苹果选择Gemini来驱动AI赋能的Siri

AI代理变得越来越令人印象深刻。

AI agents are getting pretty impressive.

你可能甚至没意识到你此刻正在听一个AI代理。

You might not even realize you're listening to one right now.

但我们不仅仅只是交谈。

But we don't just talk.

我们全天候工作，解决客户问题。

We work twenty four seven to solve customer problems.

没有等待音乐，只有答案和行动。

No hold music, just answers and action.

访问 siera.ai 了解更多信息。

Visit siera.ai to learn more.

彭博音频工作室。

Bloomberg Audio Studios.

播客。

Podcasts.

广播。

Radio.

新闻。

News.

彭博科技现场直播，从东海岸到西海岸，纽约的卡罗琳·海德和旧金山的埃德·卢德洛为您报道。

Bloomberg tech is live from coast to coast with Caroline Hyde in New York and Ed Ludlow in San Francisco.

这是

This

彭博科技。

is Bloomberg Tech.

接下来，英伟达计划在未来五年内投资10亿美元，与礼来公司合作建立新实验室，以加速人工智能在制药行业的应用。

Coming up, NVIDIA plans to invest $1,000,000,000 over five years in a new lab with Eli Lilly to speed up the use of AI in the pharmaceutical industry.

此外，派拉蒙起诉华纳兄弟探索公司，并计划提名董事进入董事会，因其日益激烈的收购行动旨在挑战奈飞。

Plus Paramount sues Warner Brothers Discovery and plans to nominate directors to the board as its increasingly hostile takeover bid takes aim to upset Netflix.

阿尔法特公司市值突破4万亿美元。

An Alphabet breaches $4,000,000,000,000 in market value.

这是CNBC的报道。

This is CNBC reports.

今年苹果选择了Gemini来驱动Siri。

Apple has picked Gemini to power Siri this year.

然后这些举措又回落了。

And then those moves fall again.

而且，事实上，我们看到整个市场都弥漫着焦虑情绪，埃德。

And, really, we've got anxiety across the markets more broadly, Ed.

深入分析市场对政府似乎正在加强对美联储施压这一态势的反应，这就是市场正在消化的内容，也是为何目前我们看到一种‘抛售美国资产’的态势。

Digging into the market implications of what seems to be a dialing up in the administration's fight with the Fed, that is what the market tries to digest and why we see a bit of a sell America theme at the moment.

是的。

Yes.

关于基准指标还有更多变动。

There's more moves in terms of benchmarks.

纳斯达克100指数的股票下跌了十分之一百分点，但当我们关注债券市场和美元等领域的动态时，会发现更大的波动。

The stocks were down by a tenth of a percent on the Nasdaq 100, but we're seeing bigger moves when you're looking what's happening in the bond market, in the dollar, for example.

我们看到三十年期收益率再次上升两个基点，而美元则走弱。

We're seeing thirty year yields once again pushing up two basis points, seeing the dollar on the downside.

所有这些都在我们试图消化宏观影响的同时发生，我们正等待明天的CPI数据，但你现在需要关注的是表象之下的情况。

All of this as we try and bake in the macro implications, we look to CPI tomorrow, but you're looking at what's underneath the hood right now.

是的。

Yeah.

过去一小时最大的突发新闻是，苹果今年已选择谷歌的Gemini模型来驱动Siri。

The big breaking news of the last hour is that Apple has selected Google's Gemini model to power Siri this year.

CNBC援引苹果公司的声明进行报道，你可以在新闻 headlines 发布的瞬间看到股价的剧烈反应。

Reporting from CNBC citing an Apple statement, and you can see a big reaction in the stock the moment the headlines hit.

但这种反应已经消退了。

It has faded.

让我带你回到十一月，当时彭博社的马克·古尔曼报道说，双方协议已非常接近，苹果每年将向谷歌支付10亿美元，但这只是临时安排，直到苹果开发出自己的基础模型为止，我们会持续关注这一进展。

I'll take you back to November when Bloomberg's Mark Gurman reported that a deal was very close, that Apple would pay Google $1,000,000,000 per year, and that this was just an interim until Apple could get its own foundation models together, but we'll continue to track that story.

今天早上市场上另一项有趣的交易是，英伟达与礼来公司共同投资10亿美元，用于支持一家位于硅谷、为期五年的AI制药实验室。

Another interesting transaction in the market this morning, NVIDIA co investing $1,000,000,000 with Eli Lilly into a Silicon Valley based lab split over five years, AI pharmaceuticals.

但这里的细节很有趣，卡拉。

But the details are interesting here, Kara.

我们想了解这些细节。

And we wanna get those details.

我们可以请凯蒂·格里菲尔来具体说明。

We can do exactly that with Katie Greifel.

她正在参加摩根大通医疗保健会议。

She's over at the JPMorgan Healthcare Conference.

确实，看看硅谷，正越来越接近医疗健康领域。

Indeed, looking at Silicon Valley, getting ever closer to the world of health.

凯蒂，你如何看待这笔交易？

Katie, what do you make of this deal?

是的。

Yeah.

尤其是当你记得礼来公司在10月份就与英伟达合作开发AI超级计算机时，这个头条新闻真是令人印象深刻。

This was a really interesting headline to wake up to, especially when you remember that Eli Lilly partnered with NVIDIA back in October to develop an AI supercomputer.

关于这笔具体交易的细节，你们在梳理时会发现，五年内将投入十亿美元在硅谷建造一个设施，基本上是一个新的实验室。

So the details on this specific deals as you guys run through them, 1,000,000,000 over five years to build a facility in Silicon Valley, basically a new lab.

