蒂莫西·加斯顿议员被议会停职两天——他在诺兰节目中反击

当蒂莫西·加斯顿被暂停职务时，你们都在哪儿？

So where were you lot when Timothy Gaston was being suspended?

好的。

Okay.

所以有四个问题，让我一一回应。

So there are four questions, and let me just address them both.

第一个问题是，委员会之所以陷入混乱，是因为主席布拉德肖女士在委员会会议前与证人——即第一部长——进行了私下会面。

The first point is the reason why the committee can descended into chaos is because the chair missus Bradshaw chose to have a private meeting with the witness, which was the first minister prior to the committee meeting.

如果我是该委员会的成员，我敢肯定我会说出比‘呼吸’更强烈的话来表达我对这件事的看法。

If I was a member of that committee, I'm pretty sure I would have said stronger words than breathe when it came to what I

宝拉·布拉德肖已经对她的会面作出了说明，而标准专员并未发现任何不当行为。

And Paula Bradshaw has accounted has accounted for the meeting she had, and the standards commissioner did not find any wrongdoing.

我们不会重述了，因为时间不够，乔纳森，你两分钟后就得走了。

We're not going to rehearse because we don't have the time, you've got to go in two minutes, Jonathan.

我们不会重述这一点。

We're not going to rehearse that point.

保拉·布拉德肖在该委员会期间的行为被认定为恰当。

Paula Bradshaw was deemed to have behaved appropriately during that committee.

当时为什么民主统一党拒绝了蒂莫西·加斯顿？如果你们当时也在场，为什么决定一致同意暂停蒂莫西·加斯顿？

Why did the DUP knock back Timothy Gaston at the time, and how come the decision was reached unanimously to suspend Timothy Gaston if you lot were on it?

好的，亚纪，让我解释一下。

Okay, Akira, let me explain.

关于第一点，我理应感到愤怒，就像加尔森先生在委员会里那样。

To finish on the first one, I would rightly be angered as was mister Garson on that committee.

关于标准委员会，它与其他委员会不同，因为它拥有调查权力。

In relation to the standards committee, it is a different type of committee than any other committee given its investigatory powers.

因此，该委员会的会议是保密的。

So the committee is confidential.

我不知道发生了什么，但我确实知道，民主统一党昨天在议会上一致投了反对票。

I don't know what happened, but I do know that the DUP unanimously voted against this in the chamber yesterday.

这才是重要的投票。

That was the vote that mattered.

在所有这些事情中，这样做是完全正确和恰当的。

Remember in all of these things, it's quite right and proper.

该委员会的成员不会与其他成员讨论他们所接收的对话内容和证据的性质，斯蒂文，这实际上是有充分理由的。

The members of that committee do not discuss with other members the nature of the conversations, the nature of the the evidence that they're receiving for for good reasons, Steven, actually.

因此，该政党以及另外90名不在委员会中的议员，直到上周才收到这份报告。

So the party and indeed indeed the other 90 MLAs that that aren't on the committee, they only received this report last week.

让我们来澄清一下背景。

So let's just put it in context.

委员会事务之所以保密，是有充分理由的，而且应该继续保持这样。

There's there's quite good reason why those committee businesses are confidential, and that's the way it should stay.

好的。

Okay.

乔纳森，我知道你得走了。

Jonathan, I know you need to go.

我向你保证我会让你走，因为你九点半要主持一个委员会会议，而你只剩下三十秒了。

I promise you I'd let you go because you're chairing a a committee meeting at half past nine, and you have thirty seconds to get there.

谢谢你们今天来和我们交流，德里克和巴拉米娜。

So thank you for talking to us today, Derek and Balamina.

早上好，德里克。

Morning, Derek.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道，如果你要和加文共度时间，今天就过来吧，但我只是想知道，为什么这个安排对布拉德肖先生来说这么仓促。

You know, just if you're gonna be Gavin's time with Gavin, come out today, but I just wanted to know why that's there is short to mister Bradshaw.

他想知道什么？

He wanted to know what?

抱歉。

Sorry.

对。

Yes.

如果你今年要找凯文、保拉、布拉德肖

If you're going to Kevin Paula Bradshaw this year

我们确实给了宝拉·布拉德肖一个参与节目的机会。

Well, we've we've absolutely offered Paula Bradshaw an opportunity to come on to the program.

她拒绝了。

She's declined it.

我们又给了她一次参与的机会。

We've given her another opportunity to come on.

这个机会依然有效，我们随时准备为宝拉·布拉德肖提供平台，让她表达对此事的看法。

The opportunity stands, and we are very much here waiting, ready, to provide a place for Paula Bradshaw, to air her views on this matter.

我们休息一下好吗？

Will we take a breather?

我们暂停一下，九点半播报新闻。

Let's pause for a second and get the news at half past nine.

今天早上我们所有人之间的讨论，我能看出你们在质疑我们。

So the the discussion this morning that we're all having with each other, I can see you calling us on it.

我们马上就会播出你们的一些来电。

We'll get some of your calls on air in a moment or two.

03030805555。

03030805555.

关于宝拉·布拉德肖和蒂莫西·加斯顿之间这场争论的更大背景，涉及到议员行为中什么是可接受、什么是不可接受的界限，甚至达到被制裁的程度。

The bigger picture story around this argument between Paula Bradshaw and Timothy Gaston, It feeds into what should be acceptable and unacceptable to the point where an MLA is sanctioned.

所以蒂莫西·加斯顿让主席深呼吸，你觉得这有多严重？

So Timothy Gaston telling that chair to breathe, how bad is that in your mind?

当然，今天早上还有一段背景：当新任阿尔斯特统一党领袖约翰·伯勒斯今天早上对巴克勒讲话时。

Then the context this morning, of course, that on air when the new leader of the Ulster Unionist party, John Burroughs, was speaking to Buckler this morning.

伯勒斯打断了帕特·希汉，而希汉让他闭嘴。

Burroughs interrupted Pat Sheehan, and Sheehan told him to shut up.

我们不妨听一下，就在大约半小时前，Gamu上这段对话是如何展开的。

Let's just have a listen actually how that unfolded on Gamu just about half an hour ago.

我们实际上曾经历过西欧最漫长的教育落后历史。

That we actually had the longest tale of educational underachievement in the whole of Western Europe.

让我们来谈谈这一点

Let's And what that

意味着无法推动它上升。

means can't drive it up.

那意味着什么。

And and what that means.

闭嘴，约翰。

Shut up, John.

等一下。

Hang on.

