大型科技公司疯狂的秘密AI支出、Anthropic与OpenAI排名对比、AI在旅行领域的争议

而且我，我，这很难说，但我觉得这会是这件事最有趣的部分。

And I I it's it's very hard to say, but I think that's gonna be the interesting part of this.

哦，当然。

Oh, definitely.

我是说，我觉得我们在节目里已经聊过很多次了，要让这一切顺利发展，很多参与者真的需要做到完美执行。

I mean, I think we've talked about on the show numerous times that you need perfect execution really by many of the players here for this all to work out.

如果执行不到位，那事情就会变得有点意思，而且对某些参与者来说可能会非常艰难。

And if the execution is not perfect, then that's when things get, you know, somewhat interesting and probably very rough for some of the players involved.

而且我们就是不太清楚那会是什么样子。

And we just we don't exactly know what that looks like.

但考虑到我们看到的这些数字规模，要实现这一切，必须发生一些非同寻常的事情。

But with the size of the numbers that we're seeing, some extraordinary things have to happen in order for this.

你知道吗，这几乎让我想起了软着陆或者不着陆的情景。

You know, it's it's almost reminds me of like the soft landing scenario or the no landing scenario.

对吧？

Right?

美联储正试图降低通胀。

That the Fed is trying to get inflation down.

这就像需要很多事情都顺利发展，才能实现目标。

It's like you need so many things to go right That's you're going have a

一个好的类比。

a good corollary.

是软着陆吗？

Is there a soft landing?

还是不着陆？

Is there no landing?

我觉得这样想很好，而且这些不同情景会是什么样子，我认为我们会经常讨论这个，特别是八月二十一号，Anthropic据说下个月要上市。

I think that's a good way to think about it and what do those different scenarios look like is, I think we're going to be talking a lot about that, especially as August 21 and Anthropic is supposedly coming out to the market next month.

我觉得我们会开始看到更多具体的数字，来支撑整个故事。

I think we're gonna start seeing a lot more concrete, numbers assigned to this whole story.

对。

Yeah.

不管怎么说，我只想说说我的看法，因为过去几周我一直在想这个问题。

For what it's worth, I just wanna state my perspective on this because I have been thinking about over the past couple weeks.

然后我们会聊到Anthropic、IPO、营收数字，还有OpenAI的营收数字。

And then we're going get to the Anthropic and IPO and revenue numbers and OpenAI revenue numbers.

我开始觉得，AI其实只有三种真正的结局。

I I'm starting to think there's really only three true outcomes for AI.

第一种是AI有效，而且结果是好的。

Like, one is AI works and and it's good.

对吧？

Right?

就是带来经济繁荣，还能让疾病减少。

So it leads to economic prosperity and, like, a rollback of disease.

第二种是AI有效，但结果是坏的。

The other is AI works and and it's bad.

比如，我们会看到更多那种恶意黑客活动，而且这些技术落到坏人手里，可能会导致生物武器之类的东西。

So, like, we start to see more of, the the rogue hacking activity that we've seen, and it gets in the hands of bad actors, and it leads to, like, bioweapons and things like that.

或者第三种可能的结果是，AI根本不行。

Or the third possible outcome is that AI doesn't work.

我确实一直在纠结这个问题。

And I'd I'm I've really struggled.

比如那种软着陆的想法，我真的很难看到它实现。

Like, the idea of this soft landing, I struggle to see it.

如果AI不行的话，已经有那么多钱投入到这个系统里，肯定会引发某种危机。

Like, if AI doesn't work, there's been so much money tied up into this system that there's gonna be some form of crisis.

所以我真的觉得，等我的《大科技》通讯恢复更新后，大概在劳动节之后，我会写一篇关于这个的文章。

So I really see it as and I'm gonna I think I'll write about this on Big Technology when I get the newsletter back up and running, probably like post Labor Day.

但我真的认为这里只有三种真正可能的结果。

But I I really see it as three three true outcomes here.

你怎么看？

What do you

你觉得呢？

think about that?

我要以编辑的身份说，我强烈不同意你提出的三种可能结果的框架。

I'm gonna be your editor and say that I vehemently disagree with your framing of three possible outcomes.

因为我觉得，好。

Because I think Good.

好。

Good.

好。

Good.

对。

Yeah.

因为，因为我们一直在讨论的这一切，完全独立于你列出的那三种情景。

Because because this everything we have been talking about is completely independent of the three scenarios that you outlined.

就是说，如果它成功了并且是好的，或者成功了但是坏的，实际上可以完全独立于数据中心在未来几年是否运作良好，以及是否能让债券持有人得到偿付，因为它可能在更长的时间段内运作，也可能成功，但随后由于创新，实际的计算需求大幅下降，然后数据中心的故事失败了，但AI要么在治愈疾病，要么在入侵我们所有人的银行账户。

It's it's it's if it like, if it works and it's good or it works and it's bad, actually can be totally independent of will data centers work over the next few years and be able to actually make bond holders whole on their because it could work over a longer time period, it could work, but then the actual compute requirements because of innovation dramatically decrease and then, actually the data center story fails, but AI is either curing diseases or hacking into all of our bank accounts.

所以，我们认为我们讨论的故事和那些可能的结果是两件非常非常不同的事情。

So think they're two very very separate things, the story that we're talking about and those possible outcomes.

我觉得这和整个融资故事是独立的，或者说是分开的。是的，这三个结果确实涵盖了所有可能性。但我也对治愈疾病这个说法有点厌倦了。

I think independent or separate from the whole financing story, I think yes, those are three outcomes that kind of cover the entirety of anything and like but I also the curing diseases thing, I'm kind of tired of.

我这么说只是因为，这感觉像是Dario和其他人一直依赖的拐杖，只是为了说，各位，请喜欢我们。

And I say this only because that feels like such a crutch that Dario and everyone just keeps falling back to just to be like, Guys, please like us.

我们会治愈疾病。

We'll cure disease.

我们还没有提出任何具体的方法，能真正让我们实现这个目标，但你们应该喜欢AI，因为它会治愈疾病。

We haven't outlined any possible way of like any concrete things that actually are gonna get us there, but you should like AI because it's going to cure disease.

好的。

Okay.

正义是……首先，我们要加上第四个可能的结果，那就是AI有效，但进展太慢，导致金融崩溃。

Justice is something that So first of all, we'll add a fourth potential outcome is that AI works, but it works too slowly and it causes financial collapse.

这就对了。

There we go.

这就……这就是……

There we That's

第四个结果。

the fourth outcome.

我挺好的。

I'm good.

但关于疾病这件事，我非常不同意你的看法。

But I very much disagree with you about this disease thing.

