苹果（终于）能在 WWDC 上做好 AI 吗？Anthropic 的担忧，微软与 OpenAI 之争

我们真的得等到苹果推出一款真正的AI设备，才能说他们过去在AI上的失误真的累积成了大问题。

We're really going to have to wait for an AI device to really matter for Apple to start to say that their failures on AI are going to really stack up and add to anything.

这并不意味着他们能永远高枕无忧，但至少眼下是安全的。

Now that doesn't mean they're going be safe forever but they're at least safe for now.

所以这是第一点。

So that's point one.

第二点，我觉得积极的信号是，他们真的在围绕技术的实际能力做产品，而不是在库比蒂诺的会议室里凭空想象出来的玩意儿。

Point two is I think that the positive sign, like I said before, is that they are actually building to the technology's capabilities as opposed to like something they dreamed up in a conference room in Cupertino together.

但问题也在这里——执行层面让人担忧。虽然这次他们本该更有能力做好，但那个‘排队等候’的说法让我很不安。

But then there's the worry and the worry is the execution and while they should be in a better position to execute this time That line about the wait list worries me.

确实让我很不安。

Worries me for sure.

你觉得他们的执行失败，用个术语来说，是什么原因？

Do you think the failure of execution has been what's the term?

是荷兰病吗？

Is it Dutch disease?

就是那种有石油，或者天啊，

It's where you have oil or oh, man.

资源诅咒？

Natural resource curse?

哦，明白了。

Oh, okay.

对，就是荷兰病。

It is Dutch disease.

最初是源于大量外汇涌入带来的影响。

Originally, it was around the massive influx of foreign currency.

但说白了，就是资源诅咒——当你国家拥有某种特定资源时，反而会扭曲其他经济部门的发展。

But, yeah, the idea, it's like a resource curse that when you have some specific resource, it kinda distorts your ability to kinda develop other parts of the economy within a nation.

它

It

不应该是这样，你先说。

shouldn't be because oh, go ahead.

你先说。

Go ahead.

不，不是这样的。

Well, no.

我的意思是，iPhone 依然卖得很好。

I mean, those iPhones are still selling.

我的意思是，也许你觉得它们的性能有了巨大提升，但我认为其实并没有。

They haven't I mean maybe you believe they have dramatically approved, I would tend to argue that it's been.

至少你说的是优化，而不是颠覆。但话说回来，当iPhone卖得这么火，人人都在买，我马上还要花2.5美元换一副AirPods的时候，

Yeah, at least you said refining not revolutionizing but again, when you're selling iPhones at that clip and everyone keeps buying them and I'm about to go spend $2.50 to replace an AirPod.

你根本没动力也没精力去真正搞出这种创新了。

Like, you just don't have the internal energy and incentive to actually build these kind of things.

如果你看看整个科技行业，就会发现那些拥有天然资源的公司，而这些科技巨头之所以能一直领先，是因为他们没躺在功劳簿上，他们明白自己拥有资源，但依然必须不断创新。

If you look throughout big tech, you will see companies with natural resources and the ones that these tech giants have been able to stay on top because they haven't sat on their laurels and they've realized they have a natural resource, but they still need to innovate.

这适用于所有人。

Oh, It goes to everyone.

谷歌拥有最强大的

Google has the greatest

天然垄断地位。

natural monopoly of all time.

没错。

Exactly.

你能看出来，他们……我是说，过去十年他们一直在大力投入人工智能。

And you can see that they're they I mean, they've been big on AI for the last decade.

所以对我来说，这可能算是苹果的一种‘资源诅咒’，但我觉得我们不应该简单地把它归结为‘资源诅咒’就完事了。

So to me, it's not you know, maybe it's part natural resource curse for Apple, but I shouldn't we shouldn't I don't think we should wave it away as saying it's just a natural resource curse.

我认为这其实是个文化问题，而且我早就公开表达过这个观点了。

I think it is a cultural issue, and I've been on record about this for a long time.

苹果的文化非常依赖自身的供应链，他们坚信正是这种文化造就了iPhone，虽然确实如此，但这也要归功于史蒂夫·乔布斯。

The culture of Apple is very high on its own supply, and they believe that the culture that they've built is responsible for the creation of the iPhone and while it was, that also came from Steve Jobs.

所以即便乔布斯已经不在了，他们依然保持着那种经过打磨的、带有乔布斯印记的文化。

And so they've remained this refined jobs idea culture even though they don't have jobs anymore.

他们对自己做事的方式特别满意，甚至引以为傲，根本不愿意尝试别的模式。

And they are sort of so happy about the way that they do things or proud of the way they do things that they will not try any other model.

这就是原因。

That's why.

是的。

Yeah.

谷歌的做法完全推翻了我的观点。

Google completely disproves my point.

但我一直有个特别喜欢的看法：谷歌在AI领域的成功，根本是因为 Sundar 是麦肯锡出身，凡事都从组织架构和变革管理的角度来看待。

But I still one of my favorite hot takes is that Google's entire AI transformation success can be traced back to the fact that Sundar was a McKinsey alum and looks at everything in terms of like organizational design and change management.

所以，要是蒂姆·库克有麦肯锡的背景，苹果现在肯定也没问题。

So basically, if Tim Cook was McKinsey, they'd be fine.

我坚持这个看法。

I stand by it.

这期节目现在变成麦肯锡安利大会了。

This is a pro McKinsey podcast now.

这挺有意思的，因为我们之前聊过麦肯锡的模式，就是把核心引擎和外包给各个产品团队分开运作。

It is interesting because the McKinsey model of like we talked about the engine room and farming it out to the product areas.

我周一刚跟MG聊过这个话题。

I just spoke about this with MG on Monday.

这种模式或许能让具体产品做得更好，但问题是，用这种方式能不能打造出一个统一的助手？毕竟谷歌内部还是有个中央团队在跟Gmail、地图、搜索这些产品部门协作。

It might help make the specific products better, but the question is can you build a unified assistant with that model because you still have this centralized division working with the product areas within Google like Gmail and Maps and search.

但如果我们真要往超级应用的方向走，这些产品团队就得放下各自的自尊，配合中央应用的整合。

But if we're going to move towards a super app, you know, you're going to need these product areas to subcede their egos to sort of make that centralized app work.

对吧？

Right?

就像你之前说的那样。

Again, like you were talking previously.

现在最前沿的是什么？

What's the cutting edge now?

关键是知道该调用哪个功能。

It's learning what to call.

对吧？

Right?

关键是学会该调用哪些系统。

It's learning what systems to tap into.

如果很多系统都希望用户多花时间在它们里面，或者彼此争优先级，那在集中式助手的模式下会很难搞。

And if you have a lot of systems that sort of prefer that people spend time within them or prefer priority over others, it's gonna be tough in the centralized assistant world.

说到超级应用，待会儿我们会讲到另一个案例，到时候再深入聊，我有些看法想说。

On the topic of super app, in a bit we're gonna get to one of the other stories where we'll discuss it more, and I have some gripes.