好吧，让我们在这一切中对每个人保持尊重。

Well, let's let's let's let's be respectful to everybody in all of this.

今天有些人对此表示异议。

And some of you are taking exception to that today.

零三三零八零五五五五。

Zero thirty thirty eighty fifty five fifty five.

今天我们邀请到爱尔兰新闻评论员牛顿·艾默生。

Irish news commentator Newton Emerson with us today.

尼敦，北爱尔兰政治中的攻防交锋。

Cut and thrust to politics in Northern Ireland, Newton.

什么是可以接受的，什么是不可接受的了？

What's acceptable and what's not anymore?

北爱尔兰政治一个奇怪的特点是，通常它非常有礼貌，尤其是在议会政治中，与苏格兰或威斯敏斯特相比。

One of the things the odd things about Northern Ireland politics is is usually how polite it is, if you compare it certainly in in in the assembly politics, if you compare it to, say, to Scotland or Westminster.

因此，我们这里通常有着相当文明的议会政治。

So we we normally do have fairly civil parliamentary politics here.

在委员会中，也有一套需要遵循的潜规则。

And there is a bit of a game also that needs to be played in the committees.

因为这些都是政党委员会，它们在审查来自委员会成员所属政党的部长们。

Because they're all party committees, they're scrutinizing, you know, the ministers from the parties often of members that are on the committee.

所以他们不能太过对抗，否则系统就无法运转。

So they can't be too confrontational or the system won't work.

这并不是权力分享特有的问题。

And that's not a particular problem with power sharing.

在威斯敏斯特，所有政党委员会都是一样的。

Westminster, all party committees are the same.

为了使这套机制正常运转，每个人都需要表现出一定的克制。

Everybody needs to show a little bit of restraint in order for this to function.

因此，我认为，斯托蒙特正在逐渐失去这种平衡感，而它在委员会层面的运作历史上一直非常成功。

And so there's beginning to be, I think, a breakdown in that sense at Stormont having operated very successfully at the committee level throughout its operational history.

你不仅在行政办公室委员会看到这种情况，还在社区委员会看到，新芬党成员要求民主统一党部长戈登·兰兹辞职。

You see it not just in what's happened at the executive office committee, but in the community's committee where Sinn Fein members have been calling for the DUP minister Gordon Lands to resign.

显然，戈登·兰兹不会辞职，于是委员会就显得非常荒谬。

And, obviously, Gordon Lands isn't going to resign, so then the committee just looks ridiculous.

蒂莫西·加斯顿在行政办公室委员会所发生的事情则更微妙一些。

What's happened at the executive office committee with Timothy Gaston is a bit more subtle.

我认为，加斯顿对在委员会中可以多具竞争性、比如能否向证人提出尖锐问题，有着不同的看法；而委员会其他成员——并非全部成员，但主要是主席和其他人——似乎认为证人在委员会里就该轻松闲聊。

I think that Gaston has a different perspective on how competitive you can be on whether you can ask challenging questions to witnesses, for example, and the rest of the committee, well, not an entire rest of the committee, but the chair and other members seem to think that witnesses at committees, for example, should just have a nice chat.

这似乎是他们对

That seems to be understanding of

委员会。

the committee.

宝拉·布拉德肖这么做了，而标准委员会支持宝拉·布拉德肖，让她聚焦于委员会的职权范围提问。

Paula Bradshaw did, and the the standards committee backed Paula Bradshaw up in her in her attempt to focus the questions on the remit of the committee.

是的。

Yes.

但我谈的是另一个问题：委员会认为蒂莫西·加斯顿不该向证人提出特别具有挑战性的问题——不是部长，而是那些前来提供专业证词的证人。

But I'm talking about a different issue where where the committee has said that that Timothy Gaston should not have asked particularly challenging questions to witnesses, not ministers, but witnesses who turn up and just want to give their expert testimony.

因此，关于在这些委员会中可以多尖锐地提问，各方存在一些分歧，而这已经升级为政党之间的对抗。

So there's a little bit of a difference of opinion there about how edgy you can be at these committees, and that has just escalated into this, into into this, confrontation between parties.

因此，专员表示，当加斯顿让宝拉·布拉德肖深呼吸时，这一评论是不合理的、过度的，并且可能被合理地视为带有居高临下和轻蔑的语气。

So the commissioner said that when when Gaston, told Paula Bradshaw to breathe, that comment was unreasonable excessive and may reasonably be perceived as condescending and patronizing in tone.

你认为普通公众会同意专员的看法吗？

Do you think many of the general public would would agree with the commissioner?

嗯，我的意思是，海瑟，你同意吗？

Well well, I mean Do you agree, Heather?

这不是公众的评判。

It's not the public judgment.

我认为那很可能是一句居高临下的言论，但并不比委员会其他人对蒂莫西·加斯顿说的居高临下的话更过分。

I think it probably was a a a condescending remark, but no more so than the condescending remarks made by others to Timothy Gaston at the committee.

一切都变得有点居高临下了。

It has all got a bit a bit condescending.

他没有按照他们理解的方式玩游戏。

He he is not playing the game as they understand it.

他们所有人，或者其中一些人，都是这么想的，抱歉。

That's how they all feel or some of them feel there, sorry.

民主统一党的成员，我似乎并不觉得如此。

The DUP members, I don't seem to feel that.

我个人认为，他更像是一位威斯敏斯特委员会的成员，而不是斯特莫恩委员会的成员。

Personally, I think that he's more like a Westminster committee member than a Stormont committee member.

他比斯特莫恩委员会喜欢的风格更具对抗性，但在我看来，并不过分。

He's a little bit more combative than than a Stormont Committee likes, but not not unreasonably so in my opinion.

我认为他只是在任职期间逐渐以错误的方式激怒了他们，而整个系统无法消化这种情况。

I think he's just he's just wind them up progressively the wrong way over the the period that he's been there, and the system has not been able to digest it.

你对这个处罚有什么看法？

What do you make of the sanction?

停职两天？

Two days suspended?

我的意思是，我认为这算不上什么特别不可逆或残酷的处理。

I mean, I think, you know, it's not it's not nothing particularly irreversible or ruthless.

这对他来说有点尴尬。

It's a bit embarrassing for him.

我认为他提到的一点让我印象深刻，他说当时就已经为那番言论道歉了，而这个投诉在他看来是几个月后突然冒出来的。

I I think that I I'm impressed by his point that he said that he apologized for the remark at the time, and then this complaint, as far as he's concerned, came out of the blue months later.

