.

所以如果有一亿个以太币被质押，你会看到像Lido质押到以太币，或者Rocket Pool之类的。

And so with 100 ETH staked, you're going to see like Leidos stake to ETH or like rocket pool or ETH.

这些在以太坊经济中会成为以太币，因为普通以太币都会被质押掉。

Those will be ether in the Ethereum economy because of Vanilla ETH will all be staked.

所以你会看到原生ETH逐渐消失，取而代之的是流动性质押衍生代币。

So you'll actually see a disappearance of Vanilla ETH, and it will be replaced by liquid staking derivative tokens.

所以对以太坊经济来说，基本上就是Lido的stETH或者Rocket Pool的rETH，某种LST，而不是原生ETH。

And so as far as the Ethereum economy is concerned, basically, it's going to be Leidos staked ETH or Rocket Pool's R ETH, some sort of LST rather than Vanilla ETH.

这样一来，网络就被这些流动性质押代币控制了，原生ETH就慢慢消失了。

And so that in that captures the network by these liquid staking tokens, and Vanilla ETH kind of disappears.

而且在这种情况下，原生ETH相对于那些其他单位，确实会失去它的货币属性。

And there's no argument there under that that ETH would ETH Vanilla ETH would lose its money ness relative to those other units.

对吧？

Right?

这就像在美国经济中，我们不用美元，而是用国债之类的来交易。

It it'd be almost like rather than in The US economy, rather than us using the dollar, we're using like treasuries or something like that.

甚至不是国债，而是用美国银行的货币市场基金来支付股票期权。

Or not even treasuries, we're using like Bank of America money markets in order to pay our stock options.

对吧？

Right?

没错。

Exactly.

对。

Yeah.

嗯嗯。

Uh-huh.

是的。

And yeah.

而且，如果你只是想持有普通以太币，如果这个提案通过，持有普通以太币会更容易接受，而且不会因为持有普通以太币而被稀释那么多。

And so, like, this also just kind of if you are just trying to hold vanilla ether, it this allows if this proposal goes through, holding vanilla will just be much more palatable, and you won't get diluted nearly as much by holding vanilla ether.

所以这是一个支持以太坊作为货币的论点。

And so it's a it's a pro ethos money change is is an argument.

是的。

Is Yes.

这是一个论点。

Like is an argument.

对。

Yeah.

还有最后一点，就像……就像

And then lastly, it's like it's like

一个非常小的改动。

a a minimal change.

其实没那么复杂。

It's really not that complicated.

他们管这个叫可信方案。

They call it credible.

它其实就是个永久不变的常数，其他大部分东西都保持原样。

It's just a permanent single constant that leaves most things intact.

比如，MEV（最大可提取价值）不会变。

Like, MEV is not being changed.

EIP-1559也不会改，现在大家把它包装成像是把合并后的货币架构给补全了似的。

EIP one five five nine is not being changed, and it's kinda being framed as, like, just completing the post merge monetary architecture.

这是一个很小的技术改动。

It's a minimal, like, technical change.

我们只需要改代码里的几个变量就能实现。

It's just like a few variables in the code we have to change to make this happen.

比如说，从技术角度看，改动很小，但任何时候你动货币政策或发行量，嗯，这可不是小改动。

Like, saying it's a minimal change from a like, anytime you do anything to monetary, like, policy and issuance Yeah.

这可不是小改动。

This is a it ain't a minimal change.

这是一个相当大的社会变革，但他们说从技术角度看改动很小。

This is a pretty big social change, but they're saying it's minimal from a tech perspective.

这不复杂。

It's not complicated.

对。

Yes.

系统里不会出现bug。

There's not going to be a bug in the system.

实现起来挺简单的。

It's it's pretty easy to implement.

对。

Yep.

好的。

Okay.

反对者认为，这实际上加速了它声称要解决的中心化问题。

The opposition argues that this actually just accelerates the centralization that it claims to fix.

压缩收益、减少ETH质押者的发行量，会让边缘的ETH质押者更难。

So compressing yield, reducing the amount of issuance for ETH stakers makes it more difficult for the marginal ETH stakers.

所以，单独质押者和家庭质押者会更难，因为他们不如Lido或Figment这样的工业级商业质押者高效。

So solo stakers and home stakers are going to have a harder time because they are less efficient than the industrial commercial stakers like Lido or Figment.

所以，你只是

So Well, you just

把他们的收入减半，但他们还有

cut their revenue in half, but they have

同样的固定成本。

the same fixed costs.

没错。

Exactly.

所以那些真正优化运营、把固定成本降到最低的人，在这里会做得更好。

And so people who really op like, operationalize and minimize their fixed cost do better here.

但是，那些业余的质押者，那些自己买硬件、自己承担所有费用的人，他们会被挤出去。这些就是家庭质押者、独立验证者。而以太坊作为一个社会契约和系统，一直维护着个人独立质押者的主权和权力。

But, know, the hobbyist staker, the people that carry their own hardware, you know, pay for pay for all the costs, Those people are getting pushed out, and that's going to be the home staker, the the solo validator, which as a social contract and as like a system, you know, Ethereum has always preserved the sovereignty and power of the individual solo staker.

以太坊就是由这些人运行的。

That is like that's who runs Ethereum.

以太坊不是由公司或机构创造的产品。

You know, Ethereum is not a product by corporations and institutions.

它是用户为用户创造的产品，而这样做会让这一点变得更难实现。

It's a product by the user for the user, and this makes that harder.

下一个论点是，质押收益是DeFi的基准利率。

The next argument is that staking yield is DeFi's base rate.

所以，杠杆质押循环、在Aave上质押的LST抵押品，还有结构化产品、机构和财库配置，所有这些，加上质押收益本身，都是支撑起大量DeFi的核心基础。

So leveraged staking loops, LST collateral on Aave, you know, structured product, institutional and Trevor treasury allocations, all of that all the fact that staking yield is a thing is a pretty core primitive that holds up a lot of DeFi.

把它降到零，会摧毁DeFi赖以建立的很多东西，也会减少DeFi里大量的以太币。

Tapering it towards zero collapses so much of what DeFi is built on and just reduces a lot of the ether in DeFi.

所以，如果你的普通以太币没有收益，那你可以去DeFi里赚。

So if your vanilla ether isn't getting yield, well, you can get it in DeFi.

而如果以太币没有收益了，我觉得，很多以太币就没有理由留在DeFi里了，DeFi的TVL会减少，整个行业也会变得不那么丰富。

And taking the yield away from ether, I think the argument is that a lot of ether would not have a reason to be in DeFi, and DeFi would just be have less TBL and be overall less rich as like a a sector.