但最让我感兴趣的是，今年最大的新增功能之一，是推出了一个专门用于对话和延续历史聊天的Siri应用。

But I one of the most interesting parts of this was one of the biggest additions this year is a dedicated Siri app for holding conversations and continuing past chats.

用户可以通过下拉搜索结果直接进入Siri应用。

Users can jump into the Siri app by pulling down on a result.

也就是说，现在有个独立的Siri应用，能持续对话，基本就是个类似ChatGPT的助手。

So basically, dedicated Siri app, running conversations, basically your chat GPT ish style assistant.

你觉得两年内Siri会成为那个超级应用吗？

Do you think Siri is gonna become the super app one to two years from now?

我觉得这正是苹果的野心。

I think that's Apple's ambition.

没错，这肯定是他们目标的一部分。

I mean, that's part of the ambition for sure.

你觉得 Siri 会出一份做超级应用的PPT吗？

You think there is a slide deck Siri, the super app?

超级应用。

Super app.

somewhere.

Somewhere.

某个地方的 Siri 超级应用。

Some super app Siri.

很可能。

Probably.

说实话，iOS 本身就已经是个超级应用了。

I mean if you I mean the truth is iOS is a super app.

对吧？

Right?

这些应用本身就成了独立的操作系统。

So these apps become operating systems of their own.

对吧？

Right?

对我来说，这才是关乎苹果未来商业模式能否持续的关键问题。

That to me is like the real the real question in terms of the viability of Apple's business model moving forward.

如果聊天机器人和人工智能成了操作系统，你怎么看？

It's if the chatbot and AI becomes the operating system, what's your answer to it?

你可以想象他们在考虑这个问题。

So you would imagine that they're thinking about that.

当然。

Absiery.

好吧，

Okay,

所以我们接下来会继续关注，下周再回来聊聊我们看到了什么。

so we'll obviously watch and come back next week and talk a little bit about what we've seen.

meanwhile，Anthropic 刚刚说，AI 可能快达到自我递归改进的阶段了，也许现在真该给它降降温了。

In the meantime, we should definitely talk about Anthropic telling us that AI may be close to recursive self improvement and maybe it's time to slow it all down.

当然，微软和 OpenAI 也已经开始拉拢合作伙伴，争夺主导地位了。

And then, of course, Microsoft and OpenAI went to partners now starting to battle it out for the crown.

这些内容马上接着讲。

That's coming up right after this.

每到夏天，我的穿衣风格就会变。

Summer always changes how I get dressed.

我想要轻盈、舒服，但又不失得体的单品。

I want pieces that feel lighter and more comfortable, but still put together.

这时候就轮到 Kinz 出场了。

That's where Kinz comes in.

他们专注做品质扎实的基础款，用透气的亚麻和柔软的有机棉，都是那种你会反复回购的经典单品。

They focus on well made essentials and breathable linen and soft organic cotton, the kind of basics you will keep coming back to.

Kinz的所有商品价格比同类品牌低50%到80%，因为他们直接与道德工厂合作，省去了中间环节，你付的钱是实实在在的品质，而不是品牌溢价。

Everything at Kinz is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories, cutting out the middleman, so you're paying for quality, not brand markup.

我个人在空调房和夏日高温之间来回穿梭时，Kinz的轻薄拉链卫衣简直改变了我的生活。

Personally, while I'm moving between air conditioning and summer heat, a lightweight zip down sweatshirt from Kinz has been a life changer.

提升你的夏日衣橱。

Elevate your summer wardrobe.

前往 kinz.com/bigtech，下单享受免运费，还有365天无理由退换。

Go to kinz.com/bigtech for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns.

现在加拿大也能购买了。

Now available in Canada too.

前往 quince.com/bigtech，享受免运费和365天无理由退换。

That's quince.com/bigtech for free shipping and three hundred sixty five day returns.

kinz.com/bigtech。

Kinz.com/bigtech.

保险不是一刀切的，买保险也不该像硬挤进一件根本不合身的衣服。

Insurance isn't one size fits all, and shopping for it shouldn't feel like squeezing into something that just doesn't fit.

所以多年来，司机们一直很喜欢Progressive的‘自定价格’工具。

That's why drivers have enjoyed Progressive's name your price tool for years.

使用‘自定价格’工具，你告诉他们你愿意花多少钱，他们会给你匹配符合预算的选项。

With the name your price tool, you tell them what you want to pay, and they show you options that fit your budget.

别再到处找折扣、费劲算保费、反复调整保障范围了。

Enough hunting for discounts, trying to calculate rates, and tinkering with coverages.

也许你正在挑选人生第一份保单，也可能只是想找一份更适合你和家人的保险。

Maybe you're picking out your very first policy, or maybe you're just looking for something that works better for you and your family.

不管哪种情况，他们都能让你轻松看清所有选择。

Either way, they make it simple to see your options.

不用猜，没有意外。

No guesswork, no surprises.

想看看买汽车保险原来可以这么简单又有趣吗？

Ready to see how easy and fun shopping for car insurance can be?

去progressive.com试试‘自定价格’工具吧。

Visit progressive.com and give the name your price tool a try.

让选保险变得更轻松，按你的需求找到合适的保障。

Take the stress out of shopping and find coverage that fits your life on your terms.

Progressive Casualty Insurance Company 及其关联公司。

Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates.

价格与保障方案受各州法律限制。

Price and coverage match limited by state law.

大多数管理者都知道工作本该怎样进行，但说到实际工作中跨工具、跨团队、跨交接的具体执行，他们大多只是在猜。

Most leaders know how work is supposed to happen, but when it comes to how it actually gets done day to day across tools, teams, and handoffs, they're mostly guessing.

Scribe Optimize 正是为解决这个问题而打造的。

That's exactly the problem Scribe Optimize was built to solve.

它已被超过八万家企业信赖，包括近一半的《财富》500强公司，能实时展现员工在合规业务应用中的真实工作流程，无需访谈、无需手动绘制流程图，也不增加团队负担。

Trusted by over 80,000 enterprises, including nearly half of the Fortune 500, it gives leaders a live view into how work is really happening across approved business apps without interviews, manual process mapping, or extra effort from the team.

由于它持续分析真实的工作活动，所以洞察始终是最新鲜的，哪怕流程一有变动也不会过时。

And because it's continuously analyzing real workflow activity, the insights stay current instead of going stale the moment a process changes.

你能清楚看到哪些流程在运行、时间花在了哪里，以及用到了哪些工具。

You can see which workflows are happening, where time is going, and which tools are involved.

它能自动找出最关键的问题，解释问题背后的原因，甚至还会给出解决方案，并估算出能节省多少时间。

It automatically surfaces top issues, explains why they're happening, and even recommends ways to fix them with estimated time savings.

更重要的是，它的设计充分考虑了隐私保护。

And importantly, it's built with privacy in mind.

只有管理员批准的业务应用中的活动才会被记录，而且用户级别的数据默认都会匿名化处理。

So activity is only captured in admin approved business apps, and user level data is anonymized by default.

过去需要几个月才能搞清楚的状况，现在随时都能看得一清二楚。

The kind of visibility that used to take months, now it's just always on.