所以他觉得这是趁机发难，而我个人认为，这个投诉并没有得到足够的重视。

So he feels it was opportunistic, and I I don't think personally, I don't think that that that complaint was given sufficient weight.

这是韦恩和沃伦的观点。

Here's Wayne and Warren Point.

你替我说一遍。

Say that for me.

早上好，韦恩。

Good morning, Wayne.

早上好，史蒂文。

Morning, Steven.

史蒂文。

Steven.

天哪。

Oh, for goodness sake.

今天早上电话到处都是。

The phones are everywhere this morning.

我们看看能不能把韦恩叫回来。

We'll see if can get Wayne back.

不过手机快用完了。

Although the mobiles are running out.

我其实想知道，这是否是因为最近天气不好，导致一些口罩销量下降了，因为我的手机也撑不住了。

I actually wonder if it was because of the bad weather recently and whether some of the masks have gone down because my phone can't won't stand up either.

03030805555。

03030805555.

戴维森·克鲁姆林。

Davidson Crumlin.

早上好，大卫。

Morning, David.

早，早安，史蒂文。

Good good morning, Steven.

你怎么样

How are

吗？

you?

我还行。

I'm okay.

请说吧，先生。

Go ahead, sir.

史蒂文，我刚才在听你和蒂莫西说话。

Steven, just I was listening to you speaking with Timothy there.

蒂莫西提到你的一句话，你有没有意识到你的言论可能带有厌女倾向？

And one of your comments that Timothy was, could you have perceived your comment to be misogynistic?

让他女孩深呼吸。

Ask him a girl to breathe.

让他让宝拉·布拉德肖深呼吸。

Ask him Paula Bradshaw to breathe.

是的。

Yes.

史蒂文，我自己在过去这十年左右发现，男性气质常常被描绘成厌女。

Stephen, I myself have found over this past decade or so masculinity being being portrayed as misogyny.

有时，那些在沮丧中说出的话被解读为攻击行为，类似的情况我也经历过；正如蒂莫西正确指出的，确实有一些男人虐待女性，这完全是错误的。

And sometimes comments that might have been, said in frustration have been taken as acts of aggression or or similar, at a similar situation myself where and as as Timothy was rightly saying, there's there's men out there, yes, that have abused women, and that's completely wrong.

但也有男性，史蒂文，他们被女性虐待过。

But there's also men out there, Steven, that have been abused by women.

就在最近，你知道，司法部长

And just recently, you know, the justice minister

我不确定你想说什么，大卫，但这里的关键是，你觉得让宝拉·布拉德肖‘呼吸’这个评论是否恰当，是否应该受到处罚。

I'm not I'm not sure where you're going with this, David, but the the the the point here is whether you feel that the the the comment telling Paula Bradshaw to breathe was appropriate or not and warranted a sanction or not.

这正是我想表达的。

Well, that this is what I'm trying to get to.

关于‘呼吸’这个评论，正如蒂莫西今天上午承认的，很可能是因为他在与小组对话时感到沮丧，他没有足够的时间来解释自己想说的内容。

The the the comment breathe, quite possibly as Timothy has has admitted this morning, had been said through frustration because of the the the conversation to him and for him between Timothy and the panel, the lack of time that Timothy was getting to explain what he wanted to explain.

我想说的是，蒂莫西的沮丧和那句‘呼吸，阿波罗，呼吸’。

And I'm saying what I'm saying is that Timothy's frustration and saying, breathe, Apollo, breathe.

我也遇到过类似的情况，社会服务机构以及我接触过的其他不同机构，都曲解了我说过的话。

I've found similar things where social services and different different bodies that I've been dealing with have have taken things out of context that I have said.

好的。

Okay.

所有这些都被归咎于用餐时的攻击性，而在这种情况下，如果他们有机会充分表达自己、适当提问，并阐述他们被对待的方式以及被理解的方式，

And and it's it's all put down to the aggressiveness of the meal, in in a situation where that if they had a had an opportunity to explain themselves properly and ask questions properly and put their point of view over about how they were being treated and how they were being, understood by

不同。谢谢。

different Thank you.

我明白了。

I get it.

我明白了。

I get it.

我听到了。

I hear you.

韦恩和沃伦·波因特。

Wayne and Warren Pointe.

我们再试一次。

Let's try you again.

早上好，韦恩。

Morning, Wayne.

早上好，史蒂文。

Morning, Steven.

史蒂文，在我看来，那其实是一句评论。

Steven, in my opinion, it was a really it's actually a remark.

基本上，你说你是个

Basically, say you're

女人。

a woman.

深呼吸。

Breathe.

你知道我说的是什么意思吗？

You know what mean?

放松一下。

Relax yourself.

深呼吸。

Breathe.

还有约翰·伯罗斯，他本不该被要求闭嘴。

And the providing John Burrows, he should not have been told to shut up.

我们的人，我们的政客正在失去对彼此的尊重。

Our people, our politicians are losing respect for each other.

我们目前的政治体系以及一切

Our political system at the minute and all

但有些人可能会说，看看世界上任何政治体系。

the But some people might argue, you look at any political system across the world.

天啊。

My goodness.

看看威斯敏斯特那种互相撕扯的棉花般的激烈争吵。

Look at the cotton cotton thrust of of of Westminster where they rip shreds out of each other.

看看美国那边的言论氛围。

Look at America and the discourse there.

这难道不是正常的政治吗？

Like, is that not normal politics?

但问题是，史蒂文，我不把我们的政客当作真正的政客。

But the problem is, Steven, I don't count our politicians even as real politicians.

但老实说，我认为在你提到的所有地方，比如韦斯特布鲁克，他们从不外出。

But quite honest with you, I think over in all of them all places you're talking Westbrook, they never go out.

他们尽力完成自己的工作。

They do their best to deliver.

一个政党上台。

One party goes in.

有一个反对派。

There's an opposition.

他们不需要像其他国家那样花上十二个月或十八个月来组建政府。

It doesn't 12 take them twelve months or eighteen months to form a government like a year.

他们参加选举。

They go to the election.

一旦上台，他们就能立即投入运作。

They're once they're in, they're up and running.

他们曾经在这里。

They were here.

需要十二个月。

It takes twelve months.

他们并不相同。

They're not the same.

你无法比较任何一方。

You can't compare any.

在政治方面，我们就像北爱尔兰。

We're like Northern Ireland as regarding their politics.

在我看来，我们不需要什么真正的

In my opinion, we don't need no real

政治家。

politicians.

我们不需要。

We don't.

