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享受这段旅程。
Enjoy the journey.
享受这段旅程。
Enjoy the journey.
享受这段旅程。
Enjoy the journey.
第一期播客。
Podcast one.
就是它了，老兄。
This is it, man.
就是它了。
This is it.
这是第一期。
This is the first one.
这是一颗沉寂了十年的思想炸弹，如今终于启程，开启它的首次航行。
This is a ten year mind grenade that's just just launching off into its maiden voyage.
在我们开始之前，BlurryCreatures，这是我们对这个播客的称呼。
Before we get started, blurrycreatures, what we're gonna call this podcast.
是的。
Yeah.
什么是Blurry Creatures？
What are blurry creatures?
好问题。
Great question.
世界各地都有各种生物的目击记录。
Around the world, there's these, like, documented sightings of all kinds of creatures.
我觉得'blurry'这里有多重含义。
And I think blurry, multiple meanings there.
它们模糊不清，因为科学不承认它们。
They're blurry because science doesn't recognize them.
科学，quote unquote。
Science, quote unquote.
它们模糊了存在与不存在之间的界限。
They're blurry because they blur the lines between what is supposed to exist and what doesn't exist.
几千年来，一直有人声称见过这些生物，传来各种低语和惊呼。
There's, you know, there's been whispers and cries from people seeing creatures for hundreds of years.
它们有各种名字，比如蛾人、泽西恶魔、狗人、大脚怪、雪人、狼人。
They go, like, by the names of, like, Mothman, Jersey Devil, Dogman, Bigfoot, Abominable Snowman, werewolves.
甚至至今仍有人在世界的偏远地区，比如刚果和巴布亚新几内亚等地，声称看到了恐龙。
Sometimes even people see, like, dinosaurs they're describing in remote parts of the world to this day, near The Congo and in Papua New Guinea and places like that.
它们之所以模糊，最明显的原因是，当人在惊慌失措时看到什么，会立刻掏出手机想拍下来。
And they're blurry because, you know, the most obvious one is, in a panic stupor, someone sees something, they pull out their phone to try to take a picture.
你知道的。
You know?
他们的心跳得飞快。
Their heart's beating so fast.
而且
And
但我的意思是，它们总是拍得模糊不清。
But, I mean, they always do come out blurry.
这真是让人沮丧。
It's a frustrating thing.
是不是就像，哦，看到那边树旁那个小斑点了吗？
Is it like, oh, see that little blob over there next
就在那儿。
to the tree?
就是它。
That's it.
所以，模糊生物，老兄。
So, blurrycreatures, man.
这是我起的名字，我觉得它有多重含义。
That's, that's a name I came up with, and, I think it's got multiple meanings.
欢迎来到模糊生物。
Welcome to blurrycreatures.
好的。
Alright.
我的名字是内森·亨利。
So my name is Nathan Henry.
对于各位听众来说，在过去十年里，我几乎探索了所有关于大脚怪这一话题的线索，并由此延伸到了其他生物。
For those of you listening, for the past ten years, I've pretty much gone down every rabbit hole I could find about the topic of Bigfoot, led to other creatures.
但说到大脚怪，我觉得这是个很好的起点。
But, speaking of Bigfoot, I think it's a great place to start.
我几乎看完了所有相关的纪录片，听了数千小时的播客。
I've watched almost all the documentaries, listened to thousands of hours of podcasts.
我读过所有文章。
I've read all the articles.
我看了大量人们上传的糟糕视频。
I watched plenty of bad videos people post.
比如有些博客会发布最新的视频，你知道的，就是那种类型。
Like there's some there's some like these, you know, blogs where they post like the latest video that came out.
我看过一些相当不错的。
I've seen some pretty good ones.
每隔一阵子，在大约250个视频里，会有一个让人惊叹的。
There's a couple like every once in a while out of every like 250 videos, there's like one one is like, woah.
那东西很大，它在动，看起来不像有人穿着戏服在搞恶作剧。
That thing was big and it moved and it didn't look like a didn't look like a guy in a suit trying to pull a hoax.
但我发现的每一条新信息，都会引向下一个线索。
But, every new piece of information that I found sort of led to the next.
很快，我就开始跟朋友和妻子聊起这个话题，然后我意识到：糟了，我真陷进这个话题里了。
Soon I was talking to my friends, my wife, and I kind of realized, uh-oh, like I'm into this topic.
但你知道，总会有一个转折点，让你开始害怕进森林，然后你意识到：好吧，我已经到了这种地步——我真的相信这些东西存在吗？
But you know, there's kind of this point where like things transition to where you start to be afraid to go in the woods and you realize, okay, I'm I'm the point of like, do I think these things exist?
这已经影响到我了，当我走在树林里时，我发现自己已经不再是看这些信息、听这些内容之前的那个我了。
It's like affecting like, if I'm walking around the woods, I'm like, I'm not I'm not the guy I was before I started reading all this information and listening to all this information.
所以我一直想做一档播客。
So I've been wanting to do a podcast forever.
至于播客，你得找到合适的联合主持人。
And when it comes to podcasting, you got to find the right cohost.
你得找一个对这个话题充满热情、有一定外部可信度的人，而不是那种躲在妈妈地下室里谈大脚怪的疯子。
You got to find someone who's passionate about the topic and have some sort of outside credibility, I think, and not just like this crazy guy in his mom's basement, talking about Bigfoot.
所以
So
是的
Yeah.
这确实很有吸引力。
That is that is compelling.
有可能。
It can be.
我的意思是，也许你只是个疯子，但人们就是喜欢你。
I mean, maybe if you're just crazy guy, people love you.
那么，卢克，你呢？
But, what about you, Luke?
来跟我们介绍一下你自己吧。
What's what's tell us all about yourself.
好吧，内特，我很高兴能参与你正在做的事情，我真的觉得，人们总是问你，长大后想成为什么样的人？
Well, Nate, I'm I'm happy to be a part of what you're doing here and I I really think that that for me, you know, people always ask you, what do you wanna be when you grow up?
而我认为我们所有人都处于一种过渡阶段，都觉得自己还在成长，如果我要真的长大，找到理想中的工作，我想成为一名寻宝者。
And, I think we're all in that transition stage of or all of us feel like we still have growing up to do and I I think if I were to grow, you know, to have that job when I grow up, wanna be a treasure hunter.
我很久以前就说过这句话，对我来说，这是一场动物界最伟大的寻宝之旅。
I've said that for a while now and to me this is one of the this is the this is the greatest treasure hunt in the animal kingdom.
这是一个巨大的谜团，我喜欢谜团，也喜欢真实犯罪故事。
This this is a huge mystery, I love mysteries, I love true crime.
我被大脚怪背后的神秘与历史深深吸引。
I'm I'm compelled by the mystery and the history behind behind Bigfoot.
我是个历史迷。
I'm a huge history buff.
我如饥似渴地阅读历史。
I devour history.
我看过很多关于大脚怪的节目。
I've watched a ton of shows on Bigfoot.
我实际上是在加州一个被有些人称为大脚怪核心地带的地方长大的，那是在北加州。
I actually grew up in what what some might say is somewhat the epicenter as far as California in the Bigfoot side and they're from Northern California.
我的祖母就出生并成长于加利福尼亚的哈皮营，那里正好位于大脚怪地区的中心地带，离帕特森-吉姆林影片的拍摄地非常近。
My grandmother is actually from grew up in Happy Camp, California which is right in the dead center of of Bigfoot country, real close to where the Patterson Gimlin film.
所以我家族和这件事有渊源，我通过梳理证据、观看纪录片走了很远的路。
So I have family history in this and I've come come quite a way through sifting through evidence, watching documentaries.
他们还没去进行过那种寻宝之旅，但我并不反对。
They haven't quite gone on that on that own squash hunt yet but I'm not against it.
别一个人去。
Don't do it alone.
所以从探索的角度来看，我认为有许多不同的真相和现实线索交织在这个故事里，就像人们谈论独角兽，但你不会真的有人相信在爱尔兰高地某个地方存在实体的独角兽，对吧？
And so this this to me exploratory wise, I I think there's so many different threads of truth and also reality that feed into this story and it's one of those things where people talk about unicorns and yet yet you don't have people that actually believe in unicorns, physical unicorns that that are somewhere in the Irish Highlands, right?
没人见过它们。
No one sees them.
不知为何，全国各地乃至全世界的人们持续不断地有目击报告，数百年的目击记录，数千年的神话传说，这背后一定有答案，所以我打算全身心投入这片看似疯狂的领域，就像你说的，有很多边缘类型的人在地下室里痴迷于此。
For some reason across the country, across the world, people continually have sightings, hundreds of years of sightings, thousands of years of mythology and there's gotta be an answer and so I'm here to kind of dive into this full body, into this pool of kind of craziness and like you said, it's a lot of fringe y type people in their basement that obsess on
这个。
this.
亚文化。
Subcultures.
我并不是否定这些，我只是想从实证的角度，去梳理你已经梳理过的内容，踏上这段探索之旅，去发现那些模糊的生物——从大脚怪到尼斯湖水怪，再到那些生活在现实边缘、有人说存在于其他维度的事物，不管它究竟是什么。
I don't wanna, I'm not poo pooing that at all, I'm just saying I'm, from an empirical evidence standpoint, I wanna sift through the things that you have sifted through and I wanna go on this journey in discovering these blurry creatures from Bigfoot to the Loch Ness monster to these things that live on the fringes of reality, some say in other dimensions, whatever it may be.
我愿意踏上这场寻宝之旅，希望在这条彩虹的尽头，我们能找到大脚怪。
I'm game to go to go on this treasure hunt and at the end of the at the end of this rainbow, I'm hoping we find Bigfoot.
太棒了。
Awesome.
他们刚刚发现了那个。
They just found that.
那个家伙把宝藏藏在了内华达山脉。
That one guy hid that treasure in like the Sierra Nevada.
老兄，是的。
Dude, yes.
好的。
Okay.
所以是福雷斯特·芬恩。
So Forrest Finn.
你对那件事感到失望吗？
Were you bummed about that?
是的，你知道吗，有意思的是，当时我兄弟乔丹给我发了条短信，说：‘你听说他们找到福雷斯特·芬恩的宝藏了吗？’
Yeah, you know what's funny, when that happened my brother Jordan sent me a text and said, Did you hear they found Forrest Finn's treasure?