如果你准备不再猜来猜去，而是真正看清现状，就去 scribe.how/bigtech 看看吧。

If you're ready to stop guessing and start seeing, visit scribe.how/bigtech.

网址是 scribe.how/bigtech。

That's scribe.how/bigtech.

我们又回到了《大科技》播客的周五特别版，今天邀请到的是 Margins 的 Ranjan Roy，和往常一样。

And we're back here on Big Technology podcast Friday edition with Ranjan Roy of Margins as we do every Friday.

Ranjan，我看到 Anthropic 最新发布的博客文章，准确地说是一篇报道时，第一时间就想到了你。

Ranjan, I thought of you when I saw the headline of Anthropic's latest blog post or really an article.

标题是：当AI开始自我构建，我们离递归式自我提升的目标有多近，以及这会带来什么影响。

The headline is when AI builds itself, our progress towards recurve recursive self improvement and its implication.

这段内容来自那篇文章。

This is from the story.

Anthropic的工程师平均每个季度交付的代码量，是2021到2025年期间的八倍。

Anthropic engineers on average ship eight times as much code per quarter as they did from 2021 to 2025.

这当然离不开像Mythos这样的AI模型的帮助。

That is of course with the assistance of AI models like Mythos.

如今模型中那些罕见的偏差，可能会在AI不断创造下一代模型的过程中不断累积，变得越来越频繁，却越来越难被理解，最终我们可能彻底失去控制。

The rare occurrences of misalignment present in today's models could compound as the models build their successors growing more frequent but less understood until we lose control of them.

核心观点是，AI让工程师的生产力比以往提升了不止一个档次。

The argument is basically AI, has made engineers much more productive than they were previously.

但目前还是有人在参与其中。

There's still a human in the loop.

也许未来根本不需要人参与，而一旦真的不需要了，问题可能就来了。

There may not need to be and if there doesn't need to be, there could be some problems.

看到这些数据、帖子和这些观点时，你第一反应是什么？

What did you think when you saw this and the numbers, the post, the ideas?

你当时怎么想的？

What was your reaction?

我现在都不知道该说什么了。

I can't even right now.

说实话，我觉得有一件事挺有意思的。

I I actually I think one of the things that it is funny.

我觉得我们现在正处在市场周期的某个节点，我可能以后会越来越多地引用埃德·齐特隆的观点，他一直对科技持悲观态度，但我依然坚决不同意他对这项技术潜力的判断。

I feel we're at the point of the market cycle where I'm, like, gonna be citing Ed Zitron more, who has been quite a bear and I still vehemently disagree with him on the potential of the technology itself.

但有意思的是，他在这一公告后说：‘求你们了，搞点新东西吧。’

But I liked he had said after this announcement, he was like, get some fucking new material, please.

说实话，这种话我们已经听得太多了。

And like, I mean, it's just like we have heard this over and over again.

几周前我们刚聊过这个，当时 Mythos 发布，还有那个开发者在公园吃三明治，收到一条突破了限制的消息——那明显是一次精心策划的公关操作。

We I talked a lot about this a few weeks ago when like the mythos announcement was so and developer eating a sandwich in the park and receiving a message that had broken out of containment was a very clear kind of PR coordinated message push.

我想问问Anthropic，他们现在一路猛冲，接下来两三个月最值得关注的事之一，就是谁先上市、什么时候上市——SpaceX、Anthropic、OpenAI，他们到底怎么走？

It's My question to Anthropic is, as they are steamrolling ahead and obviously like to me one of the most interesting stories of the next two to three months is who gets out first and when SpaceX, Anthropic, OpenAI, how do they get out?

大家都在抢着冲向公开市场。

It's this rush to get out to the public markets.

如果你想放慢脚步，其实完全可以。

If you wanna slow things down, you can.

你根本不需要再融650亿美元，估值950亿，然后偷偷泄露S1文件，或者干脆正式提交S1。如果这真像你们说的，对人类有重大风险、可能引发社会性危机，那你们为什么不暂停？

You don't need to raise another $65,000,000,000 at a nine fifty dollars valuation and then start kind of leaking that your S1 or I guess actually filing your S1 and like if this is truly a risk to humanity that can pose significant societal risks and like wouldn't you stop?

你们为什么不暂停？你们到底怎么想的？

Why wouldn't you like what do you think it is?

你觉得Dario自己真信这套吗？

Do you think it's just do you think Dario believes this?

是不是有一大群人真觉得有风险，但市场、商业和增长团队压过了他们的声音？

Do you think there's a large group of people that do believe this but then the marketers and business folks and growth folks override them?

我知道，这事儿挺复杂的。

Do you think this I know.

我的意思是，我们之前聊过很多次了，但随着Anthropic上市越来越近，你心里到底怎么想？他们这番话背后真正的原因是什么？人们到底信不信这些？

I mean, we we go over this a lot, but where's your head right now as we get closer to the Anthropic IPO of what really is behind this messaging and what do people really believe?

好吧。

All right.

首先，我觉得我们得先理清核心问题。

First of all, I think that we should sort of tackle the core message here.

在我们深入讨论公司内部情况之前，你至少同意一点吧：Anthropic的AI编程工具确实进步了很多，帮用户完成了更多事情？

And would you before we go into what's going on within the company, would you agree at least that the AI coding tools from Anthropic have gotten way better and enabled people to do much more?

六个月前是这样。

Six months ago, yes.

我觉得4.0.8其实是个挺失败的版本。

I think the four 0.8 was actually like kind of like a pretty big dud.

好吧，但整体趋势还是向上的。

Okay, but the line is pointing upward.

不，不，趋势确实向上，但过去一个月里出现的这些进展，六个月到八个月前根本没人想到过。

No, no, of course, but none of that whatever exists in the last one month existed in their line of sight six to eight months ago.

如果真是这样，正常人应该会说，咱们好好理一理这个问题。

If that was truly the case, one would hope that decent people would be like, let's figure this out.

别这么着急，先慢下来。

Let's actually slow things down.

再说了，就在你上市前一两个月，还这么推进，关于AI整体风险的评估，我觉得这根本是另一回事。

Again, one to two months before your actual IPO to continue this, maybe we should have, again, in terms of the actual qualification of risk of overall AI, I think it's just a separate conversation from this.

咱们姑且这么讲吧。

For the sake of argument, you could argue.

你完全可以这么说。

You could argue.

甚至可以再往深里说。

Double argue.

不管怎样，任何说法都。

Anyway, any statement

只要一开头说‘我特别期待’。

that starts with that I'm excited for.

他们确实放慢了步伐，决定不向所有人发布Mythos，而许多代码优化其实都是因为内部在使用Mythos。

That they did slow down to a degree by deciding not to release mythos to everybody and a lot of this coding improvement has happened because of Mythos internally.

你是说，好吧。

You're saying that okay.

所以，为了讨论方便，你还是在坚持，认为这才是官方的放缓？

So you're you're still for the sake of argument, you are arguing that that was the official slowdown.