他们不会兑现承诺。

They don't deliver.

我的意思是，你告诉我他们会提供一些东西。

I mean you told me they would do deliver something.

但在下一次选举之前。

But before the next election.

我会盯着你。

And I'm going to hold you

说到做到。

to that one.

因为在我看来

Because in my

他们什么都不会实现。

opinion they'll deliver nothing.

我们的仓储服务会更差。

Our warehouse service will be worse.

我们的教育服务会更差。

Our education service will be worse.

我们的道路也会更差。

And our roads will be worse.

我将一无所有，只有上面乡村俱乐部提供的祈祷套餐，附带一家餐厅。

I'm gonna have nothing, only their prayer package from the country club up above with a restaurant.

这就是我们所拥有的全部。

That's all we'll have.

温，谢谢你。

Wynne, thank you.

今天早上打电话的号码是03030805555。

03030805555 is the number, to call this morning.

牛顿·埃默森，你认为有多少人会听这段话，并想到北爱尔兰现实中存在的问题——天啊，医疗服务中的坑洼、我们的教育系统和医疗等候名单等等——会觉得这不成比例吗？

Newton Emerson, how many people do you think will be listening to this and the real problems that there are in Northern Ireland around, my goodness, the potholes in the health service and our education system and health waiting lists and all of that and think that this is disproportionate?

嗯，大多数人根本就懒得听。

Well, most most people just switch off to it.

即使作为一名必须深入研究这些内容以完成工作的人，当我查看议会程序的细节时，我的眼睛也会感到昏花。

And even as someone who has to has to look into this for my job, I find my eyes cross over when I look into the minutiae of parliamentary procedure.

政客们当然离这些太近了，许多政客对这类程序性争论感到着迷且高度投入，甚至能为此纠结数月。

Politicians are too close to it, obviously, and many politicians find these kind of procedural arguments fascinating and highly engaging, and they they can obsess over them for months.

而我敢肯定，99%的公众甚至从未关注过最宏观的程序细节。

Whereas, I I mean, I'm quite certain that that 99% of the public never follows even the, you know, the even the most the broadest outline detail.

他们只是对这种局面留下混乱和失能的印象。

They just get an impression of chaos and dysfunction.

事实上，每个人都需要从远处重新审视斯特莫恩的运作方式。

And, really, everybody needs to take a step back at Stormont and think about how they're seen.

目前斯特莫恩的状况如何？

Where where what is the state of affairs at Stormont at the moment?

今天《爱尔兰新闻》刊登了米歇尔·奥尼尔的一份声明，其中阐述了她认为执行委员会和新芬党所取得的成果。

Well, there was a an article in the statement by Michelle O'Neil in the in the Irish news today stating the delivery that she believes that the executive has achieved and that Sinn Fein has achieved.

我认为，公众和媒体对斯特莫恩的看法中，存在过多的灾难化和例外主义倾向。

I think that there's too much catastrophism and exceptionalism in how the public and the media tends to see Stormont.

从全球民主政体的角度来看，这种政治体制及其面临的问题其实并不算特别异常。

It's not really that unusual a political system in terms of democracies everywhere and the problems that it faces.

即使它的结构虽然非常独特，但也并非完全荒谬。

Even the structure that it has, although it's highly unusual, really isn't that completely bizarre.

因此，我认为各政党及行政机构都意识到，目前公众对它们有着非常负面的看法。

And so I think that parties and the executive are, they are aware that they have this very negative public perception at the moment.

它们希望强调自己仍在正常运转，并且正在提供某些成果，这是它们自己的看法。

They want to emphasize that they are still functioning and delivering something as they see it.

我认为它们并不觉得自己像外界所看到的那样功能失调，但像这种委员会争执这样的新闻，根本无法传达出这一信息。

I don't think they see themselves as as as dysfunctional as they now appear from the outside, but stories like this committee argument really fail to get that message across.

今天早上，艾玛·D·索扎也加入了我们的讨论。

Emma D'Souza is joining us as well this morning.

早上好，艾玛。

Morning to you, Emma.

早上好，史蒂文。

Morning, Steven.

你对这一切以及花费在上面的时间有什么看法？

What what what do you make of of all of this and the time being spent on it?

公平地说，我们也在报道这件事，因为我对如今政界人士彼此交谈的界限、什么被接受、什么不被接受感到好奇。

To be fair, we're covering it as well because I'm interested in what are the parameters now for how politicians are expected to speak to each other and then what will be tolerated and what won't?

是的。

Yeah.

听我说。

Look.

我的意思是，史蒂文，这里确实遵循了一个程序。

I mean, Steven, there was a process followed here.

必须维护一定的标准。

There are standards that have to be upheld.

我认为，政界人士是公职人员。

I think what that the politicians are public servants.

他们的职责是服务公众，我们对政治代表的言辞理应有很高的期待。

They're meant to serve the public, and there absolutely has to be a high standard of discourse that we should expect off our poll political representatives.

所以，我觉得这个结果对于蒂莫西本人所说的话来说是公平的。

So, you know, I think this is a a fair outcome for what, you know, Timothy himself has said.

他当时对自己的语气感到后悔。

He regrets at the time in terms of his tone.

我认为这里有很多教训可以吸取，不仅对这位代表，而且对我们所有的代表在议院中的行为方式都有借鉴意义。

I think there's lessons to be learned, not just for this individual representative, but for all of our representatives in terms of how they actually operate in that, chamber.

而且，我觉得，令人失望的是，在我看来，我们正在看到一种更加脆弱的对话氛围。

And that, you know, it's disappointing, I think, to see that we are, in my view, seeing a more brittle discourse.

随着选举临近，我们看到政客们彼此之间的攻击越来越多。

We're seeing politicians chipping away each other a little bit more as we begin to get ready for an election.

艾玛，你觉得这都是可以接受的吗？

Do you think it's all fair game, Emma?

我认为这里必须有更高的行为标准，而目前我们并没有看到政治代表们展现出这样的标准。

I think that there there has to be a better standard of practice here, and I don't think that we're seeing that represented at the moment from political representatives.

我觉得他们正在重新退回各自的阵地。

I think that they are beginning to go back into the trenches.

我的意思是，选举是在2027年举行，但我们已经看到言论变得更加尖锐了。

I mean, the election fought at 2027, but yet we already see a more brittle discourse.

而且在社交媒体上也是如此。

And it's also across social media as well.

我的意思是，当前出现的言论确实非常艰难，并且会波及整个社会。

I mean, it's the discourse that's emerging is really quite difficult, and it ripples across society.

