债券抛售对您的钱包意味着什么，以及为您的家庭简化理财

我觉得这对很多人来说是个意外。

I think it's a surprise to people.

挪威。

Norway.

挪威。

Norway.

北欧国家。

Scandinavian country.

嗯，北欧国家以幸福指数高而闻名。

Well, the Scandinavian countries are known for their happiness ratings.

他们在那里通常表现不错。

They tend to do pretty well there.

猜猜我为什么永远不会去那里，但那是另一个话题。

Guess why I never would go there, but that's a separate issue.

这跟你不太搭。

It doesn't fit in naturally with you.

如果你看看bloomberg.com的理财板块，那是我们的首页，是你个人理财的目的地，这是一个跨平台的项目，不仅仅局限于电视屏幕。

If you look at bloomberg.com money, which is our home page, your destination for personal finance, this is a cross platform effort that extends beyond your television screen.

这个故事确实引起了我们的注意。

This is a story that definitely got our attention.

挪威连续第二年位居全球退休指数榜首，这很大程度上是因为退休制度面临压力，人们担心自己的国家会没钱了。

Norway tops the global retirement index for a second straight year, and a lot of it has to do with the fact that retirement systems are under pressure and people are worried that their country's gonna run out of money.

但挪威是石油大国，拥有庞大的主权财富基金。

But Norway is a oil powerhouse, and it has a massive sovereign wealth fund.

那个国家非常富有。

There's a lot of wealth in that country.

而且不止奥斯陆。

And there's more than Oslo.

人们通常的印象是赫尔辛基、西边的斯德哥尔摩，然后是奥斯陆，但它们其实各不相同。

The stereotype is Helsinki over West Stockholm and then over Oslo, and they're all different.

我明白。

I get that.

而且实际上物价还挺高的。

And it's actually fairly expensive.

那里并不是最便宜的地方。

It is not the cheapest place.

对。

No.

确实不便宜。

It isn't.

但那里有很强的社会保障体系。

But there's a strong social safety net.

社会保障体系是世界级的，因为那里有那么多石油。

The social safety net is world class because of all that oil in there.

但还有一点，

But also

关键是国家不大。

key is that it's not a big country.

这是个很小的国家。

It's a small country.

所以你可以做所有这些事情，而不会破产。

So you can do all those things and not go bankrupt.

我的意思是，想想新加坡，他们能做到那些事情。

I mean, you think about Singapore and what they're able to do.

在中国或美国，真的很难复制那种模式。

It's really hard to replicate that model in a China or in The US.

我在新加坡莱佛士酒店的露天酒吧说过，那是很久以前的事了，我说那里又热又闷。

I said at the Raffles outdoor bar in Singapore three lifetimes ago and said it's too hot and muggy.

你从来不会有那种感觉。

You never feel that.

你永远无法退休，

You can never retire from

在挪威那种地方。

a that in Norway.

不。

No.

不。

No.

不。

No.

完全没有。

Not at all.

但是，你知道，我觉得这是重中之重。

But, know, I I would say this is front and center.

我多年来一直说，斯嘉丽，美国的退休制度已经失败了。

I've said for years, Scarlett, that the American retirement system has failed.

退休的比例是零，或者说

The percentage was zero retirement or the

我其实一直觉得，等我要用社保的时候，社保早就没了。

I mean, I kind of always assumed that there would be no Social Security by the time I would need it.

我就是按这个假设来办事的。

I just kinda operate on that assumption.

而且，各位，大约一个月前，前财政部长杰克·卢也跟我们说过，在2028年大选之后，除了社保改革，没有其他更重要的问题了。

And and we had Jack Lew with us folks, the former treasury secretary a month ago or so, who made clear after the election of two thousand twenty eight, there's no other issue than the amendment of social security as well.

但我认为，这十个国家的情况就完全不同了。

But I think the 10 countries, it's all a different story.

苏珊，我们这里有五个这样的国家。

Susan, we got five of them here.

爱尔兰经济繁荣，前提是你买得起那里的房产。

Ireland is boom if you can afford the real estate.

租房成本高得离谱。

Renting your owner is extraordinary.

所以，西欧在这些国家中占了很大比例。

So Western Europe, highly represented there.

而且，还有社会保障体系。

And, social safety net.

这些地方都是有钱人退休去的地方，我觉得。

These are where the fancy people are retiring, I would say.

这些地方都比东南亚那些地方贵，比如越南、马来西亚、曼谷、马来西亚，还有菲律宾。

These are all more expensive than what you see in Southeast Asia with Vietnam, Malaysia, Bangkok, Malaysia, and with The Philippines as well.

哦，看看

Oh, look at

那个。

that.

捷克共和国也在名单上。

Czech Republic is on there as well.

作为第十个。

As the tenth one.

你知道，我们得看看，得看看再说。

You know, we'll have to see we'll have to see on it.

但我想说，这是我和斯嘉丽在进入2027年时想重点做的事情。

But but I I would say this is front centered, something Scarlet and I wanna do much more of as we go into 2027.

我之前提到油价今天更低了，但感觉上并不是这样。

I mentioned how oil prices are lower today, but it doesn't feel like it.

油价又跌了一波。

They just took another leg lower.

实际上，这给股市在盘中交易带来了提振。

And in fact, that has given stocks a boost in intraday trading right now.

现在主要股指都翻绿了。

You have the major indexes in the green now.

哇。

Wow.

道琼斯、

The Dow, the

标普500，

S and P,

还有纳斯达克都在上涨，因为人们希望有某种外交途径来结束伊朗的战争。

and the Nasdaq taking the leg up because there's hopes that there's gonna be some kind of diplomatic way to end the war in Iran.

油价又跌了。

Oil prices again down.

我们看看股票、债券、货币、大宗商品，斯嘉丽说必须得看，我也这么觉得。

We look at equities, bonds, currencies, commodities, Scarlet Food demands it, I say.

你看，油价现在每桶101美元。

And you see it with oil there at 101 a barrel.

收益率表现很惊人，尤其是30年期。

Yields have been remarkable, particularly 30.

稍后我们会请杰弗里·罗森伯格来聊聊这个。

We're gonna go to Jeffrey Rosenberg in a bit on that.

但现在有个重要的采访，不是关于加拿大的，全是关于墨西哥的。

But right now, an important interview, it is not all Canada, it is all Mexico.

