313: Optimal Training and Nutrition Strategies for Women with Dr. Stacy Sims

你每周都在锻炼，但镜子里还是看不到你想要的变化吗？

Are you working out week after week, but you're still not really seeing the changes you want to see in the mirror?

或者你做了很多有氧运动，指望它能带来改变，结果却一点进展都没有？

Or maybe you've been doing lots of cardio hoping it's finally gonna move the needle, but in reality, nothing is really budging.

又或者你明明知道力量训练很重要。

Or maybe you're someone who knows strength training is important.

也许你正处于围绝经期，知道必须增肌，但一想到要开始就觉得压力太大了。

Maybe you're perimenopausal and you know you need to build muscle, but getting started feels just incredibly overwhelming.

如果你感到沮丧、停滞不前，或者不知道该怎么让锻炼真正有效，我专门为你准备了一个免费的在线课程。

If you're feeling frustrated or stuck or just unsure how to make your workouts actually work for you, I created a free on demand workshop that is just for you.

课程名叫《为什么你的锻炼没效果，以及该怎么做才对》。

It's called why your workouts aren't working and what to do instead.

在这堂课里，我会带你梳理女性锻炼中最常见的五个错误，然后教你如何真正纠正它们，让你不再白费力气，真正看到镜子里的变化。

In this workshop, I walk you through the five biggest mistakes that I see women making in their workouts and then how to actually fix them so that you can stop spinning your wheels and actually start seeing results that show up in the mirror.

内容很深入，但我讲得简单明了，随时能上手。

We go deep, but I keep it simple and actionable.

这是免费的，我保证它会彻底改变你的训练方式。

It's free, and I promise it's going to shift the way that you train forever.

你可以在 bicepsafterbabies.com/workshop 上观看。

You can watch it at bicepsafterbabies.com/workshop.

这是你迈向自信、强壮，真正看到努力成果的下一步。

This is your next step towards feeling confident, strong, and actually seeing your effort pay off.

前往 bicepsafterbabies.com/workshop。

Go to bicepsafterbabies.com/workshop.

你正在收听《产后练出马甲线》电台第三集第十三期。

You're listening to biceps after babies radio episode three thirteen.

你好，欢迎收听《产后练出马甲线》电台，这是一档为那些明白健身远不止于减重或破纪录的女性打造的播客。

Hello, and welcome to biceps afterbabies radio, a podcast for ladies who know that fitness is about so much more than pounds lost or PRs.

它关乎你对自己身体的自信，以及对生活的掌控感。

It's about feeling confident in your skin and empowered in your life.

我是主持人安伯·布里齐基，注册护士、私人教练，也是一位四个孩子的妻子和妈妈。

I'm your host, Amber Breezicky, a registered nurse, personal trainer, wife, and mom of four.

每周，我和我的嘉宾都会激发你、鼓舞你，让你在个人健身上付诸行动，我们会聊营养、锻炼、心态、个人成长，以及有意识地过好每一天。

Each week, my guests and I will excite and motivate you to take action in your own personal fitness as we talk about nutrition, exercise, mindset, personal development, and executing life with conscious intention.

如果你的目标是看起来更棒、感觉更棒、真正变得强大，并且从内而外实现转变，那亲爱的，你来对地方了。

If your goal is to look, feel, and be strong and experience transformation from the inside out, you, my friend, are in the right place.

感谢你的收听。

Thank you for tuning in.

好了，咱们直接进入今天这期节目。

Now let's jump into today's episode.

嘿，嘿，嘿。

Hey, hey, hey.

欢迎回到《产后练出马甲线》电台的又一期节目。

Welcome back to another episode of Biceps After Babies Radio.

我是你的主持人，安伯·布里齐基。

I'm your host, Amber Breezicky.

今天这期特别精彩，因为我将采访一位医生。

And today is a very exciting episode because I'm interviewing Doctor.

斯泰西·西姆斯，是一位运动生理学家兼营养科学家，她专注于根据女性身体的特点来设计训练和营养方案。

Stacy Sims, who is an exercise physiologist and a nutrition scientist who is all about making sure that we are working with the female body when it comes to training, when it comes to nutrition.

长期以来，甚至几个世纪以来，所有的研究、医学和教育都以男性身体为标准。

It's really important to understand that for decades, if not centuries, all research, medicine, education has been based on the male body.

你肯定也知道，女性身体和男性身体根本不一样。

And I don't have to tell you that the female body is not the same as the male body.

斯泰西做了大量研究，专门探讨女性在训练中的特殊需求。

And so what Stacy has done is a lot of research and education around the differences in training a female body.

锻炼前后，我们该怎么安排饮食？

What should we be doing pre and post workout with our nutrition?

我们该怎么给自己补充能量？

How should we be fueling ourselves?

该吃多少碳水化合物？

How much carbohydrates should we eat?

蛋白质又该吃多少？

How much protein?

我们的休息和恢复需要什么？

What does our rest and recovery need?

我们的二区有氧运动需求是什么？

What are our zone two cardio needs?

这些内容我们在这一期里都会谈到。

We talk about that in the episode.

接下来的一个小时里，你会听到大量科学内容——你知道我最喜欢这个，但更重要的是，你会得到很多实用建议，帮助你思考训练、营养，以及如何针对女性身体优化这些方面。

And so what you're going to hear over the next hour is a lot of science, which you know I love, but a lot of really practical recommendations when it comes to thinking about training, thinking about nutrition, and thinking about how do we optimize those things specifically for the female body.

我真的很期待你收听这期与西蒙斯博士的对话。

So I cannot wait for you to hear this episode with Doctor.

斯泰西·西蒙斯博士。

Stacy Sims.

好了。

All right.

我非常高兴能邀请到西蒙斯博士。

I am so excited to welcome Doctor.

欢迎斯蒂西·西姆斯博士做客我们的播客。

Stacy Sims to the podcast.