这会产生影响。

It has an impact.

言论尖锐有什么不对吗？

What's wrong with brittle discourse?

我认为，史蒂文，我们彼此交谈时应该有一个基本的标准。

I would say there's just a standard required, Steven, in terms of how we speak to each other.

这关乎尊重。

It's about respect.

这关乎尊重，而这次事件中确实缺乏尊重，我认为政治代表们应该达到更高的标准。

It's about respect, and there there was a lack of respect in this instance, and I think that political representatives have to be found in a higher standard.

你如何定义政治辩论中的尊重？在政治讨论中，尊重意味着什么？

How do you define respect in in political knockabout, in political discourse, in political discussion?

政治上的激烈争论与无礼、不尊重、应受惩罚的言论之间有什么区别？

What is political knock knockabout compared to disrespectable, disrespectful, punishable discourse?

是的。

Yeah.

听好了。

Look.

我的意思是，这里一直存在一个标准，已经对此进行了审查。

I mean, there's a standard there's been a standard review here.

这件事已经进行了调查。

It's been it's been investigated.

已经有了结论。

There's a conclusion.

有一份很好的报告。

There's a good report.

我觉得这相当公平。

I think it's pretty fair.

在我看来，这次明显是居高临下、摆架子，而且对主席不尊重。

I think in this instance, it was quite clearly at least to to in my in my opinion, it was quite clearly an instance of being condescending, of being patronizing, and of being disrespectful to the chairperson.

所以我觉得这个结果是公平的。

So I think the result is fair.

杰里·卡罗尔，人民高于先知。

Jerry Carroll, People Before a Prophet.

早上好，杰里。

Morning, Jerry.

早上好，斯蒂芬。

Morning, Stephen.

早上好。

Good morning.

请说吧，杰里。

Go ahead, Gerry.

你对这件事怎么看？

What do you think about this?

你会用这种语言对另一位省议员说吗？

Would you use that language to another MLA?

你说的是哪种语言，斯蒂芬？具体指什么？

What what language, Stephen, precisely?

告诉另一位省议员呼吸，或者告诉委员会主席呼吸？

Telling another MLA to breathe or a chair of a committee to breathe?

我的意思是

I mean

你会让人闭嘴吗？

Would you tell someone to shut up?

我不确定我有没有这么说过。

I I don't know if I have.

我的意思是，今天早上你对约翰·伯勒斯那样说过吗？

I mean had shamed it this morning to John Burroughs?

议场里有些名字。

Some names in the in the chamber.

显然，你在激烈地挑战，有些名字我确实会下意识地屏蔽掉。

Obviously, you're kind of challenging robustly and some names, I do kinda, you know, shut things out.

但我认为我没有说过‘闭嘴’，不过我知道，肯定有什么被记录下来了。

And but I I don't think I've said shut up, but, you know, I'm sure something happened to the record.

但我想说的是，史蒂文，我昨天在发言中已经提到，我认为蒂莫西·加斯顿和其他议员甚至部长们都有很多行为应该受到惩处，我提到了分裂言论以及一些与移民相关的言论等问题。

So but I I think the wider point, Steven, are that I mean, I stated yesterday in my comments that, you know, I think there was a lot of things that Timothy Garston and other MLAs and ministers even could be sanctioned for, and I referenced the kind of stuff on up of division and some of that being migrant rhetoric and and other issues.

但我觉得在这个具体案例中，惩罚与指控并不相称，显得有些过度了。

But I think in this particular case, I think the the punishment doesn't really fit the claim, and it seems to be a bit excessive.

而且，我想这背后还有一个更广泛的问题：这种做法为像我这样的人以及其他人树立了什么样的先例？当他们作为独立人士挑战行政部长、挑战委员会成员时，会得到怎样的回应？

And, I mean, obviously, I think there's a wider question about what kind of precedent does those set for parties, you know, like myself and and others, and then clear I clerical them as an independent When they challenge the executive ministers, when they challenge people on committees, you know, what is kind of the response?

如果他们不喜欢这些问题——而他们经常不喜欢蒂莫西提出的问题。

And if they don't like the questions, and quite often, they don't like the questions that Timothy asks.

但他们的回应是什么？

But what is the response?

而他的回应是，人们将被暂停并噤声。

And his response now, people will be suspended and shut down.

所以我认为这对其他议员以及公众都有更广泛的潜在影响，我认为议会、程序委员会和标准委员会在采取何种做法时需要谨慎。

So I think there are sort of potentially wetter implications for for other MLAs and for the public at large, and I think they need to be be careful in terms of what approach the the assembly and the the procedures committee and standards committee takes.

然后，埃默森，我们昨天在新闻发布会上听到吉姆·艾利斯特宣布，已经展开了一项警方调查。

And then you'd Emerson, we we had Jim Alister, announcing during a press conference yesterday, that there there is a a police inquiry.

请注意，他说的是‘警方调查’，而不是‘警方立案调查’，因为有人提出了投诉。

Now note the words police inquiry, not a police investigation because someone has complained.

据我所知，是吉米·布兰森提出的投诉。

Believe it was Jimmy Jimmy Branson complained.

对吧？

Right?

那么，到底有没有警方调查？

Well, is there I mean, is there a police inquiry?

直到今天宣布之前，没人知道这件事。

Nobody knew about this until this was announced.

这起投诉 apparently 是两年前提交的。

The complaint was apparently was put in two years ago.

我的意思是，我对这件事的背景并不了解。

I mean, I don't know the background to this.

我并没有和任何人专门谈过这件事，但我们可以这样看。

I haven't spoken to anyone in particular about it, but let's put it this way.

一般来说，PSNI 在收到投诉时，几乎从不会说：‘这纯属胡说八道，我们不予理会。’

In general, the PSNI is very rarely going to say on receiving a complaint, well, that's a load of nonsense, and we're going to ignore it.

他们必须走个过场，假装或声称已经归档并正在处理中。

They have to go through the motions of pretending or claiming that they filed it away, and it's all in process.

但显然，这件事根本没有任何进展，也不该有任何进展。

But clearly, nothing's nothing is going on with this nor should it.

风暴委员会的事不属于警方管辖范围。

The storming committees are not a police matter.

它们本就不该是警方的事。

They should not be a police matter.

有趣的是，不配合议会标准专员属于刑事犯罪，但就这些委员会而言，你应该把斯特蒙特视为一个私人俱乐部。

There is a criminal offence of not cooperating with the Assembly Standards Commissioner, interestingly, but as far as these committees are concerned, you should consider Stormont to be like a private members club.