在彭博，我们知道申鲍姆政府里有很多人每天都在听我们彭博的节目，包括斯嘉丽和我，还有其他同事。

And we know at Bloomberg, that so many within the Schenbaum administration listen to our Bloomberg work from Scarlet and myself and others each and every day.

他是墨西哥外交部长，这份工作可不轻松，他毕业于芝加哥大学。大卫·古拉采访罗伯托·贝拉斯科·阿尔瓦雷斯。

He is the Foreign Affairs Secretary for Mexico, a demanding job of the University of Chicago, David Gura with Roberto Velasco Alvarez.

大卫？

David?

非常感谢。

Thank you very much.

部长先生，非常感谢您能来。

Mister secretary, thank you very much for for being here.

您的职业生涯一直专注于北美关系，特别是美国、墨西哥和加拿大之间的关系。

You have spent your career focused in in part now on the, the North American relationships between US, Mexico, and Canada.

您如何看待当前美墨关系的状况？

How do you assess the the state of The US Mexico relationship right now?

嗯，我们之间的关系有很多对话。

Well, we have a relation, that has a lot of dialogue.

我们之间的关系在许多不同领域都有深入合作，包括安全领域，这基于我们所秉持的核心原则，比如尊重我们的主权和领土完整。

We have a relation, with deep cooperation on many different areas, including security based, on what we view as core principles, like respect to our sovereignty and territorial integrity.

但总的来说，我认为这是一个良好且牢固的关系。

But, taking all of that, I think it's, overall a good relation, a strong relation.

你肯定听到美国总统在这里的讲话了吧。

No doubt you heard the president of The United States speaking here.

他把墨西哥称为卡特尔暴力的中心。

He talked about Mexico as the epicenter of cartel violence.

他说美国与一个在他看来被卡特尔控制的国家共享2000英里的边境，这是不可接受的。

He said it was unacceptable that The US could have a 2,000 mile border with a country that is, in his estimation, controlled by cartels.

你对此有何回应？

How do you respond to that?

嗯，我能告诉你的是，过去两年里，墨西哥的凶杀率已经下降了一半。

Well, what I can tell you is that in the past two years, the homicide rate in Mexico has, halved.

墨西哥的凶杀案减少了51%。

There's a 51% reduction in homicides in Mexico.

大多数犯罪也呈下降趋势。

Most crimes, are also in a downward trajectory.

新政府的安全战略带来了很多进展，其中包括对情报和调查的新重视。

There's a lot of progress given the new government security strategy that includes a new focus on intelligence and investigations.

而且，正如我所说，我们与美国之间的合作是基于这四个原则，其中也包括我们所说的“不附属于他人的合作”。

There's also, as I said, cooperation with The United States based on these four principles that, we also, include, what we call cooperation without subordination.

那么，在对待该地区暴力问题的态度上，你们和美国是完全一致的吗？还是说在某些方面你们和美国有分歧？

Is there, total alignment with The US when it comes to its approach to violence in in the region, or do you do you differ with The US in some way?

没有。

No.

我认为，美国对待其他国家的方式是不同的。

I think, The US has a different approach with other countries.

我们有自己的一套合作方式。

We have our own approach to cooperation.

正如我所说，这些原则对我们来说是根本性的。

As I said, these principles for us are fundamental.

它们写入了我们的宪法。

They are in our constitution.

我们必须尊重我们的法律框架。

We have to respect our legal framework.

不过，考虑到这些，我觉得我们做得还不错。

But, with that, considered, I think we have, good work.

我们取得了不错的进展，也取得了一些成就。

We have good progress, and we have good achievements.

你看，比如边境的数据，芬太尼到达边境的数量减少了60%。

I mean, you look at, for example, the numbers at the border, there's a 60% reduction in the fentanyl that is reaching the border.

白宫也认可了这一点。

The White House has, recognized that.

过去几年，边境的非正规移民人数也出现了历史性的下降。

There's also a historic reduction in the, figures of, irregular migration that we've seen in the border in the past, couple years.

所以，我觉得我们现在的情况和以前不一样了。

So, I think we are, in a different situation from where we were before.

我们看到其他国家与美国进行了联合军事行动。

We've seen other countries enter into joint military operations with The US.

看来这对你来说是一条红线。

Seems that's a red line for for you.

这是你不会考虑的事情吗？

Is that something that you wouldn't consider?

对于墨西哥来说，正如我所说，必须尊重我们的领土完整和主权，这意味着在墨西哥的行动只能由墨西哥当局进行。

Well, for Mexico, Mexico, as I said, there has to be respect for our territorial integrity, for our sovereignty, and that entails that operations in Mexico only correspond to Mexican authorities.

我们看到，在总统第二任期开始时，已有超过20万墨西哥人被驱逐出境。

We've seen the deportation of more than 200,000 Mexicans during the start of the this the president's second term.

这么多墨西哥人回国，对你的国家产生了什么影响？

What's the impact of that been on your country having that influx of Mexicans returning

回到墨西哥？

to Mexico?

我们有一个接收从美国返回的公民的策略。

Have a a strategy to receive our citizens when they are returned from The United States.

这个计划叫“墨西哥拥抱你”。

It's called Mexico Tia Braca.

我们提供社会项目的准入。

And we provide access to social programs.

我们提供基本资源，让他们能重新融入墨西哥，找到工作，获得医疗服务。

We provide basic resources so they can reintegrate to Mexico and they can get jobs, they can get access to health care.

到目前为止，我觉得我们接收墨西哥同胞的工作做得还不错，你知道，他们就是自己人。

And, so far, I think, we've been, successful in receiving, our Mexican fellows, you know, as what they are, part of our country.

你说的墨西哥同胞，确实有这些人。

There are the Mexican fellows, as you put it.

但也有第三国被遣返的情况。

There are also these third country deportations as well.

成千上万不是墨西哥的人被送到这里。

Thousands of people not from Mexico being sent sent there.

我很好奇，你欢迎这些第三国被遣返的人吗？

And I'm curious, do you welcome that, these third country deportations?

嗯，确实有一些人在美国边境被拒绝入境，出于人道主义考虑。

Well, there is a number of people that are rejected, at the border, in The United States and, out of humanitarian grounds.

我们接收了一些这样的人，给他们提供返回原籍国的机会，或者如果他们在墨西哥需要保护，我们也提供一些途径。

We have, received some of, these individuals, and, we provide them with an opportunity to return to their countries of origin or in cases where they require protection in Mexico, we offer them pathways as well.