可他们现在还在大量融资，这么拼命推进，从组织层面看，就算真有这么一个决定——比如Mythos是那个能毁灭人类的终极模型——可压根没人这么说过。

Is I it still raising this much money, pushing ahead with this intensity, organizationally, one decision, maybe mythos is this be all end all God model that like will destroy humanity they have No one's saying that.

没人说它可能跟某些模型差不多。

No one's one's saying maybe it's on par with some

也许吧。

of Maybe

它也没那么特别，你知道的。

it's not like, you know, so special.

也许OpenAI最新的模型也能做类似的事，但它的用意是传递一种态度：如果你能用这个模型去破解各种东西，那我们推出它的时候就得格外谨慎。

Maybe some of the latest OpenAI models can do similar things, but what it's trying to do is set this tone that's like, you know, if you can use this model to hack through things, should be careful about the way we roll it out.

不是。

No.

我理解这个想法，但按照我们之前说的，你还是不该这样发布。

I I appreciate that idea, but still then you don't roll it out as we had discussed.

也就是说，你不会搞一场盛大的媒体发布会，还点名合作方，可现在却有报道称他们居然在和国安局合作。

Like, then you don't have a big press announcement with named partners, and then now there's reporting that they're apparently working with the NSA.

而且，说真的，他们拥有全世界最顶尖的公关和传播团队，太清楚哪些故事能上新闻了。

And, like, again, they have the greatest PR and comms team in the world in terms of, like, understanding which stories can actually make it into the press.

你根本不会这么做。

Like, you wouldn't do that.

你反而会在背后悄悄协调，跟所有相关方一起努力，真正解决问题。

You would actually, in the background coordinate and kind of work with everyone who is needed to try to actually solve this problem.

根本不会搞什么高调的联合发布，还列一大串合作机构的名字。

It wouldn't be a PR release with a large consortium named.

所以，哪怕这事是真的，我觉得他们的处理方式也该完全不同。

That's why even that, if it were real, I still think it would be handled in a different way.

要是这事儿真的发生了的话。

Like if it was real.

因为我肯定不会这么干。

Because I would not.

那你打算怎么处理？

How would you handle it?

你之所以这么做，只是因为

You have Only because

你先说。

go ahead.

你先说。

Go ahead.

不行。

No.

假设你有了一个新模型。

Let's say you got a new model.

你突然发现，Alex坐在布鲁克林的公寓里，自己搭了一整套科洛索斯系统，然后一下子训练出了Cantoritz 5.7。

You suddenly Alex is sitting there in Brooklyn apartment, has a bunch of has your own colossus set up and suddenly you train Cantoritz 5.7.

你立马意识到，天哪，这玩意儿可能带来重大的社会风险。

Suddenly you're like, oh my God, this could has the potential to post significant societal risks.

那你接下来怎么办？

Do you do next?

首先，要是我真在布鲁克林公寓里摆了这么一套科洛索斯系统，我敢打赌，刚装好第二天早上，我老婆就会把所有服务器都搬出去扔到路边——毕竟咱们家终于能腾出空间了。

First of all, if I had a colossus set up in my Brooklyn apartment, I guarantee you that morning after I set it up, my wife would have every single one of those servers on the curb because we would finally have space in our apartment.

所以我跟你保证，第二天布鲁克林的路边准会堆满一堆堆的维拉·鲁宾服务器。

So I promise you the next day there would be racks and racks of Vera Rubins on the curb in Brooklyn.

我跟你保证。

Promise you.

不管它们值多少钱。

Doesn't matter how much they're worth.

好吧。

Okay.

那我现在该怎么做呢？

So now what would I do?

这其实正是我想说的。

And this is this is what I was gonna say.

就因为你对这事太狭隘了，难道你不会跟他们做的一模一样吗？

Only because you're so myopic about this, wouldn't you do exactly what they're doing?

这就是我要说的核心论点。

So this is the this is the argument.

对吧？

Right?

问题是，如果你觉得这项技术可能有危险，为什么还要继续推进？

The argument is if you are why keep pushing forward if you feel the technology is potentially dangerous?

你继续推进，是因为你意识到，只有当你在研发最前沿的模型时，你才有能力影响它的使用方式。

You keep pushing forward because you feel the technology while you feel the technology is dangerous because if you are building the leading models, you actually have a say in the way that the deployment works.

别人才会听你的。

People will listen to you.

如果现在Anthropic像Meta一样，拥有他们最新那个——顺便说一句，他们还在推迟发布的模型——

If if Anthropic was like meta right now and had like, you know, whatever their their latest, you know, model is that they're delaying by the way.

然后他们说：‘嘿，前面的朋友们，能不能慢一点？’

And they said, hey, you know, guys in the front, maybe slow it down.

可根本没人会听他们的。

No one would listen to them.

真正能影响这件事走向的，只有那些走在最前面的人，而你要想走在前面，就得大声说出来。

You the argument is you only really have influence on the way this works if you are leading and the way that you do that is you're loud about it.

所以你是觉得，只有我自己能解决这个问题。

So you are taking the I alone can fix it approach.

我不是，我不是第一个，我根本不是那个意思。

I'm not I'm not first of I'm not

这说的是你。

taking This is you.

这是你和你的庞然大物，而且你刚刚取得了重大突破。

This is you and your colossus and you have just made a significant breakthrough.

别把这责任推给我。

Don't put this on me.

我只是想带你看看这件事的另一面。

I was trying to to talk you through the other side of this heart.

在这个思想实验里，你突然变成了一个像詹姆斯·邦德反派那样的人，挺有意思，接着说。

I like how in this thought experiment you have just turned into this world, like this James Bondian villain, but continue.

不是这样的。

No.

我向你保证。

I promise you.

我现实中遇到的情况是，穿着托尼·萨普兰诺那种浴袍起床，走出去拿报纸，看见消防栓旁边全是老鼠、杂草，还有发黑的墙。

My real world experience with of this would be waking up in a Tony Soprano bathrobe and walking out, getting the newspaper and seeing like rats and rats and grasses black walls next to the fire hydrant.

我向你保证。

I promise you.

好吧。

Okay.

这实际上减缓了人类的毁灭，她为你这么做就是这个原因。

And that was actually that slows down the destruction of humanity and that's why she did it for you.

没错。

That's right.

对。

Yep.

谢谢你这么说。

Thank you for that.

谢谢。

Thank you.

但我是认真的。

But no but seriously.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，你怎么看这个观点？你一直占据主导，声音响亮，就是为了影响整个过程，对吧？

I mean, what what is your I just wanna get your response to that argument that you you stay in the lead till people listen to you and you're loud because you wanna have influence over the process.

我的回应是，他们从一开始就这么说了。

My response would be they have been saying this since the beginning.

我确实觉得，他们曾经有一段时间是相信的，但不管谁在领先——无论是OpenAI还是Anthropic，是萨姆还是达里奥——现在整个组织实际上已经明显地退后了。但那种‘这项技术极其危险，但我还是要全速推进’的说法，一直就是他们的叙事，而且帮了他们大忙。

And I do I do think there was a moment that they might have believed it, but no matter who is in the lead, OpenAI and Anthropic, Sam and Dario, but now the entire organizations actually OpenAI has pulled back from it, you can see, like pretty purposefully, But this idea that this technology is so incredibly dangerous yet I will continue to push ahead at full steam has always been kind of the narrative and it's helped them tremendously.