因为我爸真的超爱寻宝，我不是开玩笑——他住在加利福尼亚北部，我妈和他住那儿，他们来纳什维尔时，我会让他带上金属探测器，我们一起在私人土地上（当然我们有许可）搜寻内战时期的遗物之类的东西，不是那种合法意义上的‘寻宝’。
Because my dad literally I'm not joking about treasure hunting, like my dad comes to Nashville and he still lives in Northern California, mom and dad live there and they come out here, I tell him to bring his metal detector and we go on these little metal detecting trips to look for civil war relics and things like that on private land, that we have permission, obviously not the legal type of Yeah.
但我们最近几次都去过了。
But we and we've done it last couple of times.
我爸特别喜欢，我也很喜欢。
My dad loves it and like, I love it.
这种寻宝的刺激感。
It's the thrill of the hunt.
你可能会找到一些旧硬币，赚不少钱。
You could find some old coins and make some real money.
那就是说，你知道的，你永远无法预料。
That's the well, you know, you never know.
我觉得这才是其中的乐趣，所以。
I think that's the fun part of it and so
你是那种在海滩上拿着……的人吗？
Are you one of those guys on the beach with the like the
不，不，我根本不会知道。
No, no, would never know.
雷恩·坦波。
Rain tempo.
别拿好时光诱惑我，但不行。
Don't tempt me with a good time but no.
别诱惑我。
Don't tempt.
没那么严重，但我认为福里斯特·芬恩的事情很有趣，因为有个家伙得了绝症，觉得自己时日无多，却意外发现了财富，并把宝藏藏在外面很久。
Not so much but I I think that the Forrest Fenn thing is interesting in the sense that like, gosh, here's a real treasure that some guy who, you know, had terminal cancer that thought it was the end of his, his days and when he hit his fortune and it stayed out there for a really long time.
我觉得有好几个人在寻找宝藏时丧命了。
I think several people died trying to find it.
是的。
Yeah.
大家都怪那个人，说：嘿，你你
And everyone was mad at the guy like, hey, you you
这都是你的错。
It's your fault.
是的。
Yeah.
知道。
Know.
就连这件事，他也遭到了取消文化的针对。
Cancel culture went after him even for that.
没错。
Right.
我的意思是，确实如此。
I mean I mean, yeah.
想想看，如果你是发明了飞机或汽车的那个人，每个人都会——
Just think if you're gosh, if you're the guy that invented planes or cars, everybody
你能想象吗？就在那一刻，你坐在那里，大概三十秒，心想：我找到了。
Could you imagine just finding that, like, just that moment where, like, sitting there for, like, thirty seconds, like, this is I found it.
没错。
Right.
你希望找到它的人——不管是男是女——没有为了找它抵押全部身家，结果却发现根本没回本。
And you're hoping that he didn't he didn't that he or she, whoever found it, didn't mortgage their entire life to find it, only to find out that they didn't break even.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，这太棒了，因为我觉得大脚怪就像一种宝藏，总有一天会有人从树林里拖出一只。
I mean well, that's awesome because I think Bigfoot is sort of like it's a treasure in a way that, like, someone's going to carry one out of the woods one of these days.
而那个发现它的人将成为传奇，向全世界证明大脚怪确实存在的人。
And that guy that person will be the legend, you know, the person who proved the big to the world that Bigfoot existed.
但在我们继续之前，我觉得很多人——咱们来聊聊这个。
But before we go there, I think a lot of people let's talk about this.
对我来说，听这个播客的人大致可以分为三种类型。
I think for me, there's, like, there's, like, three different types of people listening to this podcast.
第一种人，一听到‘大脚怪’这个词，脑子里想到的全是小报新闻。
There's people who, like that you say the word Bigfoot, all they think is tabloids.
第二种人处于中间，持开放态度，看过几部纪录片，有个朋友对此着迷，或者曾在深夜篝火旁喝着啤酒讨论过。
And then there's people who are, like, in the middle who are open minded, who's watched a couple documentaries, had has a friend who's into it, has had some discussions around the bonfire late at night with a couple beers.
第三种人则是更资深的，或者说超出平均水平的人，把这当成一种爱好。
And then there's, like, experts or not you know, like, above average people who are, it's a hobby.
他们会亲自出去寻找。
They go out.
他们懂这些术语。
They know the terminology.
他们参加大会。
They go to conferences.
他们后院里有个大脚怪雕像。
They have a Bigfoot statue in their backyard.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
比如
Like
对。
Right.
不。
No.
人们真的过着这样的生活。
People people live this.
它变成了一种痴迷。
It becomes it becomes the obsession.
它成了他们的全部生活。
It becomes their lives.
如果你关注那些最终找到泰坦尼克号、西班牙大帆船或这些惊人无价宝藏的伟大寻宝者，你会发现，当他们终于抵达时，已经抵押了一切，多次破产，大多数情况下还在过程中失去了家人、亲友。我认为这与这种亚文化中的某些人非常相似——他们深信某种东西存在，并且值得去寻找，是的。
If you watch on any of these great treasure hunters that end up finally finding the Titanic or these Spanish galleons or these amazing priceless treasures, by the time they've gotten there, they've mortgaged everything, they've gone bankrupt a number of times, they most of the time have lost family members or family or friends in the process and I don't think that's too unlike some of the subculture in this that where people are so convinced that this is something that exists and is worth finding, Yeah.
他们为此倾尽所有。
That they sell out for it.
对，对，中间有错。
Right right wrong in between.
我认为这其实就是寻宝本身。
I would say it's the it's the treasure hunt.
对吧？
Right?
但我觉得，即使在你开始寻找宝藏之前，就已经有这么多怀疑者了。
But I think even before you start looking for a treasure though, have all these skeptics.
你有这么多人说，不，这根本不存在， blah blah blah blah。
You have all these people that are like, nah, it doesn't exist, blah blah blah blah.
我认为，在第一集中，我们想探讨的是：如何让那些只是随便看看、从未真正深入了解过这个话题的人，也能被吸引进来。
And I think for us, episode one, what I'd like to unpack is like, okay, how do we get the people who are just cruising into this episode thinking themselves, I've never actually legitimately looked into this topic.
我认为，在接下来的几集中，我们会深入展开。
And I think over the course of the next several episodes, we'll go into depth.
但你和我可以快速过一下这五个主要支柱。
But you and I can go through real quickly these five major pillars.
对。
Right.
关于这一点，稍微补充点背景：当我和内特讨论这个播客时，我问他：那你为什么相信这个东西是真实存在的？你相信大脚怪、雪人、沼泽猿，或者你叫它什么的，到底基于哪些核心依据？
And just for a little back just back knowledge or backstory on this is when Nate and I were talking about this podcast, I was asking him, well, so, you know, why why do you believe that this is a this thing exists and this is real and and and what are your pillars of belief when it comes to to Bigfoot, to Sasquatch, to Yeti, to the swamp ape, to everything that you wanna call him.
他到底是男的还是女的？
What what is him or her?
你的核心信念到底是什么？
What are your what are your pillars of belief?
对你来说，这最终归结为这五个支柱，即你认为支持这一现象的证据，我认为拆解这些内容对于为接下来这段探索旅程、这个话题以及关于哈利森林人的讨论奠定基础至关重要。
And for you, it came down to these to these five pillars of what you believe is evidence for this and and I think breaking this down is very important to lay a foundation for the rest of this journey and discovery, and topic and discussion on on the Harry Forest, man.
你知道，在远古时代，你看起来很不错。
You know, it's ancient times and you're looking good.
也许在圣经时代，你穿着一件五彩斑斓的外衣。
Maybe you have a coat of many colors back in the Bible times.
卢克，你今天去哪儿买这样的衣服？
Where would you get one today, Luke?
除非你是大脚怪，自己长出一件羊绒毛衣，否则昆恩是那个提供我们钟爱的日常必需品的地方，品质一如既往。
Well, unless you're Bigfoot and you grow your own cashmere sweater, Quinn's is the place that got everyday essentials that we love with quality of last.
我现在穿的就是一件昆恩的衬衫。
I'm actually wearing a Quinn shirt right now.
我们来看看这件。
Let's look at that.
这些衣服已经经受住了多次洗涤。
These things have survived a number of washes.
它们不会缩水。
They don't shrink.
这是高品质的材料。
It's premium premium material.
他们有轻质羊绒衫、短袖蒙古羊绒Polo衫、亚麻裤和短裤、T恤，以及100%皮马棉和欧洲亚麻针织面料。
They've got light cashmere sweaters, short sleeve Mongolian cashmere polos, linen bottoms and shorts, tees, a 100% Pima cotton and European jersey linen.
我这里穿的是100%皮马棉的。
I got the 100% Pima cotton here.
我们完全是纯棉的，内特。
We're just fully cottonized, Nate.
羊绒是100%蒙古产的，和奢侈品牌用的一样。
The cashmere is a 100% Mongolian, the same stuff that luxury brands use.
Quinn直接与符合高工艺标准和道德生产规范的顶级工厂合作，省去中间商，让你享受更实惠的价格。
Quinn's works directly with top factories that meet high standards for craftsmanship and ethical production, cutting out the middlemen so you get the deal.
羊绒、真丝、有机棉，真正的好东西，穿着舒适、经久耐穿，还不让您的钱包喊救命。
Cashmere, silk, organic cotton, real pieces that feel good, last long, and don't make your bank account cry for help.
所以今年春天，别再让衣橱变得过于复杂了。
So stop overcomplicating your wardrobe this spring.
你不需要一个塞满各种选择的衣柜。
You don't need a closet full of options.
你需要的是一些基础单品，一些真正实用的 essentials。
You need a few pieces, a few staples, if you will, that actually work.
现在就去 quince.com/blurrier，享受免费配送和365天无理由退换。
So right now, go to quince.com/blurrier for free shipping at three hundred and sixty five day returns.
整整一年的时间让你打造衣橱并爱上它，你一定会的。
That's a full year to build your wardrobe and love it, and you will.
现在在加拿大也能购买了。
Now available in Canada too.
嘿。
Hey.
别再将就那些不耐穿的衣服了。
Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last.
前往 quince.com/blurry，quince.com/blurry。
Go to quince.com/blurry, quince.com/blurry.
享受免费配送和365天无理由退换，quince.com/blurry。
For free shipping and three hundred sixty five day returns, quince.com/blurry.
是的。
Yeah.
显然，对我来说，第一本是《圣经》。
Obviously, to me, number one's the bible.
对吧？
Right?
你不会觉得《圣经》和模糊生物有什么关系吧。
You wouldn't think the bible has anything to do with blurry creatures.