给我们讲讲贸易谈判的最新进展吧。

Give us an update on trade negotiations.

美国贸易代表詹姆斯·格里尔在对外关系委员会说，贸易逆差正在急剧扩大，这是他的原话。

We had Jameson Greer, The US trade representative here at the Council on Foreign Relations saying the trade deficit is exploding, in his words.

在你看来，这些谈判进展到什么程度了？

How how close are those negotiations as you see them?

嗯，我一直保持谨慎乐观的态度。

Well, I'm always, cautiously optimistic.

我们一直在进行建设性的对话。

We continue to have constructive conversations.

我们保持着积极的接触。

We continue to have positive engagement.

不过目前还没有达成协议。

We don't have, yet, an agreement.

显然，我们讨论的是已经实施的各种关税，特别是汽车行业和钢铁行业，这些对墨西哥来说很令人担忧。

Obviously, we're talking about the different $2.32 tariffs that have been implemented particularly the car industry and the steel sector are of worry for Mexico.

我们还在继续讨论美国所说的非关税壁垒。

We continue to talk about what The US describes as non tariff barriers.

我觉得我们已经取得了很大进展，希望在不远的将来能达成协议。

I think we've made a lot of progress and, hopefully, we will get, to, an agreement, in the not so distant future.

你觉得钢铁和汽车关税有可能降低吗？

Likely to see reductions on steel and car tariffs, do you think?

那是我们的希望。

Well, that's our hope.

还是保持乐观。

Optimistic still.

再说一次，谨慎地。

Again, cautiously.

乐观。

Optimistic.

乐观。

Optimistic.

你是在芝加哥大学读的书。

You studied at the University of Chicago.

是的。

Yes.

当时有玛莎·努斯鲍姆他们讲的政治理论课。

There was political theory with Martha Nussbaum and the like.

你还花了很多时间和戴维·阿克塞尔罗德在一起。

Also spent a lot of time with David Axelrod.

所以你对美国政治很了解。

So you understand US politics.

既然这样，我很好奇你怎么看美国现在的时间表，也就是政府目前的时间表，距离中期选举还有几周。

Given that, I'm curious how you think about the timeline The US is operating under right now, the administration's operating under with the midterm elections here many weeks away.

你觉得这是不是一种推动因素，或者是在影响特别是贸易方面的对话？

Do do you see that as a forcing mechanism or something that's shaping conversations about trade in particular?

嗯，你知道，我们尽量小心，不让自己卷入美国政治。

Well, you know, we try to be very careful about, not getting ourselves entangled, with US politics.

我可以告诉你的是，我们显然和所有人一样在关注选举，而且我们会在选举前后继续与美国接触，因为这是任何一个共享如此长边境、拥有如此多共同利益（包括你刚才提到的贸易）的政府的责任。

What I can tell you is, that we're obviously, watching, the the elections like everybody else, everybody else, and, that, we will continue to engage with The US before and after because that is, responsibility of any government that shares such a big border, that shares so many, interest including the trade that you just mentioned.

USMCA不会轻易续签。

USMCA not renewed with a rubber stamps.

这些谈判正在进行中。

These negotiations are are ongoing.

如果墨西哥和美国达成协议，但加拿大没有参与，美国与加拿大之间也没有协议，那对北美来说意味着什么？

What would it mean for North America were there to be a deal, say, between Mexico and The United States, but not one with with Canada, not one between The US and Canada?

嗯，我的意思是，USMCA的框架仍然是三边的。

Well, I mean, the the framework of, the USMCA continues to be trilateral.

有些方面需要三边讨论。

There are some aspects that will need to be discussed trilaterally.

但当然，有些问题是双边的。

But, of course, there are issues that are bilateral.

USMCA，之前的NAFTA，一直都有一些双边性质的方面。

There have always been aspects of the USMCA, previously the NAFTA, that were bilateral in their nature.

而且，各国之间进行双边接触，并以这种方式达成一些协议，也是很自然的。

And, it's natural for, the countries to have also bilateral engagement and to, reach some agreements in that manner.

如果方便的话，我想问几个关于亚洲的问题。

Few questions about Asia, if I could.

你一直在纽约来回奔波，但也回过墨西哥。

You've been shuttling around New York, but you also went back to Mexico.

韩国领导层进行了国事访问。

There was a state visit South Korea's leadership.

你如何看待墨西哥和韩国达成贸易协定的前景？

How do you assess the prospect of a a Mexico South Korea trade deal?

嗯，我觉得我们不会达成自由贸易协定。

Well, I don't think, we will get, to a free trade agreement.

我们更关注的是那些能体现两国经济互补性的不同协议。

We're looking more at, different agreements that show the complementarities between the economies.

当然，对话会继续，看看最终能走到哪一步。

Of course, the conversations will continue to see where we end.

不过与此同时，我们正在深化多个领域的合作，包括科技、人工智能，当然还有韩国企业在墨西哥的投资，此外还包括韩国文化，比如K-pop，这方面大家兴趣都很浓厚。

But in the meantime, what we are deepening is our cooperation in several different areas including science and technology, artificial intelligence, obviously, the different investments of the Korean companies that are, in Mexico, including also, Korean culture, k pop, that is of great interest.

你在墨西哥跟很多人聊天呢。

You're chatting lot of people in Mexico.

墨西哥可是全球市场。

World is Mexico.

也是K-pop最大的市场。

Largest market for k pop.

所以，我们正在探讨在墨西哥城开设一个K-pop或韩国文化中心，以及在韩国设立一个墨西哥文化中心。

So, we're exploring, the the opening of a k pop or case culture center in Mexico City and the opening of a Mexican culture center in South Korea.

那进展如何？

How about that?

这将会很有趣。

It's gonna be interesting.

本周我们的焦点主要集中在美中关系上，我很好奇在这一届政府任期内，墨西哥对中国的态度发生了怎样的变化。

Our focus here so much this week is on The US China relationship, and I'm curious how Mexico's tech toward China has changed under this this administration.

显然，几十年来我们和中国一直保持着友好的政治关系。

Well, obviously, we have had, throughout, the decades a friendly political relation with China.

我们打算继续保持这种关系。

We intend to keep it that way.

我们和中国政府保持着持续的对话。

We have, an ongoing dialogue, with the Chinese government.

当然，和世界其他国家一样，我们也希望美中关系朝着积极的方向发展。

We also, have, obviously, an interest as the rest of the world in, looking at the relation between The US and China going in a positive, direction.