我是说，AlphaFold，我知道它一直被讨论很久了。

I mean, AlphaFold, I know it's been kind of talked about forever.

但像你提到的一些个性化医疗的例子，也许不是治愈，而是可以控制。

But like some of these personalized health care examples that you're getting, maybe it's not cured, could be managed.

这些例子很难反驳。

They're very, very difficult to argue with.

而且我个人觉得，它可能会变得非常重要，而且投入其中的关注度也很大。

And I personally like I think that it could be very big in a way that and the amount of focus that's going into it

不。

No.

不。

No.

但是。

But

在实验室内部，我觉得这确实不能轻易忽视。

within the labs, to me, I think it's it's not worth, you know, sort of waving away.

不。

No.

不。

No.

但我坚信，AI 会在罕见病和整个疾病领域带来巨大的进步和创新。

But I I firmly believe that AI will bring tremendous progress and innovation around rare disease, disease as a whole.

我坚信这一点。

I firmly believe that.

但这并不能说明为什么 Anthropic 的 IPO 应该成功，或者你为什么应该特别看好 Anthropic。

I don't think that tells a story about why Anthropic's IPO should succeed or you should like Anthropic specifically.

那些CEO把它当成拐杖，这才是我看不惯的地方。

Them, those CEOs using it as kind of a crutch, that's what I have the problem with.

我觉得如果你是大学教授，研究大语言模型如何解析罕见病相关的大量非结构化数据，那才是未来，那很棒，那才是最动人的故事。

I think if you're a university professor doing research on how large language models can kind of like parse through mass amounts of unstructured data around rare disease, that is the future and that's great and that is the most beautiful story to tell.

如果你是Dario，担心着比如……或者甚至Sam，记得吗，我觉得OpenAI现在越来越频繁地谈论这个，因为他们的企业故事，我们待会儿会讲到，进展并不顺利。

If you're Dario and you're worried about like where or even Sam remember, I feel OpenAI has been kind of like talking about this more and more now because like their enterprise story, which we'll get into, is not going great.

所以这又是一个，就是那种，对于这些非常成熟的企业来说，有点像是画大饼的东西。

So it's like another one where it's just it's and again, it's like moonshoddy type stuff when for these very mature businesses.

所以这就是我的吐槽。

So that's that's the rant there.

对。

Yeah.

但你不觉得那会有经济价值吗？

But you don't think that's gonna be economically valuable?

我觉得会有。

I think it will be.

我不觉得他们今天展示了什么跟他们业务特别相关的东西，能让他们更有可能做成这件事。

Don't think I don't think they have shown anything specific to their business today that makes them anymore I don't know, like, they're going to be the ones to do this.

我觉得吧，

I think like

初创公司，

startups,

或者某家中国公司，都有可能。

some Chinese company, whatever.

现在就是人人都有机会。

It's like everyone it is open season.

这挺好的，让我挺兴奋的，但这就是我的吐槽，我会在接下来的IPO季里一直说个不停。

It's like which is good, that's exciting to me, but that's my that's my rant, which I'll continue for weeks on end as we head into IPO season.

好的。

Okay.

我喜欢这个。

I love it.

我很喜欢。

I love it.

好了。

Alright.

我们吊胃口吊得够久了。

We've teased it enough.

休息回来之后，我们要聊聊Anthropic和OpenAI的新数据，看起来Anthropic在猛涨，而OpenAI嘛，我们到时候再说。

When we come back from the break, we're gonna talk about Anthropic and OpenAI's new numbers where it seems like Anthropic is surging and OpenAI is well, we'll get to it.

广告之后马上回来。

Back right after this.

本期节目由DeepL赞助播出。

This episode is brought to you by DeepL.

最近我在YouTube上采访DeepL的创始人Yara Kudliovski时，我们聊到了专用AI的话题。

When I sat down with DeepL's founder, Yara Kudliovski, on YouTube recently, we got into the case for specialized AI.

DeepL Voice就是当对话是实时进行时的那种样子，说实话，我真希望自己以前做跨境采访的时候就有这个，能把语言障碍变成不是问题。

DeepL Voice is what it looks like when the stakes are real time conversation, and honestly, it's something I wish I'd had for my own cross border interviews, turning a language barrier into a non issue.

DeepL Voice 提供超过40种语言的实时翻译，适用于虚拟会议和面对面交流，帮助人们用自己偏好的语言说话，而不失流畅和细腻。

DeepL Voice delivers live translation in over 40 languages for virtual meetings and in person conversations, helping people speak in their preferred language without losing flow or nuance.

无论你是会见客户、与供应商谈判，还是与全球同事协作，它都能实时跟上你的节奏，轻松处理你业务中特有的技术术语、缩写和产品名称，确保你的真实意图永远不会在翻译中丢失。

Whether you're meeting with a customer, negotiating with a supplier, or collaborating with global colleagues, it keeps pace with you in real time, easily handling the technical terms, acronyms, and product names specific to your business, so what you actually mean never gets lost in translation.

对于正在听节目的开发者们，DeepL 的语音 API 可以让你直接将实时语音转录和翻译嵌入到你的产品中。

And for the builders listening, DeepL's voice API lets you embed real time speech transcription and translation directly into your products.

所以，快去亲自体验一下吧。

So go check it out for yourself.

你可以在 deepl.com/tryvoice 免费试用 DeepL Voice。

You can try DeepL voice for free at deepl.com/tryvoice.

网址是 deepl.com/tryvoice。

That's deepl.com/tryvoice.

夏天总是会改变我的穿衣方式。

Summer always changes how I get dressed.

我想要那些感觉更轻盈、更舒适，但仍然得体的单品。

I want pieces that feel lighter and more comfortable, but still put together.

这就是Kintz登场的时候。

That's where Kintz comes in.

他们专注于制作精良的基础款，采用透气的亚麻和柔软的有机棉，这种基本款你会一直想回购。

They focus on well made essentials in breathable linen and soft organic cotton, the kind of basics you will keep coming back to.

所有商品的价格比同类品牌低50%到80%，因为他们直接与道德工厂合作，所以你付的是品质钱，而不是品牌溢价。

Everything is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories, so you're paying for quality, not brand markup.

就我个人而言，在空调房和夏日高温之间切换，一件来自Kinst的轻便拉链连帽衫真的改变了我的生活。

Personally, moving between AC and summer heat, a lightweight zip down sweatshirt from Kinst has been a life changer.

升级你的日常穿搭。

Upgrade your everyday.

下载Kinstack应用获取专属优惠，或者访问kinst.com/bigtech。

Download the Kinstack for app exclusive offers, or go to kinst.com/bigtech.