最终，当你沿着大脚怪的线索一路追溯下去，你会发现，在播客和纪录片中，人们最终会采访牧师和圣经学者，因为你知道，《圣经》尽管是宗教文本，却是有史以来最伟大的历史著作之一。
Ultimately, the when you go down the trail, like, of of where Bigfoot is, you'll find eventually on podcasts, documentaries, they start interviewing pastors, biblical scholars because the history you know, the Bible is one of the greatest history books of all time despite being religious text.
它只是提到了这些生物。
It just talks about these creatures.
在《圣经》中，旧约里有一个术语，在《创世纪》第六章的多个地方被随意提及，叫做尼菲林。
So in the Bible, the Old Testament has a term that's kind of dropped real casually several places in Genesis six mainly called the Nephilim.
这描述的是那些英勇的伟人。
That describes these mighty men of valor.
但对大多数人来说，他们就是巨人，真正的巨人。
But they're to most people, they're giants, literal giants.
而且，你知道，你的牧师很可能在周日早上从没提过这个。
And, you know, like, your pastor's probably not talked about this on Sunday morning.
但《圣经》里有数百处经文都提到了这些巨人种族。
But there there's hundreds of verses about these these races of giants.
迦南人、祖姆人、拉法音人、亚衲人。
The Canaanites, the Zumim, the Raphaim, the the Anakim.
你可以想象，如果你是个神学家，或者是在教会环境中长大的人，你会觉得：我这辈子从来没听过这个。
You can only imagine, like, if you're a theologian or you're someone who grew up in the church, you're like, I have never heard this in my life.
这可不是《圣经》里随口一提的内容。
Like, this isn't a casual thing that the Bible talks about.
他们甚至提到这些盾牌有多重，他们有多高。
Like, they even talk about how heavy the the shields were, how tall they were.
在《民数记》中说，他们如此高大，让以色列人看起来像蚱蜢。
In Numbers, it says they were so big they made the Israelites look like grasshoppers.
所以我们说的是可能有四五十英尺高。
So we're talking maybe forty, fifty foot tall.
这不仅仅是圣经中随意提及的一件事。
This isn't just something that is casually mentioned in the Bible.
这是旧约中的一个核心内容。
It's like a staple part of the Old Testament.
这太疯狂了。
That's crazy.
你是在教会环境中长大的。
You grew up in the church.
你说这里提到的尼菲林经文数量是基督之母马利亚的三倍，这
You say here that the Nephilim were mentioned in three times as many verses as as Mary, mother of Christ, which
这只是‘巨人’这个词。
It's just the word giants.
但即便如此，这简直太疯狂了。
But still, I mean, that's that's an insanity.
你想想人们对玛丽亚的崇敬，尤其是在天主教信仰中。
You think about the reverence for for Mary, I mean, especially in the Catholic faith.
在天主教信仰里，玛丽亚几乎被神化了。
And and Mary's basically deified in the Catholic faith.
但巨人被提及的次数却是基督之母玛丽亚的三倍。
And it's like and yet giants are talked about three times as much as Mary mother of Christ.
这些族群甚至被提及得更多，比如亚摩利人就出现了80次。
Well, these tribes are even discussed even more like the Amorites 80 times.
但只是这个词，如果你用圣经App，可以直接搜索关键词，就会显示出相关经文。
But just the word like if you have your bible app, you can just you can just Google words, you know, and it'll show up verses.
而且，是的，大概有四五十节经文都直接提到了巨人。
And like, yeah, there's probably like 40 or 50 verses that just come up with giants in it.
这太疯狂了。
It's wild.
但这恰恰说明，奇怪的想法和经文往往没人讨论。
But it just goes to show you that like weird ideas, weird verses, they don't get talked about.
对吧？
Right?
但圣经中有很多证据支持这些模糊的生物的存在。
But the Bible has a lot of evidence to support blurry creatures, so to speak.
科学尚未承认这些事物，但确实有很多报告。
And, science hasn't recognized those things yet, but, there is a lot of reports.
他们挖出了这些巨人骨骼，但如今已不像过去那样成为头条新闻了。
They've dug up these bones of these giants, but it doesn't make the, headline news like it used to.
是的，确实不会。
No, it doesn't.
这让人不禁疑惑。
Makes you wonder.
我对当我们深入探讨这个问题时很感兴趣，想了解我们如何将大脚怪与旧约中的巨人联系起来，以及在你的研究和思考中，这些是如何交织在一起的。因为作为同样在基督教教会中长大的人，我想说，这在主日学或青年团契中从来不是个话题。
I'm I'm interested when we when we hit this at full speed to understand the thought of how we can relate Bigfoot to the giants of the old testament and how in your research, in your mind these mix because I would say that as someone who also grew up in the church, in a Christian church, that this wasn't a topic that you had at youth group or
是的。
Yeah.
这并不是偶然的，我认为在很多方面都有其合理原因。
It wasn't mean, it's for good reason I think in a lot of ways.
我的意思是，我们经常谈论福音和其他种种，但这些内容似乎被轻描淡写或有意跳过了，我认为这是因为这些话题缺乏实证证据——我们看不到，也听不到。
I mean, a lot of times you we talk about the gospel and and this and that, but it seems to be glossed over or intentionally skipped over in a lot of and I think it's because it's one of those things that with empirical evidence, it's just not, you know, we don't see it or we don't hear about it.
这两者完全是两回事。
Those are two different things completely.
归根结底，每个人都害怕被人嘲笑。
Well, think everyone at the end of the day is afraid of being laughed at.
对吧？
Right?
而很多这类话题，大家都会说，哦，是啊。
And that a lot of these topics, like everyone goes, oh, yeah.
科学界完全愿意证明一个模糊生物的存在。
Science would just totally be willing to prove the existence of a blurry creature.
但我觉得，并不总是如此。
And I'm like, not always.
如果某件事太过八卦，与你的自我、身份、工作或生计紧密相连，
Like, if something is so tabloid, it's connected to your ego, your identity, your your workplace, your livelihood.
我听过数百个案例，人们都说：别用我的名字。
I've heard hundreds of accounts of people saying like, don't use my name.
保密我的身份。
Keep my keep keep my identity secret.
我在纪录片里看到过，就会想：为什么？
I've seen that on documentaries and you're like, why?
只是谈论你在树林里看到的东西而已。
Just talking about something you saw in the woods.
我曾经在林业部工作。
I used to work for the forest Department of Forestry.
我不被允许谈论这个。
I'm not allowed to talk about this.
你可能会说，等一下。
And you're like, wait a minute.
这个话题牵涉到很多奇怪的禁忌。
There's so much weird taboo connected to this subject.
所以人们会觉得，哦，你疯了。
So people think, oh, you're crazy.
每个人都开明。
Everyone's open minded.
每个人都愿意接受新想法。
Everyone's willing to accept new ideas.
但我觉得，事实并非如此。
And I'm like, that's not the case.
人们其实很固执。
People are closed minded.
不。
No.
人们更关心的是养家糊口，而不是出来宣称他们支持森林中某种生物的存在。
And people are more concerned about feeding their families than they are trying to come out and say they support the existence of some creature in the woods.
所以，无论如何，《圣经》里充满了这些内容。
So anyway, the Bible is chock full of it.
如果你从来没听过这些，那你接触到的只是迪士尼版的《圣经》。
If you've never heard that, you've you've been given the Disney version of the Bible.
但真正的R级版本中，有堕落的天使，他们创造了这些巨人，而且到处都是。
But the, real rated R version, they have fallen angels, created these giants, and they're all over the place.
情况太糟了，也许这就是上帝用洪水毁灭世界的原因。
So bad, perhaps that's why God destroys the world in the flood.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
这就是那个限制级版本。
That's the that's the rated R version.
哇。
Wow.
你可能被灌输了一个不太一样的版本。
You were told probably a little bit different version.
所以这只是《圣经》。
So that's just the Bible.
希望我们能深入探讨一下。
Hopefully, can really dive into that.
我认识一些对这些内容非常了解的人，他们能讲得清清楚楚，让你脑洞大开。
I know some guys that are really smart with all this stuff and can really lay it out and get your mind spinning.
所以对你来说，第一大支柱是《圣经》。
So pillar number one for you is the Bible.
你的第二大支柱是什么？
What's your second pillar?
所以最著名的有记录的事件。
So the most famous documented accounts.
而且这些事件并不一定被100%证实。
And it's not necessarily proven a 100%.
不管这些事件中发生了什么，那都是大脚怪。
Whatever happened in these accounts was Bigfoot.
但你知道，在科学中，有时候你只能倒推，排除所有其他可能性，然后不得不承认：一定发生了什么。
But, you know, sometimes in science, you just kinda you you you kinda work backwards and you pull away all the possibilities and you gotta go, something happened.
所以是魔鬼小径事件。
So the Devil's Pass incident.
你知道吗？
You know?
你听说过这个吗？
You're familiar with that one?
是的。
Yeah.
这是俄罗斯。
This is Russia.
对。
Yeah.
还有乌拉尔山脉。
And the Ural Mountains.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Absolutely.
我读过那本书。
I read the book.
1959年的迪亚特洛夫山口事件，九名俄罗斯学生徒步者前往一座名为‘死山’的山峰。
The Dyatlov Pass in 1959, nine Russian hikers who were students, they go up this mountain that's called Dead Mountain.
你有没有注意到这一点？
You ever noticed that?
比如这些魔鬼峰、死山、魔鬼峡谷。
Like, these Devil's Peak, Dead Mountain, Devil's Gorge.
为什么这些多山的诡异地方都带有‘魔鬼’这个词呢？
Like, why are all these mountainous crazy places that would have the words devil in them anyway?
是的。
Yeah.
在夜里，这些人被某种东西袭击，然后逃离了他们的营地。
During the night, these dudes get attacked by something, and then they they run away from their campsites.
他们中有一半人得了低体温症。
They half of them have hypothermia.
他们的营地被毁了。
Their campsites destroyed.
但奇怪的是。
But here's the weird part.
对吧？
Right?
他们的身体。
Their bodies.
他们有创伤。
They had trauma.
有个人的头被砸烂了。
One guy had his head smashed in.
两个人的胸部被完全砸碎，其他人的眼睛不见了。
Two guys had their chest totally totally smashed, and then others missing eyes.
还有一个人的舌头被扯了出来。
And then one guy's tongue was ripped out.