所以我们期待这些对话能够顺利进行，取得积极成果。

So, we expect these conversations to go well to have, positive, results.

至于贸易方面，我们现在的重点是“墨西哥计划”，这个计划的核心是把这些年流失的供应链带回墨西哥，并且提升我们现有供应链的附加值。

And, when it comes to to, trade, I mean, our focus, right now is, plan Mexico, which is centered in bringing back to Mexico supply chains that have left over the years and to fostering greater added value in the supply supply chains that we already have in Mexico.

再过几天巴西就要举行大选了。

We are days away from an election in in Brazil.

如果卢拉总统竞选连任失败，那会如何改变贵国与巴西的关系呢？

Were president Lulu to lose his bid for for reelection, how would that change your country's relationship with with Brazil?

嗯，和对待拉丁美洲其他国家一样，我们继续与该地区的所有政府保持对话。

Well, as, with the rest of Latin America, we continue to have dialogue, with, all the, governments in the region.

我们会看看巴西的选举结果如何。

We will see what's the result, in Brazil.

我们与卢拉总统的政府关系非常好。

We have an excellent relation with the government of president Lula.

我刚刚在巴西与他和他的团队会面。

I was, just in in Brazil meeting with him and his team.

所以，我们就等着看选举结果吧。

So let's wait and see the result of the election.

最后我想问一个关于拉丁美洲整体变化的问题。

I'll close with a question just about changes in Latin America broadly.

我们看到这种向右转的趋势，我很好奇这种转变如何影响了你与本地区其他国家的关系，以及它如何继续影响这些关系。

We've seen this shift to the right, and I'm curious how that move has shaped your relationship with other countries in in the region, how it continues to shape them.

我们正在努力寻找与该地区不同政府进行务实合作的领域。

We're trying to find pragmatic areas of cooperation with different governments of the region.

当然，我们不是所有人都想法一致，但在公共卫生、科学和贸易等领域，我们还是能找到合作的空间，即使政治上不一定完全一致。

Of course, not all of us think alike, but we can find areas like public health, science, and trade where we can find space to continue working together even though we are not aligned necessarily politically.

很高兴和你交流。

Very good to speak to you.

非常感谢。

Thank you very much.

谢谢你，大卫。

Thank you, David.

作为

As the

墨西哥外交部长贝拉斯科，在联合国这里接受我的采访，现在交还给你。

Foreign Affairs secretary of Mexico, Velasco, joining me here at the United Back to you.

大卫·古鲁斯，非常感谢。

David Guruth, thank you so much.

这是从联合国玫瑰园，俯瞰东河发回的报道。

That from the United Nations Rose Garden overlooking the East River as well.

这里是彭博财经，我们在彭博日常的股票、债券、货币和大宗商品分析中，想找一位在卡内基梅隆大学泰珀商学院学过金融随机微积分、熬过布朗运动、还有布鲁诺·德皮埃尔的伊藤引理，但又能聊个人理财和退休规划的人。

It is Bloomberg Money, and what we're trying to do here within the daily Bloomberg grind of sophisticated equity bond currency commodity analysis is find somebody who at Carnegie Mellon Tepper took stochastic calculus for finance, survived Brownian motion, and Bruno DePierre's Ito's Lemma, but can talk about personal finance, retirement.

给我们讲讲

Break it down

吧。

for us.

能做到这一点的只有一个人。

There's only one guy that can do that.

今天杰弗里·罗森伯格从贝莱德来参加我们的节目。

Jeffrey Rosenberg joins us from BlackRock today.

你怎么简化我们现在这个疯狂的金融世界？

How do you simplify this nuts finance world we're in right now?

你怎么跟爸妈、孩子解释清楚？

How do you bring it down for mom, dad, your kids?

嗯，大问题，卡拉和我之前就在聊这个。

Well, the big questions, Carla and I were talking about this before.

你知道，债券已经进入了主流媒体的视野，大家都在想这是怎么回事，债券市场是不是要崩溃了？

You know, bonds had made it into the regular media, and people are wondering what's going on, and is the bond market freaking out?

而且，理解利率变化的一个很简单的方法是，利率反映了资本的边际成本。

And, you know, a very simple way of of kind of understanding what's going on in interest rates is interest rates reflect the marginal cost of capital.

它们还伴随着机会成本。

There's a opportunity cost associated with them.

我们在市场上看到的，其实是大量资本需求的反映。

And what we're seeing in the market is a reflection of a lot of demands for capital.

我们的经济增长在加速。

We have growth that's accelerating.

人工智能投资带来的资本支出也在加速。

We have capital expenditures from the AI investment that are accelerating.

我们有创纪录的债务和赤字，所以国债负担很重。

We have record debt and deficits, so we have treasury indebtedness.

所有这些，再加上常规的公司债券融资、抵押贷款支持证券融资和再融资活动。

All of this on top of our regular amount of corporate bond financing, mortgage backed security financing, refinancing activity.

所以这种对资本的竞争，是我们看到这一变化的重要原因。

And so this competition for capital is a big reason why we've seen this step

这是不是我们个人理财中的一个永久性转变？

Is it a permanent shift within our personal finance?

我们是不是要调整，卡洛斯太年轻了，不记得这个。

Do we adjust Carlos, too young to remember this.

但是，杰夫，我们是不是要重新适应我们以前知道的那个高利率时代？

But, Jeff, do we have to adjust back to what we knew a higher interest rate regime?

是的，我们确实要。

We we do.

这是一个结构性的变化，我觉得你真的得把这个结构性变化和更长的历史联系起来看。

This is a structural change, and I think you really have to sort of associate the structural change with a longer history.

这不是我们长期以来习惯的那种零利率和量化宽松。

It's not the thing we got used to for a long time, which was zero interest rates and QE.

金融危机后的那个时代持续了大概十到十五年，给了我们很低的房贷利率。

The post GFC era lasted, you know, ten, fifteen years, and it gave us very low mortgage rates.

它带来了惊人的房价上涨。

It gave us incredible housing price gains.

它带来了惊人的私募股权收益。

It gave us incredible private equity gains.

所有靠债务推动的东西在那个零利率环境下都表现很好，而我们现在显然已经脱离了那个零利率环境。

Everything that was fueled by debt did really well in that zero interest rate environment, and we're clearly out of that zero interest rate environment.

现在是一个实际利率更高的环境。

It's a higher real interest rate environment.

这是在讨论实际利率之前的论点。

That was the argument before real interest.