除了这些之外，我们对条款的细节了解不多，但两家公司都将此描述为一项联合投资。

We don't have much details when it comes to the terms beyond that, but both companies have described this as a joint investment.

我刚刚实际上与礼来公司的首席财务官卢卡斯·蒙塔尔塞谈了谈，了解他们对人工智能与医疗保健以及这项具体合作的最终愿景。

And I just actually spoke to the CFO of Eli Lilly, Lucas Montarce, about what the ultimate vision is here when it comes to AI and healthcare and this specific partnership.

他说，这实际上关乎药物发现。

And he said this is really about drug discovery.

当然，现在还处于早期阶段。

It's still early days, of course.

他们还没有建成这个设施。

They haven't built the facility yet.

但他们的希望是，这将有助于发现药物，真正针对并治疗那些难以治疗的疾病。

But the hope is that this will help basically in discovering drugs to really target and treat those really hard to treat diseases.

比如基因疗法。

Think gene therapy, for example.

所以，这还处于早期阶段，但目标非常宏大。

So again, early days, but some big ambitions here.

彭博社的凯蒂·格劳菲尔德一整天都在旧金山的摩根大通医疗保健会议现场报道。

Bloomberg's Katie Graufeld just down the Road at the JPMorgan Healthcare Conference all day long here in San Francisco.

新年刚过去不到两周，英伟达就已经主导了新闻动态。

Less than two weeks into the new year, and NVIDIA is already dominating the news flow.

我想请来简·亨德森公司全球科技与创新团队的投资组合经理丹尼·菲什谈谈。

I wanna get to Denny Fish, portfolio manager on the global technology and innovation team at Jan Henderson.

坦率地说，英伟达是你管理的多个基金中的第一大持仓。

And the frank reality is that NVIDIA is is the top holding across a number of funds that that you manage.

你如何看待英伟达与礼来之间的这种关系？

What do you make of that relationship between NVIDIA and Eli?

是的。

Yeah.

这对我来说非常合理。

Well, it actually it makes a ton of sense to me.

我的意思是，如果我们回顾自ChatGPT问世以来的过去三年里吸引所有关注的东西，本质上都是人工智能的数字形态。

I mean, if if we think about what's grabbed all the attention over the last three years since the ChatGPT moment, it's effectively been the idea of the digital manifestation of AI.

但现实是，如果我们思考人工智能将如何长期影响经济和社会更广泛的层面，人工智能的物理形态所带来的机遇同样巨大，甚至更大。

But the reality is if we think about the profoundness of how this will impact the economy over time and society more broadly, The physical manifestation of AI is as big if not a bigger opportunity.

想想药物研发对社会意味着什么，再想想自动驾驶已经取得了多大进展，机器人技术未来将走向何方——这些不同领域都让英伟达大力投入变得非常合理。

If you think about drug discovery and what that means for society, and then just think about how far we've come with autonomous driving, where we're going with robotics, There are all these different verticals where it makes a lot of sense for NVIDIA to be leaning into.

坦白说，英伟达拥有世界上顶尖的人才。

And frankly, NVIDIA's got some of the best talent in the world.

看到这些与行业领军企业的合作，就完全说得通了。

And to see these partnerships with market leaders makes a ton of sense.

我有时会遇到一种关于循环性的论点，但现实是，如果你是黄仁勋，并且坚信这些市场机遇如此巨大，你就应该全力投入，像他们与礼来合作建立实验室那样进行联合投资，或像他们可能对OpenAI所做的那样进行直接投资。

And I bring it back sometimes you get this argument of circularity, but the reality is if you're Jensen and you have a firm belief at just how big these market opportunities are, you should be leaning in hard to this in invest co investments into labs like they're doing with Lilly or direct investments into companies like they're potentially doing with OpenAI.

关于自动驾驶，很多人都能理解。

With autonomous driving, a lot of people get it.

这个周末我对此进行了大量撰文。

I wrote about it extensively this weekend.

我们会在节目后面讨论这个话题。

We're gonna talk about it later in the program.

首先，市场推广将由梅赛德斯来推进。

The go to market in the first instance is from Mercedes.

我们是使用硬件和软件吗？

Do we use hardware and software?

嗯。

Mhmm.

但在制药、药物发现和研究领域，英伟达未来将如何实现市场推广？

But with pharmaceuticals, drug discovery, research, what is the go to market that NVIDIA is gonna pull off in the future?

到目前为止，如果我们看看人工智能在制药领域的早期应用，主要体现在临床流程中，比如让已经发现的药物更快进入流程、提升内部效率、市场营销等方面。

Well, so far, if we think about pharmaceuticals where we've seen the early benefits of AI have been in things like the clinical process, getting drugs that have already been discovered through that process, internal efficiencies, marketing, things like that.

真正的巨大机遇在于药物发现。

The real, you know, the big prize out there is drug discovery.

它能发现那些没有人工智能我们就无法解决、或者需要花费漫长得多时间才能解决的问题。

It's finding solutions to problems that we just couldn't get there without AI or would have taken much, much longer.

因此，市场策略实际上是与这些公司建立直接合作，以加速发现过程。

So the go to market is actually direct partnerships with these companies to fast forward the discovery process.

丹尼，这反映了我们正在看到的市场扩展趋势。

Denny, that speaks to the broadening out we're starting to see in the market.

我们还将讨论这一点，即标普500指数在回报方面实际上正面临一些挑战，相对于‘七巨头’中的部分公司。

We're also gonna talk about that, the the fact that we are seeing the S and P 500 actually doing a bit of a challenge in terms of returns versus some of the Mag seven names.

