When Breath Becomes Air - Part 1

所以

So

是的

Yeah.

这对我来说很难。

This is hard for me.

我们不能只是平衡一下，对吧？

Like, can't we just balance and, like Right.

稍微旅行一下，再学习一下？

Travel a little bit and study?

因为，这其实取决于个人。

Because, like, I don't I also it depends on the person.

比如，如果我醒来就知道自己想当一名科学家，我可能就不会出国旅行。

Like, if I woke up and I knew I wanted to be an like, a scientist, I probably wouldn't travel abroad.

我会一直学习、学习、再学习。

I would have studied and studied and studied.

但如果你不知道自己未来想从事什么职业，就像我一样，我也不知道自己想做什么，于是随便选了个专业。

But if I didn't know what I wanted to do for my career, kind of like me, I didn't know what I wanted to do, and I kind of picked a random major.

我虽然学习了，但很幸运的是，我也有很多机会出国旅行。

And I studied, but I was fortunate that I got to travel abroad a lot too.

所以我有机会体验了其他文化，我认为这极大地拓宽了我对世界的看法，而这在任何职业中都至关重要。

And so I got to experience other cultures that I think enhanced my perspective on the world, which is super important in any career.

所以我不确定。

So I don't know.

这很难。

This is hard.

我们不能同时做这两件事吗？

Can't we just, like, do both?

是的。

Yeah.

我们可以。

We can.

是的。

Yeah.

不过我认为，对于医生来说，课堂学习体验非常重要。

I think especially for doctors though that in classroom learning experience is important.

我刚想到这一点，但我想这大概就是为什么要有住院医师培训的原因，因为你确实需要积累经验。

That just a thought that came to my mind but I guess that's the reason why there's a residency too because you do have to get experience.

我不知道。

I don't know.

我想我们都没人了解医学培训。

I guess none of us know about medical training.

如果能请一位医生、护士，或者相关人士来给我们一些这方面的见解，那就太好了。

It'd be great to have a doctor on or nurse or someone that would give us some insight into that actually.

是的。

Yeah.

我们打算在下一期邀请一位嘉宾。

We're gonna try and have someone on for the next one.

那太棒了。

That'd be cool.

他们现在有点忙。

They're a little busy right now.

什么？

What?

太疯狂了。

That's crazy.

事情真多。

Everything going on.

但没错，他在书里也提到过类似的事情，莎拉。

But, yeah, he even mentioned something like that in the book, Sarah.

他谈到，显然，阅读这些医学术语和在手术室里突然要动手做这些你只在书上读过却从未实际操作过的事情是完全不同的，当你的大脑知道该怎么做，但你的手却还不知道时，这种差别有多大。

He talks about how, obviously, reading about all these medical terms is different when you're in an operating room and you're having to all of a sudden do all these crazy things that you've read about, but you've never actually done them with your hands and how different it is to get your hands to do it when your brain knows.

是的。

Yeah.

这一定是史上最可怕的事情了。

That's gotta be, like, the scariest thing ever.

即使他只是谈到心肺复苏，练习在假人身上和真实情况也截然不同。

Well, even when he's talking about just CPR alone, how different it is practicing on a mannequin.

他说第一次的时候有点像开玩笑，我在工作中也遇到过类似的情况，那是培训，但你知道，有点随意。

And he said the first time it was kind of a joke, and I've been in situations like that at work where it's a training, but, you know, it's kind of whimsical.

大家都笑个不停。

Everybody's laughing.

但如果真有人突然倒地，那种即将实施心肺复苏的期待感，完全是另一种体验。

But in the event that someone were to drop to the floor, you know, that anticipation of performing CPR is a much different, experience.

我猜也是。

I bet.

有人以前做过心肺复苏吗？

Has anybody given CPR before?

没有。

No.

没有，我也没做过。

No, I haven't either.

只是经常看到老师戴着那种小小的CPR防护罩。

Just used to see teachers walk around with those little CPR covers.

没有，我哥哥有一次自己用了海姆立克急救法。

No, my brother Heimliched himself one time.

什么？

What?

那算是我最接近的一次了。

That's the closest I got.

他当时是窒息了吗？

Was he choking?

是的。

Yeah.

他当时窒息了，然后，真的挺好的。

He was choking and, like, literally Good.

天哪。

Oh my gosh.

哇。

Wow.

挺过来了。

Came through.

我喜欢这个。

I love it.

是的。

Yeah.

这是一项特殊技能。

That's a special skill.

我知道。

I know.

你知道的，亚伦是个爱开玩笑的人，当他这么做时，我们都以为他在逗我们。

You know, Aaron is such a jokester that when he did it, we thought he was joking.

我们没想到他真的是在开玩笑。

We didn't think he was really joking.

当他开始用力拍打自己的肚子时，我心想：糟了。

And so when he started, like, pounding on his stomach, I was like, shit.

这真的是认真的。

Like, this is real.

天哪。

Oh, no.

这说明我从未真正对任何人做过心肺复苏。

That says I have never actually done CPR to anyone.

但说实话，你有一天是在假人身上练习，第二天就真的在别人的胸口和肋骨上进行抢救。

But yeah, like, you you're performing on like a mannequin one day, and then you're actually performing on someone's heart and chest and bones.

这真的是一种难以置信的经历——你学习了这么多年，突然间就真正上手了。

And that just has to be so un like, such an unreal experience of, like, studying for years and years and years, and then all of a sudden, you're doing it.

该上场了。

It's go time.

是的

Yeah.

该上场了

It's go time.

我们一开始聊 podcast 的时候，就谈到了医生保罗有多棒

Well, we kind of started off the podcast by talking about how awesome a Doctor.

如果我们得了绝症，我们希望保罗是我们的医生

Paul is and that if we want, if we had a terminal illness, we would want Paul to be our doctor.

但在他职业生涯初期，他确实有点不成熟、年轻，一度只是想着打卡上下班，吃点冰淇淋三明治

But at the beginning of his career, he definitely was a little immature and young and kind of did think about clocking in and out and getting his ice cream sandwiches.