最后一点，是可信度和流程。

And then lastly, credibility and process.

这就像发行量的争论。

This is just like the issuance debate.

研究人员说，嘿，咱们赶紧推进吧，但只给了四十八小时的评论期，时间很紧。

There's like a forty eight hour comment period and aggressive timeline from the the researchers who are saying, like, yo, let's let's push this through.

然后社区就说，对，但这也太快了。

And then the community is like, yeah, it's too too fast.

而且以太坊的发行量本来就已经非常低了。

And then also just like issuance in Ethereum is all already extremely low.

它是最低的链之一，如果不是最低的话。

It's one of the lowest, if not the lowest chain with low the lowest issuance.

为什么我们还要再降低它呢？

Why are we trying to lower it anymore?

这不是个问题。

This is not a problem.

对。

Coin.

它已经和比特币在运行了十二年之后的发行量一样低了。

It's it's as low as Bitcoin after, like, twelve years, you know, of of Bitcoin doing this.

所以我们是不是在试图解决一个其实不是问题的问题？

So it's it's just are we trying to fix a problem that's not actually a problem?

对。

Right.

为什么说，完美是好的敌人。

Why the like, per like, perfect is the enemy of good.

我们现在已经相当不错了。

We're pretty good here.

为什么还要追求完美呢？

Why are we trying to be perfect?

还有，模型模拟者也说，如果这些改变实施，我们低估了二阶效应。

And then also mod modelers of, saying that this is just like we under underestimate second order effects if this changes go through.

我们并不真正了解二阶效应，这很危险，所以还是别动它了。

We don't really know the second order effects, and that is dangerous, And so let's just not touch it.

所以我觉得这就是两方的观点。

So I feel like those are the two sides.

这里还有一个我见过的子论点，我觉得也挺有道理，就是说，嘿。

There's another subargument here that I've seen, which I think is also good, which is like, hey.

每次你打开调整货币和发行量旋钮的窗口，你就相当于重置了时钟，现在所有人都知道你的价值存储资产实际上可以被调整和改变。

Anytime you open the window to changing the dials on monetary and issuance, you kind of reset the clock, and now everyone knows your store value asset can actually be tweaked and changed.

这就是古老的比特币2100万上限的论点，他们对以太坊的核心批评就是，你们会调整这些参数。

This is the ancient Bitcoin 21,000,000 argument, and their core criticism of Ethereum is, like, you guys move the dials.

所以，每次你调整参数，就证明了参数是可以被调整的，也证明了背后有某种中心化的势力在操控。

And so, like, anytime you move the dials, you prove that the dials can be moved, and you prove that there's some sort of centralized cabal, you know, like, doing this.

所以，如果你动了参数，就玷污了整个实验。

And so, like, if you move the dial, you sully the experiment at all.

对吧？

Right?

然后你的立场就变成了，我们现在就调几次。

And then you're in position is now we'll move it a few times.

而且我觉得我们会把它调得更严格，对ETH持有者更有利。

And I think we'll move it to being more restrictive and beneficial to ETH holders.

没错。

That's right.

没错。

That's right.

对，

That's

我总是往那个方向想，不是总是倾向于减少发行量，而是增加发行量。

the Always one I in that direction, not like always in favor of less issuance, not more issuance.

我不，我不认同那个论点。

I'm not I'm not into that argument.

我认同的那个版本是，汤姆·李刚买了5%的以太坊，他的整个想法就是质押赚收益，而我们正要从他那里抢走这个。

I think the version of that argument that I do agree with is yo, Tom Lee just bought 5% of ETH and his whole entire idea is that he gets to stake it and get the yield and we're just rugging that from him.

搞什么鬼？

What the fuck?

所以，作为对社会契约的篡改，我认为这是非常合理的。

And so that as a adulteration of the social contract, I think is very valid.

汤姆·李肯定会说，你们到底在搞什么？

And Tom Lee is gonna be like, what the fuck are you guys doing?

如果这惹恼了汤姆·李，他把以太坊卖了怎么办？

What what if this pisses off Tom Lee and he sells the ether?

不是因为Tom Lee担心你们乱动货币政策，而是因为他担心你们毁掉他投资的价值。

Not inherently because Tom Lee is like, I'm worried about you guys, like, tinkering with the monetary policy, but because I'm worried about you guys destroying the value of my investment.

我其实觉得你可能低估了这一点，或者至少我把它看得很重。

I actually think that you might be underrating that or at least I rate that, like, much higher.

我觉得调整货币政策这种操作。

I think that tinkering of the dials of monetary policy.

我认为必须要有绝对的压倒性共识。

I think there has to be absolute overwhelming consensus.

就像，任何发行量的改变都得像国会通过法案一样，要有99个参议员投赞成票才行。

Like, it has to be like a a bill going through congress with 99 senators voting yes for any issuance change to happen.

而且尤其是在我们处于这个阶段，我同意这一点。

And especially when we're at this point of like I agree with that.

我同意我们已经有了非常好的发行量。

I agree with already have, like, really good issuance.

已经没问题了。

It's already fine.

你们在解决什么问题？

What problems are you solve?

我想我有点暴露了自己在这个辩论中的立场。

I guess I'm sort of revealing my hand of like, where I sit on this debate a little too much.

但我确实相信比特币的观点，你必须固化货币政策。

But I guess I I really do believe the Bitcoin argument of, you gotta ossify that monetary policy.

以太坊越快实现完全固化，而且没人去动它，因为它已经足够好了，这对货币属性和价值存储属性就越有利。

And the faster that Ethereum gets to complete ossification of it, and that no one touches it because it's, like, good enough, the better for the moneyness use case and the story value use case.

我觉得双方都有意思的地方，然后我们可以聊聊我们看到的一些观点，你怎么想，我也许怎么想，就是双方都在为单独质押者说话，你知道，为了去中心化。

What I think is interesting about both sides, and then we could talk, like, about some of the takes that we've seen and what what you think and and maybe what I think, is both sides are speaking on behalf of the solo stakers, you know, of decentralization.

这关乎单独质押者。

This is about the solo stakers.

双方都在说，嘿。

Both sides are saying, hey.

这对ETH的货币属性有好处。

This is good for the moneyness of ETH.

对吧？

Right?

所以支持推进的那一方说，嘿。

So the side that's saying, hey.

我们得推进这个，他们说，是的。

We gotta push this forward is saying, yeah.

我们这么做是因为ETH是货币。

We're doing this because ETH is money.

而反对的那一方说，不。

And the side that says, no.

不。

No.

不。

No.

不。

No.