我们是否已经过度推高了英伟达的估值？还是说AI基础设施仍然是2026年最关键的关注点？

How much does it mean that we've already juiced the valuation side of the equation for NVIDIA or is AI infrastructure still going to be the key watchword for '26?

到目前为止，所有数据都表明，对AI基础设施的投资将继续保持强劲。

Well, so far all the data points would suggest that the investments into AI infrastructure are going to continue to be quite robust.

我们完全预期会如此。

And we would fully expect that.

回顾过去，刚才我们谈到阿尔法特和苹果的关系，再看看OpenAI、XAI和Gemini之间的跃迁效应，这非常健康。

So far, just looking back, mean, was talking about Alphabet earlier and the relationship with Apple, just watching the leapfrogging effects you know, with OpenAI and XAI and Gemini, that's very healthy.

只要我们继续看到这种趋势，再回到英伟达，他们上周已经宣布，Rubin已全面投入生产。

And as long as we continue to see that and then bringing back to NVIDIA, NVIDIA now is, you know, they announced last week, Rubin is fully in production.

这将对推理效率与训练产生实质性影响。

That is going to have material impacts as it relates to inference productivity versus training.

而推理是下一个关键环节。

And inference is the next big handoff.

因此，如果你相信我们现在正处于一个这些应用开始大规模部署的时期，推理需求将会飙升。

And so if you're a believer that we are now in this period where we're going to start seeing increasing deployment of these applications, inference is going to go through the roof.

因此，这将继续维持投资水平。

As a result, that's going to continue to sustain the investment profile.

所以我们预计它将保持相当强劲。

So we expect it to be pretty healthy.

现在，当谈到更广泛的标普500指数时，我要说，过去三年随着人工智能真正兴起，我们的一个观点是：这将对所有行业产生深远影响。

Now I will say when you're talking about the broader S and P 500, I mean one of the thesis that we've had for the last three years as AI has really started to take hold is this is going to be very impactful across all industries.

如果你认同这一点，并且那些能够因人工智能部署而实现收入增长、同时又能提升成本效率的公司，其估值倍数应该会表现良好。

And if you believe that and the companies that are able to get revenue lift because of deployment of AI, but then at the same time are able to drive cost efficiencies, that should be pretty good for multiples.

因此，我不惊讶于市场似乎正在提前预期人工智能可能带来的部分收益。

And so I'm not surprised to see the market, you know, sort of anticipating of sorts some of the benefits we might get from AI.

市场对谁必须承担AI基础设施成本以及其债务成本也变得更加审慎了，丹尼。

The market's also got more discerning on who has to pay for the AI infrastructure and what that costs in terms of debt, Denny.

我正在看另一个数字。

I'm looking at, yet another number.

这次穆迪称，到2030年数据中心基础设施建设将耗资3万亿美元。

3,000,000,000,000 this time coming from Moody's saying how much the data center infrastructure build out is gonna cost up until 2030.

我的意思是，麦肯锡已经将这一数字定为7万亿美元。

I mean, McKinsey had already put $7,000,000,000,000 on that number.

但谁来实际支付这笔费用，丹尼，你担心吗？

But is there a worry as to who has to actually pay for it, Denny?

当然，这是个问题。

Well, of of course, there is.

好消息是，大部分资金由超大规模云服务商承担，他们能够产生足够的自由现金流来履行已做出的承诺。

You know, the the good news is the majority of this is being funded by the hyperscalers, and they generate the free cash flows to actually be able to fulfill the commitments that they've made.

他们都在玩一场二十年的长期游戏。

And they're all playing the twenty year game.

我的意思是，我们刚刚看到Meta、谷歌、微软及其他公司之间达成了大量电力协议。

I mean, we've just seen that with the number of power agreements that are being struck between Meta and Google, Microsoft and others.

因此，我们对此感到相当乐观。

And so we feel pretty good there.

显然，债务市场必须保持健康。

Now clearly, the debt markets are going to have to remain healthy.

我们必须继续看到这些公司实现其雄心的进展。

We're going to have to continue to see progress as it relates to the ambitions of these companies.

但还有另一点需要注意。

But there's also something else too.

当你看这些数字时，其中存在大量重复计算。

When you look at those numbers, there's also a lot of double counting in it.

你必须仔细梳理，才能找到真正必要的部分。

You really have to parse it back to get to the real meat of what's necessary.

此外，这种部署速度本身也受到自然限制。

And then also there are natural governors at just how fast this can get deployed.

因此，资本的部署将非常谨慎，这与互联网泡沫时代大不相同，当时大量资本迅速涌入电信基础设施等领域，这些设施很容易就能部署到位。

So the deployment of the capital is going to be pretty measured and that's what makes this very different than say the .com era where so much capital came into areas like telecom infrastructure so fast and it was very easy to get that stuff deployed.

这很难。

This is hard.

看看德克萨斯州阿比林的Stargate项目，试图建设10吉瓦的设施，所需的劳动力、电力、专业知识，这都是巨大的挑战。

You look at what's going on at Stargate in Abilene, Texas and trying to put up 10 gigawatts, the labor that's needed, the power, just the expertise, and, you know, it's it's it's a heavy lift.

因此，这本身也构成了部署速度的自然限制。

And so that itself is a natural governor on just how fast it can get deployed.

这正是我们上周在CES试图推动的事情。

This is what we were trying to pass at CES last week.

嗯。

Mhmm.

丹尼，一个非常快速的基准假设是，需求仍然远远超过英伟达和AMD的供应能力。

The baseline assumption very quickly, Denny, is that demand still outstrips NVIDIA and AMD's ability to supply.