非常感谢你来参加。

Thanks so much for being here.

谢谢邀请我。

Thanks for having me.

我很期待和你聊聊。

I'm looking forward to chatting.

这会很有趣。

It'll be fun.

是的。

Yes.

我刚才在开始录音前跟斯蒂西说，我特别想好好深入聊聊这些科学内容，你们知道我一向最爱研究这些。

I was just telling Stacy before I hit record that I'm just excited to, like, be able to nerd out a little bit on some of the science y stuff because you guys know I love the science.

我特别喜欢看研究，而要说清楚这些话题，没人比得上斯蒂西博士了。

I love the research and there's nobody better to talk about this stuff and describe it to us than Doctor.

西姆斯。

Sims.

非常感谢你今天来参加。

So thank you for being here.

如果有人还不了解你、你的平台、你的工作和研究，你能简单介绍一下你自己吗？特别是你是怎么开始投身营养、健身和运动方面的研究的？

If somebody doesn't know you or they haven't been introduced to you and your platform and your work and your research, can you just give us a little bit of background on you and specifically how you got into the research side of nutrition and fitness and exercise?

是的。

Yeah.

我专业是女性运动表现生理学。

So I am technically a female athlete performance physiologist.

说白了，我是一名专门研究女性、性别差异，特别是运动与营养的生理学家，因为我本来就是运动生理学家。

So these are big, loud, long words to say, I'm a physiologist that specializes in women, sex differences, specifically exercise and nutrition, because I'm an exercise physiologist.

我以前总是盯着各种指南和建议，发现里面完全看不到女性的身影，这让我很沮丧。

So I really got frustrated with looking at guidelines and all the recommendations and seeing that there was no representation of women.

提到人的时候，永远都是‘他们’、‘他们’，或者‘他’，尤其是在教科书和早期教育材料里。

So, it's always they, them, or him, especially in textbooks and early education.

而且当你翻阅学术论文时，情况也是一样。

And then as you're going through journal articles, it's the same thing.

你看着文章，心里就会想：这项研究的对象是谁？

You're looking and you're saying, What population is this?

结果总是男性。

And it's always men.

我天生就爱刨根问底，我妈妈肯定能作证，我小时候就是那个总问‘为什么’的烦人孩子。

So, being a continuous, curious person and asking why all the time, I'm sure my mother will be very apt to say, Yes, she was that kid that was annoying that always asked why.

到现在还是这样。

Still am.

我就想知道，为什么女性总是被忽视。

Wanted to know why women weren't represented.

所以，从我整个学术和运动生涯开始，我的核心目标就是深入研究性别差异——月经周期、口服避孕药、更年期激素治疗，这些因素如何影响女性的生理机能，而这些又和主流生物医学研究中只以男性为对象的结论截然不同。

And so that's been the platform for my entire career, academic and sporting career, is to really dig in and understand sex differences, menstrual cycle, oral contraceptive pill, menopause hormone therapy, how all of these things affect your physiology and how that yet again is different than what we see in the general biomedical research, which is all done in a male population.

是的。

Yeah.

这个话题我真的特别感兴趣。

I mean, love this topic.

Stacy，在录之前我跟你说过我丈夫是医生。

So Stacy, before we hit record, I told you that my husband is a physician.

但我没告诉你，他是泌尿妇科医生。

What I didn't tell you is that he is an urogynecologist.

说白了，他就是专门看女性泌尿问题的医生。

So he's basically a female urologist.

他做的很多工作其实和你刚才说的类似——泌尿科这行已经存在很久了，对吧？

And one of his things has been, you know, kind of some of the same stuff where urology has been a field of medicine for eons, right?

长期以来，男性泌尿科医生一直在处理男性尿道、膀胱这些问题。

We've had male urologists dealing with male urethra and bladder and all those issues for a long, long time.

女性泌尿妇科成为正式认证的专科才十几年，因为过去太久了，大家默认男性是标准，女性总是被忽略。

Female urogynecology has only been a board certified specialty for like fifteen years because for so long, for so long, like we just kind of it's like the male is the default and the female is the afterthought.

所以他一直在努力，让女性的医学研究和临床治疗赶上男性长期享有的水平。

And so, a lot of what he does in his work is trying to get the research and the care of women up to the standard of where men have been for a very long time.

这同样也是我的热情所在。

So this is like a passion of mine as well.

没错。

Yeah.

比如说

Like

我第一反应就是，等等，男女在解剖结构和盆底方面本来就有差异。

my head automatically went to like, wait, there are anatomical and pelvic floor differences between men and women.

那为什么还默认女性和男性一模一样呢？

So why is it assumed that women would be the same as men?

说得太对了，真的就是这样。

That's exactly, I mean, right.

还有啊，女性要经历怀孕。

And there's so, and you know, females carrying pregnancy.

真的有太多不同了。

I mean, there's just so many differences.

而且说实话，这个领域成为正式的专科认证也没多久。

And yeah, I mean, it has not been a board certified specialty for that long.

简直太离谱了。

Just, it's nutso.

太疯狂了。

Crazy.

没错。

Yeah.

所以，如果有人还在怀疑，为什么不能把男性的数据直接套用到女性身上呢？

So in case anybody needs any persuading, why can't we generalize male data to females?

为什么不能做这种推论呢？

Why can't we do that extrapolation?

其实从胎儿时期就开始出现性别差异了。

Well, when we look, there are sex differences in utero.

我们可以看到男性和女性子宫在发育过程中的不同。

So we see differences in the development of a male versus a female uterus.

我是说，胚胎。

I mean, embryo.

对，胎儿、胚胎。

Yeah, fetus, embryo.

当我们具体看压力和营养的时候，如果母亲压力很大又营养不良，女性胎儿更可能存活下来，而男性胎儿则很可能无法存活，这是因为染色体与压力耐受力有关，我们发现XX染色体比XY对压力的耐受力强得多。

So when we're looking specifically like stress and nutrition, if the mother is highly stressed and undernourished, a female fetus is going to survive, where a male fetus most likely will not, just because we look at chromosomal links to stress and resilience, and we see that the XX is much more resilient to stress than the XY.