别这么做，因为你会扼杀ETH作为货币的能力，因为你在调整货币政策，这样会失去信誉。

Don't do this because you'll you'll kill ETH's ability to be money because you're you're dialing with a monetary policy, and you lose credibility that way.

而且，在DeFi经济中，ETH就是货币。

And, also, ETH is money in the DeFi economy.

如果因为质押收益下降而搞垮了DeFi经济，那ETH的货币属性也会受损。

You nuke the DeFi economy somehow because of staking yields going down, then you also lose moneyness there.

对吧？

Right?

所以，我觉得，如果从宏观来看，双方其实都非常看重ETH作为货币资产。

So it is I guess, if you zoom out refreshing that both sides really care about ETH as a monetary asset.

所以，我觉得这是本期节目的一大收获。

So, I mean, that's a that's a win I take from this episode.

他们只是在具体做法上有分歧。

They're just divided in terms of how to actually do this.

那么，你看到社区里有哪些观点是他们喜欢的，或者有哪些我们还没提到的要点？

So what are some takes that you've seen that from around the community that they've enjoyed or or some points that we really didn't highlight yet?

加密推特和以太坊推特上的大多数观点其实都来自反对阵营，因为回应这个提案是他们的立场。

Most of the takes on crypto Twitter, Ethereum Twitter have really just been from the anti camp because it's it's their position to react to this proposal.

所以Stani说，以太坊不应该专注于游戏质押发行和削减质押奖励。

So Stani says, Ethereum should not focus on gaming staking issuance and cutting staking rewards.

那不是以太坊需要解决的问题。

That is not the problem Ethereum needs to solve.

优先事项是隐私、可扩展性和安全性。

Priorities are privacy, scalability, and security.

收益变得不可预测，对任何机构买家来说都是一个负面因素，使得以太坊借贷策略大多不可行，以太坊不应该因为其增长而受到惩罚。

Yield becomes unpredictable, a negative factor for any institutional buyer making ETH borrowing strategies mostly unviable, Ethereum should not be punished for its growth.

DC投资者说，发行量已经很低了。

DC investor says, issuance is already very low.

质押收益现在是一个关键驱动因素。

Staking yield is now a key driver.

可预测性很重要。

Predictability matters.

不应该把单独质押者排除在外。

Solo stakers should not be priced out.

专注于扩展。

Focus on scaling.

EtherFi的Mike说，这在各个层面都令人失望。

Mike from EtherFi says disappointing on every level.

EIP发布只提前了四十八小时通知。

EIP released with only forty eight hours notice.

以太坊上的每个建设者都反对这个。

Every builder on Ethereum opposes this.

这正好印证了以太坊批评者的观点，即网络是由一小群内部人士控制的。

This reinforces the Ethereum critic's position that the network network is run by a small group of insiders.

我觉得这对我来说很有意思。

I think that has been interesting to me.

就像，如果你构建一个ETH产品，一个像Aave或EtherFi这样的ETH存款产品，当然。

It's like, if you build a ETH product, an ETH deposit product like Aave or EtherFi Sure.

你不喜欢这个。

You don't like this.

没有一个在以太坊上做DeFi产品的人会喜欢这个，我觉得这是一个非常重要的信号。

No one no one who's building an ETH DeFi product likes this, and I think that is very important signal.

而且我觉得，以太坊社区在2024年的EF危机中一直在努力强调这一点，就是请听听那些在以太坊上建设、让以太坊和以太币变得有价值的人的声音，比如Mike、Stani和Glido。

And I think this is something that, like, the Ethereum community has been, like, trying to elevate in the 2024, like, EF crisis of, like, please listen to the builders building on Ethereum and making Ethereum valuable and Ether valuable, and that is Mike and Stani and Glido.

所以，这些人是有实际利益的，而有实际利益的人都在说不行。

And so, like, those people have these people have skin in the game, and the people with skin in the game are saying no.

而以太坊的研究人员，你可以说他们可能喜欢象牙塔里的技术完美，但他们的实际利益不如Aave的Stani或以太坊的Mike，因为他们是研究人员。

And the ETH researchers, you can argue, maybe they they love the ivory tower, like, technical perfection, but they have less skin in the game than Stani from Aave or Mike from Ethereum because they're researchers.

他们没有在这个生态系统的基础上建立业务。

They don't have businesses built on this ecosystem on top of this foundation.

那你对此怎么看？

So what's your take on this?

你觉得这是个好主意吗？

You you think it's a good idea?

你觉得这是个坏主意吗？

You think it's a bad idea?

如果由大卫来决定，你会投赞成票还是反对票？

If it was up to David, would you vote yay or nay?

我的意思就是，基本上我刚才说的那些。

I mean, like, usually exactly what I just said.

我没办法，真的没法凭良心对这个提案投赞成票，因为每一个DeFi开发者都在反对。

Like, I can't I'm I can't in good faith vote yay for this proposal when every single DeFi builder is saying no.

要知道，DeFi是ETH作为货币资产实现价值变现的方式。

Like, it's DeFi is how ETH became monetized as a monetary asset.

如果他们不满意，那我真的很难凭良心投赞成票。

And if they're not happy, then, like, it's it's hard to, in good conscience, vote yes for this.

从技术纯粹性的角度来看，我喜欢这个提案，在理想情况下。

I like this proposal from a technical purity standpoint, like in a vacuum.

当然。

Sure.

我觉得这个提案挺好的。

I think this is a good proposal.

如果没有DeFi和Tom Lee，以及我们所有的路径依赖，那还行，但我们确实有这些。

If we didn't have DeFi and Tom Lee and all of the path dependency that we have, but we do have that.

所以这个提案要是几年前提出来就好了，六年前、七年前、八年前，基本上越早越好。

So this would have been a great proposal to have introduced like years ago, six years ago, seven years ago, eight years ago when like, as soon as possible, basically.

也许这个提案的一个改进点是，不要直接从100%的ETH目标跳到50%。

Maybe maybe one improvement to the proposal is that let's not have this jump from 100% ETH targeting to 50% ETH targeting.

也许我们可以用很长的时间来实施，比如十年。

Maybe we can implement it over a very long time, like a decade.

所以，首先目标是100%，然后是99%，再是98%。

So, like, first, it targets a 100%, then it targets 99%, then it targets 98%.

这样花十年时间慢慢接近50%。

And that takes ten years to approach 50%.

这样就平滑过渡了。

So it smooths it out.

但我觉得即使是DeFi也不会喜欢这个。

But I don't think even DeFi would really like that at all.