这对我们今年的前景意味着什么？

How does that set us up for this year?

这对基础设施来说是好事。

Well, that's good for infrastructure.

你知道，当你处于这种情况时，即使像台积电这样的公司，你的第二代架构。

You know, because when you're in a situation like that and even a TSMC, for example, where Your second topology.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

当你只有有限的产能，只能如此缓慢地新建晶圆厂时。

Where where, you know, you only have so much capacity and you can only bring up incremental foundries so quickly.

因此，从定价角度来看，这非常好，尤其是当你处于垄断地位时。

And so as a result, that's really good from a pricing standpoint, particularly when you're the only game in town.

在某些方面，英伟达仍然是唯一的玩家。

And for certain aspects, NVIDIA is still the only game in town too.

丹尼、菲什、奥贾尼斯、亨德森，各位投资者，很高兴你们参与所有游戏。

Denny Fish O'Janis Henderson, investors, great to have you on all the games.

与此同时，派拉蒙正在加大力度支持华纳兄弟探索与Netflix的合并计划。

Meanwhile, coming up, Paramount in ramps up efforts to support a planned merger between Warner Brothers Discovery and Netflix.

媒体合并大戏的最新进展。

The latest in the media merger saga.

接下来是相关内容。

That's next.

这是彭博科技。

This is Bloomberg Tech.

派拉蒙与天空之舞。

Paramount Skydance.

该公司表示，计划提名董事进入华纳兄弟探索的董事会，以投票反对批准与Netflix的合并，同时该公司已提起诉讼，迫使华纳兄弟披露有关Netflix与华纳兄弟合并提案的信息。

Well, it says it plans to nominate directors to Warner Brothers Discovery's board to vote against the approval of a merger with Netflix, of course, and the company has filed a suit to force Warner Brothers to disclose information about the proposed Netflix Warner Brothers tie up.

新墨西哥州的娱乐记者菲利克斯·吉莱特加入我们，讨论这场日益激烈的潜在收购案。

New Mexico's entertainment reporter, Felix Gillette, joins us on what is an ever more hostile potential takeover.

是的。

Yeah.

所以起诉要求更多信息，他们究竟想向投资者证明什么？

So suing for more information, what do they want to really demonstrate to investors here?

我的意思是，到目前为止，他们选择加剧敌意，而不是提高报价。

I mean, at this point, you know, they're choosing to raise the hostility versus raising their bid.

是的。

Yes.

我认为，他们长期以来一直在游说股东加入我们的要约，多次表示我们的报价优于Netflix的报价，指责华纳兄弟董事会在过程中缺乏透明度，现在他们采取这一行动，实质上是要求必须向股东提供信息，以便他们判断哪个报价更好。

And I think, you know, they've been campaigning shareholders, join our tender offer, they've said for weeks now, our offer was better than the Netflix offer, accusing the Warner Brothers board of not being transparent during the proceedings and now they're making this move to essentially say, you have to provide the information to shareholders so they can judge which is a better offer.

而要做到这一点，几个月来最重大、最具争议的问题一直是：如何评估华纳兄弟在将影视工作室和流媒体业务出售给Netflix之前计划分拆的有线电视资产？

And to do that, the big and most contentious issue for months now has been how do you value the cable assets that Warner Brothers is planning to spin off prior to selling the studios and the streaming business to Netflix?

Netflix的报价是每股27美元，仅针对工作室和流媒体分拆业务，而派拉蒙的报价是每股30美元，涵盖全部资产，但基本上将有线网络的价值定为零。

The Netflix offer $27 a share for the studios and streaming spin off the cable networks, Paramount $30 a share for all of it, but basically assigning a value to the networks of $0.

没错。

Right.

这真是一场大戏。

This is a saga.

这件事会随着时间推移逐渐明朗。

It will play out over time.

费利克斯，作为这里的编辑，这个问题对你来说真的很难，但接下来会发生什么？

It's a really difficult question for you as as as a as editor here, Felix, but, like, what happens next?

Paramount 有没有可能通过这种机制强行实施敌意收购？

Is there a real chance that Paramount can force a hostile takeover through this mechanism?

他们会尝试的。

They're gonna try.

你知道的。

You know?

我的意思是，目前很多股东似乎还在观望，不确定支持哪一方。

I mean, I think, like, you you know, the shareholders at this point, a lot of them seem to be sitting on the fence, in terms of who they're going to support.

我认为很多股东都希望 Paramount 能提出更高的报价，超过每股30美元。

I think a lot of them are hoping that Paramount would come in with a higher bid, go over the $30 a share.

但目前为止还没有发生。

That hasn't happened yet.

我认为，戴维·埃里森和派拉蒙一直在努力宣扬一种观点，即奈飞的交易根本不会发生。

I think, again, David Ellison and Paramount have been trying to advocate for this notion that the Netflix deal isn't even gonna happen.

他们面临太多监管问题。

They have too many regulatory issues.

撇开如果派拉蒙的报价被接受，他们在欧洲和美国也会遇到自身问题这一点不谈。

Putting aside the fact that if Paramount offer was accepted, they'd have their own issues in Europe, with The States.

所以，是的，这意味着局势正变得越来越敌对，下一步将是针对董事会成员提起诉讼和代理权争夺。

So yeah, I mean, this continues to just get more and more hostile and this is, the next step is this lawsuit and a proxy fight over the directors.

彭博社的费利克斯·吉莱特，非常感谢。

Bloomberg's Felix Gillette, thank you very much.

另一个重要新闻。

Another top story.