你怎么看这件事？
What do you make of that?
我的意思是，我不仅读过这本书，还看过一些关于这个事件的纪录片，他们确实展示了学生们沿途拍的一些照片。
Well, I mean, I've I've not only read the book, watched, some documentaries on this, and they actually show some of the photos that these students took, along their way.
你猜怎么着，他们回头拍照时，照片里出现了模糊的东西。
And wouldn't you know, looking they're taking pictures looking back, and there's blurry somethings in the picture.
当他们深入分析时，你听好了。
And when they really break it down and you're in Wait.
照片里有模糊的东西，像是一个雪人？
There's blurry there's like a bonnold snowman in the in the photos?
是的。
Yeah.
真的吗？
Really?
对。
Yeah.
我没读过这部分，太惊人了。
I didn't I didn't read that part, that's amazing.
他们所认为的，正如我们一开始讨论的，是这些模糊的东西，但这件事中有太多奇怪的地方。
What they believed what what they believed to be, you know, as again, it's we talked about in the beginning, it's this blurry stuff but there's so many odd things about this.
无论这些露营的学生遭遇了什么，他们都是从帐篷内部割开逃出去的。
The whatever happened to these to these campers, these student campers, they cut their way out of their own tent from the inside.
他们吓得连衣服都没穿，当时他们在西伯利亚，根本没顾上穿保暖衣物，就拼命逃跑。
So scared they didn't put on they're in Siberia, they didn't put on clothes to be out in the cold, they ran for their lives.
而且他们深陷在西伯利亚的森林里，正值隆冬时节。
And they're deep in the Siberian forest in like the dead of winter.
有趣的是，有很多理论认为他们想逃离某种东西，比如雪人或大脚怪，尽管我认为，从证据来看，这很可能是最合理的假设，虽然大多是间接证据。
And one thing that's interesting is that there there's a lot of theories that they wanna get away from something, you know, something along the lines of a Yeti or a Bigfoot, even though there's a lot of what I would believe to be circumstantial evidence that that definitely is is probably the the biggest possibility when it comes to a hypothesis.
这些学生拼命逃跑，逃离了帐篷，逃离了帐篷里的温暖，有人赤着脚，有人只穿了一半衣服，还从内部割开了自己的帐篷。
These these students ran for their lives, ran for their lives away from their tent, away from the from the warmth of their tent, some barefoot, some half dressed, cut their way out of their own tent.
这些孩子当时吓得要命，结果他们的尸体却伤痕累累，被严重殴打。
So these kids were scared for their lives and then their bodies are are mangled and and beaten.
是的。
Yeah.
我读到过，有些人倒在山坡下的一棵树下，基本上已经冻僵了。
I read that some of them were, like, down the hill under a tree and they were frozen, basically.
他们根本没再回到营地。
They, like, didn't go back to their campsite.
他们有点被困住了。
They were kinda stuck.
所以那些幸存下来的人最终逃离了这个营地。
So the ones that survived ended up getting away from this campsite.
然后有一个说：不。
I and then one was like No.
没有人幸存。
None none survived.
不。
No.
不。
No.
意思是，他们没能在最初的袭击中活下来。
Mean, not survived the initial attack.
哦。
Oh.
但他们都在帐篷几百码范围内。
But they were all within a couple 100 yards of their tent.
然后他们都没回去。
Then none of them went back.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
完全正确。
Totally.
然后有一个人在峡谷里被发现，舌头伸在外面，对吧？
And then one of them was found in the ravine, right, with his tongue out?
是那个人吗？
Was that the one?
舌头被撕了出来。
Tongue ripped out.
我的意思是，这真是相当残忍的事情。
I mean, just pretty brutal stuff.
你可以从法医的角度来想想这件事。
You think about that from like a a forensics, you know, standpoint.
熊不可能把舌头扯出来。
A a bear can't rip a tongue out.
不可能把眼睛挖出来。
Can't can't gorge eyes out.
不。
No.
这需要一种可怕的精细动作。
It's a gross dexterity.
是的。
Yeah.
所以，这就是为什么它会被列入名单的原因。
So, I mean, so this is why it makes the list.
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对吧？
Right?
因为这就像是这样。
Because it's it's like this.
只有像这样的人，要么是某个疯狂的家伙在荒野中
It's only someone like, either a crazy human being in the middle of this
在西伯利亚的荒无人烟之地。
Middle of nowhere, Siberia.
是的。
Yeah.
乌拉尔山脉。
Ural Mountains.
是的。
Yeah.
或者这个传说中数千年来存在于这些雪山中的生物——雪人，下来了。
Or this creature yeti that's been described for thousands of years to exist in these snowy Alps, you know, like, came down.
我的意思是，有些人可能会说，哦，你只是在胡乱推断，你这是在跳跃逻辑。
I mean but some people would say, oh, you're just you're making you know, you're you're jumping a logical leap there.
你走得有点太远了。
You're going way too far.
嗯。
Mhmm.
你知道，我们没有证据证明这些东西存在，但我只是说，可能的解释其实只有那么几种。
You know, we don't have proof that these things exist, but I'm just saying there's only a couple of things it could be.
对。
Right.
而且，这仅仅是众多案例中的一个。
And I mean, this is just one of many.
是的。
Yes.
我的意思是，我倾向于认为这是间接的、轶事性的证据。
I mean, I would say that circumstantial anecdotal evidence.
我认为另一本对我而言很重要的书是《漫长的步行》，这本书讲述了一位波兰战俘据称从西伯利亚的战俘营一路步行到印度的经历。
I think another and this is this was for me is a book called The Long Walk, which essentially is a book written by a Polish prisoner of war who walked from a Siberian prison camp all the way to India allegedly.
关于这个故事，有很多猜测，很多人认为作者拉戈维茨很可能并不是那个实际步行的人，但有大量证据表明，一些确实完成过这段旅程的波兰士兵的经历构成了这个故事的基础，而他之所以被列为作者，可能另有原因。
Now there's a lot of speculation about this and a lot of speculation about this story is that Ragowitz, the guy that wrote it, most people agree that he probably wasn't the person that walked but there's a lot of evidence that some of the Polish troops, individuals that actually did make a walk and there's evidence that the people did, provided the basis for this story and why he was named the author.
我坚信，许多学者也持相同观点，他是在为一群无法署名的人发声，因为那些仍身处苏联、仍受苏联控制的人若被牵连，可能会面临危险，无论是因为他的名字，还是因为他们的名字
I'm of the belief and so are lot of scholars that he was writing on behalf of a group of individuals who could not be named because there's a lot of danger for some people that were still in the Soviet Union, that were still under Soviet control that could be in danger because his name was on it or because their names
出现在故事里，但这有点像
were on story, but it's kinda
比如
like
名字和人物都已更改，以保护身份。
the names and the characters have been changed to protect Okay.
那么，这个故事本身呢？
So what what about the story that's
有趣的是，这个故事有这样一点。
Well, here's the thing that's interesting about the story.
对吧？
Right?
这是一个关于人类精神、克服困境以及完成超越我们想象之事的非凡传奇。
It's an incredible saga of of the human spirit and and of overcoming and of doing sort of things beyond what we thought capable.
你从西伯利亚的监狱营逃出后，一路步行到印度。
You walk from Siberia to India after you escape a prison camp.
但真正有趣的是，当他们穿越喜马拉雅山脉时，作者几乎顺带提到，他们偶然看到了一些他们认为是雪人的生物——无法辨识的双足动物，四处走动并留下巨大的脚印，这在故事中只是个插曲。
But really interesting though is when they're going through the Himalayas, almost as an aside, the author says that they happen to see what they believed to be yetis, things that he couldn't unidentify animals that were bipedal, that walked around and left huge footprints and it was almost an aside in the story.
但这并不是故事的重点。
And it wasn't that's not the point of the story.
故事的重点是，这个人为了自由，从西伯利亚步行到了印度。
The point of the story is the guy walked from Siberia to to India for his freedom.
这并没有为故事增添多少意义。
It doesn't add much to the story.
它并不是核心内容。
It's not the focal point.
是的。
Yeah.
如果你是个编辑，或者你懂我的意思吧？
And if you're an editor or you're like a you know what I mean?
你会去找你的同事说：是的。
You're gonna go you're gonna go to your guy and be like, yeah.
我们要把这部分删掉。
We're gonna we're gonna cut that part out.
它并不能为故事增加可信度
It doesn't it doesn't lend credence to
你想想，其他所有内容都让人信服。
your You're like, everything else is believable.
从西伯利亚走到印度，这事儿是真的。
You know, walking from Siberia to India.
对。
Yeah.
我完全理解。
I totally get that.
你在喜马拉雅山看到了什么奇怪的东西？
Saw something weird in the Himalayas?
是的。
Yeah.
我不是说，那个家伙。
I don't you know, guy.
让我们在这里削弱可信度。
Let's let's take away from credibility here.
我们就直接删掉这一段吧。
Let's just let's just dump that one.
但不，我的意思是，它还是保留着。
But, no, I mean, it stays in there.
这是目击者证词的一部分。
It's it's part of the eyewitness account.
当你看到过那样的事情后，你的信念就会坚定地说：不。
And when you've seen something like that, you've your conviction goes, no.
那就是真相。
That's that's that's the truth.
我想把它保留下来。
I want that in there.
对吧？
Right?
你是什么时候读这本书的？
When did you read this book?
天哪。
Oh, man.
五年前，或者六年前。
Five years ago, six years ago.
已经很久了。
It's been a while.
你读这本书时对YETI有什么看法？
What did you think about YETI when they when you read the book?
这就像远古时代一样，卢克。
It's just like the ancient times, Luke.
科技变得疯狂了。
The tech is getting crazy.
就好像我们又回到了巴别塔时代，有卫星，有自动驾驶汽车。
It's like we're at the Tower Of Babble again, satellites, cars driving themselves.
但尽管有这么多科技，我们的无线账单却并没有下降。
But somehow with all this tech, our wireless bills aren't going down.
这就是我们喜欢Mint Mobile的原因。
And that's why we love what Mint Mobile is doing.
他们把整个体系都简化了。
They stripped the whole thing down.
没有实体店，没有奇怪的费用，也没有藏在暗处的合同。
No storefronts, no weird fees, no contracts lurking in the shadows.
他们只是帮助人们以每月15美元的起价使用无线服务。
They're just helping people with wireless starting at $15 a month.
是的。
Yeah.