所以我也同意你的观点，就是ETH，作为货币资产。

And so I also agree with your point It's like you it's it's ETH, the monetary asset.

我们需要压倒性的共识才能改变这一点。

We need overwhelming consensus in order to change this.

好的。

Alright.

所以你们知道，我喜欢这个提案在理想情况下，但现实中有太多包袱，所以不能同意。

And so you guys know proposal I like the proposal in a vacuum, but there's too much baggage to say yes.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得我的立场是，即使在理想情况下，我可能也不喜欢这个提案。

I I think that my position is I don't even like the proposal in a vacuum probably.

有意思。

Interesting.

就像，作为白皮书里的一个假设，挺有意思的，比如，如果我们这么做会怎样？

Like, it's interesting as like a a hypothetical in a white paper, like, what if we did this?

但我认为，要真正改变发行机制，你需要极其充分的理由，而我没有看到这些理由。

But I think you need overwhelmingly good reasons in order to actually change issuance, and I don't I don't see those reasons.

比如，收益似乎不值得付出代价，不像合并那样。

Like, the benefit does not seem worth the cost as opposed to the merge.

对吧？

Okay?

非常明显。

Incredibly obvious.

整个社区都同意，我们要从工作量证明发行转向权益证明发行，并相应调整发行政策。

Full community buy in that we were going to take proof of work issuance to proof of stake issuance and change issuance policy accordingly.

那是出于技术原因。

There was a technical reason for that.

有巨大的好处。

There was massive benefit.

当时有压倒性的共识。

There was overwhelming consensus.

这个提案连边都沾不上。

This doesn't even have anywhere near the mark.

好处有点虚无缥缈，模糊不清，而且是次要的，我们根本不清楚。

Like, the the benefits are sort of ethereal and vague and second order, and we don't, like, know.

但我还会想到另一个问题，就像奥卡姆剃刀测试一样，如果这个提案真的实施了，我会对ETH更乐观还是更悲观？

But the other thing I I go to is, like, just kind of an Occam test of just, would this if this got implemented, would this make me more bullish or more bearish on ETH?

结论是更悲观。

And the conclusion there is more bearish.

对，没错。

Like, yeah,

如果这个提案真的被推出来并实施了，我也不会更乐观。

I would not be more bullish if this proposal was actually pushed out and implemented.

就凭这一点，从我的角度看，这不太是个好主意。

And on that basis alone, it's it's kind of, it's not a good idea from my perspective.

那么，还有一个问题，就是这件事最终能推进并真正落实的可能性有多大。

Now, yeah, there's another question, which is what's the probable ability that this goes forward and actually gets pushed, It gets moved through.

我觉得这个可能性，基本上已经接近零了。

And I think that probability is, like, quickly approaching 0%.

所以我觉得，我们可能连百分之五都不到，就是，我觉得这事儿成不了。

So I think we're, like, under five per like, we're just I don't think this is going anywhere.

我觉得

I don't think

这事儿成不了。

this is going anywhere.

尤其是考虑到它得到的反响。

Particularly given the reception that it received.

如果反响完全不同，如果大家情绪非常积极，那也许还有机会。

If it had a completely different reception, if there's overwhelming positive sentiment, then maybe it would have a shot.

但现在它已经没戏了，我预测不会有任何发行量的变化。

But it is dead in the water at this point, and I I predict there will be no issuance changes.

所以在某种程度上，有些人会说，看看以太坊，它又在改变发行政策了。

So at some level, some of people saying, look over Ethereum, it's just like, it's changing issuance policy again.

看吧，它并不是去中心化的。

See, it's not decentralized.

它被控制了。

It's captured.

所有这些说法。

All these things.

不。

No.

这实际上就是去中心化的样子。

This is what decentralization actually looks like.

这就是去中心化在进行的混乱过程。

This is the messy process of decentralization taking place.

有一个提案被提出来，所有利益相关者、参与者、投资者、研究人员和应用开发者都参与讨论，但它还没有达到门槛。

There's a proposal, it's pushed out there, the rough consensus of all of the stakeholders and participants and investors and researchers and app builders weigh in on it, and it hasn't reached the threshold.

所以这事就没成，被否决了，这其实挺健康的。

And so it doesn't happen, it gets shot down, and that's all healthy.

我们刚就这事聊了很久，但我觉得这不会有什么结果。

So we just had a long conversation about it, but like, I don't think it's going anywhere.

而且，你知道，如果这事让你看空，你也不用担心，因为我觉得这根本不会发生。

And, you know, if you if this would make you bearish, you don't have to worry about that because I don't it's just not gonna happen.

我同意。

I would agree.

对。

Yeah.

就像我说的，对以太坊基金会不满是一回事，因为它不跟应用开发者和DeFi生态沟通。

Like I said, it's one thing to be frustrated about the EF for not being communicative to its app builders and its DeFi ecosystem.

但推动一个所有DeFi开发者都说会损害他们业务的提案，那是另一回事。

It's another thing to push a proposal where the DeFi builders are all saying, this harms my business.

对。

Yeah.

而且我的业务就是让以太坊更有价值，从中赚钱。

And also my business is in the business of monetizing Ethan making making it more valuable.

所以搞什么鬼。

So WTF.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

不过你会就这个举办一些辩论吗？

Are you gonna host some debates on this though?

我本来想举办一场辩论的。

I was thinking about hosting a debate.

但我想我只会和一些DeFi应用开发者聊聊他们的看法。

But instead I think I'm just going to talk to some of the DeFi app builders about their their opinions.

因为我可以，其实很久以前我和Casper还有Onsgar做过一期节目。

Because I can we I did I did this episode actually with Casper and Onsgar forever ago.

其实，这不算什么新提案。

Like, this isn't really a new proposal.

这个提案到现在差不多有两年了。

This is this proposal is, like, two years old now.

它当时是某种

It was some sort of

定向提案。

targeting proposal.

而且是在一些假设没有成立的时候提出的。

And particularly at a time where some assumptions didn't play out.

还记得吗？

Remember?

当时人们觉得Lido会主导一切，把所有质押都拿走。

Like, people were thinking that lido would sort of dominate everything and just, like, get all of the steak.

我觉得人们假设的一些事情并没有完全实现。

And like, I think some of the things that people assume just like haven't played out fully.

不过是的，我们之前已经讨论过这个话题了，对吧？

But yeah, we we have covered this train before, haven't we?

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

所以我已经从技术上讲完了支持的那一面。

And so so I've already technically done the the pro side of it.

现在我要讲反对的那一面。

And so now I'm I'm gonna do the anti side of it.