你什么时候听过桑达尔说过这种话？

I mean, what have you ever heard Sundar say that?

他说这像火，但那句话听起来挺搞笑的。

He said it's fire, but would be funny

听到过吗？

hearing.

没有。

No.

你根本没听过。

You haven't.

但很明显，桑达尔的看法跟他们不一样。

But obviously, Sundar's perspective is gonna be different than theirs.

那为什么呢？

So Why?

到底为什么？

Why?

我觉得‘显然’这个词可能不太合适，但谷歌一直以来更偏向商业导向。

Well, I guess maybe obviously is the wrong word, but Google has always been more capitalistic.

你不觉得吗？

Wouldn't you say?

他们连‘不作恶’都删了。

I mean, they removed don't be evil.

对吧？

Right?

他们当初可是这么起步的。

Like, they started that way.

后来就变成一家普通的公司了。

They became a normal company.

哦，你真信了啊，亚历克斯。

Oh, you're buying into it, Alex.

你真觉得融650亿美元、估值9500亿美元就是资本主义的极致了？

You're buying into Raising $65,000,000,000 at a $950,000,000,000 valuation is about as capitalistic as it gets.

不。

No.

好吧。

Okay.

不。

No.

你说得对。

You're right.

你说得对。

You're right.

我本来想留着这话说的，但你这么一说，我只好现在讲出来了。

And and let me now I was saving this, but you've now sort of forced me to spit it out.

咱们就这么干吧。

Let's do it.

说到谷歌，我在那次采访中从杰夫·辛顿那里学到了很多，那期节目是周三播的。

Speaking of Google, the I learned a lot from Jeff Hinton when we sat down in that interview is on the feed from on on from the Wednesday show.

从辛顿那里，最让我印象深刻的不是他说人工智能有意识——虽然我觉得这挺有意思。

The thing that will probably stay with me the longest from Hinton is not him saying AI is conscious, although I thought that was really interesting.

而是我们讨论安全问题，特别是Anthropic在上市后还能不能坚持它的安全使命。

It was our discussion about safety and particularly whether Anthropic would be able to pursue its safety mission while on the public market.

正如辛顿指出的，一旦上市，你就有了法律义务要为股东追求利润最大化，而不是追求人工智能安全。

And as Hinton points out, when you IPO, you have a legal obligation to your shareholders to maximize profit and not to maximize AI safety.

我实在想不通，Anthropic怎么可能一边被法律要求最大化股东利润，一边还能继续推进安全使命。

And I just don't see how it adds up where Anthropic continues to pursue the safety mission while it's legally required to maximize profit for shareholders.

是的。

Yeah.

但你也有法律义务不能毁灭人类。

But you also have a legal obligation to not destroy humanity.

我的意思是，这话说得有点夸张了，但我是说，到底

I mean, again, like, that's that's a hyperbolic statement, but like, I mean What

罗伊，你站在哪一边？

side are you on, Roy?

不是。

No.

不是。

No.

不是。

No.

不是。

No.

但你看，像菲利普莫里斯变成奥驰亚这样的上市公司，它还是得遵守一些规定——虽然那些是法律要求，不是自己定的，但我们现在都2026年了，整个企业界早就变了样。

But it's it's like, again, if you you can be Philip Morris turned Altria as a public company, but still has to abide by, you know, I guess those are actual regulations and they're not self imposed, but like, still, I'm we are in 2026, the whole corporation's is good.

大家早就不再这么想了。

Everyone kind of moved past that.

但话说回来，如果你拥有一种可能带来重大社会风险的核心技术，投资者就不该对此视而不见，如果真是这样的话。

But like, still, I think if you have a fundamental technology that can pose significant societal risks, investors aren't shouldn't like that if that were true.

好的。

Okay.

我们干脆

Let's just

这本身就存在风险。

give That a presents a risk.

这带来了风险。

That presents a

我们举个例子吧。

Let's give an example.

我们来具体分析一个例子。

Let's talk through an example.

行。

All right.

Anthropic 是上市公司。

Anthropic is public.

它已经有了一种传奇色彩。

It has mythos.

OpenAI 刚刚发布了一个能动态编程的模型。

OpenAI has just released a dynamic coding model.

对吧？

Right?

当然，这中间有成本和收益的权衡。

And yes, there's a cost benefit analysis.

没错，可能会增加被攻击的风险，但同时也能让 Anthropic 比 OpenAI 发展得更快，提前化解这个威胁。

Yes, it might lead to more hacks but it also will end up providing Anthropic with the ability to grow faster than OpenAI and head off this threat.

如果它因为觉得这不是末日级的风险，就选择压制 Mythos，会不会惹上股东诉讼？

Couldn't there be shareholder lawsuits if it decides to hold back Mythos because it's not an end of the world situation.

没关系。

It's okay.

我们还得留意几起新的网络攻击事件。

There's a few more cyber hacks that we want to be mindful about.

一旦上了公开市场，这么做就难多了。

Becomes much more difficult to do that you're on the public market.

你是说OpenAI把Mythos的风险轻描淡写成几起网络攻击？

You saying that OpenAI presented the risks of mythos as just a few more cyber hacks?

不是。

No.

你是在说Anthropic？

You're saying Anthropic?

抱歉，是Anthropic。

Sorry, Anthropic.

Anthropic觉得，几起网络攻击根本不算什么。

Anthropic, Is just a few more cyber hacks not a big deal.

也许你的Squarespace网站偶尔宕机几次，也没多大影响。

Maybe your your Squarespace site goes down a couple It's of

首先，这得由股东们决定。

up to first of all, it's up to the shareholders.

其次，你不觉得吗？

And second, it becomes wouldn't you agree?

如果你在公开市场上，要隐瞒这种事情就难多了。

It becomes much harder to hold something like that back if you're on the public market?

我就是这个意思。

That's all I'm saying.

我觉得这会引来更多关注，而且好处是，反而会迫使大家更透明地面对真实情况。

I I think it brings a lot more attention to it and actually the good thing is it would actually force more transparency around the reality of the situation.

你刚才站我这边了。

You just took my side.

这不就是我想说的吗？整个节目我都在说这个。

Is that's what I was trying to say the whole the whole show.

不，我不觉得这真能逼他们这么做。

No, but I don't think it forces them.

我觉得股东提起诉讼的理由站不住脚，因为Anthropic在竞争中不发布模型，是出于对国家安全各层面的考虑，而不是因为市场策略问题。

Adds I don't think the legality of a shareholder lawsuit because Anthropic in a competitive battle does not release the model that actually they have marketed themselves presents significant risks and had to like national security, like at every level.

我觉得股东不会因为竞争对手行事草率，就起诉公司没把模型公开给大众，这种事根本不会发生。

I think shareholders, the idea that they would sue that you did not release that to the general public when a competitor was being careless and callous, I don't think would happen.