Mint Mobile 是告别无线服务高消费、高额账单、随机费用以及最终并不免费反而让你多花钱的所谓免费福利的方式。
Mint Mobile is the way to say goodbye to overpaying for wireless, high bills, random fees, and free perks that end up not being free and costing you more money on the back end.
别再因为无线服务一直如此就多花钱了。
So stop overpaying for wireless just because it's always how it's been.
对。
Yeah.
让我们改变未来，内特。
Let's change the future, Nate.
没错。
That's right.
你得到的是同样的覆盖范围和可靠性，只是每个月消失的钱少了很多。
You get the same coverage, same reliability, just a lot less money disappearing every month.
而且你可以保留你的联系人、你的手机，并在几分钟内完成切换。
And you get to bring your contacts, your phone, and you can switch in minutes.
医生。
Doctor.
朱德·伯顿每天都在拨打电话，为我们带来学术界和古代世界在Mint Mobile上的最新动态。
Judd Burton's out there dialing up blurry every day, giving us the scoop on what's going on in the academic world and the ancient world on Mint Mobile.
没错。
That's right.
而且他确实一直在外面。
And he's out there.
我曾经开玩笑说他用牙刷，但我说我再也不这样做了。
I would joke that he's using a toothbrush and he's like, I don't do that anymore.
我是个学者。
I'm a scholar.
我让别人用牙刷来拂去灰尘。
I let other people use a toothbrush to wipe the dust away.
我们仍然能在工地听到他清晰响亮的声音，尤其是在德克萨斯州偏远的荒野中。
We could still hear him saying that loud and clear on the job sites, way out in the middle of nowhere, Texas.
如果你想像杰出的朱德·伯顿医生那样省钱，就切换到Mint Mobile，月费低至15美元。
And if you wanna save money just like the illustrious doctor Judd Burton, switch to Mint Mobile with plans starting at just $15 a month.
所有套餐都包含高速数据、无限通话和短信，并接入美国最大的五大5G网络。
All plans come with high speed data, unlimited talk, and text delivered to the nation's largest five g network.
所以别再为高价无线服务付费了，用每月15美元就能享受Mint Mobile三个月的优质无线服务。
So ditch overpriced wireless and get three months of premium wireless service from Mint Mobile for $15 a month.
如果你在乎钱，Mint Mobile就适合你。
If you like your money, Mint Mobile's for you.
前往mintmobile.com/blurry查看套餐。
Shop plans at mintmobile.com/blurry.
那就是mintmobile.com/blurry。
That's mintmobile.com/blurry.
一次性支付45美元，即可享受三个月服务。
Upfront payment for $45 for three months.
需要五吉字节套餐，相当于每月15美元。
Five gigabyte plan required, equivalent to $15 a month.
仅限新客户前三个月优惠，之后可选择全价套餐。
New customer offer for first three months only, then full price plan options available.
额外收取税费。
Taxes and fees extra.
详情请见Mint Mobile。
See Mint Mobile for details.
我的意思是，我一直对这个话题有着浓厚的兴趣。
I mean, I've always been had an had more than a passive interest in in the topic.
让你眼前一亮吗？
Jump out to you?
就像，哇哦。
Like, woah.
是的。
Yeah.
我当时就想，什么？
It was like, what?
那短短几段话讲的是穿越喜马拉雅山脉的经历。
That was a quick little couple paragraphs about walking through the Himalayas.
这就像《创世纪》里的尼菲林一样。
Well, that's like the Nephilim in Genesis.
它只是突然抛出一两节经文，然后继续往下讲，让你不禁惊叹，哇。
It just it just drops a verse or two and then it keeps going and you're like, woah.
哇。
Woah.
哇。
Woah.
等等。
Wait.
什么？
What?
对的。
Right.
这事儿挺有意思的。
It's funny how that happens.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
确实如此。
It is.
这很有趣。
It's it's interesting.
所以，这两个例子，一个是我这边的，一个是你的，都是我们认为能有力佐证神秘模糊生物存在的间接或轶事性证据。
So I those are just two examples I think of of one one for me, one for you that that we find compelling circumstantial or or anecdotal evidence for, the existence of crypto Blurry creature.
但那些徒步者的故事，可能是关于山上恐怖事件中最广为人知的之一。
But that's probably those hikers is probably one of the most well documented, like, terror on the mountain stories.
你知道吧？
You know?
是的。
Yeah.
我在好多历史频道的节目里都见过这个。
I've I've seen that on dozens of history channel, like, stuff like that.
所以这是一个挺流行的故事。
So it's it's a pretty popular story.
我其实已经在好几个播客里听过这个故事了。
I've actually heard that story on several podcasts.
如果你是个忠实的播客听众，这个故事对很多人来说都是必听的。
Like, if you're an avid podcast listener, that one's pretty go to for a lot of people.
对我来说第三个是，对大多数人来说这也是最著名的——帕特森-吉尔曼影片。
So the third one for me, and for the and this is probably the number one for most Bigfoot people, the Patterson Gimlin film.
如果你在听这个，你应该知道那个视频，大脚怪在溪边行走，然后回头张望，网上还有好多这种大脚怪的贴纸。
And, if you're listening to this, you know you probably have seen the video where the Bigfoot's walking along this on the creek and looks back, and there's like bumper stickers of this of this Bigfoot.
这可以说是，你知道的，一直以来最经典的野人视频。
It's kind of, you know, it was forever, like, the Bigfoot video.
是的。
Yeah.
拍摄地点离你的家乡很近，离我的家乡则远一点。
Shot close to your hometown and a little bit further from my hometown.
是的。
Yeah.
在克拉马斯河一带。
Up on the up on the Klamath River.
这段影片大约有59秒，900多帧画面。
And, so it's, like, fifty nine seconds, 900 a little over 900 frames.
当你第一次看到这个视频时，会觉得，哦，是的。
And the the the weird thing about this, at first when you see this, you think, oh, yeah.
这不过是个人穿着戏服假扮的。
It's just a fake guy in a suit.
但那些痴迷于此的极客们发现，这是一个女性，很明显是个女性。
But when you but the nerdy guys who get into this, it's a female, and it's obvious it's a female.
当他们将画面大幅放大并提高清晰度时。
When they really blow it up, they get high definition.
当它回头时，你可以看出它有女性的生理特征。
You can tell it's got female anatomy when it looks back.
然后你就想，好吧。
And you're like, okay.
所以，如果这些家伙真的跑到森林里去伪造这段影片，他们居然决定给这个大脚怪戴上假乳房，让它走过去。
So if they're if if these guys are going out in the woods and they're gonna hoax this film, They they decided they were gonna strap boobs onto this Bigfoot and have it walk through.
而且想想1967年能买到的猩猩服装。
And and think about the gorilla suits that were available in '67.
很难相信。
Hard to believe.
你知道吗，我看过你分享的某个视频，他们说，是的。
You know, I've I've watched something you have where they Yeah.
他们逐帧分析，讨论皮肤下肌肉的运动和起伏，这些都是你无法伪造的。
They break it down frame by frame, talk about the muscles moving and rippling underneath the skin, things that you couldn't you couldn't create.
是的。
Yeah.
在六十年代不可能，现在即使有CGI，你也可能做到部分效果，但这部电影所展现的细节水平确实增强了其可信度。
And not in the sixties, not CGI now, you might be able to do some of that but still the level of detail that you can pull off that film really lends itself to credibility.
更不用说，帕特森和吉姆林都始终如一地坚持立场，帕特森至死都坚称那是真实的。
And it's not to mention that both of both Patterson and Gimlin are basically go to the well, Patterson goes to his grave saying it was real.
是的。
Yeah.
而吉姆林现在经常参加所有大脚怪会议。
And Gimlin now, he goes all the Bigfoot conferences.
他在这一领域已经是个传奇人物了。
He's kind of a legend in this.
如果我们足够幸运，卢克，也许能请他来参加这个节目。
And and if we get if we get good enough, Luke, we might get him on this show.
他留着一副超棒的胡子，老兄。
He's got a great mustache, dude.
我昨晚看了这部纪录片，感觉就像老版的浩克·霍根的胡子，只是是白色的。
I watched this doc last night and it's like it's like it's like the old Hulk Hogan mustache but it's white.
而且，老兄，他还只戴一顶大脚怪帽子。
And I I mean, dude wears just a Bigfoot hat too.
我得说，我们得岔开话题聊聊这个了，伙计。
I got I got we have to just digress on this, man.
他出现在这部制作非常粗糙的纪录片里。
He was on this doc, really poorly produced doc.
我昨晚看了部关于大脚怪的片子。
Was watching last night about Bigfoot.
所有这类片子都制作得很差。
They're all poorly produced.
他戴着一顶写着‘大脚怪’的帽子，留着酷似浩克·霍根的白色胡须，但说真的，他可是正经人。
And he has just a hat that says Bigfoot and this sweet Hulk Hogan stash and thing and then again, he's legit man.
他至今仍活在大脚怪的世界里，活着，也为之而死，老兄。
He's still living it Still living and dying the Bigfoot, man.
他现在已经五十多岁了。
He's fifty fifty years plus later.
我想提一下吉姆林影片中一件有趣的事。
So there's something interesting I wanna note about the the Gimlin film.
我好像从没跟别人说过，但我有个理论，解释为什么他们能拍到迄今为止最好的大脚怪影像。
I don't think I've ever told this to anybody, but I have a theory about why they were able to capture the best film since.
这是我的理论。
Here's my theory.
他们说，我这里的‘他们’指的是研究大脚怪的人。
They say, and I say they, I mean, people do Bigfoot.
他们说，因为总有人打电话给他们，说：我遇到麻烦了。
They talk about because people will call them up and say, I have I have a problem.
那些大脚怪跑到我家来了。
These Bigfoot are coming up to my house.
我们住在乡村地区。
We live in a rural area.
我们不知道该怎么办。
We don't know what to do.
人们打电话来时都吓坏了。
People call terrified.
对吧？
Right?
这些家伙大多接到电话，是因为他们不知道什么时候该打电话。
Most of these guys get phone calls because they don't understand when to call.
就像《捉鬼敢死队》。
It's like Ghostbusters.
你该找谁？
Who do you call?
对吧？
Right?
你打电话给那个做大脚怪播客的人。
You call, like, a guy who does a Bigfoot podcast.
就说，我该怎么办？
Be like, what do I do?
有这些生物要来我家，它们本该是不存在的，但却吓坏了我的孩子。
Like, there's these creatures coming to my house that are still supposed to not to exist, but they're terrifying my kids.