这会对你造成很大的压力

And it takes a toll on you.

经历了那么多——他说他第一年就经历了太多死亡

After so many I mean, he said he had so many deaths his first year.

他在书里列出了所有这些案例，就是为了说明：这就是我亲眼目睹逝去的人数

He listed them all out in the book to make a point that like, this is how many people I saw pass away.

于是他渐渐陷入了一种模式：赶紧完成几个步骤，把病人打发走，我得准时下班。

And so he kind of got in this flow of like, let's check some boxes, get these patients out the door, I need to clock out.

然后他讲到一个21岁的小伙子遭遇了摩托车事故，进来时甚至有人说他的大脑正从鼻子里往外冒。

And then he talks about a 21 year old guy got in a motorcycle accident, and he comes in with they even say that his brain is coming out of his nose.

而当时他正在吃午餐休息。

And he was at a lunch break.

他手里还拿着一个冰淇淋三明治。

He had his ice cream sandwich.

他冲过去，把冰淇淋三明治放在电脑后面，尽一切努力试图救这个孩子，但孩子最终还是去世了。

He ran over, put his ice cream sandwich behind the computer, did everything he could do to try and save the kid, and the kid ended up dying.

之后他走过去，拿起那个冰淇淋三明治，像冻住了一样，把它吃掉了。

He then walked over, got his ice cream sandwich, like froze it again, ate it.

他一边从牙缝里挑出巧克力豆，一边看着这家人向这个21、22岁的男孩做最后的告别。

He was picking out the chocolate chips out of his teeth and he was watching the family say their last goodbyes to this 21, 22 year old boy.

他当时曾短暂地疑惑过，作为一名医生，他的原话就在第84页。

And he had like a brief wonder, like as a physician, his actual quote, it's on page 84.

我曾想过，在我短暂的医生生涯中，是道德上的滑坡多于进步，还是相反？

I wondered if in my brief time as a physician, had made more moral slides than strides.

我的意思是，在我的书里，我忍不住想，我们人类整体上，是道德进步更多，还是滑坡更多呢？

And I mean, in my book, I like shut it like, oh my gosh, have we as people like made moral strides than slides or vice versa?

所以我想问问大家，你们的生命中是否发生过什么事——也许是改变人生的事件，也许不是，就像他只是在吃冰淇淋三明治时，突然有了这样的顿悟——让你们的道德观发生了转变？

And so my question for y'all is, has anything happened in your life, a life changing event, or maybe it's not a life changing event, like he was just eating an ice cream sandwich and this dawned on him, that your moral kind of shifted.

艾米丽，你刚才想说什么？

What were you going to say, Emily?

我只是想指出第85页末尾到第86页的内容。

Well, I just wanted to point out to just the end of page 85 onto 86.

他提到一位新确诊脑癌的女性。

He talks about a woman that came to him newly diagnosed with brain cancer.

她感到困惑、害怕，被不确定性淹没，而他则疲惫不堪、心不在焉。

She was confused, scared, overcome by uncertainty, and he was exhausted, disconnected.

我草草应付了她的提问，保证她的手术会成功，也说服自己没有足够时间公平地回答她所有问题。

I rushed through her questions, assured that her surgery would be a success, and assured myself there wasn't enough time to answer her questions fairly.

但我为什么没腾出时间呢？

But why didn't I make the time?

所以我觉得我能够理解这一点，在那一刻，我真的不知道。

So I think I relate to that in that in the moment, it's I don't know.

很难停下来，对他人保持同理心和耐心，而很容易只是随便应付一句，或者只是敷衍一下。

It's hard to stop yourself and be empathetic and patient with others, and it's easy to just kinda quit quip something quick or just Put

贴个创可贴了事。

a band aid on it.

是啊，或者干脆不花时间。

Yeah, or not take the time.

你知道吗，他说，但我为什么没腾出时间呢？

You know, he says, but why didn't I make the time?

也许那五分钟本可以改变你与对方的整个互动。

And it may be five minutes that could have changed that whole interaction you had with someone.

所以我正在努力回想一个具体事件，但很多小事情在事后回想时，我都意识到，我本可以花更多时间，更耐心、更有同理心一些。

So a lot of I'm trying to think of an an event, but a lot of the smaller events have just been in hindsight, I've realized, that I could have taken more time and been more patient and empathetic.

是的。

Yeah.

我确实如此。

I do

我觉得这是一样的。

I think that's, like, same.

同意。

Agree.

我在想更大的规模。

I'm thinking of, like, larger scales.

总是那些特别糟糕的时刻，比如9:11事件或校园枪击案，它们会让你停下来，重新变得有人性，与全人类重新对齐。

It's always really terrible moments, like 09:11 or a school shooting where it makes you, like, stop and, like, become human again and, like, level set with, like, all humanity.

很遗憾，这些才是能真正引起你注意、让你停下来的提醒。

And it's just unfortunate that those are the types of reminders that, like, really catch your attention and make you stop.

是的。

Yeah.

我完全同意，布里。

I completely agree, Brie.

比如我们正在经历的这场疫情，确实改变了我如何安排时间、如何重视他人的时间，让我放下手机，真正尝试建立亲密的联系，因为这本书让我明白，死亡随时可能发生，你不知道它何时到来。

Like, even the pandemic that we're in definitely has shifted how I'm gonna start spending my time, how I'm going to value other people's time and get off my phone and, like, really try and have intimate connection because this book, like, just like death happens and you don't know when.

但我有两个时刻，我的价值观会有所转变。

But I have two things of when my morals kinda shift.

当坏事发生时，就像你说的，布里，我在大学时有一位最好的朋友去世了，这真的彻底改变了我对事物的看法。

When bad things happen, like you said, Brie, like, I've had a best friend pass away in college, and that kind of, like, really shifted my view on things.

哇哦。

Like, wow.

每一天都是礼物，这真的很重要。

Like, day really is a gift, and that was really big.