这在文献里已经是公认的一个例子了。

And that's just one really well known documentation in the literature.

出生后，当我们观察这种发展趋势时，会发现男孩和女孩在青春期前其实很相似。

So when we're looking at after birth and we're seeing this progression, we see that boys and girls are relatively similar until we hit puberty.

但到了青春期，由于性激素的表观遗传影响，情况就发生了巨大变化。

And then there's this huge change from an epigenetic exposure of our sex hormones.

男孩会变得更高、更瘦、更强壮、更敏捷，这源于睾酮的作用以及XY染色体的特性——他们的血红蛋白更高、携氧能力更强、骨骼更结实、肌肉结构也不同，肌肉类型上更多是糖酵解型和II型快肌纤维。

So we see boys get taller, leaner, stronger, fitter, faster, just by the nature of the testosterone and the nature of having XY, we see greater hemoglobin, oxygen carrying capacity, stronger bones, different musculature, different muscle morphology, where men will have more glycolytic and type IIs than fast twitch fibers.

而女性由于是XX染色体，身体重心会发生变化。

Women, by the nature of being XX, will change center of gravity.

她们的生物力学发生了变化，骨盆变宽，肩部也变宽了。

Their biomechanics change because their hips widen, their shoulder girdle widens.

体脂率会随之增加。

They end up putting on more body fat.

慢肌纤维和氧化型纤维的比例更高。

They have more slow twitch and oxidative fibers.

再来看情绪、大脑和神经递质。

And then we look at mood and brain and neurotransmitters.

这些也受到双重影响，既来自染色体本身的性别差异，也来自性激素的表观遗传作用。

Those are also affected not only through, sex differences from like the chromosomal aspect, but also the epigenetic exposure of our sex hormones.

往前看，我们观察到这么多现象，但很少有人真正去探讨：营养和运动在性别差异和激素影响的背景下，是如何直接作用于我们的。

So as we go forward, we're looking, okay, well we see all these things, but we haven't really acknowledged the fact that how does nutrition and how does exercise affect us directly when we're looking across the board at sex differences and hormone exposures.

有意思的是，这些现象在体表上如此明显，可就连大鼠模型的研究都没人系统地往下深挖，对吧？

So it's really interesting that all this stuff is taking place on the outside, but no one's really disseminating it down to even like the rat model, right?

很多研究依然只用雄性大鼠，这背后是历史原因——医学和科学的设计者，当年在会议室里做决定的人，都不是女性。

We see a lot of research is still done on male rats, and it comes from that historic aspect of who designed medicine, who designed science, who was in the room when those were designed, it wasn't women.

所以一直以来，默认对象都是男性。

So the default has always been male.

现在我们要不断努力，让女性的声音得到应有的重视。

And so it's now this continuous fight to have female representation.

是的。

Yeah.

随着这件事越来越受关注，而你又是最早大力传播这一理念的先驱之一，你的口号是‘女性不是缩小版的男性’。

And it's, I mean, as this has started to become more of a thing and as you really have been somewhat of a pioneer in at least getting the word out of how important it is, your tagline is females are not small men.

你做得特别好，让更多人意识到这是一个问题，必须得到解决，我们需要更多的相关研究。

And you've done such a great job of even just like publicizing that this is a problem and it needs to be fixed and we need to have more research.

当我们更仔细地审视，开始关注男女之间在健康建议上的差异时，有哪些最重要的发现呢？

What are some of the biggest things that have come out as we have started to take a closer look and look at what are some of the differences in things that would be recommended for women that wouldn't be recommended for men?

或者，研究开始揭示出哪些我们长期误解的地方？

Or what is the research starting to clue us into of like, oh man, we've been getting this wrong for a really long time?

从临床用药的角度来看，药物及其代谢方式就是其中之一。

From a high touch perspective, drug and drug metabolism.

但如果回到我擅长的运动生理学领域，目前推荐的二区训练并不适合女性。

So, but if we pull it into my bread and butter of exercise physiology, current recommendations of zone two training, not appropriate for women.

因为我们要想想，二区训练的好处到底是什么？

Because if we're looking at what are the benefits of zone two?

这里其实有个层面，对吧？

So there's this layer, right?

我们经常听到这种说法。

And we hear about it all the time.

你需要二区训练来提升线粒体的呼吸能力，对吧？

You need zone two to increase mitochondrial respiration, right?

通过增强线粒体功能，提高MCT1转运蛋白，把乳酸吸收回来再利用。

Mitochondrial function to increase our MCT1, pulling lactate in to be able to recycle it and use it.

但作为XX染色体的女性，我们本来就具备这些能力。

By the nature of being XX, we already have all of those things.

我们的氧化型肌纤维比例本来就更高。

We have a higher proportion of oxidative fibers.

我们的线粒体比例更高，线粒体呼吸功能更强，利用游离脂肪酸的能力也更好，线粒体内还有更多专门负责摄取和利用游离脂肪酸的蛋白质。

We have a higher proportion of mitochondria, better mitochondrial respiration, better aspects of being able to use free fatty acids, different proteins within the mitochondria to pull in and utilize free fatty acids.

我们利用乳酸的能力也更强，这是因为女性在代谢上更灵活，这和我们的生殖生理特点密切相关。

We also have a greater ability of using lactate because women are very metabolically flexible because of a reproductive aspect that we have to consider.

但我们要考虑的是，如何为大脑健康提供支持？毕竟阿尔茨海默病在男女之间存在差异，女性大脑中出现斑块导致阿尔茨海默病的比例更高，对吧？

But what we need to do for feeding forward for brain health, because we see a sex difference in Alzheimer's, and there's a higher incidence of women with plaques that lead to Alzheimer's in the brain, right?