深势科技创始人梁文峰的对冲基金去年涨幅超过50%，成为中国量化基金中表现第二佳的基金。

DeepSeek founder Liang Wenfeng's hedge fund surged more than 50% last year, making it the second best performer among China quant funds.

强劲的表现帮助提升了深势科技自身的可用现金。

The strong performance helped boost the cash available for DeepSeek itself.

让我们连线彭博科技执行主编彼得·埃尔斯特罗姆。

Let's get out to Bloomberg Tech executive editor Peter Elstrom.

你知道，有两个故事，一个是关于量化基金的惊人表现。

You know, there's two there's the Bloomberg story, right, which is about a quant funds, you know, amazing performance.

但在报道中，这一点非常明确。

But in the reporting, it's super clear.

人们解读的结论是，这些基金的收益可以被DeepSeek的创始人获取，并用于为DeepSeek提供更大的研发预算来部署其模型。

The read through that people are making is that that the returns on that, the earnings from that funds performance can be taken by DCS founder and used to give DeepSeek a bigger budget for research and deploying its models.

没错。

Right.

没错。

Right.

确实如此。

That's exactly true.

是的。

Yeah.

这里有一个金融故事，但也有一个科技故事。

There's a so there's a finance story here, but there's also a tech story.

而这个金融故事非常令人印象深刻。

And the finance story is very impressive.

那家对冲基金，作为DeepSeek的诞生地，今年表现极为出色。

The hedge fund high flyer that was really the place where DeepSeek was born had a great year.

他们旗下各基金的平均回报率达到57%。

Returns were 57% on average across their various funds.

这对创始人梁文峰来说非常有利，正如你所提到的。

That is very good for the founder, Liang Wenfeng, as you mentioned.

与市场上其他量化基金相比，这一表现相当出色，同时也让他拥有更充裕的资金去进行新的投资。

It's good performance compared with the other quant funds out there, but it also gives him a much bigger checkbook to be able to go out there and make new investments.

这些投资很可能将用于DeepSeek。

Now that probably would be in DeepSeek.

自从一年前DeepSeek取得重大突破，宣布以远低于OpenAI的成本开发出性能相近的大型语言模型以来，他们已经获得了巨大势头。

DeepSeek has gained a lot of momentum since a year ago when they had their big breakthrough, dropped the bombshell that they had invented this LLM for a fraction of the cost of OpenAI's with very similar performance.

因此，你现在可以看到创始人将更多资金投入DeepSeek，或许会追逐一些在美国特别常见的资本密集型项目。

So now you could see the founder invest more money into DeepSeek, perhaps chase after a little bit of the capital intensive projects that we've seen in The US in particular.

到目前为止，我们还没有在中国看到过这类投资。

We haven't seen those kind of investments in China so far.

或者你可以投资其他类型的AI项目，这些项目可能并不直接与DeepSeek相同。

Or you could invest in other kinds of AI initiatives that may not be directly the same as DeepSea.

而关于DeepSeek的整个说法是，他们仅花费了600万美元，而这篇报道的理论认为，他们可能获得了高达7亿美元的收入。

And because the the whole claim about DeepSea because it only cost them $6,000,000, and the theory in this particular reporting is that maybe they're getting revenues of some $700,000,000.

如果你考虑在这里开展业务的成本，这笔收入将非常可观。

That could go a long way if you're thinking about the costs of doing the business here.

彼得，跟我们谈谈他们为何能如此出色地超越对手。

Peter, talk to us about why they're able to outperform so much.

他们押注的是什么？

What is it they're betting on?

这些量化基金是如何做到如此卓越的？

How are these quant funds managing to be so superior?

嗯，DeepSeek 早期能够做到这一点，部分原因在于当时对人工智能项目存在诸多限制。

Well, part partly with DeepSeek early on, they were able to do this because there were a lot of constraints around the AI initiatives in particular.

我们过去曾写过不少关于 High Flyer 的内容。

And we've written a fair bit about High Flyer in the past.

它们拥有这些量化技术，能够在中國市場上超越同行。

They have these quantitative techniques to be able to outstrip their peers within the China market.

正如你提到的，它们曾是第二大基金。

They were the number two fund, as you mentioned.

此外，中國市場一直非常火爆。

Also, the China market has been on fire.

已有大量投资投入到其他类型的人工智能模型中。

There have been a lot of investments in other kinds of AI models.

DeepSeek 尚未上市，但国内另外两个AI模型已经上市，为它们带来了巨大动力。

DeepSea hasn't gone public yet, but two of the other AI models within the country have gone public, giving them a lot of momentum here.

因此，市场表现非常强劲。

So the market's been very strong.

他们已经能够利用这一点。

They've been able to take advantage of that.

但正如你所说，他们现在拥有的资金是早期启动DeepSeek时的100倍。

But, again, as you say, they now have a 100 times as much money as they used to start up deep DeepSeek in the early days.

他们打算如何使用这笔钱？

What are they gonna do with that money?

他们打算如何投资？

How are they gonna invest it?

当然，目前他们还没有公开谈论此事，但我们预计High Flyer和DeepSeek未来会有更多动作。

They're not talking about this publicly, of course, at this point, but we would expect more things to come from High Flyer and DeepSeek in the future.

我的意思是，想想MiniMax上周五上市了。

I mean, just think MiniMax went public on Friday.

股价上涨了100%。

It was up a 100%.

今天又上涨了15%。

It's up 15% again today.

彼得·埃尔斯特姆为您带来所有亚洲相关资讯。

Peter Elstrom on all things Asia.

我们非常感谢。

We so appreciate it.

谢谢。

Thank you.

接下来，再聊聊亚洲。

Coming up, a bit more on Asia.