这些是议会的成员。

These are members of the assembly.

这些委员会虽然有法律依据，但斯特蒙特议会本身决定如何运作以及制定规则。

These committees, although they have a legal basis, the Stormont assembly itself decides how to run, decides the rules.

它们本质上就像一个高尔夫俱乐部。

They're they're they're they're like a golf club, basically.

因为一点争执就叫警察来，这太荒谬了。

And to call in the police because you've had an argument over it is ridiculous.

我们曾见过关于杰米·布赖森和新芬党就NAMA委员会引发的案件，最终导致了一项起诉，但那显然失败了，因为这太荒唐了。

We saw that with the case that was brought over Jamie Bryson and Sinn Fein over the the the NAMA Committee that led to a prosecution that that, of course, collapsed because it was ludicrous.

如果确实是由布赖森先生提出这项投诉，而他又一次叫来了警察，这真是莫大的讽刺。

And, and there is a great irony if it is indeed mister Bryson who's made this complaint in him bringing the police in again.

他此前曾强烈批评（而且是完全有道理地）警察介入上一次事件。

He was very critical and rightly so of the police being involved last time.

好的。

Okay.

听好了。

Listen.

非常感谢。

Thank you very much indeed.

早上好。

Morning to you.

早上好，杰里，还有你，艾玛。

Morning to you, Jerry, and to you, Emma.

今天早上拨打的号码是0303080，5555。

0303080, 5555 is the number, to call this morning.

明白了。

Right.

接下来是NAMA。

Nama next.

经过四个月的审判和三天的审议，贝尔法斯特商人弗兰克·库希农被裁定无罪，指控其犯有欺诈罪。

After a four month trial, three days of deliberations, Belfast businessman Frank Cushionen has been found not guilty of fraud.

在贝尔法斯特王室法院昨日作出裁决后，公共检察署为其决定起诉84岁的库希纳汉先生进行了辩护。

Following yesterday's verdict at Belfast Crown Court, the public prosecution service defended its decision to prosecute 84 year old mister Cushnahan.

他被指控与其在国家资产管理机构（简称NAMA）担任顾问期间的行为有关，该机构于2009年房地产崩盘后成立。

He had been charged in relation to his role as an adviser to the National Asset Management Agency known as NAMA, which was set up in 2009 after the property crash.

他否认了2013年因未披露信息而构成欺诈的指控。

He denied a charge of fraud by failure to disclose information in 2013.

我们的记者马克·辛普森全程报道了此案，直至昨日结束。

Our correspondent, Mark Simpson, had covered the court case from start until it concluded yesterday.

早上好，马克。

Morning to you, Mark.

早上好，史蒂文。

Morning, Steven.

早上好。

Good morning.

那么现在情况如何？

So where's this at then?

嗯，这算是

Well, this was one of

贝尔法斯特历史上最长的陪审团审判之一。

the longest jury trials in the history of Belfast.

它始于九月。

It began in September.

结束于二月。

It ended in February.

昨天晚上，公共检察署（PPS）发布了一份长篇声明，为他们提起此案的决定进行辩护。

The PPS, the Public Prosecution Service, put out a lengthy statement last night defending their decision to take the case.

他们表示，所有决定都是独立且公正地做出的。

They said all decisions were taken in terms of being made independently and impartially.

不过，他们也表示尊重陪审团的裁决。

They did say, though, also that they respected the jury's decision.

陪审团的决定，他们的裁决是在昨天下午大约2:30作出的。

The jury's decision, their verdict came at around 02:30 yesterday afternoon.

这并非一致通过，但至少有12名陪审员中的10人同意。

It wasn't unanimous, but it was agreed by at least 10 of the 12 jurors.

还有，公诉机关在为他们最初决定提起公诉进行辩护。

And the the PPS, they're defending, their decision to prosecute in the first place.

他们已经承认并接受了这一裁决，显然，马克。

They've acknowledged and accepted the verdict, obviously, Mark.

是的。

Yeah.

公诉机关指出，法官本可以在审判中途终止此案，但她认为有足够的证据继续审理，并让陪审团根据证据的强度作出决定。

The PPS pointed out that the judge could have stopped this trial halfway through, but she felt there was enough evidence to keep going and let the jury decide on the strength of that evidence.

事情就是这样发生的。

That's what happened.

现在，辩护方的法律团队在去年12月申请驳回此案，但法官拒绝了这一申请。

Now the defense's legal team applied for the case to be thrown out effectively in December, but the judge rejected that application.

当时我们被禁止报道这件事，但现在可以了。

We weren't allowed to report that at the time, but we can now.

好的。

Okay.

马克，谢谢你。

Mark, thank you.

早上好。

Morning to you.

巴姆布里奇的彼得斯。

Peters in Bambridge.

早上好，彼得。

Morning, Peter.

你好。

Hello.

是的，史蒂文。

Yes, Steven.

你最近怎么样？

How are you doing?

早上好。

Good morning.

请说吧，先生。

Go ahead, sir.

每天都要安排节目。

Program every day.

能参与进来真好。

It's nice to get on.

他们能用我的声音说话，听到我的声音，但我听不到。

They can speak in my voice, hear my voice, I can't hear it.

没关系。

That's alright.

但不是那些话本身有什么意义。

But, no, it's not the words that means anything.

是语气的问题。

It's the tone.

你从未回放过。

You've never played it back.

但如果你要回放，保罗·格里芬关于分享权力的说法，那些话本身并不冒犯。

But if you had to play it back, what Paul Griffin said about sharing power, the words were not offensive.

但语气非常冒犯。

The tone was very offensive.

谁？

Who?

我正在和阿蒙斯分享权力。

I'm sharing power with Ammons.

就是我们，我。

That's us, me.

就是我们，我。

That's us, me.

对。

Right.

你现在说的是谁？

Who are you talking about now?

抱歉。

Sorry.

保罗·吉本。

Paul Gibbon.

你在圣诞节前采访过他。

You interviewed him away before Christmas.

之后就再也没有播出了。

It hasn't been on since.

你从未采访过他关于他花在出租车上的那笔巨款。

You never interviewed him about all that big money he spent on taxis.

不知为何，他之后再也没有上过节目，但我听到了自己的声音。

He never was on air since for some reason, but I hear my own voice there.

我不

I don't

知道为什么。

know why.

是的。

Yes.

那是因为你把收音机放在背景里。

That's because you've got the radio on the background.