所以我们得想想，怎么才能让男女在这一点上更公平？关键就在于乳酸代谢。

So we're looking at how do we actually kind of level the playing field, and it's about lactate metabolism.

女性由于糖酵解纤维更少，产生乳酸的能力较弱，所以需要专门训练这一块，让身体学会识别乳酸、如何产生乳酸、如何清除乳酸，同时刺激大脑更多地利用乳酸。

So women, by the nature of having less glycolytic fibers, less ability to produce lactate, need to work on that side so that our body can understand what is lactate, and how do we produce it, how do we get rid of it, and stimulate the brain to use more lactate.

所以现在所有这些关于二区训练的说法，其实都是基于男性生理特点建立的。

So when we're talking about all this stuff about zone two, it's based on male physiology.

现在人人都在鼓吹做二区训练，但咱们得停下来想想，这些研究到底是以哪类人群为对象的？

And right now with that big buzz about everyone do zone two, it's like, Hey, hold on a second, let's look and see what is this population that this research was based upon.

我们讨论的不仅是癌症预防，还有乳酸代谢的问题。

And we're looking at cancer prevention, we're looking at lactate metabolism.

这类差异在男女之间也同样存在。

There are sex differences within that genre as well.

这就是为什么听到大家一味鼓吹二区训练时，我特别头疼。

So that's just one current example that is very frustrating when I hear all these people talk about zone two.

不对，不对，完全不对。

I'm like, No, no, no, no.

如果你是女性，想从中获益，那就另当别论。

Not if you are a woman, if you're trying to garner benefits.

那女性做有氧运动时，到底该怎么做才对？

So, what is the recommendation or what should women be doing when it comes to their cardio?

应该做高强度训练，比如冲刺间歇训练。

High intensity work, like sprint interval training.

现在各种研究都显示，不管是不是绝经前，绝经后，效果都一样。

We see it across the board now, and it doesn't really matter if you're premenopausal, postmenopausal.

高强度训练能帮助女性身体改善血糖稳定，还能让肌肉发生表观遗传变化，提升代谢灵活性。

We're seeing that high intensity work feeds back to a woman's body to increase glucose homeostasis, to have an epigenetic change within the muscle to be able to be more metabolically flexible.

我们发现这对大脑健康更有好处。

We're seeing that it's better for brain health.

我们发现这对肠道健康也有帮助。

We're seeing it's better for gut health.

我们发现它还能改善血管的弹性。

We're seeing it's better for vascular compliance.

过去我们总把长时间低强度有氧运动归为一类，认为它有助于减脂、促进脂肪代谢——这对男性确实有效。

So, all these things that we've typically put in the category of long, slow distance, let's do like the long, slow stuff for increasing our ability to lose weight and use fat, that works for men.

但对女性来说，真正有效的是力量训练和高强度训练。

But when we look for women, it's resistance training and high intensity intensity work.

高强度训练。

Work.

这太棒了。

That's awesome.

你能稍微讲讲吗？我知道女性在间歇性禁食方面有一些特殊差异，也存在一些潜在的不利影响。

Can you speak a little bit to I know that there are some differences when it comes to intermittent fasting and the drawbacks that are associated with a female body in terms of intermittent fasting.

你能具体说说这一点吗？

Can you kind of speak to that?

如果女性想要尝试间歇性禁食，或者想试着调整一下，有哪些需要注意的地方？

And what should people be aware of if they are wanting to try out intermittent fasting or play around with it from a female physiology standpoint?

是的，我得先明确一下具体指的是什么。

Yeah, so I'll have to quantify what it is, right?

我们说的间歇性禁食，就是长时间不进食。

So we talk about intermittent fasting, and this is where you have long periods of time where you're not eating.

比如武士式，一天二十小时不吃东西，只在四小时内进食，或者十六比八的那种。

So you have like the warrior where it's twenty hours of no eating, four hour eating window, or the sixteen and eight.

但从女性生理角度来说，一天中长时间不进食其实并不有利。

And so those are aspects where we look at and go, okay, well, for the female physiology, long times of the day when we're not eating is not beneficial.

长时间禁食对女性并不合适。

We have long periods of fast is not beneficial.

因为女性大脑里有两个区域叫做 kisspeptin 神经元。

For the fact that in a woman's brain, we have two areas of what we call kispeptin neurons.

Kisspeptin在女性体内负责两个关键功能。

Now, kispeptin is responsible for two key factors in the woman's body.

一个是内分泌功能。

One is endocrine function.

比如促黄体生成素的脉冲、月经周期的调节，以及月经和甲状腺功能的正常反馈。

So we're looking at luteinizing hormone pulse, menstrual cycle function, the correct feedback for having menstrual cycle and thyroid function.

另一个是食欲控制。

And then the other is appetite, appetite control.

当我们长时间不进食时，身体就会进入分解状态。

And when we have long periods where we don't have food, the body gets into a breakdown state.

最先流失的是瘦体重。

First thing to go is lean mass.

同时，Kisspeptin也会受到影响，导致这些神经元活性下降，进而引发内分泌紊乱和食欲失调。

And we also see that there is a perturbance in Kispeptin and it down regulates these Kispeptin neurons, so we start to have endocrine dysfunction and we start to have appetite dysregulation.

但在男性身上，这种情况不会发生。

In men, it doesn't happen.

男性则更容易增加肌肉量，减少体脂。

In men, we see a greater aspect of lean mass development, body fat loss.

他们的副交感神经活跃度更高。

We see parasympathetic drive.

血糖控制也更稳定。

We see better blood glucose control.

但对女性来说，情况正好相反。

But for women, we have the opposite.