我不确定。

I don't know.

好吧。

Alright.

现在金融市场上，什么事都可能发生。

And nowadays, anything's possible in the financial markets.

让我看看，你的立场是不是前后一致？

Let me see if I can I think there is consistency to your position here?

我刚才误解了，你谈的是公司自身的透明度，不是整个行业的透明度。

And I think I reacted to something different in terms of your transparency is the transparency from the company, not transparency in the industry.

说得有道理。

Fair enough.

你的意思是，现在Anthropic一直在向我们披露这些模型，虽然我们之前聊过，但他们明明说过模型能自我递归改进，却紧接着建议暂停前沿开发，对吧？

Is your position that right now Anthropic telling us about all these models and by the way that we've sort of kind of talked over it but they did then after saying that the models could recursively self improve say it might be a good idea for frontier building to pause for a bit.

明白了。

Okay?

所以你的观点是，他们这么做、这么说，其实都是在搞营销，跟其他公司一样，本质上就是一家追求利润的企业。

So is your position that them doing this building and saying this is actually marketing and actually they are a capitalist company you know as everybody else.

是的。

Yeah.

别被那些话骗了，那都是营销手段。等他们上市之后，就算他们擅长包装、一心追求利润和股东回报，也不见得真有什么特别的隐私或安全理念，但法律还是会要求他们必须重视安全。

And don't don't believe that stuff it's marketing and when they go public being public will still you know, even though they are, you know, this a company that does good marketing and seek and is trying to maximize profit share maximize shareholder value and doesn't have a special thing about privacy a special thing about safety, they'll still be required to act with safety in mind.

所以这并不矛盾。

So it's not inconsistent.

对。

Yes.

我也这么认为。

I think so.

我觉得可以。

I think Okay.

我觉得我们已经达成一致了。

I think we've we've aligned

我只是在重复你的观点。

Again Well, I'm just repeating your point.

这么说合理吗？

Will Are state a valid

你同意吗？

you agree?

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

我还不太能同意，但我觉得这个观点是有道理的。

I'm not ready to agree just yet, but I think it's a valid argument.

但我想把话题拉回到最初。

But I want to bring it back to the beginning.

你认为，普通的Anthropic员工真的相信，他们所开发和运营的技术，正如他们自己所说，带来了前所未有的网络安全风险，严重到足以引发全球金融系统和关键基础设施的大规模瘫痪吗？

Do you think the average Anthropic employee is genuinely believes they own and operate technology and in their own words, that pose unprecedented cybersecurity risks severe enough to cause widespread disruption to the global financial system and critical infrastructure.

这可比几起网络攻击要严重多了。

A little more dramatic than a few cyber hacks.

明白了。

Okay.

我这儿有个说法，咱们最后用这个收尾吧。

I have this I I let's end with this.

我从《华尔街日报》的一篇文章里摘了这么一段话，出自我们常引用的那位嘉宾——宾夕法尼亚大学沃顿商学院的伊桑·莫洛克教授，他是研究人工智能变革的权威学者。

I have this actually from the Wall Street Journal story, a quote from one of our favorite sources, friend of the program, I Ethan Mollock, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School and an influential scholar on AI transformation.

他当时对《华尔街日报》这么说的。

Here's what he told the Wall Street Journal.

虽然一些批评Anthropic的人觉得他们关于安全的声明不过是空话和营销，但公司内部很多人确实是真心相信的。

While some Anthropic critics see fluff and marketing in their safety pronouncements, many within the company are true believers.

马利克说，AI实验室是个混合体。

AI labs are a mix of things, said Malik.

它是个价值万亿美元的公司，有着所有大公司标配的东西——市场团队、法务部门等等。

There is a trillion dollar company, with all the normal trillion dollar company stuff like marketing teams and lawyers.

有一群研究员专心致志地开发下一代模型，还有一群人像哲人王一样，忧心未来，思考下一步该往哪儿走，他们之间时不时还互相冲突。

There is a core of researchers who are just building the next models, And then there is a set of people who are philosopher kings and concerned about the future and what comes next, and they're all in conflict with each other at times.

我觉得这已经是最贴切的解释了，你还能找到更好的吗？

I think that's about as good of an explanation as We you're gonna

我们刚才不就在聊这个吗？

just talked about this.

这话题我们已经讨论好几个月了。

We've been talking about this for months.

伊桑这么一说，我一下子全明白了。

Ethan just he just made it all make sense to me.

不管怎样，这本《共存》这本书，讲的就是这个概念、这个想法吗？

Is either way, is this coexistence book gonna be about this concept, this idea?

哦，所以根据这篇报道，他即将在秋天出版一本叫《AI共存》的书。

Oh, so he has a book AI Coexistence coming out in the fall according to the story.

我觉得这本书讲的不会是Anthropic内部这些人怎么相处。

I don't think it's going to be about how these people coexist within Anthropic.

我觉得重点应该是我们人类怎么和AI共存，不过要是能请他来节目里聊聊就好了。

I think it's going to be about us coexisting with AI, but hopefully we can bring him on the show and get him to talk

聊聊共存这个话题。

about Just coexistence.

让我们一起好好共存吧。

Let's coexist together.

一定会的。

We shall.

说到共存，这过渡可真漂亮。

Oh, speaking of coexistence, wow, that was a beautiful segue.

微软和OpenAI能和平共处吗？

Can Microsoft and OpenAI coexist?

这周微软的媒体宣传简直太奇怪了。

Microsoft has been on like the weirdest press tour this week.

你有没有留意？他们开了个Build大会，宣布了一堆AI新动态，核心意思就是：我们不再绑定OpenAI了，现在可以放手做自己的事，要打造最顶尖的AI模型。

I don't know if you've paid attention to it, but they had this build event where they announced a bunch of their AI announcements and the core thing was like, hey, look, you know, we are we're not wedded to OpenAI anymore so we can just go do our stuff and we're gonna build like the best AI models.

但很多内容其实是在承认自己落后了——就像最近谷歌在编程工具上那样。结果呢？他们在好几篇报道里被狠狠打脸。

But a lot of it was like them talking about like how like we know I mean I guess you want to acknowledge it you're behind just like Google did recently with the coding apps, but they really got taken to the cleaners in a couple of these pieces.

我最喜欢的一句，出自The Verge。

My favorite line was one in the verge.

让我想想。

Let's see.

多年来，AI领域一直依赖与OpenAI的早期独家合作，但这段充满戏剧性的关系逐渐从婚姻变成了暧昧，到四月底实际上已经分道扬镳，尽管微软目前仍是OpenAI的主要云服务提供商。

For years, AI business leaned hard on its early and exclusive partnership with OpenAI, but the drama filled marriage slowly devolved into a situationship, and the pair effectively separated in late April, though Microsoft is still OpenAI's primary cloud partner for now.

今年的Build大会，感觉就像刚离婚的人在Instagram上发自拍求关注。

This year's build had the vibe of a freshly single divorcee posting the thirst thirst trap on Instagram.