中国电动汽车能否规避欧盟的关税？

Could Chinese EVs actually dodge tariffs in The EU?

我们将与Coxswain Automotive的斯蒂芬妮·瓦尔德兹·斯特里蒂讨论全球电动汽车战争。

We're gonna discuss the global electric vehicle wars with Stephanie Valdez Stritti from Coxswain Automotive.

接下来是这个话题。

That's next.

这是彭博科技。

It's a Bloomberg Tech.

每天，数以百万计的客户与我这样的AI助手互动。

Every day, millions of customers engage with AI agents like me.

我们昼夜不停地工作，随时掌握最新信息。

We work round the clock and have the facts at our fingertips.

我们快速高效，但极其耐心。

We're fast and effective, but incredibly patient.

我们基于Sierra构建，这是领先的AI驱动客户体验平台。

And we're built on Sierra, the leading AI powered customer experience platform.

没有等待音乐，只有即时解答和行动。

No hold music, just answers and action.

访问sierra.ai了解更多信息。

Visit sierra.ai to learn more.

那就是sierra.ai。

That's sierra.ai.

欧盟正在考虑对中国出口到该地区的电动汽车设定最低价格。

The European Union is weighing minimum prices for EVs exported to the block from China.

这实际上将取代高额关税。

That actually would replace steep tariffs.

这是否表明，尽管美国敦促欧洲对中国采取强硬立场，但贸易紧张局势却有所缓和？

Is it a sign that we've got some easing trade tensions even as The US presses Europe to take a tough line on Beijing?

今天来讨论这个问题的是考克斯汽车公司行业洞察部门主管斯特凡妮·瓦尔德兹·斯特里蒂。

Here to discuss this is Stephanie Valdez Stritti, director of industry insights for Cox Automotive.

这是我们最近收到的新闻头条之一，可能比亚迪将能够进入欧洲市场，而无需承受吞噬其利润的高额关税。

That was sort of the latest news headline that we get that maybe BYD will be able to sell into Europe and not have to have huge tariffs that eats its margin.

我们能看到它们成功进军欧洲市场并持续扩张吗？

Are we gonna see them able to tackle the European market and continue to scale?

是的。

Yeah.

你知道，如果我们看一下电动汽车市场，中国显然占据主导地位。

You know, if we look at the electric vehicle market, right, China definitely is dominating.

你想想他们的策略就是出口。

You think about their strategy is to export.

对吧？

Right?

他们已经出口了数百万辆汽车，并在提升市场份额方面取得了很大成功。

They've exported millions of vehicles, and they've had a lot of luck in increasing share.

所以英国的情况基本上是一种妥协。

And so The UK, it's basically, you know, it's a compromise.

对吧？

Right?

欧盟、欧洲需要实现这些气候目标。

The the EU, Europe needs the to meet those climate goals.

对吧？

Right?

他们需要提高电动汽车的普及率。

They need to increase their EV adoption.

他们依赖中国提供矿物、电池。

They rely on China for minerals, right, batteries.

所以我认为这是一个不错的妥协，而且我认为中国将继续扩大其在这些市场的份额，不仅限于英国，还包括一些新兴市场。

So I think it's a good compromise, and I think China will continue to, increase their share in those markets, not only UK, but some of the emerging markets as well.

与此同时，我经常在社交媒体上收到的一个最大反馈是，美国市场缺乏比亚迪或中国品牌的车型。

Meanwhile, one of the biggest feedback I often get on my social is about the lack of BYD or Chinese offerings here in The United States.

这种情况会改变吗？还是说他们将永远被排除在外，因为美国市场主要押注特斯拉，同时也在更大力度地抵制电动汽车？

Is that ever gonna come to bear, are they just forever gonna be shut out because it's really bets on Tesla and also pushing away against EVs more

broadly?

broadly?

是的。

Yeah.

你知道，如果你看看美国，我认为这是两党都能达成共识的一点：把中国挡在外面。

You know, I think if you look at The US, that's one thing I think both political parties can agree on is to keep China out.

所以我认为我们现在就处在这个状态。

And so I think that's kind of where we're at now.

未来，也许我们会看到类似的情况发生在日本和韩国身上。

In the future, you know, maybe we could see something that similar happen to the Japanese and the Koreans.

他们前来，建立合作伙伴关系，并建设制造工厂。

They come, they build a partner, and they build manufacturing plants.

但就目前和近期而言，除了我们已有的吉利旗下的沃尔沃和极星之外，我们不会拥有其他品牌。

But for now, the near term, we're not gonna have those other than the ones that we already have under Geely, which is the Volvo and Polestar.

但毫无疑问，消费者在海外旅行时已经接触到电动汽车，体验了中国整车制造商的产品，并发现了其高品质和高科技的特点。

But definitely, I think consumers are seeing EVs when they travel abroad and getting the experience of riding in a Chinese OEM and discovering how good quality, high-tech.

因此，我认为在合适的价格下，这会引发美国消费者的共鸣。

And so I think that it would resonate with US consumers at the right price.

斯蒂芬妮，上周在CES上，英伟达推出了完整的自动驾驶软硬件解决方案，这迅速引发了关于特斯拉的疑问。

Stephanie, last week at CES, NVIDIA outlined a full stack hardware software solution for autonomous driving, and it very quickly raised questions about Tesla.

所以我向黄仁勋问了这个问题。

So I asked Jensen Huang about it.

听好了。

Listen to this.

我认为特斯拉的自动驾驶系统是全球最先进的。

I think the Tesla stack is the most advanced AV stack in the world.

