2026年顶级CEO们。此外，康宁的温德尔·韦尔斯探讨人工智能与玻璃技术。

你好，欢迎收听《巴伦周刊·街景》播客。

Hello, and welcome to the Barron's Streetwise podcast.

我是杰克·豪。

I'm Jack Howe.

今天我们要聊聊顶级首席执行官们最关注的问题。

Today, we're gonna be talking about the top CEOs issue.

我会和我的同事安德鲁·巴里聊聊名单上的一些人物。

I'm gonna be speaking with my colleague, Andrew Bary, about some of the names that turned up on the list.

稍后我们还会听到康宁公司的韦克斯 CEO 的分享。

We'll hear later from one of our CEOs, Weeks at Corning.

接下来就进入正题。

That's next.

安德鲁·巴里，真是说曹操曹操就到。

Andrew Bary, as I live and breathe.

老朋友，最近怎么样？

How are you, my friend?

见到你真好。

Good to see you.

能和你一起在这儿，我很高兴，杰克。

Good to be here with you, Jack.

准备聊 CEOs 了吗？

Ready to talk CEOs?

当然。

Yep.

今天我们请来了《巴伦周刊》的明星分析师安德鲁·巴里，带我们逐个看看这份名单。

We have Barron's all star, Andrew Bary, to help run us down the list.

我们每年都会做这个。

We've got, we do this each year.

今年我们挑出了25位值得关注的CEO。

We have 25 names that we have, called out.

首先，我们从筛选标准说起。

We start with the screening process.

我们寻找运营卓越的迹象，然后大家聚在一起提名、讨论，等等。

We look for signs of operational excellence, and then we get together in a in a group, and we have nominations and debate and so forth.

你该怎么形容这个过程呢？

How would you describe the process?

主要是很融洽吧？

Collegial, mostly?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得挺融洽的。

I would say collegial.

虽然有些明显的分歧，但总的来说，我觉得我们还是选出了一份不错的名单。

There there were some notable disagreements, but, I think, we we came up, I think, overall with a good list.

我们最终还是过去了。

We got past it.

最后大家基本都保持了友好的关系。

We came out mostly on friendly terms at the end.

所以我们不会一一讲完这25位。

So we're not gonna run through all 25 of them.

想看完整的，可以去读《巴伦周刊》最新一期。

For that, people can, see the, the latest issue at Barron's.

咱们每人挑几个说说吧。

Let's do let's do a few apiece.

这些个人专访，我们各自负责了一部分。

We each of each of us handled some of these individual write ups.

稍后在这期节目中，我们会听到康宁公司的CEO温德尔·韦克斯的分享。

We're gonna hear from one of these CEOs, Wendell Weeks at Corning later in this episode.

你先说说，你写的那几个里面，哪个是今年《巴伦周刊》评选出的顶级CEO？

Start us off with give me a CEO that's on the list that you wrote about that, is is one of the Barron's top CEOs this year.

我觉得全球最无可争议的顶级CEO之一就是摩根大通的杰米·戴蒙，他执掌这家银行已经快二十年了。

Well, I think one of the unquestioned top CEOs in the world is Jamie Dimon, the CEO of JPMorgan Chase, and he's been at it now for about twenty years.

他今年七十岁了，但还想再继续领导银行几年。

He's 70 now, wants to continue to lead the bank for the next couple years or so.

我觉得他身上集中了人们对一位首席执行官所有的期待。

And I think he embodies pretty much everything you'd like to see in a CEO.

他既专注又敏锐，精通细节，也懂大局，同时还是一位真正的行业领袖和代言人。

I mean, committed, sharp, knows the nitty gritty, but also the big picture, and he's also really an an industry statesman and spokesman.

如果他不是七十岁了，我猜他完全可能去从政。

And, I think, you know, if he weren't 70, I think he might have a political career.

过去五到十年，甚至二十年，摩根大通的股价表现一直是各大银行里最出色的之一。

I mean, JPMorgan's had some of the best, stock market performance among the major banks in the last, you know, five, ten, twenty years.

他不仅为客户创造了价值，更重要的是，也为投资者带来了回报。

So, I mean, he's delivered for, I think, customers and and also importantly for investors.

过去三年，这只股票的总回报超过了百分之百五十。

Three years, I show a total return for the stock of, over a 150.

这成绩已经很不错了。

Not too bad.

这几乎是标普500指数的两倍。

That's, that's almost double the S and P 500.

对于一家银行来说，这样的表现已经没得说了。

For a bank, you can't complain about that.

据我了解，他一直在大量招聘数据科学家，把人工智能慢慢融入到业务里。

I understand that, you know, from what I've read, he's hiring he has been hiring loads of data scientists and just kind of weaving AI.

我们待会儿肯定会聊很多关于AI的话题，他正把AI全面渗透进银行的各项运营，真正推动业务增长。

We're gonna we're gonna talk tons about AI, I'm sure, weaving it all through the bank's operations and and, you know, really powering growth.

他在这一块一直走在前面。

And he's really been out in front of this.