而且我能够很好地扮演支持方的角色，抛出一些有趣的论点，看看他们怎么应对。

And like, I can embody the pro argument well enough where like, I can throw my interesting, like angles at them, and they can see what I can see what they do with it.

好了，我们继续讲Coldcard漏洞事件。

Alright, let's move on to the Coldcard exploit.

有个叫乔纳森·古德曼的人发推说，7月29日，我的账户里有160万美元的比特币在Coldcard钱包被黑时被转走了。

So this is an individual named Jonathan Goodman who tweeted out, $1,600,000 in Bitcoin was drained from my account on July 29 in the Coldcard wallet hack.

我的比特币是冷存储的。

My Bitcoin was in cold storage.

我的密钥放在一个从未联网的保险箱里的Coldcard设备上。

My keys were on a Coldcard device kept in a safety deposit box that had never been connected to the Internet.

这部分有点技术性，事情是这样的。

This part's nerdy, here's what happened.

黑客在硬件钱包代码中用于生成助记词的部分发现了一个漏洞。

Hackers discovered a vulnerability in the part of the hardware wallet code used to create seed phrases.

这让他们能够利用人工智能暴力破解助记词。

This allowed them to use AI to brute force guessing seed phrases.

我当时在小屋，今天听说了这个黑客事件。

I I was at our cottage and heard about the hack today.

我心想，这不可能影响到我。

No way this affects me, I thought.

我登录了Wasabi，那个让我在线查看比特币钱包的软件。

I logged on to Wasabi, the software that lets me view my Bitcoin wallets online.

我立刻看到了一排排红色的交易记录，都是提款，我知道从7月9日晚上9点36分到9点43分，我所有的钱包都被清空了。

Right away, I saw lines of red transactions, withdrawals, and I knew from 09:36 to 09:43PM on July 9, every wallet I ever had had been emptied.

18.2个比特币没了，价值超过160万加元。

18.2 coin gone over $1,600,000 Canadian.

也许最难受的是，我明明做对了一切。

Perhaps the hardest part about this is that I did everything right.

我从未向任何人透露过我的助记词。

I never shared my seed phrase with anyone.

我的设备从未接触过互联网。

My devices never touched the Internet.

所有东西都放在多个保险箱和银行保险柜里。

Everything was kept in multiple safes and safety deposit boxes.

但这一切都没用。

None of it mattered.

哦，太惨了。

Oh, brutal.

确实太惨了。

Absolutely brutal.

所以，对于不熟悉的人来说，Coldcard有点像Ledger钱包或者Trezor，这些更流行的设备，我觉得主要是为比特币社区优化的。

So the Coldcard for those not familiar with it is sort of like a leisure ledger wallet or a treasure, some more popular devices, I think optimized really for the Bitcoin community.

所以它的体积更小，但不支持其他币种。

So it's a smaller wallet in terms of footprint, but didn't support other coins.

它更偏向比特币纯粹主义者的风格。

It was more the Bitcoin purist approach to it.

当然，同样的故事也发生在，我不知道，可能成千上万的其他案例中。

And, of course, this same story played out in, I don't know, maybe 1000s of other cases.

总共有1.3亿美元比特币从离线硬件钱包中被盗。

$130,000,000 total in Bitcoin being exploited from offline hardware wallets.

其中一些，你知道，都是比较小的持有者。

And some of these, you know, are pretty like, smaller holders.

当然，这些都是散户投资者，他们做了比特币爱好者应该做的事，去银行化，也就是，不是你的钥匙，就不是你的加密货币。

Of course, these are retail investors, and they're doing the thing that Bitcoiners are supposed to do, going bankless, can do, which is like, not your keys, not your crypto.

好的。

Okay.

不是我的钥匙，不是我的加密货币。

Not not my keys, not my crypto.

我会保管一些钥匙。

I will have custody of some keys.

那是他们决定要做的。

That's what they decide to do.

他们用了硬件钱包，结果还是被掏空了。

And they use a hardware wallet, and still it gets drained.

也许我们来具体聊聊这里到底出了什么问题。

May maybe let's talk about what went wrong here specifically.

原帖提到，问题出在生成助记词时使用的随机性上。

So the original poster said something to do with the way randomness that the seed phrase was generated.

Coldcard 到底哪里出了问题？

What went wrong in the Coldcard?

对。

Yeah.

所以，对于助记词来说，助记词在理论上有很大的随机性，也就是说，有非常多的可能组合，即使使用人工智能，也无法全部尝试，因为创建助记词或私钥的可能方式比宇宙中的原子还要多。

So with a with a with a seed phrase, a seed phrase has theoretical randomness as in, like, there are so many different possible combinations that even with AI, there's no way to to try all of them because there's more possible ways to create a seed phrase or a private key than there are, like, atoms in the universe.

这就是比特币的理论安全性。

Like, that's a theoretical security Bitcoin.

没错。

Right.

显然，Coldcard生成助记词的方式在随机性上并不完美，也就是说，它的随机数生成存在某种缺陷或漏洞，使得人工智能能够检测到那种模式，从而减少需要处理的随机性范围。

Apparently, the way that Coldcard was generating seed phrases was imperfect in its randomness, as in it had, like, a a a kink or a flaw in its randomness generation that allowed for AI to, like, detect that pattern and reduce the scope of how much randomness it would need to do.

这其实让我想起，我以前读过一本关于密码学的书。

And this is actually just like I once upon a time read a book on ciphers.

你可能会喜欢。

You would actually like it.

我应该把那本书推荐给你。

I should send it to you.

而且，破解密码的首要方法就是随机数生成不够完美、不够精确，存在缺陷，然后被某种模式分析利用。

And like, the number one way to break a cipher is that there is an imperfect, imprecise way of generating randomness, and there's like a a flaw, and that gets exploited by some some pattern analysis.

就像某种弱熵。

Like some kind of weak entropy.

所以无论何时生成某种私钥，都必须有真正的随机性。

So whenever you're generating a private key of some form, you have to have actual true randomness.

完美的随机性。

Perfect randomness.

对。

Yeah.

有很多方法可以实现这一点。

There are many ways to do this.

这并不是什么未知的事情。

It's not like an unknown thing.

只是显然Coldcard钱包。

It was just apparently the Coldcard wallet.

它有一个随机数生成器，本来要好得多，但实际上并没有被启用。

It had a a random number generator that was, like, much better, but it was not actually switched on.

所以它反而使用了这种弱得多的随机性。

So it was using this much weaker form of randomness instead.

他们不知道这一点。

They didn't know this.

它没有被……我不知道，就是没被启用。

They it wasn't in I don't know, wasn't switched on.