如果你采用限时进食，比如晚饭后不再吃东西，直到第二天吃早餐，只要你处于糖尿病前期，或者担心同型半胱氨酸偏高、想减掉一点多余脂肪，又或者睡眠质量很差，这种饮食方式其实挺合适的。

If we talk about time restricted eating, so that is not eating after dinner and then eating breakfast, you're still going to get some of those benefits if you are someone who is on the cusp of diabetes, so you're pre diabetic, or you're worried about your homocysteine, if you're worried about trying to lose a little bit of extra body fat, and you're also having lots of issues sleeping, then that kind of restriction is great.

我们通常管这叫正常饮食，对吧？

We normally call it just normal eating, right?

是的，晚饭后别吃，早上再吃。

Yeah, eat dinner and then eat breakfast.

对。

Yeah.

而且现在还有越来越多的群体研究数据出来。

And then we also see some more of the population research that's coming out.

那些把进食时间推迟到下午、甚至到中午以后的人，比那些早一点吃早餐、晚上也早点停止进食的人，更容易发胖。

For those who delay food intake till afternoon, so noon onwards, have a greater obesogenic profile than those who break the fast early and then stop eating earlier in the evening.

这跟生物节律有关，而且对女性的影响比对男性更明显。

So it works with chronobiology, and we're seeing a bigger effect in women than we are in men.

很多女性在进行间歇性禁食时，会把进食时间推迟，同时早上锻炼，锻炼完还是不吃东西，因为运动会影响食欲。

And then when we add training into it, a lot of women who are doing intermittent fasting will delay their food intake and do morning training, still delay afterwards because you'll have a perturbance in your appetite.

如果你练得够猛，根本不会觉得饿。

You won't feel that hungry if you've done a hard session.

她们可能会在早上锻炼完两小时后再吃第一餐。

And then they'll break their fast maybe two hours after a morning training session.

听到这种做法，我就会想：那你干嘛还要锻炼呢？

And when I hear something like that, I'm like, Well, why are you training?

首先，你在空腹状态下运动，根本没法促进肌肉增长，因为最先被分解的恰恰就是肌肉组织。肌肉代谢活跃、耗能高，身体会想：得了吧，我得先拆了它来供能，而且也没能量进来支持它生长和修复。

For one, you aren't promoting lean mass development because the first thing to go when you are doing exercise in a fasted state is lean mass, because lean mass is very metabolically hungry and very metabolically active, and your body's like, Wait, I'm gonna break this tissue down because I need fuel for one, and two, I don't have energy coming in to support the growth and development of this.

然后你就一直处在分解代谢的状态，直到你吃东西为止。

And then you stay in this catabolic state until you eat.

当你处于这种分解代谢状态时，下丘脑就会想：嗯，摄入的营养连维持日常基本需求都不够，更别说其他功能了。

And when you're in this catabolic state, the hypothalamus is like, Wait, there's not enough nutrition coming in just to support daily life, let alone all these other things.

所以身体开始下调代谢，仅仅四天能量摄入不足，或者推迟进食，就足以明显影响甲状腺功能。

So it starts to down regulate, and we see only four days of low energy availability, or this delayed food intake, starts to really play with thyroid and thyroid function.

对于女性来说，尝试限时进食或间歇性禁食带来的负面影响，比男性要多得多。

So there's more outcomes that are negative for women who are playing around with time restricted eating and intermittent fasting than there are with men who do this.

我们来谈谈你提到的那个例子，因为这确实是很多女性的常见做法——早上起床就去健身房，却空腹锻炼。

So let's go to the example that you talked about because I think it is a very common example of women who get up early and go to the gym and maybe don't eat before they do.

就像你说的，她们会一直保持分解代谢状态，直到去吃东西，而那可能已经是健身好几个小时之后了。

And like you said, they're in this catabolic state until they go and eat, and maybe that could be hours after the gym.

如果一个人的目标是促进肌肉增长、加速恢复、优化女性体内的激素分泌，那她在运动前后应该怎么安排饮食？

If somebody is trying to optimize for muscle growth, optimize for recovery, optimize for hormone production for the female body, what would their food consumption look like pre and post workout?

其实运动前不需要吃很多。

So it doesn't have to be a lot before.

比如说你每天五点半或六点起床，六点半就到健身房了，这时候我真不吃东西。

So say you're someone who gets up at 05:30 or five and is in the gym by six or 06:30, like, I'm not gonna eat.

我得赶紧起来。

I have to get up.

我得赶紧穿好衣服。

I have to get dressed.

我得在孩子醒之前悄悄溜出家门。

I have to sneak out of the house before the kids get up.

我

I

得先做完锻炼回家，然后才能处理孩子起床、出门这些早上的琐事，大家都懂的。

need to do my session and get home and then deal with getting the kids up, out the door, all the morning stuff that we all deal with.

你早上起床，开车去健身房的路上，可以喝一杯加了蛋白的咖啡——咖啡因帮你撑过训练，再加一两勺乳清蛋白，配上无糖牛奶或植物奶，这样就行。

It's when you get up and as you're driving to the gym, maybe it is a protein fortified coffee where your caffeine is gonna help you through your workout, but you're having one or two tablespoons of whey protein added to it with some unsweetened or milk alternative, right?

这就相当于给身体充个电，摄入十五到二十克蛋白质，再加二十到三十克碳水，整个人就能状态在线了。

So, it's just like a power boost where you're getting 15 to 20 grams of protein, maybe 20 or 30 grams of carbohydrate, and you're good to go.

训练完后，你得在三十到四十五分钟内吃点东西。

And then you need to eat within thirty to forty five minutes after your session.

所以，那杯蛋白粉饮料虽然不是最理想的，但至少能帮你一点？

So is that protein shake not ideal, but it's gonna do something for you?

还是你提前一晚准备好了隔夜燕麦，开车回家时在车里吃？

Or is it overnight oats that you've pulled out of the fridge to have with you in the car as you're driving home?

又或者，早餐你前一天晚上就差不多准备好了，回家后能和孩子一起吃。

Or is it, okay, breakfast, I've prepared mostly the night before so I can pull it out and have breakfast with the kids.