享受订单免运费和365天退货服务。

Get free shipping on your order and three hundred sixty five day returns.

现在在加拿大和英国也有售。

Now available in Canada and The UK too.

网址是 quince.com/bigtech。

That's quince.com/bigtech.

本期节目由 AvPoint 赞助播出。

This episode is brought to you by AvPoint.

现在大家都在争着推出 AI。

Everyone's racing to roll out AI right now.

副驾驶、聊天机器人、还有真正干活的智能体。

Copilots, chatbots, agents doing real work.

但有个部分大家都不太愿意提。

But here's the part nobody loves talking about.

所有这些 AI 都跑在你的数据上，而大多数团队都没有一个统一的方法来查看、保护并证明这些数据是可控的。

All that AI runs on your data, and most teams have no single way to see it, secure it, and prove it's under control.

这正是 AvPoint 做的事情。

That's exactly what AvPoint does.

二十五年来，他们一直是全球要求最严苛的数据背后的可信赖层，现在这个层已经扩展到你的整个 AI 体系，包括你的数据、你的云，以及代表你行动的智能体。

For twenty five years, they've been the trusted layer beneath the world's most demanding data, now extended across your entire AI estate, your data, your cloud, and the agents acting on your behalf.

这就是超过两万八千家机构能够放心部署AI的方式，让创新规模化，而风险不会跟着扩大。

It's how more than 28,000 organizations deploy AI with confidence, so innovation scales without scaling risk.

它是一个统一的平台，而不是一堆零散的工具，把安全、治理和韧性都整合在一起。

It's a single platform instead of a pile of tools, bringing security, governance, resilience altogether.

AvPoint，AI的统一信任层。

AvPoint, the unifying trust layer for AI.

更多信息请访问 a vpt.co/bigtechnology podcast。

Learn more at a vpt.co/bigtechnology podcast.

网址是 a vpt.co/bigtechnology podcast。

That's a vpt.co/bigtechnology podcast.

欢迎回到Big Technology播客，周五版，和Margins的Ranjan Roy一起。

And we're back here on Big Technology podcast, Friday edition with Ranjan Roy of Margins.

好的。

Alright.

我们来聊聊休息前提到的那些数字，看看Anthropic和OpenAI已经开始透露的收入情况。

Let's talk a little bit about the numbers that we teased before the break, looking at Anthropic and OpenAI's, revenue that have started to leak.

这里，这是来自彭博社的消息。

Here, this is from Bloomberg.

Anthropic的年化收入在IPO前超过了650亿美元。

Anthropic's annualized revenue topped 65,000,000,000 before IPO.

Anthropic目前的表现有望实现年收入超过650亿美元，相比去年年底的速度增长了七倍多。

Anthropic is on track to generalize annual revenue of more than 65,000,000,000 based on its current performance, up more than seven pull sevenfold from its pace at the end of last year.

到7月底，公司的年化收入达到了650亿美元。

The company's rate rate run rate hit 65,000,000,000 by the end of July.

收入的急剧加速增长增强了Anthropic的底气。

The dramatic acceleration in revenue bolsters.

Anthropic计划上市，已和OpenAI秘密提交了上市文件，预计Anthropic最早今年秋天就会在华尔街亮相，领先于OpenAI。

Anthropic's plans for a public listing, Anthropic and OpenAI filed confidential paperwork to go public with Anthropic expected to make its Wall Street debut as soon as this fall ahead of, OpenAI.

所以本季度收入为115亿美元，而2025年同期为7.87亿美元。

So the on the quarter, 1, 11,500,000,000, compared with $787,000,000 in the corresponding period in 2025.

好了，这就是那些数字。

Alright, that's those numbers.

顺便说一句，他们一直在说这家公司增长得特别快。

By the way, they say a lot, this company is growing like exceptionally fast.

而且我们现在看到的数据更像是真正的财务报表，有季度收入，不只是年化运行率，我知道你讨厌那个。

And we have numbers that that are look more like real financial statements, quarterly revenue, not just run rate, which I know you hate.

你对Anthropic的增长有什么看法？

Your reaction here to Anthropic's growth.

这让我更期待有一天能看到你所说的更符合真实财务报表的数据，但我们还没到那一步，因为，好吧，这里有两部分。

I am this made me even more excited about the day we get to see you said more in line with financial, real financial statements but we're not quite there yet because again, okay, two parts of this.

第一，天哪，这就像是在让我们倒推你7月和8月的收入，而你却说，好吧，截至6月30日的季度，我们赚了115亿美元，但年化运行率是650亿，所以收入加速了多少？这就像是在倒推计算，而不是直接说，这是我们在4月、5月和7月赚的，这是图表，显示它在向右上方增长。

One, my God still it's like trying to make us backward calculate your July and August revenue when you're like, well actually quarter ending June 30, we made $11,500,000,000 but it's a $65,000,000,000 run rate, so what was the revenue acceleration like trying to backwards calculate that versus just saying, here's what we made in April and May and July and here's a graph that shows it's going up into the right.

这才是应该发生的，因为再说一次，一个季度5亿美元，显然是在加速，但那仍然不是一年650亿，我不知道，我真的很期待真实数据的公布。

That's what should be happening because again, 500,000,000 in a quarter, obviously if it's accelerating but that's still not 65,000,000,000 over a one year period like, I don't know, we're I'm excited for real numbers to come out.

我希望它们能公布出来。

I hope they come out.

我有点觉得，这次IPO被炒得这么热，他们会不会直接说，不，不上市了。

There's part of me that's like, is this IPO so hyped that they could just be like, nope.

就算上市了，他们可能还是只给我们模糊的年化收入数字，而且居然还能蒙混过关。

We're only gonna give you vague run rate numbers even as a public company somehow, and they get away with it.

但我对这些数字还是不太放心。

But I'm not comfortable with these numbers yet.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得他们不可能做到那样。

I don't see how they could how could they ever do that.

我一直很好奇这类报道里的数字是怎么来的。

I'm always curious how the numbers come out in in stories like this.

你觉得这些数字会作为定期更新的一部分提供给投资者，但还有一种可能，就是他们上市时，彭博那篇报道的消息来源是“知情人士”，听起来像是Anthropic自己递出来的。

Now you think we'll have the numbers as come part of its regular update with investors, but there's also the prospect that they're going public and the sourcing in the Bloomberg story is according to people familiar with the matter, which sounds like it might have been delivered in an envelope from Anthropic.

虽然我因为猜测被批评了，但真的，不是那样。

Although I'm getting trouble for speculating, but it's like No.

不是。

No.