但显然，时间会冲淡一切，你会重新陷入社会的忙碌中，渐渐失去那种在可怕事件发生时曾感受到的触动。

And then but obviously, time fades and you go back to the hustle and bustle of society and you lose grip on that feeling that you had when that awful thing happened.

每当我感受到心中那一点微弱的火焰时，它总会微微燃烧。

And whenever I feel that, like, the little fire in my heart, it always burns a little bit.

但当它变得非常非常暗淡，然后再次亮起时，往往是一些微小的事情。

But when it, like, gets really, really dim and it lights up again or lights up again, is when it's like really little things.

比如前几天在Trader Joe's，收银员和我有了一次眼神交流，他非常认真地听我说的每一句话。

Like, the other day at Trader Joe's, the cashier just, like, eye contact with me, and he was so invested in my what I was saying out of my mouth.

他还问了一些非常有意义的问题。

And he was asking, like, very meaningful questions.

比如，如果不用考虑钱，你理想的工作是什么？

Like, if it wasn't for money, what would be your dream job?

整个过程中，他一直盯着我，仿佛在扫描，但又充满兴趣地想知道我的理想工作是什么。

And the whole time, he's just looking at me like ding, ding, like scanning, but so interested to hear what my dream job would be.

我离开那里时心里想：哇。

And I walked away from that like, wow.

我凭什么不能和陌生人，完全的陌生人，进行这样有意义的对话呢？

Like, who am I to not have those types of meaningful conversations with strangers, like complete stranger?

这类互动就像重新点燃了心中的火焰，让我意识到：我需要真正地与人建立连接，而不是过这种忙忙碌碌的生活。

And those kind of interactions like light the fire again, where I'm like, I need to connect, like, truly with people and not have this hustle and bustle, like, life.

太空虚了。

It's so empty.

我想我们以前也讨论过比特币这件事。

And I think we've even talked about this before with btc.

我的意思是，友谊总体上需要付出努力，你得深入挖掘，提出问题，超越寒暄。

I mean, friendships in general take effort, and you have to dig deep to ask questions and go deeper than small talk.

所以，这关乎关心，以及克服向陌生人提出那种问题时的不适感。

So it is about caring and pushing through the, you know, uncomfortable situation of asking a stranger that question.

是的。

Yeah.

那对他来说可能很不舒服，但正如他所说，他愿意花时间陪你，而你认真回应，而不是敷衍了事地继续过日子，这意义重大。

That that that may have been uncomfortable for him, but for him to, like he said, invest that time with you and for you to respond and not just flippantly go about your day, you know, that means a lot.

是的。

Yeah.

我同意。

I agree.

他甚至提到保罗回想起他父亲在医学领域的事，说他父亲建立了这些人性化的联系。

He even Paul even goes back and talks about his dad in medicine and how his dad, formed these human connections.

他还讲了一个故事，说他父亲的一位病人术后想吃龙虾和牛排，于是他父亲就特意为病人叫来了龙虾和牛排。

He even tells a story about how his dad's patient wanted lobster and steak after surgery and he called for lobster and steak.

保罗说，他父亲所建立的这些简单而人性化的联系，以及他对病人培养的信任，深深激励了我。

And Paul says, the easy human connections he formed, the trust he instilled in his patients was an inspiration to me.

我知道我们都不是医生。

And I know we're not all doctors.

我的听众大概也能看出我们不是医生，但即便如此，我们依然可以通过对朋友、陌生人或家人的真诚陪伴，给予他们同样的深刻影响，让他们相信我们可以依靠。

I mean, our listeners can probably tell we're not doctors, but we can still have that same, like, profound effect on people that, like, our friends or strangers or family members know that they can trust in us by how present we are with them.

而且，是的，我被这个故事深深打动了。

And, yeah, I was really moved by that.

我非常喜欢这一点。

I love that.

是的。

Yeah.

然后，保罗就开始改变他成为医生的方式。

And then that's kind of when Paul starts changing the way he becomes a doctor.

他甚至谈到了他的下一位病人。

He even talks about his kind of his next patient.

她是一位35岁的女性，保罗需要为她做手术，这是他第一次决定在把她当作一个完整的人，而不仅仅是一个待解决的问题的环境中与她见面。

She was a 35 year old and he had to perform surgery and it was for the first time he had decided to meet her in a space where she was a person instead of a problem to be solved.

我甚至在书里一开始就提到这一点，因为我在这方面真的很差。

And I like literally start it in my book because I am so bad about this.

尤其是涉及比特币的时候，很多人来找我寻求建议。

Like especially with btc and starting btc, a lot of people come to me for advice.

我总是想着，我该怎么策略性地帮他们解决这个问题？

And I always think like, oh, how can I strategically solve this problem for them?

但实际上，他们只是想被倾听。

When it's like, they just want to be heard.

我不需要为他们强加任何积极的解读。

And like, I don't need to silver line anything for them.

我只需要在这里倾听。

I can just be here and listen.

说得太对了。

That's so right.

说得真好。

That like, well said.

这简直就像当头一棒。

It's, like, very, like, kick in the butt.

抱歉，各位。

Sorry, guys.

我们只是在聊天，确保大家思路一致。

We're all chatting too to make sure we're on the same page.

但是的，我很想听听听众们的想法。

But yeah, I'd like to hear from our listeners.

你们可以给我们发私信，或者在4月15日这个节目发布时，我们可能会在Instagram上发一个故事，让大家回答这个问题：有什么事情曾改变过你的视角？

You can DM us or we may even on April 15 when this comes out, post a Instagram story where you can fill in the question of how how has anything happened to you that shift your perspective?

我们非常想听听关于这一点，以及它如何改变了你的看法。

We would love to kind of hear about that and how it has shifted your perspective.

如果有人给我们发私信，我们可能在下一期播客中再次讨论这个问题，并分享一些我们收到的回答。

And if anybody DMs us, we may just, on the next podcast, come on here and talk about this question again and some of the answers we got.

哦，我喜欢这个想法。

Oh, I love that.

我迫不及待想听了。

I can't wait to hear.