其实并不需要多花什么额外的时间。

So it's not really a huge extra step.

只需要稍微提前规划一下，好处却大得多——要是不这么做，你练完一身疲惫，压力爆表，皮质醇飙升，连喘口气的机会都没有，得等把所有人都送出门，洗完澡才能吃上饭。

It's a little bit of planning, but the benefits are so far better than if you were just to go through the whole thing and try to do your training, be highly stressed, increase the catabolic state, increase the cortisol, not be able to take a breath and a pause until you get everyone out the door and you get to shower and then you get to eat.

是的。

Yeah.

这主意真不错。

That's really good.

我想聊聊皮质醇，因为很多人不太明白，运动其实会给身体带来压力，对吧？

I want to talk a little bit about cortisol because I think a lot of people don't understand that, you know, exercising is a stressor on your body, right?

它确实会提升皮质醇水平。

It is going to increase cortisol.

但皮质醇升高并不总是坏事。

So an increased cortisol isn't always a bad thing.

它只是身体应对压力的一种方式。

It is just the way our body deals with stress.

不过，皮质醇和体重增加是有关系的。

But, you know, cortisol is linked to weight gain.

那我们该怎么和身体合作，让压力变成有益的呢？

And so what are some ways that we can work with our body to have productive stress in our life, right?

去健身房、举重，这些是有益的压力，但关键是要管理好，别让它导致不必要的体重增长。

The gym, weightlifting, have those productive stress, but be able to manage it in a way that it's not contributing to unwanted weight gain.

是啊，皮质醇这东西挺有意思的。

Yeah, cortisol is a funny one.

昨天我和一位当全科医生的朋友聊了聊，话题是耐力运动员的皮质醇水平、基础值，以及由此带来的体成分变化，还关联到艾迪生病，这些真的挺有意思的。

I had a conversation yesterday with one of my friends who's a GP, and we were talking about endurance athletes and cortisol and cortisol baselines and body comp that comes out of that and association with Addison's disease, and that is really interesting as you're going down that path.

但如果你想想那些长期处于‘疲惫却兴奋’状态、交感神经持续激活的普通女性，我们就得特别留意，得为自己的运动量提供足够的能量补给。

But if you think about a general woman who stays in that tired but wired and that sympathetic state that a lot of people end up falling into, We have to really be conscious that we're fueling for our activity.

无论是去健身房锻炼，还是去跑步，都得吃够东西。

So we're fueling for the gym or fueling for a run.

运动完还得好好恢复。

We're recovering from it.

没错，皮质醇确实会上升，但只要你一吃东西，打破分解代谢的状态，皮质醇就会马上降下来。

Yes, cortisol goes up, but as soon as you have some food that comes in and you're breaking that catabolic state, cortisol comes down.

高强度训练时，大家都知道皮质醇会升高，但很少有人提到，训练后你会迎来生长激素和睾酮的飙升，这也有助于降低皮质醇，尤其是配合进食之后。

If you're doing high intensity work, yes, people talk about cortisol coming up, but what they don't talk about is the follow through that you have a growth hormone spike and a testosterone boost post high intensity work, which also helps drop cortisol, especially with food.

所以关键是要搞清楚你做的是哪种运动，然后针对性地补充营养。

So it's understanding what modality of exercise you're doing and definitely fueling for the work at hand.

另外，我们还得想想白天那些突然袭来的压力时刻——比如开会堵车，突然感觉心跳加速、呼吸变快，这时候该怎么应对这种强烈的压力？

The other thing we think about is during the day, these big pockets of stress where you are in a meeting or you're stuck in traffic and you're like, How do I deal with this massive amount of stress right now that I can feel my heart rate going up, my breathing rate going up?

可以试试四角呼吸法或者正念呼吸，其实不需要花太多时间。

And it's looking into a little bit of the box breathing or the mindfulness breathing, and it doesn't take a lot.

只要花五分钟，做几次深吸气和慢呼气，这样又能帮助降低交感神经的活跃度。

It could be five minutes of just a couple of inhalations, exhalations, because then that, again, helps reduce that sympathetic drive.

只要有机会放松下来，减轻交感神经的紧张，整体就能降低皮质醇水平。

So anytime we have the opportunity to just taper and reduce that sympathetic drive, overall decreases cortisol.

生活中难免还是会遇到压力点，但关键是我们知道该怎么应对。

That we can still have stress points in our day, but we know how to manage it.

对。

Yeah.

因为压力是不会消失的。

Because stress doesn't go anywhere.

每个人都会经历压力。

Like, we're all experiencing stress.

重要的是像你说的，学会和它共处。

It's really about managing, like you said, working with it.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

对。

Yeah.

这很好。

That's really good.

你提到过，要根据我们实际的活动量来补充能量。

You said something about making sure that we're fueling for the work that we're doing.

我猜你也经常看到，我身边很多女性都在过度运动却摄入不足，明明要完成高强度的训练，饮食却跟不上。

And I have to imagine, I'm sure you probably see it as well, I see a lot of women who are under fueling for the work that they're doing, right, expecting their body to do a lot of heavy lifting, heavy workouts, and then under fueling for that.

那怎么知道自己是不是能量摄入不够呢？有什么方法可以自我判断吗？

How does one know or how could someone go about self diagnosing if they perhaps need more fuel for the workouts they're doing?

有哪些信号能提醒我们，身体其实需要更多能量来支撑当前的运动量？

What are some indications that we could be looking for that say, Hey, you're underfueling for the work you're requiring of your body?

是的。

Yeah.

这确实挺难的，因为很多人食欲失调，吃不够，尤其当训练强度大、天气变化，或者食欲变差的时候。

It's kind of a hard one because we have a lot of appetite dysregulation we're not fueling appropriately, and when someone does something hard, or the weather changes, or appetite's a bit muted.