资本的机会成本更高了，而且

What's the opportunity cost of capital and a higher

让我今天早上请出莫什。

Let me bring up this morning, Moshe.

我们开始吧。

Let's go.

我来和杰弗里·罗森伯格聊聊这个话题。

I'll jump into this with Jeffrey Rosenberg.

这位是里克·里德。

This is Rick Reeder.

他曾是美联储主席的候选人之一。

He was on a short list to be the chairman of the Federal Reserve System.

据我所知，他现在还在贝莱德工作。

He, I believe, still works at BlackRock.

目前，市场的下一阶段受益于少数几个强劲的主题。

Right now, the next phase markets have benefited from a narrow set of powerful themes.

下一阶段可能需要对风险分配和机会来源有更精准的把握。

Next phase is likely to require greater precision and how risk is allocated and where opportunities are sourced.

我看了一下收益率曲线，五年期收益率现在有5%。

I look at the yield curve and the five year yield now gives you 5%.

只有两年期和三年期的收益率低于5%。

It's only the two year and the three year that's below 5%.

所以现在又是个存钱的好时机了。

So it's a good time to be a saver once again.

如果你有传统的养老金计划，那也不错。

And if you have a traditional pension plan, it's also good.

但收益率高了，我们是不是可以说，好吧，60/40的投资组合，哎呀，那又管用了。

But with higher yields, do we now say, okay, the sixty forty portfolio, oh, that that works again.

你说得真对，把这两方面都点出来了。

So you're spot on to to highlight both sides of this.

负债这边，比如房贷，有点让人头疼，但投资那边的机会更好。

The liability side, the mortgages, that's a little painful, but the opportunity side on the investment side is better.

我觉得不能就说60/40回来了，因为债券还有另一个大问题，就是它们和股票的表现关系怎么样。

I don't think you can conclude $60.40 is back because there's another whole issue with bonds, which is how do they perform with equities?

它们之间的关系是什么？

What's the relationship?

以前这种关系是非常强的分散风险的作用。

And that relationship used to be very powerfully diversifying.

以前，只要股市一有风吹草动，债券就会稳稳上涨。

We had an environment where bonds would reliably go up whenever there was a challenge to equities.

那是在通胀太低的时候。

That was an environment when we had too little inflation.

现在那种情况已经结束了。

So that's over.

我们已经经历了五年的高通胀。

We're five years into too much inflation.

在高通胀时期，债券就不再是真正的对冲工具了。

When you have too much inflation, bonds aren't really a hedge anymore.

就像你说的，它们适合用来赚取收益，这才是正确的看待方式。

They're good for income as you pointed out, and that's the way to think about them.

但说到分散风险，我们就得考虑拓宽分散投资的工具，不能只盯着传统的60/40组合。

But for diversification, we're gonna have to think about broadening our diversifier set away from just thinking about the traditional sixty forty.

我们现在说的是50/30/20。

We talk about it fifty thirty twenty.

那这20%是什么呢？

And so what's that 20?

就是另类投资和不同形式的分散投资，加进投资组合里。

It's alternatives and different forms of diversification to add into the portfolio mix.

好的。

Alright.

我们再看美国正在发生的债券抛售，我们讨论起来好像世界末日一样。

So we look also at the bond sell off that's taking place in The US, and we talk about it like it's the end of the world.

债券市场是不是在恐慌？

Is the bond market freaking out?

但其实没有。

But it's not.

我的意思是，因为这是全球性的现象。

I mean, because this is a global phenomenon.

你在日本也能看到这种情况。

You see this in Japan.

西欧也是这样。

You see this in Western Europe.

当感觉每个发达国家都有同样的问题时，我们还有必要那么关注美国财政问题推高债券收益率吗？

How much should we focus on The US's fiscal problems driving bond yields higher when it feels like every developed country has the same problem?

我觉得不用太纠结于财政问题。

I would say not overly focused on the fiscal issue.

财政问题确实存在。

The fiscal issue is is real.

利息支出更高了。

Interest payments are higher.

未偿债务也更多了，但这是更大背景的一部分。

Debt outstanding is higher, but it's part of a broader story.

有个简单的理解方式，很高兴你提到全球视角。

A simple way to think about that, and I'm glad you brought up the global perspective.

从全球来看，今年我们看到名义GDP预测上调了。

Globally, what we've seen is an increase this year in nominal GDP forecast.

我的朋友、同事兼导师汤姆·帕克指出了这一点，我们很快会写相关文章。

My friend, colleague, and mentor, Tom Parker, points this out, and we'll be writing about this shortly.

如果你看全球平均的国内生产总值，名义GDP。

If you look at global average and and GDP, nominal GDP.

那这意味着什么呢？

So what does that mean?

就是说，把实际经济活动增长率加上通货膨胀率。

It means take the real weight rate of activity and add the rate of inflation.

这基本上就是按当前价格水平计算的经济增长。

That's basically like current price level of economic growth.

今年全球平均变化是多少？

What were the changes this year globally on average?

大约上升了50个基点，也就是半个百分点。

An increase in about of about 50 basis points, half a percentage

点

point

相对于年初的预测。

relative to forecast at the beginning of the year.

这几乎和全球债券的平均涨幅完全一致。

That matches almost exactly the average global bond increase.

所以全球债券利率，它们跟随名义经济活动。

So global bond rates, they track nominal activity.

所以这不是债券市场在恐慌。

So this isn't the bond market freaking out.

这是债券市场在认识到，嘿。

This is the bond market recognizing that, hey.

经济增长总体上更高了。

Growth is higher in general terms.

但是大量不专业的人会说，好吧。

But a huge body of people who aren't sophisticated go, okay.

这是强劲的。

It's a roaring.

这是繁荣。

It's a boom.

名义GDP上升了。

Nominal GDP is up.

杰夫，你是不是认为，对于普通有退休计划的人来说，派对和酒碗会结束？

Do you just presume, Jeff, that for the average guy out there with a retirement plan, the party the punch bowl ends.

派对结束，名义GDP下降，我们的个人财务就会受损？

The party ends, and nominal GDP comes out down, and we are harmed in our personal finance?

好吧。

Well okay.

在冲击情景下，名义GDP下降，是因为通胀下降。

So in a in a shock scenario where nominal GDP comes down, it's coming down because there's disinflation.

下降是因为实际增长放缓。

Coming down because real growth is going down.

那就是衰退情景。

That's a recession scenario.