我的意思是，我觉得这个范围太广了。

I mean, like, I feel like the spectrum's so large.

我很感兴趣。

I'm interested.

我知道。

I know.

不。

No.

好的。

Okay.

下一个问题是关于保罗的导师，我想你可以称他为V。

So the next question is about Paul's, I guess you could kind of call him mentor, V.

V是负责科学家实验室的人，保罗经常去那里，他说的那些专业术语太多，我根本装不出自己懂的样子。

So V is someone that runs the scientist lab that Paul goes in and I mean so many big words that I can't even act like I know.

但简单来说，保罗在研究大脑如何指挥手和腿的行动，他为V工作。

But basically Paul is playing around with the brain telling the hands and legs like what to do and he's working for V.

而且他还花了相当长的时间谈论V。

And he even talks about V for pretty a significant amount of time.

他在书中没有花这么长时间谈论他的病人或朋友，但他特意留出了一些篇幅来谈V，说V比他年长一些，非常致力于做好事、保持真诚，是个真正纯粹的人。

He doesn't talk about his patients or his friends for that long in the book, but he carves out some time to talk about V and he talks about how he's a little bit older than him and that he's just so committed to doing good and being authentic and that he's just a true, like, authentic person.

到目前为止，保罗很敬仰V。

And he kind of looks up to V at this point.

有一天，V来找保罗，让他戴上医生的帽子，说他有个消息要告诉保罗。

And V comes to him one day and basically tells Paul to put his doctor hat on that V has some news.

而V得了胰腺癌。

And it's that V has pancreatic cancer.

我现在看到第101页，大概在页面中间。

And I'm on page 101, probably like midway through the page.

但V说，保罗，他问：你觉得我的人生有意义吗？

But V says, Paul, he said, do you think my life has meaning?

我做出的选择是对的吗？

Did I make the right choices?

保罗感到非常震惊。

And Paul's kind of stunned.

什么？

Like, what?

就连一个拥有最高道德标准、始终身体力行的人，也会如此质疑自己的生命。

Like even someone that has the highest moral values and outlook and actually does it day after day is quite like questioning his mortality.

我的问题？其实我甚至都不知道自己有没有问题。

And my question, I don't even know if I had a question.

我被那一部分深深震撼了。

I was just like shook by that part.

但如果你突然得知自己生命有限，你会依然这样度过每一天吗？

But, oh, if you all of the sudden had learned you had a limited time to live, would you be spending your moments the same way?

如果不会，你会做出什么改变？

And if not, what would you change?

我会采取蒂姆·麦格劳的方式，直接去放手一搏。

Well, I would take the Tim McGraw approach and just go for it.

为什么不呢？

Why not?

从跳伞或攀岩开始？

Start with skydiving or rocking mountain climbing?

我的意思是，同一天内全部做完。

I mean, all in the same day.

不。

No.

不过说真的，我觉得我会活得更加无忧无虑一些。

Seriously, though, I think I would, like, live a lot more like carefree.

我这个人特别讲究、有条理，而且很注重流程。

I'm very like particular and orderly and process oriented.

我想，也许用‘希望’这个词来表达更合适。

And I think, I hope is probably the better way to say it.

我希望这一切都能抛到脑后，我能尽情享受每一件事，不再那么控制欲强。

I hope that all of that would just go out the window and I could just enjoy, like, everything and not be so controlling.

所以我觉得我会放手去做大事。

So I think I would go big.

我可能会去旅行。

I'd probably travel.

我一定会去看望家人，然后就踏上旅途。

I'd definitely see my family, and then I would just, like, hit the road.

你名单上有没有特别想去的地方？

Was there anywhere specifically on your list?

任何地方。

Everywhere.

是的。

Yeah.

一样。

Same.

到目前为止，我们实际上一直在寻找目的地。

So far right now, we're actually, like, have been on the the hunt.

我认为布宜诺斯艾利斯是我们下一个目的地。

I think Buenos Aires is our next stop.

我还没去过南美洲。

I've never done South America.

没有。

No.

阿根廷。

Argentina.

有趣。

Fun.

有趣。

Fun.

所以也许可以。

So maybe Yeah.

Maddie，你呢？

Maddie, what about yeah.

Maddie，你的旅行取消了吗？

Did your trip be canceled, Maddie?

那个旅行还进行吗？

Is that is that trip still on?

没有。

No.

旅行照常进行。

The trip is still on.

如果到那时疫情结束了，我们九月要去冰岛，但行程还是照常。

We're going to Iceland in September if this pandemic is over by then, but it's still on.

我们

We

买了慢慢停留的套餐。

bought staying slow.

抱歉。

Sorry.

不。

No.

你没事的。

You're fine.

我们买了旅行保险。

We bought trip insurance.

所以，如果行程被取消了，那就是取消了。

So, like, if it's canceled, it's canceled.

我们又不是会失去一切。

It's not like we lose everything.

但我们只能希望最好结果。

But we're just gonna hope for the best.

这是为亚历克斯的三十岁生日，他真的很想去。

It's for Alex's thirtieth, and he really wants to go.

所以我们只能继续祈祷，希望到那时疫情结束了。

So we're just gonna keep praying about it that this will be over by then.

我也希望如此。

I hope so.

布里，我其实不想打断你的话。

Brie, I didn't wanna cut off your thought actually.

你之前提到的名单上还有其他地方吗？

Were you was there anywhere else on that list?

你们计划去阿根廷吗？

You guys are going to Argentina, planning to get to Argentina?

我们只是在看看。

We're just exploring.

我们有点不敢轻易预订，因为过去几周我们一直在给每家航空公司打电话，试图取消我们已经订好的行程。

We're like a little gun shy to actually book just because we have been on the phone with every airline the last couple of weeks trying to cancel things we already had booked.

所以再做一次这样的事，想想就头疼。

And so the thought of doing that again.

但我也不确定。

But I don't know.

艾米莉，

Emily,

什么哪里

where what

你平时做什么？

do you do?