但是

But

把数字放出来，对Anthropic确实有好处，可以吓退OpenAI，让他们不敢抢在前面上市。

really in Anthropic's interest to get the numbers out there to scare OpenAI away from trying to go public before them.

不知道。

Don't know.

你怎么看？

What do you think?

不不。

No, no.

每次遇到这种情况，我以前做直接面向消费者的电商时，也经历过准备IPO的过程。

Whenever this happens, when I was in my past direct to consumer ecommerce experience, was part of potential IPO proceeding.

保密程度非常高，要是我们哪怕跟老婆、家人、朋友透露一点数字，都会被银行家们骂死。

The level of secure like, if we were to ever even say figures to our wives and families and friends, we would get annihilated by the bankers.

所有人都想尽办法防止任何数字泄露给媒体。

Everyone did everything they could to prevent any kind of leaking of any figure to the press.

而且，你看，每次都很巧，我们都能看到这些数字，这很明显是Anthropic在公园里搞的公关秀，一切都是精心策划的。

And meanwhile, like, every conveniently at any moment, I mean, we're all seeing these numbers like this is a very and again Anthropic sandwich in the park, are coms masters, like all this stuff is orchestrated.

我觉得这肯定是有意为之，不管是投资者提供的信封还是其他人，因为几乎可以肯定，如果这些数字真的是泄露的，那应该追究Anthropic内部和负责IPO的银行家的责任。但这种情况已经持续一段时间了，我们以前记得估值不会公开与融资轮挂钩，那本来是投资者在竞争领域中的筹码，现在却成了公开的秘密。

I can't like it has to be and whether it's an investor providing that envelope or whoever else like, because almost by definition, if this number were truly leaked, should be held to pay within Anthropic, within the bankers that are actually working on this IPO, but this has happened for a while now, we're like, again, in the past remember valuations didn't weren't attached publicly to a funding round, that was supposed to be like, actually like leverage for investors in a competitive space and now it's a given that that's gonna come out.

所以，是的。

So yeah.

我觉得，实际上，我认为这不仅仅是猜测。

I I think I actually think I don't think that's just speculation.

我认为这确实是这个故事被报道的一个重要部分。

I think that's actually an important part of how this story does get reported.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得这确实有点内行人的感觉，但我觉得我们有责任在这里聊聊这类事情背后的运作方式。

I think it's you know, it does feel inside baseball a little bit, but it's I think it's our duty here to sort of talk through sort of how the sausage is made in situations like this.

所以我很高兴我们聊到了这个话题。

So I'm really I'm glad that we covered it.

现在基本上，Anthropic 看起来有望在今年秋天上市，那也不远了，虽然现在北半球还挺暖和的。

And now if basically, Anthropic is seemingly on track to IPO this fall, which is not so far away, even though it's it's warm in the Northern Hemisphere now.

离秋天凉爽的日子也不远了，我们可能会看到 Anthropic 的 IPO，说不定 Dario 会去敲钟。

We're not too far away for the crispy days of fall, and we could be seeing an Anthropic IPO with potentially Dario ringing the bell.

那得多疯狂啊？

How crazy would that be?

Dario 会去敲钟吗？

Does Dario ring the bell?

敲钟这种事，对他来说是不是太普通了？

Does that feel too pedestrian to ring the bell?

我是说，也许吧，你会不会觉得……因为我不太确定。

I mean, maybe does you do you sort of because I don't know.

会不会是 Claude 去敲钟？

Does Claude do it?

那听起来太老套了。

That seems cliche.

他会敲钟的。

He'll ring it.

他会敲钟的。

He'll ring it.

他只能敲一次、两次或三次。

He only get to do it once or twice or three times.

但我不确定。

But I don't know.

也许让Claude来敲钟。

Maybe maybe Claude ringing the bell.

我不知道那会是什么样子。

I don't know how that what that's gonna look like.

机械臂上挂着一个智能体。

Robotic arm with an agent attached to it.

这就是我想看到的。

That's what I wanna see.

这就是我想看到的。

That's what I wanna see.

对。

Yeah.

那绝对是史上难得一见的画面。

That would be seriously a a visual for the ages.

好了。

All right.

我们来看看OpenAI，因为他们的第二季度数据也公开了。

Let's move over to OpenAI because we also have their second quarter numbers, which just so happened to make it out into the public as well.

据《华尔街日报》报道，OpenAI告诉投资者，他们的收入从第一季度到第二季度增长了18%，但亏损也在扩大。

And this from the Wall Street Journal, OpenAI told investors its revenue grew by 18% from the first quarter to the second quarter while its losses deepened.

这一结果让一些股东感到失望，他们原本希望这家初创公司能在追赶竞争对手Anthropic方面取得更多进展。

Results had disappointed some shareholders who had hoped that the startup would show more progress catching up to rival Anthropic.

抱歉。

Sorry.

听起来像是投资者泄露的。

That sounds like the investors leaked it.

我不知道。

I don't know.

看起来不像OpenAI自己决定公布的。如果OpenAI真的发布了这些数字，他们可能对报道的角度不太满意。

Doesn't seem like OpenAI decided that that if if OpenAI did put those numbers out, they're probably not happy with how it was framed.

对。

No.

没错。

Exactly.

而且，还有报道说，Sarah Fryer在全员大会上提到，他们要到2027年才会IPO。

And, again, there's reporting that Sarah Fryer in an all hands said that they're not IPO until 2027.

就是说，OpenAI，好吧。

Like, OpenAI okay.

我们俩都猜错了。

We were both off.

丹尼斯·德雷瑟辞去首席营收官一职，而且，你知道，这个对我来说感触更深，因为我做企业AI这块。我可以告诉你，当时在场的每个人，包括我，都惊得下巴掉地上了。因为才上任八个月，这位首席营收官，背景非常出色，我记得是Slack的CEO，对吧。

Denise Dresser leaving as chief revenue officer, and again, I know this one hits closer to home for me working in enterprise AI and I can say that this writer like everyone was like jaws hitting the floor because eight months into the job, the chief revenue officer who is like a stellar background in was I think Slack CEO yes.

你觉得那边到底发生了什么？

Under I mean, what what do you think is going on over there?

你觉得是怎么回事？

What do you think is going on?

这个问题我已经等了一个月想问你了。

Been waiting to ask you this for a month now.

所以不只是德雷瑟一个人。

So it's not just Dresser.

对吧？

Right?

这是来自那篇期刊文章的消息。

So this is a this is from this journal story.

上周，公司更换了首席营收官丹尼斯·德雷瑟，她上任还不到一年。

Last week, the company replaced its chief revenue officer Denise Dresser after she spent less than a year on the job.