好的。

Okay.

但抛开那个不谈。

But away from that.

抛开那个，如果降到更低的水平，那要看是实际增长下降还是通胀下降。

Away from that, if it comes down to a lower level, depends on whether that's real or inflation.

目前，希望是

Right now, the hope

你赌这个吗？

bet on that?

会先从通胀开始。

It it'll start with inflation.

这是预期，对吧。

That's the expectation if Right.

而且当我们停止地缘政治因素通过油价传导到通胀时。

And when we stop the geopolitical transference into inflation from oil prices.

如果我们能度过那个阶段，就能看到通胀回落。

If we can get through that, we can see inflation come back down.

从1932年3月3日到现在，通胀率是2.5%到2.6%。

Two and a half, 2.6% from 03/03/1932.

那会拉低名义GDP，也有助于缓解我们目前看到的情况。

That will bring nominal GDP down, and that will help to take the edge off of what we've seen.

你太年轻了。

You're too young.

你太年轻了。

You're too young.

我还记得关于精算假设的那场激烈辩论。

I remember the raging debate over actuarial assumption.

我在彭博社的第一个问题是问Rith Wagner的，对。

My first question of Bloomberg was to Rith Wagner Mhmm.

在通用汽车，关于他们养老金义务的变动。

At General Motors about the shift in their pension obligations.

杰弗里·罗森伯格，我们是不是已经偏离得太远了，以至于不得不把所谓的精算假设调整到更高的水平，而这会打乱我们的退休计划？

Are we so out of whack, Jeffrey Rosenberg, that we're gonna have to change our so called actuarial assumption to a higher regime, and that upsets our retirement.

这会打乱我们的财富管理。

It upsets our wealth management.

不会。

No.

我的意思是，这些调整其实已经在实时发生了。

I mean, we those adjustments are happening in real time.

随着利率上升，它们就会发生，这就是资产与负债的匹配。

They happen as the rates go higher, and it's asset liability matching.

所以现在有两件事在同时发生。

So two things are happening.

第一，当利率上升时，负债实际上会下降，因为你用更高的利率来折现未来的支付。

One, the liability actually goes down when that happens because you're discounting those future payments by a higher interest rate.

第二，在更高的利率环境下，你更有能力去对冲，也就是免疫那种负债。

And two, you're more able to defees that is kind of immunize that liability at a higher interest rate environment.

养老金方面的问题不在于5%的利率。

The problem on the pension side isn't the 5% interest rates.

问题在于0%的利率。

The problem was the 0% interest rate.

当我们看养老金赤字时，那才是问题所在，因为负债被推高了，而且你也没有能帮你抵消负债的收益型固定收益工具。

That was the problem when we were looking at pension deficits because you were blowing out the liability and you didn't have income oriented fixed income instruments that could help you to offset that liability.

所以从资产负债匹配的角度来看，这其实是一个好得多的环境。

So it's actually a much better environment from that asset liability.

其他人也这么说。

Says and others.

约翰在Bring Capital写的也是同样的观点。

John writing at Bring Capital is the same thing.

我们应该庆幸，我们的财富管理又回到了正常的收益率水平。

We should celebrate that we're back to a normal yield within our wealth

计划。

plan.

因为金融危机之后，这种情况太不正常了，持续了太久，但人们只看短期，而且只根据自己知道的事情来判断。

Because post GFC, it was so abnormal for so long, but people think in the short term, and people think based on what they know.

我们知道这届白宫不喜欢更高的借贷成本。

We know that this White House does not like higher borrowing costs.

财政部长斯科特·贝森已经尝试做了很多事情。

Scott Besson, the treasury secretary, has tried to do a number of things.

他手里还有什么牌可以打？

What's left at his disposal?

我的意思是，如果他以某种方式干预，政府干预真的能压低债券收益率吗？

I mean, if he were to intervene in some way, do does government intervention work to lower bond yields?

除非基本面真正改变，否则不行。

Not without a real change in the fundamentals.

有些小动作可以做。

You can do some things.

也有一些更大的举措，但那需要美联储的资产负债表配合。

There are some bigger things that can be done, but it requires the Federal Reserve's balance sheet.

我们已经看到了这一点。

We've we've seen that.

我们已经看到了量化宽松的影响，而且你可以实施非常强有力的政策。

We've seen the impact of quantitative easing, and you can implement very powerful policies.

我们过去也见过这样的政策，政府决定它想要某种利率。

We've seen those policies happen in our past where the government decides it wants a certain kind of interest rate.

那是金融压抑的时代。

That was the financial repression era.

没有人真的期待那种事情，但你问的是，能做什么？

No one is really expecting that kind of thing, but you ask the question, what could be done?

但这不一定意味着你能解决根本问题，即你有多少债务赤字。

But that doesn't necessarily mean you can solve the ultimate problem of how much debt deficits that you have.

长期来看，你可以通过提高名义GDP相对于你的借贷利率来实现这一点，对。

How you can do that over the long run is by raising nominal GDP relative to your borrowing rate Mhmm.

以及相对于你借贷利率的变化，也就是你的赤字。

And relative to your change in your rate of borrowing, which is your deficits.

这些需要真正的财政改革，而我们在政治上还没看到有能力去实施。

Those take real fiscal changes that we haven't really seen the political ability to to implement.

所以我们得把预期考虑进去，就是债务和赤字会长期处于更高水平，这会推高期限溢价和融资成本。

And so we're gonna have to price the anticipation that there's gonna be a permanently higher level of debt and deficits that's gonna increase the term premium and the cost of financing.

我从中得出的结论是，买三年期定期存单。

My takeaway from this is buy the three year CD.

买五年期国债。

Buy the five year note.

把你的五零七拿到手。

Get your five zero seven.

这曾经是标准答案。

It used to be the old answer.

杰弗里·罗森伯格。

Jeffrey Rosenberg.

非常感谢。

Thank you so much.

接下来在彭博财经节目中，我们有巴里·里霍尔茨，里霍尔茨财富管理公司的董事长兼首席投资官，来谈谈美国人现在是如何积累财富的。

Jeffrey Rosenberg of Coming up on Bloomberg Money, we've got Barry Ritholtz, chairman and CIO of Ritholtz Wealth Management, talking about how Americans are generating their wealth right now.

这里是彭博财经。

This is Bloomberg Money.

杰弗里，谢谢你。

Jeffrey, thank you.

各位很棒。

Great guys.