资本市场最近回暖了，他也抓住了其中很大一块收益。

There's been a capital markets recovery, and he's capturing a good portion of the economics there.

明白了。

Okay.

我来说一个。

I'll do one now.

你肯定猜得到，英伟达的黄仁勋肯定在我们名单上，但我更想提另一个人——博通的郝成。

I I I don't think it'll be any surprise that Jensen Huang from NVIDIA is on our list, but let me highlight instead another name, and that's Hak Tan from Broadcom.

到目前为止，博通已经是标普500中最大的公司之一了。

Broadcom by now is one of the largest companies in the S And P 500.

大家应该都知道这个名字。

People should know this name.

我觉得他得到的关注，可能还没办法跟黄仁勋相比。

I'm not sure that he gets quite as much attention as as Jensen Huang.

说白了，这家公司一直都是他在掌管。

Basically, I would say he has run this company.

他几十年来一直带着这家公司往前走。

He run it for decades.

早年的时候，它看起来就像一家披着公司外衣的私募股权芯片企业。

Early on, it looked like kind of a private equity chip business disguised as a corporation.

他收购了很多利润率不错的中小公司，砍掉成本、提高价格、扩大业务，即便在AI热潮之前，就已经为股东赚了大钱。

He bought lots of smaller companies with good product margins, stripped out costs, raised prices, grew the businesses, made great money for shareholders even before the AI boom.

现在值得注意的是，他推出了一款叫ASIC的应用专用集成电路。

What's noteworthy now is he has this this product called ASICS, application specific integrated circuits.

以前，这种芯片算是比较小众的产品。

And previously, this was kind of like a, like a niche chip.

如果你主要从事视频处理、加密货币挖矿，或者干某一种特定的工作，就可以定制这种芯片来专门完成你的任务。

If you were somebody who you did a lot of video processing, you did crypto mining, you did one specific thing, then you could custom design these chips to do your thing.

这样能让你在芯片采购上更划算。

And that was a way to get better economics on your chip purchases.

而在人工智能时代，这简直太合适了，因为现在有这么多超大规模公司。

Well, that's perfect in the world of AI where you have hyperscale companies.

很多公司会去找英伟达买AI芯片，但有些公司其实不需要那种通用的现货芯片。

Many of these companies are gonna go to NVIDIA for the AI chips, but some of them don't need these general purpose off the shelf chips.

他们想要的是专门为自己的业务量身打造的芯片。

Some of them wanted to design very specific chips for just what they do.

他们可以直接找博通来做。

They can go to Broadcom for that.

这样成本更低，效益更好。

They can get better economics on it.

如果你看股价回报，我们评选CEO榜单并不是基于过去二十年的股价表现。

And if you look at the stock returns, we don't base the CEO's list on what has happened to the stock over the past twenty years.

我们关注的是更近一段时间的情况。

We're looking more recently than that.

不过我得提一下，在黄仁勋的带领下，英伟达过去二十年涨了68000%。

However, I'll just note that NVIDIA under Jensen Huang, you've made 68000% over the past twenty years.

而博通在哈克坦的领导下，也涨了32000%。

Broadcom under Haktan, you've made 32000%.

这成绩已经很不错了。

Not bad.

我想聊聊尼克斯队。

I wanna talk about the Knicks.

加油，尼克斯！

Let's go Knicks.

这是自打我一岁以来，球队第一次拿到总冠军。

First championship since I was one year old.

最近一期节目中，我稍微表扬了一下维克多·维姆比亚马。

In a recent episode, I gave sort of preliminary praise to Victor Wimbiyama.

我依然觉得他是个不错的球员。

Still think he's a fine player.

但在尼克斯对马刺的系列赛中，他有点儿反派了，杰伦·布伦森反而成了主角。

Made a bit of a heel turn during the, Knicks Spurs series, and and Jalen Brunson emerged as the big hero.

所以目前我把维姆比降为中立评价。

So I I'm downgrading Wemby to, to a neutral for now.

我想再看看情况再说。

I wanna I wanna wait and see.

那轮系列赛里，针对我们尼克斯的肘击实在太多了。

There's few too many elbows flying at my Knicks during that series.

不过，话说回来，你聊聊尼克斯老板MSG吧。

But, anyhow, tell me about, Knicks owner, MSG.

这里涉及好几家公司，还有掌管这些公司的那个人。

There there are there are few different companies here and the man who runs these companies.

我觉得维姆比在夺冠之后就该卖了。

Well, you know, I'd say Wemby is a sell after the, championships.

我觉得他的明星光环在那几场激烈的身体对抗、频繁犯规，还有关键时刻掉链子之后，一下子跌了不少。

I thought he his star really faded big time between some of the sharp bevels, the fouls, and also coming up short in the clutch.

不过话说回来，詹姆斯·多兰的声望倒是涨得飞快。

I think, but anyhow, James Dolan, though, his star is rising big time.