她的离职之前已经有一连串其他高管离开，包括前首席运营官布拉德·莱特卡普，以及曾被视为山姆·奥特曼接班人的菲吉·西莫。

Her departure followed a string of other exits, including former chief operating officer Brad Lightcap and Fiji Simo once seen as the heir apparent to chief executive Sam Altman.

所以确实有很多人离职。

So it is a lot of departures.

菲吉当然是因为健康原因，但布拉德·莱特卡普的离开是个大事。

Fiji, of course, health related reasons, but Brad Lightcap is a big one.

你看。

Look.

我觉得这其实就是他们在编码方面被Anthropic狠狠打击的后果。

I think this is just the consequences of them, you know, really getting their butt kicked by Anthropic on the way to coding.

他们花了几个月时间调整方向，把重心放在Codex上，而Codex还在发布过程中。

And they've taken a few months to sort of turn their ship and focus it on Codex, which is still in the process of of being released.

所以，你知道，他们在七月份左右就推出了第一个版本。

So, you know, they got their first draft out of it before, you know, in sometime in July.

现在他们要开始优化了。

And now they're going to refine.

但这显然是一种非常强大且利润丰厚的人工智能形式。

But this is obviously a very powerful and very lucrative form of artificial intelligence.

而他们目前处于劣势。

And they are behind the eight ball right now.

所以当这种情况发生时，是的，收入增长往往会比人员增长慢。

So when that happens, yeah, revenue tends to grow more slowly than the arrivals.

我的意思是，这个季度赚了70亿美元。

I mean, made 7,000,000,000 in the quarter.

这不算

It's not

差。

bad.

对。

Yeah.

但那不是

But that's not

但那会引发动荡。

But that leads to tumult.

但动荡是一回事，拜戈利又是另一回事。

But there's tumult, and then there's bygali.

因为那就像

Because that's like

我们这一集里会迎来第二个拜戈利。

We're gonna get a second bygali in one episode.

好吗？

Okay?

我觉得那个拜戈利，三位高管离职。

I think the the by golly, three senior executives leaving.

而且不只是高管，尤其是那个本该像斐济一样的人，还有丹尼斯，比如企业才是未来。

Also, not just senior executives, each the one that is supposed to be like especially Fiji and then Denise, like, enterprise is the future.

我们会专注于此，等等等等。

We're gonna focus, etcetera, etcetera.

这些人就是负责这些工作的。

These are the people leading those efforts.

而且你的业务并没有在崩溃。

Like and you're not your business isn't collapsing.

我不知道。

I don't know.

对我来说，而且，如果你真的在实施一个宏伟计划，要把我们生活中最大的消费故事之一转向企业市场，你会得到超过八个月的时间。

To me, like and also, like, if you were to be executing on some giant vision to pivot one of the biggest consumer stories of our lives into enterprise, you would get more than eight months.

而且，八个月内根本不可能完成。

Like you would that does not happen in eight months anyways.

再说，她来了之后，即使离职过程，你知道，也不是一瞬间发生的。

And again, for her to come in and then even the leaving process, you know it's not it doesn't happen in a moment.

这需要几周甚至几个月的时间。

Like, it's gonna happen over weeks and months.

所以，我也不太清楚。

So, like, I don't know.

对我来说，这才是最让人想不通的地方。

Like, that to me, that's the part that is just still kinda crazy.

就是整个时间点。

That timing of all of it.

对。

Yeah.

嗯，我有个想法，想跟你聊聊。

Well, I have I have a theory on this, and I kinda wanna run run it by you.

不是什么特别劲爆的，但跟组织架构有关。

It's not like anything too juicy, but it is organizational.

对吧？

Right?

所以，公司会经历——我也待过快节奏的初创公司。

So, like, companies, they go through and I've been a part of fast growing startups.

我了解你。

I know you.

对。

Yeah.

我至少经历过两家这样的公司。

I have at least two of them.

我知道你过去是这样，现在也是。

I know you have in the past and are now.

你不觉得吗，创业公司的运作方式就是，有一批领导从几乎没钱的时候一直带到一千万。

Don't you like, in the way that startups work is there's a certain group of leaders that are there from, like, you know, sort of no money to 10,000,000.

然后还有一批人从一千万带到一亿，再有一批人从一亿带到五亿。

Then there's, like, a certain group that's there from 10,000,000 to a 100 and a certain group from a 100 to, like, 500.

对吧？

Right?

所以，在创业公司工作的混乱之一就是领导层不断更替，因为先是有想法的人，然后是有能力把你从A轮带到B轮的人。

So you're so part of the chaos of working for a startup is constant leadership to not turnover because there's the people with the idea, then there's the people that notice sort of take you from, like, series a to series b.

所以，他们开始把一些流程标准化，也开始真正地规范你的高速增长。

So there's, like, they start to standardize some of the processes, and they start to, like, really structure your hyper growth.

然后你会引进一些来自大公司的更有经验的高管，他们把你的初创公司变成大公司。

And then you bring in, like, more seasoned executives from bigger companies who, like, turn your startup into a big company.

对吧？

Right?

所以，你知道，在初创公司工作，有一天，那个雇用你的人，你在他手下工作了好几个月的人，突然就不在了，这并不罕见。

And so like, you know, it's not uncommon to like work in a startup one day, the person that hired you, like, you've been like working underneath for months is gone.

然后会有新人进来，因为他们习惯和大型上市前公司合作，然后你上市了，又会有另一个人。

And there's like some new person that comes in because they're used to working with big pre IPO companies, and then you IPO and there's another person.

但这里没有，我只是想说说。

So but here's no, I just want to talk through.

我不是在找借口。

I'm not not excusing.

我只是想解释一下。

I just want to explain something.

OpenAI，你知道，就像这个周期里的一切一样，OpenAI正在把那个过程压缩到前所未有的最短时间内。

OpenAI is, you know, as as with everything in this cycle, OpenAI is compacting compacting that thing into the shortest amount of time that it ever has.

即使是超高速增长的初创公司，他们在这样做的时候，也会停下来喘口气，成长，再停下来喘口气，再成长。

Like even hyper growth startups, when they do that, they take a moment, they grow, they breathe, they take a moment, they grow, they breathe.

我是说，想想我们从Anthropic读到的数字，从不到10亿美元到一个季度115亿美元，可能在我们现在这个季度还会更多。

I mean, just think about the numbers we read from Anthropic, You know, under $1,000,000,000 to 11,500,000,000 in a quarter and maybe more in a in a quarter we're currently in.

对吧？

Right?

这太疯狂了。

It's crazy.