我们稍后回来找你，彼得。

We'll come back to you, Peter.

乔治·班格。

George Mbanger.

早上好，乔治。

Morning, George.

早上好，史蒂文。

Morning, Steven.

你怎么样？

How are you?

请说吧，先生。

Go ahead, sir.

我只是在听这场关于制裁的非常非常好的辩论，你们必须把所有党派政治都排除在外。

Just I'm listening to this very, very good debate regarding the the the sanctions, and and you have to take all the party politics out of it.

而且你们得问问自己，这一切究竟从何而来？

And and you have to ask yourself, where where is this all coming from?

我的意思是，如果我在电话里对你发火，变得气喘吁吁，你对我说‘乔治，深呼吸一下’并不会冒犯到我。

I mean, if I start to get irate with you on the phone and and start getting myself all hyperventilated, It's it wouldn't be offensive for you to say, listen, George, take a breath.

深呼吸。

Take a breath.

慢一点。

Slow down.

让我好好听清楚你在说什么。

Let me hear properly what you're saying.

现在，我并不是说这话是那样说的，但当时气氛非常激烈。我想问的是，如果换成保罗·布拉德肖被这样对待，会不会被认为同样具有冒犯性？还是说，因为对方是女性，所以才显得居高临下？

Now, I'm not saying it was said that way, but it was a very And heated and the question I'd like to ask is, if that had it been Paul Bradshaw had it made that had it been been spoken to like that, would it have been as offensive or were talking down about because he was talking to a lady?

你怎么看？

What do you think?

我想说的是，今天早上伯罗斯被要求闭嘴。

Well, I I'm thinking that there's Burrows was told to shut up this morning.

那么，他会不会反过来采取行动，要求以同样的方式处理这件事？

So is he gonna turn around and and take an action and and ask for it to be to be dealt with as this in the same way?

我会被处以两天的处罚。

I'm gonna get a two day sanction.

人们是怎么回事？当你在电话里和人交谈时，有些人会过于激动，偏离主题，开始大喊大叫。

How do people get people get you have people on your phone who get overzealous when they're talking, and they go off track, they start ranting and raving.

你觉得帕特·希恩让伯罗斯闭嘴合适吗？

You think it was do you think it was appropriate for Pat Sheen to tell Burroughs to shut up?

我认为用‘闭嘴’这种语言是不合适的。

I I I don't I don't think it's appropriate to use that language to say shut up.

不，不是我这部分。

Not not not in a part of my.

议员们会坐下来安静吗？

Would the would the members sit down and be quiet?

不会。

No.

不会。

No.

他今天在《早安阿尔斯特》节目中说的。

He said it during Gamoo during Good Morning Ulster today.

是的。

Yes.

我知道。

I know.

但他不应该说这样的话。

But it's it's it's he shouldn't be saying things like that.

但我想说的是，深呼吸一下。

But what I'm saying is take a breath.

我的意思是，如果那是我，我认为布拉德肖在那场委员会辩论中完全应付不来。

If if I what I'm trying to say to you is if if that had it been I think I think Bradshaw was just out of her depths with that whole committee debate.

我不知道她本人、政党或其他人是否决定采取行动。

And I don't know whether she or the party or somebody has decided to take an action.

主持那次会议时，我认为并没有采取任何行动。

Charing that meeting, I don't think an action has been taken.

最后应该有人站出来说：等等。

There should count at the end of it and said, wait.

不该摆出一副大人物的姿态。

Shouldn't have said play big man.

谢谢你能站出来。

Thanks for coming forward.

事情解决了。

Matter resolved.

因为这件事被处以两天的处罚。

Two days sanction for that.

这事儿会到哪里才算完？

Where's it gonna end?

当然，决定给予两天处罚的并不是保拉·布拉德肖。

Well, it wasn't Paula Bradshaw, of course, who determined that there should be a two day sanction.

这件事被交给了一个独立的标准委员会，由该委员会自行作出决定。

The matter was handed to an independent standards committee who determined who did the independent standards committee decides for herself.

这正是关键所在。

That's the whole point.

所以保拉·布拉德肖并没有提出投诉？

So Paula Bradshaw didn't make a complaint?

我不知道是谁提出了投诉，但作出决定的是独立标准专员。

Well, I don't know who made a complaint, but the determination the determination was made by the independent standards commissioner.

这才是重点。

That's the point.

我的理解是，要做出决定，必须先有投诉。

My understanding is for determination to be made, there has to be a complaint.

你不能毫无理由地做出决定。

You can't just make a determination for no reason.

必须有人提出投诉。

Somebody has to make a complaint.

你可以辩称，这次投诉至少是有依据的，因为专员发现确实违反了行为准则。

Well, you could argue that the complaint was was at least warranted because the commissioner found that there had been a breach of the code.

这一点说错了。

Lost point.

如果当时发了邮件，会不会构成违反行为准则？

If there had been a mail, would there have been a breach of the code?

如果你当时在和我交谈，会不会构成违反行为准则？

If you'd have been speaking to me, would there have been a breach of the code?

太过敏感了。

Very, very oversensitive.

好的。

Okay.

乔治，非常感谢。

George, thank you very much.

很抱歉信号中断了。

We're sorry about the the signal breaking up.

我们的其中一条电话线路出了问题，我们会尽力修复。

We've got a problem on one of our phone lines, so we'll we'll try to fix that.

吉姆和阿马格。

Jim and Armagh.

早上好，吉姆。

Morning, Jim.

早上好，史蒂文。

Good morning, Steven.

你怎么样

How are

你怎么样？

you doing?

请说吧，先生。

Go ahead, sir.

乔，我想说一下。

Joe, would just say this.

我想强调一点，当我们讨论这个问题时，言论以及我们能说什么、不能说什么，正是我们民主的核心。

I would just make this point that that while we're talking about this, and it is an interesting conversation because speech and what we can and cannot say is at the heart of our democracy.

因此，这是一个相关且重要的辩论。

So it is a pertinent, relevant debate.

但还有很多其他问题需要讨论，对吧？

But there are lots of other issues to get on and talk about, aren't they?

确实有。

There is.

这是对的。

It's it's right.

有很多事情值得讨论。

There's plenty of things to be talking about.

我真的不在乎这些人是否彼此友好。

I I really don't care if these guys are nice to each other or not.

我不在乎，因为我开的车已经跑了6万公里，而它的悬挂系统本应适用于12万公里的车，因为我一直在糟糕的道路上行驶。

I don't care because I'm driving about my car with 60,000 miles out as a suspension of a car of a 120,000 miles because I'm driving on rubbish roads.