你是继续照常生活，还是生活方式不一样了？

Do you keep going as normal, or do you live differently?

所以，当你问这个问题时，我首先想到的并不是我想在这家公司里达到某个职位，你知道吗？

I so the the first thing I think of, like, when you ask that question is it's not about like, I want to be this position in this company, you know?

我想的是基本的事情，比如和我爱的人共度时光，多到户外活动，创造真正能带给我快乐的东西。

Like, I think about basics, like spending time with people I love, spending time outside, creating just things that truly bring me joy.

所以，我觉得我确实努力这样去做，大部分时间都这样过。

So, and I feel like I try to do that and spend most of my days that way.

但就像布里说的，我总是被琐事缠住，只能走出去，抬头看看云，提醒自己我们正生活在一颗旋转的星球上，时间会流逝，而我也不知道。

But I mean, like Brie said, I get so bogged down in the little things that I just have to go outside and look up at the clouds and just remember that we're on a spinning rock and time will and I don't know.

而且我真的经常在一些随机的时刻思考这个问题，到底什么才是最终真正重要的，你知道的。

And I mean, I thought about this a lot, just on random occasions, you know, what really matters, you know, at the end of it all.

没错。

True.

不。

No.

认真的，真正重要的是那些人际关系。

Seriously, it's those relationships.

正是这些独特的人类体验，当你一切结束时就再也无法拥有。

It's those uniquely human experiences that you can't have when it's all over.

艾米丽，我完全同意你的看法。

I totally agree with you there, Emily.

我不知道，我想我会选择过不一样的生活，但我也说不准。

I I don't know, I guess I would choose to live different, I don't know.

我真的不确定自己会不会做出不同的选择。

I really don't know that I would do things differently too.

而且在这段长时间待在室内的日子里，我也有时间好好思考这个问题。

And I've kinda had a minute to think about that with all this time indoors too.

我真的好想念外面的世界，想念去游泳，想念吃冰淇淋，想念去看电影，怀念这些感觉很好，但同时又让人难过。

Like, I really miss the outside world, I miss going swimming, I miss getting ice cream, I miss going to the movies and it feels good to miss it, but at the same time, it feels bad.

但我知道，整个过程中我都很享受。

I know though the whole time I I loved it.

我真正地活过。

I was living.

我当时要去听音乐，喝着梅斯卡尔玛格丽特，每一口都特别享受，还在牛仔竞技场上跳两步舞，我真的努力去享受每一个瞬间，而我还需要更加努力才行。

I was I was going to hear music and I was drinking mezcal margaritas and loving every drink and and I was two stepping at the rodeo and I really just I I try really hard to enjoy every moment too, and I just need to try that much more.

是的。

Yeah.

我不知道。

I don't know.

这个问题对我来说很难。

This is a hard one for me.

实际上，每当我面对这个问题，我都会用到这些对话卡片。

Actually, every this question, I have these conversation cards.

多亏了加比，h t x 三号领队。

Thanks to Gabby, h t x three leader.

她把这些卡片作为礼物送给我，我特别喜欢。

She sent them to me as a gift, and I absolutely love them.

大概一个月前，我抽到了这张卡片。

And probably like a month ago, I had this card.

如果我要改变生活中的一件事，那会是什么？我该如何每天付诸实践？

If there's anything I would change about my life, what would it be, and how am I gonna implement that daily?

我把这张卡片放在每天取Nespresso咖啡胶囊的地方，这样我每天都能看到它。

And I put it right where I pull my Nespresso coffee pods out every morning, and I see it.

位置非常好。

It's in a great spot.

是的。

Yep.

它Just微微露出来。

And it's just peeking out.

你正在过你想要的生活吗？

Are you living the life you want to live?

我对此想了很多。

And I thought about it a lot.

我想，如果真的有人告诉我，我只剩下几个月可活，我会删除我的Instagram。

I think if I really had if someone really told me I had a couple months to live, I would delete my Instagram.

我可能会买一部只有亲密朋友、家人和BTC女孩能联系的翻盖手机。

I probably would get a flip phone that only my close friends, family, btc girls had access to.

我不会再被那些琐事、各种通知和邮件搞得心烦意乱。

I wouldn't be getting blown up by little things, all the notifications and emails.

我真的会彻底逃离这一切。

Like, I literally would just completely escape that.

而且，我会努力进行更有意义的对话。

And, yeah, I would try and have more meaningful conversations.

我最常思考的是，我的人生留下了什么痕迹？

The biggest thing I think about is, like, what's my footprint?

我给谁的生活带来了积极的影响？

Like, how have I positively impacted someone's life?

我不知道这样说对不对，毕竟死的是我，但我希望知道我为更大的善做出了改变，无论是改变了一颗心，还是……谁知道呢？

And I don't know if that's the right thing to say because it's my I'm the one that's dying, but I wanna know that I made change for the greater good, whether that's one person's heart changed or, you know, who knows?

一千个人的心都因此改变了。

A thousand people's heart changed.

我只是想知道自己一直在朝着善良的方向努力。

I just wanna know that I was, like, working towards goodness.

所以，是的，我觉得我会变得有点不知所措。

So yeah, I think I would be like kind of I don't know.

我甚至可能想暂时无家可归，睡在帐篷里，远离所有这些干扰。

I might even wanna go homeless for a bit, sleep in a tent, like not have all this distraction.

只是去爱那些在我面前的人。

Just like love on the people that are in front of me.

嗯，你可以把‘影响他人’这一条划掉了，因为你通过创办BTC已经确实做到了。

Well, you can check that off your list about impacting others because you've definitely done that by starting btc and

创造了这个

creating this

为

space for

我们提供的空间。

us.

所以

So

你太棒了。

You're awesome.

但我的意思是，这个问题太深刻了。

But I mean, I this is such a deep question.

我鼓励大家，如果你们刚才提到有些事情你们会不一样地做，不妨在明天早上写日记，或者你们平时写日记的时候，花点时间想想如何真正落实这些改变。

I encourage y'all that, like, if there are things that y'all just said that y'all would do differently, kind of like taking some time out of tomorrow's morning when you're journaling or whenever you journal, kind of like looking at how you could actually implement some of that.