非常感谢，那真的很有帮助。

Thanks so That was really helpful.

希望如此。

Hope so.

你正在收听的是彭博财经。

You're listening to Bloomberg Money.

请继续收听，稍后还有更多内容。

Stay with us with more to come after this.

对。

Yes.

那些鱼是活的。

The fish are alive.

有人给我发邮件问，那是不是道具假鱼？

Somebody emailed me and said, was it a prop and fake fish?

不是。

No.

不是。

No.

是真的。

They're real.

是真的。

They're real.

以前那里还有小鲨鱼呢。

There used to be baby sharks in there too.

迈克尔·布隆伯格那个著名的水族馆。

The famous Aquaria of Michael Bloomberg.

到处都是

They're all over

到处都是。

all.

叫Aquaria是因为那是复数形式。

Aquaria because that's plural.

这太让人开心了。

This is a joy.

我需要你集中注意力。

I need you to focus.

有个叫埃德·海曼的人，基本上是他和艾伦·格林斯潘一起开创了市场经济学。

There's a guy named Ed Hyman who basically invented market economics with a guy named Alan Greenspan.

埃德·海曼是Evercore ISI的创始人，是我崇拜的人之一。

Ed Hyman is founder of Evercore ISI, one of my heroes.

早上好，埃德。

Good morning, Ed.

这就是他说的。

And this is what he says.

这是一本独一无二的书，可能是我读过的最好的一本，而我读了很多书。

This is a unique book, maybe the best I've ever read, and I've read a lot.

关于巴里·里霍尔茨，无需多言，他是董事长、首席投资官、企业家，里霍尔茨财富管理公司的创始人。

Nothing else needs to be said about Barry Ritholtz, chairman, CIO, entrepreneur, Ritholtz Wealth Management.

他有很多成就，包括在彭博电台主持《商业大师》节目，但他还有一本精彩的书。

He has a number of properties, including masters in business on Bloomberg Radio, but he has a spectacular book.

我不会跟你啰嗦它为什么这么好。

I'm not gonna bore you with why it's so good.

你只需要知道，它告诉你什么不该做。

All you need to know, it tells you what not to do.

这本书的下一步计划是什么？

What's the next step for the book?

你今年夏天出了一本海滩读物。

You came out with a beach reading this summer.

这本书现在很有分量。

This book has an oomph to it right now.

下一步是什么？

What's the next thing?

我们会做一些有趣的视频，用巧妙的方式展示一些图表和表格，让它们更有趣、更容易理解。

We'll do something fun with video, finding clever ways to illustrate some of the charts and and tables and making them more interesting, more accessible.

我们现在就来看看。

Let's look at it right now.

我想把这个带进来。

I wanna bring this in.

这就是里索尔茨，典型的里索尔茨风格，讲的是如何不投资。

This is Ritholtz, just classic Ritholtz here and how not to invest.

小错误、大失败，以及介于两者之间的一切。

Tiny errors, epic fails, and everything in between.

怎么避免投资者在2026年9月犯的那些可以避免的错误。

How to avoid the avoidable errors investors are making in 2026 in September.

我们现在做错了什么？

What are we doing wrong right now?

我们

What do

需要避免什么？

we need to avoid?

所以我觉得，这真的取决于你是谁，你处在什么位置，你的投资组合是什么样的，以及你身在何处。

So I think people and it really depends on who you are, where you sit, what your portfolio is like, where where you are.

人们都在关注债券市场，从中得出各种有趣的推论。

People are looking at the bond market and drawing all sorts of interesting extrapolations.

有一点恐慌，但不是特别严重。

There's a little bit of panic, not a whole lot.

天哪。

Oh my god.

这到底意味着什么？

What does this mean?

是因为战争吗？

Is this the war?

是因为关税吗？

Is this the tariffs?

是因为通胀吗？

Is this inflation?

到底发生了什么？

What's going on?

这些因素确实存在，但当我观察这个市场，回顾过去五六十年利率的历史，这似乎是在经历了二十五年的零利率政策和量化宽松之后的一种正常化。

Some of that certainly is a factor, but when I look at this market and I look at the history of interest rates going back fifty, sixty years, this seems to be after twenty five years of ZERP and QE and zero interest rate.

看起来我们正在回归常态。

Seems like we're kind of normalizing.

回到八九十年代，人们会觉得7%的房贷利率是很正常的。

You go back to the eighties and nineties, people recognize that a 7% mortgage was fairly typical.

你的进展，杰夫猜的，杰夫·罗森伯格的意思是，当利率为零、房贷利率为3%、借钱免费的时候，我们真的不知道自己有多幸运。

Your progress, Jeff guess, Jeff Rosenberg implied we really didn't know how good we had it when rates were zero, mortgages were 3%, and it was free to borrow.

所以这意味着那个时代要结束了，我们正在从货币刺激转向财政刺激。

And so this means that era is coming to an end, we're shifting from monetary stimulus to fiscal stimulus.

这和书里说的有什么关系，别为此恐慌。

How related to the book, don't panic about this.

认清它的本质，看看你的投资组合，考虑一下你是否需要长期调整你的股票敞口。

Recognize it for what it is, and look at your portfolio and consider, do you need to make a long term shift in your equity exposure?

如果你在寻找免税收益，可以考虑市政债券。

If you're looking for tax free yield, consider muni bonds.

我投资的纽约州市政债券组合，免税收益率是4.5%。

My New York State muni bond portfolio that I'm an investor in, 4.5 tax free yield.

这相当于应税收益率差不多8%。

That's the taxable equivalent of just about 8%.

如果五年前有人告诉我，嘿，我能给你双A评级8%的收益率，你知道，他们会惊掉下巴的。

If I would have told someone five years ago, hey, I could get you double a rated 8% yield, you know, their heads would have exploded.

债券让人等了好久才终于开始有回报了，对吧。

It's been so long before bonds paid you Right.

就坐着等吧。

Sit and wait.

好的。

Okay.

所以，最大化你的投资和储蓄，这当然是每个人都想做的事。

So maximizing your investments, maximizing your savings, that's certainly something everyone wants to do.

但在此之前，你得先有钱才能去投资这些。

But before you can get there, you have to have the money to be able to invest in all of that.

你一直在研究美国人是怎么积累财富的，对吧。

And you've been looking into how Americans generate their wealth, how Americans create their wealth.

答案不是靠在一家公司上班拿工资单。

And the answer is not by working at a company and getting a w two.