我听过上百个这样的故事。
I heard this from hundreds of stories like this.
他们说，装几个野生动物摄像头。
And they're like, put up some game cams.
他们说，什么？
And they're like, what?
就是啊。
Like, yeah.
他们不喜欢科技。
They don't like technology.
他们不喜欢摄像头。
They don't like cameras.
而且，你会想，哦，是的。
And, like and you you would think, oh, yeah.
他们不够聪明，不知道这一点。
They're they're not smart enough to know this.
但我觉得这些人会去布夫克里克，带着一台老式胶片相机。
But I think these guys go into Bluff Creek, and they've got an old film camera.
所以，也许他们用的不是我们现在这种摄像头，也不是红外线、运动感应摄像头这类技术。
So perhaps it's not the kind of cameras we have now or the technology, the infrared, the game cam, the motion track.
它更像是一种模拟技术。
It's just it's it's it's more like a piece of analog technology.
当然。
Sure.
人们会说，哇哦。
People go, woah.
到处都是这种运动相机。
There's all these game cams everywhere.
如果大脚兽真的在外面，那为什么我们没拍到这么多画面呢？
So why wouldn't we get all this footage of Bigfoot if it's out there?
它们知道那些相机在那里。
Well, they know they're there.
它们知道那些相机的存在。
They know they're they know their cameras.
它们知道那些相机在那里。
They know they're there.
我的意思是，我得站在对立面说一下，比如在我家里，你来我家的时候，我就知道你来了，而且你在我家安了运动相机，因为我对我的家很熟悉。
I mean, I was talking I gotta just play devil's advocate though in this in this sense, like, in my house, you came into my house and I knew you were here and you set up a game cam in my house since I know my house well.
我们假设大脚兽对这片树林非常熟悉。
Let's just say that the Bigfoot knows the woods well.
如果我没看到你这么做，那它怎么可能没拍到你一次两次穿着内衣去厨房呢？
If I didn't see you do that, how would how would it not just how would it not catch me once or twice walking to the kitchen in my underwear or whatever?
我的意思是，这也许不是一个很好的类比，但确实是我能理解你说的意思之一。
I mean, that's maybe not a great analogy but it's one of things that, like, I I I can see what you're saying.
但这也只是
It's just also
这很难。
It's hard.
是的。
Yeah.
这是稀缺性的问题。
It's it's scarcity.
我的意思是，我想我们讨论的是，这个，我不知道。
I mean, I guess that we're talking about, like, this I don't know.
我认为这段影片是可信的。
I mean, I I think the film is credible.
这正是我想说的。
That's what I'm saying.
我只是不
I I just don't
我拼凑出这样一个理解：大脚怪非常聪明。
I've pieced together this understanding that Bigfoot are way smarter.
它们知道正在发生什么。
They they they know what's going on.
它们知道森林里有什么，能够避开红外相机。
They know what's in the woods, and they can avoid a game cam.
好吧。
Okay.
所以是的。
So yeah.
无论如何，这个话题我们可以一直聊下去。
Anyway, we can go forever on that one.
好的。
Alright.
我们来谈谈你的第四个支柱。
Let's go to your fourth pillar.
让我快速总结一下，因为总结很有帮助。
Let me recap real quick because recaps are good.
你的第一个支柱是《圣经》中的证据、尼菲林、巨人，以及关于巨人的记载，提到巨人族群，让以色列人感觉自己像蚱蜢一样渺小。
Your first pillar is the Bible, biblical evidence, Nephilim, giants, the mention of giants, the mention of tribes of giants, making the Israelites of, like, grasshoppers.
你的第二个支柱是历史文献记载。
Your second pillar would be documented historical accounts.
发生在不太久远的过去、更偏向现代时期的事情，比如西伯利亚的魔鬼山口事件，还有‘漫长步行’事件。
Things that have happened in the not so far away, past but more in in the modern era, things like the Devil's Pass incident in Siberia, things like the long walk.
第三个，也是所有大脚怪证据中最著名的，当人们说‘这就是铁证’时，通常指的就是这个。
Three, the most famous of all Bigfoot evidence, and what most people point to when they say this is this is the here's your smoking gun.
那就是帕特森-吉尔林影片。
That's the Patterson Gimlin film.
那么第四个是什么？
So what's number four?
对我来说，第四点是美洲原住民的传说。
Number four to me is Native American legends.
这简直可以单独做一个播客，专门讲各个部落的传说和他们所经历的一切。
And this is just, I mean, you could do a whole podcast on the legends of the tribes and all the things that they dealt with.
但对我来说，关键在于，很多事情都有其内在的证据。
But for me, it's more in, you know, there's there's proof in the pudding in a lot of different ways.
首先，据说原住民对大脚怪有将近一百种不同的叫法。
First off, like, they say that there's almost a 100 different Indian names for Bigfoot.
其中一些比如Skookum、Oma、Buckwhuss，但最广为人知、你我都熟悉的，是Sasquatch。
And some of those are like Skookum, Oma, Buckwhuss, but the most famous one that everyone knows and you and I know, Sasquatch.
是的。
Right.
在大多数美洲原住民部落的民间传说中，这些生物通常被描述为身高九英尺左右，六到九英尺高，非常强壮，浑身长毛，野蛮粗鲁，气味难闻。
You know, it's common to the folklore that most of these Native American tribes, they describe these creatures as like nine nine up to nine foot tall, six to nine foot tall, very strong, hairy, uncivilized, smell terrible.
它们在夜间觅食。
They forage at night.
它们通常生活在深山老林里。
They're usually living deep in the woods.
它们无法真正说人类的语言，所以会吹口哨。
They can't really speak human languages, so they whistle.
它们会发出低吼。
They grunt.
它们会使用手势。
They have gestures.
它们会用树木敲击物体，比如敲树声。
They smack things with trees like tree knocks.
我喜欢原住民的一点是，他们带来了不同的视角。
The thing I like about the Native Americans is they bring a different perspective.
他们不仅相信这些生物确实存在，而且有众多部落都有关于这些生物与人类互动的历史，而且他们还率先提出，这些生物可能拥有某种超自然力量。
Not only do they believe these things exist and there's just so many tribes who have the the history of these things interacting with their people, but they're the kind of the openers to say that they believe there there might be some supernatural powers.
对。
Right.
这打开了一个潘多拉的盒子，因为有一半的社区都相信了。
That opens up a can of worms that the half of the community ate it.
他们不愿意相信这些生物只是普通的血肉之躯。
They do not wanna believe that they are not just a flesh and blood creature.
但美洲原住民说，它们确实是血肉之躯。
But the Native Americans say they're flesh and blood.
皮肤行走者或变形者，是他们为这个故事带来的超自然元素。
Skinwalkers or or shape shifters, it's the supernatural element that they bring to the story.
并不总是如此，但这会让你想，好吧。
Not always, but that makes you go, okay.
这是否回到了第一点，《圣经》？
Does this does this go back to number one, the Bible?
我们是在谈论某种超自然生物吗？
Are we talking about some supernatural creatures here?
我的意思是，到底是什么样的存在？
Like, what do we you know what I mean?
我对这个并不那么固执己见。
I'm not so close minded to that.
对。
Right.
而且，这些是拥有数百年历史的岩画。
And, I mean, they're they're century old pictographs.
它们是由约克特人绘制的。
They're drawn by the Yokuts.
他们称之为Mayak Datat。
They called it Mayak Datat.
几百年前，他们在洞穴里画了一家人形巨兽，身上长着浓密的长毛。
They drew in a cave hundreds of years ago a family of giant creatures with long shaggy hair.
有太多不同的名字了。
There's a ton of names.
就像你所说的，'大脚怪'这个词源自一种很难发音的语言——Haukomelem，这种语言由西北地区一直到不列颠哥伦比亚省的多个原住民族群使用，他们各自都有关于这种生活在森林里的大型类人猿状怪物的民间传说。
Mean, of the sasquatch, like you said, comes from a language which is gonna be hard to pronounce but Haukomelem, which is spoken by a number of first nation peoples that are from the Northwest all the way to British Columbia and they all have their own folklore about, this large humanoid ape like ogre creature that lives in the woods.
事实上，许多美洲原住民的民间传说都讲述了部落与大脚怪的互动。
In fact, there there's a lot of Native American folklore talks about the interactions the tribe had with a Sasquatch.
直到今天，有些人仍相信它与他们同行。
Some today still believe that he walks walks with him.
每当他们进行部落仪式时发生怪事，他们就说那是大脚怪干的。
When something weird happens when they're doing some of their tribal stuff, they say it was it was Sasquatch.
是的。
Yeah.
但不仅仅是他们这样。
But it wasn't just them though.
我的意思是，我知道美洲原住民与这种生物有着悠久而辉煌的共生历史，而且这已经涉及超自然领域。
I mean, I know that Native American have a there's a long illustrious history of of symbiotic relationship with this creature slash being, and it does cross in the supernatural.
嗯，你知道，很多这些巨大的印第安墓冢，是的。
Well, you know, the a lot of these giant Indian burial mounds Yeah.
据说他们曾追捕并杀死这些生物，把它们埋在这些墓冢里，但如今这些墓冢受到保护，不能挖掘了。
They say that they hunted them down, killed them, buried them in these burial mounds, but they're protected, so you can't dig them up now.
但不仅仅是大脚怪。
But not only Bigfoot.
你知道，历史上有很多关于印第安人猎杀巨人的记载。
You know, there's this this historical accounts of Indians killing giants.
模糊生物由进步保险提供。
Blurry creatures is brought to you by progressive insurance.
财政负责的金融天才、货币魔术师——人们这样形容那些转投进步保险并节省数百美元的司机。
Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians, these are the things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds.
因为进步保险为一次性付款、拥有房产等提供折扣，而且在你需要时，可以依靠他们出色的服务。
Because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home, and more, plus you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it.
所以你的每一分钱都花得更值。
So your dollar goes a long way.
访问 progressive.com 了解是否
Visit progressive.com to see if
你能为汽车保险省钱。
you could save on car insurance.
Progressive意外保险公司及其附属公司。
Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates.
潜在节省金额会有所不同。
Potential savings will vary.
并非在所有州或情况下都适用。
Not available in all states or situations.
有一些坟冢，俄亥俄州有一个看起来像蛇的坟冢。
There's these burial mounds, and there's one in Ohio that looks like a snake.
只有从空中俯瞰才能看到它。
You can only see it from above in the air.