所以，你大概会看到这种疯狂的局面。

So that's sort of you get you get this kind of madness.

不。

No.

不。

No.

但我百分之百同意你的看法，因为我曾经在，而且现在也在一个增长非常快的初创公司里。

But I I 1000% agree with you having been and currently in a very fast growing scaling start up.

就是那种快速扩张的初创公司，你描述得太准确了。

Like scaling start up and that keyword start up, you described it perfectly.

这些公司追求的是两万亿美元的市值，比世界上绝大多数公司都要大。

These are companies that are seeking $2,000,000,000,000 market capitalization valuations that are bigger than the vast majority of companies in the world.

这根本不算初创公司了。

These are not startups.

而且如果他们想要那样的估值，至少在我看来，运营模式应该更接近上市前的初创公司，就像你说的，而不是那种B轮到C轮、C轮到D轮，还在试探市场的感觉。

And like if they want those valuations, you have to at least to me, like the operating model should be more in the line, at least pre IPO startup as you said, like, which they are, rather than that series b to c, c to d, kinda like testing the waters.

如果你想要那样的估值，就得表现出一点成熟度。

If you want that valuation, you gotta show a little bit of maturity.

他们可是在要两万亿美元啊。

This they're asking for 2,000,000,000,000.

对。

Yes.

好的。

Okay.

问题是这样的。

Here here's the thing.

它们在一个很重要的方面确实是初创公司。

They are startups in one really important way.

那就是，没错，它们的数字跟任何大企业一样大。

And that is like, yes, the numbers are as big as any enterprise company.

大多数。

Most.

对吧？

Right?

但初创公司的一个特点就是，你还没有完全确定你的产品。

But one of the things that defines a startup is you're not fully set on your product.

你知道，你成为一个成熟的公司，就像老问题说的，什么是初创公司，什么不是？

You know, you become an established people like the old question, well, what's a startup and what's not?

我的意思是，当你不再是一家初创公司时，就是你有了一个可以销售的产品，对吧？

I mean, of it is you sort of when you're not a startup anymore, when you have a thing that you sell, right?

而且它基本上就是那个固定的东西。

And it's just kind of the thing.

你找到了产品市场契合点，然后稳定下来。

You sort of find that product market fit and you settle into it.

这就是你现在的状态。

And that's what you are now.

当然，你会适应变化。

Of course, you adapt.

但OpenAI和Anthropic之所以具有初创公司的特性，是因为他们正在开发的技术还不成熟。

But the thing with OpenAI and Anthropic, by the way, that gives them the nature of a startup is there's the technology that they're developing is not mature.

它还在成长中。

It's still growing.

能力在快速增长。

The capabilities are growing fast.

产品也在快速发展。

The offering is growing fast.

所以即使数字看起来像大公司，你也没有传统大公司的那种稳定性。

So you don't have the stability of a traditional big company, even if the numbers look like you do.

这就是我想说的重点。

So this this is the kind of point I was gonna make.

当你引进像Slack前CEO丹尼斯·德雷瑟这样的人时——当然这只是我的猜测——

When you bring in somebody like Denise Dresser from Slack, and I'm just this is speculation.

当你引进像Slack前CEO这样的人时，那个人可能很适合处理数字方面的事情。

When you bring in somebody like this former CEO of Slack, that person is a good fit for the numbers.

但他们能适应那种混乱和摸索的阶段吗？

But are they a good fit for the chaos and the figuring it out part?

这就是为什么这些职位很难招人，也很难留住人，因为你要找的两种特质很难同时具备。

That is what's gonna make these roles so difficult to hire for and so difficult to keep people in because it doesn't really line up the two things that you're looking for.

好的。

All right.

不是。

No.

不是。

No.

不是。

No.

不是。

No.

这点我承认。

I'll give you that.

这点我承认，比如，企业级是未来吗？

I'll give you that that, like, is enterprise the future?

云业务是未来吗？

Is a cloud business the future?

个人设备、可穿戴设备或者家用产品呢？

Is personal devices or wearables or household?

比如，尤其是在OpenAI的情况下，非常开放。

Like, especially in the OpenAI case, wide open.

在那种“什么都可以”的意义上。

In that Anything sense

顺便说一句，那什么是企业呢？

that is, by the way, what is enterprise?

你在卖什么？

What are you selling?

这些是……

These are the

对。

Yeah.

不。

No.

这个问题很简单。

It's very easy question.

而且，这在我的领域里也是这样。

And again, that's in my world.

是不是把 Codex 卖给企业里的开发者，这是目前的故事吗？

Is it codex to developers within enterprises, which has been the current story?

还是知识工作，他们有点像在尝试进入聊天式 PT 工作的那种？

Is it knowledge work, which they're kind of like chatty PT work and trying to get into?

但没关系。

But that okay.

这很公平。

That's fair.

就像，他们和其他人一样，在某种意义上也是初创公司。

Like, they're a startup like anyone else in that sense.

对。

Yeah.

总之，我们拭目以待。

Anyway, we will see.

但我觉得这些报告的核心结论是，Anthropic 势头正猛，看起来它正在和 OpenAI 拉开差距。

But I think bottom line from these reports is Anthropic juggernaut en route to like, it seems like Anthropic is putting some distance between itself and OpenAI.

我也不确定。

And I don't know.

你知道，其实从今年年初开始，Anthropic 就明显领先了一点点，但现在这个差距好像越来越大了。

I I you know, it's sort of, you know, it was clear that Anthropic had a small lead, over the past you know, basically since the beginning of the year this year, but that that gap seems to seems to be growing.

这并不是说 OpenAI 没能力追上来或者再次超越 Anthropic，但至少从目前的局势来看，是的，Anthropic 正在和 OpenAI 拉开距离。

It's not to say an OpenAI isn't capable of closing it or surpassing Anthropic again, but at least when you look at the state of play right now, yeah, Anthropic is putting some distance between itself and OpenAI.

我觉得在成熟市场的 AI 应用方面，我想听听关于旅游的案例，因为我们接下来几周几个月都会聊 Anthropic 和 OpenAI，我想听你说说你坐在迪拜的酒店房间里，怎么论证旅游才是 Agentic 的正确应用场景，而且这没问题。

I think in terms of AI use cases in markets that are mature, I'd like to hear about travel because we're going be talking about Anthropic and OpenAI for a few So months and weeks on I wanna hear you're sitting in a Dubai hotel room.

我希望你来说服大家，旅游确实是 Agentic 的合适方向，而且这完全说得通。

I want you to pitch that actually travel is the right story for AgenTic, and that's okay.

好，那行。

So so okay.

对，在结束之前，我们得聊聊这个。

So, yeah, before we go, we have to talk about this.