太糟糕了。

Rubbish.

我每天开车60英里，走的都是烂路，却没看到有一个人出来修补坑洞。

And I have driven 60 miles a day over rubbish roads, and I haven't seen one person out fixing a hole.

一个都没有。

Not one.

这才是他的问题，史蒂文。

And that's his problem, Steven.

但他们却很乐意伸手要道路税。

But they are perfectly willing to stick out their paw for the road tax.

他们很乐意从你身上榨取每一分税款，包括所得税。

They're happy enough to take every bit of tax off you can get, pay income tax.

如果你去申请汽车赔偿，他们会想尽一切办法阻止你获得赔偿。

If you go to get a claim for your car, they'll do everything they can to stop you from getting it.

我看不出有任何改善的迹象。

I don't see anything happening.

我昨天跟一个道路承包商聊了聊。

What I the way I I was talking to a roads contractor yesterday.

他直截了当地告诉我。

He told me out straight.

他说，要把北爱尔兰的道路恢复到十年前的水平，需要十年时间。

He says it'll take ten years, he says, to put the roads in Northern Ireland into the same shape as the war ten years ago.

情况糟糕到这种地步。

That's how bad it is.

我们生活在一个第三世界国家。

And we are living in a third world country.

这个地方的问题很可能出在道路和市场上。

This place was It's probably about the roads and market issue.

这些才是影响人们生活的关键问题，史蒂文。

And that's the things that affect people, Steven.

人们走路时，没法把车停在身边，因为路上到处都是坑洼，根本没人在乎。

As people are going to walk, they can't keep the car and can't keep the car on them because they're they're it's been racked on the roads, there's nobody gives a damn.

他们坐在上面，说这个人告诉我什么，那个人又告诉我什么。

And they're sitting up there, oh, he said this to me, and she said that to me.

我才不在乎呢。

I don't care.

把他们全部停职，赶去修路，先把道路修好。

Suspend the whole lot of them and put them out on the road and get their roads fixed.

这才是他们应该做的。

That's what they should be doing.

我拿把长柄铲去把路上的一个坑填上，因为这才是老百姓真正关心的事。

I put a long tail shovel and get a hole fixed somewhere because that's the thing that matters to people.

他们正从口袋里往外掏钱。

They're spotting money out of their pockets.

我为一个人开车。

I'm driving for a man.

他连我开的这辆卡车的扩展都维持不了。

He can't even keep the expansion on this lorry that I'm driving in.

这已经是一笔巨额财富了。

It's already a clean fortune.

试图修路。

Trying to fix the roads.

弹簧断裂、轮胎爆裂、道路破损。

It's broken springs, bursted tires, broken alleys.

没人关心。

Nobody gives it on.

我才不在乎他们是不是卖好吃的披萨。

I don't care about I don't care if they're nice pizza.

我根本不关心。

I don't really care.

我希望他们下车去做点什么。

I want them to get out and do something.

否则我就不再交道路税了。

And give me my or else or else I'm not giving them no more road tax.

给我退款。

Give me a refund.

我要去买一艘气垫船之类的东西。

I'll go on I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll buy a hovercraft or something.

真是丢人至极。

So absolute disgrace.

今天早上有人在讨论伤感情和伤人的话。

There's a stupid conversation this morning about hurt feelings and hurting words.

没人关心那些。

Nobody cares about that.

人们正在这个国家努力谋生。

People are trying to make a living in this country.

我正努力往前走。

I'm trying to get on.

我努力让他们家里保持温暖，但他们做不到。

I'm trying to keep heat in their house, and they can't do it.

他们做不到，因为他们无法上路去上班，接下来他们可能三四个人挤在一起，路上坑洼不平，道路破损。

Can't do it because they can't get down the road to work because the next thing they're sitting three or four of them maybe in a line with busted waves and busted alleys.

是的。

Yeah.

这正好和罗森和莎拉的情况相反。

That was exactly the case opposite Rosen and Sarah.

周六晚上没人。

Nobody on Saturday night.

你得亲眼看看。

You need to see it.

没人关心，史蒂文。

Nobody cares, Steven.

没人关心他们是不是好人。

Nobody cares if they're nice people or not.

继续做生意吧，或者就别再纠缠这些内容了。

Get on with the business or run on this content.

别再给人们添麻烦了。

Get off the people's backs.

哦，我的领子掉了。

Oh, my collar's away.

嗯，他今天早上说这些话时确实是发自内心的。

Well, he said it, very much from his heart there this morning.

你告诉我你的想法。

You let me know what you think.

今天早上打电话的号码是03030805555。

03030805555 is the number to call this morning.

这是BBC的诺兰节目，现在马上播出上午10点的新闻。

It's a Nolan show from the BBC, and the 10:00 news is coming up right now.

大家早上好。

Good morning, everyone.

感谢大家今天参与。

Thank you for joining us today.

我们几个月来一直在讨论的关于接送特殊需求儿童上学的费用问题，教育部门未来仍将至少花费3900万英镑，用于明年特殊需求儿童的校车交通费用。

This story that we've been talking about for months now about how much it's costing, to transport children with special needs to school, the education authority will still spend at least £39,000,000 going forward, and it's at least that over the next year on taxi fares for school transport for children with special needs.

所以有些人看到标题说，通过自愿减价，出租车运营商节省了900美元，他们节省了900美元——你们还记得吧，去年12月他们给所有这些运营商写信，要求将费率降低10%。我们来算一下：如果他们原本花费4000万英镑，要求减少10%，那就是400万英镑，但他们并没有实现这个数额。

So some people are reading the headline they're saving $900 in voluntary reductions from taxi operators, they're saving $900, they wrote to all of these operators in December if you remember, asking them to reduce their rates by 10%, well work out the maths, If they were spending 40,000,000 and they said, we're going to make you take a 10% cut, 10% to 40,000,000 is 4,000,000, and they haven't got that.

显然，有些运营商拒绝了这10%的降价要求。

So obviously, some of these operators have refused to take the 10% cut.

显然，有少数——也许是几个——我们不知道具体有多少运营商已经退回了这90万英镑。

Obviously there have been what a couple or a handful, we don't know how many operators have handed back this £900,000.

我其实听到一点风声，说有一家运营商单独退回了50万英镑，这样一来，其他人还能剩多少空间呢？

I actually heard a wee whisper that one operator had handed half 1,000,000 back alone, doesn't really leave much room for others does it?