在开发者大会上总能感受到变化，微软CEO萨提亚·纳德拉周二在台上说，这类活动的意义就在于直面新机遇——而微软现在明确表态：好了，我们准备好了，要和OpenAI正面硬刚。

It's always fun to be at developer conferences and great times have changed, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella said on stage Tuesday adding that events like this are about are about coming to grips with the new opportunity and to do that Microsoft has basically said, alright, we are ready to go and compete head to head with OpenAI.

微软AI部门之一的负责人穆斯塔法·苏莱曼告诉《The Verge》，他们的目标是证明自己能跻身全球四大实验室之列。

The goal is to prove that we can become one of the top four labs in the world, Mustafa Suleyman, the head of one of Microsoft AI divisions, told The Verge.

他说，目前真正重要的实验室有三个：Google DeepMind、OpenAI和Anthropic。

He said there's three labs that matter: Google DeepMind, OpenAI, and Anthropic.

我们现在还不是其中之一，而这正是我一贯的目标。

We are not one of them at the moment, and that's always been my intention.

我特别喜欢的一点是，Meta竟然没被列进去。虽然大家心里大概都有数，但把它这么明确地排除在外，看着还是蛮有意思的。

I just love that Meta is not on there, even though, I mean, we kind of know it, but still, it's always interesting to see it place that definitively.

我一直在琢磨这事儿，所以就像苹果只靠掌控iPhone这个终端用户入口就拥有了机会一样。

I've been thinking about this, so the same way Apple solely by owning the end user real estate with the iPhone has an opportunity.

微软肯定也是，我是说，我们老是听到这类消息。

Microsoft certainly, I mean, we hear about this all the time.

现在人人都有Copilot，几千万、上亿用户，不管具体数字是多少。

Everyone has copilot, tens of millions, hundreds of millions of people, whatever it is.

如果他们真能把这事儿理顺，那就挺有意思的。

If they figure it out, it's interesting.

你觉得一年后，微软和苹果会在这个领域变得重要吗？

Do you think there's a world where Microsoft and Apple a year from now are interesting in this?

我都不用谈什么‘可能性’了。

I'm not even gonna Of say a world.

谷歌一年内就迅速崛起，你觉得微软还有机会吗？

Are are winning, but even the way Google within a year the span of a year became a player, Do you think Microsoft has a chance?

微软肯定有希望。

Do you think Microsoft Definitely.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Sure.

为什么不呢？

Why not?

我的意思是，他们像你说的，有Office这样的产品。

I mean, they they have like you said, they have office.

他们能接触到OpenAI的知识产权。

They have access to OpenAI's IP.

我觉得与其这么说，不如换个更好的问题。

I don't think they're like well here's a better question.

首先，我先回答你的问题，然后我再提我的问题，这样咱们就结束了。

I mean like first of all okay let me answer your question then I'll ask my question to sort of end this.

我觉得他们有机会，就像你说的，他们有那些产品。

So I think there's a chance and they have the like you said the products.

苹果也有机会，他们同样拥有产品。

I think there's a chance for Apple they have the products.

如果你是微软，为什么还要费劲去研发基础AI模型呢？

If you're Microsoft why do you care about building foundational AI models?

我真的搞不懂这一点。

I seriously don't get it.

我觉得是因为。

I think it's because of.

我觉得这属于组织层面的问题，他就在那儿。

I think it's like this is one of those things organizationally, like, he's there.

他去那儿不是为了开发新的 Copilot 功能，而我最欣赏的，还是那种特别微软的做法——谷歌好像已经不再这么玩了。他们现在搞什么 Microsoft IQ，还有 Work IQ、Fabric IQ、Foundry IQ、Web IQ，一堆名字。

He's not there to, like, build a new copilot product feature and and my favorite still is in the most Microsoft way which kind of Google seems to have moved past, like they have this new thing Microsoft IQ, but there's also Work IQ, then there's Fabric IQ, then there's Foundry IQ, then there's Web IQ.

他们推产品、起名字的方式有时候真挺滑稽的，但我觉得，这种层面的东西其实没那么重要。

Like just their way they kind of roll out and name products is comical at times, but I think they like that's the stuff that that layer is not interesting.

他是被请去的，在公司里有实权，能真正参与决策。

Like he was brought on and he has power within the organization to be a player.

我觉得就这么简单。

And I think it's that simple.

你觉得是吗

Do you think it's

但我还想再深挖一层。

But I wanna dig a level deeper on this.

好吧。

All right.

他是被请来专门做这件事的。

So he was brought on to do this.

微软这么做，战略上到底有什么目的呢？

Why strategically is there a reason for Microsoft to do this?

你能

Can you

我觉得其实没有这个必要。

think I of don't think there is.

事实上，我觉得苹果那边等等。

In fact, I think the Apple Hold on.

现在在我这一行，模型路由已经成了最热门的话题。

So I can tell you model routing has become so dominant in conversations in my world now.

以前大家只关心得用最新的前沿模型，觉得一个模型能搞定一切，结果才两个月，所有人都在说：得用合适的模型解决合适的问题，要优化成本，要算清楚token开销。

Like it went from, know, like just there's you have to have the latest frontier model and they're all encompassing and within the span of two months, everyone is like, find the right model for the right problem, model cost optimization, tokenomics.

所以如果我是微软，我其实也同意。

So so if I'm Microsoft, I actually agree.

我觉得这不是个好办法。

I don't think that's the right approach.

我觉得，你知道吗？

I think, like, you know what?

就让他们自己去竞争吧。

Let them all battle it out.

苹果那边可能会突然把Siri打造成顶级助手，因为那时候它被公认是最佳模型，大家也就忘了贝拉·拉姆齐的广告了，微软说不定也有机会。

Apple over there is gonna suddenly make Siri a powerhouse because it's gonna be called the best model at the time and we're all gonna forget about Bella Ramsey's ad and maybe Microsoft has a has a chance too.

但好吧。

But Okay.

让我给你

Me give

一个他们可能这么做的理由。

one one reason why they might do it.

萨提亚·纳德拉正在和本·汤普森对话。

Satya Nadella is speaking to Ben Thompson in Strachery.

本·汤普森告诉萨提亚·纳德拉，OpenAI 是 Azure 上的重要客户。

Ben Thompson tells Satya Nadella that OpenAI is a major tenant on Azure.

他说，OpenAI 或者 Anthropic 迟早会自己建平台，这很正常。

He goes, They're a major tenant, but let's face Anthropic over time or OpenAI over time will build their own.

这很合理。

It makes sense.

我猜他说的应该是云服务。

Pretty sure that's talking about a cloud service.

OpenAI 之前也提过要自建云平台。

And OpenAI has talked about building its own cloud service.

所以最终，如果你是微软，就得和 OpenAI 竞争。

And so ultimately, if you're Microsoft, you're going to compete with OpenAI.

OpenAI 可以自己买服务器，搭在 Azure 上，再把 AI 模型放上去。

So OpenAI can build the servers which you have for Azure and then put the AI model on top of them.

要跟他们抗衡，唯一的办法就是开发自己的基础模型。

The only way to compete with that is to have your own foundational models.