Ranjan，你和我，我觉得我们之间一直有一种来回拉扯的关系，就是关于把旅行当作一个有价值的关键用例，它能告诉我们一些关于AI能力的事情。

Ranjan, you and I, think we've had, like, this back and forth relationship on talking about travel as, a worthwhile key use case that tells us something about AI's capabilities.

而且，你知道，在我们的峰会上，比如我提出了一个旅行用例，你就说，你知道，把这个留在门外吧，兄弟，或者类似的话。

And, you know, at our summit, for instance, like I brought up a travel use case, and you're like, you know, leave that at the door, man, or something of that nature.

而且我过去几周一直在旅行。

And I've been traveling over the past couple of weeks.

而且，你知道，我可能还会在通讯稿里再写一次这个。

And, you know, and I'm probably gonna write about this again in the newsletter.

但我认为，当评估AI能力时，旅行实际上是一个绝佳的试验场。

But I think that like travel, when it comes to assessing AIs capabilities, is actually an excellent proving ground.

好吧，我要用三个要点来论证这个观点。

Alright, I'm gonna make the case with three quick points.

第一个是，当你旅行的时候，你需要用某种东西来筛选大量信息，大量信息，做什么，住哪里，吃什么，怎么去，怎么回来，哪些天开门，哪些天不开。

The first one is when you're when you're traveling, you're you're you need to use something to sort through a lot of information, a lot of information, what to do, where to stay, what to eat, how to get there, how to get home, what days things are open on what they're not.

互联网，互联网，网页在这些事情上很糟糕。

The internet, the internet, the web is terrible for these things.

而且网上提供这些信息的人动机也很差，到处都是联盟链接和虚假评论网站。

And there are terrible incentives to provide the information for you, like all the affiliate links online and all the all the fake review sites.

所以我觉得这简直是生成式AI的用武之地，它能吸收所有信息，加上上下文，加上一点智能，然后以简洁的方式呈现给你。

So I think that this is like something that's kind of made for generative AI, which takes in all the information, adds context, adds a little intelligence, and then provides it to you in a succinct way.

第二点是，旅行中你面对的其实是一连串大大小小的任务，而且这些任务总是在变化。

The second thing is that with travel, what you're dealing with basically is a cascading series of small and big tasks that are always changing in some way.

所以我觉得，作为AI的测试场，旅行其实非常合适，因为它很像一些高风险的场景，比如你在工作中做项目。

So I think as an eval, so to speak, for AI, it's actually really good because it resembles, you know, some more high stakes type of cases where you're like, maybe at work and you're you're you're working a project.

项目里有什么呢？项目里也是一连串大大小小的任务，而且总是在变化。

Well, what does you have in a project, you have a cascading series of small and big tasks that are always changing in some way.

但旅行这个例子最好的地方在于，你可以在旅行中低成本地做更多实验，而不是像在工作中那样。

But the best thing about about the, you know, the travel example is that you can experiment more at lower cost on a travel on a trip than you can, let's say at work.

这是个很好的方式，如果AI在旅行任务上表现出色，那么作为评估，你就能更有信心，虽然它可能不会完美通过你的工作测试，但你会更放心把它用在更有经济价值的任务上，因为旅行处于我所说的“金发姑娘区”——重要但又不是特别重要的任务。

And that's a great way to and if AI aces, you know, your tasks there, you can you can, you know, looking at it again as an evaluation, you can be somewhat clear that it's going to, you know, maybe not ace your work test, but you can feel more comfortable putting it towards more economically valuable tasks because travel is in the what I'm going to call like the Goldilocks zone of important but not so important tasks.

所以旅行中如果你搞砸了什么事，那是真的有后果的。

So there's real stakes when you're traveling and you fail at something.

比如，如果你到了地方，发现你订的酒店其实是ChatGPT瞎编出来的，那确实有实际影响，但也不是什么灾难性的后果。

Like, if you show up and, like, the the hotel that you booked was actually hallucinated by Chatchipati, you know, there's real stakes, but it's not a disastrous stake.

你不会因此丢掉公司。

Like, you don't lose your company.

你顶多就是走几条街，重新订一家酒店，可能比预期多花点钱，但这事儿你扛得住。

You just kinda have to walk down, the block and book a different hotel maybe for a little bit more than you were anticipating to pay, but you can sort of survive that.

所以我觉得旅行真的是测试AI的绝佳场景。

That's why I think travel is such a great eval for AI.

而且说实话，今年旅行跟去年夏天比，我真切感受到了AI能力的提升，就拿最新版ChatGPT来说，我几乎把所有规划和后勤工作都交给它了。

And I certainly like, you know, traveling this year compared to last summer was really able to experience like the capability increase of, you know, let's just say, like, the latest versions of ChatGPT where I did, like, almost all the planning and logistics work.

你觉得呢？

What do you think?

你现在站我这边了吗？

Are you gonna are you on my side now?

你同意我的看法吗？

Are you with me?

我没事。

I okay.

我刚结束自己过去一个月的长途旅行回来，其实我不得不同意你的看法。

Just coming back from my own extended travels over the past month, I I actually am not gonna disagree with you.

我不会反对，我喜欢这个框架。

I'm not gonna I like the framing.

我喜欢把旅行作为评估标准的这个框架。

I like the framing travel as the eval.

实际上我挺喜欢这个想法的。

I actually kind of love that in fact.

说实话，我觉得我们需要更多贴近普通人的评估，而不是那些最新的基准测试。

Honestly, I believe there needs to be more actual normie evals as opposed to whatever latest benchmark there is.

我们应该构建一个涵盖康托罗维奇、TripAdvisor、旅行预订、通勤、Google Flights的评估体系。

The cantorowicz, TripAdvisor, travel booking, comming, Google flights eval, we should construct.

但有趣的是，我唯一不同意的一点是，你说如果ChatGPT虚构了你的酒店，那并不算灾难。

But it's funny, do the one thing I'll disagree with is, you said if ChatGPT hallucinates your hotel, it's not disastrous.

带着老婆孩子去旅行，我其实不同意你的说法，因为如果那样做的话，我有自己的经历。我去西班牙的时候，开玩笑说，这基本上就是AI生成的假期，其实是我老婆想去巴塞罗那。

Traveling with a wife and child, I would actually disagree because if I did that, but I had my own kind of so I went to Spain and I was like joking, it was kind of like an AI generated vacation that basically my wife wanted to go to Barcelona.