他们用的是较弱的方法，而不是

They were using the weaker method rather

更强的那个

than stronger

他们其实有的那个。

that they actually had.

所以这意味着，所有在那个时期，比如2021年及以后，使用Coldcard钱包的人，实际上生成的私钥都可能被某个攻击者猜出来，那种攻击者并不是无法进行暴力破解的。

And so that means everyone who used a cold card cold card wallet from this time period from like, you know, 2021 and beyond, actually generated private keys that could be guessed by some attacker, some sort of that was not impervious to a brute force attack.

这就是现在正在发生的事情。

And that's what's happening right now.

而且这种攻击已经一波接一波了，黑客们专门找Coldcard钱包，锁定目标后，用AI来猜助记词。

And there have been waves of these attacks, right, where, you know, hackers are just looking for Coldcard wallets, finding that profile, and then guessing at the seed phrase using AI to do that.

一旦猜中了，就把钱包里的钱全转走。

And then once they do, they drain the wallet.

太狠了。

Brutal.

我们其实不知道黑客是谁。

Is this We don't really know who the hackers are.

显然，我觉得大家第一反应都会想到朝鲜。

Like, obviously, I think everyone's first reaction is North Korea.

但我们并没有证据表明是朝鲜干的。

We don't really have any evidence that it's North Korea.

到这个时候，任何人都可能下手，尤其是这件事被公开之后，谁想试都能去试，然后就真的去做了。

It could be anyone at this point, especially after this gets publicized, then anyone who wants to go try to do this can, like, then go do this.

我觉得我们应该用其他几件事来结束这个话题。

I think we should tie this off with a few other things.

一个是这个问题在Trezor和Ledger钱包以及更流行的钱包中不存在。

One is this problem does not exist in the Trezor ledger wallets and the more popular wallets.

他们后来已经发布并强调了他们的随机数是如何生成的，所以这不是其他一些硬件钱包中存在的缺陷。

They have since, you know, released and emphasized how their randomness is actually generated, so it's not a flaw that happens in some of these other hardware wallets.

所以如果你用这些钱包，应该是安全的。

So should be, like, safe if if you're using one of those.

我想另一件事是，这是否对自我质押和自我托管提出了一个根本性的问题，抱歉。

I guess the other thing, though, is does this pose an existential question as to, like, self staking and self custody or sorry.

不是自我质押。

Not self staking.

是自我托管，总的来说。

Self custody in general.

所以如果你仍然信任硬件钱包制造商来处理这类事情，比如正确生成私钥，并正确执行操作。

So if, like, you're still trusting the hardware wallet manufacturer with this type of thing to, like, generate private keys correctly, and to do things correctly.

我觉得这算是一个警钟，就算你在自我保管方面做得滴水不漏，还是可能受到这种攻击。

Like, I guess it's a wake up call that you can do everything right from a self custody perspective, and still be vulnerable to this.

有人说这会让大家都把比特币转到ETF或者交易所，因为在那里这类攻击就不会发生。

Some people are saying this will cause everyone to move their Bitcoin to ETFs or to put it on exchanges where these sorts of attacks aren't possible.

大卫，你觉得这是自我保管的终结吗？

Do you think this is the end of self custody, David?

你觉得是不是太难了？

Do you think it's just, like too hard?

问题太多了。

There's too many problems with it.

以后大家都不愿意自己保管，全都交给托管机构。

And people choose not to do this moving forward, and it'll all go into custodial providers.

这周我和一个朋友吃午饭，她告诉我她在某家公司工作，有人给她介绍了一个联系人，让她去聊聊。

I was getting lunch with a friend this week, and she told me that she was working at a company and somebody connected her with a contact that they wanted her to talk to.

他们开了几次会，建立了信任，然后让她下载了Obsidian，就是你我都在用的那个软件。

And they took a few meetings and built some trust, got them to download Obsidian, which is a a thing that you use and I use.

但那个Obsidian是被人动过手脚的版本。

But it was a it was a borked version of Obsidian.

所以三次会议之后，她下载了它，结果她浏览器扩展里的钱全被偷了。

So after three meetings, she downloaded it, and it stole all of her money in her in her browser extension.

你说真的？

Are you serious?

对。

Yeah.

我提这个的原因是，他们用AI在通话中伪装自己，然后实施这个攻击。

And the reason why I bring this up is because they were using AI to fake themselves on the call and and to to run this exploit.

所以，这里的共同点就是AI。

And so, like, the common denominator here is AI.

AI已经成了大头，而且那不是什么数学上的小错误。

AI has been just, the big and and that wasn't imperfect math.

那是社会工程学攻击，但确实是AI辅助的。

That was social engineering, nonetheless AI assisted.

而且，你知道，现在大家不敢把钱放在DeFi里，就是因为AI。

And, you know, AI is the reason why people are scared to have their money in DeFi at the moment.

AI正在动摇自我保管的根基。

Like, AI is shaking the foundations of self custody.

这确实让人害怕。

And that that's scary.

而且，因为AI，现在选择自我保管和去银行化的人可能是2021、2022年以来最少的。

And like, there's probably the the fewest self custody and the fewest bankless people since 2021, 2022 because of AI.

而且，用AI恶意找漏洞似乎比用AI防御性地修补漏洞要容易得多。

And it's there's seemingly more holes to find using AI maliciously than it is easier to, like, patch them using AI to to be defensive.

所以，是的，老兄。

And so, like, yeah, dude.

这真是自我保管史上最黑暗的日子。

It's like the darkest days for self custody ever.

不管你怎么想保护自己，AI总能找到办法，不管是利用完美的随机性，还是你的朋友不小心把你连到了错误的Telegram账号，因为名字看起来有点像，他们没仔细检查。

Like, no no no matter how you want to secure yourself, like, AI can find a way there, whether it's, like, exploiting perfect randomness or your friends accidentally connect you to the wrong Telegram account because, like, the name looks kinda similar and they were they weren't checking.

所以现在，攻击能力已经超过了防御能力，而且还在不断发现漏洞。

So right now, the the the attack abilities are exceeding the defense abilities right now and just finding vulnerabilities.

所以，

So

对。

Yeah.

不管这种情况要持续多久才能恢复，因为一旦失去所有钱，那真是直击心灵深处。

Whether that continues long time to recover from that because that is they like, losing all of your money strikes straight into the heart of your emotions.

而且一旦发生这种事，就没人愿意再去搞自我托管了。

And, like, once it does that, then, like, no one want no one wants to go doing self custody.

就像那个家伙，他做对了所有事情，结果还是损失了160万美元。

And, like, it's like this guy, the this guy that lost $1,600,000 of his of it after doing everything right.