它是一条巨大的蛇形土丘。
It's a giant snake, and it's this mound.
据说那就是
And they say that's
我见过那个。
I've seen that.
你见过那个吗？
You seen that one?
是的。
Yeah.
那个土堆。
They mound.
是的。
Yeah.
它被埋着。
It's buried.
整个里面都有骨头。
There's bones in that whole thing.
所以这太疯狂了。
So It's crazy.
我不喜欢的是，很多人直接把美洲原住民的故事当成是他们在吸佩奥特碱、在树林里胡闹。
What I don't like is a lot of people just write off Native American stories as, oh, they're just smoking peyote, they're out in the woods.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
比如，西方科学。
Like, Western science.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
这让人很沮丧。
It's frustrating.
就是说，哦，我们现在知道得更清楚了。
It's just, oh, well, we know better now.
是的。
Yeah.
我不喜欢这种态度。
And, I don't like that attitude.
这非常非常轻视人。
It's very, very dismissive.
第一，我甚至不认为这是美洲原住民。
One, I don't even think it's Native Americans.
十九世纪和二十世纪初有很多轶事故事，可以在报纸上找到，关于矿工、捕猎者、淘金者和林区居民声称遇到或见过所谓的野人、熊人、猴人之类的生物。
There's there's plenty of anecdotal stories from the nineteenth and early twentieth century that you found in newspapers about miners and trappers, a gold prospector and woodsman claiming to have had run ins or seen, like, wild men, bear men, monkey men, caught whatever it was.
这些都是第一手的证词。
These were all firsthand accounts.
你讲的正是我的第五个支柱，宝贝。
You're talking my you're talking my fifth pillar, baby.
我把美洲原住民的故事单独分出来，是因为它们带点超自然色彩。
I was separating the Native American stories just because it's a little bit more supernatural.
对吧？
Right?
没错。
Right.
通常来说，探险者并不处于超自然的思维状态。
Usually, the explorers aren't in the supernatural mind frame.
所以我把它放一边了。
So I set that aside.
但对我来说，第五个支柱是早期的探险者。
But for me, the fifth pillar is early explorers.
对吧？
Right?
那些矿工，那些刘易斯和克拉克式的人物，你知道的，我们这个时代的大哥伦布们，就是这类人。
Those miners, those Lewis and Clark types, you know, the Columbuses of our day, those types of people.
有趣的是，大脚怪爱好者会说，哦，是的，利夫·埃里克森见过大脚怪。
And it's funny because the Bigfoot community will say, oh, yeah, Leaf Erickson saw the Bigfoot.
你知道，他们和维京人一起来到这里。
You know, they came over here with the Vikings.
但如果你深入查证，实际上他们描述的是像新斯科舍这样的原住民。
And if you look into it, actually, they were describing the native people of, like Like Nova Scotia.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
他们描述的并不是大脚怪。
And it wasn't they weren't describing Bigfoot.
这有点搞笑。
It was kinda funny.
但就是有些人会去寻找这种东西。
It was just like but some people look for that.
他们希望这是真的。
They want it to be true.
但这里有些奇怪的事情。
But here's some weird stuff.
让我提一下这个。
Let me throw this out there.
刘易斯和克拉克可以说是其中最著名的早期探险家之一。
Lewis and Clark, they're like one of the, you know, most famous early explorers.
当他们穿越山脉时，说那里居住着凶猛的巨人，更像熊而不是人，被称为赤脚人。
When they're passing over the mountains, they said they they were inhabited by fierce giants more akin to bears than people, known as people with no who wear no moccasins.
他们居住在这些岩石峭壁的洞穴中。
They dwelt in caves among these rocky crags.
他们以植物根茎和马肉为食。
They fed on roots in the flesh of horses.
我以前从未听说过这个。
I've never heard that before.
但他们可以劫掠经过他们领地的人。
But they could take and steal from those who passed through their territory.
还有前美国总统西奥多·罗斯福，以及一位荒野探险者，讲述过两名皮毛猎人在爱达荷州比特鲁特山脉遭遇一种叫‘山魔’的生物的致命遭遇，这又是它了。
And then you've got an ex president of The United States, Teddy Roosevelt and the Wilderness Explorer talking about a deadly encounter by two fur trappers with a mountain devil, there it is again, in the in the Bitterroot Range Of Idaho.
有记录显示，罗斯福曾多次带着儿子们去寻找大脚怪。
And Teddy was documented to go have gone on many Bigfoot hunts with his sons.
他是个狂热的猎人。
He was a big hunter.
他是一位大型猎物猎人。
He was a big game hunter.
所以你看，一位总统竟然出去谈论这些东西。
And so here you have a president going out talking about this stuff.
这已经超乎寻常了。
That's that's that's next level.
你得想想，如果他真的组织过针对这种生物的有记录的狩猎，那绝不像你和我说的那样：‘嘿，内特，这个周末咱们去猎独角兽吧。’
And you gotta think if he goes on documented hunts for this thing, it's not like he it's not like you and I saying, hey, Nate, let's, this weekend you go, I wanna go to a unicorn hunt.
咱们去森林里到处转转。
Let's go run around the forest.
我的意思是，他一定得相信，也一定得有某些可信的目击者或他亲眼所见的证据，才会真的带着儿子们组织一次狩猎去寻找它。
Mean, had to be some I mean, he had to believe and there had be some credibility to the witnesses or to move to things he'd seen with his own eyes to to actually organize a hunt with his sons to go to go look for it.
如果你说的是传统狩猎，那可不是和你孩子一起玩的消遣活动。
And if you're talking about traditional hunting, we're not talking about something fun you do with your with your little kids.
咱们去院子里找四叶草吧。
Let's go look for four of clovers in the yard.
这实际上是大型狩猎。
This is actually big game hunting.
这可不是简单地出去看看会发生什么。
It's not just like, oh, we're gonna go out and see what happens.
你需要准备、规划、执行，并尽力融入环境，让事情发生。
You prepare, you plan, you execute, you do your best to blend in and make it happen.
问题是这样。
Well, here's the thing.
你听说过亚伯拉罕·林肯关于巨人的那句名言吗？
Have you ever heard of the Abraham Lincoln quote about the Giants?
没有。
No.
我特意为你保存了这一点。
I saved this little bit bit here for you.
据说亚伯拉罕·林肯在1848年说过这句话。
So supposedly, Abraham Lincoln says this in 1848.
关于他是否真的说过这句话还存在争议，但我可以试着把相关内容放到节目笔记里。
And it's debated if he says this or not, but there is some, I I I can try to put in the show notes.
我可以试着附上这个引文的链接。
I can maybe link to this quote.
据说，这句话是：‘那些灭绝的巨人的骨骼遍布美洲的土丘，它们的眼睛曾凝视着尼亚加拉瀑布，就像我们现在一样。’
It says, the eyes of the species of extinct giants whose bones fill the mounds of America have gazed on Niagara as ours do now.
亚伯拉罕·林肯，1848年。
Abraham Lincoln, 1848.
我不知道该作何想法。
Don't know what I don't know what to think.
但事实上，原住民和早期探险者——我的意思是，你去谷歌一下《纽约时报》和‘巨人’，会跳出几十篇来自十九世纪末到二十世纪初的文章。
But but the fact that the native Americans and early explorers I mean, dude, you can Google New York Times and giants, and there's dozens of articles that will come up from, like, nineteen hundreds.
直到五十年代，他们还在报道发现这些巨型骨骼和骨头的事。
And until the fifties, they were reporting that they would find these giant skeletons, these these bones.
但后来，随着外星人事件的传闻、深层政府进驻美国、51区的兴起，这类文章就突然从报纸上消失了。
And then it became kind of a conspiratorial thing, like, after the whole alien stuff supposedly happened and the deep state moved into America and the Area 51, that all of a sudden, all these these kinds of articles didn't hit the newspaper anymore.
这更像是一种阴谋论思维，但你会想，是啊。
And that's more conspiratorial thinking, but you think, oh, yeah.
在北美地区没有关于巨人的有记录的目击报告。
There's no documented sightings of giants in North America.
错了。
Wrong.
甚至《纽约时报》仍存有人们挖掘这些骨骼的原始报道。
Even the New York Times still has archived literal stories of people excavating these bones.
而且
And
它们在哪？
Where are they?
这正是那个价值百万美元的问题，我的寻宝朋友。
That's that's that's the million dollar question, my treasure hunter friend.
就是说，它们在哪？
Like, where are they?
有人说，穿黑衣的人会出现并偷走这些骨头然后离开。
Some say that the men in black show up and steal them and go.
史密森尼学会、天主教会，我甚至读到过它们也拿走了这些骨头。
The the Smithsonian, the Catholic church I've even read has taken these bones.
就像，你也不清楚。
Like, you don't know.
我们找尼古拉斯·凯奇一起去找到它们吧。
Let's get Nicholas Cage, and let's go find them.
我得告诉你，老兄，几乎和大脚怪一样，甚至可能更甚，巨人的概念对我来说简直太吸引人了。
I gotta tell you man, like almost as much or maybe even more than Bigfoot, I think that the idea of giants is compel is just compelling to me.
事实上，这有大量经文依据，而且就像你提到的，这些文章一直持续到五十年代，巧合的是，我们知道，就在二战结束后，中央情报局深度参与了我们现在所称的媒体宣传机器的建立。
The fact that there's all the scriptural basis for that and just like you talk about these these articles up until the fifties when coincidentally or not, we know that right after the right after the second world war, the CA was very involved in creating the propaganda machine that we call the media at this point.
而正是在那时，他们创造了‘阴谋论’这个词，用来贬低与宣传相悖的信息。
And that's actually where they coined the term conspiracy theory in order to discredit information that went counter to the propaganda.
真是我的知音。
A man after my own heart.
对。
Right.
所以这就是我想说的，我觉得这非常有趣，我迫不及待想看看我们如何将它与大脚怪联系起来，我认为这之间很可能很容易建立联系，但我真的很想把这些都逐一剖析，我觉得在你的经历中，作为普通人，你作为普通人，并不是专家，这里有大量内容。
And so this is what I'm saying, like I I think that there's oh gosh, it's interesting to me, and I can't wait to see how we tie this into Bigfoot and I think there's probably an easy leap there but I'm I'm really interested to break these all down and I I think there's there's so much content here in your experience, you know, as us as lay people and you as a lay person, you're not an expert.