如果你平时吃得不多，还没吃够就容易觉得饱了。

And if you're not used to eating a lot, then you're gonna feel full before you actually get what you need.

所以从客观角度来看，我们会关注恢复指标。

So when we're looking from an objective point of view, we're looking at our recovery metrics.

做完一次高强度训练，你的心率要多久才能降下来？

Do a hard workout, how long does it take for your heart rate to come back down?

你的心率变异性有什么变化？

What is your heart rate variability doing?

这些数据的趋势是怎样的？

What are the trends in there?

如果你还在正常来月经，你的周期有没有出现异常？

If you are still naturally cycling, what is your menstrual cycle doing?

是变短了还是变长了？

Is it shortening or lengthening?

出血模式有变化吗？

Is there a change in the bleed pattern?

但从日常来看，我们最关注的是你的疲劳程度和睡眠质量。

But from a day to day perspective, we really look at how fatigued you are and how are you sleeping.

因为如果你摄入不足，身体就得不到充分恢复。

Because if you are under fueled, it's being under recovered.

所以我们得看看，到底哪里出了问题？

And so we're looking at, okay, what are we doing?

我们的恢复情况怎么样？

How is our recovery going?

几周下来，还可以观察体成分的变化。

And then over the course of weeks, you can look at body comp.

比如你在健身房举重、想增肌，到底是真长了肌肉，还是没什么变化？

Like, if you're in the gym and you're lifting heavy and you're trying to build a muscle, are you actually building muscle or are you staying the same?

体脂变化也是同样的道理。

Same with body composition change.

你是在长肚子上的脂肪，还是没有？

Are you putting on belly fat or not?

所以我们得关注这个，因为如果营养跟不上，一直处于分解状态，你是不可能长出肌肉的。

So we're looking at that because if we're not fueling and we stay in this breakdown state, you're not gonna build lean mass.

这根本不可能做到。

It's just not possible.

你必须摄入充足的营养，才能向身体发出信号，促进肌肉增长并维持现有肌肉。

You need an abundance of nutrition to come in to signal that lean mass development and to maintain that lean mass.

如果不这么做，肌肉就长不起来，也维持不住，反而会堆积更多脂肪。

If we don't, then we don't build or maintain the lean mass, and we put on more body fat.

所以关键是要有意识地根据你的运动量来安排营养摄入。

So it's just being very cognitively aware that, okay, I'm going to initially fuel for what I'm doing.

比如，力量训练前至少摄入15克蛋白质，有氧运动前补充15克蛋白质加30克碳水，训练结束后，如果是早上，尽快吃早餐，如果是下午，尽快吃午餐，别拖超过45分钟，越早越好。

So that is making sure that I'm having at least 15 grams of protein for resistance training, 15 grams of protein with 30 grams of carbohydrate before more cardiovascular work, and then having my breakfast as soon as possible after that session, if it's in the morning, or my lunch as soon as possible after that session, and not having a delay of ninety minutes or more, but I'm saying soon as possible within that forty five minute post exercise window.

如果你能做到这一点，剩下的还不确定的地方，就先专注在饮食补充和运动后的恢复上。

If you do that, and then the rest of it you're still not sure of, just work on that part right there about fueling and recovering from the exercise that you are doing.

记住，再怎么锻炼也抵消不了糟糕的饮食或错误的饮食选择。

And remember that you cannot out exercise a bad diet or bad diet choices.

如果你想改变体成分，关键不是烧了多少卡路里，而是要支持你的训练，调节相关的激素反应，避免身体发出储存脂肪的信号。

And if you're trying to budge body composition, it's not about calories burned, it's about supporting that work and supporting the hormone responses around that work to mitigate signals for maintaining body fat.

尤其是现在，节日临近，那些女性杂志动不动就说：‘你吃了三块饼干。’

So this is the, especially right now when we're looking at the holidays coming up, and all this stupid women's magazines are like, You ate three cookies.

你得在跑步机上跑三十分钟才能抵消。

You have to spend thirty minutes running on the treadmill.

其实根本不是这么回事。

It's like, No, that's not what we're talking about.

你得为训练补充营养，让大脑知道：嗯，我摄入的营养足够了。

You fuel for the work, so your brain goes, Yes, I have enough nutrition coming in.

我可以胜任这项训练。

I can do this work.

我能适应。

I can adapt to it.

我能变得更强。

I can get stronger.

所以下次你去锻炼的时候，身体就已经准备好发力了。

So then the next time you go in, your body is primed and ready to go.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得很多女性都陷入了一个有害的循环，以为少吃、不给身体足够营养，就能瘦下来。

Yeah, I think it's such a damaging cycle that so many women get into where they think that the solution is to eat less and to under fuel and that that's what's gonna get them the lean body that they want.

你其实是在说，这完全搞反了。

And kind of what you're saying is like, that's actually backwards.

当我们好好给身体补充营养，满足它的需求，身体才会感到安全，愿意做出改变，而不是紧紧抱住脂肪不放。

It's like when we can fuel our body well, when we can give it the things that it needs, it feels safe enough to be able to make those changes rather than hold on to the fat.

所以，任何觉得只要少吃就能瘦的人，都请认真听听斯泰西说的话。

And so for anybody who's listening who feels like the solution is just to eat less, like, really listen to what Stacy's saying.

这其实就是让你卡住的原因。

It's like, that's actually what's keeping you stuck.

它让你一直看不到成效。

It's keeping you in a place of of not being able to see results.

没错。

Exactly.

多吃点，反而能减脂。

Eat more and lose body fat.

对啊。

Right.

对女性来说，这是个三要素的关键点。

And it's a three bar concept for women to crash.

这确实很难，但有些我聊得最开心的对话，就是那些真正听进去的女性，她们回来告诉我：阿姆伯，我从来没在充分供能的状态下训练过，感觉完全不一样。

It's so hard, but you know, like some of the best, some of my most fun conversations are with women who take that to heart and they come back to me and they're like, Amber, I have never trained fully fueled and it feels completely different.