他掌管着三家公司：MSG体育，拥有纽约尼克斯和纽约游骑兵队；MSG娱乐，拥有尼克斯队比赛的麦迪逊广场花园；还有Sphere娱乐，拥有拉斯维加斯的Sphere体育馆。

He's CEO of three companies, MSG Sports, which owns the New York Knicks, New York Rangers, MSG Entertainment, which owns Madison Square Garden where the Knicks play, and Sphere Entertainment, which owns the Sphere Arena in Las Vegas.

他同时是这三家公司的CEO，整个家族都控制着它们。

And so he CEO three companies, his family controls them all.

过去一年他最大的成功，也是我们把他列进名单的原因，就是Sphere体育馆——那个拉斯维加斯的场馆，现在成了公司最赚钱的项目。

Actually, the biggest win for him in the past year and actually the reason why we put it on the list was for Sphere, which is the, Vegas Arena, which has turned into a big hit for the company.

过去一年左右，股价已经涨了三倍以上。

Stock is more than tripled over the last last year or so.

那个场馆现在盈利非常可观。

That arena has become very profitable.

他们还打算在阿布扎比和华盛顿特区外新建场馆。

They want to open new ones in in in Abu Dhabi as well as outside Washington DC.

那里有一场特别火的演出，是他们自己打造的《绿野仙踪》版本，票房已经突破了四亿张。

They have a very hot show there, is a their own version of The Wizard of Oz, which is sold over almost 400,000,000 of tickets.

最初他们推出了一部叫《地球明信片》的作品，主打自然主题，充分利用了Sphere的音响和沉浸式体验。

So they did something called Postcard from Earth initially, which was kind of a nature oriented documentary, making use of the Sphere, sound system and whole like experience.

后来他们又拿下版权，推出了自己的《绿野仙踪》版本。

And then they came up and they got the rights to they made their own version of The Wizard of Oz.

当你在那儿看的时候，几乎感觉就像和多萝西一起被卷进了龙卷风里。

And when you're when you're watching it there, you almost feel like you're in the cyclone there with Dorothy.

真的会被晃得头晕目眩。

I mean, you're shaken.

所以这场演出非常成功。

And so it's been very successful.

这整个项目其实是吉姆·多兰的心血之作。

And, that really was his baby, Jim Dolan's baby.

很多人都觉得这根本赚不到钱。

A lot of people thought it would never make money.

当初大家都觉得这是个浪费钱的项目。

It was kind of a boondoggle.

预算超支得厉害。

There were big cost overruns.

建造成本大约二十亿美元，比原计划高出十亿。

It cost about 2,000,000,000 to build, which is about a billion dollars above estimate.

结果却大获成功，他真该得到很多赞誉。

That's turned into a home run, and he really deserves a lot of credit for that.

有时候，巴伦会派你和我出去参加各种会议，去跟有钱人聊聊其他有钱人是怎么想着怎么赚更多钱的。

Some sometimes sometimes Barron sends you and I on the road to conferences for what I described as talking to rich people about what other rich people are saying about getting richer.

你觉得我们有朝一日能一起去球体场馆聊聊吗？

Do you think we'll ever get together and talk at the sphere?

他们会不会干脆把整个球体场馆包下来，就为我们两个人用？

Will they ever, just take down the whole sphere for you and me?

这个场馆能坐一万五千到两万人，算得上人山人海了。

Well, you know, it's it's about a 15 or 20,000 seat arena, so it's a it's a lot of people.

我觉得不太可能。

I don't I don't think so.

不过说到MSG体育，这家家族已经掌控尼克斯和游骑兵队三十多年了。

But anyhow, on MSG Sports, I mean, they've owned the the the family's controlled the, Knicks and Rangers for about thirty plus years.

我觉得多兰现在 mostly 让篮球团队自己做主。

And I think, you know, Dolan's kinda let his basketball people run the show.

我觉得……

And I think

可以说他过去管得有点多，但现在放手多了，大家反而更满意。

It's fair to say that he was a little handsy with the making maybe in the past, and he's not as handsy now, and people seem to like that.

是这样吗？

Is that right?

没错，我觉得这个评价挺中肯的。

Exact I I I think that's probably a fair assessment.

我觉得他现在采取了放权的做法。

I think he's kinda taken a hands off approach.

而且今年，尼克斯队各方面好像都突然顺了。

And, I I mean, things, I mean, kind of all clicked for the Knicks this year.

事情顺利的时候，上面的人自然会得功劳；可一旦表现不好，他也逃不掉责备。

And, you know, the guy on top, you know, gets the credit for for when things are going well, he's also gets criticized when things are not going well.

他过去确实有点儿脾气暴躁。

I mean, he's had somewhat brusque behavior in the past.

就在一两年前，他还被看作是投资者的负担。

I mean, he was actually viewed as liability for investors up until about a year or two ago.

人们常说‘多兰折扣’，就是指他家族掌控的公司股价总是被打折，因为大家觉得他们会把家族利益放在公众股东前面。

People talked about the so called Dolan discount on the on the companies that he basically headed in which his family controlled because the perception was they would put the family interest above those of public shareholders.

但今年的情况清楚地表明，多兰家族真的为股东创造了价值。

But this year has really shown that the Dolans have really delivered for shareholders.