你觉得他还会再去碰自我托管吗？

Like, do you ever going to do self custody ever again?

对。

Yeah.

对。

Right.

而且，我觉得，从某个角度看，如果Coldcard当初做对了而不是做错了，这件事完全可以避免。

And, like, I guess, from one perspective, this could totally have been avoided if Coldcard did things the right way instead of doing it the wrong way.

但在另一个层面上，一个普通人

But at another level, like, what is an individual's

应该怎么做呢？

supposed to do?

比如，我是不是得仔细分析一下我买的硬件钱包的随机数是怎么生成的，才能确保它真的安全可靠？

Like, am I am I supposed to, like, analyze exactly how the randomness was like, you know, for the hardware wallet that I purchased, how that was generated, in order to feel safe that it's like actually working?

这对普通人来说根本不可行。

Like, that's just not feasible for the average person.

所以，是的，这确实是个大坑。

So, yeah, it's it's definitely a big pothole here.

希望情况能有所好转。

And hopefully hopefully, things turn around a little bit.

但就目前而言，如果你在用Coldcard，那当然，给你的建议就是赶紧离开这个钱包。

But for now, do not if you are using Coldcard, of course, the the message is get off of that wallet.

可以换个

Could do something

别的。

else.

你的资产换个地方放。

Your assets do something else.

希望攻击能平息下来，大家也能顺利转移。

And we'll we'll hopefully, the attacks subside and people are able to migrate.

好，我们继续。

Alright, let's move on.

我们还要聊几件事。

We're gonna talk about a few more things.

我们得聊聊Clarity Act，在Polymarket上看起来不太乐观，存活概率只有十几%。

We got to talk about Clarity Act not looking good on a lifeline in the teens probability on Polymarket.

我们要聊聊这个。

We're gonna talk about that.

我们要聊聊Uniswap的流动性池。

We're gonna talk about Uniswap pools.

Pools.trade，是的。

Pools.trade is yes.

Pools.trade是他们的新产品，我要告诉Ryan关于Uniswap新代币发布平台他需要知道的一切。

Pools.trade is their new product or I'm gonna tell Ryan exactly what he needs to know about Uniswap's new token launch pad.

然后还有，Cloudflare。

And then also, Cloudflare.

Bankless的听众如果听过我们和Matthew Prince的那期节目，就会知道，Cloudflare正在为任何想要的人推出加密钱包。

Bankless listeners know this if they listen to the our episode with Matthew Prince, but Cloudflare is introducing crypto wallets for anyone who wants it.

他们在做什么？

What are they doing?

他们在做什么？

What are they doing?

我们找到了答案。

We got the answers.

我们会聊所有这些，还有更多。

We're gonna talk about all that and more.

但首先，我们要聊聊一些很棒的赞助商，是他们让这个节目得以继续。

But first, we're gonna talk about some of these fantastic sponsors that make the show possible.

市场不是单一资产在动。

Markets don't move one asset at a time.

今天是比特币，明天是英伟达，然后是黄金，接着是标普500。

One day, it's Bitcoin, the next, Nvidia, then gold, and then the S and P.

但大多数交易者还是在不同的平台、不同的账户、不同的资金池里管理自己的投资组合。

But most traders are still managing their portfolio across different platforms, different accounts, and different pools of capital.

BITKEY刚刚改变了这一点。

BITKEY just changed that.

新的股票2.0产品让你可以直接用USDT交易代币化股票，而且就在你平时用来做加密交易的同一个应用里。

New stocks two point o product lets you trade tokenized equities directly with USDT, all inside the same app you already use for crypto.

这不仅仅是另一个代币化股票产品。

This is not just another tokenized stock product.

Stocks 2.0 围绕更深的流动性、更快的执行速度和市场上最低的费用设计，仅为0.04%，并提供与标的股票1:1的经济敞口。

Stocks two point o is designed around deeper liquidity, faster execution, and the lowest fees on the market at just point zero four percent and one to one economic exposure to the underlying stock.

股息、股票分割和其他公司行为会自动反映，帮助你的持仓与你真正想要敞口的资产保持一致。

Dividends, stock splits, and other corporate actions are reflected automatically, helping your position stay aligned with the asset you actually want exposure to.

一个平台，一个账户，多个市场，加密货币、股票、大宗商品等等，都可以用USDT访问。

One platform, one account, multiple markets, crypto equities, commodities, and more, all accessible with USDT.

BITKEY。

BITKEY.

更聪明地交易。

Trade smarter.

今天就通过节目说明中的链接开始交易。

Start trading today through the link in the show notes.

这不是投资建议。

This is not investment advice.

有个好消息。

Some exciting news.

我们正在推出一个新播客，帮助大家理解加密货币周期，以及如何应对。

We are launching a new podcast to help people figure out the crypto cycle, how to navigate it.

我认识的最好的加密货币周期投资者，他叫迈克尔·纳托。

The best crypto cycle investor I know, his name is Michael Nato.

他运营着DeFi报告。

He runs the DeFi report.

就是这个人，在10:10价格下跌之前给我发了卖出提醒。

This is the guy that sent me a sell alert before the 10:10 price drop happened.

他的周期分析一直非常准确。

His cycle analysis has been absolutely on point.

我关注他好几年了。

I've been following him for years.

今年，我们开始每周录制播客节目。

And this year, we started recording weekly podcast episodes.

每一集我们都会聊他的投资组合、他持有什么、市场结构、入场目标、比特币和以太坊的公允价值，以及我们现在处于周期的哪个阶段。

Each one, we get into his portfolio, what he's holding, the market structure, entry targets, fair market value of Bitcoin and Ether, and where we are in the cycle.

每周三都会发布新的一集。

There's new episodes that are released every Wednesday.

每集三十分钟。

They're thirty minutes.

时间不长。

They're short.

内容紧凑。

They're punchy.

我觉得这轮加密货币周期比大多数周期都更难把握，所以让我们一起应对吧。

I think this crypto cycle is harder to navigate than most, so let's do it together.

去订阅这个播客吧。

Go subscribe to this podcast.

无论你在哪里收听播客，YouTube、Apple、Spotify，都可以搜索“DeFi报告”，或者查看节目说明里的链接。

Search the DeFi report wherever you get your podcasts, YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or find a link in the show notes.

现在有一集新的节目在等着你。

There's a new episode waiting for you now.

Uniswap昨天为pools.trade推出了一个24小时的倒计时。

Uniswap introduced a twenty four hour countdown yesterday for pools.trade.