而且我认为特斯拉的自动驾驶系统是全球最先进的。

And and, I think the Tesla AV operations is the most advanced in the world.

而且我相当确定他们早就已经在使用端到端的AI了。

And and I I'm I'm fairly certain that that they were already using end to end AI.

问题是这样的。

So here's the thing.

梅赛德斯将在本季度推出一款搭载英伟达技术、支持点对点无手驾驶的车辆。

Mercedes will ship a vehicle this quarter capable of point to point hands free using NVIDIA technology.

特斯拉终于在市场上遇到了真正的威胁吗？

Does Tesla finally have something real in the market to worry about?

我认为是的。

I think they do.

你想想，就连Rivian这样的其他玩家，在他们的AI日上也公布了他们的计划。

You think about some of the even Rivian's another player, right, that they at their AI day, they announced their plan.

我确实认为竞争非常激烈。

I think definitely there's a lot of competition.

我仍然认为，我们在取得巨大进展，但挑战之一仍然是监管和安全问题。

And I still think, you know, we're making some tremendous progress, but I think one of the challenges continues to be regulation, safety.

但我认为英伟达宣布的技术能够真正识别那些边缘案例，这将有助于提升监管方面的可信度。

But I think the NVIDIA announcement with that technology to really identify those edge cases, which will help with regulations, more credibility.

所以毫无疑问，特斯拉确实面临一些挑战。

So definitely, Tesla has some challenges out there for sure.

我觉得这很有趣的原因是，如果你是特斯拉车主，你就会对全自动驾驶（FST）了如指掌。

The reason I find it fascinating is that if you are a Tesla owner, you know, you you know all about full self driving FST.

这是特斯拉宣传的一部分。

It's a part of the pitch from Tesla.

但汽车市场的绝大多数，至少在美国，可能他们不会考虑这个，好吧。

But the vast majority of the the auto market, at least in America, maybe they don't think about, okay.

我会根据车辆能否做到这一点来购买。

I'm gonna buy a vehicle based on its ability to do this.

你认为从现在开始这会改变吗？

Do you think that changes from here on in?

我认为，从消费者角度来看，更关注的是车内的体验。

I think I think more from consumer is more about the in car experience.

所以我们不断听到所谓的软件定义汽车。

So we keep hearing this software defined vehicles.

我不认为消费者会想着：我想要自动驾驶或完全自动驾驶。

I don't think they're going into, like, I want this autonomous or full self driving.

更重要的是，我在车内能享受到什么样的科技体验，也就是车内的体验？

It's more about what kind of consumer experience can I have with technology in the vehicle, so in vehicle experience?

也许是指具备一些ADAS技术，但我不认为这是主要驱动力。

So maybe it's the ability to have some of that ADAS technology, but I don't think that's the main driver.

更重要的是，这种体验会是什么样的，以及这辆车还能为我提供哪些其他功能。

It's more about what's that experience gonna be and what other options that vehicle provide for me.

在很多方面，这关乎营销，让乘客感受到它的体验，从而持续激发他们对更多功能的需求。

In many ways, it's about marketing, getting people in the cars to understand what it feels like and then sort of perpetuate that demand for wanting more and more and more.

从你的角度看，消费者在安全方面的心理准备到位了吗？

From your perspective, is the consumer mindset there from a safety perspective?

从这个角度来看，法规也到位了吗？

Is the regulation there from that perspective as well?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得是的。

Think so.

我认为这是关键的一点。

I think that's the one thing.

如果你想想，你知道，当我们谈到机器人出租车时，现在我们已经开始看到Waymo、Zoox以及其他一些公司，包括特斯拉，让消费者体验这些自动驾驶的机器人出租车。

If you think about you know, I think when you think about robotaxis, right, we're starting to see a lot of that with Waymo and Zooke, some other companies, Tesla, getting consumers into those robotaxis, autonomous.

所以他们终于能亲身体验了，但我仍然认为，让消费者接受电动汽车已经很难了，而要让他们接受自动驾驶汽车则更难。

So they're getting to finally experience that, but I still think, you know, it's been hard to get consumers to trans, you know, kinda consider electric vehicles to get into an autonomous vehicle isn't more so.

因此，我认为从消费者的角度来看，自动驾驶汽车在可信度和安全认知方面还有大量工作要做。

So I think there's still a lot of work to be done in terms of credibility and safety perceptions for autonomous vehicles from a consumer perspective.

斯蒂芬妮，我们期待2026年。

Stephanie, look forward to 2026 for us.

你预计在美国的电动汽车领域会有哪些情况？有没有想到任何可能的增长？

What is it you expect to have in in United States, in particular, in in electric vehicles, and any growth that may or may not come to your mind?

是的。

Yeah.

你知道，2025年最终的结果完全符合我们的预期。

You know, 2025, it ended exactly exactly where we thought it would.

我们的报告明天发布，但全年销量预计将同比下降2%，约为130万辆。

Our report comes out tomorrow, but we're gonna be about 2% down year over year, round up to two 1,300,000 vehicles.

但进入2026年，我们已经取消了胡萝卜和大棒。

But going into 2026, right, we got rid of the carrot and the stick.

我们不再有《通胀削减法案》的税收激励。

We no no longer have the IRA tax incentive.

企业平均燃油经济性标准也放宽了，加州的豁免也取消了。

The corporate average fuel economy standards have been less stringent, the Calvert waiver.

但尽管如此，2026年仍将有20多款新的电动汽车上市。

But given all that, we still have 20 plus new EVs launching in 2026.

所以我认为我们仍然会看到增长势头。

So I think we're still gonna see momentum.