对那些从来没在能量充足的情况下去健身房的女性来说，一旦你这么做了，就会意识到自己以前错过了什么——你能练得更猛，感觉也好多了。

You know, like for a woman who has never shown up to the gym fully fueled with enough energy in her, and then you do that and you realize what you've been missing and how much more you can push and how much better you feel in the gym.

这简直就像天壤之别，尤其是关于碳水化合物对你能力的影响。

Like it's like night and day for what you're capable What of about carbohydrates?

我们之前简单聊过间歇性禁食。

So we talked a little bit about intermittent fasting.

也谈了练前和练后的营养，但碳水化合物呢？

We talked a little about pre and post workout nutrition, but what about carbohydrates?

女性和男性在代谢碳水化合物方面有区别吗？需求上有什么不同？

Are there any differences in how women metabolize carbohydrates or carbohydrate needs for males versus females?

是的，女性比男性需要更多的碳水化合物。

Yeah, women need more carbohydrate than men.

从运动供能的基本代谢机制来看，女性首先依赖血糖供能，然后才会转向利用游离脂肪酸。

And if we look at basic metabolic aspects of fueling for exercise, women go through blood sugar first, and then they'll get into free fatty acid use.

而男性则会先消耗一点血糖，接着主要动用肝糖原和肌糖原，最后才转向游离脂肪酸。

Whereas men will, a little bit of blood sugar fully into liver muscle glycogen, and then into free fatty acid use.

女性需要更多碳水，就是为了维持血糖稳定，得有足够的碳水供应。

The women need more carbohydrate, just have more carb available to maintain blood glucose homeostasis.

如果我们没有足够的碳水化合物，身体根本没法进入燃脂状态，因为肝脏和其他调节机制会提醒我们：等等，不能动用脂肪，万一身体需要碳水来维持生存呢？

And we can't get into fat burning if we don't have carbohydrate available because the liver and some other feedback mechanisms will be like, Hey, wait a second, nope, we're not getting into that fat because we might need it to survive.

所以我们确实需要碳水化合物。

So we need carbohydrate.

不幸的是，女性普遍碳水和蛋白质摄入都不足。

And unfortunately women are undercarbed and under protein.

这才是最大的问题。

And that's the big problem.

说到碳水化合物，我们指的可不是那些高度加工的食品。

And when we're talking about carbohydrates as well, we're not talking about ultra processed stuff.

别听那些运动营养品的宣传，什么能量胶啊、补剂啊，动不动就说‘用这个吧，效果好’。

Don't go with the sport nutrition, the goos and all that kind of stuff, marketing to say, Hey, yeah, yeah, use this.

我不是在说这个。

No, that's not what I'm talking about.

我说的是真正的食物，就吃这些。

I'm talking about like real food, use it.

碳水化合物非常重要。

And carbohydrates, super, super important.

我们当然可以根据每天的活动量调整碳水摄入量，但千万别被健身圈里那种对碳水的恐惧给误导了。

Yes, we can vary the amount of carb that we're having in a day depending on what our activity levels are, but don't have that carb phobia that's so pervasive throughout the fitness world at the moment.

这话说得真好。

Yeah, that's really, really good.

我想再聊聊你之前提到的高强度训练。

I want to talk a little bit about going back to where you're talking about training hard.

我经常听到业内人士说，HIIT对身体负担太大了。

And something that I keep hearing people say in the industry is like, know, HIIT is like too it's too hard on your body.

会给身体带来太多压力。

It's too much stress on your body.

会让皮质醇水平过高。

It's too much cortisol on your body.

但我记得你提到过，从生理角度来说，女性完全有能力连续进行多天高强度训练，关键是要有足够的休息和恢复。

And I have heard you say that, you know, physiologically women are able to have as many back to back to back to back hard training days that we do need that rest and recovery.

你能谈谈针对女性的一般建议吗？比如在制定训练计划时，如何平衡训练强度和休息时间，既保证足够的训练刺激来增肌，又不至于休息过多。

So can you kind of talk a little bit about just some general recommendations for women when they're talking about putting together a training plan and they want as optimal of a training plan that has enough rest, but not too much rest because it pushes enough in the gym and they're getting enough of each of the aspects to be able to put on muscle.

那在训练安排上，比如每周练几天、能高强度练几次，有什么推荐的模式吗？

What are we looking at in terms of like a training split or number of days that we can go hard?

需要安排多少天恢复休息比较合适？

How many recovery days do we need?

当然，这些都是通用建议，但……

And obviously this is general recommendations, but

嗯

So

我想了解一下

curious about

女性由于生理特点，不容易疲劳。

women, by the nature of being women, are less fatiguable.

所以我们组间休息的时间可以更短一些。

So we need less recovery between our sets.

但从日常角度来看，这些细微差别就开始显现了。

But from a day to day perspective, this is where we start to see these nuances.

如果你还没到更年期，那么你比更年期前后能承受更多高强度训练日。

If you're premenopausal, then you can probably get away with more intense days than when you're peri and postmenopausal.

但我们也要清楚，什么才真正算得上高强度间歇训练。

But we also have to be very aware of what we quantify as HIIT.

很多女性去健身房参加搏击操课，或者练F45，或者其他功能性训练课程。

So a lot of women will go to the gym and they'll take a bootcamp class, or they might do F45, or they might do some other functional fitness class.

这些都不算真正的高强度间歇训练。

That is not true HIIT.

它们让你处在一种现代人常见的高强度状态，这种强度其实不够极致，反而无法有效刺激身体变化。

What that does is it puts you squarely in modern intensity where it's too hard to actually be hard enough to invoke change.

我的意思是，这种强度太高了，反而达不到效果——我刚才说反了。

I mean, yeah, it's too hard for it to be no, I'll backtrack that.

我们说的是高强度间歇训练。

We're talking about hit.