显然，我不能去买一个翻盖手机然后不查邮件。

Like, obviously, I can't get a flip phone and not check emails.

但我可以关闭通知。

But I could turn my notifications off.

有些事情是我可以做的。

There's things that I could do.

所以我鼓励大家，以及所有听到这些的人，如果你们也有想改变的事情，那就制定一个计划，真正尝试做一些不一样的事情。

So I encourage y'all and anyone listening that kind of has that thing that they would wanna do differently to make a plan and actually try and do things a little bit differently.

所以你知道，当你走到路的尽头时，你会感到自豪。

So you know that when you do get to the end of the road, you are proud.

好的。

Okay.

最后一个问题是。

Last question.

在第一部分的结尾，保罗得知他的朋友杰夫——他一起读完医学院和住院医师培训的伙伴——自杀了。

At the end of part one, Paul gets news that Jeff, his resident friend, that he's kind of gone through medical school with and residency with has killed himself.

而他实际上是在一位病人意外死亡、情况很糟糕之后自杀的。

And he actually killed himself after one of his patients died unexpectedly, like in a bad way.

于是他从楼顶跳下，结束了生命。

And so he jumped off the building and killed himself.

你对保罗如何处理并写下杰夫之死有什么看法？

And what are your thoughts on how Paul processed and wrote about Jeff's death?

对于我们的听众来说，这几乎是第一部分最后几页的内容。

And just for our listeners, this is like literally the last couple pages of part one.

就是这样，是的。

It's like, yeah.

就在这里。

Right here.

第113页。

A 113.

他接到了维多利亚的电话。

He gets a call from Victoria.

我觉得这一段真正深深触动了我，关于死亡是不可避免的。

I think this one, like, actually struck me the hardest and just around death is inevitable.

命运对你不利，而医生们只是试图延长生命。

The cards are stacked against you and doctors are just trying to like extend that.

这是任何人都无法逃避的事情。

And it's like one of those things that no one can escape.

因此，作为医生的他的视角，我觉得非常有意思。

And so his perspective as a doctor, I thought that was really interesting.

而且作为一个英语专业学生，我一开始就很关注他描述的与死亡共舞——我该说‘与死亡共舞’——以及他是如何看待它的，我觉得这真的非常引人深思，直击人心。

And also like just being an English major, I definitely came in and how he like described the dance of death, dance with death, I should say, and how he viewed it, I thought was really just interesting and really kind of hit you in the gut.

我想，没错，这正是事情的运作方式。

I'm like, yeah, that's exactly how this works.

我在书里记下了‘令人清醒’这个词，因为整个第一部分，尤其是当他谈到尸体时，光是这一点就足以让人震撼。

I wrote down the word sobering just in the book because this whole entire part one, I mean, whenever he's talking about the cadavers, I mean, that alone is just Yeah.

但这是真的，那毕竟是某人的祖母，而我们有一天也会变成这样，想想确实令人清醒。

But it is true, it's like that's someone's grandmother and that will be us one day, so it's just sobering to think about.

但他描述杰夫之死的方式，几乎没在文字中流露任何情感。

But the way he describes Jeff, his death, I mean, he barely brings any emotion into his writing.

他最多只是说：‘我多么渴望那天晚上能陪他一起走出医院的大门。’

He I mean, the most he says is, I wished desperately that I could have been walking with him out of the door of the hospital that evening.

但他没有——我不知道。

But he doesn't I don't know.

他并没有提供太多关于自己内心感受的洞察。

He doesn't provide much insight into what he was feeling.

是的

Yeah.

我完全同意。

I completely agree.

我发现他在讲述第一部分的其他故事时，流露出了更多情感。

I found it interesting that he provided more feelings about the other stories he told in part one.

但当他一位亲密朋友自杀时，那种情感是真实的，我不会说完全没有感情。

But then when a close friend of his committed suicide, there was real it was very, like I I wouldn't say no feelings.

它只是简单地呈现出来：就是这样。

It was just like, here it is.

这就是死亡。

This is death.

非常平淡、直接。

Like, it was very dry and straight.

所以

And so

这是一个有趣的观察。

That's an interesting observation.

我之前没把这一点联系起来。

I didn't put that together.

是的。

Yeah.

我以为会是这样，是的。

I thought that would yeah.

嗯，不是。

Well and No.

你请说。

Go ahead.

不。

No.

你先说。

You go.

不。

No.

我本来想说，这真的让人有了更清晰的认识。

I was gonna say that really does put it in perspective.

我在想，而且我还没读第二部分，但我在想，他会对自己的病情以怎样的态度坦然面对呢？

And I'm wondering if and I haven't read part two, but I'm wondering if, like, which type of will he be as matter of fact about, like, his own illness?

对。

Right.

这是否是在预示他作为一个人正在发生变化？

Like, is this foreshadowing how he he's changing as a person?

他是不是对自己变得麻木了？

Like, is he becoming numb to it himself?

我不说是麻木，但他的确是以一种非常平淡的态度在谈论这件事。

I wouldn't say numb, but all it's just like a matter of fact is how he kind of is talking.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我同意这一点。

I would agree with that.

因为重新读了一遍，我觉得他并不那么无情，马迪，如果你有更多想法的话告诉我。

Because reading it again, I don't think he's so heartless and Maddie, let me know if you have more thoughts.

因为当他说到‘我多么渴望那天晚上能陪着他走出医院大门’时，我完全能感同身受，因为第二天发生了可怕的事，而你比以往任何时候都更希望那一天从未发生过。

Because when he says I wish desperately that I could have been walking with him out the door of the hospital that evening, I can totally relate too because it's the next day, something terrible has happened the day before and you wish just harder than you'd ever wished that that day just never happened.

我也是这样理解这句话的，它充满了苦涩的失落感，那种尖锐而可怕的痛楚，这就是我的理解。

And that's the way that I was reading that sentence too, where it's just like this bitter loss, this terrible sharp feeling of horror and that's how I read it.