这会很难，但我认为消费者将拥有更多产品。

It's gonna be hard, but I think consumers are gonna have more product.

但我认为我们过去经常谈论的一点是可负担性。

But I think the one thing which we've talked about before in the past is the affordability.

如果你看一下当前的产品阵容，提供的电动汽车中超过60%的价格高于65,000美元，这对许多人群来说都太高了。

If you look at the current product lineup, EVs that are offered, over 60% or over $65,000 that would a lot of demographic.

斯蒂芬妮·瓦尔德兹·斯特里蒂，考克斯汽车公司行业洞察总监。

Stephanie Valdez Streety, director of industry insights, Cox Automotive.

非常感谢。

Thank you so much.

接下来，我们将与卢克斯资本联合创始人彼得·赫伯特交谈，讨论该公司最新基金、最大基金，以及硅谷与华盛顿的碰撞。

Coming up, we'll speak with Lux Capital cofounder Peter Herbert about the firm's latest fund, its biggest fund, Silicon Valley meets DC.

这是彭博科技。

This is Bloomberg Tech.

欢迎回到彭博科技。

Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech.

我们将在节目后期深入探讨一个故事。

There's a story we're gonna go deeper on later in the program.

总统表示，如果信用卡公司不遵守10%的利率上限，它们将面临非法活动的指控。

The president saying that if credit card companies don't respect an interest cap of 10% in the year, they will be facing illegal activity claims, basically.

这两家更具科技属性的公司——Klarna和Affirm——在消息公布后股价均下跌。

These are two of the more tech focused names, Klarna and Affirm, both down on the news.

我还注意到，美国运通的股价也显著下跌，这是一个明显的例子。

I would note American Express is also down as an example significantly.

我们稍后会在节目中详细讨论这一点。

We're gonna get to that later in the program.

我们已从谷歌获得确认，该公司已与苹果达成一项多年协议，让Gemini成为下一代AI语音助手Siri的技术基础。

Back to one of the top stories, we've had confirmation from Google that it has entered into a multiyear agreement with Apple for Gemini to be the underpinnings of the next gen AI Siri.

你可能注意到，就在节目开始前约东部时间10:30，这一消息传出后，Alphabet股价大幅上涨，使其市值达到3.4万亿美元。

You see when the news broke just before the program about 10:30 eastern time, a big jump in Alphabet shares that sent market cap $34,000,000,000,000.

随后股价回落，我还想提醒一下，彭博社在去年11月曾报道，苹果公司即将与谷歌达成一项协议，每年支付约10亿美元，以使用这一规模高达1.2万亿参数的模型。

They then faded, and I'd remind you as well that Bloomberg did report in November that a deal was close for Apple to pay Google about $1,000,000,000 a year for use of that very large 1,200,000,000,000 parameter model.

卡罗，还有别的吗？

Caro, what else?

让我们深入探讨一下Alphabet最近的动向，以及它相对于整个市场的表现。

Well, let's dig in on Alphabet on its recent moves, but also where it stands versus the rest of the market.

彭博社股票记者卡门·莱因克一直在深入研究一个观点，即我们或许正在进入更广泛的投资格局。

Bloomberg equity reporter Carmen Reinke has been really digging in to the idea that maybe we're broadening out.

也许‘七巨头’不再是一个稳赚不赔的选择。

Maybe Mag seven isn't just a surefire bet.

去年，Alphabet还是一个稳赚不赔的选择。

Alphabet was a surefire bet last year.

请告诉我们，我们开始在这些关键的巨型科技股中看到哪些新的区分迹象？

Tell us about the discernment we're starting to see among these key mega caps.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，我们去年看到的情况至少在今年头几周仍在继续，赢家和输家变得非常重要。

I mean, what we saw last year is continuing at least in the first few weeks of this year where the winners and losers are really important.

因此， Alphabet 去年是赢家。

So Alphabet was a winner last year.

它是表现最好的股票之一，也是 Mag7 组中仅有的两只跑赢大盘的股票，另一只是英伟达。

It was the biggest outperformer and one of only two stocks in the Mag7 group that outperformed the broader market, the other one being NVIDIA.

因此，它已经牢牢确立了在人工智能趋势中的主导地位，而保持这一势头至关重要，尤其是考虑到我们已经开始看到其他一些公司略显滞后。

So it's really established itself as dominant in the AI trend, and, you know, maintaining that momentum going forward is really important, especially considering that we're starting to see some of these other names lag a little bit.

你知道，它们的整体增长正在放缓。

You know, they're just slowing down in terms of overall growth.

进入财报季，这些趋势预计将继续。

And heading into earnings season, some of those things are expected to continue.

对吧？

Right?

我们只是正面临规模效应的制约。

We're just we're hitting the the law of large numbers.

预计增长将放缓，这可能也会反映在股价上涨上。

Growth is expected to slow, and so that might translate, you know, into stock gains as well.

今天早上对谷歌和苹果以及关于改进Siri的交易消息来说，真是有趣的一天。

Been an interesting morning for Alphabet and Apple and the news flow around the deal to to improve Siri.

我刚刚在思考那个股票代码本身。

And I was reflecting on on literally just the the ticker.

对吧？

Right?

你知道，谷歌股价飙升，市值突破4万亿美元，但随即又回落了。

You know, Alphabet soars and breaches $4,000,000,000,000 market cap, then kind of fade straight away.

今天早上你在市场上看到人们有什么反应？

What did you see in the markets this morning in terms of how people reacted?

是的。

Yeah.

我们看到了谷歌和苹果股价的大幅上涨。

So we saw that big spike for both Google and alpha or sorry, Google and Apple shares.