他们花了大概27个小时，一开始有点波折，但最终推出了pools.trade，这是Uniswap自己的原生代币发行平台。

It took him like twenty seven hours, they had a little bit of a shaky start, but they introduced pools that trade, which is Uniswap's own native token launchpad.

就像pump.fun一样，pump.fun就是为那些想做pump.fun的人准备的。

Like like pump fun is pump fun for what you just want is doing pump fun now.

对。

Yeah.

而且我承认以太坊上有很多代币发行平台。

And I granted there are so many token launch pads on Ethereum.

这并不新鲜，但新鲜的是Uniswap正在垂直化，深入到实际的代币创建机制。

This is not a new thing, but it is new that Uniswap is going verticalizing and going down to the actual token creation mechanism.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以他们有几种方式来发行代币，几种不同的机制。

And so they have a couple ways to launch a token, a couple of different mechanisms.

两种方式最终都会进入一个Uniswap v4池，固定供应量为10亿个代币。

Both end up in a Uniswap v four pool with a fixed 1,000,000,000 supply of tokens.

所以有一种是众筹发行代币。

So there's the crowd launch token.

这是一种四小时的TWAP拍卖，目的是让捆绑变得困难，因为模因币代币发行平台的一个大问题是，有人会捆绑一堆钱包，在开盘时拥有大约30%的供应量。

So that's a four hour t wap auction to help make bun like, just bundle resistant because, like, a big problem in the meme coin token launchpad world is that, like, one person will bundle up a bunch of wallets and own, like, 30% of the supply at the top on your head.

所以这在一定程度上解决了这个问题，然后它会在1万美元的完全稀释估值时毕业，或者如果这个1万美元的市值没有达到，就会退款给所有人。

So that kinda fixes that, and then it graduates at a $10,000 fully diluted valuation, or it refunds everyone if that's the $10,000 market cap doesn't get launched.

或者有即时发行，就像没有规则，狂野西部，风险自担。

Or there's instant launch, which is just like, no rules, wild west, like, buy at your own risk.

它立即上线，经典的联合曲线风格。

It's live immediately classic bonding curve style.

所以，是的，Uniswap已经发布了一个代币发行平台。

And so, yeah, Uniswap has released a a token launch pad.

看起来跟市面上其他代币发行平台差不多，但Uniswap推出这个还是挺让人兴奋的。

Looks pretty similar to all the other kinda like token launch pads out there, but it is kind of exciting that Uniswap is launching it.

我觉得有意思的一点是，这个平台收的手续费会用来买回代币本身。

And so there is a I think one of the interesting things is that the the fees collected by this go back into buying the token itself.

而且它宣传说交易量更大。

And so there's and there's it's, like, touted as, like, more volume.

这对代币价格更有利，而不是从流动性池里抽走。

It's even more beneficial for the price of the token as opposed to that coming out of the pool of the liquidity pool.

它会回到Uniswap池和代币本身。

It goes back into the Uniswap pool in the token itself.

所以这对用户来说是个激励。

And so it was an incentive for people to use it.

你对此有什么反应？

What's your reaction?

你怎么看？

What do you think?

就像Robinhood一样，Beam Coins让他们意识到了这种可能性。

Just like Robinhood, Beam Coins kind of woke them up to this possibility.

我的意思是，那是一种反应。

I mean, that that's one reaction.

另一种反应就是，Uniswap似乎又在更努力地推新东西了，我在想这是为什么。

The other reaction is just it does seem like Uniswap is shipping, like, harder again, and I'm wondering kind of why.

我知道他们一直在幕后做很多事情，但感觉像是监管上的阴霾可能已经散去，他们又开始尝试新产品和实验了。

I mean, I know they were always shipping, doing a lot in the background, but it feels like some regulatory malaise has maybe lifted, and they are getting back to trying new products and experiments again.

这就是你想说的吗？

That that Is that what you're saying?

最近Uniswap那边感觉确实不一样了。

It kinda feels different in Uniswap land these days.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

因为昨晚我和一些加密货币的朋友一起玩。

Because I was talking to some I was hanging out with some crypto friends last night.

然后我们都说了同样的话，就是海登过去两个月的推文，感觉更像是对Uniswap的创始人模式，而且他们发布了更多东西。

And like, we all said the same thing is like, Hayden's tweets for the last two months, feel more like founder Modi, about Uniswap, and they're, like, shipping more things.

对。

Yeah.

我同意。

I I would agree.

我觉得也许在某个时候，就像你的资金库的安全垫用完了，你意识到你需要产生正面的经济效益，而Uniswap作为一个组织，过去一直是个相当大的组织。

I I think maybe at some point, just like the the safety nest of your treasury kind of, like, runs out and you realize that you need to, like, generate positive economics and, like, Uniswap as an org has been a pretty big organization in the past.

而且，再次说到你提到的Robinhood的推出，如果你看Robinhood的指标，Uniswap在DEX交易量中的主导地位是巨大的。

And, again, also to your point with the launch of Robinhood, if you go to the Robinhood metrics, like, Uniswap dominance in DEX volume is massive.

所以Robinhood链上排名第一的DEX是Uniswap v3。

So the number one DEX on Uniswap is on Robinhood chain is Uniswap v three.

排名第二的DEX是Uniswap v2，排名第三的是Uniswap v4，这三者合计占据了Robinhood链上DEX交易量的99%。

The number two DEX is Uniswap v two, and the number three DEX is Uniswap v four, and that's to combined 99% of DEX volume on Robinhood Chain.

哇。

Wow.

这对他们来说是个大胜利。

That's a big win for them.

在Robinhood链上占据主导地位，而且这确实会进入Uni代币的费用销毁机制。

Dominating on Robinhood Chain, and that actually does go into the Uni token fee burn.

所以随着Uniswap在Robinhood链上的推出和成功，协议回购并销毁的Uni数量因为Robinhood链而翻倍了，尤其是因为meme币。

And so with the launch and success of Uniswap on Robinhood Chain, the amount of Uni being bought back and burned by the protocol has doubled because of Robinhood Chain, particularly because of meme coins.

因为Robinhood上的meme币活动占了整个加密市场meme币活动的50%，而所有这些交易量都在Uniswap上。

And so because meme coin activity on Robinhood is is 50 of all meme coin activity in crypto as a total, and all that volume is on Uniswap.

所以Uniswap销毁Uni代币的速度是其他所有链加起来的两倍。

And so Uniswap is burning Uni tokens twice as fast versus, like, all the other chains combined.

所以你可以看到，Uniswap在这里看到了价值，比如收入在增加。

And so you can see, like, oh, Uniswap sees value here, like, revenues coming in.

这很有效。

This is working.