不过，另一件让我印象深刻的是最后一句话：‘你永远无法达到完美，但你可以相信一个你不断追求的渐近线。’

Another thing that did strike me though is the last line is you can't ever reach perfection, but you can believe in an asymptote toward which you are ceaselessly striving.

天哪。

Oh my.

好吧。

Okay.

艾米丽，这简直是神来之笔。

Talk about mic drop, Emily.

我心想，天啊，原来还有个渐近线。

I'm like, oh my, there is an asymptote.

我从来都没有真正思考过这一点。

And I never really think about it.

因为要继续生活下去，你真的不能总想着那一天。

Because to continue living, you can't really think about that day.

但我深受触动。

But I am struck.

是的。

Yeah.

他的文字真是与众不同。

His writing is something else.

太美了。

Haven't Beautiful.

真是太美了。

It's so beautiful.

我从未被真正的某种东西打动过，这很难形容。

I have not been moved by actual like, I it's so weird to describe.

我从未读过这样的书。

I've never read a book like it.

每一个词都很重要。

Like, single word matters.

确实如此。

It does.

它几乎有一种魔力。

And it it almost has a magical quality to it.

我实在说不清楚。

I can't really describe it.

是的。

Yeah.

这真的太神奇了。

It really is amazing.

但他以那句话结束第一部分，这一点非常有趣。

But the fact that he does end his part one by saying that line is very interesting.

关键是，你要知道牌面已经不利，你注定会输，你的判断或手可能会失误，但依然要为你的病人奋力争取胜利。

Like, the secret is to know that the deck is stacked, that you will lose, and that your hands or judgment will slip and yet still struggle to win for your patients.

尤其是最后一部分，让我对医生们产生了深深的共鸣。

It also that last part, like, made me just feel for doctors.

就像

Like

我也是。

Me too.

是的。

Yeah.

哇。

Wow.

很沉重。

Heavy.

是的。

Yeah.

老兄，我可做不到。

Dude, I couldn't do it.

根本不可能。

There's no way.

如果一个人像我这样做了某件事，结果病人死了，我就完蛋了。

One person act like I did one thing and someone died, I'd be done.

我会想，这真不适合我。

I'd be like, oh, this isn't for me.

所以，想到有成百上千的医生一直在做这种事，那简直是在拿你的心理健康冒险。

So to know that there's hundreds and thousands of doctors out there putting That's like your mental health.

你必须非常坚强，打下极其坚实的基础，才能做到这一点。

You have to be so strong and put yourself such a strong foundation to do that.

这真的非常了不起，说实话。

And that's really remarkable, honestly.

所以我真的非常理解那些面对这类新闻的医生们。

So I really felt for the doctors that deal with these types of, like, news.

而且关于杰夫，显然，这种压力正是他选择结束自己生命的原因。

Well, and with Jeff, I mean, obviously, the toll of that is is why he took his own life.

但我确实感到疑惑，因为我并不确定。

But I I do wonder because I don't know.

他提到，他和杰夫多年来都接受过训练，主动面对死亡并与其抗争。

He talks about how Jeff and I had trained for years to actively engage with death to grapple with it.

所以我不确定，杰夫在生前是否经常思考死亡，还是这仅仅是一次冲动行为？

So it's like, I don't know, I wonder how much Jeff thought about his death before or was this an act?

嗯，甚至在第一部分的早期，我们就听到了很多关于杰夫的事。

Well, even in, like, earlier in part one, we hear a lot about Jeff.

所以杰夫是他那种爱开玩笑的朋友。

So Jeff is kind of his jokester friend.

他们开玩笑说，有没有人会聪明到足以当上加利福尼亚或爱达荷州的州长？

They joke about, you know, is someone gonna have enough brain to be a governor of California or Idaho?

他们其实就是那种爱开玩笑的人。

Like, they're they're kind of jokesters.

然后杰夫甚至问保罗今天过得怎么样。

And then Jeff even says, he asks how Paul's day was.

保罗说，他今天遇到了一个特别难过的病例，是个小男孩，真的很难受。

And Paul said, like, how he's had the worst day with this little boy patient and, you know, it was really hard.

杰夫说，如果我哪天心情不好，我知道可以来找你。

And Jeff said, well, if I ever have a bad day, I know I can come to you.

所以看起来他确实有点……我不知道怎么说。

And so it seems like he did kind of like, I don't know.

在我看来，这就是在直面死亡，直面你所处的境遇。

To me, that's grappling in death and grappling in the situation you're in.

所以当我听到杰夫的故事时，我特别为医生们感到心酸，因为那一定糟糕透顶，他一定感到无比自责。

So I just feel for doctors when I heard Jeff's story because it had to have been that bad, and he had to have felt that guilty.

这真的很难受。

And that's just hard.

关于第一部分，还有其他想法吗？

Any other thoughts about part one?

我有没有漏掉什么？

Anything I didn't call out?

你们喜欢这本书的内容吗？

Are y'all liking the book stuff?

怎么了，艾米莉？

What what, Emily?

我得说实话。

I gotta be honest.

我非常非常怕血，对‘我也是’这种话题受不了。

I'm very, very squeamish, and I don't do well with Me too.

听或者我发现我听了有声书，所以听到那些极其恶心的描述，我的确受不了——当然，对在听的医生们来说，这些并不恶心。

Watching or I'm finding out I did the audiobook, so listening to descriptions of very grotesque and, I mean, I'm sure to the doctors listening, it's not grotesque to them.

但他描述的那些细节，真的让我很难受。

But, yeah, just the detail that he goes into on what he was doing, I it was it was hard for

我就是喜欢这种感情类的东西。

me I to get love stuff like that.

哦，我受不了。

Oh, I can't.

我真的处理不了。

I can't handle it.

有人提到他们割伤自己然后需要缝针。

Somebody was talking about how they cut themselves and had to get stitches.

我不得不把音量调低。

I had to turn it down.