MSG体育的股价几乎翻了一倍。

MSG Sports has nearly, doubled.

MSG娱乐的市值也差不多翻了一倍，今年更是涨了三到四倍。

MSG Entertainment's about doubled, and this year's up, like, three or fourfolds.

他旗下的三家公司全都跑赢了大盘，我在《巴伦周刊》里把这种表现称为‘布伦森级别’的发挥。

All all three of his companies are beating the market, which which I have described in Barron's as Brunson level scoring right now.

没错。

Exactly.

吉姆·多兰今年的表现，确实达到了布伦森级别的水准。

So it's been Brunson level performance for Jim Dolan.

明白了。

Okay.

我再聊一个跟人工智能相关的，不过先说说制药行业吧。

Let's talk, I have one more kinda AI related one, but let me talk first about pharma.

提到这份顶级CEO榜单，大家肯定不会意外大卫·里克斯会上榜，他是礼来公司的。

And I don't think it'll be any surprise that Dave Ricks from Eli Lilly makes the list.

我们做这份榜单，不只是看谁运气好碰上了好时机，还得看是不是早早就打好了基础，比如十五年前就开始布局之类的。

With this top CEO list, what we try to do is it's not just enough to have to be in the right place at the right time because you laid down the groundwork, you know, fifteen years ago, so forth.

礼来公司显然正处于减肥药物这场革命的中心。

And Lilly is obviously there's a revolution right now with these, obesity drugs.

他们拥有目前最出色的药物。

Lilly has the best in class one.

还有一款在研药物，表现甚至比这个还要好。

It has another one in development that looks even better than that.

所以他们在可能是有史以来利润最高的制药产品上占据了绝对主导地位。

So it's in a dominant position for what's probably going to be the biggest pharmaceutical moneymaker of all time.

能处在这样的位置，确实不错。

That's a good place to be.

不过，当初他们能不能快速把药送到有需要的人手里，其实并不确定。

However, it it wasn't a sure thing that they would be able to get these drugs into the hands of people who wanted them quickly enough.

戴夫·里克斯在礼来公司搞了一场类似战时生产动员的制造升级。

Dave Ricks went on basically a manufacturing Marshall Plan at Lilly.

他建了或升级了十一家工厂。

He built or upgraded 11 plants.

他现在拥有的生产能力相当于超过三百个足球场的面积。

He now has manufacturing space equal to more than 300 football fields.

换句话说，世界上最大的建筑是波音公司的厂房，用来制造宽体客机。

Or the way I put it is, the largest building in the world is owned by Boeing, it's used to create wide body planes.

而礼来生产的药物，相当于五个那样的厂房的规模。

And Lilly manufactures drugs out of the equivalent of five of those buildings.

他们在这方面做得非常好，让有需要的人能及时用上这种药。

So they've done a great job of getting this medicine to the people who want it.

他们还在争取更多的保险覆盖。

They're they're getting more insurance coverage for it.

他们推出了口服药片版本。

They have a pill version.

他们还建立了直接销售平台，减少了患者使用上的障碍。

They have a a direct sales platform that's reducing patient friction.

但关键问题是，这么多钱你打算怎么用？

But the key is what do you do with all this money?

因为现在资金大量涌入，他们正在收购其他公司，以拓展业务到神经学、肿瘤学等领域。

Because there's tons of money rolling in, so they're doing buyouts to help diversify the business into things like neurology and oncology and so forth.

我想指出的是，现在早期药物研发正从试管转向计算机芯片，借助人工智能大幅提高新药研发的成功率。

And and I'll just point out that we're at a moment where people are talking about early stage drug research shifting from test tubes to computer chips using AI to be able to get a lot more shots at the goal in developing medicines.

所以眼下有这么多现金流，确实很有帮助。

So it helps to have tons of cash flowing in right now.

我觉得戴夫·里克斯把公司打理得非常好。

I think, Dave Ricks has set the company up well.

是的。

Yeah.

我完全同意你对里克斯的评价。

I mean, I would second that on Rick's.

他们在GLP-1药物和注射剂领域都是领头羊，现在又推出了口服药片，这能极大扩展市场。

I mean, they're the leader in the GLP one drugs, leader in the injectables, and now coming up the, pills which could really broaden the market.

他们是唯一一家能和科技巨头、伯克希尔等巨头并肩进入标普500顶级行列的制药公司。

This is the only drug company that's really in the top, league of the S and P 500 kind of with the big boys in terms of all the tech leaders, Berkshire and others.

他专注于研发，没有像一些竞争对手那样热衷于大规模并购，这为礼来股东带来了丰厚回报。

And, he's done he's done a phenomenal job focused on research, not on doing mega merger deals like some of its like Lilly's rivals, and it's really paid off very well for Lilly shareholders.

再给我们讲一位首席执行官吧。

Give us another CEO.

我倒是想提一位没那么出名的，叫埃文·格林伯格。

You know, I'll I'll give you one that who's not quite as well known is Evan Greenberg.

他是丘博保险的首席执行官，这家公司是财产与责任保险行业的领头羊。

He is the CEO of Chubb, which is the leader in the property and casualty insurance industry.