我去过那里很多次了，所以我就说，我们在那儿待几天吧，但我基本上给了AI一堆要求，特别具体，比如我想要在特定价格范围内性价比最高的Airbnb，而且要有游泳池。

I've been there a bunch, so like, I was like, we'll do a few days there, but I basically gave AI a bunch of requirements, like really specific around, like I want best value for Airbnb in a specific price range with a pool at the Airbnb.

我想要浮潜，但水要浅，因为我儿子还在学游泳。

I want like snorkeling but shallow water as my son is only still learning to swim.

我想要沙滩。

I want sandy beach.

我给了所有这些要求，它推荐了西班牙的德尼亚，我们去了四天，那里不游客化，而且八月的西班牙很多地方就像巴塞罗那一样，我们除了工作人员，一个西班牙人都没看到。

I gave all this stuff and it came up with Denia, Spain and we went for four days and not touristy and a lot of Spain in August is just like Barcelona, we didn't see a single Spanish person other than people working like.

德尼亚太棒了。

It was Daniel was amazing.

那是我很久以来感觉最好的一次旅行，就像你发现新事物一样，真的很神奇，是AI带我去的。

It was like one of the best had been so long since I'd like actually felt kind of like traveling that, you know, like you discover something and it really is kind of magical and AI got me there.

那真的就是一堆要求而已。

It was literally set of requirements.

而且在这个过程中，我还会创建一个markdown文件，里面包含所有租车预订号，甚至还有护照信息，希望这些信息都能安全保存。

And then also during the process as well, creating a markdown file with context of all your rental car booking numbers, even now having passport information, everything, hopefully secure.

但我的意思是，不不，然后还能快速问一下，哦等等，我的租车号是多少？

But like, I mean, no no, like and then being able to quickly ask, oh wait, what's my rental car number?

在西班牙租车需要什么条件？

What's required for rental at budget like in Spain?

所有这些。

All of that.

AI带我去了西班牙的德尼亚。

AI got me to Dena, Spain.

我不想把这个隐藏的宝藏地方公之于众，但我们的听众，你们绝对值得去那里，我强烈推荐。

I don't wanna uncover this hidden gem, but to our listeners, you deserve certainly to make it there and would highly recommend it.

对。

Yeah.

这本来应该是一场辩论，但我很高兴你在这点上算是认同我的看法。

This was supposed to be a debate, but I'm glad you sort of see it see it my way on this one.

我也有过非常类似的经历。

And I had such a similar experience.

对我来说，这次旅行在后勤安排上真的非常复杂。

I mean, for me, you know, this trip, I it was a very logistically challenging trip.

大概十五天的时间里，我在印度尼西亚跑了四五个岛屿。

Like, I think I was on maybe four or five islands in Indonesia over, like, the span of, like, fifteen days.

然后回来的时候经过迪拜，整个后勤安排非常顺畅。

And then, yeah, coming back through Dubai, and it was just logistically so so seamless.

我该做的事情都做了。

I had what I had to do.

我在一个聊天里就计划好了。

I planned it in one chat.

上飞机前，我告诉它每天早上六点，搜索聊天记录、Gmail和日历，给我一份当天所有事情的简报，包括所有需要知道的号码等等。

And before I boarded the plan, I said every day, 6AM, I want you to search the chat, search Gmail, search my calendar, give me a brief of everything that's going on today, all the all the numbers I should be aware of, all these things.

它一直做得很好，直到大概两天前，因为我想换信用卡，我的账户被取消了，结果降级到了免费版ChatGPT，等我回去再重新升级到高级版。

And it did perfectly until, I think, like, I had, like, canceled because my account because I wanted to switch credit cards, and I was, defaulted back to the free free version of ChatGPT, like two days ago, and I'm going to rekind of premium when I get back.

但是免费版的ChatGPT实在太难用了，我迫不及待想回到好用的付费版。

But the free version of ChatGPT sucks so bad, and I cannot wait to be back on the good Go stuff ahead.

其实你刚才说的有一点我很喜欢，就是复杂行程和旅行安排的野心正在大大增加。

So actually, one thing you said I kind of love is the the ambition of complex logistics and travel increase is increasing significantly.

因为我还记得，以前和家人旅行的时候，甚至更早，那时候要打印地图路线，放进文件夹里，还有所有信息和行程安排，你其实不会安排太复杂的行程，因为你不想把事情搞砸。

Because I remember like again, whether travel with family even before, I I remember that being old, the days of like printing out map quests into a folder and all your information and itinerary, you would actually include less ambitious logistics cause you just didn't want it to fuck up.

你不想最后陷入旅行灾难。

You didn't want to like end up in a travel disaster.

再说，以前我独自在亚洲旅行的时候，可能会更有野心，因为那时候觉得走一步算一步。

Again, when I was traveling like alone throughout Asia and stuff, maybe you took on ambition because they're going back to like whatever happens happens.

但这次旅行，有很多变化和转换，租了车，订了酒店，还有在偏远地方的Airbnb，没有房东接待，只有密码锁，等等，但一切还是很顺利。

But like now this trip, there was a lot of lot of changes and transitions and cars rented and hotels booked and the Airbnb like in a remote place where no host is checking you in and there's a lockbox and all of that, and it was still perfect.

因为，我以前并不是一个喜欢做详细计划的人，但这次让我感觉，就像我那些痴迷于做旅行表格的朋友一样，他们早在2000年代就会为旅行做电子表格。

Because and I'm not a huge planner planner in the past, and this actually makes me feel as empowered as my obsessive friends who would create spreadsheets for trips back in the two thousands.

所以，是的，我喜欢这种旅行的野心。

So yeah, I like that ambition to travel.

对。

Yeah.

对，确实。

Yeah, definitely.

而且这不是我的强项，所以看到它还挺酷的。

And it's not my strong suit, so it was cool to see it.

好。

Alright.

我们就聊到这儿吧。

We'll leave it with that.

Ranjan，很高兴你回来了。

Ranjan, great to have you back.

你的光荣回归。

Your glorious return.

不早不晚，刚刚好。

Not a minute, too too soon or too late.

我不知道。

I don't know.

我们很高兴你能回来，也期待着我们重新开始。

We're glad to have you and looking forward to doing this We're back.

那会是六。

It's gonna be a six.

那会是个秋天。

It's gonna be a fall.

那会是个秋天。

It's gonna be a fall.

请稍等。

Hold on, please.

不。

No.

等等。

Wait.

抱歉。

Sorry.

天哪。

By golly.

天哪。

By golly.

我们开始吧。

Here we go.

谢谢，Ranjan。

Thanks, Ranjan.

好的。

Alright.

感谢大家的收听和观看，我们下期《大科技播客》再见。

Thanks, everybody, for listening and watching, and we'll see you next time on Big Technology Podcast.