我没法继续听，因为当时在开车。

I couldn't listen to it because I was driving.

我开始腿软，实在受不了这个。

I started getting weak in the knees, so I can't handle this.

真的，我也是这样。

Seriously Same way.

我开始呼吸急促，心想：好吧，我们得做些冥想呼吸，把音量再调回来，他们还在继续说。

I started breathing really fast, was like, okay, we have to do some meditative breath, like turn the volume back up, they're still talking

关于这个。

about it.

不，不，不，不，不。

No, no, no, no, no.

我不知道这源于哪里，也不明白为什么，我觉得是五年级时，老师让我们在室内休息时观看，或者让我们看一段非常放大、展示静脉和血细胞流动的视频，我晚上一直想着这件事。

I don't know where it's from, I don't know why, I think it's fifth grade, my teacher would make us have indoor recess and watch us, or make us watch this really zoomed in video of a vein and the blood cells going through it, and I just would stay up at night thinking about that.

我们都不太清楚，也许真的需要心理咨询。

We all I don't know, maybe therapy is needed.

我不知道你们在室内休息时是不是也这样，或者是不是更像《魔法校车》那样的情况。

I don't know if that's what y'all were doing during indoor recess or if maybe it was more of a magic school bus situation.

但现在，只要有人谈论血液，我就受不了。

But now I can't handle it when people talk about blood.

更加尊重医生，真的，谢谢你们，非常感谢。

More respect for doctors, seriously thank you, thank you so much.

是的。

Yeah.

不。

No.

真的，英雄们。

Seriously, heroes.

而且就在疫情期间，这真的是最能让人看清他们所做之事的时刻，说实话，太让人震撼了。

And like even in the pandemic happening, I it's just honestly the best time for people like this because I just man, it's so eye opening on what they do.

而且，没错，这是个很好的观点。

And, yeah, that's a great point.

我以前没懂，但我超爱这些东西。

I didn't get I love, like, all that stuff.

所以我根本没想到会有人因此觉得恶心。

So I didn't even think about people that could get, like, kind of grossed out by it.

说实话，我当初没投这本书，就是出于这个原因。

And to be honest, again, I did not vote for this book for that reason.

真相是

And The truth comes

浮现出来的。

out.

我并没有

I didn't

投票支持它。

vote for it either.

这就是我喜欢这个小组的原因，因为如果不是这样，我根本不会读这本书。

That's why I love this group is because it it I would have never read this book otherwise.

确实如此。

True.

我也不会读。

I wouldn't have either.

但既然你现在读了，它有没有让你有什么新的认识？

But now that you're in it, are you is it has it shown you anything?

你是说，你欣赏他的文笔吗？

Like, do you appreciate his writing?

你是不是觉得，这书太扯了？

Are you like, no, this is a whack book?

哦，我很喜欢。

Oh, love it.

他的文笔？不，我觉得太怪了。

His writing No, don't like it's so whack.

我希望第二部分不要有那么多血腥细节。

I'm hopeful that part two will not have as much gory detail.

莎拉，你喜欢这本书吗？

Sarah, you like the book?

我喜欢。

I like it.

我真的很喜欢。

I really like it a lot.

说实话，我一开始被这个书名给劝退了。

I was kind of put off by the title, honestly.

听起来有点激烈，这本书确实很激烈，但它的写法却让人非常享受。

It sounded a little bit intense and it is an intense book, but the way it's written is so enjoyable.

读起来非常流畅，很快就能读完。

It reads so well, so quickly.

是的。

Yeah.

别走开，因为第二部分的播客里会问一个问题：为什么我们认为书名是《当呼吸化为空气》，因为他在整本书里从未提到过这个标题。

Well, stay tuned because one of the questions in the part two podcast will be why we think the title is When Breath Becomes Air because he never referenced it this throughout the book.

所以我们也可以聊聊这个，但你那边怎么样？

So we can talk about that too, but what's up?

我想知道其他人对这本书目前的看法。

And I wanna know what everyone else is thinking about the book so far.

看完第一部分后，你应该给BTC的Instagram发私信，告诉我们：你容易感到不适吗？

So after you finish part one, you should DM the btc Instagram and let us know, are you squeamish?

你能承受得了对骨骼的那些描述吗？

Can you handle the descriptions of the bones all?

我受不了。

I couldn't.

我受不了。

I couldn't.

还有他谈到分娩时的情景，天哪。

Or the labor, when he was talking about the labor, like, oh god.

天哪。

Oh god.

不行。

No.

不行。

No.

别多谈这个了。

Don't talk about it too much.

请别这样。

Please don't.

停下。

Stop.

我敢肯定当妈妈们的反应是：这很自然。

I'm sure the moms are like, it's natural.

没关系。

It's fine.

不。

No.

停下。

Stop.

是的。

Yeah.

就像，嗯

Like, well

我不在。

I'm not in.

我出去了。

I'm out.

萨拉会处理这件事。

Sarah is gonna sign off this.

其实我现在正靠着墙，这样挺好。

I actually I'm like, I'm I'm leaning up against the wall right now, so that's good.

我要倒下了。

I'm gonna fall over.

你喝点水吧。

You drink some water.

等一下。

Hold up.

这太棒了。

This is awesome.

这是一次很棒的读书讨论。

It was a great book discussion.

我们来结束这个播客吧。

Let's wrap up the podcast.

接下来我们要谈的是隔离中的快乐。

The next thing we have is the joy in the quarantine.

在隔离期间，是什么给你带来了快乐？

What is bringing you joy in the quarantine?

而且说实话，如果你真的没有找到快乐，那就谈谈你正在经历的困难吧。

And honestly, if you just wanna be real and you haven't found joy, just talk about something you're struggling with.

这是一个让我们和听众都能真实、坦诚表达的时刻和空间。

Like, this is a time and space to be authentic and real for not only us on the podcast, but our listeners.

那么，有谁想先说说是什么给你带来了快乐吗？

And so does anyone wanna go first on what is bringing them joy?

好的。

Okay.