它是业内最好的。

It's best

你这是要让我们对保险话题热血沸腾啊。

You're gonna get us you're gonna get us fired up about insurance right now.

对吧？

Right?

这确实有点不一样。

I mean, it's a little bit different.

埃文·格林伯格领导的丘博保险，最出名的是它的高端住宅保险产品。

Evan Greenberg, Chubb is best known for, its high end homeowners insurance.

他们在这一市场占据领先地位，靠的是他们精心打造的顶级保障计划。

They dom they're the leader in that market with their masterpiece plans.

很多听众可能都买过这类保险。

Many, of our listeners may have those.

丘博在理赔方面口碑很好，处理起来不刁难客户，不像一些竞争对手，经常被批评故意拖延或拒赔。

They're known for being pretty good in terms of paying claims and not being too difficult, unlike, some of its rivals who've been who've been criticized for doing that.

他主导了十年前丘博收购ACE的合并交易，如今这家公司已经成为业内运营最出色的大型财产与意外险企业之一。

And, he's basically engineered the merger of Ace, which he had held with Chubb about ten years ago, and it's really turned into the probably the best run major property and casualty insurance company.

他是著名保险业高管莫里斯·汉克·格林伯格的儿子，老格林伯格今年已经101岁了，直到几年前还一直活跃在保险行业。

He's the son of a famous insurance executive, Maurice Hank Greenberg, who's now about 101 years old, who's I mean, had been pretty active in in the insurance business up until about a couple of years ago.

他这个人非常强势，性格严谨，现在七十出头了。

And he's a formidable guy, very intense, and he's in his early seventies now.

他大概71岁，还打算继续执掌丘博很长一段时间。

Think he's around 71, and he wants to keep, running Chubb for quite some time.

我认为他在奥马哈是个铁粉，伯克希尔·哈撒韦由沃伦·巴菲特掌舵，是奇博最大的单一股东，这本身就是对这家公司的强力背书。

And I think he is a big fan out in Omaha, Berkshire Hathaway, which is led by Warren Buffett, is the biggest single shareholder in Chubb, and that's a pretty nice endorsement of the company.

你躲不开人工智能。

You can't get away from AI.

我知道有时候读者或听众会翻白眼，说哎呀又来AI了，真烦，但眼下它确实渗透在这么多故事里。

I know sometimes, readers or listeners might roll their eyes and say, oh, I'm so tired of hearing about AI, but it's playing a part in so many of these stories right now.

就拿奇博来说，这家公司已经裁了一些人。

In the in the case of Chubb, the company has done some layoffs.

他们腾出了不少资金。

They've freed up some money.

他们投资了机器学习，用来提升核保能力。

They've invested in machine learning to do better underwriting.

有意思的是，我听说他们在拿新业务方面表现特别好，尤其是那些新冒出来的数据中心——它们都需要保险。

And then sort of in an in an ironic twist, one of the places I hear they're doing doing very well in getting new business are all these new data centers that are popping up because they need insurance.

所以他们正把这套新的核保能力用起来。

So they're sort of taking this new underwriting capability.

他们正在积极争取这些数据中心的客户。

They're going out and they're and they're winning clients among these these data centers.

所以这家公司确实非常成功。

So that that that company has certainly been very successful.

我觉得回报率还算不错，跑赢了市场，但算不上特别突出。

I think the returns have been I think mar maybe market beating are good, but not great.

毕竟这是家保险股，一般不可能指望它带来惊人的高回报。

I mean, it's an insurance stock, and therefore, you're not gonna generally get, I mean, huge outsized returns from it.

它更像是一只稳扎稳打的股票。

It's kind of a steady stock.

实际上还挺抗跌的。

It's actually pretty defensive.

市场下跌的时候，像Chubb这样的保险股通常能扛得住。

The market declines, it it it mean the PNC stocks like Chubb, I mean, should hold up.

我正在看这只股票的走势图。

I'm looking at a chart of the stock.

三年来，你的收益和标普500几乎一模一样，可能就差那么一点。

Three years you've made about exactly as much as the S and P 500, may maybe within a point or so.

你买保险股，本来就不是冲着能大幅跑赢市场去的，对吧？

And it's not and, you know, you don't you don't buy an insurance stock, I think, because you're looking for blazing returns to beat the market.

你买它，是看中它比较稳健。

It's, you're looking for something somewhat defensive.

所以，这种股票能跟上大盘，就已经很不错了。

So matching the market with this kind of stock is a good thing.

这么说合适吗？

Is that is that fair to say?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得你说得对。

I mean, I I think you're right about that.

它确实挺抗跌的。

I mean, it's defensive.

我觉得当市场变得艰难、出现下跌时，奇普公司往往能逆市上涨。

I think if the when the market gets tough and you have actually some declines, actually, Chubbaw often will be, will run counter the market and actually rally.

所以如果你的投资组合里有很多高风险的股票，持有这种防御型股票其实挺好的。

So it's actually a good, defensive, stock to have if you're in your portfolio, if you have a lot of more offensive risk on stocks.