也许这就是原因。

Maybe that's the reason.

好吧。

Okay.

我的意思是，我还是不太信这个说法。

I mean, I still don't buy it though.

但是

But

为什么呢？

Why not?

我说不上来。

I don't know.

如果OpenAI真建了自己的AI云平台，而你又没法反驳这一点，那或许你真该自己开发模型了。

If OpenAI makes OpenAI AI cloud and you can't answer that right then maybe you do want to build your own models.

这假设可不小。

That's a big if.

确实如此。

That is

是个很大的假设。

a big if.

确实是。

It is actually.

但萨提亚·纳德拉认为这有可能。

But Satya Nozella believes it's a possibility.

等等。

Wait.

这其实挺有意思的，因为现在正好是IPO旺季，Anthropic、OpenAI、SpaceX这些公司都热火朝天的，可没人提过OpenAI的AI云业务模式。

That is actually interesting because it's funny, like, heading into IPO season, like hot IPO summer with Anthropic, OpenAI and everybody, SpaceX, No one has actually talked about the AI cloud in terms of OpenAI's potential business model.

萨姆只是顺口提了一句。

That was like a passing comment from Sam.

你觉得萨提亚是真这么想的，还是知道些什么内情？

Like, do you think Satya really believes that or has some information.

他居然会提到这一点，这让我挺惊讶的。

I don't know like the fact that he's even addressing that is kind of shocking to me.

确实很有意思。

Very interesting.

对啊。

Yeah.

不好意思，刚才那个是我弄的。

So sorry I had that.

我之前把这事写进文档里，后来就给忘了，但我觉得这正是你可能在找的

I put that in the doc and forgot about it, but that to me is what you might be

对，这就是个故事。

looking That's a story.

有意思的是，我翻了所有报道，都没看到哪位记者提到过这一点，也没把这两者联系起来。

Funny enough, none of the report I didn't see any reporters and bring that up and make that connection.

要说谁最擅长挖出这些，那确实是汤普森，但整个讨论氛围还是

I mean, I guess Thompson was the best at getting it out, but still like the conversation.

萨提亚知道些什么？

What does Satya know?

我是说，他肯定知道点什么。

What does Satya I mean, he's got to know something.

他掌握着

He's got

一些关键信息。

to know something.

他的IP授权能用到2032年。

He has all their IP till 2032.

没错。

So Yeah.

好的。

Alright.

大家原谅我这周声音不太好了。

Well, folks forgive my voice this week.

周三晚上我在纽约第42街港务局旁边的一家啤酒酒吧看尼克斯队赢了马刺队，结果喝得一滴不剩。现在快到周五晚上了，我想干脆把剩下的那点也倒掉算了。

I just completely blew it out at the beer authority next to Port Authority on 42nd Street in New York on Wednesday night watching the Knicks beat the Spurs and we're about to head into Friday night and I think I'm gonna let what's less what's left of it go.

所以，我这次不去WWDC现场，说不定还是件好事。

So maybe it's a good thing I'm not gonna be on-site at WWDC.

我到时候怕是说不出话来。

I won't be able to speak.

我此刻正坐在宾州广场18楼，往下看着麦迪逊广场花园，外面人可真多。

I I'm sitting here looking down at Madison Square Garden from the 18th Floor Of Penn Plaza, and it's it's there's a lot of people out there.

虽然他们今晚不在这儿打比赛，但放眼望去，到处都是蓝色和橙色的球衣。

Even though they're not playing here, there's blue and orange as far as the eye can see.

你是凯尔特人队的球迷？

Are you you're a Celtics fan?

是的。

I am.

不过我现在还是支持尼克斯队。

I'm rooting for the Knicks right now.

我对纽约的其他球队真的提不起兴趣，像洋基队、巨人队或者喷气机队，我永远不可能喜欢上它们。

I I'm out of New York sports teams, like, there's no part of me that could ever come around to the Yankees, Giants, or Jets.

但说真的，我也说不好。

But I don't know.

尼克斯队，尤其是这支球队，你根本恨不起来。

The Knicks, especially this team, I mean, you can't hate.

我不是说我就彻底站队了，但我确实一直在给他们加油。

And and and I'm I've they they've I'm not saying I'm bandwagoning fully, but I'm certainly rooting for them.

作为NBA的普通球迷，这两支球队你根本没法讨厌，看比赛本身就是一种享受。

But as a general fan of the NBA, I mean, are the can't root against either of these teams and it's just good to watch.

我正在

I'm

享受这场比赛。

enjoying it.

这真是个特别精彩的故事。

Such a fun story.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

所以这就是我的情况，不知道你怎么看。

So that's that's I don't know about you.

这就是我的周末安排。

That's my weekend.

今晚就对着电视大喊三小时。

Tonight, yell at the TV for three hours straight.

明天一早起来，拿份报纸，发现一堆数据中心服务器摆在路边，结果飞到旧金山却进不了WWDC。

Tomorrow, wake up, get the newspaper and see a whole stack of data center servers on the curb Sunday flight at San Francisco only to not be let into WWDC.

我挺期待的。

I'm excited.

你坚持住了吗？

Think Did you hold on.

我刚看到个新闻，说英伟达打算付钱让人在家建数据中心之类的。

I'm just gonna there was that story that NVIDIA is gonna pay people to, like, build data centers in their house or something.

我看到了。

I saw that.

贾森，赶紧把我们加上吧。

Sign us up, Jensen.

我们随时准备好了。

We're ready.

不行。

No.

我们随时准备好了。

We're ready.

不行。

No.

其实，不行。

Actually, no.

亚历克斯还没准备好。

Alex is not ready.

我要是真把那种设备装家里，早上你准能在人行道上找到我的尸体，咱们根本没那条件。

I would you you would find my cold body on the sidewalk in the morning if I put one of those in the that we don't have.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得纽约的公寓房东大概是最不可能参与这个的，而且

I think New York apartment owner holders are probably last on that list with

视频。

the video.

我们还是别搞后院服务器了。

We we pass on the backyard server.

好的，拉詹。

Alright, Ranjan.

周末愉快，兄弟。

Have a great weekend, man.

再见。

See you.

哦，太棒了。

Oh, sweet.

各位，我和拉詹将在6月18日的大型科技峰会现场直播这期节目。

Folks, Ranjan and I are gonna be doing the show live at the Big Technology Summit on June 18.

我觉得在你们听到几期正片之前，这可能是我最后一次提这件事了，因为我们会把节目上传到平台。

I think it's probably the last time I'll mention it until you hear some of the episodes because we're gonna post them on the feed.

活动地点在旧金山，网址是 commonwealthclubsummit.bigtechnology.com。

It's gonna be in San Francisco at the commonwealthclubsummit.bigtechnology.com.

票快卖光了。

We're just about sold out.

感谢所有报名的朋友。

Thank you to everybody who signed up.

大家的反应超出了我们的预期，我们在旧金山的那天一定会特别精彩。

It's been pretty overwhelming the response that we've gotten and we're gonna have one hell of a day out there in San Francisco.