那样你可以过得不错，但很难积累大量财富。

You can do well, but you can't generate a lot of wealth.

这本新书，《日常百万富翁》和《无处不在的百万富翁》，讲的是——这其实很像一种确认偏误的练习——讲的是我们真的误解了美国财富的来源。

The the the new book, the Everyday Millionaire, the Everywhere Millionaire talks about, and this is very much all exercise in confirmation bias, talks about how we really misunderstand where wealth comes from in America.

我们以为，而且媒体也疯狂关注科技创始人和CEO。

We think, and the media focuses obsessively on tech founders and CEOs.

但美国普通的有钱人，大概在前4%到5%这个区间，大多数都不在上市公司工作。

But the average wealthy person in America, somewhere around the top four or 5%, most of them don't work for public companies.

他们大多数也不是科技创始人。

Most of them aren't tech founders.

他们往往是普通人，经营着普通的企业，这些企业是他们拥有的，不是靠打工挣来的。

They tend to be ordinary people running regular businesses that they have ownership of, own, don't earn.

比如牙科诊所、暖通空调、汽车经销商，这些你日常生活中随处可见的东西，你可能没意识到，它们让这些人进入了前4%，也就是大约2500万美元的净资产，或者前10%，也就是大约500万美元。

And things like dental practices, HVAC, auto dealers, things that you see in your everyday life that you encounter that you probably don't realize are putting these folks in the top 4%, which is about $25,000,000 net worth or somewhere around the top 10%, which is about $5,000,000

流动资产

Liquid net

净值。

worth.

我可以和Barry Ritholtz一起做一期Bloomberg Money Audible。

I can do a Bloomberg Money Audible with Barry Ritholtz.

当尼克斯队表现糟糕的时候，他是他们唯一的忠实球迷。

When the Knicks were in the tank, he was their only loyal fan.

我觉得还有一个人，叫Spike Lee。

I think there's also names someone named Spike Lee too.

Spike Lee和Barry Ritholtz都是。

All Spike Lee and Barry Ritholtz is as well.

我看NBA的卫冕，我想到了Jalen和他的小生意。

I look at a repeat in the NBA, and I'm thinking of Jalen with his small business.

Jalen Brunson正在打造他的运动员品牌等等这些。

Jalen Brunson is building out all of this f you know, the athlete thing and and all that.

卫冕有多难？

How hard is it to repeat?

我的意思是，他们背上有靶子。

I mean, they have a target on their back.

尤其是在现代，关键球员的转会似乎比过去更频繁了。

Especially in the modern era where it seems that key players move around a little more frequently than they did back in the day.

这是第一点。

That's number one.

而且，赢了之后，每个人都会说，好吧。

Plus, after you win, everybody says, okay.

我们要怎么做才能超越去年的冠军？

What do we have to do to get past last year's championship?

看看金州勇士队巅峰时期，其他球队都做了哪些调整。

Look at how all the moves that were made when Golden State Warriors were on their tear.

湖人队也一样。

The same with with the Lakers.

每个人都会重新调整阵容。

Everybody kinda rejiggers in

开幕之夜你会去吗？

Are you gonna be there opening night?

你会去吗？我可能不会去。

Are you gonna be in the I'm not gonna be

开幕之夜我不会去，但我会坐在离迈克八个座位远的地方。

there opening night, but I will be there about eight seats away from Mike

但说真的，别这样。

On the But come on.

八个座位，在长边。

Eight seats long side.

我在短边。

I'm on the short side.

好吧，那行。

Well, okay.

没问题。

That's fine.

你知道吗，当尼克撞到他的时候，你都没叫一声“布隆伯格先生”。

You know, you didn't you didn't say mister Bloomberg when the Nick crashed into him.

你当时在哪？

Where were you?

我在家看的。

I was watching at home.

好的。

Okay.

我当时就想，哦，他明天肯定会有感觉的。

I'm like, oh, he's gonna feel that tomorrow.

那是

That's

各位，我能先暂停一下吗？

Can I can I just I wanna pause here, folks?

四十年来，关于彭博财富的书有422本。

There's been 422 Bloomberg Money wealth books over forty years.

有一种叫第一类构造和第二类构造的东西。

There's a thing called a type one construct and a type two.

周五下午你只需要知道一件事：Barry Ritholtz 写的那本财富管理书，是第二类结构里最好的。

All you need to know on a Friday afternoon is Barry Ritholtz has the single best type two construct wealth management book that exists.

不把“不”这个字想明白，你根本做不到这一点。

You can't do this unless you think about the word not.

投资中该避开什么，不该做什么。

What to avoid, what not to do in investment.

这本书是个宝贝。

It's a jewel.

把它扔给你那些不听话的孩子，告诉他们：闭嘴，读这本书。

Throw it at your bratty kids and say, shut up and read it.

Barry Ritholtz。

Barry Ritholtz.

我们都在期待电影版。

We look for the movies.

让迪卡普里奥来演 Ritholtz。

DiCaprio playing Ritholtz.

我觉得不太可能。

I don't think so.

巴里·里索兹，非常感谢你。

Barry Ritholtz, thank you so much.

今天里索兹财富管理公司在这里。

Ritholtz Wealth Management here today.

接下来还有更多精彩内容。

We've got much more coming up.

我觉得有个特别的部分，是不是泰勒要出现？

A really special side I think is it is is Taylor it gonna appear?

是泰勒吗？

Is it Tay Tay?

我觉得今天好像是泰勒日。

I think it's like it's a, like, a Taylor day, I think.

很有可能。

That may very well be.

接下来，克里斯蒂娜·拉菲尼会加入我们。

Well, Christina Raffini is gonna join us next.

我们会稍微聊一聊这个话题。

We're gonna talk a little bit about it.

我们会展望这个周末，因为斯威夫特小姐有新歌和新音乐视频，这是她结婚后的第一次。

We're gonna look ahead to this weekend because there is some new music and new new music videos from miss Swift, her first since getting married.

这里是彭博财经。

This is Bloomberg Money.

你正在收听彭博财经。

You're listening to Bloomberg Money.

请继续收听，之后还有更多内容。

Stay with us with more to come after this.

彭博财经，汤姆·基恩，斯嘉丽·傅，今天真是多事的一天。

Bloomberg Money, Tom Keene, Scarlet Fu, an eventful day.

感谢你陪伴我们，我们刚才聊了一些国际关系的话题。

Thank you for being with us as we did some international relations there.