明白了。

Okay.

我现在说一个。

I'll do one now.

接下来我们要听到的这个人，我们其实已经联系过。

This is someone that we're we're actually gonna hear from.

我最近刚和他聊过。

I had a conversation with him recently.

几分钟后，你们就能听到我们对话的一部分。

We'll hear some of that conversation in just a few minutes.

他是康宁公司的温德尔·威克斯。

It's Wendell Weeks from Corning.

这是一家非常了不起的公司。

This is a remarkable company.

他们做玻璃已经一百七十五年了，最早还给爱迪生的灯泡生产过玻璃。

A 100 they've been in the glass business for a hundred seventy five years, and they started, they they want they once manufactured glass for Thomas Edison's light bulbs.

后来他们推出了科宁锅具，很多人都在厨房里见过。

They went into Corningware, which people know from their kitchen cabinets.

不过他们早就不再做这个业务了，很久以前就卖掉了。

They're not in that business anymore, sold a long time ago.

在互联网泡沫和破裂期间，他们在光纤领域非常突出。

They were very prominent during the .comboom and bust, selling optical fiber.

之后又进入了智能手机屏幕市场。

They went into smartphone screens.

我们待会儿会听到温德尔说，他在泡沫破裂后接手公司，从那段时间学到了几件事。

And what we're gonna hear from Wendell is he he came in after the .combust, and what he learned from that was a couple of things.

不管发生什么，都要持续投入研发。

Keep researching no matter what.

推出新产品时，最好找合作伙伴分担风险。

And when you come out with new products, try to partner with someone to help hold the risk down.

所以他们在进入智能手机屏幕领域时，就和苹果合作推出了康宁玻璃。

So that when they went into smartphone screens, they they partnered with Apple for Gorilla Glass.

但现在，重点完全放在了一款叫Contour的产品上。

But right now, it's all about something called Contour.

建造数据中心时，你会用到大量超高速芯片，得把它们连起来。

Basically, when you're building these data centers, you have all these blazing fast chips, you have to hook them together.

一旦距离超过几米，铜线就不怎么管用了。

And copper is not very good for that job once you get over distances of, let's say, a couple meters.

会带来很多噪声、干扰和发热问题。

You get a lot of you get a lot of noise, interference, heat, problems.

铜线传输数据靠的是电子，也就是电流。

And the different with with copper, you're basically transmitting data with electrons or electricity.

而光纤用的是光子，也就是光。

With optical fiber, you're using photons or light.

用光传输的话，那些铜缆带来的问题就全都不会出现。

And when you use light, you don't get any of those problems that you get with copper.

所以数据能传得更远。

So you can send this data over longer distances.

现在要让这些大型数据中心运转起来，关键就在这儿。

This is the thing you need right now in order to make these big data centers work.

温德尔·威克斯把康宁公司之前利用率不高的产能，转化成了大规模生产，来支持这场人工智能基础设施的扩张。

And what Wendell Weeks has done is taken this basically underutilized capacity that Corning had and turned it into massive production to support this AI build out.

他还让团队设计了一种新型线缆，能大幅提升密度，让建数据中心的人在布满线缆的同时，不至于堵住散热气流。

And he actually, had his folks design a new type of cable that can greatly increase density so that these, people who are building these data centers can put in enough of these cables without blocking airflow and so forth.

这事儿做得特别成功。

It's been phenomenally successful.

确实大获成功。

Been a phenomenal success.

我觉得它的股价差不多是盈利的50倍，这清楚说明市场有多看重这家公司，多认可它的盈利能力。

I think it trades for almost 50 times earnings, which is just how it just shows how much the market appreciates and, you know, values these company this company's earnings.

我觉得股票代码是GLW，代表Glassworks，也就是玻璃制品公司。

I think the ticker is GLW, which I think stands for Glassworks.

过去三年里，它的股价涨了426%。

It's made 426% over the past three years.

你说得对，这一点我们得特别提一下。

And to your point, this is something we should point out.

这份顶级CEO榜单，根本不是选股指南。

This top CEOs list is definitely not a stock picking exercise.

所以你看，这些股票里头，有些看起来定价很高，这完全没问题。

So, you know, some of these stocks here, it's not only okay to have a stock that looks ambitiously priced.

反而是好事。

It's actually a good thing.

这说明你做的事让投资者特别认可。

It means that you've done something that investors really like.

他们用更高的股价来肯定你的价值。

They've awarded you with a sort of higher stock valuation.

所以，我们做这份名单并不是去找便宜股票的。

So we're not out there looking for stock bargains with this list.

如果看看过去的表现，去年的顶级CEO名单——again，这不是选股活动，那些股票的表现比大盘低了几个百分点。

If we take a look at the past returns, last year's list of top CEOs, again, not a stock picking exercise, those stocks underperformed the market by a couple of points.

如果看过去三年的整体情况，我们的名单整体跑赢了市场。

If you take a look at the past three years on the whole, our lists are ahead of the market.