我绝不是这方面的专家，但我非常感兴趣。
I'm by no means an expert in any of this, but I'd I'm interest I'm very I'm very much interested.
在理解这些事情方面，我是一个非常执着的探索者，而且
I'm very much a seeker, when it comes to understanding these things and
大脚怪是入门的敲门砖。
Well, Bigfoot is the gateway drug.
对吧？
Right?
对。
Right.
我想用这些话表达的就是这个。
I think that's what I wanna say with all that.
比如，你对大脚怪感兴趣了，就会去了解其他生物，然后最终你会想了解它们的历史。
Like, you get into Bigfoot, you go into other creatures, and then eventually you're like, okay, wanna know the history.
对。
Right.
我认为，以此为基础，还应该看看实证证据，说白了，没多久以前，人们还不相信有大熊猫、科莫多龙或大王乌贼呢。
And I would say that like to to take that as a basis then also then also look at empirical evidence and say, listen, like it wasn't too long ago people didn't believe in giant pandas or Komodo dragons or giant squid.
我们对海洋底部的了解，还不如对月球表面的了解多，对吧？
We know less about the bottom of the ocean than we do about the surface of the moon, right?
从非常科学的角度来看，至今仍不断有新的哺乳动物被发现。
And and like from a very scientific standpoint when it comes to this, there are still creatures, mammals that are being discovered.
我觉得每年大约有八到九种哺乳动物被发现。
I think it's like eight or nine a year, Just mammals.
我们之前不知道、没记录过、没拍过照片、达尔文在旅途中也没发现过的生物，我们还没有……
We didn't know about, that we didn't document, that we didn't have pictures of, that Darwin didn't find on his journey, that that we don't have
但当地人早就见过它了。
But locals saw him forever.
对吧？
Right?
百分之百。
A 100%.
对吧？
Right?
那些都是传说。
Those those were myths.
我的意思是，大猩猩曾经一直是传说，你知道的。
I mean, gorillas were myths forever, you know.
但最终他们发现这是真的。
Then finally they go and they find out it's real.
有一种非常巨大的黑色猿类，生活在小群体中，你知道的，它们生活在云雾之中。
There's these crazy huge black apes that live in little colonies and you know, they live in the mist.
你看过那部电影吗？
Have you seen the movie?
格里尔斯在迷雾中。
Grylls in the mist.
不错嘛。
Good one.
这让我想起大学时，有个周五晚上我穿着大猩猩服装，出去吓唬那些喝醉的人，穿着我的大猩猩服装。
It just just reminds me in college when I had a gorilla suit on Friday night, we would go out and we would scare the tar out of people who were drunk in my in my gorilla suit.
我们在大学时就干这个，
That's what we did in,
我知道，我能想象。
I know can imagine.
在大学，圣路易斯-奥比斯波。
In college, San Luis Obispo.
但对我来说，我想明确提出一点：在信仰这个问题上，存在着巨大的分歧，你一旦跨入那扇门，
But but for me, I I think I really wanna leave this out there that, like, there is a big schism of, like, you go into the door of belief.
你就走进了大脚怪的世界。
You walk into the house of Bigfoot.
对吧？
Right?
仅仅迈入门槛，就需要付出大量努力。
Just to get in the door, it takes a lot of work.
很多人就放弃了。
A lot of people just get out.
他们开车经过那栋房子。
They drive by the house.
他们心想：我才不进那种地方。
They're like, I ain't gonna go in that place.
那地方太疯了。
That place is nuts.
那房子里的人都是疯子。
People in that house are crazy.
但也有些人进去了，而房子里面有一个房间写着：大脚怪不是超自然的。
And then there's people who get in there, and then there's one room inside this house that says, Bigfoot is not supernatural.
它是一个实实在在的血肉之躯的动物。
It is a full flesh and blood animal.
然后还有另一扇门上写着：不。
And then there's another door that says, no.
大脚怪是超自然的。
Bigfoot is supernatural.
它能消失。
It can disappear.
它能，呃，它身上有各种各样的超自然现象。
It can it it had there's there's all kinds of supernatural events with it.
中间还有一个奇怪的小房间。
And there's a weird little room in the middle.
我昨晚看了一个视频，有人说它两者兼有，但也跟量子物理有关。
I was watching last night where people go that, well, it's kind of both, and but it also has to do with quantum physics.
你知道的，你会想：我到底想加入哪个疯狂的部落？
And, you know, you're like, which crazy crazy tribe do I wanna join?
所以，我想你现在和我都在要求人们：停车，下车，看看那栋房子，先别妄下判断。
And so I guess you and I are asking people right now, okay, stop the car, get out, look at the house, Don't think anything yet.
别一上来就把它当成疯子的胡言乱语。
Don't write it off as that shit crazy.
就只是看看它。
Just look at it.
要有勇气，去把门打开，亲自去看看。
Have, I don't know, have the guts just to open the door and see.
没错。
Right.
来尝尝这顿自助餐吧，各位。
Sample the buffet, people.
是的。
Yeah.
所以，我认为奈特和我现在所做的，就是只是邀请你们来尝尝这顿自助餐。
And and so I think what Nate and I are doing right now is we're just asking you to sample the buffet.
我要尝一尝这顿自助餐，内特。
I'm gonna sample the buffet, Nate.
尝一小口。
Take a little taste.
是的。
Yeah.
我感兴趣。
I'm interested.
我觉得这件事有太多地方都指向了可信性。
There's so many things about this I think that lead to credibility.
我相信，但说实话，我现在只有芥菜籽那么点信心。
I believe but it's, you know, I got the mustard seed faith right now.
我现在处于一种状态，觉得有很多线索都表明这可能是真的。
I'm in a space where I do think that there's a lot of things that line up to this could be could be real.
现在，我真的想和何塞·亨塞科一起去寻找大脚怪吗？
Now do I wanna go on a Sasquatch hunt with Jose Jose Genseiko?
当然。
Absolutely.
我愿意花两万美元去做这件事吗？
Do I wanna spend $20,000 to do that?
绝对不愿意。
Absolutely not.
所以，我想我们讨论的是信念之屋，而人们只是开车经过它。
So I guess if what we're talking about is the house of belief here and people just drive by it.
但对我来说，我希望你停下来，打开门，在院子里坐一会儿，好好想想这件事。
But for me, I want you to stop, open the door, sit there in the yard for a second, and think about this.
你的思维要接受某种新事物进入考量空间，需要哪些前提条件？
What requirements are necessary for your mind to entertain the possibility of allowing something new to enter into that space of consideration?
仅仅是考量。
Just consideration.
对吧？
Right?
你有没有想过，自己是个思想开放的人？
Do you think of yourself as, Hey, I'm an open minded person.
对吧？
Right?
但如果你直接关上门继续开车，你真的算思想开放吗？
Well, if you just slam the door and keep driving, you really open minded?
我不知道。
I don't know.
我并不是想让你加入什么邪教。
And I'm not trying to get you to join a cult here.
我只是在想，思想开放嘛。
I'm just thinking, Hey, open minded.
然后你站在草坪上，看着，心想，哦，对，我是思想开放的。
And then you're on the lawn, you're looking, you think, oh, yeah, I'm open minded.
你需要什么样的进一步证据才能相信呢？
What further evidence is needed for you to believe?
哦，我已经超越那个阶段了。
Oh, I'm I'm past the point.
我想进去。
I wanna go in.
我想看看这栋房子里有什么。
I wanna see what's inside this house.
我知道每个人都不一样。
And I I don't everyone's different.
你需要原始的科学数据吗？
Do you need raw scientific data?
或者，你是否可能因为别人给你讲了一个故事而相信某件事？
Or could you possibly believe in something because someone told you a story?
比如卢克读了这本书，《漫长的步行》。
Like Luke read this book, The Long Walk.
这人讲述了一个他亲眼目睹家人经历的故事，让人感叹，天哪。
This guy's telling a story of seeing his family himself to go, oh, man.
这个人看到了一些东西。
This guy saw something.
他相信这个人说的是实话。
He believes this guy's telling the truth.
对许多外界的人来说，他们的信念源于这样一个事实：他们不认为有成百上千的人会联合起来编造一个巨大的骗局。
And for many people out there, their belief comes from the fact that they don't they don't don't think that hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people are lying together in a giant hoax.
所以我想说，你现在听这个节目，需要什么才能相信呢？
So I would say, what does it take for you listening right now to this show to believe?
不是学者。
Not scholars.
我现在就是在跟你说话。
I'm talking to you right now.
无论是开车途中，还是坐在家里，不管你正在做什么。
Just driving your car or sitting in your house, whatever you're doing.
修剪你的草坪。
Mowing your lawn.
听播客时我就这么做。
That's what I do when listen to podcasts.
是的。
Yeah.
一边割草，或者只是洗碗。
Mowing your lawn or just doing the dishes.
对吧？
Right?
洗碗。
Doing the dishes.
你需要什么样的依据才能相信呢？
What do you need to have places for you can believe?
对吧？
Right?
在这档播客里，我想我们会深入探索这个神秘动物学的世界。
On this podcast, I think we're gonna dive into that world as cryptozoology.
对，
Right,
卢克？
Luke?
我们是。
We are.
进入未知的世界，那些生活在现实边缘、我们感知边缘和科学边缘的生物。
Into the into the world of the unknown and the things that that live on the fringes of reality, the fringes of our perception, and the fringes of science practically.
神秘动物学是研究那些有目击记录但科学界认为缺乏足够实证证据来确认其为有效物种的动物。
And cryptozoology is a study of animals which, they're sort of documented sightings, but science would say there's not enough empirical evidence to qualify it as a viable species.
但如果存在目击记录，我觉得我们可能会深入
But if there's a if there's documented sightings, I think we're gonna hop
进去。
in.
如果让那些狂热者上节目，我也不介意。
I don't mind if we get the crazies on here.
我觉得这听起来很棒。
I'd I'd that sounds great.
我的意思是，我想不出还有什么比这更有趣的播客了。
I mean, I can't think of more entertaining podcasts than respectfully.
嗯，我的意思是，也许更像是那些疯狂的故事。
Well, I mean, maybe more like the crazy stories.
比如，有人声称在树林里看到了独眼巨人，但其实并没有关于独眼巨人的任何记录。
Like, someone saw this they think they saw a cyclops in the woods, and, there's no documented sightings of a cyclops.
对吧？
Right?
大概不会请这种人来节目。
Probably not gonna bring that guy on the show.
是的。
Yeah.
大概吧。
Probably.
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