在ETF行业，早有人给这种策略配了代码和管理费了，但那不是我们想要的。

In the in in the ETF business, they would've someone would've already put a ticker symbol and a wrap fee on that strategy by now, but that's not what we're looking for here.

还有没有其他你们觉得大家该知道的事？

Any, anything else that you need folks to know about?

有什么暑假计划想炫耀一下的吗？

Any, any summer plans you wanna brag about?

有什么生活建议？不是股票方面的，而是能帮到大家的实用心得？

Any hot tips, not not from the stock market, but, any any life coaching that you wanna give people?

有什么事是大家没在做但其实该做的？或者你接下来最期待做什么？

Is there any, what what are people not doing that they should be doing, or what are you what are you excited to be doing next?

这个夏天我会待在东长岛，靠近汉普顿那边，托尼。

Well, you know, I'll be spending time in the, Tony, East End Of Long Island this summer out out in, out in the near the Hamptons.

那里就是华尔街人士夏天常去的地方。

So, that's where, you know, all of Wall Street seems to summer.

现在每栋房子都被搞另类投资、私募股权、高盛的人买走了。

Now every every house seems to be, being bought now by someone in, alternative assets, private equity, Goldman Sachs.

科技圈的热潮其实正蔓延到华尔街，再传到东长岛来。

So the the the boom on the boom on, in the tech world is actually flowing over into into Wall Street, and, that's flowing out to the East End Of Long Island.

我特别爱听那些老汉普顿人抱怨新来的人。

I love to hear the Hamptons people complaining about all the, all the newly arriving Hamptons people.

听上去真是挺热闹的。

I mean, it sounds like quite a scene.

我不是那种去汉普顿的人。

I'm I'm not a I'm not a Hamptons guy.

你知道的。

You know?

我知道。

I'm I know.

我在这儿，住在韦斯特切斯特北部树林里，跟松鼠作伴。

I'm up here in the, I'm up here with the squirrels in the woodsy north of Westchester.

好了，老兄。

Alright, buddy.

每次见到你都真好。

Always great to see you.

谢谢你的宝贵时间。

Thanks for your time.

挺好。

Good.

能和你聊天真开心。

Good to be with you.

正在听的，我想是我们音频制作人艾米丽。

Listening in, I think, our audio producer, Emily.

艾米丽，你在吗？

Are you there, Emily?

我在这儿呢。

I'm right here.

你觉得怎么样？

So what do you think?

要不我们先休息一下，待会儿再回来听科宁公司的温德尔分享？

Maybe a quick break now, and then we'll come back and hear from Wendell at Corning.

你能先给大家预告一下下周有什么内容吗？

You wanna tell folks what's on tap a little bit for next week?

系好安全带，留意紧急出口，因为接下来我们要去的是迪尔城。

Buckle your seat belts and check for your exit row because we are going to have Delta City.

等等。

Wait.

让我猜猜。

Let me guess.

我们刚才在聊拖拉机。

We're we're talking about tractors.

是拖拉机吗？

Is it tractors?

不是。

No.

是鞋类。

It's footwear.

明白了。

Alright.

你继续说。

Go go ahead.

下周敬请期待。

Next week, stay tuned.

我们会采访达美航空的首席执行官埃德·巴斯蒂安。

We are talking to Delta Airlines CEO Ed Bastian.

真不错。

Very nice.

达美航空现在势头太猛了。

Delta's killing it right now.

这又是我们顶尖CEO名单上的一个名字。

It's another name from our top CEOs list.

艾米丽，靠窗还是靠过道？

Emily, window or aisle?

可别选中间座啊，那太尴尬了。

Don't you dare say middle and make it weird.

说真的，我骨子里还是喜欢靠窗，但实际选择时总会选过道。

You know, I'm I'm a window person at heart, but I'm an aisle person in practicality.

明白了。

Okay.

不过推车过来的时候，得留神别撞到膝盖。

But you gotta watch out for those knees when the cart goes by.

你虽然没六英尺四那么高，但有些人每次饮料车推过来都真悬。

Well, you're not six foot four, but some of us some of us, are in dire danger every time that drink cart goes by.

咱们休息一下。

Let's take a quick break.

接下来是康宁公司的温德尔·威克斯。

Wendell Weeks from Corning is next.

欢迎回来。

Welcome back.

我之前跟安德鲁聊过，康宁在玻璃行业一路走来，总是不断转型，只要一个业务的利润下滑，就立刻抓住新市场的机会。

I described earlier in my conversation with Andrew the path that Corning has taken in glass, constantly reinventing itself every time, basically, the margins in one business falls and a new market opens up.

我还试着扯了点关于光子的高深术语。

And I even tried to say some fancy stuff about photons.

Emily，我刚才一讲起科学术语，你觉得咋样？

How'd you like that, Emily, when I started to get sciency?

一下子让我想起初中时的地球科学课了。

It really took me back to seventh grade earth science.

七年级？

Seventh?

我还以为你要说三年级呢。

I thought you were gonna say third.

既然到了七年级，我表现得还不算差。

So at seventh seventh, I'm not doing too bad.

不过我们还是该听听真正懂玻璃、光学和光纤的人，让他们说说现在的情况。

But we should hear from someone who actually knows a thing or two about glass and optics and fiber and can can fill us in on what's going on.

我最近有机会和康宁的首席执行官温德尔·威克斯聊了聊，他是我们顶尖CEO名单上的一员。

I had a chance recently to speak with Corning CEO Wendell Weeks, a member of our top CEOs list.

现在我们来听一听那段对话。

Let's hear some of that conversation now.

我看你们公司做玻璃已经一百七十五年了，每十年都彻底转型，从灯泡、炊具（你们现在早就不做了），到二十五年前互联网热潮的电缆，再到智能手机屏幕，现在又是支撑人工智能运行、在数据中心里需求激增的光纤。

I look at your company, a hundred seventy five years in the glass business, and totally different businesses decade to decade going back to light bulbs and cooking ware, which you're, of course, out of now and cable for the, for the Internet boom twenty five years ago, and smartphone screens and now, cable that is making AI work, cable that's in sort of explosive demand for for data centers.

我就从这一点开始问吧。

Let me start with that.

我先从这个产品特性说起。

Let me start with this this product contour.

再说说数据中心里的光纤。

And with optical fiber in data centers.

咱们稍微深入聊聊，你尽管用专业术语，我不怕听不懂。

Let's nerd out for a moment, you can hit me with some big words if you want to.

光纤到底为什么特别适合数据中心？

What is it about optical fiber that makes it perfect for data centers?

为什么不用铜线呢？

Why can't we just use copper?

现在这些产品为啥这么抢手？

What has these products so in demand right now?

生成式AI的工作方式，本质上是把成千上万块GPU连成一个神经网络，每块都和其他所有GPU互通。

The way in which generative AI works is literally you're forming a neural network of all of these GPUs that are each linked to every other GPU.

以前GPU数量没那么多，用铜线还能连得过来。

There were times when therefore the amount of GPUs that were involved was a relatively small number and therefore you could reach them all with copper connections.

但现在他们发现，计算能力越强，结果就越好，模型也变得越来越聪明。

But now what they've found is the more and more compute you put together, the better and better your results are, the smarter and smarter the models get.

所以现在一个典型的集群有十五万台GPU，全部互相连接。

So now a typical cluster would be 150,000 GPUs all linked together.

整个数据中心，甚至整个数据中心园区，每台GPU都能直接连到其他任何一台。

And so now you've got a whole data center, a whole campus of a data center, that every single one of those GPUs has a path to every other one.

从这个角度看，它的工作方式真的就像人脑一样。

So it literally works like your brain in that way.

因此，从成本、功耗和延迟的角度来看，当距离达到一定程度时，用光纤连接GPU比用铜线更高效。

And so if there's a certain amount of distance it is more effective from a cost standpoint, a power standpoint and a latency standpoint to link those GPUs with fiber than copper.

所以我们现在正处在光纤逐步取代铜线的转折点，尤其是在生成式AI的计算领域。

And so we're at this stage of a substitution curve of fiber optics replacing copper in more and more and more of the compute for generative AI.

你不仅赶上了这场AI浪潮，而且时机正好。

You were not just in the right place at the right time for this AI explosion.

你原本就做光纤业务，但为了应对AI带来的需求，你还是做了一些调整。

You had you were in the optical fiber business, but you needed to make some changes in order to prepare yourself for AI demand.

为了全力抓住这次AI浪潮的商机，你们具体做了哪些准备？

What kinds of things did you have to do to get ready to sell as fully as as you can into this movement right now?

从2018年开始，我带领一个小团队，深入思考该开发哪些产品，才能真正帮助那些投身生成式AI的人。

Starting in 2018, I began to lead a small team as we thought deeply through what would be the products that we could best develop that could help the folks trying to attack generative AI.

于是我们彻底重新设计了所有产品，连最基础的光纤都重新做了。

And so we reinvented all of our product sets right down to the basic fiber.

我们五十年前就发明了第一款低损耗光纤，那产品本身已经非常出色。

We invented the first low loss fiber over fifty years ago, and it's such a capable product.

但我们现在完成的是再次革新光纤、光缆和连接方式，让同样大小的空间里能塞进多得多的连接通道。

But what we just finished doing is reinventing fiber, reinventing the cable and the connectivity to put it together so that you can put far, far, far more connections in a smaller space.

现在我们能在同样的空间里，部署比以前多出四倍的光纤和连接设备。

And so we are now being able to do on the order of four times as much fiber and connectivity in the same space as the previous product.

我们2018年启动这个项目，接着重新设计了供应链，好应对客户那些极短的安装窗口期——他们必须在极短时间内完成网络部署。

So we started that in 2018 and then we reimagined a supply chain that could serve these very short windows in which our customers have to be able to get the product installed, these networks installed.

然后我们重构了服务体系，把原本为设备制造商服务的技术团队，转过来服务超大规模云厂商，因为对他们来说，整个系统就像一台超级计算机。

And then we reimagined the service structure to be able to take pieces of our company that are aimed at tech for OEMs and apply it now to hyperscalers because really that's more like one big compute.